September 19, 2023 • 28 mins
Get ready to unlock the secrets of successful SDR enablement with Brett Childs.. This episode sees us peeling back the layers of the often under-appreciated role of the Sales Development Representatives (SDRs), the true warriors at the frontline of the customer journey.
Brett pulls back the curtain on his proven approach to enabling SDR teams, one that prioritizes tracking every step of the sales process and honing individual skill sets. He walks us through his system that includes watching the conversion ratios and behaviors, and using this data to pinpoint the needed skills for each individual. If you've been looking for ways to level up your SDR enablement game, this episode is what you've been waiting for.
Brett has been called a lot of things, farmhand, video game salesperson, insurance agent, manager... but, if he had to pick his favorites, it would be teacher and coach. Nothing brings more joy to him than helping others succeed.
His wife and children are his best friends and his goal in life is to experience as much of this amazing world with them as possible.
His motto for life? "Work hard, play hard!"
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society Stories from
the Trenches, where enablementpractitioners share their
real-world experiences.
Get the scoop on what'shappening inside Sales
Enablement teams across theglobal SES member community.
Each segment of Stories fromthe Trenches share the good, the
bad and the ugly practices ofcorporate sales.
Enablement initiatives learnedwhat worked, what didn't work
(00:25):
and how obstacles wereeliminated by corporate teams
and leadership.
Head back, grab a cold one andjoin host Paul Butterfield for
casual conversations about thewide and varied profession of
sales enablement, where there isnever a fits all solution.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of
Stories from the Trenches theonly podcast that is 100% biased
for us, and we bring togetherpractitioners from all over the
world who are doing cool things.
Sometimes doing cool thingsmeans you don't succeed the
first time, and we talk aboutthat frankly and sometimes they
just knock it out of the park.
Either way, we always have agood time and we always learn
(01:02):
something at least I do.
I'm excited to introduce youthis time to someone that I've
actually had the privilege ofworking with for a few years.
His name is Brett Childs.
He is currently a SalesEnablement Director at
Instructure EdTech Company.
When I first met Brett, he wasthe founding sales enabler at
Lucid and built that program outfor the first few years.
(01:23):
So welcome, brett.
Hey, thank you so much, paul.
I've been looking forward tothis Cool.
You want to maybe justintroduce yourself a little bit.
We'll do an icebreaker question, but let people know a little
bit about yourself on a personallevel.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So I have two kids.
They are absolutely amazing mylittle girl, mia, my little boy,
kenji.
We have a dance star on therise in Mia and a football star
on the rise in Kenji.
He just started flag footballthis year, so he's amazing.
And then, of course, mywonderful wife, who is so
talented in so many ways abusiness owner, a mom and just a
(01:58):
rock star in every way.
Outside of that, I've eitherbeen doing sales, sales
leadership or sales enablementmy entire career.
I think we're getting on closeto 15 years now, which is crazy,
and it's about a 30, 30, 30, or33% split between each.
I sold very actively for aboutfive years, managed teams for
(02:21):
close to five years, and nowI've been doing enablement for
just over five years and it hasbeen an amazing experience and
just learning the hard way a lotof times and now being able to
teach others from some of thosestories.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Excellent and fun fact about Brett everyone.
His wife is a published likeBig Ty published cookbook author
and yet somehow he manages towalk around swole most of the
time.
So kudos to you, brett.
Maybe a little more, I'm sureyou helped sample the recipes
that are being developed right.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So Plenty of sampling .
There's a little more swole inthe midsection than I am hoping
for, but trying, trying my best.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
All right, all right, cool, all right.
So nobody leaves without doingthe Jimmy Kimmel challenge.
So here's yours, that's good.
Kimmel retires, I'm team, I amteam Fallon, so I really don't
care if Kimmel retires, but youknow.
So let's just say he does andsomehow for your network maybe.
Lisa, she's got the New Yorkconnection right.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You get offered his show.
You can have anybody you wanton for the first episode.
Who is it and why did youchoose them?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
All right, I'm going to pick a lesser known
individual.
He's probably my YouTubefavorite, outside of my wife, of
course.
His name is Andre Jick and hehas such an interesting story.
Where he came, his parents wereimmigrants.
He came from almost nothing,learned a little bit of street
(03:54):
magic and was able to do themagician thing out in Las Vegas
for a little while, and heeventually became this
incredible investor where hesaved as much money as he
possibly could from all of hismagician gigs and then just
invested heavily in dividendstocks and just poured all of
(04:14):
his time and talent and moneyinto learning how stocks work
and how investments work and howmoney works.
And now he's an incrediblysuccessful YouTuber just talking
about his research and talkingabout trends in finance and
trends and investments.
And it's amazing how somebodywho came from immigrant parents,
(04:35):
knew nothing about money,really took a risk by saving as
much as they could and investingin something they had no idea
what they were doing and thenfrom those situations learned
wow, anybody can really learnhow investments work, how stocks
work, how dividends work, andso I'd love to have him on the
show to really help teach myselfand the average American hey,
(04:59):
you actually can pull yourselfout from the most crazy of
situations and become wealthythrough investing and trying a
little bit of risk here andthere.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That sounds really interesting.
What's his name again?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Andre Jick, and the last name is spelled J-I-K-H,
and him and I are the same age.
Thank you, yeah, him and I arethe same age too, so I was like,
whoa, that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It is very cool.
Thanks for sharing that.
I just picked up something togo watch too.
So Brett and I are going totalk about enabling SDRs.
There are a lot oforganizations I would say the
majority of organizations thatI'm personally aware of that
have a substantial investment inSDRs.
Brett, would you agree thatSDRs are really the tip of the
(05:47):
spear when it comes?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
to the customer journey.
Yes, sdrs are the tip of thespear and they are they've got
to be the most resilient of yoursales team.
They're incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
No doubt I'll be honest.
