September 14, 2025 • 23 mins
The golden age of darker, more mature RPGs in the mid-1990s saw numerous games trying to capture the same audience that Vampire: The Masquerade had tapped into. Among these ambitious titles, Nephilim stands out as a fascinating "what could have been" story – a game bursting with revolutionary ideas that never quite delivered on its enormous potential.
The question is, did it deliver on that potential? Tune in to find out.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Iain (00:08):
Welcome to Roll2Save the RPG history podcast Nephilim.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Roll to Save the RPG
(00:30):
history podcast.
Today we're diving into one ofthose games that always makes me
feel a bit wistful Nephilim,published by KSEM in 1994.
Now, before you start wonderingif we're just going to be
trying to cram in every obscureRPG from the 90s in our episodes
, let me explain why thisparticular game deserves our
(00:52):
attention.
Nephilim is what I'd call agame that could have been great,
one of those tantalisingdesigns that had genuinely
brilliant ideas but never quitemanaged to deliver on its
enormous potential.
Back in September 1994, I pickedup issue one of Valkyrie
magazine.
Now, for those of you too youngto remember, valkyrie was one
(01:14):
of those ambitious gamingmagazines that cropped up in the
early 90s full of enthusiasmand dreams of becoming the new
white dwarf.
Spoiler alert, they didn't, buttucked away in that first issue
was a review of somethingcalled Nephilim, described
rather grandly as occultrole-playing.
This immediately caught myattention.
(01:35):
The mid-90s were absolutelygolden age of darker, more
mature RPGs.
Vampire the Masquerade hadshown there was an appetite for
games that dealt with weightierthemes than kick down the door
and kill the orcs.
Now, call of Cthulhu had beendoing this for years, of course,
but White Wolf had really takenthis to a much larger market.
(01:56):
Everyone was getting into theact.
You had Cult, with itsgenuinely disturbing take on
reality in Nominee, with itstheological warfare, and dozens
of others trying to capture thesame lightning in the bottle.
And here was Nephilim,promising something different
again, a game where you'd playimmortal elemental beings
(02:16):
reincarnating throughout history, wielding genuine occult power,
whilst being hunted by secretsocieties.
On paper, it sounded absolutelybrilliant.
In practice, well, let's take alook, shall we?
(02:39):
Nephilim had its roots in theFrench RPG scene, originally
published by Multisim in 1992.
I have to admit, the foreignlanguage gaming scene was almost
completely unknown to Englishspeakers back then, unlike today
, where we're much moreconnected to international
gaming through the internet andits digital distribution.
In the early 90s, gamespublished in other languages
(03:03):
might as well have been fromanother planet.
The language barrier meant thatmost of us had no idea just
what innovative designs werebeing developed just across the
channel.
Kseam, however, saw somethingspecial in Nephilim and decided
to bring it to the Englishspeaking world in 1994.
They didn't just do a straighttranslation either, kenneth Hite
(03:23):
, who would go on to become oneof the most respected gay names
in RPG writing was brought in todo additional research and
writing for the English edition.
At $21.95 for 230 pages.
It wasn't cheap, especially by1994 standards, but KCM clearly
had high hopes for it.
The timing seemed perfect.
(03:45):
This was exactly the sort ofthing that should have found an
audience in the mid-90s, withall these players who'd cut
their teeth on D&D but werelooking for something more
sophisticated.
Vampire had shown there was amarket for playing non-human
protagonists with complexmotivations.
Call of Cthulhu haddemonstrated that horror could
work brilliantly in an RPGcontent.
(04:06):
For years, nephilim seemedpositioned to combine the best
of both worlds the complexity ofplaying inhuman beings with the
investigation and hiddenmysteries of good horror gaming.
It was a great concept.
You play Nephilim, immortalelemental spirits who've lost
their physical forms and mustpossess human bodies to interact
(04:27):
with the world.
But this isn't just bodysnatching for the sake of it.
Each Nephilim is composed offive elemental forces called Ka
Fire, air, water, earth and moon.
Your dominant energy determinesyour personality and
capabilities.
Fire Nephilim are aggressiveand passionate.
Air Nephilim are intellectual.
(04:48):
Water Nephilim represent changeand movement.
Earth Nephilim are healers andcaretakers.
And Moon Nephilim are surprise,surprise, secretive and
manipulative, but here's whereit gets really interesting.
Your character has livedmultiple past lives throughout
history.
The games provided dozens ofhistorical periods to choose
from, everything frompre-dynastic Egypt around 5000
(05:12):
BC right up to Berlin in the1930s.
Each past life gave yourcharacter skills and knowledge,
but at a cost the more livesyou'd live, the more your raw
elemental power was diminished.
It was a genuine trade-offbetween experience and
supernatural might.
Your ultimate goal is achievingAgartha, a state of perfect
(05:33):
enlightenment where you nolonger need a physical body and
can manipulate the elementalforces directly.
