October 1, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of Risk & Resolve, Ben Conner and Todd Hufford sit down with Jon Tice, SVP of Mission at IMMI, pastor, and author of The Golfer’s Guide to Understanding Your Wife. Jon shares his journey from church leadership to the business world, how faith and values guide IMI’s global impact, and the lessons he’s learned about marriage, purpose, and leaving a legacy.
Key Talking Points:
- Jon’s journey from ministry to business leadership
- The “turtle on a fence post” analogy and the people who shaped his life
- Lessons from 39 years of marriage and writing his book on relationships
- IMMI’s transformation into an ESOP and its faith-friendly culture
- The challenge of balancing faith and business decisions at scale
- Leadership, mentorship, and chasing impact in the last third of life
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
You're listening to Risk and Resolve.
SPEAKER_02 (00:09):
Welcome back to another episode of The Risk and
Resolve Pod.
I am your co-host, Ben Connor,alongside Todd Hufford.
Today, our special guest is JohnTice.
John is the SVP of Mission andEmmy.
John, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Oh, great.
Great to talk with you, Ben andTodd, and uh just looking
forward to our conversation.
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Yeah, you're welcome.
Awesome.
Um, so John, he also founded andspearheads Emmy's Emmy Serves
Global Initiative, givingemployees two paid volunteer
days.
And you've also authored a bookuh that is the golfer's guide to
understanding your wife.
(00:56):
Yes, man of many talents, anauthor.
Um, but yeah, John, um, you'vebeen with Emmy.
Uh, I've looked it up.
Uh, you started in July of 2014.
I actually remember the firsttime we went and grabbed lunch
together down in the ClayTerrace area.
Um, but tell us a little bitabout the days before Emmy and
(01:19):
your journey um personally andprofessionally.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Well, no, that's great.
Yeah, 11 years here at Emmy,it's just been a wonderful
journey, great company,family-owned organization since
1961, uh by the Anthony family,um, became an Aesop in 2022.
So that's the Emmy story alittle bit.
But my story, um, I would beginwith one of the things that Tom
Anthony, who our uh is DickAnthony, his uh his son, uh,
(01:47):
taught me.
And we were talking one time interms of he said, John, you
know, I've realized that reallyuh I'm just a turtle on a fence
post.
And I thought, that's so true.
And I look at my life.
Uh I mean a turtle on a fencepost, you know that somebody had
to do something to get theturtle there.
And and uh somebody had to helpthat turtle.
(02:09):
And I would say, you know, Ilook at my life and early on,
you know, you're you're full ofuh, at least I was, full of self
and self and goals and all thethings that I thought I wanted
to do and accomplish.
And of course, over time I thinklife has a way of humbling you
and um getting you to a placewhere you're ready to receive.
(02:33):
And and then when you're readyto really receive from uh life,
you're ready to give.
So my my story, I was I was uhborn in New Jersey with uh to
some uh a dad who's a businessowner and and a grandfather and
all of that, and spent six yearsin New Jersey, six years in
South Carolina because he becamean administrator uh at a
(02:54):
university.
I spent six years in NorthCarolina.
So if you were to say, where didI really grow up?
I would have said I grew up inNorth Carolina, spent from uh
age 12 to 18, uh all of mygrowing up years, all the fun
things you do, sports,athletics, uh of every kind.
And and I love my North Carolinadays in a town called Dollsboro,
(03:15):
North Carolina.
So uh it was a great experience.
Went off to college, uh, went toa uh private Christian school in
in South Carolina where my dadhad been an administrator.
So that was a great experience.
Met my one wonderful wife, gotmarried at 21, uh, and uh been
married now 39 years.
So uh it's been a fantastic uhjourney.
(03:36):
Uh she might not say it's beenfantastic the whole time, but I
would.
So but uh for for me it's beenquite a journey.
Um came out of of college, thefirst 20 years of my life worked
in the not-for-profit world inthe in church life.
So uh my father led leftbusiness and became a pastor.
(03:56):
Um, I kind of followed in hisfootsteps, became a worked with
youth pastors and and taught ina Christian school for uh a
little while, coached and allused my sports and athletics.
And then uh for uh about 20years into that that life, I got
really frustrated with some ofthe organizational elements of
(04:18):
church life.
Uh and I don't know if that'shappened in other people's
lives, but uh and I and I justsaid, uh God, would you give me
an opportunity to get in this inthe business community?
And and uh by God's grace, Idid.
Uh I had a friend who took achance on me and said, John,
you've you're used to workingwith people and that kind of
thing.
And hey, let us come help yougrow our people.
(04:39):
And that's really what I went,worked for at a car dealership,
um, uh Sherry Auto Auto Grouphere in in Indiana.
I had since moved to there, andthen through that uh met the
Anthony family, and uh then Tomcame and said, John, hey, come
help us do at a global level uhwhat you've been doing here in
(04:59):
Indiana locally.
So uh went from 250 plusemployees to at that point, uh
Amy had about 1,300 employees,and since then we've doubled
again in size almost.
So uh been in the HR space inthose last 20 years, and uh
really now have shifted intothis focus on the missional
(05:21):
elements of Amy's mission, uh,which is to uh by God's grace
maintain a dynamic growingbusiness with a Christian
impact.
So uh, and we do that by livingour values, honor God, serve
people, deliver excellence, andgrow profitably.
So, in a brief snapshot, that'sthe life and times of the turtle
on the fence post.
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
What uh what brought what specifically brought you to
Indiana?
Was it that job or was theresomething else that struck the
match and coming to Indiana?
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Well, you know, um my wife had followed me around
in my dreams, like a lot ofgreat spouses do.
You know, men, we dream bigdreams, and and uh our wives
really are the ones who not onlypay the price sometimes, but
then also are thankfully verycommitted to us as human beings.
And I uh my wife followed mearound all over.
(06:09):
She was an Indiana girl, grew upin uh Middletown, Indiana, uh,
went to uh Indiana ChristianAcademy, uh, grew up here in
this local area, and then herfather passed away uh and left
her mother a widow.
And I I said at that time, Isaid there's certainly got to be
some church work or somethingthat can be done in the state of
Indiana.
(06:30):
I said, honey, I'll try to findsome place.
And and actually I didn't haveto look very hard.
I had a connection.
I I just said to him, hey, I'mlooking for something in
Indiana, and you know somebody,and the next thing you know, I'm
in Kokomo, Indiana.
And uh so we in 1993 we moved touh to Kokomo.
Now I was 29 at the time, and Idid tell you I grew up in um I
(06:53):
grew up in North Carolina, butmy wife would say I grew up in
Indiana because clearly I wasn'tat 29 quite grown up yet.
So she uh she says, Yeah, Johngrew up in Indy in Indiana.
So, well, maybe I did.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
That's great.
So another thing I think that'sreally fascinating about your
story that I've I've caught overover the years is not only are
you creating a lot of impact inthe professional world at Emmy
and even before Emmy, but you'reyou're a pastor also.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
So talk a little bit about that.
Most people, when they'repastors, like that's a full-time
gig.
And and you you're you you dothat as I guess a hobby.
I don't know.
What would you call it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
Yeah, well, I'm I'm not part of a bowling league or
a golf league, so youeverybody's gotta everybody's
gotta do something on theweekend.
So uh no, I actually been uhwhen I uh left the formal, I
kind of set out for about a yearin terms of the formal church
structure when I um I and I justneeded kind of a break.
Uh nothing had happened in amajor kind of way in church
(08:00):
life.
I just knew it was burning meout personally, and I needed it
uh and I needed a differentfocus.
And I'd always enjoyed businessagain.
My father, grandfather were bothbusiness owners.
I've always enjoyed the thethrill of of making a sale and
being part of that and and uhnegotiating and all those kind
(08:20):
of things.
Um and so the what happened wasit's just like I laid out for
about a year, and then I had alittle church in our local
community who actually was thethe the um the church that the
owner who of the car dealershipwas working for said John, I
said we needed somebody to comespeak, we're without a pastor.
And so I started doing that withanother retired pastor and
(08:43):
started speaking on a regularbasis, actually uh with less
than a year from when I had uhuh left that full-time church
gig.
And um and and then I just keptdoing that.
And uh and I do have a passionfor uh helping people discover
faith or come back to faith.
Um I really am passionate aboutit personally and try to help a
(09:05):
lot of people over the years intheir in their get get their
guidance back to God or to Godand and um believing that you
know we all worship something,and so so helping people
understand and discover faith uhand in the God of the Bible is
what I've spent my personal lifedoing and have always done,
(09:25):
actually, since uh I came tofaith at 18 myself.
So it's just part of my story,right?
And everybody's got thatjourney.
And so when I did that, um, thechurch continued to say, Hey
John, would you just do this allthe time?
And I said, Well, no, I won't doit all the time.
I said, But I'll be yourfull-time, part-time pastor if
that's what you want.
And so that's how that begun,and that's how it has continued.
(09:47):
Now, thankfully, now the churchhas uh it's uh continued to ebb
and flow like churches do, butwe have two full-time pastors
that work full-time.
So I've been mentoring two youngmen who, in some in time, I'm
gonna hand the baton off to oneof those, uh, two of those guys,
however, they work that out.
But so I have a small staff, Ihave a little church in Kokomo,
(10:07):
first congregational church indowntown Kokomo.
Um, so I do that in terms ofprovide some leadership and
teaching experience, uh, and andthen they do the day-to-day in
terms of caring for people andthose kind of things.
And so I stay involved withthat.
So I call it beingco-vocational.
You know, uh, by means todivide, co-means to bring
(10:28):
together.
And so I've always tried toseamlessly bring my life
together into one unit, um,because we have enough things
that divide us, and so I'm justtrying to live out that in lots
of different contexts, andthat's all that's how uh that's
how we do it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
That's great, John.
You mentioned uh back in 2022,not too very long ago, the IMI,
which for years we all calledIMMI, yes, right?
Got a little bit of a namechange, uh, or at least how you
pronounce it, went and became anAesop.
Uh some people listening may bepart of a company that's an
ESOP, or you may have ownerslistening that are have thought
(11:08):
about converting their companyto an ESOP.
You were, I think, still on thatHR role.
Um, yes.
I bet you had a big hand incommunicating to the people you
were stewarding as to what thismeant to them.
Take us back to, I guess, 2020,2021.
How did that communicationstart?
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Well, I mean, first off, it's born in the heart of
the of the ownership family, theAnthony's.
And really, it's it's about uh,in some sense, the title of your
uh your organization, your yourpod, uh Risk and Resolve.
Uh Tom Anthony was uh and Shellyhad had really considered the
(11:49):
our mission statement.
And uh, and they were lookingacross their family, and there
was no one who was really uh asuccessor, if you will, someone
who would say, you know, hey, Iwant to take this and I want to
manage and lead the business.
And as Tom thought about thatparticularly, and then he really
just said, you know, hey, I'mconcerned about our mission,
(12:10):
that it get lost.
Um that unique uhfaith-oriented, we call it
faith-friendly, but notfaith-forced, forced organ uh
emphasis.
Uh, we tell people often you canbelieve something about God or
nothing about God and be fine towork at Emmy.
