March 1, 2023 • 34 mins
Welcome to Season 3, friends! Thanks for tuning in.
Our gaze should always be toward Jesus, but we must ask ourselves what version of Jesus are we trying to focus on? Are we worshipping the fullness of who He is, or are we trying to push attention towards a comfortable version of Him while ignoring the very brokenness He was sent to restore in the world? This is what we'll be diving into in today's episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabrielle Leonard (00:00):
Welcome to the return to joy podcast. I'm
your host, Gabrielle MichelLeonard. Here, we're leading
people to cultivate joy throughstorytelling. We hope listening
will reveal pathways tounlocking the healing power of
connection, so that you can seeyour relationships and the world
around you transformed fromfractured into flourishing. So
(00:24):
I've had a complex relationshipwith the phrase or language,
just focus on Jesus. And thatmay be very surprising to some
of you guys that are listeningright now. And that's okay,
stick with me. Because I, Ithink that if you listen through
(00:47):
this episode one, you'll noticethat I am not communicating that
there's any issue with justfocusing on Jesus. But more. So
some of the issues in regards tohow that phrase has been wielded
in some of the environments thatI've been in. And so I in this
(01:11):
episode, I really want to onejust vulnerably share, um, you
know, how I do and Gabriellefashion, I got some storytelling
for you. And so I want to sharea story that I think will paint
a picture as to what washappening in my heart. And so
(01:34):
when I want you to recognizethat part of this episode is me
vulnerably sharing, someprocessing and some recipe and
some wrestling. And then also dolike, I think, in this view,
this episode will give insightinto why that phrase, just focus
(01:55):
on Jesus has been bothintentionally and
unintentionally harmful in someways. And then, lastly, what I
just what I know what's gonnahappen from this, because I know
how, you know, I know how thestory ends, is I also want to,
like offer a pathway forward.
Like offer hope, there is at theat the end of this wrestling,
(02:18):
there, there is hope. And Ithink that what I offer will
provide understanding for theconfused, you know, those who
are hearing me say, I've had acomplex relationship, I've had
some inner, you know, some someturmoil around that phrasing,
just focus on Jesus, and you maybe going, I'm confused, you
(02:38):
know, and I'm partially thinkingabout like, maybe this episode
is not for me, but no like this,this episode of that's us gonna
provide understanding. But thenI also think for other people,
if you've had any of some of thesame like, wrestling's or
thoughts, I think it will belike this, like healing balm for
(03:00):
you. And so ultimately, the goalof this episode is understanding
for the confused and medicationfor the broken. So if either one
of those if you like, either oneof those would be like, great,
and I would be excited. If thatwas like your response to this
episode. So I want to dive rightinto it. Um, last year, towards
(03:24):
the end of last year, I wasgiven this amazing opportunity
to attend a retreat, a small,intimate retreat for leaders,
just like people that haveinfluence in various like ways
and spears, for them to bedeeply poured into deeply, just
(03:47):
loved on an experience, likejust rest and refreshment and I
was needy of that exceptionallyneedy of that and felt like this
retreat was a gift. It was agift from God. And I still
believe that way about thisretreat, and I feel just deeply
(04:09):
grateful for the overallexperience that I had there.
When I arrived at the retreatcenter, I was well, didn't mean
basically to say, I knew thiswould pocket possibly happening
though, so I didn't butbasically, when I arrived at the
(04:31):
retreat center, I was faced withthe reality that I was the only
black person there while I wasthe only minority participant.
So when I arrived at the retreatcenter, I was very glaringly
aware of the reality that I wasthe only black participant
(04:56):
there. And so I, you know, I wasaware of that, you know, was
being welcomed into the room,people were nice, but I, you
know, I'm aware that there's,there's there's no way really
for me to not be. And I couldfeel some of the like, angst and
wrestles kind of happening in myheart a little bit in my body
(05:18):
and I'm like, okay, and evenlike, just the reality of like,
Alright, there's certain, liketemptations of thought that I
have to be aware of. And evenjust acknowledge in order to
really fully show up in thatspace, right? And so I'm just
aware of like, okay, I see this,I notice, I am the I am the only
minority here, I'm only AfricanAmerican. And, okay, I see this,
(05:43):
and I'm like, God, I need thisretreat. And I am even
personally hoping of like, Lordlike, helped us to not be a
distraction from me being ableto really get what I need from
you in this time, likeirregardless of their humaneness
(06:06):
and ability to love me well ornot, I need refreshment and rest
from you. And so I'm like, Godhelped me to be able to get that
from you. And overall, like Idefinitely was, but the second
day of my time there were inthis living room environment.
And there's this call to worshipby the leader. And I can't
(06:29):
remember all in this moment oflike what was said right
beforehand, maybe it may havesome implications into what
started popping up in my heart,but the worst the the, the
leader at the time, like callseveryone to, to worship, and to
specifically fix their eyes,which is focused on Jesus. And
so some people begin to standI'm still seated in my chair,
(06:53):
and the wrestling begins. And inthis moment, I you know, I've
become very glaringly aware ofthere's just some thoughts and
some wrestling's that are comingbubbling up from the surface.
And I'm going alright, God,here, this is here. This is I'm
I'm gonna I'm having a hard timeright now. I'm in full
(07:15):
sincerity, worshiping with thewith the women, the women in
this room, in an honesty andinformed truth is, you know, I'm
having a hard time I'mwrestling. There's, there's
thoughts there's some there'ssome questions in regards to are
we truly, you know, like lookingand focusing on the same Jesus,
(07:40):
our values the same and there'sand there's some questions in
wrestling's because I'm going,man, God, this space is
wonderful. This environment iswonderful. I love the
intentionality and the carethat's being demonstrated to us
to these to these leaders inthis room. But then I'm also
(08:01):
going, I'm wrestling, and youknow, and I'm a part of it,
because I'm going man got how Idon't, I don't know if I see
spaces like this available forthe most ostracize and
disenfranchised and oppressed.
