August 10, 2021 • 40 mins
He was charismatic, highly intelligent and extremely resourceful. But he also had a dark side. Ellie Shoja joins America's Podcaster, Kurt Caceres, to share her journey as a young girl living under the reign of a certified International Con Man. Her and family were always on the run, from city to city, country to country, hideout to hideout. Changing names, identities, countries of origin and trying to keep one story straight as opposed to another. This was no life for a young 12 year old girl, and the trauma it's done to her the rest of her life is one she has worked daily to overcome. Having spent months in a refugee camp after her father was finally caught and arrested, her mother found a way to escape and they were able to flee to the sovereignity of the United States of America. Author, motivational TEDx speaker and life coach, "Shoja" is here to share her true story right out of a Hollywood movie.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin.
Okay, this is it. We'redoing it. Yeah, so Joe,
Okay, so this is it.This is Sister Search, It's will
(00:20):
have been waiting for right here.I'm going well, first of all,
this is won't call the podcast asAmerican podcaster Kirkus Saris coming at you.
But I'm excited because I got myboy in here. We haven't heard his
name, or his voice, orhis laugh or his wise cracks seven months
and like eight months because he wasscared to lose his cave during COVID and
finally he got the vaccine. Sohe's here at full effects. He's locked
(00:44):
in the studio with us, andhe's he's still worried, but he's he's
he's okay, we're all healthy.We're good. But it's good to have
you back. We got ANTHONYZ.What's so this soup? And yes,
he has not been here a longtime when we miss and he's he's family,
(01:06):
he's a brother, and he's alwaysamazing on the show. He's always
very intelligent, very funny. Hisgood things to say. One of our
favorite co hosts sitting next to him, the voice here every week, we
got here, we got Tony Frost. I'm so glad after here. But
(01:26):
you know, and you're saying he'snot scared, but I did cough in
the kitchen and he almost ran afterbad. Yeah, he got nervous,
but I didn't run out. Ijust I just looked at him. Funny.
I gave it that look, thatlook, that COVID look. Everyone's
got the COVID look like it's theysnapped their head all of a sudden.
Any one of those even has thesniffles. No, no, I don't,
(01:49):
and sneezes don't bother me either,because it's usually allergies. It's the
cough if if if if if youknow, some bitches cough for next.
Don't believe me. I look athim and I go, list man,
you got the COVID. They getso pissed like it kind of backing off,
or even worse than that, isif they're giving you a look like
are you gonna give us COVID,which in the case I would be like,
listen, you fucker, Then why'dyou get the vaccine? You know
(02:10):
what I mean? Are you nervous? Well, I mean the guy,
that's why you got your That's whatwe keep saying is that if you've gotten
it, you shouldn't have to worry. It's that's got to stop, you
know what I mean, or orhonestly, we should the world is done.
I'm serious. If if this isnot gonna work now where you're gonna
still have people who are stressed out. And I see it. That's why
(02:34):
I'm I'm really worried for the futureof this country. Well, you shouldn't
be worried about the future because wehave here today. We are guests.
She is somebody who's balancing out thefuture of this planet with what she does,
what she's been through, what she'sgonna do in this world. That's
why she's our guest today because she'sdoing amazing things, sending out positive enage,
(02:55):
she helping people across the planet,and it's only gonna get better.
She has been a coast for twoshows. For two shows. She calls
herself the modern day RUMI oh wow, so exactly. So um. That's
(03:19):
part of the reason I love theAnthony's here too, because these Persians and
our guests as well as Persians,so they can you know, kind of
relate on certain things. But forthose of you who don't know. Rumi
is a thirteenth century Persian poet livedfrom September thirtieth, twelve o seven December
seventeenth, twelve seventy three. Hisinfluence transcends national borders and ethnic divisions Iranians,
(03:42):
Tajiks, Turks, Greeks, Kashtoons, and other Central Asian Muslims.
Described as the most popular and bestselling poet in the United States. So
those are big words for our gueststoday. We got Ellie show Joe what's
up? Elie? As we like, I was just like to say,
so joyous what I call it?And so tell us about those are big
(04:14):
shoes too, yeah to fill.But I love your confidence. Confidence.
If you're the modern day roomy,you gotta be confident about it. And
so she is. And she isbecause she's a writer. So she's she's
written. Um, she wrote abook called the Thirteenth Planet, which we're
gonna get into later. She's alsocreated your heart knows the way oracle cards?
(04:35):
Did you bring them? I did, bring, okay, and and
show them she could show them thecamera. By the way, I'm sporting
this sab it bags. Oh lookat that. I love that and I
just sab it as a friend andI love him. Let's show him on
camera against everybody can check it out, give him. I can't. I
(04:55):
can't actually sport one of his paintings. So I buy his bags. The
Persian artists. Persians are great.So you know what, I have a
question first, like before you startwith Persian was considered Persian for people who
just don't have a clue. Iran, the country of Iran, at some
(05:16):
point was the Persian Empire, andit expanded from all the way from Turkey
to India. It was huge.And then the Alexander, the Alexander the
Great came and said, I thatshit, I'm gonna go take it over.
And then he took a bunch ofit. Yeah, and then the
(05:36):
Persian Empire started falling apart exactly.And that's because a lot of people always
have that question. They don't knowthe difference between Persian Iranian. It's the
same, it's the same thing.It's just different. It's just a difference
reference in time. Yes, youknow, I usually say I'm Iranian,
but you know, I mean thePersian Empire doesn't exist anymore, so technically
(05:59):
you know we're Iran. In Sheis the modern day room We almost made
this show political again planet. Shecreated a group of oracle cards card called
your Heart Knows the Way, becauseit does. Are you? Are you
a psychic? I'm a writer.So we're gonna do that right now.
Then since we're on So, Iwanted her to do their cards with you,
(06:23):
because when she didn't with me,I pulled the most, like crazy,
I pulled the first and last cardin the death and they were her
and her partner were like blown away. They were like speechless, but why
what does that mean? Pulled thecard that that really? So this deck
(06:44):
is actually fired by Roomy. Thisdeck is inspired by the Roomy quote that
says your task is not to seekfor love, but to seek and remove
all the barriers against it. Andthey're fifty two cards. Each one of
them talks to some thing that we'redoing that's keeping that love from flowing through
our hearts. They're really beautifully illustrated. But I mean that did you do
(07:09):
that? Yeah? We created thestack and it's my writing on it.
And then our mutual friend Chris didall the artwork, right. Yeah,
Crystal Lorco, who's a fantastic artist, hit it all of the paintings.
We were lucky enough to be ableto use an amazing pain So so what
did that mean when I pulled thefirst and last card in the deck?
Um, well, the card thatyou pulled spoke to you because it was
(07:31):
like something that we're doing that wasYeah, that was like keeping that flow
of love through your heart and umyeah, the cards are very honest.
Yeah, can we do one fromthat for the Persian brother over here?
We can? But I'm still confusedat least scared. Can I ask you
a question? This is important foryou to like tell the audience, So
(07:54):
what inspired you? Like? We'removing fast to a fast pace. Wuldn't
even say a lot like whip outyour cards? I mean I mean before
I can't even look you're whipping out. We don't even know where. You
don't know how we do it outand show him and be like how you
feel? We don't even know whatthe genesis the genesis of these cards are.
Like, I mean, he's like, show them your cards. I'm
(08:16):
like, what are you talking?I don't even room you don't you don't
ask questions, just let room be. Yeah, like, what was the
genesis of doing cards like we do? A um fire ceremony, uh at
a friend's house with like three othergirls. And it's four in the morning.
