July 9, 2023 • 40 mins
From pegs in the ground and spider web catchers, to Queensland's master clock and pencil extenders - we uncover the tools and techniques that have shaped our understanding of the landscape around us.
In this episode, we chat with Museum of Lands, Mapping & Surveying curator Kaye Nardella, who charts our course through the museum's interesting collection.
Discover how maps have the power to tell compelling stories, like the surprising existence of pineapple farms and vineyards in Brisbane's past.
Subscribe to the podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/roadshow-and-tell/id1666756225
Follow us on Instagram to see photos of stuff mentioned in this episode: @roadshowandtellpodcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kaye (00:00):
I love maps they described him as the Don Bradman of
Australian Explorers cadastralmaps, topographic maps, thematic
maps and tourism maps as acartographer, I didn't
understand why our departmentwould be managing time
Kate (00:19):
Welcome to Roadshow and tell a podcast for people hoping
to improve their pub trivia teamscore.
I'm your host, Kate, and I'llvisit museums so you can learn
things you never knew you wantedto.
Today we're going to the Museumof Lands Mapping and Surveying
in Brisbane, run by theQueensland Department of
(00:40):
Resources.
Yep, that's right.
A museum all about maps.
The museum is situated in theheart of the Brisbane C B D on
Edward Street and is on thetraditional lands of the Turrbal
and Jagera people.
So, We chat to cartographercurator, map connoisseur, an all
round delightful human being,Kaye Nadella.
And she navigates us through theworld of mapping, including how
(01:04):
early explorers made sense ofunknown lands, how maps tell
stories of how Brisbane andSoutheast Queensland evolved
over time, and even why knowingthe local time is important to
calculating longitude.
So join us as we charter coursethrough everything lands,
mapping and surveying.
(01:25):
Could you please introduceyourself?
Kaye (01:27):
Hi, my name is Kaye Nardella and I'm the senior
curator of, of the museum.
I was appointed to this role in2007.
The previous curator of themuseum was Bill Kitson, and Bill
is still involved with themuseum as a volunteer for which
we're very grateful.
My background, I started as acartographic cadet with the
Department of Mapping andSurveying, which is our
(01:48):
department in 1978.
And I had an interest in maps,and so that's cartography is the
creating maps.
So that's what I did when Ifirst started with this
department.
Kate (02:01):
And how did this museum come to be?
Kaye (02:03):
This museum was started in 1982.
It was started by Bill Kitsonwho worked for our department.
Our department had a largecollection of surveying
artifacts.
And Bill needed to find a jobwithin our department because,
Bill's background, he's asurveyor, and he had reached a
certain age, whereas a surveyorthe he needed to come and work
(02:26):
in the office.
He was no longer required towork out in the field.
So they asked Bill, what wouldhe like to do, and he said he'd
like to create a museum.
And the department felt this wasa really great idea.
So that's how the museumstarted.
Kate (02:38):
And what kind of things is there in the museum and what
services do you provide?
Kaye (02:42):
Okay.
The things in the department,the museum, when it started in
1982, it was all aboutartifacts.
So we had a collection ofartifacts, which are objects
some that our department hadpurchased from in the 1880s and
kept safe.
So Bill used those artifacts tocreate displays in the museum.
But over time, it was suggestedto him that perhaps he could
(03:03):
find some information out aboutthe artifacts to tell some
stories.
So he was able to come up with alist of the first 700 surveyors
that worked in Queensland from1839 to the 1940s.
And so he researched the familyhistory on all of those early
surveyors.
And so as a result, throughBill's effort, we have the
wonderful artifacts, but we havea photographic collection of
(03:25):
over 6,000 photographs,capturing, mapping and surveying
in land administration inQueensland.
We have original material, wehave artwork, we have cartoons,
we have diaries that, that weobtain from families of those
surveyors and cartographers.
We also have a library to helpus with research.
So there are books and there arejournals.
(03:46):
And Bill also started andcreated a biographical clipping
file and subject clipping file.
So we have over 1,500 files thatwe can use when we are
researching information aboutmapping and surveying in
Queensland.
Kate (04:01):
Through looking at the maps, how can you see that
Queensland has changed overtime?
Kaye (04:05):
Through looking at our maps, which I, as part of my, my
role, I'm using maps researchall the time.
We have the earliest maps from1841.
So we can see when maps wherenot many features had been
recorded on maps.
We can see the change in therecording of the, the features,
the rivers, the mountain ranges.
(04:27):
We can see that through theprogression of our historical
maps.
And we can also see theprogression of the cutting up of
Queensland into blocks that weretaken up by people as farmers
and, and shop owners and, andthose sorts of things.
Kate (04:42):
Okay.
Let's talk about those earlysurveyors.
What type of people weresurveyors?
Kaye (04:46):
They were male always male.
They would've had to have anumber of skills.
They would have to have beenable to use maths cuz
trigonometry was an importantskill in surveying.
So they would have to have hadknowledge of maths.
They would've had to have, hadsome artistic skills as well,
because the earliest surveyors,when they created a survey, they
(05:08):
recorded that information intofield books.
And then they themselveswould've had to use that
information to create the surveyplan.
Kate (05:14):
A survey plan is a document, whereas cadastral
information or property boundaryinformation is recorded with
property descriptions.
Kaye (05:22):
So it, it would record where survey has placed a peg.
There'd be a circle marked onthe survey plan.
They'd draw another circle whereanother survey mark was placed,
and then they would have thebearing and distance between
those lines recorded on thesurvey plan.
And they would've had to shadewhere relief was and record the
information.
(05:42):
So they'd have to write reallywell also.
and, and it was a fairly, afairly isolated existence, so
you could be surveying the backand beyond.
And so you'd have to beself-sufficient cuz you'd have
to bring all your own equipmentor your own food the horses to
get you there.
There were no corner shops thatyou could visit and restock.
(06:03):
So they'd have to be resilientresourceful and, and accept
isolated conditions.
Kate (06:09):
Can you tell me about the surveying process and how it's
changed over time?
When we talk about surveyinghere, we're specifically talking
about land surveying.
There's also other branches suchas railway and mining surveying,
but here we're specificallytalking about land surveying.
Kaye (06:24):
Okay.
The, the surveying process caninvolve three key things.
It's measuring angles, measuringdistances, and measuring
heights.
Oh.
So some background with regardto Queensland.
Queensland was a penal colony.
And in the late 1830s, thedecision was made in England
that they wanted to open theMoreton Bay District to free
settlement.
(06:45):
And if you're going to do that,you need to send surveyors to do
three types of surveys.
They have to do trigonometricsurveys, they have to do feature
surveys, and then they can startdoing cadastral surveys where
they cut up the land.
So three surveyors were sent toMoreton Bay to this area in
1839.
And they were Dixon, Stapletonand Warner.
And so they created a baseline.
(07:07):
They measured a really exactdistance, I think it was three
miles.
And it's on the way toCunningham's Gap.
And then they would've set uptheir their angle measuring
equipment on one end of theline.
They were measured to cited toMount Flinders recorded an
angle.
They would've written down tothe other end of their baseline,
measured an angle to MountFlinders.
(07:28):
They know two angles and theyknow an exact known distance.
Using trigonometry, they canwork out the length of those two
lines.
So it's all about triangles.
So then they would shift to allover the Moreton Bay area and
based on those at initialtriangle, they would take sites
to other mountain peaks andgather angles.
And so then they could work outall of the, the distances and
(07:51):
bearings between featuresbetween mountains.
And so in display, in ourmuseum, we have one of the maps
that they created, and it waspublished in 1841, which is the
trig map of Southeast Queenslandshowing all these triangles that
they created to manage theirmapping and manage their later
surveying.
Kate (08:08):
Wow.
It turns out that trigonometry,the bane of my year nine
existence Had the last laugh bybeing an actually practical
branch of mathematics if you area 19th century surveyor.
Kaye (08:19):
So they would do the trigg surveys and then they had to do
feature surveys.
So they had to survey therivers.
They had to survey the creeks toknow the shapes of those, cuz
then they could include those inmaps.
And once you have that controlthrough the trig surveys, they
were able to start cutting upblocks to do cadastral surveys.
And that's where they work out,where they want to start and
(08:40):
they put a peg in the ground andthen have some idea of what size
and shape block they want.
They would then put an peg inanother corner, measure the
distance in bearing record thatgo to a third spot, fourth spot
until they close their surveyand they'd have all that
information that would create aa parcel of land and that's
recorded and that information isthen from the field notes
(09:03):
recorded on a survey plan.
And those survey plans are thebuilding blocks that create all
our cadastral maps.
And so I should go back in those1839 when they arrived, they
would've had circumferences,which are like large compasses
that you can use to measureangles.
So that would've been the firsttype of in equipment they
would've used for angles.
They then would've purchased asthey became available,
(09:27):
theodolites, and theodolite werethe main type of instrument used
in surveying up until probablythe 19 1950s and 1960s.
These days we have things calledtotal stations.
And they're used to measureangles.
