November 18, 2025 • 37 mins
Jordan and Devonnie interview with the #1 New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and USA TODAY bestselling author, Rachel Van Dyken. Rachel has almost two HUNDRED books published already. From regency to thrillers she has an extensive catalog to choose from.
Her latest release, Fallen Gods, comes out December 2nd! Fallen Gods is dark academia meets Norse mythology all set in our current world. Listen to learn how Rachel took these legends and put her own unique twist on them.
More about Rachel Van Dyken: https://rachelvandykenauthor.com/
Pre-order Fallen Gods: https://www.entangledpublishing.com/books/fallen-gods
https://substack.com/@romancerecspodcast
https://www.instagram.com/romancerecspod/
https://www.threads.net/@romancerecspod
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jordan (00:02):
Welcome to Romance Recs.
We are romance obsessed bestiessharing book res, broken down by
genres and tropes so you can besure you're getting exactly what
you want out of your next read.
I'm Jordan, and I am currentlylistening to the Tempest Blade
by, Danielle L.
Jensen.
Devonnie (00:20):
Hey guys, dev here, and I am reading the Fallen Gods
by Rachel Van Dyken.
I'm not done yet,
Jordan (00:29):
Perfect.
And we have with us today.
Rachel (00:33):
Rachel Van Dyken.
Jordan (00:34):
yay.
Rachel (00:37):
did it.
Jordan (00:38):
Yay.
Rachel (00:39):
Hello.
I am here and I am currentlyreading.
Okay.
I'm reading it, or I'm startingto read Kingdom of Tomorrow by
Gina Showalter, who, if you'venever read Gina Showalter
incredible author.
So I'm starting her book IToday, kingdom of Tomorrow.
Devonnie (00:52):
Love that.
Jordan (00:53):
is that her latest one?
Rachel (00:54):
Yes, I have the arc.
Yes.
Be jealous.
Jordan (00:57):
I saw that on, I saw it on Net Galley.
I got an arc of her last one Ithe with the Berserker and
Rachel (01:03):
Oh yeah.
Yes.
Jordan (01:05):
it was good.
It was good.
It was so good.
And I'm so
Rachel (01:07):
just so good.
No, thank you.
Sorry, I just go off on her now,but I'm so happy to be here,
guys.
So happy.
Jordan (01:14):
Perfect.
I am so excited to talk with youtoday, especially about fallen
gods.
Before we do that, we usuallystart our episodes with a quote
from a recent read or just afavorite quote that we found.
So I will kick us off, but Ihave a quote from Fallen Gods by
Rachel.
I have a few quotes I had tochoose from, but this one I
(01:35):
just, I love the imagery here.
Besides, we're all born with alittle bit of monster inside us
who says, that's a bad thing.
Something has to save us fromourselves.
And I just,
Devonnie (01:47):
Yeah, I do love that.
I love that.
Okay.
Okay.
I have a quote.
Also by Rachel, but it's fromthe godparent trap.
Rachel (01:57):
That.
Devonnie (01:57):
So yeah, so it is I don't know what sane man would
see you as just a friend.
He cursed under his breath.
You are like a fuckinghurricane, a chaotic, beautiful
mess of waves and wind.
Powerful, daunting, and any guy,especially ones like banks,
would risk his life during thestorm just to see if he can
survive it.
Because I want my man obsessed.
(02:18):
Yeah.
Rachel (02:19):
Yes.
Devonnie (02:20):
Just rip.
Rachel (02:21):
Yes.
No, I love it.
I, and I love that book.
You could tell I was definitelyhad toddlers when I wrote that
book.
Devonnie (02:28):
Yes.
Rachel (02:29):
People were like, I identify with this.
And I'm like, same with likenoodles in my hair.
It's cool.
It's cool.
You're not alone.
Devonnie (02:34):
The constant appointments, the running in and
out.
Yeah.
That was very relatable for me.
Rachel (02:38):
Yeah.
That was my life.
You were, you read my life.
You're welcome.
So I have, my quote is from myown book as well.
It's from Fallen Gods, and Ialso had a lot of quotes in
this.
Uh, some didn't even make it tothe book, but that's okay.
We'll talk about that later.
But the one that I like one ofthem that I like the most is
from that same section where shetalks about monsters.
And it is, it's not Hyde thatdoes the saving.
It's Jekyll.
(02:58):
And I don't know.
I loved that part, and that'slike a whole, that whole like
feeling of that scene is reallyfun too.
So it's a whole vibe.
Devonnie (03:05):
yeah.
Oh, that's so nice.
Jordan (03:07):
So Rachel, can you give us just a little about you?
What do you want readers to knowabout you?
Who are you?
And then yeah, we'll start withthat.
Who are you as an author?
Rachel (03:20):
Who even am I after all these books?
So I've written so.
I've written too many.
I have written almost 200 booksI've been writing since 2011.
Yeah.
So it's been a wild journeyhere.
I write the way that I read, soif you are like, I don't even
like romance, don't worry.
I got you.
'cause I write thriller, I likewrite mafia, I write basically
(03:41):
everything because I'm kind ofthat reader.
I will read anything as long asit's good writing and it's a
good story.
I am like here for it.
So I write that way.
So I write in every singlegenre.
I've been writing a very longtime.
I'm hybrid.
For readers listening, thatmeans that I do traditional and
I also do indie books.
Like I have my own publishingcompany.
So I kind of do both.
I like to have my feet in kindof both ends of the arena.
And this is my first traditionalbook that I've had out like in a
(04:02):
couple years since The GodparentTrap, actually, since Dev
mentioned that it's the firstbook since that.
So it's the one that I've beenworking on and pouring my heart
and soul into.
So yeah, so that's what I dofull-time as a writer.
I am a mom of two boys, two veryactive boys, and yeah, just
living the dream here, poundingout all the words all the time.
Devonnie (04:20):
I love that.
Jordan (04:21):
I feel like you're writing as fast as I'm reading
these days, which is so wild.
Oh my
Rachel (04:27):
But I write full time, so I always tell people like
it's full time.
And when I first started, Idon't know what Lunatic told me
this, but they were like, if youwanna be a real author, you have
to write 10,000 words a day.
And I was like, oh my gosh, if Iwanna be taken seriously, I too
have to write 10,000 words aday.
This was before kids mind you.
So before the insanity came in.
And so I took that to heart.
And I think my first yearwriting, I wrote seven books.
(04:48):
Because again, I thought that'swhat you were supposed, like
there was no rule book.
Right.
And there isn't now.
I hadn't reached out to authorsyet.
Like I didn't know, I was justGoogling things, so I read it
online and I was like, well,that's just what you do, because
that's what these people do whenI wanna be like these people, so
I'm gonna write like thesepeople.
So I take it with a grain ofsalt.
I don't do that anymore.
I don't write as fast as I usedto.
Devonnie (05:06):
I get that.
I love how candid that take isas well because I'm sure there
are a lot of aspiring authorswho probably see that you have
to hit this word count to betaken seriously.
So I love that, That you sharedthat
Jordan (05:19):
Perfect.
And we're fo with That's a lot,that's a big catalog to look
into, which is awesome, butwe're focusing
Devonnie (05:26):
bit of something.
Jordan (05:27):
on fallen gods.
