August 6, 2023 • 39 mins
A museum of wine?!
All of our dreams have come true as we visit a museum dedicated to wine making and wine drinking. In this episode we explore The Story of Wine, a wine museum at the renowned wine farm Babylonstoren in Stellenbosh, South Africa.
Elsa, the Babylonstoren museologist, takes us through the museum and steps up our wine knowledge and tells us whether red wine should be refrigerated, the ideal wine glass for different types, and what regions can produce good wine.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elsa (00:01):
there are people that can actually taste the difference
between wine from one side ofthe hill and the other.
Corkscrew man (00:07):
Who invented the first corkscrews is lost to time
Elsa (00:11):
United Kingdom is now making sparkling wines that are
winning prizes left, right andcenter.
Kate (00:17):
Welcome to Roadshow and Tell, a podcast for people
hoping to improve their pubtrivia team score.
I'm your host, Kate, and I'llvisit museums so you can learn
things you never knew you wantedto.
When I found out there was awine museum in South Africa
during my trip, my excitementbubbled like a perfectly aged
(00:39):
champagne and I knew I had togo.
The said wine museum is calledThe Story of Wine and nestled in
the Stellenbosch wine region ofSouth Africa.
The museum is part of therenowned Babylonstoren wine
farm, or vineyard.
It's located just 40 minutesfrom the Cape Town city centre
by car, and Babylonstoren standstall as one of the largest and
(01:00):
most historic wine farms in theWestern Cape.
But it's more than just a winefarm and a museum.
There's luxury accommodation anda spa, a farm to table
restaurant, and absolutelybreathtaking gardens.
I speak with Elsa, themuseologist at Babylonstoren, on
all things wine, including whatmakes a good glass of wine, the
(01:22):
history of wine in South Africa,and what was Napoleon's
favourite bottle of wine.
So pour yourself a glass and getready to sip and learn about all
things wine.
Elsa (01:34):
So Babylonstoren is a, a farm in the Cape Winelands, and
it started in the 16 hundredswhen a lot of farms were granted
to The colonists coming fromabroad, from the Netherland
specifically, and the farm'sname comes from, we've got a
little hill on the farm, orCopi, as we would say,
Afrikaans, and it reminded thegentleman who was given this
(01:56):
farm of the Tower of Babel, andthat's why he called it
Babylonstoren coming from theDutch.
Kate (02:02):
Can you tell me how the story of wine came to be?
Elsa (02:06):
So I think at Babylonstoren tour we've been
making wine for, I would want tosay hundreds of years.
And wine is such a special partof our story at Babylonstoren
that we wanted to create a spacewhere that history and ethos is
sort of celebrated and that'show the story of wine came
about.
Rather than focus too much onthe history, we wanted to create
(02:30):
a nice, fun playful, visceralexperience for anybody, whether
they're a wine connoisseur orsomeone who just likes to have a
glass of wine at lunch.
So we wanted to create a spacethat's sort of friendly and
accessible to, to a wide varietyof people.
Kate (02:50):
Lovely.
And this focuses more on thehistory and celebration of wine
itself.
So what is the history of wine?
Elsa (02:57):
So the history of wine dates back, for millennia.
So scholars believe that thefirst wine was made in Persia or
in the Middle East, if you will.
There's a lot of discussionabout exactly where the first
wine was made, but it comes frombiblical times.
And obviously you've got beerthat originated in Egypt and
wine sort of from that same sortof area.
(03:17):
And that's sort of how, how itall started and obviously the
more they made it, the, thebetter they got at it.
And if you look at the historyand ancient texts wine features
quite prominently in a lot ofthe, the scholarly writings.
And, and it sort of developedacross the world and our wine
history in South Africa startedin 1652 when Jan van Riebeeck
(03:38):
arrived from the Netherlands ona ship and said, this spot looks
like a great place to practicesome agriculture.
Kate (03:45):
How was his wine that he made when he came over?
Elsa (03:47):
So it took him a couple years to really get going with
wine production.
So he arrived in 1652 and in hisdiary entry from, I forget the
exact date, but 1659 he was verypleased to announce that he had
finally made drinkable wine.
Now, his drinkable wine and ourversion of drinkable wine
(04:08):
probably differs quite, quite abit.
So in those days, wine probablytasted a lot more like vinegar
than, than our palates wouldallow for.
But according to him, he madesuccessful wine in 1659.
And we actually have.
I did a sort of an experimentalproject this year during our
harvest season where we madewine in the same manner that
they would have in the 17, 18hundreds.
Kate (04:31):
What did it taste like?
Elsa (04:32):
So we still have it in our in our cellar.
And the idea is that we wouldwill release it sort of to be
part of a special museum tastinglater on.
And it's, and it's interesting.
It's a quite a bit drier thanone would imagine, because in
those days they also madefortified wine where they would
add some spirits to natural wineand sweeteners and all kinds of
other interesting things.
I mean, just the way that winetastes now and the way that they
(04:55):
did many, many years ago is it'squite, quite different.
And it's, it's interesting to beable to also give our visitors a
sense for that difference.
Kate (05:02):
And what's the closest varietal that that wine would be
in today's terms?
Elsa (05:06):
So we made that wine with chenin blanc.
And chenin blanc is one of theoldest varietals well on earth
and, and that were grown inSouth Africa along with They
also planted back in the day inmuscadel.
And there's also a red varietalcalled Ponta, which was quite
popular back in the day, but itwas actually primarily chenin
(05:27):
blanc and I think semillon aswell.
They all had different Afrikaansnames.
So the semillon was called, if Iremember correctly,"Frans
druif", which means French grapein Afrikaans and then Chenin
Blanc I think was called"Groendruif", which means green grape.
Kate (05:42):
There's a little myth that involves an interesting
connection between Napoleon, anda Babylonstoren in wine.
Elsa (05:49):
So we have a bottle of Vin de Constance in the wine museum.
So Vin de Constance is a sweetwine that was made at Groote
Constantia, which is the oldestwine farm in South Africa.
It was established by Jan vanRiebeeck.
And this sweet wine was one ofthe first wines that they made
on that farm.
And it quickly became very, verypopular as our sort of wine
(06:11):
production got better andbetter.
At some point, Napoleon got hishands on a bottle and liked it
so much that it was rumouredthat, that he drank a bottle a
day until his death in 1882.
So we have a bottle of Vin deConstance in the museum dating
from 1882, the year that hepassed away.
Kate (06:28):
Oh, wow.
I wonder if that contributed tohis longevity or his death.
Elsa (06:33):
It could either or.
I think he's well preserved anyways from all the sugars in that
sweet wine.
Kate (06:38):
What are the major wine regions of South Africa?
Elsa (06:41):
It's mostly centered on the Western Cape where we are
now.
So Obviously we've got the CapeWinelands, we've got the South
coast where they make less wine.
And you've got the northern Capewhere there's also a little bit
of wine production, but it'sactually more table grape
farming.
The most famous areStellenbosch, Paarl where we are
right now, Franschoek.
Then you've got the coastalareas like Agulhas, Elim, and
(07:02):
the Hemel en aarde valley.
You've also got the warmer areaslike the Hex River Valley and
Worcester and those areas.
So there's a, yeah, there's aquite a sort of a variety in
Klein Karoo.
They also make a port style winebecause it's a lot dry and a lot
harder over there.
So we've got a quite a diversitywithin a few hundred kilometer
radius.
Kate (07:23):
What's the significance of wine paraphernalia?
Things like cork screws andbottle openers and wine glass
shapes?
Elsa (07:30):
So we actually have a whole section of the museum
dedicated to just that.
Because glassware is such a, bigpart of wine consumption.
So, so we've got, in fact twowine glass exhibits in the
museum.
The one is more historical innature, so shows all the
different sort of cut glasstechniques and different shapes
that they would've had.
And then upstairs we also havean exhibit on all the different
(07:51):
shapes of wine glass that areoptimal for tasting that a
specific varietal.
I actually never knew that Ithink there are about 20
different glass shapes that areused to taste a specific
cultivar.
And there's actually theGabriel-glas glass is the one
that is apparently the universaltasting glass that you can taste
(08:13):
all wines in.
Kate (08:14):
So tell me what are the factors that make good wine?
Elsa (08:17):
So, I think the most important thing for a good wine
is great soil.
And every cultivar has aspecific soil type that it likes
and that it thrives in.
Obviously microclimate is veryimportant.
Sunshine, the amount of rainfallit gets.
And then obviously your, yourviticulturist and your
viniculturalist they're superimportant looking after the
(08:37):
vines and the guys in the cellarthat are actually making the
wine and they're the ones thatwork their magic.
So that would be my 2 centsabout what's the best
ingredients for a great bottleof wine.
Kate (08:47):
What about soil?
Tell me about soil and how itrelates to wine.
Elsa (08:51):
So soil is, or"terroir" as the French would call it, is
probably the most importantfactor when you are growing
vines or grape vines for use inwine.
It's fascinating that on oneside of a hill and the other
side of the same hill, the soilcan be completely different and
you know, the vines that grow,they are exposed to minimally
(09:12):
different rainfalls and amountsof sunshine and the wine that
comes out of it can becompletely different.
And there are people that canactually taste the difference
between wine from one side ofthe hill and the other.
