March 26, 2025 • 36 mins
Adam Weber shares his journey from pastor to entrepreneur to executive coach, demonstrating how personal insecurities and desire for meaningful work drove his transformation through multiple successful businesses.
• Building BlueRidge and Amplify through multiple pivots while growing to millions in recurring revenue
• Identifying the common growth barrier businesses hit at 35-50 employees when founder-centric culture breaks down
• Creating space for leaders to realize they have more choices than they think they do
• Understanding how board members and investors have less context than you as the business leader
• Recognizing that loneliness and decision paralysis are common challenges for executives
• Transitioning from a sales identity to finding authentic leadership style
• Helping leaders maintain high performance standards while remaining true to themselves
If you're interested in learning more about Adam's coaching practice or connecting with him, you can find him through his website or reach out directly through LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Risk and Resolve, and now for
your hosts, ben Conner and ToddHufford.
Welcome back to another episodeof Risk and Resolve with your
co-host, ben and Todd.
Today we have our special guest, Adam Weber, executive coach,
recently launched his business.
(00:23):
We're thrilled to have Adamhere, and Adam has quite the
journey that I'm excited toexplore, starting as a pastor,
co-founding Blue Bridge andsuccessfully pivoting to Amplify
, which I thought was incredible.
Wrote Lead Like a Human, a wellregarded leadership book, and
then was part of the acquisitionfrom Amplify to 15.5.
(00:48):
Adam, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Good to be here, ben.
Thanks for having me, todd,good to be here, and I guess the
listeners don't know that Benand I have actually known each
other for a long time, back when, that's, you just shared a long
career.
But that's just because I'm old, I think, and so I've just done
a lot of things, that I've hada lot of time See.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I was going to say you've accomplished a lot in a
short period of time oh, okay.
One of the positive spin.
Yeah, and I think that's true.
Well, tell us about you know,after the acquisition in 15-5,
now you've launched yourcoaching practice.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, that was in September, so it's pretty, you
know, pretty recently.
But in a lot of ways to me andbeing a coach is something I've
known, I've wanted to do for along time it's just work that
sometimes takes time to get to.
In the middle of my journey atAmplify was an employee
engagement measurement company,and so we measured cultures, and
then we coached executives onhow to build high performance
teams company, and so wemeasured cultures and then we
(01:45):
coached executives on how tobuild high performance teams.
We helped them figure out whatwas creating these blockers at
scale in their culture, and alot of times what we uncovered
was that it was the leaderthemselves or as someone on the
executive team, and the reasonwhy is, just like all of us,
when you're in a high stressenvironment where you're facing
something you've never faced,all of these childhood
insecurities come out, all theseunresolved parts of your own
personality come out, and youend up creating environment
where you're facing somethingyou've never faced.
All these childhoodinsecurities come out, all these
(02:05):
unresolved parts of your ownpersonality come out, and you
end up creating something thatyou never really wanted to
create, and so I've always, deepin my bones, wanted to be a
person that was like work for mewas like more in service for
others, and so, even having astartup, the whole time I was
like man.
I really hope I can get to aspot where I can coach and just
be in service to other people.
(02:27):
And so actually, once Amplifygot acquired, I started coaching
on the side for four years.
The whole time I was at 15.5, Ihad a little side coaching
practice two to three CEOs at atime and really, I think,
learned how to.
I mean, I'm still learning likewho I am as a coach and what
makes me unique.
I'm still learning like who Iam as a coach and what makes me
unique.
But one thing I feel like I'vebeen my whole life is just a
person that's good with otherhuman beings, good at listening,
(02:48):
good at hearing people'sstories and good at like maybe
giving them some level of likeconfidence that they could be,
like, that they can do the thingthat deep down they want.
And so, yeah, that's what I donow.
I just I sit with leaders andsit with them in their most
stress-filled, vulnerablemoments or when they've hit a
roadblock in their growth, andthey just they feel like they've
tried everything and nothing'sworking and kind of help them
(03:12):
think about what paths andoptions there really are and
give them the belief thatthere's more choice than they
realize.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
It's awesome Because that's interesting about a
leader of any business.
We all have limitations or ifblind spots or otherwise, so
working through those is prettyimportant.
Clearly, what have you learnedin, I guess I should say, since
September but this is more of afour-year overnight success,
right your coaching practice.
What has been some of thethings that have really stuck
(03:40):
out to you as you've launchedinto this journey?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's a good question.
What have I learned fromcoaching so far?
Like, is it six months in oflike full-time coaching?
I'll say one of the cool thingsthat I had I had three
different coaches during my,like you know, I did 12 years of
startups and had threedifferent coaches, and one of
the things I always loved aboutthem that I was always jealous
about was the situationalexperience.
(04:04):
Like you know, you are at onecompany and you're in that
company, right, and I work with14 clients, and so I get to see
patterns and trends and I hear astory and I'm like I just heard
this from a different personand you start to connect dots
that are different.
I always find it reallyfascinating when you're like
talking to someone inmanufacturing and then you're
talking with someone inventure-backed tech and you hear
(04:25):
the same thing and you start torealize, like how similar a lot
of like growth leadershipchallenges are.
So, yeah, like if I were to besuper specific with one of the
things I've noticed is like aninteresting thing I've observed
is how a lot of companies hit aroadblock in growth right around
35 to 50 employees.
Like that's an interestingthing, where the founders have
(04:48):
built this culture really aroundtheir personality and around
tribal knowledge, and this canalso happen around 15 employees.
It's not always, it's not likea defined set number, it's just
like early, all the employeeskind of know what to do because
they're in the orbit of theleaders, but then as the company
grows, you get less access tothe leaders and then that kind
(05:08):
of creates this chaotic, wildWest environment for the
employees, but for the leader itcreates this like.
This doesn't look like meanymore.
This doesn't match what I hadin my mind, and so helping them
then create that culture thatthey dreamed of, that they like
dreamed of, that they actuallywanted to be true, is one of the
things that I think kind ofstands out a little bit too.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, adam, I'm sure a lot of leaders and CEOs hear
about you through social mediaand probably a referral.
But when you first get thatcall, when you talk to them for
the first time, is theresomething a lot of them say,
that is, you're talking aboutthose consistencies across
different categories.
Is there something that they'reall saying in that first call?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
The actual like area that might bring them to me
might look different, but theone thing that's pretty true
with coaching in general is ifyou believe you can totally do
it on your own, then I'll neverhear from you, right, you don't
need a coach.
And so usually it's likethere's a moment, there's a
moment of awareness.
That happens whether it's likeyou exhibited a behavior you're
(06:13):
not proud of.
You're in a situation the mostcommon thing is you're in a
situation where, like if you'rein a high growth business or a
growing business, businessesgrow like this, but human beings
grow like that, and so you cankind of feel sometimes yourself
where you're like all right forthis thing to become the best
version that I know it's capableof.
I myself have to keep up withthe growth of the business, and
(06:37):
so that's a pretty common thingis like so how do I just have a
thought partner?
I mean, the other is just howlike lonely.
I had a CEO text me like an hourago about not even one of my
clients.
He's just like I'm sure you getthis all the time.
He's like this is such a lonelyjob.
I've got to like appease theboard.
I've got to appease theexecutive team, I've got to make
(06:57):
the employees happy, I'mworried about the customers and
it's like input, input andeverybody's like putting
pressure from all thesedirections.
I do think there's like aloneliness to it.
I also think sometimes, becauseof all those different, those
four directions board, exec,team, employees and customers
that at times it can kind ofmake your brain turn to mush,
like you almost get paralysis byanalysis, like, well, I need to
(07:20):
adjust for this person and thisperson.
And so I do think a lot ofpeople come with that.
And one of the great thingsabout coaching isn't that you
have the answers, it's that youcreate the container that
reverses that pressure.
Right, instead of creating thepressure, you release the
pressure by creating thatenvironment where they can
really explore.
Well, those are all greatinputs, right, but ultimately,
(07:43):
like you're the one who decides.
And so let's talk it out Like,how do you think about this?
What's a thing you know?
Let's play out the worst casescenario.
Let's play out the best casescenario.
And my favorite question rightnow is like if you had 10 times
the agency that you think youhave, what would you do?
And then it's just interestinghow they're just like oh, if I
(08:03):
could do anything, I'd do this.
And then it's like, well, canyou do anything?
Like what is holding you backfrom doing anything?
And like.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Those are some of the examples.
Are the venture capitalists whoare kind of early stage in a
lot of these companies and someof these CEOs careers?