Do you have your little elevatorspeech, your little synopsis
that you like to give for fallengods?
Rachel (05:35):
So I'm gonna, so Shane Rose quoted this and so I'm
gonna quote her.
So she said, Twilight meetsNorse mythology, but it's a
little bit more grown up.
So so people I had a lot ofpeople actually ask when they
were looking at this, they werelike, oh, well does it have, you
know, how is it ya?
Is it what?
So I write very like new adult.
I write very spicy.
Not like I'm like the mid, I'mmid.
There, I am right there.
So fallen gods is about a girlthe daughter of Odin that gets
(05:58):
dropped into this university.
She's an assassin and she has togo in and find Ner, which is
Thor's hammer and bring it backto the gods.
There's been a war that's beengoing on for a really long time.
So we're set in like moderntimes where the gods and giants
exist and she's trying to get itback to restore the power to the
gods, and also to restore thebiros, which connects us back to
Asgard.
So it's kind of like this wholejourney that she takes.
But again, we're thrown intomodern society, so it's not like
(06:20):
I created this random world.
It's like this could actuallyhappen to you.
I used rural spots.
I used, uh, lake Stevens.
I, my grandparents had a house.
They actually mimicked Eric'shouse after their house.
And I used a whole bunch of likenormal like landmarks.
An area, so like I, my, my goalwould be for someone to read
this and be like, oh, that couldactually happen.
I'm walking amongst Gods, andI'd be like, yes, you are.
Jordan (06:38):
That's so cool.
Devonnie (06:40):
we did see all the names of places like Everett,
Bellevue, lake Stevens.
Jordan (06:45):
Yeah.
And the ice caves
Rachel (06:47):
yeah,
Jordan (06:47):
Yeah, that's perfect.
'cause we are in the area.
We live in the area, yeah, itwas very personal.
Like we could see it.
So that was so fun.
I was able to finish.
Dev is still working on it.
So I we're gonna talk a littleabout, a little bit about
falling god's now as much as wecan.
I don't wanna
Rachel (07:05):
Yes.
We don't wanna spoil it.
Yeah, we
Devonnie (07:07):
Yeah.
Rachel (07:07):
because there's a crazy ending, so we can't spoil that
Jordan (07:10):
There
Devonnie (07:10):
Okay.
Right.
Yes.
Jordan (07:11):
of reveals.
Rachel (07:13):
Yes.
Jordan (07:13):
A lot of guessing.
You know, I, you always like toplay the guessing game when
there's like mysteries in abook.
And so I did a lot of that.
A couple I saw and others I waslike, oh, well maybe I should
have seen that, but I did notsee it at all.
So kudos to you.
You got me with
Rachel (07:29):
Thank you.
Jordan (07:29):
Yeah.
But it was, I don't know.
To me it was just sointeresting, the concept because
in, in this world, most of thegods and giants are what they,
what you call asleep.
Not like physically sleeping,but like their memories and who
they are is like not in theirconscious brain is kind of like
(07:54):
how I think of it.
And that was, it's just sointeresting to me.
And I still have so manyquestions that I can't wait.
Is this gonna be a duology?
Are you planning do you have a,how many plans do you have
planned?
Rachel (08:06):
So originally it was actually three books.
Now it's a Duology.
So the second book is gonna bepretty big because there's a lot
that we have to unpack herebecause Book one is, it's great,
but it's definitely like tappingthe surface.
And I, and it's so hard becauseI had so many things that I
wanted to do, but they were likeno.
Because I mean, when you're init, you're like, I don't even
know how long this is.
And it's that is definitelybeyond what you need to be
writing for this book.
(08:26):
Like when we get to the icecaves, you're well over halfway.
And I'm like, no, because in mybrain I'm like, yeah, that's
like you're only like 50 pagesin and no, that's not the case
at all.
That's, but that's how I'mwriting it because that's like
it, it's a very fast read.
'cause as you guys can tell, I'mvery dialogue heavy.
So whenever a book is verydialogue heavy.
Even though it's a longer book,it feels faster, right?
Because you can just read itfaster, you digest it faster.
It's as if you're watching amovie, you're just like right
(08:48):
there.
So yeah, it is meant to belonger than two books.
We're gonna, we're gonna pack itinto the second one and it just
makes it, it's just gonna bethat much better in book two.
But yeah, there's a lot tounpack.
Jordan (08:57):
Yeah, I've got, I still have so many questions and I was
like, I need to know what aboutthis, what about give me more.
So I definitely was left with Ineed to know, I need to know
these things.
So it was really cool.
But like the mythology to me waslike the star of the show.
Like it was so cool to see thattake on it.
(09:17):
So I was wondering like when youwere writing Fallen Gods,'cause
I read.
A little about you and how thismythology played a big part for
you, like growing up and youheard these stories right from
your dad, is that what I
Rachel (09:31):
My, my grandpa and my dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Devonnie (09:33):
Yeah.
Jordan (09:33):
so it was a big part of you too.
And so when writing a book likethis, how did you decide what to
keep and what to twist and make,put a twist on and change a
little bit?
What was that process like foryou?
I'm wondering'cause.
Rachel (09:49):
That was hard because there's, this is ton mythology.
If you really read themythology, like the real
mythology of it, like peoplealways think Marvel, they think
Thor immediately.
And I'm like, no.
That's such a small part of it.
So for me it was actually goingin and not doing a lot of the
things that.
That I wanted to do because itwould confuse people, and I
didn't want people to beconfused because a lot of times
when you read books about Greekgods, Roman gods you know,
(10:10):
because there's so many books onit, on Norse mythology, all you
have to compare it to is a Lokiand Thor, and maybe Odin.
That's all you have.
So going into it, it was reallyhard.
I tried to uncomplicate it asmuch as.
Physically possible.
And if, you know Norse mythologyone of the characters makes a
joke about a serpent.
'cause low-key has a serpent.
There's certain things that Ilike I put in there that it's
oh, if you know Norse mythology,you're gonna catch it.
(10:31):
If you don't, you're gonna belike, oh, that's funny.
But then later on be like, wait.
So I, that was the hard part forme.
It really was because there's somuch there.
And Norse mythology in and ofitself is extremely graphic.
And extremely it's crazy.
So like the things like if Iwere to put it in there, people
would be like, she's just makingstuff up now.
And I'd be like, no, listen,like that's actually part of the
mythology.
But people would, they'd beaccusatory, like I know that I
(10:52):
would get, I would probably getin trouble and pinged because
they would think I was trying tolike do stuff when I'm really,
I'm just like going towards whatI really studied as a kid.
So I kept in the stories that Iliked and I kept in the feel of
everything, but made it to whereit was like digestible.
My very first version of it, myeditors were like, you can't, we
can't publish this.
They were like, within the firstlike couple chapters they did,
(11:12):
they were like, no, like thefirst draft, because they were
like, we need a dictionary.
They were like, I don't evenknow what this word is'cause I
was using all the Norse wordsand I had stuff in Norwegian.
Listen guys.
I went'cause I love research.
So if you've ever read any of myother books, like Mafia, like I
am in there and everything isextremely researched.
And so for me, I was like, andit's gonna be amazing and we're
gonna teach them all thesethings.
They're like, yeah, peopledon't.
