October 3, 2023 • 31 mins
Ever feel overwhelmed by managing your tabletop role-play game project? We've been there, and we've got your back! We spent this episode of Roll Play Grow diving deep into the world of project management tools. We shed light on how tools like Asana, Wrike, Notion, and Trello can help simplify your task organization, role assignment, note-taking, and deadline setting. Whether you're drawn to the free version of Asana, the extensive database capabilities of Notion, or the beginner-friendly interface of Trello, we've got the insights you need.
Let's not stop there, though. We also tackled the planning and execution of a Monster Manual. We broke down how to create effective timelines, manage revision cycles, and implement communication strategies to get everyone on the same page. Communication is the key to keeping your team motivated, and we provided tips on building those essential relationships with your team members. We also discussed spotting signs of dwindling motivation and adjusting accordingly. We believe in celebrating every success, big or small because they all contribute to the bigger picture. So, tune in, gather some crucial pointers, and level up your game project management skills!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Courtney (00:08):
Hello and welcome to Roll Play Grow, the podcast for
tabletop entrepreneurs, creatorsand fans.
In this show, we dig intoprocesses, challenges, tips and
really look at how to grow abusiness in the tabletop
role-play gaming space.
Sit back and join in as welearn from the creators behind
your favorite brands about whothey are and how they are
turning their passion for gaminginto a career.
(00:29):
Welcome to Roll Play Grow, thebi-monthly sanctuary where
fantasy meets reality.
I'm Courtney Stover.
Matt (00:36):
And I'm Matt Joro.
Courtney (00:38):
Today we are diving into one of our special episodes
of the Proficiency Check.
Here we equip TTRPG creatorswith the tools, business
insights and skills to level uptheir game.
So grab your notebooks,adventurers, because it is time
to roll, play, and grow.
Matt (00:55):
Today we want to dig into the project management tools
what they are and how to usethem as part two of the project
management episodes.
There are a bunch of resourcesout there that you can use to
help you stay organized and dothe project planning that we
talked about two weeks ago.
They do things like let youlist out action items and
(01:17):
individual tasks, assign them topeople, set deadlines and take
notes on individual tasks.
Courtney, where do we begintoday?
Courtney (01:29):
So I want to talk about some of the resources that
are available out there, and Iknow I mentioned one a lot last
time called Asana, but therereally are a bunch and I think
we'll talk about a few of themtoday.
But essentially, like Matt justsaid, they are places where you
can build out a project board,a project plan, as you are
(01:53):
figuring out all of the thingsthat we talked about last time.
Who's your project team?
You're going to add them tothis project board.
What is your communication plangoing to be Great, throw that
into your project managementsystem.
What are all the things thatyou're going to have to do to
make this project come to life?
You're going to start creatingindividual tasks on one of these
(02:15):
platforms with everything thatMatt just said.
So I prefer to use Asana on myTTRPG project.
There are a couple others outthere that I use for other
things.
Honestly, if I'm being, if Ihad all of the budget, I would
use something called Rike.
I use it in my nine to five job, but it frankly, isn't as good
(02:39):
like the free version, and paidversion is not something that I
feel like paying for at themoment.
So I use Asana and the thingsthat you can do on there are.
In the free version.
You can invite up to 15 peopleon your team where everybody
would be able to have access tosee the project boards.
You can create private boardsthat are private to just you.
(02:59):
Unfortunately, with the freeversion you can only make it
private to you.
The rest of it would be to yourteam.
The paid versions you can startinviting people to see like
specific boards, but we'remostly going to focus on free
things for you in this episode.
So, anyways, you can have up to15 people in your team.
(03:20):
They will see any board thatyou make.
So you can make a board that isgoing to be All right.
Here is the marketing plan forthe sticker store that you're
starting up and here is the artproject board.
So we're going to list outeverything that all of the
artists are working on.
We're going to make anotherboard for meeting notes just to
(03:41):
like have one spot whereeverybody can refer to any of
the project check-in stuff, likewhat happened.
Really, you can make as manyboards as you want, but it's
going to be a good repository tosee what all is happening, get
files uploaded to it and do allsorts of fun features, like.
You've got your own personalinbox, so anytime somebody tags
you and like a comment orsomething, then you know exactly
(04:04):
where to go.
You can go straight there fromyour inbox.
Matt (04:08):
Awesome.
I use Asana professionally butfor my own projects when I'm
working on my own in this space.
For my own projects, I'll useNotion, because there's a lot of
different things you canactually do with it.
And when you find your ownstyle, like I use the
collapsible menus, that sort ofstuff, and you can actually, if
you really want to get into it,create like a database and
(04:31):
that's it's more advanced.
But if you have a lot ofinformation say you're building
a world or something like that,and you want to be able to hey,
I want to check out this NPC.
Where is he from?
What do they do?
Who do they know?
You can create a database thatwill, just one click, show you
all of your information.
It's wonderful.
It takes a little time to getused to.
(04:52):
Youtube videos will show youall of it.
It's wonderful.
I'm not using that.
I'm literally using the back ofjunk mail and just writing it
and leaving it on my desk.
Courtney (05:03):
Okay, well, we don't want to do that.
Matt (05:05):
Right, yeah, but I, but I still write something down at
least.
Courtney (05:12):
That's interesting.
I've seen so manyadvertisements for Notion but I
haven't used it yet, mostlybecause I've been like oh, I've
got a project management thing Ilike using, like that's fine,
but that's really interestingabout being able to build a more
of like a database.
Matt (05:27):
Yeah, there's a ton of stuff you can do with it.
I haven't explored too deeplybeyond the things that I wanted
it for, but I know some peopleare doing some amazing things
with it and notions free.
You can go there right now.
Courtney (05:39):
Okay, okay, awesome.
Well, I'm definitely going tocheck that one out Some other
ones that are out there.
I know Trello is a very popularstarter one.
I'll be honest, I don't reallylike Trello all that much.
I feel like it doesn't haveenough, and if you want the look
of the Trello board with thecolumns where you can move the
(06:02):
tasks around as you want to, youcan have a board view in Asana.
So I just do that.
But it is a good starterresource that a lot of people
like to use.
It's free.
Matt (06:13):
Yeah, instead of using Trello, what I used to do is I
would just take a whole pad ofsticky notes and just use an
entire wall, and that was myTrello.
I would just move things overand then eventually, I would
have a pile of sticky notes onthe ground until I was done.
Courtney (06:29):
I love that Kanban lifestyle huh.
