February 18, 2023 • 35 mins
We visit Qtopia, Australia's first Queer museum - just in time for World Pride '23! We chat with CEO Greg Fisher about the activism, determination, and compassion that has shaped the vibrant and resilient Queer community over the years.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Greg (00:00):
It's a very stark place.
If you go there, you think, haveI come all this way to look at a
bed?
And the answer is, yes, youhave.
And guess what?
That's all they looked at.
Kate (00:41):
I'm so excited for this episode.
It's not every day that we visita brand new museum, but that's
exactly what we're doing today.
Qtopia Queer Museum in Sydney isso new that it was set to open
its doors the very next dayafter my visit.
The museum features twoexhibits, both in Darlinghurst.
One is at the bandstand in GreenPark opposite St.
(01:04):
Vincent's Hospital, and theother is a recreation of Ward 17
South, which was originally inSt.
Vincent's Hospital, but therecreation is down the road at
the National Art School.
In this episode, we have aconversation with Greg Fisher,
CEO of the museum, and delveinto the reasons why Sydney's
response to AIDS was consideredto be among the most effective
(01:26):
in the world.
We also discuss the resilienceand support of the Queer
community during thischallenging time and reminisce
on the old Campy days of KingsCross.
Please note that this episodedoes touch on sensitive topics
such as HIV and AIDS, as well asanti-gay sentiment and that this
may be triggering for somelisteners.
(01:49):
I'm at the Qtopia Museum todaywith Greg Fisher.
Greg, how are you today??
Greg (01:53):
I'm very well, thanks.
How are you?
Kate (01:54):
Good, thank you.
And Greg, whose country are weon
Greg (01:56):
Well, today we meet on the land of the Gadigal people of
the Eora nation.
And I'd like to pay my respectsto the Elders past and present
and those who are emerging.
Kate (02:06):
Tell me about Qtopia.
I believe this has been a longtime coming.
Greg (02:10):
Well, we've been working on this iteration of a Queer
museum for the last two years.
The idea of having a Queermuseum is not new.
In fact I looked at it over 20years ago and I know that many
other people have looked at itvarious times between then and
now.
So yeah, it has been a long timein the making.
Kate (02:28):
So why now?
What's happened over the last 20years between then and launching
it now?
Greg (02:33):
Well, I, I had the idea to do it 20 odd years ago, but
didn't do it.
I did other things and thisparticular iteration was not my
idea.
I was brought in to help make ithappen.
What has happened between thenand now has been a maturing of,
of the Queer community.
I think that there's been amaturing of the wider community
as well.
There's been laws passed interms of equality, particularly
(02:54):
marriage equality is somethingthat we all know about.
There's been lesser known lawspassed in terms of
discrimination orantidiscrimination in the
workplace.
There's been laws passed, youknow, simple things like
superannuation between partnersand all sorts of things like
that.
Which are actually, and I don'tlike to use normalized, but it
has, what it does do is, iscreate a level playing field, I
(03:15):
guess for all people toparticipate.
The idea now of doing a Queermuseum is to get the stories of
the past told so that people whoare today dealing with their
identity whether it be sexual orgender, have a safe place to
come to, to learn from the pastand understand, and also a place
(03:37):
where they can bring loved ones,family, friends, school mates,
corporate mates, whatever, toget them to understand and
accept and participate.
Kate (03:48):
And who's involved in the museum and the curation of these
exhibits?
Greg (03:52):
In terms of who is involved, we have a board of
management and we have twopatrons, Michael Kirby and Ita
Buttrose.
Two phenomenal Australians whohave done so much for the Queer
community in particular withrespect to AIDS over decades.
Kate (04:06):
The glamorous Ita Buttrose is a prominent media executive
and current chair of the ABC.
In the early eighties she wasthe Editor-in-Chief of the Daily
and Sunday Telegraph newspaperswhen AIDS arrived in Australia.
She was appointed chairperson ofthe National Advisory Committee
on AIDS in 1984 to lead thenational HIV AIDS public health
(04:28):
education campaign.
One of her noteworthycontributions was promoting
transparent messaging about thedisease, such as dispelling the
misconception that donatingblood could lead to contracting
AIDS.
The Honorable Michael Kirby, awell-known human rights
advocate, and former justice ofthe high court of Australia, has
(04:49):
been openly gay since 1984.
He's utilized his platform tochampion gay rights and mobilize
the gay community towardscollective action.
After retiring from the highcourt in 2009, he assumed the
position of Patron at the KirbyInstitute, a Global Health
Research Institute based in U NS W.
(05:09):
the Institute focuses oneradicating infectious diseases,
worldwide.
Greg (05:14):
And then in terms of putting together the two
inaugural exhibitions we've gotDr.
Liz Bradshaw doing therecreation of Ward 17 South from
St.
Vincent's Hospital.
And that's being done atBuilding 11 at the National Arts
School.
And we also have a exhibition atthe Bandstand, and that's being
undertaken by curator JackieNorth.
Kate (05:35):
What's the relevance of the bandstand as a location?
Greg (05:39):
Okay.
Two things.
Number one, we took thebandstand because we wanted to
get going...
and the Bandstand was a vacantsite, and the council, Sydney
city council, who had beenincredibly supportive, offered
it to us and we said, yes,please.
Because if you don't start, youdon't start.
And so we made the decision thatas, as modest as that building
is uh, to start a lot of museumsthat are big today started
(06:02):
small.
And we will continue to advocateand agitate for the building we
want, which is of course the oldDarlinghurst Police Station.
Why is the bandstand actually ofgreat relevance?
It's because it sitsgeographically fantastically in
the midst of the history of theQueer community.
And geographically, if you looknorth, you look towards like Les
(06:22):
Girls, Kings Cross, and theUnderground- at one point
illegal gay nightclub, fromwhich people were arrested and
then bashed at the OldDarlinghurst police station by
the police.
If you look east, you're lookingat the St.
Vincent's Hospital, which ofcourse had Ward 17 South, and
its history with respect to HIVand AIDS.
If you're looking south, you'relooking towards Oxford Street
(06:44):
and all the excitement and allthe campness inside and all the
demonstrations and thecelebrations over time.
And then of course, if you lookwest, you're looking straight
across the road to the wall ofthe National Arts School.
Known as The Wall, which for along period of time was a pickup
place for gay men after thedifferent clubs had closed, and
then it became a beat and allsorts of things.
(07:05):
So it's got a real historyattached to it as well.
Kate (07:09):
So it's quite serendipitous that you are able
to grab that place for one ofthe exhibits.
Greg (07:13):
It, it truly is it, and you're right.
And we did grab it.
And also it sits beautifullynext to the National Arts School
opposite the Sydney JewishMuseum, and in and amongst
everything that I guess Qtopia,Sydney is there to represent.
Kate (07:29):
So the other exhibit is a recreation of Ward 17 at the
National Art School.
Yes.
Can you tell me a little bitabout Ward 17 and more broadly
speaking AIDS in Sydney and howthat was managed?
Greg (07:42):
Of course.
So, I mean, it's a very bigquestion.
HIV AIDS was of course firstfound or discovered in the early
eighties.
And at that time Sydney had avery large gay community and a
very proud gay community.
When the first diagnosis waswhich was 40 years ago next year
Professor David Cooper wasactually over in the States and
(08:04):
he is an immunologist and herealized that, wow, this is
actually gonna be a very bigthing.
So he came back to Australia, towork with St.
Vincent's Hospital and the KirbyInstitute-it was a different
name back then- to work out howto respond.
And it became known as theSydney response and the work
that was undertaken by thedoctors there to support people
(08:28):
who went very quickly then fromHIV to AIDS and to do all the
research and so on, wasphenomenal.