(11:33):
No, they don't go to Target toget taught.
No, honey.
No.
So they like had to Yeah, likethis is the one thing they don't
want, like this book will notsell.
So they had to like really reignme in because I was all like
geeking out and excited and theywere like, yeah, no, that's not
your target audience.
People don't care.
They don't
Jordan (11:48):
I dunno.
I care.
I love that stuff.
I'd read it like, there you go.
Devonnie (11:52):
I
Rachel (11:52):
you.
I'll give you the first draft.
You can read
Jordan (11:54):
No.
Rachel (11:55):
Live your best life and be like, she's so smart.
Thank you.
Devonnie (12:00):
with the dictionary.
Okay.
Okay.
And.
Rachel (12:03):
Little highlighter.
Hey,
Jordan (12:04):
You
Rachel (12:04):
dev knows.
Dev knows.
Jordan (12:06):
Or like the little numbers by each word.
And on the
Devonnie (12:09):
Right.
And then you go to the bottom ofthe page.
Yeah,
Rachel (12:11):
It'll be a bestseller in no time.
My, I feel it.
I feel it.
Jordan (12:15):
that's what Book Talk loves, right?
That's what we're
Devonnie (12:16):
Right, right.
Exactly.
That's what we're doing there.
Jordan (12:19):
that's ah, I just love it.
So I also just don't mind myinternet stalking bef like
Rachel (12:26):
Oh, you're fine.
Devonnie (12:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heavy stalking.
Rachel (12:28):
We do this.
Jordan (12:29):
stocking.
Yeah.
And we even saw, so I see justso many things that you've
pulled from, obviously thingsyou've loved growing up and your
life and which always makes it,I feel like, so much more
personal and like relatable.
When you're reading it, you cantell.
But like I saw, I think it was apost yesterday or something you
did about your husband's tattoosbecause he says ruined tattoos
(12:52):
on his fingers.
But first of all, we love thetattoos
Devonnie (12:55):
Yes.
Rachel (12:56):
Same.
Jordan (12:57):
But like I love it.
I think you said something like,didn't you model, was it odin's?
Markings after that?
That's
Rachel (13:06):
so like when he, and like the very, what was it?
The first chapter when he hashis pain, like the wolf or
whatever, cane, and he has hisfingers.
I was like, how, like I just hadthis vision and I write as if
I'm watching a movie, like thecharacters do things that I just
type out what happens.
So like I'm very visual and soI'm like, oh my goodness, like
cinematically like.
He's sitting in the car and hishand is on this and it's
twisting and all you hear is thetwist.
And then you see his fingersdrum and I'm like, oh man, how
(13:29):
cool would that be if he hasjust like ruins?
But he is like this older dudeand he is like, mafia, and my
brain just exploded.
I was like, so thankfully thehusband already had him.
But I have, I'm gonna becompletely transparent here.
I have in the past told myhusband, can you get this tattoo
from me so I can use it?
In this book, straight up, hewent and did it because he's a
team player in this house andthat's what we are.
(13:49):
I mean, my, listen, my son'sname is Sora.
Okay.
I don't mess around in thishouse, so
Jordan (13:53):
Yeah, you're
Rachel (13:54):
even kidding.
Jordan (13:55):
You're
Rachel (13:55):
Blonde.
Like we like did the cornrows.
So like we are a family, we're aunit.
So
Devonnie (14:00):
Yeah,
Rachel (14:01):
so he went and got, he got one of my mafia tattoos.
Every saint has a past, everycenter has a future is one of my
favorite quotes.
Favorite quotes of all time.
And so I was like, one of themafia guys has that on his ribs.
And I was like, if you couldjust go get that done on your
ribs, you know, the painfulpart, that'd be great.
And he was like, actually, Ireally liked that too.
So he went and got that done.
And then the room tattoos healready had done.
And then the dates of, or datesand names.
(14:23):
I believe the names of our sonslike Warwick, so we have Nor, so
my youngest is Wick, so Udi.
Then my second is Thor Theodore,and then so we have their names
and birth dates and stuff on hishands.
So that's where the room tattooscome from?
Jordan (14:35):
That's awesome.
Devonnie (14:36):
I love that.
I love that.
I know.
It's like such lore, you know,
Rachel (14:40):
Yes,
Devonnie (14:41):
like giving more,
Rachel (14:42):
have our own Laurie.
Devonnie (14:43):
Yeah.
Jordan (14:45):
Uh, that's awesome.
What was the most fun scene foryou to write?
Can you describe what was themost fun part of this?
Of fallen Gods to write?
Rachel (14:54):
I can't actually say, well, you guys know because you
read that part probably, butit's a spoiler scene of a
character reveal.
And I was like, if people do notthrow their kindles when this
happens, if I don't have peoplelike running to cancel me, I
have not done my job.
Listen, I have, I was like,literally.
So then I was waiting, but thenI was so deep in it with edits
that I was like, is this evengood anymore?
(15:15):
You know, you're getting to thatpoint where you're like, and so
one of the, so then Red tower?
Yes.
The publisher has people comein, like the editors come in,
they do a cold read andeverything.
And I got them and I was soexcited that a whole bunch of
them were like, we, because theyread so many fantasy books, I'm
like, you know, they know likethe formula, like they're gonna
see this and be like, oh greatRachel, good job.
So but I didn't, and I got acouple of them, especially one
of them that like normally.
'cause she works a lot in tv,doesn't, you know, she's knows
(15:38):
everything.
So she, I got her and she toldme that and admitted it and I
was like, I have done it.
Felt like I accomplishedsomething, but that's really
fun.
It's the reveals because I getgiddy, so like when I'm writing,
I'm not just oh my gosh.
And just oh, another word count.
I'm sitting here just and thenthis happens and then I get
excited.
And when that, when I had acouple character reveals I
literally just stood up and myhusband's and he just looks at
me like what'd you do?
I'm like, well, and then this.
(15:58):
And then all of a sudden I getlike teary eyed because I'm
like, pumped.
No one can see, no one cares.
And I'm like, and then I'll juststart clapping like this in
front of the computer.
And it's just like if peoplecould watch me, they'd be, think
I had a problem.
But I do that when I read bookstoo.
I'm just like, oh, and I likenarrate life.
So I mean that, I mean all thosescenes like that in this book,
that it was literally me justbeing like dancing, clapping for
(16:19):
myself, cheering,
Devonnie (16:20):
I love that.
Rachel (16:22):
But that's fun because for me it's so fun because I
know that people are gonna begeeked out to you and they're
gonna be like I called it or Isaw this coming, or I didn't see
this coming.
And I mean, that's the part Ilove reading.
Like I love it when it's aninteractive like that.
You should have a gut reactionto things.
And so those are the fun partswhen I know readers are gonna
freak out.
Love it.
Jordan (16:37):
had gut reactions to this book.
I definitely did.
Yes, for sure.
Devonnie (16:41):
And I love that you talk about a bit, a little bit
about your writing processbecause especially with you
saying that you write kinda likecinematically.
'cause in my brain that's how Ithink I write as well.
Like I see it and then Itranslate it.
And so for you, with that beingsaid, do you ever plot anything?
Do you consider yourself aplotter at all or are you just a
pants like we're sitting downand we're just like.
