September 12, 2023 • 36 mins
Ready to up your game in the TTRPG space? Ever wondered how project management skills could change your trajectory as a creator? We dive into the nitty-gritty of project management, starting with the basics - what a project is, who a project manager is, and the phases within a project. We've got your back on each step of this journey, demystifying processes and sharing relatable examples to bring clarity. And we're not stopping at the theory, our next episode promises to unlock the world of project management tools for you.
But that's not all. A project isn't just about the process; it's about people too. We unpack the art of managing your team and resources, from project initiation to dealing with setbacks. We delve into the significance of project planning and risk management, guiding you to set up budgets and team agreements effectively. We also talk about working with artists, creating an environment that respects their creativity and time. As we explore the role of a project manager, we emphasize the importance of monitoring progress and ensuring the quality of life for your team. So, whether you're a solo creator or part of a team, these insights are here to make your TTRPG journey smoother.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Courtney (00:08):
Hello and welcome to Roll Play Grow, the podcast for
tabletop entrepreneurs, creatorsand fans.
In this show, we dig intoprocesses, challenges, tips and
really look at how to grow abusiness in the tabletop
role-play gaming space.
Sit back and join in as welearn from the creators behind
your favorite brands about whothey are and how they are
turning their passion for gaminginto a career.
Matt (00:30):
Welcome to Roll Play Grow, the bi-monthly sanctuary where
fantasy meets reality.
I'm Matt Joro.
Courtney (00:36):
And I'm Courtney Stover.
Matt (00:38):
Today we dive into one of our special episodes the
Proficiency Check.
Here we equip TTRPG creatorswith the tools, business
insights and skills to level uptheir game.
So grab your notebooks,adventurers, because today it's
time Roll Play Grow.
Courtney (00:54):
So today we are going to kick off a new series.
So if you've been listening fora little while, ever since Matt
joined on the show, we did athree-part series on building an
online community, not just afollowing.
So today we're kicking offanother series where we're going
to deep dive into projectmanagement, which, personally,
(01:17):
I'm excited about because I'vebeen doing that for a really
long time.
Matt (01:21):
I think a lot of people need project management and they
don't know it.
They'd be like, oh yeah, I'mjust going to wing it, I'm just
going to go on this project,it's all going to come together.
Courtney (01:29):
It doesn't work, it just never works.
You get like partway into itand you're like, okay, I found
like all these team members andman, nobody's talking to me,
Nobody's like getting theirstuff turned in when they said
they were going to do it Likethis sucks.
Matt (01:43):
Yeah, one person who's done, one person who hasn't
started, two people don't knowwhere the chat is.
Yeah, next thing you knowyou're past your deadline.
We don't want you to happen toyou.
That shouldn't happen to you.
Courtney (01:55):
Yeah, so I'm definitely looking forward to
digging into this.
Matt, I'd like to know whatyour experience with project
management is.
Matt (02:05):
So, professionally, I have a background with Scrum, so I
know how to do projectmanagement in various settings.
Once upon a time I owned avideo game company and we did a
lot when we realized we neededthe project manager, because we
ran into a lot of the issuesthat I actually mentioned before
(02:26):
.
That was me.
So when you have, like, an artteam and a narrative team and
you have coders and all thatstuff, you need to keep people
on the same page and keepingthem motivated and moving
through all those things.
So a project manager isparamount, it's absolutely
necessary and if you can't do ityourself, absolutely find
(02:47):
someone who can.
I've been the project manager,I've worked with project
managers and I will never, ever,do another large project
without one.
That is my experience.
Courtney (03:02):
Yeah, for me, I really started on like a project
coordination into managementtrack professionally like a
decade ago, like it has been along time, and so some of it I
was like teaching myself.
And then I took an officialcourse back in 2019 so that I
could get my PMP certification,which is project management
(03:24):
professional, which if you wantto do project management in the
corporate world, that is reallyimportant to get that
certification this way.
It really helps you bump upyour salary.
Yes, so a lot of good things.
That certification mostlyfocuses on what's called
waterfall project management,where there is like a specific
(03:45):
timeline that you work through.
There's a start, there's an end, like that's going to be the
majority of the projects outthere.
And then a few years later, Igot my scrum certification,
which you have mentioned scrum,for those of you that are like
that's a rugby term like what isthat?
Scrum project management is atype of what's called agile
(04:06):
project management, which,honestly, like the best way to
think of it is think aboutyou've got a software, you've
got a video game or you've gotFacebook, whatever.
That is going to be an agileproject, because you are picking
like what are the biggest likeupgrades that we need to do.
You focus on those and what'sgot to sprint for like a short
amount of time like two to fourweeks typically and you like get
(04:30):
it done.
If anything else comes up,great, it goes in the backlog,
you're going to deal with itlater and you just do like
iterative updates.
So those are the types ofproject management.
I got certifications and both.
I've been doing it in corporatelife for a very long time, so
definitely excited to take intothis today.
Matt (04:47):
Yeah, hopefully we can break it down for all the people
who are just like what ishappening right now.
So stick with us and we willget you through it.
And hopefully it encourages youto try out your own large
projects one day.
And because with this, withthis expertise, I think you'll
be well equipped and on your way.
Courtney (05:07):
Definitely so, like I said, this is going to be a bit
of a series.
So in today's episode we aregoing to get down into the
absolute basics with, like, whatis a project, what does a
project manager do, and like,what are the phases within a
waterfall project?
So we're going to focus mostlyon the waterfowl style that I
mentioned at first, because themajority of projects within the
(05:30):
TTRPG space like if you'redesigning a game, if you're
launching an Etsy store, likewhatever are going to follow
this type of project management.
So there are five phases goingto get into that.
Give you some examples.
And then in the next episodewe're going to start looking at
tools that like how do youactually get it all organized?
Matt (05:50):
Awesome.
Courtney (05:51):
I'll kick us off.
Matt (05:53):
Yeah, let's go.
Courtney (05:55):
Okay.
So, starting super basic,what's a project?
And honestly, a project is atemporary endeavor that results
in a deliverable or multipledeliverables, and it has an end
date.
So this is not daily operations.
This is not just I'm fulfillingorders.
(06:15):
Got to make sure I get theseorders done, you know, by like
the deadline that I set formyself.
Like this is something that islike you are working towards a
specific goal and you get thatobjective done.
You have a deliverable which iscan be anything like.
Okay, I am.
My project is to set up awebsite.
The deliverable is the website.
(06:36):
You might have multiple likethings within that which are
different art pieces that aregoing up on your website, or the
initial like pages need to betheir own deliverable, but
essentially, like you're makingthat website.
Once that website is live andit is done, so you can have a
project that will establish howa daily operation will work.
For example, I need to set upmy Etsy store and I need to know
(06:59):
how I am going to do thefulfillment like and as you set
up all of those processes.
Like that's part of yourproject, but once you have it up
and running, your project isover.
Project management focuses onplanning and organizing that
project and all of the resources.
So things you're going to bedoing are figuring out what is
(07:20):
your project goal, what's yourtimeline, what is your team, how
many people are on your team,what is their schedule, and you
efficiently guide that teamthrough all of the phases that
you build out with them untilyou finish the project.
A lot of it is like kind oflike to picture a spider in a
web.
Like you are the center pointof communication between all
(07:43):
parts of that web.
You know, like you have to talkto your artist, you talk to
your game designer, you talk toyour layout designer, your
editor, your sensitivityconsultant All of these people
you make sure that whomever yourproject sponsor is which is the
person usually if it's intabletop, like if you're
designing a game, like the gamedesigner that first started it
and then hired you as projectmanager you know you're making
(08:06):
sure that their vision getscommunicated to the rest of the
team.
If you are the game designerand trying to be the project
manager, then you're going towant these skills as well.
Matt (08:16):
I got a question what is the minimum amount of people
that should constitute a teamthat requires a project manager?
Courtney (08:25):
I.
Matt (08:27):
Is it only just you and one other person?
