When you imagine the journey to motherhood, do you picture it as a straightforward path? Unfortunately, for many women, the reality is a course riddled with trials and heartache. This soul-stirring episode centers on my personal narrative and that of Rachel Delacrosse. Rachel, a beacon of strength in the face of adversity, shares her deeply emotional journey through infertility and loss. We discuss how these experiences have shaped our lives, and the support systems we've found and created for others who walk this path.
The complexities of fertility treatments are often overlooked. We journey into the intricate world of IVF and the emotional roller coaster that accompanies it. I share my unique experience, touching on the anxiety, hope, and unexpected outcomes that can emerge. We delve into the arduous choices and sacrifices made during the process, underlining the resilience required in the face of disappointment. Like many others, Rachel and I have faced the crushing heartache of pregnancy loss. We discuss the grief spaces provided by the Sherriff Lancaster organization and how vital these outlets are in honoring lost children and supporting grieving parents.
In the end, it's all about understanding and empathy. This episode reaffirms the importance of acknowledging each unique journey through infertility, pregnancy loss, and the profound voyage to motherhood. We emphasize the importance of communal support and how sharing our experiences can help others feel less alone during these trying times. Together, we're breaking the silence on fertility struggles and loss. Tune in, listen, relate, and understand that everyone's journey to motherhood is unique. Let this episode serve as a testament to our resilience, and a reminder that through grief and loss, we are never alone.
Please visit us at: http://retreattopeace.com to find out more about the shows you love to listen to, the upcoming retreats we have planned and your favorite merchandise to help support those in need. Also, send us your testimonial of how the show or Catherine has helped you. We would love to share your story on the air.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Thank you so much for being here with me.
We know that we're livingthrough some crazy times and we
know the world is changing, solet's create a bridge as we come
together one another, removingall of our labels and just being
together as one people in oneworld as we do this.
This is why our signature talktoday Journey to Motherhood
(00:34):
through Infertility and Loss isso, so important.
We have a series of talksspecific to mothers, and this is
a very, very special talk, andI'm so honored and privileged to
have my guest speaker, rachelDelacrosse.
Hi, rachel, hi, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me.
(00:54):
I know this is a really toughtopic for women, so I'm so
grateful and filled withgratitude that you can be here
and if you could just take amoment and just introduce
yourself and share a little bitabout who you are, how you got
here and let the world know whyyou're so special to this.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes.
So I'll start with just meetingmy husband.
When we met he had told me thathe would not most likely not be
able to have any kids and atthe time most of his
relationships would not havegone anywhere after that because
(01:39):
most people, that would havebeen a real hard thing for them
to be able to handle.
But for me, I was scared todeath of the idea of getting
pregnant and having a baby.
That was probably my biggestfear up until that point, the
idea of that whole process.
So we were like, wow, we'repretty perfect together.
(02:01):
I don't have to worry aboutgetting pregnant, we have this
nice journey.
So came together.
I feel like that way, and astime went on, we knew we wanted
to be parents.
So our journey just kind ofstarted with what are our
options and yeah, so that's kindof how it began, and then all
(02:25):
of the details to follow.
And now I'm a stay at homemother.
I've started support groups forwomen that are going on their
journey journey to motherhoodbecause everybody's journey
looks different.
Some are unexpected journeys,some are difficult journeys,
some just never come togetherthe way that you thought they
(02:47):
would.
So to give love and support towomen going through that has
been my focus and that's whereI'm at, and by sharing my story,
I feel like that givesopportunity to let people know
that they're not alone, likethere's so many people with so
many experiences that you don'thave to give up, like it might
look different than what youthought, but you don't have to
(03:07):
give up on being a parent.
You just don't.
There's so many options.
Even if you're a pet parent,you're still like there's so
many options.
You just have to change yourlens and just determine what you
want to do and how you want toget there.
So that's my focus now is justhow can I love and support women
on their journey and throughall their experiences and
(03:29):
network them with other womenthat had similar experiences to
give them individual support.
So that's where my heart's at.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I love all that and I can relate to you in so many
ways.
I personally have gone throughbereavement and loss of a baby
and that was one of the things Ithink was so difficult because
in my experience, you know I waspregnant, everything was going
(03:57):
okay and then all of a suddenthere was this grinding halt and
I ended up being in thehospital and literally it was
like one minute everything wasokay, the next minute it wasn't,
and then I had a doctor comingin apologizing for the loss that
has occurred.
And these are the next steps.
(04:18):
And I just remember being inthe hospital at two o'clock in
the morning and just saying tomy ex-husband I need to get out
of here, I can't stay here, Ineed to leave Right Like I just
it was trauma in a state of fear, it was a state of you know, I
(04:40):
don't understand this.
There were so many thingsswirling around me.
He was able to make it happenthat I was able to get out of
there and I just felt like Icouldn't catch my breath for a
period of time because it wasjust so like unwinding and
unnerving.
And then you know, to goforward from that.
The interesting thing is everysingle year.
(05:03):
Whether I wanted to,deliberately or not, it came
back every single year, and that, too, was a journey, and even
though, like I have my kids,they're grown, and even though
you know all this time haspassed, there still isn't a year
that goes by that I don'tremember that.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, yeah, it is life after losses, just that
it's.
It's a new life that you haveto figure out how to navigate
through and figure out what youneed to do to either heal from
that or just maybe put morefocus on it, maybe put more
light on that.
You know more honor, more love.
I feel like that's either theone you know.
(05:50):
We try to just kind of like, ohwell, it's not significant, I
don't feel like people are goingto take it seriously, but but I
feel like it's just yourprocess, because that's your
life.
Then now, your life after loss.
And what does that look like?
How are you going to motherthat child?
Because there's still yourchild?
So, yeah, no, I totally getthat.
(06:11):
It doesn't.
It isn't like a okay, it's beentwo years, we're good, I'm fine
.
Now Nothing's going to triggerthat, it's it's forever.
So you just figure out how's mylife going to look now, after
this loss?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, and for for you .
I mean I'm you haven't said forsure, but I mean I'm assuming
that you have a very intimatestory as well that has brought
you to where you are today.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.
Yeah, I'm not even sure whereto do.
You want me to start from thebeginning.
If you would like to share,that's fine.
Okay, I would love to.
So, like I said, when my husband, sister, we were married for
three years, she had her firstchild.
(07:00):
My sister prior to that hadgiven natural childbirth for 52
hours and we were around her atthat time and that that really
made me feel like you know what.
Yeah, I definitely do not wantto go through that.
I do not want to go throughchildbirth.
But when my sister in law didshe, I saw like a different
(07:23):
hospital she was in, there wasjust a lot of things, and I said
, you know what?
I could see myself being ableto do this.
Something told me, like this isthe hospital, this is the
process, this feels safe andright.
So my husband and I went tofertility clinic because we just
didn't know.
Like he was told, when he was14, he had Kleinfelter syndrome,
(07:45):
which meant that he had anextra X chromosome and that will
typically make a male sterile.
So we kind of knew it wasn'tgoing to happen, but we knew
there were other options.
So let's just see what theoptions are.
So now fast forward, 15 yearsafter that.
They've come up with a lot ofdifferent processes, and one of
(08:09):
them is if we were to do IVFalong with him having surgery,
even if they could find apartial sperm, and they would
check everywhere they couldpossible in the tissue to see if
they could find.
So this is a pretty intensesurgery for him to go into,
(08:29):
because any other way they couldnot find any sperm, so they'd
have to go in surgically to seeif they could find anything.
So that gave us kind of a lotof hope.
I think that's probably thehardest part is because we went
into it thinking, okay, well,our options are going to be a
sperm donor or adoption, ormaybe something else that we
(08:54):
just haven't even thought of yet.
But for them to say, oh no, youguys might be able to have a
child, that's biologically bothof yours, was like not what we
expected.
At the same time, though, thefear of what both of us would
have to go through to get that,and it was still just a sheer,
(09:18):
at least small amount of hope.
I remember us getting in thecar after talking to the doctor,
and I just completely lost itand bawled my eyes out.
I'm thinking what we both aregoing to have to go through.
At that point I was veryholistic and I hadn't taken
medicine for over 10 yearsnothing, not an aspirin, nothing
(09:38):
.
I was like trying to keep mybody as clean as possible and
now I'm going to pump myselffull of all of these drugs and
go through all these, all thisprocess.
To me like it was going to be abig sacrifice.
Right To do that to my body andfor him to go through it and
(09:59):
then to know we could go throughall that and they might not
find any sperm.
It was just like ugh, we wantedthe baby, bad enough that we
said we're going to just do this, we're going to go through all
this testing, go through thewhole process.
So that was like in August andby January we were ready to go
(10:21):
ahead and go with the IVF cycle.
They did find a lot of stuffthat I needed additional
medications for that they wekind of went into it like well,
my husband's the one that'sgoing to be the focus of the
infertility.
But I had a lot of issuesaround my own infertility that I
had no clue about and that theydiscovered and I had this very
(10:44):
small window of being able to.
Even I was in my early 30s andthey said you're not going to
have a lot of years to do this,so we've got to get moving.
So the beginning of January, theyear that we were doing the IVF
, part of the process was thatif they went in and they did not
(11:05):
find any sperm, we had to havea donor ready and the doctors
were very much so do you haveanyone that is in your family
and my husband's side that couldhave that bloodline that would
be willing to do that?
And I mean we went through hisbrother.
We like mentally went throughwhat about your brother?
(11:27):
What about your uncle?
What about your dad?
What about?
And it just it didn't feelright for us.
It just felt too much of to asksomebody to do that and for
people who do that, like that ispure love.
I just we didn't want them.
We didn't feel comfortableasking anyone.
So we found a donor that wewere happy with.
(11:50):
That was very similar to myhusband.
We felt like it was a very goodmatch in reading all his
descriptions.
So we had that ready.
So we go through the process theday of he had his surgery and
then the next day I went in formy egg retrieval so they took
(12:13):
out all my eggs and I'm justcoming out of they had me in
like Twilight and I'm justcoming out and the doctor comes
in and they just said we didn'tfind anything.
And oh my gosh, it was like Ijust taken, like we had done the
first layer of this process andfor them to say and they were
(12:33):
the funny part was they werelike we're so optimistic.
But the doctor was like youthought that we would find
something.
