September 28, 2025 • 19 mins
Dr. Eugene Manley has three degrees and couldn't get a job.
This mechanical engineer, biomedical engineer, and molecular biologist discovered the brutal truth: academia teaches you everything except how to succeed outside academia.
Growing up first-generation in Detroit, watching his family struggle with healthcare, he saw the devastating gaps in medical access for underserved populations.
Now he's fighting back through the SCHEQ Foundation, exposing why diverse scholars can't find work and why minorities don't get equal healthcare information.
This conversation will shatter everything you think you know about higher education and healthcare equity.
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If you're serious about reclaiming your energy, your clarity, your life start there.
Because breakthrough doesn’t begin with doing more. It begins with finally seeing what’s been stealing your power.
Learn more about Baz Porter at www.bazporter.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Welcome back to another episode of Rise from the
Ashes.
I'm Bad Your Host Baz Porter.
I am joined today by an absolutelegend.
He's becoming more of a friendthan actually a work colleague.
His name is Eugene Manley.
He's also a doctor, PhD.
I'm gonna let him explain who heis and what he does.
Whereabouts are you, Eugene?
(00:29):
And what do you do?
Can you tell the world a bitabout who you are?
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Good morning, Baz.
As he said, I'm Dr.
Eugene Manley Jr.
And right now I'm based in NewYork City.
But I grew up in Detroit, and Irun a nonprofit called the Sheck
Foundation or SCHEQ, whichstands for STEM and Cancer
Health Equity.
And more broadly, we work toincrease workforce diversity in
(00:54):
STEM fields, getting informationand resources to patients help
them navigate basic medical careand cancer care, and we help
organizations, communityengagement, and trial diversity.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
That's a hell of a mouthful.
How did you going back a fewyears ago?
How did you come to doing whatyou're doing now?
What was that journey for you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
That was actually a very interesting story.
If you had asked me five yearsago, I would have never said I
would be running a nonprofit.
It was not remotely on my radar.
But I grew up in Detroit, firstgen inner city, and I just saw
how healthcare was and wasn'tdelivered to my family, and how
they, you know, was struggled toget information.
(01:37):
You know, they couldn't reallyread the my chart notes.
As I went through academia atdifferent levels, I saw they
were happy to have diversescholars at the time, but they
weren't necessarily making surethat we get the grant writing or
the other tools and skills tothen go into academia and
sustain careers.
(01:57):
And then lastly, as Itransitioned to patient
advocacy, but also as did somecaregiving growing up, I just
saw that many underservedpopulations don't get the same
access to information thatmajority populations get.
They don't get the sameinformation about screening,
clinical trials, biomarkers.
And I finally decided that therewas something I needed to
(02:21):
address.
And then I put my brain togetherbecause I'm a mechanical
engineer, a biomedical engineer,animalcular biologist.
And I said, what can I do toactually address some of these
structural issues?
And that sort of laid thefoundation for the launching of
the Chef Foundation.
But if you think of it, we lookat childhood where we see no
(02:42):
people that really look like youin STEM fields.
So I decided how can we givemore information out to kids to
let them know about differentSTEM careers, how to get in
them, what kind of a day in thelife is like, how do we then
help these scholars that are inuniversity or professional
programs navigate their degrees,their degree transitions to get
(03:04):
them in the workforce.
And then lastly, really tryingto simplify the medical
terminology so the patients canunderstand it and be more
empowered to advocate for carethat they're entitled.
I I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
But then they go out into the work into the work
market or the markets and theycan't find one.
Because it's there's justsaturation.
I don't know the dynamics behindit.
This isn't my expertise at all.
What are the challenges you seewith this sort of transition
from university getting highlyqualified and then coming out
(03:50):
into the medical field andfinding there's no work for
them?
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
So there are multiple levels where there are
challenges.
Typically, if you're first gen,often you don't know that
there's an advanced degree oradvanced degrees.