Are they allocating dollarsearlier than normal to get
coaching to their leadership.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It kind of depends on the funds.
Some funds, I think, are reallylike coaching forward, you know
where they do and they'll evenhave like partnerships with
coaches.
That's what it was.
I'm like building this practicefor myself, like I'm hoping
there's a couple of funds thatI'm guessing.
The way it's going to happenfor me is like some of my
clients are in funds and thenthey tell the fund, versus me
(08:43):
going to the fund and trying toconvince them.
Like there's so many people thatsay they're coaches and what
I've always found is like evenselling coaching in general,
it's not a thing like what Ialways do.
I just, oh, I'm like, can wejust do a session?
Can you just sit it?
Can you sit in the containerthat I create for you and just
see if it lands for you?
And I'll see if it lands for me, like, and let's not, I'm not
gonna try to sit and tell, seeif it lands for you and I'll see
(09:03):
if it lands for me.
Like, let's not, I'm not gonnatry to sit and tell you what it
is, I'd rather you justexperience it and see if it
could create some change in yourlife.
To test drive, test drive yeah,we'll test a test run.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So I'm curious, now that you're in the coach seat
what would you have toldyourself of like 15 years ago,
when you were like beginningyour journey with Bluebridge and
Amplify?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh man, what a great question Like.
If I'm super honest with myselfabout the very beginning of my
journey, it really started forme out of a lot of personal
insecurity.
I would say like that I had twodeep insecurities.
One was financial insecurity islike probably why I became an
entrepreneur, and I was like Ihad this deep fear that I was
(09:50):
going to be like in poverty.
Even long after I needed tostill feel that I was just like,
well, if I don't succeed, we'regoing to lose our house, we're
going to you know, I would justlike kind of create these
narratives in my head.
We misquoted Well, this thing'sgoing to happen in this thing.
(10:12):
And so I think one is was thatwas like a deep insecurity.
And I think the other was likebefore I became an entrepreneur.
My first 10 years were like Ikind of bounced around for like
10 years of my career and kindof like entry level.
I mean it was eclectic, like Iwas a pastor and an academic
advisor and I got into entrylevel sales and so early on in
my leadership I had thisdesperation that I genuinely
felt like I had something biggerinside of me than had currently
(10:33):
been activated, and those twothings together at their lowest
moments, created a level ofselfish intensity that maybe
wasn't quite as like others,focused as like the best version
of myself and sometimes I thinkI maybe didn't make the very
best, like wisest decisionsbecause I had such a short term
(10:55):
survival perspective.
Those might be some of it.
You know, it's interestingbecause I'm also like pretty
charitable, like I think as anentrepreneur you're like
creating something out ofnothing and it does take a level
of intensity Like I don't wantto pretend like you can just
like lifestyle your way to likea venture-backed high growth
startup.
Like I was all in max effortevery single day.
(11:16):
I remember I used to say thisphrase.
It was like work harder thanyou think you can for longer
than you thought you could, andthat was like what it felt like
for 10 years, you know, and I'mproud of it, and I'm proud that
sometimes those insecuritiesactually but then they also got
to a spot where they weren'thelpful anymore either you know
where they started to kind oflike get in the way of my own
growth and my own limitations.
(11:37):
Ben, good question.
You're a new podcast host, comeon Like a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
you're in there, right?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's a real question right there.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah Well, I mean, you're coaching and you were an
entrepreneur, so I just kind ofthought, hammer met nail on that
one.
Tell us about that initiallaunch with Bluebridge, and
especially in light of what youjust shared of like bouncing
around for 10 years and as withSanti and what happened.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah.
So just a little bit of contextis that, yes, I had bounced
around for kind of 10 years butin the last year I started
selling websites for this likesmall business, and I like I was
like I'm going to figure thisout and I like crack the code on
sales and I like figured out, Iwas like finally doing well, I
guess this is the first goodyear like financially I'd ever
(12:28):
had.
And so I was finally in a spotwhere I was like, oh, I'm like I
got something going for me andso the reason I share it to risk
is like my boys were three andfour years old, I'd finally done
something to kind of get mywife's an architect and has done
really well and I'm reallyproud of her and she's like she
had really been you know, reallythree and four-year-old boys
(12:49):
that I met.
You know my business partnerwas a senior in college and I
wrote this blog about a $100,000website I closed.
When I first got to thiscompany, I closed a $3,000
(13:11):
website.
My websites were $3,000.
Closed a $100,000 website,write the first blog of my life.
And Santiago, my businesspartner at the time, read it in
college and sent me a cold DM onTwitter.
It was just like can I buy acup of coffee?
I want to learn sales from you.
So, yeah, biggest risk of mylife was 30 days later.
We're sitting back at thatStarbucks when I heard his idea
(13:33):
this is still early in theiPhone days and he's talking
about mobile apps instead ofwebsites and he said they're
going dude, you're going to beselling phone books if you don't
do it.
Like, websites are the phonebook of you know.
And I'm like and he already hadone customer too and I was like
I don't need much to work withyou.
Give me one customer, a coolidea, and also someone with a
(13:53):
ton of energy and enthusiasm forthe work.
And so, yeah, the moment that Ilike always remember is he like
pitched it to me and I was likeyou got to talk to my wife,
which is like I'm never inbusiness.
If I ever met somebody's spousesince then or before.
He's like at our house.
He's 21 years old, got a laptopup in our family room.
Our kids are just like goingcrazy because they're young and
(14:14):
loud and play with fire trucks.
He's like profusely swept whilehe's showing this financial
model.
That's like we're going to makethis work.
And then my wife is like, sodoes he?
Do you, will he have insurance?
And Santi just straight up lied, he just goes, yes, and then
he's like I got home and Googledhow to get insurance.
(14:36):
Interestingly enough, when hewalked out, my wife was like, if
you don't do this, you're goingto regret it for the rest of
your life.
And like it was, I feelactually a little choked up
because, like it genuinely didchange my whole life.
You know like and what thatunlocked for me and my family.
And then it wasn't just sayingyes, it was also all the hard
work that came in the nextdecade to earn that.
(14:56):
You know, like we worked reallyhard for what we created.
But that moment took a.
I took a leap.
You know, I took a pretty bigleap in that moment and that's
pretty cool how it turned out.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
What do you think your wife saw?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think he and I still I mean still to this day
we have a kindred and driveabout us that is hard to explain
, like as if we'd known eachother for a long time and kind
of like also like we'redefinitely going to make this
work, no matter what Like.
And I think I think she sawthat.
I think she probably also justsaw that like she like I think
(15:29):
she just genuinely like believedin me, that thing.
I think I told myself, or I waslike I know I could do
something.
I've got something inside of me, and I think she just like
believed that too.
And he was a great person toalso like invest in.
You know, in some ways it'slike put your poker chips on
this guy too.
Like he's it wasn't just me,it's like he's an impressive
person and I think that's reallyimportant that you partner with
someone else who's also reallytalented and you believe in and
(15:52):
can do stuff too.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, cause I just think about that dynamic.
I mean, he's in college, you'recrushing it, starting to close
some big deals and kids runaround the table, so there's a
lot of noise there.
That might've been like maybethis is too much of a risk at
this juncture in life.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
But it worked out.
It was a huge.
It was a big risk.
Funny enough is that my wifethen the next year started her
own business too.
Then, once we got in, we bothalso were kind of like I don't
know for people that work forother people.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I just kind of had that realization.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, I was going to say you two might be two really
good examples of that.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, we're quite unemployable.
Yeah, Exactly.
Might be two really goodexamples of that where it's
quite unemployable.
Yeah, exactly so Adam put thatmovie on.
You know two or three X speed.
That was day one.
Give us some highlights ofheadcount revenue.
The transition to you know kindof product and brand, because
you said it was a 12 year run.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, if you include all three stops, but they're all
kind of similar.
So yeah, Blue Bridge wasprobably four years.
We kind of built two businessesat the same time.
We sold to churches like amobile app that was like a way
to watch sermons and engage withthe calendar and send push
notifications.
We also sold to cities, so likeyou would go to Miami, Florida,
and when you got there youdownload the app of the city, or
(17:18):
Indianapolis had it, or youknow like, and it was like a
restaurant directory account orthat sort of thing.
Yeah, yeah, we thought it waslike the same product.
It's a really similar product,but it's a totally different
market.
So our price was different.
So we basically had to splitour team in two.
But that company grew prettyfast.
Our first goal, our goal ourfirst year, was to have 32
customers and by the end of thefirst year we had 105.