With distance measuring the 1839surveyors would've brought a
(09:48):
Gunter's chain, which is aspecial chain that has a hundred
links and in each link is justaround eight inches.
And so they would've stretchedthat out to measure distances
when they wanted to be fairlyaccurate.
So when they were subdividingtown blocks, they would've
measured the distance with theGunter's chains.
They would've also brought aperambulator, which is another
(10:10):
name is a surveyor's wheel, andit's around wheel that they know
the circumference and, and ithas a special device at the
center that each time it'spushed around, it clicks over.
So, so they would start at thebeginning of the day pushing or
dragging this perambulator onthe, on horseback and, and they
wheel it along.
(10:30):
And you could probably possiblydo 14 miles in a day cuz it was
challenging work.
And so at the end of the day,you'd look at the device in the
center and read how many timesit's gone around.
And so you'd write that down,you know, the circumference,
you'd work out, multiply, you'dwork out the distance that
you've dragged thatperambulator.
And they used those when theywere surveying pastoral runs,
(10:53):
which are really large blockswhen you you just couldn't be
accurate.
Right.
Kate (10:57):
And could that get over like scrubby brush as well?
whereas
Kaye (11:01):
That's, that's a really good question because what
happened, with dragging theperambulator, each surveyor had
their own table where they'dhave adjustments.
So if it was really sandy soil,they'd say for every revolution
they'd add a certain amount.
Mm-hmm.
if it was really rocky soil foreach revolution, they'd add
another measurement because,Yes, the, the ground is not
(11:23):
constant.
So they had adjustments.
And for heights, there are anumber of ways you can measure
heights.
And we, again, have examples ofall of these.
You can use uh, hypsometer.
A hypsome ter was a device thathad a thermometer and had a
special container where youwould pour pure water and then
you'd heat the pure water.
(11:43):
You'd have a little deviceunderneath it that you'd have
something to burn and you'dlighter up and it'd heat the the
boiling water, and thethermometer would be above that.
And when the water boils youwould record the measurement on
the thermometer.
And someone had created a tableto say that if your water boiled
at this temperature, this is theheight.
If your water boiled at thistemperature, this is the height.
(12:03):
So you could take that with youto get an approximate idea of
the height.
And we know that early explorersin, in Queensland had
hypsometer, like Leichardt had ahypsometer with him to help him
measure approximate heights ofplaces he was going
Kate (12:18):
so these early maps that we have, do they tell a story
about displacement and whathappened to the people that
lived before White settlement?
Kaye (12:26):
The early surveyors sometimes recorded the
footprints of, in indigenouspeoples So they marked on in
their field notes, which werethen transferred to the survey
plans, Aboriginal tracks.
So they recorded informationabout our indigenous peoples.
There's an 1839 survey plan,future survey of the Breakfast
(12:47):
Creek, and it's marked an areawhere it had aboriginal fish
traps.
And there are other survey plansthat have marked Bora grounds,
particularly in the Innisvalearea.
Kate (12:58):
How do maps support native title claims?
Kaye (13:01):
Maps can help because they record tenure on our land and
ownership of land.
So anyone researching a historyof, of a block of land to
determine native title issuescan refer to historical maps to
see what type of tenure was everissued over the block, whether
it was freehold, whether it wasa farming lease, whether it was
(13:21):
a reserve.
That sort of information helpsbuild a history of the block of
land, which allowsdeterminations to be made for
native title.
Kate (13:30):
Kay, tells me about her favorite part of the museum.
It's a map wall that she createdthat showcases 16 of the 30,000
plus historical MAP scansavailable from her department
over time since 1841, when thefirst Queensland map was
created.
Kaye (13:45):
So, There are different themes.
There are cadastral maps, whichare maps showing property
boundaries and propertydescriptions.
There are topographic maps whichshow relief, and then there are
themed maps.
There are maps that show wherethe local authority boundaries
were in, in 1,902.
There are maps that show wherethe rabbit infestation was
(14:05):
really bad.
So they, they just capture theessence, I think, of Queensland.
Kate (14:10):
Do you think the essence of Queensland is rabbit
infestation?
No, no.
maybe just floods.
Yeah.
Are there flood maps?
Kaye (14:19):
Yes, there are flood maps and there's an example of one of
the flood maps on the, on themap wall.
Kate (14:24):
There are 10,000 historical map scans on the
Queensland government's opendata portal, including flood
maps.
And interestingly, the earliestflood maps found were for the
1893 floods and Kaye says thatthey were worse than the 20, 22,
20 11, and 1974 Brisbane floods.
Very scary stuff.
(14:45):
What's your favorite map?
Kaye (14:46):
My favorite map...
queensland was created as acolony in 1859.
Governor Bowen was the personsent out by the British
government to manage the, thecolony.
He arrived and in 1860 he wastaken on a tour of South East
Queensland, and someone createda map of his tour.
(15:09):
And so that's my favorite mapbecause it captures the
southeast corner in 1860, andit's showing all the, the, the
roads that were in existence atthat stage.
The place names, the creeks andthe rivers.
It's just a really, reallybeautiful map.
Okay, can I have a second?
Kate (15:25):
Yes,
Kaye (15:25):
my second favorite map would be an 1889 topographic map
drawn over parts of Brisbane.
It's over the airport area.
And it was drawn because at thatperiod there was concern in, in
Australia that Russia wasexpanding in the Pacific area.
(15:46):
And so there was this bigconcern if we're going to be
invaded, we have to have someidea of where Creek Crossings
are, where it's firm underfootfor artillery.
So that was why the QueenslandDefense Force from the first map
was created in 1886 and they,they started creating
topographic maps over theQueensland area, the Brisbane
(16:06):
area, because they needed to beable to defend.
So this map is just wonderfulcos you look at it closely and
it'll say at high tideimpassable.
And it'll say firm for artilleryAnd it's, it's just, you can see
the military focus of the map,but from a historical point of
view, it's also incrediblyvaluable because it captures the
(16:28):
airport area up to Nundah in1889.
And it was only when I waslooking at this map that I
discovered there were growingpineapples in this area.
Kate (16:36):
Really?
Kaye (16:36):
They recorded that there were wineries,
Kate (16:39):
no! Wineries in Brisbane?
Kaye (16:41):
In Brisbane.
So it's the most beautiful mapand it records the names of the
people who had farms, theirnames are shown there, and the
roads.
So it's just like a snapshot ofBrisbane at that time.
Kate (16:53):
What are the three most important things on a map?
Kaye (16:56):
It depends on what type of map.
The three most important thingson a topographic map are the
legend, cuz that tells you whatall the symbols are and it, it
provides information.
The second thing is the northpoint.
So you know the direction thatthe map is facing and then the
contours cuz that gives you theheight.
So on a topographic map, it'sthe legend, it's the north point
(17:19):
and it's the contours.
Kate (17:20):
What are some interesting things about Brisbane that we
might not know, but you foundout through maps?
Kaye (17:25):
There's a 1897 road map over the, the Brisbane area, and
I was doing some research and Iwas looking at this map and I
didn't know that there was alocality called Happy Valley and
a road called happy Valley Roadwhere Stafford Road is now.
(17:45):
Oh.
So, so that I found reallyinteresting.
Another interesting thing Ifound again, I was doing queries
and I was looking at a Kellermap dated 1895 over the Toowong
Cemetery area and where thebotanical gardens, Mount Cootha
botanical gardens are nowlocated, that part of that area
was originally a rifle rangereserve.
(18:07):
So people would've gone there topractice in the 1890s to
practice their shooting skills.
Kate (18:12):
If you could be any topographical feature, what
would it be and why?
Kaye (18:16):
I'd like to be a mountain.
In particular, I'd like to beMount Lindsay.
And I'd like to be able to watchthe clouds and the weather and
then watch the world pass.
and I have an interest in MountLindsay cuz when I first started
working for the department, Istarted in a compiling three
section, which is the sectionthat drew topographic maps.
(18:37):
And one of the maps that Icreated was, the first one is
the 25 Thau topographic map overthe Mount Lindsay, Mount Barney
area.
And that was tracing lots ofcontours.
So I became very familiar withMount Lindsay and Mount Barney
area.
So that's the feature I wouldlike to be!
Kate (18:53):
And Kaye, as a cartographer, do you have a good
sense of direction then?
Kaye (18:57):
I think so.
I believe so.
I know.
I love maps and I'm always awareof working out where the North
Point is on a map.
Kate (19:04):
Why do you love working here Kay?
Kaye (19:06):
Okay.
I love working here because eachday I discover something new
about Queensland through myhistorical research.
And I also love working herebecause through scanning and
digitizing and working throughfinding aids and making these
things discoverable, I can helppeople research Information
(19:27):
about the history of landdevelopment in Queensland.
Kate (19:33):
At the entrance to the museum is a huge image blown up,
showing a man standing on top ofa mountain, taking in a view.
Kaye (19:39):
It's uh, survey survey from our department, Frank
Stompy, and he's on top of MountBarney.
And they would've had to carrythis equipment to the top of
Mount Barney.