So soil is extremely, extremelyimportant in wine production and
wine making, and.
In the museum we also have aterroir exhibit where we took
(09:32):
soil samples from four differentvineyards on, on Babylonstoren
to show the diversity of soiltypes that we have within our
few kilometer radius.
And it's fascinating to see, youknow, what different soils they
actually are.
Which allows us to growdifferent cultivars because
they're each better suited forthose different soil types.
Kate (09:51):
I ask Elsa about the Wine of Origin Scheme in South
Africa.
It's loosely based on Europeansystems aimed at safeguarding
the naming rights of wine fromdesignated origins.
Elsa (10:02):
As far as my knowledge goes the Wine of Origin system
in South Africa started with in,I know in the seventies there
was a big contingent of estateowners and farmers in South
Africa that really lobbied forestates to get recognition for
the wines that were coming fromthose specific farms because we,
we had a cooperative system.
So the the KWV was sort of acountrywide wine cooperative
(10:25):
that started in 1918.
And they regulated the wholewine industry from that time
onward, which made it reallydifficult for farm owners and
winemakers on farms to reallydevelop their own wines in their
own way.
So in the seventies there was asort of a movement towards
estate wines, and I know that'ssort of where that label came
(10:48):
about.
And I stand corrected, but Ithink the wine of origin systems
is something that also came outof this need to recognize wines
that come from very specificareas within South Africa and
specific vineyards withinregions.
I think we've got a big problemin South Africa with bulk wine
that just is brought in from allkinds of different vineyards and
it unfortunately does not createa great image for our wines
(11:11):
abroad.
And the, the wine of originssystem, is a small part of the
puzzle that really tries andpromote sort of terroir driven
wine making and, so that peoplecan recognize that a wine from
Stellenbosch is different to awine from Paarl or a wine from
the coastal region or whateverthe case may be.
Kate (11:28):
When you say bulk wine before, what do you mean?
Do you mean like blends?
Elsa (11:31):
So, bulk wine is basically when, when it's normally one
that gets sourced from a wholebunch of different farms or
vineyards and get sort of madetogether.
And that is ex exported as asbulk wine because it's sort of a
cheaper way of getting your wineout.
And I mean, it's a practicethat's very, very common in
South Africa.
Mm-hmm.
But has an unfortunate sideeffect.
It's, it's all part of theeconomic chain, but it does have
(11:54):
an unfortunate side effect thatit, it creates a sort of a, a
problem pricing our wines assort of premium.
As sort of premium abroad.
Kate (12:02):
What's the most popular part of the museum?
Elsa (12:05):
Oh, very easy.
So the most popular part of thestory of wine is definitely our
aroma quiz installation.
So what we encourage visitors todo is we've got all of our
Babylonstoren wines on display,and then we have the aroma
profiles that fit with everywine underneath in the form of
an game.
So the idea is that you smellthe aroma in the glass vase.
(12:29):
Then you stick your hand into ahole that has a mystery object
in it.
So it's a sort of a tactile feelyour way around clue.
And then you guess which of thethree flavors it is.
And then you'll quickly discoverwhether you are correct or
incorrect.
Kate (12:43):
Are most people quite accurate with their guesses?
they are,
Elsa (12:45):
I must say, oh, the aroma itself is quite, in my mind,
obvious.
But it's not a given.
So we tried to make it easy, butnot too easy.
Kate (12:52):
And are most people like come through the story of wine,
big wine fans, sommelier, wineexperts, or just a casual wine
drinker?
Elsa (13:01):
I would generally think that it's mostly casual wine
drinkers and I think that's alsowhy we designed the whole space
to be a lot more friendly.
And not too technical.
Because I think wine can easilyventure into a territory that's
way too scientific and way tootechnical.
What we do have is we've got anaudio guide that gives you a
whole other layer of experienceand content so that if you are
(13:24):
really interested in, if youknow a lot about wine, it does
give you an extra layer to yourexperience.
But generally speaking, I think,you know, people just love
moving through the space andinteracting with it.
It's also really beeninteresting to see how many kids
love the wine museum.
We definitely did not design itwith children in mind.
But it's been one of the mostwonderful things to see how much
(13:46):
they've been enjoying the space.
Kate (13:48):
What's your favorite part of the story of wine?
Elsa (13:50):
My favorite part of the story of wine is in the back
we've got these peeking vatswith these little sort of
fantasy worlds inside of them.
And it's one of those thingswhere if you didn't know about
them, you probably might walk byit without taking a peek But we
invite you to sort of take thecork out and inside these little
barrels, it's a local artistfrom Cape Town who created these
(14:11):
little worlds for us.
And they all relate to wine ina, in sort of a very horizontal
way.
But they're just beautiful tolook at and the kids especially
love them very much.
Kate (14:21):
Are you able to give us a sneak peek into what sort of
upcoming projects and the futureof the story of Wine is?
Elsa (14:27):
I can tell you that the next project that we're working
on is not wine related, but it'sa living history museum that
we're working on and yeah.
All I can tell you is that youwill definitely feel as if
you've stepped into the late19th century on a working farm
in the Cape winelands.
Kate (14:48):
Should we go and visit the story of wine?
Absolutely.
Elsa (14:51):
Let's go so welcome Kate to the story of wine.
I'll just point out a few thingsbefore we actually enter the
museum.
We've got our audio guide whichis a very simple system to use.
It's basically a scan and playautomatic system.
So we've got the audio guideavailable in seven different
languages..
(15:12):
It's German, Spanish, French,Chinese, Zulu, Afrikaans, and
English.
And from there, everywhere yousee a round icon, you just scan
and you can delve into a wholeother layer of interesting wine
knowledge.
I can maybe just give a littlebit of context for the entrance.
Kate (15:31):
The entrance is an impressive archway crafted from
real vine branches and it leadsyou into a tunnel, as you move
through the 15 meter longpassage, you'll actually catch
the scent of soil and feel arefreshing coolness in the air.
Elsa (15:44):
And the idea is to really immerse visitors into the
underground world of wine beforethey emerge into this fantastic
whimsical space.
So if you follow me we'll getgoing.
Kate (15:57):
And is that birds that I can hear?
Elsa (15:59):
Mm-hmm.
and some water trickling beneaththe roots of the vine.
So the idea is that you reallyfeel like you are underground
immersed between the roots of a,of a vine.
And if you take a peak on yourleft hand side, there's some
interesting little peeking holeswith little animals and
butterflies and interestinglittle things.
So we designed the wine museumto start with the historical
(16:23):
aspects and then flow into a bitmore generalist knowledge of
wine and enjoying wine and thatthing.
So if you look on your righthand side, we have a small
exhibit of interestingantiquities related to wine,
different vessels differentstorage vessels of wine.
What's this one?
Kate (16:40):
It's a green.
It looks like a duck.
Elsa (16:43):
It looks like a duck.
And it's a, a Greek winedecanter.
It's quite, quite beautiful fromthe 20th century.
We've even have a palm wine cupfrom Congo from the 19th
century, and another examplefrom the 17th century, from
Persia, if I'm not mistaken.
And all different cultures havehad different ways of storing
(17:04):
wine.
And I'll show you it in a, inanother part of the wine museum,
we look at the different storagevessels.
And on this side we've got alittle bit more of a South
African history of wine.
So we have an old oxwagen withthe three cuttings of the three
first vines that Jan vanRiebeeck brought with him from
Europe to South Africa.
(17:25):
So
Kate (17:26):
that's all it took to start wine in this region was
three cuttings of wine?
Elsa (17:29):
Exactly.
And that, they actually survivedup in a few weeks at least.
And Wow.
So, no, it's amazing.
And the idea was for Jan vanRiebeeck to come over to Cape
town and, and establish arefreshment post.
The idea was actually not evento establish a colony at the
very beginning.
They, simply were looking for aplace to grow, a few things to
(17:50):
help the guys out that wouldsailing across over to India.
And then they just ended upstaying and making amazing wine.
Kate (17:56):
Now let's briefly touch on our friend Jan Van Riebeeck.
In 1652 when Van Riebeeckarrived in the Cape as an
administrator, his primarymission from the Dutch East
India Company was to establish aprovisioning post for passing
fleets.
It's important to note that hisinstructions did not involve
colonizing or conquering thelocal population.
(18:18):
Basically, his role was to setup a fruit and veg store for
passing ships via farming andtrade with the locals.
During his time on board theship, van Riebeeck had the idea
to produce wine as a way toprevent scurvy.
He also introduced nuts, grapes,potatoes, cereals, apples and
citrus to the Cape, foreveraltering the region's natural
(18:40):
environment.
Initially, he faced challengeswith crop failures, leading him
to bring in Dutch free settlersto cultivate the land and sell
the produce back to the DutchEast India company.
This was the beginning of a longand complex legacy of white
settlers and conflict inSouthern Africa.
While Van Riebeeck'sadministration in the Cape
colony was not marked byviolence, his legacy carries a
(19:03):
lot of complexity.
Some regard him as the foundingfather of South Africa and
associate him with Akrikaanernationalism during the Apartheid
era.
However, following the end ofApartheid in 1994, the public
holiday known as Founder's Daypreviously dedicated to Van
Riebeeck was abolishedreflecting a shift in societal
(19:24):
perspectives.
Now, back to wine.