You may not know how to applyfor jobs, you may not know how
to do interviews, and then onceyou get in the workspace,
sometimes you still don'tunderstand that you have to
(04:16):
track a certain way inprofessional environments to
keep a job in advance.
It doesn't necessarily mean it'smay fit with your personality,
but you have to learn how tonavigate those spaces.
But often the biggest challengeis you go get a degree, but
you're only taught about thatdegree, and you're not taught
about what other options thereare.
(04:37):
Typically, undergrads, you go,you're gonna do an engineering
degree.
Okay, do I get a master's or doI just go to work?
Or am I gonna go to med schooland then go to work?
Then the biggest vague spot isthe PhD because people think the
P, yes, the PhD makes you anexpert in one small space, but
so many people misunderstandthat the PhD teaches you problem
(04:57):
solving, critical thinking,writing, perseverance, and these
are skills that can translate tomany other areas.
So so many people don't knowthat you can go into government,
nonprofit, patient advocacy,science writing, science
communication.
Basically, the roles arelimitless with a science degree.
If you don't get so stuffed thatI have a PhD, I must do what my
(05:20):
degree is.
So that's the artist and gettingpeople to understand the degree
gave you the skills to show youcan critically think, but then
you can apply them anywhere, andthat's the biggest gap they
don't have.
But also, academia has a recordof really only teaching you what
you need to do for your degreeor to stay in academia, that
(05:43):
doesn't necessarily help youtranslate that out to jobs that
are outside of academia, so thatalso becomes a challenge for
scholars.
And then if we're looking athiring, well, that's a whole
different hidden caboodle.
You could apply for jobs fordays, but still, unless you
really have someone on theinside that is inside pulling
(06:06):
for you, it is really hard toget past ATS.
And even if you get past it,there's no guarantee you're
still going to get an interview.
And then, at least what I seeunderserved scholars, we have to
try to play this line of okay,we have this question, you know,
name a situation this why areyou leaving this job?
And then you're playing the gameof giving the answers they need
(06:29):
to hear, as opposed to beingable to be truthful because they
they want to know that you'resafe to hire, not necessarily
how great you are.
So you always are trying tobalance that when you're
interviewing, and it's a really,really tough road.
And interviewing is I mean, evenjust applying is frustrating
because you could people sayI've applied for 40 jobs and not
got a call back.
That doesn't that's not areflection of you, it's it is
(06:53):
exhausting and ex and painfuland stressful, and you, I mean,
if not unheard of putting outtwo to three hundred apps before
you get in a couple ofinterviews.
Then sometimes if you're good orlucky, you get them sooner.
But there's no unfortunately,there's no mystery box that's
gonna make you get a fast or getan interview.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
I mean, that's your to me, that sounds like extreme
bias within industries.
I I don't know the industry, soI can't speak into it.
But you mentioned somethingearlier to me, and I want to
come back into what you'resaying now, but you mentioned
something earlier to me aboutfive years ago, you wouldn't
believe you were doing thistoday.
What led you to that five-yearpoint a few years ago and going,
(07:36):
well, what was the lead up tothat, and why did you change the
whole structure of your basiclife and what you did, your
identity?
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Well, I've always been a unique individual and
I've always done things outsidethe box.
I've never stayed within a box,really never have.
And so I've always been justwilling to explore and do
different things.
And I saw my education as everydegree was a chance to get
different tools and skills.
So my undergrad was just gettingthe engineering degree, my
(08:07):
master's was getting thebiomedical engineering and
biomechanics, the PhD wasgetting the cancer work in the
molecular biology.
Then there was this phase whereI wanted to be a professor to
study cancers that metastasizethe bone.
So I started doing work in bonebiology, biomechanics, arsenic,
and do carcinogenesis and likesignaling cascades and cancer,
(08:29):
and then breast cancer imaging.
But then I finally hit the pointwhere I said I was getting tired
of being underpaid as a postdoc.
And then as you do, and what youdon't know going in is your PhD
is the best time for you to geta job.
Finish the degree, get a job.