And impoverished in our citiesthat need care and attention,
(08:24):
and also valuing. And so I'mwrestling because I'm going,
Jesus does focusing on yourequire that I ignore some of
the pain and injustice in theworld. That's ultimately one of
the things that's coming up. AndI'm wrestling, because I feel
like I once again, I feel like Ineed to make a choice as to if
(08:47):
I'm going to care about Jesus,if I'm going to love Jesus, or
if I'm going to love people thatI feel like have been hurt,
harmed and unseen and unheard.
You see, there's been somespaces that I've been in, where
the language let's just focus onJesus was used to silence
(09:08):
conversations about racialtrauma and injustice. There's
been moments that I've steppedinto, or spaces that I've been
I've been a part of where it'sfelt like that phrasing was used
to intentionally stir attentionaway from hard conversations or
uncomfortable conversations.
(09:35):
Where it's been thisbelittlement of pain. And
really, I think it's resulted inlike this like disembodied
faith. I was faced with that allof that was coming back to the
forefront of my mind and heartjust from her in that moment.
Bless her heart she made the youknow, she'd be totally oblivious
(09:56):
to any and all of this and hadand I don't think had any in
that moment at any time. maliceintended when she said, Let's
just focus on Jesus, but thenbut it was just coming up, all
of it was coming up in thatmoment in this time, because
there's been spaces wherethere's been a, a bias around
(10:17):
how we're to just focus onJesus. And what's dangerous
about that is that it's beenunnamed, but it's been expected.
And I think the people in theroom, some people in the room,
or at least I can speak from myown experience, that that
(10:37):
expectation left me, I felt itfor one, whether it was
intentional of the person usingthat language to intentionally
redirect from conversationsabout racial trauma or
injustice, or whether it wasunintentional, because of that,
(10:58):
you know, person really havinglike, no malice intended at all
or unintentional, but justresulting from their own anxiety
around those conversations, orjust desire to control and keep
the peace, right. Butnonetheless, like that
expectation, the on expressedexpectation of what it looks
(11:23):
like to just focus on Jesus. Butthat's like implied, left me
with some internalizednarratives that were painful,
and did damage to myrelationship with Christ. See,
what I began to internalize overthe last summer years was like,
and even, you know, before evengoing a little further back, but
(11:46):
just that my struggles as a, asa black woman, were relevant to
God. My problem was my problemor my, you know, the community I
was a part of, as like was theirproblems, were not relevant to
God. And that in order to be agood and faithful Christian, I
(12:08):
needed to ignore that pain. Oneof our very human responses to
the brokenness in pain in theworld is that we, we lean,
whether intentionally orunintentionally, we lean towards
(12:28):
division, or homogeneity. Likewe, we come with these
assumptions, we think, likelooking at Jesus to look the
same. And it causes harm. Wethink like, it's got to look
like the way I'm looking atJesus. We assume I think,
ultimately, it's coming fromthis place of like, we're
(12:51):
wanting healing. You know, we'reultimately wanting restoration.
But we assume that healing fordivision is sameness. And it's
not. You know, like the solutionfor division is not sameness,
there is the possibility forunity and diversity. There was
(13:12):
two things happening in myheart, in response to her
saying, just focus on Jesuscolliding in that living room
was experiences that experiencesthat I had with people that were
using that language for harm,and that those spaces were
(13:34):
needing were in need of healing.
And then there were spaces ofexperiencing that language with
people that didn't have nointent of harm. But they too are
like me fragile in this world.
And in in their quest forwholeness in their quest for
(13:55):
healing. They advocated forsameness, which ultimately
resulted in more division.
They've advocated, you know,they've said, Let's just look at
Jesus and unintentionally, we'realso saying, and looking at
Jesus looks like this. It looksthe way I'm looking at Jesus
(14:18):
model. Me can only be like,like, it looks like the way I'm
looking at him. And it causesharm, it has damage. See, we
assume that healing for divisionis sameness and it's not. A
solution for division is notsameness. It is possible for
(14:41):
there to be unity and rich andbeautiful diversity. And when we
assume otherwise, we createfractures in the hearts and in
communities. We, when we're onwhen we quest for sameness,
(15:01):
we're results is a false andweak unity. That is actually a
breeding ground for division andan unintentionally wounds.
That's what was happening in myheart. And I was finding it hard
to worship in that space, I wasfinding it hard to experience
unity in that space. Becausewhat I was internalizing what I
(15:25):
really was internalizing was,I'm separate, or they're
separate. We've got differentstories. Because there's things
that are happening in me,there's reflections that are
happening me there's pain that'shappening in me, that seems like
it's got to stay shut out inorder for me to be a part. And
so it breeds distrust anxiety.
(15:50):
And I'm going, Are we worshipingthe same Jesus? That then it's
got it had me beginning toquestion the integrity and
relevance of Christ. Because I'mgoing, God, if, if this pain is
separate, then I'm wondering,Okay, do you not see those
without resources? Do you notsee those that are hurting, that
(16:13):
are oppressed, that are unseen,instead of acknowledging,
experiencing the truth, thatGod's divine compassion and
intervention, and His plan forrestoration does intersect with
our stories. And it actuallyintertwines us and connects us.
(16:36):
We aren't separate. But some ofthe ways that we have responded
to pain to brokenness in theearth to injustice to to harm,
has further inflicted wounds.
But here's where I want to pivotand shift to the hope to what
was deeply refreshing is like Isaid, I'm, I was sitting in that
(16:59):
living room, and I'm wrestlingwith all these things, right.
And then I, as I'm talking, I'mtalking to Jesus, I'm going and
I see everyone else is standingup, and their hands, big and
raised in their, in their, intheir belly and went out praise
and worship. And thankfully, inthat moment, I didn't feel the
pressure to just are I will letme stand up and raise my hand.