They also apart from treating,undertook all of these tests, so
is it to create over timevaccines or effectively vaccines
or treatments so that peopletoday who have HIV will not
progress to AIDS and will liveeffectively a normal life.
(08:50):
And those who do not have HIV donot need to get it.
There's effectively a block nowavailable.
So so over the time, the Sydneyresponse was the medical
fraternity, the legalfraternity, the patients, the
church and the community, andthe wider community responding
in a way that saw medicaladvancement and social care
(09:13):
growing side by side.
Kate (09:15):
This became a model known as peer-based service delivery.
In a personal essay titled"Through My Eyes", Bill
Patterson, a nurse from Ward 17South, recounts how gay men and
lesbians collaborated to providehealthcare services to their
peers, including nursing, socialwork, physiotherapy, counseling,
(09:35):
and other forms of support.
This approach was instrumentalin unifying the Queer community
and advocating for improvedhealthcare policies and
treatment.
Greg (09:44):
And it needed to because the discrimination at the time
against gay people was alreadysignificant.
And the advent of a killerdisease from gay people
justified the discrimination.
And so it called upon people ofgreat note, particularly Ita
Buttrose, who headed up variouscampaigns and, and others to
come on board and to challengethe discrimination and to help
(10:08):
foster understanding andgoodwill and care for people,
who were either doing it toughor dying.
Kate (10:14):
Just take for example, a media frenzy that erupted in
1984, After four infants inQueensland were discovered to
have contracted HIV through ablood donation from a HIV
positive man, unbeknownst to thedonor.
During this period, the mediaand various commentators spread
panic and misinformation, makingit essential to launch
(10:36):
responsible public healthcampaigns that provided clear
science-based facts.
These campaigns were critical inreducing stigma and promoting
better health outcomes.
Greg (10:47):
And Ward 17 South was effectively grabbed by the nuns,
the Sisters of Charity, who saidthere has to be a ward
specifically for these men.
And they also said, as did thedoctors, that nobody will die
alone.
And they stuck by that.
And you can imagine that therewas a lot of shame for people
(11:09):
who found out that they hadAIDS.
They were told when they camein, tell one person only, don't
tell too many people, theirfamilies didn't want to come.
They're either ashamed or tooscared.
And so, there was thatabandonment and fear surrounding
people who had HIV andprogressed uh, to AIDS.
They were sick people, but thecommunity responded with
(11:31):
humanity and celebration, andthere was this incredible
feeling back then.
I might, and I am old enough toremember that if we are going to
die, we'll die dancing.
And so Mardi Gras in fact, gotbigger during that period, and
this was also part of the Sydneyresponse.
Whereas other places around theworld, people were actually
going underground and going, ohmy goodness, oh my goodness.
(11:52):
In Australia, particularly inSydney, we were saying, well,
no, we're not going to do that.
We're gonna live until we die.
And the rest of the communitysaid, we'll come.
And so people who were very sickin wheelchairs with, with their
drips and everything were takenup to the Albury Hotel where
there were people dancing and soon.
Or, or Sydney, gay lesbian choiror opera singer or a drag queen
(12:13):
will come to Ward 17 South andperform and, and lighten
people's lives up.
And then we have some beautifulimages around that.
Some beautiful imagery, forexample, around Easter where,
you know, some drag queens camedressed as Easter bunnies and
so, and, and brought that jovialspirit into the ward.
So it was a place of sadness,horror, fear, but deep humanity.
Kate (12:34):
That seems very characteristic of the Queer
community and their unbridledjoy and celebration and, and
just love that they give anyoneand everyone.
Greg (12:44):
I think that's true.
And I think that the other thingthat it, it tells about the
Queer community is courage anddetermination.
Determination not to be putdown.
Determination to survive.
Determination to flourish, hopefor a better future, hope for
greater inclusivity, and awillingness to work hard for it,
(13:04):
and not to be bitter andtwisted, but definitely forceful
and, and clear in what it isthat we're always seeking to
achieve.
Kate (13:12):
What's your favorite part of the museum?
Greg (13:15):
That's a very good question.
I mean, we have two verydifferent parts of our
exhibition.
One is Ward 17 South, which hasa level of solemnity and
maturity, and on the other sidewe have the Bandstand, which is
really looking at celebratingwho fought for our rights, the
history and activism of MardiGras since 1978.
(13:35):
The old glamor and excitement ofOxford Street.
We have an ode to the old SydneyQueer nightlife.
We have a little disco there,with videos and so on historical
photos, showcasing art, fetish,rudeness, culture, all sorts of
things.
So, huge differences you know,in, in what it is that we have.
But in terms, if I look at atthe end of the day, people go to
a museum because they want to beenlightened and informed.
(13:58):
And yes, there's certainly a lotof enlightenment and information
surrounding what we have at theBandstand, but I think people
live in that environment or havelived in that environment.
It has been a long time since wehad AIDS.
And I think that a lot of peopleeither have forgotten about it
or don't think it belongs tothem anymore too, too too young
to even know about it.
So it was important to revisitit and it was important to
(14:22):
understand what grew from it,such as vaccines for COVID and
so on.
And to understand what thesacrifices actually were.
So to answer your question myfavorite is definitely Ward 17
South.
And within it we have capturedabout 30 or 40 hours of video
from a range of people who werethere at the time, some of whom
(14:43):
are still with us, survivors ofAIDS, carers, doctors, nurses
the Sisters of Charity,community members, politicians.
And that has been put into abeautiful package of video that
is up inside the ward 17 South.
It's a very stark place.
It's really, if you go there,you think, have I come all this
(15:03):
way to look at a bed?
And the answer is, yes, youhave.
And guess what?
That's all they looked at.
And therefore, what surroundsthe bed is information on the
wall, timelines.
What, who was actually involvedin the response and how did it
work?
And the video presentation,which brings to life that whole
era, and brings to life thestarkness of that bed.
Kate (15:26):
Is there a plan to have that video available in another
place or just in the museum atthis stage?
Greg (15:31):
Gosh, you ask good questions.
The answer is I'm pushing veryhard to tour that Uh, exhibition
because it's important,particularly when you think that
next year's the 40th anniversaryof the first diagnosis.
It is, it's a really importantone.
It goes right to the heart ofdiscrimination and right to the
heart of caring and empathy andunderstanding and love and
(15:52):
everything.
And I do believe it's somethingreally worthy of touring.
I don't think it's gonna be ahard one to tour because,
there's not that much in it.
And I think it's something thatI would like to see go around to
the regional areas and, andbeyond.
It is an Australian story.
It's not just a Sydney centricstory.
And there's been a lot ofexhibitions over the years about
AIDS, And I'm saying this one'sthe best.
Kate (16:13):
You're not biased at all though.
I am.
I am biased.
Greg (16:17):
I'm definitely biased, but I also you know, I, I don't say
that everything we've done isperfect and, and we are
certainly a long way, a long wayfrom being able to say we've got
it all.
And one thing about us is we donot believe that we are the
owners of knowledge or theowners of history.
We are the funnel and we wantpeople from everywhere,
(16:37):
historians and general publicwho knows stories to bring them
here so that the museum shouldevolve over time.
And I'd like to see it evolveand grow into an even wider
greater story.
So as we memorialize what hashappened, we do so with the
utmost and the highest level ofknowledge.
Kate (16:56):
So let's talk about that Queer history of Sydney.
You said the bandstand featuresa bit of a history of the Mardi
Gras and the 78ers, could youtell us a little bit about that?
Greg (17:05):
Well, how it's changed over time has really been from
underground and secret to openand celebratory, and it's always
been celebratory but it's gonefrom being, you know, illegal
and underground to being legaland above ground.