(17:02):
Something's gonna happen andyou're like waiting for your,
that So Raven vision to likethen start
Jordan (17:06):
That's,
Rachel (17:08):
Uh, no.
I am a total pants like I am.
Like I'll be writing and then belike, she's pregnant.
What did you do to like thecharacter?
Jordan (17:16):
you're
Rachel (17:17):
totally shocks me.
Devonnie (17:18):
Yeah.
So shocked.
Rachel (17:19):
yeah.
I'm just like, how could you Idon't even know what to do
anymore.
Like we have to.
Yeah.
So that's, I'm definitely apants with fantasy.
I've had to tone it down a bit.
I think a lot of times, a lot.
I say I'm a pants, but I thinktoo, when you're in your craft
so much.
It's actually a happy accident.
So I think a lot of times too,like I'll be writing and I don't
even realize I'm doing it, andthen I'll come back to book five
and be like, that was totallyplanned.
(17:40):
It wasn't planned.
But in my head, I think becauseof the way that it goes, it
really, the characters really doset that up for me.
So it ends up working out as ahappy accident.
But with fantasy, I think you dohave to, especially with world
building and stuff,
Devonnie (17:53):
right.
Rachel (17:53):
With mafia, I do the same.
I really have to focus on okay,these five things have to happen
and I have to stay true to thisworld.
But as long as that happens,then we're good.
So I would say like the bigdots, I know the big dots.
I call them big dots, like thebig things I know for the most
part, I know there's a couplesurprises and then the little
tiny things I don't or how theyget there.
That's like the writing processfor me is like those tiny okay,
well how do we thread this?
How do we get from point A topoint B?
(18:15):
And.
Sadly, I always wanna be inpoint B.
Then I'm like, yay.
And then I wanna be in point C.
But I know that there has to bea trail to get there.
So that's the hard part offocusing for me.
Jordan (18:23):
I love that you're so excited about what you know is
coming up and you're trying
Rachel (18:27):
Yeah.
Devonnie (18:27):
Yeah.
Just
Rachel (18:28):
And my editors can tell.
Yeah.
They're like, I know you wannawrite more dialogue, Rachel, but
you can't do that.
Yeah.
Jordan (18:35):
We have to know where they are too.
Devonnie (18:36):
so funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (18:37):
be dressed.
Yeah.
I don't feed them.
They're like, it's it's ahorrible thing.
Like it's, yeah.
And I'm like, they haven'teaten.
They have the same shirt on Idon't even know if they use the
restroom.
They're just magic, so whoknows.
Jordan (18:48):
Oh no, they're in bed.
Did get here.
I.
Rachel (18:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
It's been a day the book isdone.
Devonnie (18:57):
I actually love that.
Jordan (18:58):
I know.
Well, I mean, to be fair, fallenGods takes place in a week.
Devonnie (19:04):
Yeah.
We've got seven days to get itright.
Jordan (19:06):
we're going, so
Rachel (19:08):
Listen guys.
It was two days at one point.
No, it was like short because,so here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
I had it, I had, I tried, I'mtelling you all the D, all the
secrets.
I had it down to 30 days and Iwas like, oh, 30 days is like a
good, I'm like, you're inschool, you're used to
orientation, you're doing allthese things and then it like,
then you get to the point where,especially when like you have
(19:29):
some, like a mission that itfeels like you're slowed down by
all the mundane things.
And what I didn't wanna getpinged for was.
The everyday like, yes, theyneed to be in class.
Yes, they need me be doingthings.
But you can only be in mathclass for so long.
You can only be doing thesethings for so long.
And unless you wanna introduce abrand new thread, unless you
wanna introduce a brand new plotpoint, that stuff is all filler.
(19:49):
And readers don't buy a book forfiller.
They buy a book forentertainment and to for stuff
to get done.
And so I wanna make sure I'mdoing my job and I'm not just
writing a book of filler.
We're like 40%.
Is stuff you already know.
We're introducing things and soandSo, who's brand?
Who's this?
You're like, I don't care.
Jordan (20:03):
You wanna burn, you wanna open the book and burn
right through.
You're
Rachel (20:06):
And so while I'm sure some are gonna, are not gonna
that aspect of it, I think I getaway with it because it's not
instill love, it's sense to hatetechnically, but also they've
known each other.
So like you have that past, andI think that's an easier way to
kind of justify everything andit's magic.
And you're in these forcedemotionally high situations, so
of course you're gonna react inthose ways.
So I think if it was like any,yeah, it's, yeah, exactly.
(20:28):
So it's, I think you're able tojustify a lot of those actions.
Jordan (20:31):
They're not
Rachel (20:31):
I lie to myself,
Devonnie (20:33):
Yeah.
Jordan (20:33):
human.
It's fine.
Rachel (20:36):
it's fine.
Jordan (20:38):
We like to break up our interviews a little bit like
halfway through.
Something fun.
We don't have to think so muchabout it.
We're gonna play this or thatgame, and we're just gonna read
questions, this or that, andit's just the first answer that
comes to your head.
No wrong answers.
Only slight judgment, so nothingthat matters.
Rachel (20:57):
Okay.
Jordan (20:59):
All right, Deb, you wanna start us off?
You wanna
Devonnie (21:01):
Yes.
Okay.
Physical or ebook.
Rachel (21:06):
Both.
Jordan (21:08):
Starting us
Devonnie (21:09):
never had anyone I've never had anyone say both.
I feel like everyone alwayspicks, right.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Books that make you cry or booksthat make you laugh.
Rachel (21:17):
Laugh.
Devonnie (21:18):
All right.
Thor or Loki.
Jordan (21:21):
Yeah, that is correct.
Yeah,
Devonnie (21:24):
that's right.
That's right.
Rachel (21:25):
Got a little mischief.
Jordan (21:26):
yeah.
Devonnie (21:27):
Okay.
Last one for me.
Small town or billionaireRomance.
Rachel (21:32):
Billionaire romance, come on.
Jordan (21:34):
Billionaire in a small town is the best, but yeah,
that's a
Devonnie (21:37):
That's
Rachel (21:38):
hallmark action.
I'll do
Devonnie (21:39):
my personal, yeah, that's my personal,
Rachel (21:41):
Yes.
Jordan (21:42):
All right.
Standalone or series?
Rachel (21:44):
Ah.
Depends on my mood.
Probably series.
Yeah.
Jordan (21:48):
Marriage of convenience or arranged marriage or
Rachel (21:52):
Arranged marriage.
'cause they usually hate eachother.
Jordan (21:56):
Romantic or dark romance.
Rachel (21:59):
Romantic.
Devonnie (22:00):
Yay.
Jordan (22:01):
And then name your top three book boyfriends.
Rachel (22:05):
Don't.
Jordan (22:06):
Yeah,
Rachel (22:06):
Oh no.
Oh
Devonnie (22:09):
the hard one.
This is always the hard
Rachel (22:11):
other, but of other books.
Jordan (22:13):
Other books.
Or if you're just like, I
Devonnie (22:14):
or yours.
Jordan (22:16):
it's whatever comes to your heart, your mind.
Rachel (22:19):
Well, well, I don't know why.
It's my millennial heart.
Guys, listen, I'm 40.
Okay.
So originally, like you saythat, and I'm like.
