April 2, 2025 • 45 mins
Dave Neff, CEO of the Boilermaker Alliance, takes us through his career journey from sports administration to navigating the evolving NIL landscape at Purdue University. His experiences showcase how relationship-building became the foundation for career success while providing unique insights into how NIL is reshaping collegiate athletics.
• Early career in Pacers ticket sales building a professional network and work ethic
• Transition from sports to tech at ExactTarget/Salesforce through leveraging relationships
• Taking career risk to lead Edge Mentoring, teaching valuable leadership lessons
• Current role managing Purdue's NIL collective while balancing legal requirements
• Boilermaker Alliance requires athletes to serve nonprofits and promote charitable causes
• Challenges of adapting to rapidly changing regulations and court decisions in NIL
• Personal commitment to maintaining balance as a leader, husband and father of four
• Purdue's development-focused approach compared to transaction-heavy programs
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to Risk and Resolve, and now for
your hosts, Ben Conner and ToddHufford.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Risk and Resolve pod with
our special guest today, DaveNeff, CEO of the Boilermaker
Alliance.
Dave, glad to have you today.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey, excited to be on , Excited for your guys' new
endeavor here.
Risk and Resolve.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, so obviously a lot of our listeners will
probably be excited.
You know the old boiler up deal, especially, todd, as a Purdue
alum, so they'll get to hear alittle bit about your endeavors
with Purdue and NIL here later.
But I'm personally pumped tohave you on, dave, just because
(00:48):
of our history and knowing eachother for so long.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, by close to 30 years.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
That's crazy and kind of the thing of like you can't
make old friends, you know.
But I remember vividly earlymorning hoops driving across the
street to pick you up get abasketball practice.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And your blue Mustang with your Dave Matthews band
bumper sticker.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That's right.
That's right Making sure thateveryone knew what my music
affinity was for.
But no, just really excited totalk about also your
professional journey and how youknow kind of weaving that
together and I've had a fun seatto kind of watch that along the
way.
But let's rewind the clockbefore we get into the
Boilermaker Alliance stuff.
Obviously we went to schooltogether at a private Christian
(01:36):
school here in Indianapolis andthen you chose to go to Ball
State.
Kind of share with me like whatwas your journey like and why
did you select Ball State?
You chose a major of sportsadministration, so tell me a
little bit about your journey ofchoosing Ball State and going
through the program there.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, I wish I could give you some elaborate sort of
plan here, but I think it.
You know, at least for me at 17, 18 years old, thinking about a
college, you know I was a goodstudent, worked hard, got good
grades, but didn't necessarilycast a super broad net at that
time in my life.
I'm going to go visit all thesecolleges and so, given where we
(02:15):
went to high school here inIndy private Christian school I
kind of thought I could go thatroute in college or try to
broaden my horizons, maybe go toa public state school, that
sort of thing.
And so, as I was just taking alook around growing up, my
father was a family practicephysician and I didn't
necessarily have a strong pullto go into medicine like he did.
(02:37):
I mean it was great for him andour family and so being active
in sports and not beingnecessarily that great of an
athlete but enjoying it andworking hard.
You know I thought a lot aboutsports broadcasting and you may
recall, ben, I think I was oursenior year, my senior year of
high school, as you're younger,but I was the PA announcer at
our high school basketball game.
(02:57):
So kind of dip my toe in thereand you know, ball State's known
for their telecommunicationsprogram, given David Letterman
being an alum, and so that wasreally it.
It Ball State's known for theirtelecommunications program,
given David Letterman being analum, so that was really it.
It wasn't anything crazy.
Went there as a TECOM majoractually first my freshman year
before transitioning into sportsadministration, and once I made
that pivot I really neverlooked back.
I didn't even know that was amajor back in 2003,.
(03:19):
Going to college, learned aboutit my freshman year kind of the
blending of business and sportsand different pathways from pro
sports to college to running aYMCA lots of different pathways,
should you choose to go intothat.
And so played club soccer.
Ended up working in theathletic department a couple of
years at Ball State, got somegreat experience, was president
(03:42):
of our sports administrationclub and just did a lot as an
undergrad to try to build myexperience and start to build my
network.
Because that was the thing theyalways told us was that it's
very competitive to break intosports and you're going to work
long hours and not make verymuch money.
So I was determined to get in.
I might just have to work a lotand I'd have to kind of grind
(04:02):
my way to make a career out ofit.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So trying to sell the dream to you there on a lot of
hours, yeah, money Right.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, a lot of people are going to sports I think are
naturally competitive.
Right May have played, and somaybe that maybe they know what
buttons to push Right To kind ofsee who's going to rise to the
challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But yeah, so you went to the, you went to the pacers
after.
Yeah, that's not like a dream,like hey, I'm, this is awesome.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well, yeah, I'd intern in college for the rca
tennis championships, which someof your listeners may recall if
they lived here in indy.
But you know that summer of2006 it was not uncommon for me
to be prospecting folks for youknow the two weeks that tennis
tournament was here to get sometickets for the tournament.
They had no idea that we evenhad a tennis tournament here in
(04:50):
Indianapolis, and so I learned alot early on about the power of
a brand, because, whether youlike the Pacers or not,
everyone's heard of them.
In this city, right, there'sonly 30 NBA teams so I could be
on a plane to Mexico or wherever.
And that was always a funconversation topic of oh, you
worked for the Pacers and yeah,so that was a really fortunate
break and I tend to believethings don't happen on accident
(05:12):
and one of my classmates he'sactually my co-president of the
Sport Administration Club, ChrisEvans.
He had interned with the Pacerswhen I was interning for the
tennis tournament.
He ended up getting hired onfull time and I went back for my
senior year at Ball State andhe called me midway through and
just said hey, there's a rolethat's opened up and if you're
interested, let me know.
(05:33):
And so learned early on thepower of you know relationships
and classmates, quite frankly,being, you know, your biggest
advocates.
And so that was kind of whatgot my foot in the door, him
lobbying for me, and I had toearn it through the interview,
but at least he helped get me aninterview and I was off to the
races Ben before I'd even walkedfor graduation.
(05:54):
I finished up classes finalsabout two weeks before came back
and ended up walking forgraduation.
But I was already spring of 07in the field that I wanted to be
in in my hometown, in the NBA,arguably at the highest level of
sports, but starting off very,very entry level.
But I was thrilled with theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So your entry level at the Pacers?
What was the initial experiencelike?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, well, I think the first year going to work at
the time what was it?
Canseco Fieldhouse, now it'sCambridge, that was sort of a
cool pinch me moment right towork at at the time.
What was it?
Canseco Fieldhouse, now it'sCambridge, you know, that was
sort of a cool like pinch memoment, right.
I mean, we'd play basketballdown on the main floor at lunch
a lot of days and especiallylike long days when we'd be
there for home games at nightseeing the likes of, you know,
(06:38):
Larry Bird walking down thehallway.
Obviously, if you grew up inIndiana that was, that was
pretty special.
But I think, more than anything,that first year out of school,
especially working in sportsanyone that's worked in sports
would tell you the same.
But just learning that pacing ofI was at the field house a lot.
It was a good time in my lifeto be that way, just because I
was single and I wasn't marriedyet.
(06:59):
Now I've got four kids, so in adifferent season of life, but
the first year it wears you out.
You've got to kind of get inshape, right, because during the
six or so months of the NBAseason it's not uncommon if you
have three home games in a weekthat you're there I don't know
70, 80 hours a week, when youthink about eight to five plus,
and if you have a home gameyou're probably not getting out
(07:20):
of there until nine, 30, 10o'clock and then you turn around
and do it again and so youlearn to kind of just build that
stamina, that endurance, and byyears two, three and four I was
there four years it became muchmore normal, right, just that
pace and that tempo.
Well, I feel like I had a strongwork ethic, just from how I was
raised and how I approachedthings.
(07:40):
The first 22 years of my life,those next four years really, I
think, continued to develop inme a motor that I think has
stuck with me to today, you know, as of now being 40.
And so for me a lot of myexperiences and opportunities
and relationships, all roadslead back to the Pacers.
Like I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, you mentioned the word relationships a couple
of times already, withnetworking, even at Ball State,
and I'm encouraging to do thatand then just getting into the
Pacers, getting the job at thePacers and then, obviously, in
your role at the Pacers.
What did you learn about moreor less the relationship game
(08:22):
early in your career that maybechanged your course for the rest
of your career?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
The Pacers was a really just unique platform.
And look into the city you knowI had grown up in Indy.
I wasn't really wired into sortof the civic community and my
family didn't go to a lot ofPacers or Colts games or things
like that.
Growing up and so working theregave me a really unique window
into how the city works.
You know, when we host thefinal four or, you know, a big
(08:50):
10 championship or eventuallythe Superbowl in 2012,.
Like the various parties thatwork together.
You know Pacer SportsEntertainment's in the middle of
that with Visit Indy and theCapital Improvement Board and
the Indiana Sports Corps.
And I've always been somebodythat I think is pretty curious
and wants to kind of understandhow things work and having some
great role models.
Quite frankly, early that I wasexposed to Guys like Jim Morris
(09:13):
who had a big impact on me andunfortunately passed away last
summer, 24.
Jim was named president of thePacers about six months after I
started.
I didn't know who he was andquickly got up to speed on just
all the various things that he'ddone over his career Pretty
impactful roles in the city, aguy that prioritized, I feel
(09:35):
like, relationships above allelse.
He was always playing the longgame, always figuring out how he
could be helpful and be ofutility to others, and there
wasn't always an immediatereturn in it for him.
And I think when you do that,just like money right,
relationships compound and timecompounds.
And now I can honestly see that, 18 years into my career, if
(09:57):
you're really careful andthoughtful and you cultivate and
nurture relationships, peopledon't forget that and I think it
can lead to some pretty prettycool opportunities.
And so, yeah, just seeing Jim'sexample and then having the
platform that I did managingseason ticket accounts my first
couple of years, ultimatelytrying to renew those for both
companies and families and thenI moved into more suite sales,
(10:19):
selling the corporate boxes andmeeting a lot of the executives
from central Indiana.
That was just something Ialways tried to remember.
I read a great book duringthose years the Pacers, probably
around 2008 called Never EatAlone by Keith Ferrazzi, and it
was all about building successone relationship at a time.
And so, yeah, just sort of knewthat it would have to be built
brick by brick.