So it's incredibly heavy, andit's part of a trig survey and
they're bouncing probably a beamoff another mountain top of a
reflector to measure distances.
Kate (19:57):
Kaye then shows me a bust that's standing at the left of
the museum entrance.
Kaye (20:02):
Okay.
This bust is really special tothe museum.
It's a bust of our firstsurveyor general Augustus
Charles Gregory.
He was appointed in 1859 and avery interesting gentleman.
The Australian Geographic wrotean article about Gregory a
number of years ago and theydescribed him as the Don Bradman
of Australian Explorers cuz hewas an explorer, he was an
(20:25):
inventor, he was anadministrator and he was a
surveyor and left a reallyimportant legacy in Queensland.
You can usually determine thatany place named, called Gregory
in Queensland was named afterAugustus's Charles.
Kate (20:38):
So Gregory Terrace?
Kaye (20:39):
Yes.
There's a pastoral district ofsouth Gregory.
There's a Gregory River.
Lots of Gregory's And when heapplied for the job of Surveyor
General of Queensland, cause he,he was our first Surveyor
General appointed in 1859.
We have a copy of his letter ofapplication and it's brilliant
cuz he says (20:57):
it is, I conceive unnecessary to recapitulate
surfaces under the government inAustralia during the past 17
years, as they are doubtlesssufficiently known to his
excellency.
And I trust that the experienceobtained during so long a period
in this Department of PublicService will entitle my
application to payconsiderations.
Kate (21:15):
He knows he's got the job
Kaye (21:17):
It's brilliant.
It's just brilliant.
Kate (21:19):
What are these tools Kaye?
Kaye (21:20):
These are instruments used for measuring angles.
So this is an example of acircumferenter
Kate (21:26):
So horizontal angles called bearings were measured
clockwise between astronomicaltrue north or the magnetic
north, and a line from theobserver to a given point.
The circumferenters were largemagnetic compasses with sighting
veins, which determined themagnetic bearing or direction of
a survey line.
(21:47):
The one on display is six inchesin diameter and dated from 1840.
By the 1860s, thecircumferenters were replaced by
theodolites, which allowedsurveyors to read horizontal and
vertical angles, as well as takeastronomical observations.
The theodolites on display aresix to eight inches, and they
look like small brass telescopesmounted on top of a compass.
(22:11):
There's another threeinstruments on display that look
like a simple piece of wiretwisted into three sides of a
rectangle.
Kay has a really great story onthe origin of this.
Kaye (22:22):
We had to gather information and list them to
provide that information to theQueensland Museum.
So we were going through theartifacts and we came to these
three bent pieces of wire.
And I thought to myself, why dowe have three bent pieces of
wire?
This is bizarre.
And Bill saw them and he said,ah, spider web catchers! I said,
what?
And he said, yeah, spider webcatchers.
And he explained how they'reused by surveyors to capture a
(22:46):
spiderweb that was used toreplace crosshairs in our
theodolites and levels.
And I've been slightly doubtingThomas.
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
So I went to trove digitizednewspapers and did a search on
spiderweb catchers and foundlots of stories.
And I was able to determinethrough those stories that they
(23:07):
were still using spiderwebs forthe crosshairs in instrument up
until the 1940s, and there usedto be factories in England where
they just bred spiders for thespiderwebs that they then sold
to the engineering andmanufacturing companies that
were making the theodolites andthe, the levels.
Kate (23:23):
That's outrageous.
Kaye (23:25):
These are examples of instruments used for measuring
angles.
There's the hypsometer that Idescribed to you.
So you can see the thermometer.
There's the the sleeve that youput the pure water in, in, and
at the base is where you put thefuel that you burn to heat the
water to boiling point.
Kate (23:42):
So remember, the pressure hypsometer measures height based
on the boiling point of water atdifferent altitudes.
The longer the bubble, the moreaccurate the reading.
Kaye (23:52):
these are some of the instruments that were used to
measure distances.
We have an example of, ofGunter's chain and you can see
it's got a hundred links andeach of those is just under
eight inches.
And at every 10th link they havea special little marker and that
was to allow you, so you didn'thave to stretch this thing out
and then start at one and get upto 79 to measure 79 links.
(24:16):
You just went to the 10th chainmark and however many points
there are on each one of thosespecial markers tells you where
you are in the, the link.
So see how there are three markson that one?
Mm-hmm.
that would say you're either atthe 30 link mark or the 70 link
mark.
Okay.
So then you just have to countfrom basically one to 10, one to
nine to work out.
(24:36):
So it'd be like 30 and 39.
So you could measure distance.
Kate (24:39):
Right.
Okay.
And these would be out taut?
Kaye (24:42):
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
They'd be stretched.
Kate (24:43):
So gunther's chains were used typically for smaller rural
and town blocks for greateraccuracy.
While perambulators were used tomeasure distances for larger
feature and run surveys.
The perambulator or surveyorswheel basically looks like a
modern day measuring wheel.
Kaye (25:00):
And and that's an example of a perambulator that was used
to measure those long distances.
And you can see the littledevice that that ticks over.
And in that table it saidAtkinson, when he was surveying
on the Crest Book run in 1869 ifit was undulating land, he made
an adjustment, one link in achain.
Kate (25:18):
Remember that these wheels are used to measure terrain of
all types.
So each surveyor had their ownmethod to allow for this.
Kaye (25:25):
If it was long grass and river bottoms.
If it was two links if it wasModerate Hills ridges and
timber.
It was three links and if it wasvery steep it was seven links to
a chain.
That's how much he adjusted hismeasurements.
And the next device that theyused to measure distance are the
the steel bands.
So that's a steel, really narrowsteel strip that they used.
(25:45):
They would stretch at a, aparticular pressure and to
measure distances.
So that followed on from theGunter's chain, and we were
using those again, until totalstations started replacing
those.
This is an example of a reversetree shield.
When surveyors are doingcadastral surveys, and in this
case, when they're doing bordersurveys, they will put a peg in
(26:08):
the ground and recordmeasurements.
But they also try and find abackup system, so if anything
happens to that peg marking thecorner they can look to see if
there's a suitable tree in thearea, and if they find one, they
can carve broad arrow for stategovernment and they can record
some information that says whatsort of portion number it's
near.
And they will measure a distanceand bearing from the survey peg
(26:30):
to the tree.
And that information's recordedon the survey plans.
And then a hundred years laterthe landowner wants to reinstate
that corner.
He contacts the surveyor.
Survey or finds the earliestsurvey, finds survey plans over
the area that may providereferences to these trees.
He finds a reference.
He goes out, looks to see if hecan find the tree, cuz he knows
(26:51):
where it is.
Cuz the pegs, peg might havebeen gone.
So he has to reinstate thatcorner if there's a reference
tree and reference trees, oncethey carve into them over time
the tree heals itself so itregrows.
And so a hundred years later thesurveyor comes with his chainsaw
and chops off the regrowth andit, it comes off like that and
it's a mirror image, reversemirror image of what's still on
(27:14):
the reference tree.
And so that's what this is.
It's, we haven't damaged theoriginal tree.
This is the regrowth and it's amirror image cuz you can see the
f e r so the original tree wouldstill be there.
So that's the regrowth.
Fun facts, our how ourcartographers, our drafts people
at different periods they'll becreating the survey plans, and
(27:36):
this survey plan was drawn in1914 over a block of land in the
Stanthorpe area.
So there are granite boulderseverywhere, and I've counted,
there's like over a hundredgranite boulders that the poor
cartographer has drawn on thissurvey plan.
And, and obviously they gottired of drawing rocks and doing
all this information because onone side of this plan, he, he's
(27:58):
put some cave people,
Kate (28:00):
and I see them there.
They're pretty intricate.
Kaye (28:02):
And, and on this side he has some other images and I
initial thought that this personwas trying to shoot this person
in the back.
Dreadful.
But when you look closely, weare hoping this person's trying
to shoot the snake amongst therocks.
Kate (28:14):
Oh yes.
You can see this snake sneakingup behind and it looks like it's
going to bite him in the behind.
Yes.
Kaye (28:19):
So we find interesting and creative and fun illustrations
on our survey plans when we aredoing our historical land
research.
Kate (28:26):
he's very creative with his language.
Extremely rugged, huge boulders,thick and heavy.
Kaye (28:31):
It's just brilliant.
And another story that I tell,again, I was doing some research
and I was looking at map showingoriginal pastoral runs
Kate (28:40):
for reference.
A pastoral run is a large,usually rural area where people
could take leases from the crownto graze authorized livestock,
usually sheep or cows.
Kaye (28:50):
And it's in the Darling Downs area and there were three
runs that were named starvationCamp, vexation and Burning
Thirst, and these are on theMoony adjacent to the Moony
River, Darling Downs, you'rethinking, and the names came
into existence.
The runs came into existence in1852, was someone just having a
really bad day to name theirruns.
The same person owned thosethree runs.
(29:12):
this is, this is an example ofthat the 1889 topographic map
over the Moreton Bay Districtarea.
Our department has createdcadastral maps, topographic
maps, thematic maps and tourismmaps.