And we were like well, yeah, ofcourse.
Like we just thought this wouldall just come together, like we
just didn't see it not working.
We thought you were going tofind, like to find one or
partial sperm, like it just inour brains was like of course
(12:54):
they're going to find something.
So it was just my mom and I thatday and it's kind of like what
you said.
I was like I got to get out ofhere.
I can't even call my husbandand his family and tell him this
.
Can we just like do a normalthing?
My mom's like I don't thinkthat's appropriate right now.
(13:15):
Like I think you should go homeand be with your husband and
talk to him and I said no, rightnow I just need to pretend like
none of this is happening,because in like a day or two I
got to go in and complete thisIVF and have this embryo
transferred.
You know, once that process wasready.
So we just went somewhere and Ijust kind of walked around and
(13:35):
was just trying to figure outlike how, like this, I don't
know, we just thought it allhappened for the reason in that
it was going to work, and nowit's going to look totally
different.
And though we kind of, you know, we already picked a donor, so
we already were prepared thatthat was a possibility, it just,
I don't know, it just didn'tseem like that was the way it
(13:57):
was going to turn out.
So we went home and it was.
Yeah, it was a rough couple daysbefore going in for the actual
transfer and we did have threeembryos that were transferred
and they were at differentstages.
They weren't totally as strongor as developed as they had
(14:19):
hoped, which is why they put inall three, cause they just were.
At that point the doctor was sodevastated just cause the loss
of like having to grieve that myhusband would never be able to
have biological children.
And then now he's just likethese embryos aren't as
promising as we had hoped, solet's just put all three in.
(14:39):
And it's very significant.
This three has followed me onmy journey thus far.
Everything is in threes.
So these were just at the timeI didn't realize that, but there
was a lot of significance inthose three embryos.
That then told a lot to mystory.
And so within 10 to 12 days theycall you with your blood work,
(15:02):
your blood flow.
They call you with your bloodwork to tell you if you're
pregnant.
And they called and they saidyour level is very low but it is
positive.
So you are technically pregnant, but it's very low.
And if it doesn't continue todouble then this will not be, it
will not progress into apregnancy or viability.
(15:25):
So I called my acupuncture.
I told her my numbers.
She's like oh no, this is a dud, this won't work.
Like, move on, this was afailure.
She was very blunt about it,where the doctor was like, no,
this is, we're still giving youmore hope, like, but we got a
positive, so anything couldhappen from here, but nothing
(15:50):
progressed.
Couple a little bit of ourlevels in our HCG 1F, but
nowhere enough that it wasconsidered like a good pregnancy
.
So yeah, so that was our firstpart of the journey.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
So, as you're talking through it, you can feel the
intensity and the emotion ofwhat you experienced.
And you know it's hard, becausewhat people don't understand, I
think for people who haven'tbeen through it, is that level
(16:28):
of intensity that you're goingthrough because you do put so
much weight into a possibilityyeah, yes.
So to have thosedisappointments their
disappointment isn't even theright word, because the grief
that goes along with it is soheavy that disappointment
(16:50):
doesn't even feel like the rightword to put on it.
And I think it's hard too,because it's not just something
that you're experiencing as awoman, but your husband also
experiences, and what heexperiences is a different kind
of experience than what women gothrough.
(17:12):
So I know you didn't really getto that yet, but that's
something during our timetogether.
If we could talk through that,that would be a great thing to
talk about too.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, I think you're right and I always forget that
and I think as women, we tend tofocus on our part and then
other women's part of thatjourney.
But I mean, he had more evasivesurgery and procedures than I
had, and he was in recovery andhe was dealing with the fact
(17:46):
that he had hope and now there'snothing right and like, yeah,
you forget, like what, what thatwas like for him.
So I think that's why Icouldn't tell him that day,
because I felt like I felt veryresponsible, like maybe if I had
just said let's adopt or let'sdo something else, like it's not
(18:09):
worth it.
But I definitely pushed him togo through, not that he didn't
want to, but I encouraged him,that it felt like it was meant
to be, like that they gave usthis opportunity because after
all those years, he was going tothen be able to have a child,
right, like it only happenedbecause of that.
(18:30):
And then to just say, no, youwent through all that and now
you have $20,000 of debt and youhave nothing.
You're left with nothing, likeyou know it.
Just, yeah, it was very hard,and even those two weeks like
people think it's funny, but Imean, we had those embryos, an
image of those embryos, framedit in front of our TV so that we
(18:53):
looked at them every day forthose two weeks and it's yes to
other people's two weeks, butfor us it was like those were
our three babies and thepossibility that we could have
three children or two or whatlike.
We just felt very like the oddswere really in our, in our
favor.
So it's two blows, like yeah,and it's like what, why like
(19:17):
what was?
Why?
Just don't even why did any ofthis happen?
Just felt like pointless.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, and where does your faith go?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So at that time it took a long time to like, even
until somebody even said do youhave faith in this process?
And from the beginning all theway towards the end, I had it
hadn't even occurred to me.
Hope was the only thing thatwas like a word that I could
(19:48):
focus on.
But I really didn't have anyfaith because I don't offer.
At that point I just felt likeI don't know.
I feel like my story up untilthat point of growing up I was
just trying, I was alwayswriting this like really heart
wrenching, really like I don'tknow it was hard to see the good
(20:10):
in, in what had come of my lifethat far.
So I don't think I ever had anyfaith that my life would look
differently or that I would beblessed with like.
I always had hope of that, butI never had faith in that.
My faith was there was none, Iwould say zero until somebody
told me that that was what wasmissing and then I had to
(20:34):
physically write it in my house,that word, because that's what
had been missing.
So it's very key that you saidthat, because that is the word
that I didn't even.
It was so far from my graspthat it didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So did that come in during this period of time where
you're going through theseexperiences?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Because the end of our process is when it finally
hit me.
I was going to a differentacupuncturist at the time and
she just was like you need faith, you need faith.
You got to like you're that'swhat's missing, that's what's
missing for you.
And I just said, yeah, but whatis it tied to?
I don't.
Who am I having faith in?
(21:20):
What am I having faith in?
Like I don't.
I don't feel like anybody owesme anything and I don't feel
like I deserve these good thingsto have.
You know, it just feels likeI'm the one of the, I'm the
person that has this like darkstory.
(21:41):
But if you were to meet me, youwouldn't know any of that.
I'm very good at displayingthat everything's been wonderful
.
I've never experiencedhardships.
I don't talk about it.
So to me it was like well,that's the story I've been
writing my whole life.
So why?
Why should this be anydifferent?
I can hope for something tochange, but do I have faith in
(22:02):
that?
No, like it's just going tocontinue being this dark story
that I just kind of putsomewhere else and continue just
acting like everything's great.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So it was in that moment that it kind of flipped a
switch for you where youstarted to shift gears.
And what did that look like foryou when you started to shift?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So I don't think it was still tied to anything my
faith, but the idea that I wasworthy to have it, if that makes
sense.
Like for the first timesomebody said you're allowed to
have faith, you're allowed tobelieve that you're deserving
Like.
For me, faith is like believingthat good, that some higher
(22:52):
being right, so that God feelslike you deserve to be handed
good in this world, right.
So at that time it was thefirst time I said like I am
worthy, but I don't know whothat faith, who is responsible,
you know, to have my faith in?
Where is my faith in?
(23:13):
Because I didn't know at thetime.
But for the first time I saidI'm missing this, I need this.
And it's taken up until thelast year for me to really tie
that to anything and for me tofeel the full impact of having
faith.
So yeah, but that would be soafter the IVF we're talking
(23:34):
three more years until I waseven confronted with that idea
of faith.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
So, and through that journey, I mean at some point,
you get pregnant.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, so we after the IVF, we had ordered two vials
from this donor In casesomething went wrong with the
one vial during IVF.
You don't want to have thatwhole cycle be a waste, so they
have.
You ordered two.
So we had one donor vial left.
So two months after the IVFfailed, I did.
(24:12):
I didn't have to do IVF anymorebecause my husband wasn't
involved.
Now, now we could just do asimple IUI, which is just some.
They still have you on meds andthey still track your cycle and
everything, but they're not,you know, doing anything outside
of you with the embryos.
That's just a very simple, easyprocess.
So two months later we try that.
(24:35):
We go through that first cycleand it didn't work.
And at that point, like we werelike we can't get like one more
blow here, like we literallywere done, like we can't do this
anymore, so exhausted.
But I just needed something inmy arms and I needed something
(24:57):
to love on and just I needed abreak.
So so we got like the cutest,smallest puppy we could possibly
have found and the day wepicked him up, she literally
bathed him and swaddled him likethey literally like they hand
you a newborn baby.
Even a picture I have I looklike a newborn baby with when
(25:21):
you have them on your chest inthe hospital.
I have that image.
I feel like my heart justneeded something to feel similar
to just getting something thatI could love on and raise, and
like something that my husband,I could, you know, kind of unify
us.
So for the next year, that'slike all we could do is just put
(25:42):
our focus in on something else.
We just couldn't continue to doit.
And then that samesister-in-law that had the baby
that made me kind of start thisprocess has her second baby.
Now I'm like Ugh, like I reallywant this still, like I'm not
ready to just be done, like Ijust let's just try again.
(26:06):
And we call to order more ofthe donor vial and they're
completely out of it and I waslike, are you kidding me?
Like this was our, this was theguy that we spent like months
and months finding that wasexactly like how are we going to
?
We have to go through thatwhole process again and I don't
(26:27):
think that people likeunderstand that when unless you
have to go through that becausethere's just all these levels of
just feeling like that's theright, especially if you're
doing an open donor, but thenyour child has the opportunity
to meet.
It's important to pick theright person and it's very
(26:48):
difficult.
So it takes a lot of researchand a lot of learning about them
to see who feels right.
So that was like a blow for us.
But we found another one.
We do a cycle Doesn't work.
I think we did one or two withthat donor.
We keep doing these cycles.
(27:09):
We did four more cycles and weare on like now it's been like a
whole year of in between theseprocesses because you might have
a cycle that doesn't go well,you don't have enough follicle,
just all the process throughthat.
So we're like at the end of theyear and I'm like I'm done with
(27:32):
this doctor, I don't want towalk into this fertility clinic
ever again.
Like I'm so done with this.
