July 1, 2025 • 61 mins
Jordan sits down with bestselling author of Under Your Spell Laura Wood. They discuss Laura's latest title- Let's Make a Scene, a mutual love for tension in romance, iconic moments from pop culture that found their way into her book, her 10 year journey as an author, and a couple Vampire Diaries tangents.
Let's Make a Scene is out now! It's a rivals to lovers rom-com that follows two costars at the start of their career and again 13 years later when they reunite. They're forced to pretend to be dating to gain publicity for their movie, all while navigating conflicting feelings towards each other. You'll find it full of tension, hilarious banter, hot chemistry, and iconic moments!
https://www.instagram.com/lauracwood/
https://www.instagram.com/romancerecspod/
https://www.threads.net/@romancerecspod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:03):
Welcome to Romance Recs.
We're romance obsessed besties,sharing book recommendations
broken down by genres and tropesso you can be sure you are
getting exactly what you wantout of your next read.
I'm Jordan and I am currentlyreading Role for Romance by
Lenora Woods, and I'm listeningto Dear Reader by Tate James.
(00:25):
And I have someone do with metoday.
It's very exciting.
Laura (00:28):
Hi.
Hi.
Sorry.
I didn't know if I was supposedto.
Jordan (00:32):
Yeah, go for it.
Just jump right in.
Yay.
We're excited to have you.
Thank you so much.
Are you reading anythingcurrently or are you just so
busy with everything
Laura (00:48):
Uh, I'm, I'm reading.
Jordan (00:49):
that.
Laura (00:50):
No, I'm, I'm reading loads of stuff.
I'm, I'm writing a lot at themoment, so I find that when I'm
writing I can't stop reading,but I don't like to read like
too close to what I'm writing.
So at the moment I'm reading,loads of Nora Roberts like
romantic suspense because givesme my romance fix, but it feels
(01:11):
like far enough away from theromcom for me to be like to, for
my brain to cope with that.
Jordan (01:18):
Yeah, that's fair enough.
What Nora, Robert, are youreading right now?
Do you
Laura (01:22):
Uh, at the moment I'm rereading Hidden Riches, which
is my number one favorite NoraRoberts novel.
I think it's pretty much theperfect book, so, yeah.
Jordan (01:33):
I love it.
Laura (01:34):
But I, but I actually only, started reading her last
year and it's so funny becauseI, you know, she's written like
hundreds of books.
She's so prolific and I justlike read them all.
I think for about three months.
I just read her solidly and readher whole huge, huge backlist
and I just love her.
I think she's incredible.
Jordan (01:55):
Yeah, I hadn't read any Nora Robert until this last
year, and I got an arc for one,I think it was The Mirror, and
it was like one of her morerecent series, obviously, if I
was reading the Arc.
But it was so good.
I was so intrigued.
I'm like, okay, I get it.
I'm here.
Laura (02:11):
Yeah.
That's her.
She has all these differentthreads and that, that is in
like her kind of moresupernatural.
Jordan (02:18):
Mm-hmm.
Laura (02:19):
She also has like, kind of quite straight like just
romance novels.
The ones that I really love andwhich I think you should
definitely get into are theromantic suspense novels.
She does them, so I don't, shehas this style in her writing
where she's so readable, likeyou just cannot, I dunno what
(02:40):
it's, I do not know what sheputs in her books, but you
cannot put them down.
She'll, she'll do these reallylengthy, one of my favorite
books of hers, there's so manythat I'm, I'm not good with the
titles, but one of my favoritebooks of hers is set in this
like hotel in a sort of, in likein the mountains and it's so
beautiful and the main characteris a bartender and she spends
(03:05):
like pages talking about likebartending and like making
signature cocktails.
And I do not understand whythat's so compelling, but I was
like, I'm so.
I'm so invested in these, inthese seasonal cocktails and I
wanna know.
Jordan (03:20):
I understand.
After reading a couple of hers,like for that series, I have
spent hundreds of pages aboutthis description of this house.
Like, I am invested in thishouse, but I'm not bored.
Like I, it's you're there andyou just kinda get
Laura (03:33):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
She sets you and she's anincredible writer.
I dunno how she does that, but Iwish I did, but it's great.
Jordan (03:41):
whatever she's doing, it's
Laura (03:43):
Exactly.
Jordan (03:45):
Perfect.
All right, well, before we jumpinto all things, let's make a
scene, which is your latest bookthat's coming out next week when
this episode airs.
It's out now.
Um, so, but we usually startwith quotes.
I have a quote from the book.
Let's make a scene by Laura Woodherself.
Um, so this quote was one of myfavorites.
(04:10):
I just, there were so many funscenes in this book.
It was kind of hard to choose,but I went with this one'cause I
think it really sums up so muchabout the two of them, Cynthia
and Jack.
And so this is from Jack's pointof view.
This is from their early years,and it says, Cynthia Hisses, I
(04:32):
won't be satisfied until he isfaced down in the dirt weeping
for his mother.
I don't even wanna think aboutwhy the weird feelings of
arousal intensify at this.
That's going to require theintervention of a qualified
psychoanalyst.
It was to be, it was perfect.
(04:52):
Their history.
I mean, I didn't even includewhat he says next, which is also
hilarious, but
Laura (05:01):
there,
Jordan (05:01):
it's good.
Laura (05:02):
there like sparring and back and forth was the most fun
to write.
And also so funny.
But that specific quote that youjust mentioned is there, there
are so many lines and scenes inthis book that are sort of
either overtly or secretlyreferences to my favorite like
books and film and television,and that line is heavily
(05:26):
inspired by a line that LeslieNope says in Parks and
Recreation.
Jordan (05:30):
Thank you.
That's what I was thinking thewhole time because I'm a huge,
Laura (05:35):
Okay.
Jordan (05:36):
yeah.
Laura (05:38):
was my moment where I was like.
Jordan (05:43):
I love that you did that intentionally because that's
exactly what I imagined in mybrain.
And then poor Ben Wyatt lookedaround like, why am I not more
concerned about this?
But also I'm a little concerned.
Laura (05:56):
But also like he's really, I love that dynamic
between Ben and Leslie and thatthey have that moment where
they, they understand each otherso well and he's kind of, they,
they're at that point whenthey're fighting, but they're
also really into each other andyou, and part of what's fun is
their, like, shared intensityover the, that particular
moment.
So yeah, that was a referencefor that.
(06:18):
So I'm de so delighted that weget to talk about that.
Jordan (06:23):
Oh, I love it.
Okay.
I'll let you do your quote thenbefore I really jump into more
about your book and things Inoticed because now I'm excited.
Laura (06:32):
Okay.
Me too.
Um, well, my create is, isdifferent.
I, I actually, so like I said,at the moment, I'm.
I'm writing a lot, and one ofthe things that I'm writing is a
book about one of my favoriteauthors, a British author, Eva
Sson.
She's not so well known in theStates, which is, you know, a
(06:52):
really a shame because she was afantastic writer.
And, um, she wrote these really,really, really beautiful
historical romance novels.
If you like historical romance,you should for sure check her
out.
Um, but I was, so I'm working onthis book about her, and this
morning I was working on it and,and I was thinking, you know,
(07:12):
that you had said maybe choose aquote and, and I, um, was
writing and, and one of herbooks is called The Morning
Gift.
It's.
Fantastic.
It's about a young woman who hasto leave Austria during the
second World War because she'sJewish and she enters to, to
(07:33):
kind of get her out of Austria.
She enters into this marriage ofconvenience with a, a British
man, and it's so romantic, andthen it's like very emotional
and very funny, and she isdeeply, deeply passionate about
music.
And there, so the quote that I,I highlighted this morning was,
(07:54):
um, I want to live like musicsounds, and I think it's so
beautiful and romantic anddreamy and such a good
indication of the kind of booksthat Eva writes.
So that was my quote that Ipicked.
Jordan (08:09):
yeah.
I like that.
It's very thought provoking.
I'm ha I'm sitting here like, itkind of just keeps resonating as
you think about it.
I like
Laura (08:16):
Yeah, and I think it's partly about like being so
passionate about something andwanting to live a life that's
big and beautiful and that meanssomething.
And I think that's a really neatand clever way of kind of
distilling that big idea intoquite a small sentence.
(08:36):
And she's so talented at doingthat as a writer.
Jordan (08:40):
Thank you so much for sharing that with us.
That sounds really good.
I'm gonna have to look that upnow so let's jump in you new
latest title.
Let's make a scene.
Cynthia and Jack, will you giveus a synopsis for those that
haven't already looked it up orare familiar
Laura (08:58):
Sure.
Yes, of course.
So let's make a scene is abouttwo actors, Jack and Cynthia,
and it tells the story of whenthey first meet, and their young
actors making their, both makingtheir first film together, which
is a period romance.
And, um, they do not get on atall.
(09:20):
They hate each other.
Things go very badly.
But the chemistry between themis so good on screen that the
studio says, suggests that whenthey're promoting the film, it
would be great if they couldpretend to be in a relationship.
Together.
13 years later, the, they, the,you know, things ended badly
between them.
They vowed they'd never see eachother again.
(09:42):
And 13 years later, they getasked to make the sequel to this
film.
And at the same time, the studiowould like them to revive their
fake relationship.
But obviously 13 years is a longtime.
Things have changed.
The way we access celebritieshas changed a lot.
Um, and so the two of them haveto come back together, both
(10:03):
expecting to meet the personthat they knew 13 years ago.
And I think they're both quitesurprised by what they actually
find.
And so we move between 13 yearsago and the present day, and we
see them kind of making both ofthese films and what that.
Jordan (10:18):
Yeah.
And it's so fun.
so fun.
I, it comes across when you readit, it really does.
Every chapter.
I'm just like, this would've,this is so fun.
And kind of what you mentionedearlier about that scene, how it
was inspired by the Leslie No,which parks AndRecs fan.
(10:41):
Personally, it's my favorite,but like you can see different
threads of big moments from.
Pop culture and other shows andmovies throughout without it
feeling like you've read thisstory before.
I, that's what is so fun.
Laura (11:00):
Yeah.
Well, I really felt like it waskind of, I think maybe the fact
that it was about the making afilm just felt like it really
unlocked that.
Potential for me where I couldbe quite self-referential.
And it could be really, youknow, like it could be really
obvious that there are bigmoments that get referenced.
Like the lift in dirty dancing,there's like that scene.
(11:24):
And there are loads of like,there are specific references to
like loads of Nora Ephron films.
And then there's scenes that Iwas like, this is like my
version of the press conferencescene in Notting Hill and like
all these wrong calls that I waslike, oh, it would be so fun to
do a kind of little nod to thatand to be able to put that in.
(11:44):
So it was really fun for mebecause as I was writing, I was
just referencing, it's sort oflike a compilation of all my
favorite things.
And so I feel like you get thejoy out of that.
And I feel like for a lot ofpeople who love reading romance
and reading rom-coms, it's this,it, we share the love of the
(12:04):
same kind of culturaltouchstones, you know?
So
Jordan (12:07):
Yes.
Laura (12:08):
it's fun to see those pop up.
Jordan (12:10):
Yeah, it was, and that's, like I said, it was so
fun and it still felt genuineand natural when reading it.
It didn't feel like, oh, youtried to put this instance in
there.
Like, I know the big thing thatI read that you posted was that
it kind of all centered aroundthat kiss from like the notebook
(12:32):
and their scene.
Yeah.
So is that what kind of sparkedeverything was you just, that
was so memorable and monumentalin.
Laura (12:45):
Yeah, so, so the way this book actually came about was
that, I had written my adultdebut, um, under Your Spell,
which came out last year.
And we were taking that out topublishers and we were kind of
selling it as part of a two bookdeal.
And so my agent Louise, who'sreally good friend of mine, said
(13:07):
to me, do you like, do you haveany thoughts about what you
might like a, a second book tolook like?
And I literally said to her.
Well,, I'm thinking quite a lotabout the 2005 MTV movie awards
for best kids.
I mean, like Outta nowhere.
And then the really fun thingwas, was like she was just
(13:30):
immediately like, oh my God, metoo.
All the shy.
And, and so we started havingthis conversation where we were
just bouncing backwards andforwards off each other.
Like so giddy.
This kind of like, and then whenhe's wearing the D four T-shirt
and then when she like adjustsher top and then when he's
chewing the chewing Girl andthen when, and you know, like
play by play without it in frontof us.
(13:52):
And then when it comes toLindsay Lohan and she looks so
happy.
And so we, so we were both justso kind of thrilled by this and
I felt like, yeah, I think thisis such a nice moment and such a
nice place to, to think aboutstarting a book.
And, and so what I also lovedabout that, for people who don't
know, is.
(14:12):
In 2005, Rachel McAdams and RyanGosling won the MTV movie awards
for like a prize for Best Kiss,and they a notebook and they
reenacted the, the kiss thatthey do in the notebook on
stage.
And it's incredible.
And if you haven't watched it,or even if you have, you should
go and watch it right
Jordan (14:30):
Yeah.
Relive that.
Laura (14:32):
Yeah, really that moment, the, the like, the adrenaline
rush is incredible.
Um, but, but I think at thetime, one of the things that was
really nice about it was.
