November 21, 2023 • 32 mins
Ever wondered how to successfully make the shift from "doing digital" to "being digital"? In this episode Paul "Norf" Norford, VP of Global Enablement at Ivanti enlightens us with his insights on this topic and discusses the usage of digital platforms like YouTube and LinkedIn for skill enhancement.
- What are the digital aspects of Enablement?
- Doing digital vs. being digital
- Using micro learning and JIT training
- Leading with stories
Paul ‘Norf’ Norford is the VP Sales Enablement and Chief Evangelist at Ivanti. He's super-passionate about helping people, partners and customers change the way they do business. Norf brings vast industry knowledge, influence, insight, creativity and passion to drive the introduction and adoption of new solutions and services to increase supply chain and I.T productivity and operational excellence.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society Stories from
the Trenches, where enablementpractitioners share their
real-world experiences.
Get the scoop on what'shappening inside Sales
Enablement teams across theglobal SES member community.
Each segment of Stories fromthe Trenches share the good, the
bad and the ugly practices ofcorporate sales.
Enablement initiatives learnedwhat worked, what didn't work
(00:25):
and how obstacles wereeliminated by corporate teams
and leadership.
Get back, grab a cold one andjoin host Paul Butterfield for
casual conversations about thewide and varied profession of
sales enablement, where there isnever a fits all solution.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome everyone back to another episode of Stories
from Trenches, the only, as faras we know, podcast that's truly
by enablers for enablers andwhere we bring together leaders
and individual contributors fromall across the world that are
doing innovative and differentthings and seeing success.
Or sometimes we talk about whenit didn't go as well as they
(01:01):
thought and how they backed upand ran at it and was successful
again.
Sometimes just as much learningthere.
So before I introduce today'sguest, which I'm very excited to
do, I want to ask you all aquestion Are your marketing and
sales teams playing welltogether?
Are they still playing the sameold game?
You know what I'm talking aboutMarketing creating loads of
content that just gathersdigital dust.
(01:23):
Sales teams are onboarded withlengthy and, frankly, snooze
training, underwhelming buyerexperiences.
You know today's sellers andbuyers expect so much more.
So time out To take it to thenext level, you need a modern
approach.
With Allegos, modern revenueenablement, the go to market
team can unify and synthesizetheir best stories to delight
(01:45):
customers and deliver results.
Game over.
Ready to up your game?
Go to wwwalegocom.
All right, everyone.
So now, as promised, I want tointroduce you to our guest.
His name is Paul Norford.
He is the VP of globalenablement at Ivante, and
(02:08):
actually a lot of us know him asNorf, so if you hear me say
that at some point, don't besurprised.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So welcome Paul, it's nice to have you here, it's
great to be here, paul, and youmight actually feel like this is
a bit of a Paul convention, soI like the fact that you call me
Paul.
That's great, p2.
Maybe we call the echo.
Maybe we should.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
All right.
So why not just share a littlebit about yourself and the work
you're doing, and then we'lljump into the James Corden
challenge.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Sure, okay.
So firstly, paul, it's great tobe on the show.
I'm a massive fan of thepodcast and I only recently
discovered it probably a year,maybe 18 months ago and I have
been a fan of it ever since.
You've had some great guests on.
There have been some greatcontent that's been shared.
Like you say, it's aboutenablers for enablers by
(03:01):
enablers.
I think it's phenomenal.
So Norf, what am I about?
So Ivante?
So Norf, what am I about?
I work for a company calledIvante and we effectively create
IT service management softwarethat allows people, companies,
their stuff to ensure that theirdata is secure, both at rest
(03:27):
and in flight.
And if you think about it now,with the world as it stands, as
long as you have an internetconnection, you can work from
anywhere, and that's effectivelywhat we help companies do.
We help companies and theirpeople access their data at rest
securely because we enable theeverywhere workplace.
(03:47):
Our marketing slogan iseverywhere work elevated.
But what it means for peoplelike you and me, paul, is that I
can unplug my laptop, I can usemy smartphone, plug it in, have
it wirelessly connected andaccess content on the Ivante
network behind our securefirewall, so I can do what I
(04:08):
need to do Effectively makingtechnology seamless and making
me interacting with thattechnology and making sure that
I am productive with the timethat I have, with the access to
the data that I require andthat's done seamlessly.
(04:29):
That's what we do.
We also have an element ofbeing able to look after that
data from a supply chainperspective as well.
So Ivante is broadly made up oftwo parts.
There's the IT servicemanagement part and all the
catalog of things that we dothere, but we also focus on
supply chain.
So, for example, you'll knowthis if you order anything from
(04:52):
your favorite online Westernretailer, without the Ivante
Wavelength supply chain softwarein play, you won't get your
packages delivered to yourdoorstep.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
All right, Well, thanks for that.
You know, fun fact, you're inthe UK but I drive by Yvonne
headquarters multiple times aweek.
It's not right for my house,you do.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
That's right Part of the tech quarter here in Salt
Lake City.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
All right, so we're going to mix it up a little bit
this time.
Normally we have what I callthe Jimmy Kimmel Challenge, but
you and I were talkingbeforehand about just as equally
funny if not more so sometimesJames Corden.
So let's have some fun with it.
We're going to switch it up tothe James Corden challenge.
James Corden decides to retire.
Through Friends of Friends,you're offered his show.
(05:39):
You can have anyone, either inthe car or on the couch, anybody
you want for your first show.
Who would you choose, and whythem?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Wow, okay.
So I'm going to have a bit offun with you, paul.
I'm actually not going to pickone or two, I'm going to pick
three, and what I'm going to dois I'm going to have one in the
car, one on the back of mymotorcycle and one in the studio
.
Okay, so I will have as a UKgentleman called Lenny Henry.
For anyone that's listening whoknows Lenny Henry, he is a Brit
(06:12):
, he was born in Birmingham andas I was growing up, lenny Henry
was that kind of de facto blackcomedian who I latched onto and
a lot of my characteristicsmodeled myself on him.
So lots of people will kind ofput my photos side by side with
Lenny Henry and say, no, if youlook just like Lenny Henry, to
(06:34):
which my response would be oneof his jokes or one of his
anecdotes.
So I would have Lenny Henry.
Okay, do it.
So Lenny Henry I would probablyhave, let's say I'd have him in
the car, on the back of amotorbike.
I would have a guy called FredNorth.
(06:56):
He's a French stunt helicopterpilot and he, I think he's based
in the US now.