(10:39):
There's no shortcut right Interms of building a meaningful
network.
I don't think it's about havingthe largest network, but I
think it's about having the mostsort of breadth and depth in
terms of what makes it different.
Deep relationships sounds likeled you to the next opportunity.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
You know sports management, the ticket sales.
That's a young man, a youngwoman's game, as you already
mentioned.
That's a lot of hours, yeah,Very condensed.
So how did that nextopportunity come about?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Fall of 2011,.
I took an opportunity withExactTarget, which at the time I
remember somebody characterizedit to me as the Google of
Indianapolis, right, it was sortof this hot emerging tech
company.
It'd been around for about 10years.
When I joined, I think I wasemployee 1,000.
I didn't have a tech background, right, but the executives at
ExactTarget I'd gotten to knowbecause they'd bought a suite at
(11:28):
the Pacers and so one inparticular, the chief marketing
officer, tim Kopp at the time,had just really taken an
interest in me and had kind ofbecome a mentor outside of just
being a client.
And so I had been approached bysome other pro sports teams and
I was probably about 26, stillsingle, and kind of thinking I
might spread my wings and moveoutside Indy for a period, Just
(11:51):
because you know, I'd grown uphere, went to college an hour
away and was back, and so I wasinterviewing with some teams out
on the West Coast down Southand was starting to confide in
some mentors about it.
And, tim, when I talked to himabout it he's like well, why
don't you just come over here?
We're looking for someone withyour background that understands
the sports and entertainmentspace and kind of manage all of
(12:13):
our strategic partnerships atExactTarget, as well as work
with our sales team on how do weposition and sell to this
specific vertical.
And so, yeah, I thought a lotabout it, prayed about it,
talked to some folks and, at theend of the day, ended up moving
over there at 26.
And some ways felt like I wasstarting over because I was
going into an industry that Ididn't really know.
(12:34):
But I knew that this was acompany that and I didn't know
much about IPOs or anything likethat, but I knew this was a
company that was on just apretty unique growth trajectory
and so shortly after I joinedlike nine months after I joined
we went public and then a yearlater Salesforce bought us.
So I got to live through allthat in a pretty short amount of
time.
I left maybe six months afterthe Salesforce acquisition but,
(12:57):
yeah, in the two and a halfyears I was there got to do some
really unique things thatmanaged all of our partnerships
with Andretti and IndyCar andthe Pacers and the Colts and
then kind of worked with oursales teams across all of our
geos across four or fivecontinents on how do we sell and
position our email software tothe sports, media and
entertainment vertical.
(13:17):
So it was a great, greatexperience, you know, went to
Europe, went to South America,traveled all over the U?
S.
It was a ton of fun and just areally unique culture.
That felt like lightning in abottle those three years that I
was at.
You know exact target andSalesforce.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Outside it looked like you took a really big risk.
For you you took a right turnand had the opportunity for a
C-suite position with EdgeMentoring.
But that next change that wasnonprofit, like starting
entrepreneurial journey.
Really, you're startingsomething from scratch, more or
less.
Tell us about, like thatexperience of going to a
(13:56):
nonprofit world, startingsomething from scratch, like
tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I would say, you know , thinking about the name of
this show, while some peoplemight think going into NIL was
risky or a dumb move, you know,a little over a year ago I think
back to I think it was almost10, 11 years ago now that I
resigned from Salesforce anddecided to go all in on edge,
and that probably was theriskiest career move that I've
(14:23):
made and it didn't make a ton ofsense on paper.
I think I was 29.
I was newly married.
My wife had just moved herefrom Louisville.
She was a nurse at the time.
We didn't have kids.
And again I go back torelationships.
Another key mentor in my life atthat time, a guy by the name of
Jeff Simmons.
He's the CEO of Elanco Got toknow him through the Pacers as
(14:43):
well.
I'd been involved in amentoring group with him and a
group of guys for three or fouryears and we called it our edge
group after Proverbs 27, 17,.
As iron sharpens iron, so oneman sharpens another.
He called me one day in late2013, about a month after I'd
been married, and just said hey,this edge thing, we've cobbled
together four or five othergroups with volunteer mentors
(15:05):
and a group of 20 somethingmentees and he said we need a
leader.
I feel like we just need tokind of let these groups run
their course and that'll be kindof what.
What edge was four or fivegroups and neat thing.
But he's like I just feel likethere's a lot more potential
here and he didn't have time,obviously, to go run this full
time.
And so a lot of it was myrelationship with him, my belief
(15:26):
in him, my experience as amentee in that group for three
or four years.
We'd have calls twice a monthover Zoom and just the value I
got out of that.
It was kind of a third place.
That wasn't my work and itwasn't where I went to church.
It's sort of this what we nowcall whole life
intergenerational mentoring.
And Ben, I know you led a groupfor a number of years.
You experienced that as amentor, but you know it was just
(15:49):
and like anythingentrepreneurial, you got to bet
on yourself, right.
So I felt like you know mybelief in sort of the guy that
was asking me to come do it withhim, more or less, and then the
product, if you will, and Iknew that it would all come down
to getting high caliber mentorsIf we were able to do that.
I think we could attract highcaliber mentees, and so I
(16:09):
thought honestly though I'd doit for like two years, maybe
help get it off the ground andhopefully find some success and
jump back to the private sector.
And it turned in almost six andI learned a ton during that
ride.
We had our first two kids athome when I was there.
We scaled it to mentees andmentors from, I think, 45 states
.
Several countries Got a grantfrom the Lilly Endowment.
(16:31):
We put on six leadershipconferences called EdgeX.
We'd pack out a venue with2,500 people, with speakers like
Tony Dungy and Bob Goff andMitch Daniels, and it was just a
really, really uniqueexperience to have in my early
30s leading a small yet growingorganization.
We were never more than amillion dollar budget staff of
(16:53):
five or six, but learning tomanage a scorecard, learning to
report up to a board and lead ateam and hire and fire and do
something that was prettymeaningful, right, we weren't
just selling widgets, we were,you know, connecting mentors and
mentees in these relationships,and I still get stories.
You know I've been gone forwhat five years.
I'll still, you know, hear frommentors and mentees, some
(17:17):
groups that I helped puttogether, that still meet once a
month, right, that I, quitefrankly, may have forgotten
about.
That I even put together andthese folks have been in each
other's weddings and big part ofeach other's lives, so yeah, it
was a super rewarding.
But on paper I remember runninginto people those first couple
months after leaving Salesforce,which is a household brand here
(17:38):
in Indy, really nationally inthe software space, and like
what are you doing?
I'm entering an organizationand so you know I think God was
humbling me a bit that like it'snot about my brand.
After my name you know I'dworked for two great ones at the
Pacers and Exact TargetSalesforce, and so having to
build something and kind of notlean on that as sort of what
gives me my identity and my wifeis a great resource and support
(18:01):
during that time, cause therewere some I'm sure I was like,
but I make the right decisionbecause it was sort of a
backwards move on paper but itbecame this platform that you
know I was leading at arelatively young age and opened
up a whole new world ofrelationships that you know
still serve, serve me well tothis day.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, what are some other things?
When you look back on thatexperience, where it was cloudy
at the time of, like was thisthe right move, like it doesn't
match what I've done before.
What were some of those things?
Now that you look back on that,you're like that really served
the purpose in this way.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah Well, I think for me, like at that time in my
life you know, basically 30years old, early 30s a lot of my
peers, whatever field they'rein, they're learning to do one
or two things pretty well and Ifeel like my capacity was really
stretched because I was forcedto do some things that maybe I,
quite frankly, wasn't ready todo or wasn't prepared to do in
(18:56):
terms of leading an organizationand you know, you can't be good
at everything Right.
But being exposed to sort ofthings that I'm not a CFO, right
, so I'm not somebody thatthat's not the greatest use of
my time.
When you're in a small org andhaving to understand how to read
sort of a P&L and understandwhat questions to ask those
sorts of things, it was humblingand sometimes had to be
vulnerable.
(19:17):
I don't know what the rightanswer is here.
Right, lean on your board, leanon others outside the
organization advisors, mentors,and so I think, just at the end
of the day, like being pressuretested a little bit while I made
mistakes and there's probablycertain settings where I got a
little defensive because Iwanted to do well and we were
coming up short in an area.
(19:37):
At the end of the day, likebeing stretched and being
pressure tested and being alittle bit a lot outside my
comfort zone at times, like Ihad to get up and speak, as you
know, ben, in front of, like,large groups of people, and in
fact that prepared me well andserved me well, because I have
to do that now in variouscommunity roles I have, or even
in my day job with BoilermakerAlliance.
You have to get up in front of,sometimes, groups of very
(20:00):
important people, both small andlarge, and be concise and
deliver an engaging, you know,sort of message, and so learning
to do that at 30 was super,super helpful, not to mention
just being learning how tooperate and lead and manage a
scorecard and those sorts ofthings.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
What were some like interesting things learned?
I've never been in a nonprofitsetting like that.
What were some interestingthings that you learned about
just that space in general thatwas interesting for you.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I think running a nonprofit is harder than running
a business, and I've actuallytalked to business guys about
this that have tried to get intothe nonprofit space.
I mean, and there's really notthat much difference other than
it's a tax code difference.
You still have to have money inthe bank somehow, right.
You have to pay your team, youhave to have a vision, you have
to.
Whatever it is you're selling,you know whether it's donors or
(20:50):
some nonprofits.
It is a fee for service.
So there's a mixture of sort ofrevenue sources, like you have
to have a business plan right,more or less, even if it's a
nonprofit.
And so sometimes I think youknow in business you have a
product or a service, a widgetor a benefit.
You know your case insurance,you guys are experts and you've
(21:12):
owned that.
And sometimes when you're in anonprofit, whether it's Edge or
pick another, you know WheelerMission you're really trying to
influence.
You have to lead and influencepeople to give up their spare
time right to choose tovolunteer, to potentially get
warmed up to where they mightcontribute financially to your
organization, and so it's veryintense relationally and so
(21:34):
learning to juggle and manage alot of relationships you know
it's hard to do that well atscale and to still maintain that
level of like personalizationwhich I really put a premium on.
I think scaling a startupnonprofit is just really
difficult.
Right, because there's timeswhere it almost felt more
manageable when it was smallerand then as we were gaining some
(21:55):
velocity without more resources.