There was a period when we werecreating maps for visually
impaired, and that's aphotograph of the actual
topographic 3D map.
Kate (29:32):
So the 3D tactile map has physical rises for the contours
and uses vision, color, shadow,and touch for users to
understand the whole terrain andphysical landscape.
Kaye (29:44):
Yes.
Yes.
And we made those available tothe braille organisations.
So it was a really valuablething that, that we did.
So we created ones overSoutheast Queensland and
Queensland and I have seen onesover New South Wales and
Tasmania.
Kate (29:57):
So.
And is this your favoritedisplay, the 16 maps?
Kaye (30:00):
Ah, yes.
This is my map wall.
We have cadastral maps, we haveland sales.
We have, that's the flood mapfrom 1893.
Oh, you would've wanted to be inthese high spots in the city
center.
Kate (30:13):
Wow.
That's a good part of the citythat's underwater there.
Kaye (30:17):
Yeah.
And see the, they didn't colorthis, but that, that's where the
floodline followed there.
Yeah.
Right.
We have maps that we createdfrom Landside imagery.
This is a, a map that shows theoriginal pastoral runs.
There was a period when we weredoing tourist and regional maps,
and so that was a, the MatildaHighway tourist map we created.
That's a land sale of theBrigalow area.
(30:40):
This is cadastral map that'sbeing, that shows our our survey
control information.
That's the map showing theprickley pair areas.
So I said rabbits, but it'sthat's the map that shows local
authority areas.
And I really like this mapbecause until computers until,
We created a dcdb, which is adigital cadastral database,
(31:03):
gathering all the cadastralinformation as a base layer, and
then you could use, put otherlayers on top of that.
How we managed our land pre thatis through working maps.
So we had a working map overevery location in Queensland.
And if anything changed up untilthe 1980s, there would be
(31:23):
cartographers such as myself, wewould get the relevant working
map out.
We would have a document thattells us what the change was.
A gazette, usually
Kate (31:30):
a version control?
Kaye (31:31):
Version control.
And we would come with oureraser, so we would've erased
whatever was there previouslyand write the new information.
And I love this map that I chosebecause someone accidentally
spilled some ink and they, theyobviously didn't feel up to
trying to erase it, but that'sover the Roma district.
So that's how we capturedchange.
It's, these were our controldocuments.
Our working maps With mapping,surveying and land
(31:54):
administration, at some point,you're probably gonna need to
make some calculations, so we'vegot some of the different types
of equipment that was usedthrough time to do those
calculations.
We have mechanical calculatorswhere you'd set things up and
then you'd turn handles and allthe mechanisms underneath would
rotate and you'd come up with ananswer.
We'd have tables, log rules andwe have facet calculators.
(32:18):
And this is the type ofcalculator that I can remember
using that was slowly introducedwhen I was in high school.
Kate (32:24):
It definitely looks more like a calculator.
Yeah.
Kaye (32:26):
Yes, exactly.
This is an example.
We had a photograph of what adrafting office looked like in
1949.
So we have a 1949 map.
We have some of the instrumentsthat would've been used, and my
favorite thing in this case isthis little green, looks like a
pencil.
And what it is, it's a pencilextender.
(32:47):
And if you were using a pencilto do your drafting and you were
sketching everything up and thenyou would go to ink and draw it
all up, you couldn't get a newpencil.
You couldn't go to the staffclerk or go wherever to say, can
I have a new pencil?
Until it wouldn't fit in thatextra extender.
So the little pencil in there isabout that, like two centimeters
(33:07):
long.
And it was only when it fell outof there that you could get a
new pencil.
Kate (33:10):
Yes, you heard right.
In some classic Queenslandgovernment cost saving
techniques, staff were notallowed to get a new pencil
until their existing pencil wasliterally used down to a stump.
Kaye (33:23):
We had a Sun Map brand introduced in 1981 and people
still remember Sun Map.
And they'll contact us and say,Hey, I'm chasing a map, a sun
map.
And so we put it on everything.
My favorite thing is wesponsored some ballooning
competition So Sun Map was onthere and we had four of these
caravans with Sun Map all overthem touring the state, selling
(33:46):
our products and highlightingthe types of services and what
our department did.
Kate (33:51):
Now we come to three old looking wooden clocks in the
center of museum.
One of these is called the"synchronome master clock".
Kaye (34:00):
These, these three clocks are really important.
These clocks kept time inQueensland from the 1890s to to
1975.
Our department managed theseclocks, and as a cartographer, I
didn't understand why ourdepartment would be managing
time.
Uh, It's a surveying thing.
With surveying, if you aretrying to determine longitudes,
(34:22):
time is a really critical thing.
To work out where, say,Charter's Towers is in relation
to Brisbane, you need todetermine it's longitude.
And so they would use timesignals and surveying equipment
and taking measurements, usingequipment like this to work out
the longitude o o of a place.
So time was critical tosurveying.
Kate (34:43):
Longitude is the distance east or west of a reference
point.
And knowing the local time isimportant for calculating
longitude because the earthrotates once every 24 hours.
So if you know the local time intwo different places, you can
use that information tocalculate the difference in
longitudes between these twoplaces.
Kaye (35:03):
So that's why in 1894, the management of these clocks and
managing the clocks and keepingtime for Queensland was given to
our department.
1975, we went digital, so westopped.
That was the first clock, and itwas made in Queensland.
That was the second one.
And it was made overseas, andthis is the third.
And this kept time from 1938 to1975.
Kate (35:26):
So it's not the King George square tower clock that
took, took time for Queensland?
Kaye (35:31):
It was the Queensland and, and I can find out for you where
they were located.
Kate (35:35):
So how would people out in the field refer to these clocks
when they're taking thelongitude?
Kaye (35:39):
They have telegraphs electrical telegraph.
They could send time signalsthrough telegraph, and there's a
special machine which you canalmost see.
There's a tape chronograph, andwe've got two of these tape
chronographs in our collection.
The electrical signal will comeand a demark the tape.
Because they'd be taking anobservation.
They would know, at, at a timesignal, they'd know where the
(36:00):
sun was, say in Brisbane.
And then at that time they couldtake a signal using these
instruments of a star or the sunand somehow work out the, the
distance allows them todetermine longitude.
And again, in our collection,we're very fortunate, we have
the artifact, that particularitem, but we have a photograph
with that artifact actuallybeing used.
(36:21):
We have information because ofthe information that Bill Kitson
gathered doing the familyhistory of search and those
photographic collection, we havephotographs of the people who
used this equipment in the1890s, and we know lots of
information, biographicalinformation about them.
So that allows us to tellstories that we tell in the
museum, that we also tell in ourmuseum's websites and that we
tell through our social media.
Kate (36:48):
The Museum of Lands Mapping and surveying is open
open Monday to Fridays from 9:30AM to 4:00 PM excluding public
holidays and is free entry.
The museum has manyaccessibility features for
visitors, starting with being onthe ground floor for easy
access.
There are QR codes placedthroughout the exhibits, linking
to video and audio stories foreach display accompanied by
(37:10):
accessible transcripts.
Additionally, an immersivevirtual tour of the museum is
available online, providing aconvenient and inclusive way to
explore its wonders.
There is also a bunch ofservices that the department
provides to help you make themost of the mapping and
surveying data available and toassist with historical land
research.
(37:30):
They digitize original maps andmaterials, making them
accessible through thedepartment's Queensland Globe
Platform.
This allows people from anywherein the world to access over
10,000 historical MAP scans,which can be useful for family
history research.
You can also see some of theinteresting stories they find on
the department's social media,which will often feature
(37:52):
interesting tidbits.
Kaye (37:54):
And I also do presentations to history groups
and to Queensland state libraryand state archives to help
people with historical landresearch.
So that's some of the things Ido to try and help people be
aware of what what informationwe make available and what, what
resources we make available tohelp people with historical land
research.
Kate (38:17):
from pegs in the ground and spider web catchers to
Queensland's master clock anddrafters pencil extenders.
I've learned so much aboutmapping and surveying from this
museum and chatting with Kaye.
Who would've thought thatBrisvegas, once upon a time,
nurtured vineyards and pineapplefarms or that the serene Mt
Cootha Botanic Gardens onceserved as an unexpected rifle
(38:40):
range?
Certainly not me! Thanks toKaye's insights, though these
little nuggets of history havecome to light.
That's all we have today.
Remember that you can check outthe maps and exhibits talked
about today on our Instagram atRoadshowandtellpodcast.
Thanks for listening to Roadshowand Tell.
(39:01):
If you enjoyed this deep diveinto a specialty museum, make
sure you subscribe so you don'tmiss an episode.
We're a new podcast.
So if you wanna help support us,please share it with a friend
and leave a rating and review.
If you are involved with or knowof a regional or specialty
museum that should be featured,please get in touch at
roadshowandtell@gmail.com.
(39:22):
I'm your host, Kate.
Roadshow and Tell was edited andproduced on the lands of the
Gadigal people.
I acknowledge the TraditionalCustodians of the various lands
on which you may be listeningfrom, and the lands that the
museums featured in this podcastreside on.