But the the element of faith inthe marketplace was something
(12:32):
that the Anthony family had laida great foundation for.
And because of that, Tom said, Iit's gotta be mission
preservation.
So that's what began in thoseconversations.
And I think I remember hementioned something to me again,
maybe late 2021.
And obviously, all these thingswere very quietly done and
(12:53):
thought through.
And so, but um, our our CEO,Larry Gray and uh Norm Gould,
who is our uh CFO really, andour legal counsel, Matt King,
all together um really laid thefoundation for that with Tom.
And we're just fulfilling whathis desire was, he and his wife
(13:14):
Shelly, to say, look, we want tohand this to the people.
And so uh the east flops arefascinating.
Employee stock ownership plan.
I began to do a lot of readingmyself personally, so I began to
understand it.
And so, yes, I sat in a lot ofmeetings and I uh really was uh
amazed at the this program thatactually began in 1974 in the
(13:35):
US, which enables uh people, uhorganizations to do some amazing
things, allowing people tobecome owners.
It's it's really the foundationof business ownership.
And so um now that people cancan come and be a part of that,
and then and they're an emmy forthey're 20 years old and they
(13:56):
work a thousand hours in oneyear, and they become a part of
the eSOP and they begin to earnstock in the company.
So we're four years into it now,officially.
So by the you you you youmentioned the question about the
you know, the the how do youcommunicate it?
Well, it I would say it's reallyhard for people to get their
minds wrapped around it.
It was for it was for me.
(14:17):
Uh to just it's a mind-bending,uh it's very complicated, but
the simple thing is I think ourpeople are beginning to
understand that.
We just had our fourthvaluation.
Um, it people are beginning tolook at their statements
alongside of their 401k andthinking, wow, that's that's
real money.
And so I think uh peoplecontinue to earn shares.
(14:39):
Our stock is continue toappreciate, doesn't mean it will
every year, and trying to conveyto people, you know, just like
the stock market, it could go upand down.
Um, but uh so it's important forus to convey that message to,
you know, hey, what you do everyday matters, and and our
profitability as an organizationmatters, and then we want to
share that with with our people.
(14:59):
So, but overall, Todd, peopleare really getting it, and it's
it's a it's gonna be a big dealfor people uh off into the
future.
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
You mentioned uh the turtle, and uh, of course, if
you you kind of left it therefor a moment and then finished
it for those that have neverheard that analogy that you know
turtles can't get on a on a postby themselves, on a fence post.
So, who who are some of thosepeople that you haven't already
mentioned that that got you tothe places that you have gotten
to?
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Well, I mean, certainly most folks would say
they're mom and dad.
And and I hope, right?
There's a lot of people who itit almost puts a lump in my
throat because there's a lot ofpeople that don't have the start
that many of us have had.
Um, and my father, you know,clearly strong work ethic and a
strong understanding of um whatI call a businessman's view of
(15:53):
God.
That you got stuff to do and youbetter get after it.
My dad was very, I mean, he wasuh high, high type A, very
driven.
Um very uh he was an executivelevel type leader all his life
and started things and wasinvolved in in community
(16:14):
organizations and he modeledthat kind of intensity, uh,
sometimes you know, almost toointense.
Those of you, those of us menwho have fathers who are intense
guys, um you can you can getcaught up into that.
And then a mother who was youknow often provided that balance
and balance.
And my mom, I'll tell you thisyou think about one thing you
(16:36):
can say about your mother, shejust taught me to love Jesus.
I mean, it's all about who he isas a person, it was nothing more
than that.
And so I remember walking by herroom many, many times, and my
mom being on her knees, and Icould hear her pray for me.
And that's pretty powerfulstuff.
But then from there, I wouldsay, um, I had a uh a college
(16:57):
peer, uh college roommate, RossRobinson, who was a profound
influence on my life, and itreally was a great guy.
Gotten emotional because uh Iappreciate the question, Todd,
because it's it's moving whenyou think about the people that
uh have been used in your life.
And then um I would say threeother people outside of my wife.
(17:18):
Obviously, my wife uh uh whenyou you when you choose
somebody, I think I've toldmany, many times when you stand
up there and tell somebody, youknow, I love you and I cherish
you until death just part, andI've said to people many times,
I don't have the faintest cluewhat I meant.
Okay, I had no idea what thatmeant.
(17:40):
Uh, you know, being honest aboutthat.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Well, uh you know, I think that makes three of us.
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
Yeah, goodness, you know, you're sick and man, I
love you till death to uspartners.
I have no idea what that means.
Uh, but I think uh what I'velearned through my wife has just
been her constancy and and herconsistency and her just who she
is as a person.
And I failed to appreciate thatwell in my first 10 years of
(18:10):
marriage.
You know, I was talking withsome young men the other the
other day, and I said, you know,and a young guy's getting ready
to have a uh child, first child,and he was asking the question,
hey, what advice would you give?
And and the advice I gave was,man, don't miss your the value
of your wife and and don't be sobusy chasing other stuff that
(18:33):
you think is gonna sad, youknow, the the thing, right?
Uh but I think I missed theheart of my wife in my first 10
years of marriage.
And the last 30, almost 30 oryears, I've really tried to
chase her heart a lot better andhaven't done it perfectly.
But so she's a profoundinfluence.
(18:53):
And then um three other guys, apastor, a guy named Greg Reed,
profound influence in my life.
Uh uh, my dear friend RexGingrich, who I work for uh for
uh eight years, uh, taught me alot about business and just uh
really he took a chance on me inmaking that transition.
Uh and then Tom Anthony, uh whoI quoted at the very beginning.
(19:16):
Tom has just had a profoundinfluence on me as a human
being.
And and of course the Anthonyfamily, Dick as well.
Uh Dick's now 91 years old,still comes into the office a
couple days, uh, two, three daysa week, uh, still involved,
engaged, has some of thechallenges of people who are 91,
right?
But he's still at it.
(19:36):
And uh so I'm those are the thepeople who helped put me uh into
an opportunity that uh you knowI would have never imagined,
right?
I mean, you look back at yourlife and say, hey, how'd you get
there?
I have no idea.
I just I just I just kept tryingto do the basics.
I just showed up.
SPEAKER_02 (19:54):
What uh so you're talking about uh you know,
chasing the heart of your wife.
Um and you wrote a book, TheGolfer's Guide to Understanding
Your Wife.
What was some of the influencearound what made you want to
write that book?
And what what did you want towhat did you want other to tell
other people through that?
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Well, thankfully, again, again, I hope any of your
listeners don't go out and lookfor it.
It's out of print right nowbecause again, not forget I
actually am doing a re-edit ofthat.
I'm gonna just release it viaLinkedIn and give it away
because it was some of thehere's how it started, Ben.
I mean, I was in my late uh 20s,started playing golf when I was
12 years old.
My my uncle paid for me to have12 or five golf lessons as a
(20:36):
birthday present for my 12thbirthday, and so that got me
started playing golf.
My dad was not a golfer, I lovedthe game all my life.
Um, I wish it was a lot betterthan I uh I am, but you know
what?
I've had enough good shots totake me back, say I'm gonna go
play again.
SPEAKER_02 (20:52):
He's on the 18th T, too, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Yeah, that's right.
You know, yeah, usually you haveone shot.
Oh man, that's the best one I'veever had.
I think I'm gonna come back andplay.
Yeah.
Uh so there is a funny story ifI could take a minute.
Last night I was playing, I I Ilive on a uh a course that is
that's one where you can go out.
It's not highly played, so I cango out late at night and play
three or four holes.
(21:15):
So I got home late from uh froma trip to Mexico.
So I got home late.
I had about an hour of light.
My wife was off doing something,and so I went out and and played
uh what I call fast and furiousgolf.
So I just played really fast andI just am out there by myself.
It's just a release for me,right?
So I'm out there coming up the18th hole.
(21:36):
I hit a great drive and I hit agreat second shot.
I was the bad news is nobody wasthere to see either why.
So I'm out there myself.
Yeah.
So so I'm coming up to the to,and it was a part five of the
18th at our little course up inKokomo, Green Acres.
And so I I I chipped on um fromthere, and actually the ball was
(21:57):
on the green.
So man, I'm laying three, andand there's a bunch of guys who
had a Wednesday night golfleague, and they're up on the
there's a uh a veranda there,they're all looking over, and
they're all cutting up andlaughing and loud, and I'm not
paying attention to them.
And so I get up there and and Iand I it was a long ways.
I mean, I was like 40 feet away.
So anyway, long story short, Ileft it within 10 feet, and then
(22:19):
I just sunk the putt.
And there's a big roar on thecrowd, you know, and the guys
and the guy said, Oh, John, youjust wanted some money.
So they're up there on theirbetting on whether I'm gonna
fleep pot or not.
So I said, as I drove by overthe guys, I said, Well, whoever
believed in me, thank you.
You know, for those of you thatdidn't, I'm I'm glad you didn't,
(22:41):
you lost your money.
So, but but anyway, uh the bookum was really born out of um, I
was meeting with some young menand I knew my own what I wish I
would have applied, and takingsome of the principles and
skills from golf and applyingthem to your to your
relationship with your wife.
(23:03):
And so at that point, I was uh,you know, in my probably late,
late 30s, early 40s, and onvacation, I just started writing
down and uh and you know, whatwould I what's a principle from
golf that applies in myrelationship with my wife?
So I just started making somenotes and actually Ben, I did
this for, I'm gonna guess, for10 years.
(23:24):
I mean, I just took thisdocument out, I did it once a
year.
I just would write some thingsand eventually it it turned
into, I think there's 10chapters, and and I just took
these principles to share withother young men to are saying,
you know, I love golf or I lovesport, but I need to take the
same skill set and that I thethings I love about golf and
(23:48):
transfer them in my relationwith my wife.
And so that's what I did, andthen I put it into a format and
and then I published it a numberof years ago, I think it was
2013, and then I had a buddy whodid it, got it out there on
Amazon for me and all this kindof thing.
So my goal was never to, youknow, I was not anticipating
being a best-selling author.
(24:09):
That was not my joy.
My my goal was just to writesome of those things down and to
share them.
And and those are the thingsthat I've tried to do.
And let me give you, I'll giveyou an example of one.
So um, you know, uh I think it'schapter five, it's called pin
placement.
And so I, you know, you thinkabout every day somebody goes
(24:31):
out at the beginning of themorning and they change the
pins.
Well, and and the whole point ofthe analogy is that the golf
course is the heart of yourwife, right?
And and it's and there's allkinds of challenges, but the the
pursuing uh being connected toyour wife is the course.
That's the course.
(24:52):
And so um I I talked about pinplacement, and then I said, you
know, nobody stands up there andgets frustrated with the
groundskeeper because they, youknow, they change the pin
placement, right?
You say, okay, they're trying tokeep the course a little
challenging, right?
So today it's you know in theback left, and tomorrow it's in
the front right.
And I said, nobody runs down,you don't complain about the
grainskeeper.
(25:13):
I mean, everybody once in awhile, you know, hear these PGA
guys say, Oh, the pinplacement's so horrible.
