November 3, 2023 • 58 mins
Have you ever wondered about the intersection of comedy and suicide prevention? Well, this episode has been crafted just for you. We've got an extraordinary guest, Frank King, an inspiring comedian and certified QPR (Question, Persuade, Refer) trainer. He's got a riveting tale to tell, one about his own battle with depression and suicide ideation. His journey, coupled with the haunting echoes of his family's history, has led him to dedicate his life to suicide prevention. Be prepared to be enlightened as Frank helps us recognize the signs of depression and suicidal thoughts and how to intervene effectively and respectfully.
But there's more. We also break down some commonly held beliefs about suicide. Frank spills the beans about his experiences, coping mechanisms, and how he manages his suicidal thoughts. He gives us a clear-eyed view of how individuals in crisis often perceive themselves as burdens and how we can reach out to them the right way. We take a detour into the world of youth mental health, exploring how routines, appropriate encouragement, and tailored teaching methods can significantly influence a child's mental wellbeing.
This episode isn't just another conversation. It's a call to action, especially for parents, emphasizing their critical role in their children's mental health. We delve into the importance of establishing routines, advocating for the use of resources like the Suicide Prevention Lifeline, and the role of platforms like Zoom in maintaining connectedness during tough times. We also reflect on the impact of crises on different generations and the urgent need for meaningful conversations around suicide prevention. Take a leap into this enlightening conversation that could be the lifeline someone is desperately seeking.
Please visit us at: http://retreattopeace.com to find out more about the shows you love to listen to, the upcoming retreats we have planned and your favorite merchandise to help support those in need. Also, send us your testimonial of how the show or Catherine has helped you. We would love to share your story on the air.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Hey you, wherever you are in the world right now.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me.
We know that we're living insome crazy times and we know
that the world is changing.
So let's create a bridge as wetravel through one another's
countries, removing all thelabels and coming together as
one people, finding our home inone world, and that is why the
(00:56):
signature conversation today isso important.
Start the conversation, aconversation around suicide
Today.
I welcome my guest speaker,Frank King.
Hi, Frank.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Hey, hey, everybody around the world.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Thank you so much for being with us today.
I know we have a really heavytopic to talk about, but I know
that you also have this reallyunique way of having this
conversation.
So, with so much gratitude,thank you for being with the
show today and for our audience.
And I'm just filled withgratitude because I know this is
(01:33):
such a necessary conversationfor the world.
To hear and going into thisspace is not always easy, or you
know, to hear but also todigest.
So I just really appreciate youspending this time with us today
.
So if you can, Frank, justshare with the audience a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, I am a comedian .
Occasionally somebody will sayto me tell me about yourself, I
go.
Well, I'm a comedian and theygo no no, not what you do, who
you are.
Well, at the risk of beingredundant, I'm a comedian.
My mom was funny, my sister'sfunny.
My dad was funny, it's just,it's in my DNA.
Tell my first joke in fourthgrade, everybody laughed.
(02:16):
The teacher was hysterical.
I thought you know what?
I'm going to be a comedian.
In 12th grade they had a talentshow.
Nobody ever done stand up.
I did, I won and I was going tobe a comedian.
I told my mother, who was biginto education she goes, son,
you go into college first, Idon't care what you do.
When you get done, you could bea goat herder for all.
(02:37):
I care, but you are going to bea goat herder with a college
degree.
So I went to the University ofNorth Carolina at Chapel Hill,
got two degrees actually, andthen moved to San Diego with my
high school sweetheart and wegot married and I did what she
wanted me to do.
I sold insurance, worked for afirm that her father worked for
a different branch but same firmand just by chance there was a
(03:01):
branch of the world famouscomedy store in San Diego, in La
Jolla, actually California.
And I went twice to open my tosee what the competition was
like.
And third time I got up and I,middle of my five minutes set, I
thought I am home, I'm going todo this for a living, I have no
idea how.
And the day after Christmas 1985, went on the road I had 10
(03:21):
weeks booked, asked mygirlfriend if she wanted to come
along just for the ride,figuring she'd say no.
She said yes.
So we gave up our apartment andour jobs and we were on the
road together doing standup andcomedy clubs for 2,629 nights in
a row, nonstop.
Seven years opened up for RosieO'Donnell, ellen DeGeneres,
(03:42):
dennis Miller, jeff Fox wherethey were on white Adam Sandler,
kevin James back when they werejust comics Seinfeld.
And, by the way, the woman thatI married is still my wife of
33 years, which is rare forcomedians.
There's like three comicmarriages because comedians
aren't easy to live with.
She would say it's your lifeevery day, but it's not always a
(04:04):
day at the beach, anyway.
So I did comedy in the clubsfor about 10 years.
I did some radio and then Imade the jump to the corporate
comedy circuit after dinner,after lunch, you know the rubber
chicken circuit.
And then that crashed and burnedin the recession and we lost
everything in a Chapter 7bankruptcy and I came very, very
close to ending my life.
(04:25):
I did not spoil the alert in mylife, but I'd always wanted to
not just be a funny speaker, buta speaker who was funny, cover
something, a topic, a serioustopic, teach people something.
But I could never quite figureout what in the world I had to
teach anybody.
And then, after I came thatclose, began looking at my
family history of generationaldepression and suicide
(04:47):
Grandmother died by suicide andmother, founder, great aunt died
by suicide and my mother and Ifound her, I was four years old
screamed for days.
I thought, you know I couldtalk about suicide prevention.
So I took a class it's calledQPR question persuade refer QPR
Institutecom 12 hour course andthey teach you essentially the
(05:09):
signs and symptoms of depression, other mental illnesses and
thoughts of suicide, what to do,what not to do, what say, what
not to say.
Because they believe, I believeit is the most preventable
cause of death on the planet Ifyou know what to look and listen
for and if you're willing tostep out of your comfort zone,
into the breach and start theconversation, because I believe
(05:32):
in.
When it comes to mental illness,silence often kills.
You hear people say never.
He never gave any indication,we had no idea, we had no clue.
How come we didn't?
Well, you know, you probablyare.
Probably eight out of 10 peoplewho are suicidal are ambivalent
, which tells me they wantsomebody to intervene.
And nine out of 10 in the lastseven days leading up to an
(05:53):
attempt to give hints verbal,nonverbal, direct, indirect,
behavioral so that tells me thatnine out of 10 people want
somebody to step up andintervene.
And so that's what I teach ishow to have that difficult
conversation, what to look for,and then what to say and do, and
then, and more importantly,what not to say, what not to do,
because people care.
(06:14):
They just, you know, eitherthey are afraid they're going to
say the wrong thing or theydon't know what to say.
So that's where I come in, andwhat I've discovered is, even
though most people don't talkabout depression and suicide, as
my mother would say, in politecompany, if you bring it up, you
know you bring it up.
Almost everybody has a storyabout themselves, a loved one, a
(06:37):
friend.
That's what I discovered earlyon is that you know my job is to
go in and be vulnerable, tellmy story, because men don't
often share things that areemotional, and so see a man on
stage telling a story aboutsomething that serious and I get
a little choked up every time Itell the story, being that
(07:00):
vulnerable.
I read Bernay Brown's book onvulnerability about halfway
through I thought, oh mygoodness, that's my superpower.
And she also says in there I'vesaid this myself, but not as
elegantly as she says thatbecause of my mental illness,
major depressive disorder andchronic suicidal ideation, I am
(07:21):
so comfortable in my darknessthat I can sit comfortably with
you and yours, and that'svaluable to people with mental
illness.
People often say to me myfriends, depressed, what do I
say?
Don't say anything, justactively listen, you know, sort
of cosign, whatever they'regoing through.
So anyway, in 2014, I did myfirst TED Talk because everybody
(07:44):
followed me as a funny guy.
So how do you convince themthat you could do something
serious?
My wife said, famously, do aTEDx talk.
And I said, famously, what's aTEDx talk?
Just by chance, I got an emailthat week from a TEDx talk in
Vancouver, british Columbia, andthey said would you want to
apply to do a TED?
I wrote back I would.
So I filled out the applicationand I got it and I came out on
(08:07):
stage at age 56 as depressed andsuicidal.
And nobody knew my wife, myfamily, my friends, because
people with mental illness oftencover it very well.
Don't want to burden otherpeople with that kind of thing.
But I came out on stage andthen since then I've done four
more TEDx talks, each one on amental health topic, a different
(08:28):
mental health topic, and now Icoach TEDx.
After doing five of them, peoplekept coming to me hey, man,
help me get a TEDx.
My business coach goes Frank, Iknow you're doing those for
free, that's going to stop.
So I give the first half anhour for free now, or a little
(08:49):
more.
You know, more or less my momwas big into give value first,
without expectation of return.
You know that kind of thatzig-ziggler, helping up people
get what they want.
Maybe in the long run you'llget what you want, sort of thing
.
So anyway, that's my story andI've been doing since that first
TEDx and I've been speaking onsuicide prevention, corporation
(09:09):
associations, colleges.
I'm going to just kind ofinquire from Portland, oregon
today.
It's a youth mental healthgroup and they want to have a
Zoom comedy night.
And so you know who better thanthe mental health comedian,
somebody who speaks theirlanguage, to organize the Zoom?
comedy night for the youngpeople.
So anything we can do to bringthe rate down.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, that's amazing and I know, as we're sitting
here today having thisconversation, that suicide
around the globe is at a rate of30% or there about, which is
really a alarming rate in myopinion.
I know earlier this year it wasdown in the 20s.
(09:53):
So to ratchet up thatsignificantly, it's pretty
significant and I, as you werespeaking, I know you kind of ran
through this really fast.
I know you were four years oldand you know you had this
experience and you said that youhad screamed for days and I
can't even imagine you know whatthat was like for you and you
(10:18):
know I'm sorry you had to go,you know, through that
experience.
But you said something reallykey that you know people are
afraid to speak up and you knowtalk to other people about this
if there's some red flags orsomething that's happening.
And I know personally I've hadthis experience where I was
(10:38):
approached by knowledge ofsomeone who was in that space
and you know calling out forhelp and I know personally what
I did and you know part of it,as you said, was just listening.
But I think that connectednessis so important just to get you
(10:59):
know in front of them and helpthem in whatever capacity of the
space that they're sitting in.
But if you could for ouraudience, if our audience is
listening right now and there'ssomeone that they know that may
be in that space, what are sometools that you can offer to them
that would help them connectwith that person in their life?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, the what I teach in my keynotes and my
trainings, I've got a three hourup to a three hour CE on
suicide prevention.
As a matter of fact, the stateof Washington has mandated that
all healthcare providerschiropractors, nurses, doctors,
social workers, all have to havethree hours of suicide
prevention CE or they cannotrenew their license, which I
(11:44):
think is brilliant.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Dennis, hygienists, same thing.
What I teach is signs andsymptoms of depression or other
mental illness and thoughts ofsuicide.
Because, again, if eight out of10 are ambivalent, nine out of
10 give hints.
That tells me, if we just knowwhat to look for, listen for and
are willing to step up, that wecan prevent.
(12:06):
We can prevent a suicide andyou don't.
You don't have to be aclinician to prevent a suicide.
