September 10, 2020 • 47 mins
In many ways, CX and Marketing are the key parts of the business tasked with thinking about the future of the business, and in particular, customer needs. Businesses that closely align these two functional areas can have a greater impact on the customer experience, and essentially a better business outcome.
This month on Revenue Rebels, join us as Rhoan Morgan sits down with Stuart Gilchriest, Director of Customer Experience and CCX at Hertz to explore:
- Who owns CX and where it should live within an organization
- The role data plays in a successful CX strategy
- Tips B2B can take from B2C CX
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhoan Morgan (00:01):
Hey everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofRevenue Rebels, the podcast that
brings marketing and salesrebels together to share their
stories and thinking on alltopics related to accelerating
revenue, generating activitiesin the B2B world.
On this show, we talk about thestrategic vision of
marketing-led customerexperience that unleashes the
(00:23):
combined power of technology,content and data.
Are you ready to rebel?
Let's get into the show.
Hello listeners.
And welcome back to anotherepisode of Revenue Rebels.
Today's guest is originally fromthe UK, as you will learn very
(00:44):
quickly once he starts speaking.
He grew up professionally as anarea manager in the hospitality
industry before he had theopportunity to move to Boston to
study his MBA.
So what's exciting is that whenhe was at, he moved to Boston at
studied his MBA and thenactually was able to take that
to pivot his career into an areathat I'm personally really
(01:05):
passionate about, which iscustomer experience.
And he's been working incustomer experience in the
travel industry for the past sixyears.
Stuart Gilchriest is joining ustoday.
He's a certified customerexperience professional, and
he's currently working at Hertzleading customer experience
initiatives.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, Stuart.
Stuart Gilchriest (01:25):
Thanks for having me on, it's a pleasure.
Rhoan Morgan (01:28):
We've been preparing for this a little
while and getting to know you abit beforehand.
I'm really excited to be able toshare your insights and what
you're learning around customerexperience, especially in
today's environment.
And how to really sort of keepthe lights on and continue to
grow initiatives even whenthings are maybe more
(01:48):
challenging.
One of the things that we liketo kick off our shows with is
the rebel segment, where ourguests gets to share a little
bit about their personalexperience and their sort of
journey professionally.
So can you just take a moment toshare with us a rebel act from
your professional journey, yourmarketing journey that maybe
(02:10):
brought together customerexperience and marketing within
an organization.
It's an area that we're reallypassionate about.
How do these two things worktogether?
I'd love to hear if you'vetackled that.
Stuart Gilchriest (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, in customerexperience, it's often your job
to challenge the status quo.
I think, you know, being a rebelit almost kind of comes with the
territory when you take acustomer experience role.
And, you know, for me, just likea lot of people, I just think
there's a golden opportunitywhen you join a new company or
even you're promoted internallyinto a new CX role, just to
(02:45):
really get the lay of the land,meet with some execs and peers
and really just challenge whythings are the way they are.
So, you know, to prepare forthat, what I did when I came in
Hertz was really to make sure Iwas bringing the customer voice
and their feedback into thoseconversations.
To approach those conversationswith those leaders in very much
(03:08):
a way that was designed to tryand learn and understand more
about them, about what motivatethem, and what's important to
them in terms of the business.
But it was also an opportunityjust to probe and look at some
of that legacy thinking a littlebit, just to understand, you
know, why are things this wayand actually from a customer
(03:29):
perspective, and as someonewho's new to the business, you
just have this goldenopportunity to bring in some new
ideas, some new thoughts, andreally some new perspectives
with your experiences with thatparticular brand.
So, you know, that's what I wasable to do.
And I think that really helpsyou to build your reputation, to
understand who the key playersin the business are, build those
(03:52):
relationships and really findallies for your future work.
I think that's a really keypiece when you're coming into
any new, organization.
You know, but coming back to therebels piece, I think that it's
just a great opportunity toreally push back on some of
those things, which are just theaccepted ways of doing business.
Car rental is classic for that.
(04:13):
And it was really refreshing andenlightening to be able to come
in and really just share kind ofsome of those customer pain
points and frustrations andunderstand why it is that way
and figure out where theopportunities to drive change
actually were.
Rhoan Morgan (04:28):
You actually pointed out something that I
think is really important andI've spent time on this myself
as somebody who's worked with alot of marketers, they're hyper
creative people and oftentimeswill come into an organization
wanting to make a lot ofchanges, right?
They're going to see ways toimprove, to make improvements,
(04:48):
to optimize and put their stampor their fingerprint on things.
And one way of doing that isdefinitely being the challenger
who goes in and asks those hardquestions.
We were talking about this alittle bit ago, you're at a
company that is a century old,right?
So there has to have been, youknow, first of all, I think
(05:11):
kudos to a company that iswilling to take the step and
recognize the importance ofcustomer experience and how that
can transform a business.
Maybe can you share a little bitabout, you know, the process
that you went through to reallybring this through the
organization?
Stuart Gilchriest (05:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
It really, for me, it startswith digging in to that customer
feedback.
Both the qualitative feedbackthat we're getting and also the
quantitative feedback.
You know, hopefully you'recoming into an organization
where that already exists.
If not, there's definitely somegroundwork to lay first.
But assuming that thatinformation is there, I think
(05:52):
it's super important if you arecoming in challenging the status
quo and coming in with lot ofideas that you're actually just
not shooting from the hip, butyou're really basing those,
based on customer insights.
That you've already got a goodunderstanding of what matters to
customers and what adds value tocustomers, because then you're
able to go ahead and prioritizesome of those things.
(06:15):
That way you avoid those kindsof fantasy projects where you
come in, because we all see theworld through our own eyes,
right?
We all assume that ourexperience with the brand is
exactly the same as everybodyelse's.
And when you've got, you know,thousands and thousands of
customers, every single day,it's wrong to assume that yours
is the only experience thatmatters.
So you really have to come inwith that humility and
(06:37):
understanding, and really that,you know, you've got to get knee
deep in the data and what yourcustomers are saying, and then
you can bring that to life.
And then in those conversations,you have that credibility when
you're meeting with your seniorleaders who perhaps don't have
the time to really sift throughall that information in as much
detail.
You have that credibility tosay, like I've been through a
(06:58):
lot of the comments and a lot ofthe things I see are X, Y, and
Zed.
How do we think about drivingthat change?
How do we think about creating abetter experience for our
customers?
So, you know, having that dataand that insight to share before
you go into those conversations,I think is the critical part of,
changing people's minds andreally proving that you're
(07:20):
serious.
And you know, that you know whatyou're talking about.
Rhoan Morgan (07:24):
Music to my ears, and I love that we are starting
this segment talking abouthaving the real data, having
those insights that are based onboth qualitative and
quantitative measures.
I think you're absolutely right.
It's easy to go into a situationand say,"well, this is sort of
what my gut tells me," one of myleast favorite sentences, unless
(07:48):
your gut is also backed up bydata, then, you know, great
bring it on.
Couldn't agree more.
And we talk about that a lottoo.
You know, how do you, can you gointo an executive meeting and
really sort of help those lightbulbs go off and you have to go
in with that foundation, whichis going to build the
credibility in what you'retrying to do.
(08:10):
Maybe can you share a couple ofthe outcomes that you've seen or
examples of successes?
I know you've been there now acouple of years.
What would you say sort of youare most proud of in terms of
the process you've gone throughso far?
Stuart Gilchriest (08:25):
Yeah, sure.
I think one of the, one of thekey roles, I think in CX, at
least in our company and a lotof different companies,
obviously we're B2C, but you canapply this in the B2B space as
well is, you know, CX really hasto be that glue that brings, you
know, the marketers who are kindof making promises to potential
customers and the, in our case,the operators who actually
(08:47):
deliver that experience, buteven in a B2B environment that
may be onboarding teams andaccount managers, and just
bringing those two teams reallyclosely together.
Because I think if we're makinga promise that we aren't able to
keep and isn't founded inreality, then that's where bad
experiences happen and customerservice issues come in.
So that was really our approachreally from day one.
(09:08):
And one of the outcomes thatcame from that was a really
collaborative session that wehad with the marketing
leadership team around brandstrategy and CX strategy.
In my mind, those two things arecertainly different, but they
should live on the same page ofthe same document, they should
be referenced equally.
And people should have a reallygood understanding of how they
(09:28):
play together at that highlevel.
So that was definitely somethingthat we were able to achieve in
that first year.
And then since then we've seenimproved customer retention on a
very consistent basis.
We were very proud to be awardedthe JD Power Award for customer
satisfaction in car rental lastyear, and really anticipating
(09:52):
the results being released thisyear as well.
And I think probably the leasttangible, but one of the most
important outcomes that we hadfrom that work was that, CX is
really an embedded role now.
We're seen as much more thanjust the survey team, which is
certainly a part of it, butthere's so much more to it than
that.
Really we're asked for our inputwhen it comes to key decisions,
(10:16):
key marketing campaigns, andwhen people want to know more
about their customers, they'recoming to us to ask what our
insights might be and for us tohelp tell that story for them.
Rhoan Morgan (10:27):
I think that's huge and could not agree more
that it has to be embedded intoevery aspect of a business.
And one of the challenges thatwe see is that it's a bit
siloed, you know, where you ownthis part of the customer's
experience or journey, if that'smarketing or sales or customer
(10:48):
support product operations.
And once you can sort of infusethat throughout every team and
team member, which it soundslike, I think that's been a big
focus for you.
It is, you know, the results andthe return on your efforts is 10
times, a hundred times what youcould, which you could expect
(11:09):
otherwise.
So in the example that you werejust talking about, you know, I
want to just shift over to talkabout teams a little bit,
because you started to sharethat you were working with, some
of the marketing leaders andbringing together brand strategy
and CX strategy.
