December 3, 2024 • 35 mins
Join host Frank Morphis III and special guest Terrence O'Hanlon, CEO of Reliabilityweb, as they dive deep into building a culture of reliability and the future of asset management. With over 40 years of experience, O'Hanlon shares invaluable insights on integrating new technologies with fundamental maintenance practices, addressing the challenges of data quality and embracing AI in industrial operations. The conversation explores how organizations can create effective asset management programs while balancing risk and opportunity. O'Hanlon also discusses the upcoming 2024 International Maintenance Conference (IMC) and shares his vision for the future of reliability leadership. Whether you're a maintenance professional, reliability engineer or asset manager, this episode offers practical wisdom on navigating the evolving landscape of industrial reliability and maintenance excellence.
Produced by Diego Galvez and Oscar Diaz, Digital Communications at ABS Group.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And that's where we say culture really plays a role.
You can turn the risk to mediumrisk, you can turn it down to
low risk, you can turn it up tohigh risk, based on these things
that we're talking about.
So don't think that justbecause you're not dealing with
your data quality that you don'thave risk.
Your risk is already there.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to the Risk Matters podcast.
My name is Frank Morfis and I'myour host.
In each episode of this podcast, we uncover why effective risk
management is fundamental inprotecting people, strengthening
businesses and sustainingindustries.
Our focus today is on buildinga culture of reliability,
whether that's throughtechnology, training or
transformation within anorganization and our goal today
(00:49):
is to provide insights intocreating a culture that
prioritizes reliability andmaintenance excellence
throughout the organization whatwe like to say from the top
down.
I've got a very special guestwith me today.
I would like to welcomeTerrence O'Hanlon.
Terrence O'Hanlon is the CEO ofReliabilityWeb.
I think for most of those thatare probably listening to, this
(01:10):
needs no introduction, butTerrence has over 40 years of
experience as a reliabilityleader.
With his innovative work withUptime Elements Framework, he's
transformed the industry, makinghim a key influencer and an
expert in asset management, inreliability and in operational
excellence.
Terrence thank you so much forjoining us today.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Really great to be here.
I've been an admirer of yourcompany since I started and
learned a lot from theapproaches of the experts that
you have on your team, so it'sbeen a really great relationship
.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Absolutely, and I think that we do the same.
There's a lot of going back andforth on LinkedIn that we've
seen right, and it's great tojust watch the things that you
do and really work together in asocial platform and through
things like IMC.
I think that before we diveinto this podcast today a very
hot topic throughout theindustry, something that we're
(02:05):
pushing pretty hard and we knowyou are as well but IMC is right
around the corner.
How is preparation going forthat?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, we're going into the 38th year for the
International MaintenanceConference.
I believe it's the longestrunning maintenance conference
anywhere and the only year itdidn't happen, of course, was
during the COVID year 2020.
But it's going great.
(02:32):
When we first started, theysaid you can't do a maintenance
conference at a beach, no one'sgoing to get permission to go.
You can't do a maintenanceconference in December no one
will be able to come aroundChristmas and holiday time and I
remember the first year we didabout 550 people showing up and
it's been growing, you know,ever since then.
So we have, I think, 25 or 30countries that are engaged and
(02:55):
coming.
You know I love the opening ofthis podcast.
You know where you're focusingon risk, both in terms of
something that can be negative,but also something, if companies
manage it right, that canreally be opportunity.
So a lot of that's in thedecision making and the strategy
and the planning, you know, andnot that it doesn't have
(03:15):
anything to do with the specificassets.
Of course it does.
But there's a business side tomaintenance as well, and I think
you know your firm has alwaysbrought that sort of overall
business.
Look, because you do much morethan maintenance and reliability
and asset management.
That's what we try to do aswell is there is a you know you
make investments in assets.
(03:36):
They're expensive, it's like alot of your cash and you're
making these assets and you wantto.
You want the assets to producewell and of course, it's very
exciting.
You build a new facility, thepoliticians and the executives
come and cut the ribbon, but nowyou got to take care of it for
the next 25 years or 30 years,and that's where some of the
maybe you could say no fun part,because no one's cutting the
(03:58):
ribbon, because you need tolubricate the bearing.
You know, all the hard workcomes.
So we like to celebrate thisgroup that comes to IMC because
really, what's the job at theend of the day?
Make sure the plant doesn't.
No downtime, no injuries, noenvironmental incidents.
In other words, make a boringday, and in our business and in
(04:22):
Western society in general, noone chases you down in the
parking lot and says, wow,thanks, today was so boring.
Nothing happened today.
But in reality, that is the goalof the people you serve and the
people we serve and we want to.
We want to celebrate thatyou're here.
Nothing happened.
You can be here because youhave proactivity back at your
(04:42):
plant.
You can be here because youhave proactivity back at your
plant.
You can come to a conferenceand we can celebrate you and you
can meet all kinds of solutionproviders and technology
providers.
It's just a super excitingexperience for me.
I'll say one more thing.
I grew up in a family of eightkids where we were the small
family of all the cousins, 13and 14 over here, and our
(05:04):
Thanksgivings were like 150people.
It was like a mini conferenceand that is where I learned how
to host large crowds.
So to IMC is kind of likecoming to Thanksgiving at the
old Hamlin house as I wasgrowing up.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I love it, and it's Thanksgiving in Marco Island
right, so you can't beat that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, it does help, it does help.
I will say the place helps melook good.
It does look good.
Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
No, thank you for that, and I think, a lot of what
you touched on there and thegoals that you guys have with
this conference.
They really align with some ofthe things that I want to talk
about today.
Some of the questions that Ithink we've seen at ABS
Consulting, some of thequestions that we get asked
pretty regularly, and they'retypical throughout the industry.
Right, I don't think it matterswho you are as a service
provider, what services youprovide or what kind of
(05:52):
organization you are.
The industrial organizationsare all dealing with the same
things, right?
When it comes to reliability,when it comes to new technology
or existing technology andsystems in place, right, or
systems of consideration.
So I've gone back and forth onreally where to position some of
these questions, and the firstone for me is looking at the
(06:14):
integration of new technologiesinto systems.
Right, there's so many thingsout there.
I've got a question on AI foryou here in a little bit, right.
But when people start to lookat new technology and how to
integrate that technology withfundamental maintenance
practices right, the ultimategoal is to enhance overall
effectiveness and prevent futureissues, right, can you take a
(06:38):
spin at that for me?
I know you've probably seen alot of folks with outdated
systems and equipment youtouched on it a minute ago but
how are you seeing the best wayto integrate technology into
maintenance practices for?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
success.
Well, there's a couple ofthings I'd unpack there.
The first one's the bigelephant in the room data.
I love maintainers andreliability teams and asset
management teams, but we are gotto look ourselves in the mirror
.
We are bad at data and becauseour, because the assets over
(07:17):
here, the technicians over hereand our IT system is over here
in our application, 50 percentof reliabilityiabilityWeb's
audience so we think we've got apretty advanced audience can't
get a work order on a mobiledevice today, in 2024.
You know, imagine hiring.
You know some 28-year-old andyou're giving them a stack of
(07:38):
work orders.
You know paper work orders butthat when you have that manual
data collection, it takes a lotof work to do data governance
correctly and you can't reallyleverage these technologies
without the proper dataunderpinning, so to speak.