Matt (06:32):
Yes, yes.
Courtney (06:35):
Do you want to explain Kanban?
Matt (06:36):
No, no, I don't.
Courtney (06:42):
And up.
Yeah, kanban is aorganizational tool that you can
use to keep track of what ishappening.
You know what are to do itemsyou're going to have to get to
eventually.
What are you going to focus on,too, and what are you focusing
on now and what did you actuallyfinish?
You can do actual sticky notes,like Matt said, and it's kind
(07:07):
of fun to do it like that, butvery messy.
Or you can use Trello or theSoda Board or whatever.
Matt (07:14):
It's just more fun when I can hold it in my hand.
Courtney (07:16):
Tearing it off the wall is so satisfying Sure sure
I do still use like an actualpen and paper agenda for my
daily stuff because I just likethe activity of writing things
down.
Matt (07:28):
Yes.
Courtney (07:30):
So you use Notion?
What are some other tools thatyou use to keep organized, Matt?
Matt (07:35):
I'm pretty basic.
I will use an entire Discordserver and just make as many
channels and posts and edit themas we go, and it's easy for
people to just kind of like popin.
I use it for Dungeons andDragons a lot, so for my
(07:56):
professional games, people willwant to know the updates of what
happened in any games that theymissed or who are these NPCs.
I'll just make a channel.
All the information is there.
But I also know that if I needto adjust things, I can also
give people homework so thatthey know what they need to do.
(08:16):
I can communicate with them ontheir own schedule.
So that's the free, supersimple version that I do.
For people who don't want tosay you don't want to be part of
a team on a random site, buteveryone's on Discord, it works.
Courtney (08:37):
Yeah, I find that it's easiest to use Discord for just
chatting about what's going onwith the thing, but the reason
that you want to use somethinglike Notion as on a red fellow,
whatever it is that you wind uppicking is because it helps you
actually lay out your projectplan with dates of when is it
(09:01):
going to be worked on, when isthe due date, who is doing what.
So that's actually somethingthat I wanted to talk about.
Next was giving an example ofhow you would actually create a
task on whatever system youchoose.
So I know we were talking aboutthe stickers.
(09:22):
I do want to give the example,though, of if you are creating a
monster for your TTRPG.
Matt (09:29):
Perfect.
Yeah, let's do where we'remaking.
What do you want to do?
A monster manual this time?
Courtney (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Well, break it down and do amonster manual.
Matt (09:41):
All right.
Courtney (09:43):
One of the things that you would have done is figure
out how many monsters are youmaking in your monster manual.
Are you going to have 50monsters?
Great, you are going to have toidentify what all of those
monsters are going to be.
Let's say that you have a swampmonster.
Matt, do you want to name aswamp?
Do you want to name?
Matt (10:00):
a swamp monster.
This monster is specificallynamed sludge.
Courtney (10:04):
Sludge.
Matt (10:04):
Okay.
Courtney (10:05):
So you are going to create what is called a parent
task.
That is going to be createsludge the swamp monster, and
then you're going to have adescription area, write out a
note on who sludge is.
You know like, what is hesupposed to be?
What kind of resources are yougoing to grab for inspiration
(10:28):
for writing out all of thethings?
It's going to be high levelnotes for this parent task.
Then, within that task, youshould have the ability to
create sub tasks and, like Imentioned a couple of weeks ago,
planning, plan everything.
You want to plan out everysingle step and it feels tedious
(10:51):
, but if you do this, you aregoing to realize how many steps
there are to get sludge to hisamazing glory and you're going
to make sure that you haveenough time to do it that
everybody is able to do the workthat they need to do.
So here are some examples ofsub tasks that you would do for
sludge Is draft description ofsludge the swamp monster.
(11:16):
This isn't like the finalversion.
It's just write up a draft ofhis description and then write
up a draft of the stat block andthen you're going to have a sub
task that's reviewed, thedescription and stat block.
That could be.
If you're the one that wrotethe description, you want to
send it off to somebody else tolook at for feedback.
(11:36):
If somebody else is the onethat wrote up this description,
you would be the one reviewingit.
But you're going to review andmake sure you budget out some
time to revise sludge'sdescription and stat block, and
then you need to sign off.
Eventually you're going to getto it where you're like sludge
is perfect.
This is exactly what I wantsludge to be.
(11:56):
Meanwhile, other sub tasks thatyou would have would be grab
concept art for sludge fromstock images.
Now do a Google search.
What do you find for swampmonsters.
Get some concept arts togetherthat you can then, for your next
sub task, send your off yourconcept art for sludge.
Then again, you want to have areview and revision cycle.
(12:18):
So have some tasks laid out forthose and then sign off on it's
swap monster art.
And then what are you doingwith it?
Is it just going to like sit ina draft or like in a folder,
somewhere that you knoweventually you'll have everybody
ready to go and then you startgoing into layout.
Great, make sure that you havea task for put it in that folder
, whatever it is, is going to bethe final, like it's published.
If you will, personally, I liketo lay out all of these steps
(12:42):
and then figure out when they'regoing to happen, which you know
depending on if you have adeadline you're working towards
already, you can work backwards.
If you don't have a deadline,you can work forwards.
So you know things like okay,I've got a deadline in three
months that has to be done.
So the signing off on the artand the descriptions has to be
(13:06):
done by the day before thatdeadline and it's going to take
three days for me to review it.
So I'm going to have a threeday window, which means that the
final revision needs to be donefour days before that deadline
and it's going to take threeweeks for that review and
revision time period.
So okay, and you just work yourway backwards.
Alternatively, if you don'thave a deadline that you're
(13:26):
working towards, then you startat the front and say, all right,
drafting time going to take twoweeks, I will give two weeks
and then, after those two weeks,I'm going to give myself three
days to review and then we'regoing to do another two weeks to
revise and just you workforwards until you kind of
figure out like, okay, how longis it going to take to do this
or each one of those monsters?
Matt (13:47):
Huh, so?
So essentially, I come up withsludge and I say I sit down, I
write sludge, what they looklike in their stats, and I say,
hey, courtney, I got a two daydeadline and you take a look at
this for me, you do it, you sendit back to me, I make any
changes that you recommend ontime, and then I go figure out
(14:08):
what the art is supposed to be.
We get the art made and we signoff on the whole thing and
we're on schedule and it'sreviewed and stamped, marked
done.
Courtney (14:18):
Exactly.
Matt (14:19):
Wonderful yeah.
