April 11, 2023 • 51 mins
Welcome to the Crown & Anchor, Greyhounds! In this episode Christian and Brett remember Grant Wahl's legacy in a conversation with his brother, Eric Wahl.
The fourth episode of Ted Lasso's third season is dedicated to sports journalist Grant Wahl, who died suddenly and unexpectedly while covering the 2022 Men's World Cup in Qatar, and his tragic passing left the soccer community in the United States in a state of shock and sadness. In this conversation, Grant's brother Eric shares some personal anecdotes about their relationship, discusses Grant's legacy in the world of soccer journalism, explains what it means to him to have an episode of the show dedicated to his brother, and shares about the incredible outpouring of support he and Grant's wife, Dr. Celine Gounder, have received since Grant's untimely death.
Grant was a massive fan of Ted Lasso, and it's safe to say that Jason Sudeikis and Brendan Hunt were fans of his as well. After learning of Grant's passing, the creators of the show decided to dedicate an episode of the third season to his memory and legacy.
At the end of the episode, we've also included some closing comments from sports journalist Julie Stewart-Binks, who was a longtime friend and former colleague of Grant's. We had a full conversation with Julie about Ted Lasso and her work, which we'll release in the coming weeks. But we wanted to include her comments about Grant in this episode.
And finally, let this serve as your official spoiler alert. If you have not yet watched Season 3, Episode 4 of Ted Lasso, you might wanna pause this episode now and catch up. We promise we’ll be here waiting when y’all come back.
More extensive show notes can be found on our website: http://www.tedlassopod.com/grant-wahl-ted-lasso-eric-wahl
Richmond Til We Die is an episode-by-episode conversation about the Apple TV+ show Ted Lasso, where we explore the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and then feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. When you're here, you're a greyhound.
The fourth episode of Ted Lasso's third season is dedicated to sports journalist Grant Wahl, who died suddenly and unexpectedly while covering the 2022 Men's World Cup in Qatar, and his tragic passing left the soccer community in the United States in a state of shock and sadness. In this conversation, Grant's brother Eric shares some personal anecdotes about their relationship, discusses Grant's legacy in the world of soccer journalism, explains what it means to him to have an episode of the show dedicated to his brother, and shares about the incredible outpouring of support he and Grant's wife, Dr. Celine Gounder, have received since Grant's untimely death.
Grant was a massive fan of Ted Lasso, and it's safe to say that Jason Sudeikis and Brendan Hunt were fans of his as well. After learning of Grant's passing, the creators of the show decided to dedicate an episode of the third season to his memory and legacy.
At the end of the episode, we've also included some closing comments from sports journalist Julie Stewart-Binks, who was a longtime friend and former colleague of Grant's. We had a full conversation with Julie about Ted Lasso and her work, which we'll release in the coming weeks. But we wanted to include her comments about Grant in this episode.
And finally, let this serve as your official spoiler alert. If you have not yet watched Season 3, Episode 4 of Ted Lasso, you might wanna pause this episode now and catch up. We promise we’ll be here waiting when y’all come back.
More extensive show notes can be found on our website: http://www.tedlassopod.com/grant-wahl-ted-lasso-eric-wahl
Richmond Til We Die is an episode-by-episode conversation about the Apple TV+ show Ted Lasso, where we explore the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and then feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. When you're here, you're a greyhound.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Welcome to the Crown and Anchor Greyhounds. This is Richmond Till We Die conversation
about the Apple TV Plus show tedLasso. We explore the characters, their
relationships to each other, how they'reable to make us laugh until we can
hardly breathe one moment and then feelwith the deepest parts of our hearts the
next. I'm Christian and I havea different kind of intro today because we
(00:37):
have a different kind of conversation foryou. You may have noticed at the
end of ted Lasso season three,episode four, titled a Big Week,
that the episode was dedicated in memoryof Grant Wall and that Coach Beard was
reading Wall's book The Beckham Experiment duringthe episode. Sports fans in the United
States will recognize the name as oneof the most prominent sports journalists of the
(01:00):
last twenty years, and arguably themost important American soccer journalist to date.
Wall wrote about college basketball and soccerfor Sports Illustrated, including cover stories about
David Beckham's decision to play for MLS, Mario Chalmers, and his game winning
shot for the Kansas Jayhawks in thechampionship game of the two thousand and eight
NCUBA tournament and the two thousand andtwo story about a high school senior from
(01:23):
Akron, Ohio named Lebron James.Those who enjoyed Wall's writings, and even
more so those who knew him personally, were stunned and saddened to hear that
he collapsed suddenly on December tenth,twenty twenty two, while in his press
box seat at the Lusiale Iconic Stadiumand Cutter, where he was covering the
World Cup quarterfinal match between Argentina andthe Netherlands. Local paramedics responded and treated
(01:47):
him for thirty minutes, including CPR, before Wall was transported to Hammad General
Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Wall's death was a shock to everyone,
not just because people enjoyed his writingso much, but because he was
an advocate for many worthy causes andwas always willing to ask people in power
difficult questions. Today, we're gratefulto visit with Eric Wall, Grant's brother,
(02:09):
about Grant's life and legacy, andfollowing our conversation with Eric, we
will here briefly from soccer journalist JulieStewart Binks about her appreciation for Grant.
We'll publish the entirety of our fullconversation with her in the coming weeks,
but I wanted to include this particularsection with our episode today. We appreciate
(02:30):
both Eric and Julie taking some timeout to share with us why Grant was
such a special person and why heis going to be missed so much by
those who knew him most. Andso with that, Greyhounds please give a
warm welcome to Eric Wall. Thankyou guys. It's my it's my distinct
honor to be here. I don'tthink I can compare to the hurricane that
(02:53):
I listened to on the plane lastnight and Jimmy Fire, I'll give him
the best shot. Well, we'veshared with our audience some of Grant's resume,
and they can go online and seetons of stuff that he's written,
many accolades that he's won in manyways in which people have honored him since
(03:13):
his death. But you had thatpersonal relationship with him, So can you
explain in your own words who Grantwas as a brother? Yeah, and
thanks for asking. The first thingI think of is when we had Grant's
memorial in December in New York andSelene that sleeing down her Grant's wife spoke
(03:38):
first and said, sometimes we foundit hard to share Grant with the rest
of the world. And that reallyhit home with me because it's so easy
for me, having grown up withhim, to think of him as just
this dork that was in the housewith me growing up. And I think
he would say that's fair. Butas we got older and kind of developed
(04:00):
our own sort of avenues of interests, we kind of developed an interest in
each other that grew out of that. Brothers being brothers, I think gay
or straight tend to act in verysimilar ways with each other, and there
was a lot of like, Ididn't break his nose, he fell,
you know that exactly exactly, andwe grew to we appreciate each other as
(04:28):
as adult men. And so forme, Grant was my best friend,
my confidante, my defender, mysounding board, and I played that role
for him too. We were onthe phone or texting just about every other
day, and I think just talkingto other people who have experienced this kind
(04:51):
of unexpected loss has been a benefitkind of as I come to terms with
things and accept things m and Iknow that Grant would be kicking my butt
a lot of times I kind ofhave him downloaded into my into my brain
already anyhow, And anytime I'm feelingsorry for myself or thinking I can't do
(05:15):
something, I think he probably occupiesa very coaches ted lassoish place in my
brain to appreciate that. Yeah,I like that quote that you shared from
Grant's wife, because I didn't knowthat they were married for a long time.
I had started to hear her onpodcasts early in the Kelvit pandemic.
She was one of those like supersuper super frontline physicians, and she was
(05:40):
also very generous with her time andenergy because those doctors and medical professionals,
like they were working all the timeand it was super dangerous and it was
very scary, and you know,she would come on and quite calmly explain
to the world what was going onand what her experiences were. And so
I do think that for them eachindividually and then as a couple, you
(06:04):
know, sharing each other with theworld and in the ways that they did,
like we are all better off forthat. And so I would say
also to her, you know,like thank you for all that she has
done for you. And she's oneof the most amazing people I've dot,
Yeah, she is incredible, andif people have an opportunity to go and
(06:26):
find things that she's written or podcastthat she's done, like, I wholly
recommend continuing to do that, eventhough the time isn't as scary. Thank
goodness, you are a soccer fan. You enjoy the game. Do you
and Grant have any soccer memories togetherapart from his professional experiences? And you
(06:48):
know, thank you. This issomething that the people have asked me before,
Like, and I sort of dividedbetween childhood and an adulthood because growing
up where we did when we didin the seventies and eighties, UM in
Shying Mission, Kansas, UM,there was soccer practice, but most of
(07:09):
the schools hadn't fully set up soccerteams yet that that would change by the
time Grant was in high school.So my main memories are of him playing
soccer as a really little runt kindof running around UM. And I remember
him UM not fully understanding that whenwhen you break for the orange slices in
the mouth to look like a mouseguard, you don't need to like keep
(07:31):
that in your mouth when you goback to play. I just had this
memory of him like very confusedly playingthe second half with the orange slice still
in his mouth, and then afterthe game, after the game was done,
on the coach and several concerned parentstold him, like, you can
spit that out in it Althood though, UM, I have lots of great
(07:55):
soccer memories, but I think myfirst great one I my husband and I
had had moved to Seattle, andit was the MLS Championship game hosted here
in Seattle. UM, I'm sorry, I was trying to remember, Like,
it wasn't Women Field, then,it wasn't Centraling Field, it was
whatever it was before that, andand it was it was RSL and LA
(08:20):
Galaxy and it was freezing outside.I'd never brewed new to the soccer game.
It was so freezing and um,and we got tickets and Grant was
reporting, um and following the galaxyand um, we were able to walk
down to the pitch and shake handswith him. Um. And you know,
(08:41):
of course David Beckham was on thefield. That was my first David
Beckham siting And UM, I wasjust kind of enthralled all of that,
like a lot of people were.And UM, just how proud I felt
of my brother. This is dorkwith the orange slice in his face.