Um, that they were a couple inreal life, and that was how
everyone found out that theywere a couple in real life.
And, um, it was 2005, so wedidn't have like the same in
(14:56):
level of access to celebritiesthat we have now.
So it was, we were so giddy overit.
Um, but also what I enjoyedabout the whole thing was the
fact that the backstory to thatmoment was that the two of them
apparently did not get on whenthey were film making the film.
(15:16):
Um, they really fought and thenlater they had this
relationship.
And I was thinking about this,like, this is such a good
romance novel, right?
Jordan (15:26):
Yeah.
Laura (15:27):
trope, you know, when people are talking about, you
know, whether tropes arerealistic.
It's like, look at this, thisstory is made or romance.
Um, and so that was where itstarted was this idea.
I was thinking it would be sofun to have like young actors
who hated each other and had tomake this film and they had this
(15:48):
incredible chemistry and thenwhat would happen, you know, if
they came back together olderand wiser and different.
And so yeah.
So that was where the novelstarted.
And it even has in, let's make ascene.
One of my absolute favoriteparts of it is I put the MTV
Movie Awards Best Kiss in it.
(16:08):
They win
Jordan (16:09):
so good.
Laura (16:10):
It's so good.
It like, I was.
Absolutely flying.
When I wrote it, I just
Jordan (16:16):
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry I'm laughing becauseI'm thinking of the scene, so
Laura (16:20):
yeah, yeah,
Jordan (16:21):
me over here.
Laura (16:22):
that's a really good Steve Carrell coming in.
Jordan (16:25):
Not now.
Laura (16:27):
Steve, if I had, if I had chosen a quote from my own book
at the beginning of the episode,that's what I would've chosen,
not now, Steve Carre, possiblythe most unhinged line I've ever
written, but one of my all timefavorite, so I'm so glad.
Jordan (16:46):
I just picture him like trying to find the exit.
Like
Laura (16:51):
Yeah.
Jordan (16:52):
if you dunno what we're talking about, please go read
the book because it is iconic.
Laura (16:57):
Read the, and then you'll understand why.
That's my favorite line.
Jordan (17:04):
I'm sorry.
Take a moment for that scene.
Laura (17:07):
Yeah.
Jordan (17:07):
It was so good.
Oh, thank you for that.
That was amazing.
And the inspiration I think wasperfect because the inspiration
already has all this tension,right?
And, and I can FI can feel thetension.
I can feel the reluctanthostility.
The reluctant attractionthroughout the entire book.
(17:30):
And I love jumping timelines andtheir personal journey and
seeing it change from chaptersto chapters, right.
As you read through the book.
'cause in one chapter you'llread them and they're young and
immature and they're blindlyconfident in themselves.
And in the next, you see them 13years later when they're
(17:51):
established adults and eitherwhere they've grown to or where
they are stuck.
And it was so fun to read.
'cause at the core, they didfeel like the same characters.
Right.
But you could see and feel thedifference and the growth that
they had done
Laura (18:13):
That's so nice.
That's so nice because that,that's really what I wanted.
And I think 13 years is a longtime, but specifically that 13
years between, at the beginningof the book, so in the 13 years
earlier timeline, Cynthia is 20and Jack is 24, I think 25 and
so and so, and then 13 yearslater, obviously they're in
(18:35):
their thirties.
And um, it felt to me like thatwas so interesting because one
of the traits that I, as a hugeromance reader have, um, don't
always love is miscommunication.
And I felt like in this book, itwas so fun to be able to explore
(18:56):
that in as much as, because thebook is dual timeline and
because the book is dualperspective, you really, really,
really get to know thecharacters very well, which is
something that I hadn't reallythought about when I started
writing it.
But, but when I was writing it,I became hyper aware of that.
I felt like by the end of it, Iwas like, I know these two
(19:17):
characters better than anycharacter I've ever written
because I've been with them for13 years and from their early
twenties to their late thirties,like, it, it felt like, felt
such a huge journey to go onwith them.
And so you see that in theearlier timeline.
This isn't really a spoiler oranything, but in the earlier
(19:37):
timeline.
You as a reader can see bothsides of what's happening, like
what he sees and what she sees.
And you can see why, like yousaid, because they're, they're
this weird mix of like superconfident and incredibly,
incredibly not confident andscared and insecure as, as so
(20:04):
many of us are at that age.
And so there is kind ofmiscommunication between them in
that they don't have the kind oftools to like open up to each
other and they misunderstandeach other.
And then what I really likedabout that was being able to
deal with that 13 years later.
So you are dealing with thefallout from that, but you are
(20:24):
also dealing with thencharacters who've.
Matured and done the work andlearned things about themselves.
And so they, I think there aremoments where they explicitly
have conversations wherethey'll, they'll say, I don't
want there to bemisunderstanding and
miscommunication between us.
Like, I want you to understandhow I'm feeling in this moment.
(20:46):
And it felt every time thathappened, it felt huge to me
because as a reader, you, youcan see that growth on the page.
Like, you know, that's not howthey would've handled it in the
past.
And it's so rewarding to seethem handle it differently in
the present.
So I really loved being able tospend that much time with them.
Jordan (21:05):
Yeah.
It showed it was.
Laura (21:07):
It's nice.
Jordan (21:08):
you do have a really big range in your book genre.
So I was going back and lookingat everything you've written
'cause you have things likeage-wise all across.
Can you tell me a little bitabout like your journey as an
author?
Not just this book, but justover your career?
Laura (21:24):
Yes, I do.
Um, so I, I actually started offwriting middle grade.
Um, I wrote middle grade fictionfirst and fairly quickly after I
was writing middle grade.
I, so, so this is in the uk I'vebeen working, my first book came
out actually 10 years ago thisyear.
So That's exciting.
(21:46):
Yeah, it's really nice.
I mean, I can't really believeit, but it's true.
So I started writing middlegrade, um, and my publisher
Scholastic was so incredible andthey, um, and I kind of went to
them fairly early on and said,you know, I have this idea for a
young adult novel.
Um, and I was really like, Imean, I don't know if you even
(22:08):
wanna hear about, I don't, Idon't know.
Um, it was so sweet andsupportive, and especially with
hindsight, like I,'cause Ididn't know anything about how
publishing worked or.
You know, like, I mean I had myagent with me, luckily, who
obviously knew how everythingworked, but for me, I went into
it quite naive.
And the books, the young adultbooks that I pitched to them are
(22:29):
historical romance, which isactually quite unusual, I think,
in the YA space in terms of um,like straight historical, by
which I don't mean heterosexual,but like non-fan, so they're
just in the real worldhistorical romance.
And so it was so nice that they,you know, like they picked that
(22:55):
up and so I started publishingya as well.
Ya romance is kind of up at thetop end of ya.
So the characters in it areusually like 18, 19.
Um, and I have from that areally lovely.
Kind of crossover audience.
So what if I do events for my YAbooks?
(23:15):
They'll usually be like ahandful of teenagers.
And then actually most of theaudience will be, you know, my
age or older.
And what's really lovely aboutthose books is that often like
multiple generations read themtogether.
So like, yeah, I, and I, and it,it happens so regularly now at
(23:37):
signings that I, I feel like,you know, I know that it happens
a lot, which is so nice thatthere'll be a mother and a
daughter or a grandmother anddaughter or, and they'll say, we
read your books together andit's so sweet.
It's so lovely to be that pointof connection with people.
So I was writing young adultfiction and I ha kind of had an
(24:00):
adult audience and my agentLouise had been saying to me for
ages, I think you have a.
Adult romcom in you.
And I was like, yeah, I, Iagree.
But you know, I'm busy.
I've got a lot of writing.
Writing.
And so when I wrote Under YourSpell, which is my adult debut,
(24:23):
it was just the most fun, weirdjourney because what happened
was I had the idea for it, Iwrote the first page of it in my
notes app in the middle of thenight on my phone because I was
like, oh my God, this would besuch a fun book.
And I know, and I have it.
(24:45):
And it's so funny because it'sword for word, the first page of
the finished novel.
And
Jordan (24:49):
impressive.
That doesn't happen often.
Laura (24:52):
yeah, my sleepy brain was doing good.
Um, yeah.
And more sleeping obviously.
And so I wrote, I wrote, Iliterally sat down and just for
fun, I wrote the first chapterof it and I sent it to Libby,
ease my agent.
And I said, look, I know you'vebeen saying this for ages, but I
(25:15):
just wrote this chapter, what doyou think?
And she emailed reckon, shesaid, I love it so much, write
more.
And so every day I was likewriting a chapter and then
emailing it to her, like a game,like just for this audience of
one person to make her laugh.
And she would then send me allthese notes back saying, yeah, I
(25:36):
love it so much.
And, and after like a couple ofweeks, we were both like, I
think this might be a book.
I think this is a book.
I think I'm making a book.
Jordan (25:45):
I think you should commit to this.
Laura (25:47):
Yeah.
So funny because then, so then Ijust wrote the first draft.
It came out.
Like incredibly smoothly.
And you know, I've been inpublishing at this point for a
long time.
I know how slowly everythingmoves, but with under your
spell, everything happenedinsanely first.
Like I finished her first draft.
(26:08):
She took it out on submission topublishers in the uk and like a
week later it was in like anauction.
It was in an auction in theStates.
It was like there just a lot ofstuff happening really fast.
So it was really fun and it, Ithink it was really nice that at
that point I had all thesesmall, I had all these books
(26:30):
behind me and I think it's niceto feel like that can happen for
an author that you can, you cankind of build.
Quietly and slowly as a writerrather than having one shot, a
big splashy debut, you know,which I think I was so fortunate
(26:51):
that I had the journey that Ihad.
'cause I think that happens alot where, you know, the, the
writers who get these big debutsand then if the book doesn't do
as well as people hope, thenit's like game over.
And I felt like it was so niceto go into this whole thing
with, with a much broaderperspective of how publishing
(27:12):
worked and a lot more solid workbehind me and a sense of kind of
confidence I suppose thatwouldn't have been there
otherwise in my writing and mywork as a writer.
So, yeah, so, and it just meantI was so able to appreciate,
like, I knew it was special, doyou know what I mean?
(27:33):
It wasn't.
Jordan (27:34):
Yes, definitely.
Laura (27:36):
I been like, oh, so this is how it works.
But I knew it was special.
Jordan (27:41):
yeah, and that's kinda why I was like, I gotta look
this up.
I'm like, there's no way.
This is only her second book.
I was like, I knew I had heardof Under Your Spell, and I was
like, okay.
After I read this, like since Iloved it, I was like, I could go
back and read that one.
I haven't had a chance yet, but.
I was like, there's gotta bemore.
I was like, there's gotta be.
I'm sure I will.
I like this.
This is too, polished, welldone.
(28:04):
Like just overall.
It doesn't feel like a secondbook from an author, so I was
like, I gotta figure this out.
I gotta go.
I gotta do more research.
I gotta talk to her.
So,
Laura (28:13):
so nice.
But I would say actually that's,that's a, that, that's really
kind of you and it, and I feellike this whole conversation is
so good for my ego.
But, but also, do you know, whenI started writing books, I think
there was a huge part of me thatfelt like when you are a writer,
(28:35):
you have a sort of finite amountof talent and like you have,
that's what you are bringing.
And it didn't, this sounds sofoolish now, but it didn't occur
to me that I would get better.
Um, because I've spent, I'vespent 10 years being edited by
(28:55):
incredible editors and workingwith my publishers.
And so I've learned how to put abook together.
Better.
And
Jordan (29:06):
Yeah.
Laura (29:06):
I learn and when I write now, my drafts come out so much
cleaner.
Like I will do one less draftthan I used to do full.
I don't usually have to do touchwood.
I don't usually have to do likea big structural edit, because
when I'm writing my first draft,I feel like I have my agent's
(29:28):
voice in my head and my editor'svoice in my head, and I know
that they'll say, you know, Hmm.
You haven't really explainedenough there or Hmm.
That like, we need to pause inthis moment a bit longer, or,
Hmm.
You need to go back and checkthe age of that person because
you said that this year, thisearlier on.
(29:50):
And so I'm kind of at a pointnow where I've written so many
books and I've, and I've beenlucky to work with so many
amazing people that I'm kind ofself-editing as I'm going.
So it's not, I don't know what Ithink anymore about how much
talent someone has, but like thetech side of it, of putting a
(30:11):
book together.
Of course you can improve andget better at that.
Of course you can.
Jordan (30:16):
Well, and we've talked about that before on our
podcast, because we follow, wetry to follow a lot of indie
authors and so we have somethat, you know, some of us have
been following since like theirfirst or second book.
And we talk about it like it'snot that those, those books
aren't bad, their first ones.
We love them.
We fell in love with the author.
We fell in love with thestories, right.
But there is just, I don't knowif it's a maturity in writing
(30:39):
and kind of like you said, morepolished and you kind of know
where you're gonna edit beforeyou have to go through and edit.
So you're just doing it thefirst time through, which means
edits make it flow even better.
And so it's just so fun to watchcareers like that too, from
authors.
And so that's why when I readit, I was like, uh, no.