Courtney (14:22):
So I realize that, like planning out all of those
different sub tasks can feelreally tedious at the beginning,
especially if you're not usedto doing it.
So some ways that help,honestly, are to make up a
little template.
So, okay, we're going to have50 monsters, I've written out
everything for sludge, all ofthese sub tasks, you know, I've
(14:43):
assigned who the artist is goingto be and I'm just going to
copy this task with all of itsub tasks and I'm going to paste
and then, instead of sludge theswap monster it's a different
one, but you know, essentiallythen you can just like have that
(15:05):
as a template and copy paste itlike 50 times if that's what it
takes, and then just makeadjustments on like who's doing
each individual art piece, likewho's drafting each monster.
The one thing that you knowyou'll want to make sure you're
doing is like spacing it out towhere you know.
If I need two weeks to write upsludges, description and stop
(15:27):
lock, but I'm also working on abunch of other monsters too.
I can probably work on multipleat the same time.
You know, just that is wherethat communication is really
vital with coming with yourtalking to your team to find out
, like you know, okay, in like atwo week time period, how many
of these could you be working onto be able to turn into all at
(15:47):
the same time for review?
You know, and then you couldhave some overlapping.
You want to stagger some sothat you know, while I'm
reviewing, sludge you matter,going ahead and working on like
a few more.
And you know, you're just kindof pieced it all together.
Matt (16:03):
Absolutely.
We'll get through this monstermanual.
I'm excited about it.
Courtney (16:09):
I am too.
Matt (16:12):
And you know it's funny.
I like to remind people, too,that when they get to the things
that feel tedious or difficult,that if you're really trying to
succeed, any part that you getstuck on is where a lot of
people get stuck.
So all you have to do tosucceed is get through that one
part where most people quit andyou're automatically ahead of
everybody else.
So if this feels tedious, ifyou're running through this and
(16:36):
you just want to tear your faceoff, just keep going and you
will make it.
Courtney (16:42):
Yeah, it's very, very true.
And the thing to keep in mindis, like you know, if you can
just get through it, know thatonce you get to the execution
phase that we talked about twoweeks ago, like you are going to
feel so much better because youknow exactly like, alright, for
the month of December andJanuary, we are working on
(17:03):
drafting up all of thesemonsters for the monster manual.
You know, simultaneously you'vegot the whole game getting
designed too, you know, andyou're just piecing everything
together, and just having all ofthe steps laid out means that
it's super easy to just go checkin.
You know, third week ofDecember to be like, okay, we've
got the holidays coming up nextweek.
I know a lot of people aretaking time off, so that's cool.
(17:24):
I mean, you know what?
I should probably just have aconversation to be like hey,
have a good time over theholidays.
We'll meet back up after NewYear's.
And just as a reminder, like,your due date for these
descriptions or these art piecesis the second week of January,
so just want to make sure that,like, that's top of your mind as
you head into the holidays.
Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, have fun.
Matt (17:48):
Mindful planning, good communication, making sure you
understand what is important tothe people that you work with
100%.
Courtney (17:57):
Hey, entrepreneurs, I love introducing you to new
creators every episode, but Icould really use your support.
I would love to invite you tojoin our Patreon page, where
you'll gain access to behind thescenes content.
Add your questions to upcominginterviews and you could even
receive a shout out on our sitein an upcoming episode.
To learn more, go tolightheartadventurescom.
And now back to the show.
(18:23):
Okay, so we figured out.
You know getting the projectplan together on whatever tool
it is that you're using.
Let's talk about actuallymaking this stuff happen.
So the more that you plan, themore that you're going to be
able to work on.
You know knowing how oftenyou're supposed to check in with
people, making sure that you'reaccounting for any of those
(18:46):
risks that we talked about twoweeks ago.
Where something goes on and anartist drops out, you need to
replace them or shuffle theirassignments to somebody else.
Knowing how to respond to thatissue will help your stress keep
your stress levels down.
One thing that I really wantedto make sure we talk about is a
question that we actually gotfrom a couple people on social
(19:08):
media, which was how do you herdthe cats?
How do you keep peoplemotivated and focused on the
project?
Matt (19:19):
Um, so what I like to do is I mean, if I can't bring
everyone in at the same time andget that infectious sort of hey
, we're doing this, it'sfantastic, everything's going to
be the best, then I like toremind people.
Well, I first like to figureout why people want to be part
of a project.
If it can connect to somethingthat they care about, whether it
(19:42):
is monetary or virtue or someother thing that is important to
them, then I know what toremind them of.
Later, when things getdifficult, Simon Sinek will tell
you.
Begin with why, and that worksevery time.
When you get stuck, when yourteammates get stuck, check in
with them.
This is what we're doing.
(20:04):
Does this still sound good toyou?
And have those conversations.
Make sure everyone'scomfortable, be on the same page
, in the same headspace, and bewilling to adapt and adjust,
because sometimes people do losethat motivation, and you got to
be okay with that.
Because sometimes you knowdragging things out will only
(20:26):
slow everything down and hurt iteven more, and just letting
people go is also part ofproject management.
So when you're working on thisand you're working with people,
again, it's always going to becommunication.
Courtney (20:41):
Yeah, 100%.
You know, like there's somethings that you can do
preemptively, especially ifyou're at the beginning of the
project, which, beyondestablishing a communication
plan, it's also just building arelationship with your team
members, like you want them totrust you, you want them to feel
comfortable coming to you ifthey are having an issue.
(21:03):
Beyond the regular check-inmeetings that we've briefly
discussed, like with everybody,have regular check-ins with each
of your team members and, youknow, don't make it just about
the project, make it also abouthow you're doing in hell's life.
Like you know, I saw thisreally cute picture of your dog.
Like, tell me about your dog,because it just establishes
(21:26):
trust and gets them to feel likethey know that if something's
going wrong, you're not going toyell at them about it.
Especially in this industry, alot of us are indie.
You know we're just trying tomake our way and stuff happens,
stuff comes up, and so if theyknow that they can come to you
with a problem and that you willnot only listen but also work
(21:47):
to help them solve it, you'regoing to be able to keep the
project moving, keep them happyand motivated to keep working on
things.
You know.
So it's really a lot of it ispreventative things that you can
do.
But you know, sometimes moraleis low and things happen and you
know, like you said, matt, likeyou need to be able to
(22:08):
recognize if someone is just notgoing to be able to continue on
with the project and doesn'treally have an interest in doing
so.
Like, make sure that you know,stay respectful, but it's okay
to let them go when you have to.