He didn't understand and and here heis now doing this. And then probably
the most exciting soccer memory I hadwith Grant came several years later when the
(09:07):
Women's World Cup final was held inVancouver, which rust was a simple drive
up north, and we stayed withGrant in his hotel room and men's or
women's game, that was the mostexciting soccer match I've ever seen in my
life. They were they were playingagainst Japan, who, you know,
bless them. They gave everything theyhad and they got their clocks cleaned and
(09:31):
they were gracious and amazing and bowedto the fans. I have never,
i probably never will again see amatch in which there was just like,
oh, the game has started.Boom, there's a goal. Did you
see that? Boom, there's anothergoal? And I thought, like am
I imagining this? And it wasjust like one of those incredible moments that
(09:52):
you usually just see on television andI will never forget it. And I
remember after the game people were justsort of like in this days of like
a mix of jubilation and what thehell did I just see? And that
really touched something in my heart.That reminded me of like all the best
things you think of about sports whenyou're watching on television as a kid,
(10:13):
and and all those things seemed sofar away sometimes, especially if you're like
a in a small place or aroyal place. It made me think of
like the American hockey team winning againstthe USSR in nineteen eighty and I remember
like we were planet in front ofour televisions and just losing our minds to
that. And what was so importantabout that particular Women's World Cup when for
(10:37):
me was that our mom had longbeen a huge women's sports fans, particularly
the US women's national team. Shewas so proud of Grant covering this.
But like a lot of Americans,we love it when you're winning. And
I think that in addition to likethe earlier you know, the Brandy Chastain
(10:58):
cover when day one, and Ithink about like what that probably did for
Sports Brass sales, and but tothis day, like so many people,
you say Brandy chest In and theycan conjure that that Sports Illustrated cover and
Grant was a touchstone for each ofthese events, not just for us,
but for a lot of other people. And so I thought it would be
(11:20):
difficult watching soccer matches again after Grant'sdeath, and I think it was bitter
sweet watching this year's men's World Cupfinal, but I know Grant would have
been satisfied with the result. Andnow when I watched like Saturdays, I'm
up. Really, I've got picturein picture. I'm like trying to watch
(11:43):
as many different things as I can. I sometimes have divided loyalties, as
you can see. I live inSeattle, where there's an amazing soccer club.
I'm from Kansas City, where Iwould still argue there's an amazing soccer
club despite the current situation, andI just feel proud. I feel like
Grant's really the person who got methe most into this. It was a
(12:03):
it was a sport that we hadin common, and I think I'll continue
to feel that way. I hopeour listeners go back and check out that
World Cup match that you were referencing. It was twenty fifteen, the US
versus Japan. Carly Lloyd was thecaptain at that point for the US women's
national team. I think she scoredlike two goals in the first five minutes,
(12:26):
and then she had at trick bythe sixteenth minute. And that third
goal was from almost midfield. Andthat was a match that I was watching
in a packed sports bar in Portland, sorry, right before right before Timbers
match, and I remember like thinkingat that time the same thing that you
(12:46):
were, like, this is oneof the most electric things that I've ever
seen, because everybody was so happyand it was this kind of singular feat
of athletic greatness. So people shoulddefinitely go, you're watching something historic.
And I love what I mean.Good play is always good for the game
(13:07):
in general. But I think wehave such a formidable group of women's players
in this country to be proud ofon and off the field, and they're
amazing people in general. And Ilook at what so many of them do
publicly and come forward and share theirstories if there's difficulty, and stand up
(13:31):
for one another and advocate for eachother in fairness and play, and I
think so much of this, tome represents role models for girls as well
as boys. I love it anytimeI see like a little kid, a
boy with a like a women's nationalteam jersey on or something like that,
(13:52):
I'm like, right on, akid, That's what I like to see.
Yeah, well, you mentioned Grant'srole in reporting so many of these
iconics sort of touchstone events in thegame in the US over the last couple
of decades, And for me thatwas really cemented as I really came I
played soccer growing up, but Ididn't really become a watcher or a fan
(14:13):
of watching soccer until around the twentyten World the men's twenty ten World Cup,
and his online presence was one ofthe things that really got me excited
about the sports. Like he wasprobably one of the first half a dozen
journalists slash media members that I followedthat was specifically, you know, talking
about the men's national team running aboutthe game in the States, and I
(14:35):
was hooked. And so based onthat, Like, if someone's going to
go and read one or two storiesby Grant Wall right now, what are
your some of your favorites? Ohthat's dirty cool. I'll answer it this
way because because Grant was represented ona number of different formats, and for
(14:56):
me, I would I would saywith his most recent endeavor, his sub
stack endeavor, and he was reallyproud of it for good reason and not
to court controversy, but he dida piece about the Arena family and I
know within the soccer community, alot of people know, but outside the
soccer community, a lot of peoplemay not know the types of things that
(15:18):
this family has had to endure.And the piece was written about the death
of one of their sons, ofGeo's brother, and what that was like
for a family so enmeshed in thesoccer world, and how they had to
adjust to deal with what was happeningto their son that they were watching die
(15:45):
and still interact with the world asit as it continues to go. And
Grant was really impressed by the family, really touched by their openness, and
he and I talked a lot ofout that as he was working on it.
And so with these more recent developments, I really feel for Geo.
(16:07):
I mean there there there's probably versionsof fault on all sides. I thought
a lot about how would Grant reactthis. He definitely would react to the
pile on before we had all theinformation, and there was a lot of
speculation one way or the other,and it wasn't it wasn't necessarily healthy speculation.
(16:30):
Lots of us can identify with thefeeling of wanting to protect your child,
and a lot of this came aboutbecause of her egos and things like
this that were within a really Ithink problematically we now know enmeshed dysfunctional family
(16:52):
that is US soccer. Purely myopinion, but the more I learn about
like how it is, I thinkI understand it more. You know,
here's this kid who's a phenomenal playerI think is going to become an even
more phenomenal player, and he isacknowledged like that he could have done better.
(17:18):
I think he has so much moreto give and to show the men's
national team, and I just reallyhope he's given that chance and he's just
allowed to be the player he hasgrowing up. Use the term dysfunctional to
describe US soccer. We sometimes havea hard time on this podcast coming up
with descriptors for US soccer and evenmore SOPHIFA, like we can't like well
(17:42):
figuring out the strong language to explainthings to some of our listeners who just
aren't familiar with the soccer world.One of the things that Grant was known
for was asking tough questions about theissues of dysfunction, both in US Soccer
and FIFA. There's some risk inthat because it's like it's a small community
(18:03):
and so you could get pushed outor frozen out by just a couple of
people, and then that could reallylimit your access. But he was still
willing to ask those questions. Andone of the big issues that was swirling
around this past World Cup and Cutterwas out of human rights and legitimate questions
as to how LGBTQ plus fans weregoing to be treated when they attended if
(18:29):
they attended this tournament. And oneof the things that granted while he was
there, he wore made a pointof wearing a rainbow soccer shirt soccer ball
with a rainbow around it to aUS match and he ended up being detained,
like there was a freedom of speechDid anti freedom of speech detainment that
happened there? Did he talk toyou about wearing that shirt before he did
(18:53):
it? And then what was kindof some of your reaction once you saw
how it was playing. Yes,we talked about it. In fact,
we talked about it quite a bit. Before he went to Katar, he
told me that he had a selectionof rainbow shirts, and honestly, my
first thought was, oh, no, he like, I've lived in the
(19:14):
Middle East. I've lived and workedin the Middle East, and he knew
that. And I worried that itwould it would be buying trouble. And
one thing that I've always known aboutGrant and a lot of people who've worked
with Grant and now that it wasalways important for him to not be the
story himself, and this was abit of a pivot for him. But
he also knew how important soccer wasin our family and to me and how
(19:41):
I had grown up. Seventies andages were not a great time to be
finding out you were a gay kidin Kansas, and he saw a lot
of the things that happened to me. And he also knew my living in
and love of so many things aboutthe Middle East. And I talked to
him about human rights in the MiddleEast in relation to lgbt QAI plus people
(20:07):
because they exist, and I thinkat the time he thought it was just
a way to show support. Ithink he was definitely dubious about the declaration
from FIFA and the Cutter World CupCommittee that displays like that would be allowed,
(20:30):
And at first I asked him notto wear the shirt. I didn't
think it was a good idea basedon my own experiences in the Middle East.
But we talked about it quite abit and He explained that he felt
this was kind of like a oncein a lifetime opportunity to bring attention to
the fact that gay people exist everywhere, and that he wanted to show that
(20:52):
he was supportive of that, andso he did what he did. And
when we first saw the picture thathe posted, the selfie that he posted
had some people asked me if Ithought this was a stunt, and I
could see where they were coming from. But by and large the people who
are asking that didn't know Grant theway that I did, And I think
(21:15):
maybe fifty percent expected that he wouldn'tjust be waved into the stadium, but
he looked at it as a asa moment, an opportunity to show kind
of this sad situation. I guesshe definitely was no fan of the way
that Cutter or Russia secured their WorldCup bids. I have no problem saying
(21:41):
that I think FIFA up rights likea crime family. That's my personal opinion.
But I think that people can dothe research and find out he was
no fan of said Bladder, andI don't think in the end he was
a big fan of Infantino either.To me, FIFA got absolutely played.
I could her. Um, theygot what they wanted. But at the
(22:03):
same time, Grant and writers anotherjournalists like him were able to show a
little bit more of how these internalworkings are corroded. Um and UM.
I would love to be a floodon the wall, like in the in
the Budweiser boardroom, uh, tosee what happened behind the scenes when all
(22:26):
of a sudden they were able tosell beer in the country where the World
Cup was being a that was awhole mess. And so when the T
shirt stuff kind of blew up,Grant started getting death threats and um and
he would be the first treatment.Like in his line of work. You
(22:47):
know, the Internet is full ofcolorful people, but these were more pointed.