If you go into postdocs, eventhough you're a professional at
that point, every year in apostdoc means you still are
(08:54):
considered a trainee.
So if you go to apply for anindustry job, those years of
postdocing don't count, soyou're just losing professional
years.
I know that sounds crazy.
So I postdoc seven plus yearsand they don't count.
You don't get professionalcredit, so you're still starting
at scientists or assistantscientists zero.
(09:14):
So it's like if you know you'renot going to send it, get out as
soon as you can.
Have the market will be hard toget a job.
So I would tell people,especially in the biological
sciences, it is okay to go to astartup because the goal is just
to start getting professionalexperience because they count
years of doing stuff.
So just get any company and do ayear or two, even if you jump
(09:36):
this, keep moving.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
I love that advice.
I mean, people go in there andgo stagnate into stagnation, not
just in your field, but in a lotof fields.
They go into stagnation of I'lljust do it because I know this
is safe.
And they're in this box of oh, Iknow what I'm doing here, but
when they go hit the real worldand they want to transition,
suddenly they can't.
(09:59):
Because they have this, oh,you've done this, but it doesn't
count.
It's like what you just saidreset to zero.
How did you navigate some ofthis?
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
I was always just driven, motivated, and I never
let systems tell me what I couldor couldn't do.
Some have tried, but I'm verystubborn and very independent.
And so if I ever get to a pointwhere I'm not going to be
allowed to do the things that Ithink will have the best impact,
and I don't have a rationalreason for why they're being
(10:32):
inhibited, then I will leave.
You don't have to stay and bemiserable.
You don't have to stay whenpeople are disrespecting.
You don't have to stay whenthey're playing favorites.
You you will see this a lot.
You mean sometimes you have tostay because you need a job, but
don't let a job be the reasonyou get run down into the ground
and then start doubtingyourself.
(10:52):
So I use, I think all jobs, youshould get skills from every job
you have, the good or bad.
You can take theseinterstellars.
Ah, this is something I can doassimilate all my skills.
(11:13):
Like I still am a re technicallya researcher.
I can still do biomechanics, Ican still understand cancer, but
now I do a lot more patienteducation, patient advocacy.
But also, I've always been acommunicator and a talker.
So I just combine all this stuffinto one.
It wasn't that I thought aboutit, just okay, I have to add
this.
I've got grant management, I'vegot science writing, I know how
to advocate.
(11:34):
I've literally seen whathealthcare doesn't look like.
What can we do to helppopulations that don't really
readily have access toinformation and resources?
So that's the long version ofsort of how I launched the
nonprofit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
I love that.
I mean, it's trial by fire,basically.
You've gone through a series ofchallenges overcoming them, and
then you've learned how tonavigate a system which is
slightly uh largely outdatedbecause of the bias towards what
they knew about three, fourhundred years ago, and it still
(12:07):
goes on.
We go into classrooms today,even in the schools, and they
indoctrinate people to sit incertain ways when they do the
exams.
It's the same thing.
There has there's no model beenupdated to fit the environment
which it is today.
Correct, and and there's a wholething behind that that I won't
go into on live on air for athousand reasons.
(12:29):
I like my podcast, I like it tobe led, and you know, I don't
want to get shut down.
But anyway, what as when youentered entrepreneurship,
Eugene, how was that transitionfor you?
Because it entrepreneurs is justlike living on a roller coaster
constantly until you get yousomeone once said to me, You
can't be efficient or you can'tbe effective if you're not
(12:52):
efficient.
So, this this aspect ofentrepreneurship is that roller
coaster, it's gettingcomfortable with being
uncomfortable.
How has that journey been foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
So interesting.
Some people don't understand it,but launching a nonprofit is the
same as entrepreneurship.
The challenges are the same.
It's you know, what's yourmission?
What's your product?
What's your value proposition?
What are you trying to do?
How are you going to fundraise?
Eventually, how are you going tostaff?
(13:24):
How are you going to scale?