(08:41):
Everyone's passed out. What's a fireceremony. It's it's like, yeah,
it's like a full moon and there'sthe there's a full moon, there's
there's a there's a fire going.There's set intentions and you want clarity or
whatever pretty much. And so soit's like four, four in the morning,
(09:03):
everyone's passed out. I'm sitting outside, bundled up in December, staring
into the fire, completely confused asto what the hell am I supposed to
do. So literally a week later, I get fired from my NBC job,
which was interesting because they were literallydoing a project that I had that
(09:26):
was my concept, you know.So I'm like, okay, interesting,
So, um so, I guessthat's not it, right I had.
So I started waking up earlier andmeditating and doing yoga in the morning,
and during those early meditations, Istarted having ideas for things to write down,
(09:50):
actually writings that are at the coreof this book. And um so
I started your Heart Knows the Way, so I so I literally, oh,
you can't leave that. So well, the concepts, so the concepts
I started writing, and and itwas so I'm doing a job that's completely
(10:13):
bizarre and outside of what I whatwere you selling? I mean, you've
been very cryptic about was it likecocaine or something? I mean cocaine,
I was I was selling like cookware, yea cocaine, And um, I
decide, I'm like, I'm gonnagive up my apartment. My lease was
(10:35):
up on my car. I'm like, I'm just gonna give up my car,
put my stuff in storage, andI go up to Canada for seven
months to work on my novel,which then was which is the book that
just got published. And while Iwas in Canada for seven months working on
my novel, I started an Instagramaccount called Piece Unleashed just to share some
(10:58):
of this stuff that was coming up, the spiritual stuff that was coming out.
And that account very quickly started buildingmomentum, and people started reaching out
to me asking inner peace questions andum. And so every day I'm sharing
the stuff with people, and everyday I'm answering questions on Instagram lives,
(11:20):
and every day I'm you know,so it turned just a little bit,
just momentum built up, and itturned into a business. On its own.
So I got one on one clientsthrough doing that. You mean to
to consult to help almost therapists.Well, let me ask you is do
you have a religious background? Isthere a religious background or is it just
(11:43):
based on a spiritual foundation of justbecause I find that, um, A
religion is more of a constriction,right, well not necessarily. I find
that you can find this obviously isspiritual path through through people that are very
religious. I don't. I don'tfind a stricting at all. I just
I mean, religion is a pathwayinto spirituality. Spirituality is a connection to
(12:05):
that spirit. So I grew upextremely unconventionally, Um, Anthony, I
my dad was an international comment.I grew up moving around. Okay,
so we were going to get intothat because now we're just we're going,
oh so her dad was Persian.I mean, yeah, we're gonna get
to that because I don't want tolike go all over this place. Let's
finish with the cards, yea realquick, and we're gon we're gonna get
(12:28):
to it. Because I do.I knew his reaction would be Cohn.
Man. I knew it. Iknew that man wasn't surprised. It was
like oh another Persian. So,so was Roomy channeling through you on these
or were you just coming up withthese sayings yourself? No, these are
these aren't my sayings. But Ithink I feel a very deep connection to
(12:52):
Roomy because, um I feel likewe're both connected to that same source of
knowledge information. And I think overall, then the concept came to you these
cards. What is the overall ideaof the cards? What are they supposed
to accomplish? Yeah? Yeah,so there's fifty two cards, and each
one of them speaks to something thatwe are doing. That's keeping that heart
(13:16):
closed, that's keeping you from flowingthe love, that is that is,
you know, the natural state ofbeing. And um so it the cards
are very honest, some of themare very just like, you know,
like they hit you on the heada little bit, you know. Um,
but they all are coming from thisplace of complete unconditional love and worthiness,
(13:41):
and and they the purpose of themis to show you where you are
withholding love and then how to howto unclog it. Yeah. When I
when I pulled the cards, Idon't remember exactly what it was at pull,
but I remember it hit me.I think I even start crying.
You did. Yeah, it hitme hard and they were blown away about
the two cards I picked. Yea. Now again, there wasn't the beer
(14:03):
we were drinking because you had afew. Because beer makes me cry nobody.
So for those of you listening,your heart knows the way oracle cards
even alone. The beauty of thesecards there they're gold outline that have gold
outlining. Wow, and they areand the saying So let's let's give a
(14:26):
little example to everybody here. Anthony, now guide him on how Yeah,
so you can. You can.If there's a question, you can ask
it, you know, to yourself. You don't have to say it out
loud, but you can also saywhat general message do you have for me?
And then pick a card that Soam I going to just ask one
question to yourself? Right to himself? Does any questions? I shouldn't say
(14:50):
it out loud, you can ifyou want. I don't know. Yeah,
let's send out loud for your life. Yeah, I mean, why
am I I saw it? Verseto marriage, you better not pull a
gay card. Well, it's youcan get married to two guys that are
(15:11):
twined. Oh my god, ohmy gosh. I mean these days you
can get married if you can exposeyour heart to the camera right here.
Okay, so I'll do with you. Okay, so you tell me,
Anthony, if this is if thisfor those before, she says before,
(15:33):
for those of you that didn't aren'twatching, that are listening, it's a
it's a beautiful young woman sitting downwhich she looks probably maybe naked, but
she's got a red crossed on theum. She's got a red blanket around
her and she's next to this likewhite hot Moroccan looking tower, right Tony,
(15:56):
these are we'll look you get thesecards that I hear and he's talking
about spiritual he's like trading cards.These are only soft points. So here
(16:17):
we go. Expose your heart.If you feel raw and exposed, you
can receive my love, for itis in vulnerability that our hearts connect.
Do you hide your true emotions fromothers? Is it hard for you to
be vulnerable? The scard reminds youthat love cannot flow into a heart that
is not exposed. Your true strengthlies and your ability to feel your emotions.
(16:44):
For too long, you've you've numbedyourself by keeping your feelings away.
You've ignored your needs and pushed asidewhat you want. You've justified hiding yourself
from others, and while in hiding, you've felt alone and misunderstood. Perhaps
you even thought that others don't deserveyour love. But in withholding love from
(17:06):
them, you withhold it from yourself. You've forgotten that your vulnerability is a
gift to yourself. First, today, remove your mask and set aside your
shame. Expose your beautiful heart,and allow yourself to feel the emotions that
pass through you. Like a curiouschild, observed the depth of these emotions
(17:27):
and trace their stirrings inside your body. This is how you open the gateways
to your heart, and in doingso, you feel the love that flows
to you from every open heart thatsurrounds you. So I'm gonna get my
perspective. No, I don't wantyou, because I mean his his perspective
(17:49):
is garbage, because he's shaking hishead. Yeah, because you know what,
let me, I have never beenaccused, And if he says this,
I'm going to break this microphone.Alt of not being vulnerability is one
of my great assets. I don'thide. Usually people say, oh my.
Usually when people say that is afact, dude, that is a
(18:11):
known fact about a ka Kamal Anthony. I have never ever been not vulnerable.
I've been too vulnerable. I've beenI've been accused of being too vulnerable.
Like you're open, you know whatI mean? I mean, that's
bullshit. That's the thing. Youhide behind a lot of things, and
that's that's what it is, Okay, Master, Master Kurt, you don't
(18:32):
know shit. I mean, it'snot it's not. It's unbelievable you say
I'm your brother because you don't asin your head, because that was pretty
spot on. No, you're you'reyou're assessing this horrifically. I do not
hide behind anything. I'm actually,oh too much of it. I've heard
this one hundred times from people inmy life, in my work, in
everything. You're too open, youtell too much, You're way are you
(18:53):
kidding me? You're talking to There'sa difference between being open to the world
but being opened to love. Iknow. Here's the thing, though,
I that's why I asked that question, is because I have shut myself down
to certain parts of love because I'vebeen burned many times. Yeah, but
(19:15):
that doesn't mean I'm not vulnerable,meaning I still but I don't want like
part of me is just like Idon't want to deal with that, like
I don't want to. I don't. I'm not gonna go down that road
again if I if I because it'sI'm happy and I really am, like
if I go down that road again, and what has happened to me in
some of my relationships one specifically andmy marriage specifically, I'm not gonna make
(19:36):
it, curt Okay, I'm andI don't need to be because when I
say I'm not gonna make it,I need to be here from my kids.