(31:02):
Gotta go see, like what got youto this point and where, so this
such a fun journey.
To hear
Laura (31:08):
Yeah, and I think that's really, I think that's really
insightful observation,particularly about indie
writers, like you say, becausein some ways, because they're
outside this model of.
Traditional publishing whereit's like you are like one and
done kind of thing.
They have the space to likesimilar to me in a way.
(31:32):
Like they have the space overyears to, to figure out the best
way for them.
'cause that's the other thing isthere's no single way to write a
book.
So you have to also figure out,it took me several books to work
out for me.
What was the best and easiestway for me to put a book
together.
Jordan (31:53):
And what is that?
Is it, do you, you said youwould do it chapter by chapter,
so does that mean you justfollow it chronologically, like
plotter pants?
It sounds like you kind of likeplot as you, do you plot as you
go, or do you already have it
Laura (32:04):
no.
So in most areas of my life I'mvery messy and disorganized.
But when I'm writing a book, Ihave a very rigid structure and
plan and that is that I do a, avery.
Detailed outline before I sitdown to write anything.
So that can be somewhere betweenfive and 10,000 words.
(32:27):
And then I will break thatoutline down chapter by chapter.
And then, I will, so when I, forme, everything that I do is
about avoiding having a blankpage in front of me.
So when I sit down to write achapter, I will have next to the
document, like, I will have,this is what's happening in this
chapter.
This is what you need to write.
(32:49):
So I always have it reallyplanned out.
Like within that plan, obviouslythere's loads of stuff that
happens in the moment and a lotof dialogue, almost all of the
dialogue happens in the momentas I'm writing.
Like it'll be like, oh, I need,I know they need to have a
conversation here, and theoutcome of the conversation
needs to be this.
And so then it's just likeputting them in a room together
(33:10):
and writing the dialogue.
Um, so that's the way that worksfor me.
And then with, let's make ascene.
It was obviously liketechnically a huge challenge for
me because I write very, like Iwrite chronologically, I write
from the first line to the endline.
If I know there's a scene thatI'm excited about, I don't get
(33:33):
to write it until I'm up to thatpoint in the book.
Um, yeah, well, and I'm so rigidabout that.
And then with this book, it wasso complicated because obviously
there's the two timelines and itmoves around.
And then, um, so I went into itthinking I'm gonna write it
(33:54):
chronologically, like I'm gonnawrite all of the past and then
all of the present, and then I'mgonna mix it up.
And what ended up happening wasnot that.
I, I end, I did it in biggerchunks than the final book ended
up, but I did move around a bit.
Like I would do a big chunk ofthe past, and then I would think
(34:17):
this is very obviously a placewhere it's gonna break.
And so I would start writingsome of the present, and then I
would go back.
And then when we were editing,it was really fun because we
didn't change any of thestructure.
We just like, like literallypicked up chapters of me.
Jordan (34:34):
oh, that's so neat.
Laura (34:36):
Yeah.
So it was really, and then, andthen it was just about making
sure that everything, like readsmoothly with it like that, so,
so that was, yeah.
So technically it was reallychallenging and partly because I
would say with all of my books,they're very character driven
books.
Um, it's not like action,action, action.
(34:57):
They're really driven bycharacter development.
And I'm really interested inwhat's happening in their lives
and in their brains.
And so that was complicated inthis because usually I would
have a clear arc for acharacter.
Like, this is where they start,this is where they end up.
And for these characters,'causethey're moving backwards and
forwards.
(35:18):
And there's like a 13 year gapin the middle.
It was like the arcs were allover.
It wasn't an arc, it was like asound wave.
And, and so like for Jack,actually quite a lot of his big
emotional arc happens off page.
Like you meet him 13 yearsearlier and he's the one that,
(35:40):
when you meet him 13 yearslater, he's like, really done
the work.
He's been to therapy.
He's like, a lot of stuff that'shappened with his family.
Jordan (35:48):
He's found blood lost.
Mm-hmm.
Laura (35:52):
he's like, he's like, which is one of my other
favorite things, but he, soyeah.
So he's starring in this, hecomes from this line of.
Really, really famous and like,well-regarded, serious British
actors.
And the pressure on him in theearlier timeline is partly, is
(36:12):
so intense that you understandlike why he occasionally behaves
terribly.
Um, and then when we meet himagain 13 years later, he's like,
he's made peace with that.
He's starring in this, um,teenage vampire Netflix show
that I invented called BloodLust.
Jordan (36:30):
As a Vampire Diaries, fa like
Laura (36:32):
I know.
Jordan (36:33):
When I was young, watching'em live, come out every
week, this is amazing.
Laura (36:37):
Yes.
So for me as well, like Iabsolutely, yes, I absolutely
love a vampire show.
I'm actually really like,obsessed with the idea of blood
lust.
I'm like, it would be reallynice if people adapted to their
books into films or whatever,but can someone.
Jordan (36:53):
Yes.
It's kind of it from thedescription, it kind of sounded
like a mesh of like VampireDiaries, supernatural and Buffy.
It almost felt like
Laura (37:06):
I'm like a bit of charmed, like I
Jordan (37:08):
Yes.
Charmed.
Yes.
That's what I was forgetting.
I'm like, I know there's anolder one that I'm thinking of
that's loved it all.
Laura (37:15):
sure.
And so he's, so, he's like inthis TV show that his parents
really disapprove of, but he'slike having the time of his life
and he's so happy and welladjusted and so, so a lot of
what's brought him to that placehas happened, you know, off the
page in the gap where we are notwith these characters.
(37:35):
And so that was really fun aswell because it felt like, what
does that look like and whatdoes it look like through
Cynthia's eyes that he's changedand that he's done this work?
And it sort of helps her toreflect on the changes that have
happened in her life and whethershe's kind of looked some things
in the eye in the way that hehas and.
(37:56):
So it felt like a really nice,compelling way of having these
two characters really challengeeach other in both timelines.
Um, so yeah,
Jordan (38:06):
it was a nice mirror between timelines, um, and I
think the way you organized itwent really well.
'cause there are smaller timejumps, like on either end, so in
the beginning and the end, likeright, like through shooting,
through, waiting until thepremiere and all, all this
stuff.
So there were.
Many time jumps within thosetoo, so I can imagine that would
(38:27):
get complicated.
And it went really well.
I thought it read very smoothly,so
Laura (38:32):
That's nice.
I know, I know.
A, I know a dual timeline can bea really divisive thing for
readers, and I totally get that.
Like sometimes it's for me andso Yeah, I do too.
I think it's hard becauseinevitably, like you'll prefer
one timeline to the other.
Um, I actually felt like thatabout this book as well.
(38:54):
Like I, I, I preferred thewriting the present to the past,
but I feel in some ways that,and I think maybe that will be
the reading experience as well,but, the reason that the present
is so satisfying is because thepast chapters are there.
Like, that's what makes it workbecause the, the conflict and
(39:16):
all the exposition is.
In the past timeline, soeveryone's just like, for the
most part, everyone's justhaving a nice time in the
present, and
Jordan (39:27):
I know at first I was like, oh, get back to the
present.
But then by like one third ofthe way through, I was like, no,
I wanna hear what's happening inthe past.
How far did they take this?
I need to know.
Laura (39:41):
Yeah, that's what I wanted and that's how I felt
writing it as well.
And like I said, I had thatsensation of when I got to the
end of writing it, where I justfelt like, wow.
I.
I just, there's something reallyepic about this love story
that's lasted 13 years and thathas it, that allows for 13 years
(40:04):
of like pining and you know,like it really felt like oh,
this is, so, this gives it adepth for me that I really
enjoy.
And I just felt like how, what atreat it was to get to know them
so well.
Jordan (40:19):
Yeah.
And it came across, it was sofun.
Okay, so we'll break this up alittle bit and we'll take a
break from all the big questionsand we're just gonna play a
little game of this or that.
So it's just rapid fire.
I'll ask you this or that, andyou just gimme your gut
instinct, without thinking aboutit too much.
Laura (40:38):
I'm with you.
Not thinking I'm good at that.
Jordan (40:41):
Only slight judgment on the answers.
Nothing serious, but,
Laura (40:46):
Okay, now I'm thinking
Jordan (40:49):
all right.
Physical book or ebook?
Laura (40:53):
ebook these days.
Jordan (40:55):
Mm-hmm.
Sweet.
Or salty snacks while reading.
Laura (40:58):
Salty
Jordan (40:59):
Mm-hmm.
Good job.
Books that make you cry or booksthat make you laugh.
Laura (41:06):
Laugh, definitely
Jordan (41:08):
Okay.
This is a trope question.
One horse or one bed.
Laura (41:14):
one bed.
Jordan (41:15):
Mm-hmm.
Small town or billionaireromance.
Laura (41:19):
town.
Small town all the way.
Or preferably a billionaire in asmall town.
Jordan (41:24):
Yeah, that would be, just give it all to me, please.
Love it.
Standalone or series.
Laura (41:33):
well standalone, but I do love.
Like, so what, the same thingthat I've done with, let's make
a scene where they're, you canread it as a standalone, but
they're connected where you getthe cameos of the previous
Jordan (41:46):
Yeah.
Laura (41:47):
Yeah, that's my absolute favorite.
Jordan (41:49):
Okay.
Uh, fake dating or marriage ofconvenience.
Laura (41:54):
Oh, that's two of my favorites.
Um, I'm gonna say marriage ofconvenience, just'cause then you
get the, my wife, which
Jordan (42:05):
It's always ni never gets old.
Laura (42:08):
never, never, never gets old.
Just like
Jordan (42:13):
Okay.
Character driven or plot driven.
Laura (42:16):
character driven.
Jordan (42:17):
Mm-hmm.
And who are your top three bookboyfriends or swoon worthy
characters.
It can be your own if you'reobsessed with your own.
There's no judgment on that one.
Laura (42:30):
I'm obsessed with my own.
Okay.
Well, so I'm gonna go like verybasic and say Mr.
Darcy, because I think like he'sjust the model for a good book
boyfriend.
Like he does the work, he doesthe work on himself, he's
respectful.
He comes back and he, uh, whenhe, when he's like earned her,
(42:51):
he comes back.
He's been pining it's ideal.
Really, I think.
Absolutely wild that Jane Austenwas out there modeling healthy
relationships for us.
I'm gonna say definitely, um,I'm going to say of mine, I'm
gonna say Theo, from under yourspell, who you have to look
(43:13):
forward to, he does make a cameoin, let's make a scene, and he.
Jordan (43:20):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
I gotta know
Laura (43:22):
so, so you'll enjoy that and it's very fun to read about
the two of them together.
And then, I dunno who my thirdone would be.
I just read, um, problematicSummer Romance by Ali Hazelwood,
who is one of my favoriteromance writers.
And the only problem is, I can'tremember his, I think his, I'm
(43:44):
pretty sure his name is Connor.
And he was a
Jordan (43:46):
together after a while,
Laura (43:48):
I just,
Jordan (43:48):
they made me feel, but their name not so much.
Laura (43:52):
exactly.
Exactly.
And I think like when you are aromance reader and.
Generally a lot of romancereaders, like, uh, like me,
where we are, we are consumingjust an enormous amount of, of,
um, storytelling all the time.
But I love Ali Hazelwood.
I, and like I could not wait, I,I was trying to make myself re
wait to read that book.
(44:13):
Um, and I, I about 12 hours withit on my Kindle and I like, no,
I've gotta read it.
I've gotta read it.
I, it, it was so good.
Jordan (44:23):
I love
Laura (44:23):
Who are,
Jordan (44:23):
Thank you.
Oh my gosh.
No one's ever asked me.
I've always asked me.
It's okay.
Okay.
The microphone is turned.
Okay.
I would have to say
Laura (44:36):
yeah, so fun now.
Jordan (44:38):
Dar Darius Acru from Zodiac Academy by Caroline
Peckham and Suzanne Valenti.
Laura (44:46):
Oh my God.
You took it like quite dark,straight away.
Jordan (44:49):
Oh, I do love Dark Romance.
I'm gonna be, I am.
I am.
Laura (44:56):
Okay.
Now I know where we coming from.
That's good.
Jordan (44:58):
I do cont when I read Contemporary, it's more of like
a palette cleanser.
Like, oh, I'm gonna read thisfun one for a minute before I go
back to the dark side.
Laura (45:09):
Okay.
Okay.
I understand
Jordan (45:12):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh oh.
Oh my God.
Who else?
I know I have so many, but thenit's like,
Laura (45:21):
this is what happens.
Jordan (45:23):
I know I love Samkiel from, Amber v Nicole's, of God's
a Monsters series.
Laura (45:30):
Oh, I haven't read that yet.
Jordan (45:31):
It's really good.
It's not a finished series.
She has three out now.
Um, but it's, the Book of Israelis the first one
Laura (45:41):
Yeah, that's why I haven't, um, because I have a
real, I mean, I, I have a realproblem with waiting.
Like I'm so impatient that Iwould rather wait years until
they're all out and then I canbinge more.
So I, like, I haven't readFourth Wing yet.
Fourth Wing, I mean, because,because I was like, I can't read
(46:06):
it when there's gonna be like ayear plus between books.
It's too stressful.