Matt (22:22):
Yep happens all the time, a lot of people will say higher,
slow fire, fast.
But I always have that spot inmy heart where it's like I want
to give this person a chance andit's like sometimes it works
out great.
Sometimes it is a mistake, butbeing honest with them and
yourself will be what gets youthrough it.
And with this plan, then youalready know the risks and
(22:45):
impact to your budget and yourschedule and you have to measure
things accordingly when youneed to make these leadership
decisions.
So you are well equipped here,instead of just going by the gut
and feeling like I don't wantto call this person anymore.
Yeah absolutely.
Courtney (23:04):
You know like it sucks when it happens.
But if you know going in thatit could happen, then at least
you know how to deal with itwhen it does.
But just because somebody ishaving a hard time doesn't
necessarily mean that they needto leave at the project.
So you're going to want to justdo that personal, like
one-on-one check-in.
(23:25):
Is there something going on intheir personal life and they
just need to deal with it for acouple of weeks?
But then they can come back.
Okay, how much can you delaythe stuff they were working on?
Is there someone else you canshift it off to?
Maybe they're just feelingdisconnected and it's like, okay
, cool, I will make sure that wedo some more stuff with the
team so that we can do some showand tells and see like what it
(23:47):
is that they're working on.
It's one thing that I'velearned and just seen over the
last decade is that when projectteam members can see more of
the project than just whatthey're working on and when they
understand the impact thattheir things have on the other
team members and honestly mostpeople feel motivated then to
(24:09):
not let the other folks down andso like having a little bit of
a show and tell them say like,hey, this is what I've been
working on and it's still indevelopment.
Would love your feedback.
That can help inspire them ifthey're feeling stuck and it
helps them realize like, ooh,yeah, you are waiting on my art
to put into your layout.
I really need to finish thispiece.
Let me work on that for you.
Matt (24:31):
Yeah, that sort of thing I actually found worked out
really well for me on my lastbig project, because it was a
lot less of hey, get your pieceover, it's a handoff, do your
thing, it sort of.
We developed this sort ofspeech where it was almost like
hey, who have you helped today?
Who helped you today?
And it's examining the impactand the meaning of your progress
(24:56):
and because of that, everyonesort of just felt more attached,
more integrated and justimmersed in the project and in
the end they felt a lot morepride as a team because it was
like, hey, I got to make thiseasier for someone because I did
it, I did it on time, it wasperfect, we're an excellent team
.
And like, hey, high five, wewere on the other side of the
(25:18):
world, but this is fantastic andyou're great to work with, as
opposed to, again, justchecklists.
Courtney (25:25):
There is one thing that you will make as a project
manager.
It will be every checklist youcan possibly think of.
Matt (25:34):
Oh yeah.
Courtney (25:36):
Okay, I think that that is a good point to wrap up
today.
So, as usual, you have somehomework.
You are gonna take what you didafter the last episode, which
was thinking about what is yourgoal, what is your why?
What is like project are youmaking?
What do you need?
(25:56):
What are you missing?
And then you are going to lookat some of the resources that we
talked about, which I will havelinked in the show notes, about
Notion Asana.
I'll even give you a Trello soyou can look at it if you want
to, but you're gonna pick one ora couple and you're gonna just
experiment with them, make afree account, play around, find
out which one you like until youget a little bit of a system
(26:21):
going.
And then you are gonna take thegoals that you laid out and
just make a board that isproject goals and write it all
out so it's documented, and thenstart making some other boards.
Like, okay, I am starting mysticker store, so I'm gonna have
a whole project board that isaround getting the LLC started
(26:44):
and setting up the actual webstore.
And then I'm gonna have aproject board that is about
working with artists to designall of my 50 stickers.
You're gonna just start playingaround and then, if you've got
a project team, you can startadding them to it, but your main
homework is to find the systemthat works for you and add all
of the things you can possiblythink of to it.
Matt (27:08):
I have a bonus question, if we have time Totally, what
are your thoughts on likeperfectionism versus planning?
When do I know I'm done?
Planning?
Courtney (27:21):
That, I think, is a constant battle.
Yeah, I would say that done isbetter than perfect.
That's the saying that I alwaysreally appreciate, as it is,
especially if you are aperfectionist, and it's really
easy to get stuck into.
No, I got to do more planning.
(27:41):
I got to do more planning.
I give you examples of all thesubtasks that you could have.
That would be standard, but atthe end of the day, if all you
have is create sludge the swampmonster, as long as you budget
enough time for the beginning ofthe drafting to when you have
to have it signed off on, youcan just start with that.
(28:02):
Don't let making subtask aftersubtask stop you from actually
getting your project going.
Matt (28:11):
Oh, so like planning as procrastination too, yeah, yeah,
so if you're sitting there andyou have pages and pages of
things that you want to do andyou have executed on zero, what
would you advise?
Courtney (28:26):
Yeah, that is when you need to just pick one thing.
I like to honestly start with.
What is the thing that is goingto take the least amount of
effort.
Let me do it so I can check itoff.
And then pick another thingthat's going to be lower effort,
so that you can check it off.
And as you start gettingthrough those things, then
(28:51):
hopefully you get motivation foryourself on like, okay, I got
these things done.
I feel really good about doingthat.
It's time to like pick the nextthing, or you know what.
That's all I'm going to be ableto do today, but tomorrow I'm
going to do this one thing.
Matt (29:07):
Like a motivation snowball effect.
Exactly, yeah.
So if you've been listening toall of this and you have your
homework, thank you so much forhanging out with us.
Does that conclude our projectmanagement episodes?
Courtney (29:25):
I think for now it does yeah.
Matt (29:28):
So, again, if you enjoyed any of these, please reach out
to us.
Let us know how your homeworkwent.
We would love to hear about it,and we would love to hear about
anything else that you wouldlike to hear about.
Courtney (29:40):
Yeah, definitely be sure to head us up.
You can email roleplaygrow atgmailcom.
You can find roleplaygrow onPatreon, on Blue Sky, on threads
.
Haven't made a Twitter accountbecause I don't know if Twitter
is going to live, but you canfind me at catcherrpg on Twitter
.
Matt (29:59):
Yes, and as usual, I am Dungeon Glitch and you can find
me anywhere that you probablylook.
So, yeah, if you message ouremail account here, then we will
work on what you send us andit's a lot of fun for us.
So thank you so much forhanging out.
Courtney (30:16):
Yes, y'all are the best and we will see you next
time.
Matt (30:20):
Bye.