Is that good enough to putthese skills to work?
Courtney (08:32):
Yes, absolutely Honestly.
Even if it's just you knowinghow to plan out all of the steps
that you want to do andeverything you want to do for
your project, it's still goingto be useful to have all of
these skills.
Matt (08:47):
So, big or small project, this is helpful to everybody.
Courtney (08:50):
Absolutely yes.
Yeah, so I know a lot of what Isaid sounds kind of corporate,
so I want to just maybe give alittle bit of example.
You know so, matt, you'redesigning the game.
You found artists, you have aneditor, a sensitivity reader, a
layout designer.
You're having a really hardtime managing everybody.
People are missing deadlines.
You're communicating in threedifferent platforms, depending
(09:13):
on the person you're talking to.
Matt (09:16):
That's a nightmare.
That is a nightmare scenario.
Courtney (09:22):
I was just thinking about that.
Matt (09:23):
Wow, yeah, no, yeah, definitely want to rein that in.
Courtney (09:30):
So, yeah, these tools will help you.
Even if you are in thatsituation right now and you're
not kicking off a project,learning these tools is going to
help you get that team back ontrack, you know, get you a
schedule like come to anagreement about communication
tools.
Get you meeting deadlines.
Just help you know how to dealwith setbacks when things do go
(09:51):
wrong, because, unfortunately,no matter how much you plan, you
will still have issues.
But you can have a plan on howyou're going to deal with the
issues when they come up.
Matt (09:59):
I think also by being able to plan this stuff out, I think
it'll help a lot of peoplebuild the confidence to take the
steps forward, to evenembarking on some of these
projects.
Some people might just, hey,one day I want to do this.
But it's also once you startputting pen to paper and you can
see, end to end, what it isyou're trying to do, you might
go oh, I can do this in aweekend, so all right, yeah.
Courtney (10:24):
Absolutely.
Hey, entrepreneurs, I loveintroducing you to new creators
every episode, but I couldreally use your support.
I would love to invite you tojoin our Patreon page, where
you'll gain access to behind thescenes content.
Add your questions to upcominginterviews and you could even
receive a shout out on our sitein an upcoming episode.
To learn more, go tolightheartadventurescom.
(10:46):
Slash rpg and now back to theshow.
Okay, so I want to jump in toproject phases and again these
terms that I'm going on.
I get it, they're supercorporate, but the project
management professional thinghas been around for decades and
a lot of successful projectmanagers have learned it and,
(11:09):
like these, work for literallyany industry.
So I'm going to give you someexamples of like how you would
use it if you were designinglike a TTRBG or launching in
that store.
So the very first phase isproject initiation.
This is when you decide thatyou want to do a thing.
You're writing that game,you're writing that supplement,
you're going to make someproducts and put it out on Etsy
(11:31):
or your own store or what haveyou what you want to do.
Like the very first thing thatyou should do when you decide
that you want to make somethingis write out what you're trying
to accomplish.
You know what are you making.
What is your hope for, likeonce it's out there.
You know what kinds of peopleare you targeting, like who's
(11:52):
your audience?
Talked about that a lot incommunity building, but it's
important for this to know whatresources do you need to be able
to hit that goal.
If you're starting a store, Doyou need a logo?
Do you need different artworkto go like in the background?
Do you need, like an artist fordrawing, all of the art pieces
(12:13):
to go with in your game?
Are you going to do graphics orlayout yourself?
Like what skills do you havealready that you are willing and
able to do or willing and ableto learn to do yourself in the
project versus like what do youneed help with?
Because you are just, you can'tdraw, you're really bad at it,
so you know you're going to haveto find art somewhere.
Matt (12:34):
So let's say, I'm trying to make a TT RPG sticker store,
right?
So if I go through this, that'swhat I want to do, that's my
initiation goal.
And then let's see do I need alogo?
I will need a logo.
Do I need an artist?
I want an artist.
I can kind of draw, but let'smake this really super
(12:57):
successful and hire someone thatI like and maybe I can work
with someone in the community.
Cool, while you're going to dothe graphics and layout, I can
do the layout.
Sure, let's see skills.
Otherwise, I think we're ingood shape.
So, all right, I'm going to usethat as an example, because now
I want to make a sticker store.
Courtney (13:19):
Amazing.
So you start figuring all ofthat out and then that helps you
determine, like, who are thepeople that you need to find to
like help you get this done.
So also in project initiation,you start to find your team.
So you know, matt, for yoursticker store you want to find
an artist.
So now you're going to have togo and out and start sourcing
(13:40):
artists, which I see here.
It's not an expression.
Matt (13:44):
Yeah, it's funny because, like for me, I always want to
pick people that I've eitherworked with before or people who
aren't typically known for it,because I know there are a lot
of people who do sticker stuffand it's like they got their own
projects.
So let me reach out and grabpeople who might be comic book
artists or digital artists forother things, and I'll say, hey,
(14:05):
you want to.
Yeah, that's how I would try tofind people.
Courtney (14:10):
Yeah, and I feel like we can spend a whole other
episode just giving tips on,like how to find team members.
Matt (14:17):
I'm still in there.
Courtney (14:19):
And they realize like oh, but you know, this is
project initiation.
It's when you're looking foryour team, you know like.
Or if it's things like, oh, Ineed to start up an LLC, cool,
look for some YouTube videos onhow to do that, log articles,
find a consultant if you needone, you know, look into state
programs et cetera.
Like, help you get thatbusiness started.
All of that is what you'redoing in project initiation.
(14:40):
You are just finding your team,you're getting agreements going
.
Then you hit project planningand whether you are the project
manager and not the gamedesigner, or even if you're like
the game designer and you'retaking it on the PM role
yourself, you are honestly goingto spend more time in planning
(15:00):
than you are in the next phase,which is where you actually do
the creation.
And the reason for that isbecause the better plan you have
at the beginning, the smootheryour project is going to go.
So what are we doing in projectplanning?
Like you have your teamtogether.
You're going to make acommunication plan.
(15:21):
Like, okay, we are all meetingon discord, that's where we're
going to be, like our centralplace to talk about things and
give updates.
But we're also going to usethis thing called Asana or
Trello or Notion.
We will get to that in the nextepisode.
You're going to have like somesort of system where you track
all of the to do items and likewho's responsible and when it's
(15:42):
due.
You know like that's all goingto be part of your communication
plan and, like you know, areyou going to have meetings as a
project team Spoiler.
You should Figure out like howoften you're going to do that.
You're also going to do what'scalled.
You're going to define what'scalled the project scope.
So you are making a game.
(16:03):
You want it to be 100 pageslong.
How many art pieces do you need?
General rule of thumb is tohave 20 to 25% of the page count
in quarter size art pieces.
So you want 20 to 25 art piecesfor 100 page game that are a
quarter page.
You know that can change if youhave like larger pieces.
You know the number can adjust,but generally you're going to
(16:24):
need that many pieces of art.
So how many artists did youhire?
Okay, how long is it going totake each artist to work on each
of these pieces?
Like that all has to beaccounted for as you start to
develop your plan or yourtimeline.
Matt (16:39):
All right.
Courtney (16:39):
One thing I'm going to say is that it is absolutely
essential to plan out the scopeand decide on the scope at the
beginning of a project.
It's going to help you stick tothat plan throughout the
project, because it's very, verycommon for projects to get off
track because of somethingcalled scope creep.
Matt (17:00):
Oh yes, oh yes, so so, okay.
So for me who just made asticker company, I need to
define a project, and part ofthat would be what the scope
would be.
So say, my first stickerproject scope would be I wanted
50 unique types of stickers.
Would that count as scope?
Courtney (17:21):
It would.
Matt (17:22):
Okay, so I got my team.
We're now on a discord.
The icons, my face it smileswhen you click on it.
We all hang out there, we workon how we're going to make 50
stickers, but then someone says,well, what if we just did an
additional five more forsomething special?