Can you share a bit about theteams and the other stakeholders
that you were able to bringtogether to start to pull this
(11:31):
throughout the entireorganization?
So who, and maybe is it a teamor an organization within Hertz
that was surprising?
Tell us a story about, aboutthat.
Stuart Gilchriest (11:41):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
The fun thing for me with anycustomer experience work is you
get to just engage with prettymuch everyone in the business.
The program and the idea behindit is about really lifting other
people up, driving that culturalchange and helping them to be
successful.
So, we sit within marketing inHertz.
(12:02):
But as I mentioned earlier, theoperations team for us, the
frontline men and women who goabove and beyond for our
customers every single day, wasreally the team that we knew was
critical to engage.
And we continually seek theirengagement on a lot of these
(12:22):
things, because we know thatwhatever we write down on a nice
PowerPoint deck doesn't reallymean anything, unless it means
something to our staff and ourgreat kind of people out there
in the field who go in every dayand just do amazing things for
our customers.
So in terms of surprises, Iwouldn't say that that was
necessarily a surprise, but itwas definitely hard work, right.
(12:42):
I think, you know, with anyonewho is dealing with customers
day in day out, it can be a realchallenge, I think sometimes to
step back and see a biggerpicture.
And that's really what wecontinually help them to do.
Whether that's people on thephones, in a customer service
role, whether it's people in ourlocations.
(13:02):
It's really kind of crucial thatwe are providing that insight
that helps people step back justa little bit and understand,
okay, this is the big picturebeyond this customer who's right
in front of me today.
These are the trends we'reseeing.
This is what the real painpoints and sticking points for
customers are.
So that was definitely somethingthat was really important to us,
(13:23):
how we went about doing that wasreally just democratizing the
insights.
I think sometimes you hear aboutdemocratizing data, but for us,
it was really about sharingthose insights and making sure
that as many people as possiblehad access to those to really
understand what was going on.
And when we get it right forpeople, what are the key things
that they value in thatexperience?
(13:44):
And when it doesn't go so well,where are the opportunities that
we can improve?
I think that has reallyencouraged our entire frontline
team and really our entireorganization to think about
those customer problems as theyare today.
And I'll tell you, you know, acouple of years into this role,
we get so much more input andcreative solutions coming from
(14:05):
other teams than we used tobecause people are now thinking
about customer problems and howwe can solve them.
So, you know, that's a key partof the catalyst part of the
customer experience role, in myopinion.
Rhoan Morgan (14:17):
You know, I was just reading an article not too
long ago about the correlationor the connection between
employee experience and customerexperience.
And it sounds like that'sobviously been forefront for you
guys where ensuring that ifyou've got employees who
themselves are having afantastic experience who are
(14:42):
really plugged into anorganization and who get the
greater purpose of, you know,what's coming out of the
PowerPoint, essentially, whatdoes it really mean to them?
Then they're able to reallyprovide something, you know,
sort of at a next level fortheir customers that they're
working with every day, be thaton the phone in person, that
(15:03):
sort of thing.
Is that something that you guysthought about?
Stuart Gilchriest (15:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And look, I'll say it's amarathon, not a sprint, right.
I think we've always got morethat we can be doing there.
It's not as something as simpleas, Oh, we've checked that box.
Let's move on.
But our leadership starting withour CEO all the way down are
just so focused on the employeeexperience and how we can make
that better for our employees.
We still got a lot of work todo, but we are making a lot of
(15:29):
progress and we're able tocelebrate those wins.
I mentioned that customersatisfaction award, you know,
there was a huge kind ofcampaign following that for a
couple of months where, you know, the award was kind of toured
around the country and our teamsgot to touch it, post photos,
those kinds of things, and justsharing the pride that we all
had in, in receiving that.
And frankly, they earned thataward.
(15:49):
As a customer experience team wemay point out some things where
we can improve, but it's thepeople on the front lines who do
that.
And again, in any business,there are people who are
interacting with customers whoreally do the hard yards.
And it's so important as a CXprogram to recognize the impact
that you can have, not just onthe customer, but on your
(16:10):
employees who will thenultimately have a great impact
on your customer too.
Rhoan Morgan (16:14):
Fantastic! I love that you guys were touring that
around and letting them takepictures and touch it.
To touch the award, it makes itso much more real.
And in the sort of remote worldthat we live in, it's funny
because our team is 100% remote.
I used to say they were ahundred percent virtual, but
then I realized that sounds alittle bit strange.
(16:36):
But we went 100% remote probablytwo years ago.
And we had a lot of these awardsin our office and I'm like,
gosh, now what do we do?
Just, you know, send a pictureof an award, you know, I mean,
so it's a little bit lessexciting.
And so I love that you did atour with us.
That's really important.
It's really important.
(16:57):
Okay.
So let's shift a little bit andtalk, dive actually a bit more
into customer experience.
And as we go through this, I dowant to actually talk about too
what B2B can learn from B2C.
Because I know that's been,that's been primarily your space
, is the consumer space, butwe'll definitely get there.
I'm excited to talk with youabout that.
(17:18):
As a company, at DemandLab, ourwork has been in helping clients
use their technology, use theirdata and then, get great content
to push out through thetechnology, to their audiences.
And it's, you know, for us, wehave seen over the years, a lot
(17:38):
of that technology is startingto really move into the customer
experience space, specificallyin B2B.
That's our area.
We're starting to think aboutthis much more deeply our
clients as a marketing-ledcustomer experience.
As you said, you're embeddedwithin the marketing
organization and we're seeingmore and more thought leaders
(17:59):
and analysts say, Oh,marketing's going to own the
customer experience.
And I always think to myself, Imean, and I think I said this in
one of my last podcasts, hasn'tthis always been the case?
But to some extent, no, ithasn't.
And we see this as a time wheremarketing's role is really
getting even more elevated dueto technology, due to new skill
(18:22):
development and that sort ofthing to sort of be the customer
champion, the real journeycreator and experience
innovator.
But then I think you touched onsomething else that I've been
thinking a lot about, which isthat it is a customer led
experience, right?
So the organizations arebecoming the facilitator.
(18:43):
You know, really working toserve up that frictionless, very
satisfying, ultimately buyingexperience.
And that's our work, that's ourgoal.
So that's sort of how we'rethinking about it.
And I would really love for youto expand on, if you can, you
know, from your experience, andI know you've been in, you've
been in this space for, foryears now.
Who has owned the customerexperience within an
(19:06):
organization, has it always beenmarketing or are there other
folks out there that, you know,are playing an important role
and how has that changed overtime?
Stuart Gilchriest (19:16):
Yeah, definitely.
And I, you know, the short,simple answer is, and it's a
little bit cliche, but it's truethat everyone owns the customer
experience, right?
It's not and shouldn't be leftto one team to really drive
performance in that particulararea because everybody has to
take some ownership of it.
In terms of where customerexperience experiences as a
function sits, I've seen it donemany different ways.
(19:39):
There's pros and cons for all ofthem.
But I've seen CX living within acustomer service organization
before.
And the downside of that is thatyou tend to be very reactive
because you're reacting to thecalls, emails, complaints that
you may be getting.
Obviously with Hertz, we sitwithin marketing and I think we
(20:00):
do a pretty good job of this,but the risk is that you can
then be focused too much on theother way, which is on those
enhancements and not reallyfixing the things that are
broken today.
I've seen it live in operations,certainly in my days in
hospitality, operations tendedto own the CX work.
And then you tend to end up witha lot of score chasing, for
example.
So you know, there's a lot ofdifferent ways of doing it.
(20:23):
In my opinion, an independentcustomer experience function is
probably the way to go, butultimately I think it depends on
what you're trying to achieve.
If you want incremental change,I think that's less important to
be independent.
If you're going for a fulloverhaul of the experience, then
that independence really helps.
The one thing I would say onthat kind of independent model,
the reporting directly to theCEO is you really need a strong
(20:47):
leader for that.
You need someone who knows thebusiness, who is savvy in the
boardroom and can reallynavigate those challenges
because it isn't a trulyestablished function yet.
It isn't taught in everybusiness school across the
country.
So there is work to do, even atthat executive level to educate
on the impact and value that acustomer experience function can
(21:07):
have.
But in many ways it actuallydoesn't matter too much where
you sit within an organization,it matters a lot more about who
you're engaging with and whatyou're doing.
But there are a lot of differentways and every company should
probably treat it differentlybased on what's right for them.
Rhoan Morgan (21:23):
Yeah.
I agree.
Yeah.
You know, when, when we'retalking about it, we are
probably a little bias I'lladmit.
As we think about this going,you know, sort of falling under
marketing and the reason forthat is that marketing has
really been, I think always beenthe discipline with sort of the
most holistic view of thecustomer.
(21:45):
The most sort of customer facingfunction that does sit at the
executive table with the CMO andyou know, that sort of level
marketing leadership.
And they've got some of thecapabilities to really respond
to the customer experience.
And I love that you've kind oflisted out some of the risks of
(22:06):
having this in otherdepartments, but I absolutely
agree with you.
This is a unique decision thathas to be sort of determined by
what your goals are and whatyour company is all about.
Before Hertz, was your customerexperience team based under
marketing, or was it withinanother, I think you said
(22:26):
operations actually.
Stuart Gilchriest (22:28):
In various different kind of lives has been
in different places.
Right?
So in hospitality, it was verymuch under operations.
And as you mentioned in theintro there, as a regional
leader for some restaurantcompanies back in the UK, it was
very much our responsibility asregional leaders to be driving
that performance and findingways to improve it.
As I say, a lot of operatorsgenerally focus on metrics and
(22:52):
what can we do to improve themetrics.
And sometimes that really missesthe point of a good CX program
and a good voice of customerprogram, right?
It's as much around learning andunderstanding what customer
needs and pain points are ratherthan trying to get a better
score of.
Obviously you hope that you getthat if you fix some of the
problems, but that shouldn't bethe method of improving the
(23:16):
experience necessarily.