But one of the things I wantedto be growing up was a
helicopter pilot and the storiesthat I hear from Fred North
have really inspired me to pushthe envelope of things that I do
not just around kind of.
(07:17):
You know, personal things likeyou know, playing drums, for
example, but also work wise in aneighborhood, and I'll kind of
come to that a little bit lateras we unpack some of the
elements that we're here to talkabout today.
So Fred North I would have onthe back of my motorbike.
Given that he's a helicopterpilot, I'm sure he's a bit of a
speed freak.
So I'll put him on the back ofmy bike and, out of interest,
(07:37):
the bike that I currently rideis an Aprilia RSV 1000, aprilia
RSV 1000.
So I'd have Lenny Henry in thecar, I'd have Fred North on the
back of a motorbike and in thestudio I would have somebody
else who also inspires me.
I alluded to it a bit earlierwhen I talked about drums, the
person who got me into drums andwas a really great conversation
(08:00):
that I had with him.
I called him cold, called himup cold one day and said do you
give drum lessons?
And he said no, I don't.
I'm just in the middle ofrecording an album.
Once the album was released Iwent out and bought that album
and then he called me back acouple of months later saying
you remember calling me and yousaid you wanted drum lessons.
Well, I'm free now to give yousome drum lessons.
And his name he's from Barbadosand his name is Richard Bailey.
(08:25):
He used to play for my favoriteband, a band called Incognito,
who have been going for 40 years, and he used to play drums for
them.
And the thing that reallyinspires me about Richard Bailey
is that he claims that he wasself taught, and to be able to
listen to a particular drumpattern, kind of slow it down in
(08:47):
your mind, learn it and thenadd your own flavor to it, for
me is again very, very inspiring.
So I used to play, I still playdrums.
I haven't played for a while,but all of the three people that
I mentioned are hugeinspirations for me.
So Lenny Henry, comedian, fredNorth, who is a French stunt
(09:08):
pilot, helicopter stunt pilotand Richard Bailey, drummer.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well, we need to find a way to make that happen.
You'd watch it All right.
Well, now we got to get intothe serious bit, but don't worry
everybody, it's going to bereally interesting too.
Let's talk about, I mean, andbroadly we're going to talk
about the digital aspects ofenablement, and so why don't we
start off with this?
(09:33):
How you define that and therole that it has in enablement
to set the base.
Yeah, what are the digitalaspects of our jobs?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Well, if you stop and think about it, there's,
there's, there's digitalenablement everywhere.
Okay, and let's think about thedigital platforms that are out
there that we learned from.
The biggest one, of course, isYouTube.
Right, you, you know thatage-old adage which is if you
want to know anything, you wantto learn anything.
Youtube is your friend.
Yeah, and it may be that you'relooking to, I don't know, wire a
(10:06):
plug.
Not that you should do that,you should have a qualified
electrician to do that.
But you know, if you're lookingto wire a plug or you're
looking to wire in your hi-fi orplumbing or whatever, you'd go
to YouTube, right right.
Also, if you think about it,the ways that we've historically
learned are the old ways.
You know, sitting in front ofthe classroom having hours and
(10:28):
hours of somebody talking at you, monologuing about whatever it
is.
For me because I have a veryshort attention span, I think I
have maybe some ailment likeADHD or something like that I
just I can't, I can't stay tunedin for long, so that's probably
why I was never particularlygood at Academic subjects,
(10:48):
whereas if you give me somethingphysical, I can pretty much
build you anything.
At least that's what I used totell myself.
Now we're in an age of Almostinstant gratification, of being
able to access anythinginstantly.
Yeah, when it comes to aneighbor woman, why can't we
have that same mindset?
(11:09):
Strictly speaking, I amgeneration X, so I was.
I was born I'm not gonna tellyou when I was born, but I am
definitely a generation X yeah,but I think like a millennial,
and the reason I say that isthat if you think of generation
X, they had a Acoustic acoustic.
If you think of generation X,they had a Analog childhood, but
(11:34):
they now have a digitaladulthood.
Yeah, if you think aboutmillennials, or even Gen Z,
everything that they do isaround digital, correct they.
Therefore, they have adifferent mindset.
So for me, as a generation Xer,it's easier for me to change my
mindset to embrace the digitalworld.
So, again, time those twothings together.
(11:55):
Youtube and you've want tolearn anything, you would go to
YouTube, but why can't we havethe same sorts of forms of
enablement, like YouTube videos,15 minute short clips on demand
, whenever you like, whereveryou are in the world?
So if I want to learn anythingaround enablement and let's just
(12:16):
say Territory planning oraccount planning, if I'm not too
sharp on account planning, whycan't I go to a YouTube type
platform that Avanti has builtor bought in with great Content
that I can consume Wherever I am, to sharpen my skills?
(12:36):
I'm a I'm a big fan of the factthat skills of the currency for
the work of tomorrow.
So if I can sharpen my skillson a week by week basis or a
regular basis.
It means that Whatever I'mlearning is going to be up there
with my name and address.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
When we were talking before the show you, you
referred to the differencebetween doing digital versus
being digital.
I thought that was.
I thought that was a reallyinteresting way to put it.
So what?
How does that, what does thatmean and how does that translate
into what we do when we supportour teams?
With enablement, Great question.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Great question for me , being digital is Is part of
what we do as enablers, day in,day out.
Obviously, we connect withpeople and if you think about it
, people haven't really evolved.
Technology has.
Look at where we are with AIand the different types of AI
generative, additive, all ofthose elements but if you think
(13:36):
about humans, we haven't reallychanged.
We still communicate in threebasic ways.
There is the element ofNonverbal communication.
Then there's the words that wechoose to use and the tone that
we put those words in.
And if you think about Doingdigital versus being digital, if
(13:56):
I'm just gonna do digital, it'svery much.
Well, I'll put a post out here,I may take a picture and send
that out there or whatever.
Right for me, being digital isEmbracing those aspects of
communication on any digitalplatform that I choose to use.
I've realized that LinkedIn,for me, is a great platform.
I love LinkedIn.
I'm also a visual person, soI'm a visual learner.
(14:19):
I'm an auditory learner as well.
So for me, overlaying thatnotion of being digital,
creating video and pictures forme allows, allows me to, rather
than just making one-offtransactions of conversing or
(14:42):
starting a conversation of thisis what I'm seeing today.
It's actually, what I'm tryingto do is to open up a digital
dialogue by connecting withother like-minded individuals
Around the globe.