Right, not that you just throwpeople at problems, but it
became a lot.
Right, not that you just throwpeople at problems, but it
became a lot.
Right when you're like man,it's only a five or six person
org with maybe a million bucksin revenue, but you're thinking
about it all the time and it canbe hard to find ways to sort of
disconnect and recharge.
Because I felt like a lot oftimes a lot would have to run
through me because I was theglue with board or with donors
(22:17):
or with mentors and sometimesyou try to not be the cog.
I believe in empoweredleadership and getting out of
the way, but at the end of theday, people want to talk to you,
right?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I can relate to that on scaling a small
business, of when most of thethroughput runs through you or
in some way connected to you, ofhow do you scale and empower
others, and certainly thejourney that we've been on over
the last several years ofgrowing our business and that
sort of thing.
Well, I want to spend some timedigging into your current role
(22:51):
with the Boilermaker Alliance.
Tell us a little bit about howthe opportunity initially like
came along for you and like kindof what you also saw with this
opportunity in like Wild West,where all the cowboys live, is
now NIL.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, again, a bit kind of how my career has gone
for somebody that's pretty goaloriented.
I've learned, you know, youkind of can only really focus on
maybe three years at a time andyou've got to take what the
wind gives you and certainopportunities come along.
And so you know, after Edge wedidn't talk about it but I went
to Prolific, which was aconsulting firm, as a chief
(23:27):
revenue officer.
You know had some pretty goodscale to it and that was a great
four years that I was there.
But you know, I got contactedin the fall of 23, ben, by a
executive recruiter who I'veknown for a while and is a
friend, and he'd been hired bythe board of the Boilermaker
Alliance to find their CEO.
And so obviously I'd heardabout and paid attention to NIL
(23:49):
by no means was I an expert, butwhen I thought about just the
opportunity to get in more orless on the ground floor of NIL
it's been around for three yearsessentially now, and so this
was a little over a year ago toget in, to learn the space it's
(24:09):
not going away but it isevolving pretty rapidly and to
do it at a Big Ten school, atPurdue, where obviously I'm not
a grad but think the world of it, especially after the decade of
Mitch Daniels' leadership there.
Purdue's on a tear and has agreat reputation globally, and
so to be able to work alongsidean institution like Purdue still
do it from Indy, where we'repretty rooted, and I get up
there a couple of times a weekand just to learn and to meet.
(24:32):
I mean I work with so manydifferent stakeholders from not
just our athletic department atPurdue but head coaches and
their staffs.
Obviously we work with studentathletes, work with the board of
trustees.
I've got my own board at theAlliance and so, for those that
don't know, I run BoilermakerAlliance, which is the
collective that sits outside ofPurdue University.
(24:53):
Legally we have to, but we arethe exclusive collective of
Purdue University Athletics, soI view it as really we're an
extension of the team.
Again, there has to be sunlightbetween the collective and the
university legally, but anystudent athlete that receives
NIL money at Purdue, they're oncontract with us and so we
probably work with a hundredstudent athletes from seven or
(25:16):
eight different sports.
Obviously we work a lot withfootball and men's basketball,
given that those are the tworevenue generating sports that
sort of carry all the otherprograms.
But the entire women'svolleyball team's on contract
with us work with some women'sbasketball, some baseball,
tennis, golf.
It's been a great experience.
Obviously, I joined four monthsbefore Purdue went to the Final
(25:38):
Four in Phoenix last April,which was a great experience,
and then we had a pretty roughfootball season.
So I got to experience bothextremes of the good and sort of
the tougher times and got a newfootball coach a month or two
ago.
So rebuilding there.
But you know, at the end of theday the collective is out
working with individual donorsas well as companies in some
(25:59):
cases that sort of see the valuethat our student athletes at
Purdue bring to the university,and so any student athlete that
is on contract with us they're1099 employees at the collective
they're required.
Their obligations and theircontract stipulate that they
have to serve at nonprofitscertain amount of times a month
and then leverage theirplatforms, their social media,
(26:21):
to promote those charities inreturn.
And so we manage all thatthrough a software and
documentation process so thatwe're doing everything above
board and we take that veryseriously, so that it's not just
pay to play, as some peoplemight call it, at other schools
where they're just paying kidsand they don't have to do
anything for it.
We really believe that whilewe're trying to build champions
(26:43):
on the field or on the court, wealso want these formative years
to be champions in theircommunity and really finding
things that they're passionateabout, whether it's the Boys and
Girls Club or reading atelementary schools, or showing
up at a varsity blood bank driveand again leveraging sort of
their brand, their likeness, tobring benefit to the charities
and causes they care about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So, dave, we're obviously in Indianapolis, home
of the NCAA.
So then, this topic floatingaround here, probably longer, or
at least more more loudly, giveour listeners just a little bit
of background on, like wasthere a law?
Was it legislation?
What actually enacted this thatwe'll today call NIL, which of
(27:27):
course stands for name, imageand likeness?
When did it roughly start?
When did it heat up?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, so on July 1st of 2021.
Yeah, so what's that about?
Three and a half years ago now,there'd been several court
cases and culminating in onethat really allowed, as of July
1st 2021, student athletes tofinancially profit off of their
own name, image and likeness,their personal brand, right?
(27:53):
And you could go back to a lotof people recall Ed O'Bannon,
who was a basketball player atUCLA.
A lot of this started with youthink about video games or
jersey sales.
Schools were making a lot ofmoney off of jersey sales and
none of that money obviouslywould flow to the student
athletes, right?
Or video games, ea Sports,those types of things where
(28:15):
their likenesses are being used,but they don't see any of that
and probably the old schoolthought is well, they get a
scholarship, be enough, right?
They're amateurs.
And I think the reality is thatcollege athletics has become an
economic machine.
You see that, with the risingsalaries of football coaches,
basketball coaches, supportstaff, administrators, I mean,
(28:35):
well, we've got college footballcoaches making 13, 12 million a
year.
It's become big business, bigmoney.
And does that mean that studentathletes should get paid that
same amount?
Maybe not, but I think themsharing in a slice of that pie,
you could argue makes sense.
And so a couple of thingsconverged that probably weren't
originally designed to converge,and that is NIL, from three and
(28:58):
a half years ago to thetransfer portal right, which,
when I took this role a littleover a year ago, the rule was
still that you could transferonce as an undergrad and once as
a grad student.
And then, a few months into metaking the job this was probably
spring of 24, there was aninjunction, another court case,
where basically just stayed thefact that, hey, student athletes
(29:20):
can now transfer unlimited, asmuch as they want.
So now it's almost like becomeanytime.
There's an open portal windowwhich those are designated times
throughout the year, dependingon the sport.
It becomes this yeah, in somecases it feels like you hear
about, read about bidding wars,right, where so-and-so is
throwing their name in theportal, and just because you
know the portal doesn't meanyou're going to switch schools.
(29:40):
Sometimes people enter theportal and end up staying at
their school, right, but schoolsthen are, you know, once
they're in the portal, you'relegally allowed to contact that
student athlete.
And again, when I started, youcouldn't be specific about what
you could pay them.
In NIL you could kind of usegeneralities and say, hey, we
have someone over here that isin a similar position as you and
(30:01):
here's what their package lookslike.
We see you in a similar package.
Now you can be very direct andspecific.
So it's like, hey, if you comehere, we're going to put you on
full ride.
We can pay you X amount ofdollars a month in NIL.
And it's just evolved veryquickly just in the last year.
And then, as we look forward tothis summer, july 1st, revenue
sharing is set to begin, whereand this is as a result of the
(30:22):
House versus the NCAA settlementagain, which was not in motion
until May of 24.
There was preliminary approvalgranted in October of 24.
And then April 7th is sort ofthe big date coming up that the
judge will either approve thesettlement or maybe not.
But the Power Four conferencesare certainly planning on
revenue sharing to start July1st, which means schools can now
(30:45):
start directly compensatingstudent-athletes which, again,
to date it's all gone throughcollectives.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
So how will that change?
Will Purdue adjust to have somemoney pay athletes to the
collective and some directlyfrom the university?
Based upon this, yeah, we'reworking through that right now.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I know every other school, especially at the Power
4 conference level and thesettlement.
Without getting into too muchlegalities, they're really
trying to rein in the donorpiece of collectives, the
charitable contributions,because that can get a little
bit all over the place, but theydo.
It will be permissible, is ourunderstanding, to keep really a
(31:23):
for-profit collective that'sfocused on true endorsements and
NIL deals.
And so we're working throughthat right now what that could
look like at Purdue, whetherthat comes in-house, whether
that's still a third-partycollective that's again just
focused on working with brandsthat would want an Eli Lillian
company or a Roarman Just usinga couple of local examples that
(31:45):
may want to partner with Purduestudent athletes, a Braden Smith
, a women's volleyball player,something along those lines.
So it's a pretty dynamic timeand while that's in what five
months we're actively kind ofworking on plans towards that
end.
We're actively kind of workingon plans towards that end.
But we got to obviously getthrough April 7th, which is this
big sort of date on the judge'scalendar, to see if this
(32:05):
settlement does in fact getapproved.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
So what role, if any, does the NCAA still play?
Because everything you've said,it sounds like all the rules
are being promulgated via courtcases.
It's kind of like the outcomeof the court case then kind of
tells you what you can't do andthen you kind of then figure OK,
well, then everything else iswhat you can do.
Does the NCAA play a role inthis today?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, that's a great question and they do.
And I think this House v NCAAsettlement I know the NCAA
obviously hopes that it doessettle so they don't have to go
to court will help to probablyrein some things in to where the
NCAA is obviously adapting andtheir goal is to.
Obviously, I mean they stilladminister a lot of college
(32:48):
championships.
They don't obviously do collegefootball right, I think that
was 10 years or so ago thatcollege football playoff started
, but men's basketball isobviously a huge revenue driver
for the NCAA the March Madnesstournament, but then they do all
you know a bunch of otherchampionships that don't often
get a ton of airtime and so theystill wield a lot of influence.
But it's also, I know, beenprobably a challenging few years
.
Right, you've got all theseindividual states have their own
(33:12):
NIL statutes or laws.
Now we don't have one inIndiana and I don't claim to
know why that is.
Maybe it is because the NCAA isin our backyard, but you know,
you've got 50 states and theyprobably, if they do, have an
NIL law.