But standing in your way aresecret societies, particularly
the Knights Templar.
Of course, it was the 90s.
Every conspiracy game featuredthe Knights Templar, and these
guys viewed the Nephilim as athreat to be eliminated or
(05:53):
enslaved.
This was genuinely inspiredstuff.
The past life system alone wasrevolutionary for its time.
Most RPGs gave you a paragraphor two of background and called
it character creation.
Nephilim was asking you to builda character whose personal
history spanned millennia.
Did you witness the fall ofTroy?
Were you there when Rome burned?
(06:14):
Did you whisper in Napoleon'sear?
These meant just colour.
Then you had mechanicalimplications and gave your
character genuine depth.
The elemental system wasequally clever.
Instead of the usual fantasyraces or character classes, you
had these five archetypal forcesthat shaped both your
personality and your magicalcapabilities.
It felt genuinely differentfrom anything else on the market
(06:37):
, and the setting itself wasfascinating.
This wasn't just the modernworld, but, with secret magic,
this was a conspiracy theorist'sdream, where the Illuminati and
the Templars and all the othersecret societies were real and
they were all scheming againsteach other whilst Nephilim tried
to navigate this hidden world.
It had that same appeal as theX-Files.
The idea was that there wasthis whole secret history
(07:00):
running parallel to the one wethought we knew.
So why didn't this brilliantconcept translate into gaming
success?
Well, as anyone who's actuallytried to run Nephilim will tell
you, the execution was well.
Let's be charitable and call itchallenging.
The first problem was the sheercomplexity of character
(07:21):
creation.
This wasn't something you couldjust knock out in 20 minutes
before the game started.
Creating a Nephilim characterwas a project.
You had to choose your dominantcat element, select your
metamorphosis, that's, asymbolic form your Nephilim
takes as it grows in power.
Pick your Arcanum one of 22secret mystical organisations,
(07:41):
and then work through multiplepast lives.
Each past life required rollingon tables, making choices about
your social status and figuringout what your character was
actually doing during thatperiod.
Now I'll admit that this wasactually a lot of fun.
There's something genuinelyengaging about building a
character with that much history.
But it took ages and itfront-loaded all the interesting
(08:04):
decision-making into charactercreation rather than actual play
.
We'd spend entire sessions justmaking characters, and whilst
that was enjoyable in its ownright, it did rather highlight
that the most engaging part ofthe game might not actually be
the game itself.
Then there was the magic system.
Oh boy, the magic system.
(08:24):
Nephilim had what was probablythe most complex spellcasting
roles I've ever encountered inan RPG.
Magic wasn't just about rollingdice and spending points.
Every spell was modified byastrological factors the
positions of the planets, themonth, the day of the week all
of it mattered.
Working out the appropriatemodifier for a spell required
(08:48):
consulting charts and doingcalculations that could take a
long time.
Ksam clearly recognised thatthis was a problem because
they'd released the GamesMaster's Veil Supplement that's
a GM screen to you and I.
That included something calledthe Celestial Alignment Wheel.
This was an actual physicalwheel that you could spin to
(09:08):
determine magical modifiersbased on celestial conditions.
The fact that they felt theneed to create a physical device
to handle the maths tells youeverything you need to know
about how complex this systemwas.
Now I can see what they weretrying to achieve.
Real world occultism does placeenormous emphasis on timing,
astrological correspondences andgetting the conditions just
(09:31):
right for magical workings.
This system was trying tocapture that authentic occult
feel, but in practice it meantthat every time someone wanted
to cast a spell, the game groundto a halt whilst we worked out
whether the stars were right ornot.
The core system was KSM's basicrole-playing, the same engine
that powered Call of Cthulhu andRuneQuest.
(09:52):
That part worked fine.
It was a solid, proven systemthat used a percentage system
for checking skills.
But all the additionalcomplexity layered on top made
what should have beenstraightforward actions into
exercises in bookkeeping.
To KSM's credit, they clearlyrecognised some of these
(10:13):
problems and tried to addressthem with a supplement line.
The most important of these wasthe Games Master's Companion
released in 1996.
One of the biggest issues withthe core rulebook was that it
gave you all this wonderfulbackground and these complex
character creation roles, but itwas surprisingly light on
actually how to run a Nephilimcampaign.
(10:35):
Andy Butcher, writing in ArcaneMagazine noted that Nephilim
Games Masters have to work veryhard to prepare the game for
play, since the originalrulebook did not contain a lot
of information about runningadventures.
The Games Masters' companiontried to fill that gap,
providing advice on campaignstructure, sample adventures and
(10:56):
guidelines for the kind ofstories that worked best in the
setting.
Kenneth Haidt contributed twomajor supplements Secret
Societies in 1995 and MajorArcana in 1997.
Both were excellent books thatfleshed out the setting
considerably.