Courtney (30:51):
To contact us.
You rollplaygrow@gmail.
com email .
T.
here are a lot of social mediasites out there right now, so
look for roleplaygrow for theshow account and look for either
Ketra or Ketra RPG for myaccounts and Dungeon Glitch for
Matt's accounts.
Lastly, I want to give aspecial shout out to our editor,
(31:12):
Sam Atkinson, for help, asalways.
Appreciated.
Sam, Thank you all so much forlistening and I'll see you next
time on roleplaygrow.
Hello and welcome to Roll Play Grow, the podcast for
tabletop entrepreneurs, creatorsand fans.
In this show, we dig intoprocesses, challenges, tips and
really look at how to grow abusiness in the tabletop
role-play gaming space.
Sit back and join in as welearn from the creators behind
your favorite brands about whothey are and how they are
turning their passion for gaminginto a career.
(00:29):
Welcome to Roll Play Grow, thebi-monthly sanctuary where
fantasy meets reality.
I'm Courtney Stover.
Matt (00:36):
And I'm Matt Joro.
Courtney (00:38):
Today we are diving into one of our special episodes
of the Proficiency Check.
Here we equip TTRPG creatorswith the tools, business
insights and skills to level uptheir game.
So grab your notebooks,adventurers, because it is time
to roll, play, and grow.
Matt (00:55):
Today we want to dig into the project management tools
what they are and how to usethem as part two of the project
management episodes.
There are a bunch of resourcesout there that you can use to
help you stay organized and dothe project planning that we
talked about two weeks ago.
They do things like let youlist out action items and
(01:17):
individual tasks, assign them topeople, set deadlines and take
notes on individual tasks.
Courtney, where do we begintoday?
Courtney (01:29):
So I want to talk about some of the resources that
are available out there, and Iknow I mentioned one a lot last
time called Asana, but therereally are a bunch and I think
we'll talk about a few of themtoday.
But essentially, like Matt justsaid, they are places where you
can build out a project board,a project plan, as you are
(01:53):
figuring out all of the thingsthat we talked about last time.
Who's your project team?
You're going to add them tothis project board.
What is your communication plangoing to be Great, throw that
into your project managementsystem.
What are all the things thatyou're going to have to do to
make this project come to life?
You're going to start creatingindividual tasks on one of these
(02:15):
platforms with everything thatMatt just said.
So I prefer to use Asana on myTTRPG project.
There are a couple others outthere that I use for other
things.
Honestly, if I'm being, if Ihad all of the budget, I would
use something called Rike.
I use it in my nine to five job, but it frankly, isn't as good
(02:39):
like the free version, and paidversion is not something that I
feel like paying for at themoment.
So I use Asana and the thingsthat you can do on there are.
In the free version.
You can invite up to 15 peopleon your team where everybody
would be able to have access tosee the project boards.
You can create private boardsthat are private to just you.
(02:59):
Unfortunately, with the freeversion you can only make it
private to you.
The rest of it would be to yourteam.
The paid versions you can startinviting people to see like
specific boards, but we'remostly going to focus on free
things for you in this episode.
So, anyways, you can have up to15 people in your team.
(03:20):
They will see any board thatyou make.
So you can make a board that isgoing to be All right.
Here is the marketing plan forthe sticker store that you're
starting up and here is the artproject board.
So we're going to list outeverything that all of the
artists are working on.
We're going to make anotherboard for meeting notes just to
(03:41):
like have one spot whereeverybody can refer to any of
the project check-in stuff, likewhat happened.
Really, you can make as manyboards as you want, but it's
going to be a good repository tosee what all is happening, get
files uploaded to it and do allsorts of fun features, like.
You've got your own personalinbox, so anytime somebody tags
you and like a comment orsomething, then you know exactly
(04:04):
where to go.
You can go straight there fromyour inbox.
Matt (04:08):
Awesome.
I use Asana professionally butfor my own projects when I'm
working on my own in this space.
For my own projects, I'll useNotion, because there's a lot of
different things you canactually do with it.
And when you find your ownstyle, like I use the
collapsible menus, that sort ofstuff, and you can actually, if
you really want to get into it,create like a database and
(04:31):
that's it's more advanced.
But if you have a lot ofinformation say you're building
a world or something like that,and you want to be able to hey,
I want to check out this NPC.
Where is he from?
What do they do?
Who do they know?
You can create a database thatwill, just one click, show you
all of your information.
It's wonderful.
It takes a little time to getused to.
(04:52):
Youtube videos will show youall of it.
It's wonderful.
I'm not using that.
I'm literally using the back ofjunk mail and just writing it
and leaving it on my desk.
Courtney (05:03):
Okay, well, we don't want to do that.
Matt (05:05):
Right, yeah, but I, but I still write something down at
least.
Courtney (05:12):
That's interesting.
I've seen so manyadvertisements for Notion but I
haven't used it yet, mostlybecause I've been like oh, I've
got a project management thing Ilike using, like that's fine,
but that's really interestingabout being able to build a more
of like a database.
Matt (05:27):
Yeah, there's a ton of stuff you can do with it.
I haven't explored too deeplybeyond the things that I wanted
it for, but I know some peopleare doing some amazing things
with it and notions free.
You can go there right now.
Courtney (05:39):
Okay, okay, awesome.
Well, I'm definitely going tocheck that one out Some other
ones that are out there.
I know Trello is a very popularstarter one.
I'll be honest, I don't reallylike Trello all that much.
I feel like it doesn't haveenough, and if you want the look
of the Trello board with thecolumns where you can move the
(06:02):
tasks around as you want to, youcan have a board view in Asana.
So I just do that.
But it is a good starterresource that a lot of people
like to use.
It's free.
Matt (06:13):
Yeah, instead of using Trello, what I used to do is I
would just take a whole pad ofsticky notes and just use an
entire wall, and that was myTrello.
I would just move things overand then eventually, I would
have a pile of sticky notes onthe ground until I was done.
Courtney (06:29):
I love that Kanban lifestyle huh.
Matt (06:32):
Yes, yes.
Courtney (06:35):
Do you want to explain Kanban?
Matt (06:36):
No, no, I don't.
Courtney (06:42):
And up.
Yeah, kanban is aorganizational tool that you can
use to keep track of what ishappening.
You know what are to do itemsyou're going to have to get to
eventually.
What are you going to focus on,too, and what are you focusing
on now and what did you actuallyfinish?
You can do actual sticky notes,like Matt said, and it's kind
(07:07):
of fun to do it like that, butvery messy.