Of this is what I'm seeing.
What are you seeing?
It starts those conversations.
That then defaults back intothose three ways in which we
(15:04):
communicate nonverbals the wordsthat I choose to use, or the
words that we choose to use aswe communicate, and and then the
tone in which I use those words.
So, for me, doing digital isI'm gonna dip my toe in, but I'm
not really focused on it.
I'm still gonna have the fixedmindset of doing what I do,
whereas being digital allows allof us to open up and share what
(15:29):
we do on those digitalplatforms like LinkedIn or even,
dare I say, instagram andYouTube.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Okay, so let's translate that for our audience,
because I'm sure some of themare wondering Sounds good, I
think I get it, but how do theyHelp them take that to the, to
the, to the street, right?
How does an enablement team oran enablement individual make
that second nature To theirprograms?
(15:57):
And maybe let's apply that tocontinuous learning.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Is that right yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
sure.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely great point.
Rather than having one-offtransactions of training, let's
just say, and let's picksomething presentation skills,
for example, paul.
Rather than just having apresentation skills course that
is just rolled out once and youexpect people to take it, how
(16:22):
about you create thatpresentation skills course and
you roll the course out and thenyou roll parts of the course
out as elements of microlearning or elements of looking
to drive people's behavior tochange how they present?
I don't believe in this day andage people will sit for any
(16:46):
longer than 15 minutes learningcontent, and you know me, paul,
we've worked together for quitea while Boring, monotone content
really will not be consumed,and it may well be the best
content on the planet, but ifit's being delivered in a way
that's very, very monotone,you'll end up turning people off
(17:06):
, and I put that voice They'llplay and we know what we're
doing.
That's right.
That's right.
They've completely switched off, they've completely unplugged.
I'm going to go off and dosomething else.
So by leveraging simple thingslike the power of your voice,
pitch, the speed at which youdeliver content, you're able to
(17:31):
create a story out of thepresentation skills course that
you may have just put together,putting it into bite size chunks
as well.
Think back to what we talkedabout and what we alluded to
earlier with.
If you want to learn anything,youtube is your friend, but put
it in short, bite size pieces.
It may well be that I'm kind ofsat here and through my mind I
(17:51):
think hang on, I've got apresentation to give later.
I need to learn about how notto be monotone.
Okay, let me do a quick searchon our internal learning
platform how not to be monotone.
Great, there's a video herethat Paul's done.
What does Paul talk about whenit comes to not being monotone?
And it might be that it's justa little bit of micro learning
(18:12):
that I need.
I don't need to sit through anentire presentation skills
course.
What I need is that singleelement of micro learning where
I am Almost think about it asjust in time learning.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
All right, how do enablement teams take advantage
of that?
Because I'll bet a lot of folkslistening.
Maybe they've even read aboutit.
They're hearing about it notfor the first time, but maybe
they don't know how to do it, orthat's not fair to say.
Maybe they don't know where tostart or doing a special
platform or some things likethat Right.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So I think that you say that, paul, and I consider.
For me, the trigger was thepandemic where we had to leave
the office.
We couldn't travel anywhere.
We had to create studios,create places where we could
create content in our homes.
Some people picked it up andlearned it very, very quickly.
Others perhaps not so quickly.
(19:07):
So one of the things that Ifound that I was passionate
about is presentation skills.
Now, there's a huge differencebetween presenting in person to
presenting virtually.
So one of the things that I didwas I just grabbed a camera,
pointed the right end of thecamera at me and just started to
(19:27):
create content.
There were some subtle elementsthat I did before I actually
hit record on the camera, one ofwhich was creating a script,
creating a story what do I wantto talk about and what's in it
for my learners?
But from starting with that, Istarted to create content.
Now, if you look at my firstvideo, it was awful.
(19:49):
The coloring was terrible, thebackdrop was awful.
I think I was relativelyunmonitoned, but I didn't know
what I didn't know.
But I started with somethingthat I was passionate about,
which was presenting.
So what I did was I simply tookthat and I taught myself how to
(20:09):
edit video by going to YouTube.
I learned how to craft wordsand to use a microphone.
Historically, I spent a bit oftime learning how to be a radio
presenter, so that skill camewith me when I was creating
those videos.
And even now, with creatingthis podcast, those skills came
(20:34):
out.
So I started with somethingthat I was passionate about but
started to create content thatwould scale.
Video scales, podcasts, scalethey're ubiquitous.
You're walking around with asmartphone in your pocket
broadly, which is a television,so how can you create as an
enabler, how can you create yourown internal TV channel that
(20:57):
has got high quality content inthat people can consume and the
fact that your teams know you,you can be talking about
something that you're passionateabout.
That is going to help the teamsimprove their skills.
So that's where I started, butinvesting more and more time,
more and more energy in learningthe craft of how to tell a
(21:19):
story and telling it well,pulling in areas around
just-in-time learning, creatingshort form content that's in a
series that will help peoplescale and change their behavior.
Okay, there's going to bechecks and balances in there as
well, and you've got to be ableto measure where people have
(21:40):
started from versus where theyfinish.
You know again, you can'tmanage what you can't measure
and you can't measure what youcan't see.
So, with all of those things inplace Impact Right, correct,
exactly.
So I would highly recommendstart with something you're
passionate about.
Start to develop a digitalstrategy around creating a
(22:03):
YouTube-esque, dare I saycontent that is fully
functioning, that is highquality for the sales teams that
you serve.
That's what I would say.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You've alluded to this a little bit but I want to
make sure we covered effectivelyand that is finding adjacent I
guess a Jason sees from otherfields and areas and there's
innovation going on that hasnothing to do with enablement.
How do we, as enablement, findthat and and bring that in and
(22:37):
incorporate those best practices?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm a huge fan of focusing on the swim lanes that
we're in.
Equally, I'm a big fan oflooking left and looking right
of the swim lane that I'm in, sosay, for example, we're talking
about presentation skills, likewe did.
There's a huge differencebetween presenting in person and
presenting online.
(22:59):
If I'm presenting in person,I'll be using Similar skills or
similar attributes as I would beif I'm presenting virtually.
However, if I'm presentingvirtually, there are slightly,
there are more skills that Iwould bring in that differ to
that of presenting online that'ssorry to that of presenting in
(23:23):
person.
If I also want that to scale,if we think about the virtual
deliveries, if I want that toscale, why can't I simply just
hit record and record thecontents that I'm delivering
virtually?