Secret Societies did exactlywhat it said on the tin,
(11:18):
providing detailed informationabout the various human
organisations that the Nephilimhad to deal with.
Major Arcana expanded on the 22mystical tribes that the
Nephilim could belong to.
There was also Liber Kaa in1997, which provided alternative
magic rules that weresupposedly more in keeping with
(11:39):
real world ceremonial magicaltraditions.
They never actually used theserules, but they were described
as creating subtler effects noHollywood flashbang magic which
suggests they were trying tomove away from the overly
complex astrological system.
The thing is, this system wasalready very ritualistic, a far
cry from D&D's spell slots andflashier effects.
(12:01):
The problem was that thesesupplements, good as they were,
felt like patches for afundamentally flawed system.
The core game neededsubstantial revision, not just
additional content, and by thetime these books were coming out
, nephilim was alreadystruggling commercially.
I actually did manage to runNephilim once, back in the late
(12:22):
90s.
I'd been wanting to try it foryears, ever since reading that
original review in Valkyrie, andI finally convinced my gaming
group to give it a go.
Character creation took twosessions.
That's right, two sessions.
Now, as I mentioned earlier,this wasn't entirely unenjoyable
.
There's something genuinelyfascinating about building a
character with thousands ofyears of history.
(12:43):
We had lengthy discussionsabout what our characters might
have been doing during varioushistorical periods, how they
might have encountered doingduring various historical
periods, how they might haveencountered each other in past
lives and what their ultimategoals were.
It felt like collaborativeworld building of the best sort.
But when we actually startedplaying well, that's where
things started to fall apart.
The game had all the complexityof character creation, but none
(13:07):
of the narrative momentum webuilt up during that process.
We spent ages looking up rules,consulting the astrological
charts every time someone wantedto cast a spell and generally
getting bogged down in themechanics.
More fundamentally, though,basic premise started to feel a
bit hollow once we actuallystarted playing it, despite all
(13:28):
the wonderful background aboutsecret societies and hidden
history.
What we ended up with felt likejust another game about magical
protagonists on the run from asecret group of bad guy magical
folks.
Now, this might have been downto my execution as a GM.
I'll freely admit that Iprobably didn't give Nephilim
the attention it deserved.
(13:48):
But by that point we'd alreadydiscovered Mage of the Ascension
and, frankly, the technocracymade for much more interesting
villains than the Templars.
White Wolf's take on secretmagical societies felt more
immediate and relevant to the90s, whilst Nephilim's
conspiracy theories felt thatthey belonged to an earlier era.
The past life system, which hadbeen so engaging during
(14:10):
character creation, turned outto be surprisingly irrelevant
during actual play.
Yes, your character might havebeen a peasant in pre-dynastic
Egypt, but what did thatactually mean when you were
investigating supernaturalhijinks in modern New York?
Looking back now, I thinkNephilim fell victim to several
classic design problems.
(14:32):
The first was what I'd callComplex State for Complexity's
sake.
The magic system wasn't complexbecause complexity served the
game's themes or made for moreinteresting play.
It was complex because some maythought that real occultism was
complex.
Therefore the game should becomplex too.
That's getting the relationshipbetween simulation and fun
(14:54):
exactly backward.
The second problem was that thegame never really figured out
what it wanted to be tonally.
Was it a serious exploration ofoccult themes and historical
mysteries?
Was it a pulp adventure gameabout supernatural beings
fighting secret societies?
Was it a philosophical gameabout the nature of
(15:15):
enlightenment and transcendence?
Different parts of the gameseemed to be pushing in
different directions and theresult was something that never
quite achieved focus.
The third issue was markettiming.
Nephilim came out just as theRPG market was becoming
increasingly crowded with gamesthat did similar things but
(15:35):
better.
Vampire had already sewn up theplaying inhuman immortals
market, modern occultism withmuch more streamlined systems.
Nephilim was trying to be allthese things at once and ended
up being none of themparticularly well, but perhaps
most importantly, the gamesuffered from what modern
(15:58):
designers call the awesomecharacter sheet syndrome.
All the cool stuff about yourcharacter, the millennia of
history, the connection toelemental forces and ancient
wisdom was on your charactersheet rather than emerging
through play.
The character creation processwas engaging because it was
where all the interestingdecision making actually
(16:19):
happened.
Actually, playing the characterwas less interesting because
you'd already made all theimportant choices.
Despite his commercial failureand make no mistake, nephilim
was a commercial failure forKSEM, the game has maintained a
devoted following.
Part of this is because thecore concept really is quite
brilliant.
There is something genuinelycompelling about playing
(16:41):
immortal beings with a vasthistorical perspective, and the
elemental magic system doescreate a different feel from the
usual D&D-der derived fantasy.
The past life system inparticular has influenced later
game design.