A lot of them were coming fromlike Qatari bought accounts. And honestly,
our family was a little bit pastthe point of being worried about Grant,
because Grant was going to do Grantwherever he was, so we just
said be careful, and in successivephone calls with him, he told me
(23:11):
he was getting other other death threats. And while he had been doing some
online interview with someone in this kindof house that he and some other journalists
had rented together. During the WorldCup, some strange man walked into the
house and just like I wasn't ina seeming hurry, looked around, and
(23:33):
Grant was trying to stay with theinterview. He was doing well, like
giving side eye to this strange person. And then the guy just like slowly
walked out of the house and left. I said, well, Grant,
didn't that concern us? The worldcourse, that concerned me. And at
first he thought that it was somebodywho had just walked into the wrong house.
He said that a number of themlike looked similar. But I so
(23:53):
I had that in my mind andthe descriptions of some of the death threats
he was getting when and he died, and I landed on a conclusion that
I wish i'd kept myself. Iposted a video online. I didn't have
very many people followed me, andit was honestly mostly people I knew or
knew of, because with the informationI had, I thought it would not
(24:15):
have surprised me if something shady hadhappened. And then I dealt with a
lot of things on the phone,family members back and forth, and and
then I thought, you know,I needed to let that video. I
just wasn't. It didn't sit rightwith me, and so I went back
to do it, but my husbandsaid, it's everywhere, and I didn't
(24:37):
really understand then what he meant byeverywhere. But some some news outlets posted
it without my permission, and Igot a real media education really quick,
and I'm glad I didn't blame anyonedirectly, thank goodness. But then I
started getting my own death threats anddidn't feels super comfortable, and lots of
(25:02):
weird stuff happened. So between thetime that Grant passed away and the time
that we had his initial his initialautopsy findings, that was the worst because
we didn't know what had happened,and we couldn't say anything definitively. Lots
of people were asking, and Ifelt a huge amount of guilt. I
(25:23):
was going through the beginnings of adivorce here and Grant was concerned about me,
and he had offered to actually leavethe World Cup and come stay with
me, and so I was feelingguilt like I should have told him to
leave and come here. But wenow know that where he was on the
globe wouldn't have mattered. He hadthis condition that we didn't know about that
(25:44):
he didn't know about, and thatwas the amazing health of the New York
Medical Examiner's Office. We're learning alot about genetics and genetic testing. He
had this very unusual, little studiedgenetic ablunality. I found out that I
had it as well, and we'retracing through our family to find out the
direct line of it, and it'sit's absolutely fascinating, but doctors don't know
(26:07):
to look for it, and soit slean in particular. We met with
the genesis when we were in Houston. Are working with some organizations to make
this more widely known and encourage peopleto get tested. Because of a sad
sort of way, Grant's death effectivelysaved my life. He was walking around
(26:29):
with this time bomb in him unaware, and had we known, we would
have known how to treat it.So I'm getting treatment, but it's just
an odd kind of mental space tobe in getting treatment because of what happened
to Grant. And I have theT shirt. I have the T shirt
now. Selen gave me the Tshirt and the hat that he was wearing,
and I'm not sure what to dowith him yet. I thought about
(26:52):
framing it or or donating it toan organization, but it's it's nice to
have that piece of him here.I think that the all things happen for
a reason. Line can be prettyhurtful to people, and just like not
how things work out. I dobelieve that from out of our hurt or
pain or trauma, you know,good things can come out of that as
(27:18):
it gets processed. And so itis encouraging to hear you know that hopefully
your health outlook can be more promisingnow and hopefully some more research and advocacy
and awareness can be made about thiscondition. And there are a lot of
opportunities now to tell stories that areimportant and to highlight causes that are important.
(27:42):
Because Grant was such a great writeracross different sports. Like we're talking
about him as a soccer writer,but you know, you just got back
from the Final Four where he wasinducted into the National Basketball Writers Hall of
Fame, and he wrote about anumber of different sports. What has stood
out to you amongst the outpouring ofsupport that you and the rest of the
(28:07):
family have received, kind of likesince the memorial and you've maybe had more
more time and capacity to process someof that. The number one thing that
I didn't expect since I've been kindof slagging off on Twitter is the number
of incredibly kind people on Twitter.I mean, for every sort of like
(28:32):
snarky, root or mean comment Ihad, in order of magnitude, more
supportive comments and from people like sharingtheir their own issues. Always just sounds
me that like someone could say somethingmaybe almost TMI online and you'll you'll get
your requisite nut jobs, but alsoa lot of very sincere people. And
(28:55):
I can't believe I'm saying this,but I took a lot of comfort in
in Twitter in those days just becauseof the number of people who were responding
so nicely and sincerely because Grant haddone something of value for them. Also
in terms of like team and clubresponses, I would be remiss if I
(29:18):
didn't say probably the most important andtouching went to me came from the Sporting
Kansas City organization invited me to comeout for their home opener, and what
an incredible organization, but also thefact that it's my our hometown. I
was given an itinerator, which reallyhelps people with high anxiety like I have,
(29:38):
so I felt like, Okay,I know what's going to happen on
all these bullet points. But Iwasn't prepared for was walking out on the
pitch to they were inducting Grant intotheir local Legends initiative with a plaque and
a frame jersey. And I'm standingthere on the pitch and of this field
(30:00):
that I had only watched on television, and it's a beautiful field, and
pictures of Grant are up on thebig screen. And then in the south
stand, the supporters area, theywere chanting, we love you Grant,
and I just about lost it.But it was such an amazing moment that
the outcome of the game really didn'tmatter so much to me. But I
(30:22):
will say it was a tie,and they had thirty two shots on goals,
so that's not enough. But like, in a larger sense, my
time there in Kansas City really didfeel like coming home. I mean it
was, but strangers shook my handthis I went for a walk around my
hotel just to get some air,and this woman asked, are you are
(30:45):
you grand Wall's brother, And Isaid yes, a little warily, and
she said I would I would reallylike to give you a hug, and
Walls are not a huggy People werevery prushing about that. But I said
okay, and she gave me thishug again. She just kept hugging,
and I thought, oh, whatdo I do? Okay, fake propos
or at fake perpose, and andshe just said your home, Your home.
(31:07):
And it's that kind of extremely unselfconsciously sincere behavior that I associate with
Kansas City and in general, bothsides of the state line. We think
of it as a metro area.And it also is what I see a
lot of in the ted Lasso character. And when I first started watching the
show, all I could think ofwas he's playing Roy Williams. He's playing
(31:30):
coach Roy from from the Jayhawks andthen North Carolina, and like the shape
of his mouth and the sound ofhis voice, and it was uncanny to
me, and I don't I don'tknow Jason, and I don't know if
that's what he was modeling the characteron, but I felt it so strongly,
and there's just something about it theshow that makes me proud of where
(31:53):
I come from. It's so it'sso easy to like joke about cans and
cans, and my experience of itis a is very different relief of Kansas
City and people who lived there,regardless of their politics. They're just nice
people. They can't help themselves.So you were you are a fan of
(32:15):
Ted Lasso and um Grant enjoyed theshow as well. Which one of you
got into the show first. UmGrant got into it first, and he
told me about it frequently on thephone, and I just thought, you
know, that's great. I heardabout it, you know, in various
places, but I thought, well, it's on one of those rich people
(32:37):
streaming TV services that I'm never goingto have. So I'm glad you like
it, Grant and um and thenhe would tell me like and in season
two came out and he and hewas a super dork about Dan, the
character Danny. Umre this there's thisguy and pretty much like the only line
(32:57):
he has for several times is justlike football his life. And he would
say it as though he were Dannyand a very grant thing, and it
was it was very true in ourin our family, like growing up is
that he would seize on phrases ornames he thought were funny and he would
insert them into conversations as non sequitiesanytime he didn't like the direction the conversation
was going or things were uncomfortable soI could be like telling him, like,
(33:22):
Okay, I'm glad you think that'sso funny, but like here's this
other crazy thing that a relative didand we didn't know really where to go
with it. And he would justthere be a pause and he'd say football
his life, and then we wouldjust laugh because like that was something Grant
would do and likes. As farback as I remember, he would do
stuff like that and it was thatkind of dorky joy. I think that
(33:45):
really characterizes Grant's approach to life andto soccer and to see how it engages
people. So when I found outthat I actually had Apple TV all along
or Apple TV Plus and was Isurprised, Like how long have I been
paying for that? But it turnedout that we had it. We had
(34:05):
we had purchased it solely to watchPrehistoric Planet at about dinosaurs because my husband
is a paleptologist. I'm incredible ina second season it's coming out, and
I thought, oh, um,okay that and was I made a little
mental bookmark. I will I willhume the Grant and I will watch this
show and I one of my bigregrets is that I didn't start doing that
(34:27):
until after he passed away. Butum, and this was something that a
very kind person on Twitter mentioned andI had just watched I'd just binged the
first season and in the in thebeginning of the second because I made some
tweet like addressed to Grant saying Grant, I finally started watching Ted Lasso,
and I see him in so muchof it. I see so much of
(34:51):
his approach to things, and andit's an homage in several ways to where
we come from. And it's soclever you can miss like half the in
jokes until you watch it a secondtime. I mean, most recently,
there was like this coss Off jokeabout amos Otis, who was like a
famous based dealer for the Kansas toRoyals. I can't imagine what people in
(35:12):
the UK were thinking, like whatum, But then they went to look
him up. Um. Yeah,if they didn't get the Field of Dreams
joke, they're definitely not getting areference. Yes, And sometimes the show
is so self referential or so selfconscious about that that when he made the
joke about about the Dukes of Hazardand then felt the need to like rename
it for the UK audience something likethe Earls of inconvenience or something like that.
(35:38):
Yes, earls of risk, thosekinds of things made me feel like
Grant was in the writer's room orsomething, because that's exactly his kind of
a sense of humor, that kindof laughing at the absurdity of the world.