Jordan (46:10):
That's fair.
That's fair.
I mean it ki I feel like italways changes, but right now I
just read the Arc for Accompliceto the Villain by Hannah Nicole
Mayer,
Laura (46:20):
Yes.
Jordan (46:22):
I'm obsessed with the villain, with Tristan.
I vere.
I just love him so much.
Laura (46:29):
Yeah, I
Jordan (46:30):
we actually got a chance to talk to her this last week
and do an interview with herabout it.
And I don't know if you've read.
Laura (46:35):
Yeah.
So I've read the first two.
Jordan (46:37):
Yeah.
This third one is actually myfavorite so far,
Laura (46:41):
Yay.
Okay.
Jordan (46:42):
I can't wait for you to read it because I fall.
I really fell in love withTristan.
Like I loved the story, but Ifell in love with the villain in
book three, and so I think he isnow made my top list, so.
Laura (46:55):
That's good.
Yeah, no, that makes me reallyhappy.
She's one of the like rareexceptions to my, I won't read
them till they're all out
Jordan (47:02):
Okay.
I was, that's why I was like,maybe we probably haven't read
it since it's not
Laura (47:05):
no, no.
Because I read the first one asan arc and I was like, because I
was like, oh my God, I can'twait.
And I think probably, I didn'trealize it was going to be a
series, and then I was like, ohno, while I'm in now, I guess so
much.
Um, but yeah, I love thatcharacter.
I love the villain.
So, and it's like so clever theway that she writes him.
(47:26):
And I like also that he doesn'tlike totally lose his like edge.
Like he keeps the villainousside of things go alive.
Like I don't want the villain tojust turn into like completely
the good guy.
That's not for me.
This is my dark side coming out.
Jordan (47:43):
no.
I, but, and the humor is sogood.
So you talk about like the, yourrom-com that you just wrote and
it's so funny but you don't seevery often, humor in fantasy.
I feel like you don't get that,and I think that's what made
that one so fresh.
So yeah, that's what makes him,he's like unapologetic.
(48:03):
He's polite, butunapologetically dark at the
same time.
But you don't feel like you'rereading anything dark.
Laura (48:10):
Yeah.
I also really enjoy that kind oftrope of someone who, and as I
know now you are a dark romancegirl.
I know this is gonna resonatewith you.
When it's like they're like goodto the people that they love,
but they would also, for thepeople that they love, they
would like burn the whole worlddown.
(48:31):
That's ideal for.
Jordan (48:33):
Yep, yep.
Uh, so speaking of, uh, of God'sa monster series, the Book of
Riel, the first book, Samkielthat's kind of how he is.
'cause he's technically the goodguy, but he will burn like the
universe for her.
Like it's, So, yep.
(48:54):
I love it.
Laura (48:56):
Because I'm like such a villain lover.
That's the trouble.
Like sometimes I'll be like, Ican't invest in this story if
you want me to believe thatshe's gonna choose the hero over
the villain.
It goes like back to my VampireDiaries days where I was like,
why would anyone choose Stefanover Damien?
It doesn't make sense to me.
Like I can't understand how thisis even a conversation that
(49:18):
we're having
Jordan (49:20):
Yes.
Yes.
If I can, in the end root forKlaus, though he is the most
horrible person ever,
Laura (49:30):
Hundred percent
Jordan (49:31):
like he was just hurt by his mother and his family.
Can someone just help him?
Please?
Laura (49:39):
I know we're, we're such red flags, but yeah.
There we go.
Jordan (49:43):
I admittedly, I do read a lot of Bully Romance, so when
Jack and Cynthia were like, youknow, just.
Laura (49:51):
Hated.
Jordan (49:52):
Hated.
I was like, yeah, yeah.
Hate each other.
Laura (49:57):
Yeah, because it's, it's hot as well.
Like I felt it was really fun.
So I was writing the book.
Ago ago.
And I was writing, it was sofunny because there is a sex
scene in like the, the firsttimeline, right?
And in, I wrote that scene onlike the hottest day of the year
(50:19):
and I was like, yes, this is howit feels like.
It felt so fun.
I always think those books areso much fun where, where you are
just like building the tensionto, to such an extent that it's
like really you are just like,ah, like you're as a reader, you
together so badly.
And they're like, the heatbetween them is so intense.
(50:40):
So yeah.
Jordan (50:41):
Yeah, it was great.
10 outta 10.
Loved it.
Laura (50:48):
I.
Jordan (50:50):
Yeah.
Perfect.
Um, so obviously you read a lotof romance, but what genre do
you like of books do you usuallyread?
Like when you're reading what'sthe majority?
Laura (51:03):
I do almost exclusively read romance novels, like in one
form or another.
Like, I love, and I love, like,I love Dark Romance, I love
romantic.
I love, like I said, I lovelike, um, romantic suspense
novels like action romance,contemporary romance rom-coms.
So, um, yeah, anything, and likeI, I, I feel like not just with
(51:27):
books, but like with TV shows orfilms, if there's not, it
doesn't have to be a romance,but if there's not a romance for
me to root for within thatstory, I find it so hard to
connect with anything.
Um, like it can be, it can beanything I watched.
(51:48):
And there's a really great, um.
BBC program called The Tourist,which has Jamie, I dunno, I
can't, what's his surname?
Jamie Dornan, who was in the 50Shades of Gray films.
Um, and, and it's not, I cannotstress this enough, it is not a
romantic program.
It's quite like gritty and like,like dark and bits of
(52:11):
depressing.
And I was watching it with myhusband and I was like, my
favorite thing about this isit's like an opposites attract.
Like what?
Talking about, I was like, it's,
Jordan (52:26):
Yes.
Laura (52:27):
I love this because, because there's a really small
like romance storyline in it.
And I was like, that's the wholething for me.
That's everything that this isabout.
Jordan (52:36):
Yeah.
Well.
I'll be watching something withmy husband.
We don't watch a lot of TVanymore just because having a
young kid just detracts fromthat.
Like, you just don't have thetime.
But we'll be watching something.
And two people are like, I mean,enemies will be fighting like,
oh, what if they just kissedright now?
Laura (52:51):
Yes.
Jordan (52:51):
fighting.
I was like, Ooh.
Peyton, the tension right now isso high.
What if they just kissed?
He's like, these men are mortalenemies.
I'm like, I don't care.
They should be kissing rightnow.
Laura (53:02):
That's me also.
Do you feel like you can see, Ifeel like I can see half a
second of chemistry between twocharacters and I'll be like,
where's their storyline?
When are they getting together?
Like, when's that happening?
That's all I care about now.
Jordan (53:17):
Yes.
Well, like for Vampire Diaries,because they're such a big
Caroline and Klaus
Laura (53:23):
Yeah.
Jordan (53:24):
that are so angry that I just listened to an interview
that Candace did who playedCaroline and.
She's like, I don't understandeverybody so obsessed with
Klaus.
She goes, that was a throwawayscene that was not meant to be
anything bigger.
And then the moment that firstscene ended, she goes, it was
supposed to show that he has,that Klaus has some humanity.
(53:46):
It was not supposed to be gearedtowards Caroline, but everyone
took it as that.
Laura (53:49):
Mm-hmm.
Jordan (53:50):
And she goes, and so the writers thought it was funny,
all the reactions immediately onTwitter.
So they wrote in a couple morescenes just to be funny.
And I'm like, that's not funny.
And
Laura (54:01):
Yeah, we saw it.
We saw it.
Jordan (54:03):
supposed to be sexy, why sexy?
Why?
Laura (54:08):
Why?
Why are you leaning into this sohard and giving us all the like,
this is what I don't understand.
Stop having them make such goodeye contact if you don't want us
to believe that they're totally.
Jordan (54:20):
the eye contact and just like so far away, but like
leaning towards each other like
Laura (54:25):
Exactly.
Jordan (54:26):
it.
I don't care.
Laura (54:27):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Hundred percent.
Jordan (54:30):
Do you have any recs for us?
What are your, like go-to, whatare your top like Yes, read this
when people are asking or ifthey did ask.
Laura (54:39):
So I would say like the last contemporary romance that I
read was problematic SummerRomance by Ali Haywood.
And I don't think she needs merecommending her to anyone, but
I love her.
If you haven't read her, likejust dive in.
I, on this subject of VampireDiaries, I absolutely loved
Bride, her Vampire Werewolfromance.
(55:02):
Um, and I'm super excited forthe second one of those.
Um, I read the most amazing bookthat published here in the UK
this year called The Last Daysof Summer by Sarah Manning.
And it's being published andit's been bought by a publisher
in the States, so I know it willbe coming out.
I don't know when.
Um, and I would love to put thaton.
(55:26):
Oh, I would love to put this oneveryone's radar because it's so
good and it's, so, it's about,like this is so far up your
alley.
It's about a couple who hateeach other.
Like they have years and yearsand years ago they have like a
very explosive, hot hookup thatends badly and they hate each
(55:47):
other, but their best friendsare best friends.
So they've been like in eachother's orbit for years and
years and years hating eachother and not wanting to be
there.
And at the beginning of thebook, there's this kind of like
devastating news from theirfriends, their two friends.
Um, and they have this big likesummer party planned that's kind
(56:10):
of as a result of this news.
And the two of them have tolike, plan this party together
and they have to like, make itperfect for their friend who's
in this orchestration.
And so the tension, the pining,the heat, it's.
Unbelievable.
Like it's so, so good.
(56:31):
I really think you would love itand I think a lot of romance
readers are gonna really love itand it's, it's really funny and
escapist.
And then it also like rips yourheart out
Jordan (56:43):
Oh, I love that.
That sounds amazing.
Laura (56:47):
Last days of summer.
Sarah Manning.
Get it on your TBR right now.
Jordan (56:52):
Perfect.
Thanks.
Now I have more to add.
I'm almost done with all my arcsfor the season, so, which are so
fun.
I asked for all of them, they'regreat, but then like more things
come up and I'm like, Ooh, Ican't get distracted.
Laura (57:06):
it's, it's wild.
It's a very fun and wild time tobe a romance fan at the moment.
I think it's so, it's soexciting.
Like it's so exciting writing inthis moment.
And it's even more excitingbeing a reader and like a true
fan within this moment becausethe, the, it is so nice to see
(57:27):
romance writers getting the kindof recognition and stuff that
they deserve.
And I feel like this is thefirst time I've been a romance
reader all my life.
And now is the first time that Ican like walk into a bookshop
and there'll be a big romancetable and you know, it feels
like
Jordan (57:44):
Not half a shelf.
Laura (57:46):
Yeah, exactly.
And so it's such a joy, but itis also.
You know, it is also quiteoverwhelming.
Like my TBR is absolutely wild.
And then also like publishing.
When you are a book that'scoming out in July and you are
looking at like the list ofbooks that's coming out in July,
it's, you know, it's prettydaunting.
(58:07):
So, yeah, it's like a lot ofthings.
Jordan (58:12):
We like to say that the TBR is in hell at this point
because it's, it's never ending.
So that's perfect.
And I think you mentionedearlier that you've been
writing, are you working on yournext project
Laura (58:27):
I am working on multiple things at the moment and, and,
and I can't talk about any ofthem.
Jordan (58:35):
well, okay, well, fine.
Laura (58:40):
I'll be able to talk, I'll say that one of the things
that I'm working on is a.
Contemporary romcom and it is inthe same universe as let's make
and under your spell.
And if you, when you read, let'smake a scene.
My sort of hope is that you'llbe like, yeah, I would like to
read a book about thosecharacters.
(59:01):
And then you might, this is themost un subtle hymn ever.
Jordan (59:04):
Hmm.
Laura (59:05):
And so then you might know what I'm working on.
Jordan (59:08):
Ideas.
Love it.
Okay, well I'm excited to keepan eye out for that and also,
but this one, let's make a scenecomes out now.
So
Laura (59:21):
Which is crazy and scared me.
Please.
I'm begging you.
Jordan (59:26):
Yeah, do it.
You won't be sorry.
It's so good.
and if people wanna find you,
Laura (59:32):
um, yes, I would love that.
I've managed to wean myself offalmost all of them, so if you,
it's really only Instagram now,which I love, and I love talking
with people on my Instagramaccount.
So that is at Laura c.
Jordan (59:45):
Perfect.
Thank you so much for, this hasbeen so fun.
I feel like we could stayanother hour and just chat books
and.
Dive into
Laura (59:56):
this is my, this is literally my happy place.
Like just getting to talk.
I, it's so nice talking about mybook.
Like, it's really nice becauseyou've been, you know, you work
on it.
It's just you and your laptopfor such a long time and the joy
of like talking to other peoplewho've read it is intense.
But I love it when I get to comeon something like this.
(01:00:19):
Like, I love what you're doing.
And to get to just talk aboutromance books and why they're so
brilliant and special and totalk about them like in a fun
way, in a serious way, like, youknow, I just think that's so
rewarding.
So, yeah, absolutely.
My pleasure.
Jordan (01:00:37):
Thank you.
And thank you for listening tous ramble about.
Laura (01:00:41):
Mm.
Jordan (01:00:41):
Laura Wood and her books and her latest.
Let's make a scene.