(17:44):
What are we walking into here?
Courtney (17:46):
So that is what scope creep is, and it's very common
for things to come up.
You know, someone has a reallygood idea or like some issue
happens where like, oh, I justrealized I have to get like this
whole other certificationbefore I can start selling these
stickers.
Whatever it is, somethinghappens that could impact your
project and make a change andthe very first thing you got to
(18:09):
do is it say, hey, you know,that's a great idea, but hold on
, we need to compare it to thescope.
So that's where you go back toyour documentation, saying I'm
going to do 50 stickers and aspart of that, you would have
defined, like why 50, you knowwhat type of stickers are you
doing and you know theseadditional five stickers that
your artists is like, hey, weshould do this.
(18:30):
Well, talk to them, find out whythey want to do it and then
evaluate what the change wouldbe.
You know, like, how muchadditional time is this going to
take?
Like how much additionalresources?
Like how much do I have to paythese artists because that's
going to impact the budget tosuddenly have to pay for five
more stickers, or is this areally good idea and it's worth
(18:51):
it and we don't do five stickersthat were originally planned
for.
Like, you have to analyze theimpact before you actually move
forward, because when you don'tanalyze the impact, it just
screws your entire project up.
Matt (19:07):
So it sounds to me like if you want to manage a project
properly, it really kind ofdemands that you're honest about
yourself and you're disciplinedwith your goals.
And that can be difficultbecause I want to make
everything all the time and Iwant to tell myself that I can
do it.
But this project managementsystem will rain me in and I
(19:31):
will see through my originalgoal, which is something I wish
I had 10 years ago.
Courtney (19:39):
The way to think about it is like I honestly rarely
say no.
When someone says, hey, I wantto do this additional thing, I
say, okay, let's think about it.
Like, sure, we can do that.
Here's how much it's going toadd to the budget, here's how
long it's going to extend, likewhen we can go live.
And when you think about it inthose terms or present it in
(20:02):
those terms to the person saying, hey, we should make this
change, and a lot of the timethey go, oh yeah, sorry, I can't
actually afford to pay for morethings right now, so I guess
we'll hold that to a laterproject.
Or if they think, no, it'sworth it, great, Let me make
some change.
Documentation, saying that weare going to make this change
because you want to documenteverything as a project manager,
(20:23):
so I think we'll have to adjustyour project plan.
Matt (20:27):
So it really takes being mindful of the impact of any
changes you want to do.
Courtney (20:32):
Definitely All right.
There's some more things you'regoing to do in the planning
phase is building, not yourbudget?
Where is it coming from?
Are you fronting the costs?
Are you crowdfunding?
How much are you paying each ofyour team members?
When is that payment due?
On what schedule?
(20:53):
How much of that payment isdependent on your crowdfund
being successful.
Honestly, I have always hatedaccounting, so it's not my
favorite part, but it isdefinitely an essential part
Because, again, if an artist islike, hey, let's do five more
stickers, you need to know howmuch that artist charges and
figure out if you can fit thatinto your budget or not.
Matt (21:15):
I find that, as an accountant myself, when you are
working with people specificallyfriends on a large project that
can involve money, make it thefirst thing you talk about, just
so I know everyone can getcaught up in the idea of I love
this creative project.
This is really cool.
I'm excited to work with all ofyou.
Nail those things down sopeople aren't thinking about it
(21:38):
later, because if it weighs onpeople and people are like I
don't want to bring it up, Idon't want to be the one to talk
about it, what's going on here?
And then, like your firstdiscussion ends with no one
saying anything, everyone'sgoing to be nervous to come back
and talk about it again.
That's my experience.
Just get it out.
Hey, this is what we're lookingat.
Figure your budget out andfigure out any agreements that
(22:01):
you have with the people thatare involved and how those all
work.
Courtney (22:06):
Yeah, it is super, super important.
So many people in this spaceare like, oh you know, I get
like it's a small budget andlike they charge nowhere near
what they're worth.
But regardless, it's figuringout like how much you're going
to pay them and getting you knowif that's just like a deposit
(22:26):
to reserve their services.
Make sure that you have thatmoney like ready to go.
So some more things that you'regoing to plan out in this big
phase Like I said, it is thebiggest one is really like you
have found your team.
You've figured out, like youknow what they're charging, how
quickly they work.
You've laid out all of the stepsthat you want to do to get this
(22:48):
project done.
That's when you get to actuallyfigure out the timeline and you
know what things can overlap.
Like artists can be working onart pieces while you're, you
know, figuring out how to set upan LLC and set up your sticker
store.
Like you can definitely makesure that things overlap, but
you want to make sure that yougive enough time for those
(23:08):
artists to present the stickerdesigns to you and then you
review them and then you givefeedback and they revise and you
probably want to have a coupleof revision processes built into
this timeline, as you want tomake sure that things are
happening in a timely manner,but you're not stressing people
out because you gave them toolittle time to do it.
(23:29):
And life happens Things come up, people fall behind.
You don't have a plan on howyou're going to react if things
like get delayed or if an artistsuddenly has to drop out of the
project.
It's going to be stressful.
Matt (23:42):
Oh yeah.
So for my example, here I gotmy sticker guys.
I've hired two artists who I'mgoing to pay upfront and they're
just going to work on, say, 10stickers in this first, I don't
know, sprint.
Do we recall this as a sprint?
In this case?
That's just me and my agilebackground.
(24:03):
But what would you?
Is there any term for it forwaterfall?
Courtney (24:08):
Not this phase.
Matt (24:09):
Phase.
Okay.
So our phase here we areworking on getting 20 stickers
set out.
I've already paid them upfront.
They're going to do the thing.
I set up the LLC.
I'm going to probably also setup where these stickers are
going to sell at the same time,because I want these to be seen
by people.
I know my budget.
I got the talent covered.
(24:29):
I'm going to set aside a littlebit for marketing, which means
probably reaching out to someinfluencers and saying hey, I
need you to put this sticker onsomething that you care about.
That's your thing.
I'm going to pay you for that.
And then suddenly an artistdrops out.
Now I got to figure out Ipromise 20 stickers.
(24:50):
Now I'm scrambling Find anotherartist, but fortunately it
doesn't.
It's not.
It's a lot less of a panic,because I have my plan and I can
stick to.
I just need to replace this oneperson, or maybe use two
instead.
Courtney (25:05):
Yep, so that is risk management.
You know they're like okay ifan artist drops out.
I have already identified thatthese are some other artists I
would be interested in workingwith, or I know that the other
artists that didn't drop outwould be able to take on a
couple more of these designs.
Those are all things thatyou're going to like.
I've tried to figure out aheadof time or like planned out just
(25:27):
in case something bad happens.
Matt (25:29):
So you would include contingency planning and
planning.
Courtney (25:33):
Yes would, yes, I would.
Matt (25:34):
That's brilliant.
Yes, absolutely do that, yes.
Courtney (25:39):
So, yeah, like there is a ton of stuff to do on
project planning.
So once you get a plan together, you are going to move on to
what's called project execution.
So this is the time that theartists are actually doing the
work of drawing the stickers.
You are doing the work oflooking into that, like how to
(25:59):
set up an LSE, how to set upthat sticker store.
If you are the person that isin charge of the work, if you
are the project manager, whatyou're doing during this time is
, honestly, a whole lot of catwrangling.
You are checking in with theproject team on whatever basis
you established and agreed towithin your communication plan.
(26:22):
So if that's going to be aweekly check-in on Discord to
just say, hey, how's it going,do you have any issues?
Whatever that rhythm is, thisis the time that you're doing
that.
Something that I like toestablish, especially with
people that are not used toworking with a project manager,
is to say, hey, I'm going to bechecking in with you on how
(26:43):
things are going.
I want you to know you're notin trouble.
There have been so many timeswhere people are like freaked
out that I'm talking to themlike I'm going to get it done
and I'm just like, hey, it's allcool, I just want to make sure
that you're doing good, thethings are on track.