(17:20):
So I look like I'm unified. So Ilook like I'm a participant,
because I'm not gonna lie, therewas a little bit of me like
that. I can't be like, I'm theonly black person here. I can't
be like, dang, one black girl isout here. Not trying to worship
the Lord. So I'm like, dealingwith a little bit of it. But I'm
thankful that in that moment, Ichose to not like I'm not where
they're at. I'm not, I'm notdoing what they're doing. I got
(17:44):
some things I got to workthrough with the Lord. And I'm
not going to respond to thatpressure narrative right now.
And so I'm sitting there withGod, and I'm like, Jesus, you,
you got to talk to me, I'mstruggling. She's saying, let's
just focus on you. But I'mwondering who is that that we're
focusing on? Who is you got tore anchor me in truth? You know,
(18:05):
like, who are you? Who am Whoare my eyes focusing on right
now we're fixing on right now.
You got to help me here so thatI can worship you, because I'm
struggling. And so, sobeautifully. I don't even know
how I got to it. But what Iended up turning to is John
(18:28):
five, I think I probably had anassumption of like, Alright, I'm
gonna go to the Gospels, becausesomewhere in the gospels, but
outside of that, I think I justflipped to a page. I'm not sure.
I don't know why I landed there.
But I land in John five. AndJohn five is where we come to
the story of the crippled man,at the pool of Bethesda. You
see, this man had been crippledfor 38 years. And he'd been
(18:52):
sitting at the school or layingdown at this pool. And every
time this water stirred, therewas this, you know, their
stories had been being toldaround him, that like, hey, at
this pool, there's anopportunity for healing. There's
(19:13):
an opportunity for freedom, butif you can just get yourself to
into the pool, if you can justbe one of the first ones in the
pool.
But he was completely paralyzed.
And he and, and every time thiswater Stirred, he was reminded
of his need, but also hispowerlessness. So I come to this
(19:36):
story. And I just start reading.
I just start reading from fromverse one. Where you know, and I
sleep just for reference,because this was the Bible. This
is the translation that I hadwith me and I'm so glad I had
it. But it was the FNV which isthe First Nations version. It's
(19:57):
an indigenous translation of theNew Testament. And so if you're
I'm going to read from thatright now, but I start reading.
And it says, A short time laterCreator sets free Jesus went
ahead to the village of peace,Jerusalem, to another
traditional feast for all thetribes of wrestles with creator
(20:19):
Israel. In the village of peace,Jerusalem, near the sheep gate,
there is a waterhole with fivecovered porches called House of
kindness, Bethesda in our triballanguage. Under these porches
lay a great number of people whowere sick blind, or could not
walk or stand. They were waitingfor the swirling of the water
(20:42):
because from time to time, aspirit messenger would go down
into the waterhole and make thewater swirl. And then the first
one to get into the water wouldbe healed. A man was there who
had been ill for 38 winters,Creator sets free Jesus saw him
(21:04):
lying there and knew that he hadbeen sick for a long time. I got
to this very next line, whichsays like he asked him, Jesus,
do you want to be healed? I gotto verse seven. I didn't even
get a chance to finish to readthe whole line. I'll stop where
(21:25):
I stopped then. And I broke downweeping in that living room. His
response to Jesus question of doyou want to be healed in verse
seven was honored one, the mananswered, when the water stirs?
There is no one. I paused, Iread that I just my eyes see,
(21:47):
there is no one. And I justbroke down, weeping. Because in
that moment, I was reminded
Unknown (22:00):
why it was why why I was to look at Jesus. In that
moment, I went, Oh, this is theperson that I'm looking at.
Gabrielle Leonard (22:13):
This, this, this one who woulda knew
exactly. Who knew that man'sname who knew where he was? He
knew that he was a man withoutpower. A man without strength. I
mean, literally, that verse inverse three, when it when it's
talking about there being agreat number of sick, blind and
(22:33):
paralyze. The Greek word that'sused to define the people
literally means to be weak,feeble, be without strength,
powerless. Some, I'm picturingin this moment, Jesus. My eyes
are fixing on, on, on Christhere standing over this man
(22:57):
looking at him. This one withtotal power, and authority,
wielding his power to offerhope, restoration, and literally
elevation, elevating him fromhis place of brokenness and
(23:18):
bondage to a place of healingand wholeness. And I'm weeping.
And I'm filled with awe andwonder again, and also
conviction because I'm goingyeah, you are worthy of my
worship. And yeah, like, I likeit just just convicted. Because
I also hear I also in this,like, I'm hearing, Jesus
(23:41):
challenged me back and be like,oh, oh, I care about the poor.
The marginalize the sociallyafflicted, the criminal law, the
criminalized and the oppressed.
Like, my vision is not onlyrestored, but I hear Jesus
correcting me, or making a casefor himself and saying, like,
(24:02):
No, I do, this is who I am. I docare here, and I am moving. And
just because you don't see it,doesn't mean it's not happening.
And I'm encouraged. And there'sall in wonder that's restored to
my heart in that moment. As Isee Jesus, restoring a man
without power, and withoutstrength. And I'm just weeping
(24:27):
there, and I'm an all as I justinternalize the truth, and shed
away some of the things that Iinternalized about Christ, from
man's own brokenness. In my ownbrokenness, that was false. You
see, what's interesting, though,story's not over. That. Does
(24:52):
kind of tie in to what I've beentalking about is, I remember
there was a lady that came overto me while I'm at my face and
weeping, like I said, everyoneelse was standing up and they
were worshipping their handswere raised. And there was an
excitement and zeal in the room.