They're all a little bitdifferent.
So that's why you hear aboutthe NCAA lobbying Congress to
say we need to get someuniformity here, right, as we
(33:32):
move into the future.
But for me it's been funbecause I'm probably not
somebody that would thrive justin a very normal boring nine to
five.
So to kind of be on the leadingedge and cutting edge and
learning and having to adapt.
Yeah, it can be stressful attimes but it's been pretty
rewarding and fulfilling,especially to do at a place like
Purdue.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
It kind of just makes me think of, like the Hamilton
play, where he talks about justbeing in the room where it
happens, you know.
Yeah, you mentioned Purdue's.
You said it was our strategy orour belief of Purdue is that,
you know, obviously we werebelievers in NIL, or if it's
just a pay to play or if there'sa different strategy, is there
(34:25):
a lot of different things thatuniversities are pursuing at
this point?
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, I would say it definitely varies institution to
institution, you know, I thinkobviously I can only speak on
behalf of the collective, Ican't speak on behalf of the
athletic department.
But you know Purdue has, Ithink, 600,000 living alumni and
I've learned a lot about justsort of the makeup.
Obviously a lot of people talkabout Purdue being a STEM school
(34:51):
.
Pumps out, I think we have10,000 engineering majors of the
50,000 undergrads, big agbackground presidents.
We obviously put people on themoon like Neil Armstrong
astronauts, and so that lendsitself to be in a more just,
conservative sort of alumni baseand so sometimes they're one of
the more just, humble, educated, passionate sports fan bases
(35:16):
that I've interacted with.
I mean we had a rough 1-11football season and Ross-Ade
Stadium was full almost everygame.
I think it holds 62,000.
Last game against Penn State,last home game of the season,
they had 58,000 people there.
I mean it's a pretty remarkableloyalty in terms of the fan
base.
Obviously, men's basketball,women's volleyball was in the
(35:37):
Sweet 16.
We've got some tremendousprograms right now at Purdue and
so they care, they're loyal.
But it's not just wins andlosses at a place like Purdue,
some schools it probably is justthat I think when you go to
Purdue you're choosing hard alittle bit right West Lafayette
is not the South and it's notalways the easiest place to get
(35:57):
to if you're not from around theMidwest.
You're going to be pushedacademically right.
It's a rigorous academicinstitution as a state school.
But you're going to also leavewith a elite education and a
great network of alumni that'llsupport you and so, yeah, I mean
I think we are.
Purdue was probably a littlelate to the game in NIL because
(36:18):
they weren't you know I won'tname other schools, they weren't
paying folks previously underthe table.
I think some schools probablyjust brought their operation
from under the table to abovethe table, so they had
infrastructure already in placebut we've had to catch up a bit.
But I think Purdue alums can bevery proud that we've done it
the right way.
You know we've done it withhigh character, integrity,
(36:40):
excellence and I've really triedto mirror what Purdue is all
about in terms of their corevalues.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
That sounds a lot like that thread that you even
talked about with edge mentoring, that it's whole person care,
it's not just about this or that.
So it's not just about theathletics, you care about them
involved with community, howthey handle themselves as people
.
As a student, that's prettycool.
This is something I've thoughtabout a lot lately.
(37:06):
How does this change thelandscape of college athletics?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Obviously I'm not in thoserooms, but something that we've
worked hard, we've partnered upwith.
There's a former studentathlete at Purdue, young guy,
he's getting his master's inaccounting.
He'd been in the locker roomsright where guys were getting
NIL payments and just reallydeveloped a passion for how do
we equip these young men andwomen with financial acumen,
(37:34):
right?
$50,000 or less, sometimes more, from the time of 18 to 22.
Or now it feels like you readabout 25-year-old college
student athletes because, hey,if you can stay, if you can get
a fifth or sixth year and make alittle bit more money and you
know you're.
I mean, the reality is 99% ofthese student athletes won't
play at the next level, right.
(37:55):
But if you can make a handsomesix figures or in some cases
seven figures that early in yourlife, right.
I mean, just let the power ofcompound interest do its thing
and don't touch a lot of it,right.
And so we've partnered withthis young man who came to us
and also came to the athleticdepartment and he had been
working with a couple professorsin the Daniel School of
Business at Purdue and they'vecreated like a nine class course
(38:18):
that they've been kind ofrolling out and meeting with the
various varsity teams at Purdue, everything from the basics of
personal finance, saving,investing, accounting, taxes,
all those sorts of things.
And we feel like again, that'sin line with who Purdue is as an
institution and could be a realarrow in the quiver as this
(38:39):
gets rolled out for recruitingright and still confidence with
parents that are thinking abouttheir son or daughter coming to
Purdue.
And you know, I think at theend of the day, relationships,
culture, chemistry, leadership,those things still matter right.
And there's kids, that youngpeople that I think hunger for
that.
They're not just about wherecan I go, get paid the most or
(39:00):
secure the bag right, as youngpeople say.
And so I think you know,knowing that Purdue is going to
kind of look for people that fit, that are program guys and
girls that fit sort of thePurdue brand it's not going to
be for everyone.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Doing that over the course of four years.
How does this change thecoach's dynamic and what
decisions do they have to make?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Well, take, for example, our new football coach
at Purdue, barry Odom, got heremiddle of December, right, so
he's not even two months in onthe job.
There was a December transferportal for football.
We added 40 guys okay, 29 fromthe transfer portal meaning they
were at other colleges 11 highschool guys okay.
And you know I can speakobviously pretty candidly on our
(39:44):
men's basketball program.
Matt Painter is obviously oneof the best college basketball
coaches there is currently andhe didn't even touch the
transfer portal this past men'sbasketball portal, which is kind
of unheard of in today'sculture, and so he is still
running, and I believe BarryOdom, our football coach, will
do the same.
A development oriented programright where they're recruiting
(40:07):
high school guys, becomes atwo-time national player of the
year.
Now is the number nine pick inthe NBA and having a great
rookie season.
I mean, that's all Matt Painterand his staff right there.
(40:28):
And so you know football is alittle bit different because you
have 85 scholarship guyscompared to 13 for men's
basketball.
So the nature, just the volumeof guys on the roster, it's
naturally going to be moretransactional right, where I
don't care if you're Ohio Statewho just won the national
championship or Purdue.
That was one in 11, we'reprobably both having to deal
(40:50):
with the portal, right, forvarious reasons.
Guys at Ohio State that want toplay more and I like to have a
solid field.
Guys at Purdue because we had acoaching change or because we
had a rough season.
I want to go elsewhere and Ithink they have a better chance
of winning or playing and so,yeah, football is probably a
little harder to do.
That's my perspective justbecause you have so many guys.
So to keep all 85 sort of in adevelopment oriented, it's just
(41:14):
harder, right, because there's alot more cooks in the kitchen
versus.
You can be a little bit morecontained with 13 guys and some
walk-ons on your basketballprogram.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, it's been interesting.
On football broadcast I feellike 20% of the time they're
saying who was in the portal andwhere they were last year.
It's like 20% of the broadcast.
Well, dave, thanks for comingon today and having a
conversation and teaching ussome of the lessons you've
learned along the way andtalking through NIL.
(41:46):
It's also a great pleasure frommy perspective, knowing you for
so long and just seeing youcontinue to just excel in
everything that you do.
So we end our show with twoquestions that we have for every
guest that I want to ask you.
So the first one being is letme get to my note here what is a
risk you have taken that haschanged your life?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I'll go back to that decision at 29 to resign from
Salesforce and go all in on edge.
Mentoring Felt a lot riskierthan what I just did a little
over a year ago jumping into NIL.
I felt a lot riskier than what Ijust did a little over a year
ago jumping into NIL just at theseason of life, and it was a
pay cut, it was a benefit cut,it was a startup nonprofit and
it was risky, like I said, onpaper, but just felt like it was
(42:32):
almost like a calling for a lotof reasons that I felt I that
got affirmed in so many waysover the six years that I was
with Edge and again learned somany lessons, got humbled.
But I think I wouldn't againhave some of these leadership
opportunities both in my day jobnow at Boilermaker Alliance and
in the community, had it notbeen for sort of taking that
(42:55):
leap of faith and going all inon edge.
You know I could have stayed acog at Salesforce or a great
brand like that, but that reallyforced me to have to really
become an entrepreneur right andnot just kind of hide behind
whatever the brand of thecompanies I worked for, the
pedigree of the schools you wentto and like okay, what can you
actually do?
(43:15):
Right and I think that's agreat lesson in entrepreneurship
right, like you have to driveoutcomes daily.
It feels like so, versus havingother people sort of do it for
you.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
So yeah, and we haven't really talked about this
much, but you mentioned ittoday.
It seemed like you got a lot ofexternal like not challenge,
that's probably not the rightword but like well, what did you
do or why did you do that?
So, probably finding thataffirmation was in the quiet
places, I would imagine.
So, yeah, probably finding thataffirmation was in the quiet
places, I would imagine.
Yeah, exactly.
(43:45):
The second question is what'sunfinished for you that you have
the resolve to complete in thenear or not?
Speaker 3 (43:52):
so near future?
Yeah, and I don't even know.
As I was thinking about this, Idon't know if there's a my mind
didn't necessarily go to aprofessional sort of thing, it
was more like me personally, youknow, turned 40 a little over a
month ago, and so thatobviously causes some reflection
of just how's life going.
And I've got four young kids,the oldest of which is eight,
and so, you know, really workingon myself, and not just
(44:15):
physical things or professionalthings, but as a husband, as a
father, even my own internallandscape, right, as guys we
don't talk a lot about ourfeelings or emotions often, but
making sure I'm healthy, right,because there's a lot pulling at
me right now in this season,and I know I've got a pretty
narrow window where my kidsactually want to hang around me.
(44:36):
I don't think it's 18 years,your kids are older, it's
probably like 10 years and thenthey want to hang with their own
friends, right I'm sorryAlready seeing that with my son
who's almost nine, but you know,so I think, while I'm kind of
living in the tension of beingthe best professional and best
community leader and those sortsof things, places where it's
easy to get a lot of affirmationlike working on myself so that
(44:57):
I show up as a, you know, just ahealthy husband, father, friend
and kind of live at peacewithin myself, as there are a
lot of just like pressures andthings pulling at you right now
and making sure I don't gettripped up by any of the
landmines that you see folks inmidlife sometimes deal with.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, no, I love that .