If you're running into issues,I want to know what those issues
are so I can help you figurethem out.
It's just a time to be like,hey, how's it going?
Matt (27:05):
Like a quality of life check-in.
Courtney (27:07):
Yes, so you're doing your check-in, you're monitoring
the schedule to say all right,artist number one is supposed to
be turning in three stickers onFriday.
I haven't heard from them in awhile.
I didn't respond to my lastcheck-in.
I'm going to check in again andfind out.
Oh yeah, they're on track.
(27:27):
Great, don't forget to uploadthem to Alessana or whatever
tool you're using so that we canget the review going.
We're just doing that and you,like I said earlier, want to
document everything.
Every update, whether it's goodor bad.
Make sure that you are adding acomment onto that topic
(27:49):
wherever you are tracking yourprojects, just so that, let's
say, something bad happens andsomeone else has to step in and
help monitor, they're able tosee what happened.
Or, honestly, like you talk tosomebody and then it's been
three weeks, you're notnecessarily going to remember
what they said three weeks ago.
Matt (28:07):
Yeah, yeah, for me it's normally.
I have so many projects thatI'm working on that if I didn't
have those kind of notes, I needsomeone to catch me back up on
what we're doing.
So, yeah, yeah, anyone who doesdocumentation does those notes.
Thank you.
Courtney (28:24):
Yeah.
So if somebody is runningbehind, this is when you are
juggling balls to say, okay, Iget it, you're not going to be
able to turn your art in on time.
How is this going to impact theproject?
Did we have wiggle room builtin?
Is it okay that, instead of youhaving three days to review
their art, you only have one dayto review their art because
(28:44):
they're going to be two dayslate?
Or do I need to pull in adifferent artist to cover some
of the sticker drawings?
You have your contingency planthat you've already laid out and
you just follow that.
You work through what theimpact is going to be and help
come to a decision on how tomove on.
Matt (29:06):
So we're getting it all done.
Now the stickers are inproduction, everyone's on task,
everyone's on schedule and we'regetting results.
So far, so good.
Courtney (29:18):
Eventually you launch your sticker store Woo.
Matt (29:23):
I'm excited yeah.
Courtney (29:25):
That sticker store launches, you move into the
second to last phase, which ismonitoring and controlling.
Now, to be fair, the type ofprojects that you're doing in
TTRBGs.
You're probably not going tohave to spend a ton of time in
this phase for your stickerstore.
That would essentially be likeyou're waiting to get feedback
from customers.
You find out after the firstweek or two that, oh, one of the
(29:49):
stickers got misprinted or itwas cut wrong.
So then you would go in anddeal with fixing that If you
were designing a game.
You've sent the book out and,oh no, some people found some
typos that didn't get caught.
So let's go ahead and make surethat's documented and fixed for
the next printing and updatedin the PDF version.
(30:10):
It's just kind of monitoringeverything, making sure that
things are moving along, thingsare good, before you can say I
am done with this project.
Matt (30:21):
This is long past the phase of needing beta testers.
You've already got everythingyour first wave of critiques
from friends and that sort ofthing, and then you've actually
launched it and now you'reresponding to the feedback for
version 1.01.
Courtney (30:37):
Exactly, Love it and eventually you say, all right,
well, I might get feedback thatwould impact a later version.
I'm going to officially closethis project.
So what you should do at thispoint essentially, when things
are stable, you don't anticipateany other changes you want to
do things like archiving all ofyour documents, any
(31:01):
conversations that are worthcopy pasting into a section
where you know that you canreference it later.
You want to have a lessonslearned area, especially if you
are going to do this type ofproject again.
Just document things that youfigured out.
Man, etsy charges a whole lot offees, so I don't ever want to
(31:21):
move on to Etsy.
I want to make sure that I setup my own store, things like
that.
If it was about the game likeokay, I learned that with this
particular artist, they saidthey were only going to need two
weeks to draw this art piece,but actually it took them like
four weeks.
So I want to make sure that Ibudget for a much longer time if
(31:43):
I work with this artist again.
This isn't a time to rag onpeople.
It's just to make notes so thatyou know how to do this again
in the future if you want to.
Matt (31:53):
Could you revisit your ideas of Project Creep here?
Courtney (31:57):
Absolutely.
Matt (31:58):
Okay, so I can get those extra five stickers.
Let's lock those guys down.
Courtney (32:04):
Well, yeah, so if you had decided not to do the five
stickers, you can say, all right, well, we're going to do a
second phase of this projectwhere those five stickers are
going to get made.
Yeah, so you want to documentstuff either.
You know, if you want to Worddocument at Google Doc, whether
it's a place in your Asana board, what have you just someplace
(32:25):
that you know that you canreference in the future?
Another thing if you're goingto meet with these people or
work with these people again inthe future, a postmortem is
actually super helpful.
This is just a meeting whereyou get to get together with
everybody, reflect on how theproject went, what went well,
what went wrong.
You know you especially want tolike set ground rules at the
beginning.
I'm like we're not here to likeyell at each other, like get
(32:49):
mad.
You know, it's just want torespectfully talk about things
and how we could do it betterthe next time.
Matt (32:56):
Nice.
I usually call that the victorylap and debrief.
Courtney (33:01):
I like it.
Okay, that was a lot.
I know that was a crash course.
We are going to dig a littlebit deeper into some other
things in the next couple ofepisodes To give you a bit more
like specific examples, butbefore we do that, you have
homework, because I just lovethat we started establishing
(33:22):
homework and things that youguys can actually be doing in
between these episodes.
First thing I want you to dowhat project do you have either
going on or that you want tostart?
Where are you within thatproject, if you've already begun
, or what kinds of things do youwant to do to get started in
the future?
Spend some time thinking aboutwhat is going well versus what
(33:43):
is not going well and what youwould like to change.
Write out your goals, what areyou trying to accomplish and,
more importantly, why.
You want to make sure that youare holding onto the why of that
project throughout the entiretime, because it will keep you
motivated even when things aregoing bad.
And then, finally, for now,what resources do you need to
(34:08):
find or recruit for this project?
Matt (34:12):
Excellent.
I think for people who strugglewith the motivation to actually
get things done, your step oneshould be making this list.
So begin here.
Use that momentum, startfilling it out, start making
some progress.
You will get to where you'retrying to go.
Courtney (34:27):
And our next proficiency check.
We are going to dig intoproject management tools and how
to actually start making theseplans that we talked about.
So check in.
In one week I'll have a lovelyinterview with another 2TRPG
creator, and then in two weekswe will continue the deep dive
into project management.
Matt (34:49):
And hit us up, we can talk about it.
Courtney (34:51):
Yep, so you can find us in a lot of places, because
there are a lot of places tolook right now.
Roleplaygrow has its ownaccount on Blue Sky and threads
and Instagram.
If you are trying to find me,I'm either Ketra or Ketra RPG,
depending on the platform.
Matt (35:12):
Yeah, if you're looking for me, it's Mad Joro.
I am dungeon glitch everywhere,but really, if you want to talk
to me, you can email me atglitch at gemfireflycom or hit
me up on threads today for ourMad this week.
Who knows?
Do my best, man.
(35:33):
That whole thing fractured.
Courtney (35:36):
I know it's hard, but you can always find us at
roleplaygrow at gmailcom too, ifeverything fails and dies.
Matt (35:47):
When yes, all right.
Courtney (35:52):
Well, thank you guys for listening and we will catch
you next time.
Matt (35:55):
Thank you, everybody Do your homework.
Courtney (36:00):
You just finished another episode of RoleplayGrow.
To check out the show notes andtranscript from today's episode
, you can go tolightheartadventures.
com/ rpg To keep up with everyepisode.
Please subscribe on yourpodcast player of choice and, if
you're enjoying the show, Iwould absolutely love if you
would leave me a review andshare this episode with your
(36:21):
friends.
Your review might even getfeatured on an upcoming episode.