So when they said, oh,you should open yourself to heart so
somebody else can crush it again,No, no, I don't need it.
I don't. So that card broughtup some didn't being anything. I'm
very clear where I stand. I'mvery happy, So we're gonna go too.
(19:57):
She did have the A jacket on. I like I got that because
that look, the card is veryvalid as to where I'm at. But
I'm trying to ask why for me, I don't even know why I asked
a question because I know that partof myself. Yes, I already know
that. And for those of youlistening, we're gonna do another one later
(20:19):
for Tony. But we're gonna we'regonna move on. Um too, this
is amazing. So we want toget her beginnings before we get into what
she's been doing lately and the restof her life. Now, she her
beginnings was, as you guys hearda second ago. Well, she either
her dad was either a Persian orhe was a con man. I mean,
(20:40):
so let's hear so, I knowPersians are always called I mean,
that's why they find some you cancall it. I mean, Persians are
usually in the import export, yes, yes, yeah, but I mean
I don't know what I mean.The funny thing is is that I've never
heard of a Persian referred to theirfather as a con man. So let's
hear that, just detail, becauseyou know, she was there's, she's.
(21:03):
These are words that she's used.She was beaten. She had to
use different names, different countries,different languages, different Alsona's different identities.
She was in a refugee camp inrefugee camps in Germany. She immigrated to
the United States of fifteen, butthe time by the time she was twelve,
she already had suffered like severe mentaland psychic psychic psychic disorders due to
(21:27):
the lifestyle that she was experiencing course, so tell us about exactly he wasn't,
just like, well, what exactlywas he doing? So we can
really understand where you came from.I mean, I don't know everything he
(21:47):
was doing, but I know somethings he did. For example, in
Turkey, he was um, hewasn't what he was like a civil engineer
in Turkey without anything. Well,he didn't have any education. You know,
he didn't have an that's a comment, like he didn't have a degree.
And he didn't have a degree.I seven a number one. Yes,
(22:11):
I've been fucking highway over that kindof so so, and then he
builds a highway and it's all crookedcountry. For his country, he was
in sanitation, I mean a sanitarium. He built um a lot of buildings
(22:33):
like apartments. Oh oh, that'svernacular. He's like a vernacular architect,
okay, and as um. Andthen before anything was completed, he would
sell those units to like dozens ofpeople. So that was one of the
things. Would he piss people offbecause they'd find out later maybe the buildings
(22:53):
weren't up to do they have code? Well, I don't think it ever
really got there. I don't knowif things were actually being built or they
were just in Mexico. He wouldhe would, he would, he would
sell like a blueprint, say,correct, I have this creative apartment.
Yeah, and you get an earlyJimmy, Yeah, you buy now for
(23:15):
ten thousand. Yeah. And yousee he takes him to like a site
that's not even his building, right, and he probably show him beating and
then the person goes there, goestwenty thousand dollars for that, and then
so they give him his money andthen he pulls a Bernie made off and
leaves. Right. But so wewere I don't know like all of the
(23:37):
different things he did. That wasone of them. One of them.
There was a guy I actually wrotea script about this and and I put
this Cohn in there. But aguy had all these like Persian rugs that
um, he wanted to bring andsell and then he basically somehow got him
to like send him to his address, and he would basically swind people out
(24:00):
of their life savings and then ohmy god, and then disappear their lives.
Um. So we were in inTurkey and he was doing this stuff,
and that was Turkey. That wasall no, no, no,
he never know. This was beforehe got to the United States and this
is all before twelve. Yeah,so he's in Turkey, he's doing all
it. First of all, hewas in Iran doing all the stuff.
(24:21):
We had to flee. We endedup in Turkey, and then he's,
oh, he did so many badshit leave the country. Oh that's bad.
And because in Iran mostly the peoplethat do swindle can still at least
live there. This guy was wayguy was like fucking swindling on crack,
you know. He was like,he's like, let's get out of here.
We go. So we end upin Turkey, and in Turkey he
(24:44):
does all sorts of stuff and um, and then we have to leave in
the middle of the night. AndI was just gonna ask, so would
they just wake up in the middleof nine and state we gotta go,
like from a film that we wrote, And that's how it started Pilot.
Yeah. See that's yeah, that'syeah. So I'm nine years old.
We leave Turkey and we've been livingthere for five years, and we end
(25:07):
up we have Yugoslavian passports. We'recoming to America, you know, and
uh, you have Yugoslavian passports,so you went from to America. He's
so in Germany and Frankfurt Airport.Just so it happens the guy who's like
(25:29):
checking us in to our flight toAmerica happens to be Yugoslavian. Oh my
god, and he starts talking tomy dad in the language which he doesn't
understand. That's like a scene froma movie when you're sweating, like yeah.
So then they pull us out ofline and they take us down to
(25:51):
the dungeon portion of the airport.It's like these narrow gray walls and chairs,
you know, lined up against thewall and um looks oddly like a
gray hospital kind of a thing.And so they take my parents in for
questioning. And from that point onwe are not allowed to speak Turkish,
(26:12):
which is the only language we speak, because the backstory is that, Okay,
so we're not these Yugoslavian people.We are these other people from Iran
and uh and we are on therun because my dad's a writer and he's
a political writer. They pulled apolitical call. Yeah, so so we're
(26:33):
political, right, they were lastminute, tell you a new story and
you'd have to remember the whole thing. So right this week we're this you
remember it? Well, Yeah,it's like lying was our lives. But
but it was mostly don't say anything. Yeah, that was that was basically,
don't speak Turkish. And I remembervery Turkish. Turkish was the only
language I spoke fluently at this time. Do you speak it still? No?
(26:56):
I don't. So when I wasnine and we ended up in um
in Germany, we were forbidden tospeak Turkish. And we're political refugees.
So we are now in refugee camps. For a year and a half,
we're in refugee camps. And whilewe are in refugee camps, there are
Turkish people all around us. AndI remember this family. They had two
(27:21):
teenage boys and I'm nine, minesisters six, and they would talk behind
our backs, but in front ofus in Turkish, like they would just
talk smack about us, right,I'm we understood every single We never responded,
and because we weren't allowed, becausewe weren't allowed, like yeah,
(27:44):
and I remember the only thing,just one incident. They were saying some
really nasty stuff and I just rememberme and my sister look up at each
other and then look back down tolike whatever we were playing with. And
to this day, I don't understandhow a nine year old and a six
year old can do that. That'sthat's like, that's crazy. I'm surprised
(28:06):
that you're actually a grounded person.Now that's taking your years of work,
which we're going to get into,but that's crazy for a kid that young.
And that's the Those are the yearswhere a person becomes that's where are
we're programmed. Those years from fromlike four ten twelve, that's when we're
programmed as human being. So thosethings you experienced were insane. So when
you say a refugee camp, isit like are you locked in? Like
(28:30):
is there barbed wire offenses? SoGermany is interesting. Their refugee camps are
old buildings that are repurposed and someof the and depending on what the old
building used to be, you havedifferent um types of accommodation. So for
instance, some building was a prison, so you're not gonna have it's going
(28:52):
to look very different. Yeah,Then if the old building was a school,
and you know, they convert theclassrooms into multiple rooms, you know,
but each family gets a room.The best was when the buildings were
hotels in the past. At leastyou have your own bathroom. And then
how did you get food? Theybrought it to you. Yeah. So
(29:14):
what I remember is that once aweek every family. First of all,
every family is in a room.Um, you know, if you're four
of you, six of you,whatever, every family gets one room.