But then why can't I use thatcontent in In elements of reels,
instagram reels, youtube shortsand I'm pulling the notion from
(23:47):
that adjacency of what's outthere in the public domain, of
YouTube shorts, instagram reels,even TikTok videos why can't I
take that same notion and plugthat into my neighbour, my
content?
Why can't I use elements ofhumor to talk about?
This is how you would presentversus how you don't present.
(24:09):
Why can't I use some of theelements that I see if I'm
watching Ted Lasso that wetalked about a little bit
earlier.
You know, why can't I bringthose elements in Into my
neighbour content right?
Because, remember, I'm talking,I'm trying to communicate with
a human, when us humans havelots of different facets, right
and and lots of differentattributes.
(24:31):
So why can't I pull some ofthose levers?
Why does it all have to beserious?
Why can't I lean into some ofthe personality Aspects that I
have to bring my neighbourcontent to life?
I keep alluding back to onlineplatforms like Instagram and
YouTube, because there is so,there are so many ideas and
(24:53):
nuggets that we can pull out Toeither underpin our enablement
content or overlay on top of it.
So, for example, I'm a big fanof creating video content.
I've set up my little space inhere.
It's a six by six box.
It's about just over 3.3 meterssquare.
I've got acoustic paneling onmy wall as well, yeah, but I've
(25:13):
I've set my space up in a waythat it's not just my workspace,
it's also my content creationspace as well.
So, even if I'm creatingenablement for Evanti, I will
use this space to create thatcontent and Constantly teaching
myself.
Are there new things that I canbring in.
There are a couple of youtubersthat I follow.
I take how they put theircontent together and apply that
(25:37):
to my enablement content as well, but I'm forever trying to
sharpen my skills.
You know the fact.
We're talking about it in ameeting today.
Seven habits of highlyeffective people.
Stephen Covey sharpening thesaw number seven.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Podcast episode.
I worked for Stephen Coveywhile in college.
By the way, I got paid for abrilliant education.
Yes, he was an old phenomenalmy alma mater.
Wow before he went big time,you know.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I've got an idea, paul.
I think we probably shouldswitch the tables on this.
I think you should beinterviewed next.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I Do I enjoy doing podcasts?
I've got, I've got one comingup that I'm looking forward to,
but you're right, it is fun.
It's fun being on both sides ofthe mic, right?
So it is absolutely absolutely.
We're coming close to time, butI think we have one more because
we want to end with our usual,you know chance for you to drop
(26:33):
some non-enablement relatedknowledge on everyone.
But I know another thing that'simportant to you is Leading
with stories.
You talk earlier about that.
We still Communicate in thethree basic ways we've always
done.
So how do we sharpen our skillsfor not only hearing but
(26:54):
listening?
I think that'd be a good one togo out on great point.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You, If you think about where we are now, you
think about the world of selling.
That whole world has changed.
Buyers don't want to buy fromsalespeople Not anymore, right?
There is so much content outthere that buyers will make up
their own mind.
So what is it we need to do assellers?
(27:18):
If you think about our sellers,what they need to do is, rather
than telling them speeds andfeeds and all those boring
things, why not lead with astory?
Stories are timeless and ifthey're told correctly, those
stories will stick in your mind.
(27:38):
A friend of mine was telling mea great story around when he
bought a brand new television Ithink it was a 65-inch
television and his son, I think,was only three at the time.
So he bought this TV.
He was with his son his son itwas bigger than his kid.
Yeah, exactly, that's right.
So he and his son unpacked thisTV, they set it all up and they
(28:04):
turned it on and histhree-year-old son walked up to
the screen, put his index fingeron the screen, went to swipe
the image that he could see onthis huge 65-inch TV and then he
went to pinch and zoom and noneof those attributes worked on
the TV.
And he turned around to his dadand said Dad, it doesn't work.
(28:26):
Yeah, and every time I talkabout that story, people
remember it.
Why?
Because it's relevant, but alsothere's an element of being
able to push the mental envelopeof some of the and challenge
where we are today.
So if we think about thetechnology, it's not about the
(28:47):
technology.
That's not the end game.
A lot of it is around humanskill and how we improve through
technology, the skill of beinga human.
One of the things that I willleave you with is you wear
typically the masters of our owndestiny and to be able to
sharpen our skills, to sharpenthe sore, if you will.
(29:09):
One of the things that I'velearned to do is block out two
hours every Friday with its minethat I can spend time
sharpening my skills.
It means that that time I canchoose to use to do whatever I
want.
It also means that other peoplecan't block time or book
meetings during my sharpen theskill and sharpen the sore time.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
So again, we still communicate in those three basic
ways.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Going back to Covey Correct, exactly, that's my time
, it's ring fence and it's mine.
But again back to those threeways in which we communicate.
We haven't evolved from that.
So how do we embrace technologyto be able to up, level our
game, to ensure that we'resharpening our skills Again for
the skills of being listened,listen to the skills of
(29:55):
listening as opposed to theskills.
No, forget that.
Cut that.
Sorry, paul.
Let me just pretty quick revertback to that.
Sure, so let's think about howwe can utilize technology to
ensure that we level up thosethree basic ways of how we
communicate.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
This has been a lot of fun, you know, I can tell
there's a reason why next toyour LinkedIn profile you have
both a clapboard and amicrophone.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
It does.
Thanks, Paul.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
One thing I know you're a big reader and we don't
have time to get into it toodeeply, but if you haven't read
storytelling what great sellersdo by Mike Bosworth, I think
you'd really enjoy it.
My biggest takeaway from thatwas that research has shown as
humans we are hardwired torespond to stories differently.
(30:50):
Stories light up differentareas of our brain.
Scientists think it's becausefor most of our history as
humankind it was all oralcommunication, oral traditions
and stories to convey thosethings from generation to
generation.
Anyway, you'd probably reallyenjoy the book because it talks
a lot about some of the thingsyou're interested in.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Outstanding.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Want to give you a chance.
Like I said, this may have anenablement.
It doesn't have to at all.
You're given the gift of timetravel.
You can go back to any versionof young Paul and coach yourself
, but only in one area.
What would you choose?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Wow, I would probably go back to my 19 year old self
and I would say to 19 year oldNorth take calculated risks
earlier.
Take calculated risks earlier.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I would probably choose the best choice, although
when I was 19, that would havebeen the greatest results.
I didn't know half as much as Ithought I did.
That's for sure.
All right, well, thank you somuch for taking time to do this
with us, and thank you toeveryone who's been listening
and investing 30 minutes of yourtime.