These are universal issues foranyone that's under you have to
one, be some kind of visionary.
You don't have to be a visionaryleader, but you have to have
some kind of vision that you cansort of shape into what you want
your org to be.
You have to have people thatbelieve in what you're doing,
that you can repeatedly talk andtalk about it, sell it up, get
(13:45):
people interested in investors.
You have to be able to deal withthe concept of getting told no a
lot, and just deal with therejection.
And you will get told no a lot.
If you can't accept that, youwill have a hard time making an
impact.
And you will go through cycles,and I'm sure you know this very
well, where some days are great,you have a great win.
(14:06):
Then another day you don't get agrant, you don't get a funder,
you don't get a partnership, andthen you go through moments of
do I have enough money to keepgoing?
Do I need another job?
Should I stop?
Oh my God, this is great.
Oh my God, I hate my life.
I don't have enough hours.
So you go through the wholegambit of emotions, and then if
you are lucky, because you know,most boards don't make it more
than five years.
(14:28):
If you are lucky and havefinally gotten traction and
gotten the things you need onpoint, then you'll be able to be
more stable, more readily ableto get those clients, more able
to show impact.
But it usually the first one anda half to two years are the
hardest.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
I mean, what you're speaking into now is is great
because there's a lot ofentrepreneurs who are listening
to this and going, hmm,entrepreneurship and non-profit,
are they the same?
Yes.
And this is my experience, andyou could please speak into this
in a moment.
A non-profit should always betrapped like a business anyway.
(15:06):
A lot of people make a mistakeis because it's a non-profit,
they aren't supposed to earnmoney.
That's not true.
It's complete a false fallacy,and it's been driven because
it's to keep people away fromdoing good in the world and keep
you in that cycle of you mustobey corporate blah blah blah.
What you discovered is thatlittle interim space where you
(15:29):
can go, I want to do good, Ilove what I do, I know my
knowledge base, and I can earnmoney at doing all of the big
things that I love doing andencompass everything while still
learning.
Is that does that about somethis up?
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
That's about accurate.
And I would say the biggestthing is learning where you can
really understand that valueproblem, understanding maybe
only do one thing as much as youwant to do.
You mean you want to do five, doone thing, get really good, and
that's hard because then peoplemight say, Well, what other
programs you have?
I have one because I'm workingto get this to show an impact.
(16:08):
There's no reason to scalewithout showing the impact in
the first thing.
And that's where a lot of peoplego wrong.
You can go chasing and chasing,but confine it to what works,
and then show the impact.
And it's the hardest thing whenyou're starting out.
The other thing when you'rerunning an org that people don't
understand, yes, nonprofitstechnically do not make money,
(16:30):
but that does not mean youcannot earn revenue.
People get so caught on themission.
Yes, mission is part of it.
That's the part that's that'sfree, but you have to also think
how else can you make money?
Can you do consulting throughyour nonprofit?
Yes, you can.
Can you do sales to yournonprofit?
Yes, you can.
So there are other ways to makerevenue.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
I love that.
If you were to give advice toone that one person starting
what you the start who wasstarting five years ago where
you were, what would that advicebe right now?
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
I would really say you have to believe in what
you're doing, because that iswhat will keep you going,
because you will have a lot ofups and downs.
Really focus on one poor thingthat you can do or at least
show, start to show impact.
Really try to at least haveenough funds to make it the
first six months, and thenbefore thinking about another
job, I pushed it to a year and ahalf, which was probably a
(17:25):
mistake.
But at least make sure you havesix months worth of funds, and
then just you know, there'll bea lot of times you want to quit,
you want to stop, but keep goingand try to build a network of
other business leaders,entrepreneurs that can also help
you so you can vent so you cankeep moving forward.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
I love that.
Eugene, we're gonna pause forpart one and go into part two in
a moment.
So everybody listening to this,if this resonates with you,
please share it with a friend.