Anybody who takes an interest,and this is not therapy, it's
just planting seeds of hope iswhat we're after.
So I tell people well, thesigns of depression just a
couple of them are withdrawingfrom social activities, although
we don't have many socialactivities right now, but when
(12:27):
we do that kind of thing, peoplewithdraw, they distance
themselves or they physicallydistance themselves by moving.
They oftentimes have troublegetting up in the morning but
rally in the afternoon, which isdeceiving, you know it's either
you're worried about them inthe morning and then the
afternoon they seem, you know,on top of the world.
The here's one you can spot onZoom.
(12:50):
They're Zoom casual, as I'mwearing today my button down
casual shirt, no tie, no jacket.
But then there's, there's umdepressed casual, which means
oftentimes people who havedepression let their personal
hygiene go.
You know, if you look at themon Zoom, you notice their hair
is a little dirty and theirclothes aren't as clean as
usually.
Maybe because they're havingdifficulty getting out of bed to
(13:12):
hit the shower and then run alittle wash.
So that is, that is a.
That is a big sign and one youcan actually spot over Zoom.
Um, what I talk about in mykeynote is what not to say,
cause people say what do I sayat that point?
Well, here's what you don't sayPull yourself up by a bootstrap
, turn that frown upside down.
Have you tried fish oil?
Here's what you do say, if theyin fact admit they are.
(13:37):
You know, suffering with livingwith depression.
Okay, I'm here for you and Imean it.
I know you're not crazy, lazyor self-absorbed.
I know that depression is amental illness.
The good news is, with time andtreatment, things will get
better.
I will take the time, I'll helpyou get the treatment, and you
got to mean that.
And then here's the biggie youhave to ask them flat out are
(13:58):
you having thoughts of suicide?
And if you can't ask thatquestion, I would recommend you
find somebody who can.
It's a difficult question toask Now.
There's an old urban legendthat you should never mention
the S word suicide in front ofsomebody who's depressed, and I,
as a comedian, I love thereasoning it might give them the
idea suicide.
(14:20):
What a great idea.
Why didn't I think of that?
Trust me, it's crossed theirmind.
Now let's say they do not admitto having thoughts of suicide.
How would you know?
Well, there are signs Talkingabout death and dying, googling
death and dying.
Death and dying appears as atheme in their writing, their
(14:41):
artwork, their music, gettingtheir affairs in order, giving
away prized possessions becausethey want to make sure they go
to the people they're going togo to when they're gone and
giving away a pet is the top ofthe pyramid and giving away
prized possessions because theywant to make sure that the
animal is taken care of.
There's a counterintuitive onethat I think is very dangerous
(15:02):
is that they've been depressedfor a long time and now they're
happy, happy without anyparticular reason, and you're
happy because, dear goodness,they're finally happy.
Well, here's the problem.
They may be happy becausethey've chosen time, place and
method and they know the pain isfinite.
(15:23):
A lot of people, I think, areunaware that the majority of
suicides, the person doesn'tnecessarily want to kill
themselves, they simply want toend the pain.
I just wanted to end the painwhen I came so close, and so
here's another myth, I believe,if I can be a myth buster for a
minute, you hear people saysuicides occur, they act, you
(15:47):
know, taking your own life.
It takes a lot of nerve to takeyour own life.
And the second thing you hearis it's selfish.
Well, in the mind of the personwho is thinking of suicide
because they say well, weren'tthey thinking about the impact
on their friends and family?
As a matter of fact, they were,I was.
It's, it's, it's something insuicidality called
(16:08):
burdensomeness.
They honestly believe Ihonestly believe that that I was
a burden and that my wife wouldbe better off without me
because I had a million dollarlife insurance policy and if I
died she would get the milliondollars and she would be
restored financially.
The bankruptcy would be as ifit never happened.
(16:28):
She'd be brokenhearted, but shewouldn't be broke anymore.
So, irrational as it is thatthe person is a burden, and I'm
sure if you asked the peoplethat they were worried about
being a burden to, they would gono, no, no, no, no.
You're not a burden.
No, no, no.
But that's that's what's goingon in the mind of the person who
is kind of playing suicide.
They truly believe that theyare a burden.
(16:51):
Now, let's say they admit tohaving thoughts of suicide.
The question comes up what doyou do?
Well, here's what you say Doyou have a plan?
And if they have a plan, whatis your plan and if it's
detailed, you know time, place,method.
Your job is to get them on thephone with the suicide
prevention the lifeline, orthere's for younger people.
(17:13):
There's now a text line in theUnited States.
You text the word help orconnect to 741-741.
And there'd be somebody roughlyyour age as a young person on
the other end, because youngpeople seem to be more
forthcoming in text than theyare, like, as old people.
I'm 63 on the phone, so if theperson will pick up, will not
(17:35):
pick up the phone and youbelieve you're actively suicidal
, you pick up the phone, youcall the suicide prevention
lifeline and the volunteer willdo their best to get the phone
in the hand of the person who isin crisis.
Now the question comes up whendo you dial 911?
If they're an immediate threatto themselves or somebody else,
you have no choice but dial 911.
(17:56):
Now that's going to buy themgenerally a three day
involuntary detention order andthey're going to be in a mental
health facility, locked down forthree days with no belt or shoe
strings, but they'll be alive.
Now let's say they have a plan,but it's not particularly
detailed.
What do you do?
And this, by the way, is not inany psychology book.
Psychiatrist friend and I cameup with this.
(18:18):
He also lives with chronicsuicidal ideation.
I say to them well, are you,are you going to kill yourself,
just like that?
And if they say no, then I say,ok, tell me, why not?
Make them give voice to why.
(18:39):
You know it's my family, myfriends, my pets, whatever it is
, make them give voice.
And if you ask me oh, frank,you got to kill yourself.
You know you have chronicsuicidal ideation.
It's always on, you know it'salways there.
Here's the thing about chronicsuicidal ideation and they're
probably people listening to youand me right now who have this
(18:59):
and they may be unaware it has aname.
Every time I've spoken exceptonce somebody's come up
afterwards after I describechronic suicidal ideation and
said I didn't know it had a nameI thought I was some kind of
freak.
And all Chronic suicidalsuicidal ideation means that for
people like me, my tribe, theoption of suicide is always on
(19:22):
the menu as a solution forproblems, large and small.
It just bubbles up every timethere's a problem.
I give you an example, when Isay small.
Three years ago my car brokedown.
I had three thoughts unbiddenGet it fixed, buy a new one or I
could just kill myself.
That's chronic suicidalideation.
And a young woman come up to meafter a college show.
(19:44):
She said thank you for yourkeynote.
I said you're welcome.
She said but I got to tell youit made me weep.
I didn't make you weep, shesaid.
Well, you know your story aboutyour car.
You know get it fixed, buy anew one, just kill yourself.
She goes.
I've been having those thoughtsmy entire life.
I thought I was some kind offreak and all alone.
And I heard you say that outloud and for the first time in
(20:04):
my life I realized I was not infact alone and I wept.
Okay, here's the reason.
That is one of the reasons Idon't kill myself is that it's
sort of like being George Bailey.
It's a wonderful life.
I've been showing what people'slives would be like if I were
not there to speak and reassurethem that they are not alone.
(20:25):
So if I kill myself, I wouldtake all those people with me
who never had a chance to hearme speak and let them know
they're not, in fact, alone.
So that's one of the big reasonsI don't because I can't.
Friend of mine said you can'tlive with that, I go.
No, I can't die with that, Icannot.
I just um that a friend who wasin his dad was in AA, uh,
(20:47):
raging alcoholic for 40 years,got an AA 20 years sober, sober
of the day and he sponsoredumpteen people and somebody
asked him about 15 year mark,you're going to ever drink again
?
And he goes.
No, and they go.
How can you say that?
He said because of all thepeople I've sponsored and all
the people I'm going to sponsor,if I dive back into that bottle
(21:08):
, they'll dive back in with meand I can't live with that.
So that would be my wife.
He said you're going to killyourself.
No, why I think it's importantthat they give voice.
He makes them give voice outloud to why they're going to
stick around.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So I, yeah, and I appreciate that so much.
I mean, that was so powerpacked as far as what you
offered the audience, and it'sjust a testament of your purpose
in life and why you're here andwhat you're doing is.
You can hear the passion inyour voice.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
You can hear you can.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It just radiates through every you know the
airwaves.
I mean it's amazing.
And I, you know, I know formyself.
When I was in this situation,talking to someone about them
wanting to end their life, youknow they were just in so much
pain and right now the world isin a lot of pain.
(22:06):
People are just experiencingthis high level of pain.
I've recorded a few showsrecently where people have
talked about, you know, beingdiagnosed with a medical
condition and they feel likethat's the only way out.
Or the woman that I spoke tooverseas being in lockdown and
(22:27):
feeling like the only way theycan escape.
You know this present statethat we're in, where we can't do
things, that's the only way out.
There's just so many exampleswhere people are using that as
their way out, and as suiciderates are ratcheting up around
the world, I think it's reallyimportant that we're able to
(22:49):
kind of peel back the layers andsay there are other
opportunities for you besidestaking that avenue.
And, as you said, you know,just like asking the questions
and taking a deeper dive withthe person.
(23:10):
When you hear of young peopleright now and I know this week
actually and I'll share thisbecause I'm sure this has
happened to someone else as well.
I actually had a news feed comethrough that had shared that
11-year-old little girl had hungherself and it didn't
(23:35):
successfully work.
So she was brain dead but onlife support.
And now the parents are, youknow, now faced with this
decision to take her off of lifesupport.
This really grabbed me becauseI really aware that around the
world, young people are reallystruggling with understanding
(23:58):
how to process their thoughts,given that there's not a lot of
control of what's going on intheir life.
You know, they're schooling athome or maybe not able to go to
school full time because they'rehalfway in the door, halfway
out the door.
You know all of these thingswe're in person, we're not Right
, right, and then you know it'sinteresting, because their brain
(24:21):
development is in such a statethat they don't have the
cognitive ability to fullyunderstand things the way that
adults do.
And adults are struggling.
So they're not fully, you know,present as far as able to
communicate with childrenexactly what's going on in the
world.
And then, given the child's age, you know how much information
(24:43):
is too much and how much do yougo into the space with them.
So there's a lot of layers toall of this with children around
the world.
And I just wonder, you know,besides recognizing the signs of
depression in some of thesethings you speak to, I mean, are
there other opportunities forparents that they can, you know,
(25:07):
really help their childrennavigate these troubling times?
And how do you, I mean, do yourecommend anything Like?
Do you recommend parents maybehave their children journal to
try to, you know, detox the bodyor the brain from some of these
thoughts?
And you know, I mean, what aresome suggestions that you may
(25:29):
offer up to parents that canhelp them?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, I would start with, if the child seems to be
or you believe the child perhapsis depressed, I would set up a
telemedicine appointment and doyour best to have them evaluated
, because it's, you know,knowledge is power and it
defined to figure out.
Perhaps.
Is it?
Is it situational depression?
Is it like the depression Ilive with, organic?
(25:52):
Is it something in the DNA?