And then in my last role, itactually lived in customer
service.
And again, that's where you tendto see a little bit more of that
kind of reactive focus on thosecustomer issues as they come up
today, which can then blinkeryou to, how is the customer
(23:36):
evolving?
How are the needs evolving?
And how can we make sure that weare delivering a product and a
service that really works wellfor them, not just today, but in
the future as well.
So, yeah, there's definitelypros and cons of each and I
haven't really seen it doneperfectly in any way, but I
think it depends as much aroundleadership and the key players
(23:58):
on the team being able to getout there and do the work as
opposed to which function yousit within.
Rhoan Morgan (24:03):
I totally agree.
I love that.
When we started to talk aboutthis, I was really excited to
hear from your perspective, whatyou think B2B can take from the
B2C customer experience work andthe groundwork that's been laid.
I sort of think customerexperience has been around for a
(24:25):
long time.
Everybody should and has alreadysort of been thinking about it.
Now in the B2B world, we'restarting to see more and more
people talk about it and sort offinally get it.
I have some great examples thatI will not share on the podcast,
but one day, I'm sure we cantalk through that.
It's fun to share some of thesestories of how B2B companies
(24:47):
were like, Oh no, our audiencedoesn't care about that sort of
thing.
And I'm like yea but, they'reactually, just they're people
too.
And in fact, they'reexperiencing that right now with
Zappos and Amazon and Hertz andyou know, all of these.
So they do actually want that.
They don't become a differenttype of human when they're
buying from you as a businessbuyer.
(25:09):
So what would you say, I guessare some of your top tips that a
B2B company could take from theexperience of B2C and, maybe
either just think about andprocess, or actually even apply
right away.
Stuart Gilchriest (25:24):
Yeah, definitely.
I think there's a lot ofsimilarities, obviously some key
differences, but there's a lotof similarities between, you
know, B2C CX and then B2B CX.
I think the first of those isthat a recognition that it's
really about the entire journeyand as a CX team, you're trying
to join up those different teamsthat interact with the customer
(25:45):
at different stages of thelifecycle.
The tendency can be for thoseteams to look at their siloed
interactions without consideringthat entire life cycle, and the
journey within it.
I think another thing is arecognition that the brand
promise that a company isputting out, and in a B2B world,
the promises that the sales teamare making need to be grounded
(26:08):
in a lot of reality, becauseotherwise you're going to wind
up with some broken brandpromises that really lead to
customer frustration and churnonce they're on board, right?
If you over promise and underdeliver, that's a recipe,
whether it's B2B, B2C or any,any other variant, for customer
dissatisfaction,for a lot ofchurn, reduced retention, all of
(26:32):
those things that come withthat.
And as the CX team, I think it'sour role to tell the story of
what that looks like when itgoes wrong, to help people
understand how they can put it.
Right.
Other things I'd throw into thisis, you know, I think as
marketers, sometimes we believethat just because we say it's
true, then it will be true.
Particularly when we're puttingmessages out there for our
(26:54):
customers, in terms of, youknow, we believe that we as
company X are all about this,that, and the other.
And actually that doesn't meanthat customers will buy that.
That doesn't mean that when youask customers how their
perceptions of your brand are,that doesn't mean they're gonna
repeat those exact three thingsthat you think that you are,
right.
(27:14):
So just because you say topotential prospects, you may be
looking to bring in, that youare the company with the best
service or the best software orthe best product or whatever it
is that you're promising, justbecause you say that's the case
doesn't necessarily mean thatthat's true.
And it's really important tohave a dose of reality when
(27:37):
you're going to that.
And then frankly, I think, youknow, as a prospect myself, for
some companies who sell to me,you can usually see through the
promises, which aren't true,through those sales account
managers in particular whoreally just have that humility
to go look, w e really Excel inthis area.
This is our differentiator.
(27:57):
We have parity in these otherareas.
We're working to get better i n,in these other areas.
I think that goes a long waywhen it comes to that
relationship with the customerbuilding really solid
foundations early on, and thenmaking sure as, the final point
that I would make is, that as asales team, that t hey're
involved with the customerthroughout the life cycle.
(28:18):
Those handoffs sometimes when itgoes from a sales team to an
account management team, cansometimes be really painful.
As a CX team in B2B, you canabsolutely add value there, but,
you know, I would alwaysadvocate in a B2B environment
for, sales employees to be apart of those QBRs, right?
There's quarterly businessreviews going forward.
(28:38):
And also having CX in the roomas well, to understand, you
know, what customers love aboutthe service that you're offering
, what, what can be improved.
And also for those sales folksto really understand how the
impact of their selling cyclecan really make such a good
difference, good or bad on theexperience the customer has once
they're onboarded and using theproduct on a day to day basis.
Rhoan Morgan (29:02):
Great, great tips.
Thinking about CX as the gluebetween the teams, all of the
teams that do need toparticipate and really be
involved.
And I really appreciate yourfocus on sales here as well.
When you think about the journeythat in the, especially in the
B2B space, a prospect takes 75,85, 90% of the way through,
(29:27):
their sort of relationshipbuilding journey before they are
handed over to sales sometimes.
And then sales, depending onobviously the type of sale, this
could be a, you know, a 60 day90 or a three year process.
But nowadays there's so muchmore that happens before they
(29:47):
start to speak to sales.
And then there's so much more,hopefully, with customer
success, you know, that sort of,if you look at that full
timeline, the sales engagementpiece is sort of much shorter
relative to getting them throughengagement with marketing and
(30:07):
then into sales, and then, youknow, spending the rest of their
time as a customer, bringing, Ilove what you're saying about
bringing sales into those QBRs.
I hadn't thought about that.
And I think that's a reallygreat idea.
I just went through a processwhere we went through a
handover, something that webought here at DemandLab, and
the process was pretty good, youknow.
(30:31):
But, you know, as somebody whois already, you know, I'm just
always have my consultant haton.
I was like, Hmm, here are a fewthings that we could do
differently next time I actuallysent it to the guy.
But that's because I reallyliked him as a sales person.
I think he did a fantastic job,but because he did such a good
job, I was expecting something alittle bit different as we were
(30:52):
moving into the onboarding, so ahundred percent with that.
I love that advice.
And what about companies thatare just looking now to build a
CX strategy?
I think there are a lot ofcompanies that know how
important this is.
They kind of get it, but it mayfeel like a big undertaking.
(31:15):
How would you advise a companythat's looking to build, you
know, their first strategy?
Stuart Gilchriest (31:20):
Yeah, I think the key is to start small.
It can seem very daunting andoverwhelming when you're first
going into a program like this,that you have to be able to
survey every single customer andyou have to know everything that
everybody's thinking at everysingle minute.
And it's just not the case.
I think starting small focusingon key partners within the
(31:46):
business who do buy into this,working with them and helping
them to succeed is really thekey to getting started.
Obviously you need thatexecutive buy in as well.
Otherwise it's very hard to getoff the ground.
But if you're starting up alistening program to understand
what your customers think, nomatter the environment, that in
(32:07):
itself will lead to a lot ofrewards further down the line.
Once you have those commentsthat really speak in the
customer's voice about what isgood and what is bad about your
experience, you've then takenthe perhaps internal politics
out of it a little bit.
It's no longer you saying to aleader, Hey, we need to change
(32:28):
this.
The customer is a real guidinglight in that because there's
actually a third party thatsays, you know what?
You're not as good as you thinkyou are in this area.
And I love it when you do thisfor me, but you need to do it
more often.
And then those, you know, it'sreally important not to
underestimate the power, thatthe customer's words, whether
it's in a survey, whether it'sin videos, you can get very
(32:50):
creative with it.
Those words that they have areso powerful that they can
actually drive change mucheasier than you can in a.
Meeting room or on a conferencecall, trying to get people to
see the light, if that makessense.
Celebrating those small winswhen you get them, I think is
also super important, especiallyearly on and demonstrating the
(33:13):
impact that you're havingideally through some ROI work is
also super important.
Again, we talk about ROI and itsounds very complicated.
It's really not as complicatedas it sounds.
You can get to some very basicmodels very, very quickly, but
if you can show the impact thatyou have on the business on a
very small project with onesmall team, then that becomes
(33:37):
your mandate to scale that andhave similar impacts all over
the business.
And of course, what you thentend to find is that those
initial skeptics who weren'tquite bought in, when they start
seeing some of their peersgetting success, because you've
worked with them and you've madethem look good, essentially,
then you start to see themcoming to you, asking for a
(33:59):
little bit of what you're doing.
So that momentum is so, soimportant and then, you know,
getting those small wins,celebrating them, you'll be able
to naturally expand your programpretty quickly.
But, you know, as I say, startsmall, start with the voice of
the customer and then pushthings forward from there.
As you start to build thatmomentum, it'll quickly become
(34:22):
one of those things that you'llfind that you need to start
saying no to people, but saying,yes, we'll come to that.
But give me a couple of monthsbecause we're just inundated
right now.
So, that's when you know thatyou, I think you've cracked it
as the CX team, when people arecoming to you with requests for
either insights or data or helpwith some of the initiatives
that they're looking to get offthe ground.
Rhoan Morgan (34:43):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I think it sounds likescaling wisely.
Not trying to conquereverything, the entire customer
experience opportunity, butfinding a way to do that in a
very reasonable and manageableway, especially if you still
(35:04):
need to convince some folks.
So, you know, doing those proofsof concepts where you can then
really demonstrate ROI.
And again, I agree with you, youtalked about it earlier, you
know, real data, real insights,building credibility, and then
you will have people bangingdown your door saying, can we be
next?
Can we be next?
(35:24):
And that's gotta be an excitingmoment where you know that
you're making real impact and,you look forward to heading to
work every day, making thosechanges.