You can see echoes of it ingames like Wraith the Oblivion,
which dealt with characters fromdifferent historical periods,
(17:01):
and more recently in games likeLegacy, life Amongst the Ruins,
which explicitly deals withcharacters whose stories span
generations.
The French editions of the gamecontinued to evolve and improve
, with several more editionsbeing released over the years.
From what I've heard frompeople who played the later
French versions, many of thesystem issues were eventually
(17:22):
resolved, but by then theEnglish-speaking market had
moved on.
I've always wanted to revisitNephilim.
The core ideas are strongenough that I keep thinking
there must be a way to make itwork.
Maybe with a simpler magicsystem, Maybe with more focus on
what the characters areactually trying to achieve
rather than what they've done inthe past.
Maybe with a clearer sense ofwhat tone the game is trying to
(17:44):
achieve, because, despite all ofmy criticisms, there really is
something rather special aboutNephilim.
It was one of the first RPGs toseriously engage with real
world occultism rather than justfantasy magic with different
names.
The research that went into thebackground was genuinely
impressive.
You could tell that thedesigners had done their
(18:05):
homework about hermetictraditions, historical secret
societies and the actualpractice of western esotericism.
The game also had a uniqueapproach to the relationship
between power and knowledge.
In most RPGs, gainingexperience makes you
straightforwardly better ateverything.
In Nephilim, each past lifegave you new skills but
(18:28):
diminished your raw elementalpower.
It was a fascinating trade-offthat reflected real occult ideas
about the relationship betweenwisdom and transcendence, and
the sheer ambition of the thingwas admirable.
This wasn't a game content tostick to familiar fantasy tropes
or obvious horror cliches.
It was trying to createsomething genuinely different or
(18:50):
obvious horror cliches.
It was trying to createsomething genuinely different, a
game that would make playersthink about history,
consciousness and the nature ofreality itself.
The fact that it didn't quitesucceed doesn't diminish the
fact that it tried.
In an industry that's oftencriticised for playing things
safe, nephilim was willing totake genuine risks.
It assumed its players wereintelligent enough to engage
(19:12):
with complex ideas andsophisticated enough to
appreciate historical and occultreferences.
Looking back at Nephilim now, itfeels like a game that was
ahead of its time in some waysand behind it in others.
The complexity that made itdifficult to play in the 90s
would be absolutely unthinkablein today's market where
streamlined systems and playeraccessibility are paramount.
(19:34):
But the thematic sophisticationand the willingness to engage
seriously with occult ideasfeels very modern.
There's definitely been aresurgence of interest in the
occult themes in RPG design.
While Unknown Armies and DeltaGreen were pioneering conspiracy
games from the 90s, morerecently titles like Monster of
the Week, liminal Urban Shadowsand Night's Black Agents all
(19:55):
deal with conspiracy and hiddenrealities in ways that Nephilim
was exploring back in 1994.
The difference is that thesemodern games have learned to
present complex ideas throughsimpler mechanics.
So that's Nephilim a game thatcould have been great and in
some ways was great.
Despite its flaws.
It was a genuinely innovativedesign that tried to do
(20:17):
something different with magicat a time when the RPG market
saw magic as flashy D&D spells.
The fact that it didn't quitework shouldn't overshadow the
fact that it tried to work inways that were genuinely
ambitious and creative.
Every time I see Nephilimmentioned online or spot a copy
in a second-hand game shop, Ifeel a little pang of
(20:38):
wistfulness.
This is a game that deservedbetter than it got Better
execution, better timing, maybejust better luck.
But in another sense it gotexactly what it deserved A
devoted following of players whorecognised its potential and
were willing to overlook itsflaws.
In an industry that's oftenaccused of recycling the same
ideas over and over again,nephilim stands as a reminder
(20:59):
that there are still someunexplored possibilities, still
innovative approaches waiting tobe discovered.
It might not have been the gameit could have been, but it was
definitely the game thatsomebody needed to try to make.
And who knows, maybe somedaythe French that I'm learning in
Duolingo will become good enoughthat I can pick up a copy of
the French second edition andactually understand what it's
(21:21):
all about.
All I need to do is find thatDuolingo module about obscure
Western, esoteric, occult terms.
I wonder if they did that.
(21:49):
And that was our Nephilimepisode.
I hope you enjoyed that littlemicro-history of one of those
games.
That could have been great.
We are a semi-regular podcast onthe history of RPGs.
We have over 70 episodes now,so if you're a new listener,
take a look at our backcatalogue and you'll find all
(22:10):
sorts of history episodes likethis, roundtables, interviews,
product reviews and actual plays.
And if you enjoyed it, please,please, leave us those lovely
five stars on your podcastdirectory of choice.
It really helps with ourvisibility and it gives us a
warm, fluffy feeling inside thatmakes us want to make more
(22:30):
episodes.
If you want to get in touchwith us, maybe to tell us about
your experience with Nephilim,you can do so via email on
rolltosavepod at gmailcom, oryou can find us on Instagram and
Facebook by searching for Rollto Save.