But but you don't live in astate of frustration with the
groundskeeper.
He's just out there keeping thechallenge up for you.
And I said, so it's true.
And sometimes you in in yourwife, a lot of times I says men,
we get frustrated.
Our wife changed, changed hermind, and you know, the whole
(25:34):
stereotypes of your spouse whois, you know, doing that.
I said, look, don't getfrustrated.
It's just your wife keeping thechallenge up, it's helping you
realize that hey, you've got tocontinue to keep studying her.
And how, and and ourresponsibility as men and to be
good husbands, you got to studyand chase your wife for a
(25:55):
lifetime.
And that's what till death toyou part means.
And and so I was just trying tohelp other men learn what I was
learning and and using golfbecause I love it and I enjoy
it, and uh so trying to makethose transitions.
That's how it began.
That's a great analogy.
SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
I love that.
Um, you mentioned somethingearlier about uh being
co-vocational, and you weretalking about your uh role as a
pastor um and being in you knowin business as well, but that
wasn't your full-time gig.
Um, it kind of seems that thatmay be applicable to your new
(26:36):
role and the SVP of EmmyMission, uh being co-vocational
there uh to some extent.
Can you explain for us what howthis came about, uh your role?
Um, because it's probably notnecessarily there's probably not
a job description out therenecessarily for SVP of Mission.
(26:58):
And so this is something that'sreally has fingerprints of Emmy
all over it.
So what about that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Well, I think um I think Larry Gray, uh who's been
our our CEO since 2010, so TomAnthony, the the uh second
owner, again, Dick's son, uhsaid affectionately says he he
said he fired himself and hiredLarry.
So he was the CEO from 2005 to2010.
He he he will tell you, and I'muh I wasn't a very good CEO, so
(27:30):
you know, although he was, youknow, humbly speaking, he was a
very capable guy.
But Larry Gray, who was hestarted at Emmy in 2001, became
um the CEO.
So it's it's since since 2010.
And I think Larry is a he's justa visionary kind of guy, and
he's he's a strategic guy, andour company's grown really uh
(27:51):
under his leadership in anexponential kind of way.
And uh the I think therelationship that Tom and Larry
had, uh I mean, Tom's heart isthis is the mission.
And and and Larry is the thatthat practical, okay.
Well, how are we gonna live thisout?
So our four values, honor God,serve people, really is is
(28:13):
really the love God, love peopleelement of what Jesus taught.
And deliver excellence, growprofitably is really, I think,
uh what probably you could saythe disciples lived out to help
cause the mission of the churchto expand, right?
You gotta do things right andwell, and you gotta be able to
(28:34):
duplicate it and profit over andover and over again.
I mean, money is simply thescorecard, in my opinion.
It's how we keep score.
Um, and and it represents theopportunity to do other really
cool things.
And and I say, so with thatmindset, Larry captured that and
and Larry has a combination ofboth.
(28:56):
And Larry um said to me, andJulie Cooley, who has been with
uh our team in in thecommunications area, said, John
and Julie, I want to pair upyour strengths, and and uh
Julie's gonna focus more on thetactical uh HR elements of
things and the approvement ofsome things that that um her
(29:18):
communication skill and her viewof hey, how we're gonna do this.
Uh so she stepped into that rulerole.
Um and then I and John, I wantyou to focus on our missional
elements.
So uh and and really that has todo with succession, leadership
development, um uh continuingthat that training and
(29:41):
development organization thateverything everybody has to do.
We got to continue to reign uhtrain leaders, and then I also
want you to say, how do we livethis mission throughout the
world?
So, because we have locationsnow in China, uh since 2012 in
the United Kingdom, uh we had aplant in Slovakia for a period
(30:01):
of time, and then we have aplant in Mexico as well as six
in the US.
So, with that balance, how doyou drive your mission through
the organization and keep itconsistent?
And so that's what my focus nowis.
It's really something I'vealways been doing for the last
11 years, except now he's justletting me focus on it and
(30:22):
liberating me to do that.
And then we also have afoundation.
So, like a lot of organizations,um, that family taught us that
we give.
So we give a percentage of ourprofits to a foundation.
Uh, that foundation is now runby uh 15 of our ME team members.
Um, I have the opportunity tonow be the executive director of
(30:45):
that foundation, and I simplyfacilitate those uh those monies
that are dispersed uh monthly.
We meet every week 50 weeks, uh,50 weeks a year.
We meet every Friday.
Our commitment is to that, andwe meet for uh for an hour and
we go over, you know, the stateof the business in terms of the
(31:06):
foundation, and then how we'regonna mobilize resources and get
them into the hands of peopleand organizations who are uh
fanning the flames of theChristian mission around the
world.
SPEAKER_02 (31:17):
Yeah, wow.
I so Emmy as a business hasalways been, you know, and this
is externally from myperspective, like a quiet
leader, and quiet in the senseof like you guys aren't chasing
publicity, or you're not you'renot, you know, you're you you
(31:41):
guys are just doing what youthink is right for your
business, but but you're leadingin the fact that it is known
that Emmy is a faith-friendlyplace, and all those things that
you said otherwise, um, andthere's really faith as the
knitting of how you guys runyour business and what your
(32:03):
desires are as a business.
Um, one that's been incredibleto watch, first and foremost.
Um, and that's been and thenthankfully I've had somewhat of
a an inner circle seat as we'vedone business together.
Um, but I just want to, youknow, formally say thank you for
what you guys have done as abusiness in that area.
(32:26):
And the the question element ofthat is um, you know, what what
challenges or how does that howdoes that work in a business
where, and maybe most of ourlisteners don't know, Emmy is
not a small-time business.
You just listed off a bunch ofdifferent countries that you
guys do business in with youknow over a thousand employees.
(32:49):
And I think a lot of business,businesses that have that
desire, um, and I know from ourperspective, we're much, much
smaller than you guys are.
And as we grow, you know,there's opportunity for for for
that to be difficult or for itto be watered down or whatever
that may be, um, or maybe justto lose focus about it and just
(33:10):
to be about business.
How have you guys maintainedfocus and and how do you guys do
that with so many employees?
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Uh great question, Ben.
And I thank you.
First off, let me say thanks foryou know the the the accolades
or whatever saying, hey, keepgoing.
And and certainly that's one ofthe things that we're excited
about to be a part of.
And we want to continue to saywhat can we do to encourage
others?
We don't have a formula, uh,we've got a story, and maybe
(33:41):
that story will inspire otherpeople.
And that's our goal as itrelates to the foundation that
uh the Anthony's laid, and thenum and then what we're trying to
lay and live out today.
Um, and yeah, and we areactually now we're 2,400
employees all over.
So it's crazy that uh that'sthat's the number.
(34:01):
When I first came, it was likeuh 1300 or so, and so we've
expanded uh by God's grace, andwe've ebbed and flowed, and
we've opened plants, we've hadto close plants, and and just
like all the nature of business,and those are hard things.
I mean, those are businessdecisions.
So I would uh that that say,hey, this is we've got to be
successful in these areas.
(34:23):
And how do you do that?
Because, you know, when we haduh we've had furloughs of
people, we've had to lay offpeople, we've had to release
people at different times in ourbusiness, and consequently, I
mean, then then here's the thebiggest challenge.
Anytime you put God in yourmission statement and and you're
(34:43):
you have to do and make a hardbusiness decision somehow, um,
then you become a target ofcriticism, additional criticism.
And hey, that's all part of it.
It's okay.
Um, but I think the genuineheart of it, the heart of what
we're trying to do is, you know,we genuinely care about people
(35:04):
and and how do we live that out?
And that's part of the practicalways of living it consistently
every day.
I mean, one of the things aboutwhat do we mean by honor God,
well, that's to to to have withintegrity, respect, compassion,
treating others with grace andhumility.
Well, integrity means that, andwe try to teach us this, and
(35:27):
that is integrity says, okay,this is the game I want to play.
The reality is all of us play agame that's not as good as the
one we say we play.
Right?
So anytime you have a valuestatement or a mission
statement, just like when I gotmarried, I couldn't live up to
the vows exactly every day.
(35:48):
You know, I is a company.
I there's a gap between what wesay and what we live.
Now, if you go to church, youknow, you go walk into church
life, they call you, well,you're a hypocrite.
I'm not going to church becauseof the hypocrites.
Well, okay, that's right.
There are a lot of hypocrites atchurch, right?
Because everybody talks abouther game than they play.
(36:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (36:09):
So Jesus is a pretty high bar that uh, you're not
gonna be perfect, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
So the point is the same thing as an organization.
So you set a high bar, but we'renot gonna shoot 100%, right?
The best in the world don'tshoot 100%.
Nobody's always gonna be thepark offer.
Everybody, you know, you'regonna have those mistakes.
And so integrity is the wordactually comes with the word
integer, which means one, whichmeans the narrow the gap from
(36:39):
what we say to what we do.
And so in the manufacturingworld, we call that continuous
improvement.
Kaizan, that's continuousimprovement.
And and the theological word issanctification, how you grow and
change to get better.
Um, and so I think the biggestthing is to continue to convey,
to be honest about yourfailures, right?
(37:00):
And and keep in a humbleposition and then recognize that
we're trying to befaith-oriented.
But I often tell people in ourorientation classes when I get a
chance to talk, look, don't beweird about it.
I mean, sometimes you can be,you know, uh more spiritual than
Jesus, I think.
Okay, so that's that's whathappens with I think
(37:22):
religiousness in every context,right?
There's every religious systemthat you get too many people who
get aggressive on either end.
Um and we see that we, you know,we call it radical Christianity
or radical Islam or radicalwhatever.
And it's easy to get out to theedges of things instead of
(37:43):
saying, look, hey, just do thebasics and live it out and let
your life reflect what youbelieve.
And I think trying to get givepeople the freedom of that.
And if that's nothing or peoplearen't ready for that, that's
okay, right?
We don't we we make thingsavailable like and you talk
about how do we live it out?
(38:04):
Well, we make things availableat like Bible study, but we
don't make anybody come, wedon't take attendance, we don't
do that.
We make it available for people,we bring in speakers, we might
we provide a lunch for those youchoose to attend, but other
people can take the extra houror extra the extra time and go
go out to Wendy's or do whateverthey want to do, get together
(38:26):
with people that they want totalk to.
One of the things that we didwith the uh we call uh we we
send out a weekly what we calliCore, Emmy Core.
Uh uh the the Emmy Core of whowe are is a story of the Anthony
family.
So it's something from a bookthat Dick wrote uh when he was
80 years old.
And so we send it out every weekand we discuss it and say, okay,
(38:48):
what are the principles thatDick learned?
And it's a great resource.
It's like the the thinking ofthe business thinking of the
Anthony family.
So we do that.
Um, I'm doing this podcast, Istarted a podcast internally
that tells the stories of someof our members.
We call it on mission.
So, how what are they doing intheir own lives to live on
mission?
Much like you guys are trying todo here with me, giving me an
(39:11):
opportunity to share.
And I appreciate it.
So we're doing that internallyat this point.
It's not released to the public,it's just more of an internal
tool to encourage people to getto know one another.
Um, and then we talk about ourmission, vision, values at every
turn.