I'm so I need new, a new place.
I knew somebody else to look.
I said this is just we're notgetting anywhere and this is
just like blow after blow afterblow of not working.
And now we're on our fourthdonor.
So, like at this point we likehave no care, we're just like
(27:55):
whatever, like this really Idon't even care anymore who we
pick, because we keep going andthey run out and we can't afford
to buy more than one or two ata time.
Like you know, for that much ofmoney and investment we don't
want to just buy like 10 fromone donor.
So we just bought one for eachcycle and that was it.
And then by the time we wereready to do the next cycle,
they'd be out.
So we started with this otherdoctor and he just was
(28:21):
determined like I know exactlywhat's wrong with you, I know
exactly what I need to give youand you'll get pregnant right
away.
So we did a cycle with them inthe January following and we did
.
We got pregnant that firstcycle.
It was just like he was like amad scientist, like he wasn't a
(28:44):
fertility clinic per se, likehis degrees didn't match up with
what all the other you knowreputable places, but he just
had an idea of what he thoughthe could do for women that would
work, and people had gone tohim that had experienced eight
miscarriages and he got thempregnant multiple times.
(29:04):
So we had a lot of faith in him.
And then for that first cycleto work, we were like, okay, all
right, this was where we weremeant to be, this is the place
we were meant to go to.
So we went through that processand we found out.
It was so beautiful.
We found out on myfather-in-law's birthday so we
(29:27):
chose not to go out andcelebrate with him and the
family because I knew I'd betaking a pregnancy test that day
and I said, well, either, ifit's negative, I don't want to
be around.
Anybody Like.
I know that might not makesense to other people who are
like, ah, no big deal, you justtry again.
But for us it was like we'dhave to like mourn that for a
(29:50):
while every time we get thatnegative test.
So I just said, well, we'regoing to stay back today, but we
might be calling you with goodnews and if you don't hear from
us, then you know again, thisdidn't work.
So when we got the positivetest and were able to call him
and tell him his dad over thephone on his birthday that we
were finally pregnant, it was,like you know, the best day we
(30:11):
could have imagined and anythingthat kind of tied his family
into it more.
You know what I mean.
Just because it is such adifferent process for a lot of
people it's not something youlike talk about to end your
family.
So his family was so close withus in this process, so tying
them into it was just veryimportant to us.
(30:34):
So at like I think we went infor our second ultrasound and
the tech said she was looking atthe image and she just said you
know what I don't feel goodabout this.
There's something I see like inedema or some kind of fluid on
the back of the neck of the, onthe baby, and I want you guys to
go and to maternal fetalmedicine.
(30:56):
Like I'm going to refer you outearly from us just to get this
looked at because I haveconcerns.
So my husband was with me forthat ultrasound and we just went
in the parking lot and we'relike, are you kidding me?
Like so we've just been throughall this and now something's
(31:20):
wrong with this baby.
Like we just couldn't, wecouldn't comprehend that.
And the doctor there was like,well, you know, she might be
seen something.
It might not really be anything, it's early, you're probably
fine.
But the fact that she sawsomething that early, I mean we
had a feeling something waswrong.
So we were just like trying tomake sense of it all because
(31:44):
they couldn't tell you anything.
They don't know anything, theyjust she just knows what she saw
.
And she said I see somethingconcerning, and that's all I can
really tell you.
So right away we went and gotblood work done so that they
could see if there were anyissues.
And we went to maternal fetalmedicine.
They did a scan and theyconfirmed yes, we're seeing
(32:05):
exactly what that tech wasseeing.
And then it was like April.
So we started that cycle inJanuary.
So it was like April 29th atthis time and we got a call from
the, the doctor who had donethe blood work, and they just
said well, you're having a girl,and we know this because your
(32:32):
baby has Turner syndrome andwhat that means is that she's
missing an X chromosome.
And I was like, wait, what?
Like?
My husband has an extra Xchromosome.
He can't have kids because ofthat, and now we're having a
baby girl that is missing an X,like this, perfectly like.
(32:56):
It just seems so beautiful howthey fit together so wonderfully
like for already a relationshipthat might have been difficult
one, when she would find outthat he was not her biological
father but now had a diagnosisthat was this like the, the
female version of his like.
How can you not like those twocoming together.
(33:20):
It's just I don't know thatcall though.
It was difficult and I had noclue what Turner syndrome was.
As we realized what it was, wewere like, wow, she is like
literally perfect for us, andthe journey up into this point
was required to show, to make usshow up for this little girl
(33:42):
and know that this is not goingto be an easy journey.
She's probably going to be inand out of hospitals with heart
surgeries or all these hormonethings.
She's going to have a differentlife and she might not be able
to have kids of her own andthere's going to be a lot that
goes into this.
But we felt like, okay, hey,this is all coming together so
(34:03):
beautifully.
Um, so we just were.
It didn't really matter at thatpoint what the odds were.
We weren't even looking at thatof the survival rate.
Um, we just were like, wow, sheis Perfect, she is our big girl
.
Like this is what this wholeprocess was.
And then all kind of like thatwhole everything happens for a
(34:24):
reason thing was like she's ourreason, like she's the reason
that we had to go through allthat.
So so, yeah, she, and we hadalready picked out a girl name
and a boy name.
So our girl name was Audrey,after Audrey Hepburn, and so she
was our Audrey and we werealready signing cards from her
(34:46):
and yeah, we were just kind ofwe were in denial that anything
would go wrong, even though thepercentage is like less than
five, that she didn't make itthrough pregnancy.
But yeah, she just felt like itjust felt too good to just be
like what you're going to giveus this beautiful, beautiful
(35:08):
girl meant for us, and thenyou're going to take her from us
, like what is the point?
So, yeah, that's, that's thebeginning part.
So that was.
We found that out the end ofApril and then on Mother's Day,
it was my first Mother's Day.
(35:29):
So I was pregnant.
We had several ultrasounds inbetween then.
She kept getting sicker andsicker and more fluid building
up around her organs and herbody and nothing was looking
good and it was going to be anyweek that she would pass.
But for Mother's Day, I got myfirst Mother's Day.
(35:50):
She was alive and I celebratedwith all the other moms, but I
think it was at the same time.
I was like this is going to beme possibly my last Mother's Day
.
So there are parts about itthat were very beautiful.
(36:13):
Everybody was very supportiveof looking at me like a mother,
because that's another hardthing Like most women don't get
to celebrate Mother's Day untiltheir babies here in their arms,
whether that's a safeguard toprotect yourself, or people just
don't acknowledge you as amother until you're have a baby
alive in your arms, whateverthat is.
Everybody really supported thefact that I was a mother and
(36:39):
that I got to have that specialday.
So our wedding anniversary wasonly like a week after that.
It was May 22nd, and my husbandand I planned a dinner to go out
to celebrate our anniversary,because things were so difficult
and we knew pretty much any dayshe was going to pass and we're
just we're just kind of waitingfor her to die.
(37:03):
So I was at work and I startedbleeding and I was like, come on
, it's my anniversary.
Like why, today, you know, Ijust want this day to again
pretend like everything's goingto be fine and act like nothing
bad is going to happen.
But that was the day and as Iwas leaving, my boss was like oh
(37:24):
, I forgot to give you um, Ihave this book what to Expect
when You're Inspecting.
I forgot to give you the book.
Here you go, and I was like Iprobably don't need it, I think
I'm going to get it.
So I drove myself home and Icalled the doctor and they said
well, we can't see you tillWednesday to find out.
That's the next time we haveavailable for you to come in to
(37:47):
get an ultrasound.
So you may go into labor beforethen, which you may not, and
your baby might be okay.
The bleeding might be justnormal, you might be fine, but
we'll schedule you for Wednesday.
So I had to like go to workMonday, tuesday, and potentially
be carrying this daughter whohad passed away inside, and I
(38:11):
was 16 weeks then, so I wasstarting to show, and so people
were asking and, yeah, it wasjust like, okay, I'm going to be
in the hospital, I guess I'mstill have hope, maybe I don't
know.
And then we went in Wednesdayand they confirmed that there
(38:32):
was no heartbeat and they had todo measurements because she was
far enough along that it wasgoing to be close to whether or
not they would have to induce meand I'd have to give birth to
her, or if I could be put on thehospital I would have to give
birth to her, or if I could beput under and it's once you're
(38:53):
further along, it's called a DNE, so it's a little bit more
evasive, and but then wewouldn't get to see her and I
wouldn't know what had happened.
It would just be I go in and Iwalk out and she's gone.
So within that span of fiveminutes of being given my
options, I have to decide what Iwanted to, because if they're
(39:15):
going to schedule which one,they've got to schedule it right
away, because the longer youwait, your body will naturally
just go into labor.
And if I didn't want to choosethat, I'd have to choose very
fast if the next day I'd beready to do a DNE.
And so I just like, how do you,how do you decide what to do?
(39:39):
Like, how do I have this?
I don't even know.
Like, literally my biggest fearis giving birth, and now I'm
going to give birth to a babythat's not even living.
Like I don't know, I justcouldn't.
But at the same time I justsaid well, can I see her?
If I'm being put under?
(40:00):
Like, how can I?
Like no, like you don't reallyunderstand what we're doing.
There's no saying her.
There is basically no her bythe time we get everything out
of you and that just like, howdo you decide?
So I just said, just put meunder.
I just I want this to be allover with.
I want to be done with thisbecause I'm a.
(40:24):
I'm very scared that if I givebirth to her, then that's it.
I'll never want to go.
I mean, if I've already gotthis big fear of giving birth,
I'm pretty much that's it.
There's no hope of me everwanting to try again.
So that's what I decided.
But it was so devastating toeven like say that because it
was so much like like I don'twant to see her, like I'm
(40:44):
telling her, like you're notsignificant enough for me to go
through that to see you and holdyou.
So just the thought that shewould see or feel that way, I
just felt like a horrible mother, like choosing myself over her.
Yeah, I don't even know it's.
(41:04):
I don't know how I feel aboutit still to this day and what it
would look like if we went.
But that's where I was at inthe five minutes I was given
like okay, and I was.
I was like I don't know, Idon't know how I feel about it.
I don't know how I feel aboutit, but I was like okay, and
what it would look like if wewent.