Eugene's expertise in thenonprofit from going five years
and changing, pivoting intosomething he really enjoys and
values and does good andimpacting the world may change
(18:05):
someone's life.
If you need to reach out to him,all the links are below.
Go and look him, look him up onLinkedIn.
He's heavy on there.
For myself, thank you very muchfor listening.
Please share the message.
Remember, today and always, youare the miracle.
Talk soon.
Welcome back to another episode of Rise from the
Ashes.
I'm Bad Your Host Baz Porter.
I am joined today by an absolutelegend.
He's becoming more of a friendthan actually a work colleague.
His name is Eugene Manley.
He's also a doctor, PhD.
I'm gonna let him explain who heis and what he does.
Whereabouts are you, Eugene?
(00:29):
And what do you do?
Can you tell the world a bitabout who you are?
SPEAKER_00 (00:33):
Good morning, Baz.
As he said, I'm Dr.
Eugene Manley Jr.
And right now I'm based in NewYork City.
But I grew up in Detroit, and Irun a nonprofit called the Sheck
Foundation or SCHEQ, whichstands for STEM and Cancer
Health Equity.
And more broadly, we work toincrease workforce diversity in
(00:54):
STEM fields, getting informationand resources to patients help
them navigate basic medical careand cancer care, and we help
organizations, communityengagement, and trial diversity.
SPEAKER_01 (01:06):
That's a hell of a mouthful.
How did you going back a fewyears ago?
How did you come to doing whatyou're doing now?
What was that journey for you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:15):
That was actually a very interesting story.
If you had asked me five yearsago, I would have never said I
would be running a nonprofit.
It was not remotely on my radar.
But I grew up in Detroit, firstgen inner city, and I just saw
how healthcare was and wasn'tdelivered to my family, and how
they, you know, was struggled toget information.
(01:37):
You know, they couldn't reallyread the my chart notes.
As I went through academia atdifferent levels, I saw they
were happy to have diversescholars at the time, but they
weren't necessarily making surethat we get the grant writing or
the other tools and skills tothen go into academia and
sustain careers.
(01:57):
And then lastly, as Itransitioned to patient
advocacy, but also as did somecaregiving growing up, I just
saw that many underservedpopulations don't get the same
access to information thatmajority populations get.
They don't get the sameinformation about screening,
clinical trials, biomarkers.
And I finally decided that therewas something I needed to
(02:21):
address.
And then I put my brain togetherbecause I'm a mechanical
engineer, a biomedical engineer,animalcular biologist.
And I said, what can I do toactually address some of these
structural issues?
And that sort of laid thefoundation for the launching of
the Chef Foundation.
But if you think of it, we lookat childhood where we see no
(02:42):
people that really look like youin STEM fields.
So I decided how can we givemore information out to kids to
let them know about differentSTEM careers, how to get in
them, what kind of a day in thelife is like, how do we then
help these scholars that are inuniversity or professional
programs navigate their degrees,their degree transitions to get
(03:04):
them in the workforce.
And then lastly, really tryingto simplify the medical
terminology so the patients canunderstand it and be more
empowered to advocate for carethat they're entitled.
I I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
But then they go out into the work into the work
market or the markets and theycan't find one.
Because it's there's justsaturation.
I don't know the dynamics behindit.
This isn't my expertise at all.
What are the challenges you seewith this sort of transition
from university getting highlyqualified and then coming out
(03:50):
into the medical field andfinding there's no work for
them?
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
So there are multiple levels where there are
challenges.
Typically, if you're first gen,often you don't know that
there's an advanced degree oradvanced degrees.
You may not know how to applyfor jobs, you may not know how
to do interviews, and then onceyou get in the workspace,
sometimes you still don'tunderstand that you have to
(04:16):
track a certain way inprofessional environments to
keep a job in advance.
It doesn't necessarily mean it'smay fit with your personality,
but you have to learn how tonavigate those spaces.
But often the biggest challengeis you go get a degree, but
you're only taught about thatdegree, and you're not taught
about what other options thereare.