It's it begins in our interviewprocess, it's in our
(39:31):
orientation.
Uh, we talk about it, it's evensome in our discipline process
that look, I mean, this isn'tconsistent with what we are
trying to become.
And if you either change yourways or live in a in a direct
way, if it's not, if it's notdelivering excellence or growing
profitable, or it's not someelement of serving others, it's
not respectful to people.
Um, you know, good common senseHR stuff that says treat people
(39:56):
well, right?
Live the golden rule, and uh uhyet you won't have a problem.
So I think that's how we aretrying to live it out in
practical ways.
SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
John, for over 60 years, Emmy's been uh
manufacturing stuff, and uh it'smostly been in that safety
harness space.
And for the entire inception,while it may have been called
something different, you guyshave always been faith-friendly,
right?
Yes, that's correct, true to thecore.
Um when when your organization,you got 60 years of experience,
(40:29):
when your organization goes outand buys stuff, buys services,
buys material in yourmanufacturing process.
What what rubric, what filter,what grid do you run through as
it relates to thatfaith-friendly with your
internal team?
You mentioned, hey, you canbelieve something about God or
nothing about God and still workat Emmy.
(40:51):
Is there a similar path that youuse for vendors?
How do you guys think throughthat?
I'm very interested becauseyou've done it now for 60 years
and you've done it acrossmultiple generations.
So you I know you've you youhave some lessons learned
through that.
How do you approach that?
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
Well, I think I think the thing to me is the
deliver excellence.
The door into that is theexcellence piece.
So you find partners who are whoare sick who are committed to
excellence in what they deliver.
And what we have found overtime, I think, is as you pursue
other organizations and partnerwith organizations who are
(41:31):
committed to excellence, atcore, ultimately you'll get down
to the elements of of principlesor truths that are universal,
regardless of whether youconnect them to Christian
thought or Buddhist thought orIslamic thought or whatever,
there's a lot of systems ofthought that are in the stream
(41:52):
of, okay, hey, that's excellent.
That's well, that's a that'sdone with with precision.
And so we let that drive, Ibelieve, and hey, who can
deliver the goods?
Who can who wants to partnerwith us to see our vision to
bring safety to people aroundthe world?
And so since we've been doingthat, everything from child
seats, now one of our biggestareas is in bus seat
(42:13):
manufacturing where we're tryingto convince the world to put
three-point harnesses on ourkids in school buses.
And we now partner with thethree major, four major
manufacturers to do so.
So Thomas Built bus, IC bus,Bluebird bus, and Collins bus.
All four have our seat systemson them now.
Wow.
(42:33):
And that has been a 25 plus yearjourney where we're trying to
say, look, hey, just put yourkid in a three-point harness.
Well, school districts as aMozart, still aren't doing it.
Only eight states require it.
But actually, Bluebird is one ofthose that's saying, hey, we're
getting serious, more seriousabout safety.
And so we're gonna make it partof just what we do.
(42:55):
So I think that's coming and itwill.
I mean, years, 10 years fromnow, I think you're gonna have
all kids in school bus seats,uh, and we're gonna have that
buckle on there, I hope, uh,because that's our goal.
Our goal is to be the theprimary provider of that in the
market.
And so that's a couple of areas.
Now we actually have uh, youknow, eight other major areas of
(43:16):
market.
So you think, Todd, of it, Imean, our safety systems are on
anything that's not in a car,not in an airplane, and not in
an amusement park.
So anything else that you canthink of, we have a buckle or a
strap that rich, you know, helpspeople stay safe.
And now we're steering wheelsand airbags and other things
that are are making adifference.
(43:37):
Uh, with with uh like Bluebird,Bluebirds are gonna have the
first bus driver uh airbag uhsystem in it.
And uh hard to believe that, butmost school buses don't have
airbag systems for the driver,so it's unconscionable.
We would think of it, and youknow, we don't get in a car that
doesn't have an airbag, but uhwe now will have that in terms
(43:59):
of uh we're working withBluebird to do that, and so
that's a really cool that's thekind of finding who wants to be
a part of that excellence, andthen when you commit yourself to
excellence, the principles toget there, right?
Um like integrity, like uh andand uh honesty and transparency
(44:22):
and uh intentionality andgrowing people and all of those
other things, you can't doexcellent work consistently
without committing to principlesthat are timeless.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
Wow.
You know, as I hear you talk,you keep talking safety, but I
hear a different word.
I hear that your product savespeople, but I also hear that
your culture has a realopportunity to save people.
SPEAKER_01 (44:49):
Yeah.
Well, uh actually, uh there'sone of our videos that we use of
a young uh of a I should say ayoung lady who worked for us,
but no, she's now worked for usfor 30 plus years, uh, Trina,
and she's been she talks about,you know, uh Emmy is really, and
she her phrase she uses, Emmyisn't exist just to save lives,
(45:09):
they exist to save souls.
And so she captured it.
And while we don't use that kindof as a tag, um, it is really
hard.
Uh Todd, I'm glad you capturedit because that's really the
heart of Emmy.
Um, those that uh want to gothat direction, uh we're gonna
cast the net and invite theminto that truth.
But uh those that don't, we'regonna love you and care about
(45:30):
you, and that's okay.
We're gonna treat you with greatwith care and respect.
And if that's not your thing,that's all right.
And that's one of the balancesthat we try to live with.
Um, how do you treat people withcare and respect who don't think
the way you think and believesomething different than you do?
And and trying to do that in ain a good way, um, still be
diverse organizations, stillhave people who think
(45:52):
differently, live differently,come at life differently.
Uh, that's tough.
It's tough to maintain.
Uh, and we get criticized fornot doing it well enough.
Uh, yeah.
I mean, that's part of living.
SPEAKER_02 (46:05):
It's part of living.
Um, but I will tell you thisagain, we've been had the joy
and pleasure of working with youguys for quite some time, and
you guys are the real deal.
So, regardless of you know,whatever criticism there is, or
that one time you guys didn'tmeet the mark, I know from what
I've seen that your guys'intentionality and your desire
(46:27):
to uh uphold your values andcare for your people just never
wavers.
That's that that really is yourdriving force.
So I've just really appreciateduh seeing that.
SPEAKER_01 (46:38):
Um John, the feelings mutual Ben, and I
appreciate uh Connor Insuranceof what you guys have done to
help us.
Uh yeah, uh Ben and I oftenlaugh about uh a season when I,
in a moment of weakness, leftBen in the advisory group for
three years.
Uh and and uh it was myultimately myself and my
decision, and and I regrettedit.
(47:00):
It's one of the decisions Iregret leaving Connor Insurance.
So uh you guys have been a greatpartner, and uh uh you've you've
never held it over my head, butI'll never forget it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
Yeah, you bring it up way more than you need to,
that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
That's good.
I appreciate all this.
SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
It makes for a good story at this point, John.
SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
So it does, it makes for a much better story.
SPEAKER_02 (47:21):
Well, um, we usually close our episode with two
questions for our guest.
Um, so I'll ask the first one.
Um, what is a what is I guess Ineed to uh what is a risk you
have taken that has changed yourlife?
SPEAKER_01 (47:39):
I'd say I mean I go back to the the the risk of
marriage.
I mean, marriage is a risk.
I mean, well over 50% still enda divorce.
Um it it's a life-changingexperience that for those who
believe it's theirs and notmarriage isn't for everybody.
There's a great blessing forthose who are single, and I
(47:59):
believe in that.
And uh I I have a friend who whois single, and I tell her, I
said, We need to get you at-shirt, says, I'm single.
If it's good enough for Jesus,it's good enough for me.
But uh, but anyway, the uh so Ithink to me that that's the
greatest, the greatest risk I'veever taken was to to um to risk
(48:25):
on another person and to make adeclaration that I knew I didn't
know I couldn't commitcompletely to, right?
But I mean you've tried to liveyour vows and be true and
faithful and all the things thatyou would expect, but uh in
every detail.
Boy, uh so I'm so thankful forfor that uh risk I took.
And uh I mean the rest of allthe others are calculated risks,
(48:49):
and so they're they pale incomparison.
unknown (48:52):
Yeah, scattered.
SPEAKER_00 (48:53):
John, you've had a winding road professionally and
personally as well.
Many different states, manyactually different types of
occupations have gotten you tothis place.
I pray you have a very longroad.
So the last question is what isleft yet unfinished that you
have the resolve to complete?
SPEAKER_01 (49:10):
Ah, well, that's that's a great question.
And I'm I'm at the pivotal pointof that.
I just turned 61.
Um, and uh when I was 27 yearsold, I wrote down the things
that I wanted to accomplish inmy life.
I was very detailed in terms ofthose things.
At the age of 53, I'daccomplished 73% of the things
on my list.
Um, and and this something thatI had updated over and over
(49:32):
again in years, and and uh someof them things, some of the
things shouldn't have been onthe list anyway.
So again, there's things at 27you think that's a dude, that's
a stupid idea.
SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
Are you giving right now the freedom to not do those
things?
SPEAKER_01 (49:46):
Yeah, I yeah, I'm I'm not I'm deleting those.
I'm not doing that.
Okay, but the other thing isTodd, to answer your question,
is um I I believe uh I'd like toshoot for one third left.
So if I'd like to live to be 90.
Uh, and if I could, what would Ido in the next 30 years?
So right now I'm in the processof reforming and taking, okay,
(50:07):
what do I want to see in thenext 30 years?
And and the biggest thing is Iwant to be faithful as a as a
man, I want to be faithful as ahusband, I want to be faithful
as a deliverer to the nextgeneration, those things that I
learned that were helpful, andto not become a distraction to
those who are coming behind.
And um, so that's my goal,right?
(50:27):
It's just to not become adistraction, to be, to be really
uh helpful to other people.
And uh so I'm looking forward toit.
I believe that many times thelast third of life uh is
actually the most productive forpeople.
If you do some studies inhistory and those kind of
things, many people accomplishedincredible things in the last
third of their life.
(50:48):
Um, I mean, think about thisJesus lived 90% of his life, 30
years before he did one publicthing.
And then actually three years offlurry.
Um, Moses lived two-thirds ofhis life.
He was 80 before he led thechildren of Israel out of uh
there.
Abraham was 102 of his175-year-old life.
(51:11):
So two-thirds of life was gone.
There's a lot of history andstories of that.
And so I just want to befaithful in the last uh third, I
hope, of my life.
And if it's all done tomorrow,it's okay.
I've I've uh by God's gracelived a very great life.
And I tell my kids all the time,if uh if if I'm gone someday,
don't feel don't feel sorry forme.
Yeah.
(51:31):
I mean, I hope you cry at leastfor 24 hours, but you know, you
know, I hope you're a littlesad, but but uh I've lived a
wonderful life and um and I'vebeen very thankful and had lots
of opportunities uh to live afulfilling experience.
And I hope that people get achance to chase those things and
and just live it.
(51:52):
Live with passion.
Whatever you do, chase it withall you got, and uh, and and
you'll look back and think, man,that's what I was supposed to
chase.
Awesome.
Thanks, John.
SPEAKER_02 (52:01):
Well, John, uh, thanks for joining us today.