Stuart Gilchriest (35:38):
Yeah and you'll come across some skeptics
for sure who will be thinking,if not saying, why do we need
this?
We all understand what thecustomer thinks.
We all know what they need.
We just need to focus ondelivering it rather than
anything else.
But you know, even something assimple as car rental, what I've
found is that if you ask 10different people, what is the
(35:59):
experience that we're trying tocreate for customers?
If you haven't done the work toreally outline a strategy, if
you haven't done the work toreally articulate how you want
customers to feel when they'vebeen going through your
experience, even something thateverybody has a base
understanding of in car rental,you ask 10 people what they
think you'll get 10 differentanswers.
(36:19):
And people aren't generallyaligned as aligned as they think
they are.
And I think that that can be anopportunity with those skeptics
if you handle it in the rightway, just to prove that just
because I see the world throughmy own eyes and I think that our
experience is a certain way,that doesn't mean that that's
necessarily the case when youput it up against other people's
(36:39):
experiences.
And then you multiply that bythe number of customers you
have.
And you get to realize that it'sa lot more complicated perhaps
than people really understand.
And that, you know, a lot of theCX work that you're doing is
about aligning people, bringingthem together and giving them a
central, one version of truthview of the customer, because
(37:02):
there's a lot of differentversions of the truth out there.
And sometimes it's your role tobreak that down a little bit and
actually say, this is thecustomer story.
This is what they love.
This is what they hate.
And really this is what they'rebuying from us.
This is the need that they'retrying to fill when they buy
from us.
So you'd be amazed at the broadranges of responses you'll get
(37:23):
when you ask those questions.
Rhoan Morgan (37:25):
Well, I mean, we actually had a client, this was
several years ago and we didhelp them with this, but we
asked them for their personas.
And I think we got like 40different documents.
And they had all been created Ithink only by, I feel like it
was somebody in operations.
(37:46):
It wasn't anybody in marketing.
They were all like five yearsold.
I mean, it was just amazing tome when we saw this and we just
thought, how do you know this isreal anymore?
How are you, able to sort ofquantify this?
How were they developed and thatsort of thing.
I think you work in that spacequite a lot.
(38:06):
And it's important to be able toshare that and really
illuminate, I think, for theentire organization, the voice
of the customer, as you weretalking about.
Stuart Gilchriest (38:15):
Of course, the risk there is that you try
and be all things to all people.
If you've got 40 personas, thenyou've got a lot of people
marching in different directionsand what your customer feels is
just a confused, muddled messagethat doesn't actually mean that
much to them, it doesn'tresonate.
And then really what they'regoing to boil their decision
making down to is price.
And of course, you know, theexperience has to help you
(38:38):
differentiate so that peoplearen't just comparing you
against your competitors basedon price, but what value they're
getting from what they'rebuying.
So, yeah, I've seen that a lot.
Rhoan Morgan (38:47):
Yep.
Well, and you know, I thinkwe're seeing it more and more,
experience is the keydifferentiator and it is what
will win more business.
And I think that's actually oneof the big arguments for rolling
out a more sophisticated CXprogram throughout a business
and that's, that's been shownagain and again.
(39:09):
I think we're just starting tosee, probably because of more
technology and analyticscapabilities, the data that
supports that.
So it's no longer a hunch.
Right?
Stuart Gilchriest (39:18):
Definitely couldn't agree more.
Rhoan Morgan (39:21):
This has just been a fantastic conversation.
I really appreciate it.
And I think that our listenersare gonna just gain so much from
hearing your thinking and theadvice and the recommendations
that you've made.
I really thank you for joiningus.
Now, one of the things that wedo with all of our guests, at
least for during this year, wejust started it, is sort of our
(39:42):
Lightning Round.
So we're going to take youthrough this segment, which is
just five quick questions.
Some of them might be more onthe personal side and others
definitely on the professionalside, but it gives us a little
opportunity to learn more aboutyou.
Stuart Gilchriest (39:57):
Sounds like fun.
Rhoan Morgan (39:58):
Cool.
So let's start with somethingmore personal.
What is one fun fact about youthat listeners might be
surprised to know?
Stuart Gilchriest (40:07):
Well, I've been in the US for a few years
now and I never intended to livehere.
I actually came, as youmentioned in the intro, to do my
MBA and met my wife in gradschool and never looked back.
Rhoan Morgan (40:19):
I love it.
And you've been on the Eastcoast, as you said, now you're
in the sunnier region, which Ican't blame you at all.
That's exciting.
And I can understand the drawfor sure.
And that's your wife I'mactually referring to more than
anything else.
Can you tell us, what is yourcurrent, you know, maybe a
(40:42):
couple of go to resources formarketing and customer
experience news and insightsthat you really refer to on a
regular basis that you think ourlisteners could enjoy?
Stuart Gilchriest (40:51):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm really into the humanbehavior side of CX at the
moment.
Almost that kind of amateurpsychologist in me.
It really helps with thatunderstanding why customers make
decisions in those very kind ofdeep levels and unlocking some
of those things, which arehidden in our brains.
And, my countrymen, Colin Shawat Beyond Philosophy is
(41:12):
actually, you know, I just pourover all of their work from
their articles and insights.
They just do a lot of things.
And they've really, yeah, that'skinda my go to when it comes to
thinking about how we may beable to change how our customers
make decisions, how we may beable to learn about the more.
And really just kind ofunderstand how the brains work.
(41:32):
I think it's a very underratedpart of CX at the moment.
Rhoan Morgan (41:37):
I wonder if the folks that go from marketing
into CX are the ones that aremore thinking about human
behavior and learning about thatand are those amateur
psychologists, which I canrelate to quite a lot.
Stuart Gilchriest (41:49):
Probably there's something in that I
think.
Rhoan Morgan (41:52):
Yeah.
So what is one piece of advicethat you would give to somebody
starting out in customerexperience who wants to become a
future leader in the space?
Stuart Gilchriest (42:06):
Yeah, I think it's something that I tell
everyone who's new to our teamand have done for a few years is
wear comfortable shoes, right?
This was a pre-COVID bit ofadvice.
So I probably need to adjust itslightly, but, you know, getting
your face and name known aroundthe office, whether it's
physically or now a little bitmore virtually, it is so, so
(42:30):
important.
It's especially important incustomer experience because
relationships help you getthings done.
But even in this COVID world,right, whether it's getting on
zoom calls, understanding whothe people are that you're
working with and how you canmake them look good,
particularly if they're seniorleaders can really help you
excel and also get their buy inand support when you're trying
(42:54):
to get your ideas pushedthrough.
So that would be my one piece ofadvice, whether it's on Zoom or
in person, wear comfortableshoes.
Rhoan Morgan (43:03):
Love it and sort of related if you could give
your younger self one piece ofadvice, what would that be?
Stuart Gilchriest (43:12):
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think probably just neversettle with just okay.
Whether it's in your personallife, your professional life.
If you aren't happy withsomething, don't be afraid to
take the leap.
It can feel daunting, but youknow, it almost always works out
in the end.
And for me personally, both inmy personal and career, if I
(43:36):
hadn't taken that leap and Ijust settled for, okay, then I
wouldn't be where I am today.
So I think that's something Iwish I'd known a little bit
earlier in life for sure.
Rhoan Morgan (43:46):
Oh, I can appreciate that.
Absolutely.
Alright.
Last question.
What are maybe the top threemarketing tools that you cannot
live without?
CX, marketing, whichever.
Stuart Gilchriest (43:58):
Yup.
Yeah, so I think they're fairlysimple.
I think the first is obviously agood survey platform.
Clearly without that voice ofcustomer, you're really gonna
struggle.
So that's one key thing that Idefinitely can't live without.
I'm a big fan of datavisualization, and sharing some
(44:19):
of those, insights.
We use Tableau a lot at Hertz.
I've used it in otherorganizations.
And that's just great forturning really complicated data
into really simple themes andideas.
And then the last one isactually probably the simplest
one that we always, and that'sPowerPoint.
I think that's just a reallyunderrated tool.
And sometimes a really misusedtool and maybe it's the internal
(44:42):
consultant in me, I don't know,but I've seen some PowerPoint
done really well.
And you can convey really clearideas through great slide design
on PowerPoint.
And then frankly you can confusepeople more than when they
started reading it, if you don'tget it right.
So that's something that I use alot and I'm constantly thinking
(45:03):
about how I can improve and inmy PowerPoint skills in
particular.
Rhoan Morgan (45:07):
I think that's fantastic.
I love it.
I love it.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to be with us.
Thank you so much for joiningthe show.
I am positive we're going tohave a lot of great, I think
feedback and that our listenersare gonna get a lot out of this.
So one last thing before we dogo, what is the best way for
(45:28):
listeners to reach out to you ifthey have any questions?
Stuart Gilchriest (45:32):
LinkedIn is the best place to connect.
I'm always keen to connect withfellow customer experience
professionals and really justexpand my network even beyond
that.
So, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn,Stuart Gilchriest.
I'll probably be in the shownotes, so that's probably the
easiest way to look me up.
I have one of those names, whichis a little bit hard to spell,
(45:53):
so that's probably the easiestway for people to find me.
Rhoan Morgan (45:56):
We will definitely have it in the show notes.
Absolutely.
I really look forward toconnecting with you again in the
future.
Stuart Gilchriest (46:02):
Thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure.
Rhoan Morgan (46:03):
A big thank you to our listeners for tuning into
Revenue Rebels.
Remember, you can get our shownotes, links, and other content
related to today's topic atdemandlab.com/revenuerebels.
While you're there, let us knowif there's a leader you want to
hear from or a topic you'd liketo hear more about on this show.
(46:25):
I'm your host, Rhoan Morgan.
And you can find me on Twitterat@rhoanmorgan, it's R-H-O-A-N
Morgan.
And of course, look us up onLinkedIn.