Do you remember that story aboutNapoleon enjoying a daily bottle
of Vin de Constance in his lateryears?
Elsa (19:33):
That is the one that Napolean liked to drink.
Exactly.
I think it's the mostsignificant object in our
collection.
So really, really interestingstory, and everybody asks me if
I think the wine is stilldrinkable, it's a question, but
we're not gonna find the answerout unfortunately.
So, and over here we've got ourdisplay of different glass
(19:54):
vessels and wine glasses.
So you'll see a whole bunch ofdifferent designs from cut glass
to you know, a colored glass.
Just some interesting bits andpieces.
Some are older than others.
The oldest one in the collectionis from the 16 hundreds, which
is this thick stemmed glass.
You can see there was actuallyhand blown.
So some beautiful examples fromall over the world, and
Kate (20:15):
this one has two corks in it.
Elsa (20:17):
Yeah.
I think the idea would be thatyou actually would be able to
use it as a glass as well.
I'm not a hundred percent sure.
So you, you would
Kate (20:25):
turn it upside
Elsa (20:26):
down.
Upside down and take the corkout on the other end.
Exactly.
We're gonna move over to thisside.
So over here we talk a littlebit about the history of
agriculture in South Africa.
And wine obviously played a bigpart in that history.
We also, unfortunately, havesome darker spots in our history
of agriculture in South Africarelated to slavery and through
(20:46):
the treatment of farm workers.
Over here we have a reallyinteresting short film that we
made a bout a gentleman whosefather was part of the DOP
system.
Now, the DOP system was a way ofpaying workers with bad wine as
part of their salary, if youwill.
And it's a practice thatunfortunately contributed to a,
a widespread alk alcoholismfetal alcohol syndrome.
(21:09):
It's really a very, you know, a,a negative part of our history
in, in South Africa.
We even in the cabinet have thatcopper mug was one of the mugs
that we was used for that forthat system back in the day.
And un yeah, fortunately DOPsystem was abolished the
sixties, 1960s, if I'm notmistaken, but it took a number
(21:31):
of years for it to be completelyphased out.
And then we have paraphernalia.
So we have this fascinatingcollection of cork screws.
Kate (21:39):
There's a lot of cork screws there.
Elsa (21:40):
That's a lot of cork screws.
And we bought it from onegentleman who all from one, one
person, one collector, who waswilling to part with only a part
of his collection since it'sonly a part of his collection,
I'm gonna
Kate (21:51):
have to do an episode on a corkscrew
Elsa (21:52):
collection.
Exactly.
So super, super interesting and.
On our timeline, we show how thepatent of, corkscrews developed
over time, and it's reallyinteresting to see what little
bits of technology, became moreimportant.
Kate (22:08):
Surprisingly, the corkscrew from 1696 looks a lot
like the corkscrew we havetoday.
Exactly.
Elsa (22:14):
It does, and it basically just uses brute force to get the
cork out, whereas as time goeson, technology plays a role in
how we figured out differentways and different yeah
mechanisms to get the, the corkout of the bottle in an easier
way
Kate (22:31):
and also make it fun.
So what's your favorite corkscrew?
Elsa (22:34):
I like the little elephant.
I also like this, this one overhere, which is a actual piece of
a vine like vine wood, if youwere that's uses the handle.
And it's always interesting.
People always ask me, what isthe little brush at the end for?
So you'll see a number of thecorkscrews have brushes
incorporated, and as far as myknowledge goes, Obviously people
(22:55):
only drank wine many centuriesago that, you know, had aged
quite a bit, and that was theonly way to ensure that the wine
was drinkable.
And so the, the brush was toused twofold one once to get
the, the dust off the bottles.
so You can actually, you know,see what it was.
And the other one a lot of thebottles were sealed with wax.
So it was a way to once you'dsliced open the wax to get the
(23:18):
extra debris off.
And then over here we've got alittle installation about
different storage mechanisms.
So there's a Japanese winegourd, which is quite
interesting.
So they put wine in a, in like acalabash.
Obviously you've got otherdifferent materials.
You've got, you know, peopleaging wine in big clay amphora
s.
In, I know in Georgia that's acommon practice.
(23:41):
We at Babylonstoren we also havea few amphoras that we aged some
of our wines in.
And then we also have a displaywith all the different sizes of
all the different wine bottleseach with their, with a name.
So it's, it's one thing that Ialways forget and always like to
come back to the wine museum tocheck if I remember the correct
name for the correct sizedbottle.
Kate (23:59):
If you're wondering, the sizes start from demi, standard,
magnum,, jeroboam, methuselah,salmanazar, balthazar,
nebuchadnezzar, melchior andPrimate or Goliath at 27 litres
of wine.
Elsa (24:13):
So they all have names and these all biblical names are
coming from the Middle East.
And then over here we have aenormous map of the world where
we highlight all the areas wherewine is made or produced
including some interestingcountries like India, China, and
Japan.
They're not the biggest wineproducers, but they do make some
(24:35):
wine.
We obviously have Australia aswell.
Kate (24:38):
And is South Africa the only part of Africa that
produces wine?
Elsa (24:41):
So in the north of Africa, so we have Algeria up there as
well as part of our sort ofEuropean contingent.
So, wine really likes aMediterranean style climate, so
it's not really much elsewherein Africa that you really find
that.
So the north and the south isbasically the best, the best
parts of the continent.
Kate (25:00):
Canada as well I can see on Ontario, produces wine.
That's not very Mediterranean.
No, it's not Mediterranean.
Elsa (25:06):
However, they do make some nice ice wine.
So ice wine is when you harvestthe grapes while it's all
frozen.
Press it and make like a sweet,sweet wine.
And they're really, really,really great.
And I think with climate changewe've got some more countries to
add to, to the list or to ourmap at least.
Yeah, you know, there's a lot ofcountries that weren't making
(25:28):
wine that are now making wine,an exceptional wine at that.
So including United Kingdom isnow making sparkling wines that
are winning prizes left, rightand center.
This is the soil exhibit.
So you'll see we've got thesefour gigantic vials that we
filled with soil samples.
And it was basically like theydrill a sample out so that you
can see exactly the layers as itwould come out of the earth.
(25:50):
And it's fascinating to see howdifferent the soil is between
the different areas.
So some of them are a little bitmore elevated.
So if you look here this is theproperty where we are standing
now and then these four pointsare from the different
elevations and are differentvineyards and..
And this is our aromainstallation.
So as explained the idea withthe installation is you squeeze
the little gadget over here, yousmell and then you feel the
(26:13):
mystery object inside the hole.
And then you guess which aromayou smell.
Wonder if you wanna give it atry.
Kate (26:18):
I'm gonna give this one a try.
So I'm a big Shiraz drinker, soI'm give that one a try Chazz,
because I surely will be able toget this.
Mm-hmm.
I'll give this a smell.
Ooh.
The options are black pepper,banana, and bread, and that to
me, smells like black pepper.
I'm gonna give it a feel.
Oh, yep.
I can feel something that feelslike a pepper grinder.
(26:41):
Mm-hmm.
So yes, it went green.
Is that a noise
Elsa (26:46):
as well?
Yeah, it's a little bird.
and then you, and then you get acow if you're wrong.
Makes sense.
Kate (26:52):
Awesome.
Yeah.
Elsa (26:53):
Maybe an interesting little thing to point out, this
is a, interview with a fellowfrom who we bought the cork
screw collection.
So you just have a seat and thenthe video starts playing.
Corkscrew man (27:02):
Cork screws are to wine bottles what the sun is
to the vine.
And the wine maker is to theconnoisseur who appreciates his
or her talents.
But where did they come from andwhen did they originate?
Who invented the firstcorkscrews is lost to time, but
almost certainly was derivedfrom the manufacturer of
firearms.
Kate (27:20):
The rest is for the corkscrew museum.
Elsa (27:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, So these are all littleminiatures of interesting bits
and pieces related to wine.
So this is all the differenttrellissing methods that, that
exist in the world for trainingvines because different training
methods make it easier or, suita certain cultivar better than
others.
And another interesting thing isdifferent trellissing methods
(27:43):
are used in different parts ofthe world.
So I know for example, thatfederaled and Smart Dyson are
two uh, trellising methods thatare very popular in South
Africa.
Kate (27:52):
So the smart Dyson tressling method was not
invented by James Dyson of DysonVacuum fame.
Instead, credit goes toViticulturists, Richard Smart
and John Dyson, who areAustralian and American
respectively.
It basically uses a doublecanopy by positioning shoots
facing both upwards anddownwards.
Elsa (28:12):
We also have a lot of bush vines.
Bush vines just means you justlet it grow and do its thing
with minimal intervention Butperold was a a viticulturalist
from South Africa, so basicallyhe's the father of Pinotage.
So pinotage is the combinationof pinot noir and hermitage, and
he was the one that basicallymade that grape or made that
grape varietal.
And these are all the differentsecateurs that we have.
(28:35):
And idea of pruning more corks.
Crews.
And worms.
And worms.
So worms, basically, a worm isthe name for the spiral at the
end of a cork screw.
And then all the different typesof corks that you get.
And then this is what I wastalking about, my favorite part
of the wine museum, thesedifferent little worlds.
So if you pop open, if you pullout the cork then you have a
(28:56):
peek inside.
Ooh, there's disco ball.