That's a broad sense what'shappened over time.
What I think has also happenedbeing 57 years of age, which
might, might as well say I'm ahundred is, I think in a sense
that I might be old in sayingthis, that we've lost a little
(17:28):
bit of the real campness that Iremember at The Albury, where on
one side, you know, the, on theSunday afternoon would be,
people on the piano and everyonearound it singing.
And on the other side would bemen with their shirts off
dancing on the bar.
And and it was pumping and itwas, you know, really hot and
heavy and it was camp and it wasloud and it was flirtatious and
all that.
And I love that so much.
And that really arose out of thefabulous things from the Cross,
(17:50):
which was like Les Girls and TheRex and other places there.
Nowadays, you know, you havedrag shows and so on, but it is
not as high camp and the, andthe clientele is not as high
camp, in my opinion, is what itwas.
Having said that there'sdifferent forms of, of fun.
Back then people were not as, afierce and fabulous body-wise,
body image-wise as they are now.
(18:12):
So it's sort of gone from, campand fun to I guess really, you
know, body image and Gorgeous.
Kate (18:18):
why is it important that we have a Queer museum and why
should people come and visit it?
Greg (18:23):
The reason for the need to have a Queer museum at the end
of the day goes to identity.
Identity and inclusivity arewords too readily banded about.
There would not be a corporatesocial responsibility charter
that does not have the wordsinclusivity and identity, yet
very few people know what ittruly means.
(18:45):
People do not know the painassociated sometimes with
dealing with one's identity,with dealing with it for
themselves and with explainingit to others and to finding
their place in life.
we see football clubs that, someof which object to having a
little rainbow flag on theirjersey.
I don't blame them for that.
I say that was too early.
(19:06):
I think that what is moreimportant than worrying about
that is having people educated,having the ability for
footballers to come in and tolearn when what we talking about
gay people.
You've got Ian Roberts, who wasa footballer himself on our
board.
You know, at the end of the day,the footballers at the time
didn't give us stuff if he wasgay or not.
He was the best footballer onthe field.
And you know, it, it, it needsto get back to a point where, or
(19:28):
to a point where people justunderstand that people are
people, whether they're gay,straight, trans, whatever
intersex, bisexual or an ally.
That people are simply peopleand that people shouldn't fear
difference.
And so the reason for having aQueer museum is to say to the
world, well, this is Us.
(19:50):
This is our history.
This is our contribution to thewider community.
This is where we fit in.
We're not a a sideshow.
We're part of the fabric of thecommunity, and this is our
story.
I'm Jewish as well, and so theSydney Jewish Museum is exactly
the same.
I'm Jewish.
The people who are portrayed inthat museum, a lot of whom of
(20:12):
course came from the Holocaust,but, you know, what was their
contribution to the Australianlife?
You know, how are they similar?
How are they different?
Why are their customs different?
Why should they not be feared?
Now doesn't that sound exactlythe same as what I'm saying in
terms of a Queer museum or anindigenous museum or a Muslim
museum?
And if you're looking around atdifferent small museums and
(20:35):
affinity groups, this is exactlythe same, regardless of the
affinity group.
Everybody is looking to havetheir identity understood and
respected.
Kate (20:45):
What does Qtopia mean to you?
Greg (20:47):
It means a lot, it means a great deal.
My own personal history is I wasonce married.
I have a, a daughter who isturning 30 this year who I'm
extremely proud of.
And we have a very closerelationship.
I have a very close relationshipwith my ex-wife, Michelle.
I have a very close relationshipwith her mother, Susie.
Last August I was married to aKenyan-born man, Billy.
Kate (21:10):
Congratulations.
Greg (21:11):
Thank you.
And my ex-wife, my daughter andmy ex-mother-in-law were all
there.
In fact, our, my daughter wentand became a celebrant so that
she could marry us.
It was a beautiful ceremony.
What this museum means to me isan acknowledgement of who I am
as a man in a way that I couldnot represent myself truthfully,
(21:33):
many years ago.
When I was in my twenties, therewas no possibility that a Jewish
middle class boy could go and beoutwardly gay.
I mean, it just would be,especially with a family like I
had, which was high profile inthe Jewish community.
It was just an absurd thought.
And so I, I put my head aroundthat and decided, well, I did
want to get married and I didwant the traditions that I grew
(21:55):
up with, and I did want childrenand so on, and I, and I
genuinely had five very happyyears.
But I knew at the age of 30,cause I'm married young, that it
wasn't for me.
I couldn't sustain it.
I couldn't remain honest ortruthful and that that's just
not what I wanted to do.
So I had to deal with myidentity and I had to get people
to come and understand who I amand why I still matter.
(22:17):
And I think that it was tough.
It was very tough because therewas no support.
And it took a long time and itput me through bouts of
unbelievable depression, suicidethoughts and so on.
It also l led me right off thegarden path to drug dealing and
drug taking and so on in jailand everything.
So I have really, truly been tothe top of life, the bottom lo
(22:39):
life and back again.
And in that journey, what hasabsolutely been true to me all
the way is the need for me to behonest about my identity and to
say to people, none of us areperfect.
None of us can say we've nevereither made a mistake or a bad
decision and a wrong decision.
(23:00):
But everybody has the right, theneed to consider who they are in
this world because we're nothere for a very long time and
for the period that we are here,we should be absolutely true to
ourselves and be confident andcomfortable with that.
So Qtopia Sydney is that.
The other part of Qtopia Sydneyis that it will forever have a
(23:22):
memorial to the HIV AIDS period.
And as somebody who livedthrough that time, who lost
friends to AIDS and by the graceof God was not a victim himself,
I believe very strongly thatthat is something that should be
memorialized and celebrated.
Acknowledged for what it was atthe time.
Acknowledged for thecontribution it has today to
(23:44):
modern science and modernmedicine and above all be a
recognition of humanity and theability for people to actually
love each other against allodds.
And against all fear and againstall discrimination.
So for me, Qtopia Sydney isdeeply personal.
When I was invited toparticipate and to advise to it
(24:06):
originally and then to becomeits CEO, I could not have been
more delighted and moredetermined to take this
position.
Kate (24:13):
So Greg, should we go and look at Ward 17 now?
Greg (24:16):
With pleasure.
So where we are now is at theentrance of Ward 17 South
Exhibition and before peoplewalk in what we do is to, advise
people that there is materialthat can be confronting.
And we also have provided somephone numbers.
And straight over here is aboutWard 17 South artist and
(24:38):
curatorial statement.
It explains how the ward cameabout from the Sisters of
Charity, uh what it was being aplace of tremendous pain and
grief and loss, but also ofgreat activism and humanity.
And it also talks about whathappened here in terms of the
stigma, the mainstreammisrepresentation and, and all,
(24:59):
all that pain and anguish,abandonment and so on that
people went through at the time.
And at the end of the day, theamount of humanitarian love and
support that was actually shownat that time.
Then we then walk into theexhibition itself.
And so you can see the timeline.
that There have been, beentimelines done by a number of
different museums over time.
(25:20):
And we have we've called uponthose and we've, we've sourced
them and we've noted them.
Kate (25:25):
The timeline shows that at the same time AIDS was
identified and named in theearly 1980s, Australian states
and territories had only justbegun to decriminalize male
homosexual acts.
In 1982, the first case of AIDSwas detected in Australia.
And Ward 17 South in St.
Vincent's Hospital wasdesignated to treat HIV
(25:47):
patients, initially with 12beds.
Professor Ron Penny andimmunologist Professor David
Cooper were at the forefront ofHIV research and clinical
trials.
By 1987, approximately 50% ofall HIV AIDS patients in
Australia had received treatmentat St.