But so I started watching the showand feeling all the things that I
realized that I was seeing other peopletalk about long ago. And sometimes I'm
late to the party. But awoman on Twitter, very great, he
(36:00):
said, like, um, fora lot of people, the show arrives
when you need it too, andthat was very much the case for me.
It really felt like holding him Grantclose and laughing and joking around with
him. And I think Jason Tudecasis absolutely brilliant. I think it's very
easy for us in the United States, especially to think of comedy as somehow
(36:23):
a lesser endeavor than in serious drama. But I can't think of a single
comedian that I admire who isn't deeplyin touch with trauma or life experiences that
really informed the comedy and the desireto find joy and humor in the world.
And it just amazes me that thathe and Brendan and Brett and their
(36:47):
team have crafted something like almost jewellike to me. You know, I
come from a creative writing background,but in a literary sent in academic sense,
and I used to pause button alot, say wait a minute,
what did he say? What Ithink he said? Or most recently,
because I'm halfway through the fourth episode, I put it on pause, like
(37:08):
I said, just by happenstance whileCoach Feartt is holding Grant's book and I
just stared at like what which justlike setting me the mood you mentioned a
moment ago that you know, yousort of feel like Grant's personality or his
finger prints are sort of on thisshow, just based on the tone and
(37:30):
kind of how you receive it asa viewer. I think that makes a
lot of sense, though, whetheror not that's actually the case or not.
Like whenever Brendan Hunt was hosting hisWorld Cup podcast, Men's World Cup
Podcast with Rebecca Lowe, once theevents happened in Qatar and Grant passed like
they took a moment of an episodeto talk about how meaningful he was for
(37:52):
both of them, his work andjust him as a person. They had
both had the opportunity to meet him, and so it makes sense that that
sensibility would be present in the show. And it makes sense to that an
episode of this television show that isabout so many of the things that Grant
stood for would be dedicated to him. So what was your reaction when you
found out that season three, episodefour of ted Lasso would be dedicated to
(38:14):
your brother? I found out ina very strange way, um And and
Elon. I hated to give youcredit because I found it on Twitter from
a French journalist who had disclosed inFrench something that I'd sort of heard rumbles
about that a number of reviewers weregiven that the first four episodes to review,
(38:35):
and and then I was also impressedthat so many of them had had
remained tight lipped about it. UmI knew that that Grant had Brendan and
Jason on on his own podcast,um and he called me just stupid excited
about it. I mean like highdoorc levels and mutable point, like he
(38:58):
couldn't get a sentence out without goingm just like this his door laugh and
h and I knew. I knewthat he'd had time to visit them in
Richmond, and this was before Iknew knew anything about the show other than
it was on a streaming service Ithought was just for rich people, and
so it was a little abstract tome. But then I saw this,
(39:19):
uh French reviewers tweet that the episodewould be dedicated to Grant um and that
was how I found out. Andwe have French folks in our family.
Selene's mother is from France and allof her sisters speak French, and I'm
like the lone crowd trying to teachthe kids of German words just to get
(39:39):
in there. But um, thenI started like learning some other things,
and some some very nice I guessI'll say anonymous sources DMed me like with
a synopsis, and Grant would havebeen blown away. It's not something he
would have expected. I think justthe image of Coach Beard holding Grant's book
(40:05):
alone would have been a lifelong memoryfor him. And And now to see
a show that I know resonates withso many people but that it's so dear
to me, like in a verydeep way. It feels like now I
have a relationship with this show aswell, and we know that like Jason
comes from where we come from,and it's like it's like if you were
(40:29):
watching Cheers in the eighties and allof a sudden, like they wear your
hat. That's what it feels liketo me. Yeah, and I'm almost
speechless, but it just feels likeit feels like a hug. That's really
amazing. All right, man,Well, we will let you get back
to the important things of finishing thatepisode of Tedalasso, yes, and hopefully
(40:52):
getting a nap. Yeah. Wejust kind of felt like we could explain
some about Grant in our episode whenwe talk about this eventually, but it
was going to be a long timeand we wouldn't really be able to cover
at all. So we appreciate yougiving voice to that in a very personal
way. Thank you, guys.I appreciate you. And now we'll hear
(41:16):
briefly from Julie Stewart Binks, asports reporter and journalist who worked with Grant
Wall covering soccer on Fox Sports backin the early twenty tens, and who
remained a long time friend of Grantseven after they both moved on to other
professional projects. As Christian mentioned inthe intro to this episode, we had
a longer conversation with Julie that willbe publishing in the coming weeks, but
(41:36):
we wanted to include this portion ofour conversation in this episode. Julie.
Episode four of season three is dedicatedto soccer journalists Grant Wall, who passed
away while covering this most recent Men'sWorld Cup in Cutter. From your perspective,
how was Grant known within the communityof sports and specifically soccer journalists.
(42:01):
Well, I mean Grant was knownas the best, like the ultimate standard.
He was not only the standard,but he was the driving force for
so many stories, for causes forso many people that have been marginalized within
the sport or have been underrepresented.And he was just such an incredible journalist
(42:28):
and that he did his job tothe most like ethical, highest standard possible.
And as a younger journalist when Ifirst got to know him working at
Fox Sports, he was a contributoron our show Fox Soccer Daily. It
was really inspiring getting to see hiswork up close and personal and being able
to talk with him about a numberof different issues. And I was going
(42:52):
back through like my direct messages withGrant from twenty thirteen when I first met
him and we were and have MLSrights on Fox, and I remember telling
him like we were all working onbreaking the story of and I mean me,
I was kind of an outsider atthe time, but of the collective
bargaining agreement with MLS, and Iremember I looked back and I had I
(43:15):
messaged Grant before I went before Iwent public with it. I was like,
a deal is done. He waslike, go for it, and
I was like, I have thismany sources. He's like tweeted out,
I'll retweet you. And like Grantwas working on the story himself, you
know, like it was he Iyou know, in the journalism world.
(43:35):
I was like, oh, Igot it first. But Grant was like
right there to support me instantly,And there aren't people like that in this
industry a lot of the time.And he was so selfless and he was
so as we know, supportive ofa lot of younger people in the industry.
But he was also like a realperson too and kind of looking at
(44:00):
what he's done in the industry,who he was as a person. Like
going back through a lot of ourmessages, we had so many different conversations
across like so many different things.I knew I would get emotional talking about
him, but um, it's justreally tragic too. I have lost him
in the world and also obviously soccer, but mostly as a friend because like
(44:22):
I still remember the last time Isaw him and he was so sweet to
me, where he was like,Julie, like you have to get back
into sideline reporting. He's like,you were one of the best. And
I was like, Grant, like, that's so kind of you to say,
like I've I wouldn't have ever thoughtof that, and like the fact
that he went out of his wayto say something like he's like, you
(44:45):
have to do this thing, andI was like, wow, well that
means so much coming from you,And so we know that he was so
he was so helpful to other people, and I think we, like I
wish he could just see how muchand to all of us because he went
out of his way to make everyoneelse feel good. So um, when
Brendan told me that like they weregonna have honored him on the show,
(45:09):
I was like, oh gosh,I'm gonna be an absolute mess because it's
it still like just doesn't feel real, and I feel just every single day
like so I feel so sad forhis wife, Selene, and I know
that I can't even imagine like whatshe's going through with having it happened at
(45:30):
the World Cup and guitar and Ijust feel I feel as though, like
it it was really difficult to kindof watch everyone at Fox having to broadcast
it, and a lot of themknew him really well, Like we all
knew and traveled with Grant, andI had stories with him, and I
(45:51):
messaged all of them from you know, Rob Stone and John Strong and Jenny
and Stu and all these guys justlike I can't imagine what it's like to
broadcast the World Cup right now,because it's just, uh, you're in
like a state of trauma while havingto deal with this. And so we
had, I mean, we allhad really great memories and I of him,
(46:14):
and I remember my producer Jeff whoI mentioned who I mentioned on the
podcast, My producer Jeff who Imentioned. He said, when we were
doing the Women's World Cup, Grantand I were both like in different circumstances,
like around Canada. He was onsome other games as well, and
at one point we found ourselves inVancouver and we saw him and we were
(46:37):
like wait, like Spider Man beinglike, what are you doing here?
Like We're never supposed to be inthe same place at one time, like,
oh, someone's on the wrong gameright now. And we kind of
had a fun little back and forthwith that. And and also Grant was
so nice to me when he knewI had been through a lot with the
Women's World Cup and the Gold Cupand I went for like sixty straight days
(47:01):
on the road and he's like,I scheduled you a massage at this side
place because like you need to havesome time to relax and it's been too
much for you. And I waslike, Wow, what a kind considerate
person to like even just think ofdoing that for someone else, Like it
makes you He just made you wantto be a better person, really,
(47:23):
you know. And as much aslike it's it's it's it's amazing how much
of the world like shared something withhim, but it's not surprising, Like,
you know, you're you have avery personal relationship with someone, but
so does everyone else. And Ithink that's like it kind of like inspires
(47:44):
you to connect more with other people, Like what I've seen the people that
have spoken about him, going tohis memorial and seeing Greg Berholter there and
Don Garber and all these people andjust thinking like, wow, this guy
was you know, large than life, and it's just like it's just just
so tragic that we don't have him. So I'm just really it's really kind
(48:07):
of the cast to put him inthe show. Well, thank you so
much for sharing that personal side.You can share a person's resume or share
Grant Wall's clips and obviously see thathe was kind of a seminal figure in
helping the sport grow in this country, but then to be able to just
(48:27):
hear a little bit about what hewas like as a person hopefully helps our
audience just appreciate that dedication and understandwhy the cast and crew of ted Lasso
included him the show. So thankyou so much for your willingness to open
up and share that. Of course, yeah, I appreciate you guys asking
(48:47):
me because one other note, likeSelene and I had talked about how to
kind of continue on like what Grant'sbeen working on, and also to know
like he must have had so manyother stories that he was working on that
none of us would know about,and kind of figuring out how do we
sort of carry his legacy in thatlike he was the one asking tough questions
(49:13):
and he was the one asking stuffthat and and looking into stuff that people
didn't want him to look into,and that is that is the sign of
a true journalist. And there's notenough people doing that kind of stuff,
and so we were trying to figureout how, you know, in time,
the best way to kind of likekeep Grant alive in the soccer world.