Um, I've appreciated again theprofessional relationship, but
also building building afriendship over the last decade.
So uh thanks again for joiningus today on the Risk and Resolve
Pod.
And thanks to our listeners, andwe'll see you next time.
You're listening to Risk and Resolve.
SPEAKER_02 (00:09):
Welcome back to another episode of The Risk and
Resolve Pod.
I am your co-host, Ben Connor,alongside Todd Hufford.
Today, our special guest is JohnTice.
John is the SVP of Mission andEmmy.
John, how are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
Oh, great.
Great to talk with you, Ben andTodd, and uh just looking
forward to our conversation.
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_02 (00:35):
Yeah, you're welcome.
Awesome.
Um, so John, he also founded andspearheads Emmy's Emmy Serves
Global Initiative, givingemployees two paid volunteer
days.
And you've also authored a bookuh that is the golfer's guide to
understanding your wife.
(00:56):
Yes, man of many talents, anauthor.
Um, but yeah, John, um, you'vebeen with Emmy.
Uh, I've looked it up.
Uh, you started in July of 2014.
I actually remember the firsttime we went and grabbed lunch
together down in the ClayTerrace area.
Um, but tell us a little bitabout the days before Emmy and
(01:19):
your journey um personally andprofessionally.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
Well, no, that's great.
Yeah, 11 years here at Emmy,it's just been a wonderful
journey, great company,family-owned organization since
1961, uh by the Anthony family,um, became an Aesop in 2022.
So that's the Emmy story alittle bit.
But my story, um, I would beginwith one of the things that Tom
Anthony, who our uh is DickAnthony, his uh his son, uh,
(01:47):
taught me.
And we were talking one time interms of he said, John, you
know, I've realized that reallyuh I'm just a turtle on a fence
post.
And I thought, that's so true.
And I look at my life.
Uh I mean a turtle on a fencepost, you know that somebody had
to do something to get theturtle there.
And and uh somebody had to helpthat turtle.
(02:09):
And I would say, you know, Ilook at my life and early on,
you know, you're you're full ofuh, at least I was, full of self
and self and goals and all thethings that I thought I wanted
to do and accomplish.
And of course, over time I thinklife has a way of humbling you
and um getting you to a placewhere you're ready to receive.
(02:33):
And and then when you're readyto really receive from uh life,
you're ready to give.
So my my story, I was I was uhborn in New Jersey with uh to
some uh a dad who's a businessowner and and a grandfather and
all of that, and spent six yearsin New Jersey, six years in
South Carolina because he becamean administrator uh at a
(02:54):
university.
I spent six years in NorthCarolina.
So if you were to say, where didI really grow up?
I would have said I grew up inNorth Carolina, spent from uh
age 12 to 18, uh all of mygrowing up years, all the fun
things you do, sports,athletics, uh of every kind.
And and I love my North Carolinadays in a town called Dollsboro,
(03:15):
North Carolina.
So uh it was a great experience.
Went off to college, uh, went toa uh private Christian school in
in South Carolina where my dadhad been an administrator.
So that was a great experience.
Met my one wonderful wife, gotmarried at 21, uh, and uh been
married now 39 years.
So uh it's been a fantastic uhjourney.
(03:36):
Uh she might not say it's beenfantastic the whole time, but I
would.
So but uh for for me it's beenquite a journey.
Um came out of of college, thefirst 20 years of my life worked
in the not-for-profit world inthe in church life.
So uh my father led leftbusiness and became a pastor.
(03:56):
Um, I kind of followed in hisfootsteps, became a worked with
youth pastors and and taught ina Christian school for uh a
little while, coached and allused my sports and athletics.
And then uh for uh about 20years into that that life, I got
really frustrated with some ofthe organizational elements of
(04:18):
church life.
Uh and I don't know if that'shappened in other people's
lives, but uh and I and I justsaid, uh God, would you give me
an opportunity to get in this inthe business community?
And and uh by God's grace, Idid.
Uh I had a friend who took achance on me and said, John,
you've you're used to workingwith people and that kind of
thing.
And hey, let us come help yougrow our people.
(04:39):
And that's really what I went,worked for at a car dealership,
um, uh Sherry Auto Auto Grouphere in in Indiana.
I had since moved to there, andthen through that uh met the
Anthony family, and uh then Tomcame and said, John, hey, come
help us do at a global level uhwhat you've been doing here in
(04:59):
Indiana locally.
So uh went from 250 plusemployees to at that point, uh
Amy had about 1,300 employees,and since then we've doubled
again in size almost.
So uh been in the HR space inthose last 20 years, and uh
really now have shifted intothis focus on the missional
(05:21):
elements of Amy's mission, uh,which is to uh by God's grace
maintain a dynamic growingbusiness with a Christian
impact.
So uh, and we do that by livingour values, honor God, serve
people, deliver excellence, andgrow profitably.
So, in a brief snapshot, that'sthe life and times of the turtle
on the fence post.
SPEAKER_02 (05:40):
What uh what brought what specifically brought you to
Indiana?
Was it that job or was theresomething else that struck the
match and coming to Indiana?
SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Well, you know, um my wife had followed me around
in my dreams, like a lot ofgreat spouses do.
You know, men, we dream bigdreams, and and uh our wives
really are the ones who not onlypay the price sometimes, but
then also are thankfully verycommitted to us as human beings.
And I uh my wife followed mearound all over.
(06:09):
She was an Indiana girl, grew upin uh Middletown, Indiana, uh,
went to uh Indiana ChristianAcademy, uh, grew up here in
this local area, and then herfather passed away uh and left
her mother a widow.
And I I said at that time, Isaid there's certainly got to be
some church work or somethingthat can be done in the state of
Indiana.
(06:30):
I said, honey, I'll try to findsome place.
And and actually I didn't haveto look very hard.
I had a connection.
I I just said to him, hey, I'mlooking for something in
Indiana, and you know somebody,and the next thing you know, I'm
in Kokomo, Indiana.
And uh so we in 1993 we moved touh to Kokomo.
Now I was 29 at the time, and Idid tell you I grew up in um I
(06:53):
grew up in North Carolina, butmy wife would say I grew up in
Indiana because clearly I wasn'tat 29 quite grown up yet.
So she uh she says, Yeah, Johngrew up in Indy in Indiana.
So, well, maybe I did.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
That's great.
So another thing I think that'sreally fascinating about your
story that I've I've caught overover the years is not only are
you creating a lot of impact inthe professional world at Emmy
and even before Emmy, but you'reyou're a pastor also.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:28):
So talk a little bit about that.
Most people, when they'repastors, like that's a full-time
gig.
And and you you're you you dothat as I guess a hobby.
I don't know.
What would you call it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
Yeah, well, I'm I'm not part of a bowling league or
a golf league, so youeverybody's gotta everybody's
gotta do something on theweekend.
So uh no, I actually been uhwhen I uh left the formal, I
kind of set out for about a yearin terms of the formal church
structure when I um I and I justneeded kind of a break.
Uh nothing had happened in amajor kind of way in church
(08:00):
life.
I just knew it was burning meout personally, and I needed it
uh and I needed a differentfocus.
And I'd always enjoyed businessagain.
My father, grandfather were bothbusiness owners.
I've always enjoyed the thethrill of of making a sale and
being part of that and and uhnegotiating and all those kind
(08:20):
of things.
Um and so the what happened wasit's just like I laid out for
about a year, and then I had alittle church in our local
community who actually was thethe the um the church that the
owner who of the car dealershipwas working for said John, I
said we needed somebody to comespeak, we're without a pastor.
And so I started doing that withanother retired pastor and
(08:43):
started speaking on a regularbasis, actually uh with less
than a year from when I had uhuh left that full-time church
gig.
And um and and then I just keptdoing that.
And uh and I do have a passionfor uh helping people discover
faith or come back to faith.
Um I really am passionate aboutit personally and try to help a
(09:05):
lot of people over the years intheir in their get get their
guidance back to God or to Godand and um believing that you
know we all worship something,and so so helping people
understand and discover faith uhand in the God of the Bible is
what I've spent my personal lifedoing and have always done,
(09:25):
actually, since uh I came tofaith at 18 myself.
So it's just part of my story,right?
And everybody's got thatjourney.
And so when I did that, um, thechurch continued to say, Hey
John, would you just do this allthe time?
And I said, Well, no, I won't doit all the time.
I said, But I'll be yourfull-time, part-time pastor if
that's what you want.
And so that's how that begun,and that's how it has continued.
(09:47):
Now, thankfully, now the churchhas uh it's uh continued to ebb
and flow like churches do, butwe have two full-time pastors
that work full-time.
So I've been mentoring two youngmen who, in some in time, I'm
gonna hand the baton off to oneof those, uh, two of those guys,
however, they work that out.
But so I have a small staff, Ihave a little church in Kokomo,
(10:07):
first congregational church indowntown Kokomo.
Um, so I do that in terms ofprovide some leadership and
teaching experience, uh, and andthen they do the day-to-day in
terms of caring for people andthose kind of things.
And so I stay involved withthat.
So I call it beingco-vocational.
You know, uh, by means todivide, co-means to bring
(10:28):
together.
And so I've always tried toseamlessly bring my life
together into one unit, um,because we have enough things
that divide us, and so I'm justtrying to live out that in lots
of different contexts, andthat's all that's how uh that's
how we do it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
That's great, John.
You mentioned uh back in 2022,not too very long ago, the IMI,
which for years we all calledIMMI, yes, right?
Got a little bit of a namechange, uh, or at least how you
pronounce it, went and became anAesop.
Uh some people listening may bepart of a company that's an
ESOP, or you may have ownerslistening that are have thought
(11:08):
about converting their companyto an ESOP.
You were, I think, still on thatHR role.
Um, yes.
I bet you had a big hand incommunicating to the people you
were stewarding as to what thismeant to them.
Take us back to, I guess, 2020,2021.
How did that communicationstart?
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Well, I mean, first off, it's born in the heart of
the of the ownership family, theAnthony's.
And really, it's it's about uh,in some sense, the title of your
uh your organization, your yourpod, uh Risk and Resolve.
Uh Tom Anthony was uh and Shellyhad had really considered the
(11:49):
our mission statement.
And uh, and they were lookingacross their family, and there
was no one who was really uh asuccessor, if you will, someone
who would say, you know, hey, Iwant to take this and I want to
manage and lead the business.
And as Tom thought about thatparticularly, and then he really
just said, you know, hey, I'mconcerned about our mission,
(12:10):
that it get lost.
Um that unique uhfaith-oriented, we call it
faith-friendly, but notfaith-forced, forced organ uh
emphasis.
Uh, we tell people often you canbelieve something about God or
nothing about God and be fine towork at Emmy.
But the the element of faith inthe marketplace was something
(12:32):
that the Anthony family had laida great foundation for.
And because of that, Tom said, Iit's gotta be mission
preservation.
So that's what began in thoseconversations.
And I think I remember hementioned something to me again,
maybe late 2021.
And obviously, all these thingswere very quietly done and
(12:53):
thought through.