This is a disco.
Yeah.
And then you, if you turn the,if you turn the lever around,
this one's called the
Kate (29:03):
effects of alcohol.
So each of these has a differentYeah.
Elsa (29:07):
A different theme.
Exactly.
And if you, if you take theaudio guide, then it'll tell you
a little story about each one.
This one is actually quitebeautiful to see
Kate (29:16):
farming from Earth to Mars.
Elsa (29:18):
Yeah.
So it's really beautiful.
Other interesting bit, this iswe have seven, obviously seven
different languages in themuseum.
And these are all poems in thoseseven different languages.
And in fact, this is Zuluinteresting enough, we had
someone who write us a poemabout wine because there wasn't
a poem that existed in Zulu whenwe started.
So you just pick one and it'llstart playing dramatically.
Kate (29:41):
We head to the upstairs level for more exhibits on wine
in general.
There's an infographic about thedifferent bunch shapes of
different varietals.
And then we arrive at a food andwine pairing infographic.
Elsa (29:53):
So we've got all of our different Babylonstoren wines,
and they all pair with differentinteresting flavors of food.
And then on the globe, you'llsee this is like a typical wine
wheel as the industry we callit.
With all the different flavorsthat you'll see.
Kate (30:09):
How do you get banana flavor in a wine?
Elsa (30:11):
It's usually quite subtle, but you will, in, for example,
in a Pinotage, sometimes youfind a green banana note.
A green banana's got like thislike this sort of a green unripe
aroma and that You'll sometimesfind in there.
And this is also one of, this isalso another favorite of our
installations.
Kate (30:30):
There is a display of super realistic looking leaves,
but they are ceramic and handpainted
Elsa (30:35):
So this exhibit is all about every single cultivar also
has a different vine leaf shape.
And these are all made by acompany called Ceramic Matters.
And this is the glasses exhibitI was talking about.
As you can see, we've got, gosh,almost, 20 glasses with each, a
different shape.
And that is best for thedifferent varietals.
Then obviously when you aretasting a wine, you're looking
(30:57):
for different color notes.
So this is just in the same waythat you would have an aroma
wheel.
You also have a color wheel forwine.
So we just made a different ainstallation for it to show that
you are looking for differentcolors when tasting a wine.
Kate (31:09):
And is this actual wine in the glasses here?
Elsa (31:11):
No, no, no, no.
This is, so we, we, we basicallycolored it with them.
So it's a resin.
And the idea is, again, this isnot meant to represent specific
wines.
It's more the colors that youwould look out for as you sort
of lift your glass up to thelight and you are looking for
different tones.
So when you describe a wine, iteither has a straw tone or, or a
orange tone or a brown tinge.
(31:32):
And that's to help you Yeah.
Figure out those explanations.
This is all about the the wholeolfactory experience of tasting
a wine and all the differentbits and pieces of your biology
that, that plays plays a role inthat process.
Kate (31:45):
So when you drink one sip of wine, you have things firing
in your nasal cavity, palate,taste buds, tongue and oral
cavity.
Elsa (31:52):
And I think what they didn't include there is
obviously there's a wholeemotional aspect that also comes
into play.
So the moment that you taste thewine, it triggers maybe, you
know, parts of your brain whereyou remember tasting, something
you've tasted before or you'venever tasted, but it reminds you
of something from a completelydifferent place.
So really interesting that theemotive part of, of tasting a
(32:13):
wine is also really important,and that also is how it builds
muscle memory for those guysthat are able to taste the
difference between one side of ahill and the other in terms of
the same cultivar.
That's, that building up of a, amemory bank of tastes is really,
really important.
Kate (32:29):
What's inside a bottle of wine.
Elsa (32:31):
We really try to sort of make the exhibits be as
accessible as possible to theeveryday person.
So not talk too much about thetechnical details, but you know,
what would the average personlike to know what is inside a
bottle of wine?
So you know how the weight andthe grapes how many grapes, how
many calories, how many glasses,that thing.
Kate (32:50):
Friends.
It might be best if you don'tknow exactly what's in a bottle
of wine, but for the curiousit's approximately 520 grapes, a
lot of water, anthocyaninsacids, including tartaric,
malic, lactic, citric, succinic,and acetic and sugar minerals
including iron, nitrogen,phosphorus, fluoride, sulfur,
(33:11):
and calcium.
So yeah, as well as fruit.
There's also some nutritiousminerals in your glass of wine.
The infographic also says thatone bottle of wine will serve
two drinkers for two plus hours,and I may want that fact peer
reviewed possibly by my peers
Elsa (33:29):
we've got a a little installation about the different
serving, ideal servingtemperatures.
Your dessert wines are served at19 degrees higher.
Yeah.
Higher temperatures than yourice wine, for example, served
ice cold.
Kate (33:41):
So this recommends that you serve light bodied red and
full body red from 13 to 17degrees Celsius.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Does this mean we should beputting reds in the fridge?
Elsa (33:50):
I, I actually do often, but especially in South Africa
where it gets extremely hot,your wine heats up so quickly if
it's, and you're standingoutside.
So I'm often partial to dunkingmine in an ice bucket if I have
to.
Kate (34:02):
So when wine experts say that red wine should be served
at room temperature, they reallymean cellar room temperature.
In warm climates like SouthAfrica and Australia, room
temperature is rarely under 20degrees Celsius, so it's a good
idea to refrigerate the wine fora little bit before opening it
to bring down its temperature soit doesn't lose its character.
Elsa (34:22):
This, how do you say this?
So, Methode Cap Classique is thetraditional name that we give in
South Africa to our sparklingwines.
Obviously we cannot call themchampagne, but they are made in
exactly the same way aschampagne is made from France.
So we did a, there's acompetition that we, that we I
think Vevue Clique did the samething where they gave industrial
(34:45):
designers, two corks and twomuselet.
Now muselet is the wirecontraption that goes on top of
the cork.
And so we gave, you know, everydesigner two of those and they
came out with a little furniturepiece for us.
Then this is really interesting.
This is an actual Shiraz vinefrom Babylonstoren that we
extracted from the ground andthe idea is to show visitors how
(35:08):
much is actually going onbeneath the soil.
If you look at where the, theground level would be, the, the
root of the vine is much longerthan the, than the top part.
So and there's lots of rocksattached to the roots as well.
Lots of rocks.
It shows also how resilient avine is.
A vine can grow through rocksand between rocks and really dig
deep to get to the water that itneeds to basically survive.
(35:29):
And then over here this is amodel of a grape, an actual
grape that we cut out of a woodball.
And the idea is to show alsoexactly what does the inside of
a grape look like, because the,the main membrane, the skin, the
juice that's on the insidewithin the flesh and the pits
inside all play a role when youmake wine.
(35:50):
And then we can pop in here.
Kate (35:52):
Ooh.
Are we inside a wine barrelright now?
Elsa (35:54):
We are inside a wine barrel.
We call this the cinema and inhere we feature a music video
that has music in it that wasonly made with wine glasses,
Kate (36:06):
Wait, so the whole song here, Using my glasses as the
instrument.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(36:27):
It's very relaxing.
It is very relaxing.
Elsa (36:29):
And I think the idea is also to end off your experience
with a, with sort of a relaxedmusic video to get you in the
mood for the tasting room.
That's what I'm looking forward
Kate (36:41):
to.
Entry to the story of wine isincluded in the admission fee to
Babylonstoren Storen, which is80 rand per person per day.
This also buys you a year-longmembership, so you can visit any
time again throughout the year.
It's open from 10:10 AM till5:00 PM and extended opening
(37:04):
hours until 5:30 PM in thesummertime.
The story of wine has greataccessibility features, and as
Elsa says, offers a multisensoryspace.
The first level is wheelchairaccessible, and there's an audio
guide in seven languages andincludes audio descriptions and
commentary.
Throughout the museum, there'salso exhibits with video footage
and captions.
There's also the aroma quiz andentrance arch, which use touch
(37:27):
and smell for you to interactwith the exhibits.
Elsa, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast today.
I've really loved learning aboutwine.
Elsa (37:36):
You are so welcome.
Thanks for visit visiting us,Kate.
Kate (37:42):
I loved the story of wine.
It was such a unique, playful,and accessible space.
And I really love that it catersto all visitors, whether you're
a tea totaler, or a wine buff,or a sommelier.
there's something for everyone.
And the best thing about thiswine museum is that it leads you
right to the entrance to thetasting room.
(38:04):
So Prost, Gesundheit, sonté,skal, na zdravie, or cheers, I'm
raising a glass to a wonderfulvisit to the Story of Wine
Museum at Babylonstoren.
Thanks for listening to Roadshowand Tell.
If you enjoyed this deep diveinto a specialty museum, make
(38:25):
sure you subscribe so you don'tmiss an episode.
We're a new podcast.
So if you wanna help support us,please share it with a friend
and leave a rating and review.
If you are involved with or knowof a regional or specialty
museum that should be featured,please get in touch at
roadshowandtell@gmail.com.
I'm your host, Kate.
(38:48):
Roadshow and Tell was edited andproduced on the lands of the
Gadigal people.
I acknowledge the TraditionalCustodians of the various lands
on which you may be listeningfrom, and the lands that the
museums featured in this podcastreside on.