And then, if they are in fact,if it turns out, they are in
fact depressed.
I think, and I give this adviceto adults, I think everybody
needs self-care plan.
We talked about it off the air.
I have a TV, a TEDx, I have akeynote called social distancing
(26:15):
and staying sane.
Don't worry about your mentallyill friends, because those of
us are mentally ill and highfunctioning.
We almost all have a self-careplan and other techniques, and
mine is diet, exercise, goodnight sleep, meditation and, in
my case, a little medication.
And, and I also recommend, aroutine.
You know everybody's routinehas been just blown out of the
(26:37):
water.
You know the kids aren't goingto school or they had school at
the dining room table and theparents are home, not going to
work and there.
So what's lacking?
I believe they asked a guy whowas in the space station for a
year about social isolation.
You know how, would you how?
And he said one word routine.
(26:59):
He said we I go to bed sametime, I get up same time, eat my
meals same time.
So I think the family shouldget together.
I would even get a whiteboard.
You know, if you have lots offamily, like kids and parents
and maybe three generations, onehousehold and you know,
scheduled out, we all eat atthis time, we're gonna do.
We're all at dinner table, allthe devices are off.
You know, and you know this iswhen we exercise, when we binge
(27:22):
watch Netflix, this is when youknow Disney plus, so that you,
you have to control the thingsyou can control, which people
with mental illness learn veryquickly because we wake up in it
in a, in an uncertain world,whether there's a pandemic or
not.
And something I could share withparents who suspect perhaps
their child is living with amental illness, even if it's
(27:43):
just situational depression, isthat having a mental illness and
a lot of neuro, typical neuro,normal people don't don't quite
get.
This is like that Greekcharacter Sisyphus.
He gave fire to man and theother guys decided his
punishment would be he'd roll.
He'd have to roll a rock up ahill every day and and the the
deal was, if he could get itover the top of the hill then he
(28:05):
could retire, but every timeyou got a close to the top
they'd roll back out of thebottom.
Having a mental illness is likethat.
Every morning you wake up andthere's a rock in a hill.
Some days a rock is small andthe hill is not so steep.
Some days rock is a boulder andthe hill is kill them in jarra.
But every day there's a rockand a hill.
(28:26):
So you know, parents tend not towant anything to be wrong with
their children, tend to blamethemselves if something does go
wrong, like this young woman whotried to hang herself at age 11
.
I'm sure the parents there's alot of survivors guilt and
wondering what they've donewrong.
And you know he, perhaps theydid.
They were not aware that shewas living with them, even
(28:48):
situational depression and 11.
I have a friend who tried itfor 8 and 12 and it bipolar
disorder runs in this family andhe ended up that that was a
diagnosis.
But yeah, it's, and it seems tobe younger and younger people
are are.
You know?
I believe mental healtheducation should begin in middle
(29:10):
school, catch em early.
Because you catch somebodyearly with whatever the ailment
happens to be, the long termprognosis is far better if you
catch those things early and Ithink me personally I did a TEDx
on this called mental withbenefits, because everybody I've
(29:32):
ever met who wasn't completelydysfunctional, who had a middle
illness children, teenagers,adults always had some sort of
ability that their peers didn'thave.
I believe middle illness isactually combination of middle
able, this and middle illnessand middle ableness.
30 fortune 500 companies noware hiring people on the autism
(29:55):
spectrum for their special gift.
They have their own, thespectrum, but they do one thing
extremely well and 30, includingGoogle, is hiring people on the
spectrum because of this onething they do extremely well.
So I believe that with children,if they've got a mental illness
(30:15):
, do your best to figure outwhat the mental ableness is and
then wrap your arms around that,enhance it, energizes,
celebrate it, because I believethat would change the frame for
the child.
You know you.
Know you what I did?
The TEDx I said to the audienceI'm I.
I don't believe that I ambroken.
I believe I was made this wayand it's my job to take, you
(30:40):
know the, those blessings that Ihave, along with the curse of
middle illness, and and wrap myarms around that.
And and you know, let's say achild has OCD.
The stem, I think, the IEP, theindividual education, but it
should truly be individual kidsgot OCD, so I would the stem
(31:02):
program, science, technology,engineering, mathematics, every
one of those disciplines, everyproblem to solve in those
disciplines has one right answer, one.
And so why not put the youngperson in that stem program and
then steer them on a career pathto an industry where they they
value precision and attention todetail?
(31:22):
And so the young person, ifthey go in the, in the
architecture, engineering,banking, whatever, where they
really is to the penny or youknow it's very precise, then
they're rewarded handsomely forthis ability that you know their
peers, many of them, don't have.
Now, if it's dyslexia, stem isnot a good idea because it's
(31:44):
just letters and numbers rollingaround the page.
You know humanities, arts,multi, multi, multi dimensional,
complex tasks are fabulous at.
So you know that's where Iwould steer the child, into
those, into those curriculum.
And I think you should changethe, not only curriculum but the
teaching method.
I've got a friend who taughtmusic instruments and he said
(32:08):
Frank, you know some of the kidsthat I taught the ones that had
ADD, adhd were the bestmusicians.
The problem was, if you sitthem down on a chair and you ask
them to play scales for 50minutes, in the first 10 minutes
they get better.
The next 40 minutes most theirenergy is going just to keep
their behind in the chair.
So he goes on a whim.
(32:30):
I bought an egg timer and Isaid it for 10 minutes.
I said to the young person okay, let's play scales for 10
minutes, then we'll do somethingelse.
Egg timer goes off.
Okay, now let's practice ourbreathing for 10 minutes.
Practice a read.
Timer goes off.
Now let's practice those twopieces you can be playing at the
concert on Saturday.
Egg timer goes off, he goes.
The improvement was amazingbecause they're not having to
(32:51):
spend all that energy to sitstill, because they know 10
minutes on something else, 10minutes on something else, which
I thought was brilliant.
So I think that that is amessage.
We need to make the individualeducation plan truly.
I mean down to the point whereI don't think every six-year-old
belongs in first grade, youknow, in every seven-year-old in
(33:13):
second grade.
I think again, we should adjustto fit the child's abilities
yeah, and that probably is inthe distant future.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I'm not sure you know .
It's not very fast, but youknow this conversation around
our children.
I am also wondering too, youknow, is this something that we
teach the children how torecognize this within our, you
know, our social circles?
And the reason I bring this upis because I know for my own
(33:47):
children, when they were goingthrough middle school and even
high school, they knew ofsomeone who was in the bathroom
and they were cutting or theywere, you know, doing self-harm
to their bodies.
And it's such a difficult stageof life because, you know,
(34:08):
there's so much emphasis on thedifferences that are made to
feel like that they're bad orbecause of their differences, or
you know, those highlighteddifferences, and it just
perpetuates the self-awarenessof, maybe those internal
thoughts around why they arefeeling different.
(34:29):
Right, they're beinghighlighted by the peers.
So I just wonder, you know, ifthis is something that should be
more mainstream inconversations among the middle
schoolers and the high schoolers, like this is how you can
recognize some things in yourpeers so that they are also
alert to how to help one another, because a lot of times it's
(34:53):
like this 11 year old that wewere talking about earlier
nobody had any idea, no idea.
So for those parents that aregrieving and, you know, had to
pull the life support plug ontheir daughter.
I mean, they're just shellshocked and they're going
through a tremendous amount ofagony and grief and, to your
(35:16):
point, you know that survivorsguilt and all of these, these
different things that they'reprobably questioning.
Looking back in time, you know,is is part of this educating
the children as well as theadults, and how to recognize the
signs and are they capable ofhandling this kind of
information.
(35:36):
I'm not sure what are yourthoughts around that?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
well, I think if you make it age appropriate let's
say that the middle school wherethe 11-year-old attended the
one that is on life support whatshould be done is they should
have someone come in for bothteachers, staff and children
different sessions and do what'scalled suicide postvention,
(36:03):
because everyone has questions,every adult probably has
survivor's guilt for notspotting it, and so you need
someone to come in and decodewhat happened.
And then, once you're done withthe postvention, then I would
say then you begin with theprevention part of the sessions
so it doesn't happen again.
(36:25):
Or if it does look like it'sgoing to happen, the young
people will be able to recognizethe signs and symptoms, because
oftentimes it's a child whosaves another child.
I've got a friend whosedaughter was in her early teens
and one of her peers in herclass was doing I think she was
(36:46):
cutting or burning some sort ofnon-lethal self-harm but also
was making dangerous noises thatshe was thinking about ending
her life.
And so my friend's daughtermarched down to the school
counselor and said look, I thinkwhatever her name was is
seriously considering suicide.
(37:08):
And that's the reason that thatyoung woman who was considering
suicide is alive today becauseone of her peers stepped up and
took responsibility and marcheddown to the counselor's office.
So I think if we educate again,beginning in middle school, at
age appropriate, you don't wantto trigger anybody in middle
school.
I mean, we teach them about allsorts of other things, you know
(37:31):
tobacco cessation and drugs andalcohol and you know, and this
sex education.
And so I think, at theappropriate level, and I think
every parent should take what'scalled mentalhealthfirstaid,
mentalhealthfirstaidorg, it's aneight hour class, they throw in
(37:52):
lunch, it costs anywhere from$0 to, I think, $25.
And it's a, and there's a youthone and an adult one.
So if you're a parent, you haveyoung children, you take the
youth one and they give you abinder with all, with every it
seemed like every mental illnesspossible, you know, from simple
(38:12):
depression through non-lethalself harm, like cutting, burning
, biting, to suicide, and it hassigns and symptoms.
And then again, what to saywhen I say what to do and not do
, then resources.
So, and finally, there's anoutfit called NAMI, national
(38:33):
Alliance, middle Illness.
In AMI They've got a chapterpretty much in every county in
the country and I've got afriend whose son is
schizoaffective, had lived withschizoaffective disorder and it
was tearing the family to pieces.
And he found NAMI, or NAMI inAMI, national Alliance Middle
Illness, and they have a 12 weekclass for families, parents, on
(38:57):
schizoaffective disorder.
How do you?
You know what do you say, whatdon't you say, what do you do,
what don't you do?
How do you find resources?
And they have family to familycounseling.
So you get families togetherwho have a child, a loved one,
with schizoaffective disorderand it saved the family and
probably the young man.
And here's the best part aboutthe National Alliance Middle
(39:18):
Illness, nami, everything theydo is free, it's all volunteer
driven.
They have a couple of employees, executive director and an
executive assistant, buteverything else it's all
volunteer and everything they dois absolutely free.
So it's, I think, if parentseducate themselves.
You know, nobody wants to thinktheir child is less than
(39:40):
perfect.
But and think about this, ifparents took these, took the
first day middle health firstday class, and let's say they're
driving carpool and they've gotmore than one child, more than
their children, in the car andthey hear something or see the
sign of something that they'velearned to recognize, it's
(40:02):
called gatekeeper training.
You're standing at the gate,you're watching people come and
go and you're as they're going,you're paying attention to
everybody coming and going andit's your job to spot the signs
and symptoms, the danger signs.
You know the danger symptomsand then know what to do.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's incredible and part of when you were speaking.