(49:36):
So it's it's definitely something that willthat you know, touches so many
different people. So thank you guysfor having me on to talk about him,
and that is our show. Wehope you enjoyed our conversation with Grant
Wall's brother Eric, as well asthe closing comments from Grant's longtime friend and
colleague Julie Stewart Banks. You canfind links to Eric, Selene and Julie's
(50:00):
social media accounts in the show notes, along with links to Grant's work and
everything else we mentioned in this episode. We'll be back soon with more ted
Lasso goodness, but you can keepthe conversation going with us on Twitter and
Instagram in the meantime. Our handleon both is at ted Lasso Pod.
This episode of Richmond Til We Dieis brought to you by Gin and Kerosene
Productions. It was produced by meBrett and my pal Christian. If you're
(50:22):
enjoying the podcast, please take thirtyseconds to subscribe to our feed and give
the show a five star review onApple podcast or a five star rating on
Spotify. Heck, if you're feelinggenerous, you could even do both.
As always, we appreciate all theways y'all share your love and support for
the pod. Okay, I'm Brett, sending off for Christian, Eric and
Julie. Thanks for listening. Untilnext time, Cheers y'all,
Welcome to the Crown and Anchor Greyhounds. This is Richmond Till We Die conversation
about the Apple TV Plus show tedLasso. We explore the characters, their
relationships to each other, how they'reable to make us laugh until we can
hardly breathe one moment and then feelwith the deepest parts of our hearts the
next. I'm Christian and I havea different kind of intro today because we
(00:37):
have a different kind of conversation foryou. You may have noticed at the
end of ted Lasso season three,episode four, titled a Big Week,
that the episode was dedicated in memoryof Grant Wall and that Coach Beard was
reading Wall's book The Beckham Experiment duringthe episode. Sports fans in the United
States will recognize the name as oneof the most prominent sports journalists of the
(01:00):
last twenty years, and arguably themost important American soccer journalist to date.
Wall wrote about college basketball and soccerfor Sports Illustrated, including cover stories about
David Beckham's decision to play for MLS, Mario Chalmers, and his game winning
shot for the Kansas Jayhawks in thechampionship game of the two thousand and eight
NCUBA tournament and the two thousand andtwo story about a high school senior from
(01:23):
Akron, Ohio named Lebron James.Those who enjoyed Wall's writings, and even
more so those who knew him personally, were stunned and saddened to hear that
he collapsed suddenly on December tenth,twenty twenty two, while in his press
box seat at the Lusiale Iconic Stadiumand Cutter, where he was covering the
World Cup quarterfinal match between Argentina andthe Netherlands. Local paramedics responded and treated
(01:47):
him for thirty minutes, including CPR, before Wall was transported to Hammad General
Hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Wall's death was a shock to everyone,
not just because people enjoyed his writingso much, but because he was
an advocate for many worthy causes andwas always willing to ask people in power
difficult questions. Today, we're gratefulto visit with Eric Wall, Grant's brother,
(02:09):
about Grant's life and legacy, andfollowing our conversation with Eric, we
will here briefly from soccer journalist JulieStewart Binks about her appreciation for Grant.
We'll publish the entirety of our fullconversation with her in the coming weeks,
but I wanted to include this particularsection with our episode today. We appreciate
(02:30):
both Eric and Julie taking some timeout to share with us why Grant was
such a special person and why heis going to be missed so much by
those who knew him most. Andso with that, Greyhounds please give a
warm welcome to Eric Wall. Thankyou guys. It's my it's my distinct
honor to be here. I don'tthink I can compare to the hurricane that
(02:53):
I listened to on the plane lastnight and Jimmy Fire, I'll give him
the best shot. Well, we'veshared with our audience some of Grant's resume,
and they can go online and seetons of stuff that he's written,
many accolades that he's won in manyways in which people have honored him since
(03:13):
his death. But you had thatpersonal relationship with him, So can you
explain in your own words who Grantwas as a brother? Yeah, and
thanks for asking. The first thingI think of is when we had Grant's
memorial in December in New York andSelene that sleeing down her Grant's wife spoke
(03:38):
first and said, sometimes we foundit hard to share Grant with the rest
of the world. And that reallyhit home with me because it's so easy
for me, having grown up withhim, to think of him as just
this dork that was in the housewith me growing up. And I think
he would say that's fair. Butas we got older and kind of developed
(04:00):
our own sort of avenues of interests, we kind of developed an interest in
each other that grew out of that. Brothers being brothers, I think gay
or straight tend to act in verysimilar ways with each other, and there
was a lot of like, Ididn't break his nose, he fell,
you know that exactly exactly, andwe grew to we appreciate each other as
(04:28):
as adult men. And so forme, Grant was my best friend,
my confidante, my defender, mysounding board, and I played that role
for him too. We were onthe phone or texting just about every other
day, and I think just talkingto other people who have experienced this kind
(04:51):
of unexpected loss has been a benefitkind of as I come to terms with
things and accept things m and Iknow that Grant would be kicking my butt
a lot of times I kind ofhave him downloaded into my into my brain
already anyhow, And anytime I'm feelingsorry for myself or thinking I can't do
(05:15):
something, I think he probably occupiesa very coaches ted lassoish place in my
brain to appreciate that. Yeah,I like that quote that you shared from
Grant's wife, because I didn't knowthat they were married for a long time.
I had started to hear her onpodcasts early in the Kelvit pandemic.
She was one of those like supersuper super frontline physicians, and she was
(05:40):
also very generous with her time andenergy because those doctors and medical professionals,
like they were working all the timeand it was super dangerous and it was
very scary, and you know,she would come on and quite calmly explain
to the world what was going onand what her experiences were. And so
I do think that for them eachindividually and then as a couple, you
(06:04):
know, sharing each other with theworld and in the ways that they did,
like we are all better off forthat. And so I would say
also to her, you know,like thank you for all that she has
done for you. And she's oneof the most amazing people I've dot,
Yeah, she is incredible, andif people have an opportunity to go and
(06:26):
find things that she's written or podcastthat she's done, like, I wholly
recommend continuing to do that, eventhough the time isn't as scary. Thank
goodness, you are a soccer fan. You enjoy the game. Do you
and Grant have any soccer memories togetherapart from his professional experiences? And you
(06:48):
know, thank you. This issomething that the people have asked me before,
Like, and I sort of dividedbetween childhood and an adulthood because growing
up where we did when we didin the seventies and eighties, UM in
Shying Mission, Kansas, UM,there was soccer practice, but most of
(07:09):
the schools hadn't fully set up soccerteams yet that that would change by the
time Grant was in high school.So my main memories are of him playing
soccer as a really little runt kindof running around UM. And I remember
him UM not fully understanding that whenwhen you break for the orange slices in
the mouth to look like a mouseguard, you don't need to like keep
(07:31):
that in your mouth when you goback to play. I just had this
memory of him like very confusedly playingthe second half with the orange slice still
in his mouth, and then afterthe game, after the game was done,
on the coach and several concerned parentstold him, like, you can
spit that out in it Althood though, UM, I have lots of great
(07:55):
soccer memories, but I think myfirst great one I my husband and I
had had moved to Seattle, andit was the MLS Championship game hosted here
in Seattle. UM, I'm sorry, I was trying to remember, Like,
it wasn't Women Field, then,it wasn't Centraling Field, it was
whatever it was before that, andand it was it was RSL and LA
(08:20):
Galaxy and it was freezing outside.I'd never brewed new to the soccer game.
It was so freezing and um,and we got tickets and Grant was
reporting, um and following the galaxyand um, we were able to walk
down to the pitch and shake handswith him. Um. And you know,
(08:41):
of course David Beckham was on thefield. That was my first David
Beckham siting And UM, I wasjust kind of enthralled all of that,
like a lot of people were.And UM, just how proud I felt
of my brother. This is dorkwith the orange slice in his face.
He didn't understand and and here heis now doing this. And then probably
the most exciting soccer memory I hadwith Grant came several years later when the
(09:07):
Women's World Cup final was held inVancouver, which rust was a simple drive
up north, and we stayed withGrant in his hotel room and men's or
women's game, that was the mostexciting soccer match I've ever seen in my
life. They were they were playingagainst Japan, who, you know,
bless them. They gave everything theyhad and they got their clocks cleaned and
(09:31):
they were gracious and amazing and bowedto the fans. I have never,
i probably never will again see amatch in which there was just like,
oh, the game has started.Boom, there's a goal. Did you
see that? Boom, there's anothergoal? And I thought, like am
I imagining this? And it wasjust like one of those incredible moments that
(09:52):
you usually just see on television andI will never forget it. And I
remember after the game people were justsort of like in this days of like
a mix of jubilation and what thehell did I just see? And that
really touched something in my heart.That reminded me of like all the best
things you think of about sports whenyou're watching on television as a kid,
(10:13):
and and all those things seemed sofar away sometimes, especially if you're like
a in a small place or aroyal place. It made me think of
like the American hockey team winning againstthe USSR in nineteen eighty and I remember
like we were planet in front ofour televisions and just losing our minds to
that. And what was so importantabout that particular Women's World Cup when for
(10:37):
me was that our mom had longbeen a huge women's sports fans, particularly
the US women's national team. Shewas so proud of Grant covering this.