I also acknowledge anyAboriginal or Torres Strait
Islander people listening tothis podcast.
I pay my respects to elderspast, present, and emerging, and
(39:11):
celebrate the diversity ofAboriginal peoples and their
ongoing cultures and connectionsto the lands and waters of
Australia.
there are people that can actually taste the difference
between wine from one side ofthe hill and the other.
Corkscrew man (00:07):
Who invented the first corkscrews is lost to time
Elsa (00:11):
United Kingdom is now making sparkling wines that are
winning prizes left, right andcenter.
Kate (00:17):
Welcome to Roadshow and Tell, a podcast for people
hoping to improve their pubtrivia team score.
I'm your host, Kate, and I'llvisit museums so you can learn
things you never knew you wantedto.
When I found out there was awine museum in South Africa
during my trip, my excitementbubbled like a perfectly aged
(00:39):
champagne and I knew I had togo.
The said wine museum is calledThe Story of Wine and nestled in
the Stellenbosch wine region ofSouth Africa.
The museum is part of therenowned Babylonstoren wine
farm, or vineyard.
It's located just 40 minutesfrom the Cape Town city centre
by car, and Babylonstoren standstall as one of the largest and
(01:00):
most historic wine farms in theWestern Cape.
But it's more than just a winefarm and a museum.
There's luxury accommodation anda spa, a farm to table
restaurant, and absolutelybreathtaking gardens.
I speak with Elsa, themuseologist at Babylonstoren, on
all things wine, including whatmakes a good glass of wine, the
(01:22):
history of wine in South Africa,and what was Napoleon's
favourite bottle of wine.
So pour yourself a glass and getready to sip and learn about all
things wine.
Elsa (01:34):
So Babylonstoren is a, a farm in the Cape Winelands, and
it started in the 16 hundredswhen a lot of farms were granted
to The colonists coming fromabroad, from the Netherland
specifically, and the farm'sname comes from, we've got a
little hill on the farm, orCopi, as we would say,
Afrikaans, and it reminded thegentleman who was given this
(01:56):
farm of the Tower of Babel, andthat's why he called it
Babylonstoren coming from theDutch.
Kate (02:02):
Can you tell me how the story of wine came to be?
Elsa (02:06):
So I think at Babylonstoren tour we've been
making wine for, I would want tosay hundreds of years.
And wine is such a special partof our story at Babylonstoren
that we wanted to create a spacewhere that history and ethos is
sort of celebrated and that'show the story of wine came
about.
Rather than focus too much onthe history, we wanted to create
(02:30):
a nice, fun playful, visceralexperience for anybody, whether
they're a wine connoisseur orsomeone who just likes to have a
glass of wine at lunch.
So we wanted to create a spacethat's sort of friendly and
accessible to, to a wide varietyof people.
Kate (02:50):
Lovely.
And this focuses more on thehistory and celebration of wine
itself.
So what is the history of wine?
Elsa (02:57):
So the history of wine dates back, for millennia.
So scholars believe that thefirst wine was made in Persia or
in the Middle East, if you will.
There's a lot of discussionabout exactly where the first
wine was made, but it comes frombiblical times.
And obviously you've got beerthat originated in Egypt and
wine sort of from that same sortof area.
(03:17):
And that's sort of how, how itall started and obviously the
more they made it, the, thebetter they got at it.
And if you look at the historyand ancient texts wine features
quite prominently in a lot ofthe, the scholarly writings.
And, and it sort of developedacross the world and our wine
history in South Africa startedin 1652 when Jan van Riebeeck
(03:38):
arrived from the Netherlands ona ship and said, this spot looks
like a great place to practicesome agriculture.
Kate (03:45):
How was his wine that he made when he came over?
Elsa (03:47):
So it took him a couple years to really get going with
wine production.
So he arrived in 1652 and in hisdiary entry from, I forget the
exact date, but 1659 he was verypleased to announce that he had
finally made drinkable wine.
Now, his drinkable wine and ourversion of drinkable wine
(04:08):
probably differs quite, quite abit.
So in those days, wine probablytasted a lot more like vinegar
than, than our palates wouldallow for.
But according to him, he madesuccessful wine in 1659.
And we actually have.
I did a sort of an experimentalproject this year during our
harvest season where we madewine in the same manner that
they would have in the 17, 18hundreds.
Kate (04:31):
What did it taste like?
Elsa (04:32):
So we still have it in our in our cellar.
And the idea is that we wouldwill release it sort of to be
part of a special museum tastinglater on.
And it's, and it's interesting.
It's a quite a bit drier thanone would imagine, because in
those days they also madefortified wine where they would
add some spirits to natural wineand sweeteners and all kinds of
other interesting things.
I mean, just the way that winetastes now and the way that they
(04:55):
did many, many years ago is it'squite, quite different.
And it's, it's interesting to beable to also give our visitors a
sense for that difference.
Kate (05:02):
And what's the closest varietal that that wine would be
in today's terms?
Elsa (05:06):
So we made that wine with chenin blanc.
And chenin blanc is one of theoldest varietals well on earth
and, and that were grown inSouth Africa along with They
also planted back in the day inmuscadel.
And there's also a red varietalcalled Ponta, which was quite
popular back in the day, but itwas actually primarily chenin
(05:27):
blanc and I think semillon aswell.
They all had different Afrikaansnames.
So the semillon was called, if Iremember correctly,"Frans
druif", which means French grapein Afrikaans and then Chenin
Blanc I think was called"Groendruif", which means green grape.
Kate (05:42):
There's a little myth that involves an interesting
connection between Napoleon, anda Babylonstoren in wine.
Elsa (05:49):
So we have a bottle of Vin de Constance in the wine museum.
So Vin de Constance is a sweetwine that was made at Groote
Constantia, which is the oldestwine farm in South Africa.
It was established by Jan vanRiebeeck.
And this sweet wine was one ofthe first wines that they made
on that farm.
And it quickly became very, verypopular as our sort of wine
(06:11):
production got better andbetter.
At some point, Napoleon got hishands on a bottle and liked it
so much that it was rumouredthat, that he drank a bottle a
day until his death in 1882.
So we have a bottle of Vin deConstance in the museum dating
from 1882, the year that hepassed away.
Kate (06:28):
Oh, wow.
I wonder if that contributed tohis longevity or his death.
Elsa (06:33):
It could either or.
I think he's well preserved anyways from all the sugars in that
sweet wine.
Kate (06:38):
What are the major wine regions of South Africa?
Elsa (06:41):
It's mostly centered on the Western Cape where we are
now.
So Obviously we've got the CapeWinelands, we've got the South
coast where they make less wine.
And you've got the northern Capewhere there's also a little bit
of wine production, but it'sactually more table grape
farming.
The most famous areStellenbosch, Paarl where we are
right now, Franschoek.
Then you've got the coastalareas like Agulhas, Elim, and
(07:02):
the Hemel en aarde valley.
You've also got the warmer areaslike the Hex River Valley and
Worcester and those areas.
So there's a, yeah, there's aquite a sort of a variety in
Klein Karoo.
They also make a port style winebecause it's a lot dry and a lot
harder over there.
So we've got a quite a diversitywithin a few hundred kilometer
radius.
Kate (07:23):
What's the significance of wine paraphernalia?
Things like cork screws andbottle openers and wine glass
shapes?
Elsa (07:30):
So we actually have a whole section of the museum
dedicated to just that.
Because glassware is such a, bigpart of wine consumption.
So, so we've got, in fact twowine glass exhibits in the
museum.
The one is more historical innature, so shows all the
different sort of cut glasstechniques and different shapes
that they would've had.
And then upstairs we also havean exhibit on all the different
(07:51):
shapes of wine glass that areoptimal for tasting that a
specific varietal.
I actually never knew that Ithink there are about 20
different glass shapes that areused to taste a specific
cultivar.
And there's actually theGabriel-glas glass is the one
that is apparently the universaltasting glass that you can taste
(08:13):
all wines in.
Kate (08:14):
So tell me what are the factors that make good wine?
Elsa (08:17):
So, I think the most important thing for a good wine
is great soil.
And every cultivar has aspecific soil type that it likes
and that it thrives in.
Obviously microclimate is veryimportant.
Sunshine, the amount of rainfallit gets.
And then obviously your, yourviticulturist and your
viniculturalist they're superimportant looking after the
(08:37):
vines and the guys in the cellarthat are actually making the
wine and they're the ones thatwork their magic.
So that would be my 2 centsabout what's the best
ingredients for a great bottleof wine.
Kate (08:47):
What about soil?
Tell me about soil and how itrelates to wine.
Elsa (08:51):
So soil is, or"terroir" as the French would call it, is
probably the most importantfactor when you are growing
vines or grape vines for use inwine.
It's fascinating that on oneside of a hill and the other
side of the same hill, the soilcan be completely different and
you know, the vines that grow,they are exposed to minimally
(09:12):
different rainfalls and amountsof sunshine and the wine that
comes out of it can becompletely different.
And there are people that canactually taste the difference
between wine from one side ofthe hill and the other.
So soil is extremely, extremelyimportant in wine production and
wine making, and.
In the museum we also have aterroir exhibit where we took
(09:32):
soil samples from four differentvineyards on, on Babylonstoren
to show the diversity of soiltypes that we have within our
few kilometer radius.