Vincent's.
In 1989, Ward 17 South expandedto 18 beds, which still proved
(26:11):
insufficient to meet demand.
Therefore, in 1993, planningcommenced for 24 bed ward.
As time progressed, thegovernment response differed
between countries.
In the uk, the conservativegovernment passed a law that
prohibited local authoritiesfrom quote, promoting
homosexuality unquote or fundingactivities that did so.
(26:32):
This had a detrimental impact onHIV AIDS awareness and
education.
Conversely, Australia madegradual strides towards positive
change.
This included allowing condomadvertising on late night tv,
introducing Condom man, asuperhero figure that promoted
the use of condoms and more.
By 2007, prep treatment hadproven to be very effective, and
(26:56):
as a result, Ward 17 South wasdecommissioned.
Prep stands for pre-exposureprophylaxis and is an oral
prescription drug for HIVnegative people, and it lowers
the risk of catching hiv.
St.
Vincent's Hospital continues tooffer treatment for people with
HIV and remains a globallyrecognized institution for hiv
(27:17):
aids clinical care and research.
Greg (27:20):
This is a very comprehensive timeline and it
has been beautifully puttogether whilst it has a lot of
information, you're not drowningin it.
And if you go through the yearsand, and depending on what age
you are, you'll be able toremember certain things or
you've heard other people talkabout certain times and you go,
aha.
Right.
That's interesting.
(27:40):
That's actually was in mylifetime or that part was in my
parents' lifetime.
It wasn't 300 years ago.
And then we also have a, adetail of where is HIV today,
where is it?
And how many people living withHIV?
How is it transmitted and has itgone?
And the answer is AIDS has notgone.
We are very fortunate in adeveloped country that AIDS is,
(28:03):
is pretty much gone and HIV istransmission is almost
nonexistent now almost.
But, and even if you get HIVit's not a death sentence
Anymore.
But AIDS is still veryprevalent, particularly in the
African countries.
One of our board members RobinKennedy, has been a fighter, you
know, since back in the earlyseventies for gay rights, she's
(28:23):
still nearly every year over inAfrica and around the world
pushing for more funding andmore support.
Knowing that AIDS is not overyet, and knowing how lucky we
are in Australia, to have hadthe response that we had, which
is identified here in this veryroom.
Kate (28:39):
Turning away from the timeline, you'll find yourself
standing in the heart of theexhibit where you are
immediately struck by thestarkness of the surroundings.
Put simply, it's a simplehospital ward, complete with a
bed, IV drip, and a small tv.
As you look up, you'll notice anoriginal ward door adorned with
a crucifix, a nice reminder ofthe Sisters of Charities
(29:00):
influence.
Glancing at the tv, you can seethat it's playing video footage
on a loop.
Greg (29:06):
It goes for a total of 46 minutes.
Part of it, now is silent beingdifferent, photos and so on.
And then it goes into actualpresentations by different
people.
Sort of takes you through all ofthat.
that And then the exhibitionitself is stark.
It is, it's very stark and isalmost hauntingly stark.
And you almost sort of think,have I come all this way to look
(29:26):
at what looks a hospital ward,and guess what?
That is exactly what it is.
And if you could imagine peoplewho were dying, very sick,
scared, abandoned, alone, whocame here and this is what they
saw, a bed, a light, some dripsand uh a station above the bed,
you know, into which all thetubes and everything were going.
(29:49):
That's all it was.
That was the life.
So from that had to be builtCommunity and care.
And so just from that very starkbed.
So it is deliberately stark witha lot of information around on
the wall.
As we leave the exhibition whenwe exit what we wanted to do is
to make sure that it was a safeexit for people in case people
(30:10):
have been traumatized or builtthat, and in any way triggered.
Yeah, there's some informationabout some really prominent
organizations, the BobbyGoldsmith Foundation and acon,
as well as some background onthe Kirby Institute.
And of course one of ourinspirations, professor David
Cooper.
So all of this is designed tosay, it may be triggering that
(30:32):
it may be scary, actually isvery much under control there.
It's an amazing organizationwith huge support at all levels
that we identified here on theway out.
And also we talked about whatabout Qtopia, Sydney and who we
are and where we're going andhow you can be involved.
So it's hopefully it's takenpeople on the journey into the
(30:53):
depths of thought and excitedthat thought enough for people
to say, I want to be involved.
Kate (31:07):
Qtopia is open from Friday, the 17th of February,
2023, in both locations with nocost of admission.
The Ward 17 South exhibition atthe National Art School is only
open for three weeks duringWorld Pride, but as Greg said,
hopefully this exhibit will tourThe Bandstand exhibit will be on
display for at least a year...
Greg (31:27):
And during that time, we will be agitating and advocating
very hard to government to getthe property that we know we, we
should have.
There is no charge for entry forthis first year.
We want people to come in and tolike us, to love us, to
participate, to give of thattime, to become volunteers, to
say that it's important.
we want community engagement.
That's the, that's the goal for,for year one.
Kate (31:48):
And speaking of community participation...
Greg (31:51):
We are looking for volunteers.
And already, if you go to ourwebsite you go straight to the
volunteer button, you sign up,you choose your shifts, and
we're doing two shifts a day,especially during World Pride.
And we definitely need morevolunteers.
Everybody's screaming forvolunteers, as you can imagine
at this time, all theorganizations, and we have a
shortfall, uh, which means thatthe directors are gonna have to
roll up their sleeves and, andman the stations.
(32:12):
But we definitely needvolunteers.
Kate (32:15):
Despite the temporary exhibition locations, Qtopia has
made a big effort to beaccessible.
The Ward 17 South exhibit isfully wheelchair accessible, and
the National Art School providesgender neutral and accessible
toilets.
The displayed video footage alsoincludes captions for the
hearing impaired However, theBandstand exhibit is a little
(32:35):
bit hamstrung by the oldstructure.
There is a ramp to the firstlevel, though it does not comply
with legal accessibilitystandards.
As a result, some visitors maynot be able to access the first
floor, which requires ascendinga narrow staircase.
To overcome this challenge, themuseum has set up a monitor on
the ground floor that displaysall the content from the
(32:56):
upstairs level...
Greg (32:57):
Plus the disco itself, the ode to the nightlife is
downstairs as well.
So there is enough to see evenaccessibility wise there at the
bandstand.
Kate (33:06):
Greg, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
It's been a true honor to speakto you and learn about Qtopia.
Greg (33:12):
Well, thank you, Kate, for taking the time.
It's important that people likeyourself do come and, and
question us and get the messageout there because that's exactly
how we're going to grow inrelevance and in support for the
community.
So I thank you.
Kate (33:27):
Being able to see Qtopia and talking with Greg was truly
inspiring and so humbling.
Greg really nailed what I likeabout small and niche museums.
They acknowledge and honor thediverse and intersecting
identities of individuals.
They provide a welcoming spacewhere visitors can feel a sense
of belonging and inclusion, aswell as promoting a deeper
(33:50):
understanding of the issuesfacing them.
Another thing I love about MardiGras time of year is that Mardi
Gra is the perfect example ofthis kind of celebration of
intersectionality.
You have floats for all sorts ofcommunities such as Gay Tradies,
Uniting Church, Queer teachers,Philippine Australian Sports,
Liberal Party friends, Jewish LG B T Sydney, Deaf Rainbow
(34:13):
Australia, Scouts Australia,Chinese L G B T, and so on and
so on.
Identity is an integral part ofthe human experience, and the
more we can do to make everyonefeel accepted and valued for who
they are, the richer we will beas a community.
So I know that got a little bitdeep there, but it's hard not
to, when you think about thepower of acceptance.