But that's where I was at in thefive minutes I was given, like
okay, and I was honestly I knewI had 12 hours until we'd have
(41:29):
to go in to have this.
So there were 12 hours and ifshe had really passed that
Friday before there was time, ifshe was meant to be in my arms
then she would come early.
So I just kind of left it up tothat like I'm going to schedule
this and whatever will happenin between this time.
But that night I didn't sleeplike at all because I'm just
waiting for her to get ready togo into labor and once my body
(41:54):
had started going to labor thatthey'd have to call off the DNA.
So just waiting for that tohappen and then not to have that
choice anymore.
So, yeah, we went in and when Iwas in the room about to go and
have the DNA, this group SheriffLancaster, where we had lived,
(42:15):
they came in and they asked ifthey could take her remains and
include it in a shared burialwith all babies from that two
month period and we'd have aplace to go and visit her and
we'd be able to be involved inthe organization and be able to
honor her and have her nameinvolved in all their ceremonies
, and and I for somebody toacknowledge her remains as
(42:44):
significant, when I had justkind of kind of let that part, I
kind of ignored that part,thinking that I was either going
to be able to hold her and thenthose remains would be
significant, but they still feltthat, even with the DNA, that
her remains were significantenough to be included and that's
just was such a blessing thatthey so so needed and so so
(43:09):
impactful to us.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It's so beautiful the the opportunity to be able to
have a place to visit and reallyspend time and just be in a
space of healing and grievingand acknowledgement.
There's so many things there.
For myself, I I didn't havethat experience where I was able
(43:37):
to give birth because it was anemergency situation, and that's
something I know a lot of womengo through.
But then it's also the struggleof grieving, not having
something to say goodbye to.
Yeah, and a lot of women I knowgo through that.
I mean just through my journey.
(43:58):
I think that's one of the mostdifficult things, because when
you don't have something to saygoodbye to, it doesn't.
It's not that it doesn't feelreal, it's very real, but for
the rest of the world it's notso real.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, I almost feel like I'm not sure if I would
have changed the process, but Ifeel like if I had an image of
her and I had her in my arms andpeople would make her
meaningful and make her real.
You know, but by not havingthat, somehow it's just like
(44:40):
never happened and it's notallowed to be significant enough
because there wasn't everanything that people could see
as proof that she existed, youknow so, yeah, you're right,
it's so hard and the I thinkthat's where a lot of the, the
head stuff comes from of notknowing what to choose is.
(45:02):
Will people take this seriously?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, and whether knowingly or unknowingly, I'm
not sure if you even realizethis when you said it, but when
you talk about your anniversary,it's a time where a marriage,
(45:24):
you know, is where two peopleare fully committing themselves
and you know they're probablythe closest that they'll ever be
in their union.
As far as you know, gettingmarried in that special day and
celebrating that time, you andyour husband were celebrating
(45:44):
that closeness right like you,you don't have that same kind of
closeness day in and day outthroughout the year, but that
special day where it'sacknowledging the love that you
two share Again, I see itabsolutely being so beautiful
that that is the day because shewanted that connection and that
(46:08):
was the day you were so deeplyconnected as a family.
It's absolutely beautiful.
There's so much to your storythat it is almost like it was
manuscript by God, by a higherpower.
(46:29):
You know, just because there'sso much that I mean how else do
you describe it?
How else do you even put wordson it?
I mean it feels like the handhas been in it, you know,
through this process, but thennot only through this process,
(46:49):
but just touching you and havingto place you in a space where
we're going to take you fromthis intimate place of what
mothers go through and we'regoing to put you in a space
where we're going to help youconnect with other women who
understand this kind of pain.
(47:10):
And now you're going to serveas a conduit for healing and
support and giving them guidanceas far as where they can go to
connect, for the support or not,to not to feel like they're on
an island by themselvesexperiencing this, because a lot
(47:31):
of women it does feel verylonely.
It does feel very lonely and ifyou don't have someone who's
alongside of you, it is hard,it's very hard, and that that
person being alongside of you, Imean.
There's a lot of women who arein relationships and maybe
they're not in supportiverelationships, maybe they're not
(47:54):
able to have those intimateconversations with their partner
, or maybe they're living athousand miles away from family
where they don't have someone togo to, like their mom or their
sister or you know somebody likethat.
One of the things that you havementioned that I think it's
(48:15):
really important we talk abouttoo, is you had talked about
your family and you had talkedabout.
You didn't say it, you couldfeel it when you were talking
about it was this pressure?
Because there was another kidcoming into the family and you
know, and it's like, okay, sothe family is getting bigger and
(48:40):
you're surrounded almost withthis like microscope on you, not
by the family per se, but morewhere it's self-imposed because
you're going through all of this.
But then it's almost like, well, hey, I want that, but I'm
(49:01):
almost like mad that it's soeasy for you, right, yeah, can
you talk to that piece a littlebit?
Because right now, somewhere inthe world, there's a woman
listening to this interview andshe's probably thinking I don't
know what to do with this.
I don't know what to do withthese feelings.
(49:22):
I don't know how not to feelwhat I feel or what this is.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
I think I stopped seeing it and now I can see this
.
Heartbreak and loss is ahardship, right, and that's what
life is.
We just go from hardship tohardship to hardship right Just
because someone's hardship isn'taround their infertility or
(49:53):
their loss.
It might be a loss of theirparent, it might be they just
can't.
Their partner is not loving andsupportive, and I think what
you have to focus on is you'renot.
I think it's so hard is that weassume that we're all meant to
be able to have children andit's supposed to be easy, that
(50:15):
it's just how it is right.
But it's just your area and yourpersonal hardship.
You can't write everybody'shardships to be the same.
Everybody's journey is uniqueto them.
So where they've struggledmonetarily, with relationships,
(50:36):
with feeling alone, maybe youdidn't have those hardships
right and you took them forgranted.
You've had a loving andsupportive partner and you took
that for granted becausesomebody else has five kids, but
they're in a really, reallyhard relationship and a really
dark place in that part of theirlife.
So don't you're not beingpunished in any way.
(50:59):
It's just that's the hardshipyou've been dealt.
It's just kind of like the cardthat you're dealt that is going
to get you to a differentjourney and it's going to be a
different path, but that's wherethat's what's going to take you
.
That's like your high mountainthat you have to climb.
You know some of your life itwas kind of easy, you know you
coasted through a bunch of stuffand you took it for granted.
(51:21):
This is your high mountain butit has the best view and it's
worth just keep climbing becausewhen you do reach that there's
there's a different gratitudeyou have when you do actually
have that child, whatever thatjourney ends up looking like.
But when you have that child,you're going to look at that
(51:43):
baby a whole lot different andnot to say that it's a different
love, you just are going tolook at it with a different
appreciation than maybe anothermother who that part was just
kind of handed to her veryeasily.
You know, having kids neverexperienced a loss, but for you
you really you climbed thatmountain and you just never gave
up.
And when you look at that child, it's just it's worth every
(52:07):
single hardship to get you tothat.
But it's yeah, don't think ofit like why am I being punished
in this thing that everybodyelse can do so easily.
It's just that's yourparticular hardship.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
I love.
What you said, too in the verybeginning is that you can create
your family whatever way you'dlike, as far as what it looks
like.
So for some women they may notbe able to have a baby, but they
could adopt, and if it becomesyou know too much, maybe it's
(52:44):
just pseudo adopting someoneelse's child for a period of
time, or adopting a pet orwhatever it looks like.
Whatever you can handle, and Ithink that's really important.
And I am reminded of a situationthat a couple of weeks ago I
(53:06):
was in a store and I was lookingfor a greeting card and on the
other side of the aisle I heartwo women talking, and one of
the women is talking aboutsomebody at work had lost a baby
and she wanted to get a card.
And the other woman said well,why would you do that?
(53:28):
Why would you do that?
Why would you send this woman acard?
And she said because if I hadlost a baby, I would want a card
.
And I thought that was reallybeautiful, that this person was
taking the time to acknowledgethis woman in this way.
(53:48):
And I just wonder for you,rachel, what do you suggest for
people if they know somebodywho's lost a baby.
What do you tell people that ishelpful for them to help
someone through it?
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Just any time you have the opportunity, as long as
they're willing, just let themknow that you're thinking about
them and you're thinking aboutthat baby specifically and
acknowledging the significanceof that baby whether that baby
passed at four weeks, five weeks, like there's no, there's no
gauge on when that baby wassignificant, because it was
(54:27):
significant and, I think, justacknowledging the loss.
And then there's so manyspecific days within the year
that you can honor people whohave gone through a loss.
Just by October 15th, at 7pm,across the world everyone lights
a candle in memories of all thebabies that have been lost and
(54:49):
that means that across the world, for an entire day, there's
light for all those babies.
If it's that simple in saying,hey, I lit a candle for your
baby, I'm thinking of you today,or I saw this bird and it just
give light to it and just talkabout it and just say, hey, I
think about you and I thinkabout your baby.
(55:11):
Because that's what is so hardis that you feel like either one
it's not allowed to besignificant, or that that
child's going to be forgotten,or that you're going to make
people feel uncomfortable if youtalk about it.
But as a mother, that's like somuch joy and people just to you
know, I still my grandma boughtme an Audrey Hepburn painting
(55:35):
and she said I didn't know ifyou would like it.
You know, I didn't know likehow it would make you feel, what
it make you upset, what it makeyou mind you have Audrey.
And I said, no, absolutely likethat, just the fact that you
looked at that and you thoughtof me and you thought of my baby
girl, like just whatever youcan do to say, hey, I'm thinking
of you, I love you, I love youknow, whatever I can do to
(55:56):
support you, it's just reallyimportant.
And just remembering thosedates maybe the day that they
lost the baby, or that due datethat was going to be that baby's
potential birthday, those dates, it's very significant.
We hold a lot.
You never forget those days.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
Because, yeah, so true, and I could talk to you on
and on and on, and I know we'regetting you know short on time,
but I thank you so much forsharing your story and I mean
it's a powerful story and you'rejust doing so so much to put
light into the world for thesefamilies and these women and you
(56:36):
are such a blessing and it'sjust beautiful what you're doing
.
I do have one last question.
If I ask all my, all my guestspeakers, if I were to find your
earth angel feather on theground and I picked it up, what
would your message to the worldbe?