(04:37):
Typically, undergrads, you go,you're gonna do an engineering
degree.
Okay, do I get a master's or doI just go to work?
Or am I gonna go to med schooland then go to work?
Then the biggest vague spot isthe PhD because people think the
P, yes, the PhD makes you anexpert in one small space, but
so many people misunderstandthat the PhD teaches you problem
(04:57):
solving, critical thinking,writing, perseverance, and these
are skills that can translate tomany other areas.
So so many people don't knowthat you can go into government,
nonprofit, patient advocacy,science writing, science
communication.
Basically, the roles arelimitless with a science degree.
If you don't get so stuffed thatI have a PhD, I must do what my
(05:20):
degree is.
So that's the artist and gettingpeople to understand the degree
gave you the skills to show youcan critically think, but then
you can apply them anywhere, andthat's the biggest gap they
don't have.
But also, academia has a recordof really only teaching you what
you need to do for your degreeor to stay in academia, that
(05:43):
doesn't necessarily help youtranslate that out to jobs that
are outside of academia, so thatalso becomes a challenge for
scholars.
And then if we're looking athiring, well, that's a whole
different hidden caboodle.
You could apply for jobs fordays, but still, unless you
really have someone on theinside that is inside pulling
(06:06):
for you, it is really hard toget past ATS.
And even if you get past it,there's no guarantee you're
still going to get an interview.
And then, at least what I seeunderserved scholars, we have to
try to play this line of okay,we have this question, you know,
name a situation this why areyou leaving this job?
And then you're playing the gameof giving the answers they need
(06:29):
to hear, as opposed to beingable to be truthful because they
they want to know that you'resafe to hire, not necessarily
how great you are.
So you always are trying tobalance that when you're
interviewing, and it's a really,really tough road.
And interviewing is I mean, evenjust applying is frustrating
because you could people sayI've applied for 40 jobs and not
got a call back.
That doesn't that's not areflection of you, it's it is
(06:53):
exhausting and ex and painfuland stressful, and you, I mean,
if not unheard of putting outtwo to three hundred apps before
you get in a couple ofinterviews.
Then sometimes if you're good orlucky, you get them sooner.
But there's no unfortunately,there's no mystery box that's
gonna make you get a fast or getan interview.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
I mean, that's your to me, that sounds like extreme
bias within industries.
I I don't know the industry, soI can't speak into it.
But you mentioned somethingearlier to me, and I want to
come back into what you'resaying now, but you mentioned
something earlier to me aboutfive years ago, you wouldn't
believe you were doing thistoday.
What led you to that five-yearpoint a few years ago and going,
(07:36):
well, what was the lead up tothat, and why did you change the
whole structure of your basiclife and what you did, your
identity?
SPEAKER_00 (07:45):
Well, I've always been a unique individual and
I've always done things outsidethe box.
I've never stayed within a box,really never have.
And so I've always been justwilling to explore and do
different things.
And I saw my education as everydegree was a chance to get
different tools and skills.
So my undergrad was just gettingthe engineering degree, my
(08:07):
master's was getting thebiomedical engineering and
biomechanics, the PhD wasgetting the cancer work in the
molecular biology.
Then there was this phase whereI wanted to be a professor to
study cancers that metastasizethe bone.
So I started doing work in bonebiology, biomechanics, arsenic,
and do carcinogenesis and likesignaling cascades and cancer,
(08:29):
and then breast cancer imaging.
But then I finally hit the pointwhere I said I was getting tired
of being underpaid as a postdoc.
And then as you do, and what youdon't know going in is your PhD
is the best time for you to geta job.
Finish the degree, get a job.
If you go into postdocs, eventhough you're a professional at
that point, every year in apostdoc means you still are
(08:54):
considered a trainee.
So if you go to apply for anindustry job, those years of
postdocing don't count, soyou're just losing professional
years.
I know that sounds crazy.
So I postdoc seven plus yearsand they don't count.