Look up DemandLab or search, orR-H-O-A-N Morgan.
And finally, only if you thinkwe've earned it, please head
over to Apple Podcast, Spotifyor wherever you're listening to
us right now and subscribe, rateand review the show until next
(46:50):
time.
Rebels.
Thank you.
Hey everyone.
Welcome to another episode ofRevenue Rebels, the podcast that
brings marketing and salesrebels together to share their
stories and thinking on alltopics related to accelerating
revenue, generating activitiesin the B2B world.
On this show, we talk about thestrategic vision of
marketing-led customerexperience that unleashes the
(00:23):
combined power of technology,content and data.
Are you ready to rebel?
Let's get into the show.
Hello listeners.
And welcome back to anotherepisode of Revenue Rebels.
Today's guest is originally fromthe UK, as you will learn very
(00:44):
quickly once he starts speaking.
He grew up professionally as anarea manager in the hospitality
industry before he had theopportunity to move to Boston to
study his MBA.
So what's exciting is that whenhe was at, he moved to Boston at
studied his MBA and thenactually was able to take that
to pivot his career into an areathat I'm personally really
(01:05):
passionate about, which iscustomer experience.
And he's been working incustomer experience in the
travel industry for the past sixyears.
Stuart Gilchriest is joining ustoday.
He's a certified customerexperience professional, and
he's currently working at Hertzleading customer experience
initiatives.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday, Stuart.
Stuart Gilchriest (01:25):
Thanks for having me on, it's a pleasure.
Rhoan Morgan (01:28):
We've been preparing for this a little
while and getting to know you abit beforehand.
I'm really excited to be able toshare your insights and what
you're learning around customerexperience, especially in
today's environment.
And how to really sort of keepthe lights on and continue to
grow initiatives even whenthings are maybe more
(01:48):
challenging.
One of the things that we liketo kick off our shows with is
the rebel segment, where ourguests gets to share a little
bit about their personalexperience and their sort of
journey professionally.
So can you just take a moment toshare with us a rebel act from
your professional journey, yourmarketing journey that maybe
(02:10):
brought together customerexperience and marketing within
an organization.
It's an area that we're reallypassionate about.
How do these two things worktogether?
I'd love to hear if you'vetackled that.
Stuart Gilchriest (02:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, you know, in customerexperience, it's often your job
to challenge the status quo.
I think, you know, being a rebelit almost kind of comes with the
territory when you take acustomer experience role.
And, you know, for me, just likea lot of people, I just think
there's a golden opportunitywhen you join a new company or
even you're promoted internallyinto a new CX role, just to
(02:45):
really get the lay of the land,meet with some execs and peers
and really just challenge whythings are the way they are.
So, you know, to prepare forthat, what I did when I came in
Hertz was really to make sure Iwas bringing the customer voice
and their feedback into thoseconversations.
To approach those conversationswith those leaders in very much
(03:08):
a way that was designed to tryand learn and understand more
about them, about what motivatethem, and what's important to
them in terms of the business.
But it was also an opportunityjust to probe and look at some
of that legacy thinking a littlebit, just to understand, you
know, why are things this wayand actually from a customer
(03:29):
perspective, and as someonewho's new to the business, you
just have this goldenopportunity to bring in some new
ideas, some new thoughts, andreally some new perspectives
with your experiences with thatparticular brand.
So, you know, that's what I wasable to do.
And I think that really helpsyou to build your reputation, to
understand who the key playersin the business are, build those
(03:52):
relationships and really findallies for your future work.
I think that's a really keypiece when you're coming into
any new, organization.
You know, but coming back to therebels piece, I think that it's
just a great opportunity toreally push back on some of
those things, which are just theaccepted ways of doing business.
Car rental is classic for that.
(04:13):
And it was really refreshing andenlightening to be able to come
in and really just share kind ofsome of those customer pain
points and frustrations andunderstand why it is that way
and figure out where theopportunities to drive change
actually were.
Rhoan Morgan (04:28):
You actually pointed out something that I
think is really important andI've spent time on this myself
as somebody who's worked with alot of marketers, they're hyper
creative people and oftentimeswill come into an organization
wanting to make a lot ofchanges, right?
They're going to see ways toimprove, to make improvements,
(04:48):
to optimize and put their stampor their fingerprint on things.
And one way of doing that isdefinitely being the challenger
who goes in and asks those hardquestions.
We were talking about this alittle bit ago, you're at a
company that is a century old,right?
So there has to have been, youknow, first of all, I think
(05:11):
kudos to a company that iswilling to take the step and
recognize the importance ofcustomer experience and how that
can transform a business.
Maybe can you share a little bitabout, you know, the process
that you went through to reallybring this through the
organization?
Stuart Gilchriest (05:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
It really, for me, it startswith digging in to that customer
feedback.
Both the qualitative feedbackthat we're getting and also the
quantitative feedback.
You know, hopefully you'recoming into an organization
where that already exists.
If not, there's definitely somegroundwork to lay first.
But assuming that thatinformation is there, I think
(05:52):
it's super important if you arecoming in challenging the status
quo and coming in with lot ofideas that you're actually just
not shooting from the hip, butyou're really basing those,
based on customer insights.
That you've already got a goodunderstanding of what matters to
customers and what adds value tocustomers, because then you're
able to go ahead and prioritizesome of those things.
(06:15):
That way you avoid those kindsof fantasy projects where you
come in, because we all see theworld through our own eyes,
right?
We all assume that ourexperience with the brand is
exactly the same as everybodyelse's.
And when you've got, you know,thousands and thousands of
customers, every single day,it's wrong to assume that yours
is the only experience thatmatters.
So you really have to come inwith that humility and
(06:37):
understanding, and really that,you know, you've got to get knee
deep in the data and what yourcustomers are saying, and then
you can bring that to life.
And then in those conversations,you have that credibility when
you're meeting with your seniorleaders who perhaps don't have
the time to really sift throughall that information in as much
detail.
You have that credibility tosay, like I've been through a
(06:58):
lot of the comments and a lot ofthe things I see are X, Y, and
Zed.
How do we think about drivingthat change?
How do we think about creating abetter experience for our
customers?
So, you know, having that dataand that insight to share before
you go into those conversations,I think is the critical part of,
changing people's minds andreally proving that you're
(07:20):
serious.
And you know, that you know whatyou're talking about.
Rhoan Morgan (07:24):
Music to my ears, and I love that we are starting
this segment talking abouthaving the real data, having
those insights that are based onboth qualitative and
quantitative measures.
I think you're absolutely right.
It's easy to go into a situationand say,"well, this is sort of
what my gut tells me," one of myleast favorite sentences, unless
(07:48):
your gut is also backed up bydata, then, you know, great
bring it on.
Couldn't agree more.
And we talk about that a lottoo.
You know, how do you, can you gointo an executive meeting and
really sort of help those lightbulbs go off and you have to go
in with that foundation, whichis going to build the
credibility in what you'retrying to do.
(08:10):
Maybe can you share a couple ofthe outcomes that you've seen or
examples of successes?
I know you've been there now acouple of years.
What would you say sort of youare most proud of in terms of
the process you've gone throughso far?
Stuart Gilchriest (08:25):
Yeah, sure.
I think one of the, one of thekey roles, I think in CX, at
least in our company and a lotof different companies,
obviously we're B2C, but you canapply this in the B2B space as
well is, you know, CX really hasto be that glue that brings, you
know, the marketers who are kindof making promises to potential
customers and the, in our case,the operators who actually
(08:47):
deliver that experience, buteven in a B2B environment that
may be onboarding teams andaccount managers, and just
bringing those two teams reallyclosely together.
Because I think if we're makinga promise that we aren't able to
keep and isn't founded inreality, then that's where bad
experiences happen and customerservice issues come in.
So that was really our approachreally from day one.
(09:08):
And one of the outcomes thatcame from that was a really
collaborative session that wehad with the marketing
leadership team around brandstrategy and CX strategy.
In my mind, those two things arecertainly different, but they
should live on the same page ofthe same document, they should
be referenced equally.
And people should have a reallygood understanding of how they
(09:28):
play together at that highlevel.
So that was definitely somethingthat we were able to achieve in
that first year.
And then since then we've seenimproved customer retention on a
very consistent basis.
We were very proud to be awardedthe JD Power Award for customer
satisfaction in car rental lastyear, and really anticipating
(09:52):
the results being released thisyear as well.
And I think probably the leasttangible, but one of the most
important outcomes that we hadfrom that work was that, CX is
really an embedded role now.
We're seen as much more thanjust the survey team, which is
certainly a part of it, butthere's so much more to it than
that.
Really we're asked for our inputwhen it comes to key decisions,
(10:16):
key marketing campaigns, andwhen people want to know more
about their customers, they'recoming to us to ask what our
insights might be and for us tohelp tell that story for them.
Rhoan Morgan (10:27):
I think that's huge and could not agree more
that it has to be embedded intoevery aspect of a business.
And one of the challenges thatwe see is that it's a bit
siloed, you know, where you ownthis part of the customer's
experience or journey, if that'smarketing or sales or customer
(10:48):
support product operations.
And once you can sort of infusethat throughout every team and
team member, which it soundslike, I think that's been a big
focus for you.
It is, you know, the results andthe return on your efforts is 10
times, a hundred times what youcould, which you could expect
(11:09):
otherwise.
So in the example that you werejust talking about, you know, I
want to just shift over to talkabout teams a little bit,
because you started to sharethat you were working with, some
of the marketing leaders andbringing together brand strategy
and CX strategy.
Can you share a bit about theteams and the other stakeholders
that you were able to bringtogether to start to pull this
(11:31):
throughout the entireorganization?
So who, and maybe is it a teamor an organization within Hertz
that was surprising?
Tell us a story about, aboutthat.
Stuart Gilchriest (11:41):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
The fun thing for me with anycustomer experience work is you
get to just engage with prettymuch everyone in the business.