(34:35):
So seriously, make sure youcheck out Qtopia and try to
visit Ward 17 South in thecoming weeks if you can.
You won't regret it.
It's a very stark place.
If you go there, you think, haveI come all this way to look at a
bed?
And the answer is, yes, youhave.
And guess what?
That's all they looked at.
Kate (00:41):
I'm so excited for this episode.
It's not every day that we visita brand new museum, but that's
exactly what we're doing today.
Qtopia Queer Museum in Sydney isso new that it was set to open
its doors the very next dayafter my visit.
The museum features twoexhibits, both in Darlinghurst.
One is at the bandstand in GreenPark opposite St.
(01:04):
Vincent's Hospital, and theother is a recreation of Ward 17
South, which was originally inSt.
Vincent's Hospital, but therecreation is down the road at
the National Art School.
In this episode, we have aconversation with Greg Fisher,
CEO of the museum, and delveinto the reasons why Sydney's
response to AIDS was consideredto be among the most effective
(01:26):
in the world.
We also discuss the resilienceand support of the Queer
community during thischallenging time and reminisce
on the old Campy days of KingsCross.
Please note that this episodedoes touch on sensitive topics
such as HIV and AIDS, as well asanti-gay sentiment and that this
may be triggering for somelisteners.
(01:49):
I'm at the Qtopia Museum todaywith Greg Fisher.
Greg, how are you today??
Greg (01:53):
I'm very well, thanks.
How are you?
Kate (01:54):
Good, thank you.
And Greg, whose country are weon
Greg (01:56):
Well, today we meet on the land of the Gadigal people of
the Eora nation.
And I'd like to pay my respectsto the Elders past and present
and those who are emerging.
Kate (02:06):
Tell me about Qtopia.
I believe this has been a longtime coming.
Greg (02:10):
Well, we've been working on this iteration of a Queer
museum for the last two years.
The idea of having a Queermuseum is not new.
In fact I looked at it over 20years ago and I know that many
other people have looked at itvarious times between then and
now.
So yeah, it has been a long timein the making.
Kate (02:28):
So why now?
What's happened over the last 20years between then and launching
it now?
Greg (02:33):
Well, I, I had the idea to do it 20 odd years ago, but
didn't do it.
I did other things and thisparticular iteration was not my
idea.
I was brought in to help make ithappen.
What has happened between thenand now has been a maturing of,
of the Queer community.
I think that there's been amaturing of the wider community
as well.
There's been laws passed interms of equality, particularly
(02:54):
marriage equality is somethingthat we all know about.
There's been lesser known lawspassed in terms of
discrimination orantidiscrimination in the
workplace.
There's been laws passed, youknow, simple things like
superannuation between partnersand all sorts of things like
that.
Which are actually, and I don'tlike to use normalized, but it
has, what it does do is, iscreate a level playing field, I
(03:15):
guess for all people toparticipate.
The idea now of doing a Queermuseum is to get the stories of
the past told so that people whoare today dealing with their
identity whether it be sexual orgender, have a safe place to
come to, to learn from the pastand understand, and also a place
(03:37):
where they can bring loved ones,family, friends, school mates,
corporate mates, whatever, toget them to understand and
accept and participate.
Kate (03:48):
And who's involved in the museum and the curation of these
exhibits?
Greg (03:52):
In terms of who is involved, we have a board of
management and we have twopatrons, Michael Kirby and Ita
Buttrose.
Two phenomenal Australians whohave done so much for the Queer
community in particular withrespect to AIDS over decades.
Kate (04:06):
The glamorous Ita Buttrose is a prominent media executive
and current chair of the ABC.
In the early eighties she wasthe Editor-in-Chief of the Daily
and Sunday Telegraph newspaperswhen AIDS arrived in Australia.
She was appointed chairperson ofthe National Advisory Committee
on AIDS in 1984 to lead thenational HIV AIDS public health
(04:28):
education campaign.
One of her noteworthycontributions was promoting
transparent messaging about thedisease, such as dispelling the
misconception that donatingblood could lead to contracting
AIDS.
The Honorable Michael Kirby, awell-known human rights
advocate, and former justice ofthe high court of Australia, has
(04:49):
been openly gay since 1984.
He's utilized his platform tochampion gay rights and mobilize
the gay community towardscollective action.
After retiring from the highcourt in 2009, he assumed the
position of Patron at the KirbyInstitute, a Global Health
Research Institute based in U NS W.
(05:09):
the Institute focuses oneradicating infectious diseases,
worldwide.
Greg (05:14):
And then in terms of putting together the two
inaugural exhibitions we've gotDr.
Liz Bradshaw doing therecreation of Ward 17 South from
St.
Vincent's Hospital.
And that's being done atBuilding 11 at the National Arts
School.
And we also have a exhibition atthe Bandstand, and that's being
undertaken by curator JackieNorth.
Kate (05:35):
What's the relevance of the bandstand as a location?
Greg (05:39):
Okay.
Two things.
Number one, we took thebandstand because we wanted to
get going...
and the Bandstand was a vacantsite, and the council, Sydney
city council, who had beenincredibly supportive, offered
it to us and we said, yes,please.
Because if you don't start, youdon't start.
And so we made the decision thatas, as modest as that building
is uh, to start a lot of museumsthat are big today started
(06:02):
small.
And we will continue to advocateand agitate for the building we
want, which is of course the oldDarlinghurst Police Station.
Why is the bandstand actually ofgreat relevance?
It's because it sitsgeographically fantastically in
the midst of the history of theQueer community.
And geographically, if you looknorth, you look towards like Les
(06:22):
Girls, Kings Cross, and theUnderground- at one point
illegal gay nightclub, fromwhich people were arrested and
then bashed at the OldDarlinghurst police station by
the police.
If you look east, you're lookingat the St.
Vincent's Hospital, which ofcourse had Ward 17 South, and
its history with respect to HIVand AIDS.
If you're looking south, you'relooking towards Oxford Street
(06:44):
and all the excitement and allthe campness inside and all the
demonstrations and thecelebrations over time.
And then of course, if you lookwest, you're looking straight
across the road to the wall ofthe National Arts School.
Known as The Wall, which for along period of time was a pickup
place for gay men after thedifferent clubs had closed, and
then it became a beat and allsorts of things.
(07:05):
So it's got a real historyattached to it as well.
Kate (07:09):
So it's quite serendipitous that you are able
to grab that place for one ofthe exhibits.
Greg (07:13):
It, it truly is it, and you're right.
And we did grab it.
And also it sits beautifullynext to the National Arts School
opposite the Sydney JewishMuseum, and in and amongst
everything that I guess Qtopia,Sydney is there to represent.
Kate (07:29):
So the other exhibit is a recreation of Ward 17 at the
National Art School.
Yes.
Can you tell me a little bitabout Ward 17 and more broadly
speaking AIDS in Sydney and howthat was managed?
Greg (07:42):
Of course.
So, I mean, it's a very bigquestion.
HIV AIDS was of course firstfound or discovered in the early
eighties.
And at that time Sydney had avery large gay community and a
very proud gay community.
When the first diagnosis waswhich was 40 years ago next year
Professor David Cooper wasactually over in the States and
(08:04):
he is an immunologist and herealized that, wow, this is
actually gonna be a very bigthing.
So he came back to Australia, towork with St.
Vincent's Hospital and the KirbyInstitute-it was a different
name back then- to work out howto respond.
And it became known as theSydney response and the work
that was undertaken by thedoctors there to support people
(08:28):
who went very quickly then fromHIV to AIDS and to do all the
research and so on, wasphenomenal.
They also apart from treating,undertook all of these tests, so
is it to create over timevaccines or effectively vaccines
or treatments so that peopletoday who have HIV will not
progress to AIDS and will liveeffectively a normal life.