And so, but um, our our CEO,Larry Gray and uh Norm Gould,
who is our uh CFO really, andour legal counsel, Matt King,
all together um really laid thefoundation for that with Tom.
And we're just fulfilling whathis desire was, he and his wife
(13:14):
Shelly, to say, look, we want tohand this to the people.
And so uh the east flops arefascinating.
Employee stock ownership plan.
I began to do a lot of readingmyself personally, so I began to
understand it.
And so, yes, I sat in a lot ofmeetings and I uh really was uh
amazed at the this program thatactually began in 1974 in the
(13:35):
US, which enables uh people, uhorganizations to do some amazing
things, allowing people tobecome owners.
It's it's really the foundationof business ownership.
And so um now that people cancan come and be a part of that,
and then and they're an emmy forthey're 20 years old and they
(13:56):
work a thousand hours in oneyear, and they become a part of
the eSOP and they begin to earnstock in the company.
So we're four years into it now,officially.
So by the you you you youmentioned the question about the
you know, the the how do youcommunicate it?
Well, it I would say it's reallyhard for people to get their
minds wrapped around it.
It was for it was for me.
(14:17):
Uh to just it's a mind-bending,uh it's very complicated, but
the simple thing is I think ourpeople are beginning to
understand that.
We just had our fourthvaluation.
Um, it people are beginning tolook at their statements
alongside of their 401k andthinking, wow, that's that's
real money.
And so I think uh peoplecontinue to earn shares.
(14:39):
Our stock is continue toappreciate, doesn't mean it will
every year, and trying to conveyto people, you know, just like
the stock market, it could go upand down.
Um, but uh so it's important forus to convey that message to,
you know, hey, what you do everyday matters, and and our
profitability as an organizationmatters, and then we want to
share that with with our people.
(14:59):
So, but overall, Todd, peopleare really getting it, and it's
it's a it's gonna be a big dealfor people uh off into the
future.
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
You mentioned uh the turtle, and uh, of course, if
you you kind of left it therefor a moment and then finished
it for those that have neverheard that analogy that you know
turtles can't get on a on a postby themselves, on a fence post.
So, who who are some of thosepeople that you haven't already
mentioned that that got you tothe places that you have gotten
to?
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Well, I mean, certainly most folks would say
they're mom and dad.
And and I hope, right?
There's a lot of people who itit almost puts a lump in my
throat because there's a lot ofpeople that don't have the start
that many of us have had.
Um, and my father, you know,clearly strong work ethic and a
strong understanding of um whatI call a businessman's view of
(15:53):
God.
That you got stuff to do and youbetter get after it.
My dad was very, I mean, he wasuh high, high type A, very
driven.
Um very uh he was an executivelevel type leader all his life
and started things and wasinvolved in in community
(16:14):
organizations and he modeledthat kind of intensity, uh,
sometimes you know, almost toointense.
Those of you, those of us menwho have fathers who are intense
guys, um you can you can getcaught up into that.
And then a mother who was youknow often provided that balance
and balance.
And my mom, I'll tell you thisyou think about one thing you
(16:36):
can say about your mother, shejust taught me to love Jesus.
I mean, it's all about who he isas a person, it was nothing more
than that.
And so I remember walking by herroom many, many times, and my
mom being on her knees, and Icould hear her pray for me.
And that's pretty powerfulstuff.
But then from there, I wouldsay, um, I had a uh a college
(16:57):
peer, uh college roommate, RossRobinson, who was a profound
influence on my life, and itreally was a great guy.
Gotten emotional because uh Iappreciate the question, Todd,
because it's it's moving whenyou think about the people that
uh have been used in your life.
And then um I would say threeother people outside of my wife.
(17:18):
Obviously, my wife uh uh whenyou you when you choose
somebody, I think I've toldmany, many times when you stand
up there and tell somebody, youknow, I love you and I cherish
you until death just part, andI've said to people many times,
I don't have the faintest cluewhat I meant.
Okay, I had no idea what thatmeant.
(17:40):
Uh, you know, being honest aboutthat.
SPEAKER_02 (17:44):
Well, uh you know, I think that makes three of us.
SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
Yeah, goodness, you know, you're sick and man, I
love you till death to uspartners.
I have no idea what that means.
Uh, but I think uh what I'velearned through my wife has just
been her constancy and and herconsistency and her just who she
is as a person.
And I failed to appreciate thatwell in my first 10 years of
(18:10):
marriage.
You know, I was talking withsome young men the other the
other day, and I said, you know,and a young guy's getting ready
to have a uh child, first child,and he was asking the question,
hey, what advice would you give?
And and the advice I gave was,man, don't miss your the value
of your wife and and don't be sobusy chasing other stuff that
(18:33):
you think is gonna sad, youknow, the the thing, right?
Uh but I think I missed theheart of my wife in my first 10
years of marriage.
And the last 30, almost 30 oryears, I've really tried to
chase her heart a lot better andhaven't done it perfectly.
But so she's a profoundinfluence.
(18:53):
And then um three other guys, apastor, a guy named Greg Reed,
profound influence in my life.
Uh uh, my dear friend RexGingrich, who I work for uh for
uh eight years, uh, taught me alot about business and just uh
really he took a chance on me inmaking that transition.
Uh and then Tom Anthony, uh whoI quoted at the very beginning.
(19:16):
Tom has just had a profoundinfluence on me as a human
being.
And and of course the Anthonyfamily, Dick as well.
Uh Dick's now 91 years old,still comes into the office a
couple days, uh, two, three daysa week, uh, still involved,
engaged, has some of thechallenges of people who are 91,
right?
But he's still at it.
(19:36):
And uh so I'm those are the thepeople who helped put me uh into
an opportunity that uh you knowI would have never imagined,
right?
I mean, you look back at yourlife and say, hey, how'd you get
there?
I have no idea.
I just I just I just kept tryingto do the basics.
I just showed up.
SPEAKER_02 (19:54):
What uh so you're talking about uh you know,
chasing the heart of your wife.
Um and you wrote a book, TheGolfer's Guide to Understanding
Your Wife.
What was some of the influencearound what made you want to
write that book?
And what what did you want towhat did you want other to tell
other people through that?
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
Well, thankfully, again, again, I hope any of your
listeners don't go out and lookfor it.
It's out of print right nowbecause again, not forget I
actually am doing a re-edit ofthat.
I'm gonna just release it viaLinkedIn and give it away
because it was some of thehere's how it started, Ben.
I mean, I was in my late uh 20s,started playing golf when I was
12 years old.
My my uncle paid for me to have12 or five golf lessons as a
(20:36):
birthday present for my 12thbirthday, and so that got me
started playing golf.
My dad was not a golfer, I lovedthe game all my life.
Um, I wish it was a lot betterthan I uh I am, but you know
what?
I've had enough good shots totake me back, say I'm gonna go
play again.
SPEAKER_02 (20:52):
He's on the 18th T, too, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:55):
Yeah, that's right.
You know, yeah, usually you haveone shot.
Oh man, that's the best one I'veever had.
I think I'm gonna come back andplay.
Yeah.
Uh so there is a funny story ifI could take a minute.
Last night I was playing, I I Ilive on a uh a course that is
that's one where you can go out.
It's not highly played, so I cango out late at night and play
three or four holes.
(21:15):
So I got home late from uh froma trip to Mexico.
So I got home late.
I had about an hour of light.
My wife was off doing something,and so I went out and and played
uh what I call fast and furiousgolf.
So I just played really fast andI just am out there by myself.
It's just a release for me,right?
So I'm out there coming up the18th hole.
(21:36):
I hit a great drive and I hit agreat second shot.
I was the bad news is nobody wasthere to see either why.
So I'm out there myself.
Yeah.
So so I'm coming up to the to,and it was a part five of the
18th at our little course up inKokomo, Green Acres.
And so I I I chipped on um fromthere, and actually the ball was
(21:57):
on the green.
So man, I'm laying three, andand there's a bunch of guys who
had a Wednesday night golfleague, and they're up on the
there's a uh a veranda there,they're all looking over, and
they're all cutting up andlaughing and loud, and I'm not
paying attention to them.
And so I get up there and and Iand I it was a long ways.
I mean, I was like 40 feet away.
So anyway, long story short, Ileft it within 10 feet, and then
(22:19):
I just sunk the putt.
And there's a big roar on thecrowd, you know, and the guys
and the guy said, Oh, John, youjust wanted some money.
So they're up there on theirbetting on whether I'm gonna
fleep pot or not.
So I said, as I drove by overthe guys, I said, Well, whoever
believed in me, thank you.
You know, for those of you thatdidn't, I'm I'm glad you didn't,
(22:41):
you lost your money.
So, but but anyway, uh the bookum was really born out of um, I
was meeting with some young menand I knew my own what I wish I
would have applied, and takingsome of the principles and
skills from golf and applyingthem to your to your
relationship with your wife.
(23:03):
And so at that point, I was uh,you know, in my probably late,
late 30s, early 40s, and onvacation, I just started writing
down and uh and you know, whatwould I what's a principle from
golf that applies in myrelationship with my wife?
So I just started making somenotes and actually Ben, I did
this for, I'm gonna guess, for10 years.
(23:24):
I mean, I just took thisdocument out, I did it once a
year.
I just would write some thingsand eventually it it turned
into, I think there's 10chapters, and and I just took
these principles to share withother young men to are saying,
you know, I love golf or I lovesport, but I need to take the
same skill set and that I thethings I love about golf and
(23:48):
transfer them in my relationwith my wife.
And so that's what I did, andthen I put it into a format and
and then I published it a numberof years ago, I think it was
2013, and then I had a buddy whodid it, got it out there on
Amazon for me and all this kindof thing.
So my goal was never to, youknow, I was not anticipating
being a best-selling author.
(24:09):
That was not my joy.
My my goal was just to writesome of those things down and to
share them.
And and those are the thingsthat I've tried to do.
And let me give you, I'll giveyou an example of one.
So um, you know, uh I think it'schapter five, it's called pin
placement.
And so I, you know, you thinkabout every day somebody goes
(24:31):
out at the beginning of themorning and they change the
pins.
Well, and and the whole point ofthe analogy is that the golf
course is the heart of yourwife, right?
And and it's and there's allkinds of challenges, but the the
pursuing uh being connected toyour wife is the course.
That's the course.
(24:52):
And so um I I talked about pinplacement, and then I said, you
know, nobody stands up there andgets frustrated with the
groundskeeper because they, youknow, they change the pin
placement, right?
You say, okay, they're trying tokeep the course a little
challenging, right?
So today it's you know in theback left, and tomorrow it's in
the front right.
And I said, nobody runs down,you don't complain about the
grainskeeper.
(25:13):
I mean, everybody once in awhile, you know, hear these PGA
guys say, Oh, the pinplacement's so horrible.
But but you don't live in astate of frustration with the
groundskeeper.
He's just out there keeping thechallenge up for you.
And I said, so it's true.
And sometimes you in in yourwife, a lot of times I says men,
we get frustrated.
Our wife changed, changed hermind, and you know, the whole
(25:34):
stereotypes of your spouse whois, you know, doing that.
I said, look, don't getfrustrated.