But like a lot of Americans,we love it when you're winning. And
I think that in addition to likethe earlier you know, the Brandy Chastain
(10:58):
cover when day one, and Ithink about like what that probably did for
Sports Brass sales, and but tothis day, like so many people,
you say Brandy chest In and theycan conjure that that Sports Illustrated cover and
Grant was a touchstone for each ofthese events, not just for us,
but for a lot of other people. And so I thought it would be
(11:20):
difficult watching soccer matches again after Grant'sdeath, and I think it was bitter
sweet watching this year's men's World Cupfinal, but I know Grant would have
been satisfied with the result. Andnow when I watched like Saturdays, I'm
up. Really, I've got picturein picture. I'm like trying to watch
(11:43):
as many different things as I can. I sometimes have divided loyalties, as
you can see. I live inSeattle, where there's an amazing soccer club.
I'm from Kansas City, where Iwould still argue there's an amazing soccer
club despite the current situation, andI just feel proud. I feel like
Grant's really the person who got methe most into this. It was a
(12:03):
it was a sport that we hadin common, and I think I'll continue
to feel that way. I hopeour listeners go back and check out that
World Cup match that you were referencing. It was twenty fifteen, the US
versus Japan. Carly Lloyd was thecaptain at that point for the US women's
national team. I think she scoredlike two goals in the first five minutes,
(12:26):
and then she had at trick bythe sixteenth minute. And that third
goal was from almost midfield. Andthat was a match that I was watching
in a packed sports bar in Portland, sorry, right before right before Timbers
match, and I remember like thinkingat that time the same thing that you
(12:46):
were, like, this is oneof the most electric things that I've ever
seen, because everybody was so happyand it was this kind of singular feat
of athletic greatness. So people shoulddefinitely go, you're watching something historic.
And I love what I mean.Good play is always good for the game
(13:07):
in general. But I think wehave such a formidable group of women's players
in this country to be proud ofon and off the field, and they're
amazing people in general. And Ilook at what so many of them do
publicly and come forward and share theirstories if there's difficulty, and stand up
(13:31):
for one another and advocate for eachother in fairness and play, and I
think so much of this, tome represents role models for girls as well
as boys. I love it anytimeI see like a little kid, a
boy with a like a women's nationalteam jersey on or something like that,
(13:52):
I'm like, right on, akid, That's what I like to see.
Yeah, well, you mentioned Grant'srole in reporting so many of these
iconics sort of touchstone events in thegame in the US over the last couple
of decades, And for me thatwas really cemented as I really came I
played soccer growing up, but Ididn't really become a watcher or a fan
(14:13):
of watching soccer until around the twentyten World the men's twenty ten World Cup,
and his online presence was one ofthe things that really got me excited
about the sports. Like he wasprobably one of the first half a dozen
journalists slash media members that I followedthat was specifically, you know, talking
about the men's national team running aboutthe game in the States, and I
(14:35):
was hooked. And so based onthat, Like, if someone's going to
go and read one or two storiesby Grant Wall right now, what are
your some of your favorites? Ohthat's dirty cool. I'll answer it this
way because because Grant was represented ona number of different formats, and for
(14:56):
me, I would I would saywith his most recent endeavor, his sub
stack endeavor, and he was reallyproud of it for good reason and not
to court controversy, but he dida piece about the Arena family and I
know within the soccer community, alot of people know, but outside the
soccer community, a lot of peoplemay not know the types of things that
(15:18):
this family has had to endure.And the piece was written about the death
of one of their sons, ofGeo's brother, and what that was like
for a family so enmeshed in thesoccer world, and how they had to
adjust to deal with what was happeningto their son that they were watching die
(15:45):
and still interact with the world asit as it continues to go. And
Grant was really impressed by the family, really touched by their openness, and
he and I talked a lot ofout that as he was working on it.
And so with these more recent developments, I really feel for Geo.
(16:07):
I mean there there there's probably versionsof fault on all sides. I thought
a lot about how would Grant reactthis. He definitely would react to the
pile on before we had all theinformation, and there was a lot of
speculation one way or the other,and it wasn't it wasn't necessarily healthy speculation.
(16:30):
Lots of us can identify with thefeeling of wanting to protect your child,
and a lot of this came aboutbecause of her egos and things like
this that were within a really Ithink problematically we now know enmeshed dysfunctional family
(16:52):
that is US soccer. Purely myopinion, but the more I learn about
like how it is, I thinkI understand it more. You know,
here's this kid who's a phenomenal playerI think is going to become an even
more phenomenal player, and he isacknowledged like that he could have done better.
(17:18):
I think he has so much moreto give and to show the men's
national team, and I just reallyhope he's given that chance and he's just
allowed to be the player he hasgrowing up. Use the term dysfunctional to
describe US soccer. We sometimes havea hard time on this podcast coming up
with descriptors for US soccer and evenmore SOPHIFA, like we can't like well
(17:42):
figuring out the strong language to explainthings to some of our listeners who just
aren't familiar with the soccer world.One of the things that Grant was known
for was asking tough questions about theissues of dysfunction, both in US Soccer
and FIFA. There's some risk inthat because it's like it's a small community
(18:03):
and so you could get pushed outor frozen out by just a couple of
people, and then that could reallylimit your access. But he was still
willing to ask those questions. Andone of the big issues that was swirling
around this past World Cup and Cutterwas out of human rights and legitimate questions
as to how LGBTQ plus fans weregoing to be treated when they attended if
(18:29):
they attended this tournament. And oneof the things that granted while he was
there, he wore made a pointof wearing a rainbow soccer shirt soccer ball
with a rainbow around it to aUS match and he ended up being detained,
like there was a freedom of speechDid anti freedom of speech detainment that
happened there? Did he talk toyou about wearing that shirt before he did
(18:53):
it? And then what was kindof some of your reaction once you saw
how it was playing. Yes,we talked about it. In fact,
we talked about it quite a bit. Before he went to Katar, he
told me that he had a selectionof rainbow shirts, and honestly, my
first thought was, oh, no, he like, I've lived in the
(19:14):
Middle East. I've lived and workedin the Middle East, and he knew
that. And I worried that itwould it would be buying trouble. And
one thing that I've always known aboutGrant and a lot of people who've worked
with Grant and now that it wasalways important for him to not be the
story himself, and this was abit of a pivot for him. But
he also knew how important soccer wasin our family and to me and how
(19:41):
I had grown up. Seventies andages were not a great time to be
finding out you were a gay kidin Kansas, and he saw a lot
of the things that happened to me. And he also knew my living in
and love of so many things aboutthe Middle East. And I talked to
him about human rights in the MiddleEast in relation to lgbt QAI plus people
(20:07):
because they exist, and I thinkat the time he thought it was just
a way to show support. Ithink he was definitely dubious about the declaration
from FIFA and the Cutter World CupCommittee that displays like that would be allowed,
(20:30):
And at first I asked him notto wear the shirt. I didn't
think it was a good idea basedon my own experiences in the Middle East.
But we talked about it quite abit and He explained that he felt
this was kind of like a oncein a lifetime opportunity to bring attention to
the fact that gay people exist everywhere, and that he wanted to show that
(20:52):
he was supportive of that, andso he did what he did. And
when we first saw the picture thathe posted, the selfie that he posted
had some people asked me if Ithought this was a stunt, and I
could see where they were coming from. But by and large the people who
are asking that didn't know Grant theway that I did, And I think
(21:15):
maybe fifty percent expected that he wouldn'tjust be waved into the stadium, but
he looked at it as a asa moment, an opportunity to show kind
of this sad situation. I guesshe definitely was no fan of the way
that Cutter or Russia secured their WorldCup bids. I have no problem saying
(21:41):
that I think FIFA up rights likea crime family. That's my personal opinion.
But I think that people can dothe research and find out he was
no fan of said Bladder, andI don't think in the end he was
a big fan of Infantino either.To me, FIFA got absolutely played.
I could her. Um, theygot what they wanted. But at the
(22:03):
same time, Grant and writers anotherjournalists like him were able to show a
little bit more of how these internalworkings are corroded. Um and UM.
I would love to be a floodon the wall, like in the in
the Budweiser boardroom, uh, tosee what happened behind the scenes when all
(22:26):
of a sudden they were able tosell beer in the country where the World
Cup was being a that was awhole mess. And so when the T
shirt stuff kind of blew up,Grant started getting death threats and um and
he would be the first treatment.Like in his line of work. You
(22:47):
know, the Internet is full ofcolorful people, but these were more pointed.
A lot of them were coming fromlike Qatari bought accounts. And honestly,
our family was a little bit pastthe point of being worried about Grant,
because Grant was going to do Grantwherever he was, so we just
said be careful, and in successivephone calls with him, he told me
(23:11):
he was getting other other death threats. And while he had been doing some
online interview with someone in this kindof house that he and some other journalists
had rented together. During the WorldCup, some strange man walked into the
house and just like I wasn't ina seeming hurry, looked around, and
(23:33):
Grant was trying to stay with theinterview. He was doing well, like
giving side eye to this strange person. And then the guy just like slowly
walked out of the house and left. I said, well, Grant,
didn't that concern us? The worldcourse, that concerned me. And at
first he thought that it was somebodywho had just walked into the wrong house.