I'm also wondering thechallenges that parents are
having right now because, withthe homeschooling, as you know,
schools are not fully open andparents there's a lot of parents
and I don't know that thediscussion around this is really
(40:42):
as open as it probably shouldbe there's a lot of parents that
are forced to leave theirchildren to, you know, be home
schooling themselves whilethey're off to work.
And I'm not saying you knowthat they're leaving them
inappropriately, but you knowyou have a lot of kids who are
(41:03):
home all day, you know, on theirown and when they're not in
that social setting of schooland they're more isolated in the
setting of being home.
I'm just wondering, how do we,how do we get in front of this?
I mean, is this really, is thisreally a conversation where you
(41:24):
know parents try to talk moreto your children, try to get
more, you know, in the space ofunderstanding where they are
with their mental health?
Because, as you say, right now,you know there is a situational
thing that's happening aroundthe globe where everyone is
(41:44):
experiencing grief and everyonehas, you know, a loss that
they're experiencing, but alsothere's this trauma that's
happening because we'reconstantly being bombarded by
the negativity of what we'rehearing around the world with
the news.
So you know the kids are alsofeeling the effects of that.
So I just wonder, you know, aspart of this process, is this
(42:08):
something that really parentsneed to shoulder a little bit
more to make sure that they'renot losing the connectedness you
know to the outside world,because we are social beings?
we're not we're not getting thatas much.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, and you know Zoom.
I can imagine what the worldwould be like with a pandemic,
without Zoom and Skype andFaceTime.
I mean, I, just you and Iwouldn't be chatting, or we
might be chatting on the phone.
But not.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I think you have to do.
Dr Fauci was on the news.
I was listening to him talkabout Thanksgiving and he
recommends that you just keep itto the family unit.
And he said that's what we'regoing to do.
We're going to cook aThanksgiving turkey and all the
trimmings and we're going to sitdown at the dinner table with
the computer monitor and all theextended families going to be,
(43:03):
they're going to zoom in andwe're all going to, you know.
So we're going to say theblessing and we're all going to
dig in at the same time, just asif we were there, you know, and
hopefully have thatconversation, that cross talk.
It won't be, you know, it won'tbe like it would be if we could
all get together.
But, you know, make the effortso people don't feel quite so,
you know, so isolated.
(43:24):
And they said, yes, I think oncampus I heard not a
Thanksgiving but a Friendsgiving, and don't go home for
Thanksgiving.
And, you know, drag the virusto your older, you know, your,
perhaps your grandparents, juststay on campus.
But the problem that is, youknow, is it some colleges are
going to go home forThanksgiving and you're not
coming back.
We're going to do this at adistance.
(43:45):
So, yeah, it's just.
I think this whole generation isgoing to be scarred by this.
You know it's going to.
It's going to define theirgeneration.
You know, as the Vietnam Wardefined the generation just
prior to mine, you know, in 911and so forth, you know every
generation has these cataclysmicthings that define.
(44:07):
You know that partially definestheir generation.
I think this, sadly, this isgoing to be.
This is going to be now, as acomedian, I've said the.
If there's anything funny inthis, it would be when children
come along and they're you know,the people that are now parents
become grandparents and theirgrandchild says to grandpa,
(44:28):
grandpa, I have one question.
Yes, son, why do you have alifetime supply of toilet paper
and the shit out back and thenthey have to explain to them
that, well, that's whateverybody did, you know, with
the and, by the way, it happenedagain here in Oregon when the
governor said we're shuttingdown tomorrow.
She said it on Friday.
My wife works in a grocery storeand, man, the panic buying
(44:50):
began again.
The lines out the door atCostco were just apparently
amazing.
You know it's again.
I think it's going to have.
You know there's little.
This thing's going to leavescars on on.
You know the people who havegone through it.
It's, you know the recessionplus the pandemic is going to.
Yeah, the world will never bequite the same again, and that's
(45:10):
that's why I think you know ifyou might, might, if someone's
strong in their religion youknow strong in Christ or
whatever.
I'm not particularly religious,but if I know somebody
struggling and I know they'restrong in Christ, then I've
leveraged that.
I would say to them well, look,have you prayed about this?
Have you spoken to yourminister about this?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Well, what do you?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
say, you and I and the minister do a Zoom call,
let's form a little team and seeif we can't nail this down, you
know, and see if we can'tfigure this out together.
So I recommend, if there's, ifsomebody is struggling, you know
, a mental health professional,another family member, a scout
leader, a coach, anyone that thechild has respect for and that
(45:55):
cares about the child, you know,form a team.
You know let's, you know we'reall in this together.
Let's, let's.
If we're in this together,let's get it together and
leverage whatever relationshipsthe young person has with you
know, with adults who are, youknow, positive and positive
thinking and you know, and wantto improve the situation.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, and and I think for a lot of adults, you know
it's a difficult place to be, togo within yourself into that
space and really like go waydown and pull out that part of
you that's afraid, because youdo face the sphere of I don't
(46:34):
want to mess this up, I don'twant to do this wrong, I don't
want to, you know, say the wrongwords or do the wrong thing or
you know so.
So that part of you as an adult, I mean, I think it's so.
It's so important thisconversation, conversation we're
having, because exactly whatyou were saying it's like know
(46:56):
how to talk about this and usesome of the resources and tools
that you suggested.
I mean you've given some greatresources.
You know the mental healthfirst aidorg you had mentioned.
I mean there's so many thingsthat you've mentioned during our
conversation that are soimpactful.
But I think it's also importantthat you know the adults
(47:19):
remember that this person thatyou're working with, you know,
even if it's another adult, likethey do have a purpose to be
here, just like you do, frank,and remind me, reminding that
person that you have a reason tobe here is so powerful because
they literally could take thissituation and turn it inside out
(47:41):
, like you've done, and justchange the world, because we
have no idea how many people aregoing to be changed just having
this conversation.
You and I so, and you know evenmy own personal story.
Like I have no idea how manypeople will be impacted by my
personal story, which is why I'mso passionate about getting in
front of everybody as well, andI just you know it's really
(48:04):
interesting because every showthat I do, I asked my guest
speaker if I found your earthangel feather on the ground, and
they picked it up.
What would your message to theworld be?
What would your message be?
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Start the conversation.
And that's brave, yeah, brave.
Step out of your comfort zone,because we know that eight out
of 10, nine out of 10, we cansave by simply by doing.
When I, when I close out myTEDx and my key notes, I say
this the good news is, you canmake a difference, you can save
a life, and you can often do itby doing something as simple as
(48:41):
what we're doing right now, andthat is starting a conversation.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, and it's absolutely beautiful, and every
single person that's on thisplanet has a message for the
world and every single person onthis planet has a purpose in a
reason to be here.
And, frank, this conversationhas been astounding.
(49:05):
Oh, it's so necessary right nowwith the way everything is.
And the other day, someone saidto me you know, it's amazing
because you're literally walkinginto this dark space with
people and, you know, pullingthem out into the light.
And I really didn't.
(49:26):
I really didn't let thatresonate when he first said it
and as I've let it, you know,simmer, it's like wow, I guess I
am, but it's, you know, it's.
It's.
It's impactful because, as aglobal humanitarian effort right
now, we need this conversationto be heard as far and as wide
(49:47):
as possible, and I encourage theaudience if you're listening
and you know this can helpsomeone, please, please, please,
spread this message, get thisout to as many people as you can
.
If you have a school system oreducation system that could use
this as a resource, we encourageyou to just get this message
(50:09):
out far and wide.
Is there anything else you'dlike to offer the audience,
frank, before we go?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Absolutely, and you put this in the show notes and I
do this every time I keynote.
I put myself on number up onthe screen and I tell the
audience look, here's the deal.
If you're suicidal, call thesuicidal.
If you're in a prevention, thelifeline or text the text lines
and for once I'm born.
If you're just having a reallybad day, call a crazy person.
Here's my phone number because,as somebody with mental illness
(50:39):
, I'm less likely to bejudgmental, more likely just to
listen and cosine.
Whatever difficulty they'rethey're going through, welcome
to it's.
858405, 5653858455653.
And, like said, you're welcometo call people call sometimes
it's about themselves, sometimesit's about a loved one, they,
(51:01):
you know, they got a questionwhere to find resources.
But yeah, it's, it's.
And I would recommend, by theway, if you reach out to someone
and you help them say, on adifficult day, I would, a day or
so later, reach out again Justto let just check in, to let
them know you care.
Again, this is not therapy.
(51:22):
I'm not a clinician.
All Catherine and I are here todo is to plant seeds of hope.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Absolutely, and I am so filled with gratitude for
your time today, frank, andsitting here with me and having
this conversation, and IEncourage everyone to just, you
know, look out After your fellowhumans, wherever they are in
the space, that you're connectedwith them, and just really be
(51:51):
in tune to where they're at andDo the best you can to wrap your
arms around them and love onthem and stay connected with
them, because it's so important,frank.
Thank you so so much.
It's really been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Absolutely, and that's all we have time for
today.
This is Catherine Daniels, withretreat to peace, reminding you
to live your authentic lifewith peace.
And, as always, retreat topeace.
We'll see you next time.
So welcome back and, holy moly,was that incredible what Frank
(52:27):
just shared with the audienceand All of his knowledge.
I know for a lot of us.
There are people in our liferight now that are really
struggling and and it was reallyvitally important for me to
have Frank on the show sharingwith the audience things that
are really impactful andpowerful to help one another.
(52:53):
I Don't take our conversationaround suicide lightly.
I know people who havepersonally been affected by this
in their life.
I know the scars that it leavesand and it just really wanted
to do my part to put this outinto the world to help everyone.
Part of the reason I'm comingback on is offline.
(53:16):
Frank and I had a reallyinteresting conversation around
where we are today, what'shappening today, and he had
shared with me something that Ithought was really profound,
something that took me a Back alittle bit in regards to my
(53:37):
understanding and what I thoughtWas actually happening, but
what I realized was not correct.
So he had shared with me thatthe population of people that
are most greatly affected intoday's world right now is
(53:57):
actually our young adults.
He had shared with me that 11year old girls, especially, are
the population of greatestconcern.
I had shared with him that Ihave an 11 year old niece, and
that does sound some alarmingalarm bells for me personally,
(54:21):
and I just asked him what it wasaround this demographic that
Was causing this, and he hadstated that the experts in the
field are trying to figure itout.
They don't actually know, butone of the things that they
attribute to this is that thereis a 40% decline in
(54:47):
socialization with their peers.
Now I have a friend who has a,a young girl in this age group,
and one of the things that shehad expressed to me was how
important it was that shecontinued to allow socialization
, of course cautiously, giventhe state of the world the way
(55:11):
it is, but if it came down toWhether or not there was a
socialization or having dinner,it was chosen that the
socialization was of higherpriority and she would have
dinner when she was done orlater in the day or when she was
hungry, and some of the rulesthat had always been adhered to
(55:34):
went to the wayside.
So I just share this with youbecause I think it's really
important that people know andand there has been a shift from
young adult males to the youngadult girls, females.
So please be aware of thepeople in your life, keep checks
(55:56):
on them, and especially thechildren, and, again, just open
the conversation.