(17:39):
And so, I don't know, weprobably had 20, 30 employees
after 18 months and then by theend maybe we're up to about 50
employees.
And then when what basicallyhappened was we really wanted to
build a huge business, like weboth had this drive about us.
We were like we could reallybuild like the biggest, and we
just kind of picked two smallermarkets and our product just
(18:00):
wasn't quite a home run.
And so we got into thisemployee engagement space.
The fast forwarded version issome version of like our own
natural, like we're starting toI mean, he's an executive coach
today too we're starting torealize we didn't just start a
business to start a businessLike what's our work to do in
the world.
And so the first version ofAmplify was like we took that
same product and started sellingit to companies like birthday
(18:21):
announcements, and this isbefore Slack.
So at the time we thought itwas a pretty good idea, but
really we called it employeeengagement, but it wasn't
solving anything for people.
It was just sending outannouncements.
And so what?
We realized we're like, well,what if we really could solve
this for people?
And so we built thatmeasurement platform and started
coaching leaders.
(18:42):
And that really took off.
Like each time we kind ofstarted and stopped.
The first two we got to like amillion in recurring revenue on
each of those two products inprobably like two and a half
years.
App we got there in like 14months.
The fourth time we got there inlike nine months.
You know like we got.
(19:06):
We went zero to a million innine months and then hit like
double, double back to back.
We were on a really fast growthtrajectory with Amplify for
quite some time.
We got up to about 75 employees.
And then you know it's justinteresting like how you have
these tech companies.
You think it's, you know, keepgoing, but it's like pandemic
hits the market, totallyconsolidated on us all at the
same time.
At this point we've likechanged ideas four times.
We're both totally out of gastoo, which is a unique dynamic.
(19:30):
To like having a sustainablebusiness is like the founders
have to still have energy for it.
Yeah, and we just ran out ofenergy.
We just ran out, like we bothjust we were out.
We kind of lucked out.
One of our clients 15Fives hadloved our product and the year
before they called us and toldus they were going to build a
competitive product.
Which is like the classiest CEOever to me.
He's like we love your product,but this is what we're seeing
(19:54):
in the market.
We're going to have to competewith you.
He's like like, unless you wantto sell right now, and at that
time we're just like no, we'regonna be bigger than you.
And you know all this.
And we tried and they tried andthey tried to build our product
.
You know they realized how hardit was and so then we all kind
of came back in a more humbleplace and merged what was the
time frame between the, thefirst pounding your that's a
good question and then becausebefore the pandemic, so it's
(20:17):
probably like 18 months and wasthere a legal change of the
entity between blue bridge andamplify, or was it just the same
business with we basically soldthe technology.
On the same day, we sold thetourism technology to a tourism
software company and we sold thechurch technology to the church
software oh, so you had noproduct, you went, you went to
(20:37):
zero.
Yes, we started over, but wekept our employees, so we
basically had a brand newstartup with like 50 employees,
I mean, which was you know.
It's interesting.
The thing is we had our salesand marketing engine just like
humming at the time and we'relike I think we can get this
thing going pretty fast, but itwas.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It's certainly an interesting way to do it so what
percentage of the proceeds fromthose sales did you pour right
back into business?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
We put those right back in.
That was a yeah, it reinvestyeah.
So it was the same entity,though, basically.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
We just like yeah, Interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's a huge risk and I think Indianapolis is a
small market and so I justvividly remember hearing about
Bluebridge going to Amplify andexplaining like what you were
doing.
I was like that's a totallydifferent business.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.
Yeah, there's pros and cons too.
You know it's like if I coulddo it over again, I guess you
know I'd probably pick a goodidea from day one and or just
pick a fine idea and stick withit the whole time.
So, but like that wasn't ourjourney.
The reality when you're anentrepreneur is you only know
what you know in that moment.
(21:45):
Like I don't have that rightnow.
I have a lot more experiencethan I had then, and you know
the downside of that too is youhave to.
Just you're constantly startingover.
You never get the benefit ofsoftware as a service, like our
world was all recurring revenue,but it's like every time you
start over you got to start fromzero and you don't get that
compounding effect over time aswell.
(22:05):
So there's pros and cons.
I mean the end of the day.
The cool thing is it got usinto this like work that we both
really love and a product thatreally was like it wasn't a
perfect story.
We're like we're going tofigure out something that lands
for us and lands to the marketand we can kind of like really
give our all at it too yeah,heck of a journey, too, right,
yeah yes, oh, so fun.
It was fun, I do.
It's the most stressfulmemories at times, yeah, and the
(22:29):
most, like you know, they'rejust some aspects.
Some of the people, like myoriginal sales team I still have
a text thread with all of themthat we call it the boom threads
.
We always used to say boom whendeals are, and now, when life
events happen, or when some ofthem are still in sales to this
day, when they close big deals,they tax and it's just like you
know, you just build these bondsin that environment that just
lasts like such a long timethat's awesome.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Did you guys take private private equity or take
money in to grow?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
we did.
Yeah, yeah, quite a bit alongthe way too.
Yeah, and was that?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
I guess early stage, even through the transition into
Amplify.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yep At Bluebridge.
Kind of early on we had like alot of the exact target folks
were like early investors andBill Godfrey was just like an
incredible guy and like anamazing investor for us he's my
former boss.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Oh, are you serious?
Yeah, I was at a primo for ahot nine months.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
You need to get Bill Godfrey on this podcast.
You can use this clip right now.
He is an incredible guy andsuch a wealth of knowledge.
I mean it is nice to havepeople who've been there and
done that along the way too.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I'd say what lessons did you learn through that
working with private equity andinvestors, that now, as a coach
to CEOs who maybe have alreadytaken on money, or looking to, I
mean, you've got someexperience.
What are you coaching your?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
your.
I think one thing I didn't havecontext of at the time is that
investors and board members havea lot less context than you do,
like they don't sit, and I'vebeen on boards now since then
myself and it's very fun to goin and like technically say the
right, do Like they don't sit,and I've been on boards now
since then myself and it's veryfun to go in and like
technically say the right thing,like have you thought about
this, have you done this?
And then you leave and thenit's off your mind.
(24:07):
You know, all right, cool, nowyou guys go execute.
But it's really hard your firsttime to really understand how
much unique context you haveabout your unique situation.
Like, yes, there's things thatare timelessly true and yes,
there's wisdom and all that.
But end of the day, like whenyou get a chance to be in the
(24:27):
seat, take the seat, it's yourseat, it's not anybody else's.
And so I think one of thethings I think I tell people is
just like, take their input, butit is not a directive.
Like, at the end of the day,like you should, you should
stand up for what you know andwhat you believe and ultimately,
like you, could you see thisover and over with board members
(24:48):
and investors.
And you also see it with, like,when you hire somebody from a
big logo and you're like you'rethis entrepreneur, you have all
this like inferior, you don'tbelieve in yourself, you don't
believe in yourself.
And then you hire somebody fromSalesforce and they come over
and you're like, oh, they'regoing to solve all my problems.
They don't know anything.
They probably make big problems.
Yeah, it's not that they aren'ttalented, it's that you often
(25:10):
devalue your own knowledge andlike you know a lot more than
you think you do.
And so, like trust yourself,weigh out other opinions, but
ultimately like trust yourself.
I think is like one of thethings that I learned.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Back to like Bluebridge Amplify.
Who are some of your guys'coaches along that journey?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, well, my first coach was Brian Kavicki, who's a
sales coach.
That guy like changed my wholelife because he like gave me the
tool set of sales.
And he's much more than that.
You know, he really is a greatlike.
He's just a great person to bewith.
He's just really thoughtful andand helped me, um, just build
something that he gave me.
That I would say by the time Iwas done working with him, I was
confident I could do.
(25:48):
I could have any business like,cause I knew how to make money
and like generate revenue andthings like that.
So that's, that was my firstone.
Then a couple others along theway is Chip Knighty, kairos
Consult consulting.
They're an Indianapolis companytoo, and he was like a great.
He was a coach of Santi andeyes and his company was, and so
(26:08):
what's cool?
Now chip coach me for like twoor three years and a lot of what
I learned about coaching waslike through that relationship
and we're friends now.
You know, it's kind of it'sinteresting to kind of
transition from like we'regetting dinner, this I think
it's this weekend, this weekendor next week.
It's like, you know, we likehang out now as friends with our
, our wives and things like that.
And then there's a companycalled reboot.
It's like an organization, acoaching organization for
founders, and they were reallytransformative and my like.