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I feel like around loss is just to show love.
Just to show love to those, toeveryone, not just the people
that are physically here, but toshow love for those have passed
, whether it be a baby or amother or a grandparent or an
(57:18):
animal, anything, just all thatwe do with love, and and I can't
begin to tell you how much lovewill flood your life and how
overwhelmed you will be infeeling that love back, if
that's your focus.
It's this beautiful cycle.
So, just before you do anything, just do it with love.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
And that is so beautiful.
Rachel, have a very happyMother's Day.
Yes, thank you, you too, thankyou, and that's all we have time
for today.
This is Catherine Daniels, withRetreat to Peace, reminding you
to live your authentic lifewith peace.
And, as always, retreat toPeace, we will see you next time
(58:03):
.
Thank you so much for being here with me.
We know that we're livingthrough some crazy times and we
know the world is changing, solet's create a bridge as we come
together one another, removingall of our labels and just being
together as one people in oneworld as we do this.
This is why our signature talktoday Journey to Motherhood
(00:34):
through Infertility and Loss isso, so important.
We have a series of talksspecific to mothers, and this is
a very, very special talk, andI'm so honored and privileged to
have my guest speaker, rachelDelacrosse.
Hi, rachel, hi, how are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much for beinghere with me.
(00:54):
I know this is a really toughtopic for women, so I'm so
grateful and filled withgratitude that you can be here
and if you could just take amoment and just introduce
yourself and share a little bitabout who you are, how you got
here and let the world know whyyou're so special to this.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yes.
So I'll start with just meetingmy husband.
When we met he had told me thathe would not most likely not be
able to have any kids and atthe time most of his
relationships would not havegone anywhere after that because
(01:39):
most people, that would havebeen a real hard thing for them
to be able to handle.
But for me, I was scared todeath of the idea of getting
pregnant and having a baby.
That was probably my biggestfear up until that point, the
idea of that whole process.
So we were like, wow, we'repretty perfect together.
(02:01):
I don't have to worry aboutgetting pregnant, we have this
nice journey.
So came together.
I feel like that way, and astime went on, we knew we wanted
to be parents.
So our journey just kind ofstarted with what are our
options and yeah, so that's kindof how it began, and then all
(02:25):
of the details to follow.
And now I'm a stay at homemother.
I've started support groups forwomen that are going on their
journey journey to motherhoodbecause everybody's journey
looks different.
Some are unexpected journeys,some are difficult journeys,
some just never come togetherthe way that you thought they
(02:47):
would.
So to give love and support towomen going through that has
been my focus and that's whereI'm at, and by sharing my story,
I feel like that givesopportunity to let people know
that they're not alone, likethere's so many people with so
many experiences that you don'thave to give up, like it might
look different than what youthought, but you don't have to
(03:07):
give up on being a parent.
You just don't.
There's so many options.
Even if you're a pet parent,you're still like there's so
many options.
You just have to change yourlens and just determine what you
want to do and how you want toget there.
So that's my focus now is justhow can I love and support women
on their journey and throughall their experiences and
(03:29):
network them with other womenthat had similar experiences to
give them individual support.
So that's where my heart's at.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I love all that and I can relate to you in so many
ways.
I personally have gone throughbereavement and loss of a baby
and that was one of the things Ithink was so difficult because
in my experience, you know I waspregnant, everything was going
(03:57):
okay and then all of a suddenthere was this grinding halt and
I ended up being in thehospital and literally it was
like one minute everything wasokay, the next minute it wasn't,
and then I had a doctor comingin apologizing for the loss that
has occurred.
And these are the next steps.
(04:18):
And I just remember being inthe hospital at two o'clock in
the morning and just saying tomy ex-husband I need to get out
of here, I can't stay here, Ineed to leave Right Like I just
it was trauma in a state of fear, it was a state of you know, I
(04:40):
don't understand this.
There were so many thingsswirling around me.
He was able to make it happenthat I was able to get out of
there and I just felt like Icouldn't catch my breath for a
period of time because it wasjust so like unwinding and
unnerving.
And then you know, to goforward from that.
The interesting thing is everysingle year.
(05:03):
Whether I wanted to,deliberately or not, it came
back every single year, and that, too, was a journey, and even
though, like I have my kids,they're grown, and even though
you know all this time haspassed, there still isn't a year
that goes by that I don'tremember that.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, yeah, it is life after losses, just that
it's.
It's a new life that you haveto figure out how to navigate
through and figure out what youneed to do to either heal from
that or just maybe put morefocus on it, maybe put more
light on that.
You know more honor, more love.
I feel like that's either theone you know.
(05:50):
We try to just kind of like, ohwell, it's not significant, I
don't feel like people are goingto take it seriously, but but I
feel like it's just yourprocess, because that's your
life.
Then now, your life after loss.
And what does that look like?
How are you going to motherthat child?
Because there's still yourchild?
So, yeah, no, I totally getthat.
(06:11):
It doesn't.
It isn't like a okay, it's beentwo years, we're good, I'm fine
.
Now Nothing's going to triggerthat, it's it's forever.
So you just figure out how's mylife going to look now, after
this loss?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yeah, and for for you .
I mean I'm you haven't said forsure, but I mean I'm assuming
that you have a very intimatestory as well that has brought
you to where you are today.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.
Yeah, I'm not even sure whereto do.
You want me to start from thebeginning.
If you would like to share,that's fine.
Okay, I would love to.
So, like I said, when my husband, sister, we were married for
three years, she had her firstchild.
(07:00):
My sister prior to that hadgiven natural childbirth for 52
hours and we were around her atthat time and that that really
made me feel like you know what.
Yeah, I definitely do not wantto go through that.
I do not want to go throughchildbirth.
But when my sister in law didshe, I saw like a different
(07:23):
hospital she was in, there wasjust a lot of things, and I said
, you know what?
I could see myself being ableto do this.
Something told me, like this isthe hospital, this is the
process, this feels safe andright.
So my husband and I went tofertility clinic because we just
didn't know.
Like he was told, when he was14, he had Kleinfelter syndrome,
(07:45):
which meant that he had anextra X chromosome and that will
typically make a male sterile.
So we kind of knew it wasn'tgoing to happen, but we knew
there were other options.
So let's just see what theoptions are.
So now fast forward, 15 yearsafter that.
They've come up with a lot ofdifferent processes, and one of
(08:09):
them is if we were to do IVFalong with him having surgery,
even if they could find apartial sperm, and they would
check everywhere they couldpossible in the tissue to see if
they could find.
So this is a pretty intensesurgery for him to go into,
(08:29):
because any other way they couldnot find any sperm, so they'd
have to go in surgically to seeif they could find anything.
So that gave us kind of a lotof hope.
I think that's probably thehardest part is because we went
into it thinking, okay, well,our options are going to be a
sperm donor or adoption, ormaybe something else that we
(08:54):
just haven't even thought of yet.
But for them to say, oh no, youguys might be able to have a
child, that's biologically bothof yours, was like not what we
expected.
At the same time, though, thefear of what both of us would
have to go through to get that,and it was still just a sheer,
(09:18):
at least small amount of hope.
I remember us getting in thecar after talking to the doctor,
and I just completely lost itand bawled my eyes out.
I'm thinking what we both aregoing to have to go through.
At that point I was veryholistic and I hadn't taken
medicine for over 10 yearsnothing, not an aspirin, nothing
(09:38):
.
I was like trying to keep mybody as clean as possible and
now I'm going to pump myselffull of all of these drugs and
go through all these, all thisprocess.
To me like it was going to be abig sacrifice.
Right To do that to my body andfor him to go through it and
(09:59):
then to know we could go throughall that and they might not
find any sperm.
It was just like ugh, we wantedthe baby, bad enough that we
said we're going to just do this, we're going to go through all
this testing, go through thewhole process.
So that was like in August andby January we were ready to go
(10:21):
ahead and go with the IVF cycle.
They did find a lot of stuffthat I needed additional
medications for that they wekind of went into it like well,
my husband's the one that'sgoing to be the focus of the
infertility.
But I had a lot of issuesaround my own infertility that I
had no clue about and that theydiscovered and I had this very
(10:44):
small window of being able to.
Even I was in my early 30s andthey said you're not going to
have a lot of years to do this,so we've got to get moving.
So the beginning of January, theyear that we were doing the IVF
, part of the process was thatif they went in and they did not
(11:05):
find any sperm, we had to havea donor ready and the doctors
were very much so do you haveanyone that is in your family
and my husband's side that couldhave that bloodline that would
be willing to do that?
And I mean we went through hisbrother.
We like mentally went throughwhat about your brother?
(11:27):
What about your uncle?
What about your dad?
What about?
And it just it didn't feelright for us.
It just felt too much of to asksomebody to do that and for
people who do that, like that ispure love.
I just we didn't want them.
We didn't feel comfortableasking anyone.
So we found a donor that wewere happy with.
(11:50):
That was very similar to myhusband.
We felt like it was a very goodmatch in reading all his
descriptions.
So we had that ready.
So we go through the process theday of he had his surgery and
then the next day I went in formy egg retrieval so they took
(12:13):
out all my eggs and I'm justcoming out of they had me in
like Twilight and I'm justcoming out and the doctor comes
in and they just said we didn'tfind anything.
And oh my gosh, it was like Ijust taken, like we had done the
first layer of this process andfor them to say and they were
(12:33):
the funny part was they werelike we're so optimistic.
But the doctor was like youthought that we would find
something.
And we were like well, yeah, ofcourse.
Like we just thought this wouldall just come together, like we
just didn't see it not working.
We thought you were going tofind, like to find one or
partial sperm, like it just inour brains was like of course
(12:54):
they're going to find something.
So it was just my mom and I thatday and it's kind of like what
you said.
I was like I got to get out ofhere.
I can't even call my husbandand his family and tell him this
.
Can we just like do a normalthing?
My mom's like I don't thinkthat's appropriate right now.
(13:15):
Like I think you should go homeand be with your husband and
talk to him and I said no, rightnow I just need to pretend like
none of this is happening,because in like a day or two I
got to go in and complete thisIVF and have this embryo
transferred.
You know, once that process wasready.
So we just went somewhere and Ijust kind of walked around and
(13:35):
was just trying to figure outlike how, like this, I don't
know, we just thought it allhappened for the reason in that
it was going to work, and nowit's going to look totally
different.