I think AAR first.
Ryland of course.
And then I think, and then Ithink Twilight and then I think
Edward.
But again,
Jordan (22:32):
say you need to specify
Devonnie (22:33):
Specify.
Yeah.
Rachel (22:35):
but, okay.
My, at the time, 20-year-oldheart was like Edward Vampires
now that I'm older and I followJacob Taylor on TikTok and his
wife.
Yeah.
What?
Devonnie (22:45):
Yeah.
Rachel (22:45):
I'm like, I so wanna hang out with him and I wanna
be, and I'm like, I, he wasmassively underrated.
Can we just talk about
Jordan (22:51):
I've
Rachel (22:52):
we just talk about
Jordan (22:53):
Jacob.
I've always been Team Taylor,ner and
Rachel (22:55):
He got such the press, like everything, he was done so
dirty.
Can we just talk about this?
He really was.
He's so good.
And like he's and he like is soable to make fun of himself and
stuff now, but like he tried thehardest and like for him packing
up all all that muscle at thattime like, and like now knowing
what I know about the industryand like just how they're
shooting and everything, I'mlike, that boy like needs a
(23:16):
standing ovation for him andRobert Pattinson.
They worked them and they gotpaid nothing for that first
film.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I, yeah, there we go.
Sorry.
See there?
Yeah.
But there we go.
There's for that.
And then I think one more, so myother favorite character I've
written, I'm gonna say Phoenix,and he's one of my darker
characters.
So I write Mafia Romance andhe's one that has done like the
he's like the worst characterI've ever written as far as like
(23:37):
you can't redeem him.
And every person that read itwas like, you could never redeem
him.
And then I did.
And so now he's like in, I havea, what, 15, 18 books in this
mafia series.
And he's daddy Phoenix.
Like he just comes back in, evenin his fifties we're like, we're
here for it.
Because he's old now but I keepbringing him back.
Phoenix Rising from the ashes.
See, I knew, I didn't know
Devonnie (23:55):
Oh, you see, you knew.
You knew.
You knew.
Rachel (23:58):
past me, new future me would come back and you know, so
it was all part of the crazyplan.
So that's
Jordan (24:03):
it.
What's the book?
What's the series?
Devonnie (24:04):
Well, yeah.
What's the
Rachel (24:05):
So that's that.
His book is Ember and it's theEagle Elite Series.
So it's my other, I have thedark one series is my vampire,
like God's kind of series.
It's one of my bestsellingseries.
And Eagle Elite is my mafiaseries that started back in
2011.
That is still, it's finallyfinished, but it's uh, it's,
yeah, it's been ongoing forforever.
'cause it just has a hugefollowing.
So I just keep writing in it andwriting in it and that was my
first like dark, it was darkacademies, like that's how it
(24:27):
started.
Yeah.
Jordan (24:27):
a
Devonnie (24:28):
Oh, nice.
Okay.
Yeah, I was just about to say,that'll get Jordan hooked.
Jordan (24:31):
Every time.
Every time.
Devonnie (24:34):
Okay.
All right.
Jordan (24:35):
that.
That's
Devonnie (24:36):
So what genre do you read most often?
It seems like writing you, it'sfor everybody.
Like we can write anywhereanything, but when you are going
to look for a book or you'relike, Ooh I wanna read right
now, what are you reaching for?
Rachel (24:51):
So I can't read in the same genre that I'm writing in.
Like I refuse to do that.
So if I'm writing Mafia, I can'tread Mafia.
If I'm writing romantic, like Ihaven't read romantic book for
three years.
Uh, that's crazy because that'sone of my favorite genres to
read in.
But I'm like, I don't wantanything to seep in.
I don't want anything.
I don't want to even be, I don'twant anyone to ever even be
like, well, it's probably'causeshe read this.
(25:12):
I haven't read the fourth wingat all.
Not because I don't wannasupport Rebecca at all because
I, yeah.
But I just, I have not read itlike I, because I'm like, I
can't read a book that is in mysame genre or even at the same
publisher.
I have read two or three that I,that publisher asked me to read
to four.
For like quotes and stuff.
On May Cortland, I read hers andthen Abby, I'm reading hers
right now.
So like I've read a couple, butI, yeah.
(25:33):
So right now I'm reading, I loveto read my palate cleanser,
don't judge
Jordan (25:37):
No, no judgment
Rachel (25:38):
ruby, my palate cleanser's Ruby Dixon, the boo
aliens, like that is my palatecleanser.
So I go to the alien romancesbecause first off, I don't think
I could do it.
I don't, that's the one genre Ithink I would suck at.
But bless these women and theirability to just write the crap
out of these books.
They're so good and they'recrazy.
But the crazy part is if I tryto explain it out loud, I sound
(26:00):
crazy.
But when I read it, I'm like,they're actually really good,
really well written.
But
Devonnie (26:04):
They're good.
And first of all, I ice explaina barbarian.
It's a small town romance.
I'm a small town
Rachel (26:10):
And
Devonnie (26:10):
that is,
Jordan (26:11):
Yep.
That's Deb's
Devonnie (26:12):
that's my hot take.
It is a small town romance.
We all live in a cer.
Okay?
The men, that's a man that is a
Rachel (26:20):
They're homestead.
Yes.
Devonnie (26:22):
okay?
These are farmers, hunters andgatherers,
Jordan (26:25):
They're built for your pleasure.
Rachel (26:27):
I'm
Devonnie (26:28):
They.
Rachel (26:28):
yes.
Oh my gosh.
Devonnie (26:34):
And the world is so vast.
Rachel (26:37):
This.
Okay.
Devonnie (26:38):
yes.
Rachel (26:39):
this is the moment to tune in.
Devonnie (26:41):
I have been screaming about ice sweat bar.
Like
Jordan (26:43):
we've been
Devonnie (26:44):
I talk about it all to my, it's one of my favorite
series.
It's one of my favorite series.
Like I love it so much and it'sa wonderful palette, cleanser,
but also tear jerker.
You learn so much, you know?
Rachel (26:53):
No, I mean, it honestly is that's what, it's why it's
like you explain it, but you'relike, no, and then you wanna be
like, no, but gets deep.
And they're like, yeah,
Devonnie (26:59):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (26:59):
but yes, that,
Devonnie (27:01):
But also there are things, trauma.
Jordan (27:06):
that they had to work through
Devonnie (27:07):
Yeah.
Rachel (27:08):
Body dysmorphia.
There's so much
Devonnie (27:11):
There's so much I will, yeah.
I'll never stop brain.
So I, you, I think you're thefirst person to like, bring up
this series and be
Jordan (27:19):
first.
Devonnie (27:20):
Yeah.
Without me doing Right.
You know?
Rachel (27:22):
guys.
I was
Devonnie (27:23):
Thank you so much.
Rachel (27:24):
coached.
Okay.
Devonnie (27:25):
you.
I just, you know Yeah.
We just, we're just, we just onthe same page and I love that.
I love that.
Right, right, right,
Jordan (27:32):
I'm literally just a girl.
Devonnie (27:34):
right, right.
Yeah.
Meant to be.
I love that.
That's so good.
But yeah.
Okay, so you just can't readwhat you're writing.
But, so now are you gonna tryto, once the book's out?