It's part of the role, but alsofun to go to some of those
basketball games or whatever.
I love seeing you with yourchildren taking them chances.
You get to enjoy the experiencewith you and I think that is
incredible.
But, dave, thanks for joiningus today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Guys, Love that you're doingthis.
This was fun.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Thanks for tuning in to Risk and Resolve.
See you next time.
You're listening to Risk and Resolve, and now for
your hosts, Ben Conner and ToddHufford.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Risk and Resolve pod with
our special guest today, DaveNeff, CEO of the Boilermaker
Alliance.
Dave, glad to have you today.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey, excited to be on , Excited for your guys' new
endeavor here.
Risk and Resolve.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, so obviously a lot of our listeners will
probably be excited.
You know the old boiler up deal, especially, todd, as a Purdue
alum, so they'll get to hear alittle bit about your endeavors
with Purdue and NIL here later.
But I'm personally pumped tohave you on, dave, just because
(00:48):
of our history and knowing eachother for so long.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah, by close to 30 years.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
That's crazy and kind of the thing of like you can't
make old friends, you know.
But I remember vividly earlymorning hoops driving across the
street to pick you up get abasketball practice.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
And your blue Mustang with your Dave Matthews band
bumper sticker.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That's right.
That's right Making sure thateveryone knew what my music
affinity was for.
But no, just really excited totalk about also your
professional journey and how youknow kind of weaving that
together and I've had a fun seatto kind of watch that along the
way.
But let's rewind the clockbefore we get into the
Boilermaker Alliance stuff.
Obviously we went to schooltogether at a private Christian
(01:36):
school here in Indianapolis andthen you chose to go to Ball
State.
Kind of share with me like whatwas your journey like and why
did you select Ball State?
You chose a major of sportsadministration, so tell me a
little bit about your journey ofchoosing Ball State and going
through the program there.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, I wish I could give you some elaborate sort of
plan here, but I think it.
You know, at least for me at 17, 18 years old, thinking about a
college, you know I was a goodstudent, worked hard, got good
grades, but didn't necessarilycast a super broad net at that
time in my life.
I'm going to go visit all thesecolleges and so, given where we
(02:15):
went to high school here inIndy private Christian school I
kind of thought I could go thatroute in college or try to
broaden my horizons, maybe go toa public state school, that
sort of thing.
And so, as I was just taking alook around growing up, my
father was a family practicephysician and I didn't
necessarily have a strong pullto go into medicine like he did.
(02:37):
I mean it was great for him andour family and so being active
in sports and not beingnecessarily that great of an
athlete but enjoying it andworking hard.
You know I thought a lot aboutsports broadcasting and you may
recall, ben, I think I was oursenior year, my senior year of
high school, as you're younger,but I was the PA announcer at
our high school basketball game.
(02:57):
So kind of dip my toe in thereand you know, ball State's known
for their telecommunicationsprogram, given David Letterman
being an alum, and so that wasreally it.
It Ball State's known for theirtelecommunications program,
given David Letterman being analum, so that was really it.
It wasn't anything crazy.
Went there as a TECOM majoractually first my freshman year
before transitioning into sportsadministration, and once I made
that pivot I really neverlooked back.
I didn't even know that was amajor back in 2003,.
(03:19):
Going to college, learned aboutit my freshman year kind of the
blending of business and sportsand different pathways from pro
sports to college to running aYMCA lots of different pathways,
should you choose to go intothat.
And so played club soccer.
Ended up working in theathletic department a couple of
years at Ball State, got somegreat experience, was president
(03:42):
of our sports administrationclub and just did a lot as an
undergrad to try to build myexperience and start to build my
network.
Because that was the thing theyalways told us was that it's
very competitive to break intosports and you're going to work
long hours and not make verymuch money.
So I was determined to get in.
I might just have to work a lotand I'd have to kind of grind
(04:02):
my way to make a career out ofit.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So trying to sell the dream to you there on a lot of
hours, yeah, money Right.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, a lot of people are going to sports I think are
naturally competitive.
Right May have played, and somaybe that maybe they know what
buttons to push Right To kind ofsee who's going to rise to the
challenge.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But yeah, so you went to the, you went to the pacers
after.
Yeah, that's not like a dream,like hey, I'm, this is awesome.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Well, yeah, I'd intern in college for the rca
tennis championships, which someof your listeners may recall if
they lived here in indy.
But you know that summer of2006 it was not uncommon for me
to be prospecting folks for youknow the two weeks that tennis
tournament was here to get sometickets for the tournament.
They had no idea that we evenhad a tennis tournament here in
(04:50):
Indianapolis, and so I learned alot early on about the power of
a brand, because, whether youlike the Pacers or not,
everyone's heard of them.
In this city, right, there'sonly 30 NBA teams so I could be
on a plane to Mexico or wherever.
And that was always a funconversation topic of oh, you
worked for the Pacers and yeah,so that was a really fortunate
break and I tend to believethings don't happen on accident
(05:12):
and one of my classmates he'sactually my co-president of the
Sport Administration Club, ChrisEvans.
He had interned with the Pacerswhen I was interning for the
tennis tournament.
He ended up getting hired onfull time and I went back for my
senior year at Ball State andhe called me midway through and
just said hey, there's a rolethat's opened up and if you're
interested, let me know.
(05:33):
And so learned early on thepower of you know relationships
and classmates, quite frankly,being, you know, your biggest
advocates.
And so that was kind of whatgot my foot in the door, him
lobbying for me, and I had toearn it through the interview,
but at least he helped get me aninterview and I was off to the
races Ben before I'd even walkedfor graduation.
(05:54):
I finished up classes finalsabout two weeks before came back
and ended up walking forgraduation.
But I was already spring of 07in the field that I wanted to be
in in my hometown, in the NBA,arguably at the highest level of
sports, but starting off very,very entry level.
But I was thrilled with theopportunity.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
So your entry level at the Pacers?
What was the initial experiencelike?
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, well, I think the first year going to work at
the time what was it?
Canseco Fieldhouse, now it'sCambridge, that was sort of a
cool pinch me moment right towork at at the time.
What was it?
Canseco Fieldhouse, now it'sCambridge, you know, that was
sort of a cool like pinch memoment, right.
I mean, we'd play basketballdown on the main floor at lunch
a lot of days and especiallylike long days when we'd be
there for home games at nightseeing the likes of, you know,
(06:38):
Larry Bird walking down thehallway.
Obviously, if you grew up inIndiana that was, that was
pretty special.
But I think, more than anything,that first year out of school,
especially working in sportsanyone that's worked in sports
would tell you the same.
But just learning that pacing ofI was at the field house a lot.
It was a good time in my lifeto be that way, just because I
was single and I wasn't marriedyet.
(06:59):
Now I've got four kids, so in adifferent season of life, but
the first year it wears you out.
You've got to kind of get inshape, right, because during the
six or so months of the NBAseason it's not uncommon if you
have three home games in a weekthat you're there I don't know
70, 80 hours a week, when youthink about eight to five plus,
and if you have a home gameyou're probably not getting out
(07:20):
of there until nine, 30, 10o'clock and then you turn around
and do it again and so youlearn to kind of just build that
stamina, that endurance, and byyears two, three and four I was
there four years it became muchmore normal, right, just that
pace and that tempo.
Well, I feel like I had a strongwork ethic, just from how I was
raised and how I approachedthings.
(07:40):
The first 22 years of my life,those next four years really, I
think, continued to develop inme a motor that I think has
stuck with me to today, you know, as of now being 40.
And so for me a lot of myexperiences and opportunities
and relationships, all roadslead back to the Pacers.
Like I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, you mentioned the word relationships a couple
of times already, withnetworking, even at Ball State,
and I'm encouraging to do thatand then just getting into the
Pacers, getting the job at thePacers and then, obviously, in
your role at the Pacers.
What did you learn about moreor less the relationship game
(08:22):
early in your career that maybechanged your course for the rest
of your career?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
The Pacers was a really just unique platform.
And look into the city you knowI had grown up in Indy.
I wasn't really wired into sortof the civic community and my
family didn't go to a lot ofPacers or Colts games or things
like that.
Growing up and so working theregave me a really unique window
into how the city works.
You know, when we host thefinal four or, you know, a big
(08:50):
10 championship or eventuallythe Superbowl in 2012,.
Like the various parties thatwork together.
You know Pacer SportsEntertainment's in the middle of
that with Visit Indy and theCapital Improvement Board and
the Indiana Sports Corps.
And I've always been somebodythat I think is pretty curious
and wants to kind of understandhow things work and having some
great role models.
Quite frankly, early that I wasexposed to Guys like Jim Morris
(09:13):
who had a big impact on me andunfortunately passed away last
summer, 24.
Jim was named president of thePacers about six months after I
started.
I didn't know who he was andquickly got up to speed on just
all the various things that he'ddone over his career Pretty
impactful roles in the city, aguy that prioritized, I feel
(09:35):
like, relationships above allelse.
He was always playing the longgame, always figuring out how he
could be helpful and be ofutility to others, and there
wasn't always an immediatereturn in it for him.
And I think when you do that,just like money right,
relationships compound and timecompounds.
And now I can honestly see that, 18 years into my career, if
(09:57):
you're really careful andthoughtful and you cultivate and
nurture relationships, peopledon't forget that and I think it
can lead to some pretty prettycool opportunities.
And so, yeah, just seeing Jim'sexample and then having the
platform that I did managingseason ticket accounts my first
couple of years, ultimatelytrying to renew those for both
companies and families and thenI moved into more suite sales,
(10:19):
selling the corporate boxes andmeeting a lot of the executives
from central Indiana.
That was just something Ialways tried to remember.
I read a great book duringthose years the Pacers, probably
around 2008 called Never EatAlone by Keith Ferrazzi, and it
was all about building successone relationship at a time.
And so, yeah, just sort of knewthat it would have to be built
brick by brick.
(10:39):
There's no shortcut right Interms of building a meaningful
network.
I don't think it's about havingthe largest network, but I
think it's about having the mostsort of breadth and depth in
terms of what makes it different.
Deep relationships sounds likeled you to the next opportunity.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
You know sports management, the ticket sales.
That's a young man, a youngwoman's game, as you already
mentioned.
That's a lot of hours, yeah,Very condensed.
So how did that nextopportunity come about?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Fall of 2011,.