It's just your wife keeping thechallenge up, it's helping you
realize that hey, you've got tocontinue to keep studying her.
And how, and and ourresponsibility as men and to be
good husbands, you got to studyand chase your wife for a
(25:55):
lifetime.
And that's what till death toyou part means.
And and so I was just trying tohelp other men learn what I was
learning and and using golfbecause I love it and I enjoy
it, and uh so trying to makethose transitions.
That's how it began.
That's a great analogy.
SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
I love that.
Um, you mentioned somethingearlier about uh being
co-vocational, and you weretalking about your uh role as a
pastor um and being in you knowin business as well, but that
wasn't your full-time gig.
Um, it kind of seems that thatmay be applicable to your new
(26:36):
role and the SVP of EmmyMission, uh being co-vocational
there uh to some extent.
Can you explain for us what howthis came about, uh your role?
Um, because it's probably notnecessarily there's probably not
a job description out therenecessarily for SVP of Mission.
(26:58):
And so this is something that'sreally has fingerprints of Emmy
all over it.
So what about that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Well, I think um I think Larry Gray, uh who's been
our our CEO since 2010, so TomAnthony, the the uh second
owner, again, Dick's son, uhsaid affectionately says he he
said he fired himself and hiredLarry.
So he was the CEO from 2005 to2010.
He he he will tell you, and I'muh I wasn't a very good CEO, so
(27:30):
you know, although he was, youknow, humbly speaking, he was a
very capable guy.
But Larry Gray, who was hestarted at Emmy in 2001, became
um the CEO.
So it's it's since since 2010.
And I think Larry is a he's justa visionary kind of guy, and
he's he's a strategic guy, andour company's grown really uh
(27:51):
under his leadership in anexponential kind of way.
And uh the I think therelationship that Tom and Larry
had, uh I mean, Tom's heart isthis is the mission.
And and and Larry is the thatthat practical, okay.
Well, how are we gonna live thisout?
So our four values, honor God,serve people, really is is
(28:13):
really the love God, love peopleelement of what Jesus taught.
And deliver excellence, growprofitably is really, I think,
uh what probably you could saythe disciples lived out to help
cause the mission of the churchto expand, right?
You gotta do things right andwell, and you gotta be able to
(28:34):
duplicate it and profit over andover and over again.
I mean, money is simply thescorecard, in my opinion.
It's how we keep score.
Um, and and it represents theopportunity to do other really
cool things.
And and I say, so with thatmindset, Larry captured that and
and Larry has a combination ofboth.
(28:56):
And Larry um said to me, andJulie Cooley, who has been with
uh our team in in thecommunications area, said, John
and Julie, I want to pair upyour strengths, and and uh
Julie's gonna focus more on thetactical uh HR elements of
things and the approvement ofsome things that that um her
(29:18):
communication skill and her viewof hey, how we're gonna do this.
Uh so she stepped into that rulerole.
Um and then I and John, I wantyou to focus on our missional
elements.
So uh and and really that has todo with succession, leadership
development, um uh continuingthat that training and
(29:41):
development organization thateverything everybody has to do.
We got to continue to reign uhtrain leaders, and then I also
want you to say, how do we livethis mission throughout the
world?
So, because we have locationsnow in China, uh since 2012 in
the United Kingdom, uh we had aplant in Slovakia for a period
(30:01):
of time, and then we have aplant in Mexico as well as six
in the US.
So, with that balance, how doyou drive your mission through
the organization and keep itconsistent?
And so that's what my focus nowis.
It's really something I'vealways been doing for the last
11 years, except now he's justletting me focus on it and
(30:22):
liberating me to do that.
And then we also have afoundation.
So, like a lot of organizations,um, that family taught us that
we give.
So we give a percentage of ourprofits to a foundation.
Uh, that foundation is now runby uh 15 of our ME team members.
Um, I have the opportunity tonow be the executive director of
(30:45):
that foundation, and I simplyfacilitate those uh those monies
that are dispersed uh monthly.
We meet every week 50 weeks, uh,50 weeks a year.
We meet every Friday.
Our commitment is to that, andwe meet for uh for an hour and
we go over, you know, the stateof the business in terms of the
(31:06):
foundation, and then how we'regonna mobilize resources and get
them into the hands of peopleand organizations who are uh
fanning the flames of theChristian mission around the
world.
SPEAKER_02 (31:17):
Yeah, wow.
I so Emmy as a business hasalways been, you know, and this
is externally from myperspective, like a quiet
leader, and quiet in the senseof like you guys aren't chasing
publicity, or you're not you'renot, you know, you're you you
(31:41):
guys are just doing what youthink is right for your
business, but but you're leadingin the fact that it is known
that Emmy is a faith-friendlyplace, and all those things that
you said otherwise, um, andthere's really faith as the
knitting of how you guys runyour business and what your
(32:03):
desires are as a business.
Um, one that's been incredibleto watch, first and foremost.
Um, and that's been and thenthankfully I've had somewhat of
a an inner circle seat as we'vedone business together.
Um, but I just want to, youknow, formally say thank you for
what you guys have done as abusiness in that area.
(32:26):
And the the question element ofthat is um, you know, what what
challenges or how does that howdoes that work in a business
where, and maybe most of ourlisteners don't know, Emmy is
not a small-time business.
You just listed off a bunch ofdifferent countries that you
guys do business in with youknow over a thousand employees.
(32:49):
And I think a lot of business,businesses that have that
desire, um, and I know from ourperspective, we're much, much
smaller than you guys are.
And as we grow, you know,there's opportunity for for for
that to be difficult or for itto be watered down or whatever
that may be, um, or maybe justto lose focus about it and just
(33:10):
to be about business.
How have you guys maintainedfocus and and how do you guys do
that with so many employees?
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Uh great question, Ben.
And I thank you.
First off, let me say thanks foryou know the the the accolades
or whatever saying, hey, keepgoing.
And and certainly that's one ofthe things that we're excited
about to be a part of.
And we want to continue to saywhat can we do to encourage
others?
We don't have a formula, uh,we've got a story, and maybe
(33:41):
that story will inspire otherpeople.
And that's our goal as itrelates to the foundation that
uh the Anthony's laid, and thenum and then what we're trying to
lay and live out today.
Um, and yeah, and we areactually now we're 2,400
employees all over.
So it's crazy that uh that'sthat's the number.
(34:01):
When I first came, it was likeuh 1300 or so, and so we've
expanded uh by God's grace, andwe've ebbed and flowed, and
we've opened plants, we've hadto close plants, and and just
like all the nature of business,and those are hard things.
I mean, those are businessdecisions.
So I would uh that that say,hey, this is we've got to be
successful in these areas.
(34:23):
And how do you do that?
Because, you know, when we haduh we've had furloughs of
people, we've had to lay offpeople, we've had to release
people at different times in ourbusiness, and consequently, I
mean, then then here's the thebiggest challenge.
Anytime you put God in yourmission statement and and you're
(34:43):
you have to do and make a hardbusiness decision somehow, um,
then you become a target ofcriticism, additional criticism.
And hey, that's all part of it.
It's okay.
Um, but I think the genuineheart of it, the heart of what
we're trying to do is, you know,we genuinely care about people
(35:04):
and and how do we live that out?
And that's part of the practicalways of living it consistently
every day.
I mean, one of the things aboutwhat do we mean by honor God,
well, that's to to to have withintegrity, respect, compassion,
treating others with grace andhumility.
Well, integrity means that, andwe try to teach us this, and
(35:27):
that is integrity says, okay,this is the game I want to play.
The reality is all of us play agame that's not as good as the
one we say we play.
Right?
So anytime you have a valuestatement or a mission
statement, just like when I gotmarried, I couldn't live up to
the vows exactly every day.
(35:48):
You know, I is a company.
I there's a gap between what wesay and what we live.
Now, if you go to church, youknow, you go walk into church
life, they call you, well,you're a hypocrite.
I'm not going to church becauseof the hypocrites.
Well, okay, that's right.
There are a lot of hypocrites atchurch, right?
Because everybody talks abouther game than they play.
(36:08):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (36:09):
So Jesus is a pretty high bar that uh, you're not
gonna be perfect, right?
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
So the point is the same thing as an organization.
So you set a high bar, but we'renot gonna shoot 100%, right?
The best in the world don'tshoot 100%.
Nobody's always gonna be thepark offer.
Everybody, you know, you'regonna have those mistakes.
And so integrity is the wordactually comes with the word
integer, which means one, whichmeans the narrow the gap from
(36:39):
what we say to what we do.
And so in the manufacturingworld, we call that continuous
improvement.
Kaizan, that's continuousimprovement.
And and the theological word issanctification, how you grow and
change to get better.
Um, and so I think the biggestthing is to continue to convey,
to be honest about yourfailures, right?
(37:00):
And and keep in a humbleposition and then recognize that
we're trying to befaith-oriented.
But I often tell people in ourorientation classes when I get a
chance to talk, look, don't beweird about it.
I mean, sometimes you can be,you know, uh more spiritual than
Jesus, I think.
Okay, so that's that's whathappens with I think
(37:22):
religiousness in every context,right?
There's every religious systemthat you get too many people who
get aggressive on either end.
Um and we see that we, you know,we call it radical Christianity
or radical Islam or radicalwhatever.
And it's easy to get out to theedges of things instead of
(37:43):
saying, look, hey, just do thebasics and live it out and let
your life reflect what youbelieve.
And I think trying to get givepeople the freedom of that.
And if that's nothing or peoplearen't ready for that, that's
okay, right?
We don't we we make thingsavailable like and you talk
about how do we live it out?
(38:04):
Well, we make things availableat like Bible study, but we
don't make anybody come, wedon't take attendance, we don't
do that.
We make it available for people,we bring in speakers, we might
we provide a lunch for those youchoose to attend, but other
people can take the extra houror extra the extra time and go
go out to Wendy's or do whateverthey want to do, get together
(38:26):
with people that they want totalk to.
One of the things that we didwith the uh we call uh we we
send out a weekly what we calliCore, Emmy Core.
Uh uh the the Emmy Core of whowe are is a story of the Anthony
family.
So it's something from a bookthat Dick wrote uh when he was
80 years old.
And so we send it out every weekand we discuss it and say, okay,
(38:48):
what are the principles thatDick learned?
And it's a great resource.
It's like the the thinking ofthe business thinking of the
Anthony family.
So we do that.
Um, I'm doing this podcast, Istarted a podcast internally
that tells the stories of someof our members.
We call it on mission.
So, how what are they doing intheir own lives to live on
mission?
Much like you guys are trying todo here with me, giving me an
(39:11):
opportunity to share.
And I appreciate it.
So we're doing that internallyat this point.
It's not released to the public,it's just more of an internal
tool to encourage people to getto know one another.
Um, and then we talk about ourmission, vision, values at every
turn.
It's it begins in our interviewprocess, it's in our
(39:31):
orientation.
Uh, we talk about it, it's evensome in our discipline process
that look, I mean, this isn'tconsistent with what we are
trying to become.
And if you either change yourways or live in a in a direct
way, if it's not, if it's notdelivering excellence or growing
profitable, or it's not someelement of serving others, it's
not respectful to people.