Well no.
'cause you're probably stillworking on book two.
Huh?
Are
Rachel (27:46):
So I'm gonna I'll go back to Alien Romance and then
I'm gonna, I just downloaded,what is it?
I wrote it down.
Nina Jarrett, that's a new to meauthor, but Regency, I was just
like, what are some new regency
Devonnie (27:55):
Oh yeah.
Rachel (27:56):
like newer authors that like people don't know about,
that aren't mainstream, like I.
Know what it's like to be anauthor that no one knows about.
And still to this day, likepeople are like, I don't know
who that is.
And I'm like, then buy me readme.
That'd be great.
Because like people, likethere's so many authors out
there.
There's authors that havehundreds of thousands of
followers that I've never evenheard of that I'm like, man.
So imagine like the author thathas one that has really good
books, but no one has discoveredthem.
(28:16):
So my goal in life is to findthese authors and not only blast
them everywhere, but also readtheir books because there's so
many out there.
So downloaded hers.
My go-to always is Eloisa Jameswhen it comes to Regency or Lisa
Kpe.
So I go to them and then GinaShowalter already have, and then
I, yeah, so I kind of, I bouncearound a lot of times.
If I need a palate clean that'snot, uh, the not alien, I will
(28:37):
go to Regency or Historicalbecause it's so opposite of what
I write.
And I used to write, I used towrite, I have 14 Regency.
Books, so I used to write it soI understand the care that goes
into having to alter yoursentence structure and look up
words that didn't exist in thattime and write, you know, it's a
very different type of writingstyle, and so I really
appreciate when authors do itwell.
And so I like to read that aswell.
(28:58):
Yeah.
Devonnie (28:58):
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jordan (29:00):
So with all of those that you've read, what are like
some of your favorite reads fromthis past year?
We're coming on the end of theyear, 2025.
When you think about this pastyear of books, do you have a
couple titles that you're justlike, yeah, I remember reading
that.
Rachel (29:13):
Yeah, so filthy.
Fay, is it Filthy Rich Fay?
Is it Filthy Rich?
Fay, Geneva Lee.
So yeah, so I had to mypublisher was like, Hey, will
you do a blurb on, lets re readthis.
I was like, I love Geneva Lee'sbook.
So I hadn't read one of herbooks in a long time, and I saw
that she had this new series.
I'm like, oh man, I've beenmissing out.
Clearly I've been in my writinghole because I didn't know she'd
been releasing.
Devoured that book.
That's another book that liketons of dialogue.
(29:33):
You're like, wait, we're, Idon't even know if they're
dressed, but it's so good.
Like they're tons of dialogue.
So love, I like loved that book.
It like literally, I even toldmy publisher, I'm like, there's
too many quotes to give you onthis because it honestly had I
been.
In a reading slump, or had Ibeen like, I don't even know if
I like reading anymore.
If I would've read this, itwould've brought me out of it.
So completely that that's youknow, like a good book that can
do that.
Especially when you're jumpingright into almost like Mider, it
(29:55):
was a spinoff, so kind of mider.
So I'm really, I'm pumpingthrough her books right now.
What else am I reading?
I'm trying to think.
I am starting that GinaShowalter book.
And then I do have a stack ofthe last few Louisa James books
that I haven't finished yet thatI'm like waiting to go through.
And then someone, a reader toldme that I needed to start
reading Monster Romance, so I'mgonna
Jordan (30:14):
you have not tried that yet.
Rachel (30:16):
I have, so I tried.
What's the one that's reallypopular?
There's like a sleepover and
Jordan (30:20):
Farm.
No,
Rachel (30:22):
no.
Devonnie (30:22):
not more than.
Jordan (30:25):
you save Lot Romance and it's popular.
I'm gonna like.
Rachel (30:29):
Yeah.
My husband comes home.
What in the, don't worry aboutit
Jordan (30:33):
that's an after the kids go to bed book.
Rachel (30:35):
Well, I mean, it's kind of like I, because I'm like, I
can make the switch.
I can go from aliens, I cancreate a license.
Like I can go from here tosustain my disbelief to they
have horns and they have a tail.
I'm like, cool, I can get onboard with this.
Like literally figuratively,whatever.
Like we can do this.
So I, so yeah.
After this, if you guys wannagive me some, someone, ones I
need to read.
I was at a library in Utah withKa Lindy.
(30:56):
I was doing like in conversationwith her for her book releases
and I'm this is like after, thisis so sad.
So afterwards, everyone's likeleaving and stuff and we're
walking around and they're like,oh, if you need to this
restroom, do this.
And I'm like, so where are the,you know, like, where's all the
books?
So then I go to all the romancesection,'cause I'm romance and I
just literally start puttinglike a stack.
And I'm like, what about thisone?
She's oh.
And then she looked at me andshe was like, oh, here you go.
(31:17):
And she like saw the look in myeyes of like fever, like that I
needed, like all these books,even though I'm flying back home
and I didn't even bring, I haveto like, everything's gonna
carry on.
You guys listen, my, I think Ibought like 15 books I bought
like matches that I justrealized I couldn't take on the
plane, but they were so cute.
I bought them anyways becauseit's a bookstore.
And so I bought like all thesethings.
I'm like, I wore t-shirts.
I got I got all their t-shirtswas pride month.
(31:37):
So I had one that said good boy,and like all these like wearing
stuff on the plane.
So
Devonnie (31:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (31:42):
as I should.
So I'm like bringing all thisstuff.
So anyway, so that was me.
So that's how I am as thereader.
So yes, and there was a monsterromance in there, but.
I'm also a nice person and oneof my assistants I told her I
got her some books, so I waslike, but I'm gonna read some of
them first.
But I sent her the
Devonnie (31:55):
Yeah.
Rachel (31:56):
instead as like a good person.
Jordan (31:59):
I'm a
Rachel (31:59):
She just loves everything.
Yeah.
But no, I did.
And then the other ones I gaveto my sister, I actually read
them their regencies and theywere so cute.
And I read them first and thengave'em to her.
I mean, come on.
That sharing is caring.
Sharing is caring.
It is.
And I didn't bend the pagesguys.
I didn't bend them.
They were in pristine condition.
Like brand new,
Jordan (32:18):
No one knows.
No one has to know who's gonnaknow.
Rachel (32:21):
No one has to know.
No, but you know, like the panicwhen you're eating, but you
can't eat and read it at thesame time.
'cause it's a paperback andyou're just like, what do I
even, I don't
Devonnie (32:28):
Yeah.
Jordan (32:28):
I don't have that moment.
I trash my books, so it's fine.
Devonnie (32:31):
You know, she bends the
Rachel (32:32):
Oh,
Devonnie (32:33):
She basically crumples the book up into a little
Rachel (32:35):
show them.
Love
Jordan (32:37):
I do.
Rachel (32:37):
look at them and go, this has been loved.
Jordan (32:39):
reading.
It's a journey of my reading.
Devonnie (32:40):
If that's what you wanna call it, if that's what
you wanna call it, Rachel,
Jordan (32:44):
I do.
Rachel (32:44):
I mean, hey, we all have our journeys and yours might
just be messier, and that'sokay.
Devonnie (32:50):
Yeah.
Rachel (32:50):
everyone here in this circle.