And um, every family gets onebox of food every week. So you
go down. Yeah, so sofor the whole week and uh. And
(29:36):
then there's a common area usually andin the common area that's where you pick
up your box of food. Andthere's also a list that goes up on
the wall once a week, Likeon a Tuesday night, there might be
a list. This list comes upand if your name is on there,
like really early the next morning,you are ready packed down stairs and ready
(30:00):
to go to the next thing.And you don't know what the next thing
is some town in Germany that they'regoing to place you in. Right,
you can be deported, you canbe moved to a different location, you
can be taken somewhere for questioning,like, you don't know what. You're
just living what it is every moment, week by weekend. But they did,
the Germans did. Listen, man, let's let's take a moment.
(30:22):
Wait, she's not even in herforties, so this isn't that long ago.
No, but let's get to theGermans. What the world is like.
No, but but let's get propsto the Germans. They took a
lot of people in that they havea huge Turkish population because they yeah,
they took a lot of Germans.They're they're good people. The Germans there.
Now, please, While she wasexperiencing that, we're over here just
(30:45):
chilling, chilling, seriously, playingin the creed, seriously like this still
happened in the p and she's overthere in a freaking refugee camp from day
to day, doesn't know what's goingto happen. They got to ration their
food, understand, and then howdid you guys eventually move from that place?
So we um, So we're inrefugee camps for a year and a
(31:07):
half, which is basically we movedeight, nine, ten times during the
year. A kid for a kid, dude, the kids kid like,
that's one of the most American kidswho move off and say they've been traumatized.
That's nothing compared to this. Soyou can move to a yeah,
hine ten times yeah in one year. And so then eventually we get refugee
(31:30):
status because they buy my dad's storythat I'm a political writer from Iran.
And you can't send us back becausethey will hang me. Blah blah blah.
So we get refugee stads, weget refugee passports. We're able to
rent an apartment and live somewhere somewhatmore stably. And then the Turkish government
(31:52):
tracks down my dad in Germany andthey put him in jail. And so
my dad in jail in Germany andthe Turkish government wants him shipped to Turkey
to answer for his crimes. Andmeanwhile, my dad's like, I'm not
that person. I don't know whothat person is, not me, you
(32:13):
know. So then he's in jailfor thirteen months and at the end of
which he successfully proved that he isnot himself. So he was you didn't
see him. He successfully proved hewas not himself. Correct, that's a
continent of himself and successfully proved youwere not yourself and was released from tim
But he proved that he's not himhe did, Yeah, and then they
(32:35):
paid him money for every day hespending. He didn't see him for thirteen
months. Yeah, we visited hima couple of times. He pulled a
lot of stunts in there. Hewent on a hunger strike, lost like
a ton of way. He triedto kill himself, but he knew that
he wasn't gonna die. Well,this guy's the real McCoy. So speaking
(32:58):
of killing themselves whatever, let's talkabout now fast forward to you went through
a lot of mental and psychic psyche. Your psyche was blown away from this.
Yeah, you had some bouts withdepression or yeah. Yeah. So
by the time I was eleven,I had severe nervous ticks. UM,
(33:20):
I was angry a lot. UM, I was suicidal. I regularly fantasized
about taking my life. I wasangry. I was really really angry and
um, and I decided there's noGod. Because of God that allows children
to suffer the way I had cannotexist. Uh. And so we had
(33:43):
a huge falling out and and thatwas kind of the normal internal state for
me into my twenties. But you'reforced to grow up fast when you go
through God. We found we figuredit out later, but you know,
through life you start to finally figureit out. But she was forced to
have her mortality in front of herand like, what's real and what's not?
(34:05):
So then what brought you to thento the states of fifteen? What
how did that transpire. So weUh so when I was eleven, we
um and where in Germany my dadis released from prison. And while he
was in jail, towards the endof it, my my mom worked,
who was like a battered woman essentially, she worked up the courage to file
(34:29):
for divorce and and she that takesa lot of courage. It took a
lot of courage from her for her. Yeah, battered by him, by
him, he was he was abusivein every way he was. Were you
were you physically abused because you saidabsolutely? I thought it was from like
refugee camps. No, no,no, no, my dad was enough.
Yeah, so he was physically abusive, emotionally, psychologically he was paranoid.
(34:53):
He uh he was just a reallybrilliant person. Yeah, dreamely charismatic,
so smart and so destructive like everywherehe went. Yeah. So,
um, so my mom works upthe courage to file for divorce and she's
(35:14):
granted divorce. So then he comesout of jail and um and the government
wants him to pay ch health supportbecause you know, she has custody of
us, And he turns around andsays, no, they're not my kids.
I shouldn't have to pay for them, So that for me was like
(35:35):
for money in Germany. In Germany, well, do you know the government
is trying to get at him too, you know, so you got to
keep that in mind. Honestly,he's a charlatan. Yeah, wants to
bow down to the government that doesn'tgive them the proper respect they deserve as
a person. But go ahead.Yeah, so your mom grabs Union comany
United States. Yeah, so itso we do DNA testing first to we
(36:00):
are his kids, and then hecalls one day and says, I got
this letter saying they are my kids. I'm coming to get them. And
he lived about like an hour away, and my mom is frantic at this
point, and we always had acouple of bags packed and in a corner.
So she grabs the bags and she'slike, you have five minutes to
go through the apartment, grab whateveryou want, and she calls a cab
(36:22):
and we get in the cabin.We go to her co workers house.
Turkish people, super nice people,and we lived there for two weeks while
she arranged us for our flights backto Iran. So then we end up
in Iran. Suddenly we have allthis family. My mom's the youngest of
ten. We had no idea ofcousins. We have never I didn't know
(36:45):
I had cousins. I didn't knowI have uncles and aunts. And it's
really weird. We just grew upin isolation in this weird way, and
all of a sudden, there's allthese people who are related to us,
you know, in Iran, andthere's all this support and um and it
and it took it took a littlebit of time to just like find be
(37:07):
okay with that level of kind ofstability. Yeah and um. About a
dozen years before that, my momhad applied for a green card through her
brother who lives here, and whilewe were in Iran, the green cart
came through. Oh wow, shegot the lottery. Yeah and and so
(37:28):
wow, so we had And thatwas a whole anther ordeal. Because her
divorce was not recognized in Iran,she was not allowed to take us out
of the country, so she hadto go to court for two years to
be able to because of the gotus out of the kind of very sexy
system. And during those whole twoyears, while you guys in irund your
(37:49):
dad didn't find you guys there,No not that I locked up, he
was out of tram down when hewasn't going back there there. And here's
the crazy thing, Like my mom's, uh my dad's siblings had taken my
mom and my dad's identities. They'dtaken their identities and created documents with their
(38:16):
own pictures and done all this legalstuff. So when my mom got to
Iran, she was charged with allthis like crime that she had to like
she had to go to court.And that's crazy, Ellie, Ellie's shady
shady Showja is Elie Sojo? Yourreal name? Yes? Solo? Is
(38:44):
that her real name? Does sheeven know her true identity? When you
grew up with this lifestyle? Imean, how many people do love to
tell it? Growing up as achild the daughter of a con man,
an international khan man, flee fromcity to city, town to town,
country to country. Does she evenknow her own truth? She's just getting
(39:07):
started. That's Ellie so Jum.I guess I'm on a roll call the
podcast This is America's podcaster Kirkus Sarasmy co host Anthony is Easy Tony Frost.