(08:50):
And those who do not have HIV donot need to get it.
There's effectively a block nowavailable.
So so over the time, the Sydneyresponse was the medical
fraternity, the legalfraternity, the patients, the
church and the community, andthe wider community responding
in a way that saw medicaladvancement and social care
(09:13):
growing side by side.
Kate (09:15):
This became a model known as peer-based service delivery.
In a personal essay titled"Through My Eyes", Bill
Patterson, a nurse from Ward 17South, recounts how gay men and
lesbians collaborated to providehealthcare services to their
peers, including nursing, socialwork, physiotherapy, counseling,
(09:35):
and other forms of support.
This approach was instrumentalin unifying the Queer community
and advocating for improvedhealthcare policies and
treatment.
Greg (09:44):
And it needed to because the discrimination at the time
against gay people was alreadysignificant.
And the advent of a killerdisease from gay people
justified the discrimination.
And so it called upon people ofgreat note, particularly Ita
Buttrose, who headed up variouscampaigns and, and others to
come on board and to challengethe discrimination and to help
(10:08):
foster understanding andgoodwill and care for people,
who were either doing it toughor dying.
Kate (10:14):
Just take for example, a media frenzy that erupted in
1984, After four infants inQueensland were discovered to
have contracted HIV through ablood donation from a HIV
positive man, unbeknownst to thedonor.
During this period, the mediaand various commentators spread
panic and misinformation, makingit essential to launch
(10:36):
responsible public healthcampaigns that provided clear
science-based facts.
These campaigns were critical inreducing stigma and promoting
better health outcomes.
Greg (10:47):
And Ward 17 South was effectively grabbed by the nuns,
the Sisters of Charity, who saidthere has to be a ward
specifically for these men.
And they also said, as did thedoctors, that nobody will die
alone.
And they stuck by that.
And you can imagine that therewas a lot of shame for people
(11:09):
who found out that they hadAIDS.
They were told when they camein, tell one person only, don't
tell too many people, theirfamilies didn't want to come.
They're either ashamed or tooscared.
And so, there was thatabandonment and fear surrounding
people who had HIV andprogressed uh, to AIDS.
They were sick people, but thecommunity responded with
(11:31):
humanity and celebration, andthere was this incredible
feeling back then.
I might, and I am old enough toremember that if we are going to
die, we'll die dancing.
And so Mardi Gras in fact, gotbigger during that period, and
this was also part of the Sydneyresponse.
Whereas other places around theworld, people were actually
going underground and going, ohmy goodness, oh my goodness.
(11:52):
In Australia, particularly inSydney, we were saying, well,
no, we're not going to do that.
We're gonna live until we die.
And the rest of the communitysaid, we'll come.
And so people who were very sickin wheelchairs with, with their
drips and everything were takenup to the Albury Hotel where
there were people dancing and soon.
Or, or Sydney, gay lesbian choiror opera singer or a drag queen
(12:13):
will come to Ward 17 South andperform and, and lighten
people's lives up.
And then we have some beautifulimages around that.
Some beautiful imagery, forexample, around Easter where,
you know, some drag queens camedressed as Easter bunnies and
so, and, and brought that jovialspirit into the ward.
So it was a place of sadness,horror, fear, but deep humanity.
Kate (12:34):
That seems very characteristic of the Queer
community and their unbridledjoy and celebration and, and
just love that they give anyoneand everyone.
Greg (12:44):
I think that's true.
And I think that the other thingthat it, it tells about the
Queer community is courage anddetermination.
Determination not to be putdown.
Determination to survive.
Determination to flourish, hopefor a better future, hope for
greater inclusivity, and awillingness to work hard for it,
(13:04):
and not to be bitter andtwisted, but definitely forceful
and, and clear in what it isthat we're always seeking to
achieve.
Kate (13:12):
What's your favorite part of the museum?
Greg (13:15):
That's a very good question.
I mean, we have two verydifferent parts of our
exhibition.
One is Ward 17 South, which hasa level of solemnity and
maturity, and on the other sidewe have the Bandstand, which is
really looking at celebratingwho fought for our rights, the
history and activism of MardiGras since 1978.
(13:35):
The old glamor and excitement ofOxford Street.
We have an ode to the old SydneyQueer nightlife.
We have a little disco there,with videos and so on historical
photos, showcasing art, fetish,rudeness, culture, all sorts of
things.
So, huge differences you know,in, in what it is that we have.
But in terms, if I look at atthe end of the day, people go to
a museum because they want to beenlightened and informed.
(13:58):
And yes, there's certainly a lotof enlightenment and information
surrounding what we have at theBandstand, but I think people
live in that environment or havelived in that environment.
It has been a long time since wehad AIDS.
And I think that a lot of peopleeither have forgotten about it
or don't think it belongs tothem anymore too, too too young
to even know about it.
So it was important to revisitit and it was important to
(14:22):
understand what grew from it,such as vaccines for COVID and
so on.
And to understand what thesacrifices actually were.
So to answer your question myfavorite is definitely Ward 17
South.
And within it we have capturedabout 30 or 40 hours of video
from a range of people who werethere at the time, some of whom
(14:43):
are still with us, survivors ofAIDS, carers, doctors, nurses
the Sisters of Charity,community members, politicians.
And that has been put into abeautiful package of video that
is up inside the ward 17 South.
It's a very stark place.
It's really, if you go there,you think, have I come all this
(15:03):
way to look at a bed?
And the answer is, yes, youhave.
And guess what?
That's all they looked at.
And therefore, what surroundsthe bed is information on the
wall, timelines.
What, who was actually involvedin the response and how did it
work?
And the video presentation,which brings to life that whole
era, and brings to life thestarkness of that bed.
Kate (15:26):
Is there a plan to have that video available in another
place or just in the museum atthis stage?
Greg (15:31):
Gosh, you ask good questions.
The answer is I'm pushing veryhard to tour that Uh, exhibition
because it's important,particularly when you think that
next year's the 40th anniversaryof the first diagnosis.
It is, it's a really importantone.
It goes right to the heart ofdiscrimination and right to the
heart of caring and empathy andunderstanding and love and
(15:52):
everything.
And I do believe it's somethingreally worthy of touring.
I don't think it's gonna be ahard one to tour because,
there's not that much in it.
And I think it's something thatI would like to see go around to
the regional areas and, andbeyond.
It is an Australian story.
It's not just a Sydney centricstory.
And there's been a lot ofexhibitions over the years about
AIDS, And I'm saying this one'sthe best.
Kate (16:13):
You're not biased at all though.
I am.
I am biased.
Greg (16:17):
I'm definitely biased, but I also you know, I, I don't say
that everything we've done isperfect and, and we are
certainly a long way, a long wayfrom being able to say we've got
it all.
And one thing about us is we donot believe that we are the
owners of knowledge or theowners of history.
We are the funnel and we wantpeople from everywhere,
(16:37):
historians and general publicwho knows stories to bring them
here so that the museum shouldevolve over time.
And I'd like to see it evolveand grow into an even wider
greater story.
So as we memorialize what hashappened, we do so with the
utmost and the highest level ofknowledge.
Kate (16:56):
So let's talk about that Queer history of Sydney.
You said the bandstand featuresa bit of a history of the Mardi
Gras and the 78ers, could youtell us a little bit about that?
Greg (17:05):
Well, how it's changed over time has really been from
underground and secret to openand celebratory, and it's always
been celebratory but it's gonefrom being, you know, illegal
and underground to being legaland above ground.
That's a broad sense what'shappened over time.