If you'd asked me before 2020and lockdown if SDRs could work
remotely, I'm sure I would havesaid no, because only because it
is such a difficult job You'regetting punched in the face
multiple times every hour and ifyou don't have a bullpen to be
able to swivel and just kind oflearn from each other or prop
(06:19):
each other up on the bad days,that sort of thing, it just I'm
happy to say I was wrong.
I know a number of SDRorganizations that thrived and
still do so.
It's interesting that we don'thear as much about SDR
enablement, because if they aresuch a critical first point of
contact and I don't want topigeonhole you because you do a
(06:41):
lot of enablement besides SDRsyour leadership enablement is
top notch, your overallenablement acumen is top notch,
but you have built over the lastfew years that I've known you
probably the best SDR enablementprogram that I've seen, and so
I appreciate you coming on dayto talk about that.
So let's start off with, Ithink, what you called earning
the right to play.
(07:02):
What does?
that mean yes.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So throughout my career I've been in SDR, I've
managed SDR teams and I'veenabled SDR teams at other
organizations.
And there are someorganizations where the culture,
depending on your product,depending on the industry that
you're serving, can really holdtight to the best that, hey, you
(07:25):
don't know us, you don't knowour processes, you don't know
who we're selling to, I don'tknow if I can actually listen to
you, and that's 100% fair.
I've been in those shoes whereI've had people from third party
organizations try to come inand teach me a methodology.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah cool, I'll take the parts that work
for me, but you don't know whoI'm talking to every day, so you
(07:47):
don't know the life Exactly.
You haven't done it.
You don't know the life, andI've since learned that I can
learn a lot from everybody.
So I've tried to really pullthat back a little bit.
But in some of the teams thatI've worked with, I've said, hey
, you know what You're right.
I don't know who you're talkingto.
I'm coming from a differentindustry.
I have learned my sales bestpractices through my experiences
(08:11):
.
Let me jump into yours, let mefind out what you're dealing
with and walk a day in yourshoes, and so I've done this
twice now, where I've talked tothe sales leaders that are
struggling with me the most andI've said please give me your 10
worst leads so that if I amabsolutely awful and I flub it
(08:32):
up, it's not a huge loss to you.
Give me your 10 worst leads andlet me work your process, start
to finish, and see what you'reexperiencing, what your team is
going through.
And I did that, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Pause.
We can fix it.
Just start over when you'reready.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I did that with a team here a couple of years ago
and I learned so much.
I said, wow, the educationindustry is different.
The teachers and admins andfaculty that are working with
these students have uniquechallenges and our SDRs have
(09:18):
unique challenges reaching outto these people.
And so when I took these 10leads, I was really going out of
the limb saying, wow, if Idon't convert a single one of
these, maybe I'm going to beeven worse, in a worse position
where nobody will want to listento me.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
So hold on a second.
Sorry to interrupt, but I wantto be really clear.
You actually jumped on thephones and did SDR work with the
leads they gave you.
I did.
That is pretty high risk, so Ijust wanted to be really clear
about that.
Okay, so continue.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yes, it was high risk .
But the good news was is, as Iwas making these calls, as I was
getting a hold of people, theleaders noticed.
They noticed they listened tomy calls.
They said, wow, brett iswilling to talk to these people,
whether he's good or not.
They didn't give me feedback onthat.
(10:11):
You didn't get any job offers.
I didn't get any job offers.
No, but they knew I was willingto do the work and feel what
they were feeling.
And it was amazing how it wasalmost like a light bulb just
turned on, a switch happened andyou know, I still had to earn a
little bit through some trialand error.
(10:32):
But the good news was is, allof a sudden they were asking me.
They said, oh well, how did youdo this in that SDR team?
And oh well, now that you knowwhat we're going through, what
would be your advice on this?
And it was amazing how it wentfrom a Always critical, not
willing to listen anything, Ihave to say, to actually asking
(10:52):
questions, and it was a reallycool experience.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And so it sounds like , whether or not you were very
good at it and, and to be fairto you, it probably been years
since you'd been an SDR.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It doesn't mean you don't know the motion, but I
guarantee even experienced SDRsDon't get a lot out of the first
10 leads that they call so.
But that didn't matter.
That wasn't the point to them.
The point was you invested inthe upfront.
Is that right?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
and it was.
It was a few months of pain, soI'm glad we got it done sooner
rather than later.
All right.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
All right.
So then, what?
What?
What happens next?
It sounds like they came to youand Asked for advice.
I don't know who is coachingper se, but at least advice.
I had to leverage that to thentake the program to the next
stage.
Great question.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So, after, after we earned the right to sit at the
table, I, what I noticed is someleaders from that moment on
were like, hey, you know we'regoing through, so please Come
tell me, tell me what I'm doingwrong.
And and they were veryreceptive and we were going back
and forth Almost on a sit twicea month basis where we would
(12:03):
just sit down, look at the teamtogether and go, hey, this
person's struggling, let's talkthrough how we can help them.
Others were still, you know,willing to talk with me but
didn't want any any coaching ontheir teams.
But I have one leaderspecifically it was it was so
great where she was reallyinterested in growing her career
(12:23):
.
She was really interested inhelping her team overcome some
big challenges because she hadessentially gotten a brand new
team in about a six month periodand and so she had all new
people.
She had like one experiencedperson that was being promoted
out and she said, hey, I've gota fresh team.
Can you please come out, sitwith me, sit with the team, and
(12:47):
I'd love to see you know how youwould start this new team.
And and so we did a lot of greatcoaching wow team where we did
some onboarding.
We talked about, you know, theproduct.
We talked about our processes,we talked about our systems, and
then every day, for the lasthour and a half, two hours, the
leader and I would sit down andtalk about how do we coach a
(13:10):
team, how do we run teammeetings, how do we speak
confidently in front of a groupthat's struggling because we're
all new?
How do we speak confidently infront of other leaders who may
be more senior to us?
How do we talk up, how do wetalk down?
How do we talk to peers?