Like Frank said, open theconversation among your, your
families, among your friends,and just continue to persevere.
And if you're interested insubscribing to the email list,
(56:20):
the ongoing Healing toolbox thatis individual and unique to
each person Please jump on towwwretreat2peacenet and sign up
for the email list.
Get connected and Get connectedto the community.
(56:40):
There's a lot of people thatreally need support right now,
and the healing toolbox issomething that is accessible for
free and Will allow you to gainsome tools to help your own
inner peace as far as yourhealing process.
So thank you so much for beingwith us today.
(57:02):
It's greatly appreciated.
And again, sign up forretreat2peacenet, our email, and
I Look forward to seeing younext time having a conversation
with our guest and, as always,retreat to peace.
This is Katherine Daniels.
Have a great day you.
Hey you, wherever you are in the world right now.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me.
We know that we're living insome crazy times and we know
that the world is changing.
So let's create a bridge as wetravel through one another's
countries, removing all thelabels and coming together as
one people, finding our home inone world, and that is why the
(00:56):
signature conversation today isso important.
Start the conversation, aconversation around suicide
Today.
I welcome my guest speaker,Frank King.
Hi, Frank.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Hey, hey, everybody around the world.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Thank you so much for being with us today.
I know we have a really heavytopic to talk about, but I know
that you also have this reallyunique way of having this
conversation.
So, with so much gratitude,thank you for being with the
show today and for our audience.
And I'm just filled withgratitude because I know this is
(01:33):
such a necessary conversationfor the world.
To hear and going into thisspace is not always easy, or you
know, to hear but also todigest.
So I just really appreciate youspending this time with us today
.
So if you can, Frank, justshare with the audience a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, I am a comedian .
Occasionally somebody will sayto me tell me about yourself, I
go.
Well, I'm a comedian and theygo no no, not what you do, who
you are.
Well, at the risk of beingredundant, I'm a comedian.
My mom was funny, my sister'sfunny.
My dad was funny, it's just,it's in my DNA.
Tell my first joke in fourthgrade, everybody laughed.
(02:16):
The teacher was hysterical.
I thought you know what?
I'm going to be a comedian.
In 12th grade they had a talentshow.
Nobody ever done stand up.
I did, I won and I was going tobe a comedian.
I told my mother, who was biginto education she goes, son,
you go into college first, Idon't care what you do.
When you get done, you could bea goat herder for all.
(02:37):
I care, but you are going to bea goat herder with a college
degree.
So I went to the University ofNorth Carolina at Chapel Hill,
got two degrees actually, andthen moved to San Diego with my
high school sweetheart and wegot married and I did what she
wanted me to do.
I sold insurance, worked for afirm that her father worked for
a different branch but same firmand just by chance there was a
(03:01):
branch of the world famouscomedy store in San Diego, in La
Jolla, actually California.
And I went twice to open my tosee what the competition was
like.
And third time I got up and I,middle of my five minutes set, I
thought I am home, I'm going todo this for a living, I have no
idea how.
And the day after Christmas 1985, went on the road I had 10
(03:21):
weeks booked, asked mygirlfriend if she wanted to come
along just for the ride,figuring she'd say no.
She said yes.
So we gave up our apartment andour jobs and we were on the
road together doing standup andcomedy clubs for 2,629 nights in
a row, nonstop.
Seven years opened up for RosieO'Donnell, ellen DeGeneres,
(03:42):
dennis Miller, jeff Fox wherethey were on white Adam Sandler,
kevin James back when they werejust comics Seinfeld.
And, by the way, the woman thatI married is still my wife of
33 years, which is rare forcomedians.
There's like three comicmarriages because comedians
aren't easy to live with.
She would say it's your lifeevery day, but it's not always a
(04:04):
day at the beach, anyway.
So I did comedy in the clubsfor about 10 years.
I did some radio and then Imade the jump to the corporate
comedy circuit after dinner,after lunch, you know the rubber
chicken circuit.
And then that crashed and burnedin the recession and we lost
everything in a Chapter 7bankruptcy and I came very, very
close to ending my life.
(04:25):
I did not spoil the alert in mylife, but I'd always wanted to
not just be a funny speaker, buta speaker who was funny, cover
something, a topic, a serioustopic, teach people something.
But I could never quite figureout what in the world I had to
teach anybody.
And then, after I came thatclose, began looking at my
family history of generationaldepression and suicide
(04:47):
Grandmother died by suicide andmother, founder, great aunt died
by suicide and my mother and Ifound her, I was four years old
screamed for days.
I thought, you know I couldtalk about suicide prevention.
So I took a class it's calledQPR question persuade refer QPR
Institutecom 12 hour course andthey teach you essentially the
(05:09):
signs and symptoms of depression, other mental illnesses and
thoughts of suicide, what to do,what not to do, what say, what
not to say.
Because they believe, I believeit is the most preventable
cause of death on the planet Ifyou know what to look and listen
for and if you're willing tostep out of your comfort zone,
into the breach and start theconversation, because I believe
(05:32):
in.
When it comes to mental illness,silence often kills.
You hear people say never.
He never gave any indication,we had no idea, we had no clue.
How come we didn't?
Well, you know, you probablyare.
Probably eight out of 10 peoplewho are suicidal are ambivalent
, which tells me they wantsomebody to intervene.
And nine out of 10 in the lastseven days leading up to an
(05:53):
attempt to give hints verbal,nonverbal, direct, indirect,
behavioral so that tells me thatnine out of 10 people want
somebody to step up andintervene.
And so that's what I teach ishow to have that difficult
conversation, what to look for,and then what to say and do, and
then, and more importantly,what not to say, what not to do,
because people care.
(06:14):
They just, you know, eitherthey are afraid they're going to
say the wrong thing or theydon't know what to say.
So that's where I come in, andwhat I've discovered is, even
though most people don't talkabout depression and suicide, as
my mother would say, in politecompany, if you bring it up, you
know you bring it up.
Almost everybody has a storyabout themselves, a loved one, a
(06:37):
friend.
That's what I discovered earlyon is that you know my job is to
go in and be vulnerable, tellmy story, because men don't
often share things that areemotional, and so see a man on
stage telling a story aboutsomething that serious and I get
a little choked up every time Itell the story, being that
(07:00):
vulnerable.
I read Bernay Brown's book onvulnerability about halfway
through I thought, oh mygoodness, that's my superpower.
And she also says in there I'vesaid this myself, but not as
elegantly as she says thatbecause of my mental illness,
major depressive disorder andchronic suicidal ideation, I am
(07:21):
so comfortable in my darknessthat I can sit comfortably with
you and yours, and that'svaluable to people with mental
illness.
People often say to me myfriends, depressed, what do I
say?
Don't say anything, justactively listen, you know, sort
of cosign, whatever they'regoing through.
So anyway, in 2014, I did myfirst TED Talk because everybody
(07:44):
followed me as a funny guy.
So how do you convince themthat you could do something
serious?
My wife said, famously, do aTEDx talk.
And I said, famously, what's aTEDx talk?
Just by chance, I got an emailthat week from a TEDx talk in
Vancouver, british Columbia, andthey said would you want to
apply to do a TED?
I wrote back I would.
So I filled out the applicationand I got it and I came out on
(08:07):
stage at age 56 as depressed andsuicidal.
And nobody knew my wife, myfamily, my friends, because
people with mental illness oftencover it very well.
Don't want to burden otherpeople with that kind of thing.
But I came out on stage andthen since then I've done four
more TEDx talks, each one on amental health topic, a different
(08:28):
mental health topic, and now Icoach TEDx.
After doing five of them, peoplekept coming to me hey, man,
help me get a TEDx.
My business coach goes Frank, Iknow you're doing those for
free, that's going to stop.
So I give the first half anhour for free now, or a little
(08:49):
more.
You know, more or less my momwas big into give value first,
without expectation of return.
You know that kind of thatzig-ziggler, helping up people
get what they want.
Maybe in the long run you'llget what you want, sort of thing
.
So anyway, that's my story andI've been doing since that first
TEDx and I've been speaking onsuicide prevention, corporation
(09:09):
associations, colleges.
I'm going to just kind ofinquire from Portland, oregon
today.
It's a youth mental healthgroup and they want to have a
Zoom comedy night.
And so you know who better thanthe mental health comedian,
somebody who speaks theirlanguage, to organize the Zoom?
comedy night for the youngpeople.
So anything we can do to bringthe rate down.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, that's amazing and I know, as we're sitting
here today having thisconversation, that suicide
around the globe is at a rate of30% or there about, which is
really a alarming rate in myopinion.
I know earlier this year it wasdown in the 20s.
(09:53):
So to ratchet up thatsignificantly, it's pretty
significant and I, as you werespeaking, I know you kind of ran
through this really fast.
I know you were four years oldand you know you had this
experience and you said that youhad screamed for days and I
can't even imagine you know whatthat was like for you and you
(10:18):
know I'm sorry you had to go,you know, through that
experience.
But you said something reallykey that you know people are
afraid to speak up and you knowtalk to other people about this
if there's some red flags orsomething that's happening.
And I know personally I've hadthis experience where I was
(10:38):
approached by knowledge ofsomeone who was in that space
and you know calling out forhelp and I know personally what
I did and you know part of it,as you said, was just listening.
But I think that connectednessis so important just to get you
(10:59):
know in front of them and helpthem in whatever capacity of the
space that they're sitting in.
But if you could for ouraudience, if our audience is
listening right now and there'ssomeone that they know that may
be in that space, what are sometools that you can offer to them
that would help them connectwith that person in their life?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, the what I teach in my keynotes and my
trainings, I've got a three hourup to a three hour CE on
suicide prevention.
As a matter of fact, the stateof Washington has mandated that
all healthcare providerschiropractors, nurses, doctors,
social workers, all have to havethree hours of suicide
prevention CE or they cannotrenew their license, which I
(11:44):
think is brilliant.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Dennis, hygienists, same thing.
What I teach is signs andsymptoms of depression or other
mental illness and thoughts ofsuicide.
Because, again, if eight out of10 are ambivalent, nine out of
10 give hints.
That tells me, if we just knowwhat to look for, listen for and
are willing to step up, that wecan prevent.
(12:06):
We can prevent a suicide andyou don't.
You don't have to be aclinician to prevent a suicide.
Anybody who takes an interest,and this is not therapy, it's
just planting seeds of hope iswhat we're after.
So I tell people well, thesigns of depression just a
couple of them are withdrawingfrom social activities, although
we don't have many socialactivities right now, but when
(12:27):
we do that kind of thing, peoplewithdraw, they distance
themselves or they physicallydistance themselves by moving.
They oftentimes have troublegetting up in the morning but
rally in the afternoon, which isdeceiving, you know it's either
you're worried about them inthe morning and then the
afternoon they seem, you know,on top of the world.
The here's one you can spot onZoom.
(12:50):
They're Zoom casual, as I'mwearing today my button down
casual shirt, no tie, no jacket.
But then there's, there's umdepressed casual, which means
oftentimes people who havedepression let their personal
hygiene go.
You know, if you look at themon Zoom, you notice their hair
is a little dirty and theirclothes aren't as clean as
usually.