What I think has also happenedbeing 57 years of age, which
might, might as well say I'm ahundred is, I think in a sense
that I might be old in sayingthis, that we've lost a little
(17:28):
bit of the real campness that Iremember at The Albury, where on
one side, you know, the, on theSunday afternoon would be,
people on the piano and everyonearound it singing.
And on the other side would bemen with their shirts off
dancing on the bar.
And and it was pumping and itwas, you know, really hot and
heavy and it was camp and it wasloud and it was flirtatious and
all that.
And I love that so much.
And that really arose out of thefabulous things from the Cross,
(17:50):
which was like Les Girls and TheRex and other places there.
Nowadays, you know, you havedrag shows and so on, but it is
not as high camp and the, andthe clientele is not as high
camp, in my opinion, is what itwas.
Having said that there'sdifferent forms of, of fun.
Back then people were not as, afierce and fabulous body-wise,
body image-wise as they are now.
(18:12):
So it's sort of gone from, campand fun to I guess really, you
know, body image and Gorgeous.
Kate (18:18):
why is it important that we have a Queer museum and why
should people come and visit it?
Greg (18:23):
The reason for the need to have a Queer museum at the end
of the day goes to identity.
Identity and inclusivity arewords too readily banded about.
There would not be a corporatesocial responsibility charter
that does not have the wordsinclusivity and identity, yet
very few people know what ittruly means.
(18:45):
People do not know the painassociated sometimes with
dealing with one's identity,with dealing with it for
themselves and with explainingit to others and to finding
their place in life.
we see football clubs that, someof which object to having a
little rainbow flag on theirjersey.
I don't blame them for that.
I say that was too early.
(19:06):
I think that what is moreimportant than worrying about
that is having people educated,having the ability for
footballers to come in and tolearn when what we talking about
gay people.
You've got Ian Roberts, who wasa footballer himself on our
board.
You know, at the end of the day,the footballers at the time
didn't give us stuff if he wasgay or not.
He was the best footballer onthe field.
And you know, it, it, it needsto get back to a point where, or
(19:28):
to a point where people justunderstand that people are
people, whether they're gay,straight, trans, whatever
intersex, bisexual or an ally.
That people are simply peopleand that people shouldn't fear
difference.
And so the reason for having aQueer museum is to say to the
world, well, this is Us.
(19:50):
This is our history.
This is our contribution to thewider community.
This is where we fit in.
We're not a a sideshow.
We're part of the fabric of thecommunity, and this is our
story.
I'm Jewish as well, and so theSydney Jewish Museum is exactly
the same.
I'm Jewish.
The people who are portrayed inthat museum, a lot of whom of
(20:12):
course came from the Holocaust,but, you know, what was their
contribution to the Australianlife?
You know, how are they similar?
How are they different?
Why are their customs different?
Why should they not be feared?
Now doesn't that sound exactlythe same as what I'm saying in
terms of a Queer museum or anindigenous museum or a Muslim
museum?
And if you're looking around atdifferent small museums and
(20:35):
affinity groups, this is exactlythe same, regardless of the
affinity group.
Everybody is looking to havetheir identity understood and
respected.
Kate (20:45):
What does Qtopia mean to you?
Greg (20:47):
It means a lot, it means a great deal.
My own personal history is I wasonce married.
I have a, a daughter who isturning 30 this year who I'm
extremely proud of.
And we have a very closerelationship.
I have a very close relationshipwith my ex-wife, Michelle.
I have a very close relationshipwith her mother, Susie.
Last August I was married to aKenyan-born man, Billy.
Kate (21:10):
Congratulations.
Greg (21:11):
Thank you.
And my ex-wife, my daughter andmy ex-mother-in-law were all
there.
In fact, our, my daughter wentand became a celebrant so that
she could marry us.
It was a beautiful ceremony.
What this museum means to me isan acknowledgement of who I am
as a man in a way that I couldnot represent myself truthfully,
(21:33):
many years ago.
When I was in my twenties, therewas no possibility that a Jewish
middle class boy could go and beoutwardly gay.
I mean, it just would be,especially with a family like I
had, which was high profile inthe Jewish community.
It was just an absurd thought.
And so I, I put my head aroundthat and decided, well, I did
want to get married and I didwant the traditions that I grew
(21:55):
up with, and I did want childrenand so on, and I, and I
genuinely had five very happyyears.
But I knew at the age of 30,cause I'm married young, that it
wasn't for me.
I couldn't sustain it.
I couldn't remain honest ortruthful and that that's just
not what I wanted to do.
So I had to deal with myidentity and I had to get people
to come and understand who I amand why I still matter.
(22:17):
And I think that it was tough.
It was very tough because therewas no support.
And it took a long time and itput me through bouts of
unbelievable depression, suicidethoughts and so on.
It also l led me right off thegarden path to drug dealing and
drug taking and so on in jailand everything.
So I have really, truly been tothe top of life, the bottom lo
(22:39):
life and back again.
And in that journey, what hasabsolutely been true to me all
the way is the need for me to behonest about my identity and to
say to people, none of us areperfect.
None of us can say we've nevereither made a mistake or a bad
decision and a wrong decision.
(23:00):
But everybody has the right, theneed to consider who they are in
this world because we're nothere for a very long time and
for the period that we are here,we should be absolutely true to
ourselves and be confident andcomfortable with that.
So Qtopia Sydney is that.
The other part of Qtopia Sydneyis that it will forever have a
(23:22):
memorial to the HIV AIDS period.
And as somebody who livedthrough that time, who lost
friends to AIDS and by the graceof God was not a victim himself,
I believe very strongly thatthat is something that should be
memorialized and celebrated.
Acknowledged for what it was atthe time.
Acknowledged for thecontribution it has today to
(23:44):
modern science and modernmedicine and above all be a
recognition of humanity and theability for people to actually
love each other against allodds.
And against all fear and againstall discrimination.
So for me, Qtopia Sydney isdeeply personal.
When I was invited toparticipate and to advise to it
(24:06):
originally and then to becomeits CEO, I could not have been
more delighted and moredetermined to take this
position.
Kate (24:13):
So Greg, should we go and look at Ward 17 now?
Greg (24:16):
With pleasure.
So where we are now is at theentrance of Ward 17 South
Exhibition and before peoplewalk in what we do is to, advise
people that there is materialthat can be confronting.
And we also have provided somephone numbers.
And straight over here is aboutWard 17 South artist and
(24:38):
curatorial statement.
It explains how the ward cameabout from the Sisters of
Charity, uh what it was being aplace of tremendous pain and
grief and loss, but also ofgreat activism and humanity.
And it also talks about whathappened here in terms of the
stigma, the mainstreammisrepresentation and, and all,
(24:59):
all that pain and anguish,abandonment and so on that
people went through at the time.
And at the end of the day, theamount of humanitarian love and
support that was actually shownat that time.
Then we then walk into theexhibition itself.
And so you can see the timeline.
that There have been, beentimelines done by a number of
different museums over time.
(25:20):
And we have we've called uponthose and we've, we've sourced
them and we've noted them.
Kate (25:25):
The timeline shows that at the same time AIDS was
identified and named in theearly 1980s, Australian states
and territories had only justbegun to decriminalize male
homosexual acts.
In 1982, the first case of AIDSwas detected in Australia.
And Ward 17 South in St.
Vincent's Hospital wasdesignated to treat HIV
(25:47):
patients, initially with 12beds.
Professor Ron Penny andimmunologist Professor David
Cooper were at the forefront ofHIV research and clinical
trials.
By 1987, approximately 50% ofall HIV AIDS patients in
Australia had received treatmentat St.
Vincent's.
In 1989, Ward 17 South expandedto 18 beds, which still proved
(26:11):
insufficient to meet demand.