And it was amazing how she justwas willing to absorb that
(13:31):
after she had known.
Okay, brett knows what I'mgoing through.
He's done this with other teams, and when he does this with my
team, we do a little bit better,and so that's when I got the
invite to come out.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
That's the key right there.
If you're getting results,you're helping her get results
at least.
Yeah exactly.
And, if I'm not mistaken, thetime frame for this was in the
2020 to 20 through 2021 timeframe, when, when the SDRs were
dealing with all kinds of otherchange right.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yes, yeah, it was 2021 and it was a tumultuous
time.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, okay, very tumultuous.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I remember I had to get all of my vaccines up to
date before I went out there,because Australia had just
barely opened up in thatsituation.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
All right, so you started to talk about Numbers
and getting the numbers tochange.
Can you share with us yourmethodology or what the approach
that you were implementing withthat leader and maybe other
leaders that Let you do that?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
work and track.
Yes, actually, this specific IWouldn't even call it a
methodology.
It's just what I used when Iwas an SDR leader.
That really helped me focus inon Enabling people each
individual on my team withreally what they needed.
Instead of we still had teammeetings and we would have
(14:48):
blanket trainings, but in myone-on-ones they were very, very
focused on numbers, and so whatI did okay was I would
essentially Just create aspreadsheet.
It was very manual and thankgoodness there's a lot of
companies out there that can dothis automatically for you now
but it was very, very manual.
But it taught me so much whereI would document every single
(15:10):
step in the sales process for mySDR team, from from receiving a
lead To a successful Handoffcall.
When I say successful meeting,an opportunity was actually
generated because my team, whenI had an SDR team, got comped on
number of handoff calls butalso number of successful
handoff calls that turned intoopportunities.
(15:31):
That was just our compstructure and so I documented
excellent sense.
I, yeah, I document everyconversion ratio from lead to
that handoff call.
So lead to first call, firstcall to qualification,
qualification to handoff call,handoff call to successful
(15:51):
handoff call, and I wouldessentially document how many
activities it would take to getfrom point A to point B, point B
to point C, c to D and so onand so forth.
And then I also documented whatare the behaviors associated
with each of those.
Because that first call,obviously we're talking about
(16:13):
our outbound sequencing andmessaging.
We're talking about our firstscript, our first 15 seconds on
the phone call just to see ifsomebody's willing to continue
the conversation.
We're talking about the typesof discovery questions we ask on
that very first call versus oursecond and third call.
And so what I was able to dowith my team is see who is being
(16:35):
successful at these differentconversion points, who was
struggling, and then, reallyhyper, observe my successful
people at those points, shadowthem, ask them questions in our
one-on-ones and say, hey, wouldyou mind either doing a training
or can I take what you're doingand maybe see if I or you would
(16:58):
be willing to help this otherperson and do a little bit of
shadowing, do a little bit ofcoaching?
And so I took these numbers andessentially created a very
simplified version for all ofour SDR leaders here at
Instructure and said, hey, thisis the best way for you to be.
Well, in my opinion, the bestway for you to be able to hyper
(17:20):
focus on the skills needed forthat conversion point for that
individual.
So no longer is your one-on-onehey, you're not hitting the
goal, please do better.
Or hey, you're not hitting thegoal, please read this book.
It's hey, you're not hittingthe goal.
And here's the three behaviorsthat I've noticed across the
(17:41):
team that are successful at thispoint.
To help.
Let's have a conversation aboutthat.
Let's look at two or three callrecordings.
At that point it's constructiveand actionable 100%.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, I used to work for somebody that called that
other kind of feedback.
I used to work for somebodythat referred to feedback that
wasn't constructive andactionable as drive-by feedback,
which I always thought was kindof a funny term, but it's sadly
used too often.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yes, it's amazing how telling somebody to do better
with maybe more words or lesswords can be one of the most
deflating comments, Even ifyou're just trying to encourage
them.
You're trying to lift them upby just saying, hey, I know you
can do it.
If you do better at closingmore deals, you're going to make
(18:29):
more money.
It's like, yeah, I'm tryingthat already.
Yeah, that has always been mygoal.
Duh, and it's amazing how, ifyou can focus in on a behavior
associated with a metric, thatperson can get excited.
They can go oh, I have nottried that.
Or hey, I have tried that.
(18:49):
What else do you think mightwork?
And you can do a lot moreconstructive building of a plan
together.
And that leads me to my favoritesaying that I tell each and
every one of my leaders is whenI sit down with my kids and
we're drawing pictures, I coulddraw the Mona Lisa and they
(19:10):
could draw a stick figuredinosaur.
The stick figure dinosaur iswhat's going up on the fridge.
They go cool dad, nice picture.
But I drew this Through thistype of coaching, where you're
collaborating together on whatbehaviors could improve a
specific metric, and they arethe ones bringing forth ideas,
(19:30):
they are the ones challengingyou on your ideas.
All of a sudden they're willingto put that picture on the
fridge far more than you justdictating hey, you need to make
20 more calls where you'reasking this discovery question.
No, let's extend thatconversation five more minutes
and help them get to thatconclusion.
So they're willing to adoptthat plan versus a dictation.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I love that analogy with the pictures.
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
With SDRs with anybody really, but we're
talking about SDRs today.
An enablement challenge isoften too much sit and get.
Retention is always difficult,even in the best training
environment, but there's justtoo many times, at least in my
experience with, like I say,there's just too much sit and
get.
What has your formula,successful formula, been to
(20:20):
maximize the training time youdo get in front of these SDRs
and make it a better experiencefor them and hopefully stickier.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, great question.
So a big part of my experiencewith SDRs is and really with
human beings in general is, themore you can put your hands on
something and start touching it,the more likely you're going to
figure it out faster.
Yes, the instruction manual isrequired, but I tell you what,
(20:50):
when I get a new lawnmower and Igot to put the pieces together,
I just got to get started andthen when I get stuck, go look
at the manual.