And this woman came up to me oneof the one of the leaders, and
(25:13):
in the middle of my weeping overthe chair, are like, Oh, she
didn't see my face, you know, inher defense, but she, she taps
me on the shoulder. And I lookup confused a little bit in the
days of what was about to happenwas going on. And she says, will
you worship with me? Will youworship with me? And there's
(25:35):
this impulse, there was thisimplication in her invitation of
like, it basically like of like,I'm not, hey, like, will you
worship now? Like, hey, like,Hey, look at how I'm worshiping,
right? Well, we've just beentalking about, look at how I'm
worshiping, hey, come andworship with me. And I just
looked at her and I smiled, andI said, I am and I pointed at
(25:55):
the book, but then the word thatwas in front of me, I was
reading the word and, and Ipointed down, I said, with, you
know, with the tears that areliterally streaming down my
face, and I just said, I amworshiping right now. I am
worshiping right now. I thinkthere's, there's a couple of
needs. There's a two crucialneeds that we have in our church
(26:24):
communities, they in our faith,as is, as expressed together and
in separate and separately in.
And one of those is we we mustpractice, inquiry and
reflection. The second is thatthere is a deep need for
diversity of posture in worshipin practice. First, that that
(26:45):
first one, inquiry or askingquestions, and reflection. From
that experience, I've realizedjust how important it is for us
to frequently ask the question,Who do I say Jesus is? I'm just
thinking about how like Jesusasked that question of his
(27:08):
disciples. They've been walkingwith him. And he asked them the
question, Who do you say that Iam? There was so many narratives
swirling around about Christ,while Christ was with them all.
And even he had to check in withhis disciples. Even he offered
an inquiry he offered a questionfor them to, to think about and
answer honestly, like, Who doyou say that I am? That question
(27:32):
is still relevant and cruciallyimportant for us to reflect on.
Who do we say Jesus is? I had toreflect on it in order to, to
worship in order to focus onJesus. And I think we who call
people's attention to Christ,need to reflect on that question
(27:55):
as well of Like, who do we sayJesus is? And also a second
question of what do we thinkdistracts us from Jesus? Like,
is it is it conflict? Is itdifficult situations? We have to
ask ourselves the question, whenwe redirect people to Christ, is
it for their benefit? Or is itfor our own? Is it because we're
(28:20):
uncomfortable about how they'rerelating to Christ about are we
uncomfortable about theirwrestles about their questions
about their frustration abouttheir disillusionment, or pain
or anger? Are we uncomfortable?
And are we seeking to pacify orcontrol or keep certain things
(28:42):
at distance? Or are weredirecting them? Is the
intention and motive of ourheart to truly redirect them
towards Christ for theirbenefit? So think we ask them
that question of is it for theirbenefit or mine? We'll go about
redirection in a different way.
You got to ask ourselves that,you know, am I avoiding pain? Do
(29:04):
I ever tell myself even just thethings you talk to yourself? Do
you ever say like, gosh, I needto focus on Jesus. And yes, the
the phrase itself is, is isneutral or even I'd say like
true, like, Yes, it's good focuson Jesus. But what? What is
motivating that what's drivingit? Are you are you trying to
(29:25):
avoid pain? Do you feel likeyour pain is separate from
Christ? Are you trying to avoidrepentance? Is there something
that you're being challenged by?
Or you know, possibly to wrestlewith? But in order to not do so
just like average, let's justfocus on Jesus. And then last
week, there's this need thisother question that comes up in
(29:46):
my heart is like, man, like, arewe separating, asking yourself
like, am I separating myselffrom those? I'm actually called
to be connected to like, isthere any way that like, I'm I'm
like separating myself from thevery people that I've been
called to be present with,present in their pain. And I
(30:08):
might unintentionally using thelanguage, let's just focus on
Jesus as a cop out or a way toreroute around the very thing
that's ailing the people thatI'm called to serve and care
about, that Jesus cared about.
And then there's this the in theconvention, it's crucial need of
we have got to have morediversity of posture and
(30:29):
worship. Bless her heart, thatwoman I know, she wasn't mean
anything by that. But it justfelt like Man, this is a
teachable moment here. Even justin that, that lady's response,
that woman's invitation to me,to worship with her, I am
certainly sure that it was manit was meant in the not in any
(30:51):
intentionally harmful ways. Hegenuinely was like, let me help
this girl enter in, let me helpher worship. But she didn't
realize I was and thatultimately, there's a diverse
posture of worship, and we needthat can that can happen and we
(31:11):
need more environments in whichthe and is demonstrated. We're
fixing our eyes on Jesus canlook like developing affordable
housing for underserved andintentionally neglected
communities. externalizing Jesuscan look like contemplative
prayer, peace and silence, ordemonstrative zeal and joy.
(31:34):
fixing our eyes on Jesus canlook like sorrow and questioning
and frustration, anddisillusionment, this this, this
wrestle intention, but it canalso look like deep conviction
and hope, the solution to ourpain, that we are all
experiencing the symptoms ofdivision, and we're experiencing
(31:57):
the solution to our pain anddivision that we're experiencing
right now isn't more silos andecho chambers of our own
thoughts and practices.
It's not the solution. We've gotto wrestle towards another way.
(32:19):
And embracing the end is a partof that. This like inquiry, or
questions? These questions arethe practice of questions and
reflection is necessary. Andalso like the man, the the
healing balm of like being inproximity of diversity, of
(32:40):
pasture in worship, diversity ofpractice, when it comes to
looking at Jesus verse is sonecessary and needed. It is
healing, it is medication. And Iam deeply grateful for the case
(33:00):
Christ made for himself when Igave him the opportunity to do
so. When I did wrestle, I'mgrateful that I didn't just step
into worshiping, like everyoneelse was worshiping. I'm
grateful that I didn't look atJesus, the way everyone else was
looking at Jesus. Because therewas hidden treasure in the
(33:23):
wrestle. And when I wrestled,and the picture of Christ got
even more beautiful, expanded,increase in His richness in in
in depth, and I was humbled,humbled, and in awe. And I think
there's, there's opportunitystill opportunity for us, for us
(33:47):
all to be humbled and in awe bylooking at Jesus. If you're
hearing this message, you'velistened to the entire episode.
And for that, I am deeplygrateful. I hope this episode
resonated with you and if it didhelp us out by sharing this
episode, and leaving a review onApple, podcasts, and Spotify.