If you're looking for moreromance Recs, be sure to follow
us on Instagram and TikTok andthreads at Romance Recs Pod.
You can find our favorite bookRecs from our episodes, as well
as behind the scenes content,again at Romance Recs Pod.
So give us a follow and we'll beback soon with another episode.
(01:01:03):
Thank you so much.
Laura (01:01:04):
Thank you.
Welcome to Romance Recs.
We're romance obsessed besties,sharing book recommendations
broken down by genres and tropesso you can be sure you are
getting exactly what you wantout of your next read.
I'm Jordan and I am currentlyreading Role for Romance by
Lenora Woods, and I'm listeningto Dear Reader by Tate James.
(00:25):
And I have someone do with metoday.
It's very exciting.
Laura (00:28):
Hi.
Hi.
Sorry.
I didn't know if I was supposedto.
Jordan (00:32):
Yeah, go for it.
Just jump right in.
Yay.
We're excited to have you.
Thank you so much.
Are you reading anythingcurrently or are you just so
busy with everything
Laura (00:48):
Uh, I'm, I'm reading.
Jordan (00:49):
that.
Laura (00:50):
No, I'm, I'm reading loads of stuff.
I'm, I'm writing a lot at themoment, so I find that when I'm
writing I can't stop reading,but I don't like to read like
too close to what I'm writing.
So at the moment I'm reading,loads of Nora Roberts like
romantic suspense because givesme my romance fix, but it feels
(01:11):
like far enough away from theromcom for me to be like to, for
my brain to cope with that.
Jordan (01:18):
Yeah, that's fair enough.
What Nora, Robert, are youreading right now?
Do you
Laura (01:22):
Uh, at the moment I'm rereading Hidden Riches, which
is my number one favorite NoraRoberts novel.
I think it's pretty much theperfect book, so, yeah.
Jordan (01:33):
I love it.
Laura (01:34):
But I, but I actually only, started reading her last
year and it's so funny becauseI, you know, she's written like
hundreds of books.
She's so prolific and I justlike read them all.
I think for about three months.
I just read her solidly and readher whole huge, huge backlist
and I just love her.
I think she's incredible.
Jordan (01:55):
Yeah, I hadn't read any Nora Robert until this last
year, and I got an arc for one,I think it was The Mirror, and
it was like one of her morerecent series, obviously, if I
was reading the Arc.
But it was so good.
I was so intrigued.
I'm like, okay, I get it.
I'm here.
Laura (02:11):
Yeah.
That's her.
She has all these differentthreads and that, that is in
like her kind of moresupernatural.
Jordan (02:18):
Mm-hmm.
Laura (02:19):
She also has like, kind of quite straight like just
romance novels.
The ones that I really love andwhich I think you should
definitely get into are theromantic suspense novels.
She does them, so I don't, shehas this style in her writing
where she's so readable, likeyou just cannot, I dunno what
(02:40):
it's, I do not know what sheputs in her books, but you
cannot put them down.
She'll, she'll do these reallylengthy, one of my favorite
books of hers, there's so manythat I'm, I'm not good with the
titles, but one of my favoritebooks of hers is set in this
like hotel in a sort of, in likein the mountains and it's so
beautiful and the main characteris a bartender and she spends
(03:05):
like pages talking about likebartending and like making
signature cocktails.
And I do not understand whythat's so compelling, but I was
like, I'm so.
I'm so invested in these, inthese seasonal cocktails and I
wanna know.
Jordan (03:20):
I understand.
After reading a couple of hers,like for that series, I have
spent hundreds of pages aboutthis description of this house.
Like, I am invested in thishouse, but I'm not bored.
Like I, it's you're there andyou just kinda get
Laura (03:33):
yeah, yeah, yeah.
She sets you and she's anincredible writer.
I dunno how she does that, but Iwish I did, but it's great.
Jordan (03:41):
whatever she's doing, it's
Laura (03:43):
Exactly.
Jordan (03:45):
Perfect.
All right, well, before we jumpinto all things, let's make a
scene, which is your latest bookthat's coming out next week when
this episode airs.
It's out now.
Um, so, but we usually startwith quotes.
I have a quote from the book.
Let's make a scene by Laura Woodherself.
Um, so this quote was one of myfavorites.
(04:10):
I just, there were so many funscenes in this book.
It was kind of hard to choose,but I went with this one'cause I
think it really sums up so muchabout the two of them, Cynthia
and Jack.
And so this is from Jack's pointof view.
This is from their early years,and it says, Cynthia Hisses, I
(04:32):
won't be satisfied until he isfaced down in the dirt weeping
for his mother.
I don't even wanna think aboutwhy the weird feelings of
arousal intensify at this.
That's going to require theintervention of a qualified
psychoanalyst.
It was to be, it was perfect.
(04:52):
Their history.
I mean, I didn't even includewhat he says next, which is also
hilarious, but
Laura (05:01):
there,
Jordan (05:01):
it's good.
Laura (05:02):
there like sparring and back and forth was the most fun
to write.
And also so funny.
But that specific quote that youjust mentioned is there, there
are so many lines and scenes inthis book that are sort of
either overtly or secretlyreferences to my favorite like
books and film and television,and that line is heavily
(05:26):
inspired by a line that LeslieNope says in Parks and
Recreation.
Jordan (05:30):
Thank you.
That's what I was thinking thewhole time because I'm a huge,
Laura (05:35):
Okay.
Jordan (05:36):
yeah.
Laura (05:38):
was my moment where I was like.
Jordan (05:43):
I love that you did that intentionally because that's
exactly what I imagined in mybrain.
And then poor Ben Wyatt lookedaround like, why am I not more
concerned about this?
But also I'm a little concerned.
Laura (05:56):
But also like he's really, I love that dynamic
between Ben and Leslie and thatthey have that moment where
they, they understand each otherso well and he's kind of, they,
they're at that point whenthey're fighting, but they're
also really into each other andyou, and part of what's fun is
their, like, shared intensityover the, that particular
moment.
So yeah, that was a referencefor that.
(06:18):
So I'm de so delighted that weget to talk about that.
Jordan (06:23):
Oh, I love it.
Okay.
I'll let you do your quote thenbefore I really jump into more
about your book and things Inoticed because now I'm excited.
Laura (06:32):
Okay.
Me too.
Um, well, my create is, isdifferent.
I, I actually, so like I said,at the moment, I'm.
I'm writing a lot, and one ofthe things that I'm writing is a
book about one of my favoriteauthors, a British author, Eva
Sson.
She's not so well known in theStates, which is, you know, a
(06:52):
really a shame because she was afantastic writer.
And, um, she wrote these really,really, really beautiful
historical romance novels.
If you like historical romance,you should for sure check her
out.
Um, but I was, so I'm working onthis book about her, and this
morning I was working on it and,and I was thinking, you know,
(07:12):
that you had said maybe choose aquote and, and I, um, was
writing and, and one of herbooks is called The Morning
Gift.
It's.
Fantastic.
It's about a young woman who hasto leave Austria during the
second World War because she'sJewish and she enters to, to
(07:33):
kind of get her out of Austria.
She enters into this marriage ofconvenience with a, a British
man, and it's so romantic, andthen it's like very emotional
and very funny, and she isdeeply, deeply passionate about
music.
And there, so the quote that I,I highlighted this morning was,
(07:54):
um, I want to live like musicsounds, and I think it's so
beautiful and romantic anddreamy and such a good
indication of the kind of booksthat Eva writes.
So that was my quote that Ipicked.
Jordan (08:09):
yeah.
I like that.
It's very thought provoking.
I'm ha I'm sitting here like, itkind of just keeps resonating as
you think about it.
I like
Laura (08:16):
Yeah, and I think it's partly about like being so
passionate about something andwanting to live a life that's
big and beautiful and that meanssomething.
And I think that's a really neatand clever way of kind of
distilling that big idea intoquite a small sentence.
(08:36):
And she's so talented at doingthat as a writer.
Jordan (08:40):
Thank you so much for sharing that with us.
That sounds really good.
I'm gonna have to look that upnow so let's jump in you new
latest title.
Let's make a scene.
Cynthia and Jack, will you giveus a synopsis for those that
haven't already looked it up orare familiar
Laura (08:58):
Sure.
Yes, of course.
So let's make a scene is abouttwo actors, Jack and Cynthia,
and it tells the story of whenthey first meet, and their young
actors making their, both makingtheir first film together, which
is a period romance.
And, um, they do not get on atall.
(09:20):
They hate each other.
Things go very badly.
But the chemistry between themis so good on screen that the
studio says, suggests that whenthey're promoting the film, it
would be great if they couldpretend to be in a relationship.
Together.
13 years later, the, they, the,you know, things ended badly
between them.
They vowed they'd never see eachother again.
(09:42):
And 13 years later, they getasked to make the sequel to this
film.
And at the same time, the studiowould like them to revive their
fake relationship.
But obviously 13 years is a longtime.
Things have changed.
The way we access celebritieshas changed a lot.
Um, and so the two of them haveto come back together, both
(10:03):
expecting to meet the personthat they knew 13 years ago.
And I think they're both quitesurprised by what they actually
find.
And so we move between 13 yearsago and the present day, and we
see them kind of making both ofthese films and what that.
Jordan (10:18):
Yeah.
And it's so fun.
so fun.
I, it comes across when you readit, it really does.
Every chapter.
I'm just like, this would've,this is so fun.
And kind of what you mentionedearlier about that scene, how it
was inspired by the Leslie No,which parks AndRecs fan.
(10:41):
Personally, it's my favorite,but like you can see different
threads of big moments from.
Pop culture and other shows andmovies throughout without it
feeling like you've read thisstory before.
I, that's what is so fun.
Laura (11:00):
Yeah.
Well, I really felt like it waskind of, I think maybe the fact
that it was about the making afilm just felt like it really
unlocked that.
Potential for me where I couldbe quite self-referential.
And it could be really, youknow, like it could be really
obvious that there are bigmoments that get referenced.
Like the lift in dirty dancing,there's like that scene.
(11:24):
And there are loads of like,there are specific references to
like loads of Nora Ephron films.
And then there's scenes that Iwas like, this is like my
version of the press conferencescene in Notting Hill and like
all these wrong calls that I waslike, oh, it would be so fun to
do a kind of little nod to thatand to be able to put that in.
(11:44):
So it was really fun for mebecause as I was writing, I was
just referencing, it's sort oflike a compilation of all my
favorite things.
And so I feel like you get thejoy out of that.
And I feel like for a lot ofpeople who love reading romance
and reading rom-coms, it's this,it, we share the love of the
(12:04):
same kind of culturaltouchstones, you know?
So
Jordan (12:07):
Yes.
Laura (12:08):
it's fun to see those pop up.
Jordan (12:10):
Yeah, it was, and that's, like I said, it was so
fun and it still felt genuineand natural when reading it.
It didn't feel like, oh, youtried to put this instance in
there.
Like, I know the big thing thatI read that you posted was that
it kind of all centered aroundthat kiss from like the notebook
(12:32):
and their scene.
Yeah.
So is that what kind of sparkedeverything was you just, that
was so memorable and monumentalin.
Laura (12:45):
Yeah, so, so the way this book actually came about was
that, I had written my adultdebut, um, under Your Spell,
which came out last year.
And we were taking that out topublishers and we were kind of
selling it as part of a two bookdeal.
And so my agent Louise, who'sreally good friend of mine, said
(13:07):
to me, do you like, do you haveany thoughts about what you
might like a, a second book tolook like?
And I literally said to her.
Well,, I'm thinking quite a lotabout the 2005 MTV movie awards
for best kids.
I mean, like Outta nowhere.
And then the really fun thingwas, was like she was just
(13:30):
immediately like, oh my God, metoo.
All the shy.
And, and so we started havingthis conversation where we were
just bouncing backwards andforwards off each other.
Like so giddy.
This kind of like, and then whenhe's wearing the D four T-shirt
and then when she like adjustsher top and then when he's
chewing the chewing Girl andthen when, and you know, like
play by play without it in frontof us.
(13:52):
And then when it comes toLindsay Lohan and she looks so
happy.
And so we, so we were both justso kind of thrilled by this and
I felt like, yeah, I think thisis such a nice moment and such a
nice place to, to think aboutstarting a book.
And, and so what I also lovedabout that, for people who don't
know, is.
(14:12):
In 2005, Rachel McAdams and RyanGosling won the MTV movie awards
for like a prize for Best Kiss,and they a notebook and they
reenacted the, the kiss thatthey do in the notebook on
stage.
And it's incredible.
And if you haven't watched it,or even if you have, you should
go and watch it right
Jordan (14:30):
Yeah.
Relive that.
Laura (14:32):
Yeah, really that moment, the, the like, the adrenaline
rush is incredible.
Um, but, but I think at thetime, one of the things that was
really nice about it was.
Um, that they were a couple inreal life, and that was how
everyone found out that theywere a couple in real life.
And, um, it was 2005, so wedidn't have like the same in
(14:56):
level of access to celebritiesthat we have now.
So it was, we were so giddy overit.
Um, but also what I enjoyedabout the whole thing was the
fact that the backstory to thatmoment was that the two of them
apparently did not get on whenthey were film making the film.