The part I didn't share for mewas that, as amplify started to
(26:31):
grow and hit some scale, like Ialways thought I was, like I had
this story.
I told myself that I was like asales guy and the board and and
kind of the stage of growthwhere we're all kind of like,
hey, we, we think we shouldbring in a seasoned salesperson,
and then you start you knowyou're one of the founders of
this company Like what is theway you can most impact this
business?
Like and that was reallydisorienting for me because I
(26:55):
thought I was going to spend mywhole career leading sales.
But man, when I look back onlike the thing that probably
unlocked my work to do in mylife, it was actually and that
was actually a pretty painfulsituation at the time for me,
but it kind of unlocked my ownunderstanding of who I am.
When I released myself from howtightly I thought I was like a
salesperson and I started tothink about like well, what is
(27:17):
work I love?
Like what is work that I'muniquely qualified for and
uniquely gifted at and I startedto explore that and that is
ultimately what led me to Iturned into the chief people
officer at Amplify and then Istarted doing a lot of like
that's when I wrote the book,too, was during that time, and
that book really opened up a lotof doors as far as, like it
wasn't about sales, it was aboutthe unique way that I was
(27:38):
leading the team and then howthat's actually a really
scalable concept and my owngrowth journey.
And then how could I share thatand give that to other people
too, so they can lead in waysthat are more authentic to
themselves?
So often you have a bad managerand then they're really tough
on you in their car and then youbecome a manager and you start
(27:59):
acting that same way which ishow I was when I first became a
manager and like the spirit ofwhat I'm after is like what if,
in knowing yourself better, youactually then can lead others
better too.
You can show up as that calm,centered presence and you can
really like impact and influencepeople and like just creating a
different path for others thatshow gives them almost
permission.
Like hey, there's a differentpath for others that gives them
almost permission, like, hey,there's a different way to lead.
(28:21):
I still, I'm all aboutperformance, I'm all about
expectations and clarity andsetting a high bar, all those
things.
But you can do all that stuffand still be like a genuinely
good person, like authentic toyourself too.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
So how did you, being chief people officer, like
really HR related, coming from asales identity it's not even a
background.
You had a sales identity.
Talk about that transition andwhat were some like things that
you stepped in.
You're like, well, why do we dothings like that or this?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
is strange.
I was really lucky, like earlyon a couple of things, like one,
todd Richardson, who's the nowhe's the like COO of IU.
He was at Amplify with us tooand like when I made this
transition he was like don'tlearn traditional HR Like the
world doesn't need from you.
Traditional HR, hr needs you.
(29:15):
And there was this confidenceof someone who has so much
respect and pedigree in thatspace.
He like genuinely meant it whenhe said it, that he was like
lean into this thing and likefind your voice in this, because
I actually think your voice andthe way you're doing this is
something others need.
And so that was part of likeall right, I'm going to do that.
But I will say the way I used todescribe it is like I felt like
(29:37):
a kid in clown shoes for a lot.
For the first, like justfumbling around, trying to like
I'm trying things.
But I also was like I'm goingto try to be as innovative as
possible and share it publicly.
And I kind of that was like therhythm I got in, which was like
(29:58):
try to do things like there'sno rules, like you're going to
make the rules.
So like what's the coolestthing you ever wanted a culture
to be like Like what's thecoolest thing you ever wanted.
A culture to be like Likewhat's the thing you wanted?
Like one summer, I was like youknow, we're not working Fridays
in the summer, but what's socool about it is we like figured
out a way to drive performanceby aligning people's schedules
and like really getting peoplefocused, getting rid of wasted
meetings, driving up the pace ofthe company, but also doing
something pretty innovative too,and we leverage data to make
(30:19):
that decision.
So then, like I'll share, likeI'll share.
Well, how did I get that, youknow?
And so that's really what kindof started the snowball of the
new chapter, I guess, if youwill, I'm trying to imagine
being on your team at aperformance review with you as
my chief people officer.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
You're probably coming in with a 15 page slide
deck.
It's like a proposal.
You're working me through thesales process.
You know we're going to gethere.
Sign right here If we get thisdone by Friday and I'm like I
already work here.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Hold on.
Yeah, I will say one thing thatmade the transition like
interesting and is that I soldto HR people for years, you know
, and so and they all werepeople that were on the leading
edge.
We were signing early adopters.
We're like a new tech companywith an innovative idea, so it's
all the most innovative, likethe guy who bought 15.5, one of
those founders.
He was one of the mostprogressive HR leaders I've ever
met.
I became friends with himduring the sales process, you
know, and so when you're good atsales, you're learning and
(31:15):
you're asking questions, and soyou know, I felt like I knew
that industry like backwards andforwards, because I had had
thousands of conversations threea day, every single day for
four years with some of the bestprogressive HR leaders.
Like I'm not saying I know asmuch as them, but I know a lot
about this one topic that I'vebeen having three hours of
conversations a day about.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Wow.
So when you think about yourcoaching, what's the span of
control?
How many clients can you havebefore you're really not able to
give what you really need togive to each person?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think in some ways I'm stillfiguring that out.
Here's what I know is true islike well, actually been like
one of our shared friends.
So, josh Cooper, you know, josh, right, josh Cooper, my friend
Josh, is best man at my wedding.
He's a pastor today and he saidthis thing to me that really
like struck me as like what Itry to apply to coaching, and
(32:07):
he's like I want to make sure Ilive my life at a pace that
other people don't feel hurriedwhen they're with me, and so, as
a coach, I really feel thatlike the gift that I give to
these founders and and is thatlike yeah, I'm not in that same
race and so I really don't wantto get my schedule to a spot
where I am also just as busy asthey are and kind of in that
(32:29):
same race, because I want themto get to me and feel a sense of
rest.
So I don't know, I'm playingaround with that right now, 14
feels pretty close, like it'snot, you know, I mean I mean
every other week, so it's notlike overly intensive and but
also it's not, you know, I meet,I meet every other week, so
it's not like overly intensive,and but also it's like your mind
, like it's not just about thetime you're with them, it's that
you're thinking about them whenyou're not with them a little.
(32:49):
And so you, you know, there'skind of a line to how many
people you can think about andremember the characters and
things like that.
But somewhere in this like 14to 20 range is kind of like
probably about the max for me.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
So how far along are you on cloning yourself so you
can serve more people?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That is a great.
That's a great question.
There's one part of me that islike oh man, like building a
business.
You should build a business ofvalue, right, like, and how do
you build value?
It has to be about more thanyou.
That's like one version.
Where I am today, though, is isI'm like I actually am just
kind of like I kind of just wantto do this myself, like I just
(33:26):
am enjoying.
I enjoy actually coaching, andthere's a simplicity to like
just coaching myself, you knowand so, but I don't know that's.
We already just talked aboutall the changes in 14 years, so,
like I don't know what's gonnahappen, but that's I'm trying to
build something that's reallyscalable, or not scalable, but
is sustainable in my own life,and then what I really want to
(33:47):
hone in on is just like who am Ias a coach?
Who do I know I can reallycreate meaningful change and get
really confident in that, andthen figure out ways to have
more and more of that?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Well, I know we could probably go on for another hour
.
So fun.
Your story is fascinating and Iappreciate the enthusiasm and
courage that you have in yourdaily work, consistently over a
long period of time.
It's super encouraging.
But we talked about the twoquestions that we're going to
ask.
You alluded to one of them, soyou're going to have to choose
(34:22):
which risk.
You've taken a few, but what isthe risk that you have taken
that has really changed yourlife?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, I think that I'm going to use the answer, the
one the Blue Bridge, kind ofstarting Blue Bridge risk, I
think, was the big change thatreally set in motion the big
change in my life ocean, the bigchange in my life.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You know also I didn't mention this earlier, but
santi, his statement about webpages being the phone book, that
that's a cold-blooded salesright there.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, it is he, yeah it worked, especially because
there was a period where my dadsold phone books, so it really
that was it.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
that was certainly a sniper move, it was.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Second, and final question what?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
is yet unfinished, that you have the resolve to
complete.
What I'm resolved to is my owngrowth journey myself and like
being willing to face all thethings in my life that I need to
face to become the best versionof who I am, and my hope is
that in doing that, then it'slike in service to other people
too, right that I can thencreate the space for others.
And that is a hard task, likeit's hard.
(35:29):
It's hard to face yourself, youknow, and it's hard to be
willing to look at the aspectsof you that still need to grow.
But I do think that's one thinglike I am resolved to, and I'd
love to say it's a switch andyou just get like, but it's a
journey, but it's one that I'mpretty like, committed to, like
this deepening my ownself-awareness and then being
(35:51):
generous with how I give thataway.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I love that you're resolved to face hard things.