(32:03):
Again, thank our sponsors ofthis episode, alego, and wish
everyone a safe and fun twoweeks until we're back with you
in new episode and a new guest.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Thanks for joining this episode of Stories from the
Trenches.
For more sales enablementresources, be sure to join the
Sales Enablement Society atsesocietyorg.
That's sesocietyorg.
Welcome to the Sales Enablement Society Stories from
the Trenches, where enablementpractitioners share their
real-world experiences.
Get the scoop on what'shappening inside Sales
Enablement teams across theglobal SES member community.
Each segment of Stories fromthe Trenches share the good, the
bad and the ugly practices ofcorporate sales.
Enablement initiatives learnedwhat worked, what didn't work
(00:25):
and how obstacles wereeliminated by corporate teams
and leadership.
Get back, grab a cold one andjoin host Paul Butterfield for
casual conversations about thewide and varied profession of
sales enablement, where there isnever a fits all solution.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome everyone back to another episode of Stories
from Trenches, the only, as faras we know, podcast that's truly
by enablers for enablers andwhere we bring together leaders
and individual contributors fromall across the world that are
doing innovative and differentthings and seeing success.
Or sometimes we talk about whenit didn't go as well as they
(01:01):
thought and how they backed upand ran at it and was successful
again.
Sometimes just as much learningthere.
So before I introduce today'sguest, which I'm very excited to
do, I want to ask you all aquestion Are your marketing and
sales teams playing welltogether?
Are they still playing the sameold game?
You know what I'm talking aboutMarketing creating loads of
content that just gathersdigital dust.
(01:23):
Sales teams are onboarded withlengthy and, frankly, snooze
training, underwhelming buyerexperiences.
You know today's sellers andbuyers expect so much more.
So time out To take it to thenext level, you need a modern
approach.
With Allegos, modern revenueenablement, the go to market
team can unify and synthesizetheir best stories to delight
(01:45):
customers and deliver results.
Game over.
Ready to up your game?
Go to wwwalegocom.
All right, everyone.
So now, as promised, I want tointroduce you to our guest.
His name is Paul Norford.
He is the VP of globalenablement at Ivante, and
(02:08):
actually a lot of us know him asNorf, so if you hear me say
that at some point, don't besurprised.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
So welcome Paul, it's nice to have you here, it's
great to be here, paul, and youmight actually feel like this is
a bit of a Paul convention, soI like the fact that you call me
Paul.
That's great, p2.
Maybe we call the echo.
Maybe we should.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
All right.
So why not just share a littlebit about yourself and the work
you're doing, and then we'lljump into the James Corden
challenge.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Sure, okay.
So firstly, paul, it's great tobe on the show.
I'm a massive fan of thepodcast and I only recently
discovered it probably a year,maybe 18 months ago and I have
been a fan of it ever since.
You've had some great guests on.
There have been some greatcontent that's been shared.
Like you say, it's aboutenablers for enablers by
(03:01):
enablers.
I think it's phenomenal.
So Norf, what am I about?
So Ivante?
So Norf, what am I about?
I work for a company calledIvante and we effectively create
IT service management softwarethat allows people, companies,
their stuff to ensure that theirdata is secure, both at rest
(03:27):
and in flight.
And if you think about it now,with the world as it stands, as
long as you have an internetconnection, you can work from
anywhere, and that's effectivelywhat we help companies do.
We help companies and theirpeople access their data at rest
securely because we enable theeverywhere workplace.
(03:47):
Our marketing slogan iseverywhere work elevated.
But what it means for peoplelike you and me, paul, is that I
can unplug my laptop, I can usemy smartphone, plug it in, have
it wirelessly connected andaccess content on the Ivante
network behind our securefirewall, so I can do what I
(04:08):
need to do Effectively makingtechnology seamless and making
me interacting with thattechnology and making sure that
I am productive with the timethat I have, with the access to
the data that I require andthat's done seamlessly.
(04:29):
That's what we do.
We also have an element ofbeing able to look after that
data from a supply chainperspective as well.
So Ivante is broadly made up oftwo parts.
There's the IT servicemanagement part and all the
catalog of things that we dothere, but we also focus on
supply chain.
So, for example, you'll knowthis if you order anything from
(04:52):
your favorite online Westernretailer, without the Ivante
Wavelength supply chain softwarein play, you won't get your
packages delivered to yourdoorstep.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
All right, Well, thanks for that.
You know, fun fact, you're inthe UK but I drive by Yvonne
headquarters multiple times aweek.
It's not right for my house,you do.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
That's right Part of the tech quarter here in Salt
Lake City.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
All right, so we're going to mix it up a little bit
this time.
Normally we have what I callthe Jimmy Kimmel Challenge, but
you and I were talkingbeforehand about just as equally
funny if not more so sometimesJames Corden.
So let's have some fun with it.
We're going to switch it up tothe James Corden challenge.
James Corden decides to retire.
Through Friends of Friends,you're offered his show.
(05:39):
You can have anyone, either inthe car or on the couch, anybody
you want for your first show.
Who would you choose, and whythem?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Wow, okay.
So I'm going to have a bit offun with you, paul.
I'm actually not going to pickone or two, I'm going to pick
three, and what I'm going to dois I'm going to have one in the
car, one on the back of mymotorcycle and one in the studio
.
Okay, so I will have as a UKgentleman called Lenny Henry.
For anyone that's listening whoknows Lenny Henry, he is a Brit
(06:12):
, he was born in Birmingham andas I was growing up, lenny Henry
was that kind of de facto blackcomedian who I latched onto and
a lot of my characteristicsmodeled myself on him.
So lots of people will kind ofput my photos side by side with
Lenny Henry and say, no, if youlook just like Lenny Henry, to
(06:34):
which my response would be oneof his jokes or one of his
anecdotes.
So I would have Lenny Henry.
Okay, do it.
So Lenny Henry I would probablyhave, let's say I'd have him in
the car, on the back of amotorbike.
I would have a guy called FredNorth.
(06:56):
He's a French stunt helicopterpilot and he, I think he's based
in the US now.
But one of the things I wantedto be growing up was a
helicopter pilot and the storiesthat I hear from Fred North
have really inspired me to pushthe envelope of things that I do
not just around kind of.
(07:17):
You know, personal things likeyou know, playing drums, for
example, but also work wise in aneighborhood, and I'll kind of
come to that a little bit lateras we unpack some of the
elements that we're here to talkabout today.