Thanks again for listening anduntil next time, may your
(22:51):
elemental forces always remainin balance and stay away from
those pesky knights templar.
Welcome to Roll2Save the RPG history podcast Nephilim.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Roll to Save the RPG
(00:30):
history podcast.
Today we're diving into one ofthose games that always makes me
feel a bit wistful Nephilim,published by KSEM in 1994.
Now, before you start wonderingif we're just going to be
trying to cram in every obscureRPG from the 90s in our episodes
, let me explain why thisparticular game deserves our
(00:52):
attention.
Nephilim is what I'd call agame that could have been great,
one of those tantalisingdesigns that had genuinely
brilliant ideas but never quitemanaged to deliver on its
enormous potential.
Back in September 1994, I pickedup issue one of Valkyrie
magazine.
Now, for those of you too youngto remember, valkyrie was one
(01:14):
of those ambitious gamingmagazines that cropped up in the
early 90s full of enthusiasmand dreams of becoming the new
white dwarf.
Spoiler alert, they didn't, buttucked away in that first issue
was a review of somethingcalled Nephilim, described
rather grandly as occultrole-playing.
This immediately caught myattention.
(01:35):
The mid-90s were absolutelygolden age of darker, more
mature RPGs.
Vampire the Masquerade hadshown there was an appetite for
games that dealt with weightierthemes than kick down the door
and kill the orcs.
Now, call of Cthulhu had beendoing this for years, of course,
but White Wolf had really takenthis to a much larger market.
(01:56):
Everyone was getting into theact.
You had Cult, with itsgenuinely disturbing take on
reality in Nominee, with itstheological warfare, and dozens
of others trying to capture thesame lightning in the bottle.
And here was Nephilim,promising something different
again, a game where you'd playimmortal elemental beings
(02:16):
reincarnating throughout history, wielding genuine occult power,
whilst being hunted by secretsocieties.
On paper, it sounded absolutelybrilliant.
In practice, well, let's take alook, shall we?
(02:39):
Nephilim had its roots in theFrench RPG scene, originally
published by Multisim in 1992.
I have to admit, the foreignlanguage gaming scene was almost
completely unknown to Englishspeakers back then, unlike today
, where we're much moreconnected to international
gaming through the internet andits digital distribution.
In the early 90s, gamespublished in other languages
(03:03):
might as well have been fromanother planet.
The language barrier meant thatmost of us had no idea just
what innovative designs werebeing developed just across the
channel.
Kseam, however, saw somethingspecial in Nephilim and decided
to bring it to the Englishspeaking world in 1994.
They didn't just do a straighttranslation either, kenneth Hite
(03:23):
, who would go on to become oneof the most respected gay names
in RPG writing was brought in todo additional research and
writing for the English edition.
At $21.95 for 230 pages.
It wasn't cheap, especially by1994 standards, but KCM clearly
had high hopes for it.
The timing seemed perfect.
(03:45):
This was exactly the sort ofthing that should have found an
audience in the mid-90s, withall these players who'd cut
their teeth on D&D but werelooking for something more
sophisticated.
Vampire had shown there was amarket for playing non-human
protagonists with complexmotivations.
Call of Cthulhu haddemonstrated that horror could
work brilliantly in an RPGcontent.
(04:06):
For years, nephilim seemedpositioned to combine the best
of both worlds the complexity ofplaying inhuman beings with the
investigation and hiddenmysteries of good horror gaming.
It was a great concept.
You play Nephilim, immortalelemental spirits who've lost
their physical forms and mustpossess human bodies to interact
(04:27):
with the world.
But this isn't just bodysnatching for the sake of it.
Each Nephilim is composed offive elemental forces called Ka
Fire, air, water, earth and moon.
Your dominant energy determinesyour personality and
capabilities.
Fire Nephilim are aggressiveand passionate.
Air Nephilim are intellectual.
(04:48):
Water Nephilim represent changeand movement.
Earth Nephilim are healers andcaretakers.
And Moon Nephilim are surprise,surprise, secretive and
manipulative, but here's whereit gets really interesting.
Your character has livedmultiple past lives throughout
history.
The games provided dozens ofhistorical periods to choose
from, everything frompre-dynastic Egypt around 5000
(05:12):
BC right up to Berlin in the1930s.
Each past life gave yourcharacter skills and knowledge,
but at a cost the more livesyou'd live, the more your raw
elemental power was diminished.
It was a genuine trade-offbetween experience and
supernatural might.
Your ultimate goal is achievingAgartha, a state of perfect
(05:33):
enlightenment where you nolonger need a physical body and
can manipulate the elementalforces directly.
But standing in your way aresecret societies, particularly
the Knights Templar.
Of course, it was the 90s.