Devonnie (32:52):
Not me.
Not me.
I judge and I judge.
Jordan (32:54):
does,
Rachel (32:56):
she said it was judge free.
You told me you promised.
Jordan (32:58):
I said we judge a little bit and in the
Devonnie (33:01):
Jordan said,
Rachel (33:03):
Yeah,
Devonnie (33:03):
no, I'm kidding.
Rachel (33:04):
Jeff.
I made no such promises.
Devonnie (33:06):
Yeah.
No.
I'm kidding.
Okay, so we know you're workingon book two, besides book two in
the series, is there anythingelse you're future planning
right now?
Is there anything like you'relike percolating about like that
you might wanna start writing or
Rachel (33:21):
I am working on a yes, so I add another book to this
one, obviously, and I have acouple contemporaries coming out
that they have to finish.
But no, I am working on avampire book right now.
I actually just texted my agentthis morning.
She was like, what do you wannado?
I have all these pitches, right,that they just sit in your
computer and I haven't sent themout yet.
And I'm like, I like them.
And I'm like, attached.
But I'm also like, man, I justreally wanna write like a really
(33:43):
good vampire.
Stuff in the modern age, likethrow everything on its head.
I want it to be different.
And she was like, okay, do it.
And so like getting the greenlight is always nice.
So it's like mom being like,okay
Devonnie (33:52):
yeah.
Yay.
Yeah.
Rachel (33:53):
so I texted her this morning, I'm like, how many
pages do you need?
Because that's gonna be next.
So I am writing that book rightnow and I'm loving it because
it's definitely.
Different.
I wish I could say, but now I'mlike, someone's gonna steal my
idea.
So I
Devonnie (34:04):
Yeah.
Don't yeah.
Yeah.
Jordan (34:05):
That's
Rachel (34:05):
It's a really cool concept on vampires, so I'm
like, I'm pumped about it.
So that's what I'm currentlyworking on.
I'm gonna try to take a littlebit, I always say this I'm gonna
take a break during Christmas,but who am I kidding?
I won't because I read and writethe same way.
Like I don't think of writinghis work.
It's like fun.
You have to, my husband has toliterally not tell me the code
to the safe.
If we ever go on vacation, whichwe haven't gone on forever, but
when we used to go on vacationwithout kids, he would put, he
(34:26):
would hide everything in thesafe, including my phone and not
tell me.
So I wasn't allowed to checksocial media wasn't allowed to
write, I wasn't allowed to doanything.
He was like, if you want write,you write with a pen.
Well, jokes on me.
I can't read my own handwriting.
So it never worked out anyways,so
Jordan (34:40):
He knew what he.
Rachel (34:41):
so really?
Yeah.
He was like, you're, let me giveyou a tool you can't even
Devonnie (34:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (34:45):
Yeah.
Anyways, maybe I'll busted outagain.
Yeah it'll, it's good.
It's a good thing.
Jordan (34:51):
Nice.
Well, I'm excited to see whatelse you come up with, which
obviously is a lot.
I'm excited to see where you gowith that.
You said it's a new take onvampires, but
Devonnie (35:00):
I love vampire
Jordan (35:01):
yeah, if people want to find you, look into your catalog
where can they find you?
Rachel (35:06):
So Instagram at HBD is my handle.
I try to be active on TikTok.
Look it, I'm a good lurker.
I lurk and I watch other tiktoksand I'm like, oh, they're
awesome.
But I tend to not.
Do my own videos.
'cause I feel like I'm reallyawkward when I try to film
things.
I'm like, that person thatyou're like, mom don't like,
just don't.
And now my oldest is, yeah, myoldest is almost 11.
(35:27):
And I'm like, what?
And he is shh.
But he's been calling me.
He is, you know what though?
He's been calling me big backfor the past month, so whatever.
He can sit down like I know.
Devonnie (35:35):
They're so mean.
Rachel (35:36):
do you know what that means?
But you know what, I'll take it.
I'd rather have that than that,so it's fine.
But like he, yeah, so I'm likenot cool anymore, so I can't
film the tiktoks.
Okay.
But I am on Instagram.
I have a website, Richmond I canauthor.com.
I'm active a little bit onFacebook.
I tend to not be as active andthen, but yeah, I answer all my
own Facebook messages, my owndms on Instagram.
It's all me.
'cause I'm chronically onlinewhen it comes to that kind of
(35:57):
section, so I'm always there togush about books and share stuff
and chat.
Jordan (36:01):
Awesome.
Devonnie (36:02):
look back.
Jordan (36:03):
you so much.
Go find her.
Go look at the whole hugecatalog.
Rachel (36:07):
Yes,
Jordan (36:07):
for everybody.
Devonnie (36:09):
a book.
Rachel (36:09):
Yes, there is.
Jordan (36:10):
And as always, you can find us in other interviews.
We've done deep dives and justso many recs, hundreds of recs.
At this point, we're deep intoseason three at Romance Recs Pod
Instagram.
Not much on TikTok, sometimesthreads, but also go find our
substack where you can getexclusive content and bonus
(36:33):
episodes and just a lot of funthings over there.
So make sure to go follow us,follow Rachel and happy reading
everybody.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Devonnie (36:43):
And December 2nd.
December 2nd.
Rachel (36:44):
December
Jordan (36:45):
Oh yes.
I'm so sorry.
Yes.
December 2nd.
Go read Fallen Gods.
Devonnie (36:49):
Gods
Jordan (36:50):
Woo.
I knew there was something.
I knew I was forgettingsomething.
Thank you.
That's why there's two of us.
Thank you.
Devonnie (36:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm here.
I got your babe.
Yeah,
Jordan (36:58):
Go by.
Read Fallen Gods by Rachel VanDyken.
Devonnie (37:02):
yeah.
Bye guys.
Welcome to Romance Recs.
We are romance obsessed bestiessharing book res, broken down by
genres and tropes so you can besure you're getting exactly what
you want out of your next read.
I'm Jordan, and I am currentlylistening to the Tempest Blade
by, Danielle L.
Jensen.
Devonnie (00:20):
Hey guys, dev here, and I am reading the Fallen Gods
by Rachel Van Dyken.
I'm not done yet,
Jordan (00:29):
Perfect.
And we have with us today.
Rachel (00:33):
Rachel Van Dyken.
Jordan (00:34):
yay.
Rachel (00:37):
did it.
Jordan (00:38):
Yay.
Rachel (00:39):
Hello.
I am here and I am currentlyreading.
Okay.
I'm reading it, or I'm startingto read Kingdom of Tomorrow by
Gina Showalter, who, if you'venever read Gina Showalter
incredible author.
So I'm starting her book IToday, kingdom of Tomorrow.
Devonnie (00:52):
Love that.
Jordan (00:53):
is that her latest one?
Rachel (00:54):
Yes, I have the arc.
Yes.
Be jealous.
Jordan (00:57):
I saw that on, I saw it on Net Galley.
I got an arc of her last one Ithe with the Berserker and
Rachel (01:03):
Oh yeah.
Yes.
Jordan (01:05):
it was good.
It was good.
It was so good.
And I'm so
Rachel (01:07):
just so good.
No, thank you.
Sorry, I just go off on her now,but I'm so happy to be here,
guys.
So happy.