To contact us, you can emailrollplaygrow@ gmail.
com.
There are a lot of social mediasites out there right now, so
look for roleplaygrow for theshow account and look for either
Ketra or KetraRPG for myaccounts and Dungeon Glitch for
(36:41):
Matt's accounts.
Lastly, I want to give aspecial shout out to our editor,
Sam Atkinson.
Your help is always appreciated.
Sam, Thank you all so much forlistening and I'll see you next
time on Roll Play Grow.
Hello and welcome to Roll Play Grow, the podcast for
tabletop entrepreneurs, creatorsand fans.
In this show, we dig intoprocesses, challenges, tips and
really look at how to grow abusiness in the tabletop
role-play gaming space.
Sit back and join in as welearn from the creators behind
your favorite brands about whothey are and how they are
turning their passion for gaminginto a career.
Matt (00:30):
Welcome to Roll Play Grow, the bi-monthly sanctuary where
fantasy meets reality.
I'm Matt Joro.
Courtney (00:36):
And I'm Courtney Stover.
Matt (00:38):
Today we dive into one of our special episodes the
Proficiency Check.
Here we equip TTRPG creatorswith the tools, business
insights and skills to level uptheir game.
So grab your notebooks,adventurers, because today it's
time Roll Play Grow.
Courtney (00:54):
So today we are going to kick off a new series.
So if you've been listening fora little while, ever since Matt
joined on the show, we did athree-part series on building an
online community, not just afollowing.
So today we're kicking offanother series where we're going
to deep dive into projectmanagement, which, personally,
(01:17):
I'm excited about because I'vebeen doing that for a really
long time.
Matt (01:21):
I think a lot of people need project management and they
don't know it.
They'd be like, oh yeah, I'mjust going to wing it, I'm just
going to go on this project,it's all going to come together.
Courtney (01:29):
It doesn't work, it just never works.
You get like partway into itand you're like, okay, I found
like all these team members andman, nobody's talking to me,
Nobody's like getting theirstuff turned in when they said
they were going to do it Likethis sucks.
Matt (01:43):
Yeah, one person who's done, one person who hasn't
started, two people don't knowwhere the chat is.
Yeah, next thing you knowyou're past your deadline.
We don't want you to happen toyou.
That shouldn't happen to you.
Courtney (01:55):
Yeah, so I'm definitely looking forward to
digging into this.
Matt, I'd like to know whatyour experience with project
management is.
Matt (02:05):
So, professionally, I have a background with Scrum, so I
know how to do projectmanagement in various settings.
Once upon a time I owned avideo game company and we did a
lot when we realized we neededthe project manager, because we
ran into a lot of the issuesthat I actually mentioned before
(02:26):
.
That was me.
So when you have, like, an artteam and a narrative team and
you have coders and all thatstuff, you need to keep people
on the same page and keepingthem motivated and moving
through all those things.
So a project manager isparamount, it's absolutely
necessary and if you can't do ityourself, absolutely find
(02:47):
someone who can.
I've been the project manager,I've worked with project
managers and I will never, ever,do another large project
without one.
That is my experience.
Courtney (03:02):
Yeah, for me, I really started on like a project
coordination into managementtrack professionally like a
decade ago, like it has been along time, and so some of it I
was like teaching myself.
And then I took an officialcourse back in 2019 so that I
could get my PMP certification,which is project management
(03:24):
professional, which if you wantto do project management in the
corporate world, that is reallyimportant to get that
certification this way.
It really helps you bump upyour salary.
Yes, so a lot of good things.
That certification mostlyfocuses on what's called
waterfall project management,where there is like a specific
(03:45):
timeline that you work through.
There's a start, there's an end, like that's going to be the
majority of the projects outthere.
And then a few years later, Igot my scrum certification,
which you have mentioned scrum,for those of you that are like
that's a rugby term like what isthat?
Scrum project management is atype of what's called agile
(04:06):
project management, which,honestly, like the best way to
think of it is think aboutyou've got a software, you've
got a video game or you've gotFacebook, whatever.
That is going to be an agileproject, because you are picking
like what are the biggest likeupgrades that we need to do.
You focus on those and what'sgot to sprint for like a short
amount of time like two to fourweeks typically and you like get
(04:30):
it done.
If anything else comes up,great, it goes in the backlog,
you're going to deal with itlater and you just do like
iterative updates.
So those are the types ofproject management.
I got certifications and both.
I've been doing it in corporatelife for a very long time, so
definitely excited to take intothis today.
Matt (04:47):
Yeah, hopefully we can break it down for all the people
who are just like what ishappening right now.
So stick with us and we willget you through it.
And hopefully it encourages youto try out your own large
projects one day.
And because with this, withthis expertise, I think you'll
be well equipped and on your way.
Courtney (05:07):
Definitely so, like I said, this is going to be a bit
of a series.
So in today's episode we aregoing to get down into the
absolute basics with, like, whatis a project, what does a
project manager do, and like,what are the phases within a
waterfall project?
So we're going to focus mostlyon the waterfowl style that I
mentioned at first, because themajority of projects within the
(05:30):
TTRPG space like if you'redesigning a game, if you're
launching an Etsy store, likewhatever are going to follow
this type of project management.
So there are five phases goingto get into that.
Give you some examples.
And then in the next episodewe're going to start looking at
tools that like how do youactually get it all organized?
Matt (05:50):
Awesome.
Courtney (05:51):
I'll kick us off.
Matt (05:53):
Yeah, let's go.
Courtney (05:55):
Okay.
So, starting super basic,what's a project?
And honestly, a project is atemporary endeavor that results
in a deliverable or multipledeliverables, and it has an end
date.
So this is not daily operations.
This is not just I'm fulfillingorders.
(06:15):
Got to make sure I get theseorders done, you know, by like
the deadline that I set formyself.
Like this is something that islike you are working towards a
specific goal and you get thatobjective done.
You have a deliverable which iscan be anything like.
Okay, I am.
My project is to set up awebsite.
The deliverable is the website.
(06:36):
You might have multiple likethings within that which are
different art pieces that aregoing up on your website, or the
initial like pages need to betheir own deliverable, but
essentially, like you're makingthat website.
Once that website is live andit is done, so you can have a
project that will establish howa daily operation will work.
For example, I need to set upmy Etsy store and I need to know
(06:59):
how I am going to do thefulfillment like and as you set
up all of those processes.
Like that's part of yourproject, but once you have it up
and running, your project isover.
Project management focuses onplanning and organizing that
project and all of the resources.
So things you're going to bedoing are figuring out what is
(07:20):
your project goal, what's yourtimeline, what is your team, how
many people are on your team,what is their schedule, and you
efficiently guide that teamthrough all of the phases that
you build out with them untilyou finish the project.
A lot of it is like kind oflike to picture a spider in a
web.
Like you are the center pointof communication between all
(07:43):
parts of that web.
You know, like you have to talkto your artist, you talk to
your game designer, you talk toyour layout designer, your
editor, your sensitivityconsultant All of these people
you make sure that whomever yourproject sponsor is which is the
person usually if it's intabletop, like if you're
designing a game, like the gamedesigner that first started it
and then hired you as projectmanager you know you're making
(08:06):
sure that their vision getscommunicated to the rest of the
team.
If you are the game designerand trying to be the project
manager, then you're going towant these skills as well.
Matt (08:16):
I got a question what is the minimum amount of people
that should constitute a teamthat requires a project manager?
Courtney (08:25):
I.
Matt (08:27):
Is it only just you and one other person?
Is that good enough to putthese skills to work?
Courtney (08:32):
Yes, absolutely Honestly.
Even if it's just you knowinghow to plan out all of the steps
that you want to do andeverything you want to do for
your project, it's still goingto be useful to have all of
these skills.
Matt (08:47):
So, big or small project, this is helpful to everybody.
Courtney (08:50):
Absolutely yes.
Yeah, so I know a lot of what Isaid sounds kind of corporate,
so I want to just maybe give alittle bit of example.