It's awesome.
Well, Adam, thanks for joiningus today and thanks to everyone
for listening.
Great to be with you all.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Thanks for tuning in to Risk and Resolve.
See you next time.
You're listening to Risk and Resolve, and now for
your hosts, ben Conner and ToddHufford.
Welcome back to another episodeof Risk and Resolve with your
co-host, ben and Todd.
Today we have our special guest, Adam Weber, executive coach,
recently launched his business.
(00:23):
We're thrilled to have Adamhere, and Adam has quite the
journey that I'm excited toexplore, starting as a pastor,
co-founding Blue Bridge andsuccessfully pivoting to Amplify
, which I thought was incredible.
Wrote Lead Like a Human, a wellregarded leadership book, and
then was part of the acquisitionfrom Amplify to 15.5.
(00:48):
Adam, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Good to be here, ben.
Thanks for having me, todd,good to be here, and I guess the
listeners don't know that Benand I have actually known each
other for a long time, back when, that's, you just shared a long
career.
But that's just because I'm old, I think, and so I've just done
a lot of things, that I've hada lot of time See.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I was going to say you've accomplished a lot in a
short period of time oh, okay.
One of the positive spin.
Yeah, and I think that's true.
Well, tell us about you know,after the acquisition in 15-5,
now you've launched yourcoaching practice.
Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, that was in September, so it's pretty, you
know, pretty recently.
But in a lot of ways to me andbeing a coach is something I've
known, I've wanted to do for along time it's just work that
sometimes takes time to get to.
In the middle of my journey atAmplify was an employee
engagement measurement company,and so we measured cultures, and
then we coached executives onhow to build high performance
teams company, and so wemeasured cultures and then we
(01:45):
coached executives on how tobuild high performance teams.
We helped them figure out whatwas creating these blockers at
scale in their culture, and alot of times what we uncovered
was that it was the leaderthemselves or as someone on the
executive team, and the reasonwhy is, just like all of us,
when you're in a high stressenvironment where you're facing
something you've never faced,all of these childhood
insecurities come out, all theseunresolved parts of your own
personality come out, and youend up creating environment
where you're facing somethingyou've never faced.
All these childhoodinsecurities come out, all these
(02:05):
unresolved parts of your ownpersonality come out, and you
end up creating something thatyou never really wanted to
create, and so I've always, deepin my bones, wanted to be a
person that was like work for mewas like more in service for
others, and so, even having astartup, the whole time I was
like man.
I really hope I can get to aspot where I can coach and just
be in service to other people.
(02:27):
And so actually, once Amplifygot acquired, I started coaching
on the side for four years.
The whole time I was at 15.5, Ihad a little side coaching
practice two to three CEOs at atime and really, I think,
learned how to.
I mean, I'm still learning likewho I am as a coach and what
makes me unique.
I'm still learning like who Iam as a coach and what makes me
unique.
But one thing I feel like I'vebeen my whole life is just a
person that's good with otherhuman beings, good at listening,
(02:48):
good at hearing people'sstories and good at like maybe
giving them some level of likeconfidence that they could be,
like, that they can do the thingthat deep down they want.
And so, yeah, that's what I donow.
I just I sit with leaders andsit with them in their most
stress-filled, vulnerablemoments or when they've hit a
roadblock in their growth, andthey just they feel like they've
tried everything and nothing'sworking and kind of help them
(03:12):
think about what paths andoptions there really are and
give them the belief thatthere's more choice than they
realize.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
It's awesome Because that's interesting about a
leader of any business.
We all have limitations or ifblind spots or otherwise, so
working through those is prettyimportant.
Clearly, what have you learnedin, I guess I should say, since
September but this is more of afour-year overnight success,
right your coaching practice.
What has been some of thethings that have really stuck
(03:40):
out to you as you've launchedinto this journey?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's a good question.
What have I learned fromcoaching so far?
Like, is it six months in oflike full-time coaching?
I'll say one of the cool thingsthat I had I had three
different coaches during my,like you know, I did 12 years of
startups and had threedifferent coaches, and one of
the things I always loved aboutthem that I was always jealous
about was the situationalexperience.
(04:04):
Like you know, you are at onecompany and you're in that
company, right, and I work with14 clients, and so I get to see
patterns and trends and I hear astory and I'm like I just heard
this from a different personand you start to connect dots
that are different.
I always find it reallyfascinating when you're like
talking to someone inmanufacturing and then you're
talking with someone inventure-backed tech and you hear
(04:25):
the same thing and you start torealize, like how similar a lot
of like growth leadershipchallenges are.
So, yeah, like if I were to besuper specific with one of the
things I've noticed is like aninteresting thing I've observed
is how a lot of companies hit aroadblock in growth right around
35 to 50 employees.
Like that's an interestingthing, where the founders have
(04:48):
built this culture really aroundtheir personality and around
tribal knowledge, and this canalso happen around 15 employees.
It's not always, it's not likea defined set number, it's just
like early, all the employeeskind of know what to do because
they're in the orbit of theleaders, but then as the company
grows, you get less access tothe leaders and then that kind
(05:08):
of creates this chaotic, wildWest environment for the
employees, but for the leader itcreates this like.
This doesn't look like meanymore.
This doesn't match what I hadin my mind, and so helping them
then create that culture thatthey dreamed of, that they like
dreamed of, that they actuallywanted to be true, is one of the
things that I think kind ofstands out a little bit too.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Yeah, adam, I'm sure a lot of leaders and CEOs hear
about you through social mediaand probably a referral.
But when you first get thatcall, when you talk to them for
the first time, is theresomething a lot of them say,
that is, you're talking aboutthose consistencies across
different categories.
Is there something that they'reall saying in that first call?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
The actual like area that might bring them to me
might look different, but theone thing that's pretty true
with coaching in general is ifyou believe you can totally do
it on your own, then I'll neverhear from you, right, you don't
need a coach.
And so usually it's likethere's a moment, there's a
moment of awareness.
That happens whether it's likeyou exhibited a behavior you're
(06:13):
not proud of.
You're in a situation the mostcommon thing is you're in a
situation where, like if you'rein a high growth business or a
growing business, businessesgrow like this, but human beings
grow like that, and so you cankind of feel sometimes yourself
where you're like all right forthis thing to become the best
version that I know it's capableof.
I myself have to keep up withthe growth of the business, and
(06:37):
so that's a pretty common thingis like so how do I just have a
thought partner?
I mean, the other is just howlike lonely.
I had a CEO text me like an hourago about not even one of my
clients.
He's just like I'm sure you getthis all the time.
He's like this is such a lonelyjob.
I've got to like appease theboard.
I've got to appease theexecutive team, I've got to make
(06:57):
the employees happy, I'mworried about the customers and
it's like input, input andeverybody's like putting
pressure from all thesedirections.
I do think there's like aloneliness to it.
I also think sometimes, becauseof all those different, those
four directions board, exec,team, employees and customers
that at times it can kind ofmake your brain turn to mush,
like you almost get paralysis byanalysis, like, well, I need to
(07:20):
adjust for this person and thisperson.
And so I do think a lot ofpeople come with that.
And one of the great thingsabout coaching isn't that you
have the answers, it's that youcreate the container that
reverses that pressure.
Right, instead of creating thepressure, you release the
pressure by creating thatenvironment where they can
really explore.
Well, those are all greatinputs, right, but ultimately,
(07:43):
like you're the one who decides.
And so let's talk it out Like,how do you think about this?
What's a thing you know?
Let's play out the worst casescenario.
Let's play out the best casescenario.
And my favorite question rightnow is like if you had 10 times
the agency that you think youhave, what would you do?
And then it's just interestinghow they're just like oh, if I
(08:03):
could do anything, I'd do this.
And then it's like, well, canyou do anything?
Like what is holding you backfrom doing anything?
And like.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Those are some of the examples.
Are the venture capitalists whoare kind of early stage in a
lot of these companies and someof these CEOs careers?
Are they allocating dollarsearlier than normal to get
coaching to their leadership.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It kind of depends on the funds.
Some funds, I think, are reallylike coaching forward, you know
where they do and they'll evenhave like partnerships with
coaches.
That's what it was.
I'm like building this practicefor myself, like I'm hoping
there's a couple of funds thatI'm guessing.
The way it's going to happenfor me is like some of my
clients are in funds and thenthey tell the fund, versus me
(08:43):
going to the fund and trying toconvince them.