(34:08):
Most importantly, reach out tolet me know how you're engaging
with this episode, and whattopics you'd like to see covered
in the future. You can connectwith us on social media, or get
in touch with me directly atGabrielle at return to joy.com
to share your heart. I'll seeyou in two weeks for a new
episode.
Welcome to the return to joy podcast. I'm
your host, Gabrielle MichelLeonard. Here, we're leading
people to cultivate joy throughstorytelling. We hope listening
will reveal pathways tounlocking the healing power of
connection, so that you can seeyour relationships and the world
around you transformed fromfractured into flourishing. So
(00:24):
I've had a complex relationshipwith the phrase or language,
just focus on Jesus. And thatmay be very surprising to some
of you guys that are listeningright now. And that's okay,
stick with me. Because I, Ithink that if you listen through
(00:47):
this episode one, you'll noticethat I am not communicating that
there's any issue with justfocusing on Jesus. But more. So
some of the issues in regards tohow that phrase has been wielded
in some of the environments thatI've been in. And so I in this
(01:11):
episode, I really want to onejust vulnerably share, um, you
know, how I do and Gabriellefashion, I got some storytelling
for you. And so I want to sharea story that I think will paint
a picture as to what washappening in my heart. And so
(01:34):
when I want you to recognizethat part of this episode is me
vulnerably sharing, someprocessing and some recipe and
some wrestling. And then also dolike, I think, in this view,
this episode will give insightinto why that phrase, just focus
(01:55):
on Jesus has been bothintentionally and
unintentionally harmful in someways. And then, lastly, what I
just what I know what's gonnahappen from this, because I know
how, you know, I know how thestory ends, is I also want to,
like offer a pathway forward.
Like offer hope, there is at theat the end of this wrestling,
(02:18):
there, there is hope. And Ithink that what I offer will
provide understanding for theconfused, you know, those who
are hearing me say, I've had acomplex relationship, I've had
some inner, you know, some someturmoil around that phrasing,
just focus on Jesus, and you maybe going, I'm confused, you
(02:38):
know, and I'm partially thinkingabout like, maybe this episode
is not for me, but no like this,this episode of that's us gonna
provide understanding. But thenI also think for other people,
if you've had any of some of thesame like, wrestling's or
thoughts, I think it will belike this, like healing balm for
(03:00):
you. And so ultimately, the goalof this episode is understanding
for the confused and medicationfor the broken. So if either one
of those if you like, either oneof those would be like, great,
and I would be excited. If thatwas like your response to this
episode. So I want to dive rightinto it. Um, last year, towards
(03:24):
the end of last year, I wasgiven this amazing opportunity
to attend a retreat, a small,intimate retreat for leaders,
just like people that haveinfluence in various like ways
and spears, for them to bedeeply poured into deeply, just
(03:47):
loved on an experience, likejust rest and refreshment and I
was needy of that exceptionallyneedy of that and felt like this
retreat was a gift. It was agift from God. And I still
believe that way about thisretreat, and I feel just deeply
(04:09):
grateful for the overallexperience that I had there.
When I arrived at the retreatcenter, I was well, didn't mean
basically to say, I knew thiswould pocket possibly happening
though, so I didn't butbasically, when I arrived at the
(04:31):
retreat center, I was faced withthe reality that I was the only
black person there while I wasthe only minority participant.
So when I arrived at the retreatcenter, I was very glaringly
aware of the reality that I wasthe only black participant
(04:56):
there. And so I, you know, I wasaware of that, you know, was
being welcomed into the room,people were nice, but I, you
know, I'm aware that there's,there's there's no way really
for me to not be. And I couldfeel some of the like, angst and
wrestles kind of happening in myheart a little bit in my body
(05:18):
and I'm like, okay, and evenlike, just the reality of like,
Alright, there's certain, liketemptations of thought that I
have to be aware of. And evenjust acknowledge in order to
really fully show up in thatspace, right? And so I'm just
aware of like, okay, I see this,I notice, I am the I am the only
minority here, I'm only AfricanAmerican. And, okay, I see this,
(05:43):
and I'm like, God, I need thisretreat. And I am even
personally hoping of like, Lordlike, helped us to not be a
distraction from me being ableto really get what I need from
you in this time, likeirregardless of their humaneness
(06:06):
and ability to love me well ornot, I need refreshment and rest
from you. And so I'm like, Godhelped me to be able to get that
from you. And overall, like Idefinitely was, but the second
day of my time there were inthis living room environment.
And there's this call to worshipby the leader. And I can't
(06:29):
remember all in this moment oflike what was said right
beforehand, maybe it may havesome implications into what
started popping up in my heart,but the worst the the, the
leader at the time, like callseveryone to, to worship, and to
specifically fix their eyes,which is focused on Jesus. And
so some people begin to standI'm still seated in my chair,
(06:53):
and the wrestling begins. And inthis moment, I you know, I've
become very glaringly aware ofthere's just some thoughts and
some wrestling's that are comingbubbling up from the surface.
And I'm going alright, God,here, this is here. This is I'm
I'm gonna I'm having a hard timeright now. I'm in full
(07:15):
sincerity, worshiping with thewith the women, the women in
this room, in an honesty andinformed truth is, you know, I'm
having a hard time I'mwrestling. There's, there's
thoughts there's some there'ssome questions in regards to are
we truly, you know, like lookingand focusing on the same Jesus,
(07:40):
our values the same and there'sand there's some questions in
wrestling's because I'm going,man, God, this space is
wonderful. This environment iswonderful. I love the
intentionality and the carethat's being demonstrated to us
to these to these leaders inthis room. But then I'm also
(08:01):
going, I'm wrestling, and youknow, and I'm a part of it,
because I'm going man got how Idon't, I don't know if I see
spaces like this available forthe most ostracize and
disenfranchised and oppressed.