And though we kind of, you know, we already picked a donor, so
we already were prepared thatthat was a possibility, it just,
I don't know, it just didn'tseem like that was the way it
(13:57):
was going to turn out.
So we went home and it was.
Yeah, it was a rough couple daysbefore going in for the actual
transfer and we did have threeembryos that were transferred
and they were at differentstages.
They weren't totally as strongor as developed as they had
(14:19):
hoped, which is why they put inall three, cause they just were.
At that point the doctor was sodevastated just cause the loss
of like having to grieve that myhusband would never be able to
have biological children.
And then now he's just likethese embryos aren't as
promising as we had hoped, solet's just put all three in.
(14:39):
And it's very significant.
This three has followed me onmy journey thus far.
Everything is in threes.
So these were just at the timeI didn't realize that, but there
was a lot of significance inthose three embryos.
That then told a lot to mystory.
And so within 10 to 12 days theycall you with your blood work,
(15:02):
your blood flow.
They call you with your bloodwork to tell you if you're
pregnant.
And they called and they saidyour level is very low but it is
positive.
So you are technically pregnant, but it's very low.
And if it doesn't continue todouble then this will not be, it
will not progress into apregnancy or viability.
(15:25):
So I called my acupuncture.
I told her my numbers.
She's like oh no, this is a dud, this won't work.
Like, move on, this was afailure.
She was very blunt about it,where the doctor was like, no,
this is, we're still giving youmore hope, like, but we got a
positive, so anything couldhappen from here, but nothing
(15:50):
progressed.
Couple a little bit of ourlevels in our HCG 1F, but
nowhere enough that it wasconsidered like a good pregnancy
.
So yeah, so that was our firstpart of the journey.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
So, as you're talking through it, you can feel the
intensity and the emotion ofwhat you experienced.
And you know it's hard, becausewhat people don't understand, I
think for people who haven'tbeen through it, is that level
(16:28):
of intensity that you're goingthrough because you do put so
much weight into a possibilityyeah, yes.
So to have thosedisappointments their
disappointment isn't even theright word, because the grief
that goes along with it is soheavy that disappointment
(16:50):
doesn't even feel like the rightword to put on it.
And I think it's hard too,because it's not just something
that you're experiencing as awoman, but your husband also
experiences, and what heexperiences is a different kind
of experience than what women gothrough.
(17:12):
So I know you didn't really getto that yet, but that's
something during our timetogether.
If we could talk through that,that would be a great thing to
talk about too.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Yeah, I think you're right and I always forget that
and I think as women, we tend tofocus on our part and then
other women's part of thatjourney.
But I mean, he had more evasivesurgery and procedures than I
had, and he was in recovery andhe was dealing with the fact
(17:46):
that he had hope and now there'snothing right and like, yeah,
you forget, like what, what thatwas like for him.
So I think that's why Icouldn't tell him that day,
because I felt like I felt veryresponsible, like maybe if I had
just said let's adopt or let'sdo something else, like it's not
(18:09):
worth it.
But I definitely pushed him togo through, not that he didn't
want to, but I encouraged him,that it felt like it was meant
to be, like that they gave usthis opportunity because after
all those years, he was going tothen be able to have a child,
right, like it only happenedbecause of that.
(18:30):
And then to just say, no, youwent through all that and now
you have $20,000 of debt and youhave nothing.
You're left with nothing, likeyou know it.
Just, yeah, it was very hard,and even those two weeks like
people think it's funny, but Imean, we had those embryos, an
image of those embryos, framedit in front of our TV so that we
(18:53):
looked at them every day forthose two weeks and it's yes to
other people's two weeks, butfor us it was like those were
our three babies and thepossibility that we could have
three children or two or whatlike.
We just felt very like the oddswere really in our, in our
favor.
So it's two blows, like yeah,and it's like what, why like
(19:17):
what was?
Why?
Just don't even why did any ofthis happen?
Just felt like pointless.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, and where does your faith go?
Speaker 2 (19:27):
So at that time it took a long time to like, even
until somebody even said do youhave faith in this process?
And from the beginning all theway towards the end, I had it
hadn't even occurred to me.
Hope was the only thing thatwas like a word that I could
(19:48):
focus on.
But I really didn't have anyfaith because I don't offer.
At that point I just felt likeI don't know.
I feel like my story up untilthat point of growing up I was
just trying, I was alwayswriting this like really heart
wrenching, really like I don'tknow it was hard to see the good
(20:10):
in, in what had come of my lifethat far.
So I don't think I ever had anyfaith that my life would look
differently or that I would beblessed with like.
I always had hope of that, butI never had faith in that.
My faith was there was none, Iwould say zero until somebody
told me that that was what wasmissing and then I had to
(20:34):
physically write it in my house,that word, because that's what
had been missing.
So it's very key that you saidthat, because that is the word
that I didn't even.
It was so far from my graspthat it didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
So did that come in during this period of time where
you're going through theseexperiences?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Because the end of our process is when it finally
hit me.
I was going to a differentacupuncturist at the time and
she just was like you need faith, you need faith.
You got to like you're that'swhat's missing, that's what's
missing for you.
And I just said, yeah, but whatis it tied to?
I don't.
Who am I having faith in?
(21:20):
What am I having faith in?
Like I don't.
I don't feel like anybody owesme anything and I don't feel
like I deserve these good thingsto have.
You know, it just feels likeI'm the one of the, I'm the
person that has this like darkstory.
(21:41):
But if you were to meet me, youwouldn't know any of that.
I'm very good at displayingthat everything's been wonderful
.
I've never experiencedhardships.
I don't talk about it.
So to me it was like well,that's the story I've been
writing my whole life.
So why?
Why should this be anydifferent?
I can hope for something tochange, but do I have faith in
(22:02):
that?
No, like it's just going tocontinue being this dark story
that I just kind of putsomewhere else and continue just
acting like everything's great.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So it was in that moment that it kind of flipped a
switch for you where youstarted to shift gears.
And what did that look like foryou when you started to shift?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So I don't think it was still tied to anything my
faith, but the idea that I wasworthy to have it, if that makes
sense.
Like for the first timesomebody said you're allowed to
have faith, you're allowed tobelieve that you're deserving
Like.
For me, faith is like believingthat good, that some higher
(22:52):
being right, so that God feelslike you deserve to be handed
good in this world, right.
So at that time it was thefirst time I said like I am
worthy, but I don't know whothat faith, who is responsible,
you know, to have my faith in?
Where is my faith in?
(23:13):
Because I didn't know at thetime.
But for the first time I saidI'm missing this, I need this.
And it's taken up until thelast year for me to really tie
that to anything and for me tofeel the full impact of having
faith.
So yeah, but that would be soafter the IVF we're talking
(23:34):
three more years until I waseven confronted with that idea
of faith.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
So, and through that journey, I mean at some point,
you get pregnant.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, so we after the IVF, we had ordered two vials
from this donor In casesomething went wrong with the
one vial during IVF.
You don't want to have thatwhole cycle be a waste, so they
have.
You ordered two.
So we had one donor vial left.
So two months after the IVFfailed, I did.
(24:12):
I didn't have to do IVF anymorebecause my husband wasn't
involved.
Now, now we could just do asimple IUI, which is just some.
They still have you on meds andthey still track your cycle and
everything, but they're not,you know, doing anything outside
of you with the embryos.
That's just a very simple, easyprocess.
So two months later we try that.
(24:35):
We go through that first cycleand it didn't work.
And at that point, like we werelike we can't get like one more
blow here, like we literallywere done, like we can't do this
anymore, so exhausted.
But I just needed something inmy arms and I needed something
(24:57):
to love on and just I needed abreak.
So so we got like the cutest,smallest puppy we could possibly
have found and the day wepicked him up, she literally
bathed him and swaddled him likethey literally like they hand
you a newborn baby.
Even a picture I have I looklike a newborn baby with when
(25:21):
you have them on your chest inthe hospital.
I have that image.
I feel like my heart justneeded something to feel similar
to just getting something thatI could love on and raise, and
like something that my husband,I could, you know, kind of unify
us.
So for the next year, that'slike all we could do is just put
(25:42):
our focus in on something else.
We just couldn't continue to doit.
And then that samesister-in-law that had the baby
that made me kind of start thisprocess has her second baby.
Now I'm like Ugh, like I reallywant this still, like I'm not
ready to just be done, like Ijust let's just try again.
(26:06):
And we call to order more ofthe donor vial and they're
completely out of it and I waslike, are you kidding me?
Like this was our, this was theguy that we spent like months
and months finding that wasexactly like how are we going to
?
We have to go through thatwhole process again and I don't
(26:27):
think that people likeunderstand that when unless you
have to go through that becausethere's just all these levels of
just feeling like that's theright, especially if you're
doing an open donor, but thenyour child has the opportunity
to meet.
It's important to pick theright person and it's very
(26:48):
difficult.
So it takes a lot of researchand a lot of learning about them
to see who feels right.
So that was like a blow for us.
But we found another one.
We do a cycle Doesn't work.
I think we did one or two withthat donor.
We keep doing these cycles.
(27:09):
We did four more cycles and weare on like now it's been like a
whole year of in between theseprocesses because you might have
a cycle that doesn't go well,you don't have enough follicle,
just all the process throughthat.
So we're like at the end of theyear and I'm like I'm done with
(27:32):
this doctor, I don't want towalk into this fertility clinic
ever again.
Like I'm so done with this.
I'm so I need new, a new place.
I knew somebody else to look.
I said this is just we're notgetting anywhere and this is
just like blow after blow afterblow of not working.
And now we're on our fourthdonor.
So, like at this point we likehave no care, we're just like
(27:55):
whatever, like this really Idon't even care anymore who we
pick, because we keep going andthey run out and we can't afford
to buy more than one or two ata time.
Like you know, for that much ofmoney and investment we don't
want to just buy like 10 fromone donor.
So we just bought one for eachcycle and that was it.
And then by the time we wereready to do the next cycle,
they'd be out.
So we started with this otherdoctor and he just was
(28:21):
determined like I know exactlywhat's wrong with you, I know
exactly what I need to give youand you'll get pregnant right
away.
So we did a cycle with them inthe January following and we did
.
We got pregnant that firstcycle.