Like there's so many people thatsay they're coaches and what
I've always found is like evenselling coaching in general,
it's not a thing like what Ialways do.
I just, oh, I'm like, can wejust do a session?
Can you just sit it?
Can you sit in the containerthat I create for you and just
see if it lands for you?
And I'll see if it lands for me, like, and let's not, I'm not
gonna try to sit and tell, seeif it lands for you and I'll see
(09:03):
if it lands for me.
Like, let's not, I'm not gonnatry to sit and tell you what it
is, I'd rather you justexperience it and see if it
could create some change in yourlife.
To test drive, test drive yeah,we'll test a test run.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
So I'm curious, now that you're in the coach seat
what would you have toldyourself of like 15 years ago,
when you were like beginningyour journey with Bluebridge and
Amplify?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Oh man, what a great question Like.
If I'm super honest with myselfabout the very beginning of my
journey, it really started forme out of a lot of personal
insecurity.
I would say like that I had twodeep insecurities.
One was financial insecurity islike probably why I became an
entrepreneur, and I was like Ihad this deep fear that I was
(09:50):
going to be like in poverty.
Even long after I needed tostill feel that I was just like,
well, if I don't succeed, we'regoing to lose our house, we're
going to you know, I would justlike kind of create these
narratives in my head.
We misquoted Well, this thing'sgoing to happen in this thing.
(10:12):
And so I think one is was thatwas like a deep insecurity.
And I think the other was likebefore I became an entrepreneur.
My first 10 years were like Ikind of bounced around for like
10 years of my career and kindof like entry level.
I mean it was eclectic, like Iwas a pastor and an academic
advisor and I got into entrylevel sales and so early on in
my leadership I had thisdesperation that I genuinely
felt like I had something biggerinside of me than had currently
(10:33):
been activated, and those twothings together at their lowest
moments, created a level ofselfish intensity that maybe
wasn't quite as like others,focused as like the best version
of myself and sometimes I thinkI maybe didn't make the very
best, like wisest decisionsbecause I had such a short term
(10:55):
survival perspective.
Those might be some of it.
You know, it's interestingbecause I'm also like pretty
charitable, like I think as anentrepreneur you're like
creating something out ofnothing and it does take a level
of intensity Like I don't wantto pretend like you can just
like lifestyle your way to likea venture-backed high growth
startup.
Like I was all in max effortevery single day.
(11:16):
I remember I used to say thisphrase.
It was like work harder thanyou think you can for longer
than you thought you could, andthat was like what it felt like
for 10 years, you know, and I'mproud of it, and I'm proud that
sometimes those insecuritiesactually but then they also got
to a spot where they weren'thelpful anymore either you know
where they started to kind oflike get in the way of my own
growth and my own limitations.
(11:37):
Ben, good question.
You're a new podcast host, comeon Like a couple of times.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
you're in there, right?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
That's a real question right there.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah Well, I mean, you're coaching and you were an
entrepreneur, so I just kind ofthought, hammer met nail on that
one.
Tell us about that initiallaunch with Bluebridge, and
especially in light of what youjust shared of like bouncing
around for 10 years and as withSanti and what happened.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah.
So just a little bit of contextis that, yes, I had bounced
around for kind of 10 years butin the last year I started
selling websites for this likesmall business, and I like I was
like I'm going to figure thisout and I like crack the code on
sales and I like figured out, Iwas like finally doing well, I
guess this is the first goodyear like financially I'd ever
(12:28):
had.
And so I was finally in a spotwhere I was like, oh, I'm like I
got something going for me andso the reason I share it to risk
is like my boys were three andfour years old, I'd finally done
something to kind of get mywife's an architect and has done
really well and I'm reallyproud of her and she's like she
had really been you know, reallythree and four-year-old boys
(12:49):
that I met.
You know my business partnerwas a senior in college and I
wrote this blog about a $100,000website I closed.
When I first got to thiscompany, I closed a $3,000
(13:11):
website.
My websites were $3,000.
Closed a $100,000 website,write the first blog of my life.
And Santiago, my businesspartner at the time, read it in
college and sent me a cold DM onTwitter.
It was just like can I buy acup of coffee?
I want to learn sales from you.
So, yeah, biggest risk of mylife was 30 days later.
We're sitting back at thatStarbucks when I heard his idea
(13:33):
this is still early in theiPhone days and he's talking
about mobile apps instead ofwebsites and he said they're
going dude, you're going to beselling phone books if you don't
do it.
Like, websites are the phonebook of you know.
And I'm like and he already hadone customer too and I was like
I don't need much to work withyou.
Give me one customer, a coolidea, and also someone with a
(13:53):
ton of energy and enthusiasm forthe work.
And so, yeah, the moment that Ilike always remember is he like
pitched it to me and I was likeyou got to talk to my wife,
which is like I'm never inbusiness.
If I ever met somebody's spousesince then or before.
He's like at our house.
He's 21 years old, got a laptopup in our family room.
Our kids are just like goingcrazy because they're young and
(14:14):
loud and play with fire trucks.
He's like profusely swept whilehe's showing this financial
model.
That's like we're going to makethis work.
And then my wife is like, sodoes he?
Do you, will he have insurance?
And Santi just straight up lied, he just goes, yes, and then
he's like I got home and Googledhow to get insurance.
(14:36):
Interestingly enough, when hewalked out, my wife was like, if
you don't do this, you're goingto regret it for the rest of
your life.
And like it was, I feelactually a little choked up
because, like it genuinely didchange my whole life.
You know like and what thatunlocked for me and my family.
And then it wasn't just sayingyes, it was also all the hard
work that came in the nextdecade to earn that.
(14:56):
You know, like we worked reallyhard for what we created.
But that moment took a.
I took a leap.
You know, I took a pretty bigleap in that moment and that's
pretty cool how it turned out.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
What do you think your wife saw?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think he and I still I mean still to this day
we have a kindred and driveabout us that is hard to explain
, like as if we'd known eachother for a long time and kind
of like also like we'redefinitely going to make this
work, no matter what Like.
And I think I think she sawthat.
I think she probably also justsaw that like she like I think
(15:29):
she just genuinely like believedin me, that thing.
I think I told myself, or I waslike I know I could do
something.
I've got something inside of me, and I think she just like
believed that too.
And he was a great person toalso like invest in.
You know, in some ways it'slike put your poker chips on
this guy too.
Like he's it wasn't just me,it's like he's an impressive
person and I think that's reallyimportant that you partner with
someone else who's also reallytalented and you believe in and
(15:52):
can do stuff too.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Yeah, cause I just think about that dynamic.
I mean, he's in college, you'recrushing it, starting to close
some big deals and kids runaround the table, so there's a
lot of noise there.
That might've been like maybethis is too much of a risk at
this juncture in life.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
But it worked out.
It was a huge.
It was a big risk.
Funny enough is that my wifethen the next year started her
own business too.
Then, once we got in, we bothalso were kind of like I don't
know for people that work forother people.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I just kind of had that realization.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, I was going to say you two might be two really
good examples of that.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, we're quite unemployable.
Yeah, Exactly.
Might be two really goodexamples of that where it's
quite unemployable.
Yeah, exactly so Adam put thatmovie on.
You know two or three X speed.
That was day one.
Give us some highlights ofheadcount revenue.
The transition to you know kindof product and brand, because
you said it was a 12 year run.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, if you include all three stops, but they're all
kind of similar.
So yeah, Blue Bridge wasprobably four years.
We kind of built two businessesat the same time.
We sold to churches like amobile app that was like a way
to watch sermons and engage withthe calendar and send push
notifications.
We also sold to cities, so likeyou would go to Miami, Florida,
and when you got there youdownload the app of the city, or
(17:18):
Indianapolis had it, or youknow like, and it was like a
restaurant directory account orthat sort of thing.
Yeah, yeah, we thought it waslike the same product.
It's a really similar product,but it's a totally different
market.
So our price was different.
So we basically had to splitour team in two.
But that company grew prettyfast.
Our first goal, our goal ourfirst year, was to have 32
customers and by the end of thefirst year we had 105.
(17:39):
And so, I don't know, weprobably had 20, 30 employees
after 18 months and then by theend maybe we're up to about 50
employees.
And then when what basicallyhappened was we really wanted to
build a huge business, like weboth had this drive about us.
We were like we could reallybuild like the biggest, and we
just kind of picked two smallermarkets and our product just
(18:00):
wasn't quite a home run.
And so we got into thisemployee engagement space.