And impoverished in our citiesthat need care and attention,
(08:24):
and also valuing. And so I'mwrestling because I'm going,
Jesus does focusing on yourequire that I ignore some of
the pain and injustice in theworld. That's ultimately one of
the things that's coming up. AndI'm wrestling, because I feel
like I once again, I feel like Ineed to make a choice as to if
(08:47):
I'm going to care about Jesus,if I'm going to love Jesus, or
if I'm going to love people thatI feel like have been hurt,
harmed and unseen and unheard.
You see, there's been somespaces that I've been in, where
the language let's just focus onJesus was used to silence
(09:08):
conversations about racialtrauma and injustice. There's
been moments that I've steppedinto, or spaces that I've been
I've been a part of where it'sfelt like that phrasing was used
to intentionally stir attentionaway from hard conversations or
uncomfortable conversations.
(09:35):
Where it's been thisbelittlement of pain. And
really, I think it's resulted inlike this like disembodied
faith. I was faced with that allof that was coming back to the
forefront of my mind and heartjust from her in that moment.
Bless her heart she made the youknow, she'd be totally oblivious
(09:56):
to any and all of this and hadand I don't think had any in
that moment at any time. maliceintended when she said, Let's
just focus on Jesus, but thenbut it was just coming up, all
of it was coming up in thatmoment in this time, because
there's been spaces wherethere's been a, a bias around
(10:17):
how we're to just focus onJesus. And what's dangerous
about that is that it's beenunnamed, but it's been expected.
And I think the people in theroom, some people in the room,
or at least I can speak from myown experience, that that
(10:37):
expectation left me, I felt itfor one, whether it was
intentional of the person usingthat language to intentionally
redirect from conversationsabout racial trauma or
injustice, or whether it wasunintentional, because of that,
(10:58):
you know, person really havinglike, no malice intended at all
or unintentional, but justresulting from their own anxiety
around those conversations, orjust desire to control and keep
the peace, right. Butnonetheless, like that
expectation, the on expressedexpectation of what it looks
(11:23):
like to just focus on Jesus. Butthat's like implied, left me
with some internalizednarratives that were painful,
and did damage to myrelationship with Christ. See,
what I began to internalize overthe last summer years was like,
and even, you know, before evengoing a little further back, but
(11:46):
just that my struggles as a, asa black woman, were relevant to
God. My problem was my problemor my, you know, the community I
was a part of, as like was theirproblems, were not relevant to
God. And that in order to be agood and faithful Christian, I
(12:08):
needed to ignore that pain. Oneof our very human responses to
the brokenness in pain in theworld is that we, we lean,
whether intentionally orunintentionally, we lean towards
(12:28):
division, or homogeneity. Likewe, we come with these
assumptions, we think, likelooking at Jesus to look the
same. And it causes harm. Wethink like, it's got to look
like the way I'm looking atJesus. We assume I think,
ultimately, it's coming fromthis place of like, we're
(12:51):
wanting healing. You know, we'reultimately wanting restoration.
But we assume that healing fordivision is sameness. And it's
not. You know, like the solutionfor division is not sameness,
there is the possibility forunity and diversity. There was
(13:12):
two things happening in myheart, in response to her
saying, just focus on Jesuscolliding in that living room
was experiences that experiencesthat I had with people that were
using that language for harm,and that those spaces were
(13:34):
needing were in need of healing.
And then there were spaces ofexperiencing that language with
people that didn't have nointent of harm. But they too are
like me fragile in this world.
And in in their quest forwholeness in their quest for
(13:55):
healing. They advocated forsameness, which ultimately
resulted in more division.
They've advocated, you know,they've said, Let's just look at
Jesus and unintentionally, we'realso saying, and looking at
Jesus looks like this. It looksthe way I'm looking at Jesus
(14:18):
model. Me can only be like,like, it looks like the way I'm
looking at him. And it causesharm, it has damage. See, we
assume that healing for divisionis sameness and it's not. A
solution for division is notsameness. It is possible for
(14:41):
there to be unity and rich andbeautiful diversity. And when we
assume otherwise, we createfractures in the hearts and in
communities. We, when we're onwhen we quest for sameness,
(15:01):
we're results is a false andweak unity. That is actually a
breeding ground for division andan unintentionally wounds.
That's what was happening in myheart. And I was finding it hard
to worship in that space, I wasfinding it hard to experience
unity in that space. Becausewhat I was internalizing what I
(15:25):
really was internalizing was,I'm separate, or they're
separate. We've got differentstories. Because there's things
that are happening in me,there's reflections that are
happening me there's pain that'shappening in me, that seems like
it's got to stay shut out inorder for me to be a part. And
so it breeds distrust anxiety.
(15:50):
And I'm going, Are we worshipingthe same Jesus? That then it's
got it had me beginning toquestion the integrity and
relevance of Christ. Because I'mgoing, God, if, if this pain is
separate, then I'm wondering,Okay, do you not see those
without resources? Do you notsee those that are hurting, that
(16:13):
are oppressed, that are unseen,instead of acknowledging,
experiencing the truth, thatGod's divine compassion and
intervention, and His plan forrestoration does intersect with
our stories. And it actuallyintertwines us and connects us.
(16:36):
We aren't separate. But some ofthe ways that we have responded
to pain to brokenness in theearth to injustice to to harm,
has further inflicted wounds.
But here's where I want to pivotand shift to the hope to what
was deeply refreshing is like Isaid, I'm, I was sitting in that
(16:59):
living room, and I'm wrestlingwith all these things, right.
And then I, as I'm talking, I'mtalking to Jesus, I'm going and
I see everyone else is standingup, and their hands, big and
raised in their, in their, intheir belly and went out praise
and worship. And thankfully, inthat moment, I didn't feel the
pressure to just are I will letme stand up and raise my hand.
(17:20):
So I look like I'm unified. So Ilook like I'm a participant,
because I'm not gonna lie, therewas a little bit of me like
that. I can't be like, I'm theonly black person here. I can't
be like, dang, one black girl isout here. Not trying to worship
the Lord. So I'm like, dealingwith a little bit of it. But I'm
thankful that in that moment, Ichose to not like I'm not where
they're at. I'm not, I'm notdoing what they're doing. I got
(17:44):
some things I got to workthrough with the Lord. And I'm
not going to respond to thatpressure narrative right now.