Maybe because they're havingdifficulty getting out of bed to
(13:12):
hit the shower and then run alittle wash.
So that is, that is a.
That is a big sign and one youcan actually spot over Zoom.
Um, what I talk about in mykeynote is what not to say,
cause people say what do I sayat that point?
Well, here's what you don't sayPull yourself up by a bootstrap
, turn that frown upside down.
Have you tried fish oil?
Here's what you do say, if theyin fact admit they are.
(13:37):
You know, suffering with livingwith depression.
Okay, I'm here for you and Imean it.
I know you're not crazy, lazyor self-absorbed.
I know that depression is amental illness.
The good news is, with time andtreatment, things will get
better.
I will take the time, I'll helpyou get the treatment, and you
got to mean that.
And then here's the biggie youhave to ask them flat out are
(13:58):
you having thoughts of suicide?
And if you can't ask thatquestion, I would recommend you
find somebody who can.
It's a difficult question toask Now.
There's an old urban legendthat you should never mention
the S word suicide in front ofsomebody who's depressed, and I,
as a comedian, I love thereasoning it might give them the
idea suicide.
(14:20):
What a great idea.
Why didn't I think of that?
Trust me, it's crossed theirmind.
Now let's say they do not admitto having thoughts of suicide.
How would you know?
Well, there are signs Talkingabout death and dying, googling
death and dying.
Death and dying appears as atheme in their writing, their
(14:41):
artwork, their music, gettingtheir affairs in order, giving
away prized possessions becausethey want to make sure they go
to the people they're going togo to when they're gone and
giving away a pet is the top ofthe pyramid and giving away
prized possessions because theywant to make sure that the
animal is taken care of.
There's a counterintuitive onethat I think is very dangerous
(15:02):
is that they've been depressedfor a long time and now they're
happy, happy without anyparticular reason, and you're
happy because, dear goodness,they're finally happy.
Well, here's the problem.
They may be happy becausethey've chosen time, place and
method and they know the pain isfinite.
(15:23):
A lot of people, I think, areunaware that the majority of
suicides, the person doesn'tnecessarily want to kill
themselves, they simply want toend the pain.
I just wanted to end the painwhen I came so close, and so
here's another myth, I believe,if I can be a myth buster for a
minute, you hear people saysuicides occur, they act, you
(15:47):
know, taking your own life.
It takes a lot of nerve to takeyour own life.
And the second thing you hearis it's selfish.
Well, in the mind of the personwho is thinking of suicide
because they say well, weren'tthey thinking about the impact
on their friends and family?
As a matter of fact, they were,I was.
It's, it's, it's something insuicidality called
(16:08):
burdensomeness.
They honestly believe Ihonestly believe that that I was
a burden and that my wife wouldbe better off without me
because I had a million dollarlife insurance policy and if I
died she would get the milliondollars and she would be
restored financially.
The bankruptcy would be as ifit never happened.
(16:28):
She'd be brokenhearted, but shewouldn't be broke anymore.
So, irrational as it is thatthe person is a burden, and I'm
sure if you asked the peoplethat they were worried about
being a burden to, they would gono, no, no, no, no.
You're not a burden.
No, no, no.
But that's that's what's goingon in the mind of the person who
is kind of playing suicide.
They truly believe that theyare a burden.
(16:51):
Now, let's say they admit tohaving thoughts of suicide.
The question comes up what doyou do?
Well, here's what you say Doyou have a plan?
And if they have a plan, whatis your plan and if it's
detailed, you know time, place,method.
Your job is to get them on thephone with the suicide
prevention the lifeline, orthere's for younger people.
(17:13):
There's now a text line in theUnited States.
You text the word help orconnect to 741-741.
And there'd be somebody roughlyyour age as a young person on
the other end, because youngpeople seem to be more
forthcoming in text than theyare, like, as old people.
I'm 63 on the phone, so if theperson will pick up, will not
(17:35):
pick up the phone and youbelieve you're actively suicidal
, you pick up the phone, youcall the suicide prevention
lifeline and the volunteer willdo their best to get the phone
in the hand of the person who isin crisis.
Now the question comes up whendo you dial 911?
If they're an immediate threatto themselves or somebody else,
you have no choice but dial 911.
(17:56):
Now that's going to buy themgenerally a three day
involuntary detention order andthey're going to be in a mental
health facility, locked down forthree days with no belt or shoe
strings, but they'll be alive.
Now let's say they have a plan,but it's not particularly
detailed.
What do you do?
And this, by the way, is not inany psychology book.
Psychiatrist friend and I cameup with this.
(18:18):
He also lives with chronicsuicidal ideation.
I say to them well, are you,are you going to kill yourself,
just like that?
And if they say no, then I say,ok, tell me, why not?
Make them give voice to why.
(18:39):
You know it's my family, myfriends, my pets, whatever it is
, make them give voice.
And if you ask me oh, frank,you got to kill yourself.
You know you have chronicsuicidal ideation.
It's always on, you know it'salways there.
Here's the thing about chronicsuicidal ideation and they're
probably people listening to youand me right now who have this
(18:59):
and they may be unaware it has aname.
Every time I've spoken exceptonce somebody's come up
afterwards after I describechronic suicidal ideation and
said I didn't know it had a nameI thought I was some kind of
freak.
And all Chronic suicidalsuicidal ideation means that for
people like me, my tribe, theoption of suicide is always on
(19:22):
the menu as a solution forproblems, large and small.
It just bubbles up every timethere's a problem.
I give you an example, when Isay small.
Three years ago my car brokedown.
I had three thoughts unbiddenGet it fixed, buy a new one or I
could just kill myself.
That's chronic suicidalideation.
And a young woman come up to meafter a college show.
(19:44):
She said thank you for yourkeynote.
I said you're welcome.
She said but I got to tell youit made me weep.
I didn't make you weep, shesaid.
Well, you know your story aboutyour car.
You know get it fixed, buy anew one, just kill yourself.
She goes.
I've been having those thoughtsmy entire life.
I thought I was some kind offreak and all alone.
And I heard you say that outloud and for the first time in
(20:04):
my life I realized I was not infact alone and I wept.
Okay, here's the reason.
That is one of the reasons Idon't kill myself is that it's
sort of like being George Bailey.
It's a wonderful life.
I've been showing what people'slives would be like if I were
not there to speak and reassurethem that they are not alone.
(20:25):
So if I kill myself, I wouldtake all those people with me
who never had a chance to hearme speak and let them know
they're not, in fact, alone.
So that's one of the big reasonsI don't because I can't.
Friend of mine said you can'tlive with that, I go.
No, I can't die with that, Icannot.
I just um that a friend who wasin his dad was in AA, uh,
(20:47):
raging alcoholic for 40 years,got an AA 20 years sober, sober
of the day and he sponsoredumpteen people and somebody
asked him about 15 year mark,you're going to ever drink again
?
And he goes.
No, and they go.
How can you say that?
He said because of all thepeople I've sponsored and all
the people I'm going to sponsor,if I dive back into that bottle
(21:08):
, they'll dive back in with meand I can't live with that.
So that would be my wife.
He said you're going to killyourself.
No, why I think it's importantthat they give voice.
He makes them give voice outloud to why they're going to
stick around.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
So I, yeah, and I appreciate that so much.
I mean, that was so powerpacked as far as what you
offered the audience, and it'sjust a testament of your purpose
in life and why you're here andwhat you're doing is.
You can hear the passion inyour voice.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
You can hear you can.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
It just radiates through every you know the
airwaves.
I mean it's amazing.
And I, you know, I know formyself.
When I was in this situation,talking to someone about them
wanting to end their life, youknow they were just in so much
pain and right now the world isin a lot of pain.
(22:06):
People are just experiencingthis high level of pain.
I've recorded a few showsrecently where people have
talked about, you know, beingdiagnosed with a medical
condition and they feel likethat's the only way out.
Or the woman that I spoke tooverseas being in lockdown and
(22:27):
feeling like the only way theycan escape.
You know this present statethat we're in, where we can't do
things, that's the only way out.
There's just so many exampleswhere people are using that as
their way out, and as suiciderates are ratcheting up around
the world, I think it's reallyimportant that we're able to
(22:49):
kind of peel back the layers andsay there are other
opportunities for you besidestaking that avenue.
And, as you said, you know,just like asking the questions
and taking a deeper dive withthe person.
(23:10):
When you hear of young peopleright now and I know this week
actually and I'll share thisbecause I'm sure this has
happened to someone else as well.
I actually had a news feed comethrough that had shared that
11-year-old little girl had hungherself and it didn't
(23:35):
successfully work.
So she was brain dead but onlife support.
And now the parents are, youknow, now faced with this
decision to take her off of lifesupport.
This really grabbed me becauseI really aware that around the
world, young people are reallystruggling with understanding
(23:58):
how to process their thoughts,given that there's not a lot of
control of what's going on intheir life.
You know, they're schooling athome or maybe not able to go to
school full time because they'rehalfway in the door, halfway
out the door.
You know all of these thingswe're in person, we're not Right
, right, and then you know it'sinteresting, because their brain
(24:21):
development is in such a statethat they don't have the
cognitive ability to fullyunderstand things the way that
adults do.
And adults are struggling.
So they're not fully, you know,present as far as able to
communicate with childrenexactly what's going on in the
world.
And then, given the child's age, you know how much information
(24:43):
is too much and how much do yougo into the space with them.
So there's a lot of layers toall of this with children around
the world.
And I just wonder, you know,besides recognizing the signs of
depression in some of thesethings you speak to, I mean, are
there other opportunities forparents that they can, you know,
(25:07):
really help their childrennavigate these troubling times?
And how do you, I mean, do yourecommend anything Like?
Do you recommend parents maybehave their children journal to
try to, you know, detox the bodyor the brain from some of these
thoughts?
And you know, I mean, what aresome suggestions that you may
(25:29):
offer up to parents that canhelp them?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well, I would start with, if the child seems to be
or you believe the child perhapsis depressed, I would set up a
telemedicine appointment and doyour best to have them evaluated
, because it's, you know,knowledge is power and it
defined to figure out.
Perhaps.
Is it?
Is it situational depression?
Is it like the depression Ilive with, organic?
(25:52):
Is it something in the DNA?
And then, if they are in fact,if it turns out, they are in
fact depressed.
I think, and I give this adviceto adults, I think everybody
needs self-care plan.
We talked about it off the air.
I have a TV, a TEDx, I have akeynote called social distancing
(26:15):
and staying sane.
Don't worry about your mentallyill friends, because those of
us are mentally ill and highfunctioning.
We almost all have a self-careplan and other techniques, and
mine is diet, exercise, goodnight sleep, meditation and, in
my case, a little medication.
And, and I also recommend, aroutine.
You know everybody's routinehas been just blown out of the
(26:37):
water.
You know the kids aren't goingto school or they had school at
the dining room table and theparents are home, not going to
work and there.
So what's lacking?
I believe they asked a guy whowas in the space station for a
year about social isolation.
You know how, would you how?
And he said one word routine.
(26:59):
He said we I go to bed sametime, I get up same time, eat my
meals same time.