So there's one thing I'll justjump up and down about Our
(07:59):
research shows that the overalltrust in asset data is 60%.
I mean, if you only had a 60%trust in your financial data of
your company, you know your CFOwould be fired, right the thing
it wouldn't be allowed, itwouldn't be permitted.
So that's one.
Get your data house in order.
Easier said than done, you know, because you have all kinds of
(08:21):
issues of implementation,adoption.
And I love that you all arebringing cybersecurity into the
conversation because wetypically ignore it.
We want to be unbridled.
You know, that's why I get sofreaked out around us, because
we just, you know, we just wantto go out and do the job kind of
a thing, and we don't want tobe locked down.
Well, it's a dangerous world,not that we have to be locked
(08:44):
down, but we have to do thingsright and I really appreciate
that.
Your company sort of putting ina framework.
I know it's not a funconversation, but we have to
make sure we're secure.
So the second part of itsecurity, trust.
We call it trustworthiness.
You know that the system'strustworthy and you're not going
to violate or hurt the companyby using it.
It's all secure.
(09:05):
And then it comes down to thepeople.
You know, does it make theirjob easier?
Does it make their job harder?
They'll do a little bit ofharder work if it improves
performance.
But if it makes their jobharder and it's not really
affecting performance, adoptionreally slows and that's one
reason why the data doesn't comein and things of that nature.
(09:26):
So it's not an easy answer.
I will say I love the questionbecause I think it's something
we have to solve.
We've we've been a greatcommunity.
I don't want to say withouttechnology.
We've always had technology butwe haven't used it, we haven't
leveraged it like other parts ofour companies have, like
(09:46):
accounting and sales andmarketing and supply chain, and
we can't.
There's no reason why we can't.
And so we need to pull together,get those case studies where it
really worked and what thesecret sauce was you know out
front.
And that's why what we try todo at IMC we must cross the
technology threshold here,because it's safer, it's more
(10:08):
secure, it's more successful,it's just smart business.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
It makes me think a little bittoo.
It's really twofold when youtalk about the workforce, right,
the existing workforce or thosethat maybe haven't relied as
heavily on technology as some ofthe newer age would like to
today or is trying to with theadvancements we've mentioned.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Ai right, there's my second mention of AI so far in
this discussion.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
But when you look at some of those folks right, the
loss of technical expertise, aspeople are starting to retire
from organizations that'sdifficult to replace, right?
Or simply making strategyadjustments.
When you look at the workforceand a lot of the organizations
that we work with, they don'thave time to step away from the
shop floor.
They don't have time to stepaway and look at these capital
(11:00):
projects or these largeimplementations, and it's
oftentimes looked at asdifficult, right?
What are some of the thingsthat you are seeing reliability
leaders do, or some suggestionsthat you have for reliability
leaders to make improvements totheir operations?
Well, and how do you increaseadoption?
(11:21):
I guess it's a good question,right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Well, constancy, constancy, constancy, constancy.
You're going to get some thingsright, You're going to get some
things wrong.
Just keep putting one foot infront of the other and going.
You're going to meet people atIMC that have been on this
journey 10 years, 15 years andstaying with the same company,
sometimes staying in the sameposition, and that constancy of
(11:47):
purpose, as Deming called it, isnot to be underlooked.
Time, it's like putting moneyin a savings account.
It compounds over time yourcontinual effort towards a true
north over time.
That's the winning math Tryingto do it in three months and
closing out the project andgetting adoption, or nine months
(12:11):
, or a year or whatever.
Of course we're going to haveprojects that come up, but
reliability is not a project.
Reliability is how you dobusiness.
You may have projects withinreliability to help advance the
performance of things, but youreally need to have it as the
way you think, the way you dobusiness.
We have a rule that how thingsoccur to you, how it's in your
(12:34):
brain, is how you perform it.
So with our, with our training,we work in changing how it's in
your brain, how you think aboutit, because we know we can
change how you think about itabout where it fits in the
overall organizational picture.
You'll make those journeys andthen you'll get it right more
often than you get it wrong.
But even when you get it wrong,you correct the course.
(12:55):
You know, and you do so withintegrity and authenticity.
And you know you do so withtransparency and you move
forward.
You just keep moving forward.
There is no real secret.
There is no archaeological dig.
We're waiting for the silverbullet here.
It's a lot of hard work andit's a lot of things coming
together and coordinating all atthe same time, and it is not a
(13:17):
maintenance function.
That's like trying to saymaintenance is responsible for
safety.
Maintenance plays a big role insafety and we want to keep our
maintainers safe.
But the whole company plays arole.
Every person plays a role insafety.
I could make the argument thatevery person also plays a role
in reliability.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love that and I think youmade a good point too there in
two responses.
Right With with the, with theloss of some of that technical
expertise, or the potential lossof some of that technical
expertise, it is crucial todocument those things, not only
documenting processes butexperiences right for the folks
(13:55):
that have been in thoseorganizations for 10, 15, 20
years and have learned and grownand really developed, the
beginning stages or the currentstate of whatever asset
management plan is in place.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Right, we're clearly aging out.
Right, we're, we're clearlyaging out.
You know, the, the, the, theolder workers who maybe weren't
so great at documentingeverything you know, are
retiring.
They're heading, all headingdown to Florida and you know,
faster than we're replacing theknowledge.
We still have people coming up,but there are people without
(14:31):
that knowledge that the 20, 30year, you know, veterans had, um
, it's a, it's a tough solution,it's a tough situation because
we don't have a lot of greatsolutions.
I am all in on ai, yeah, and ifI had some older workers that
were getting ready to retire, Iwould be sitting them down with
the gen ai model training,absolutely that gen AI model
(14:51):
training, that gen AI model onwhat they know ASAP, you know,
and AI is not the answer toeverything, but it's got some
amazing features of capturingknowledge.
You know, we're seeing.
We're sort of seeing AI.
You know machine learning, ifyou want, at the condition
monitoring level vibrationsensors and oil sensors and
temperature sensors and things,and that's pretty sensors and
(15:13):
oil sensors and temperaturesensors and things, and that's
getting pretty standardizedWireless sensors all throughout
sending up to the internet andthe machine learning sort of
managing the alarms and theconditions and doing some
advisory.
We're seeing sort of thismiddle layer where they're doing
sort of the statistical andprocess-oriented reliability,
facilitating failure modes andeffects analysis, facilitating
(15:36):
RCM and things of that nature.
And then we're seeing this GenAI as sort of the knowledge base
being able to have a humanconversation with your data in
context, which is superinteresting.
I mean I love it.
I'm training a lot of differentkinds of agents right now and I
just find it fine.
(15:58):
I know everyone reallycomplains about open AI and
hallucinations and all that kindof stuff.
I really a lot of.
It has to do with the way youask the questions and if you
don't like the answer, you tellthem to ask the question again.
There's just a lot of potential.
Don't be afraid of it, you know.
Start embracing it.
It's going to be in almostevery application that you're
(16:20):
ever going to use on thecomputer.
If it's not already, it's goingto be soon, you know.
So whatever you're using forwork orders, whatever you're
using for planning, scheduling,will be supported by AI.
So start learning.
Don't be afraid of it, althoughthere is a lot to be afraid of
with AI.
Learn it.
Learn it so you're informed andyour people can be informed.
(16:42):
There's a cliche.
You know I'm not going to losemy job to AI.
I'm going to lose my job tosomebody who knows how to do my
job with AI, right.