I also acknowledge anyAboriginal or Torres Strait
(39:44):
Islander people listening tothis podcast.
I pay my respects to elderspast, present, and emerging, and
celebrate the diversity ofAboriginal peoples and their
ongoing cultures and connectionsto the lands and waters of
Australia.
I love maps they described him as the Don Bradman of
Australian Explorers cadastralmaps, topographic maps, thematic
maps and tourism maps as acartographer, I didn't
understand why our departmentwould be managing time
Kate (00:19):
Welcome to Roadshow and tell a podcast for people hoping
to improve their pub trivia teamscore.
I'm your host, Kate, and I'llvisit museums so you can learn
things you never knew you wantedto.
Today we're going to the Museumof Lands Mapping and Surveying
in Brisbane, run by theQueensland Department of
(00:40):
Resources.
Yep, that's right.
A museum all about maps.
The museum is situated in theheart of the Brisbane C B D on
Edward Street and is on thetraditional lands of the Turrbal
and Jagera people.
So, We chat to cartographercurator, map connoisseur, an all
round delightful human being,Kaye Nadella.
And she navigates us through theworld of mapping, including how
(01:04):
early explorers made sense ofunknown lands, how maps tell
stories of how Brisbane andSoutheast Queensland evolved
over time, and even why knowingthe local time is important to
calculating longitude.
So join us as we charter coursethrough everything lands,
mapping and surveying.
(01:25):
Could you please introduceyourself?
Kaye (01:27):
Hi, my name is Kaye Nardella and I'm the senior
curator of, of the museum.
I was appointed to this role in2007.
The previous curator of themuseum was Bill Kitson, and Bill
is still involved with themuseum as a volunteer for which
we're very grateful.
My background, I started as acartographic cadet with the
Department of Mapping andSurveying, which is our
(01:48):
department in 1978.
And I had an interest in maps,and so that's cartography is the
creating maps.
So that's what I did when Ifirst started with this
department.
Kate (02:01):
And how did this museum come to be?
Kaye (02:03):
This museum was started in 1982.
It was started by Bill Kitsonwho worked for our department.
Our department had a largecollection of surveying
artifacts.
And Bill needed to find a jobwithin our department because,
Bill's background, he's asurveyor, and he had reached a
certain age, whereas a surveyorthe he needed to come and work
(02:26):
in the office.
He was no longer required towork out in the field.
So they asked Bill, what wouldhe like to do, and he said he'd
like to create a museum.
And the department felt this wasa really great idea.
So that's how the museumstarted.
Kate (02:38):
And what kind of things is there in the museum and what
services do you provide?
Kaye (02:42):
Okay.
The things in the department,the museum, when it started in
1982, it was all aboutartifacts.
So we had a collection ofartifacts, which are objects
some that our department hadpurchased from in the 1880s and
kept safe.
So Bill used those artifacts tocreate displays in the museum.
But over time, it was suggestedto him that perhaps he could
(03:03):
find some information out aboutthe artifacts to tell some
stories.
So he was able to come up with alist of the first 700 surveyors
that worked in Queensland from1839 to the 1940s.
And so he researched the familyhistory on all of those early
surveyors.
And so as a result, throughBill's effort, we have the
wonderful artifacts, but we havea photographic collection of
(03:25):
over 6,000 photographs,capturing, mapping and surveying
in land administration inQueensland.
We have original material, wehave artwork, we have cartoons,
we have diaries that, that weobtain from families of those
surveyors and cartographers.
We also have a library to helpus with research.
So there are books and there arejournals.
(03:46):
And Bill also started andcreated a biographical clipping
file and subject clipping file.
So we have over 1,500 files thatwe can use when we are
researching information aboutmapping and surveying in
Queensland.
Kate (04:01):
Through looking at the maps, how can you see that
Queensland has changed overtime?
Kaye (04:05):
Through looking at our maps, which I, as part of my, my
role, I'm using maps researchall the time.
We have the earliest maps from1841.
So we can see when maps wherenot many features had been
recorded on maps.
We can see the change in therecording of the, the features,
the rivers, the mountain ranges.
(04:27):
We can see that through theprogression of our historical
maps.
And we can also see theprogression of the cutting up of
Queensland into blocks that weretaken up by people as farmers
and, and shop owners and, andthose sorts of things.
Kate (04:42):
Okay.
Let's talk about those earlysurveyors.
What type of people weresurveyors?
Kaye (04:46):
They were male always male.
They would've had to have anumber of skills.
They would have to have beenable to use maths cuz
trigonometry was an importantskill in surveying.
So they would have to have hadknowledge of maths.
They would've had to have, hadsome artistic skills as well,
because the earliest surveyors,when they created a survey, they
(05:08):
recorded that information intofield books.
And then they themselveswould've had to use that
information to create the surveyplan.
Kate (05:14):
A survey plan is a document, whereas cadastral
information or property boundaryinformation is recorded with
property descriptions.
Kaye (05:22):
So it, it would record where survey has placed a peg.
There'd be a circle marked onthe survey plan.
They'd draw another circle whereanother survey mark was placed,
and then they would have thebearing and distance between
those lines recorded on thesurvey plan.
And they would've had to shadewhere relief was and record the
information.
(05:42):
So they'd have to write reallywell also.
and, and it was a fairly, afairly isolated existence, so
you could be surveying the backand beyond.
And so you'd have to beself-sufficient cuz you'd have
to bring all your own equipmentor your own food the horses to
get you there.
There were no corner shops thatyou could visit and restock.
(06:03):
So they'd have to be resilientresourceful and, and accept
isolated conditions.
Kate (06:09):
Can you tell me about the surveying process and how it's
changed over time?
When we talk about surveyinghere, we're specifically talking
about land surveying.
There's also other branches suchas railway and mining surveying,
but here we're specificallytalking about land surveying.
Kaye (06:24):
Okay.
The, the surveying process caninvolve three key things.
It's measuring angles, measuringdistances, and measuring
heights.
Oh.
So some background with regardto Queensland.
Queensland was a penal colony.
And in the late 1830s, thedecision was made in England
that they wanted to open theMoreton Bay District to free
settlement.
(06:45):
And if you're going to do that,you need to send surveyors to do
three types of surveys.
They have to do trigonometricsurveys, they have to do feature
surveys, and then they can startdoing cadastral surveys where
they cut up the land.
So three surveyors were sent toMoreton Bay to this area in
1839.
And they were Dixon, Stapletonand Warner.
And so they created a baseline.
(07:07):
They measured a really exactdistance, I think it was three
miles.
And it's on the way toCunningham's Gap.
And then they would've set uptheir their angle measuring
equipment on one end of theline.
They were measured to cited toMount Flinders recorded an
angle.
They would've written down tothe other end of their baseline,
measured an angle to MountFlinders.
(07:28):
They know two angles and theyknow an exact known distance.
Using trigonometry, they canwork out the length of those two
lines.
So it's all about triangles.
So then they would shift to allover the Moreton Bay area and
based on those at initialtriangle, they would take sites
to other mountain peaks andgather angles.
And so then they could work outall of the, the distances and
(07:51):
bearings between featuresbetween mountains.
And so in display, in ourmuseum, we have one of the maps
that they created, and it waspublished in 1841, which is the
trig map of Southeast Queenslandshowing all these triangles that
they created to manage theirmapping and manage their later
surveying.
Kate (08:08):
Wow.
It turns out that trigonometry,the bane of my year nine
existence Had the last laugh bybeing an actually practical
branch of mathematics if you area 19th century surveyor.
Kaye (08:19):
So they would do the trigg surveys and then they had to do
feature surveys.
So they had to survey therivers.
They had to survey the creeks toknow the shapes of those, cuz
then they could include those inmaps.
And once you have that controlthrough the trig surveys, they
were able to start cutting upblocks to do cadastral surveys.
And that's where they work out,where they want to start and
(08:40):
they put a peg in the ground andthen have some idea of what size
and shape block they want.
They would then put an peg inanother corner, measure the
distance in bearing record thatgo to a third spot, fourth spot
until they close their surveyand they'd have all that
information that would create aa parcel of land and that's
recorded and that information isthen from the field notes
(09:03):
recorded on a survey plan.
And those survey plans are thebuilding blocks that create all
our cadastral maps.
And so I should go back in those1839 when they arrived, they
would've had circumferences,which are like large compasses
that you can use to measureangles.
So that would've been the firsttype of in equipment they
would've used for angles.
They then would've purchased asthey became available,
(09:27):
theodolites, and theodolite werethe main type of instrument used
in surveying up until probablythe 19 1950s and 1960s.
These days we have things calledtotal stations.
And they're used to measureangles.
With distance measuring the 1839surveyors would've brought a
(09:48):
Gunter's chain, which is aspecial chain that has a hundred
links and in each link is justaround eight inches.
And so they would've stretchedthat out to measure distances
when they wanted to be fairlyaccurate.
So when they were subdividingtown blocks, they would've
measured the distance with theGunter's chains.