Right, some people are verydifferent, but I know this,
especially with our SDRs, whenwe are together, especially
focusing on one of thosebehaviors associated with the
metric, practice time is key.
(21:10):
We got to know the why.
We got to start with the why.
We all hear about that.
Start with the why, but getinto the hands-on content where
we're taking that why andapplying it as soon as possible.
And so typically my structurewhen we're focused on a metric
where the manager has actuallysaid hey, brett, we're focused
on this metric, we're focused onthis behavior.
(21:33):
Will you help us create a livesession where we can train this?
And that word training is sofunny because a lot of people
understand that as sit and get,but we have completely thrown
that out the door with our SDRs.
We typically have a structure ofabout 10 to 15 minutes where we
talk about the why.
We have a brief discussionabout why are we talking about
(21:54):
this, why is this behaviorimpactful and why, if you try
something new, could you see anew result.
Then the bulk of the meetinglet's say we have a 50-minute
structure, 25 minutes is gettingin there and working on
scenarios.
So I do a lot of pre-work toour live sessions.
I will, before the meeting,take two or three hours and meet
(22:16):
with product marketing tounderstand their research in the
industry and throw scenarios bythem and say is this realistic?
Is this what you have seen inthe field?
I'll meet with some of the SDRsand say, hey, I'm writing this
scenario.
Is this anywhere similar towhat you're experiencing and how
would you say that's different?
(22:36):
I'll meet with the managers andsay, hey, this is the behavior
we're looking for and this isthe scenario I've crafted for us
to practice around this.
What am I missing?
And so I'll really have acommunity of people making sure
that whatever we're practicingis truly realistic.
But I always go in with thepremise of this is the place to
(22:57):
make mistakes, this is the placeto try new things.
This is the place where, afteryou've learned the why Safe
space, yeah, safe place whereyou've learned the why, let's
just start feeling it out.
And so for 25 to 30 minutes wewill do that, and then at the
end we recap and this is the keythe managers will assign the
homework, because in theone-on-one is where that
(23:19):
follow-up happens.
So I give the whole floor backover to the manager and say
managers, all you to close thisout.
What I've also noticed is thatreally allows the managers to
stay in authority.
It gives that power to them tosay this is my team, this is my
program, brett is here helpingme, which I am all for, and it
(23:41):
gives them that power tocontinue on the conversation
beyond this trainingquote-unquote.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I like that format.
I'm just sitting hereprocessing it.
So I'm sure, because we believeit or not, our time is coming
up, at least.
So let me ask you this I'm surethat there are people listening
right now that are thinkingabout SDR enablement in a
different way, whether theyalready have some in SDR
enablement, whether they don'thave any special SDR enablement.
(24:09):
So, either way, what are somefirst steps that you recommend
for people that are thinkingthat way now?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, great question.
I honestly think the sooner youcan earn the right to play, the
sooner you can sit in theirshoes, even if it's just for one
day where you take a handful ofleads and if you're too scared
which I get.
Some of us are not coming fromsales backgrounds, some of us
(24:39):
are very academic here inenablement and we need both
Overcome it.
Get out there, make even two orthree phone calls in with the
SDR leader shadowing you so youcan ask for feedback and go.
Is that what your team isexperiencing?
Is this normal?
How is this going for your team?
So I'd say, get a leader twounder your belt as soon as you
(25:01):
can.
Shadow those SDRs as much as youcan those first couple of weeks
so you can truly feel what theyare feeling and then focus in
on what's in it for them.
What are the behaviorsassociated with each one that
can help them hit their goals?
Because if it's a rah rah,shish kumbah hey, I'm excited to
(25:25):
be here in enablement and teachyou guys new things they're
going to probably quickly shutyou down until they know that
you can feel what comes to thephone.
Exactly, yeah, exactly.
So get in there, try it out.
Shadow, light, crazy.
Before you make anyrecommendations, appreciate that
.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, again, we're time, almost time to wrap up,
but I don't want to let you gowithout having to just drop some
life wisdom on us.
So doesn't have to do anything.
With enablement, it's up to you.
But you're given the gift oftime travel and you're allowed
to go back and coach young Bretton anything, but you're only
(26:06):
allowed to do one topic.
What do you wish you'dunderstood earlier in life?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Oh man, such a great question.
I'd probably tell myself.
What I oftentimes tell my kidsnow because I hope that they're
better than me is every singleperson you meet knows something
more than you do, whether it's awork skill, whether it's a
(26:35):
interpersonal skill, whetherit's a financial skill, whatever
it is, they have something morethan you do in some area, and
so never hold yourself aboveanyone.
I thought I was a little coolerthan I was when I was younger
and now, looking back, I go wow,I have so much to learn from
(26:57):
every person I meet.
How dare I ever think I am everabove anyone If I ever have any
ego?
That is completely out the doornow, because I've been shown
many times, sometimes in themost rough ways.
No, you really don't know whatyou're talking about on this
topic.
Let me show you.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, you don't have to commenton this, but I think you'd
agree that we both married upand that is one of the benefits
of that relationship.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
No doubt.
Yes, both very kind words andsome saying honey, you just
don't know what you're talkingabout and I go.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That's right.
That's right.
What were you thinking?
Yeah, so all right.
Well, brett, we reallyappreciate your time.
Like I said, I've been doingthis over three years and I'm
not sure why we haven't hit this, but I'm excited that, now that
we have, you were able to sharesome very specific and
(27:58):
thoughtful experiences and somegreat ideas for people moving
forward.
If anyone wants to follow up orask you a bit about what you've
heard, or maybe even somethingelse, is LinkedIn the best place
to find you.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
I love LinkedIn.
It's the only social that Iactually look at every day.
All the others are oh my gosh.
That's another topic we cantalk about.
So LinkedIn, come find me.
Yeah, I love chatting aboutthis topic and helping in any
way I can.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you, brett, and thank you to everybody that's
invested another half hour ofyour time with us.