So Fred North I would have onthe back of my motorbike.
Given that he's a helicopterpilot, I'm sure he's a bit of a
speed freak.
So I'll put him on the back ofmy bike and, out of interest,
(07:37):
the bike that I currently rideis an Aprilia RSV 1000, aprilia
RSV 1000.
So I'd have Lenny Henry in thecar, I'd have Fred North on the
back of a motorbike and in thestudio I would have somebody
else who also inspires me.
I alluded to it a bit earlierwhen I talked about drums, the
person who got me into drums andwas a really great conversation
(08:00):
that I had with him.
I called him cold, called himup cold one day and said do you
give drum lessons?
And he said no, I don't.
I'm just in the middle ofrecording an album.
Once the album was released Iwent out and bought that album
and then he called me back acouple of months later saying
you remember calling me and yousaid you wanted drum lessons.
Well, I'm free now to give yousome drum lessons.
And his name he's from Barbadosand his name is Richard Bailey.
(08:25):
He used to play for my favoriteband, a band called Incognito,
who have been going for 40 years, and he used to play drums for
them.
And the thing that reallyinspires me about Richard Bailey
is that he claims that he wasself taught, and to be able to
listen to a particular drumpattern, kind of slow it down in
(08:47):
your mind, learn it and thenadd your own flavor to it, for
me is again very, very inspiring.
So I used to play, I still playdrums.
I haven't played for a while,but all of the three people that
I mentioned are hugeinspirations for me.
So Lenny Henry, comedian, fredNorth, who is a French stunt
(09:08):
pilot, helicopter stunt pilotand Richard Bailey, drummer.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Well, we need to find a way to make that happen.
You'd watch it All right.
Well, now we got to get intothe serious bit, but don't worry
everybody, it's going to bereally interesting too.
Let's talk about, I mean, andbroadly we're going to talk
about the digital aspects ofenablement, and so why don't we
start off with this?
(09:33):
How you define that and therole that it has in enablement
to set the base.
Yeah, what are the digitalaspects of our jobs?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Well, if you stop and think about it, there's,
there's, there's digitalenablement everywhere.
Okay, and let's think about thedigital platforms that are out
there that we learned from.
The biggest one, of course, isYouTube.
Right, you, you know thatage-old adage which is if you
want to know anything, you wantto learn anything.
Youtube is your friend.
Yeah, and it may be that you'relooking to, I don't know, wire a
(10:06):
plug.
Not that you should do that,you should have a qualified
electrician to do that.
But you know, if you're lookingto wire a plug or you're
looking to wire in your hi-fi orplumbing or whatever, you'd go
to YouTube, right right.
Also, if you think about it,the ways that we've historically
learned are the old ways.
You know, sitting in front ofthe classroom having hours and
(10:28):
hours of somebody talking at you, monologuing about whatever it
is.
For me because I have a veryshort attention span, I think I
have maybe some ailment likeADHD or something like that I
just I can't, I can't stay tunedin for long, so that's probably
why I was never particularlygood at Academic subjects,
(10:48):
whereas if you give me somethingphysical, I can pretty much
build you anything.
At least that's what I used totell myself.
Now we're in an age of Almostinstant gratification, of being
able to access anythinginstantly.
Yeah, when it comes to aneighbor woman, why can't we
have that same mindset?
(11:09):
Strictly speaking, I amgeneration X, so I was.
I was born I'm not gonna tellyou when I was born, but I am
definitely a generation X yeah,but I think like a millennial,
and the reason I say that isthat if you think of generation
X, they had a Acoustic acoustic.
If you think of generation X,they had a Analog childhood, but
(11:34):
they now have a digitaladulthood.
Yeah, if you think aboutmillennials, or even Gen Z,
everything that they do isaround digital, correct they.
Therefore, they have adifferent mindset.
So for me, as a generation Xer,it's easier for me to change my
mindset to embrace the digitalworld.
So, again, time those twothings together.
(11:55):
Youtube and you've want tolearn anything, you would go to
YouTube, but why can't we havethe same sorts of forms of
enablement, like YouTube videos,15 minute short clips on demand
, whenever you like, whereveryou are in the world?
So if I want to learn anythingaround enablement and let's just
(12:16):
say Territory planning oraccount planning, if I'm not too
sharp on account planning, whycan't I go to a YouTube type
platform that Avanti has builtor bought in with great Content
that I can consume Wherever I am, to sharpen my skills?
(12:36):
I'm a I'm a big fan of the factthat skills of the currency for
the work of tomorrow.
So if I can sharpen my skillson a week by week basis or a
regular basis.
It means that Whatever I'mlearning is going to be up there
with my name and address.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
When we were talking before the show you, you
referred to the differencebetween doing digital versus
being digital.
I thought that was.
I thought that was a reallyinteresting way to put it.
So what?
How does that, what does thatmean and how does that translate
into what we do when we supportour teams?
With enablement, Great question.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
Great question for me , being digital is Is part of
what we do as enablers, day in,day out.
Obviously, we connect withpeople and if you think about it
, people haven't really evolved.
Technology has.
Look at where we are with AIand the different types of AI
generative, additive, all ofthose elements but if you think
(13:36):
about humans, we haven't reallychanged.
We still communicate in threebasic ways.
There is the element ofNonverbal communication.
Then there's the words that wechoose to use and the tone that
we put those words in.
And if you think about Doingdigital versus being digital, if
(13:56):
I'm just gonna do digital, it'svery much.
Well, I'll put a post out here,I may take a picture and send
that out there or whatever.
Right for me, being digital isEmbracing those aspects of
communication on any digitalplatform that I choose to use.
I've realized that LinkedIn,for me, is a great platform.
I love LinkedIn.
I'm also a visual person, soI'm a visual learner.
(14:19):
I'm an auditory learner as well.
So for me, overlaying thatnotion of being digital,
creating video and pictures forme allows, allows me to, rather
than just making one-offtransactions of conversing or
(14:42):
starting a conversation of thisis what I'm seeing today.
It's actually, what I'm tryingto do is to open up a digital
dialogue by connecting withother like-minded individuals
Around the globe.
Of this is what I'm seeing.
What are you seeing?
It starts those conversations.
That then defaults back intothose three ways in which we
(15:04):
communicate nonverbals the wordsthat I choose to use, or the
words that we choose to use aswe communicate, and and then the
tone in which I use those words.
So, for me, doing digital isI'm gonna dip my toe in, but I'm
not really focused on it.