Or you can use Trello or theSoda Board or whatever.
Matt (07:14):
It's just more fun when I can hold it in my hand.
Courtney (07:16):
Tearing it off the wall is so satisfying Sure sure
I do still use like an actualpen and paper agenda for my
daily stuff because I just likethe activity of writing things
down.
Matt (07:28):
Yes.
Courtney (07:30):
So you use Notion?
What are some other tools thatyou use to keep organized, Matt?
Matt (07:35):
I'm pretty basic.
I will use an entire Discordserver and just make as many
channels and posts and edit themas we go, and it's easy for
people to just kind of like popin.
I use it for Dungeons andDragons a lot, so for my
(07:56):
professional games, people willwant to know the updates of what
happened in any games that theymissed or who are these NPCs.
I'll just make a channel.
All the information is there.
But I also know that if I needto adjust things, I can also
give people homework so thatthey know what they need to do.
(08:16):
I can communicate with them ontheir own schedule.
So that's the free, supersimple version that I do.
For people who don't want tosay you don't want to be part of
a team on a random site, buteveryone's on Discord, it works.
Courtney (08:37):
Yeah, I find that it's easiest to use Discord for just
chatting about what's going onwith the thing, but the reason
that you want to use somethinglike Notion as on a red fellow,
whatever it is that you wind uppicking is because it helps you
actually lay out your projectplan with dates of when is it
(09:01):
going to be worked on, when isthe due date, who is doing what.
So that's actually somethingthat I wanted to talk about.
Next was giving an example ofhow you would actually create a
task on whatever system youchoose.
So I know we were talking aboutthe stickers.
(09:22):
I do want to give the example,though, of if you are creating a
monster for your TTRPG.
Matt (09:29):
Perfect.
Yeah, let's do where we'remaking.
What do you want to do?
A monster manual this time?
Courtney (09:36):
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Well, break it down and do amonster manual.
Matt (09:41):
All right.
Courtney (09:43):
One of the things that you would have done is figure
out how many monsters are youmaking in your monster manual.
Are you going to have 50monsters?
Great, you are going to have toidentify what all of those
monsters are going to be.
Let's say that you have a swampmonster.
Matt, do you want to name aswamp?
Do you want to name?
Matt (10:00):
a swamp monster.
This monster is specificallynamed sludge.
Courtney (10:04):
Sludge.
Matt (10:04):
Okay.
Courtney (10:05):
So you are going to create what is called a parent
task.
That is going to be createsludge the swamp monster, and
then you're going to have adescription area, write out a
note on who sludge is.
You know like, what is hesupposed to be?
What kind of resources are yougoing to grab for inspiration
(10:28):
for writing out all of thethings?
It's going to be high levelnotes for this parent task.
Then, within that task, youshould have the ability to
create sub tasks and, like Imentioned a couple of weeks ago,
planning, plan everything.
You want to plan out everysingle step and it feels tedious
(10:51):
, but if you do this, you aregoing to realize how many steps
there are to get sludge to hisamazing glory and you're going
to make sure that you haveenough time to do it that
everybody is able to do the workthat they need to do.
So here are some examples ofsub tasks that you would do for
sludge Is draft description ofsludge the swamp monster.
(11:16):
This isn't like the finalversion.
It's just write up a draft ofhis description and then write
up a draft of the stat block andthen you're going to have a sub
task that's reviewed, thedescription and stat block.
That could be.
If you're the one that wrotethe description, you want to
send it off to somebody else tolook at for feedback.
(11:36):
If somebody else is the onethat wrote up this description,
you would be the one reviewingit.
But you're going to review andmake sure you budget out some
time to revise sludge'sdescription and stat block, and
then you need to sign off.
Eventually you're going to getto it where you're like sludge
is perfect.
This is exactly what I wantsludge to be.
(11:56):
Meanwhile, other sub tasks thatyou would have would be grab
concept art for sludge fromstock images.
Now do a Google search.
What do you find for swampmonsters.
Get some concept arts togetherthat you can then, for your next
sub task, send your off yourconcept art for sludge.
Then again, you want to have areview and revision cycle.
(12:18):
So have some tasks laid out forthose and then sign off on it's
swap monster art.
And then what are you doingwith it?
Is it just going to like sit ina draft or like in a folder,
somewhere that you knoweventually you'll have everybody
ready to go and then you startgoing into layout.
Great, make sure that you havea task for put it in that folder
, whatever it is, is going to bethe final, like it's published.
If you will, personally, I liketo lay out all of these steps
(12:42):
and then figure out when they'regoing to happen, which you know
depending on if you have adeadline you're working towards
already, you can work backwards.
If you don't have a deadline,you can work forwards.
So you know things like okay,I've got a deadline in three
months that has to be done.
So the signing off on the artand the descriptions has to be
(13:06):
done by the day before thatdeadline and it's going to take
three days for me to review it.
So I'm going to have a threeday window, which means that the
final revision needs to be donefour days before that deadline
and it's going to take threeweeks for that review and
revision time period.
So okay, and you just work yourway backwards.
Alternatively, if you don'thave a deadline that you're
(13:26):
working towards, then you startat the front and say, all right,
drafting time going to take twoweeks, I will give two weeks
and then, after those two weeks,I'm going to give myself three
days to review and then we'regoing to do another two weeks to
revise and just you workforwards until you kind of
figure out like, okay, how longis it going to take to do this
or each one of those monsters?
Matt (13:47):
Huh, so?
So essentially, I come up withsludge and I say I sit down, I
write sludge, what they looklike in their stats, and I say,
hey, courtney, I got a two daydeadline and you take a look at
this for me, you do it, you sendit back to me, I make any
changes that you recommend ontime, and then I go figure out
(14:08):
what the art is supposed to be.
We get the art made and we signoff on the whole thing and
we're on schedule and it'sreviewed and stamped, marked
done.
Courtney (14:18):
Exactly.
Matt (14:19):
Wonderful yeah.
Courtney (14:22):
So I realize that, like planning out all of those
different sub tasks can feelreally tedious at the beginning,
especially if you're not usedto doing it.
So some ways that help,honestly, are to make up a
little template.
So, okay, we're going to have50 monsters, I've written out
everything for sludge, all ofthese sub tasks, you know, I've
(14:43):
assigned who the artist is goingto be and I'm just going to
copy this task with all of itsub tasks and I'm going to paste
and then, instead of sludge theswap monster it's a different
one, but you know, essentiallythen you can just like have that
(15:05):
as a template and copy paste itlike 50 times if that's what it
takes, and then just makeadjustments on like who's doing
each individual art piece, likewho's drafting each monster.