Every conspiracy game featuredthe Knights Templar, and these
guys viewed the Nephilim as athreat to be eliminated or
(05:53):
enslaved.
This was genuinely inspiredstuff.
The past life system alone wasrevolutionary for its time.
Most RPGs gave you a paragraphor two of background and called
it character creation.
Nephilim was asking you to builda character whose personal
history spanned millennia.
Did you witness the fall ofTroy?
Were you there when Rome burned?
(06:14):
Did you whisper in Napoleon'sear?
These meant just colour.
Then you had mechanicalimplications and gave your
character genuine depth.
The elemental system wasequally clever.
Instead of the usual fantasyraces or character classes, you
had these five archetypal forcesthat shaped both your
personality and your magicalcapabilities.
It felt genuinely differentfrom anything else on the market
(06:37):
, and the setting itself wasfascinating.
This wasn't just the modernworld, but, with secret magic,
this was a conspiracy theorist'sdream, where the Illuminati and
the Templars and all the othersecret societies were real and
they were all scheming againsteach other whilst Nephilim tried
to navigate this hidden world.
It had that same appeal as theX-Files.
The idea was that there wasthis whole secret history
(07:00):
running parallel to the one wethought we knew.
So why didn't this brilliantconcept translate into gaming
success?
Well, as anyone who's actuallytried to run Nephilim will tell
you, the execution was well.
Let's be charitable and call itchallenging.
The first problem was the sheercomplexity of character
(07:21):
creation.
This wasn't something you couldjust knock out in 20 minutes
before the game started.
Creating a Nephilim characterwas a project.
You had to choose your dominantcat element, select your
metamorphosis, that's, asymbolic form your Nephilim
takes as it grows in power.
Pick your Arcanum one of 22secret mystical organisations,
(07:41):
and then work through multiplepast lives.
Each past life required rollingon tables, making choices about
your social status and figuringout what your character was
actually doing during thatperiod.
Now I'll admit that this wasactually a lot of fun.
There's something genuinelyengaging about building a
character with that much history.
But it took ages and itfront-loaded all the interesting
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decision-making into charactercreation rather than actual play
.
We'd spend entire sessions justmaking characters, and whilst
that was enjoyable in its ownright, it did rather highlight
that the most engaging part ofthe game might not actually be
the game itself.
Then there was the magic system.
Oh boy, the magic system.
(08:24):
Nephilim had what was probablythe most complex spellcasting
roles I've ever encountered inan RPG.
Magic wasn't just about rollingdice and spending points.
Every spell was modified byastrological factors the
positions of the planets, themonth, the day of the week all
of it mattered.
Working out the appropriatemodifier for a spell required
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consulting charts and doingcalculations that could take a
long time.
Ksam clearly recognised thatthis was a problem because
they'd released the GamesMaster's Veil Supplement that's
a GM screen to you and I.
That included something calledthe Celestial Alignment Wheel.
This was an actual physicalwheel that you could spin to
(09:08):
determine magical modifiersbased on celestial conditions.
The fact that they felt theneed to create a physical device
to handle the maths tells youeverything you need to know
about how complex this systemwas.
Now I can see what they weretrying to achieve.
Real world occultism does placeenormous emphasis on timing,
astrological correspondences andgetting the conditions just
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right for magical workings.
This system was trying tocapture that authentic occult
feel, but in practice it meantthat every time someone wanted
to cast a spell, the game groundto a halt whilst we worked out
whether the stars were right ornot.
The core system was KSM's basicrole-playing, the same engine
that powered Call of Cthulhu andRuneQuest.
(09:52):
That part worked fine.
It was a solid, proven systemthat used a percentage system
for checking skills.
But all the additionalcomplexity layered on top made
what should have beenstraightforward actions into
exercises in bookkeeping.
To KSM's credit, they clearlyrecognised some of these
(10:13):
problems and tried to addressthem with a supplement line.
The most important of these wasthe Games Master's Companion
released in 1996.
One of the biggest issues withthe core rulebook was that it
gave you all this wonderfulbackground and these complex
character creation roles, but itwas surprisingly light on
actually how to run a Nephilimcampaign.
(10:35):
Andy Butcher, writing in ArcaneMagazine noted that Nephilim
Games Masters have to work veryhard to prepare the game for
play, since the originalrulebook did not contain a lot
of information about runningadventures.
The Games Masters' companiontried to fill that gap,
providing advice on campaignstructure, sample adventures and
(10:56):
guidelines for the kind ofstories that worked best in the
setting.
Kenneth Haidt contributed twomajor supplements Secret
Societies in 1995 and MajorArcana in 1997.
Both were excellent books thatfleshed out the setting
considerably.
Secret Societies did exactlywhat it said on the tin,
(11:18):
providing detailed informationabout the various human
organisations that the Nephilimhad to deal with.
Major Arcana expanded on the 22mystical tribes that the
Nephilim could belong to.