The program and the idea behindit is about really lifting other
people up, driving that culturalchange and helping them to be
successful.
So, we sit within marketing inHertz.
(12:02):
But as I mentioned earlier, theoperations team for us, the
frontline men and women who goabove and beyond for our
customers every single day, wasreally the team that we knew was
critical to engage.
And we continually seek theirengagement on a lot of these
(12:22):
things, because we know thatwhatever we write down on a nice
PowerPoint deck doesn't reallymean anything, unless it means
something to our staff and ourgreat kind of people out there
in the field who go in every dayand just do amazing things for
our customers.
So in terms of surprises, Iwouldn't say that that was
necessarily a surprise, but itwas definitely hard work, right.
(12:42):
I think, you know, with anyonewho is dealing with customers
day in day out, it can be a realchallenge, I think sometimes to
step back and see a biggerpicture.
And that's really what wecontinually help them to do.
Whether that's people on thephones, in a customer service
role, whether it's people in ourlocations.
(13:02):
It's really kind of crucial thatwe are providing that insight
that helps people step back justa little bit and understand,
okay, this is the big picturebeyond this customer who's right
in front of me today.
These are the trends we'reseeing.
This is what the real painpoints and sticking points for
customers are.
So that was definitely somethingthat was really important to us,
(13:23):
how we went about doing that wasreally just democratizing the
insights.
I think sometimes you hear aboutdemocratizing data, but for us,
it was really about sharingthose insights and making sure
that as many people as possiblehad access to those to really
understand what was going on.
And when we get it right forpeople, what are the key things
that they value in thatexperience?
(13:44):
And when it doesn't go so well,where are the opportunities that
we can improve?
I think that has reallyencouraged our entire frontline
team and really our entireorganization to think about
those customer problems as theyare today.
And I'll tell you, you know, acouple of years into this role,
we get so much more input andcreative solutions coming from
(14:05):
other teams than we used tobecause people are now thinking
about customer problems and howwe can solve them.
So, you know, that's a key partof the catalyst part of the
customer experience role, in myopinion.
Rhoan Morgan (14:17):
You know, I was just reading an article not too
long ago about the correlationor the connection between
employee experience and customerexperience.
And it sounds like that'sobviously been forefront for you
guys where ensuring that ifyou've got employees who
themselves are having afantastic experience who are
(14:42):
really plugged into anorganization and who get the
greater purpose of, you know,what's coming out of the
PowerPoint, essentially, whatdoes it really mean to them?
Then they're able to reallyprovide something, you know,
sort of at a next level fortheir customers that they're
working with every day, be thaton the phone in person, that
(15:03):
sort of thing.
Is that something that you guysthought about?
Stuart Gilchriest (15:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
And look, I'll say it's amarathon, not a sprint, right.
I think we've always got morethat we can be doing there.
It's not as something as simpleas, Oh, we've checked that box.
Let's move on.
But our leadership starting withour CEO all the way down are
just so focused on the employeeexperience and how we can make
that better for our employees.
We still got a lot of work todo, but we are making a lot of
(15:29):
progress and we're able tocelebrate those wins.
I mentioned that customersatisfaction award, you know,
there was a huge kind ofcampaign following that for a
couple of months where, you know, the award was kind of toured
around the country and our teamsgot to touch it, post photos,
those kinds of things, and justsharing the pride that we all
had in, in receiving that.
And frankly, they earned thataward.
(15:49):
As a customer experience team wemay point out some things where
we can improve, but it's thepeople on the front lines who do
that.
And again, in any business,there are people who are
interacting with customers whoreally do the hard yards.
And it's so important as a CXprogram to recognize the impact
that you can have, not just onthe customer, but on your
(16:10):
employees who will thenultimately have a great impact
on your customer too.
Rhoan Morgan (16:14):
Fantastic! I love that you guys were touring that
around and letting them takepictures and touch it.
To touch the award, it makes itso much more real.
And in the sort of remote worldthat we live in, it's funny
because our team is 100% remote.
I used to say they were ahundred percent virtual, but
then I realized that sounds alittle bit strange.
(16:36):
But we went 100% remote probablytwo years ago.
And we had a lot of these awardsin our office and I'm like,
gosh, now what do we do?
Just, you know, send a pictureof an award, you know, I mean,
so it's a little bit lessexciting.
And so I love that you did atour with us.
That's really important.
It's really important.
(16:57):
Okay.
So let's shift a little bit andtalk, dive actually a bit more
into customer experience.
And as we go through this, I dowant to actually talk about too
what B2B can learn from B2C.
Because I know that's been,that's been primarily your space
, is the consumer space, butwe'll definitely get there.
I'm excited to talk with youabout that.
(17:18):
As a company, at DemandLab, ourwork has been in helping clients
use their technology, use theirdata and then, get great content
to push out through thetechnology, to their audiences.
And it's, you know, for us, wehave seen over the years, a lot
(17:38):
of that technology is startingto really move into the customer
experience space, specificallyin B2B.
That's our area.
We're starting to think aboutthis much more deeply our
clients as a marketing-ledcustomer experience.
As you said, you're embeddedwithin the marketing
organization and we're seeingmore and more thought leaders
(17:59):
and analysts say, Oh,marketing's going to own the
customer experience.
And I always think to myself, Imean, and I think I said this in
one of my last podcasts, hasn'tthis always been the case?
But to some extent, no, ithasn't.
And we see this as a time wheremarketing's role is really
getting even more elevated dueto technology, due to new skill
(18:22):
development and that sort ofthing to sort of be the customer
champion, the real journeycreator and experience
innovator.
But then I think you touched onsomething else that I've been
thinking a lot about, which isthat it is a customer led
experience, right?
So the organizations arebecoming the facilitator.
(18:43):
You know, really working toserve up that frictionless, very
satisfying, ultimately buyingexperience.
And that's our work, that's ourgoal.
So that's sort of how we'rethinking about it.
And I would really love for youto expand on, if you can, you
know, from your experience, andI know you've been in, you've
been in this space for, foryears now.
Who has owned the customerexperience within an
(19:06):
organization, has it always beenmarketing or are there other
folks out there that, you know,are playing an important role
and how has that changed overtime?
Stuart Gilchriest (19:16):
Yeah, definitely.
And I, you know, the short,simple answer is, and it's a
little bit cliche, but it's truethat everyone owns the customer
experience, right?
It's not and shouldn't be leftto one team to really drive
performance in that particulararea because everybody has to
take some ownership of it.
In terms of where customerexperience experiences as a
function sits, I've seen it donemany different ways.
(19:39):
There's pros and cons for all ofthem.
But I've seen CX living within acustomer service organization
before.
And the downside of that is thatyou tend to be very reactive
because you're reacting to thecalls, emails, complaints that
you may be getting.
Obviously with Hertz, we sitwithin marketing and I think we
(20:00):
do a pretty good job of this,but the risk is that you can
then be focused too much on theother way, which is on those
enhancements and not reallyfixing the things that are
broken today.
I've seen it live in operations,certainly in my days in
hospitality, operations tendedto own the CX work.
And then you tend to end up witha lot of score chasing, for
example.
So you know, there's a lot ofdifferent ways of doing it.
(20:23):
In my opinion, an independentcustomer experience function is
probably the way to go, butultimately I think it depends on
what you're trying to achieve.
If you want incremental change,I think that's less important to
be independent.
If you're going for a fulloverhaul of the experience, then
that independence really helps.
The one thing I would say onthat kind of independent model,
the reporting directly to theCEO is you really need a strong
(20:47):
leader for that.
You need someone who knows thebusiness, who is savvy in the
boardroom and can reallynavigate those challenges
because it isn't a trulyestablished function yet.
It isn't taught in everybusiness school across the
country.
So there is work to do, even atthat executive level to educate
on the impact and value that acustomer experience function can
(21:07):
have.
But in many ways it actuallydoesn't matter too much where
you sit within an organization,it matters a lot more about who
you're engaging with and whatyou're doing.
But there are a lot of differentways and every company should
probably treat it differentlybased on what's right for them.
Rhoan Morgan (21:23):
Yeah.
I agree.
Yeah.
You know, when, when we'retalking about it, we are
probably a little bias I'lladmit.
As we think about this going,you know, sort of falling under
marketing and the reason forthat is that marketing has
really been, I think always beenthe discipline with sort of the
most holistic view of thecustomer.
(21:45):
The most sort of customer facingfunction that does sit at the
executive table with the CMO andyou know, that sort of level
marketing leadership.
And they've got some of thecapabilities to really respond
to the customer experience.
And I love that you've kind oflisted out some of the risks of
(22:06):
having this in otherdepartments, but I absolutely
agree with you.
This is a unique decision thathas to be sort of determined by
what your goals are and whatyour company is all about.
Before Hertz, was your customerexperience team based under
marketing, or was it withinanother, I think you said
(22:26):
operations actually.
Stuart Gilchriest (22:28):
In various different kind of lives has been
in different places.
Right?
So in hospitality, it was verymuch under operations.
And as you mentioned in theintro there, as a regional
leader for some restaurantcompanies back in the UK, it was
very much our responsibility asregional leaders to be driving
that performance and findingways to improve it.
As I say, a lot of operatorsgenerally focus on metrics and
(22:52):
what can we do to improve themetrics.
And sometimes that really missesthe point of a good CX program
and a good voice of customerprogram, right?
It's as much around learning andunderstanding what customer
needs and pain points are ratherthan trying to get a better
score of.
Obviously you hope that you getthat if you fix some of the
problems, but that shouldn't bethe method of improving the
(23:16):
experience necessarily.
And then in my last role, itactually lived in customer
service.
And again, that's where you tendto see a little bit more of that
kind of reactive focus on thosecustomer issues as they come up
today, which can then blinkeryou to, how is the customer
(23:36):
evolving?