He said that a number of themlike looked similar. But I so
(23:53):
I had that in my mind andthe descriptions of some of the death threats
he was getting when and he died, and I landed on a conclusion that
I wish i'd kept myself. Iposted a video online. I didn't have
very many people followed me, andit was honestly mostly people I knew or
knew of, because with the informationI had, I thought it would not
(24:15):
have surprised me if something shady hadhappened. And then I dealt with a
lot of things on the phone,family members back and forth, and and
then I thought, you know,I needed to let that video. I
just wasn't. It didn't sit rightwith me, and so I went back
to do it, but my husbandsaid, it's everywhere, and I didn't
(24:37):
really understand then what he meant byeverywhere. But some some news outlets posted
it without my permission, and Igot a real media education really quick,
and I'm glad I didn't blame anyonedirectly, thank goodness. But then I
started getting my own death threats anddidn't feels super comfortable, and lots of
(25:02):
weird stuff happened. So between thetime that Grant passed away and the time
that we had his initial his initialautopsy findings, that was the worst because
we didn't know what had happened,and we couldn't say anything definitively. Lots
of people were asking, and Ifelt a huge amount of guilt. I
(25:23):
was going through the beginnings of adivorce here and Grant was concerned about me,
and he had offered to actually leavethe World Cup and come stay with
me, and so I was feelingguilt like I should have told him to
leave and come here. But wenow know that where he was on the
globe wouldn't have mattered. He hadthis condition that we didn't know about that
(25:44):
he didn't know about, and thatwas the amazing health of the New York
Medical Examiner's Office. We're learning alot about genetics and genetic testing. He
had this very unusual, little studiedgenetic ablunality. I found out that I
had it as well, and we'retracing through our family to find out the
direct line of it, and it'sit's absolutely fascinating, but doctors don't know
(26:07):
to look for it, and soit slean in particular. We met with
the genesis when we were in Houston. Are working with some organizations to make
this more widely known and encourage peopleto get tested. Because of a sad
sort of way, Grant's death effectivelysaved my life. He was walking around
(26:29):
with this time bomb in him unaware, and had we known, we would
have known how to treat it.So I'm getting treatment, but it's just
an odd kind of mental space tobe in getting treatment because of what happened
to Grant. And I have theT shirt. I have the T shirt
now. Selen gave me the Tshirt and the hat that he was wearing,
and I'm not sure what to dowith him yet. I thought about
(26:52):
framing it or or donating it toan organization, but it's it's nice to
have that piece of him here.I think that the all things happen for
a reason. Line can be prettyhurtful to people, and just like not
how things work out. I dobelieve that from out of our hurt or
pain or trauma, you know,good things can come out of that as
(27:18):
it gets processed. And so itis encouraging to hear you know that hopefully
your health outlook can be more promisingnow and hopefully some more research and advocacy
and awareness can be made about thiscondition. And there are a lot of
opportunities now to tell stories that areimportant and to highlight causes that are important.
(27:42):
Because Grant was such a great writeracross different sports. Like we're talking
about him as a soccer writer,but you know, you just got back
from the Final Four where he wasinducted into the National Basketball Writers Hall of
Fame, and he wrote about anumber of different sports. What has stood
out to you amongst the outpouring ofsupport that you and the rest of the
(28:07):
family have received, kind of likesince the memorial and you've maybe had more
more time and capacity to process someof that. The number one thing that
I didn't expect since I've been kindof slagging off on Twitter is the number
of incredibly kind people on Twitter.I mean, for every sort of like
(28:32):
snarky, root or mean comment Ihad, in order of magnitude, more
supportive comments and from people like sharingtheir their own issues. Always just sounds
me that like someone could say somethingmaybe almost TMI online and you'll you'll get
your requisite nut jobs, but alsoa lot of very sincere people. And
(28:55):
I can't believe I'm saying this,but I took a lot of comfort in
in Twitter in those days just becauseof the number of people who were responding
so nicely and sincerely because Grant haddone something of value for them. Also
in terms of like team and clubresponses, I would be remiss if I
(29:18):
didn't say probably the most important andtouching went to me came from the Sporting
Kansas City organization invited me to comeout for their home opener, and what
an incredible organization, but also thefact that it's my our hometown. I
was given an itinerator, which reallyhelps people with high anxiety like I have,
(29:38):
so I felt like, Okay,I know what's going to happen on
all these bullet points. But Iwasn't prepared for was walking out on the
pitch to they were inducting Grant intotheir local Legends initiative with a plaque and
a frame jersey. And I'm standingthere on the pitch and of this field
(30:00):
that I had only watched on television, and it's a beautiful field, and
pictures of Grant are up on thebig screen. And then in the south
stand, the supporters area, theywere chanting, we love you Grant,
and I just about lost it.But it was such an amazing moment that
the outcome of the game really didn'tmatter so much to me. But I
(30:22):
will say it was a tie,and they had thirty two shots on goals,
so that's not enough. But like, in a larger sense, my
time there in Kansas City really didfeel like coming home. I mean it
was, but strangers shook my handthis I went for a walk around my
hotel just to get some air,and this woman asked, are you are
(30:45):
you grand Wall's brother, And Isaid yes, a little warily, and
she said I would I would reallylike to give you a hug, and
Walls are not a huggy People werevery prushing about that. But I said
okay, and she gave me thishug again. She just kept hugging,
and I thought, oh, whatdo I do? Okay, fake propos
or at fake perpose, and andshe just said your home, Your home.
(31:07):
And it's that kind of extremely unselfconsciously sincere behavior that I associate with
Kansas City and in general, bothsides of the state line. We think
of it as a metro area.And it also is what I see a
lot of in the ted Lasso character. And when I first started watching the
show, all I could think ofwas he's playing Roy Williams. He's playing
(31:30):
coach Roy from from the Jayhawks andthen North Carolina, and like the shape
of his mouth and the sound ofhis voice, and it was uncanny to
me, and I don't I don'tknow Jason, and I don't know if
that's what he was modeling the characteron, but I felt it so strongly,
and there's just something about it theshow that makes me proud of where
(31:53):
I come from. It's so it'sso easy to like joke about cans and
cans, and my experience of itis a is very different relief of Kansas
City and people who lived there,regardless of their politics. They're just nice
people. They can't help themselves.So you were you are a fan of
(32:15):
Ted Lasso and um Grant enjoyed theshow as well. Which one of you
got into the show first. UmGrant got into it first, and he
told me about it frequently on thephone, and I just thought, you
know, that's great. I heardabout it, you know, in various
places, but I thought, well, it's on one of those rich people
(32:37):
streaming TV services that I'm never goingto have. So I'm glad you like
it, Grant and um and thenhe would tell me like and in season
two came out and he and hewas a super dork about Dan, the
character Danny. Umre this there's thisguy and pretty much like the only line
(32:57):
he has for several times is justlike football his life. And he would
say it as though he were Dannyand a very grant thing, and it
was it was very true in ourin our family, like growing up is
that he would seize on phrases ornames he thought were funny and he would
insert them into conversations as non sequitiesanytime he didn't like the direction the conversation
was going or things were uncomfortable soI could be like telling him, like,
(33:22):
Okay, I'm glad you think that'sso funny, but like here's this
other crazy thing that a relative didand we didn't know really where to go
with it. And he would justthere be a pause and he'd say football
his life, and then we wouldjust laugh because like that was something Grant
would do and likes. As farback as I remember, he would do
stuff like that and it was thatkind of dorky joy. I think that
(33:45):
really characterizes Grant's approach to life andto soccer and to see how it engages
people. So when I found outthat I actually had Apple TV all along
or Apple TV Plus and was Isurprised, Like how long have I been
paying for that? But it turnedout that we had it. We had
(34:05):
we had purchased it solely to watchPrehistoric Planet at about dinosaurs because my husband
is a paleptologist. I'm incredible ina second season it's coming out, and
I thought, oh, um,okay that and was I made a little
mental bookmark. I will I willhume the Grant and I will watch this
show and I one of my bigregrets is that I didn't start doing that
(34:27):
until after he passed away. Butum, and this was something that a
very kind person on Twitter mentioned andI had just watched I'd just binged the
first season and in the in thebeginning of the second because I made some
tweet like addressed to Grant saying Grant, I finally started watching Ted Lasso,
and I see him in so muchof it. I see so much of
(34:51):
his approach to things, and andit's an homage in several ways to where
we come from. And it's soclever you can miss like half the in
jokes until you watch it a secondtime. I mean, most recently,
there was like this coss Off jokeabout amos Otis, who was like a
famous based dealer for the Kansas toRoyals. I can't imagine what people in
(35:12):
the UK were thinking, like whatum, But then they went to look
him up. Um. Yeah,if they didn't get the Field of Dreams
joke, they're definitely not getting areference. Yes, And sometimes the show
is so self referential or so selfconscious about that that when he made the
joke about about the Dukes of Hazardand then felt the need to like rename
it for the UK audience something likethe Earls of inconvenience or something like that.
(35:38):
Yes, earls of risk, thosekinds of things made me feel like
Grant was in the writer's room orsomething, because that's exactly his kind of
a sense of humor, that kindof laughing at the absurdity of the world.
But so I started watching the showand feeling all the things that I
realized that I was seeing other peopletalk about long ago. And sometimes I'm
late to the party. But awoman on Twitter, very great, he
(36:00):
said, like, um, fora lot of people, the show arrives
when you need it too, andthat was very much the case for me.
It really felt like holding him Grantclose and laughing and joking around with
him. And I think Jason Tudecasis absolutely brilliant. I think it's very
easy for us in the United States, especially to think of comedy as somehow
(36:23):
a lesser endeavor than in serious drama. But I can't think of a single
comedian that I admire who isn't deeplyin touch with trauma or life experiences that
really informed the comedy and the desireto find joy and humor in the world.
And it just amazes me that thathe and Brendan and Brett and their
(36:47):
team have crafted something like almost jewellike to me. You know, I
come from a creative writing background,but in a literary sent in academic sense,
and I used to pause button alot, say wait a minute,
what did he say? What Ithink he said? Or most recently,
because I'm halfway through the fourth episode, I put it on pause, like
(37:08):
I said, just by happenstance whileCoach Feartt is holding Grant's book and I
just stared at like what which justlike setting me the mood you mentioned a
moment ago that you know, yousort of feel like Grant's personality or his
finger prints are sort of on thisshow, just based on the tone and
(37:30):
kind of how you receive it asa viewer. I think that makes a
lot of sense, though, whetheror not that's actually the case or not.