There was also Liber Kaa in1997, which provided alternative
magic rules that weresupposedly more in keeping with
(11:39):
real world ceremonial magicaltraditions.
They never actually used theserules, but they were described
as creating subtler effects noHollywood flashbang magic which
suggests they were trying tomove away from the overly
complex astrological system.
The thing is, this system wasalready very ritualistic, a far
cry from D&D's spell slots andflashier effects.
(12:01):
The problem was that thesesupplements, good as they were,
felt like patches for afundamentally flawed system.
The core game neededsubstantial revision, not just
additional content, and by thetime these books were coming out
, nephilim was alreadystruggling commercially.
I actually did manage to runNephilim once, back in the late
(12:22):
90s.
I'd been wanting to try it foryears, ever since reading that
original review in Valkyrie, andI finally convinced my gaming
group to give it a go.
Character creation took twosessions.
That's right, two sessions.
Now, as I mentioned earlier,this wasn't entirely unenjoyable
.
There's something genuinelyfascinating about building a
character with thousands ofyears of history.
(12:43):
We had lengthy discussionsabout what our characters might
have been doing during varioushistorical periods, how they
might have encountered doingduring various historical
periods, how they might haveencountered each other in past
lives and what their ultimategoals were.
It felt like collaborativeworld building of the best sort.
But when we actually startedplaying well, that's where
things started to fall apart.
The game had all the complexityof character creation, but none
(13:07):
of the narrative momentum webuilt up during that process.
We spent ages looking up rules,consulting the astrological
charts every time someone wantedto cast a spell and generally
getting bogged down in themechanics.
More fundamentally, though,basic premise started to feel a
bit hollow once we actuallystarted playing it, despite all
(13:28):
the wonderful background aboutsecret societies and hidden
history.
What we ended up with felt likejust another game about magical
protagonists on the run from asecret group of bad guy magical
folks.
Now, this might have been downto my execution as a GM.
I'll freely admit that Iprobably didn't give Nephilim
the attention it deserved.
(13:48):
But by that point we'd alreadydiscovered Mage of the Ascension
and, frankly, the technocracymade for much more interesting
villains than the Templars.
White Wolf's take on secretmagical societies felt more
immediate and relevant to the90s, whilst Nephilim's
conspiracy theories felt thatthey belonged to an earlier era.
The past life system, which hadbeen so engaging during
(14:10):
character creation, turned outto be surprisingly irrelevant
during actual play.
Yes, your character might havebeen a peasant in pre-dynastic
Egypt, but what did thatactually mean when you were
investigating supernaturalhijinks in modern New York?
Looking back now, I thinkNephilim fell victim to several
classic design problems.
(14:32):
The first was what I'd callComplex State for Complexity's
sake.
The magic system wasn't complexbecause complexity served the
game's themes or made for moreinteresting play.
It was complex because some maythought that real occultism was
complex.
Therefore the game should becomplex too.
That's getting the relationshipbetween simulation and fun
(14:54):
exactly backward.
The second problem was that thegame never really figured out
what it wanted to be tonally.
Was it a serious exploration ofoccult themes and historical
mysteries?
Was it a pulp adventure gameabout supernatural beings
fighting secret societies?
Was it a philosophical gameabout the nature of
(15:15):
enlightenment and transcendence?
Different parts of the gameseemed to be pushing in
different directions and theresult was something that never
quite achieved focus.
The third issue was markettiming.
Nephilim came out just as theRPG market was becoming
increasingly crowded with gamesthat did similar things but
(15:35):
better.
Vampire had already sewn up theplaying inhuman immortals
market, modern occultism withmuch more streamlined systems.
Nephilim was trying to be allthese things at once and ended
up being none of themparticularly well, but perhaps
most importantly, the gamesuffered from what modern
(15:58):
designers call the awesomecharacter sheet syndrome.
All the cool stuff about yourcharacter, the millennia of
history, the connection toelemental forces and ancient
wisdom was on your charactersheet rather than emerging
through play.
The character creation processwas engaging because it was
where all the interestingdecision making actually
(16:19):
happened.
Actually, playing the characterwas less interesting because
you'd already made all theimportant choices.
Despite his commercial failureand make no mistake, nephilim
was a commercial failure forKSEM, the game has maintained a
devoted following.
Part of this is because thecore concept really is quite
brilliant.
There is something genuinelycompelling about playing
(16:41):
immortal beings with a vasthistorical perspective, and the
elemental magic system doescreate a different feel from the
usual D&D-der derived fantasy.
The past life system inparticular has influenced later
game design.
You can see echoes of it ingames like Wraith the Oblivion,
which dealt with characters fromdifferent historical periods,
(17:01):
and more recently in games likeLegacy, life Amongst the Ruins,
which explicitly deals withcharacters whose stories span
generations.
The French editions of the gamecontinued to evolve and improve
, with several more editionsbeing released over the years.