So that's why you should belearning AI, because you don't
want to get replaced by somebodywho knows how to use AI to do
what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You should learn how to use AI to do what you do,
sure, and AI is obviously notnew.
I think that, right now, thebiggest thing that we're seeing
is it's being utilizedsuccessfully, right, and there
are, there are organizations,there are applications right,
that are starting I think youmentioned it that are starting
to embed the AI capability intosomething as simple as WorkWorks
(17:20):
, right, and a lot of thingswhere it can be used fairly
seamlessly, as you mentioned, ifdone correctly and if, for lack
of a better phrase taught bythose experts that know exactly
what they're implementing intotheir systems by those experts
that know exactly what they'reimplementing into their systems,
instead of a computer systembeeping at you because you
didn't fill out a field orsomething.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Imagine a nice calming voice.
Maybe you should considerfilling in the notes.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And kind of encouraging you to do it the
right way, rather than you knowyou can't save it and you can,
you know all that kind of stuff,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think we all prefer to be talked to that way, right
or corrected in that manner,rather than the slap on the hand
or the loud yell yeah.
Last question that I have, onAI, I think, but I know that
even at Maximal World, masteringAI was a big topic and you're
speaking with folks about thisall the time.
I'm sure that at IMC it will bea big topic of discussion there
(18:19):
as well.
What's the feedback that you'regetting from audiences?
I think you shared a lot ofyour feelings and I've done the
same, and we're very excited,and I know a lot of folks that
are.
Are you getting that generalconsensus from the audience?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, I think what we're getting a couple of things
.
The theme at IMC is intelligentreliability leadership, and
what we mean by that is sort ofAI combined with leadership.
So the human and the AI, but ahuman who's empowered as a
leader.
I think.
A couple of just quickresponses off the top of my head
(18:55):
.
The data a lot of companies arehitting the wall.
They have the money, they canbuy the technology, they got the
contacts, the right technologycompany, but when you let AI go
crazy on your data, it comesback on you know you know, it's
like you're creatingFrankenstein they're hitting
walls with the data.
(19:16):
Now, I think AI is going to be abig tool in fixing all of the
data that we have in thisindustry as well, and I think
people are going to be embracingit.
We're sort of at.
You know, any change,especially in maintenance,
reliability and asset management, takes a long time.
So we've got people who aresort of knocking at the door.
We've got people who've alreadypiloted, you know, a to Z,
(19:40):
vibration analysis or some othersystem that contains AI, and
they've done it successfully,just maybe not at scale.
Others that are doing it withtheir like you say, their EAM
and their work orders and thingsof that nature.
Very few have made it throughall the way to you know, scaling
, where you could say, wow,that's digital transformation.
They've transformed their wholeyou know, maintenance operation
(20:03):
based on AI.
But it's coming.
You know it's in the nextcouple of years.
Smart companies like IBM theygot a whole R&D, watson X and
IFS has AI built into the system.
All of the modern like MaintainX and those type of CMMSs have
(20:26):
AI components to it.
So you know it's kind of comingwith the meal, so to speak.
When you buy a vibrationapplication, the AI is going to
come with it.
When you are, or you do it as aservice, the AI is going to be
there.
So dive in.
You know you don't necessarilyhave to be the first one to cut
(20:47):
your way through the jungle.
That's what we're trying to doat IMC for you, so you can have
some paths to follow of otherpeople who succeeded.
And the thing I love about IMCwe have people come and tell us
about their failures, whichoftentimes is more valuable than
the successes.
We can all learn from thefailures and what not to do
sometimes is as valuable as whatto do, and we're learning as a
(21:09):
community together.
You know your team adding thisIT kind of ITOT I guess they
call it information technologyand the operational technology
coming together with a blanketof cybersecurity.
I think that's been one of theproblems is the security.
So I'm really glad to see youall addressing that.
Problems is the security.
(21:31):
So I'm really glad to see youall addressing that.
It's all in the.
It's not like you said, it'snot new, it's been here for a
long time.
But the potential to make theapplication scale, that's what's
new.
And we have to get our house inorder.
We have to get our data housein order.
We have to get our devices inorder.
We have to get our software upto date and do all the security
(21:52):
patches and things of thatnature.
So we have to add somediscipline that we've been able
to engineer our way out of inthe past, you know, because we
have great engineering inreliability.
But, ok, great, we have greatengineering.
You can do amazing thingswithout a lot of data.
Wonderful, congratulations.
(22:13):
We'll create a new award forthat.
But let's use the data thatwe've got and let's collect it
better, let's make it moreaccurate, let's put it in, let's
know what we're trying to getto so that that data can work
for us.
The companies that get to theother side of the data river are
going to go so fast that datacan work for us.
The companies that get to theother side of the data river are
going to go so fast thatthey'll be buying the companies
(22:35):
that don't, because they'll beable to operate with margins
that the other companies won'tbe able to compete with.
So move to the other side of theriver.
Yes, there are a few crocodilesin the river, but move to the
other side before everybody elsedoes.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, I think the last thing that I'll add here,
before we move on, is that itseems that most application or
your EAM providers areestablishing this or the AI
capabilities as opportunity.
Right, it's not forced, it'sopportunity to grow.
It's opportunity to havesomething that can help you
tremendously grow with you.
Right, and, like you said, ittakes time.
It's not a quick fix.
(23:10):
It's not something to implementinto an organization in a
matter of weeks or months.
It's something that encouragesyou to improve your data, to
improve your processes and toget to the point of success that
is different at everyorganization, but shares similar
qualities.
Obviously.
Awesome, I appreciate that.
That's exciting.
(23:31):
The last thing that I reallywant to touch on is strategic
asset management and saying that, right, we could spend another
hour and a half here, probablysignificantly longer, and we
won't.
But two of the biggestquestions that I have for you
when we're talking abouttechnology and we're talking new
age, can you explain theimportance of a comprehensive
(23:54):
asset management program?
But, more than anything, how orwhy it's important that that
integrates seamlessly with yourEAM application and your
reliability programs.
How do those things play oneach other?
What successes are you seeing?
Obviously, we can get intoinventory and lifecycle strategy
and organizational preparationright, but what is your take on
(24:18):
that?
What is the importance of thosethings really working together?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Well, I think it's super critical.
Asset management is acoordinated set of activities.
A coordinated set of activitiesto realize value from the
assets.
Well, how does that happen inmost companies?
Well, a group of smartengineers specify and design.
A group of smart purchasingpeople procure and build.
(24:42):
A group of smart commissioningengineers commission it.
Then a group of smart operatingengineers operate it.
A group of smart maintenanceengineers maintain it.
But they're doing so withoutthat coordination.
They're doing so because inWestern society we do
departments and becausepurchasing does purchasing
(25:03):
better than maintainers do,maintainers do better than
purchasing does.
So it makes sense to have thesedepartments.
Sometimes we suboptimize forthe company.
The company's got one set ofgoals, one set of objectives,
and they really expect us in thedepartments to align.
But what's the vehicle to alignon?
(25:24):
A specification thatmaintenance isn't going to see
for six years, because it'sgoing to take that long to build
the asset or a design that youknow that they're not going to
see for multiple years?
A lot of maintenance operationsare busy, they're overburdened,
they're understaffed and theydon't have time to go in a
meeting that's going to affectthem six years from now.