How are the needs evolving?
And how can we make sure that weare delivering a product and a
service that really works wellfor them, not just today, but in
the future as well.
So, yeah, there's definitelypros and cons of each and I
haven't really seen it doneperfectly in any way, but I
think it depends as much aroundleadership and the key players
(23:58):
on the team being able to getout there and do the work as
opposed to which function yousit within.
Rhoan Morgan (24:03):
I totally agree.
I love that.
When we started to talk aboutthis, I was really excited to
hear from your perspective, whatyou think B2B can take from the
B2C customer experience work andthe groundwork that's been laid.
I sort of think customerexperience has been around for a
(24:25):
long time.
Everybody should and has alreadysort of been thinking about it.
Now in the B2B world, we'restarting to see more and more
people talk about it and sort offinally get it.
I have some great examples thatI will not share on the podcast,
but one day, I'm sure we cantalk through that.
It's fun to share some of thesestories of how B2B companies
(24:47):
were like, Oh no, our audiencedoesn't care about that sort of
thing.
And I'm like yea but, they'reactually, just they're people
too.
And in fact, they'reexperiencing that right now with
Zappos and Amazon and Hertz andyou know, all of these.
So they do actually want that.
They don't become a differenttype of human when they're
buying from you as a businessbuyer.
(25:09):
So what would you say, I guessare some of your top tips that a
B2B company could take from theexperience of B2C and, maybe
either just think about andprocess, or actually even apply
right away.
Stuart Gilchriest (25:24):
Yeah, definitely.
I think there's a lot ofsimilarities, obviously some key
differences, but there's a lotof similarities between, you
know, B2C CX and then B2B CX.
I think the first of those isthat a recognition that it's
really about the entire journeyand as a CX team, you're trying
to join up those different teamsthat interact with the customer
(25:45):
at different stages of thelifecycle.
The tendency can be for thoseteams to look at their siloed
interactions without consideringthat entire life cycle, and the
journey within it.
I think another thing is arecognition that the brand
promise that a company isputting out, and in a B2B world,
the promises that the sales teamare making need to be grounded
(26:08):
in a lot of reality, becauseotherwise you're going to wind
up with some broken brandpromises that really lead to
customer frustration and churnonce they're on board, right?
If you over promise and underdeliver, that's a recipe,
whether it's B2B, B2C or any,any other variant, for customer
dissatisfaction,for a lot ofchurn, reduced retention, all of
(26:32):
those things that come withthat.
And as the CX team, I think it'sour role to tell the story of
what that looks like when itgoes wrong, to help people
understand how they can put it.
Right.
Other things I'd throw into thisis, you know, I think as
marketers, sometimes we believethat just because we say it's
true, then it will be true.
Particularly when we're puttingmessages out there for our
(26:54):
customers, in terms of, youknow, we believe that we as
company X are all about this,that, and the other.
And actually that doesn't meanthat customers will buy that.
That doesn't mean that when youask customers how their
perceptions of your brand are,that doesn't mean they're gonna
repeat those exact three thingsthat you think that you are,
right.
(27:14):
So just because you say topotential prospects, you may be
looking to bring in, that youare the company with the best
service or the best software orthe best product or whatever it
is that you're promising, justbecause you say that's the case
doesn't necessarily mean thatthat's true.
And it's really important tohave a dose of reality when
(27:37):
you're going to that.
And then frankly, I think, youknow, as a prospect myself, for
some companies who sell to me,you can usually see through the
promises, which aren't true,through those sales account
managers in particular whoreally just have that humility
to go look, w e really Excel inthis area.
This is our differentiator.
(27:57):
We have parity in these otherareas.
We're working to get better i n,in these other areas.
I think that goes a long waywhen it comes to that
relationship with the customerbuilding really solid
foundations early on, and thenmaking sure as, the final point
that I would make is, that as asales team, that t hey're
involved with the customerthroughout the life cycle.
(28:18):
Those handoffs sometimes when itgoes from a sales team to an
account management team, cansometimes be really painful.
As a CX team in B2B, you canabsolutely add value there, but,
you know, I would alwaysadvocate in a B2B environment
for, sales employees to be apart of those QBRs, right?
There's quarterly businessreviews going forward.
(28:38):
And also having CX in the roomas well, to understand, you
know, what customers love aboutthe service that you're offering
, what, what can be improved.
And also for those sales folksto really understand how the
impact of their selling cyclecan really make such a good
difference, good or bad on theexperience the customer has once
they're onboarded and using theproduct on a day to day basis.
Rhoan Morgan (29:02):
Great, great tips.
Thinking about CX as the gluebetween the teams, all of the
teams that do need toparticipate and really be
involved.
And I really appreciate yourfocus on sales here as well.
When you think about the journeythat in the, especially in the
B2B space, a prospect takes 75,85, 90% of the way through,
(29:27):
their sort of relationshipbuilding journey before they are
handed over to sales sometimes.
And then sales, depending onobviously the type of sale, this
could be a, you know, a 60 day90 or a three year process.
But nowadays there's so muchmore that happens before they
(29:47):
start to speak to sales.
And then there's so much more,hopefully, with customer
success, you know, that sort of,if you look at that full
timeline, the sales engagementpiece is sort of much shorter
relative to getting them throughengagement with marketing and
(30:07):
then into sales, and then, youknow, spending the rest of their
time as a customer, bringing, Ilove what you're saying about
bringing sales into those QBRs.
I hadn't thought about that.
And I think that's a reallygreat idea.
I just went through a processwhere we went through a
handover, something that webought here at DemandLab, and
the process was pretty good, youknow.
(30:31):
But, you know, as somebody whois already, you know, I'm just
always have my consultant haton.
I was like, Hmm, here are a fewthings that we could do
differently next time I actuallysent it to the guy.
But that's because I reallyliked him as a sales person.
I think he did a fantastic job,but because he did such a good
job, I was expecting something alittle bit different as we were
(30:52):
moving into the onboarding, so ahundred percent with that.
I love that advice.
And what about companies thatare just looking now to build a
CX strategy?
I think there are a lot ofcompanies that know how
important this is.
They kind of get it, but it mayfeel like a big undertaking.
(31:15):
How would you advise a companythat's looking to build, you
know, their first strategy?
Stuart Gilchriest (31:20):
Yeah, I think the key is to start small.
It can seem very daunting andoverwhelming when you're first
going into a program like this,that you have to be able to
survey every single customer andyou have to know everything that
everybody's thinking at everysingle minute.
And it's just not the case.
I think starting small focusingon key partners within the
(31:46):
business who do buy into this,working with them and helping
them to succeed is really thekey to getting started.
Obviously you need thatexecutive buy in as well.
Otherwise it's very hard to getoff the ground.
But if you're starting up alistening program to understand
what your customers think, nomatter the environment, that in
(32:07):
itself will lead to a lot ofrewards further down the line.
Once you have those commentsthat really speak in the
customer's voice about what isgood and what is bad about your
experience, you've then takenthe perhaps internal politics
out of it a little bit.
It's no longer you saying to aleader, Hey, we need to change
(32:28):
this.
The customer is a real guidinglight in that because there's
actually a third party thatsays, you know what?
You're not as good as you thinkyou are in this area.
And I love it when you do thisfor me, but you need to do it
more often.
And then those, you know, it'sreally important not to
underestimate the power, thatthe customer's words, whether
it's in a survey, whether it'sin videos, you can get very
(32:50):
creative with it.
Those words that they have areso powerful that they can
actually drive change mucheasier than you can in a.
Meeting room or on a conferencecall, trying to get people to
see the light, if that makessense.
Celebrating those small winswhen you get them, I think is
also super important, especiallyearly on and demonstrating the
(33:13):
impact that you're havingideally through some ROI work is
also super important.
Again, we talk about ROI and itsounds very complicated.
It's really not as complicatedas it sounds.
You can get to some very basicmodels very, very quickly, but
if you can show the impact thatyou have on the business on a
very small project with onesmall team, then that becomes
(33:37):
your mandate to scale that andhave similar impacts all over
the business.
And of course, what you thentend to find is that those
initial skeptics who weren'tquite bought in, when they start
seeing some of their peersgetting success, because you've
worked with them and you've madethem look good, essentially,
then you start to see themcoming to you, asking for a
(33:59):
little bit of what you're doing.
So that momentum is so, soimportant and then, you know,
getting those small wins,celebrating them, you'll be able
to naturally expand your programpretty quickly.
But, you know, as I say, startsmall, start with the voice of
the customer and then pushthings forward from there.
As you start to build thatmomentum, it'll quickly become
(34:22):
one of those things that you'llfind that you need to start
saying no to people, but saying,yes, we'll come to that.
But give me a couple of monthsbecause we're just inundated
right now.
So, that's when you know thatyou, I think you've cracked it
as the CX team, when people arecoming to you with requests for
either insights or data or helpwith some of the initiatives
that they're looking to get offthe ground.
Rhoan Morgan (34:43):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I think it sounds likescaling wisely.
Not trying to conquereverything, the entire customer
experience opportunity, butfinding a way to do that in a
very reasonable and manageableway, especially if you still
(35:04):
need to convince some folks.
So, you know, doing those proofsof concepts where you can then
really demonstrate ROI.
And again, I agree with you, youtalked about it earlier, you
know, real data, real insights,building credibility, and then
you will have people bangingdown your door saying, can we be
next?
Can we be next?
(35:24):
And that's gotta be an excitingmoment where you know that
you're making real impact and,you look forward to heading to
work every day, making thosechanges.
Stuart Gilchriest (35:38):
Yeah and you'll come across some skeptics
for sure who will be thinking,if not saying, why do we need
this?
We all understand what thecustomer thinks.
We all know what they need.
We just need to focus ondelivering it rather than
anything else.