The fast forwarded version issome version of like our own
natural, like we're starting toI mean, he's an executive coach
today too we're starting torealize we didn't just start a
business to start a businessLike what's our work to do in
the world.
And so the first version ofAmplify was like we took that
same product and started sellingit to companies like birthday
(18:21):
announcements, and this isbefore Slack.
So at the time we thought itwas a pretty good idea, but
really we called it employeeengagement, but it wasn't
solving anything for people.
It was just sending outannouncements.
And so what?
We realized we're like, well,what if we really could solve
this for people?
And so we built thatmeasurement platform and started
coaching leaders.
(18:42):
And that really took off.
Like each time we kind ofstarted and stopped.
The first two we got to like amillion in recurring revenue on
each of those two products inprobably like two and a half
years.
App we got there in like 14months.
The fourth time we got there inlike nine months.
You know like we got.
(19:06):
We went zero to a million innine months and then hit like
double, double back to back.
We were on a really fast growthtrajectory with Amplify for
quite some time.
We got up to about 75 employees.
And then you know it's justinteresting like how you have
these tech companies.
You think it's, you know, keepgoing, but it's like pandemic
hits the market, totallyconsolidated on us all at the
same time.
At this point we've likechanged ideas four times.
We're both totally out of gastoo, which is a unique dynamic.
(19:30):
To like having a sustainablebusiness is like the founders
have to still have energy for it.
Yeah, and we just ran out ofenergy.
We just ran out, like we bothjust we were out.
We kind of lucked out.
One of our clients 15Fives hadloved our product and the year
before they called us and toldus they were going to build a
competitive product.
Which is like the classiest CEOever to me.
He's like we love your product,but this is what we're seeing
(19:54):
in the market.
We're going to have to competewith you.
He's like like, unless you wantto sell right now, and at that
time we're just like no, we'regonna be bigger than you.
And you know all this.
And we tried and they tried andthey tried to build our product
.
You know they realized how hardit was and so then we all kind
of came back in a more humbleplace and merged what was the
time frame between the, thefirst pounding your that's a
good question and then becausebefore the pandemic, so it's
(20:17):
probably like 18 months and wasthere a legal change of the
entity between blue bridge andamplify, or was it just the same
business with we basically soldthe technology.
On the same day, we sold thetourism technology to a tourism
software company and we sold thechurch technology to the church
software oh, so you had noproduct, you went, you went to
(20:37):
zero.
Yes, we started over, but wekept our employees, so we
basically had a brand newstartup with like 50 employees,
I mean, which was you know.
It's interesting.
The thing is we had our salesand marketing engine just like
humming at the time and we'relike I think we can get this
thing going pretty fast, but itwas.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
It's certainly an interesting way to do it so what
percentage of the proceeds fromthose sales did you pour right
back into business?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
We put those right back in.
That was a yeah, it reinvestyeah.
So it was the same entity,though, basically.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
We just like yeah, Interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
That's a huge risk and I think Indianapolis is a
small market and so I justvividly remember hearing about
Bluebridge going to Amplify andexplaining like what you were
doing.
I was like that's a totallydifferent business.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Right.
Yeah, there's pros and cons too.
You know it's like if I coulddo it over again, I guess you
know I'd probably pick a goodidea from day one and or just
pick a fine idea and stick withit the whole time.
So, but like that wasn't ourjourney.
The reality when you're anentrepreneur is you only know
what you know in that moment.
(21:45):
Like I don't have that rightnow.
I have a lot more experiencethan I had then, and you know
the downside of that too is youhave to.
Just you're constantly startingover.
You never get the benefit ofsoftware as a service, like our
world was all recurring revenue,but it's like every time you
start over you got to start fromzero and you don't get that
compounding effect over time aswell.
(22:05):
So there's pros and cons.
I mean the end of the day.
The cool thing is it got usinto this like work that we both
really love and a product thatreally was like it wasn't a
perfect story.
We're like we're going tofigure out something that lands
for us and lands to the marketand we can kind of like really
give our all at it too yeah,heck of a journey, too, right,
yeah yes, oh, so fun.
It was fun, I do.
It's the most stressfulmemories at times, yeah, and the
(22:29):
most, like you know, they'rejust some aspects.
Some of the people, like myoriginal sales team I still have
a text thread with all of themthat we call it the boom threads
.
We always used to say boom whendeals are, and now, when life
events happen, or when some ofthem are still in sales to this
day, when they close big deals,they tax and it's just like you
know, you just build these bondsin that environment that just
lasts like such a long timethat's awesome.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Did you guys take private private equity or take
money in to grow?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
we did.
Yeah, yeah, quite a bit alongthe way too.
Yeah, and was that?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
I guess early stage, even through the transition into
Amplify.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Yep At Bluebridge.
Kind of early on we had like alot of the exact target folks
were like early investors andBill Godfrey was just like an
incredible guy and like anamazing investor for us he's my
former boss.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Oh, are you serious?
Yeah, I was at a primo for ahot nine months.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
You need to get Bill Godfrey on this podcast.
You can use this clip right now.
He is an incredible guy andsuch a wealth of knowledge.
I mean it is nice to havepeople who've been there and
done that along the way too.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I'd say what lessons did you learn through that
working with private equity andinvestors, that now, as a coach
to CEOs who maybe have alreadytaken on money, or looking to, I
mean, you've got someexperience.
What are you coaching your?
Speaker 2 (23:46):
your.
I think one thing I didn't havecontext of at the time is that
investors and board members havea lot less context than you do,
like they don't sit, and I'vebeen on boards now since then
myself and it's very fun to goin and like technically say the
right, do Like they don't sit,and I've been on boards now
since then myself and it's veryfun to go in and like
technically say the right thing,like have you thought about
this, have you done this?
And then you leave and thenit's off your mind.
(24:07):
You know, all right, cool, nowyou guys go execute.
But it's really hard your firsttime to really understand how
much unique context you haveabout your unique situation.
Like, yes, there's things thatare timelessly true and yes,
there's wisdom and all that.
But end of the day, like whenyou get a chance to be in the
(24:27):
seat, take the seat, it's yourseat, it's not anybody else's.
And so I think one of thethings I think I tell people is
just like, take their input, butit is not a directive.
Like, at the end of the day,like you should, you should
stand up for what you know andwhat you believe and ultimately,
like you, could you see thisover and over with board members
(24:48):
and investors.
And you also see it with, like,when you hire somebody from a
big logo and you're like you'rethis entrepreneur, you have all
this like inferior, you don'tbelieve in yourself, you don't
believe in yourself.
And then you hire somebody fromSalesforce and they come over
and you're like, oh, they'regoing to solve all my problems.
They don't know anything.
They probably make big problems.
Yeah, it's not that they aren'ttalented, it's that you often
(25:10):
devalue your own knowledge andlike you know a lot more than
you think you do.
And so, like trust yourself,weigh out other opinions, but
ultimately like trust yourself.
I think is like one of thethings that I learned.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Back to like Bluebridge Amplify.
Who are some of your guys'coaches along that journey?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah, well, my first coach was Brian Kavicki, who's a
sales coach.
That guy like changed my wholelife because he like gave me the
tool set of sales.
And he's much more than that.
You know, he really is a greatlike.
He's just a great person to bewith.
He's just really thoughtful andand helped me, um, just build
something that he gave me.
That I would say by the time Iwas done working with him, I was
confident I could do.
(25:48):
I could have any business like,cause I knew how to make money
and like generate revenue andthings like that.
So that's, that was my firstone.
Then a couple others along theway is Chip Knighty, kairos
Consult consulting.
They're an Indianapolis companytoo, and he was like a great.
He was a coach of Santi andeyes and his company was, and so
(26:08):
what's cool?
Now chip coach me for like twoor three years and a lot of what
I learned about coaching waslike through that relationship
and we're friends now.
You know, it's kind of it'sinteresting to kind of
transition from like we'regetting dinner, this I think
it's this weekend, this weekendor next week.
It's like, you know, we likehang out now as friends with our
, our wives and things like that.
And then there's a companycalled reboot.
It's like an organization, acoaching organization for
founders, and they were reallytransformative and my like.
The part I didn't share for mewas that, as amplify started to
(26:31):
grow and hit some scale, like Ialways thought I was, like I had
this story.
I told myself that I was like asales guy and the board and and
kind of the stage of growthwhere we're all kind of like,
hey, we, we think we shouldbring in a seasoned salesperson,
and then you start you knowyou're one of the founders of
this company Like what is theway you can most impact this
business?