We appreciate it.
We wouldn't be here and able todo what we do without you.
So stay safe the next two weeks, and then we'll be back with
another new episode.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Thanks for joining this episode of Stories from the
Trenches.
For more sales enablementresources, be sure to join the
Sales Enablement Society atsesocietyorg.
That's s-e-s-o-c-i-e-t-y doto-r-g.
Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society Stories from
the Trenches, where enablementpractitioners share their
real-world experiences.
Get the scoop on what'shappening inside Sales
Enablement teams across theglobal SES member community.
Each segment of Stories fromthe Trenches share the good, the
bad and the ugly practices ofcorporate sales.
Enablement initiatives learnedwhat worked, what didn't work
(00:25):
and how obstacles wereeliminated by corporate teams
and leadership.
Head back, grab a cold one andjoin host Paul Butterfield for
casual conversations about thewide and varied profession of
sales enablement, where there isnever a fits all solution.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello and welcome back to another episode of
Stories from the Trenches theonly podcast that is 100% biased
for us, and we bring togetherpractitioners from all over the
world who are doing cool things.
Sometimes doing cool thingsmeans you don't succeed the
first time, and we talk aboutthat frankly and sometimes they
just knock it out of the park.
Either way, we always have agood time and we always learn
(01:02):
something at least I do.
I'm excited to introduce youthis time to someone that I've
actually had the privilege ofworking with for a few years.
His name is Brett Childs.
He is currently a SalesEnablement Director at
Instructure EdTech Company.
When I first met Brett, he wasthe founding sales enabler at
Lucid and built that program outfor the first few years.
(01:23):
So welcome, brett.
Hey, thank you so much, paul.
I've been looking forward tothis Cool.
You want to maybe justintroduce yourself a little bit.
We'll do an icebreaker question, but let people know a little
bit about yourself on a personallevel.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So I have two kids.
They are absolutely amazing mylittle girl, mia, my little boy,
kenji.
We have a dance star on therise in Mia and a football star
on the rise in Kenji.
He just started flag footballthis year, so he's amazing.
And then, of course, mywonderful wife, who is so
talented in so many ways abusiness owner, a mom and just a
(01:58):
rock star in every way.
Outside of that, I've eitherbeen doing sales, sales
leadership or sales enablementmy entire career.
I think we're getting on closeto 15 years now, which is crazy,
and it's about a 30, 30, 30, or33% split between each.
I sold very actively for aboutfive years, managed teams for
(02:21):
close to five years, and nowI've been doing enablement for
just over five years and it hasbeen an amazing experience and
just learning the hard way a lotof times and now being able to
teach others from some of thosestories.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Excellent and fun fact about Brett everyone.
His wife is a published likeBig Ty published cookbook author
and yet somehow he manages towalk around swole most of the
time.
So kudos to you, brett.
Maybe a little more, I'm sureyou helped sample the recipes
that are being developed right.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So Plenty of sampling .
There's a little more swole inthe midsection than I am hoping
for, but trying, trying my best.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
All right, all right, cool, all right.
So nobody leaves without doingthe Jimmy Kimmel challenge.
So here's yours, that's good.
Kimmel retires, I'm team, I amteam Fallon, so I really don't
care if Kimmel retires, but youknow.
So let's just say he does andsomehow for your network maybe.
Lisa, she's got the New Yorkconnection right.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
You get offered his show.
You can have anybody you wanton for the first episode.
Who is it and why did youchoose them?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
All right, I'm going to pick a lesser known
individual.
He's probably my YouTubefavorite, outside of my wife, of
course.
His name is Andre Jick and hehas such an interesting story.
Where he came, his parents wereimmigrants.
He came from almost nothing,learned a little bit of street
(03:54):
magic and was able to do themagician thing out in Las Vegas
for a little while, and heeventually became this
incredible investor where hesaved as much money as he
possibly could from all of hismagician gigs and then just
invested heavily in dividendstocks and just poured all of
(04:14):
his time and talent and moneyinto learning how stocks work
and how investments work and howmoney works.
And now he's an incrediblysuccessful YouTuber just talking
about his research and talkingabout trends in finance and
trends and investments.
And it's amazing how somebodywho came from immigrant parents,
(04:35):
knew nothing about money,really took a risk by saving as
much as they could and investingin something they had no idea
what they were doing and thenfrom those situations learned
wow, anybody can really learnhow investments work, how stocks
work, how dividends work, andso I'd love to have him on the
show to really help teach myselfand the average American hey,
(04:59):
you actually can pull yourselfout from the most crazy of
situations and become wealthythrough investing and trying a
little bit of risk here andthere.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That sounds really interesting.
What's his name again?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Andre Jick, and the last name is spelled J-I-K-H,
and him and I are the same age.
Thank you, yeah, him and I arethe same age too, so I was like,
whoa, that's really cool.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
It is very cool.
Thanks for sharing that.
I just picked up something togo watch too.
So Brett and I are going totalk about enabling SDRs.
There are a lot oforganizations I would say the
majority of organizations thatI'm personally aware of that
have a substantial investment inSDRs.
Brett, would you agree thatSDRs are really the tip of the
(05:47):
spear when it comes?
Speaker 3 (05:48):
to the customer journey.
Yes, sdrs are the tip of thespear and they are they've got
to be the most resilient of yoursales team.
They're incredible.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
No doubt I'll be honest.
If you'd asked me before 2020and lockdown if SDRs could work
remotely, I'm sure I would havesaid no, because only because it
is such a difficult job You'regetting punched in the face
multiple times every hour and ifyou don't have a bullpen to be
able to swivel and just kind oflearn from each other or prop
(06:19):
each other up on the bad days,that sort of thing, it just I'm
happy to say I was wrong.
I know a number of SDRorganizations that thrived and
still do so.