But you know, even something assimple as car rental, what I've
found is that if you ask 10different people, what is the
(35:59):
experience that we're trying tocreate for customers?
If you haven't done the work toreally outline a strategy, if
you haven't done the work toreally articulate how you want
customers to feel when they'vebeen going through your
experience, even something thateverybody has a base
understanding of in car rental,you ask 10 people what they
think you'll get 10 differentanswers.
(36:19):
And people aren't generallyaligned as aligned as they think
they are.
And I think that that can be anopportunity with those skeptics
if you handle it in the rightway, just to prove that just
because I see the world throughmy own eyes and I think that our
experience is a certain way,that doesn't mean that that's
necessarily the case when youput it up against other people's
(36:39):
experiences.
And then you multiply that bythe number of customers you
have.
And you get to realize that it'sa lot more complicated perhaps
than people really understand.
And that, you know, a lot of theCX work that you're doing is
about aligning people, bringingthem together and giving them a
central, one version of truthview of the customer, because
(37:02):
there's a lot of differentversions of the truth out there.
And sometimes it's your role tobreak that down a little bit and
actually say, this is thecustomer story.
This is what they love.
This is what they hate.
And really this is what they'rebuying from us.
This is the need that they'retrying to fill when they buy
from us.
So you'd be amazed at the broadranges of responses you'll get
(37:23):
when you ask those questions.
Rhoan Morgan (37:25):
Well, I mean, we actually had a client, this was
several years ago and we didhelp them with this, but we
asked them for their personas.
And I think we got like 40different documents.
And they had all been created Ithink only by, I feel like it
was somebody in operations.
(37:46):
It wasn't anybody in marketing.
They were all like five yearsold.
I mean, it was just amazing tome when we saw this and we just
thought, how do you know this isreal anymore?
How are you, able to sort ofquantify this?
How were they developed and thatsort of thing.
I think you work in that spacequite a lot.
(38:06):
And it's important to be able toshare that and really
illuminate, I think, for theentire organization, the voice
of the customer, as you weretalking about.
Stuart Gilchriest (38:15):
Of course, the risk there is that you try
and be all things to all people.
If you've got 40 personas, thenyou've got a lot of people
marching in different directionsand what your customer feels is
just a confused, muddled messagethat doesn't actually mean that
much to them, it doesn'tresonate.
And then really what they'regoing to boil their decision
making down to is price.
And of course, you know, theexperience has to help you
(38:38):
differentiate so that peoplearen't just comparing you
against your competitors basedon price, but what value they're
getting from what they'rebuying.
So, yeah, I've seen that a lot.
Rhoan Morgan (38:47):
Yep.
Well, and you know, I thinkwe're seeing it more and more,
experience is the keydifferentiator and it is what
will win more business.
And I think that's actually oneof the big arguments for rolling
out a more sophisticated CXprogram throughout a business
and that's, that's been shownagain and again.
(39:09):
I think we're just starting tosee, probably because of more
technology and analyticscapabilities, the data that
supports that.
So it's no longer a hunch.
Right?
Stuart Gilchriest (39:18):
Definitely couldn't agree more.
Rhoan Morgan (39:21):
This has just been a fantastic conversation.
I really appreciate it.
And I think that our listenersare gonna just gain so much from
hearing your thinking and theadvice and the recommendations
that you've made.
I really thank you for joiningus.
Now, one of the things that wedo with all of our guests, at
least for during this year, wejust started it, is sort of our
(39:42):
Lightning Round.
So we're going to take youthrough this segment, which is
just five quick questions.
Some of them might be more onthe personal side and others
definitely on the professionalside, but it gives us a little
opportunity to learn more aboutyou.
Stuart Gilchriest (39:57):
Sounds like fun.
Rhoan Morgan (39:58):
Cool.
So let's start with somethingmore personal.
What is one fun fact about youthat listeners might be
surprised to know?
Stuart Gilchriest (40:07):
Well, I've been in the US for a few years
now and I never intended to livehere.
I actually came, as youmentioned in the intro, to do my
MBA and met my wife in gradschool and never looked back.
Rhoan Morgan (40:19):
I love it.
And you've been on the Eastcoast, as you said, now you're
in the sunnier region, which Ican't blame you at all.
That's exciting.
And I can understand the drawfor sure.
And that's your wife I'mactually referring to more than
anything else.
Can you tell us, what is yourcurrent, you know, maybe a
(40:42):
couple of go to resources formarketing and customer
experience news and insightsthat you really refer to on a
regular basis that you think ourlisteners could enjoy?
Stuart Gilchriest (40:51):
Yeah, for sure.
I'm really into the humanbehavior side of CX at the
moment.
Almost that kind of amateurpsychologist in me.
It really helps with thatunderstanding why customers make
decisions in those very kind ofdeep levels and unlocking some
of those things, which arehidden in our brains.
And, my countrymen, Colin Shawat Beyond Philosophy is
(41:12):
actually, you know, I just pourover all of their work from
their articles and insights.
They just do a lot of things.
And they've really, yeah, that'skinda my go to when it comes to
thinking about how we may beable to change how our customers
make decisions, how we may beable to learn about the more.
And really just kind ofunderstand how the brains work.
(41:32):
I think it's a very underratedpart of CX at the moment.
Rhoan Morgan (41:37):
I wonder if the folks that go from marketing
into CX are the ones that aremore thinking about human
behavior and learning about thatand are those amateur
psychologists, which I canrelate to quite a lot.
Stuart Gilchriest (41:49):
Probably there's something in that I
think.
Rhoan Morgan (41:52):
Yeah.
So what is one piece of advicethat you would give to somebody
starting out in customerexperience who wants to become a
future leader in the space?
Stuart Gilchriest (42:06):
Yeah, I think it's something that I tell
everyone who's new to our teamand have done for a few years is
wear comfortable shoes, right?
This was a pre-COVID bit ofadvice.
So I probably need to adjust itslightly, but, you know, getting
your face and name known aroundthe office, whether it's
physically or now a little bitmore virtually, it is so, so
(42:30):
important.
It's especially important incustomer experience because
relationships help you getthings done.
But even in this COVID world,right, whether it's getting on
zoom calls, understanding whothe people are that you're
working with and how you canmake them look good,
particularly if they're seniorleaders can really help you
excel and also get their buy inand support when you're trying
(42:54):
to get your ideas pushedthrough.
So that would be my one piece ofadvice, whether it's on Zoom or
in person, wear comfortableshoes.
Rhoan Morgan (43:03):
Love it and sort of related if you could give
your younger self one piece ofadvice, what would that be?
Stuart Gilchriest (43:12):
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think probably just neversettle with just okay.
Whether it's in your personallife, your professional life.
If you aren't happy withsomething, don't be afraid to
take the leap.
It can feel daunting, but youknow, it almost always works out
in the end.
And for me personally, both inmy personal and career, if I
(43:36):
hadn't taken that leap and Ijust settled for, okay, then I
wouldn't be where I am today.
So I think that's something Iwish I'd known a little bit
earlier in life for sure.
Rhoan Morgan (43:46):
Oh, I can appreciate that.
Absolutely.
Alright.
Last question.
What are maybe the top threemarketing tools that you cannot
live without?
CX, marketing, whichever.
Stuart Gilchriest (43:58):
Yup.
Yeah, so I think they're fairlysimple.
I think the first is obviously agood survey platform.
Clearly without that voice ofcustomer, you're really gonna
struggle.
So that's one key thing that Idefinitely can't live without.
I'm a big fan of datavisualization, and sharing some
(44:19):
of those, insights.
We use Tableau a lot at Hertz.
I've used it in otherorganizations.
And that's just great forturning really complicated data
into really simple themes andideas.
And then the last one isactually probably the simplest
one that we always, and that'sPowerPoint.
I think that's just a reallyunderrated tool.
And sometimes a really misusedtool and maybe it's the internal
(44:42):
consultant in me, I don't know,but I've seen some PowerPoint
done really well.
And you can convey really clearideas through great slide design
on PowerPoint.
And then frankly you can confusepeople more than when they
started reading it, if you don'tget it right.
So that's something that I use alot and I'm constantly thinking
(45:03):
about how I can improve and inmy PowerPoint skills in
particular.
Rhoan Morgan (45:07):
I think that's fantastic.
I love it.
I love it.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to be with us.
Thank you so much for joiningthe show.
I am positive we're going tohave a lot of great, I think
feedback and that our listenersare gonna get a lot out of this.
So one last thing before we dogo, what is the best way for
(45:28):
listeners to reach out to you ifthey have any questions?
Stuart Gilchriest (45:32):
LinkedIn is the best place to connect.
I'm always keen to connect withfellow customer experience
professionals and really justexpand my network even beyond
that.
So, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn,Stuart Gilchriest.
I'll probably be in the shownotes, so that's probably the
easiest way to look me up.
I have one of those names, whichis a little bit hard to spell,
(45:53):
so that's probably the easiestway for people to find me.
Rhoan Morgan (45:56):
We will definitely have it in the show notes.
Absolutely.
I really look forward toconnecting with you again in the
future.
Stuart Gilchriest (46:02):
Thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure.
Rhoan Morgan (46:03):
A big thank you to our listeners for tuning into
Revenue Rebels.
Remember, you can get our shownotes, links, and other content
related to today's topic atdemandlab.com/revenuerebels.
While you're there, let us knowif there's a leader you want to
hear from or a topic you'd liketo hear more about on this show.
(46:25):
I'm your host, Rhoan Morgan.
And you can find me on Twitterat@rhoanmorgan, it's R-H-O-A-N
Morgan.
And of course, look us up onLinkedIn.
Look up DemandLab or search, orR-H-O-A-N Morgan.
And finally, only if you thinkwe've earned it, please head
over to Apple Podcast, Spotifyor wherever you're listening to
us right now and subscribe, rateand review the show until next
(46:50):
time.
Rebels.
Thank you.
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