(25:44):
They don't have the resourcesto do that.
You know, or maybe not even theinterest in doing it, and
either do the people in theprojects.
Because they want to, they'regetting measured by how fast
they move, how quick they stayon schedule and how they stay on
budget.
It's the wrong set of metrics.
So, unless you it, I shouldn'tsay that.
I don't want to condemn thosemetrics.
(26:06):
It's great to be on time and onbudget.
I don't want to condemn thosemetrics.
It's great to be on time and onbudget, but if you do that at
the cost of a later assetlifecycle, your total cost of
ownership of that asset is goingto go through the roof
unnecessarily.
Unnecessarily.
And it's not just cost, it'ssafety.
It's not just safety, it'ssustainability.
So it's really affecting almostevery aspect of your business
(26:28):
sustainability.
So you know it's reallyaffecting almost every aspect of
your business.
So the challenge, though, is howdo you coordinate decisions
across the specification phase,the design phase, the build and
purchase phase, thecommissioning phase, the operate
phase, the maintain phase, theimprove phase, because
everybody's got differentdecisions that are driving them.
(26:49):
Some people are interested inthis today, some people are
interested in this week.
Some people are interested inthis month.
Some people are interested inthis year.
Some people are interested inthis quarter century.
You know you build a bridge,you better have a long plan for
that bridge.
So coordinating the decisionsthat are made on the daily,
(27:10):
weekly, monthly, annual quartercentury is difficult, and that's
the value that asset managementbrings.
It's sort of a layer betweenwhat top management wants and
then down in the operationalzone where decisions can be made
that benefit the organizationin the long run.
You know we may decide that wedon't want the long run benefit,
(27:33):
we're going to take the shortbenefit.
We may decide we want the longbenefit, not the short benefit.
We may mix them, but in eithercase the decisions are
intentional and they're drivenby policy and they're driven by
a business strategy and they'redriven by a business plan.
So it's important that everybodysort of go up and work at that
layer too, in addition to theirdepartmental layers that they're
(27:56):
at and I know that was probablygeeky and long winded, it's
hard to explain that part of thebusiness, but we call it a
decision layer.
It's a layer that'sspecifically to coordinate and
make decisions and it's whereyou know if you don't have an
asset management policy then youprobably don't have an asset
(28:17):
management system that Frank istalking about.
You know, and if you don't havea strategic plan, multi-year
strategic plan, you probablydon't have that layer that I'm
referring to here.
So that's the hard part is,when you go to't have that layer
that I'm referring to here.
So that's the hard part is whenyou go to management and say,
hey, we have to add a new layerof bureaucracy in the company,
they're like, nah, don't thinkso, and it doesn't really have
(28:39):
to be bureaucratic, it can beeffective and efficient.
Public utilities are doing itbecause they have this water
utility has the tax or the ratepayer, taxpayer's money.
They have a responsibility.
So they're becoming transparentwith their decisions.
I think eventually it will workits way in a bigger way into
(29:01):
industry.
It's going to start with thepublic and the tax and the and
the defense industries and allthat kind of stuff that are more
accountable to you and me ascitizens, so to speak.
But then it'll work its wayinto private because I firmly
believe and I think your companydoes too it's just good, smart
business to coordinate those bigdecisions that can drive cost
(29:22):
and safety and success.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Absolutely, and not geeky at all.
I think that's exactly whatwe're looking for, but
organizations are focusing onand they need to know how to get
there and organizations likeyourself and ABS Consulting.
That's what we're trying tohelp them understand the
different pieces of it, I'll doyou one, better than what you
think is your geeky response,and we typically have one big
(29:55):
key takeaway from our podcastright, and that's that there's
never a bad time to start right.
Wherever you are in yourreliability journey, wherever
you are in your technologyadoption process right within an
organization, there's never abad time to start right.
Maturity, size, data quality Ithink you mentioned data quality
(30:16):
a number of times, but they'renot barriers right, they're not
barriers in implementing anasset management framework.
You have to start where you are.
You have to start where you'velived, whether it's been over
the last couple of days ormonths or years right, you have
to find that starting point andwhat that end goal may look like
, it's going to deviate fromthat path.
It's going to change.
(30:36):
New things are going to beimplemented, like AI, and when
those things are adopted, Ithink that that's the process or
the roadmap that you and Iwould, both in our organizations
would suggest people to focuson.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Well, and you opened with this statement about risk
and where it fits in thebusiness and think about it like
a knob.
That's where we say culturereally plays a role.
You can turn the risk to mediumrisk, you can turn it down to
low risk, you can turn it up tohigh risk, based on these things
that we're talking about.
So don't think that justbecause you're not dealing with
(31:16):
your data quality that you don'thave risk.
Your risk is already there.
You can reduce the risk byimproving the data quality.
Now it doesn't mean you don'thave to go all the way up to
zero risk, because it costs youa fortune to have that kind of,
that kind of data quality.
But you can find what's rightfor your business.
If you're if you're you knowyou're building nuclear power
(31:36):
plants, you might want to reducethe risk a little bit.
If you're building frozen bagelpizzas, you might be able to
turn it down a little bit, youknow, and make it appropriate
for the business.
Remember, risk is negative andit can cause negative
consequences.
Risk can have positive, it canbe called opportunity.
Risk on the positive side iscalled opportunity and we have a
(31:59):
lot of opportunity to gain withasset management, with
reliability approaches and withbetter maintenance management,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
That's awesome, I love it.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Opportunity.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think is the motto for this one right, I like it.
The last thing super shortquestion.
I imagine short answer as well,but you know everybody's
starting to come up with theirmottos for new year 2025.
What is yours?
What is your hashtag for INC?
What is your hashtag for 2025?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Well, we're finishing 25 years of business this year,
so I see we'll cap off our 25thyear and that has been a
collection of the industry'sbody of knowledge.
Now we've taken that body ofknowledge, we've been practicing
it for about 15 years and weplan to the next 25 years to
(32:48):
well, really, what it's about,what our 25 plan is, is launch
the next 25 years, puteverything in place so that we
have the next 25 years.
It's different than the first25 years.
We're really at a demarcation,at Reliability, web, where we're
going, and a lot of it iscaused by AI I won't go into all
that here Both the risks andthe opportunities for every
(33:10):
aspect of our business.
So, as a result of that, we'vemade a different plan for the
next 25 years and I'm superexcited about it.
So I would say it's future, it'sthe future, it's being not
afraid, and this is a goodmessage.
Like you were talking about it.
Don't be afraid to start.
Would I like to be in adifferent place?
Of course, every business wouldlike to be in a different place
(33:33):
and it's in right now, but I'mstarting the journey for the
next 25 years.
Don't be afraid to reinventyourself.
Don't be afraid to go away fromthe model that may have served
you well and worked well, butthere are new opportunities.
Reinvent yourself and takeadvantage of these new
opportunities.
It's great Hashtag don't beafraid.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
right, I love it.
Terrence, thank you so much forjoining the podcast today.
It's been an absolute pleasureto talk through things with you.
I hope that we continue to dothis, learning from your
experiences, your key insightsin risk and asset management.
We're super excited abouteverything that you're doing
right now and look forward toseeing you at INC in a few weeks
(34:12):
.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
We are too.
We're very much looking forwardto it.
I appreciate the opportunity tobe on the show Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Thanks.
So there you have it, folks.