I took an opportunity withExactTarget, which at the time I
remember somebody characterizedit to me as the Google of
Indianapolis, right, it was sortof this hot emerging tech
company.
It'd been around for about 10years.
When I joined, I think I wasemployee 1,000.
I didn't have a tech background, right, but the executives at
ExactTarget I'd gotten to knowbecause they'd bought a suite at
(11:28):
the Pacers and so one inparticular, the chief marketing
officer, tim Kopp at the time,had just really taken an
interest in me and had kind ofbecome a mentor outside of just
being a client.
And so I had been approached bysome other pro sports teams and
I was probably about 26, stillsingle, and kind of thinking I
might spread my wings and moveoutside Indy for a period, Just
(11:51):
because you know, I'd grown uphere, went to college an hour
away and was back, and so I wasinterviewing with some teams out
on the West Coast down Southand was starting to confide in
some mentors about it.
And, tim, when I talked to himabout it he's like well, why
don't you just come over here?
We're looking for someone withyour background that understands
the sports and entertainmentspace and kind of manage all of
(12:13):
our strategic partnerships atExactTarget, as well as work
with our sales team on how do weposition and sell to this
specific vertical.
And so, yeah, I thought a lotabout it, prayed about it,
talked to some folks and, at theend of the day, ended up moving
over there at 26.
And some ways felt like I wasstarting over because I was
going into an industry that Ididn't really know.
(12:34):
But I knew that this was acompany that and I didn't know
much about IPOs or anything likethat, but I knew this was a
company that was on just apretty unique growth trajectory
and so shortly after I joinedlike nine months after I joined
we went public and then a yearlater Salesforce bought us.
So I got to live through allthat in a pretty short amount of
time.
I left maybe six months afterthe Salesforce acquisition but,
(12:57):
yeah, in the two and a halfyears I was there got to do some
really unique things thatmanaged all of our partnerships
with Andretti and IndyCar andthe Pacers and the Colts and
then kind of worked with oursales teams across all of our
geos across four or fivecontinents on how do we sell and
position our email software tothe sports, media and
entertainment vertical.
(13:17):
So it was a great, greatexperience, you know, went to
Europe, went to South America,traveled all over the U?
S.
It was a ton of fun and just areally unique culture.
That felt like lightning in abottle those three years that I
was at.
You know exact target andSalesforce.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Outside it looked like you took a really big risk.
For you you took a right turnand had the opportunity for a
C-suite position with EdgeMentoring.
But that next change that wasnonprofit, like starting
entrepreneurial journey.
Really, you're startingsomething from scratch, more or
less.
Tell us about, like thatexperience of going to a
(13:56):
nonprofit world, startingsomething from scratch, like
tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I would say, you know , thinking about the name of
this show, while some peoplemight think going into NIL was
risky or a dumb move, you know,a little over a year ago I think
back to I think it was almost10, 11 years ago now that I
resigned from Salesforce anddecided to go all in on edge,
and that probably was theriskiest career move that I've
(14:23):
made and it didn't make a ton ofsense on paper.
I think I was 29.
I was newly married.
My wife had just moved herefrom Louisville.
She was a nurse at the time.
We didn't have kids.
And again I go back torelationships.
Another key mentor in my life atthat time, a guy by the name of
Jeff Simmons.
He's the CEO of Elanco Got toknow him through the Pacers as
(14:43):
well.
I'd been involved in amentoring group with him and a
group of guys for three or fouryears and we called it our edge
group after Proverbs 27, 17,.
As iron sharpens iron, so oneman sharpens another.
He called me one day in late2013, about a month after I'd
been married, and just said hey,this edge thing, we've cobbled
together four or five othergroups with volunteer mentors
(15:05):
and a group of 20 somethingmentees and he said we need a
leader.
I feel like we just need tokind of let these groups run
their course and that'll be kindof what.
What edge was four or fivegroups and neat thing.
But he's like I just feel likethere's a lot more potential
here and he didn't have time,obviously, to go run this full
time.
And so a lot of it was myrelationship with him, my belief
(15:26):
in him, my experience as amentee in that group for three
or four years.
We'd have calls twice a monthover Zoom and just the value I
got out of that.
It was kind of a third place.
That wasn't my work and itwasn't where I went to church.
It's sort of this what we nowcall whole life
intergenerational mentoring.
And Ben, I know you led a groupfor a number of years.
You experienced that as amentor, but you know it was just
(15:49):
and like anythingentrepreneurial, you got to bet
on yourself, right.
So I felt like you know mybelief in sort of the guy that
was asking me to come do it withhim, more or less, and then the
product, if you will, and Iknew that it would all come down
to getting high caliber mentorsIf we were able to do that.
I think we could attract highcaliber mentees, and so I
(16:09):
thought honestly though I'd doit for like two years, maybe
help get it off the ground andhopefully find some success and
jump back to the private sector.
And it turned in almost six andI learned a ton during that
ride.
We had our first two kids athome when I was there.
We scaled it to mentees andmentors from, I think, 45 states
.
Several countries Got a grantfrom the Lilly Endowment.
(16:31):
We put on six leadershipconferences called EdgeX.
We'd pack out a venue with2,500 people, with speakers like
Tony Dungy and Bob Goff andMitch Daniels, and it was just a
really, really uniqueexperience to have in my early
30s leading a small yet growingorganization.
We were never more than amillion dollar budget staff of
(16:53):
five or six, but learning tomanage a scorecard, learning to
report up to a board and lead ateam and hire and fire and do
something that was prettymeaningful, right, we weren't
just selling widgets, we were,you know, connecting mentors and
mentees in these relationships,and I still get stories.
You know I've been gone forwhat five years.
I'll still, you know, hear frommentors and mentees, some
(17:17):
groups that I helped puttogether, that still meet once a
month, right, that I, quitefrankly, may have forgotten
about.
That I even put together andthese folks have been in each
other's weddings and big part ofeach other's lives, so yeah, it
was a super rewarding.
But on paper I remember runninginto people those first couple
months after leaving Salesforce,which is a household brand here
(17:38):
in Indy, really nationally inthe software space, and like
what are you doing?
I'm entering an organizationand so you know I think God was
humbling me a bit that like it'snot about my brand.
After my name you know I'dworked for two great ones at the
Pacers and Exact TargetSalesforce, and so having to
build something and kind of notlean on that as sort of what
gives me my identity and my wifeis a great resource and support
(18:01):
during that time, cause therewere some I'm sure I was like,
but I make the right decisionbecause it was sort of a
backwards move on paper but itbecame this platform that you
know I was leading at arelatively young age and opened
up a whole new world ofrelationships that you know
still serve, serve me well tothis day.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, what are some other things?
When you look back on thatexperience, where it was cloudy
at the time of, like was thisthe right move, like it doesn't
match what I've done before.
What were some of those things?
Now that you look back on that,you're like that really served
the purpose in this way.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah Well, I think for me, like at that time in my
life you know, basically 30years old, early 30s a lot of my
peers, whatever field they'rein, they're learning to do one
or two things pretty well and Ifeel like my capacity was really
stretched because I was forcedto do some things that maybe I,
quite frankly, wasn't ready todo or wasn't prepared to do in
(18:56):
terms of leading an organizationand you know, you can't be good
at everything Right.
But being exposed to sort ofthings that I'm not a CFO, right
, so I'm not somebody thatthat's not the greatest use of
my time.
When you're in a small org andhaving to understand how to read
sort of a P&L and understandwhat questions to ask those
sorts of things, it was humblingand sometimes had to be
vulnerable.
(19:17):
I don't know what the rightanswer is here.
Right, lean on your board, leanon others outside the
organization advisors, mentors,and so I think, just at the end
of the day, like being pressuretested a little bit while I made
mistakes and there's probablycertain settings where I got a
little defensive because Iwanted to do well and we were
coming up short in an area.
(19:37):
At the end of the day, likebeing stretched and being
pressure tested and being alittle bit a lot outside my
comfort zone at times, like Ihad to get up and speak, as you
know, ben, in front of, like,large groups of people, and in
fact that prepared me well andserved me well, because I have
to do that now in variouscommunity roles I have, or even
in my day job with BoilermakerAlliance.
You have to get up in front of,sometimes, groups of very
(20:00):
important people, both small andlarge, and be concise and
deliver an engaging, you know,sort of message, and so learning
to do that at 30 was super,super helpful, not to mention
just being learning how tooperate and lead and manage a
scorecard and those sorts ofthings.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
What were some like interesting things learned?
I've never been in a nonprofitsetting like that.
What were some interestingthings that you learned about
just that space in general thatwas interesting for you.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I think running a nonprofit is harder than running
a business, and I've actuallytalked to business guys about
this that have tried to get intothe nonprofit space.
I mean, and there's really notthat much difference other than
it's a tax code difference.
You still have to have money inthe bank somehow, right.
You have to pay your team, youhave to have a vision, you have
to.
Whatever it is you're selling,you know whether it's donors or
(20:50):
some nonprofits.
It is a fee for service.
So there's a mixture of sort ofrevenue sources, like you have
to have a business plan right,more or less, even if it's a
nonprofit.
And so sometimes I think youknow in business you have a
product or a service, a widgetor a benefit.
You know your case insurance,you guys are experts and you've
(21:12):
owned that.
And sometimes when you're in anonprofit, whether it's Edge or
pick another, you know WheelerMission you're really trying to
influence.
You have to lead and influencepeople to give up their spare
time right to choose tovolunteer, to potentially get
warmed up to where they mightcontribute financially to your
organization, and so it's veryintense relationally and so
(21:34):
learning to juggle and manage alot of relationships you know
it's hard to do that well atscale and to still maintain that
level of like personalizationwhich I really put a premium on.
I think scaling a startupnonprofit is just really
difficult.
Right, because there's timeswhere it almost felt more
manageable when it was smallerand then as we were gaining some
(21:55):
velocity without more resources.
Right, not that you just throwpeople at problems, but it
became a lot.
Right, not that you just throwpeople at problems, but it
became a lot.
Right when you're like man,it's only a five or six person
org with maybe a million bucksin revenue, but you're thinking
about it all the time and it canbe hard to find ways to sort of
disconnect and recharge.
Because I felt like a lot oftimes a lot would have to run
through me because I was theglue with board or with donors
(22:17):
or with mentors and sometimesyou try to not be the cog.