We know you're gonna want to comeback to here. The second part
of this one, Part two,with Eli so John roll Call the podcast,
talking about her life on the run, her identity, and how it's
(39:30):
affected her as an adult. Seehim part two, good Night You You I
Ladies and gentlemen, please take yourseats. The show is about to begin.
Okay, this is it. We'redoing it. Yeah, so Joe,
Okay, so this is it.This is Sister Search, It's will
(00:20):
have been waiting for right here.I'm going well, first of all,
this is won't call the podcast asAmerican podcaster Kirkus Saris coming at you.
But I'm excited because I got myboy in here. We haven't heard his
name, or his voice, orhis laugh or his wise cracks seven months
and like eight months because he wasscared to lose his cave during COVID and
finally he got the vaccine. Sohe's here at full effects. He's locked
(00:44):
in the studio with us, andhe's he's still worried, but he's he's
he's okay, we're all healthy.We're good. But it's good to have
you back. We got ANTHONYZ.What's so this soup? And yes,
he has not been here a longtime when we miss and he's he's family,
(01:06):
he's a brother, and he's alwaysamazing on the show. He's always
very intelligent, very funny. Hisgood things to say. One of our
favorite co hosts sitting next to him, the voice here every week, we
got here, we got Tony Frost. I'm so glad after here. But
(01:26):
you know, and you're saying he'snot scared, but I did cough in
the kitchen and he almost ran afterbad. Yeah, he got nervous,
but I didn't run out. Ijust I just looked at him. Funny.
I gave it that look, thatlook, that COVID look. Everyone's
got the COVID look like it's theysnapped their head all of a sudden.
Any one of those even has thesniffles. No, no, I don't,
(01:49):
and sneezes don't bother me either,because it's usually allergies. It's the
cough if if if if if youknow, some bitches cough for next.
Don't believe me. I look athim and I go, list man,
you got the COVID. They getso pissed like it kind of backing off,
or even worse than that, isif they're giving you a look like
are you gonna give us COVID,which in the case I would be like,
listen, you fucker, Then why'dyou get the vaccine? You know
(02:10):
what I mean? Are you nervous? Well, I mean the guy,
that's why you got your That's whatwe keep saying is that if you've gotten
it, you shouldn't have to worry. It's that's got to stop, you
know what I mean, or orhonestly, we should the world is done.
I'm serious. If if this isnot gonna work now where you're gonna
still have people who are stressed out. And I see it. That's why
(02:34):
I'm I'm really worried for the futureof this country. Well, you shouldn't
be worried about the future because wehave here today. We are guests.
She is somebody who's balancing out thefuture of this planet with what she does,
what she's been through, what she'sgonna do in this world. That's
why she's our guest today because she'sdoing amazing things, sending out positive enage,
(02:55):
she helping people across the planet,and it's only gonna get better.
She has been a coast for twoshows. For two shows. She calls
herself the modern day RUMI oh wow, so exactly. So um. That's
(03:19):
part of the reason I love theAnthony's here too, because these Persians and
our guests as well as Persians,so they can you know, kind of
relate on certain things. But forthose of you who don't know. Rumi
is a thirteenth century Persian poet livedfrom September thirtieth, twelve o seven December
seventeenth, twelve seventy three. Hisinfluence transcends national borders and ethnic divisions Iranians,
(03:42):
Tajiks, Turks, Greeks, Kashtoons, and other Central Asian Muslims.
Described as the most popular and bestselling poet in the United States. So
those are big words for our gueststoday. We got Ellie show Joe what's
up? Elie? As we like, I was just like to say,
so joyous what I call it?And so tell us about those are big
(04:14):
shoes too, yeah to fill.But I love your confidence. Confidence.
If you're the modern day roomy,you gotta be confident about it. And
so she is. And she isbecause she's a writer. So she's she's
written. Um, she wrote abook called the Thirteenth Planet, which we're
gonna get into later. She's alsocreated your heart knows the way oracle cards?
(04:35):
Did you bring them? I did, bring, okay, and and
show them she could show them thecamera. By the way, I'm sporting
this sab it bags. Oh lookat that. I love that and I
just sab it as a friend andI love him. Let's show him on
camera against everybody can check it out, give him. I can't. I
(04:55):
can't actually sport one of his paintings. So I buy his bags. The
Persian artists. Persians are great.So you know what, I have a
question first, like before you startwith Persian was considered Persian for people who
just don't have a clue. Iran, the country of Iran, at some
(05:16):
point was the Persian Empire, andit expanded from all the way from Turkey
to India. It was huge.And then the Alexander, the Alexander the
Great came and said, I thatshit, I'm gonna go take it over.
And then he took a bunch ofit. Yeah, and then the
(05:36):
Persian Empire started falling apart exactly.And that's because a lot of people always
have that question. They don't knowthe difference between Persian Iranian. It's the
same, it's the same thing.It's just different. It's just a difference
reference in time. Yes, youknow, I usually say I'm Iranian,
but you know, I mean thePersian Empire doesn't exist anymore, so technically
(05:59):
you know we're Iran. In Sheis the modern day room We almost made
this show political again planet. Shecreated a group of oracle cards card called
your Heart Knows the Way, becauseit does. Are you? Are you
a psychic? I'm a writer.So we're gonna do that right now.
Then since we're on So, Iwanted her to do their cards with you,
(06:23):
because when she didn't with me,I pulled the most, like crazy,
I pulled the first and last cardin the death and they were her
and her partner were like blown away. They were like speechless, but why
what does that mean? Pulled thecard that that really? So this deck
(06:44):
is actually fired by Roomy. Thisdeck is inspired by the Roomy quote that
says your task is not to seekfor love, but to seek and remove
all the barriers against it. Andthey're fifty two cards. Each one of
them talks to some thing that we'redoing that's keeping that love from flowing through
our hearts. They're really beautifully illustrated. But I mean that did you do
(07:09):
that? Yeah? We created thestack and it's my writing on it.
And then our mutual friend Chris didall the artwork, right. Yeah,
Crystal Lorco, who's a fantastic artist, hit it all of the paintings.
We were lucky enough to be ableto use an amazing pain So so what
did that mean when I pulled thefirst and last card in the deck?
Um, well, the card thatyou pulled spoke to you because it was
(07:31):
like something that we're doing that wasYeah, that was like keeping that flow
of love through your heart and umyeah, the cards are very honest.
Yeah, can we do one fromthat for the Persian brother over here?
We can? But I'm still confusedat least scared. Can I ask you
a question? This is important foryou to like tell the audience, So
(07:54):
what inspired you? Like? We'removing fast to a fast pace. Wuldn't
even say a lot like whip outyour cards? I mean I mean before
I can't even look you're whipping out. We don't even know where. You
don't know how we do it outand show him and be like how you
feel? We don't even know whatthe genesis the genesis of these cards are.
Like, I mean, he's like, show them your cards. I'm
(08:16):
like, what are you talking?I don't even room you don't you don't
ask questions, just let room be. Yeah, like, what was the
genesis of doing cards like we do? A um fire ceremony, uh at
a friend's house with like three othergirls. And it's four in the morning.
(08:41):
Everyone's passed out. What's a fireceremony. It's it's like, yeah,
it's like a full moon and there'sthe there's a full moon, there's
there's a there's a fire going.There's set intentions and you want clarity or
whatever pretty much. And so soit's like four, four in the morning,
(09:03):
everyone's passed out. I'm sitting outside, bundled up in December, staring
into the fire, completely confused asto what the hell am I supposed to
do. So literally a week later, I get fired from my NBC job,
which was interesting because they were literallydoing a project that I had that
(09:26):
was my concept, you know.So I'm like, okay, interesting,
So, um so, I guessthat's not it, right I had.