So I think the family shouldget together.
I would even get a whiteboard.
You know, if you have lots offamily, like kids and parents
and maybe three generations, onehousehold and you know,
scheduled out, we all eat atthis time, we're gonna do.
We're all at dinner table, allthe devices are off.
You know, and you know this iswhen we exercise, when we binge
(27:22):
watch Netflix, this is when youknow Disney plus, so that you,
you have to control the thingsyou can control, which people
with mental illness learn veryquickly because we wake up in it
in a, in an uncertain world,whether there's a pandemic or
not.
And something I could share withparents who suspect perhaps
their child is living with amental illness, even if it's
(27:43):
just situational depression, isthat having a mental illness and
a lot of neuro, typical neuro,normal people don't don't quite
get.
This is like that Greekcharacter Sisyphus.
He gave fire to man and theother guys decided his
punishment would be he'd roll.
He'd have to roll a rock up ahill every day and and the the
deal was, if he could get itover the top of the hill then he
(28:05):
could retire, but every timeyou got a close to the top
they'd roll back out of thebottom.
Having a mental illness is likethat.
Every morning you wake up andthere's a rock in a hill.
Some days a rock is small andthe hill is not so steep.
Some days rock is a boulder andthe hill is kill them in jarra.
But every day there's a rockand a hill.
(28:26):
So you know, parents tend not towant anything to be wrong with
their children, tend to blamethemselves if something does go
wrong, like this young woman whotried to hang herself at age 11
.
I'm sure the parents there's alot of survivors guilt and
wondering what they've donewrong.
And you know he, perhaps theydid.
They were not aware that shewas living with them, even
(28:48):
situational depression and 11.
I have a friend who tried itfor 8 and 12 and it bipolar
disorder runs in this family andhe ended up that that was a
diagnosis.
But yeah, it's, and it seems tobe younger and younger people
are are.
You know?
I believe mental healtheducation should begin in middle
(29:10):
school, catch em early.
Because you catch somebodyearly with whatever the ailment
happens to be, the long termprognosis is far better if you
catch those things early and Ithink me personally I did a TEDx
on this called mental withbenefits, because everybody I've
(29:32):
ever met who wasn't completelydysfunctional, who had a middle
illness children, teenagers,adults always had some sort of
ability that their peers didn'thave.
I believe middle illness isactually combination of middle
able, this and middle illnessand middle ableness.
30 fortune 500 companies noware hiring people on the autism
(29:55):
spectrum for their special gift.
They have their own, thespectrum, but they do one thing
extremely well and 30, includingGoogle, is hiring people on the
spectrum because of this onething they do extremely well.
So I believe that with children,if they've got a mental illness
(30:15):
, do your best to figure outwhat the mental ableness is and
then wrap your arms around that,enhance it, energizes,
celebrate it, because I believethat would change the frame for
the child.
You know you.
Know you what I did?
The TEDx I said to the audienceI'm I.
I don't believe that I ambroken.
I believe I was made this wayand it's my job to take, you
(30:40):
know the, those blessings that Ihave, along with the curse of
middle illness, and and wrap myarms around that.
And and you know, let's say achild has OCD.
The stem, I think, the IEP, theindividual education, but it
should truly be individual kidsgot OCD, so I would the stem
(31:02):
program, science, technology,engineering, mathematics, every
one of those disciplines, everyproblem to solve in those
disciplines has one right answer, one.
And so why not put the youngperson in that stem program and
then steer them on a career pathto an industry where they they
value precision and attention todetail?
(31:22):
And so the young person, ifthey go in the, in the
architecture, engineering,banking, whatever, where they
really is to the penny or youknow it's very precise, then
they're rewarded handsomely forthis ability that you know their
peers, many of them, don't have.
Now, if it's dyslexia, stem isnot a good idea because it's
(31:44):
just letters and numbers rollingaround the page.
You know humanities, arts,multi, multi, multi dimensional,
complex tasks are fabulous at.
So you know that's where Iwould steer the child, into
those, into those curriculum.
And I think you should changethe, not only curriculum but the
teaching method.
I've got a friend who taughtmusic instruments and he said
(32:08):
Frank, you know some of the kidsthat I taught the ones that had
ADD, adhd were the bestmusicians.
The problem was, if you sitthem down on a chair and you ask
them to play scales for 50minutes, in the first 10 minutes
they get better.
The next 40 minutes most theirenergy is going just to keep
their behind in the chair.
So he goes on a whim.
(32:30):
I bought an egg timer and Isaid it for 10 minutes.
I said to the young person okay, let's play scales for 10
minutes, then we'll do somethingelse.
Egg timer goes off.
Okay, now let's practice ourbreathing for 10 minutes.
Practice a read.
Timer goes off.
Now let's practice those twopieces you can be playing at the
concert on Saturday.
Egg timer goes off, he goes.
The improvement was amazingbecause they're not having to
(32:51):
spend all that energy to sitstill, because they know 10
minutes on something else, 10minutes on something else, which
I thought was brilliant.
So I think that that is amessage.
We need to make the individualeducation plan truly.
I mean down to the point whereI don't think every six-year-old
belongs in first grade, youknow, in every seven-year-old in
(33:13):
second grade.
I think again, we should adjustto fit the child's abilities
yeah, and that probably is inthe distant future.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I'm not sure you know .
It's not very fast, but youknow this conversation around
our children.
I am also wondering too, youknow, is this something that we
teach the children how torecognize this within our, you
know, our social circles?
And the reason I bring this upis because I know for my own
(33:47):
children, when they were goingthrough middle school and even
high school, they knew ofsomeone who was in the bathroom
and they were cutting or theywere, you know, doing self-harm
to their bodies.
And it's such a difficult stageof life because, you know,
(34:08):
there's so much emphasis on thedifferences that are made to
feel like that they're bad orbecause of their differences, or
you know, those highlighteddifferences, and it just
perpetuates the self-awarenessof, maybe those internal
thoughts around why they arefeeling different.
(34:29):
Right, they're beinghighlighted by the peers.
So I just wonder, you know, ifthis is something that should be
more mainstream inconversations among the middle
schoolers and the high schoolers, like this is how you can
recognize some things in yourpeers so that they are also
alert to how to help one another, because a lot of times it's
(34:53):
like this 11 year old that wewere talking about earlier
nobody had any idea, no idea.
So for those parents that aregrieving and, you know, had to
pull the life support plug ontheir daughter.
I mean, they're just shellshocked and they're going
through a tremendous amount ofagony and grief and, to your
(35:16):
point, you know that survivorsguilt and all of these, these
different things that they'reprobably questioning.
Looking back in time, you know,is is part of this educating
the children as well as theadults, and how to recognize the
signs and are they capable ofhandling this kind of
information.
(35:36):
I'm not sure what are yourthoughts around that?
Speaker 2 (35:39):
well, I think if you make it age appropriate let's
say that the middle school wherethe 11-year-old attended the
one that is on life support whatshould be done is they should
have someone come in for bothteachers, staff and children
different sessions and do what'scalled suicide postvention,
(36:03):
because everyone has questions,every adult probably has
survivor's guilt for notspotting it, and so you need
someone to come in and decodewhat happened.
And then, once you're done withthe postvention, then I would
say then you begin with theprevention part of the sessions
so it doesn't happen again.
(36:25):
Or if it does look like it'sgoing to happen, the young
people will be able to recognizethe signs and symptoms, because
oftentimes it's a child whosaves another child.
I've got a friend whosedaughter was in her early teens
and one of her peers in herclass was doing I think she was
(36:46):
cutting or burning some sort ofnon-lethal self-harm but also
was making dangerous noises thatshe was thinking about ending
her life.
And so my friend's daughtermarched down to the school
counselor and said look, I thinkwhatever her name was is
seriously considering suicide.
(37:08):
And that's the reason that thatyoung woman who was considering
suicide is alive today becauseone of her peers stepped up and
took responsibility and marcheddown to the counselor's office.
So I think if we educate again,beginning in middle school, at
age appropriate, you don't wantto trigger anybody in middle
school.
I mean, we teach them about allsorts of other things, you know
(37:31):
tobacco cessation and drugs andalcohol and you know, and this
sex education.
And so I think, at theappropriate level, and I think
every parent should take what'scalled mentalhealthfirstaid,
mentalhealthfirstaidorg, it's aneight hour class, they throw in
(37:52):
lunch, it costs anywhere from$0 to, I think, $25.
And it's a, and there's a youthone and an adult one.
So if you're a parent, you haveyoung children, you take the
youth one and they give you abinder with all, with every it
seemed like every mental illnesspossible, you know, from simple
(38:12):
depression through non-lethalself harm, like cutting, burning
, biting, to suicide, and it hassigns and symptoms.
And then again, what to saywhen I say what to do and not do
, then resources.
So, and finally, there's anoutfit called NAMI, national
(38:33):
Alliance, middle Illness.
In AMI They've got a chapterpretty much in every county in
the country and I've got afriend whose son is
schizoaffective, had lived withschizoaffective disorder and it
was tearing the family to pieces.
And he found NAMI, or NAMI inAMI, national Alliance Middle
Illness, and they have a 12 weekclass for families, parents, on
(38:57):
schizoaffective disorder.
How do you?
You know what do you say, whatdon't you say, what do you do,
what don't you do?
How do you find resources?
And they have family to familycounseling.
So you get families togetherwho have a child, a loved one,
with schizoaffective disorderand it saved the family and
probably the young man.
And here's the best part aboutthe National Alliance Middle
(39:18):
Illness, nami, everything theydo is free, it's all volunteer
driven.
They have a couple of employees, executive director and an
executive assistant, buteverything else it's all
volunteer and everything they dois absolutely free.
So it's, I think, if parentseducate themselves.
You know, nobody wants to thinktheir child is less than
(39:40):
perfect.
But and think about this, ifparents took these, took the
first day middle health firstday class, and let's say they're
driving carpool and they've gotmore than one child, more than
their children, in the car andthey hear something or see the
sign of something that they'velearned to recognize, it's
(40:02):
called gatekeeper training.
You're standing at the gate,you're watching people come and
go and you're as they're going,you're paying attention to
everybody coming and going andit's your job to spot the signs
and symptoms, the danger signs.
You know the danger symptomsand then know what to do.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
That's incredible and part of when you were speaking.
I'm also wondering thechallenges that parents are
having right now because, withthe homeschooling, as you know,
schools are not fully open andparents there's a lot of parents
and I don't know that thediscussion around this is really
(40:42):
as open as it probably shouldbe there's a lot of parents that
are forced to leave theirchildren to, you know, be home
schooling themselves whilethey're off to work.
And I'm not saying you knowthat they're leaving them
inappropriately, but you knowyou have a lot of kids who are
(41:03):
home all day, you know, on theirown and when they're not in
that social setting of schooland they're more isolated in the
setting of being home.
I'm just wondering, how do we,how do we get in front of this?
I mean, is this really, is thisreally a conversation where you
(41:24):
know parents try to talk moreto your children, try to get
more, you know, in the space ofunderstanding where they are
with their mental health?