And it's fascinating to see, youknow, what different soils they
actually are.
Which allows us to growdifferent cultivars because
they're each better suited forthose different soil types.
Kate (09:51):
I ask Elsa about the Wine of Origin Scheme in South
Africa.
It's loosely based on Europeansystems aimed at safeguarding
the naming rights of wine fromdesignated origins.
Elsa (10:02):
As far as my knowledge goes the Wine of Origin system
in South Africa started with in,I know in the seventies there
was a big contingent of estateowners and farmers in South
Africa that really lobbied forestates to get recognition for
the wines that were coming fromthose specific farms because we,
we had a cooperative system.
So the the KWV was sort of acountrywide wine cooperative
(10:25):
that started in 1918.
And they regulated the wholewine industry from that time
onward, which made it reallydifficult for farm owners and
winemakers on farms to reallydevelop their own wines in their
own way.
So in the seventies there was asort of a movement towards
estate wines, and I know that'ssort of where that label came
(10:48):
about.
And I stand corrected, but Ithink the wine of origin systems
is something that also came outof this need to recognize wines
that come from very specificareas within South Africa and
specific vineyards withinregions.
I think we've got a big problemin South Africa with bulk wine
that just is brought in from allkinds of different vineyards and
it unfortunately does not createa great image for our wines
(11:11):
abroad.
And the, the wine of originssystem, is a small part of the
puzzle that really tries andpromote sort of terroir driven
wine making and, so that peoplecan recognize that a wine from
Stellenbosch is different to awine from Paarl or a wine from
the coastal region or whateverthe case may be.
Kate (11:28):
When you say bulk wine before, what do you mean?
Do you mean like blends?
Elsa (11:31):
So, bulk wine is basically when, when it's normally one
that gets sourced from a wholebunch of different farms or
vineyards and get sort of madetogether.
And that is ex exported as asbulk wine because it's sort of a
cheaper way of getting your wineout.
And I mean, it's a practicethat's very, very common in
South Africa.
Mm-hmm.
But has an unfortunate sideeffect.
It's, it's all part of theeconomic chain, but it does have
(11:54):
an unfortunate side effect thatit, it creates a sort of a, a
problem pricing our wines assort of premium.
As sort of premium abroad.
Kate (12:02):
What's the most popular part of the museum?
Elsa (12:05):
Oh, very easy.
So the most popular part of thestory of wine is definitely our
aroma quiz installation.
So what we encourage visitors todo is we've got all of our
Babylonstoren wines on display,and then we have the aroma
profiles that fit with everywine underneath in the form of
an game.
So the idea is that you smellthe aroma in the glass vase.
(12:29):
Then you stick your hand into ahole that has a mystery object
in it.
So it's a sort of a tactile feelyour way around clue.
And then you guess which of thethree flavors it is.
And then you'll quickly discoverwhether you are correct or
incorrect.
Kate (12:43):
Are most people quite accurate with their guesses?
they are,
Elsa (12:45):
I must say, oh, the aroma itself is quite, in my mind,
obvious.
But it's not a given.
So we tried to make it easy, butnot too easy.
Kate (12:52):
And are most people like come through the story of wine,
big wine fans, sommelier, wineexperts, or just a casual wine
drinker?
Elsa (13:01):
I would generally think that it's mostly casual wine
drinkers and I think that's alsowhy we designed the whole space
to be a lot more friendly.
And not too technical.
Because I think wine can easilyventure into a territory that's
way too scientific and way tootechnical.
What we do have is we've got anaudio guide that gives you a
whole other layer of experienceand content so that if you are
(13:24):
really interested in, if youknow a lot about wine, it does
give you an extra layer to yourexperience.
But generally speaking, I think,you know, people just love
moving through the space andinteracting with it.
It's also really beeninteresting to see how many kids
love the wine museum.
We definitely did not design itwith children in mind.
But it's been one of the mostwonderful things to see how much
(13:46):
they've been enjoying the space.
Kate (13:48):
What's your favorite part of the story of wine?
Elsa (13:50):
My favorite part of the story of wine is in the back
we've got these peeking vatswith these little sort of
fantasy worlds inside of them.
And it's one of those thingswhere if you didn't know about
them, you probably might walk byit without taking a peek But we
invite you to sort of take thecork out and inside these little
barrels, it's a local artistfrom Cape Town who created these
(14:11):
little worlds for us.
And they all relate to wine ina, in sort of a very horizontal
way.
But they're just beautiful tolook at and the kids especially
love them very much.
Kate (14:21):
Are you able to give us a sneak peek into what sort of
upcoming projects and the futureof the story of Wine is?
Elsa (14:27):
I can tell you that the next project that we're working
on is not wine related, but it'sa living history museum that
we're working on and yeah.
All I can tell you is that youwill definitely feel as if
you've stepped into the late19th century on a working farm
in the Cape winelands.
Kate (14:48):
Should we go and visit the story of wine?
Absolutely.
Elsa (14:51):
Let's go so welcome Kate to the story of wine.
I'll just point out a few thingsbefore we actually enter the
museum.
We've got our audio guide whichis a very simple system to use.
It's basically a scan and playautomatic system.
So we've got the audio guideavailable in seven different
languages..
(15:12):
It's German, Spanish, French,Chinese, Zulu, Afrikaans, and
English.
And from there, everywhere yousee a round icon, you just scan
and you can delve into a wholeother layer of interesting wine
knowledge.
I can maybe just give a littlebit of context for the entrance.
Kate (15:31):
The entrance is an impressive archway crafted from
real vine branches and it leadsyou into a tunnel, as you move
through the 15 meter longpassage, you'll actually catch
the scent of soil and feel arefreshing coolness in the air.
Elsa (15:44):
And the idea is to really immerse visitors into the
underground world of wine beforethey emerge into this fantastic
whimsical space.
So if you follow me we'll getgoing.
Kate (15:57):
And is that birds that I can hear?
Elsa (15:59):
Mm-hmm.
and some water trickling beneaththe roots of the vine.
So the idea is that you reallyfeel like you are underground
immersed between the roots of a,of a vine.
And if you take a peak on yourleft hand side, there's some
interesting little peeking holeswith little animals and
butterflies and interestinglittle things.
So we designed the wine museumto start with the historical
(16:23):
aspects and then flow into a bitmore generalist knowledge of
wine and enjoying wine and thatthing.
So if you look on your righthand side, we have a small
exhibit of interestingantiquities related to wine,
different vessels differentstorage vessels of wine.
What's this one?
Kate (16:40):
It's a green.
It looks like a duck.
Elsa (16:43):
It looks like a duck.
And it's a, a Greek winedecanter.
It's quite, quite beautiful fromthe 20th century.
We've even have a palm wine cupfrom Congo from the 19th
century, and another examplefrom the 17th century, from
Persia, if I'm not mistaken.
And all different cultures havehad different ways of storing
(17:04):
wine.
And I'll show you it in a, inanother part of the wine museum,
we look at the different storagevessels.
And on this side we've got alittle bit more of a South
African history of wine.
So we have an old oxwagen withthe three cuttings of the three
first vines that Jan vanRiebeeck brought with him from
Europe to South Africa.
(17:25):
So
Kate (17:26):
that's all it took to start wine in this region was
three cuttings of wine?
Elsa (17:29):
Exactly.
And that, they actually survivedup in a few weeks at least.
And Wow.
So, no, it's amazing.
And the idea was for Jan vanRiebeeck to come over to Cape
town and, and establish arefreshment post.
The idea was actually not evento establish a colony at the
very beginning.
They, simply were looking for aplace to grow, a few things to
(17:50):
help the guys out that wouldsailing across over to India.
And then they just ended upstaying and making amazing wine.
Kate (17:56):
Now let's briefly touch on our friend Jan Van Riebeeck.
In 1652 when Van Riebeeckarrived in the Cape as an
administrator, his primarymission from the Dutch East
India Company was to establish aprovisioning post for passing
fleets.
It's important to note that hisinstructions did not involve
colonizing or conquering thelocal population.
(18:18):
Basically, his role was to setup a fruit and veg store for
passing ships via farming andtrade with the locals.
During his time on board theship, van Riebeeck had the idea
to produce wine as a way toprevent scurvy.
He also introduced nuts, grapes,potatoes, cereals, apples and
citrus to the Cape, foreveraltering the region's natural
(18:40):
environment.
Initially, he faced challengeswith crop failures, leading him
to bring in Dutch free settlersto cultivate the land and sell
the produce back to the DutchEast India company.
This was the beginning of a longand complex legacy of white
settlers and conflict inSouthern Africa.
While Van Riebeeck'sadministration in the Cape
colony was not marked byviolence, his legacy carries a
(19:03):
lot of complexity.
Some regard him as the foundingfather of South Africa and
associate him with Akrikaanernationalism during the Apartheid
era.
However, following the end ofApartheid in 1994, the public
holiday known as Founder's Daypreviously dedicated to Van
Riebeeck was abolishedreflecting a shift in societal
(19:24):
perspectives.
Now, back to wine.
Do you remember that story aboutNapoleon enjoying a daily bottle
of Vin de Constance in his lateryears?
Elsa (19:33):
That is the one that Napolean liked to drink.
Exactly.
I think it's the mostsignificant object in our
collection.