As we continue this RiskMatters podcast journey, I
encourage you to join us.
I hear from many longtimeexperts and up and coming
experts in the industry.
Until next time, I'm FrankNorthes.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You've been listening to Risk Matters X.0, a podcast
focused on all things risk andwhy it matters to the people,
businesses and industries thatsustain our world.
Follow Risk Matters X.0 on yourfavorite podcast app and leave
us a review.
Thanks for tuning in.
And that's where we say culture really plays a role.
You can turn the risk to mediumrisk, you can turn it down to
low risk, you can turn it up tohigh risk, based on these things
that we're talking about.
So don't think that justbecause you're not dealing with
your data quality that you don'thave risk.
Your risk is already there.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome to the Risk Matters podcast.
My name is Frank Morfis and I'myour host.
In each episode of this podcast, we uncover why effective risk
management is fundamental inprotecting people, strengthening
businesses and sustainingindustries.
Our focus today is on buildinga culture of reliability,
whether that's throughtechnology, training or
transformation within anorganization and our goal today
(00:49):
is to provide insights intocreating a culture that
prioritizes reliability andmaintenance excellence
throughout the organization whatwe like to say from the top
down.
I've got a very special guestwith me today.
I would like to welcomeTerrence O'Hanlon.
Terrence O'Hanlon is the CEO ofReliabilityWeb.
I think for most of those thatare probably listening to, this
(01:10):
needs no introduction, butTerrence has over 40 years of
experience as a reliabilityleader.
With his innovative work withUptime Elements Framework, he's
transformed the industry, makinghim a key influencer and an
expert in asset management, inreliability and in operational
excellence.
Terrence thank you so much forjoining us today.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Really great to be here.
I've been an admirer of yourcompany since I started and
learned a lot from theapproaches of the experts that
you have on your team, so it'sbeen a really great relationship
.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Absolutely, and I think that we do the same.
There's a lot of going back andforth on LinkedIn that we've
seen right, and it's great tojust watch the things that you
do and really work together in asocial platform and through
things like IMC.
I think that before we diveinto this podcast today a very
hot topic throughout theindustry, something that we're
(02:05):
pushing pretty hard and we knowyou are as well but IMC is right
around the corner.
How is preparation going forthat?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, we're going into the 38th year for the
International MaintenanceConference.
I believe it's the longestrunning maintenance conference
anywhere and the only year itdidn't happen, of course, was
during the COVID year 2020.
But it's going great.
(02:32):
When we first started, theysaid you can't do a maintenance
conference at a beach, no one'sgoing to get permission to go.
You can't do a maintenanceconference in December no one
will be able to come aroundChristmas and holiday time and I
remember the first year we didabout 550 people showing up and
it's been growing, you know,ever since then.
So we have, I think, 25 or 30countries that are engaged and
(02:55):
coming.
You know I love the opening ofthis podcast.
You know where you're focusingon risk, both in terms of
something that can be negative,but also something, if companies
manage it right, that canreally be opportunity.
So a lot of that's in thedecision making and the strategy
and the planning, you know, andnot that it doesn't have
(03:15):
anything to do with the specificassets.
Of course it does.
But there's a business side tomaintenance as well, and I think
you know your firm has alwaysbrought that sort of overall
business.
Look, because you do much morethan maintenance and reliability
and asset management.
That's what we try to do aswell is there is a you know you
make investments in assets.
(03:36):
They're expensive, it's like alot of your cash and you're
making these assets and you wantto.
You want the assets to producewell and of course, it's very
exciting.
You build a new facility, thepoliticians and the executives
come and cut the ribbon, but nowyou got to take care of it for
the next 25 years or 30 years,and that's where some of the
maybe you could say no fun part,because no one's cutting the
(03:58):
ribbon, because you need tolubricate the bearing.
You know, all the hard workcomes.
So we like to celebrate thisgroup that comes to IMC because
really, what's the job at theend of the day?
Make sure the plant doesn't.
No downtime, no injuries, noenvironmental incidents.
In other words, make a boringday, and in our business and in
(04:22):
Western society in general, noone chases you down in the
parking lot and says, wow,thanks, today was so boring.
Nothing happened today.
But in reality, that is the goalof the people you serve and the
people we serve and we want to.
We want to celebrate thatyou're here.
Nothing happened.
You can be here because youhave proactivity back at your
(04:42):
plant.
You can be here because youhave proactivity back at your
plant.
You can come to a conferenceand we can celebrate you and you
can meet all kinds of solutionproviders and technology
providers.
It's just a super excitingexperience for me.
I'll say one more thing.
I grew up in a family of eightkids where we were the small
family of all the cousins, 13and 14 over here, and our
(05:04):
Thanksgivings were like 150people.
It was like a mini conferenceand that is where I learned how
to host large crowds.
So to IMC is kind of likecoming to Thanksgiving at the
old Hamlin house as I wasgrowing up.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I love it, and it's Thanksgiving in Marco Island
right, so you can't beat that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Well, it does help, it does help.
I will say the place helps melook good.
It does look good.
Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
No, thank you for that, and I think, a lot of what
you touched on there and thegoals that you guys have with
this conference.
They really align with some ofthe things that I want to talk
about today.
Some of the questions that Ithink we've seen at ABS
Consulting, some of thequestions that we get asked
pretty regularly, and they'retypical throughout the industry.
Right, I don't think it matterswho you are as a service
provider, what services youprovide or what kind of
(05:52):
organization you are.
The industrial organizationsare all dealing with the same
things, right?
When it comes to reliability,when it comes to new technology
or existing technology andsystems in place, right, or
systems of consideration.
So I've gone back and forth onreally where to position some of
these questions, and the firstone for me is looking at the
(06:14):
integration of new technologiesinto systems.
Right, there's so many thingsout there.
I've got a question on AI foryou here in a little bit, right.
But when people start to lookat new technology and how to
integrate that technology withfundamental maintenance
practices right, the ultimategoal is to enhance overall
effectiveness and prevent futureissues, right, can you take a
(06:38):
spin at that for me?
I know you've probably seen alot of folks with outdated
systems and equipment youtouched on it a minute ago but
how are you seeing the best wayto integrate technology into
maintenance practices for?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
success.
Well, there's a couple ofthings I'd unpack there.
The first one's the bigelephant in the room data.
I love maintainers andreliability teams and asset
management teams, but we are gotto look ourselves in the mirror
.
We are bad at data and becauseour, because the assets over
(07:17):
here, the technicians over hereand our IT system is over here
in our application, 50 percentof reliabilityiabilityWeb's
audience so we think we've got apretty advanced audience can't
get a work order on a mobiledevice today, in 2024.
You know, imagine hiring.
You know some 28-year-old andyou're giving them a stack of
(07:38):
work orders.
You know paper work orders butthat when you have that manual
data collection, it takes a lotof work to do data governance
correctly and you can't reallyleverage these technologies
without the proper dataunderpinning, so to speak.
So there's one thing I'll justjump up and down about Our
(07:59):
research shows that the overalltrust in asset data is 60%.
I mean, if you only had a 60%trust in your financial data of
your company, you know your CFOwould be fired, right the thing
it wouldn't be allowed, itwouldn't be permitted.
So that's one.
Get your data house in order.
Easier said than done, you know, because you have all kinds of
(08:21):
issues of implementation,adoption.
And I love that you all arebringing cybersecurity into the
conversation because wetypically ignore it.