And so I'm sitting there withGod, and I'm like, Jesus, you,
you got to talk to me, I'mstruggling. She's saying, let's
just focus on you. But I'mwondering who is that that we're
focusing on? Who is you got tore anchor me in truth? You know,
(18:05):
like, who are you? Who am Whoare my eyes focusing on right
now we're fixing on right now.
You got to help me here so thatI can worship you, because I'm
struggling. And so, sobeautifully. I don't even know
how I got to it. But what Iended up turning to is John
(18:28):
five, I think I probably had anassumption of like, Alright, I'm
gonna go to the Gospels, becausesomewhere in the gospels, but
outside of that, I think I justflipped to a page. I'm not sure.
I don't know why I landed there.
But I land in John five. AndJohn five is where we come to
the story of the crippled man,at the pool of Bethesda. You
see, this man had been crippledfor 38 years. And he'd been
(18:52):
sitting at the school or layingdown at this pool. And every
time this water stirred, therewas this, you know, their
stories had been being toldaround him, that like, hey, at
this pool, there's anopportunity for healing. There's
(19:13):
an opportunity for freedom, butif you can just get yourself to
into the pool, if you can justbe one of the first ones in the
pool.
But he was completely paralyzed.
And he and, and every time thiswater Stirred, he was reminded
of his need, but also hispowerlessness. So I come to this
(19:36):
story. And I just start reading.
I just start reading from fromverse one. Where you know, and I
sleep just for reference,because this was the Bible. This
is the translation that I hadwith me and I'm so glad I had
it. But it was the FNV which isthe First Nations version. It's
(19:57):
an indigenous translation of theNew Testament. And so if you're
I'm going to read from thatright now, but I start reading.
And it says, A short time laterCreator sets free Jesus went
ahead to the village of peace,Jerusalem, to another
traditional feast for all thetribes of wrestles with creator
(20:19):
Israel. In the village of peace,Jerusalem, near the sheep gate,
there is a waterhole with fivecovered porches called House of
kindness, Bethesda in our triballanguage. Under these porches
lay a great number of people whowere sick blind, or could not
walk or stand. They were waitingfor the swirling of the water
(20:42):
because from time to time, aspirit messenger would go down
into the waterhole and make thewater swirl. And then the first
one to get into the water wouldbe healed. A man was there who
had been ill for 38 winters,Creator sets free Jesus saw him
(21:04):
lying there and knew that he hadbeen sick for a long time. I got
to this very next line, whichsays like he asked him, Jesus,
do you want to be healed? I gotto verse seven. I didn't even
get a chance to finish to readthe whole line. I'll stop where
(21:25):
I stopped then. And I broke downweeping in that living room. His
response to Jesus question of doyou want to be healed in verse
seven was honored one, the mananswered, when the water stirs?
There is no one. I paused, Iread that I just my eyes see,
(21:47):
there is no one. And I justbroke down, weeping. Because in
that moment, I was reminded
Unknown (22:00):
why it was why why I was to look at Jesus. In that
moment, I went, Oh, this is theperson that I'm looking at.
Gabrielle Leonard (22:13):
This, this, this one who woulda knew
exactly. Who knew that man'sname who knew where he was? He
knew that he was a man withoutpower. A man without strength. I
mean, literally, that verse inverse three, when it when it's
talking about there being agreat number of sick, blind and
(22:33):
paralyze. The Greek word that'sused to define the people
literally means to be weak,feeble, be without strength,
powerless. Some, I'm picturingin this moment, Jesus. My eyes
are fixing on, on, on Christhere standing over this man
(22:57):
looking at him. This one withtotal power, and authority,
wielding his power to offerhope, restoration, and literally
elevation, elevating him fromhis place of brokenness and
(23:18):
bondage to a place of healingand wholeness. And I'm weeping.
And I'm filled with awe andwonder again, and also
conviction because I'm goingyeah, you are worthy of my
worship. And yeah, like, I likeit just just convicted. Because
I also hear I also in this,like, I'm hearing, Jesus
(23:41):
challenged me back and be like,oh, oh, I care about the poor.
The marginalize the sociallyafflicted, the criminal law, the
criminalized and the oppressed.
Like, my vision is not onlyrestored, but I hear Jesus
correcting me, or making a casefor himself and saying, like,
(24:02):
No, I do, this is who I am. I docare here, and I am moving. And
just because you don't see it,doesn't mean it's not happening.
And I'm encouraged. And there'sall in wonder that's restored to
my heart in that moment. As Isee Jesus, restoring a man
without power, and withoutstrength. And I'm just weeping
(24:27):
there, and I'm an all as I justinternalize the truth, and shed
away some of the things that Iinternalized about Christ, from
man's own brokenness. In my ownbrokenness, that was false. You
see, what's interesting, though,story's not over. That. Does
(24:52):
kind of tie in to what I've beentalking about is, I remember
there was a lady that came overto me while I'm at my face and
weeping, like I said, everyoneelse was standing up and they
were worshipping their handswere raised. And there was an
excitement and zeal in the room.
And this woman came up to me oneof the one of the leaders, and
(25:13):
in the middle of my weeping overthe chair, are like, Oh, she
didn't see my face, you know, inher defense, but she, she taps
me on the shoulder. And I lookup confused a little bit in the
days of what was about to happenwas going on. And she says, will
you worship with me? Will youworship with me? And there's
(25:35):
this impulse, there was thisimplication in her invitation of
like, it basically like of like,I'm not, hey, like, will you
worship now? Like, hey, like,Hey, look at how I'm worshiping,
right? Well, we've just beentalking about, look at how I'm
worshiping, hey, come andworship with me. And I just
looked at her and I smiled, andI said, I am and I pointed at
(25:55):
the book, but then the word thatwas in front of me, I was
reading the word and, and Ipointed down, I said, with, you
know, with the tears that areliterally streaming down my
face, and I just said, I amworshiping right now. I am
worshiping right now. I thinkthere's, there's a couple of
needs. There's a two crucialneeds that we have in our church
(26:24):
communities, they in our faith,as is, as expressed together and
in separate and separately in.