(15:16):
Um, they really fought and thenlater they had this
relationship.
And I was thinking about this,like, this is such a good
romance novel, right?
Jordan (15:26):
Yeah.
Laura (15:27):
trope, you know, when people are talking about, you
know, whether tropes arerealistic.
It's like, look at this, thisstory is made or romance.
Um, and so that was where itstarted was this idea.
I was thinking it would be sofun to have like young actors
who hated each other and had tomake this film and they had this
(15:48):
incredible chemistry and thenwhat would happen, you know, if
they came back together olderand wiser and different.
And so yeah.
So that was where the novelstarted.
And it even has in, let's make ascene.
One of my absolute favoriteparts of it is I put the MTV
Movie Awards Best Kiss in it.
(16:08):
They win
Jordan (16:09):
so good.
Laura (16:10):
It's so good.
It like, I was.
Absolutely flying.
When I wrote it, I just
Jordan (16:16):
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry I'm laughing becauseI'm thinking of the scene, so
Laura (16:20):
yeah, yeah,
Jordan (16:21):
me over here.
Laura (16:22):
that's a really good Steve Carrell coming in.
Jordan (16:25):
Not now.
Laura (16:27):
Steve, if I had, if I had chosen a quote from my own book
at the beginning of the episode,that's what I would've chosen,
not now, Steve Carre, possiblythe most unhinged line I've ever
written, but one of my all timefavorite, so I'm so glad.
Jordan (16:46):
I just picture him like trying to find the exit.
Like
Laura (16:51):
Yeah.
Jordan (16:52):
if you dunno what we're talking about, please go read
the book because it is iconic.
Laura (16:57):
Read the, and then you'll understand why.
That's my favorite line.
Jordan (17:04):
I'm sorry.
Take a moment for that scene.
Laura (17:07):
Yeah.
Jordan (17:07):
It was so good.
Oh, thank you for that.
That was amazing.
And the inspiration I think wasperfect because the inspiration
already has all this tension,right?
And, and I can FI can feel thetension.
I can feel the reluctanthostility.
The reluctant attractionthroughout the entire book.
(17:30):
And I love jumping timelines andtheir personal journey and
seeing it change from chaptersto chapters, right.
As you read through the book.
'cause in one chapter you'llread them and they're young and
immature and they're blindlyconfident in themselves.
And in the next, you see them 13years later when they're
(17:51):
established adults and eitherwhere they've grown to or where
they are stuck.
And it was so fun to read.
'cause at the core, they didfeel like the same characters.
Right.
But you could see and feel thedifference and the growth that
they had done
Laura (18:13):
That's so nice.
That's so nice because that,that's really what I wanted.
And I think 13 years is a longtime, but specifically that 13
years between, at the beginningof the book, so in the 13 years
earlier timeline, Cynthia is 20and Jack is 24, I think 25 and
so and so, and then 13 yearslater, obviously they're in
(18:35):
their thirties.
And um, it felt to me like thatwas so interesting because one
of the traits that I, as a hugeromance reader have, um, don't
always love is miscommunication.
And I felt like in this book, itwas so fun to be able to explore
(18:56):
that in as much as, because thebook is dual timeline and
because the book is dualperspective, you really, really,
really get to know thecharacters very well, which is
something that I hadn't reallythought about when I started
writing it.
But, but when I was writing it,I became hyper aware of that.
I felt like by the end of it, Iwas like, I know these two
(19:17):
characters better than anycharacter I've ever written
because I've been with them for13 years and from their early
twenties to their late thirties,like, it, it felt like, felt
such a huge journey to go onwith them.
And so you see that in theearlier timeline.
This isn't really a spoiler oranything, but in the earlier
(19:37):
timeline.
You as a reader can see bothsides of what's happening, like
what he sees and what she sees.
And you can see why, like yousaid, because they're, they're
this weird mix of like superconfident and incredibly,
incredibly not confident andscared and insecure as, as so
(20:04):
many of us are at that age.
And so there is kind ofmiscommunication between them in
that they don't have the kind oftools to like open up to each
other and they misunderstandeach other.
And then what I really likedabout that was being able to
deal with that 13 years later.
So you are dealing with thefallout from that, but you are
(20:24):
also dealing with thencharacters who've.
Matured and done the work andlearned things about themselves.
And so they, I think there aremoments where they explicitly
have conversations wherethey'll, they'll say, I don't
want there to bemisunderstanding and
miscommunication between us.
Like, I want you to understandhow I'm feeling in this moment.
(20:46):
And it felt every time thathappened, it felt huge to me
because as a reader, you, youcan see that growth on the page.
Like, you know, that's not howthey would've handled it in the
past.
And it's so rewarding to seethem handle it differently in
the present.
So I really loved being able tospend that much time with them.
Jordan (21:05):
Yeah.
It showed it was.
Laura (21:07):
It's nice.
Jordan (21:08):
you do have a really big range in your book genre.
So I was going back and lookingat everything you've written
'cause you have things likeage-wise all across.
Can you tell me a little bitabout like your journey as an
author?
Not just this book, but justover your career?
Laura (21:24):
Yes, I do.
Um, so I, I actually started offwriting middle grade.
Um, I wrote middle grade fictionfirst and fairly quickly after I
was writing middle grade.
I, so, so this is in the uk I'vebeen working, my first book came
out actually 10 years ago thisyear.
So That's exciting.
(21:46):
Yeah, it's really nice.
I mean, I can't really believeit, but it's true.
So I started writing middlegrade, um, and my publisher
Scholastic was so incredible andthey, um, and I kind of went to
them fairly early on and said,you know, I have this idea for a
young adult novel.
Um, and I was really like, Imean, I don't know if you even
(22:08):
wanna hear about, I don't, Idon't know.
Um, it was so sweet andsupportive, and especially with
hindsight, like I,'cause Ididn't know anything about how
publishing worked or.
You know, like, I mean I had myagent with me, luckily, who
obviously knew how everythingworked, but for me, I went into
it quite naive.
And the books, the young adultbooks that I pitched to them are
(22:29):
historical romance, which isactually quite unusual, I think,
in the YA space in terms of um,like straight historical, by
which I don't mean heterosexual,but like non-fan, so they're
just in the real worldhistorical romance.
And so it was so nice that they,you know, like they picked that
(22:55):
up and so I started publishingya as well.
Ya romance is kind of up at thetop end of ya.
So the characters in it areusually like 18, 19.
Um, and I have from that areally lovely.
Kind of crossover audience.
So what if I do events for my YAbooks?
(23:15):
They'll usually be like ahandful of teenagers.
And then actually most of theaudience will be, you know, my
age or older.
And what's really lovely aboutthose books is that often like
multiple generations read themtogether.
So like, yeah, I, and I, and it,it happens so regularly now at
(23:37):
signings that I, I feel like,you know, I know that it happens
a lot, which is so nice thatthere'll be a mother and a
daughter or a grandmother anddaughter or, and they'll say, we
read your books together andit's so sweet.
It's so lovely to be that pointof connection with people.
So I was writing young adultfiction and I ha kind of had an
(24:00):
adult audience and my agentLouise had been saying to me for
ages, I think you have a.
Adult romcom in you.
And I was like, yeah, I, Iagree.
But you know, I'm busy.
I've got a lot of writing.
Writing.
And so when I wrote Under YourSpell, which is my adult debut,
(24:23):
it was just the most fun, weirdjourney because what happened
was I had the idea for it, Iwrote the first page of it in my
notes app in the middle of thenight on my phone because I was
like, oh my God, this would besuch a fun book.
And I know, and I have it.
(24:45):
And it's so funny because it'sword for word, the first page of
the finished novel.
And
Jordan (24:49):
impressive.
That doesn't happen often.
Laura (24:52):
yeah, my sleepy brain was doing good.
Um, yeah.
And more sleeping obviously.
And so I wrote, I wrote, Iliterally sat down and just for
fun, I wrote the first chapterof it and I sent it to Libby,
ease my agent.
And I said, look, I know you'vebeen saying this for ages, but I
(25:15):
just wrote this chapter, what doyou think?
And she emailed reckon, shesaid, I love it so much, write
more.
And so every day I was likewriting a chapter and then
emailing it to her, like a game,like just for this audience of
one person to make her laugh.
And she would then send me allthese notes back saying, yeah, I
(25:36):
love it so much.
And, and after like a couple ofweeks, we were both like, I
think this might be a book.
I think this is a book.
I think I'm making a book.
Jordan (25:45):
I think you should commit to this.
Laura (25:47):
Yeah.
So funny because then, so then Ijust wrote the first draft.
It came out.
Like incredibly smoothly.
And you know, I've been inpublishing at this point for a
long time.
I know how slowly everythingmoves, but with under your
spell, everything happenedinsanely first.
Like I finished her first draft.
(26:08):
She took it out on submission topublishers in the uk and like a
week later it was in like anauction.
It was in an auction in theStates.
It was like there just a lot ofstuff happening really fast.
So it was really fun and it, Ithink it was really nice that at
that point I had all thesesmall, I had all these books
(26:30):
behind me and I think it's niceto feel like that can happen for
an author that you can, you cankind of build.
Quietly and slowly as a writerrather than having one shot, a
big splashy debut, you know,which I think I was so fortunate
(26:51):
that I had the journey that Ihad.
'cause I think that happens alot where, you know, the, the
writers who get these big debutsand then if the book doesn't do
as well as people hope, thenit's like game over.
And I felt like it was so niceto go into this whole thing
with, with a much broaderperspective of how publishing
(27:12):
worked and a lot more solid workbehind me and a sense of kind of
confidence I suppose thatwouldn't have been there
otherwise in my writing and mywork as a writer.
So, yeah, so, and it just meantI was so able to appreciate,
like, I knew it was special, doyou know what I mean?
(27:33):
It wasn't.
Jordan (27:34):
Yes, definitely.
Laura (27:36):
I been like, oh, so this is how it works.
But I knew it was special.
Jordan (27:41):
yeah, and that's kinda why I was like, I gotta look
this up.
I'm like, there's no way.
This is only her second book.
I was like, I knew I had heardof Under Your Spell, and I was
like, okay.
After I read this, like since Iloved it, I was like, I could go
back and read that one.
I haven't had a chance yet, but.
I was like, there's gotta bemore.
I was like, there's gotta be.
I'm sure I will.
I like this.
This is too, polished, welldone.
(28:04):
Like just overall.
It doesn't feel like a secondbook from an author, so I was
like, I gotta figure this out.
I gotta go.
I gotta do more research.
I gotta talk to her.
So,
Laura (28:13):
so nice.
But I would say actually that's,that's a, that, that's really
kind of you and it, and I feellike this whole conversation is
so good for my ego.
But, but also, do you know, whenI started writing books, I think
there was a huge part of me thatfelt like when you are a writer,
(28:35):
you have a sort of finite amountof talent and like you have,
that's what you are bringing.
And it didn't, this sounds sofoolish now, but it didn't occur
to me that I would get better.
Um, because I've spent, I'vespent 10 years being edited by
(28:55):
incredible editors and workingwith my publishers.
And so I've learned how to put abook together.
Better.
And
Jordan (29:06):
Yeah.
Laura (29:06):
I learn and when I write now, my drafts come out so much
cleaner.
Like I will do one less draftthan I used to do full.
I don't usually have to do touchwood.
I don't usually have to do likea big structural edit, because
when I'm writing my first draft,I feel like I have my agent's
(29:28):
voice in my head and my editor'svoice in my head, and I know
that they'll say, you know, Hmm.
You haven't really explainedenough there or Hmm.
That like, we need to pause inthis moment a bit longer, or,
Hmm.
You need to go back and checkthe age of that person because
you said that this year, thisearlier on.
(29:50):
And so I'm kind of at a pointnow where I've written so many
books and I've, and I've beenlucky to work with so many
amazing people that I'm kind ofself-editing as I'm going.
So it's not, I don't know what Ithink anymore about how much
talent someone has, but like thetech side of it, of putting a
(30:11):
book together.
Of course you can improve andget better at that.
Of course you can.
Jordan (30:16):
Well, and we've talked about that before on our
podcast, because we follow, wetry to follow a lot of indie
authors and so we have somethat, you know, some of us have
been following since like theirfirst or second book.
And we talk about it like it'snot that those, those books
aren't bad, their first ones.
We love them.
We fell in love with the author.
We fell in love with thestories, right.
But there is just, I don't knowif it's a maturity in writing
(30:39):
and kind of like you said, morepolished and you kind of know
where you're gonna edit beforeyou have to go through and edit.
So you're just doing it thefirst time through, which means
edits make it flow even better.
And so it's just so fun to watchcareers like that too, from
authors.
And so that's why when I readit, I was like, uh, no.
(31:02):
Gotta go see, like what got youto this point and where, so this
such a fun journey.
To hear
Laura (31:08):
Yeah, and I think that's really, I think that's really
insightful observation,particularly about indie
writers, like you say, becausein some ways, because they're
outside this model of.
Traditional publishing whereit's like you are like one and
done kind of thing.
They have the space to likesimilar to me in a way.
(31:32):
Like they have the space overyears to, to figure out the best
way for them.