You know so, matt, you'redesigning the game.
You found artists, you have aneditor, a sensitivity reader, a
layout designer.
You're having a really hardtime managing everybody.
People are missing deadlines.
You're communicating in threedifferent platforms, depending
(09:13):
on the person you're talking to.
Matt (09:16):
That's a nightmare.
That is a nightmare scenario.
Courtney (09:22):
I was just thinking about that.
Matt (09:23):
Wow, yeah, no, yeah, definitely want to rein that in.
Courtney (09:30):
So, yeah, these tools will help you.
Even if you are in thatsituation right now and you're
not kicking off a project,learning these tools is going to
help you get that team back ontrack, you know, get you a
schedule like come to anagreement about communication
tools.
Get you meeting deadlines.
Just help you know how to dealwith setbacks when things do go
(09:51):
wrong, because, unfortunately,no matter how much you plan, you
will still have issues.
But you can have a plan on howyou're going to deal with the
issues when they come up.
Matt (09:59):
I think also by being able to plan this stuff out, I think
it'll help a lot of peoplebuild the confidence to take the
steps forward, to evenembarking on some of these
projects.
Some people might just, hey,one day I want to do this.
But it's also once you startputting pen to paper and you can
see, end to end, what it isyou're trying to do, you might
go oh, I can do this in aweekend, so all right, yeah.
Courtney (10:24):
Absolutely.
Hey, entrepreneurs, I loveintroducing you to new creators
every episode, but I couldreally use your support.
I would love to invite you tojoin our Patreon page, where
you'll gain access to behind thescenes content.
Add your questions to upcominginterviews and you could even
receive a shout out on our sitein an upcoming episode.
To learn more, go tolightheartadventurescom.
(10:46):
Slash rpg and now back to theshow.
Okay, so I want to jump in toproject phases and again these
terms that I'm going on.
I get it, they're supercorporate, but the project
management professional thinghas been around for decades and
a lot of successful projectmanagers have learned it and,
(11:09):
like these, work for literallyany industry.
So I'm going to give you someexamples of like how you would
use it if you were designinglike a TTRBG or launching in
that store.
So the very first phase isproject initiation.
This is when you decide thatyou want to do a thing.
You're writing that game,you're writing that supplement,
you're going to make someproducts and put it out on Etsy
(11:31):
or your own store or what haveyou what you want to do.
Like the very first thing thatyou should do when you decide
that you want to make somethingis write out what you're trying
to accomplish.
You know what are you making.
What is your hope for, likeonce it's out there.
You know what kinds of peopleare you targeting, like who's
(11:52):
your audience?
Talked about that a lot incommunity building, but it's
important for this to know whatresources do you need to be able
to hit that goal.
If you're starting a store, Doyou need a logo?
Do you need different artworkto go like in the background?
Do you need, like an artist fordrawing, all of the art pieces
(12:13):
to go with in your game?
Are you going to do graphics orlayout yourself?
Like what skills do you havealready that you are willing and
able to do or willing and ableto learn to do yourself in the
project versus like what do youneed help with?
Because you are just, you can'tdraw, you're really bad at it,
so you know you're going to haveto find art somewhere.
Matt (12:34):
So let's say, I'm trying to make a TT RPG sticker store,
right?
So if I go through this, that'swhat I want to do, that's my
initiation goal.
And then let's see do I need alogo?
I will need a logo.
Do I need an artist?
I want an artist.
I can kind of draw, but let'smake this really super
(12:57):
successful and hire someone thatI like and maybe I can work
with someone in the community.
Cool, while you're going to dothe graphics and layout, I can
do the layout.
Sure, let's see skills.
Otherwise, I think we're ingood shape.
So, all right, I'm going to usethat as an example, because now
I want to make a sticker store.
Courtney (13:19):
Amazing.
So you start figuring all ofthat out and then that helps you
determine, like, who are thepeople that you need to find to
like help you get this done.
So also in project initiation,you start to find your team.
So you know, matt, for yoursticker store you want to find
an artist.
So now you're going to have togo and out and start sourcing
(13:40):
artists, which I see here.
It's not an expression.
Matt (13:44):
Yeah, it's funny because, like for me, I always want to
pick people that I've eitherworked with before or people who
aren't typically known for it,because I know there are a lot
of people who do sticker stuffand it's like they got their own
projects.
So let me reach out and grabpeople who might be comic book
artists or digital artists forother things, and I'll say, hey,
(14:05):
you want to.
Yeah, that's how I would try tofind people.
Courtney (14:10):
Yeah, and I feel like we can spend a whole other
episode just giving tips on,like how to find team members.
Matt (14:17):
I'm still in there.
Courtney (14:19):
And they realize like oh, but you know, this is
project initiation.
It's when you're looking foryour team, you know like.
Or if it's things like, oh, Ineed to start up an LLC, cool,
look for some YouTube videos onhow to do that, log articles,
find a consultant if you needone, you know, look into state
programs et cetera.
Like, help you get thatbusiness started.
All of that is what you'redoing in project initiation.
(14:40):
You are just finding your team,you're getting agreements going
.
Then you hit project planningand whether you are the project
manager and not the gamedesigner, or even if you're like
the game designer and you'retaking it on the PM role
yourself, you are honestly goingto spend more time in planning
(15:00):
than you are in the next phase,which is where you actually do
the creation.
And the reason for that isbecause the better plan you have
at the beginning, the smootheryour project is going to go.
So what are we doing in projectplanning?
Like you have your teamtogether.
You're going to make acommunication plan.
(15:21):
Like, okay, we are all meetingon discord, that's where we're
going to be, like our centralplace to talk about things and
give updates.
But we're also going to usethis thing called Asana or
Trello or Notion.
We will get to that in the nextepisode.
You're going to have like somesort of system where you track
all of the to do items and likewho's responsible and when it's
(15:42):
due.
You know like that's all goingto be part of your communication
plan and, like you know, areyou going to have meetings as a
project team Spoiler.
You should Figure out like howoften you're going to do that.
You're also going to do what'scalled.
You're going to define what'scalled the project scope.
So you are making a game.
(16:03):
You want it to be 100 pageslong.
How many art pieces do you need?
General rule of thumb is tohave 20 to 25% of the page count
in quarter size art pieces.
So you want 20 to 25 art piecesfor 100 page game that are a
quarter page.
You know that can change if youhave like larger pieces.
You know the number can adjust,but generally you're going to
(16:24):
need that many pieces of art.
So how many artists did youhire?
Okay, how long is it going totake each artist to work on each
of these pieces?
Like that all has to beaccounted for as you start to
develop your plan or yourtimeline.
Matt (16:39):
All right.
Courtney (16:39):
One thing I'm going to say is that it is absolutely
essential to plan out the scopeand decide on the scope at the
beginning of a project.
It's going to help you stick tothat plan throughout the
project, because it's very, verycommon for projects to get off
track because of somethingcalled scope creep.
Matt (17:00):
Oh yes, oh yes, so so, okay.
So for me who just made asticker company, I need to
define a project, and part ofthat would be what the scope
would be.
So say, my first stickerproject scope would be I wanted
50 unique types of stickers.
Would that count as scope?
Courtney (17:21):
It would.
Matt (17:22):
Okay, so I got my team.
We're now on a discord.
The icons, my face it smileswhen you click on it.
We all hang out there, we workon how we're going to make 50
stickers, but then someone says,well, what if we just did an
additional five more forsomething special?
(17:44):
What are we walking into here?
Courtney (17:46):
So that is what scope creep is, and it's very common
for things to come up.
You know, someone has a reallygood idea or like some issue
happens where like, oh, I justrealized I have to get like this
whole other certificationbefore I can start selling these
stickers.
Whatever it is, somethinghappens that could impact your
project and make a change andthe very first thing you got to
(18:09):
do is it say, hey, you know,that's a great idea, but hold on
, we need to compare it to thescope.