The one thing that you knowyou'll want to make sure you're
doing is like spacing it out towhere you know.
If I need two weeks to write upsludges, description and stop
(15:27):
lock, but I'm also working on abunch of other monsters too.
I can probably work on multipleat the same time.
You know, just that is wherethat communication is really
vital with coming with yourtalking to your team to find out
, like you know, okay, in like atwo week time period, how many
of these could you be working onto be able to turn into all at
(15:47):
the same time for review?
You know, and then you couldhave some overlapping.
You want to stagger some sothat you know, while I'm
reviewing, sludge you matter,going ahead and working on like
a few more.
And you know, you're just kindof pieced it all together.
Matt (16:03):
Absolutely.
We'll get through this monstermanual.
I'm excited about it.
Courtney (16:09):
I am too.
Matt (16:12):
And you know it's funny.
I like to remind people, too,that when they get to the things
that feel tedious or difficult,that if you're really trying to
succeed, any part that you getstuck on is where a lot of
people get stuck.
So all you have to do tosucceed is get through that one
part where most people quit andyou're automatically ahead of
everybody else.
So if this feels tedious, ifyou're running through this and
(16:36):
you just want to tear your faceoff, just keep going and you
will make it.
Courtney (16:42):
Yeah, it's very, very true.
And the thing to keep in mindis, like you know, if you can
just get through it, know thatonce you get to the execution
phase that we talked about twoweeks ago, like you are going to
feel so much better because youknow exactly like, alright, for
the month of December andJanuary, we are working on
(17:03):
drafting up all of thesemonsters for the monster manual.
You know, simultaneously you'vegot the whole game getting
designed too, you know, andyou're just piecing everything
together, and just having all ofthe steps laid out means that
it's super easy to just go checkin.
You know, third week ofDecember to be like, okay, we've
got the holidays coming up nextweek.
I know a lot of people aretaking time off, so that's cool.
(17:24):
I mean, you know what?
I should probably just have aconversation to be like hey,
have a good time over theholidays.
We'll meet back up after NewYear's.
And just as a reminder, like,your due date for these
descriptions or these art piecesis the second week of January,
so just want to make sure that,like, that's top of your mind as
you head into the holidays.
Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, have fun.
Matt (17:48):
Mindful planning, good communication, making sure you
understand what is important tothe people that you work with
100%.
Courtney (17:57):
Hey, entrepreneurs, I love introducing you to new
creators every episode, but Icould really use your support.
I would love to invite you tojoin our Patreon page, where
you'll gain access to behind thescenes content.
Add your questions to upcominginterviews and you could even
receive a shout out on our sitein an upcoming episode.
To learn more, go tolightheartadventurescom.
And now back to the show.
(18:23):
Okay, so we figured out.
You know getting the projectplan together on whatever tool
it is that you're using.
Let's talk about actuallymaking this stuff happen.
So the more that you plan, themore that you're going to be
able to work on.
You know knowing how oftenyou're supposed to check in with
people, making sure that you'reaccounting for any of those
(18:46):
risks that we talked about twoweeks ago.
Where something goes on and anartist drops out, you need to
replace them or shuffle theirassignments to somebody else.
Knowing how to respond to thatissue will help your stress keep
your stress levels down.
One thing that I really wantedto make sure we talk about is a
question that we actually gotfrom a couple people on social
(19:08):
media, which was how do you herdthe cats?
How do you keep peoplemotivated and focused on the
project?
Matt (19:19):
Um, so what I like to do is I mean, if I can't bring
everyone in at the same time andget that infectious sort of hey
, we're doing this, it'sfantastic, everything's going to
be the best, then I like toremind people.
Well, I first like to figureout why people want to be part
of a project.
If it can connect to somethingthat they care about, whether it
(19:42):
is monetary or virtue or someother thing that is important to
them, then I know what toremind them of.
Later, when things getdifficult, Simon Sinek will tell
you.
Begin with why, and that worksevery time.
When you get stuck, when yourteammates get stuck, check in
with them.
This is what we're doing.
(20:04):
Does this still sound good toyou?
And have those conversations.
Make sure everyone'scomfortable, be on the same page
, in the same headspace, and bewilling to adapt and adjust,
because sometimes people do losethat motivation, and you got to
be okay with that.
Because sometimes you knowdragging things out will only
(20:26):
slow everything down and hurt iteven more, and just letting
people go is also part ofproject management.
So when you're working on thisand you're working with people,
again, it's always going to becommunication.
Courtney (20:41):
Yeah, 100%.
You know, like there's somethings that you can do
preemptively, especially ifyou're at the beginning of the
project, which, beyondestablishing a communication
plan, it's also just building arelationship with your team
members, like you want them totrust you, you want them to feel
comfortable coming to you ifthey are having an issue.
(21:03):
Beyond the regular check-inmeetings that we've briefly
discussed, like with everybody,have regular check-ins with each
of your team members and, youknow, don't make it just about
the project, make it also abouthow you're doing in hell's life.
Like you know, I saw thisreally cute picture of your dog.
Like, tell me about your dog,because it just establishes
(21:26):
trust and gets them to feel likethey know that if something's
going wrong, you're not going toyell at them about it.
Especially in this industry, alot of us are indie.
You know we're just trying tomake our way and stuff happens,
stuff comes up, and so if theyknow that they can come to you
with a problem and that you willnot only listen but also work
(21:47):
to help them solve it, you'regoing to be able to keep the
project moving, keep them happyand motivated to keep working on
things.
You know.
So it's really a lot of it ispreventative things that you can
do.
But you know, sometimes moraleis low and things happen and you
know, like you said, matt, likeyou need to be able to
(22:08):
recognize if someone is just notgoing to be able to continue on
with the project and doesn'treally have an interest in doing
so.
Like, make sure that you know,stay respectful, but it's okay
to let them go when you have to.
Matt (22:22):
Yep happens all the time, a lot of people will say higher,
slow fire, fast.
But I always have that spot inmy heart where it's like I want
to give this person a chance andit's like sometimes it works
out great.
Sometimes it is a mistake, butbeing honest with them and
yourself will be what gets youthrough it.
And with this plan, then youalready know the risks and
(22:45):
impact to your budget and yourschedule and you have to measure
things accordingly when youneed to make these leadership
decisions.
So you are well equipped here,instead of just going by the gut
and feeling like I don't wantto call this person anymore.