So I started waking up earlier andmeditating and doing yoga in the morning,
and during those early meditations, Istarted having ideas for things to write down,
(09:50):
actually writings that are at the coreof this book. And um so
I started your Heart Knows the Way, so I so I literally, oh,
you can't leave that. So well, the concepts, so the concepts
I started writing, and and itwas so I'm doing a job that's completely
(10:13):
bizarre and outside of what I whatwere you selling? I mean, you've
been very cryptic about was it likecocaine or something? I mean cocaine,
I was I was selling like cookware, yea cocaine, And um, I
decide, I'm like, I'm gonnagive up my apartment. My lease was
(10:35):
up on my car. I'm like, I'm just gonna give up my car,
put my stuff in storage, andI go up to Canada for seven
months to work on my novel,which then was which is the book that
just got published. And while Iwas in Canada for seven months working on
my novel, I started an Instagramaccount called Piece Unleashed just to share some
(10:58):
of this stuff that was coming up, the spiritual stuff that was coming out.
And that account very quickly started buildingmomentum, and people started reaching out
to me asking inner peace questions andum. And so every day I'm sharing
the stuff with people, and everyday I'm answering questions on Instagram lives,
(11:20):
and every day I'm you know,so it turned just a little bit,
just momentum built up, and itturned into a business. On its own.
So I got one on one clientsthrough doing that. You mean to
to consult to help almost therapists.Well, let me ask you is do
you have a religious background? Isthere a religious background or is it just
(11:43):
based on a spiritual foundation of justbecause I find that, um, A
religion is more of a constriction,right, well not necessarily. I find
that you can find this obviously isspiritual path through through people that are very
religious. I don't. I don'tfind a stricting at all. I just
I mean, religion is a pathwayinto spirituality. Spirituality is a connection to
(12:05):
that spirit. So I grew upextremely unconventionally, Um, Anthony, I
my dad was an international comment.I grew up moving around. Okay,
so we were going to get intothat because now we're just we're going,
oh so her dad was Persian.I mean, yeah, we're gonna get
to that because I don't want tolike go all over this place. Let's
finish with the cards, yea realquick, and we're gon we're gonna get
(12:28):
to it. Because I do.I knew his reaction would be Cohn.
Man. I knew it. Iknew that man wasn't surprised. It was
like oh another Persian. So,so was Roomy channeling through you on these
or were you just coming up withthese sayings yourself? No, these are
these aren't my sayings. But Ithink I feel a very deep connection to
(12:52):
Roomy because, um I feel likewe're both connected to that same source of
knowledge information. And I think overall, then the concept came to you these
cards. What is the overall ideaof the cards? What are they supposed
to accomplish? Yeah? Yeah,so there's fifty two cards, and each
one of them speaks to something thatwe are doing. That's keeping that heart
(13:16):
closed, that's keeping you from flowingthe love, that is that is,
you know, the natural state ofbeing. And um so it the cards
are very honest, some of themare very just like, you know,
like they hit you on the heada little bit, you know. Um,
but they all are coming from thisplace of complete unconditional love and worthiness,
(13:41):
and and they the purpose of themis to show you where you are
withholding love and then how to howto unclog it. Yeah. When I
when I pulled the cards, Idon't remember exactly what it was at pull,
but I remember it hit me.I think I even start crying.
You did. Yeah, it hitme hard and they were blown away about
the two cards I picked. Yea. Now again, there wasn't the beer
(14:03):
we were drinking because you had afew. Because beer makes me cry nobody.
So for those of you listening,your heart knows the way oracle cards
even alone. The beauty of thesecards there they're gold outline that have gold
outlining. Wow, and they areand the saying So let's let's give a
(14:26):
little example to everybody here. Anthony, now guide him on how Yeah,
so you can. You can.If there's a question, you can ask
it, you know, to yourself. You don't have to say it out
loud, but you can also saywhat general message do you have for me?
And then pick a card that Soam I going to just ask one
question to yourself? Right to himself? Does any questions? I shouldn't say
(14:50):
it out loud, you can ifyou want. I don't know. Yeah,
let's send out loud for your life. Yeah, I mean, why
am I I saw it? Verseto marriage, you better not pull a
gay card. Well, it's youcan get married to two guys that are
(15:11):
twined. Oh my god, ohmy gosh. I mean these days you
can get married if you can exposeyour heart to the camera right here.
Okay, so I'll do with you. Okay, so you tell me,
Anthony, if this is if thisfor those before, she says before,
(15:33):
for those of you that didn't aren'twatching, that are listening, it's a
it's a beautiful young woman sitting downwhich she looks probably maybe naked, but
she's got a red crossed on theum. She's got a red blanket around
her and she's next to this likewhite hot Moroccan looking tower, right Tony,
(15:56):
these are we'll look you get thesecards that I hear and he's talking
about spiritual he's like trading cards.These are only soft points. So here
(16:17):
we go. Expose your heart.If you feel raw and exposed, you
can receive my love, for itis in vulnerability that our hearts connect.
Do you hide your true emotions fromothers? Is it hard for you to
be vulnerable? The scard reminds youthat love cannot flow into a heart that
is not exposed. Your true strengthlies and your ability to feel your emotions.
(16:44):
For too long, you've you've numbedyourself by keeping your feelings away.
You've ignored your needs and pushed asidewhat you want. You've justified hiding yourself
from others, and while in hiding, you've felt alone and misunderstood. Perhaps
you even thought that others don't deserveyour love. But in withholding love from
(17:06):
them, you withhold it from yourself. You've forgotten that your vulnerability is a
gift to yourself. First, today, remove your mask and set aside your
shame. Expose your beautiful heart,and allow yourself to feel the emotions that
pass through you. Like a curiouschild, observed the depth of these emotions
(17:27):
and trace their stirrings inside your body. This is how you open the gateways
to your heart, and in doingso, you feel the love that flows
to you from every open heart thatsurrounds you. So I'm gonna get my
perspective. No, I don't wantyou, because I mean his his perspective
(17:49):
is garbage, because he's shaking hishead. Yeah, because you know what,
let me, I have never beenaccused, And if he says this,
I'm going to break this microphone.Alt of not being vulnerability is one
of my great assets. I don'thide. Usually people say, oh my.
Usually when people say that is afact, dude, that is a
(18:11):
known fact about a ka Kamal Anthony. I have never ever been not vulnerable.
I've been too vulnerable. I've beenI've been accused of being too vulnerable.
Like you're open, you know whatI mean? I mean, that's
bullshit. That's the thing. Youhide behind a lot of things, and
that's that's what it is, Okay, Master, Master Kurt, you don't
(18:32):
know shit. I mean, it'snot it's not. It's unbelievable you say
I'm your brother because you don't asin your head, because that was pretty
spot on. No, you're you'reyou're assessing this horrifically. I do not
hide behind anything. I'm actually,oh too much of it. I've heard
this one hundred times from people inmy life, in my work, in
everything. You're too open, youtell too much, You're way are you
(18:53):
kidding me? You're talking to There'sa difference between being open to the world
but being opened to love. Iknow. Here's the thing, though,
I that's why I asked that question, is because I have shut myself down
to certain parts of love because I'vebeen burned many times. Yeah, but
(19:15):
that doesn't mean I'm not vulnerable,meaning I still but I don't want like
part of me is just like Idon't want to deal with that, like
I don't want to. I don't. I'm not gonna go down that road
again if I if I because it'sI'm happy and I really am, like
if I go down that road again, and what has happened to me in
some of my relationships one specifically andmy marriage specifically, I'm not gonna make
(19:36):
it, curt Okay, I'm andI don't need to be because when I
say I'm not gonna make it,I need to be here from my kids.