It's interesting that we don'thear as much about SDR
enablement, because if they aresuch a critical first point of
contact and I don't want topigeonhole you because you do a
(06:41):
lot of enablement besides SDRsyour leadership enablement is
top notch, your overallenablement acumen is top notch,
but you have built over the lastfew years that I've known you
probably the best SDR enablementprogram that I've seen, and so
I appreciate you coming on dayto talk about that.
So let's start off with, Ithink, what you called earning
the right to play.
(07:02):
What does?
that mean yes.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So throughout my career I've been in SDR, I've
managed SDR teams and I'veenabled SDR teams at other
organizations.
And there are someorganizations where the culture,
depending on your product,depending on the industry that
you're serving, can really holdtight to the best that, hey, you
(07:25):
don't know us, you don't knowour processes, you don't know
who we're selling to, I don'tknow if I can actually listen to
you, and that's 100% fair.
I've been in those shoes whereI've had people from third party
organizations try to come inand teach me a methodology.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah cool, I'll take the parts that work
for me, but you don't know whoI'm talking to every day, so you
(07:47):
don't know the life Exactly.
You haven't done it.
You don't know the life, andI've since learned that I can
learn a lot from everybody.
So I've tried to really pullthat back a little bit.
But in some of the teams thatI've worked with, I've said, hey
, you know what You're right.
I don't know who you're talkingto.
I'm coming from a differentindustry.
I have learned my sales bestpractices through my experiences
(08:11):
.
Let me jump into yours, let mefind out what you're dealing
with and walk a day in yourshoes, and so I've done this
twice now, where I've talked tothe sales leaders that are
struggling with me the most andI've said please give me your 10
worst leads so that if I amabsolutely awful and I flub it
(08:32):
up, it's not a huge loss to you.
Give me your 10 worst leads andlet me work your process, start
to finish, and see what you'reexperiencing, what your team is
going through.
And I did that, excuse me.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Pause.
We can fix it.
Just start over when you'reready.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
I did that with a team here a couple of years ago
and I learned so much.
I said, wow, the educationindustry is different.
The teachers and admins andfaculty that are working with
these students have uniquechallenges and our SDRs have
(09:18):
unique challenges reaching outto these people.
And so when I took these 10leads, I was really going out of
the limb saying, wow, if Idon't convert a single one of
these, maybe I'm going to beeven worse, in a worse position
where nobody will want to listento me.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
So hold on a second.
Sorry to interrupt, but I wantto be really clear.
You actually jumped on thephones and did SDR work with the
leads they gave you.
I did.
That is pretty high risk, so Ijust wanted to be really clear
about that.
Okay, so continue.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Yes, it was high risk .
But the good news was is, as Iwas making these calls, as I was
getting a hold of people, theleaders noticed.
They noticed they listened tomy calls.
They said, wow, brett iswilling to talk to these people,
whether he's good or not.
They didn't give me feedback onthat.
(10:11):
You didn't get any job offers.
I didn't get any job offers.
No, but they knew I was willingto do the work and feel what
they were feeling.
And it was amazing how it wasalmost like a light bulb just
turned on, a switch happened andyou know, I still had to earn a
little bit through some trialand error.
(10:32):
But the good news was is, allof a sudden they were asking me.
They said, oh well, how did youdo this in that SDR team?
And oh well, now that you knowwhat we're going through, what
would be your advice on this?
And it was amazing how it wentfrom a Always critical, not
willing to listen anything, Ihave to say, to actually asking
(10:52):
questions, and it was a reallycool experience.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And so it sounds like , whether or not you were very
good at it and, and to be fairto you, it probably been years
since you'd been an SDR.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
It doesn't mean you don't know the motion, but I
guarantee even experienced SDRsDon't get a lot out of the first
10 leads that they call so.
But that didn't matter.
That wasn't the point to them.
The point was you invested inthe upfront.
Is that right?
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
and it was.
It was a few months of pain, soI'm glad we got it done sooner
rather than later.
All right.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
All right.
So then, what?
What?
What happens next?
It sounds like they came to youand Asked for advice.
I don't know who is coachingper se, but at least advice.
I had to leverage that to thentake the program to the next
stage.
Great question.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
So, after, after we earned the right to sit at the
table, I, what I noticed is someleaders from that moment on
were like, hey, you know we'regoing through, so please Come
tell me, tell me what I'm doingwrong.
And and they were veryreceptive and we were going back
and forth Almost on a sit twicea month basis where we would
(12:03):
just sit down, look at the teamtogether and go, hey, this
person's struggling, let's talkthrough how we can help them.
Others were still, you know,willing to talk with me but
didn't want any any coaching ontheir teams.
But I have one leaderspecifically it was it was so
great where she was reallyinterested in growing her career
(12:23):
.
She was really interested inhelping her team overcome some
big challenges because she hadessentially gotten a brand new
team in about a six month periodand and so she had all new
people.
She had like one experiencedperson that was being promoted
out and she said, hey, I've gota fresh team.
Can you please come out, sitwith me, sit with the team, and
(12:47):
I'd love to see you know how youwould start this new team.
And and so we did a lot of greatcoaching wow team where we did
some onboarding.
We talked about, you know, theproduct.
We talked about our processes,we talked about our systems, and
then every day, for the lasthour and a half, two hours, the
leader and I would sit down andtalk about how do we coach a
(13:10):
team, how do we run teammeetings, how do we speak
confidently in front of a groupthat's struggling because we're
all new?
How do we speak confidently infront of other leaders who may
be more senior to us?
How do we talk up, how do wetalk down?
How do we talk to peers?
And it was amazing how she justwas willing to absorb that
(13:31):
after she had known.
Okay, brett knows what I'mgoing through.
He's done this with other teams, and when he does this with my
team, we do a little bit better,and so that's when I got the
invite to come out.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
That's the key right there.
If you're getting results,you're helping her get results
at least.
Yeah exactly.