I'm still gonna have the fixedmindset of doing what I do,
whereas being digital allows allof us to open up and share what
(15:29):
we do on those digitalplatforms like LinkedIn or even,
dare I say, instagram andYouTube.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Okay, so let's translate that for our audience,
because I'm sure some of themare wondering Sounds good, I
think I get it, but how do theyHelp them take that to the, to
the, to the street, right?
How does an enablement team oran enablement individual make
that second nature To theirprograms?
(15:57):
And maybe let's apply that tocontinuous learning.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Is that right yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
sure.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely great point.
Rather than having one-offtransactions of training, let's
just say, and let's picksomething presentation skills,
for example, paul.
Rather than just having apresentation skills course that
is just rolled out once and youexpect people to take it, how
(16:22):
about you create thatpresentation skills course and
you roll the course out and thenyou roll parts of the course
out as elements of microlearning or elements of looking
to drive people's behavior tochange how they present?
I don't believe in this day andage people will sit for any
(16:46):
longer than 15 minutes learningcontent, and you know me, paul,
we've worked together for quitea while Boring, monotone content
really will not be consumed,and it may well be the best
content on the planet, but ifit's being delivered in a way
that's very, very monotone,you'll end up turning people off
(17:06):
, and I put that voice They'llplay and we know what we're
doing.
That's right.
That's right.
They've completely switched off, they've completely unplugged.
I'm going to go off and dosomething else.
So by leveraging simple thingslike the power of your voice,
pitch, the speed at which youdeliver content, you're able to
(17:31):
create a story out of thepresentation skills course that
you may have just put together,putting it into bite size chunks
as well.
Think back to what we talkedabout and what we alluded to
earlier with.
If you want to learn anything,youtube is your friend, but put
it in short, bite size pieces.
It may well be that I'm kind ofsat here and through my mind I
(17:51):
think hang on, I've got apresentation to give later.
I need to learn about how notto be monotone.
Okay, let me do a quick searchon our internal learning
platform how not to be monotone.
Great, there's a video herethat Paul's done.
What does Paul talk about whenit comes to not being monotone?
And it might be that it's justa little bit of micro learning
(18:12):
that I need.
I don't need to sit through anentire presentation skills
course.
What I need is that singleelement of micro learning where
I am Almost think about it asjust in time learning.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
All right, how do enablement teams take advantage
of that?
Because I'll bet a lot of folkslistening.
Maybe they've even read aboutit.
They're hearing about it notfor the first time, but maybe
they don't know how to do it, orthat's not fair to say.
Maybe they don't know where tostart or doing a special
platform or some things likethat Right.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
So I think that you say that, paul, and I consider.
For me, the trigger was thepandemic where we had to leave
the office.
We couldn't travel anywhere.
We had to create studios,create places where we could
create content in our homes.
Some people picked it up andlearned it very, very quickly.
Others perhaps not so quickly.
(19:07):
So one of the things that Ifound that I was passionate
about is presentation skills.
Now, there's a huge differencebetween presenting in person to
presenting virtually.
So one of the things that I didwas I just grabbed a camera,
pointed the right end of thecamera at me and just started to
(19:27):
create content.
There were some subtle elementsthat I did before I actually
hit record on the camera, one ofwhich was creating a script,
creating a story what do I wantto talk about and what's in it
for my learners?
But from starting with that, Istarted to create content.
Now, if you look at my firstvideo, it was awful.
(19:49):
The coloring was terrible, thebackdrop was awful.
I think I was relativelyunmonitoned, but I didn't know
what I didn't know.
But I started with somethingthat I was passionate about,
which was presenting.
So what I did was I simply tookthat and I taught myself how to
(20:09):
edit video by going to YouTube.
I learned how to craft wordsand to use a microphone.
Historically, I spent a bit oftime learning how to be a radio
presenter, so that skill camewith me when I was creating
those videos.
And even now, with creatingthis podcast, those skills came
(20:34):
out.
So I started with somethingthat I was passionate about but
started to create content thatwould scale.
Video scales, podcasts, scalethey're ubiquitous.
You're walking around with asmartphone in your pocket
broadly, which is a television,so how can you create as an
enabler, how can you create yourown internal TV channel that
(20:57):
has got high quality content inthat people can consume and the
fact that your teams know you,you can be talking about
something that you're passionateabout.
That is going to help the teamsimprove their skills.
So that's where I started, butinvesting more and more time,
more and more energy in learningthe craft of how to tell a
(21:19):
story and telling it well,pulling in areas around
just-in-time learning, creatingshort form content that's in a
series that will help peoplescale and change their behavior.
Okay, there's going to bechecks and balances in there as
well, and you've got to be ableto measure where people have
(21:40):
started from versus where theyfinish.
You know again, you can'tmanage what you can't measure
and you can't measure what youcan't see.
So, with all of those things inplace Impact Right, correct,
exactly.
So I would highly recommendstart with something you're
passionate about.
Start to develop a digitalstrategy around creating a
(22:03):
YouTube-esque, dare I saycontent that is fully
functioning, that is highquality for the sales teams that
you serve.
That's what I would say.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You've alluded to this a little bit but I want to
make sure we covered effectivelyand that is finding adjacent I
guess a Jason sees from otherfields and areas and there's
innovation going on that hasnothing to do with enablement.
How do we, as enablement, findthat and and bring that in and
(22:37):
incorporate those best practices?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
I'm a huge fan of focusing on the swim lanes that
we're in.
Equally, I'm a big fan oflooking left and looking right
of the swim lane that I'm in, sosay, for example, we're talking
about presentation skills, likewe did.
There's a huge differencebetween presenting in person and
presenting online.
(22:59):
If I'm presenting in person,I'll be using Similar skills or
similar attributes as I would beif I'm presenting virtually.
However, if I'm presentingvirtually, there are slightly,
there are more skills that Iwould bring in that differ to
that of presenting online that'ssorry to that of presenting in
(23:23):
person.
If I also want that to scale,if we think about the virtual
deliveries, if I want that toscale, why can't I simply just
hit record and record thecontents that I'm delivering
virtually?
But then why can't I use thatcontent in In elements of reels,
instagram reels, youtube shortsand I'm pulling the notion from
(23:47):
that adjacency of what's outthere in the public domain, of
YouTube shorts, instagram reels,even TikTok videos why can't I
take that same notion and plugthat into my neighbour, my
content?
Why can't I use elements ofhumor to talk about?
This is how you would presentversus how you don't present.