'cause that's the other thing isthere's no single way to write a
book.
So you have to also figure out,it took me several books to work
out for me.
What was the best and easiestway for me to put a book
together.
Jordan (31:53):
And what is that?
Is it, do you, you said youwould do it chapter by chapter,
so does that mean you justfollow it chronologically, like
plotter pants?
It sounds like you kind of likeplot as you, do you plot as you
go, or do you already have it
Laura (32:04):
no.
So in most areas of my life I'mvery messy and disorganized.
But when I'm writing a book, Ihave a very rigid structure and
plan and that is that I do a, avery.
Detailed outline before I sitdown to write anything.
So that can be somewhere betweenfive and 10,000 words.
(32:27):
And then I will break thatoutline down chapter by chapter.
And then, I will, so when I, forme, everything that I do is
about avoiding having a blankpage in front of me.
So when I sit down to write achapter, I will have next to the
document, like, I will have,this is what's happening in this
chapter.
This is what you need to write.
(32:49):
So I always have it reallyplanned out.
Like within that plan, obviouslythere's loads of stuff that
happens in the moment and a lotof dialogue, almost all of the
dialogue happens in the momentas I'm writing.
Like it'll be like, oh, I need,I know they need to have a
conversation here, and theoutcome of the conversation
needs to be this.
And so then it's just likeputting them in a room together
(33:10):
and writing the dialogue.
Um, so that's the way that worksfor me.
And then with, let's make ascene.
It was obviously liketechnically a huge challenge for
me because I write very, like Iwrite chronologically, I write
from the first line to the endline.
If I know there's a scene thatI'm excited about, I don't get
(33:33):
to write it until I'm up to thatpoint in the book.
Um, yeah, well, and I'm so rigidabout that.
And then with this book, it wasso complicated because obviously
there's the two timelines and itmoves around.
And then, um, so I went into itthinking I'm gonna write it
(33:54):
chronologically, like I'm gonnawrite all of the past and then
all of the present, and then I'mgonna mix it up.
And what ended up happening wasnot that.
I, I end, I did it in biggerchunks than the final book ended
up, but I did move around a bit.
Like I would do a big chunk ofthe past, and then I would think
(34:17):
this is very obviously a placewhere it's gonna break.
And so I would start writingsome of the present, and then I
would go back.
And then when we were editing,it was really fun because we
didn't change any of thestructure.
We just like, like literallypicked up chapters of me.
Jordan (34:34):
oh, that's so neat.
Laura (34:36):
Yeah.
So it was really, and then, andthen it was just about making
sure that everything, like readsmoothly with it like that, so,
so that was, yeah.
So technically it was reallychallenging and partly because I
would say with all of my books,they're very character driven
books.
Um, it's not like action,action, action.
(34:57):
They're really driven bycharacter development.
And I'm really interested inwhat's happening in their lives
and in their brains.
And so that was complicated inthis because usually I would
have a clear arc for acharacter.
Like, this is where they start,this is where they end up.
And for these characters,'causethey're moving backwards and
forwards.
(35:18):
And there's like a 13 year gapin the middle.
It was like the arcs were allover.
It wasn't an arc, it was like asound wave.
And, and so like for Jack,actually quite a lot of his big
emotional arc happens off page.
Like you meet him 13 yearsearlier and he's the one that,
(35:40):
when you meet him 13 yearslater, he's like, really done
the work.
He's been to therapy.
He's like, a lot of stuff that'shappened with his family.
Jordan (35:48):
He's found blood lost.
Mm-hmm.
Laura (35:52):
he's like, he's like, which is one of my other
favorite things, but he, soyeah.
So he's starring in this, hecomes from this line of.
Really, really famous and like,well-regarded, serious British
actors.
And the pressure on him in theearlier timeline is partly, is
(36:12):
so intense that you understandlike why he occasionally behaves
terribly.
Um, and then when we meet himagain 13 years later, he's like,
he's made peace with that.
He's starring in this, um,teenage vampire Netflix show
that I invented called BloodLust.
Jordan (36:30):
As a Vampire Diaries, fa like
Laura (36:32):
I know.
Jordan (36:33):
When I was young, watching'em live, come out every
week, this is amazing.
Laura (36:37):
Yes.
So for me as well, like Iabsolutely, yes, I absolutely
love a vampire show.
I'm actually really like,obsessed with the idea of blood
lust.
I'm like, it would be reallynice if people adapted to their
books into films or whatever,but can someone.
Jordan (36:53):
Yes.
It's kind of it from thedescription, it kind of sounded
like a mesh of like VampireDiaries, supernatural and Buffy.
It almost felt like
Laura (37:06):
I'm like a bit of charmed, like I
Jordan (37:08):
Yes.
Charmed.
Yes.
That's what I was forgetting.
I'm like, I know there's anolder one that I'm thinking of
that's loved it all.
Laura (37:15):
sure.
And so he's, so, he's like inthis TV show that his parents
really disapprove of, but he'slike having the time of his life
and he's so happy and welladjusted and so, so a lot of
what's brought him to that placehas happened, you know, off the
page in the gap where we are notwith these characters.
(37:35):
And so that was really fun aswell because it felt like, what
does that look like and whatdoes it look like through
Cynthia's eyes that he's changedand that he's done this work?
And it sort of helps her toreflect on the changes that have
happened in her life and whethershe's kind of looked some things
in the eye in the way that hehas and.
(37:56):
So it felt like a really nice,compelling way of having these
two characters really challengeeach other in both timelines.
Um, so yeah,
Jordan (38:06):
it was a nice mirror between timelines, um, and I
think the way you organized itwent really well.
'cause there are smaller timejumps, like on either end, so in
the beginning and the end, likeright, like through shooting,
through, waiting until thepremiere and all, all this
stuff.
So there were.
Many time jumps within thosetoo, so I can imagine that would
(38:27):
get complicated.
And it went really well.
I thought it read very smoothly,so
Laura (38:32):
That's nice.
I know, I know.
A, I know a dual timeline can bea really divisive thing for
readers, and I totally get that.
Like sometimes it's for me andso Yeah, I do too.
I think it's hard becauseinevitably, like you'll prefer
one timeline to the other.
Um, I actually felt like thatabout this book as well.
(38:54):
Like I, I, I preferred thewriting the present to the past,
but I feel in some ways that,and I think maybe that will be
the reading experience as well,but, the reason that the present
is so satisfying is because thepast chapters are there.
Like, that's what makes it workbecause the, the conflict and
(39:16):
all the exposition is.
In the past timeline, soeveryone's just like, for the
most part, everyone's justhaving a nice time in the
present, and
Jordan (39:27):
I know at first I was like, oh, get back to the
present.
But then by like one third ofthe way through, I was like, no,
I wanna hear what's happening inthe past.
How far did they take this?
I need to know.
Laura (39:41):
Yeah, that's what I wanted and that's how I felt
writing it as well.
And like I said, I had thatsensation of when I got to the
end of writing it, where I justfelt like, wow.
I.
I just, there's something reallyepic about this love story
that's lasted 13 years and thathas it, that allows for 13 years
(40:04):
of like pining and you know,like it really felt like oh,
this is, so, this gives it adepth for me that I really
enjoy.
And I just felt like how, what atreat it was to get to know them
so well.
Jordan (40:19):
Yeah.
And it came across, it was sofun.
Okay, so we'll break this up alittle bit and we'll take a
break from all the big questionsand we're just gonna play a
little game of this or that.
So it's just rapid fire.
I'll ask you this or that, andyou just gimme your gut
instinct, without thinking aboutit too much.
Laura (40:38):
I'm with you.
Not thinking I'm good at that.
Jordan (40:41):
Only slight judgment on the answers.
Nothing serious, but,
Laura (40:46):
Okay, now I'm thinking
Jordan (40:49):
all right.
Physical book or ebook?
Laura (40:53):
ebook these days.
Jordan (40:55):
Mm-hmm.
Sweet.
Or salty snacks while reading.
Laura (40:58):
Salty
Jordan (40:59):
Mm-hmm.
Good job.
Books that make you cry or booksthat make you laugh.
Laura (41:06):
Laugh, definitely
Jordan (41:08):
Okay.
This is a trope question.
One horse or one bed.
Laura (41:14):
one bed.
Jordan (41:15):
Mm-hmm.
Small town or billionaireromance.
Laura (41:19):
town.
Small town all the way.
Or preferably a billionaire in asmall town.
Jordan (41:24):
Yeah, that would be, just give it all to me, please.
Love it.
Standalone or series.
Laura (41:33):
well standalone, but I do love.
Like, so what, the same thingthat I've done with, let's make
a scene where they're, you canread it as a standalone, but
they're connected where you getthe cameos of the previous
Jordan (41:46):
Yeah.
Laura (41:47):
Yeah, that's my absolute favorite.
Jordan (41:49):
Okay.
Uh, fake dating or marriage ofconvenience.
Laura (41:54):
Oh, that's two of my favorites.
Um, I'm gonna say marriage ofconvenience, just'cause then you
get the, my wife, which
Jordan (42:05):
It's always ni never gets old.
Laura (42:08):
never, never, never gets old.
Just like
Jordan (42:13):
Okay.
Character driven or plot driven.
Laura (42:16):
character driven.
Jordan (42:17):
Mm-hmm.
And who are your top three bookboyfriends or swoon worthy
characters.
It can be your own if you'reobsessed with your own.
There's no judgment on that one.
Laura (42:30):
I'm obsessed with my own.
Okay.
Well, so I'm gonna go like verybasic and say Mr.
Darcy, because I think like he'sjust the model for a good book
boyfriend.
Like he does the work, he doesthe work on himself, he's
respectful.
He comes back and he, uh, whenhe, when he's like earned her,
(42:51):
he comes back.
He's been pining it's ideal.
Really, I think.
Absolutely wild that Jane Austenwas out there modeling healthy
relationships for us.
I'm gonna say definitely, um,I'm going to say of mine, I'm
gonna say Theo, from under yourspell, who you have to look
(43:13):
forward to, he does make a cameoin, let's make a scene, and he.
Jordan (43:20):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
I gotta know
Laura (43:22):
so, so you'll enjoy that and it's very fun to read about
the two of them together.
And then, I dunno who my thirdone would be.
I just read, um, problematicSummer Romance by Ali Hazelwood,
who is one of my favoriteromance writers.
And the only problem is, I can'tremember his, I think his, I'm
(43:44):
pretty sure his name is Connor.
And he was a
Jordan (43:46):
together after a while,
Laura (43:48):
I just,
Jordan (43:48):
they made me feel, but their name not so much.
Laura (43:52):
exactly.
Exactly.
And I think like when you are aromance reader and.
Generally a lot of romancereaders, like, uh, like me,
where we are, we are consumingjust an enormous amount of, of,
um, storytelling all the time.
But I love Ali Hazelwood.
I, and like I could not wait, I,I was trying to make myself re
wait to read that book.
(44:13):
Um, and I, I about 12 hours withit on my Kindle and I like, no,
I've gotta read it.
I've gotta read it.
I, it, it was so good.
Jordan (44:23):
I love
Laura (44:23):
Who are,
Jordan (44:23):
Thank you.
Oh my gosh.
No one's ever asked me.
I've always asked me.
It's okay.
Okay.
The microphone is turned.
Okay.
I would have to say
Laura (44:36):
yeah, so fun now.
Jordan (44:38):
Dar Darius Acru from Zodiac Academy by Caroline
Peckham and Suzanne Valenti.
Laura (44:46):
Oh my God.
You took it like quite dark,straight away.
Jordan (44:49):
Oh, I do love Dark Romance.
I'm gonna be, I am.
I am.
Laura (44:56):
Okay.
Now I know where we coming from.
That's good.
Jordan (44:58):
I do cont when I read Contemporary, it's more of like
a palette cleanser.
Like, oh, I'm gonna read thisfun one for a minute before I go
back to the dark side.
Laura (45:09):
Okay.
Okay.
I understand
Jordan (45:12):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh oh.
Oh my God.
Who else?
I know I have so many, but thenit's like,
Laura (45:21):
this is what happens.
Jordan (45:23):
I know I love Samkiel from, Amber v Nicole's, of God's
a Monsters series.
Laura (45:30):
Oh, I haven't read that yet.
Jordan (45:31):
It's really good.
It's not a finished series.
She has three out now.
Um, but it's, the Book of Israelis the first one
Laura (45:41):
Yeah, that's why I haven't, um, because I have a
real, I mean, I, I have a realproblem with waiting.
Like I'm so impatient that Iwould rather wait years until
they're all out and then I canbinge more.
So I, like, I haven't readFourth Wing yet.
Fourth Wing, I mean, because,because I was like, I can't read
(46:06):
it when there's gonna be like ayear plus between books.
It's too stressful.
Jordan (46:10):
That's fair.
That's fair.
I mean it ki I feel like italways changes, but right now I
just read the Arc for Accompliceto the Villain by Hannah Nicole
Mayer,
Laura (46:20):
Yes.
Jordan (46:22):
I'm obsessed with the villain, with Tristan.
I vere.
I just love him so much.