And, if I'm not mistaken, thetime frame for this was in the
2020 to 20 through 2021 timeframe, when, when the SDRs were
dealing with all kinds of otherchange right.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yes, yeah, it was 2021 and it was a tumultuous
time.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, okay, very tumultuous.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
I remember I had to get all of my vaccines up to
date before I went out there,because Australia had just
barely opened up in thatsituation.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
All right, so you started to talk about Numbers
and getting the numbers tochange.
Can you share with us yourmethodology or what the approach
that you were implementing withthat leader and maybe other
leaders that Let you do that?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
work and track.
Yes, actually, this specific IWouldn't even call it a
methodology.
It's just what I used when Iwas an SDR leader.
That really helped me focus inon Enabling people each
individual on my team withreally what they needed.
Instead of we still had teammeetings and we would have
(14:48):
blanket trainings, but in myone-on-ones they were very, very
focused on numbers, and so whatI did okay was I would
essentially Just create aspreadsheet.
It was very manual and thankgoodness there's a lot of
companies out there that can dothis automatically for you now
but it was very, very manual.
But it taught me so much whereI would document every single
(15:10):
step in the sales process for mySDR team, from from receiving a
lead To a successful Handoffcall.
When I say successful meeting,an opportunity was actually
generated because my team, whenI had an SDR team, got comped on
number of handoff calls butalso number of successful
handoff calls that turned intoopportunities.
(15:31):
That was just our compstructure and so I documented
excellent sense.
I, yeah, I document everyconversion ratio from lead to
that handoff call.
So lead to first call, firstcall to qualification,
qualification to handoff call,handoff call to successful
(15:51):
handoff call, and I wouldessentially document how many
activities it would take to getfrom point A to point B, point B
to point C, c to D and so onand so forth.
And then I also documented whatare the behaviors associated
with each of those.
Because that first call,obviously we're talking about
(16:13):
our outbound sequencing andmessaging.
We're talking about our firstscript, our first 15 seconds on
the phone call just to see ifsomebody's willing to continue
the conversation.
We're talking about the typesof discovery questions we ask on
that very first call versus oursecond and third call.
And so what I was able to dowith my team is see who is being
(16:35):
successful at these differentconversion points, who was
struggling, and then, reallyhyper, observe my successful
people at those points, shadowthem, ask them questions in our
one-on-ones and say, hey, wouldyou mind either doing a training
or can I take what you're doingand maybe see if I or you would
(16:58):
be willing to help this otherperson and do a little bit of
shadowing, do a little bit ofcoaching?
And so I took these numbers andessentially created a very
simplified version for all ofour SDR leaders here at
Instructure and said, hey, thisis the best way for you to be.
Well, in my opinion, the bestway for you to be able to hyper
(17:20):
focus on the skills needed forthat conversion point for that
individual.
So no longer is your one-on-onehey, you're not hitting the
goal, please do better.
Or hey, you're not hitting thegoal, please read this book.
It's hey, you're not hittingthe goal.
And here's the three behaviorsthat I've noticed across the
(17:41):
team that are successful at thispoint.
To help.
Let's have a conversation aboutthat.
Let's look at two or three callrecordings.
At that point it's constructiveand actionable 100%.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yes, I used to work for somebody that called that
other kind of feedback.
I used to work for somebodythat referred to feedback that
wasn't constructive andactionable as drive-by feedback,
which I always thought was kindof a funny term, but it's sadly
used too often.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Yes, it's amazing how telling somebody to do better
with maybe more words or lesswords can be one of the most
deflating comments, Even ifyou're just trying to encourage
them.
You're trying to lift them upby just saying, hey, I know you
can do it.
If you do better at closingmore deals, you're going to make
(18:29):
more money.
It's like, yeah, I'm tryingthat already.
Yeah, that has always been mygoal.
Duh, and it's amazing how, ifyou can focus in on a behavior
associated with a metric, thatperson can get excited.
They can go oh, I have nottried that.
Or hey, I have tried that.
(18:49):
What else do you think mightwork?
And you can do a lot moreconstructive building of a plan
together.
And that leads me to my favoritesaying that I tell each and
every one of my leaders is whenI sit down with my kids and
we're drawing pictures, I coulddraw the Mona Lisa and they
(19:10):
could draw a stick figuredinosaur.
The stick figure dinosaur iswhat's going up on the fridge.
They go cool dad, nice picture.
But I drew this Through thistype of coaching, where you're
collaborating together on whatbehaviors could improve a
specific metric, and they arethe ones bringing forth ideas,
(19:30):
they are the ones challengingyou on your ideas.
All of a sudden they're willingto put that picture on the
fridge far more than you justdictating hey, you need to make
20 more calls where you'reasking this discovery question.
No, let's extend thatconversation five more minutes
and help them get to thatconclusion.
So they're willing to adoptthat plan versus a dictation.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I love that analogy with the pictures.
That's a good one.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
With SDRs with anybody really, but we're
talking about SDRs today.
An enablement challenge isoften too much sit and get.
Retention is always difficult,even in the best training
environment, but there's justtoo many times, at least in my
experience with, like I say,there's just too much sit and
get.
What has your formula,successful formula, been to
(20:20):
maximize the training time youdo get in front of these SDRs
and make it a better experiencefor them and hopefully stickier.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, great question.
So a big part of my experiencewith SDRs is and really with
human beings in general is, themore you can put your hands on
something and start touching it,the more likely you're going to
figure it out faster.
Yes, the instruction manual isrequired, but I tell you what,
(20:50):
when I get a new lawnmower and Igot to put the pieces together,
I just got to get started andthen when I get stuck, go look
at the manual.
Right, some people are verydifferent, but I know this,
especially with our SDRs, whenwe are together, especially
focusing on one of thosebehaviors associated with the
metric, practice time is key.
(21:10):
We got to know the why.
We got to start with the why.
We all hear about that.
Start with the why, but getinto the hands-on content where
we're taking that why andapplying it as soon as possible.