(24:09):
Why can't I use some of theelements that I see if I'm
watching Ted Lasso that wetalked about a little bit
earlier.
You know, why can't I bringthose elements in Into my
neighbour content right?
Because, remember, I'm talking,I'm trying to communicate with
a human, when us humans havelots of different facets, right
and and lots of differentattributes.
(24:31):
So why can't I pull some ofthose levers?
Why does it all have to beserious?
Why can't I lean into some ofthe personality Aspects that I
have to bring my neighbourcontent to life?
I keep alluding back to onlineplatforms like Instagram and
YouTube, because there is so,there are so many ideas and
(24:53):
nuggets that we can pull out Toeither underpin our enablement
content or overlay on top of it.
So, for example, I'm a big fanof creating video content.
I've set up my little space inhere.
It's a six by six box.
It's about just over 3.3 meterssquare.
I've got acoustic paneling onmy wall as well, yeah, but I've
(25:13):
I've set my space up in a waythat it's not just my workspace,
it's also my content creationspace as well.
So, even if I'm creatingenablement for Evanti, I will
use this space to create thatcontent and Constantly teaching
myself.
Are there new things that I canbring in.
There are a couple of youtubersthat I follow.
I take how they put theircontent together and apply that
(25:37):
to my enablement content as well, but I'm forever trying to
sharpen my skills.
You know the fact.
We're talking about it in ameeting today.
Seven habits of highlyeffective people.
Stephen Covey sharpening thesaw number seven.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Podcast episode.
I worked for Stephen Coveywhile in college.
By the way, I got paid for abrilliant education.
Yes, he was an old phenomenalmy alma mater.
Wow before he went big time,you know.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I've got an idea, paul.
I think we probably shouldswitch the tables on this.
I think you should beinterviewed next.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
I Do I enjoy doing podcasts?
I've got, I've got one comingup that I'm looking forward to,
but you're right, it is fun.
It's fun being on both sides ofthe mic, right?
So it is absolutely absolutely.
We're coming close to time, butI think we have one more because
we want to end with our usual,you know chance for you to drop
(26:33):
some non-enablement relatedknowledge on everyone.
But I know another thing that'simportant to you is Leading
with stories.
You talk earlier about that.
We still Communicate in thethree basic ways we've always
done.
So how do we sharpen our skillsfor not only hearing but
(26:54):
listening?
I think that'd be a good one togo out on great point.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You, If you think about where we are now, you
think about the world of selling.
That whole world has changed.
Buyers don't want to buy fromsalespeople Not anymore, right?
There is so much content outthere that buyers will make up
their own mind.
So what is it we need to do assellers?
(27:18):
If you think about our sellers,what they need to do is, rather
than telling them speeds andfeeds and all those boring
things, why not lead with astory?
Stories are timeless and ifthey're told correctly, those
stories will stick in your mind.
(27:38):
A friend of mine was telling mea great story around when he
bought a brand new television Ithink it was a 65-inch
television and his son, I think,was only three at the time.
So he bought this TV.
He was with his son his son itwas bigger than his kid.
Yeah, exactly, that's right.
So he and his son unpacked thisTV, they set it all up and they
(28:04):
turned it on and histhree-year-old son walked up to
the screen, put his index fingeron the screen, went to swipe
the image that he could see onthis huge 65-inch TV and then he
went to pinch and zoom and noneof those attributes worked on
the TV.
And he turned around to his dadand said Dad, it doesn't work.
(28:26):
Yeah, and every time I talkabout that story, people
remember it.
Why?
Because it's relevant, but alsothere's an element of being
able to push the mental envelopeof some of the and challenge
where we are today.
So if we think about thetechnology, it's not about the
(28:47):
technology.
That's not the end game.
A lot of it is around humanskill and how we improve through
technology, the skill of beinga human.
One of the things that I willleave you with is you wear
typically the masters of our owndestiny and to be able to
sharpen our skills, to sharpenthe sore, if you will.
(29:09):
One of the things that I'velearned to do is block out two
hours every Friday with its minethat I can spend time
sharpening my skills.
It means that that time I canchoose to use to do whatever I
want.
It also means that other peoplecan't block time or book
meetings during my sharpen theskill and sharpen the sore time.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
So again, we still communicate in those three basic
ways.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Going back to Covey Correct, exactly, that's my time
, it's ring fence and it's mine.
But again back to those threeways in which we communicate.
We haven't evolved from that.
So how do we embrace technologyto be able to up, level our
game, to ensure that we'resharpening our skills Again for
the skills of being listened,listen to the skills of
(29:55):
listening as opposed to theskills.
No, forget that.
Cut that.
Sorry, paul.
Let me just pretty quick revertback to that.
Sure, so let's think about howwe can utilize technology to
ensure that we level up thosethree basic ways of how we
communicate.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
This has been a lot of fun, you know, I can tell
there's a reason why next toyour LinkedIn profile you have
both a clapboard and amicrophone.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
It does.
Thanks, Paul.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
One thing I know you're a big reader and we don't
have time to get into it toodeeply, but if you haven't read
storytelling what great sellersdo by Mike Bosworth, I think
you'd really enjoy it.
My biggest takeaway from thatwas that research has shown as
humans we are hardwired torespond to stories differently.
(30:50):
Stories light up differentareas of our brain.
Scientists think it's becausefor most of our history as
humankind it was all oralcommunication, oral traditions
and stories to convey thosethings from generation to
generation.
Anyway, you'd probably reallyenjoy the book because it talks
a lot about some of the thingsyou're interested in.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Outstanding.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Want to give you a chance.
Like I said, this may have anenablement.
It doesn't have to at all.
You're given the gift of timetravel.
You can go back to any versionof young Paul and coach yourself
, but only in one area.
What would you choose?
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Wow, I would probably go back to my 19 year old self
and I would say to 19 year oldNorth take calculated risks
earlier.
Take calculated risks earlier.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I would probably choose the best choice, although
when I was 19, that would havebeen the greatest results.
I didn't know half as much as Ithought I did.
That's for sure.
All right, well, thank you somuch for taking time to do this
with us, and thank you toeveryone who's been listening
and investing 30 minutes of yourtime.
(32:03):
Again, thank our sponsors ofthis episode, alego, and wish
everyone a safe and fun twoweeks until we're back with you
in new episode and a new guest.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Thanks for joining this episode of Stories from the
Trenches.
For more sales enablementresources, be sure to join the
Sales Enablement Society atsesocietyorg.
That's sesocietyorg.
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