Because, as you say, right now,you know there is a situational
thing that's happening aroundthe globe where everyone is
(41:44):
experiencing grief and everyonehas, you know, a loss that
they're experiencing, but alsothere's this trauma that's
happening because we'reconstantly being bombarded by
the negativity of what we'rehearing around the world with
the news.
So you know the kids are alsofeeling the effects of that.
So I just wonder, you know, aspart of this process, is this
(42:08):
something that really parentsneed to shoulder a little bit
more to make sure that they'renot losing the connectedness you
know to the outside world,because we are social beings?
we're not we're not getting thatas much.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Yeah, and you know Zoom.
I can imagine what the worldwould be like with a pandemic,
without Zoom and Skype andFaceTime.
I mean, I, just you and Iwouldn't be chatting, or we
might be chatting on the phone.
But not.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Yeah, I think you have to do.
Dr Fauci was on the news.
I was listening to him talkabout Thanksgiving and he
recommends that you just keep itto the family unit.
And he said that's what we'regoing to do.
We're going to cook aThanksgiving turkey and all the
trimmings and we're going to sitdown at the dinner table with
the computer monitor and all theextended families going to be,
(43:03):
they're going to zoom in andwe're all going to, you know.
So we're going to say theblessing and we're all going to
dig in at the same time, just asif we were there, you know, and
hopefully have thatconversation, that cross talk.
It won't be, you know, it won'tbe like it would be if we could
all get together.
But, you know, make the effortso people don't feel quite so,
you know, so isolated.
(43:24):
And they said, yes, I think oncampus I heard not a
Thanksgiving but a Friendsgiving, and don't go home for
Thanksgiving.
And, you know, drag the virusto your older, you know, your,
perhaps your grandparents, juststay on campus.
But the problem that is, youknow, is it some colleges are
going to go home forThanksgiving and you're not
coming back.
We're going to do this at adistance.
(43:45):
So, yeah, it's just.
I think this whole generation isgoing to be scarred by this.
You know it's going to.
It's going to define theirgeneration.
You know, as the Vietnam Wardefined the generation just
prior to mine, you know, in 911and so forth, you know every
generation has these cataclysmicthings that define.
(44:07):
You know that partially definestheir generation.
I think this, sadly, this isgoing to be.
This is going to be now, as acomedian, I've said the.
If there's anything funny inthis, it would be when children
come along and they're you know,the people that are now parents
become grandparents and theirgrandchild says to grandpa,
(44:28):
grandpa, I have one question.
Yes, son, why do you have alifetime supply of toilet paper
and the shit out back and thenthey have to explain to them
that, well, that's whateverybody did, you know, with
the and, by the way, it happenedagain here in Oregon when the
governor said we're shuttingdown tomorrow.
She said it on Friday.
My wife works in a grocery storeand, man, the panic buying
(44:50):
began again.
The lines out the door atCostco were just apparently
amazing.
You know it's again.
I think it's going to have.
You know there's little.
This thing's going to leavescars on on.
You know the people who havegone through it.
It's, you know the recessionplus the pandemic is going to.
Yeah, the world will never bequite the same again, and that's
(45:10):
that's why I think you know ifyou might, might, if someone's
strong in their religion youknow strong in Christ or
whatever.
I'm not particularly religious,but if I know somebody
struggling and I know they'restrong in Christ, then I've
leveraged that.
I would say to them well, look,have you prayed about this?
Have you spoken to yourminister about this?
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Well, what do you?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
say, you and I and the minister do a Zoom call,
let's form a little team and seeif we can't nail this down, you
know, and see if we can'tfigure this out together.
So I recommend, if there's, ifsomebody is struggling, you know
, a mental health professional,another family member, a scout
leader, a coach, anyone that thechild has respect for and that
(45:55):
cares about the child, you know,form a team.
You know let's, you know we'reall in this together.
Let's, let's.
If we're in this together,let's get it together and
leverage whatever relationshipsthe young person has with you
know, with adults who are, youknow, positive and positive
thinking and you know, and wantto improve the situation.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah, and and I think for a lot of adults, you know
it's a difficult place to be, togo within yourself into that
space and really like go waydown and pull out that part of
you that's afraid, because youdo face the sphere of I don't
(46:34):
want to mess this up, I don'twant to do this wrong, I don't
want to, you know, say the wrongwords or do the wrong thing or
you know so.
So that part of you as an adult, I mean, I think it's so.
It's so important thisconversation, conversation we're
having, because exactly whatyou were saying it's like know
(46:56):
how to talk about this and usesome of the resources and tools
that you suggested.
I mean you've given some greatresources.
You know the mental healthfirst aidorg you had mentioned.
I mean there's so many thingsthat you've mentioned during our
conversation that are soimpactful.
But I think it's also importantthat you know the adults
(47:19):
remember that this person thatyou're working with, you know,
even if it's another adult, likethey do have a purpose to be
here, just like you do, frank,and remind me, reminding that
person that you have a reason tobe here is so powerful because
they literally could take thissituation and turn it inside out
(47:41):
, like you've done, and justchange the world, because we
have no idea how many people aregoing to be changed just having
this conversation.
You and I so, and you know evenmy own personal story.
Like I have no idea how manypeople will be impacted by my
personal story, which is why I'mso passionate about getting in
front of everybody as well, andI just you know it's really
(48:04):
interesting because every showthat I do, I asked my guest
speaker if I found your earthangel feather on the ground, and
they picked it up.
What would your message to theworld be?
What would your message be?
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Start the conversation.
And that's brave, yeah, brave.
Step out of your comfort zone,because we know that eight out
of 10, nine out of 10, we cansave by simply by doing.
When I, when I close out myTEDx and my key notes, I say
this the good news is, you canmake a difference, you can save
a life, and you can often do itby doing something as simple as
(48:41):
what we're doing right now, andthat is starting a conversation.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Yeah, and it's absolutely beautiful, and every
single person that's on thisplanet has a message for the
world and every single person onthis planet has a purpose in a
reason to be here.
And, frank, this conversationhas been astounding.
(49:05):
Oh, it's so necessary right nowwith the way everything is.
And the other day, someone saidto me you know, it's amazing
because you're literally walkinginto this dark space with
people and, you know, pullingthem out into the light.
And I really didn't.
(49:26):
I really didn't let thatresonate when he first said it
and as I've let it, you know,simmer, it's like wow, I guess I
am, but it's, you know, it's.
It's.
It's impactful because, as aglobal humanitarian effort right
now, we need this conversationto be heard as far and as wide
(49:47):
as possible, and I encourage theaudience if you're listening
and you know this can helpsomeone, please, please, please,
spread this message, get thisout to as many people as you can
.
If you have a school system oreducation system that could use
this as a resource, we encourageyou to just get this message
(50:09):
out far and wide.
Is there anything else you'dlike to offer the audience,
frank, before we go?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Absolutely, and you put this in the show notes and I
do this every time I keynote.
I put myself on number up onthe screen and I tell the
audience look, here's the deal.
If you're suicidal, call thesuicidal.
If you're in a prevention, thelifeline or text the text lines
and for once I'm born.
If you're just having a reallybad day, call a crazy person.
Here's my phone number because,as somebody with mental illness
(50:39):
, I'm less likely to bejudgmental, more likely just to
listen and cosine.
Whatever difficulty they'rethey're going through, welcome
to it's.
858405, 5653858455653.
And, like said, you're welcometo call people call sometimes
it's about themselves, sometimesit's about a loved one, they,
(51:01):
you know, they got a questionwhere to find resources.
But yeah, it's, it's.
And I would recommend, by theway, if you reach out to someone
and you help them say, on adifficult day, I would, a day or
so later, reach out again Justto let just check in, to let
them know you care.
Again, this is not therapy.
(51:22):
I'm not a clinician.
All Catherine and I are here todo is to plant seeds of hope.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Absolutely, and I am so filled with gratitude for
your time today, frank, andsitting here with me and having
this conversation, and IEncourage everyone to just, you
know, look out After your fellowhumans, wherever they are in
the space, that you're connectedwith them, and just really be
(51:51):
in tune to where they're at andDo the best you can to wrap your
arms around them and love onthem and stay connected with
them, because it's so important,frank.
Thank you so so much.
It's really been a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
Absolutely, and that's all we have time for
today.
This is Catherine Daniels, withretreat to peace, reminding you
to live your authentic lifewith peace.
And, as always, retreat topeace.
We'll see you next time.
So welcome back and, holy moly,was that incredible what Frank
(52:27):
just shared with the audienceand All of his knowledge.
I know for a lot of us.
There are people in our liferight now that are really
struggling and and it was reallyvitally important for me to
have Frank on the show sharingwith the audience things that
are really impactful andpowerful to help one another.
(52:53):
I Don't take our conversationaround suicide lightly.
I know people who havepersonally been affected by this
in their life.
I know the scars that it leavesand and it just really wanted
to do my part to put this outinto the world to help everyone.
Part of the reason I'm comingback on is offline.
(53:16):
Frank and I had a reallyinteresting conversation around
where we are today, what'shappening today, and he had
shared with me something that Ithought was really profound,
something that took me a Back alittle bit in regards to my
(53:37):
understanding and what I thoughtWas actually happening, but
what I realized was not correct.
So he had shared with me thatthe population of people that
are most greatly affected intoday's world right now is
(53:57):
actually our young adults.
He had shared with me that 11year old girls, especially, are
the population of greatestconcern.
I had shared with him that Ihave an 11 year old niece, and
that does sound some alarmingalarm bells for me personally,
(54:21):
and I just asked him what it wasaround this demographic that
Was causing this, and he hadstated that the experts in the
field are trying to figure itout.
They don't actually know, butone of the things that they
attribute to this is that thereis a 40% decline in
(54:47):
socialization with their peers.
Now I have a friend who has a,a young girl in this age group,
and one of the things that shehad expressed to me was how
important it was that shecontinued to allow socialization
, of course cautiously, giventhe state of the world the way
(55:11):
it is, but if it came down toWhether or not there was a
socialization or having dinner,it was chosen that the
socialization was of higherpriority and she would have
dinner when she was done orlater in the day or when she was
hungry, and some of the rulesthat had always been adhered to
(55:34):
went to the wayside.
So I just share this with youbecause I think it's really
important that people know andand there has been a shift from
young adult males to the youngadult girls, females.
So please be aware of thepeople in your life, keep checks
(55:56):
on them, and especially thechildren, and, again, just open
the conversation.
Like Frank said, open theconversation among your, your
families, among your friends,and just continue to persevere.
And if you're interested insubscribing to the email list,
(56:20):
the ongoing Healing toolbox thatis individual and unique to
each person Please jump on towwwretreat2peacenet and sign up
for the email list.
Get connected and Get connectedto the community.
(56:40):
There's a lot of people thatreally need support right now,
and the healing toolbox issomething that is accessible for
free and Will allow you to gainsome tools to help your own
inner peace as far as yourhealing process.
So thank you so much for beingwith us today.
(57:02):
It's greatly appreciated.
And again, sign up forretreat2peacenet, our email, and
I Look forward to seeing younext time having a conversation
with our guest and, as always,retreat to peace.
This is Katherine Daniels.
Have a great day you.
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