They would've also brought aperambulator, which is another
(10:10):
name is a surveyor's wheel, andit's around wheel that they know
the circumference and, and ithas a special device at the
center that each time it'spushed around, it clicks over.
So, so they would start at thebeginning of the day pushing or
dragging this perambulator onthe, on horseback and, and they
wheel it along.
(10:30):
And you could probably possiblydo 14 miles in a day cuz it was
challenging work.
And so at the end of the day,you'd look at the device in the
center and read how many timesit's gone around.
And so you'd write that down,you know, the circumference,
you'd work out, multiply, you'dwork out the distance that
you've dragged thatperambulator.
And they used those when theywere surveying pastoral runs,
(10:53):
which are really large blockswhen you you just couldn't be
accurate.
Right.
Kate (10:57):
And could that get over like scrubby brush as well?
whereas
Kaye (11:01):
That's, that's a really good question because what
happened, with dragging theperambulator, each surveyor had
their own table where they'dhave adjustments.
So if it was really sandy soil,they'd say for every revolution
they'd add a certain amount.
Mm-hmm.
if it was really rocky soil foreach revolution, they'd add
another measurement because,Yes, the, the ground is not
(11:23):
constant.
So they had adjustments.
And for heights, there are anumber of ways you can measure
heights.
And we, again, have examples ofall of these.
You can use uh, hypsometer.
A hypsome ter was a device thathad a thermometer and had a
special container where youwould pour pure water and then
you'd heat the pure water.
(11:43):
You'd have a little deviceunderneath it that you'd have
something to burn and you'dlighter up and it'd heat the the
boiling water, and thethermometer would be above that.
And when the water boils youwould record the measurement on
the thermometer.
And someone had created a tableto say that if your water boiled
at this temperature, this is theheight.
If your water boiled at thistemperature, this is the height.
(12:03):
So you could take that with youto get an approximate idea of
the height.
And we know that early explorersin, in Queensland had
hypsometer, like Leichardt had ahypsometer with him to help him
measure approximate heights ofplaces he was going
Kate (12:18):
so these early maps that we have, do they tell a story
about displacement and whathappened to the people that
lived before White settlement?
Kaye (12:26):
The early surveyors sometimes recorded the
footprints of, in indigenouspeoples So they marked on in
their field notes, which werethen transferred to the survey
plans, Aboriginal tracks.
So they recorded informationabout our indigenous peoples.
There's an 1839 survey plan,future survey of the Breakfast
(12:47):
Creek, and it's marked an areawhere it had aboriginal fish
traps.
And there are other survey plansthat have marked Bora grounds,
particularly in the Innisvalearea.
Kate (12:58):
How do maps support native title claims?
Kaye (13:01):
Maps can help because they record tenure on our land and
ownership of land.
So anyone researching a historyof, of a block of land to
determine native title issuescan refer to historical maps to
see what type of tenure was everissued over the block, whether
it was freehold, whether it wasa farming lease, whether it was
(13:21):
a reserve.
That sort of information helpsbuild a history of the block of
land, which allowsdeterminations to be made for
native title.
Kate (13:30):
Kay, tells me about her favorite part of the museum.
It's a map wall that she createdthat showcases 16 of the 30,000
plus historical MAP scansavailable from her department
over time since 1841, when thefirst Queensland map was
created.
Kaye (13:45):
So, There are different themes.
There are cadastral maps, whichare maps showing property
boundaries and propertydescriptions.
There are topographic maps whichshow relief, and then there are
themed maps.
There are maps that show wherethe local authority boundaries
were in, in 1,902.
There are maps that show wherethe rabbit infestation was
(14:05):
really bad.
So they, they just capture theessence, I think, of Queensland.
Kate (14:10):
Do you think the essence of Queensland is rabbit
infestation?
No, no.
maybe just floods.
Yeah.
Are there flood maps?
Kaye (14:19):
Yes, there are flood maps and there's an example of one of
the flood maps on the, on themap wall.
Kate (14:24):
There are 10,000 historical map scans on the
Queensland government's opendata portal, including flood
maps.
And interestingly, the earliestflood maps found were for the
1893 floods and Kaye says thatthey were worse than the 20, 22,
20 11, and 1974 Brisbane floods.
Very scary stuff.
(14:45):
What's your favorite map?
Kaye (14:46):
My favorite map...
queensland was created as acolony in 1859.
Governor Bowen was the personsent out by the British
government to manage the, thecolony.
He arrived and in 1860 he wastaken on a tour of South East
Queensland, and someone createda map of his tour.
(15:09):
And so that's my favorite mapbecause it captures the
southeast corner in 1860, andit's showing all the, the, the
roads that were in existence atthat stage.
The place names, the creeks andthe rivers.
It's just a really, reallybeautiful map.
Okay, can I have a second?
Kate (15:25):
Yes,
Kaye (15:25):
my second favorite map would be an 1889 topographic map
drawn over parts of Brisbane.
It's over the airport area.
And it was drawn because at thatperiod there was concern in, in
Australia that Russia wasexpanding in the Pacific area.
(15:46):
And so there was this bigconcern if we're going to be
invaded, we have to have someidea of where Creek Crossings
are, where it's firm underfootfor artillery.
So that was why the QueenslandDefense Force from the first map
was created in 1886 and they,they started creating
topographic maps over theQueensland area, the Brisbane
(16:06):
area, because they needed to beable to defend.
So this map is just wonderfulcos you look at it closely and
it'll say at high tideimpassable.
And it'll say firm for artilleryAnd it's, it's just, you can see
the military focus of the map,but from a historical point of
view, it's also incrediblyvaluable because it captures the
(16:28):
airport area up to Nundah in1889.
And it was only when I waslooking at this map that I
discovered there were growingpineapples in this area.
Kate (16:36):
Really?
Kaye (16:36):
They recorded that there were wineries,
Kate (16:39):
no! Wineries in Brisbane?
Kaye (16:41):
In Brisbane.
So it's the most beautiful mapand it records the names of the
people who had farms, theirnames are shown there, and the
roads.
So it's just like a snapshot ofBrisbane at that time.
Kate (16:53):
What are the three most important things on a map?
Kaye (16:56):
It depends on what type of map.
The three most important thingson a topographic map are the
legend, cuz that tells you whatall the symbols are and it, it
provides information.
The second thing is the northpoint.
So you know the direction thatthe map is facing and then the
contours cuz that gives you theheight.
So on a topographic map, it'sthe legend, it's the north point
(17:19):
and it's the contours.
Kate (17:20):
What are some interesting things about Brisbane that we
might not know, but you foundout through maps?
Kaye (17:25):
There's a 1897 road map over the, the Brisbane area, and
I was doing some research and Iwas looking at this map and I
didn't know that there was alocality called Happy Valley and
a road called happy Valley Roadwhere Stafford Road is now.
(17:45):
Oh.
So, so that I found reallyinteresting.
Another interesting thing Ifound again, I was doing queries
and I was looking at a Kellermap dated 1895 over the Toowong
Cemetery area and where thebotanical gardens, Mount Cootha
botanical gardens are nowlocated, that part of that area
was originally a rifle rangereserve.
(18:07):
So people would've gone there topractice in the 1890s to
practice their shooting skills.
Kate (18:12):
If you could be any topographical feature, what
would it be and why?
Kaye (18:16):
I'd like to be a mountain.
In particular, I'd like to beMount Lindsay.
And I'd like to be able to watchthe clouds and the weather and
then watch the world pass.
and I have an interest in MountLindsay cuz when I first started
working for the department, Istarted in a compiling three
section, which is the sectionthat drew topographic maps.
(18:37):
And one of the maps that Icreated was, the first one is
the 25 Thau topographic map overthe Mount Lindsay, Mount Barney
area.
And that was tracing lots ofcontours.
So I became very familiar withMount Lindsay and Mount Barney
area.
So that's the feature I wouldlike to be!
Kate (18:53):
And Kaye, as a cartographer, do you have a good
sense of direction then?
Kaye (18:57):
I think so.
I believe so.
I know.
I love maps and I'm always awareof working out where the North
Point is on a map.
Kate (19:04):
Why do you love working here Kay?
Kaye (19:06):
Okay.
I love working here because eachday I discover something new
about Queensland through myhistorical research.
And I also love working herebecause through scanning and
digitizing and working throughfinding aids and making these
things discoverable, I can helppeople research Information
(19:27):
about the history of landdevelopment in Queensland.
Kate (19:33):
At the entrance to the museum is a huge image blown up,
showing a man standing on top ofa mountain, taking in a view.
Kaye (19:39):
It's uh, survey survey from our department, Frank
Stompy, and he's on top of MountBarney.
And they would've had to carrythis equipment to the top of
Mount Barney.
So it's incredibly heavy, andit's part of a trig survey and
they're bouncing probably a beamoff another mountain top of a
reflector to measure distances.
Kate (19:57):
Kaye then shows me a bust that's standing at the left of
the museum entrance.
Kaye (20:02):
Okay.
This bust is really special tothe museum.
It's a bust of our firstsurveyor general Augustus
Charles Gregory.