It was just like he was like amad scientist, like he wasn't a
(28:44):
fertility clinic per se, likehis degrees didn't match up with
what all the other you knowreputable places, but he just
had an idea of what he thoughthe could do for women that would
work, and people had gone tohim that had experienced eight
miscarriages and he got thempregnant multiple times.
(29:04):
So we had a lot of faith in him.
And then for that first cycleto work, we were like, okay, all
right, this was where we weremeant to be, this is the place
we were meant to go to.
So we went through that processand we found out.
It was so beautiful.
We found out on myfather-in-law's birthday so we
(29:27):
chose not to go out andcelebrate with him and the
family because I knew I'd betaking a pregnancy test that day
and I said, well, either, ifit's negative, I don't want to
be around.
Anybody Like.
I know that might not makesense to other people who are
like, ah, no big deal, you justtry again.
But for us it was like we'dhave to like mourn that for a
(29:50):
while every time we get thatnegative test.
So I just said, well, we'regoing to stay back today, but we
might be calling you with goodnews and if you don't hear from
us, then you know again, thisdidn't work.
So when we got the positivetest and were able to call him
and tell him his dad over thephone on his birthday that we
were finally pregnant, it was,like you know, the best day we
(30:11):
could have imagined and anythingthat kind of tied his family
into it more.
You know what I mean.
Just because it is such adifferent process for a lot of
people it's not something youlike talk about to end your
family.
So his family was so close withus in this process, so tying
them into it was just veryimportant to us.
(30:34):
So at like I think we went infor our second ultrasound and
the tech said she was looking atthe image and she just said you
know what I don't feel goodabout this.
There's something I see like inedema or some kind of fluid on
the back of the neck of the, onthe baby, and I want you guys to
go and to maternal fetalmedicine.
(30:56):
Like I'm going to refer you outearly from us just to get this
looked at because I haveconcerns.
So my husband was with me forthat ultrasound and we just went
in the parking lot and we'relike, are you kidding me?
Like so we've just been throughall this and now something's
(31:20):
wrong with this baby.
Like we just couldn't, wecouldn't comprehend that.
And the doctor there was like,well, you know, she might be
seen something.
It might not really be anything, it's early, you're probably
fine.
But the fact that she sawsomething that early, I mean we
had a feeling something waswrong.
So we were just like trying tomake sense of it all because
(31:44):
they couldn't tell you anything.
They don't know anything, theyjust she just knows what she saw
.
And she said I see somethingconcerning, and that's all I can
really tell you.
So right away we went and gotblood work done so that they
could see if there were anyissues.
And we went to maternal fetalmedicine.
They did a scan and theyconfirmed yes, we're seeing
(32:05):
exactly what that tech wasseeing.
And then it was like April.
So we started that cycle inJanuary.
So it was like April 29th atthis time and we got a call from
the, the doctor who had donethe blood work, and they just
said well, you're having a girl,and we know this because your
(32:32):
baby has Turner syndrome andwhat that means is that she's
missing an X chromosome.
And I was like, wait, what?
Like?
My husband has an extra Xchromosome.
He can't have kids because ofthat, and now we're having a
baby girl that is missing an X,like this, perfectly like.
(32:56):
It just seems so beautiful howthey fit together so wonderfully
like for already a relationshipthat might have been difficult
one, when she would find outthat he was not her biological
father but now had a diagnosisthat was this like the, the
female version of his like.
How can you not like those twocoming together.
(33:20):
It's just I don't know thatcall though.
It was difficult and I had noclue what Turner syndrome was.
As we realized what it was, wewere like, wow, she is like
literally perfect for us, andthe journey up into this point
was required to show, to make usshow up for this little girl
(33:42):
and know that this is not goingto be an easy journey.
She's probably going to be inand out of hospitals with heart
surgeries or all these hormonethings.
She's going to have a differentlife and she might not be able
to have kids of her own andthere's going to be a lot that
goes into this.
But we felt like, okay, hey,this is all coming together so
(34:03):
beautifully.
Um, so we just were.
It didn't really matter at thatpoint what the odds were.
We weren't even looking at thatof the survival rate.
Um, we just were like, wow, sheis Perfect, she is our big girl
.
Like this is what this wholeprocess was.
And then all kind of like thatwhole everything happens for a
(34:24):
reason thing was like she's ourreason, like she's the reason
that we had to go through allthat.
So so, yeah, she, and we hadalready picked out a girl name
and a boy name.
So our girl name was Audrey,after Audrey Hepburn, and so she
was our Audrey and we werealready signing cards from her
(34:46):
and yeah, we were just kind ofwe were in denial that anything
would go wrong, even though thepercentage is like less than
five, that she didn't make itthrough pregnancy.
But yeah, she just felt like itjust felt too good to just be
like what you're going to giveus this beautiful, beautiful
(35:08):
girl meant for us, and thenyou're going to take her from us
, like what is the point?
So, yeah, that's, that's thebeginning part.
So that was.
We found that out the end ofApril and then on Mother's Day,
it was my first Mother's Day.
(35:29):
So I was pregnant.
We had several ultrasounds inbetween then.
She kept getting sicker andsicker and more fluid building
up around her organs and herbody and nothing was looking
good and it was going to be anyweek that she would pass.
But for Mother's Day, I got myfirst Mother's Day.
(35:50):
She was alive and I celebratedwith all the other moms, but I
think it was at the same time.
I was like this is going to beme possibly my last Mother's Day
.
So there are parts about itthat were very beautiful.
(36:13):
Everybody was very supportiveof looking at me like a mother,
because that's another hardthing Like most women don't get
to celebrate Mother's Day untiltheir babies here in their arms,
whether that's a safeguard toprotect yourself, or people just
don't acknowledge you as amother until you're have a baby
alive in your arms, whateverthat is.
Everybody really supported thefact that I was a mother and
(36:39):
that I got to have that specialday.
So our wedding anniversary wasonly like a week after that.
It was May 22nd, and my husbandand I planned a dinner to go out
to celebrate our anniversary,because things were so difficult
and we knew pretty much any dayshe was going to pass and we're
just we're just kind of waitingfor her to die.
(37:03):
So I was at work and I startedbleeding and I was like, come on
, it's my anniversary.
Like why, today, you know, Ijust want this day to again
pretend like everything's goingto be fine and act like nothing
bad is going to happen.
But that was the day and as Iwas leaving, my boss was like oh
(37:24):
, I forgot to give you um, Ihave this book what to Expect
when You're Inspecting.
I forgot to give you the book.
Here you go, and I was like Iprobably don't need it, I think
I'm going to get it.
So I drove myself home and Icalled the doctor and they said
well, we can't see you tillWednesday to find out.
That's the next time we haveavailable for you to come in to
(37:47):
get an ultrasound.
So you may go into labor beforethen, which you may not, and
your baby might be okay.
The bleeding might be justnormal, you might be fine, but
we'll schedule you for Wednesday.
So I had to like go to workMonday, tuesday, and potentially
be carrying this daughter whohad passed away inside, and I
(38:11):
was 16 weeks then, so I wasstarting to show, and so people
were asking and, yeah, it wasjust like, okay, I'm going to be
in the hospital, I guess I'mstill have hope, maybe I don't
know.
And then we went in Wednesdayand they confirmed that there
(38:32):
was no heartbeat and they had todo measurements because she was
far enough along that it wasgoing to be close to whether or
not they would have to induce meand I'd have to give birth to
her, or if I could be put on thehospital I would have to give
birth to her, or if I could beput under and it's once you're
(38:53):
further along, it's called a DNE, so it's a little bit more
evasive, and but then wewouldn't get to see her and I
wouldn't know what had happened.
It would just be I go in and Iwalk out and she's gone.
So within that span of fiveminutes of being given my
options, I have to decide what Iwanted to, because if they're
(39:15):
going to schedule which one,they've got to schedule it right
away, because the longer youwait, your body will naturally
just go into labor.
And if I didn't want to choosethat, I'd have to choose very
fast if the next day I'd beready to do a DNE.
And so I just like, how do you,how do you decide what to do?
(39:39):
Like, how do I have this?
I don't even know.
Like, literally my biggest fearis giving birth, and now I'm
going to give birth to a babythat's not even living.
Like I don't know, I justcouldn't.
But at the same time I justsaid well, can I see her?
If I'm being put under?
(40:00):
Like, how can I?
Like no, like you don't reallyunderstand what we're doing.
There's no saying her.
There is basically no her bythe time we get everything out
of you and that just like, howdo you decide?
So I just said, just put meunder.
I just I want this to be allover with.
I want to be done with thisbecause I'm a.
(40:24):
I'm very scared that if I givebirth to her, then that's it.
I'll never want to go.
I mean, if I've already gotthis big fear of giving birth,
I'm pretty much that's it.
There's no hope of me everwanting to try again.
So that's what I decided.
But it was so devastating toeven like say that because it
was so much like like I don'twant to see her, like I'm
(40:44):
telling her, like you're notsignificant enough for me to go
through that to see you and holdyou.
So just the thought that shewould see or feel that way, I
just felt like a horrible mother, like choosing myself over her.
Yeah, I don't even know it's.
(41:04):
I don't know how I feel aboutit still to this day and what it
would look like if we went.
But that's where I was at inthe five minutes I was given
like okay, and I was.
I was like I don't know, Idon't know how I feel about it.
I don't know how I feel aboutit, but I was like okay, and
what it would look like if wewent.
But that's where I was at in thefive minutes I was given, like
okay, and I was honestly I knewI had 12 hours until we'd have
(41:29):
to go in to have this.
So there were 12 hours and ifshe had really passed that
Friday before there was time, ifshe was meant to be in my arms
then she would come early.
So I just kind of left it up tothat like I'm going to schedule
this and whatever will happenin between this time.
But that night I didn't sleeplike at all because I'm just
waiting for her to get ready togo into labor and once my body
(41:54):
had started going to labor thatthey'd have to call off the DNA.
So just waiting for that tohappen and then not to have that
choice anymore.