So that's where you go back toyour documentation, saying I'm
going to do 50 stickers and aspart of that, you would have
defined, like why 50, you knowwhat type of stickers are you
doing and you know theseadditional five stickers that
your artists is like, hey, weshould do this.
(18:30):
Well, talk to them, find out whythey want to do it and then
evaluate what the change wouldbe.
You know, like, how muchadditional time is this going to
take?
Like how much additionalresources?
Like how much do I have to paythese artists because that's
going to impact the budget tosuddenly have to pay for five
more stickers, or is this areally good idea and it's worth
(18:51):
it and we don't do five stickersthat were originally planned
for.
Like, you have to analyze theimpact before you actually move
forward, because when you don'tanalyze the impact, it just
screws your entire project up.
Matt (19:07):
So it sounds to me like if you want to manage a project
properly, it really kind ofdemands that you're honest about
yourself and you're disciplinedwith your goals.
And that can be difficultbecause I want to make
everything all the time and Iwant to tell myself that I can
do it.
But this project managementsystem will rain me in and I
(19:31):
will see through my originalgoal, which is something I wish
I had 10 years ago.
Courtney (19:39):
The way to think about it is like I honestly rarely
say no.
When someone says, hey, I wantto do this additional thing, I
say, okay, let's think about it.
Like, sure, we can do that.
Here's how much it's going toadd to the budget, here's how
long it's going to extend, likewhen we can go live.
And when you think about it inthose terms or present it in
(20:02):
those terms to the person saying, hey, we should make this
change, and a lot of the timethey go, oh yeah, sorry, I can't
actually afford to pay for morethings right now, so I guess
we'll hold that to a laterproject.
Or if they think, no, it'sworth it, great, Let me make
some change.
Documentation, saying that weare going to make this change
because you want to documenteverything as a project manager,
(20:23):
so I think we'll have to adjustyour project plan.
Matt (20:27):
So it really takes being mindful of the impact of any
changes you want to do.
Courtney (20:32):
Definitely All right.
There's some more things you'regoing to do in the planning
phase is building, not yourbudget?
Where is it coming from?
Are you fronting the costs?
Are you crowdfunding?
How much are you paying each ofyour team members?
When is that payment due?
On what schedule?
(20:53):
How much of that payment isdependent on your crowdfund
being successful.
Honestly, I have always hatedaccounting, so it's not my
favorite part, but it isdefinitely an essential part
Because, again, if an artist islike, hey, let's do five more
stickers, you need to know howmuch that artist charges and
figure out if you can fit thatinto your budget or not.
Matt (21:15):
I find that, as an accountant myself, when you are
working with people specificallyfriends on a large project that
can involve money, make it thefirst thing you talk about, just
so I know everyone can getcaught up in the idea of I love
this creative project.
This is really cool.
I'm excited to work with all ofyou.
Nail those things down sopeople aren't thinking about it
(21:38):
later, because if it weighs onpeople and people are like I
don't want to bring it up, Idon't want to be the one to talk
about it, what's going on here?
And then, like your firstdiscussion ends with no one
saying anything, everyone'sgoing to be nervous to come back
and talk about it again.
That's my experience.
Just get it out.
Hey, this is what we're lookingat.
Figure your budget out andfigure out any agreements that
(22:01):
you have with the people thatare involved and how those all
work.
Courtney (22:06):
Yeah, it is super, super important.
So many people in this spaceare like, oh you know, I get
like it's a small budget andlike they charge nowhere near
what they're worth.
But regardless, it's figuringout like how much you're going
to pay them and getting you knowif that's just like a deposit
(22:26):
to reserve their services.
Make sure that you have thatmoney like ready to go.
So some more things that you'regoing to plan out in this big
phase Like I said, it is thebiggest one is really like you
have found your team.
You've figured out, like youknow what they're charging, how
quickly they work.
You've laid out all of the stepsthat you want to do to get this
(22:48):
project done.
That's when you get to actuallyfigure out the timeline and you
know what things can overlap.
Like artists can be working onart pieces while you're, you
know, figuring out how to set upan LLC and set up your sticker
store.
Like you can definitely makesure that things overlap, but
you want to make sure that yougive enough time for those
(23:08):
artists to present the stickerdesigns to you and then you
review them and then you givefeedback and they revise and you
probably want to have a coupleof revision processes built into
this timeline, as you want tomake sure that things are
happening in a timely manner,but you're not stressing people
out because you gave them toolittle time to do it.
(23:29):
And life happens Things come up, people fall behind.
You don't have a plan on howyou're going to react if things
like get delayed or if an artistsuddenly has to drop out of the
project.
It's going to be stressful.
Matt (23:42):
Oh yeah.
So for my example, here I gotmy sticker guys.
I've hired two artists who I'mgoing to pay upfront and they're
just going to work on, say, 10stickers in this first, I don't
know, sprint.
Do we recall this as a sprint?
In this case?
That's just me and my agilebackground.
(24:03):
But what would you?
Is there any term for it forwaterfall?
Courtney (24:08):
Not this phase.
Matt (24:09):
Phase.
Okay.
So our phase here we areworking on getting 20 stickers
set out.
I've already paid them upfront.
They're going to do the thing.
I set up the LLC.
I'm going to probably also setup where these stickers are
going to sell at the same time,because I want these to be seen
by people.
I know my budget.
I got the talent covered.
(24:29):
I'm going to set aside a littlebit for marketing, which means
probably reaching out to someinfluencers and saying hey, I
need you to put this sticker onsomething that you care about.
That's your thing.
I'm going to pay you for that.
And then suddenly an artistdrops out.
Now I got to figure out Ipromise 20 stickers.
(24:50):
Now I'm scrambling Find anotherartist, but fortunately it
doesn't.
It's not.
It's a lot less of a panic,because I have my plan and I can
stick to.
I just need to replace this oneperson, or maybe use two
instead.
Courtney (25:05):
Yep, so that is risk management.
You know they're like okay ifan artist drops out.
I have already identified thatthese are some other artists I
would be interested in workingwith, or I know that the other
artists that didn't drop outwould be able to take on a
couple more of these designs.
Those are all things thatyou're going to like.
I've tried to figure out aheadof time or like planned out just
(25:27):
in case something bad happens.
Matt (25:29):
So you would include contingency planning and
planning.
Courtney (25:33):
Yes would, yes, I would.
Matt (25:34):
That's brilliant.
Yes, absolutely do that, yes.
Courtney (25:39):
So, yeah, like there is a ton of stuff to do on
project planning.
So once you get a plan together, you are going to move on to
what's called project execution.
So this is the time that theartists are actually doing the
work of drawing the stickers.
You are doing the work oflooking into that, like how to
(25:59):
set up an LSE, how to set upthat sticker store.
If you are the person that isin charge of the work, if you
are the project manager, whatyou're doing during this time is
, honestly, a whole lot of catwrangling.
You are checking in with theproject team on whatever basis
you established and agreed towithin your communication plan.
(26:22):
So if that's going to be aweekly check-in on Discord to
just say, hey, how's it going,do you have any issues?
Whatever that rhythm is, thisis the time that you're doing
that.
Something that I like toestablish, especially with
people that are not used toworking with a project manager,
is to say, hey, I'm going to bechecking in with you on how
(26:43):
things are going.
I want you to know you're notin trouble.
There have been so many timeswhere people are like freaked
out that I'm talking to themlike I'm going to get it done
and I'm just like, hey, it's allcool, I just want to make sure
that you're doing good, thethings are on track.
If you're running into issues,I want to know what those issues
are so I can help you figurethem out.
It's just a time to be like,hey, how's it going?
Matt (27:05):
Like a quality of life check-in.
Courtney (27:07):
Yes, so you're doing your check-in, you're monitoring
the schedule to say all right,artist number one is supposed to
be turning in three stickers onFriday.
I haven't heard from them in awhile.
I didn't respond to my lastcheck-in.
I'm going to check in again andfind out.