He was appointed in 1859 and avery interesting gentleman.
The Australian Geographic wrotean article about Gregory a
number of years ago and theydescribed him as the Don Bradman
of Australian Explorers cuz hewas an explorer, he was an
(20:25):
inventor, he was anadministrator and he was a
surveyor and left a reallyimportant legacy in Queensland.
You can usually determine thatany place named, called Gregory
in Queensland was named afterAugustus's Charles.
Kate (20:38):
So Gregory Terrace?
Kaye (20:39):
Yes.
There's a pastoral district ofsouth Gregory.
There's a Gregory River.
Lots of Gregory's And when heapplied for the job of Surveyor
General of Queensland, cause he,he was our first Surveyor
General appointed in 1859.
We have a copy of his letter ofapplication and it's brilliant
cuz he says (20:57):
it is, I conceive unnecessary to recapitulate
surfaces under the government inAustralia during the past 17
years, as they are doubtlesssufficiently known to his
excellency.
And I trust that the experienceobtained during so long a period
in this Department of PublicService will entitle my
application to payconsiderations.
Kate (21:15):
He knows he's got the job
Kaye (21:17):
It's brilliant.
It's just brilliant.
Kate (21:19):
What are these tools Kaye?
Kaye (21:20):
These are instruments used for measuring angles.
So this is an example of acircumferenter
Kate (21:26):
So horizontal angles called bearings were measured
clockwise between astronomicaltrue north or the magnetic
north, and a line from theobserver to a given point.
The circumferenters were largemagnetic compasses with sighting
veins, which determined themagnetic bearing or direction of
a survey line.
(21:47):
The one on display is six inchesin diameter and dated from 1840.
By the 1860s, thecircumferenters were replaced by
theodolites, which allowedsurveyors to read horizontal and
vertical angles, as well as takeastronomical observations.
The theodolites on display aresix to eight inches, and they
look like small brass telescopesmounted on top of a compass.
(22:11):
There's another threeinstruments on display that look
like a simple piece of wiretwisted into three sides of a
rectangle.
Kay has a really great story onthe origin of this.
Kaye (22:22):
We had to gather information and list them to
provide that information to theQueensland Museum.
So we were going through theartifacts and we came to these
three bent pieces of wire.
And I thought to myself, why dowe have three bent pieces of
wire?
This is bizarre.
And Bill saw them and he said,ah, spider web catchers! I said,
what?
And he said, yeah, spider webcatchers.
And he explained how they'reused by surveyors to capture a
(22:46):
spiderweb that was used toreplace crosshairs in our
theodolites and levels.
And I've been slightly doubtingThomas.
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
So I went to trove digitizednewspapers and did a search on
spiderweb catchers and foundlots of stories.
And I was able to determinethrough those stories that they
(23:07):
were still using spiderwebs forthe crosshairs in instrument up
until the 1940s, and there usedto be factories in England where
they just bred spiders for thespiderwebs that they then sold
to the engineering andmanufacturing companies that
were making the theodolites andthe, the levels.
Kate (23:23):
That's outrageous.
Kaye (23:25):
These are examples of instruments used for measuring
angles.
There's the hypsometer that Idescribed to you.
So you can see the thermometer.
There's the the sleeve that youput the pure water in, in, and
at the base is where you put thefuel that you burn to heat the
water to boiling point.
Kate (23:42):
So remember, the pressure hypsometer measures height based
on the boiling point of water atdifferent altitudes.
The longer the bubble, the moreaccurate the reading.
Kaye (23:52):
these are some of the instruments that were used to
measure distances.
We have an example of, ofGunter's chain and you can see
it's got a hundred links andeach of those is just under
eight inches.
And at every 10th link they havea special little marker and that
was to allow you, so you didn'thave to stretch this thing out
and then start at one and get upto 79 to measure 79 links.
(24:16):
You just went to the 10th chainmark and however many points
there are on each one of thosespecial markers tells you where
you are in the, the link.
So see how there are three markson that one?
Mm-hmm.
that would say you're either atthe 30 link mark or the 70 link
mark.
Okay.
So then you just have to countfrom basically one to 10, one to
nine to work out.
(24:36):
So it'd be like 30 and 39.
So you could measure distance.
Kate (24:39):
Right.
Okay.
And these would be out taut?
Kaye (24:42):
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
They'd be stretched.
Kate (24:43):
So gunther's chains were used typically for smaller rural
and town blocks for greateraccuracy.
While perambulators were used tomeasure distances for larger
feature and run surveys.
The perambulator or surveyorswheel basically looks like a
modern day measuring wheel.
Kaye (25:00):
And and that's an example of a perambulator that was used
to measure those long distances.
And you can see the littledevice that that ticks over.
And in that table it saidAtkinson, when he was surveying
on the Crest Book run in 1869 ifit was undulating land, he made
an adjustment, one link in achain.
Kate (25:18):
Remember that these wheels are used to measure terrain of
all types.
So each surveyor had their ownmethod to allow for this.
Kaye (25:25):
If it was long grass and river bottoms.
If it was two links if it wasModerate Hills ridges and
timber.
It was three links and if it wasvery steep it was seven links to
a chain.
That's how much he adjusted hismeasurements.
And the next device that theyused to measure distance are the
the steel bands.
So that's a steel, really narrowsteel strip that they used.
(25:45):
They would stretch at a, aparticular pressure and to
measure distances.
So that followed on from theGunter's chain, and we were
using those again, until totalstations started replacing
those.
This is an example of a reversetree shield.
When surveyors are doingcadastral surveys, and in this
case, when they're doing bordersurveys, they will put a peg in
(26:08):
the ground and recordmeasurements.
But they also try and find abackup system, so if anything
happens to that peg marking thecorner they can look to see if
there's a suitable tree in thearea, and if they find one, they
can carve broad arrow for stategovernment and they can record
some information that says whatsort of portion number it's
near.
And they will measure a distanceand bearing from the survey peg
(26:30):
to the tree.
And that information's recordedon the survey plans.
And then a hundred years laterthe landowner wants to reinstate
that corner.
He contacts the surveyor.
Survey or finds the earliestsurvey, finds survey plans over
the area that may providereferences to these trees.
He finds a reference.
He goes out, looks to see if hecan find the tree, cuz he knows
(26:51):
where it is.
Cuz the pegs, peg might havebeen gone.
So he has to reinstate thatcorner if there's a reference
tree and reference trees, oncethey carve into them over time
the tree heals itself so itregrows.
And so a hundred years later thesurveyor comes with his chainsaw
and chops off the regrowth andit, it comes off like that and
it's a mirror image, reversemirror image of what's still on
(27:14):
the reference tree.
And so that's what this is.
It's, we haven't damaged theoriginal tree.
This is the regrowth and it's amirror image cuz you can see the
f e r so the original tree wouldstill be there.
So that's the regrowth.
Fun facts, our how ourcartographers, our drafts people
at different periods they'll becreating the survey plans, and
(27:36):
this survey plan was drawn in1914 over a block of land in the
Stanthorpe area.
So there are granite boulderseverywhere, and I've counted,
there's like over a hundredgranite boulders that the poor
cartographer has drawn on thissurvey plan.
And, and obviously they gottired of drawing rocks and doing
all this information because onone side of this plan, he, he's
(27:58):
put some cave people,
Kate (28:00):
and I see them there.
They're pretty intricate.
Kaye (28:02):
And, and on this side he has some other images and I
initial thought that this personwas trying to shoot this person
in the back.
Dreadful.
But when you look closely, weare hoping this person's trying
to shoot the snake amongst therocks.
Kate (28:14):
Oh yes.
You can see this snake sneakingup behind and it looks like it's
going to bite him in the behind.
Yes.
Kaye (28:19):
So we find interesting and creative and fun illustrations
on our survey plans when we aredoing our historical land
research.
Kate (28:26):
he's very creative with his language.
Extremely rugged, huge boulders,thick and heavy.
Kaye (28:31):
It's just brilliant.
And another story that I tell,again, I was doing some research
and I was looking at map showingoriginal pastoral runs
Kate (28:40):
for reference.
A pastoral run is a large,usually rural area where people
could take leases from the crownto graze authorized livestock,
usually sheep or cows.
Kaye (28:50):
And it's in the Darling Downs area and there were three
runs that were named starvationCamp, vexation and Burning
Thirst, and these are on theMoony adjacent to the Moony
River, Darling Downs, you'rethinking, and the names came
into existence.
The runs came into existence in1852, was someone just having a
really bad day to name theirruns.
The same person owned thosethree runs.
(29:12):
this is, this is an example ofthat the 1889 topographic map
over the Moreton Bay Districtarea.
Our department has createdcadastral maps, topographic
maps, thematic maps and tourismmaps.
There was a period when we werecreating maps for visually
impaired, and that's aphotograph of the actual
topographic 3D map.
Kate (29:32):
So the 3D tactile map has physical rises for the contours
and uses vision, color, shadow,and touch for users to
understand the whole terrain andphysical landscape.
Kaye (29:44):
Yes.
Yes.