And so typically my structurewhen we're focused on a metric
where the manager has actuallysaid hey, brett, we're focused
on this metric, we're focused onthis behavior.
(21:33):
Will you help us create a livesession where we can train this?
And that word training is sofunny because a lot of people
understand that as sit and get,but we have completely thrown
that out the door with our SDRs.
We typically have a structure ofabout 10 to 15 minutes where we
talk about the why.
We have a brief discussionabout why are we talking about
(21:54):
this, why is this behaviorimpactful and why, if you try
something new, could you see anew result.
Then the bulk of the meetinglet's say we have a 50-minute
structure, 25 minutes is gettingin there and working on
scenarios.
So I do a lot of pre-work toour live sessions.
I will, before the meeting,take two or three hours and meet
(22:16):
with product marketing tounderstand their research in the
industry and throw scenarios bythem and say is this realistic?
Is this what you have seen inthe field?
I'll meet with some of the SDRsand say, hey, I'm writing this
scenario.
Is this anywhere similar towhat you're experiencing and how
would you say that's different?
(22:36):
I'll meet with the managers andsay, hey, this is the behavior
we're looking for and this isthe scenario I've crafted for us
to practice around this.
What am I missing?
And so I'll really have acommunity of people making sure
that whatever we're practicingis truly realistic.
But I always go in with thepremise of this is the place to
(22:57):
make mistakes, this is the placeto try new things.
This is the place where, afteryou've learned the why Safe
space, yeah, safe place whereyou've learned the why, let's
just start feeling it out.
And so for 25 to 30 minutes wewill do that, and then at the
end we recap and this is the keythe managers will assign the
homework, because in theone-on-one is where that
(23:19):
follow-up happens.
So I give the whole floor backover to the manager and say
managers, all you to close thisout.
What I've also noticed is thatreally allows the managers to
stay in authority.
It gives that power to them tosay this is my team, this is my
program, brett is here helpingme, which I am all for, and it
(23:41):
gives them that power tocontinue on the conversation
beyond this trainingquote-unquote.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
I like that format.
I'm just sitting hereprocessing it.
So I'm sure, because we believeit or not, our time is coming
up, at least.
So let me ask you this I'm surethat there are people listening
right now that are thinkingabout SDR enablement in a
different way, whether theyalready have some in SDR
enablement, whether they don'thave any special SDR enablement.
(24:09):
So, either way, what are somefirst steps that you recommend
for people that are thinkingthat way now?
Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, great question.
I honestly think the sooner youcan earn the right to play, the
sooner you can sit in theirshoes, even if it's just for one
day where you take a handful ofleads and if you're too scared
which I get.
Some of us are not coming fromsales backgrounds, some of us
(24:39):
are very academic here inenablement and we need both
Overcome it.
Get out there, make even two orthree phone calls in with the
SDR leader shadowing you so youcan ask for feedback and go.
Is that what your team isexperiencing?
Is this normal?
How is this going for your team?
So I'd say, get a leader twounder your belt as soon as you
(25:01):
can.
Shadow those SDRs as much as youcan those first couple of weeks
so you can truly feel what theyare feeling and then focus in
on what's in it for them.
What are the behaviorsassociated with each one that
can help them hit their goals?
Because if it's a rah rah,shish kumbah hey, I'm excited to
(25:25):
be here in enablement and teachyou guys new things they're
going to probably quickly shutyou down until they know that
you can feel what comes to thephone.
Exactly, yeah, exactly.
So get in there, try it out.
Shadow, light, crazy.
Before you make anyrecommendations, appreciate that
.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, again, we're time, almost time to wrap up,
but I don't want to let you gowithout having to just drop some
life wisdom on us.
So doesn't have to do anything.
With enablement, it's up to you.
But you're given the gift oftime travel and you're allowed
to go back and coach young Bretton anything, but you're only
(26:06):
allowed to do one topic.
What do you wish you'dunderstood earlier in life?
Speaker 3 (26:12):
Oh man, such a great question.
I'd probably tell myself.
What I oftentimes tell my kidsnow because I hope that they're
better than me is every singleperson you meet knows something
more than you do, whether it's awork skill, whether it's a
(26:35):
interpersonal skill, whetherit's a financial skill, whatever
it is, they have something morethan you do in some area, and
so never hold yourself aboveanyone.
I thought I was a little coolerthan I was when I was younger
and now, looking back, I go wow,I have so much to learn from
(26:57):
every person I meet.
How dare I ever think I am everabove anyone If I ever have any
ego?
That is completely out the doornow, because I've been shown
many times, sometimes in themost rough ways.
No, you really don't know whatyou're talking about on this
topic.
Let me show you.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, you don't have to commenton this, but I think you'd
agree that we both married upand that is one of the benefits
of that relationship.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
No doubt.
Yes, both very kind words andsome saying honey, you just
don't know what you're talkingabout and I go.
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
That's right.
That's right.
What were you thinking?
Yeah, so all right.
Well, brett, we reallyappreciate your time.
Like I said, I've been doingthis over three years and I'm
not sure why we haven't hit this, but I'm excited that, now that
we have, you were able to sharesome very specific and
(27:58):
thoughtful experiences and somegreat ideas for people moving
forward.
If anyone wants to follow up orask you a bit about what you've
heard, or maybe even somethingelse, is LinkedIn the best place
to find you.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
I love LinkedIn.
It's the only social that Iactually look at every day.
All the others are oh my gosh.
That's another topic we cantalk about.
So LinkedIn, come find me.
Yeah, I love chatting aboutthis topic and helping in any
way I can.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you, brett, and thank you to everybody that's
invested another half hour ofyour time with us.
We appreciate it.
We wouldn't be here and able todo what we do without you.
So stay safe the next two weeks, and then we'll be back with
another new episode.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Thanks for joining this episode of Stories from the
Trenches.
For more sales enablementresources, be sure to join the
Sales Enablement Society atsesocietyorg.
That's s-e-s-o-c-i-e-t-y doto-r-g.
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