And one of those is we we mustpractice, inquiry and
reflection. The second is thatthere is a deep need for
diversity of posture in worshipin practice. First, that that
(26:45):
first one, inquiry or askingquestions, and reflection. From
that experience, I've realizedjust how important it is for us
to frequently ask the question,Who do I say Jesus is? I'm just
thinking about how like Jesusasked that question of his
(27:08):
disciples. They've been walkingwith him. And he asked them the
question, Who do you say that Iam? There was so many narratives
swirling around about Christ,while Christ was with them all.
And even he had to check in withhis disciples. Even he offered
an inquiry he offered a questionfor them to, to think about and
answer honestly, like, Who doyou say that I am? That question
(27:32):
is still relevant and cruciallyimportant for us to reflect on.
Who do we say Jesus is? I had toreflect on it in order to, to
worship in order to focus onJesus. And I think we who call
people's attention to Christ,need to reflect on that question
(27:55):
as well of Like, who do we sayJesus is? And also a second
question of what do we thinkdistracts us from Jesus? Like,
is it is it conflict? Is itdifficult situations? We have to
ask ourselves the question, whenwe redirect people to Christ, is
it for their benefit? Or is itfor our own? Is it because we're
(28:20):
uncomfortable about how they'rerelating to Christ about are we
uncomfortable about theirwrestles about their questions
about their frustration abouttheir disillusionment, or pain
or anger? Are we uncomfortable?
And are we seeking to pacify orcontrol or keep certain things
(28:42):
at distance? Or are weredirecting them? Is the
intention and motive of ourheart to truly redirect them
towards Christ for theirbenefit? So think we ask them
that question of is it for theirbenefit or mine? We'll go about
redirection in a different way.
You got to ask ourselves that,you know, am I avoiding pain? Do
(29:04):
I ever tell myself even just thethings you talk to yourself? Do
you ever say like, gosh, I needto focus on Jesus. And yes, the
the phrase itself is, is isneutral or even I'd say like
true, like, Yes, it's good focuson Jesus. But what? What is
motivating that what's drivingit? Are you are you trying to
(29:25):
avoid pain? Do you feel likeyour pain is separate from
Christ? Are you trying to avoidrepentance? Is there something
that you're being challenged by?
Or you know, possibly to wrestlewith? But in order to not do so
just like average, let's justfocus on Jesus. And then last
week, there's this need thisother question that comes up in
(29:46):
my heart is like, man, like, arewe separating, asking yourself
like, am I separating myselffrom those? I'm actually called
to be connected to like, isthere any way that like, I'm I'm
like separating myself from thevery people that I've been
called to be present with,present in their pain. And I
(30:08):
might unintentionally using thelanguage, let's just focus on
Jesus as a cop out or a way toreroute around the very thing
that's ailing the people thatI'm called to serve and care
about, that Jesus cared about.
And then there's this the in theconvention, it's crucial need of
we have got to have morediversity of posture and
(30:29):
worship. Bless her heart, thatwoman I know, she wasn't mean
anything by that. But it justfelt like Man, this is a
teachable moment here. Even justin that, that lady's response,
that woman's invitation to me,to worship with her, I am
certainly sure that it was manit was meant in the not in any
(30:51):
intentionally harmful ways. Hegenuinely was like, let me help
this girl enter in, let me helpher worship. But she didn't
realize I was and thatultimately, there's a diverse
posture of worship, and we needthat can that can happen and we
(31:11):
need more environments in whichthe and is demonstrated. We're
fixing our eyes on Jesus canlook like developing affordable
housing for underserved andintentionally neglected
communities. externalizing Jesuscan look like contemplative
prayer, peace and silence, ordemonstrative zeal and joy.
(31:34):
fixing our eyes on Jesus canlook like sorrow and questioning
and frustration, anddisillusionment, this this, this
wrestle intention, but it canalso look like deep conviction
and hope, the solution to ourpain, that we are all
experiencing the symptoms ofdivision, and we're experiencing
(31:57):
the solution to our pain anddivision that we're experiencing
right now isn't more silos andecho chambers of our own
thoughts and practices.
It's not the solution. We've gotto wrestle towards another way.
(32:19):
And embracing the end is a partof that. This like inquiry, or
questions? These questions arethe practice of questions and
reflection is necessary. Andalso like the man, the the
healing balm of like being inproximity of diversity, of
(32:40):
pasture in worship, diversity ofpractice, when it comes to
looking at Jesus verse is sonecessary and needed. It is
healing, it is medication. And Iam deeply grateful for the case
(33:00):
Christ made for himself when Igave him the opportunity to do
so. When I did wrestle, I'mgrateful that I didn't just step
into worshiping, like everyoneelse was worshiping. I'm
grateful that I didn't look atJesus, the way everyone else was
looking at Jesus. Because therewas hidden treasure in the
(33:23):
wrestle. And when I wrestled,and the picture of Christ got
even more beautiful, expanded,increase in His richness in in
in depth, and I was humbled,humbled, and in awe. And I think
there's, there's opportunitystill opportunity for us, for us
(33:47):
all to be humbled and in awe bylooking at Jesus. If you're
hearing this message, you'velistened to the entire episode.
And for that, I am deeplygrateful. I hope this episode
resonated with you and if it didhelp us out by sharing this
episode, and leaving a review onApple, podcasts, and Spotify.
(34:08):
Most importantly, reach out tolet me know how you're engaging
with this episode, and whattopics you'd like to see covered
in the future. You can connectwith us on social media, or get
in touch with me directly atGabrielle at return to joy.com
to share your heart. I'll seeyou in two weeks for a new
episode.
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