So when they said, oh,you should open yourself to heart so
somebody else can crush it again,No, no, I don't need it.
I don't. So that card broughtup some didn't being anything. I'm
very clear where I stand. I'mvery happy, So we're gonna go too.
(19:57):
She did have the A jacket on. I like I got that because
that look, the card is veryvalid as to where I'm at. But
I'm trying to ask why for me, I don't even know why I asked
a question because I know that partof myself. Yes, I already know
that. And for those of youlistening, we're gonna do another one later
(20:19):
for Tony. But we're gonna we'regonna move on. Um too, this
is amazing. So we want toget her beginnings before we get into what
she's been doing lately and the restof her life. Now, she her
beginnings was, as you guys hearda second ago. Well, she either
her dad was either a Persian orhe was a con man. I mean,
(20:40):
so let's hear so, I knowPersians are always called I mean,
that's why they find some you cancall it. I mean, Persians are
usually in the import export, yes, yes, yeah, but I mean
I don't know what I mean.The funny thing is is that I've never
heard of a Persian referred to theirfather as a con man. So let's
hear that, just detail, becauseyou know, she was there's, she's.
(21:03):
These are words that she's used.She was beaten. She had to
use different names, different countries,different languages, different Alsona's different identities.
She was in a refugee camp inrefugee camps in Germany. She immigrated to
the United States of fifteen, butthe time by the time she was twelve,
she already had suffered like severe mentaland psychic psychic psychic disorders due to
(21:27):
the lifestyle that she was experiencing course, so tell us about exactly he wasn't,
just like, well, what exactlywas he doing? So we can
really understand where you came from.I mean, I don't know everything he
(21:47):
was doing, but I know somethings he did. For example, in
Turkey, he was um, hewasn't what he was like a civil engineer
in Turkey without anything. Well,he didn't have any education. You know,
he didn't have an that's a comment, like he didn't have a degree.
And he didn't have a degree.I seven a number one. Yes,
(22:11):
I've been fucking highway over that kindof so so, and then he
builds a highway and it's all crookedcountry. For his country, he was
in sanitation, I mean a sanitarium. He built um a lot of buildings
(22:33):
like apartments. Oh oh, that'svernacular. He's like a vernacular architect,
okay, and as um. Andthen before anything was completed, he would
sell those units to like dozens ofpeople. So that was one of the
things. Would he piss people offbecause they'd find out later maybe the buildings
(22:53):
weren't up to do they have code? Well, I don't think it ever
really got there. I don't knowif things were actually being built or they
were just in Mexico. He wouldhe would, he would, he would
sell like a blueprint, say,correct, I have this creative apartment.
Yeah, and you get an earlyJimmy, Yeah, you buy now for
(23:15):
ten thousand. Yeah. And yousee he takes him to like a site
that's not even his building, right, and he probably show him beating and
then the person goes there, goestwenty thousand dollars for that, and then
so they give him his money andthen he pulls a Bernie made off and
leaves. Right. But so wewere I don't know like all of the
(23:37):
different things he did. That wasone of them. One of them.
There was a guy I actually wrotea script about this and and I put
this Cohn in there. But aguy had all these like Persian rugs that
um, he wanted to bring andsell and then he basically somehow got him
to like send him to his address, and he would basically swind people out
(24:00):
of their life savings and then ohmy god, and then disappear their lives.
Um. So we were in inTurkey and he was doing this stuff,
and that was Turkey. That wasall no, no, no,
he never know. This was beforehe got to the United States and this
is all before twelve. Yeah,so he's in Turkey, he's doing all
it. First of all, hewas in Iran doing all the stuff.
(24:21):
We had to flee. We endedup in Turkey, and then he's,
oh, he did so many badshit leave the country. Oh that's bad.
And because in Iran mostly the peoplethat do swindle can still at least
live there. This guy was wayguy was like fucking swindling on crack,
you know. He was like,he's like, let's get out of here.
We go. So we end upin Turkey, and in Turkey he
(24:44):
does all sorts of stuff and um, and then we have to leave in
the middle of the night. AndI was just gonna ask, so would
they just wake up in the middleof nine and state we gotta go,
like from a film that we wrote, And that's how it started Pilot.
Yeah. See that's yeah, that'syeah. So I'm nine years old.
We leave Turkey and we've been livingthere for five years, and we end
(25:07):
up we have Yugoslavian passports. We'recoming to America, you know, and
uh, you have Yugoslavian passports,so you went from to America. He's
so in Germany and Frankfurt Airport.Just so it happens the guy who's like
(25:29):
checking us in to our flight toAmerica happens to be Yugoslavian. Oh my
god, and he starts talking tomy dad in the language which he doesn't
understand. That's like a scene froma movie when you're sweating, like yeah.
So then they pull us out ofline and they take us down to
(25:51):
the dungeon portion of the airport.It's like these narrow gray walls and chairs,
you know, lined up against thewall and um looks oddly like a
gray hospital kind of a thing.And so they take my parents in for
questioning. And from that point onwe are not allowed to speak Turkish,
(26:12):
which is the only language we speak, because the backstory is that, Okay,
so we're not these Yugoslavian people.We are these other people from Iran
and uh and we are on therun because my dad's a writer and he's
a political writer. They pulled apolitical call. Yeah, so so we're
(26:33):
political, right, they were lastminute, tell you a new story and
you'd have to remember the whole thing. So right this week we're this you
remember it? Well, Yeah,it's like lying was our lives. But
but it was mostly don't say anything. Yeah, that was that was basically,
don't speak Turkish. And I remembervery Turkish. Turkish was the only
language I spoke fluently at this time. Do you speak it still? No?
(26:56):
I don't. So when I wasnine and we ended up in um
in Germany, we were forbidden tospeak Turkish. And we're political refugees.
So we are now in refugee camps. For a year and a half,
we're in refugee camps. And whilewe are in refugee camps, there are
Turkish people all around us. AndI remember this family. They had two
(27:21):
teenage boys and I'm nine, minesisters six, and they would talk behind
our backs, but in front ofus in Turkish, like they would just
talk smack about us, right,I'm we understood every single We never responded,
and because we weren't allowed, becausewe weren't allowed, like yeah,
(27:44):
and I remember the only thing,just one incident. They were saying some
really nasty stuff and I just rememberme and my sister look up at each
other and then look back down tolike whatever we were playing with. And
to this day, I don't understandhow a nine year old and a six
year old can do that. That'sthat's like, that's crazy. I'm surprised
(28:06):
that you're actually a grounded person.Now that's taking your years of work,
which we're going to get into,but that's crazy for a kid that young.
And that's the Those are the yearswhere a person becomes that's where are
we're programmed. Those years from fromlike four ten twelve, that's when we're
programmed as human being. So thosethings you experienced were insane. So when
you say a refugee camp, isit like are you locked in? Like
(28:30):
is there barbed wire offenses? SoGermany is interesting. Their refugee camps are
old buildings that are repurposed and someof the and depending on what the old
building used to be, you havedifferent um types of accommodation. So for
instance, some building was a prison, so you're not gonna have it's going
(28:52):
to look very different. Yeah,Then if the old building was a school,
and you know, they convert theclassrooms into multiple rooms, you know,
but each family gets a room.The best was when the buildings were
hotels in the past. At leastyou have your own bathroom. And then
how did you get food? Theybrought it to you. Yeah. So
(29:14):
what I remember is that once aweek every family. First of all,
every family is in a room.Um, you know, if you're four
of you, six of you,whatever, every family gets one room.