Um, you know, good common senseHR stuff that says treat people
(39:56):
well, right?
Live the golden rule, and uh uhyet you won't have a problem.
So I think that's how we aretrying to live it out in
practical ways.
SPEAKER_00 (40:06):
John, for over 60 years, Emmy's been uh
manufacturing stuff, and uh it'smostly been in that safety
harness space.
And for the entire inception,while it may have been called
something different, you guyshave always been faith-friendly,
right?
Yes, that's correct, true to thecore.
Um when when your organization,you got 60 years of experience,
(40:29):
when your organization goes outand buys stuff, buys services,
buys material in yourmanufacturing process.
What what rubric, what filter,what grid do you run through as
it relates to thatfaith-friendly with your
internal team?
You mentioned, hey, you canbelieve something about God or
nothing about God and still workat Emmy.
(40:51):
Is there a similar path that youuse for vendors?
How do you guys think throughthat?
I'm very interested becauseyou've done it now for 60 years
and you've done it acrossmultiple generations.
So you I know you've you youhave some lessons learned
through that.
How do you approach that?
SPEAKER_01 (41:09):
Well, I think I think the thing to me is the
deliver excellence.
The door into that is theexcellence piece.
So you find partners who are whoare sick who are committed to
excellence in what they deliver.
And what we have found overtime, I think, is as you pursue
other organizations and partnerwith organizations who are
(41:31):
committed to excellence, atcore, ultimately you'll get down
to the elements of of principlesor truths that are universal,
regardless of whether youconnect them to Christian
thought or Buddhist thought orIslamic thought or whatever,
there's a lot of systems ofthought that are in the stream
(41:52):
of, okay, hey, that's excellent.
That's well, that's a that'sdone with with precision.
And so we let that drive, Ibelieve, and hey, who can
deliver the goods?
Who can who wants to partnerwith us to see our vision to
bring safety to people aroundthe world?
And so since we've been doingthat, everything from child
seats, now one of our biggestareas is in bus seat
(42:13):
manufacturing where we're tryingto convince the world to put
three-point harnesses on ourkids in school buses.
And we now partner with thethree major, four major
manufacturers to do so.
So Thomas Built bus, IC bus,Bluebird bus, and Collins bus.
All four have our seat systemson them now.
Wow.
(42:33):
And that has been a 25 plus yearjourney where we're trying to
say, look, hey, just put yourkid in a three-point harness.
Well, school districts as aMozart, still aren't doing it.
Only eight states require it.
But actually, Bluebird is one ofthose that's saying, hey, we're
getting serious, more seriousabout safety.
And so we're gonna make it partof just what we do.
(42:55):
So I think that's coming and itwill.
I mean, years, 10 years fromnow, I think you're gonna have
all kids in school bus seats,uh, and we're gonna have that
buckle on there, I hope, uh,because that's our goal.
Our goal is to be the theprimary provider of that in the
market.
And so that's a couple of areas.
Now we actually have uh, youknow, eight other major areas of
(43:16):
market.
So you think, Todd, of it, Imean, our safety systems are on
anything that's not in a car,not in an airplane, and not in
an amusement park.
So anything else that you canthink of, we have a buckle or a
strap that rich, you know, helpspeople stay safe.
And now we're steering wheelsand airbags and other things
that are are making adifference.
(43:37):
Uh, with with uh like Bluebird,Bluebirds are gonna have the
first bus driver uh airbag uhsystem in it.
And uh hard to believe that, butmost school buses don't have
airbag systems for the driver,so it's unconscionable.
We would think of it, and youknow, we don't get in a car that
doesn't have an airbag, but uhwe now will have that in terms
(43:59):
of uh we're working withBluebird to do that, and so
that's a really cool that's thekind of finding who wants to be
a part of that excellence, andthen when you commit yourself to
excellence, the principles toget there, right?
Um like integrity, like uh andand uh honesty and transparency
(44:22):
and uh intentionality andgrowing people and all of those
other things, you can't doexcellent work consistently
without committing to principlesthat are timeless.
SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
Wow.
You know, as I hear you talk,you keep talking safety, but I
hear a different word.
I hear that your product savespeople, but I also hear that
your culture has a realopportunity to save people.
SPEAKER_01 (44:49):
Yeah.
Well, uh actually, uh there'sone of our videos that we use of
a young uh of a I should say ayoung lady who worked for us,
but no, she's now worked for usfor 30 plus years, uh, Trina,
and she's been she talks about,you know, uh Emmy is really, and
she her phrase she uses, Emmyisn't exist just to save lives,
(45:09):
they exist to save souls.
And so she captured it.
And while we don't use that kindof as a tag, um, it is really
hard.
Uh Todd, I'm glad you capturedit because that's really the
heart of Emmy.
Um, those that uh want to gothat direction, uh we're gonna
cast the net and invite theminto that truth.
But uh those that don't, we'regonna love you and care about
(45:30):
you, and that's okay.
We're gonna treat you with greatwith care and respect.
And if that's not your thing,that's all right.
And that's one of the balancesthat we try to live with.
Um, how do you treat people withcare and respect who don't think
the way you think and believesomething different than you do?
And and trying to do that in ain a good way, um, still be
diverse organizations, stillhave people who think
(45:52):
differently, live differently,come at life differently.
Uh, that's tough.
It's tough to maintain.
Uh, and we get criticized fornot doing it well enough.
Uh, yeah.
I mean, that's part of living.
SPEAKER_02 (46:05):
It's part of living.
Um, but I will tell you thisagain, we've been had the joy
and pleasure of working with youguys for quite some time, and
you guys are the real deal.
So, regardless of you know,whatever criticism there is, or
that one time you guys didn'tmeet the mark, I know from what
I've seen that your guys'intentionality and your desire
(46:27):
to uh uphold your values andcare for your people just never
wavers.
That's that that really is yourdriving force.
So I've just really appreciateduh seeing that.
SPEAKER_01 (46:38):
Um John, the feelings mutual Ben, and I
appreciate uh Connor Insuranceof what you guys have done to
help us.
Uh yeah, uh Ben and I oftenlaugh about uh a season when I,
in a moment of weakness, leftBen in the advisory group for
three years.
Uh and and uh it was myultimately myself and my
decision, and and I regrettedit.
(47:00):
It's one of the decisions Iregret leaving Connor Insurance.
So uh you guys have been a greatpartner, and uh uh you've you've
never held it over my head, butI'll never forget it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
Yeah, you bring it up way more than you need to,
that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
That's good.
I appreciate all this.
SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
It makes for a good story at this point, John.
SPEAKER_01 (47:17):
So it does, it makes for a much better story.
SPEAKER_02 (47:21):
Well, um, we usually close our episode with two
questions for our guest.
Um, so I'll ask the first one.
Um, what is a what is I guess Ineed to uh what is a risk you
have taken that has changed yourlife?
SPEAKER_01 (47:39):
I'd say I mean I go back to the the the risk of
marriage.
I mean, marriage is a risk.
I mean, well over 50% still enda divorce.
Um it it's a life-changingexperience that for those who
believe it's theirs and notmarriage isn't for everybody.
There's a great blessing forthose who are single, and I
(47:59):
believe in that.
And uh I I have a friend who whois single, and I tell her, I
said, We need to get you at-shirt, says, I'm single.
If it's good enough for Jesus,it's good enough for me.
But uh, but anyway, the uh so Ithink to me that that's the
greatest, the greatest risk I'veever taken was to to um to risk
(48:25):
on another person and to make adeclaration that I knew I didn't
know I couldn't commitcompletely to, right?
But I mean you've tried to liveyour vows and be true and
faithful and all the things thatyou would expect, but uh in
every detail.
Boy, uh so I'm so thankful forfor that uh risk I took.
And uh I mean the rest of allthe others are calculated risks,
(48:49):
and so they're they pale incomparison.
unknown (48:52):
Yeah, scattered.
SPEAKER_00 (48:53):
John, you've had a winding road professionally and
personally as well.
Many different states, manyactually different types of
occupations have gotten you tothis place.
I pray you have a very longroad.
So the last question is what isleft yet unfinished that you
have the resolve to complete?
SPEAKER_01 (49:10):
Ah, well, that's that's a great question.
And I'm I'm at the pivotal pointof that.
I just turned 61.
Um, and uh when I was 27 yearsold, I wrote down the things
that I wanted to accomplish inmy life.
I was very detailed in terms ofthose things.
At the age of 53, I'daccomplished 73% of the things
on my list.
Um, and and this something thatI had updated over and over
(49:32):
again in years, and and uh someof them things, some of the
things shouldn't have been onthe list anyway.
So again, there's things at 27you think that's a dude, that's
a stupid idea.
SPEAKER_00 (49:44):
Are you giving right now the freedom to not do those
things?
SPEAKER_01 (49:46):
Yeah, I yeah, I'm I'm not I'm deleting those.
I'm not doing that.
Okay, but the other thing isTodd, to answer your question,
is um I I believe uh I'd like toshoot for one third left.
So if I'd like to live to be 90.
Uh, and if I could, what would Ido in the next 30 years?
So right now I'm in the processof reforming and taking, okay,
(50:07):
what do I want to see in thenext 30 years?
And and the biggest thing is Iwant to be faithful as a as a
man, I want to be faithful as ahusband, I want to be faithful
as a deliverer to the nextgeneration, those things that I
learned that were helpful, andto not become a distraction to
those who are coming behind.
And um, so that's my goal,right?
(50:27):
It's just to not become adistraction, to be, to be really
uh helpful to other people.
And uh so I'm looking forward toit.
I believe that many times thelast third of life uh is
actually the most productive forpeople.
If you do some studies inhistory and those kind of
things, many people accomplishedincredible things in the last
third of their life.
(50:48):
Um, I mean, think about thisJesus lived 90% of his life, 30
years before he did one publicthing.
And then actually three years offlurry.
Um, Moses lived two-thirds ofhis life.
He was 80 before he led thechildren of Israel out of uh
there.
Abraham was 102 of his175-year-old life.
(51:11):
So two-thirds of life was gone.
There's a lot of history andstories of that.
And so I just want to befaithful in the last uh third, I
hope, of my life.
And if it's all done tomorrow,it's okay.
I've I've uh by God's gracelived a very great life.
And I tell my kids all the time,if uh if if I'm gone someday,
don't feel don't feel sorry forme.
Yeah.
(51:31):
I mean, I hope you cry at leastfor 24 hours, but you know, you
know, I hope you're a littlesad, but but uh I've lived a
wonderful life and um and I'vebeen very thankful and had lots
of opportunities uh to live afulfilling experience.
And I hope that people get achance to chase those things and
and just live it.
(51:52):
Live with passion.
Whatever you do, chase it withall you got, and uh, and and
you'll look back and think, man,that's what I was supposed to
chase.
Awesome.
Thanks, John.
SPEAKER_02 (52:01):
Well, John, uh, thanks for joining us today.
Um, I've appreciated again theprofessional relationship, but
also building building afriendship over the last decade.
So uh thanks again for joiningus today on the Risk and Resolve
Pod.
And thanks to our listeners, andwe'll see you next time.
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