Like whenever Brendan Hunt was hosting hisWorld Cup podcast, Men's World Cup
Podcast with Rebecca Lowe, once theevents happened in Qatar and Grant passed like
they took a moment of an episodeto talk about how meaningful he was for
(37:52):
both of them, his work andjust him as a person. They had
both had the opportunity to meet him, and so it makes sense that that
sensibility would be present in the show. And it makes sense to that an
episode of this television show that isabout so many of the things that Grant
stood for would be dedicated to him. So what was your reaction when you
found out that season three, episodefour of ted Lasso would be dedicated to
(38:14):
your brother? I found out ina very strange way, um And and
Elon. I hated to give youcredit because I found it on Twitter from
a French journalist who had disclosed inFrench something that I'd sort of heard rumbles
about that a number of reviewers weregiven that the first four episodes to review,
(38:35):
and and then I was also impressedthat so many of them had had
remained tight lipped about it. UmI knew that that Grant had Brendan and
Jason on on his own podcast,um and he called me just stupid excited
about it. I mean like highdoorc levels and mutable point, like he
(38:58):
couldn't get a sentence out without goingm just like this his door laugh and
h and I knew. I knewthat he'd had time to visit them in
Richmond, and this was before Iknew knew anything about the show other than
it was on a streaming service Ithought was just for rich people, and
so it was a little abstract tome. But then I saw this,
(39:19):
uh French reviewers tweet that the episodewould be dedicated to Grant um and that
was how I found out. Andwe have French folks in our family.
Selene's mother is from France and allof her sisters speak French, and I'm
like the lone crowd trying to teachthe kids of German words just to get
(39:39):
in there. But um, thenI started like learning some other things,
and some some very nice I guessI'll say anonymous sources DMed me like with
a synopsis, and Grant would havebeen blown away. It's not something he
would have expected. I think justthe image of Coach Beard holding Grant's book
(40:05):
alone would have been a lifelong memoryfor him. And And now to see
a show that I know resonates withso many people but that it's so dear
to me, like in a verydeep way. It feels like now I
have a relationship with this show aswell, and we know that like Jason
comes from where we come from,and it's like it's like if you were
(40:29):
watching Cheers in the eighties and allof a sudden, like they wear your
hat. That's what it feels liketo me. Yeah, and I'm almost
speechless, but it just feels likeit feels like a hug. That's really
amazing. All right, man,Well, we will let you get back
to the important things of finishing thatepisode of Tedalasso, yes, and hopefully
(40:52):
getting a nap. Yeah. Wejust kind of felt like we could explain
some about Grant in our episode whenwe talk about this eventually, but it
was going to be a long timeand we wouldn't really be able to cover
at all. So we appreciate yougiving voice to that in a very personal
way. Thank you, guys.I appreciate you. And now we'll hear
(41:16):
briefly from Julie Stewart Binks, asports reporter and journalist who worked with Grant
Wall covering soccer on Fox Sports backin the early twenty tens, and who
remained a long time friend of Grantseven after they both moved on to other
professional projects. As Christian mentioned inthe intro to this episode, we had
a longer conversation with Julie that willbe publishing in the coming weeks, but
(41:36):
we wanted to include this portion ofour conversation in this episode. Julie.
Episode four of season three is dedicatedto soccer journalists Grant Wall, who passed
away while covering this most recent Men'sWorld Cup in Cutter. From your perspective,
how was Grant known within the communityof sports and specifically soccer journalists.
(42:01):
Well, I mean Grant was knownas the best, like the ultimate standard.
He was not only the standard,but he was the driving force for
so many stories, for causes forso many people that have been marginalized within
the sport or have been underrepresented.And he was just such an incredible journalist
(42:28):
and that he did his job tothe most like ethical, highest standard possible.
And as a younger journalist when Ifirst got to know him working at
Fox Sports, he was a contributoron our show Fox Soccer Daily. It
was really inspiring getting to see hiswork up close and personal and being able
to talk with him about a numberof different issues. And I was going
(42:52):
back through like my direct messages withGrant from twenty thirteen when I first met
him and we were and have MLSrights on Fox, and I remember telling
him like we were all working onbreaking the story of and I mean me,
I was kind of an outsider atthe time, but of the collective
bargaining agreement with MLS, and Iremember I looked back and I had I
(43:15):
messaged Grant before I went before Iwent public with it. I was like,
a deal is done. He waslike, go for it, and
I was like, I have thismany sources. He's like tweeted out,
I'll retweet you. And like Grantwas working on the story himself, you
know, like it was he Iyou know, in the journalism world.
(43:35):
I was like, oh, Igot it first. But Grant was like
right there to support me instantly,And there aren't people like that in this
industry a lot of the time.And he was so selfless and he was
so as we know, supportive ofa lot of younger people in the industry.
But he was also like a realperson too and kind of looking at
(44:00):
what he's done in the industry,who he was as a person. Like
going back through a lot of ourmessages, we had so many different conversations
across like so many different things.I knew I would get emotional talking about
him, but um, it's justreally tragic too. I have lost him
in the world and also obviously soccer, but mostly as a friend because like
(44:22):
I still remember the last time Isaw him and he was so sweet to
me, where he was like,Julie, like you have to get back
into sideline reporting. He's like,you were one of the best. And
I was like, Grant, like, that's so kind of you to say,
like I've I wouldn't have ever thoughtof that, and like the fact
that he went out of his wayto say something like he's like, you
(44:45):
have to do this thing, andI was like, wow, well that
means so much coming from you,And so we know that he was so
he was so helpful to other people, and I think we, like I
wish he could just see how muchand to all of us because he went
out of his way to make everyoneelse feel good. So um, when
Brendan told me that like they weregonna have honored him on the show,
(45:09):
I was like, oh gosh,I'm gonna be an absolute mess because it's
it still like just doesn't feel real, and I feel just every single day
like so I feel so sad forhis wife, Selene, and I know
that I can't even imagine like whatshe's going through with having it happened at
(45:30):
the World Cup and guitar and Ijust feel I feel as though, like
it it was really difficult to kindof watch everyone at Fox having to broadcast
it, and a lot of themknew him really well, Like we all
knew and traveled with Grant, andI had stories with him, and I
(45:51):
messaged all of them from you know, Rob Stone and John Strong and Jenny
and Stu and all these guys justlike I can't imagine what it's like to
broadcast the World Cup right now,because it's just, uh, you're in
like a state of trauma while havingto deal with this. And so we
had, I mean, we allhad really great memories and I of him,
(46:14):
and I remember my producer Jeff whoI mentioned who I mentioned on the
podcast, My producer Jeff who Imentioned. He said, when we were
doing the Women's World Cup, Grantand I were both like in different circumstances,
like around Canada. He was onsome other games as well, and
at one point we found ourselves inVancouver and we saw him and we were
(46:37):
like wait, like Spider Man beinglike, what are you doing here?
Like We're never supposed to be inthe same place at one time, like,
oh, someone's on the wrong gameright now. And we kind of
had a fun little back and forthwith that. And and also Grant was
so nice to me when he knewI had been through a lot with the
Women's World Cup and the Gold Cupand I went for like sixty straight days
(47:01):
on the road and he's like,I scheduled you a massage at this side
place because like you need to havesome time to relax and it's been too
much for you. And I waslike, Wow, what a kind considerate
person to like even just think ofdoing that for someone else, Like it
makes you He just made you wantto be a better person, really,
(47:23):
you know. And as much aslike it's it's it's it's amazing how much
of the world like shared something withhim, but it's not surprising, Like,
you know, you're you have avery personal relationship with someone, but
so does everyone else. And Ithink that's like it kind of like inspires
(47:44):
you to connect more with other people, Like what I've seen the people that
have spoken about him, going tohis memorial and seeing Greg Berholter there and
Don Garber and all these people andjust thinking like, wow, this guy
was you know, large than life, and it's just like it's just just
so tragic that we don't have him. So I'm just really it's really kind
(48:07):
of the cast to put him inthe show. Well, thank you so
much for sharing that personal side.You can share a person's resume or share
Grant Wall's clips and obviously see thathe was kind of a seminal figure in
helping the sport grow in this country, but then to be able to just
(48:27):
hear a little bit about what hewas like as a person hopefully helps our
audience just appreciate that dedication and understandwhy the cast and crew of ted Lasso
included him the show. So thankyou so much for your willingness to open
up and share that. Of course, yeah, I appreciate you guys asking
(48:47):
me because one other note, likeSelene and I had talked about how to
kind of continue on like what Grant'sbeen working on, and also to know
like he must have had so manyother stories that he was working on that
none of us would know about,and kind of figuring out how do we
sort of carry his legacy in thatlike he was the one asking tough questions
(49:13):
and he was the one asking stuffthat and and looking into stuff that people
didn't want him to look into,and that is that is the sign of
a true journalist. And there's notenough people doing that kind of stuff,
and so we were trying to figureout how, you know, in time,
the best way to kind of likekeep Grant alive in the soccer world.
(49:36):
So it's it's definitely something that willthat you know, touches so many
different people. So thank you guysfor having me on to talk about him,
and that is our show. Wehope you enjoyed our conversation with Grant
Wall's brother Eric, as well asthe closing comments from Grant's longtime friend and
colleague Julie Stewart Banks. You canfind links to Eric, Selene and Julie's
(50:00):
social media accounts in the show notes, along with links to Grant's work and
everything else we mentioned in this episode. We'll be back soon with more ted
Lasso goodness, but you can keepthe conversation going with us on Twitter and
Instagram in the meantime. Our handleon both is at ted Lasso Pod.
This episode of Richmond Til We Dieis brought to you by Gin and Kerosene
Productions. It was produced by meBrett and my pal Christian. If you're
(50:22):
enjoying the podcast, please take thirtyseconds to subscribe to our feed and give
the show a five star review onApple podcast or a five star rating on
Spotify. Heck, if you're feelinggenerous, you could even do both.
As always, we appreciate all theways y'all share your love and support for
the pod. Okay, I'm Brett, sending off for Christian, Eric and
Julie. Thanks for listening. Untilnext time, Cheers y'all,
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