And um, every family gets onebox of food every week. So you
go down. Yeah, so sofor the whole week and uh. And
(29:36):
then there's a common area usually andin the common area that's where you pick
up your box of food. Andthere's also a list that goes up on
the wall once a week, Likeon a Tuesday night, there might be
a list. This list comes upand if your name is on there,
like really early the next morning,you are ready packed down stairs and ready
(30:00):
to go to the next thing.And you don't know what the next thing
is some town in Germany that they'regoing to place you in. Right,
you can be deported, you canbe moved to a different location, you
can be taken somewhere for questioning,like, you don't know what. You're
just living what it is every moment, week by weekend. But they did,
the Germans did. Listen, man, let's let's take a moment.
(30:22):
Wait, she's not even in herforties, so this isn't that long ago.
No, but let's get to theGermans. What the world is like.
No, but but let's get propsto the Germans. They took a
lot of people in that they havea huge Turkish population because they yeah,
they took a lot of Germans.They're they're good people. The Germans there.
Now, please, While she wasexperiencing that, we're over here just
(30:45):
chilling, chilling, seriously, playingin the creed, seriously like this still
happened in the p and she's overthere in a freaking refugee camp from day
to day, doesn't know what's goingto happen. They got to ration their
food, understand, and then howdid you guys eventually move from that place?
So we um, So we're inrefugee camps for a year and a
(31:07):
half, which is basically we movedeight, nine, ten times during the
year. A kid for a kid, dude, the kids kid like,
that's one of the most American kidswho move off and say they've been traumatized.
That's nothing compared to this. Soyou can move to a yeah,
hine ten times yeah in one year. And so then eventually we get refugee
(31:30):
status because they buy my dad's storythat I'm a political writer from Iran.
And you can't send us back becausethey will hang me. Blah blah blah.
So we get refugee stads, weget refugee passports. We're able to
rent an apartment and live somewhere somewhatmore stably. And then the Turkish government
(31:52):
tracks down my dad in Germany andthey put him in jail. And so
my dad in jail in Germany andthe Turkish government wants him shipped to Turkey
to answer for his crimes. Andmeanwhile, my dad's like, I'm not
that person. I don't know whothat person is, not me, you
(32:13):
know. So then he's in jailfor thirteen months and at the end of
which he successfully proved that he isnot himself. So he was you didn't
see him. He successfully proved hewas not himself. Correct, that's a
continent of himself and successfully proved youwere not yourself and was released from tim
But he proved that he's not himhe did, Yeah, and then they
(32:35):
paid him money for every day hespending. He didn't see him for thirteen
months. Yeah, we visited hima couple of times. He pulled a
lot of stunts in there. Hewent on a hunger strike, lost like
a ton of way. He triedto kill himself, but he knew that
he wasn't gonna die. Well,this guy's the real McCoy. So speaking
(32:58):
of killing themselves whatever, let's talkabout now fast forward to you went through
a lot of mental and psychic psyche. Your psyche was blown away from this.
Yeah, you had some bouts withdepression or yeah. Yeah. So
by the time I was eleven,I had severe nervous ticks. UM,
(33:20):
I was angry a lot. UM, I was suicidal. I regularly fantasized
about taking my life. I wasangry. I was really really angry and
um, and I decided there's noGod. Because of God that allows children
to suffer the way I had cannotexist. Uh. And so we had
(33:43):
a huge falling out and and thatwas kind of the normal internal state for
me into my twenties. But you'reforced to grow up fast when you go
through God. We found we figuredit out later, but you know,
through life you start to finally figureit out. But she was forced to
have her mortality in front of herand like, what's real and what's not?
(34:05):
So then what brought you to thento the states of fifteen? What
how did that transpire. So weUh so when I was eleven, we
um and where in Germany my dadis released from prison. And while he
was in jail, towards the endof it, my my mom worked,
who was like a battered woman essentially, she worked up the courage to file
(34:29):
for divorce and and she that takesa lot of courage. It took a
lot of courage from her for her. Yeah, battered by him, by
him, he was he was abusivein every way he was. Were you
were you physically abused because you saidabsolutely? I thought it was from like
refugee camps. No, no,no, no, my dad was enough.
Yeah, so he was physically abusive, emotionally, psychologically he was paranoid.
(34:53):
He uh he was just a reallybrilliant person. Yeah, dreamely charismatic,
so smart and so destructive like everywherehe went. Yeah. So,
um, so my mom works upthe courage to file for divorce and she's
(35:14):
granted divorce. So then he comesout of jail and um and the government
wants him to pay ch health supportbecause you know, she has custody of
us, And he turns around andsays, no, they're not my kids.
I shouldn't have to pay for them, So that for me was like
(35:35):
for money in Germany. In Germany, well, do you know the government
is trying to get at him too, you know, so you got to
keep that in mind. Honestly,he's a charlatan. Yeah, wants to
bow down to the government that doesn'tgive them the proper respect they deserve as
a person. But go ahead.Yeah, so your mom grabs Union comany
United States. Yeah, so itso we do DNA testing first to we
(36:00):
are his kids, and then hecalls one day and says, I got
this letter saying they are my kids. I'm coming to get them. And
he lived about like an hour away, and my mom is frantic at this
point, and we always had acouple of bags packed and in a corner.
So she grabs the bags and she'slike, you have five minutes to
go through the apartment, grab whateveryou want, and she calls a cab
(36:22):
and we get in the cabin.We go to her co workers house.
Turkish people, super nice people,and we lived there for two weeks while
she arranged us for our flights backto Iran. So then we end up
in Iran. Suddenly we have allthis family. My mom's the youngest of
ten. We had no idea ofcousins. We have never I didn't know
(36:45):
I had cousins. I didn't knowI have uncles and aunts. And it's
really weird. We just grew upin isolation in this weird way, and
all of a sudden, there's allthese people who are related to us,
you know, in Iran, andthere's all this support and um and it
and it took it took a littlebit of time to just like find be
(37:07):
okay with that level of kind ofstability. Yeah and um. About a
dozen years before that, my momhad applied for a green card through her
brother who lives here, and whilewe were in Iran, the green cart
came through. Oh wow, shegot the lottery. Yeah and and so
(37:28):
wow, so we had And thatwas a whole anther ordeal. Because her
divorce was not recognized in Iran,she was not allowed to take us out
of the country, so she hadto go to court for two years to
be able to because of the gotus out of the kind of very sexy
system. And during those whole twoyears, while you guys in irund your
(37:49):
dad didn't find you guys there,No not that I locked up, he
was out of tram down when hewasn't going back there there. And here's
the crazy thing, Like my mom's, uh my dad's siblings had taken my
mom and my dad's identities. They'dtaken their identities and created documents with their
(38:16):
own pictures and done all this legalstuff. So when my mom got to
Iran, she was charged with allthis like crime that she had to like
she had to go to court.And that's crazy, Ellie, Ellie's shady
shady Showja is Elie Sojo? Yourreal name? Yes? Solo? Is
(38:44):
that her real name? Does sheeven know her true identity? When you
grew up with this lifestyle? Imean, how many people do love to
tell it? Growing up as achild the daughter of a con man,
an international khan man, flee fromcity to city, town to town,
country to country. Does she evenknow her own truth? She's just getting
(39:07):
started. That's Ellie so Jum.I guess I'm on a roll call the
podcast This is America's podcaster Kirkus Sarasmy co host Anthony is Easy Tony Frost.
We know you're gonna want to comeback to here. The second part
of this one, Part two,with Eli so John roll Call the podcast,
talking about her life on the run, her identity, and how it's
(39:30):
affected her as an adult. Seehim part two, good Night You You I
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