I believe in empoweredleadership and getting out of
the way, but at the end of theday, people want to talk to you,
right?
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I can relate to that on scaling a small
business, of when most of thethroughput runs through you or
in some way connected to you, ofhow do you scale and empower
others, and certainly thejourney that we've been on over
the last several years ofgrowing our business and that
sort of thing.
Well, I want to spend some timedigging into your current role
(22:51):
with the Boilermaker Alliance.
Tell us a little bit about howthe opportunity initially like
came along for you and like kindof what you also saw with this
opportunity in like Wild West,where all the cowboys live, is
now NIL.
Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, again, a bit kind of how my career has gone
for somebody that's pretty goaloriented.
I've learned, you know, youkind of can only really focus on
maybe three years at a time andyou've got to take what the
wind gives you and certainopportunities come along.
And so you know, after Edge wedidn't talk about it but I went
to Prolific, which was aconsulting firm, as a chief
(23:27):
revenue officer.
You know had some pretty goodscale to it and that was a great
four years that I was there.
But you know, I got contactedin the fall of 23, ben, by a
executive recruiter who I'veknown for a while and is a
friend, and he'd been hired bythe board of the Boilermaker
Alliance to find their CEO.
And so obviously I'd heardabout and paid attention to NIL
(23:49):
by no means was I an expert, butwhen I thought about just the
opportunity to get in more orless on the ground floor of NIL
it's been around for three yearsessentially now, and so this
was a little over a year ago toget in, to learn the space it's
(24:09):
not going away but it isevolving pretty rapidly and to
do it at a Big Ten school, atPurdue, where obviously I'm not
a grad but think the world of it, especially after the decade of
Mitch Daniels' leadership there.
Purdue's on a tear and has agreat reputation globally, and
so to be able to work alongsidean institution like Purdue still
do it from Indy, where we'repretty rooted, and I get up
there a couple of times a weekand just to learn and to meet.
(24:32):
I mean I work with so manydifferent stakeholders from not
just our athletic department atPurdue but head coaches and
their staffs.
Obviously we work with studentathletes, work with the board of
trustees.
I've got my own board at theAlliance and so, for those that
don't know, I run BoilermakerAlliance, which is the
collective that sits outside ofPurdue University.
(24:53):
Legally we have to, but we arethe exclusive collective of
Purdue University Athletics, soI view it as really we're an
extension of the team.
Again, there has to be sunlightbetween the collective and the
university legally, but anystudent athlete that receives
NIL money at Purdue, they're oncontract with us and so we
probably work with a hundredstudent athletes from seven or
(25:16):
eight different sports.
Obviously we work a lot withfootball and men's basketball,
given that those are the tworevenue generating sports that
sort of carry all the otherprograms.
But the entire women'svolleyball team's on contract
with us work with some women'sbasketball, some baseball,
tennis, golf.
It's been a great experience.
Obviously, I joined four monthsbefore Purdue went to the Final
(25:38):
Four in Phoenix last April,which was a great experience,
and then we had a pretty roughfootball season.
So I got to experience bothextremes of the good and sort of
the tougher times and got a newfootball coach a month or two
ago.
So rebuilding there.
But you know, at the end of theday the collective is out
working with individual donorsas well as companies in some
(25:59):
cases that sort of see the valuethat our student athletes at
Purdue bring to the university,and so any student athlete that
is on contract with us they're1099 employees at the collective
they're required.
Their obligations and theircontract stipulate that they
have to serve at nonprofitscertain amount of times a month
and then leverage theirplatforms, their social media,
(26:21):
to promote those charities inreturn.
And so we manage all thatthrough a software and
documentation process so thatwe're doing everything above
board and we take that veryseriously, so that it's not just
pay to play, as some peoplemight call it, at other schools
where they're just paying kidsand they don't have to do
anything for it.
We really believe that whilewe're trying to build champions
(26:43):
on the field or on the court, wealso want these formative years
to be champions in theircommunity and really finding
things that they're passionateabout, whether it's the Boys and
Girls Club or reading atelementary schools, or showing
up at a varsity blood bank driveand again leveraging sort of
their brand, their likeness, tobring benefit to the charities
and causes they care about.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So, dave, we're obviously in Indianapolis, home
of the NCAA.
So then, this topic floatingaround here, probably longer, or
at least more more loudly, giveour listeners just a little bit
of background on, like wasthere a law?
Was it legislation?
What actually enacted this thatwe'll today call NIL, which of
(27:27):
course stands for name, imageand likeness?
When did it roughly start?
When did it heat up?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, so on July 1st of 2021.
Yeah, so what's that about?
Three and a half years ago now,there'd been several court
cases and culminating in onethat really allowed, as of July
1st 2021, student athletes tofinancially profit off of their
own name, image and likeness,their personal brand, right?
(27:53):
And you could go back to a lotof people recall Ed O'Bannon,
who was a basketball player atUCLA.
A lot of this started with youthink about video games or
jersey sales.
Schools were making a lot ofmoney off of jersey sales and
none of that money obviouslywould flow to the student
athletes, right?
Or video games, ea Sports,those types of things where
(28:15):
their likenesses are being used,but they don't see any of that
and probably the old schoolthought is well, they get a
scholarship, be enough, right?
They're amateurs.
And I think the reality is thatcollege athletics has become an
economic machine.
You see that, with the risingsalaries of football coaches,
basketball coaches, supportstaff, administrators, I mean,
(28:35):
well, we've got college footballcoaches making 13, 12 million a
year.
It's become big business, bigmoney.
And does that mean that studentathletes should get paid that
same amount?
Maybe not, but I think themsharing in a slice of that pie,
you could argue makes sense.
And so a couple of thingsconverged that probably weren't
originally designed to converge,and that is NIL, from three and
(28:58):
a half years ago to thetransfer portal right, which,
when I took this role a littleover a year ago, the rule was
still that you could transferonce as an undergrad and once as
a grad student.
And then, a few months into metaking the job this was probably
spring of 24, there was aninjunction, another court case,
where basically just stayed thefact that, hey, student athletes
(29:20):
can now transfer unlimited, asmuch as they want.
So now it's almost like becomeanytime.
There's an open portal windowwhich those are designated times
throughout the year, dependingon the sport.
It becomes this yeah, in somecases it feels like you hear
about, read about bidding wars,right, where so-and-so is
throwing their name in theportal, and just because you
know the portal doesn't meanyou're going to switch schools.
(29:40):
Sometimes people enter theportal and end up staying at
their school, right, but schoolsthen are, you know, once
they're in the portal, you'relegally allowed to contact that
student athlete.
And again, when I started, youcouldn't be specific about what
you could pay them.
In NIL you could kind of usegeneralities and say, hey, we
have someone over here that isin a similar position as you and
(30:01):
here's what their package lookslike.
We see you in a similar package.
Now you can be very direct andspecific.
So it's like, hey, if you comehere, we're going to put you on
full ride.
We can pay you X amount ofdollars a month in NIL.
And it's just evolved veryquickly just in the last year.
And then, as we look forward tothis summer, july 1st, revenue
sharing is set to begin, whereand this is as a result of the
(30:22):
House versus the NCAA settlementagain, which was not in motion
until May of 24.
There was preliminary approvalgranted in October of 24.
And then April 7th is sort ofthe big date coming up that the
judge will either approve thesettlement or maybe not.
But the Power Four conferencesare certainly planning on
revenue sharing to start July1st, which means schools can now
(30:45):
start directly compensatingstudent-athletes which, again,
to date it's all gone throughcollectives.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
So how will that change?
Will Purdue adjust to have somemoney pay athletes to the
collective and some directlyfrom the university?
Based upon this, yeah, we'reworking through that right now.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I know every other school, especially at the Power
4 conference level and thesettlement.
Without getting into too muchlegalities, they're really
trying to rein in the donorpiece of collectives, the
charitable contributions,because that can get a little
bit all over the place, but theydo.
It will be permissible, is ourunderstanding, to keep really a
(31:23):
for-profit collective that'sfocused on true endorsements and
NIL deals.
And so we're working throughthat right now what that could
look like at Purdue, whetherthat comes in-house, whether
that's still a third-partycollective that's again just
focused on working with brandsthat would want an Eli Lillian
company or a Roarman Just usinga couple of local examples that
(31:45):
may want to partner with Purduestudent athletes, a Braden Smith
, a women's volleyball player,something along those lines.
So it's a pretty dynamic timeand while that's in what five
months we're actively kind ofworking on plans towards that
end.
We're actively kind of workingon plans towards that end.
But we got to obviously getthrough April 7th, which is this
big sort of date on the judge'scalendar, to see if this
(32:05):
settlement does in fact getapproved.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
So what role, if any, does the NCAA still play?
Because everything you've said,it sounds like all the rules
are being promulgated via courtcases.
It's kind of like the outcomeof the court case then kind of
tells you what you can't do andthen you kind of then figure OK,
well, then everything else iswhat you can do.
Does the NCAA play a role inthis today?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, that's a great question and they do.
And I think this House v NCAAsettlement I know the NCAA
obviously hopes that it doessettle so they don't have to go
to court will help to probablyrein some things in to where the
NCAA is obviously adapting andtheir goal is to.
Obviously, I mean they stilladminister a lot of college
(32:48):
championships.
They don't obviously do collegefootball right, I think that
was 10 years or so ago thatcollege football playoff started
, but men's basketball isobviously a huge revenue driver
for the NCAA the March Madnesstournament, but then they do all
you know a bunch of otherchampionships that don't often
get a ton of airtime and so theystill wield a lot of influence.
But it's also, I know, beenprobably a challenging few years
.
Right, you've got all theseindividual states have their own
(33:12):
NIL statutes or laws.
Now we don't have one inIndiana and I don't claim to
know why that is.
Maybe it is because the NCAA isin our backyard, but you know,
you've got 50 states and theyprobably, if they do, have an
NIL law.
They're all a little bitdifferent.
So that's why you hear aboutthe NCAA lobbying Congress to
say we need to get someuniformity here, right, as we
(33:32):
move into the future.
But for me it's been funbecause I'm probably not
somebody that would thrive justin a very normal boring nine to
five.
So to kind of be on the leadingedge and cutting edge and
learning and having to adapt.