So, yeah, we went in and when Iwas in the room about to go and
have the DNA, this group SheriffLancaster, where we had lived,
(42:15):
they came in and they asked ifthey could take her remains and
include it in a shared burialwith all babies from that two
month period and we'd have aplace to go and visit her and
we'd be able to be involved inthe organization and be able to
honor her and have her nameinvolved in all their ceremonies
, and and I for somebody toacknowledge her remains as
(42:44):
significant, when I had justkind of kind of let that part, I
kind of ignored that part,thinking that I was either going
to be able to hold her and thenthose remains would be
significant, but they still feltthat, even with the DNA, that
her remains were significantenough to be included and that's
just was such a blessing thatthey so so needed and so so
(43:09):
impactful to us.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It's so beautiful the the opportunity to be able to
have a place to visit and reallyspend time and just be in a
space of healing and grievingand acknowledgement.
There's so many things there.
For myself, I I didn't havethat experience where I was able
(43:37):
to give birth because it was anemergency situation, and that's
something I know a lot of womengo through.
But then it's also the struggleof grieving, not having
something to say goodbye to.
Yeah, and a lot of women I knowgo through that.
I mean just through my journey.
(43:58):
I think that's one of the mostdifficult things, because when
you don't have something to saygoodbye to, it doesn't.
It's not that it doesn't feelreal, it's very real, but for
the rest of the world it's notso real.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, I almost feel like I'm not sure if I would
have changed the process, but Ifeel like if I had an image of
her and I had her in my arms andpeople would make her
meaningful and make her real.
You know, but by not havingthat, somehow it's just like
(44:40):
never happened and it's notallowed to be significant enough
because there wasn't everanything that people could see
as proof that she existed, youknow so, yeah, you're right,
it's so hard and the I thinkthat's where a lot of the, the
head stuff comes from of notknowing what to choose is.
(45:02):
Will people take this seriously?
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, and whether knowingly or unknowingly, I'm
not sure if you even realizethis when you said it, but when
you talk about your anniversary,it's a time where a marriage,
(45:24):
you know, is where two peopleare fully committing themselves
and you know they're probablythe closest that they'll ever be
in their union.
As far as you know, gettingmarried in that special day and
celebrating that time, you andyour husband were celebrating
(45:44):
that closeness right like you,you don't have that same kind of
closeness day in and day outthroughout the year, but that
special day where it'sacknowledging the love that you
two share Again, I see itabsolutely being so beautiful
that that is the day because shewanted that connection and that
(46:08):
was the day you were so deeplyconnected as a family.
It's absolutely beautiful.
There's so much to your storythat it is almost like it was
manuscript by God, by a higherpower.
(46:29):
You know, just because there'sso much that I mean how else do
you describe it?
How else do you even put wordson it?
I mean it feels like the handhas been in it, you know,
through this process, but thennot only through this process,
(46:49):
but just touching you and havingto place you in a space where
we're going to take you fromthis intimate place of what
mothers go through and we'regoing to put you in a space
where we're going to help youconnect with other women who
understand this kind of pain.
(47:10):
And now you're going to serveas a conduit for healing and
support and giving them guidanceas far as where they can go to
connect, for the support or not,to not to feel like they're on
an island by themselvesexperiencing this, because a lot
(47:31):
of women it does feel verylonely.
It does feel very lonely and ifyou don't have someone who's
alongside of you, it is hard,it's very hard, and that that
person being alongside of you, Imean.
There's a lot of women who arein relationships and maybe
they're not in supportiverelationships, maybe they're not
(47:54):
able to have those intimateconversations with their partner
, or maybe they're living athousand miles away from family
where they don't have someone togo to, like their mom or their
sister or you know somebody likethat.
One of the things that you havementioned that I think it's
(48:15):
really important we talk abouttoo, is you had talked about
your family and you had talkedabout.
You didn't say it, you couldfeel it when you were talking
about it was this pressure?
Because there was another kidcoming into the family and you
know, and it's like, okay, sothe family is getting bigger and
(48:40):
you're surrounded almost withthis like microscope on you, not
by the family per se, but morewhere it's self-imposed because
you're going through all of this.
But then it's almost like, well, hey, I want that, but I'm
(49:01):
almost like mad that it's soeasy for you, right, yeah, can
you talk to that piece a littlebit?
Because right now, somewhere inthe world, there's a woman
listening to this interview andshe's probably thinking I don't
know what to do with this.
I don't know what to do withthese feelings.
(49:22):
I don't know how not to feelwhat I feel or what this is.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
I think I stopped seeing it and now I can see this
.
Heartbreak and loss is ahardship, right, and that's what
life is.
We just go from hardship tohardship to hardship right Just
because someone's hardship isn'taround their infertility or
(49:53):
their loss.
It might be a loss of theirparent, it might be they just
can't.
Their partner is not loving andsupportive, and I think what
you have to focus on is you'renot.
I think it's so hard is that weassume that we're all meant to
be able to have children andit's supposed to be easy, that
(50:15):
it's just how it is right.
But it's just your area and yourpersonal hardship.
You can't write everybody'shardships to be the same.
Everybody's journey is uniqueto them.
So where they've struggledmonetarily, with relationships,
(50:36):
with feeling alone, maybe youdidn't have those hardships
right and you took them forgranted.
You've had a loving andsupportive partner and you took
that for granted becausesomebody else has five kids, but
they're in a really, reallyhard relationship and a really
dark place in that part of theirlife.
So don't you're not beingpunished in any way.
(50:59):
It's just that's the hardshipyou've been dealt.
It's just kind of like the cardthat you're dealt that is going
to get you to a differentjourney and it's going to be a
different path, but that's wherethat's what's going to take you
.
That's like your high mountainthat you have to climb.
You know some of your life itwas kind of easy, you know you
coasted through a bunch of stuffand you took it for granted.
(51:21):
This is your high mountain butit has the best view and it's
worth just keep climbing becausewhen you do reach that there's
there's a different gratitudeyou have when you do actually
have that child, whatever thatjourney ends up looking like.
But when you have that child,you're going to look at that
(51:43):
baby a whole lot different andnot to say that it's a different
love, you just are going tolook at it with a different
appreciation than maybe anothermother who that part was just
kind of handed to her veryeasily.
You know, having kids neverexperienced a loss, but for you
you really you climbed thatmountain and you just never gave
up.
And when you look at that child, it's just it's worth every
(52:07):
single hardship to get you tothat.
But it's yeah, don't think ofit like why am I being punished
in this thing that everybodyelse can do so easily.
It's just that's yourparticular hardship.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
I love.
What you said, too in the verybeginning is that you can create
your family whatever way you'dlike, as far as what it looks
like.
So for some women they may notbe able to have a baby, but they
could adopt, and if it becomesyou know too much, maybe it's
(52:44):
just pseudo adopting someoneelse's child for a period of
time, or adopting a pet orwhatever it looks like.
Whatever you can handle, and Ithink that's really important.
And I am reminded of a situationthat a couple of weeks ago I
(53:06):
was in a store and I was lookingfor a greeting card and on the
other side of the aisle I heartwo women talking, and one of
the women is talking aboutsomebody at work had lost a baby
and she wanted to get a card.
And the other woman said well,why would you do that?
(53:28):
Why would you do that?
Why would you send this woman acard?
And she said because if I hadlost a baby, I would want a card
.
And I thought that was reallybeautiful, that this person was
taking the time to acknowledgethis woman in this way.
(53:48):
And I just wonder for you,rachel, what do you suggest for
people if they know somebodywho's lost a baby.
What do you tell people that ishelpful for them to help
someone through it?
Speaker 2 (54:07):
Just any time you have the opportunity, as long as
they're willing, just let themknow that you're thinking about
them and you're thinking aboutthat baby specifically and
acknowledging the significanceof that baby whether that baby
passed at four weeks, five weeks, like there's no, there's no
gauge on when that baby wassignificant, because it was
(54:27):
significant and, I think, justacknowledging the loss.
And then there's so manyspecific days within the year
that you can honor people whohave gone through a loss.
Just by October 15th, at 7pm,across the world everyone lights
a candle in memories of all thebabies that have been lost and
(54:49):
that means that across the world, for an entire day, there's
light for all those babies.
If it's that simple in saying,hey, I lit a candle for your
baby, I'm thinking of you today,or I saw this bird and it just
give light to it and just talkabout it and just say, hey, I
think about you and I thinkabout your baby.
(55:11):
Because that's what is so hardis that you feel like either one
it's not allowed to besignificant, or that that
child's going to be forgotten,or that you're going to make
people feel uncomfortable if youtalk about it.
But as a mother, that's like somuch joy and people just to you
know, I still my grandma boughtme an Audrey Hepburn painting
(55:35):
and she said I didn't know ifyou would like it.
You know, I didn't know likehow it would make you feel, what
it make you upset, what it makeyou mind you have Audrey.
And I said, no, absolutely likethat, just the fact that you
looked at that and you thoughtof me and you thought of my baby
girl, like just whatever youcan do to say, hey, I'm thinking
of you, I love you, I love youknow, whatever I can do to
(55:56):
support you, it's just reallyimportant.
And just remembering thosedates maybe the day that they
lost the baby, or that due datethat was going to be that baby's
potential birthday, those dates, it's very significant.
We hold a lot.
You never forget those days.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
Because, yeah, so true, and I could talk to you on
and on and on, and I know we'regetting you know short on time,
but I thank you so much forsharing your story and I mean
it's a powerful story and you'rejust doing so so much to put
light into the world for thesefamilies and these women and you
(56:36):
are such a blessing and it'sjust beautiful what you're doing
.
I do have one last question.
If I ask all my, all my guestspeakers, if I were to find your
earth angel feather on theground and I picked it up, what
would your message to the worldbe?
Speaker 2 (56:57):
I feel like around loss is just to show love.
Just to show love to those, toeveryone, not just the people
that are physically here, but toshow love for those have passed
, whether it be a baby or amother or a grandparent or an
(57:18):
animal, anything, just all thatwe do with love, and and I can't
begin to tell you how much lovewill flood your life and how
overwhelmed you will be infeeling that love back, if
that's your focus.
It's this beautiful cycle.
So, just before you do anything, just do it with love.
Speaker 1 (57:41):
And that is so beautiful.
Rachel, have a very happyMother's Day.
Yes, thank you, you too, thankyou, and that's all we have time
for today.
This is Catherine Daniels, withRetreat to Peace, reminding you
to live your authentic lifewith peace.
And, as always, retreat toPeace, we will see you next time
(58:03):
.
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