Oh yeah, they're on track.
(27:27):
Great, don't forget to uploadthem to Alessana or whatever
tool you're using so that we canget the review going.
We're just doing that and you,like I said earlier, want to
document everything.
Every update, whether it's goodor bad.
Make sure that you are adding acomment onto that topic
(27:49):
wherever you are tracking yourprojects, just so that, let's
say, something bad happens andsomeone else has to step in and
help monitor, they're able tosee what happened.
Or, honestly, like you talk tosomebody and then it's been
three weeks, you're notnecessarily going to remember
what they said three weeks ago.
Matt (28:07):
Yeah, yeah, for me it's normally.
I have so many projects thatI'm working on that if I didn't
have those kind of notes, I needsomeone to catch me back up on
what we're doing.
So, yeah, yeah, anyone who doesdocumentation does those notes.
Thank you.
Courtney (28:24):
Yeah.
So if somebody is runningbehind, this is when you are
juggling balls to say, okay, Iget it, you're not going to be
able to turn your art in on time.
How is this going to impact theproject?
Did we have wiggle room builtin?
Is it okay that, instead of youhaving three days to review
their art, you only have one dayto review their art because
(28:44):
they're going to be two dayslate?
Or do I need to pull in adifferent artist to cover some
of the sticker drawings?
You have your contingency planthat you've already laid out and
you just follow that.
You work through what theimpact is going to be and help
come to a decision on how tomove on.
Matt (29:06):
So we're getting it all done.
Now the stickers are inproduction, everyone's on task,
everyone's on schedule and we'regetting results.
So far, so good.
Courtney (29:18):
Eventually you launch your sticker store Woo.
Matt (29:23):
I'm excited yeah.
Courtney (29:25):
That sticker store launches, you move into the
second to last phase, which ismonitoring and controlling.
Now, to be fair, the type ofprojects that you're doing in
TTRBGs.
You're probably not going tohave to spend a ton of time in
this phase for your stickerstore.
That would essentially be likeyou're waiting to get feedback
from customers.
You find out after the firstweek or two that, oh, one of the
(29:49):
stickers got misprinted or itwas cut wrong.
So then you would go in anddeal with fixing that If you
were designing a game.
You've sent the book out and,oh no, some people found some
typos that didn't get caught.
So let's go ahead and make surethat's documented and fixed for
the next printing and updatedin the PDF version.
(30:10):
It's just kind of monitoringeverything, making sure that
things are moving along, thingsare good, before you can say I
am done with this project.
Matt (30:21):
This is long past the phase of needing beta testers.
You've already got everythingyour first wave of critiques
from friends and that sort ofthing, and then you've actually
launched it and now you'reresponding to the feedback for
version 1.01.
Courtney (30:37):
Exactly, Love it and eventually you say, all right,
well, I might get feedback thatwould impact a later version.
I'm going to officially closethis project.
So what you should do at thispoint essentially, when things
are stable, you don't anticipateany other changes you want to
do things like archiving all ofyour documents, any
(31:01):
conversations that are worthcopy pasting into a section
where you know that you canreference it later.
You want to have a lessonslearned area, especially if you
are going to do this type ofproject again.
Just document things that youfigured out.
Man, etsy charges a whole lot offees, so I don't ever want to
(31:21):
move on to Etsy.
I want to make sure that I setup my own store, things like
that.
If it was about the game likeokay, I learned that with this
particular artist, they saidthey were only going to need two
weeks to draw this art piece,but actually it took them like
four weeks.
So I want to make sure that Ibudget for a much longer time if
(31:43):
I work with this artist again.
This isn't a time to rag onpeople.
It's just to make notes so thatyou know how to do this again
in the future if you want to.
Matt (31:53):
Could you revisit your ideas of Project Creep here?
Courtney (31:57):
Absolutely.
Matt (31:58):
Okay, so I can get those extra five stickers.
Let's lock those guys down.
Courtney (32:04):
Well, yeah, so if you had decided not to do the five
stickers, you can say, all right, well, we're going to do a
second phase of this projectwhere those five stickers are
going to get made.
Yeah, so you want to documentstuff either.
You know, if you want to Worddocument at Google Doc, whether
it's a place in your Asana board, what have you just someplace
(32:25):
that you know that you canreference in the future?
Another thing if you're goingto meet with these people or
work with these people again inthe future, a postmortem is
actually super helpful.
This is just a meeting whereyou get to get together with
everybody, reflect on how theproject went, what went well,
what went wrong.
You know you especially want tolike set ground rules at the
beginning.
I'm like we're not here to likeyell at each other, like get
(32:49):
mad.
You know, it's just want torespectfully talk about things
and how we could do it betterthe next time.
Matt (32:56):
Nice.
I usually call that the victorylap and debrief.
Courtney (33:01):
I like it.
Okay, that was a lot.
I know that was a crash course.
We are going to dig a littlebit deeper into some other
things in the next couple ofepisodes To give you a bit more
like specific examples, butbefore we do that, you have
homework, because I just lovethat we started establishing
(33:22):
homework and things that youguys can actually be doing in
between these episodes.
First thing I want you to dowhat project do you have either
going on or that you want tostart?
Where are you within thatproject, if you've already begun
, or what kinds of things do youwant to do to get started in
the future?
Spend some time thinking aboutwhat is going well versus what
(33:43):
is not going well and what youwould like to change.
Write out your goals, what areyou trying to accomplish and,
more importantly, why.
You want to make sure that youare holding onto the why of that
project throughout the entiretime, because it will keep you
motivated even when things aregoing bad.
And then, finally, for now,what resources do you need to
(34:08):
find or recruit for this project?
Matt (34:12):
Excellent.
I think for people who strugglewith the motivation to actually
get things done, your step oneshould be making this list.
So begin here.
Use that momentum, startfilling it out, start making
some progress.
You will get to where you'retrying to go.
Courtney (34:27):
And our next proficiency check.
We are going to dig intoproject management tools and how
to actually start making theseplans that we talked about.
So check in.
In one week I'll have a lovelyinterview with another 2TRPG
creator, and then in two weekswe will continue the deep dive
into project management.
Matt (34:49):
And hit us up, we can talk about it.
Courtney (34:51):
Yep, so you can find us in a lot of places, because
there are a lot of places tolook right now.
Roleplaygrow has its ownaccount on Blue Sky and threads
and Instagram.
If you are trying to find me,I'm either Ketra or Ketra RPG,
depending on the platform.
Matt (35:12):
Yeah, if you're looking for me, it's Mad Joro.
I am dungeon glitch everywhere,but really, if you want to talk
to me, you can email me atglitch at gemfireflycom or hit
me up on threads today for ourMad this week.
Who knows?
Do my best, man.
(35:33):
That whole thing fractured.
Courtney (35:36):
I know it's hard, but you can always find us at
roleplaygrow at gmailcom too, ifeverything fails and dies.
Matt (35:47):
When yes, all right.
Courtney (35:52):
Well, thank you guys for listening and we will catch
you next time.
Matt (35:55):
Thank you, everybody Do your homework.
Courtney (36:00):
You just finished another episode of RoleplayGrow.
To check out the show notes andtranscript from today's episode
, you can go tolightheartadventures.
com/ rpg To keep up with everyepisode.
Please subscribe on yourpodcast player of choice and, if
you're enjoying the show, Iwould absolutely love if you
would leave me a review andshare this episode with your
(36:21):
friends.
Your review might even getfeatured on an upcoming episode.
To contact us, you can emailrollplaygrow@ gmail.
com.
There are a lot of social mediasites out there right now, so
look for roleplaygrow for theshow account and look for either
Ketra or KetraRPG for myaccounts and Dungeon Glitch for
(36:41):
Matt's accounts.
Lastly, I want to give aspecial shout out to our editor,
Sam Atkinson.
Your help is always appreciated.
Sam, Thank you all so much forlistening and I'll see you next
time on Roll Play Grow.
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