So really, really interestingstory, and everybody asks me if
I think the wine is stilldrinkable, it's a question, but
we're not gonna find the answerout unfortunately.
So, and over here we've got ourdisplay of different glass
(19:54):
vessels and wine glasses.
So you'll see a whole bunch ofdifferent designs from cut glass
to you know, a colored glass.
Just some interesting bits andpieces.
Some are older than others.
The oldest one in the collectionis from the 16 hundreds, which
is this thick stemmed glass.
You can see there was actuallyhand blown.
So some beautiful examples fromall over the world, and
Kate (20:15):
this one has two corks in it.
Elsa (20:17):
Yeah.
I think the idea would be thatyou actually would be able to
use it as a glass as well.
I'm not a hundred percent sure.
So you, you would
Kate (20:25):
turn it upside
Elsa (20:26):
down.
Upside down and take the corkout on the other end.
Exactly.
We're gonna move over to thisside.
So over here we talk a littlebit about the history of
agriculture in South Africa.
And wine obviously played a bigpart in that history.
We also, unfortunately, havesome darker spots in our history
of agriculture in South Africarelated to slavery and through
(20:46):
the treatment of farm workers.
Over here we have a reallyinteresting short film that we
made a bout a gentleman whosefather was part of the DOP
system.
Now, the DOP system was a way ofpaying workers with bad wine as
part of their salary, if youwill.
And it's a practice thatunfortunately contributed to a,
a widespread alk alcoholismfetal alcohol syndrome.
(21:09):
It's really a very, you know, a,a negative part of our history
in, in South Africa.
We even in the cabinet have thatcopper mug was one of the mugs
that we was used for that forthat system back in the day.
And un yeah, fortunately DOPsystem was abolished the
sixties, 1960s, if I'm notmistaken, but it took a number
(21:31):
of years for it to be completelyphased out.
And then we have paraphernalia.
So we have this fascinatingcollection of cork screws.
Kate (21:39):
There's a lot of cork screws there.
Elsa (21:40):
That's a lot of cork screws.
And we bought it from onegentleman who all from one, one
person, one collector, who waswilling to part with only a part
of his collection since it'sonly a part of his collection,
I'm gonna
Kate (21:51):
have to do an episode on a corkscrew
Elsa (21:52):
collection.
Exactly.
So super, super interesting and.
On our timeline, we show how thepatent of, corkscrews developed
over time, and it's reallyinteresting to see what little
bits of technology, became moreimportant.
Kate (22:08):
Surprisingly, the corkscrew from 1696 looks a lot
like the corkscrew we havetoday.
Exactly.
Elsa (22:14):
It does, and it basically just uses brute force to get the
cork out, whereas as time goeson, technology plays a role in
how we figured out differentways and different yeah
mechanisms to get the, the corkout of the bottle in an easier
way
Kate (22:31):
and also make it fun.
So what's your favorite corkscrew?
Elsa (22:34):
I like the little elephant.
I also like this, this one overhere, which is a actual piece of
a vine like vine wood, if youwere that's uses the handle.
And it's always interesting.
People always ask me, what isthe little brush at the end for?
So you'll see a number of thecorkscrews have brushes
incorporated, and as far as myknowledge goes, Obviously people
(22:55):
only drank wine many centuriesago that, you know, had aged
quite a bit, and that was theonly way to ensure that the wine
was drinkable.
And so the, the brush was toused twofold one once to get
the, the dust off the bottles.
so You can actually, you know,see what it was.
And the other one a lot of thebottles were sealed with wax.
So it was a way to once you'dsliced open the wax to get the
(23:18):
extra debris off.
And then over here we've got alittle installation about
different storage mechanisms.
So there's a Japanese winegourd, which is quite
interesting.
So they put wine in a, in like acalabash.
Obviously you've got otherdifferent materials.
You've got, you know, peopleaging wine in big clay amphora
s.
In, I know in Georgia that's acommon practice.
(23:41):
We at Babylonstoren we also havea few amphoras that we aged some
of our wines in.
And then we also have a displaywith all the different sizes of
all the different wine bottleseach with their, with a name.
So it's, it's one thing that Ialways forget and always like to
come back to the wine museum tocheck if I remember the correct
name for the correct sizedbottle.
Kate (23:59):
If you're wondering, the sizes start from demi, standard,
magnum,, jeroboam, methuselah,salmanazar, balthazar,
nebuchadnezzar, melchior andPrimate or Goliath at 27 litres
of wine.
Elsa (24:13):
So they all have names and these all biblical names are
coming from the Middle East.
And then over here we have aenormous map of the world where
we highlight all the areas wherewine is made or produced
including some interestingcountries like India, China, and
Japan.
They're not the biggest wineproducers, but they do make some
(24:35):
wine.
We obviously have Australia aswell.
Kate (24:38):
And is South Africa the only part of Africa that
produces wine?
Elsa (24:41):
So in the north of Africa, so we have Algeria up there as
well as part of our sort ofEuropean contingent.
So, wine really likes aMediterranean style climate, so
it's not really much elsewherein Africa that you really find
that.
So the north and the south isbasically the best, the best
parts of the continent.
Kate (25:00):
Canada as well I can see on Ontario, produces wine.
That's not very Mediterranean.
No, it's not Mediterranean.
Elsa (25:06):
However, they do make some nice ice wine.
So ice wine is when you harvestthe grapes while it's all
frozen.
Press it and make like a sweet,sweet wine.
And they're really, really,really great.
And I think with climate changewe've got some more countries to
add to, to the list or to ourmap at least.
Yeah, you know, there's a lot ofcountries that weren't making
(25:28):
wine that are now making wine,an exceptional wine at that.
So including United Kingdom isnow making sparkling wines that
are winning prizes left, rightand center.
This is the soil exhibit.
So you'll see we've got thesefour gigantic vials that we
filled with soil samples.
And it was basically like theydrill a sample out so that you
can see exactly the layers as itwould come out of the earth.
(25:50):
And it's fascinating to see howdifferent the soil is between
the different areas.
So some of them are a little bitmore elevated.
So if you look here this is theproperty where we are standing
now and then these four pointsare from the different
elevations and are differentvineyards and..
And this is our aromainstallation.
So as explained the idea withthe installation is you squeeze
the little gadget over here, yousmell and then you feel the
(26:13):
mystery object inside the hole.
And then you guess which aromayou smell.
Wonder if you wanna give it atry.
Kate (26:18):
I'm gonna give this one a try.
So I'm a big Shiraz drinker, soI'm give that one a try Chazz,
because I surely will be able toget this.
Mm-hmm.
I'll give this a smell.
Ooh.
The options are black pepper,banana, and bread, and that to
me, smells like black pepper.
I'm gonna give it a feel.
Oh, yep.
I can feel something that feelslike a pepper grinder.
(26:41):
Mm-hmm.
So yes, it went green.
Is that a noise
Elsa (26:46):
as well?
Yeah, it's a little bird.
and then you, and then you get acow if you're wrong.
Makes sense.
Kate (26:52):
Awesome.
Yeah.
Elsa (26:53):
Maybe an interesting little thing to point out, this
is a, interview with a fellowfrom who we bought the cork
screw collection.
So you just have a seat and thenthe video starts playing.
Corkscrew man (27:02):
Cork screws are to wine bottles what the sun is
to the vine.
And the wine maker is to theconnoisseur who appreciates his
or her talents.
But where did they come from andwhen did they originate?
Who invented the firstcorkscrews is lost to time, but
almost certainly was derivedfrom the manufacturer of
firearms.
Kate (27:20):
The rest is for the corkscrew museum.
Elsa (27:22):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, So these are all littleminiatures of interesting bits
and pieces related to wine.
So this is all the differenttrellissing methods that, that
exist in the world for trainingvines because different training
methods make it easier or, suita certain cultivar better than
others.
And another interesting thing isdifferent trellissing methods
(27:43):
are used in different parts ofthe world.
So I know for example, thatfederaled and Smart Dyson are
two uh, trellising methods thatare very popular in South
Africa.
Kate (27:52):
So the smart Dyson tressling method was not
invented by James Dyson of DysonVacuum fame.
Instead, credit goes toViticulturists, Richard Smart
and John Dyson, who areAustralian and American
respectively.
It basically uses a doublecanopy by positioning shoots
facing both upwards anddownwards.
Elsa (28:12):
We also have a lot of bush vines.
Bush vines just means you justlet it grow and do its thing
with minimal intervention Butperold was a a viticulturalist
from South Africa, so basicallyhe's the father of Pinotage.
So pinotage is the combinationof pinot noir and hermitage, and
he was the one that basicallymade that grape or made that
grape varietal.
And these are all the differentsecateurs that we have.
(28:35):
And idea of pruning more corks.
Crews.
And worms.
And worms.
So worms, basically, a worm isthe name for the spiral at the
end of a cork screw.
And then all the different typesof corks that you get.
And then this is what I wastalking about, my favorite part
of the wine museum, thesedifferent little worlds.
So if you pop open, if you pullout the cork then you have a
(28:56):
peek inside.
Ooh, there's disco ball.
This is a disco.
Yeah.
And then you, if you turn the,if you turn the lever around,
this one's called the
Kate (29:03):
effects of alcohol.
So each of these has a differentYeah.
Elsa (29:07):
A different theme.
Exactly.