Therefore, in 1993, planningcommenced for 24 bed ward.
As time progressed, thegovernment response differed
between countries.
In the uk, the conservativegovernment passed a law that
prohibited local authoritiesfrom quote, promoting
homosexuality unquote or fundingactivities that did so.
(26:32):
This had a detrimental impact onHIV AIDS awareness and
education.
Conversely, Australia madegradual strides towards positive
change.
This included allowing condomadvertising on late night tv,
introducing Condom man, asuperhero figure that promoted
the use of condoms and more.
By 2007, prep treatment hadproven to be very effective, and
(26:56):
as a result, Ward 17 South wasdecommissioned.
Prep stands for pre-exposureprophylaxis and is an oral
prescription drug for HIVnegative people, and it lowers
the risk of catching hiv.
St.
Vincent's Hospital continues tooffer treatment for people with
HIV and remains a globallyrecognized institution for hiv
(27:17):
aids clinical care and research.
Greg (27:20):
This is a very comprehensive timeline and it
has been beautifully puttogether whilst it has a lot of
information, you're not drowningin it.
And if you go through the yearsand, and depending on what age
you are, you'll be able toremember certain things or
you've heard other people talkabout certain times and you go,
aha.
Right.
That's interesting.
(27:40):
That's actually was in mylifetime or that part was in my
parents' lifetime.
It wasn't 300 years ago.
And then we also have a, adetail of where is HIV today,
where is it?
And how many people living withHIV?
How is it transmitted and has itgone?
And the answer is AIDS has notgone.
We are very fortunate in adeveloped country that AIDS is,
(28:03):
is pretty much gone and HIV istransmission is almost
nonexistent now almost.
But, and even if you get HIVit's not a death sentence
Anymore.
But AIDS is still veryprevalent, particularly in the
African countries.
One of our board members RobinKennedy, has been a fighter, you
know, since back in the earlyseventies for gay rights, she's
(28:23):
still nearly every year over inAfrica and around the world
pushing for more funding andmore support.
Knowing that AIDS is not overyet, and knowing how lucky we
are in Australia, to have hadthe response that we had, which
is identified here in this veryroom.
Kate (28:39):
Turning away from the timeline, you'll find yourself
standing in the heart of theexhibit where you are
immediately struck by thestarkness of the surroundings.
Put simply, it's a simplehospital ward, complete with a
bed, IV drip, and a small tv.
As you look up, you'll notice anoriginal ward door adorned with
a crucifix, a nice reminder ofthe Sisters of Charities
(29:00):
influence.
Glancing at the tv, you can seethat it's playing video footage
on a loop.
Greg (29:06):
It goes for a total of 46 minutes.
Part of it, now is silent beingdifferent, photos and so on.
And then it goes into actualpresentations by different
people.
Sort of takes you through all ofthat.
that And then the exhibitionitself is stark.
It is, it's very stark and isalmost hauntingly stark.
And you almost sort of think,have I come all this way to look
(29:26):
at what looks a hospital ward,and guess what?
That is exactly what it is.
And if you could imagine peoplewho were dying, very sick,
scared, abandoned, alone, whocame here and this is what they
saw, a bed, a light, some dripsand uh a station above the bed,
you know, into which all thetubes and everything were going.
(29:49):
That's all it was.
That was the life.
So from that had to be builtCommunity and care.
And so just from that very starkbed.
So it is deliberately stark witha lot of information around on
the wall.
As we leave the exhibition whenwe exit what we wanted to do is
to make sure that it was a safeexit for people in case people
(30:10):
have been traumatized or builtthat, and in any way triggered.
Yeah, there's some informationabout some really prominent
organizations, the BobbyGoldsmith Foundation and acon,
as well as some background onthe Kirby Institute.
And of course one of ourinspirations, professor David
Cooper.
So all of this is designed tosay, it may be triggering that
(30:32):
it may be scary, actually isvery much under control there.
It's an amazing organizationwith huge support at all levels
that we identified here on theway out.
And also we talked about whatabout Qtopia, Sydney and who we
are and where we're going andhow you can be involved.
So it's hopefully it's takenpeople on the journey into the
(30:53):
depths of thought and excitedthat thought enough for people
to say, I want to be involved.
Kate (31:07):
Qtopia is open from Friday, the 17th of February,
2023, in both locations with nocost of admission.
The Ward 17 South exhibition atthe National Art School is only
open for three weeks duringWorld Pride, but as Greg said,
hopefully this exhibit will tourThe Bandstand exhibit will be on
display for at least a year...
Greg (31:27):
And during that time, we will be agitating and advocating
very hard to government to getthe property that we know we, we
should have.
There is no charge for entry forthis first year.
We want people to come in and tolike us, to love us, to
participate, to give of thattime, to become volunteers, to
say that it's important.
we want community engagement.
That's the, that's the goal for,for year one.
Kate (31:48):
And speaking of community participation...
Greg (31:51):
We are looking for volunteers.
And already, if you go to ourwebsite you go straight to the
volunteer button, you sign up,you choose your shifts, and
we're doing two shifts a day,especially during World Pride.
And we definitely need morevolunteers.
Everybody's screaming forvolunteers, as you can imagine
at this time, all theorganizations, and we have a
shortfall, uh, which means thatthe directors are gonna have to
roll up their sleeves and, andman the stations.
(32:12):
But we definitely needvolunteers.
Kate (32:15):
Despite the temporary exhibition locations, Qtopia has
made a big effort to beaccessible.
The Ward 17 South exhibit isfully wheelchair accessible, and
the National Art School providesgender neutral and accessible
toilets.
The displayed video footage alsoincludes captions for the
hearing impaired However, theBandstand exhibit is a little
(32:35):
bit hamstrung by the oldstructure.
There is a ramp to the firstlevel, though it does not comply
with legal accessibilitystandards.
As a result, some visitors maynot be able to access the first
floor, which requires ascendinga narrow staircase.
To overcome this challenge, themuseum has set up a monitor on
the ground floor that displaysall the content from the
(32:56):
upstairs level...
Greg (32:57):
Plus the disco itself, the ode to the nightlife is
downstairs as well.
So there is enough to see evenaccessibility wise there at the
bandstand.
Kate (33:06):
Greg, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
It's been a true honor to speakto you and learn about Qtopia.
Greg (33:12):
Well, thank you, Kate, for taking the time.
It's important that people likeyourself do come and, and
question us and get the messageout there because that's exactly
how we're going to grow inrelevance and in support for the
community.
So I thank you.
Kate (33:27):
Being able to see Qtopia and talking with Greg was truly
inspiring and so humbling.
Greg really nailed what I likeabout small and niche museums.
They acknowledge and honor thediverse and intersecting
identities of individuals.
They provide a welcoming spacewhere visitors can feel a sense
of belonging and inclusion, aswell as promoting a deeper
(33:50):
understanding of the issuesfacing them.
Another thing I love about MardiGras time of year is that Mardi
Gra is the perfect example ofthis kind of celebration of
intersectionality.
You have floats for all sorts ofcommunities such as Gay Tradies,
Uniting Church, Queer teachers,Philippine Australian Sports,
Liberal Party friends, Jewish LG B T Sydney, Deaf Rainbow
(34:13):
Australia, Scouts Australia,Chinese L G B T, and so on and
so on.
Identity is an integral part ofthe human experience, and the
more we can do to make everyonefeel accepted and valued for who
they are, the richer we will beas a community.
So I know that got a little bitdeep there, but it's hard not
to, when you think about thepower of acceptance.
(34:35):
So seriously, make sure youcheck out Qtopia and try to
visit Ward 17 South in thecoming weeks if you can.
You won't regret it.
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