Like and that was reallydisorienting for me because I
(26:55):
thought I was going to spend mywhole career leading sales.
But man, when I look back onlike the thing that probably
unlocked my work to do in mylife, it was actually and that
was actually a pretty painfulsituation at the time for me,
but it kind of unlocked my ownunderstanding of who I am.
When I released myself from howtightly I thought I was like a
salesperson and I started tothink about like well, what is
(27:17):
work I love?
Like what is work that I'muniquely qualified for and
uniquely gifted at and I startedto explore that and that is
ultimately what led me to Iturned into the chief people
officer at Amplify and then Istarted doing a lot of like
that's when I wrote the book,too, was during that time, and
that book really opened up a lotof doors as far as, like it
wasn't about sales, it was aboutthe unique way that I was
(27:38):
leading the team and then howthat's actually a really
scalable concept and my owngrowth journey.
And then how could I share thatand give that to other people
too, so they can lead in waysthat are more authentic to
themselves?
So often you have a bad managerand then they're really tough
on you in their car and then youbecome a manager and you start
(27:59):
acting that same way which ishow I was when I first became a
manager and like the spirit ofwhat I'm after is like what if,
in knowing yourself better, youactually then can lead others
better too.
You can show up as that calm,centered presence and you can
really like impact and influencepeople and like just creating a
different path for others thatshow gives them almost
permission.
Like hey, there's a differentpath for others that gives them
almost permission, like, hey,there's a different way to lead.
(28:21):
I still, I'm all aboutperformance, I'm all about
expectations and clarity andsetting a high bar, all those
things.
But you can do all that stuffand still be like a genuinely
good person, like authentic toyourself too.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
So how did you, being chief people officer, like
really HR related, coming from asales identity it's not even a
background.
You had a sales identity.
Talk about that transition andwhat were some like things that
you stepped in.
You're like, well, why do we dothings like that or this?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
is strange.
I was really lucky, like earlyon a couple of things, like one,
todd Richardson, who's the nowhe's the like COO of IU.
He was at Amplify with us tooand like when I made this
transition he was like don'tlearn traditional HR Like the
world doesn't need from you.
Traditional HR, hr needs you.
(29:15):
And there was this confidenceof someone who has so much
respect and pedigree in thatspace.
He like genuinely meant it whenhe said it, that he was like
lean into this thing and likefind your voice in this, because
I actually think your voice andthe way you're doing this is
something others need.
And so that was part of likeall right, I'm going to do that.
But I will say the way I used todescribe it is like I felt like
(29:37):
a kid in clown shoes for a lot.
For the first, like justfumbling around, trying to like
I'm trying things.
But I also was like I'm goingto try to be as innovative as
possible and share it publicly.
And I kind of that was like therhythm I got in, which was like
(29:58):
try to do things like there'sno rules, like you're going to
make the rules.
So like what's the coolestthing you ever wanted a culture
to be like Like what's thecoolest thing you ever wanted.
A culture to be like Likewhat's the thing you wanted?
Like one summer, I was like youknow, we're not working Fridays
in the summer, but what's socool about it is we like figured
out a way to drive performanceby aligning people's schedules
and like really getting peoplefocused, getting rid of wasted
meetings, driving up the pace ofthe company, but also doing
something pretty innovative too,and we leverage data to make
(30:19):
that decision.
So then, like I'll share, likeI'll share.
Well, how did I get that, youknow?
And so that's really what kindof started the snowball of the
new chapter, I guess, if youwill, I'm trying to imagine
being on your team at aperformance review with you as
my chief people officer.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
You're probably coming in with a 15 page slide
deck.
It's like a proposal.
You're working me through thesales process.
You know we're going to gethere.
Sign right here If we get thisdone by Friday and I'm like I
already work here.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Hold on.
Yeah, I will say one thing thatmade the transition like
interesting and is that I soldto HR people for years, you know
, and so and they all werepeople that were on the leading
edge.
We were signing early adopters.
We're like a new tech companywith an innovative idea, so it's
all the most innovative, likethe guy who bought 15.5, one of
those founders.
He was one of the mostprogressive HR leaders I've ever
met.
I became friends with himduring the sales process, you
know, and so when you're good atsales, you're learning and
(31:15):
you're asking questions, and soyou know, I felt like I knew
that industry like backwards andforwards, because I had had
thousands of conversations threea day, every single day for
four years with some of the bestprogressive HR leaders.
Like I'm not saying I know asmuch as them, but I know a lot
about this one topic that I'vebeen having three hours of
conversations a day about.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Wow.
So when you think about yourcoaching, what's the span of
control?
How many clients can you havebefore you're really not able to
give what you really need togive to each person?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think in some ways I'm stillfiguring that out.
Here's what I know is true islike well, actually been like
one of our shared friends.
So, josh Cooper, you know, josh, right, josh Cooper, my friend
Josh, is best man at my wedding.
He's a pastor today and he saidthis thing to me that really
like struck me as like what Itry to apply to coaching, and
(32:07):
he's like I want to make sure Ilive my life at a pace that
other people don't feel hurriedwhen they're with me, and so, as
a coach, I really feel thatlike the gift that I give to
these founders and and is thatlike yeah, I'm not in that same
race and so I really don't wantto get my schedule to a spot
where I am also just as busy asthey are and kind of in that
(32:29):
same race, because I want themto get to me and feel a sense of
rest.
So I don't know, I'm playingaround with that right now, 14
feels pretty close, like it'snot, you know, I mean I mean
every other week, so it's notlike overly intensive and but
also it's not, you know, I meet,I meet every other week, so
it's not like overly intensive,and but also it's like your mind
, like it's not just about thetime you're with them, it's that
you're thinking about them whenyou're not with them a little.
(32:49):
And so you, you know, there'skind of a line to how many
people you can think about andremember the characters and
things like that.
But somewhere in this like 14to 20 range is kind of like
probably about the max for me.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
So how far along are you on cloning yourself so you
can serve more people?
Speaker 2 (33:05):
That is a great.
That's a great question.
There's one part of me that islike oh man, like building a
business.
You should build a business ofvalue, right, like, and how do
you build value?
It has to be about more thanyou.
That's like one version.
Where I am today, though, is isI'm like I actually am just
kind of like I kind of just wantto do this myself, like I just
(33:26):
am enjoying.
I enjoy actually coaching, andthere's a simplicity to like
just coaching myself, you knowand so, but I don't know that's.
We already just talked aboutall the changes in 14 years, so,
like I don't know what's gonnahappen, but that's I'm trying to
build something that's reallyscalable, or not scalable, but
is sustainable in my own life,and then what I really want to
(33:47):
hone in on is just like who am Ias a coach?
Who do I know I can reallycreate meaningful change and get
really confident in that, andthen figure out ways to have
more and more of that?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Well, I know we could probably go on for another hour
.
So fun.
Your story is fascinating and Iappreciate the enthusiasm and
courage that you have in yourdaily work, consistently over a
long period of time.
It's super encouraging.
But we talked about the twoquestions that we're going to
ask.
You alluded to one of them, soyou're going to have to choose
(34:22):
which risk.
You've taken a few, but what isthe risk that you have taken
that has really changed yourlife?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, I think that I'm going to use the answer, the
one the Blue Bridge, kind ofstarting Blue Bridge risk, I
think, was the big change thatreally set in motion the big
change in my life ocean, the bigchange in my life.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You know also I didn't mention this earlier, but
santi, his statement about webpages being the phone book, that
that's a cold-blooded salesright there.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, it is he, yeah it worked, especially because
there was a period where my dadsold phone books, so it really
that was it.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
that was certainly a sniper move, it was.
I like that.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
Second, and final question what?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
is yet unfinished, that you have the resolve to
complete.
What I'm resolved to is my owngrowth journey myself and like
being willing to face all thethings in my life that I need to
face to become the best versionof who I am, and my hope is
that in doing that, then it'slike in service to other people
too, right that I can thencreate the space for others.
And that is a hard task, likeit's hard.
(35:29):
It's hard to face yourself, youknow, and it's hard to be
willing to look at the aspectsof you that still need to grow.
But I do think that's one thinglike I am resolved to, and I'd
love to say it's a switch andyou just get like, but it's a
journey, but it's one that I'mpretty like, committed to, like
this deepening my ownself-awareness and then being
(35:51):
generous with how I give thataway.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I love that you're resolved to face hard things.
It's awesome.
Well, Adam, thanks for joiningus today and thanks to everyone
for listening.
Great to be with you all.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Thanks for tuning in to Risk and Resolve.
See you next time.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.