And we made those available tothe braille organisations.
So it was a really valuablething that, that we did.
So we created ones overSoutheast Queensland and
Queensland and I have seen onesover New South Wales and
Tasmania.
Kate (29:57):
So.
And is this your favoritedisplay, the 16 maps?
Kaye (30:00):
Ah, yes.
This is my map wall.
We have cadastral maps, we haveland sales.
We have, that's the flood mapfrom 1893.
Oh, you would've wanted to be inthese high spots in the city
center.
Kate (30:13):
Wow.
That's a good part of the citythat's underwater there.
Kaye (30:17):
Yeah.
And see the, they didn't colorthis, but that, that's where the
floodline followed there.
Yeah.
Right.
We have maps that we createdfrom Landside imagery.
This is a, a map that shows theoriginal pastoral runs.
There was a period when we weredoing tourist and regional maps,
and so that was a, the MatildaHighway tourist map we created.
That's a land sale of theBrigalow area.
(30:40):
This is cadastral map that'sbeing, that shows our our survey
control information.
That's the map showing theprickley pair areas.
So I said rabbits, but it'sthat's the map that shows local
authority areas.
And I really like this mapbecause until computers until,
We created a dcdb, which is adigital cadastral database,
(31:03):
gathering all the cadastralinformation as a base layer, and
then you could use, put otherlayers on top of that.
How we managed our land pre thatis through working maps.
So we had a working map overevery location in Queensland.
And if anything changed up untilthe 1980s, there would be
(31:23):
cartographers such as myself, wewould get the relevant working
map out.
We would have a document thattells us what the change was.
A gazette, usually
Kate (31:30):
a version control?
Kaye (31:31):
Version control.
And we would come with oureraser, so we would've erased
whatever was there previouslyand write the new information.
And I love this map that I chosebecause someone accidentally
spilled some ink and they, theyobviously didn't feel up to
trying to erase it, but that'sover the Roma district.
So that's how we capturedchange.
It's, these were our controldocuments.
Our working maps With mapping,surveying and land
(31:54):
administration, at some point,you're probably gonna need to
make some calculations, so we'vegot some of the different types
of equipment that was usedthrough time to do those
calculations.
We have mechanical calculatorswhere you'd set things up and
then you'd turn handles and allthe mechanisms underneath would
rotate and you'd come up with ananswer.
We'd have tables, log rules andwe have facet calculators.
(32:18):
And this is the type ofcalculator that I can remember
using that was slowly introducedwhen I was in high school.
Kate (32:24):
It definitely looks more like a calculator.
Yeah.
Kaye (32:26):
Yes, exactly.
This is an example.
We had a photograph of what adrafting office looked like in
1949.
So we have a 1949 map.
We have some of the instrumentsthat would've been used, and my
favorite thing in this case isthis little green, looks like a
pencil.
And what it is, it's a pencilextender.
(32:47):
And if you were using a pencilto do your drafting and you were
sketching everything up and thenyou would go to ink and draw it
all up, you couldn't get a newpencil.
You couldn't go to the staffclerk or go wherever to say, can
I have a new pencil?
Until it wouldn't fit in thatextra extender.
So the little pencil in there isabout that, like two centimeters
(33:07):
long.
And it was only when it fell outof there that you could get a
new pencil.
Kate (33:10):
Yes, you heard right.
In some classic Queenslandgovernment cost saving
techniques, staff were notallowed to get a new pencil
until their existing pencil wasliterally used down to a stump.
Kaye (33:23):
We had a Sun Map brand introduced in 1981 and people
still remember Sun Map.
And they'll contact us and say,Hey, I'm chasing a map, a sun
map.
And so we put it on everything.
My favorite thing is wesponsored some ballooning
competition So Sun Map was onthere and we had four of these
caravans with Sun Map all overthem touring the state, selling
(33:46):
our products and highlightingthe types of services and what
our department did.
Kate (33:51):
Now we come to three old looking wooden clocks in the
center of museum.
One of these is called the"synchronome master clock".
Kaye (34:00):
These, these three clocks are really important.
These clocks kept time inQueensland from the 1890s to to
1975.
Our department managed theseclocks, and as a cartographer, I
didn't understand why ourdepartment would be managing
time.
Uh, It's a surveying thing.
With surveying, if you aretrying to determine longitudes,
(34:22):
time is a really critical thing.
To work out where, say,Charter's Towers is in relation
to Brisbane, you need todetermine it's longitude.
And so they would use timesignals and surveying equipment
and taking measurements, usingequipment like this to work out
the longitude o o of a place.
So time was critical tosurveying.
Kate (34:43):
Longitude is the distance east or west of a reference
point.
And knowing the local time isimportant for calculating
longitude because the earthrotates once every 24 hours.
So if you know the local time intwo different places, you can
use that information tocalculate the difference in
longitudes between these twoplaces.
Kaye (35:03):
So that's why in 1894, the management of these clocks and
managing the clocks and keepingtime for Queensland was given to
our department.
1975, we went digital, so westopped.
That was the first clock, and itwas made in Queensland.
That was the second one.
And it was made overseas, andthis is the third.
And this kept time from 1938 to1975.
Kate (35:26):
So it's not the King George square tower clock that
took, took time for Queensland?
Kaye (35:31):
It was the Queensland and, and I can find out for you where
they were located.
Kate (35:35):
So how would people out in the field refer to these clocks
when they're taking thelongitude?
Kaye (35:39):
They have telegraphs electrical telegraph.
They could send time signalsthrough telegraph, and there's a
special machine which you canalmost see.
There's a tape chronograph, andwe've got two of these tape
chronographs in our collection.
The electrical signal will comeand a demark the tape.
Because they'd be taking anobservation.
They would know, at, at a timesignal, they'd know where the
(36:00):
sun was, say in Brisbane.
And then at that time they couldtake a signal using these
instruments of a star or the sunand somehow work out the, the
distance allows them todetermine longitude.
And again, in our collection,we're very fortunate, we have
the artifact, that particularitem, but we have a photograph
with that artifact actuallybeing used.
(36:21):
We have information because ofthe information that Bill Kitson
gathered doing the familyhistory of search and those
photographic collection, we havephotographs of the people who
used this equipment in the1890s, and we know lots of
information, biographicalinformation about them.
So that allows us to tellstories that we tell in the
museum, that we also tell in ourmuseum's websites and that we
tell through our social media.
Kate (36:48):
The Museum of Lands Mapping and surveying is open
open Monday to Fridays from 9:30AM to 4:00 PM excluding public
holidays and is free entry.
The museum has manyaccessibility features for
visitors, starting with being onthe ground floor for easy
access.
There are QR codes placedthroughout the exhibits, linking
to video and audio stories foreach display accompanied by
(37:10):
accessible transcripts.
Additionally, an immersivevirtual tour of the museum is
available online, providing aconvenient and inclusive way to
explore its wonders.
There is also a bunch ofservices that the department
provides to help you make themost of the mapping and
surveying data available and toassist with historical land
research.
(37:30):
They digitize original maps andmaterials, making them
accessible through thedepartment's Queensland Globe
Platform.
This allows people from anywherein the world to access over
10,000 historical MAP scans,which can be useful for family
history research.
You can also see some of theinteresting stories they find on
the department's social media,which will often feature
(37:52):
interesting tidbits.
Kaye (37:54):
And I also do presentations to history groups
and to Queensland state libraryand state archives to help
people with historical landresearch.
So that's some of the things Ido to try and help people be
aware of what what informationwe make available and what, what
resources we make available tohelp people with historical land
research.
Kate (38:17):
from pegs in the ground and spider web catchers to
Queensland's master clock anddrafters pencil extenders.
I've learned so much aboutmapping and surveying from this
museum and chatting with Kaye.
Who would've thought thatBrisvegas, once upon a time,
nurtured vineyards and pineapplefarms or that the serene Mt
Cootha Botanic Gardens onceserved as an unexpected rifle
(38:40):
range?
Certainly not me! Thanks toKaye's insights, though these
little nuggets of history havecome to light.
That's all we have today.
Remember that you can check outthe maps and exhibits talked
about today on our Instagram atRoadshowandtellpodcast.
Thanks for listening to Roadshowand Tell.
(39:01):
If you enjoyed this deep diveinto a specialty museum, make
sure you subscribe so you don'tmiss an episode.
We're a new podcast.
So if you wanna help support us,please share it with a friend
and leave a rating and review.
If you are involved with or knowof a regional or specialty
museum that should be featured,please get in touch at
roadshowandtell@gmail.com.
(39:22):
I'm your host, Kate.
Roadshow and Tell was edited andproduced on the lands of the
Gadigal people.
I acknowledge the TraditionalCustodians of the various lands
on which you may be listeningfrom, and the lands that the
museums featured in this podcastreside on.
I also acknowledge anyAboriginal or Torres Strait
(39:44):
Islander people listening tothis podcast.
I pay my respects to elderspast, present, and emerging, and
celebrate the diversity ofAboriginal peoples and their
ongoing cultures and connectionsto the lands and waters of
Australia.
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