From what I've heard frompeople who played the later
French versions, many of thesystem issues were eventually
(17:22):
resolved, but by then theEnglish-speaking market had
moved on.
I've always wanted to revisitNephilim.
The core ideas are strongenough that I keep thinking
there must be a way to make itwork.
Maybe with a simpler magicsystem, Maybe with more focus on
what the characters areactually trying to achieve
rather than what they've done inthe past.
Maybe with a clearer sense ofwhat tone the game is trying to
(17:44):
achieve, because, despite all ofmy criticisms, there really is
something rather special aboutNephilim.
It was one of the first RPGs toseriously engage with real
world occultism rather than justfantasy magic with different
names.
The research that went into thebackground was genuinely
impressive.
You could tell that thedesigners had done their
(18:05):
homework about hermetictraditions, historical secret
societies and the actualpractice of western esotericism.
The game also had a uniqueapproach to the relationship
between power and knowledge.
In most RPGs, gainingexperience makes you
straightforwardly better ateverything.
In Nephilim, each past lifegave you new skills but
(18:28):
diminished your raw elementalpower.
It was a fascinating trade-offthat reflected real occult ideas
about the relationship betweenwisdom and transcendence, and
the sheer ambition of the thingwas admirable.
This wasn't a game content tostick to familiar fantasy tropes
or obvious horror cliches.
It was trying to createsomething genuinely different or
(18:50):
obvious horror cliches.
It was trying to createsomething genuinely different, a
game that would make playersthink about history,
consciousness and the nature ofreality itself.
The fact that it didn't quitesucceed doesn't diminish the
fact that it tried.
In an industry that's oftencriticised for playing things
safe, nephilim was willing totake genuine risks.
It assumed its players wereintelligent enough to engage
(19:12):
with complex ideas andsophisticated enough to
appreciate historical and occultreferences.
Looking back at Nephilim now, itfeels like a game that was
ahead of its time in some waysand behind it in others.
The complexity that made itdifficult to play in the 90s
would be absolutely unthinkablein today's market where
streamlined systems and playeraccessibility are paramount.
(19:34):
But the thematic sophisticationand the willingness to engage
seriously with occult ideasfeels very modern.
There's definitely been aresurgence of interest in the
occult themes in RPG design.
While Unknown Armies and DeltaGreen were pioneering conspiracy
games from the 90s, morerecently titles like Monster of
the Week, liminal Urban Shadowsand Night's Black Agents all
(19:55):
deal with conspiracy and hiddenrealities in ways that Nephilim
was exploring back in 1994.
The difference is that thesemodern games have learned to
present complex ideas throughsimpler mechanics.
So that's Nephilim a game thatcould have been great and in
some ways was great.
Despite its flaws.
It was a genuinely innovativedesign that tried to do
(20:17):
something different with magicat a time when the RPG market
saw magic as flashy D&D spells.
The fact that it didn't quitework shouldn't overshadow the
fact that it tried to work inways that were genuinely
ambitious and creative.
Every time I see Nephilimmentioned online or spot a copy
in a second-hand game shop, Ifeel a little pang of
(20:38):
wistfulness.
This is a game that deservedbetter than it got Better
execution, better timing, maybejust better luck.
But in another sense it gotexactly what it deserved A
devoted following of players whorecognised its potential and
were willing to overlook itsflaws.
In an industry that's oftenaccused of recycling the same
ideas over and over again,nephilim stands as a reminder
(20:59):
that there are still someunexplored possibilities, still
innovative approaches waiting tobe discovered.
It might not have been the gameit could have been, but it was
definitely the game thatsomebody needed to try to make.
And who knows, maybe somedaythe French that I'm learning in
Duolingo will become good enoughthat I can pick up a copy of
the French second edition andactually understand what it's
(21:21):
all about.
All I need to do is find thatDuolingo module about obscure
Western, esoteric, occult terms.
I wonder if they did that.
(21:49):
And that was our Nephilimepisode.
I hope you enjoyed that littlemicro-history of one of those
games.
That could have been great.
We are a semi-regular podcast onthe history of RPGs.
We have over 70 episodes now,so if you're a new listener,
take a look at our backcatalogue and you'll find all
(22:10):
sorts of history episodes likethis, roundtables, interviews,
product reviews and actual plays.
And if you enjoyed it, please,please, leave us those lovely
five stars on your podcastdirectory of choice.
It really helps with ourvisibility and it gives us a
warm, fluffy feeling inside thatmakes us want to make more
(22:30):
episodes.
If you want to get in touchwith us, maybe to tell us about
your experience with Nephilim,you can do so via email on
rolltosavepod at gmailcom, oryou can find us on Instagram and
Facebook by searching for Rollto Save.
Thanks again for listening anduntil next time, may your
(22:51):
elemental forces always remainin balance and stay away from
those pesky knights templar.
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