And if you, if you take theaudio guide, then it'll tell you
a little story about each one.
This one is actually quitebeautiful to see
Kate (29:16):
farming from Earth to Mars.
Elsa (29:18):
Yeah.
So it's really beautiful.
Other interesting bit, this iswe have seven, obviously seven
different languages in themuseum.
And these are all poems in thoseseven different languages.
And in fact, this is Zuluinteresting enough, we had
someone who write us a poemabout wine because there wasn't
a poem that existed in Zulu whenwe started.
So you just pick one and it'llstart playing dramatically.
Kate (29:41):
We head to the upstairs level for more exhibits on wine
in general.
There's an infographic about thedifferent bunch shapes of
different varietals.
And then we arrive at a food andwine pairing infographic.
Elsa (29:53):
So we've got all of our different Babylonstoren wines,
and they all pair with differentinteresting flavors of food.
And then on the globe, you'llsee this is like a typical wine
wheel as the industry we callit.
With all the different flavorsthat you'll see.
Kate (30:09):
How do you get banana flavor in a wine?
Elsa (30:11):
It's usually quite subtle, but you will, in, for example,
in a Pinotage, sometimes youfind a green banana note.
A green banana's got like thislike this sort of a green unripe
aroma and that You'll sometimesfind in there.
And this is also one of, this isalso another favorite of our
installations.
Kate (30:30):
There is a display of super realistic looking leaves,
but they are ceramic and handpainted
Elsa (30:35):
So this exhibit is all about every single cultivar also
has a different vine leaf shape.
And these are all made by acompany called Ceramic Matters.
And this is the glasses exhibitI was talking about.
As you can see, we've got, gosh,almost, 20 glasses with each, a
different shape.
And that is best for thedifferent varietals.
Then obviously when you aretasting a wine, you're looking
(30:57):
for different color notes.
So this is just in the same waythat you would have an aroma
wheel.
You also have a color wheel forwine.
So we just made a different ainstallation for it to show that
you are looking for differentcolors when tasting a wine.
Kate (31:09):
And is this actual wine in the glasses here?
Elsa (31:11):
No, no, no, no.
This is, so we, we, we basicallycolored it with them.
So it's a resin.
And the idea is, again, this isnot meant to represent specific
wines.
It's more the colors that youwould look out for as you sort
of lift your glass up to thelight and you are looking for
different tones.
So when you describe a wine, iteither has a straw tone or, or a
orange tone or a brown tinge.
(31:32):
And that's to help you Yeah.
Figure out those explanations.
This is all about the the wholeolfactory experience of tasting
a wine and all the differentbits and pieces of your biology
that, that plays plays a role inthat process.
Kate (31:45):
So when you drink one sip of wine, you have things firing
in your nasal cavity, palate,taste buds, tongue and oral
cavity.
Elsa (31:52):
And I think what they didn't include there is
obviously there's a wholeemotional aspect that also comes
into play.
So the moment that you taste thewine, it triggers maybe, you
know, parts of your brain whereyou remember tasting, something
you've tasted before or you'venever tasted, but it reminds you
of something from a completelydifferent place.
So really interesting that theemotive part of, of tasting a
(32:13):
wine is also really important,and that also is how it builds
muscle memory for those guysthat are able to taste the
difference between one side of ahill and the other in terms of
the same cultivar.
That's, that building up of a, amemory bank of tastes is really,
really important.
Kate (32:29):
What's inside a bottle of wine.
Elsa (32:31):
We really try to sort of make the exhibits be as
accessible as possible to theeveryday person.
So not talk too much about thetechnical details, but you know,
what would the average personlike to know what is inside a
bottle of wine?
So you know how the weight andthe grapes how many grapes, how
many calories, how many glasses,that thing.
Kate (32:50):
Friends.
It might be best if you don'tknow exactly what's in a bottle
of wine, but for the curiousit's approximately 520 grapes, a
lot of water, anthocyaninsacids, including tartaric,
malic, lactic, citric, succinic,and acetic and sugar minerals
including iron, nitrogen,phosphorus, fluoride, sulfur,
(33:11):
and calcium.
So yeah, as well as fruit.
There's also some nutritiousminerals in your glass of wine.
The infographic also says thatone bottle of wine will serve
two drinkers for two plus hours,and I may want that fact peer
reviewed possibly by my peers
Elsa (33:29):
we've got a a little installation about the different
serving, ideal servingtemperatures.
Your dessert wines are served at19 degrees higher.
Yeah.
Higher temperatures than yourice wine, for example, served
ice cold.
Kate (33:41):
So this recommends that you serve light bodied red and
full body red from 13 to 17degrees Celsius.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Does this mean we should beputting reds in the fridge?
Elsa (33:50):
I, I actually do often, but especially in South Africa
where it gets extremely hot,your wine heats up so quickly if
it's, and you're standingoutside.
So I'm often partial to dunkingmine in an ice bucket if I have
to.
Kate (34:02):
So when wine experts say that red wine should be served
at room temperature, they reallymean cellar room temperature.
In warm climates like SouthAfrica and Australia, room
temperature is rarely under 20degrees Celsius, so it's a good
idea to refrigerate the wine fora little bit before opening it
to bring down its temperature soit doesn't lose its character.
Elsa (34:22):
This, how do you say this?
So, Methode Cap Classique is thetraditional name that we give in
South Africa to our sparklingwines.
Obviously we cannot call themchampagne, but they are made in
exactly the same way aschampagne is made from France.
So we did a, there's acompetition that we, that we I
think Vevue Clique did the samething where they gave industrial
(34:45):
designers, two corks and twomuselet.
Now muselet is the wirecontraption that goes on top of
the cork.
And so we gave, you know, everydesigner two of those and they
came out with a little furniturepiece for us.
Then this is really interesting.
This is an actual Shiraz vinefrom Babylonstoren that we
extracted from the ground andthe idea is to show visitors how
(35:08):
much is actually going onbeneath the soil.
If you look at where the, theground level would be, the, the
root of the vine is much longerthan the, than the top part.
So and there's lots of rocksattached to the roots as well.
Lots of rocks.
It shows also how resilient avine is.
A vine can grow through rocksand between rocks and really dig
deep to get to the water that itneeds to basically survive.
(35:29):
And then over here this is amodel of a grape, an actual
grape that we cut out of a woodball.
And the idea is to show alsoexactly what does the inside of
a grape look like, because the,the main membrane, the skin, the
juice that's on the insidewithin the flesh and the pits
inside all play a role when youmake wine.
(35:50):
And then we can pop in here.
Kate (35:52):
Ooh.
Are we inside a wine barrelright now?
Elsa (35:54):
We are inside a wine barrel.
We call this the cinema and inhere we feature a music video
that has music in it that wasonly made with wine glasses,
Kate (36:06):
Wait, so the whole song here, Using my glasses as the
instrument.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(36:27):
It's very relaxing.
It is very relaxing.
Elsa (36:29):
And I think the idea is also to end off your experience
with a, with sort of a relaxedmusic video to get you in the
mood for the tasting room.
That's what I'm looking forward
Kate (36:41):
to.
Entry to the story of wine isincluded in the admission fee to
Babylonstoren Storen, which is80 rand per person per day.
This also buys you a year-longmembership, so you can visit any
time again throughout the year.
It's open from 10:10 AM till5:00 PM and extended opening
(37:04):
hours until 5:30 PM in thesummertime.
The story of wine has greataccessibility features, and as
Elsa says, offers a multisensoryspace.
The first level is wheelchairaccessible, and there's an audio
guide in seven languages andincludes audio descriptions and
commentary.
Throughout the museum, there'salso exhibits with video footage
and captions.
There's also the aroma quiz andentrance arch, which use touch
(37:27):
and smell for you to interactwith the exhibits.
Elsa, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast today.
I've really loved learning aboutwine.
Elsa (37:36):
You are so welcome.
Thanks for visit visiting us,Kate.
Kate (37:42):
I loved the story of wine.
It was such a unique, playful,and accessible space.
And I really love that it catersto all visitors, whether you're
a tea totaler, or a wine buff,or a sommelier.
there's something for everyone.
And the best thing about thiswine museum is that it leads you
right to the entrance to thetasting room.
(38:04):
So Prost, Gesundheit, sonté,skal, na zdravie, or cheers, I'm
raising a glass to a wonderfulvisit to the Story of Wine
Museum at Babylonstoren.
Thanks for listening to Roadshowand Tell.
If you enjoyed this deep diveinto a specialty museum, make
(38:25):
sure you subscribe so you don'tmiss an episode.
We're a new podcast.
So if you wanna help support us,please share it with a friend
and leave a rating and review.
If you are involved with or knowof a regional or specialty
museum that should be featured,please get in touch at
roadshowandtell@gmail.com.
I'm your host, Kate.
(38:48):
Roadshow and Tell was edited andproduced on the lands of the
Gadigal people.
I acknowledge the TraditionalCustodians of the various lands
on which you may be listeningfrom, and the lands that the
museums featured in this podcastreside on.
I also acknowledge anyAboriginal or Torres Strait
Islander people listening tothis podcast.
I pay my respects to elderspast, present, and emerging, and
(39:11):
celebrate the diversity ofAboriginal peoples and their
ongoing cultures and connectionsto the lands and waters of
Australia.
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