You don't get professionalcredit, so you're still starting
at scientists or assistantscientists zero.
(09:14):
So it's like if you know you'renot going to send it, get out as
soon as you can.
Have the market will be hard toget a job.
So I would tell people,especially in the biological
sciences, it is okay to go to astartup because the goal is just
to start getting professionalexperience because they count
years of doing stuff.
So just get any company and do ayear or two, even if you jump
(09:36):
this, keep moving.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
I love that advice.
I mean, people go in there andgo stagnate into stagnation, not
just in your field, but in a lotof fields.
They go into stagnation of I'lljust do it because I know this
is safe.
And they're in this box of oh, Iknow what I'm doing here, but
when they go hit the real worldand they want to transition,
suddenly they can't.
(09:59):
Because they have this, oh,you've done this, but it doesn't
count.
It's like what you just saidreset to zero.
How did you navigate some ofthis?
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
I was always just driven, motivated, and I never
let systems tell me what I couldor couldn't do.
Some have tried, but I'm verystubborn and very independent.
And so if I ever get to a pointwhere I'm not going to be
allowed to do the things that Ithink will have the best impact,
and I don't have a rationalreason for why they're being
(10:32):
inhibited, then I will leave.
You don't have to stay and bemiserable.
You don't have to stay whenpeople are disrespecting.
You don't have to stay whenthey're playing favorites.
You you will see this a lot.
You mean sometimes you have tostay because you need a job, but
don't let a job be the reasonyou get run down into the ground
and then start doubtingyourself.
(10:52):
So I use, I think all jobs, youshould get skills from every job
you have, the good or bad.
You can take theseinterstellars.
Ah, this is something I can doassimilate all my skills.
(11:13):
Like I still am a re technicallya researcher.
I can still do biomechanics, Ican still understand cancer, but
now I do a lot more patienteducation, patient advocacy.
But also, I've always been acommunicator and a talker.
So I just combine all this stuffinto one.
It wasn't that I thought aboutit, just okay, I have to add
this.
I've got grant management, I'vegot science writing, I know how
to advocate.
(11:34):
I've literally seen whathealthcare doesn't look like.
What can we do to helppopulations that don't really
readily have access toinformation and resources?
So that's the long version ofsort of how I launched the
nonprofit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
I love that.
I mean, it's trial by fire,basically.
You've gone through a series ofchallenges overcoming them, and
then you've learned how tonavigate a system which is
slightly uh largely outdatedbecause of the bias towards what
they knew about three, fourhundred years ago, and it still
(12:07):
goes on.
We go into classrooms today,even in the schools, and they
indoctrinate people to sit incertain ways when they do the
exams.
It's the same thing.
There has there's no model beenupdated to fit the environment
which it is today.
Correct, and and there's a wholething behind that that I won't
go into on live on air for athousand reasons.
(12:29):
I like my podcast, I like it tobe led, and you know, I don't
want to get shut down.
But anyway, what as when youentered entrepreneurship,
Eugene, how was that transitionfor you?
Because it entrepreneurs is justlike living on a roller coaster
constantly until you get yousomeone once said to me, You
can't be efficient or you can'tbe effective if you're not
(12:52):
efficient.
So, this this aspect ofentrepreneurship is that roller
coaster, it's gettingcomfortable with being
uncomfortable.
How has that journey been foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (13:04):
So interesting.
Some people don't understand it,but launching a nonprofit is the
same as entrepreneurship.
The challenges are the same.
It's you know, what's yourmission?
What's your product?
What's your value proposition?
What are you trying to do?
How are you going to fundraise?
Eventually, how are you going tostaff?
(13:24):
How are you going to scale?
These are universal issues foranyone that's under you have to
one, be some kind of visionary.
You don't have to be a visionaryleader, but you have to have
some kind of vision that you cansort of shape into what you want
your org to be.
You have to have people thatbelieve in what you're doing,
that you can repeatedly talk andtalk about it, sell it up, get
(13:45):
people interested in investors.