We want to be unbridled.
You know, that's why I get sofreaked out around us, because
we just, you know, we just wantto go out and do the job kind of
a thing, and we don't want tobe locked down.
Well, it's a dangerous world,not that we have to be locked
(08:44):
down, but we have to do thingsright and I really appreciate
that.
Your company sort of putting ina framework.
I know it's not a funconversation, but we have to
make sure we're secure.
So the second part of itsecurity, trust.
We call it trustworthiness.
You know that the system'strustworthy and you're not going
to violate or hurt the companyby using it.
It's all secure.
(09:05):
And then it comes down to thepeople.
You know, does it make theirjob easier?
Does it make their job harder?
They'll do a little bit ofharder work if it improves
performance.
But if it makes their jobharder and it's not really
affecting performance, adoptionreally slows and that's one
reason why the data doesn't comein and things of that nature.
(09:26):
So it's not an easy answer.
I will say I love the questionbecause I think it's something
we have to solve.
We've we've been a greatcommunity.
I don't want to say withouttechnology.
We've always had technology butwe haven't used it, we haven't
leveraged it like other parts ofour companies have, like
(09:46):
accounting and sales andmarketing and supply chain, and
we can't.
There's no reason why we can't.
And so we need to pull together,get those case studies where it
really worked and what thesecret sauce was you know out
front.
And that's why what we try todo at IMC we must cross the
technology threshold here,because it's safer, it's more
(10:08):
secure, it's more successful,it's just smart business.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
It makes me think a little bittoo.
It's really twofold when youtalk about the workforce, right,
the existing workforce or thosethat maybe haven't relied as
heavily on technology as some ofthe newer age would like to
today or is trying to with theadvancements we've mentioned.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Ai right, there's my second mention of AI so far in
this discussion.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
But when you look at some of those folks right, the
loss of technical expertise, aspeople are starting to retire
from organizations that'sdifficult to replace, right?
Or simply making strategyadjustments.
When you look at the workforceand a lot of the organizations
that we work with, they don'thave time to step away from the
shop floor.
They don't have time to stepaway and look at these capital
(11:00):
projects or these largeimplementations, and it's
oftentimes looked at asdifficult, right?
What are some of the thingsthat you are seeing reliability
leaders do, or some suggestionsthat you have for reliability
leaders to make improvements totheir operations?
Well, and how do you increaseadoption?
(11:21):
I guess it's a good question,right, yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Well, constancy, constancy, constancy, constancy.
You're going to get some thingsright, You're going to get some
things wrong.
Just keep putting one foot infront of the other and going.
You're going to meet people atIMC that have been on this
journey 10 years, 15 years andstaying with the same company,
sometimes staying in the sameposition, and that constancy of
(11:47):
purpose, as Deming called it, isnot to be underlooked.
Time, it's like putting moneyin a savings account.
It compounds over time yourcontinual effort towards a true
north over time.
That's the winning math Tryingto do it in three months and
closing out the project andgetting adoption, or nine months
(12:11):
, or a year or whatever.
Of course we're going to haveprojects that come up, but
reliability is not a project.
Reliability is how you dobusiness.
You may have projects withinreliability to help advance the
performance of things, but youreally need to have it as the
way you think, the way you dobusiness.
We have a rule that how thingsoccur to you, how it's in your
(12:34):
brain, is how you perform it.
So with our, with our training,we work in changing how it's in
your brain, how you think aboutit, because we know we can
change how you think about itabout where it fits in the
overall organizational picture.
You'll make those journeys andthen you'll get it right more
often than you get it wrong.
But even when you get it wrong,you correct the course.
(12:55):
You know, and you do so withintegrity and authenticity.
And you know you do so withtransparency and you move
forward.
You just keep moving forward.
There is no real secret.
There is no archaeological dig.
We're waiting for the silverbullet here.
It's a lot of hard work andit's a lot of things coming
together and coordinating all atthe same time, and it is not a
(13:17):
maintenance function.
That's like trying to saymaintenance is responsible for
safety.
Maintenance plays a big role insafety and we want to keep our
maintainers safe.
But the whole company plays arole.
Every person plays a role insafety.
I could make the argument thatevery person also plays a role
in reliability.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love that and I think youmade a good point too there in
two responses.
Right With with the, with theloss of some of that technical
expertise, or the potential lossof some of that technical
expertise, it is crucial todocument those things, not only
documenting processes butexperiences right for the folks
(13:55):
that have been in thoseorganizations for 10, 15, 20
years and have learned and grownand really developed, the
beginning stages or the currentstate of whatever asset
management plan is in place.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Right, we're clearly aging out.
Right, we're, we're clearlyaging out.
You know, the, the, the, theolder workers who maybe weren't
so great at documentingeverything you know, are
retiring.
They're heading, all headingdown to Florida and you know,
faster than we're replacing theknowledge.
We still have people coming up,but there are people without
(14:31):
that knowledge that the 20, 30year, you know, veterans had, um
, it's a, it's a tough solution,it's a tough situation because
we don't have a lot of greatsolutions.
I am all in on ai, yeah, and ifI had some older workers that
were getting ready to retire, Iwould be sitting them down with
the gen ai model training,absolutely that gen AI model
(14:51):
training, that gen AI model onwhat they know ASAP, you know,
and AI is not the answer toeverything, but it's got some
amazing features of capturingknowledge.
You know, we're seeing.
We're sort of seeing AI.
You know machine learning, ifyou want, at the condition
monitoring level vibrationsensors and oil sensors and
temperature sensors and things,and that's pretty sensors and
(15:13):
oil sensors and temperaturesensors and things, and that's
getting pretty standardizedWireless sensors all throughout
sending up to the internet andthe machine learning sort of
managing the alarms and theconditions and doing some
advisory.
We're seeing sort of thismiddle layer where they're doing
sort of the statistical andprocess-oriented reliability,
facilitating failure modes andeffects analysis, facilitating
(15:36):
RCM and things of that nature.
And then we're seeing this GenAI as sort of the knowledge base
being able to have a humanconversation with your data in
context, which is superinteresting.
I mean I love it.
I'm training a lot of differentkinds of agents right now and I
just find it fine.
(15:58):
I know everyone reallycomplains about open AI and
hallucinations and all that kindof stuff.
I really a lot of.
It has to do with the way youask the questions and if you
don't like the answer, you tellthem to ask the question again.
There's just a lot of potential.
Don't be afraid of it, you know.
Start embracing it.
It's going to be in almostevery application that you're
(16:20):
ever going to use on thecomputer.
If it's not already, it's goingto be soon, you know.
So whatever you're using forwork orders, whatever you're
using for planning, scheduling,will be supported by AI.
So start learning.
Don't be afraid of it, althoughthere is a lot to be afraid of
with AI.
Learn it.
Learn it so you're informed andyour people can be informed.
(16:42):
There's a cliche.
You know I'm not going to losemy job to AI.
I'm going to lose my job tosomebody who knows how to do my
job with AI, right.
So that's why you should belearning AI, because you don't
want to get replaced by somebodywho knows how to use AI to do
what you do.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You should learn how to use AI to do what you do,
sure, and AI is obviously notnew.