Yeah, it can be stressful attimes but it's been pretty
rewarding and fulfilling,especially to do at a place like
Purdue.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
It kind of just makes me think of, like the Hamilton
play, where he talks about justbeing in the room where it
happens, you know.
Yeah, you mentioned Purdue's.
You said it was our strategy orour belief of Purdue is that,
you know, obviously we werebelievers in NIL, or if it's
just a pay to play or if there'sa different strategy, is there
(34:25):
a lot of different things thatuniversities are pursuing at
this point?
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yeah, I would say it definitely varies institution to
institution, you know, I thinkobviously I can only speak on
behalf of the collective, Ican't speak on behalf of the
athletic department.
But you know Purdue has, Ithink, 600,000 living alumni and
I've learned a lot about justsort of the makeup.
Obviously a lot of people talkabout Purdue being a STEM school
(34:51):
.
Pumps out, I think we have10,000 engineering majors of the
50,000 undergrads, big agbackground presidents.
We obviously put people on themoon like Neil Armstrong
astronauts, and so that lendsitself to be in a more just,
conservative sort of alumni baseand so sometimes they're one of
the more just, humble, educated, passionate sports fan bases
(35:16):
that I've interacted with.
I mean we had a rough 1-11football season and Ross-Ade
Stadium was full almost everygame.
I think it holds 62,000.
Last game against Penn State,last home game of the season,
they had 58,000 people there.
I mean it's a pretty remarkableloyalty in terms of the fan
base.
Obviously, men's basketball,women's volleyball was in the
(35:37):
Sweet 16.
We've got some tremendousprograms right now at Purdue and
so they care, they're loyal.
But it's not just wins andlosses at a place like Purdue,
some schools it probably is justthat I think when you go to
Purdue you're choosing hard alittle bit right West Lafayette
is not the South and it's notalways the easiest place to get
(35:57):
to if you're not from around theMidwest.
You're going to be pushedacademically right.
It's a rigorous academicinstitution as a state school.
But you're going to also leavewith a elite education and a
great network of alumni that'llsupport you and so, yeah, I mean
I think we are.
Purdue was probably a littlelate to the game in NIL because
(36:18):
they weren't you know I won'tname other schools, they weren't
paying folks previously underthe table.
I think some schools probablyjust brought their operation
from under the table to abovethe table, so they had
infrastructure already in placebut we've had to catch up a bit.
But I think Purdue alums can bevery proud that we've done it
the right way.
You know we've done it withhigh character, integrity,
(36:40):
excellence and I've really triedto mirror what Purdue is all
about in terms of their corevalues.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
That sounds a lot like that thread that you even
talked about with edge mentoring, that it's whole person care,
it's not just about this or that.
So it's not just about theathletics, you care about them
involved with community, howthey handle themselves as people
.
As a student, that's prettycool.
This is something I've thoughtabout a lot lately.
(37:06):
How does this change thelandscape of college athletics?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Obviously I'm not in thoserooms, but something that we've
worked hard, we've partnered upwith.
There's a former studentathlete at Purdue, young guy,
he's getting his master's inaccounting.
He'd been in the locker roomsright where guys were getting
NIL payments and just reallydeveloped a passion for how do
we equip these young men andwomen with financial acumen,
(37:34):
right?
$50,000 or less, sometimes more, from the time of 18 to 22.
Or now it feels like you readabout 25-year-old college
student athletes because, hey,if you can stay, if you can get
a fifth or sixth year and make alittle bit more money and you
know you're.
I mean, the reality is 99% ofthese student athletes won't
play at the next level, right.
(37:55):
But if you can make a handsomesix figures or in some cases
seven figures that early in yourlife, right.
I mean, just let the power ofcompound interest do its thing
and don't touch a lot of it,right.
And so we've partnered withthis young man who came to us
and also came to the athleticdepartment and he had been
working with a couple professorsin the Daniel School of
Business at Purdue and they'vecreated like a nine class course
(38:18):
that they've been kind ofrolling out and meeting with the
various varsity teams at Purdue, everything from the basics of
personal finance, saving,investing, accounting, taxes,
all those sorts of things.
And we feel like again, that'sin line with who Purdue is as an
institution and could be a realarrow in the quiver as this
(38:39):
gets rolled out for recruitingright and still confidence with
parents that are thinking abouttheir son or daughter coming to
Purdue.
And you know, I think at theend of the day, relationships,
culture, chemistry, leadership,those things still matter right.
And there's kids, that youngpeople that I think hunger for
that.
They're not just about wherecan I go, get paid the most or
(39:00):
secure the bag right, as youngpeople say.
And so I think you know,knowing that Purdue is going to
kind of look for people that fit, that are program guys and
girls that fit sort of thePurdue brand it's not going to
be for everyone.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Doing that over the course of four years.
How does this change thecoach's dynamic and what
decisions do they have to make?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Well, take, for example, our new football coach
at Purdue, barry Odom, got heremiddle of December, right, so
he's not even two months in onthe job.
There was a December transferportal for football.
We added 40 guys okay, 29 fromthe transfer portal meaning they
were at other colleges 11 highschool guys okay.
And you know I can speakobviously pretty candidly on our
(39:44):
men's basketball program.
Matt Painter is obviously oneof the best college basketball
coaches there is currently andhe didn't even touch the
transfer portal this past men'sbasketball portal, which is kind
of unheard of in today'sculture, and so he is still
running, and I believe BarryOdom, our football coach, will
do the same.
A development oriented programright where they're recruiting
(40:07):
high school guys, becomes atwo-time national player of the
year.
Now is the number nine pick inthe NBA and having a great
rookie season.
I mean, that's all Matt Painterand his staff right there.
(40:28):
And so you know football is alittle bit different because you
have 85 scholarship guyscompared to 13 for men's
basketball.
So the nature, just the volumeof guys on the roster, it's
naturally going to be moretransactional right, where I
don't care if you're Ohio Statewho just won the national
championship or Purdue.
That was one in 11, we'reprobably both having to deal
(40:50):
with the portal, right, forvarious reasons.
Guys at Ohio State that want toplay more and I like to have a
solid field.
Guys at Purdue because we had acoaching change or because we
had a rough season.
I want to go elsewhere and Ithink they have a better chance
of winning or playing and so,yeah, football is probably a
little harder to do.
That's my perspective justbecause you have so many guys.
So to keep all 85 sort of in adevelopment oriented, it's just
(41:14):
harder, right, because there's alot more cooks in the kitchen
versus.
You can be a little bit morecontained with 13 guys and some
walk-ons on your basketballprogram.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, it's been interesting.
On football broadcast I feellike 20% of the time they're
saying who was in the portal andwhere they were last year.
It's like 20% of the broadcast.
Well, dave, thanks for comingon today and having a
conversation and teaching ussome of the lessons you've
learned along the way andtalking through NIL.
(41:46):
It's also a great pleasure frommy perspective, knowing you for
so long and just seeing youcontinue to just excel in
everything that you do.
So we end our show with twoquestions that we have for every
guest that I want to ask you.
So the first one being is letme get to my note here what is a
risk you have taken that haschanged your life?
Speaker 3 (42:09):
I'll go back to that decision at 29 to resign from
Salesforce and go all in on edge.
Mentoring Felt a lot riskierthan what I just did a little
over a year ago jumping into NIL.
I felt a lot riskier than what Ijust did a little over a year
ago jumping into NIL just at theseason of life, and it was a
pay cut, it was a benefit cut,it was a startup nonprofit and
it was risky, like I said, onpaper, but just felt like it was
(42:32):
almost like a calling for a lotof reasons that I felt I that
got affirmed in so many waysover the six years that I was
with Edge and again learned somany lessons, got humbled.
But I think I wouldn't againhave some of these leadership
opportunities both in my day jobnow at Boilermaker Alliance and
in the community, had it notbeen for sort of taking that
(42:55):
leap of faith and going all inon edge.
You know I could have stayed acog at Salesforce or a great
brand like that, but that reallyforced me to have to really
become an entrepreneur right andnot just kind of hide behind
whatever the brand of thecompanies I worked for, the
pedigree of the schools you wentto and like okay, what can you
actually do?
(43:15):
Right and I think that's agreat lesson in entrepreneurship
right, like you have to driveoutcomes daily.
It feels like so, versus havingother people sort of do it for
you.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
So yeah, and we haven't really talked about this
much, but you mentioned ittoday.
It seemed like you got a lot ofexternal like not challenge,
that's probably not the rightword but like well, what did you
do or why did you do that?
So, probably finding thataffirmation was in the quiet
places, I would imagine.
So, yeah, probably finding thataffirmation was in the quiet
places, I would imagine.
Yeah, exactly.
(43:45):
The second question is what'sunfinished for you that you have
the resolve to complete in thenear or not?
Speaker 3 (43:52):
so near future?
Yeah, and I don't even know.
As I was thinking about this, Idon't know if there's a my mind
didn't necessarily go to aprofessional sort of thing, it
was more like me personally, youknow, turned 40 a little over a
month ago, and so thatobviously causes some reflection
of just how's life going.
And I've got four young kids,the oldest of which is eight,
and so, you know, really workingon myself, and not just
(44:15):
physical things or professionalthings, but as a husband, as a
father, even my own internallandscape, right, as guys we
don't talk a lot about ourfeelings or emotions often, but
making sure I'm healthy, right,because there's a lot pulling at
me right now in this season,and I know I've got a pretty
narrow window where my kidsactually want to hang around me.
(44:36):
I don't think it's 18 years,your kids are older, it's
probably like 10 years and thenthey want to hang with their own
friends, right I'm sorryAlready seeing that with my son
who's almost nine, but you know,so I think, while I'm kind of
living in the tension of beingthe best professional and best
community leader and those sortsof things, places where it's
easy to get a lot of affirmationlike working on myself so that
(44:57):
I show up as a, you know, just ahealthy husband, father, friend
and kind of live at peacewithin myself, as there are a
lot of just like pressures andthings pulling at you right now
and making sure I don't gettripped up by any of the
landmines that you see folks inmidlife sometimes deal with.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Yeah, no, I love that .
It's part of the role, but alsofun to go to some of those
basketball games or whatever.
I love seeing you with yourchildren taking them chances.
You get to enjoy the experiencewith you and I think that is
incredible.
But, dave, thanks for joiningus today.
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (45:32):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Guys, Love that you're doingthis.
This was fun.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Thanks for tuning in to Risk and Resolve.
See you next time.
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