You have to be able to deal withthe concept of getting told no a
lot, and just deal with therejection.
And you will get told no a lot.
If you can't accept that, youwill have a hard time making an
impact.
And you will go through cycles,and I'm sure you know this very
well, where some days are great,you have a great win.
(14:06):
Then another day you don't get agrant, you don't get a funder,
you don't get a partnership, andthen you go through moments of
do I have enough money to keepgoing?
Do I need another job?
Should I stop?
Oh my God, this is great.
Oh my God, I hate my life.
I don't have enough hours.
So you go through the wholegambit of emotions, and then if
you are lucky, because you know,most boards don't make it more
than five years.
(14:28):
If you are lucky and havefinally gotten traction and
gotten the things you need onpoint, then you'll be able to be
more stable, more readily ableto get those clients, more able
to show impact.
But it usually the first one anda half to two years are the
hardest.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
I mean, what you're speaking into now is is great
because there's a lot ofentrepreneurs who are listening
to this and going, hmm,entrepreneurship and non-profit,
are they the same?
Yes.
And this is my experience, andyou could please speak into this
in a moment.
A non-profit should always betrapped like a business anyway.
(15:06):
A lot of people make a mistakeis because it's a non-profit,
they aren't supposed to earnmoney.
That's not true.
It's complete a false fallacy,and it's been driven because
it's to keep people away fromdoing good in the world and keep
you in that cycle of you mustobey corporate blah blah blah.
What you discovered is thatlittle interim space where you
(15:29):
can go, I want to do good, Ilove what I do, I know my
knowledge base, and I can earnmoney at doing all of the big
things that I love doing andencompass everything while still
learning.
Is that does that about somethis up?
SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
That's about accurate.
And I would say the biggestthing is learning where you can
really understand that valueproblem, understanding maybe
only do one thing as much as youwant to do.
You mean you want to do five, doone thing, get really good, and
that's hard because then peoplemight say, Well, what other
programs you have?
I have one because I'm workingto get this to show an impact.
(16:08):
There's no reason to scalewithout showing the impact in
the first thing.
And that's where a lot of peoplego wrong.
You can go chasing and chasing,but confine it to what works,
and then show the impact.
And it's the hardest thing whenyou're starting out.
The other thing when you'rerunning an org that people don't
understand, yes, nonprofitstechnically do not make money,
(16:30):
but that does not mean youcannot earn revenue.
People get so caught on themission.
Yes, mission is part of it.
That's the part that's that'sfree, but you have to also think
how else can you make money?
Can you do consulting throughyour nonprofit?
Yes, you can.
Can you do sales to yournonprofit?
Yes, you can.
So there are other ways to makerevenue.
SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
I love that.
If you were to give advice toone that one person starting
what you the start who wasstarting five years ago where
you were, what would that advicebe right now?
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
I would really say you have to believe in what
you're doing, because that iswhat will keep you going,
because you will have a lot ofups and downs.
Really focus on one poor thingthat you can do or at least
show, start to show impact.
Really try to at least haveenough funds to make it the
first six months, and thenbefore thinking about another
job, I pushed it to a year and ahalf, which was probably a
(17:25):
mistake.
But at least make sure you havesix months worth of funds, and
then just you know, there'll bea lot of times you want to quit,
you want to stop, but keep goingand try to build a network of
other business leaders,entrepreneurs that can also help
you so you can vent so you cankeep moving forward.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
I love that.
Eugene, we're gonna pause forpart one and go into part two in
a moment.
So everybody listening to this,if this resonates with you,
please share it with a friend.
Eugene's expertise in thenonprofit from going five years
and changing, pivoting intosomething he really enjoys and
values and does good andimpacting the world may change
(18:05):
someone's life.
If you need to reach out to him,all the links are below.
Go and look him, look him up onLinkedIn.
He's heavy on there.
For myself, thank you very muchfor listening.
Please share the message.
Remember, today and always, youare the miracle.
Talk soon.
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