I think that, right now, thebiggest thing that we're seeing
is it's being utilizedsuccessfully, right, and there
are, there are organizations,there are applications right,
that are starting I think youmentioned it that are starting
to embed the AI capability intosomething as simple as WorkWorks
(17:20):
, right, and a lot of thingswhere it can be used fairly
seamlessly, as you mentioned, ifdone correctly and if, for lack
of a better phrase taught bythose experts that know exactly
what they're implementing intotheir systems by those experts
that know exactly what they'reimplementing into their systems,
instead of a computer systembeeping at you because you
didn't fill out a field orsomething.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Imagine a nice calming voice.
Maybe you should considerfilling in the notes.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And kind of encouraging you to do it the
right way, rather than you knowyou can't save it and you can,
you know all that kind of stuff,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I think we all prefer to be talked to that way, right
or corrected in that manner,rather than the slap on the hand
or the loud yell yeah.
Last question that I have, onAI, I think, but I know that
even at Maximal World, masteringAI was a big topic and you're
speaking with folks about thisall the time.
I'm sure that at IMC it will bea big topic of discussion there
(18:19):
as well.
What's the feedback that you'regetting from audiences?
I think you shared a lot ofyour feelings and I've done the
same, and we're very excited,and I know a lot of folks that
are.
Are you getting that generalconsensus from the audience?
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, I think what we're getting a couple of things
.
The theme at IMC is intelligentreliability leadership, and
what we mean by that is sort ofAI combined with leadership.
So the human and the AI, but ahuman who's empowered as a
leader.
I think.
A couple of just quickresponses off the top of my head
(18:55):
.
The data a lot of companies arehitting the wall.
They have the money, they canbuy the technology, they got the
contacts, the right technologycompany, but when you let AI go
crazy on your data, it comesback on you know you know, it's
like you're creatingFrankenstein they're hitting
walls with the data.
(19:16):
Now, I think AI is going to be abig tool in fixing all of the
data that we have in thisindustry as well, and I think
people are going to be embracingit.
We're sort of at.
You know, any change,especially in maintenance,
reliability and asset management, takes a long time.
So we've got people who aresort of knocking at the door.
We've got people who've alreadypiloted, you know, a to Z,
(19:40):
vibration analysis or some othersystem that contains AI, and
they've done it successfully,just maybe not at scale.
Others that are doing it withtheir like you say, their EAM
and their work orders and thingsof that nature.
Very few have made it throughall the way to you know, scaling
, where you could say, wow,that's digital transformation.
They've transformed their wholeyou know, maintenance operation
(20:03):
based on AI.
But it's coming.
You know it's in the nextcouple of years.
Smart companies like IBM theygot a whole R&D, watson X and
IFS has AI built into the system.
All of the modern like MaintainX and those type of CMMSs have
(20:26):
AI components to it.
So you know it's kind of comingwith the meal, so to speak.
When you buy a vibrationapplication, the AI is going to
come with it.
When you are, or you do it as aservice, the AI is going to be
there.
So dive in.
You know you don't necessarilyhave to be the first one to cut
(20:47):
your way through the jungle.
That's what we're trying to doat IMC for you, so you can have
some paths to follow of otherpeople who succeeded.
And the thing I love about IMCwe have people come and tell us
about their failures, whichoftentimes is more valuable than
the successes.
We can all learn from thefailures and what not to do
sometimes is as valuable as whatto do, and we're learning as a
(21:09):
community together.
You know your team adding thisIT kind of ITOT I guess they
call it information technologyand the operational technology
coming together with a blanketof cybersecurity.
I think that's been one of theproblems is the security.
So I'm really glad to see youall addressing that.
Problems is the security.
(21:31):
So I'm really glad to see youall addressing that.
It's all in the.
It's not like you said, it'snot new, it's been here for a
long time.
But the potential to make theapplication scale, that's what's
new.
And we have to get our house inorder.
We have to get our data housein order.
We have to get our devices inorder.
We have to get our software upto date and do all the security
(21:52):
patches and things of thatnature.
So we have to add somediscipline that we've been able
to engineer our way out of inthe past, you know, because we
have great engineering inreliability.
But, ok, great, we have greatengineering.
You can do amazing thingswithout a lot of data.
Wonderful, congratulations.
(22:13):
We'll create a new award forthat.
But let's use the data thatwe've got and let's collect it
better, let's make it moreaccurate, let's put it in, let's
know what we're trying to getto so that that data can work
for us.
The companies that get to theother side of the data river are
going to go so fast that datacan work for us.
The companies that get to theother side of the data river are
going to go so fast thatthey'll be buying the companies
(22:35):
that don't, because they'll beable to operate with margins
that the other companies won'tbe able to compete with.
So move to the other side of theriver.
Yes, there are a few crocodilesin the river, but move to the
other side before everybody elsedoes.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, I think the last thing that I'll add here,
before we move on, is that itseems that most application or
your EAM providers areestablishing this or the AI
capabilities as opportunity.
Right, it's not forced, it'sopportunity to grow.
It's opportunity to havesomething that can help you
tremendously grow with you.
Right, and, like you said, ittakes time.
It's not a quick fix.
(23:10):
It's not something to implementinto an organization in a
matter of weeks or months.
It's something that encouragesyou to improve your data, to
improve your processes and toget to the point of success that
is different at everyorganization, but shares similar
qualities.
Obviously.
Awesome, I appreciate that.
That's exciting.
(23:31):
The last thing that I reallywant to touch on is strategic
asset management and saying that, right, we could spend another
hour and a half here, probablysignificantly longer, and we
won't.
But two of the biggestquestions that I have for you
when we're talking abouttechnology and we're talking new
age, can you explain theimportance of a comprehensive
(23:54):
asset management program?
But, more than anything, how orwhy it's important that that
integrates seamlessly with yourEAM application and your
reliability programs.
How do those things play oneach other?
What successes are you seeing?
Obviously, we can get intoinventory and lifecycle strategy
and organizational preparationright, but what is your take on
(24:18):
that?
What is the importance of thosethings really working together?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Well, I think it's super critical.
Asset management is acoordinated set of activities.
A coordinated set of activitiesto realize value from the
assets.
Well, how does that happen inmost companies?
Well, a group of smartengineers specify and design.
A group of smart purchasingpeople procure and build.
(24:42):
A group of smart commissioningengineers commission it.
Then a group of smart operatingengineers operate it.
A group of smart maintenanceengineers maintain it.
But they're doing so withoutthat coordination.
They're doing so because inWestern society we do
departments and becausepurchasing does purchasing
(25:03):
better than maintainers do,maintainers do better than
purchasing does.
So it makes sense to have thesedepartments.
Sometimes we suboptimize forthe company.
The company's got one set ofgoals, one set of objectives,
and they really expect us in thedepartments to align.
But what's the vehicle to alignon?
(25:24):
A specification thatmaintenance isn't going to see
for six years, because it'sgoing to take that long to build
the asset or a design that youknow that they're not going to
see for multiple years?
A lot of maintenance operationsare busy, they're overburdened,
they're understaffed and theydon't have time to go in a
meeting that's going to affectthem six years from now.
(25:44):
They don't have the resourcesto do that.
You know, or maybe not even theinterest in doing it, and
either do the people in theprojects.
Because they want to, they'regetting measured by how fast
they move, how quick they stayon schedule and how they stay on
budget.
It's the wrong set of metrics.
So, unless you it, I shouldn'tsay that.
I don't want to condemn thosemetrics.
(26:06):
It's great to be on time and onbudget.