Yeah absolutely.
Courtney (23:04):
You know like it sucks when it happens.
But if you know going in thatit could happen, then at least
you know how to deal with itwhen it does.
But just because somebody ishaving a hard time doesn't
necessarily mean that they needto leave at the project.
So you're going to want to justdo that personal, like
one-on-one check-in.
(23:25):
Is there something going on intheir personal life and they
just need to deal with it for acouple of weeks?
But then they can come back.
Okay, how much can you delaythe stuff they were working on?
Is there someone else you canshift it off to?
Maybe they're just feelingdisconnected and it's like, okay
, cool, I will make sure that wedo some more stuff with the
team so that we can do some showand tells and see like what it
(23:47):
is that they're working on.
It's one thing that I'velearned and just seen over the
last decade is that when projectteam members can see more of
the project than just whatthey're working on and when they
understand the impact thattheir things have on the other
team members and honestly mostpeople feel motivated then to
(24:09):
not let the other folks down andso like having a little bit of
a show and tell them say like,hey, this is what I've been
working on and it's still indevelopment.
Would love your feedback.
That can help inspire them ifthey're feeling stuck and it
helps them realize like, ooh,yeah, you are waiting on my art
to put into your layout.
I really need to finish thispiece.
Let me work on that for you.
Matt (24:31):
Yeah, that sort of thing I actually found worked out
really well for me on my lastbig project, because it was a
lot less of hey, get your pieceover, it's a handoff, do your
thing, it sort of.
We developed this sort ofspeech where it was almost like
hey, who have you helped today?
Who helped you today?
And it's examining the impactand the meaning of your progress
(24:56):
and because of that, everyonesort of just felt more attached,
more integrated and justimmersed in the project and in
the end they felt a lot morepride as a team because it was
like, hey, I got to make thiseasier for someone because I did
it, I did it on time, it wasperfect, we're an excellent team
.
And like, hey, high five, wewere on the other side of the
(25:18):
world, but this is fantastic andyou're great to work with, as
opposed to, again, justchecklists.
Courtney (25:25):
There is one thing that you will make as a project
manager.
It will be every checklist youcan possibly think of.
Matt (25:34):
Oh yeah.
Courtney (25:36):
Okay, I think that that is a good point to wrap up
today.
So, as usual, you have somehomework.
You are gonna take what you didafter the last episode, which
was thinking about what is yourgoal, what is your why?
What is like project are youmaking?
What do you need?
(25:56):
What are you missing?
And then you are going to lookat some of the resources that we
talked about, which I will havelinked in the show notes, about
Notion Asana.
I'll even give you a Trello soyou can look at it if you want
to, but you're gonna pick one ora couple and you're gonna just
experiment with them, make afree account, play around, find
out which one you like until youget a little bit of a system
(26:21):
going.
And then you are gonna take thegoals that you laid out and
just make a board that isproject goals and write it all
out so it's documented, and thenstart making some other boards.
Like, okay, I am starting mysticker store, so I'm gonna have
a whole project board that isaround getting the LLC started
(26:44):
and setting up the actual webstore.
And then I'm gonna have aproject board that is about
working with artists to designall of my 50 stickers.
You're gonna just start playingaround and then, if you've got
a project team, you can startadding them to it, but your main
homework is to find the systemthat works for you and add all
of the things you can possiblythink of to it.
Matt (27:08):
I have a bonus question, if we have time Totally, what
are your thoughts on likeperfectionism versus planning?
When do I know I'm done?
Planning?
Courtney (27:21):
That, I think, is a constant battle.
Yeah, I would say that done isbetter than perfect.
That's the saying that I alwaysreally appreciate, as it is,
especially if you are aperfectionist, and it's really
easy to get stuck into.
No, I got to do more planning.
(27:41):
I got to do more planning.
I give you examples of all thesubtasks that you could have.
That would be standard, but atthe end of the day, if all you
have is create sludge the swampmonster, as long as you budget
enough time for the beginning ofthe drafting to when you have
to have it signed off on, youcan just start with that.
(28:02):
Don't let making subtask aftersubtask stop you from actually
getting your project going.
Matt (28:11):
Oh, so like planning as procrastination too, yeah, yeah,
so if you're sitting there andyou have pages and pages of
things that you want to do andyou have executed on zero, what
would you advise?
Courtney (28:26):
Yeah, that is when you need to just pick one thing.
I like to honestly start with.
What is the thing that is goingto take the least amount of
effort.
Let me do it so I can check itoff.
And then pick another thingthat's going to be lower effort,
so that you can check it off.
And as you start gettingthrough those things, then
(28:51):
hopefully you get motivation foryourself on like, okay, I got
these things done.
I feel really good about doingthat.
It's time to like pick the nextthing, or you know what.
That's all I'm going to be ableto do today, but tomorrow I'm
going to do this one thing.
Matt (29:07):
Like a motivation snowball effect.
Exactly, yeah.
So if you've been listening toall of this and you have your
homework, thank you so much forhanging out with us.
Does that conclude our projectmanagement episodes?
Courtney (29:25):
I think for now it does yeah.
Matt (29:28):
So, again, if you enjoyed any of these, please reach out
to us.
Let us know how your homeworkwent.
We would love to hear about it,and we would love to hear about
anything else that you wouldlike to hear about.
Courtney (29:40):
Yeah, definitely be sure to head us up.
You can email roleplaygrow atgmailcom.
You can find roleplaygrow onPatreon, on Blue Sky, on threads
.
Haven't made a Twitter accountbecause I don't know if Twitter
is going to live, but you canfind me at catcherrpg on Twitter
.
Matt (29:59):
Yes, and as usual, I am Dungeon Glitch and you can find
me anywhere that you probablylook.
So, yeah, if you message ouremail account here, then we will
work on what you send us andit's a lot of fun for us.
So thank you so much forhanging out.
Courtney (30:16):
Yes, y'all are the best and we will see you next
time.
Matt (30:20):
Bye.
Courtney (30:51):
To contact us.
You rollplaygrow@gmail.
com email .
T.
here are a lot of social mediasites out there right now, so
look for roleplaygrow for theshow account and look for either
Ketra or Ketra RPG for myaccounts and Dungeon Glitch for
Matt's accounts.
Lastly, I want to give aspecial shout out to our editor,
(31:12):
Sam Atkinson, for help, asalways.
Appreciated.
Sam, Thank you all so much forlistening and I'll see you next
time on roleplaygrow.
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