Laura (46:29):
Yeah, I
Jordan (46:30):
we actually got a chance to talk to her this last week
and do an interview with herabout it.
And I don't know if you've read.
Laura (46:35):
Yeah.
So I've read the first two.
Jordan (46:37):
Yeah.
This third one is actually myfavorite so far,
Laura (46:41):
Yay.
Okay.
Jordan (46:42):
I can't wait for you to read it because I fall.
I really fell in love withTristan.
Like I loved the story, but Ifell in love with the villain in
book three, and so I think he isnow made my top list, so.
Laura (46:55):
That's good.
Yeah, no, that makes me reallyhappy.
She's one of the like rareexceptions to my, I won't read
them till they're all out
Jordan (47:02):
Okay.
I was, that's why I was like,maybe we probably haven't read
it since it's not
Laura (47:05):
no, no.
Because I read the first one asan arc and I was like, because I
was like, oh my God, I can'twait.
And I think probably, I didn'trealize it was going to be a
series, and then I was like, ohno, while I'm in now, I guess so
much.
Um, but yeah, I love thatcharacter.
I love the villain.
So, and it's like so clever theway that she writes him.
(47:26):
And I like also that he doesn'tlike totally lose his like edge.
Like he keeps the villainousside of things go alive.
Like I don't want the villain tojust turn into like completely
the good guy.
That's not for me.
This is my dark side coming out.
Jordan (47:43):
no.
I, but, and the humor is sogood.
So you talk about like the, yourrom-com that you just wrote and
it's so funny but you don't seevery often, humor in fantasy.
I feel like you don't get that,and I think that's what made
that one so fresh.
So yeah, that's what makes him,he's like unapologetic.
(48:03):
He's polite, butunapologetically dark at the
same time.
But you don't feel like you'rereading anything dark.
Laura (48:10):
Yeah.
I also really enjoy that kind oftrope of someone who, and as I
know now you are a dark romancegirl.
I know this is gonna resonatewith you.
When it's like they're like goodto the people that they love,
but they would also, for thepeople that they love, they
would like burn the whole worlddown.
(48:31):
That's ideal for.
Jordan (48:33):
Yep, yep.
Uh, so speaking of, uh, of God'sa monster series, the Book of
Riel, the first book, Samkielthat's kind of how he is.
'cause he's technically the goodguy, but he will burn like the
universe for her.
Like it's, So, yep.
(48:54):
I love it.
Laura (48:56):
Because I'm like such a villain lover.
That's the trouble.
Like sometimes I'll be like, Ican't invest in this story if
you want me to believe thatshe's gonna choose the hero over
the villain.
It goes like back to my VampireDiaries days where I was like,
why would anyone choose Stefanover Damien?
It doesn't make sense to me.
Like I can't understand how thisis even a conversation that
(49:18):
we're having
Jordan (49:20):
Yes.
Yes.
If I can, in the end root forKlaus, though he is the most
horrible person ever,
Laura (49:30):
Hundred percent
Jordan (49:31):
like he was just hurt by his mother and his family.
Can someone just help him?
Please?
Laura (49:39):
I know we're, we're such red flags, but yeah.
There we go.
Jordan (49:43):
I admittedly, I do read a lot of Bully Romance, so when
Jack and Cynthia were like, youknow, just.
Laura (49:51):
Hated.
Jordan (49:52):
Hated.
I was like, yeah, yeah.
Hate each other.
Laura (49:57):
Yeah, because it's, it's hot as well.
Like I felt it was really fun.
So I was writing the book.
Ago ago.
And I was writing, it was sofunny because there is a sex
scene in like the, the firsttimeline, right?
And in, I wrote that scene onlike the hottest day of the year
(50:19):
and I was like, yes, this is howit feels like.
It felt so fun.
I always think those books areso much fun where, where you are
just like building the tensionto, to such an extent that it's
like really you are just like,ah, like you're as a reader, you
together so badly.
And they're like, the heatbetween them is so intense.
(50:40):
So yeah.
Jordan (50:41):
Yeah, it was great.
10 outta 10.
Loved it.
Laura (50:48):
I.
Jordan (50:50):
Yeah.
Perfect.
Um, so obviously you read a lotof romance, but what genre do
you like of books do you usuallyread?
Like when you're reading what'sthe majority?
Laura (51:03):
I do almost exclusively read romance novels, like in one
form or another.
Like, I love, and I love, like,I love Dark Romance, I love
romantic.
I love, like I said, I lovelike, um, romantic suspense
novels like action romance,contemporary romance rom-coms.
So, um, yeah, anything, and likeI, I, I feel like not just with
(51:27):
books, but like with TV shows orfilms, if there's not, it
doesn't have to be a romance,but if there's not a romance for
me to root for within thatstory, I find it so hard to
connect with anything.
Um, like it can be, it can beanything I watched.
(51:48):
And there's a really great, um.
BBC program called The Tourist,which has Jamie, I dunno, I
can't, what's his surname?
Jamie Dornan, who was in the 50Shades of Gray films.
Um, and, and it's not, I cannotstress this enough, it is not a
romantic program.
It's quite like gritty and like,like dark and bits of
(52:11):
depressing.
And I was watching it with myhusband and I was like, my
favorite thing about this isit's like an opposites attract.
Like what?
Talking about, I was like, it's,
Jordan (52:26):
Yes.
Laura (52:27):
I love this because, because there's a really small
like romance storyline in it.
And I was like, that's the wholething for me.
That's everything that this isabout.
Jordan (52:36):
Yeah.
Well.
I'll be watching something withmy husband.
We don't watch a lot of TVanymore just because having a
young kid just detracts fromthat.
Like, you just don't have thetime.
But we'll be watching something.
And two people are like, I mean,enemies will be fighting like,
oh, what if they just kissedright now?
Laura (52:51):
Yes.
Jordan (52:51):
fighting.
I was like, Ooh.
Peyton, the tension right now isso high.
What if they just kissed?
He's like, these men are mortalenemies.
I'm like, I don't care.
They should be kissing rightnow.
Laura (53:02):
That's me also.
Do you feel like you can see, Ifeel like I can see half a
second of chemistry between twocharacters and I'll be like,
where's their storyline?
When are they getting together?
Like, when's that happening?
That's all I care about now.
Jordan (53:17):
Yes.
Well, like for Vampire Diaries,because they're such a big
Caroline and Klaus
Laura (53:23):
Yeah.
Jordan (53:24):
that are so angry that I just listened to an interview
that Candace did who playedCaroline and.
She's like, I don't understandeverybody so obsessed with
Klaus.
She goes, that was a throwawayscene that was not meant to be
anything bigger.
And then the moment that firstscene ended, she goes, it was
supposed to show that he has,that Klaus has some humanity.
(53:46):
It was not supposed to be gearedtowards Caroline, but everyone
took it as that.
Laura (53:49):
Mm-hmm.
Jordan (53:50):
And she goes, and so the writers thought it was funny,
all the reactions immediately onTwitter.
So they wrote in a couple morescenes just to be funny.
And I'm like, that's not funny.
And
Laura (54:01):
Yeah, we saw it.
We saw it.
Jordan (54:03):
supposed to be sexy, why sexy?
Why?
Laura (54:08):
Why?
Why are you leaning into this sohard and giving us all the like,
this is what I don't understand.
Stop having them make such goodeye contact if you don't want us
to believe that they're totally.
Jordan (54:20):
the eye contact and just like so far away, but like
leaning towards each other like
Laura (54:25):
Exactly.
Jordan (54:26):
it.
I don't care.
Laura (54:27):
Yeah, I'm with you.
Hundred percent.
Jordan (54:30):
Do you have any recs for us?
What are your, like go-to, whatare your top like Yes, read this
when people are asking or ifthey did ask.
Laura (54:39):
So I would say like the last contemporary romance that I
read was problematic SummerRomance by Ali Haywood.
And I don't think she needs merecommending her to anyone, but
I love her.
If you haven't read her, likejust dive in.
I, on this subject of VampireDiaries, I absolutely loved
Bride, her Vampire Werewolfromance.
(55:02):
Um, and I'm super excited forthe second one of those.
Um, I read the most amazing bookthat published here in the UK
this year called The Last Daysof Summer by Sarah Manning.
And it's being published andit's been bought by a publisher
in the States, so I know it willbe coming out.
I don't know when.
Um, and I would love to put thaton.
(55:26):
Oh, I would love to put this oneveryone's radar because it's so
good and it's, so, it's about,like this is so far up your
alley.
It's about a couple who hateeach other.
Like they have years and yearsand years ago they have like a
very explosive, hot hookup thatends badly and they hate each
(55:47):
other, but their best friendsare best friends.
So they've been like in eachother's orbit for years and
years and years hating eachother and not wanting to be
there.
And at the beginning of thebook, there's this kind of like
devastating news from theirfriends, their two friends.
Um, and they have this big likesummer party planned that's kind
(56:10):
of as a result of this news.
And the two of them have tolike, plan this party together
and they have to like, make itperfect for their friend who's
in this orchestration.
And so the tension, the pining,the heat, it's.
Unbelievable.
Like it's so, so good.
(56:31):
I really think you would love itand I think a lot of romance
readers are gonna really love itand it's, it's really funny and
escapist.
And then it also like rips yourheart out
Jordan (56:43):
Oh, I love that.
That sounds amazing.
Laura (56:47):
Last days of summer.
Sarah Manning.
Get it on your TBR right now.
Jordan (56:52):
Perfect.
Thanks.
Now I have more to add.
I'm almost done with all my arcsfor the season, so, which are so
fun.
I asked for all of them, they'regreat, but then like more things
come up and I'm like, Ooh, Ican't get distracted.
Laura (57:06):
it's, it's wild.
It's a very fun and wild time tobe a romance fan at the moment.
I think it's so, it's soexciting.
Like it's so exciting writing inthis moment.
And it's even more excitingbeing a reader and like a true
fan within this moment becausethe, the, it is so nice to see
(57:27):
romance writers getting the kindof recognition and stuff that
they deserve.
And I feel like this is thefirst time I've been a romance
reader all my life.
And now is the first time that Ican like walk into a bookshop
and there'll be a big romancetable and you know, it feels
like
Jordan (57:44):
Not half a shelf.
Laura (57:46):
Yeah, exactly.
And so it's such a joy, but itis also.
You know, it is also quiteoverwhelming.
Like my TBR is absolutely wild.
And then also like publishing.
When you are a book that'scoming out in July and you are
looking at like the list ofbooks that's coming out in July,
it's, you know, it's prettydaunting.
(58:07):
So, yeah, it's like a lot ofthings.
Jordan (58:12):
We like to say that the TBR is in hell at this point
because it's, it's never ending.
So that's perfect.
And I think you mentionedearlier that you've been
writing, are you working on yournext project
Laura (58:27):
I am working on multiple things at the moment and, and,
and I can't talk about any ofthem.
Jordan (58:35):
well, okay, well, fine.
Laura (58:40):
I'll be able to talk, I'll say that one of the things
that I'm working on is a.
Contemporary romcom and it is inthe same universe as let's make
and under your spell.
And if you, when you read, let'smake a scene.
My sort of hope is that you'llbe like, yeah, I would like to
read a book about thosecharacters.
(59:01):
And then you might, this is themost un subtle hymn ever.
Jordan (59:04):
Hmm.
Laura (59:05):
And so then you might know what I'm working on.
Jordan (59:08):
Ideas.
Love it.
Okay, well I'm excited to keepan eye out for that and also,
but this one, let's make a scenecomes out now.
So
Laura (59:21):
Which is crazy and scared me.
Please.
I'm begging you.
Jordan (59:26):
Yeah, do it.
You won't be sorry.
It's so good.
and if people wanna find you,
Laura (59:32):
um, yes, I would love that.
I've managed to wean myself offalmost all of them, so if you,
it's really only Instagram now,which I love, and I love talking
with people on my Instagramaccount.
So that is at Laura c.
Jordan (59:45):
Perfect.
Thank you so much for, this hasbeen so fun.
I feel like we could stayanother hour and just chat books
and.
Dive into
Laura (59:56):
this is my, this is literally my happy place.
Like just getting to talk.
I, it's so nice talking about mybook.
Like, it's really nice becauseyou've been, you know, you work
on it.
It's just you and your laptopfor such a long time and the joy
of like talking to other peoplewho've read it is intense.
But I love it when I get to comeon something like this.
(01:00:19):
Like, I love what you're doing.
And to get to just talk aboutromance books and why they're so
brilliant and special and totalk about them like in a fun
way, in a serious way, like, youknow, I just think that's so
rewarding.
So, yeah, absolutely.
My pleasure.
Jordan (01:00:37):
Thank you.
And thank you for listening tous ramble about.
Laura (01:00:41):
Mm.
Jordan (01:00:41):
Laura Wood and her books and her latest.
Let's make a scene.
If you're looking for moreromance Recs, be sure to follow
us on Instagram and TikTok andthreads at Romance Recs Pod.
You can find our favorite bookRecs from our episodes, as well
as behind the scenes content,again at Romance Recs Pod.
So give us a follow and we'll beback soon with another episode.
(01:01:03):
Thank you so much.
Laura (01:01:04):
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!