I don't want to condemn thosemetrics.
It's great to be on time and onbudget, but if you do that at
the cost of a later assetlifecycle, your total cost of
ownership of that asset is goingto go through the roof
unnecessarily.
Unnecessarily.
And it's not just cost, it'ssafety.
It's not just safety, it'ssustainability.
So it's really affecting almostevery aspect of your business
(26:28):
sustainability.
So you know it's reallyaffecting almost every aspect of
your business.
So the challenge, though, is howdo you coordinate decisions
across the specification phase,the design phase, the build and
purchase phase, thecommissioning phase, the operate
phase, the maintain phase, theimprove phase, because
everybody's got differentdecisions that are driving them.
(26:49):
Some people are interested inthis today, some people are
interested in this week.
Some people are interested inthis month.
Some people are interested inthis year.
Some people are interested inthis quarter century.
You know you build a bridge,you better have a long plan for
that bridge.
So coordinating the decisionsthat are made on the daily,
(27:10):
weekly, monthly, annual quartercentury is difficult, and that's
the value that asset managementbrings.
It's sort of a layer betweenwhat top management wants and
then down in the operationalzone where decisions can be made
that benefit the organizationin the long run.
You know we may decide that wedon't want the long run benefit,
(27:33):
we're going to take the shortbenefit.
We may decide we want the longbenefit, not the short benefit.
We may mix them, but in eithercase the decisions are
intentional and they're drivenby policy and they're driven by
a business strategy and they'redriven by a business plan.
So it's important that everybodysort of go up and work at that
layer too, in addition to theirdepartmental layers that they're
(27:56):
at and I know that was probablygeeky and long winded, it's
hard to explain that part of thebusiness, but we call it a
decision layer.
It's a layer that'sspecifically to coordinate and
make decisions and it's whereyou know if you don't have an
asset management policy then youprobably don't have an asset
(28:17):
management system that Frank istalking about.
You know, and if you don't havea strategic plan, multi-year
strategic plan, you probablydon't have that layer that I'm
referring to here.
So that's the hard part is,when you go to't have that layer
that I'm referring to here.
So that's the hard part is whenyou go to management and say,
hey, we have to add a new layerof bureaucracy in the company,
they're like, nah, don't thinkso, and it doesn't really have
(28:39):
to be bureaucratic, it can beeffective and efficient.
Public utilities are doing itbecause they have this water
utility has the tax or the ratepayer, taxpayer's money.
They have a responsibility.
So they're becoming transparentwith their decisions.
I think eventually it will workits way in a bigger way into
(29:01):
industry.
It's going to start with thepublic and the tax and the and
the defense industries and allthat kind of stuff that are more
accountable to you and me ascitizens, so to speak.
But then it'll work its wayinto private because I firmly
believe and I think your companydoes too it's just good, smart
business to coordinate those bigdecisions that can drive cost
(29:22):
and safety and success.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Absolutely, and not geeky at all.
I think that's exactly whatwe're looking for, but
organizations are focusing onand they need to know how to get
there and organizations likeyourself and ABS Consulting.
That's what we're trying tohelp them understand the
different pieces of it, I'll doyou one, better than what you
think is your geeky response,and we typically have one big
(29:55):
key takeaway from our podcastright, and that's that there's
never a bad time to start right.
Wherever you are in yourreliability journey, wherever
you are in your technologyadoption process right within an
organization, there's never abad time to start right.
Maturity, size, data quality Ithink you mentioned data quality
(30:16):
a number of times, but they'renot barriers right, they're not
barriers in implementing anasset management framework.
You have to start where you are.
You have to start where you'velived, whether it's been over
the last couple of days ormonths or years right, you have
to find that starting point andwhat that end goal may look like
, it's going to deviate fromthat path.
It's going to change.
(30:36):
New things are going to beimplemented, like AI, and when
those things are adopted, Ithink that that's the process or
the roadmap that you and Iwould, both in our organizations
would suggest people to focuson.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Well, and you opened with this statement about risk
and where it fits in thebusiness and think about it like
a knob.
That's where we say culturereally plays a role.
You can turn the risk to mediumrisk, you can turn it down to
low risk, you can turn it up tohigh risk, based on these things
that we're talking about.
So don't think that justbecause you're not dealing with
(31:16):
your data quality that you don'thave risk.
Your risk is already there.
You can reduce the risk byimproving the data quality.
Now it doesn't mean you don'thave to go all the way up to
zero risk, because it costs youa fortune to have that kind of,
that kind of data quality.
But you can find what's rightfor your business.
If you're if you're you knowyou're building nuclear power
(31:36):
plants, you might want to reducethe risk a little bit.
If you're building frozen bagelpizzas, you might be able to
turn it down a little bit, youknow, and make it appropriate
for the business.
Remember, risk is negative andit can cause negative
consequences.
Risk can have positive, it canbe called opportunity.
Risk on the positive side iscalled opportunity and we have a
(31:59):
lot of opportunity to gain withasset management, with
reliability approaches and withbetter maintenance management,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
That's awesome, I love it.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Opportunity.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I think is the motto for this one right, I like it.
The last thing super shortquestion.
I imagine short answer as well,but you know everybody's
starting to come up with theirmottos for new year 2025.
What is yours?
What is your hashtag for INC?
What is your hashtag for 2025?
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Well, we're finishing 25 years of business this year,
so I see we'll cap off our 25thyear and that has been a
collection of the industry'sbody of knowledge.
Now we've taken that body ofknowledge, we've been practicing
it for about 15 years and weplan to the next 25 years to
(32:48):
well, really, what it's about,what our 25 plan is, is launch
the next 25 years, puteverything in place so that we
have the next 25 years.
It's different than the first25 years.
We're really at a demarcation,at Reliability, web, where we're
going, and a lot of it iscaused by AI I won't go into all
that here Both the risks andthe opportunities for every
(33:10):
aspect of our business.
So, as a result of that, we'vemade a different plan for the
next 25 years and I'm superexcited about it.
So I would say it's future, it'sthe future, it's being not
afraid, and this is a goodmessage.
Like you were talking about it.
Don't be afraid to start.
Would I like to be in adifferent place?
Of course, every business wouldlike to be in a different place
(33:33):
and it's in right now, but I'mstarting the journey for the
next 25 years.
Don't be afraid to reinventyourself.
Don't be afraid to go away fromthe model that may have served
you well and worked well, butthere are new opportunities.
Reinvent yourself and takeadvantage of these new
opportunities.
It's great Hashtag don't beafraid.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
right, I love it.
Terrence, thank you so much forjoining the podcast today.
It's been an absolute pleasureto talk through things with you.
I hope that we continue to dothis, learning from your
experiences, your key insightsin risk and asset management.
We're super excited abouteverything that you're doing
right now and look forward toseeing you at INC in a few weeks
(34:12):
.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
We are too.
We're very much looking forwardto it.
I appreciate the opportunity tobe on the show Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Thanks.
So there you have it, folks.
As we continue this RiskMatters podcast journey, I
encourage you to join us.
I hear from many longtimeexperts and up and coming
experts in the industry.
Until next time, I'm FrankNorthes.
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
You've been listening to Risk Matters X.0, a podcast
focused on all things risk andwhy it matters to the people,
businesses and industries thatsustain our world.
Follow Risk Matters X.0 on yourfavorite podcast app and leave
us a review.
Thanks for tuning in.
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