Jordan (01:14):
Perfect.
I am so excited to talk with youtoday, especially about fallen
gods.
Before we do that, we usuallystart our episodes with a quote
from a recent read or just afavorite quote that we found.
So I will kick us off, but Ihave a quote from Fallen Gods by
Rachel.
I have a few quotes I had tochoose from, but this one I
(01:35):
just, I love the imagery here.
Besides, we're all born with alittle bit of monster inside us
who says, that's a bad thing.
Something has to save us fromourselves.
And I just,
Devonnie (01:47):
Yeah, I do love that.
I love that.
Okay.
Okay.
I have a quote.
Also by Rachel, but it's fromthe godparent trap.
Rachel (01:57):
That.
Devonnie (01:57):
So yeah, so it is I don't know what sane man would
see you as just a friend.
He cursed under his breath.
You are like a fuckinghurricane, a chaotic, beautiful
mess of waves and wind.
Powerful, daunting, and any guy,especially ones like banks,
would risk his life during thestorm just to see if he can
survive it.
Because I want my man obsessed.
(02:18):
Yeah.
Rachel (02:19):
Yes.
Devonnie (02:20):
Just rip.
Rachel (02:21):
Yes.
No, I love it.
I, and I love that book.
You could tell I was definitelyhad toddlers when I wrote that
book.
Devonnie (02:28):
Yes.
Rachel (02:29):
People were like, I identify with this.
And I'm like, same with likenoodles in my hair.
It's cool.
It's cool.
You're not alone.
Devonnie (02:34):
The constant appointments, the running in and
out.
Yeah.
That was very relatable for me.
Rachel (02:38):
Yeah.
That was my life.
You were, you read my life.
You're welcome.
So I have, my quote is from myown book as well.
It's from Fallen Gods, and Ialso had a lot of quotes in
this.
Uh, some didn't even make it tothe book, but that's okay.
We'll talk about that later.
But the one that I like one ofthem that I like the most is
from that same section where shetalks about monsters.
And it is, it's not Hyde thatdoes the saving.
It's Jekyll.
(02:58):
And I don't know.
I loved that part, and that'slike a whole, that whole like
feeling of that scene is reallyfun too.
So it's a whole vibe.
Devonnie (03:05):
yeah.
Oh, that's so nice.
Jordan (03:07):
So Rachel, can you give us just a little about you?
What do you want readers to knowabout you?
Who are you?
And then yeah, we'll start withthat.
Who are you as an author?
Rachel (03:20):
Who even am I after all these books?
So I've written so.
I've written too many.
I have written almost 200 booksI've been writing since 2011.
Yeah.
So it's been a wild journeyhere.
I write the way that I read, soif you are like, I don't even
like romance, don't worry.
I got you.
'cause I write thriller, I likewrite mafia, I write basically
(03:41):
everything because I'm kind ofthat reader.
I will read anything as long asit's good writing and it's a
good story.
I am like here for it.
So I write that way.
So I write in every singlegenre.
I've been writing a very longtime.
I'm hybrid.
For readers listening, thatmeans that I do traditional and
I also do indie books.
Like I have my own publishingcompany.
So I kind of do both.
I like to have my feet in kindof both ends of the arena.
And this is my first traditionalbook that I've had out like in a
(04:02):
couple years since The GodparentTrap, actually, since Dev
mentioned that it's the firstbook since that.
So it's the one that I've beenworking on and pouring my heart
and soul into.
So yeah, so that's what I dofull-time as a writer.
I am a mom of two boys, two veryactive boys, and yeah, just
living the dream here, poundingout all the words all the time.
Devonnie (04:20):
I love that.
Jordan (04:21):
I feel like you're writing as fast as I'm reading
these days, which is so wild.
Oh my
Rachel (04:27):
But I write full time, so I always tell people like
it's full time.
And when I first started, Idon't know what Lunatic told me
this, but they were like, if youwanna be a real author, you have
to write 10,000 words a day.
And I was like, oh my gosh, if Iwanna be taken seriously, I too
have to write 10,000 words aday.
This was before kids mind you.
So before the insanity came in.
And so I took that to heart.
And I think my first yearwriting, I wrote seven books.
(04:48):
Because again, I thought that'swhat you were supposed, like
there was no rule book.
Right.
And there isn't now.
I hadn't reached out to authorsyet.
Like I didn't know, I was justGoogling things, so I read it
online and I was like, well,that's just what you do, because
that's what these people do whenI wanna be like these people, so
I'm gonna write like thesepeople.
So I take it with a grain ofsalt.
I don't do that anymore.
I don't write as fast as I usedto.
Devonnie (05:06):
I get that.
I love how candid that take isas well because I'm sure there
are a lot of aspiring authorswho probably see that you have
to hit this word count to betaken seriously.
So I love that, That you sharedthat
Jordan (05:19):
Perfect.
And we're fo with That's a lot,that's a big catalog to look
into, which is awesome, butwe're focusing
Devonnie (05:26):
bit of something.
Jordan (05:27):
on fallen gods.
Do you have your little elevatorspeech, your little synopsis
that you like to give for fallengods?
Rachel (05:35):
So I'm gonna, so Shane Rose quoted this and so I'm
gonna quote her.
So she said, Twilight meetsNorse mythology, but it's a
little bit more grown up.
So so people I had a lot ofpeople actually ask when they
were looking at this, they werelike, oh, well does it have, you
know, how is it ya?
Is it what?
So I write very like new adult.
I write very spicy.
Not like I'm like the mid, I'mmid.
There, I am right there.
So fallen gods is about a girlthe daughter of Odin that gets
(05:58):
dropped into this university.
She's an assassin and she has togo in and find Ner, which is
Thor's hammer and bring it backto the gods.
There's been a war that's beengoing on for a really long time.
So we're set in like moderntimes where the gods and giants
exist and she's trying to get itback to restore the power to the
gods, and also to restore thebiros, which connects us back to
Asgard.
So it's kind of like this wholejourney that she takes.
But again, we're thrown intomodern society, so it's not like
(06:20):
I created this random world.
It's like this could actuallyhappen to you.
I used rural spots.
I used, uh, lake Stevens.
I, my grandparents had a house.
They actually mimicked Eric'shouse after their house.
And I used a whole bunch of likenormal like landmarks.
An area, so like I, my, my goalwould be for someone to read
this and be like, oh, that couldactually happen.
I'm walking amongst Gods, andI'd be like, yes, you are.
Jordan (06:38):
That's so cool.
Devonnie (06:40):
we did see all the names of places like Everett,
Bellevue, lake Stevens.
Jordan (06:45):
Yeah.
And the ice caves
Rachel (06:47):
yeah,
Jordan (06:47):
Yeah, that's perfect.
'cause we are in the area.
We live in the area, yeah, itwas very personal.
Like we could see it.
So that was so fun.
I was able to finish.
Dev is still working on it.
So I we're gonna talk a littleabout, a little bit about
falling god's now as much as wecan.
I don't wanna
Rachel (07:05):
Yes.
We don't wanna spoil it.
Yeah, we
Devonnie (07:07):
Yeah.
Rachel (07:07):
because there's a crazy ending, so we can't spoil that
Jordan (07:10):
There
Devonnie (07:10):
Okay.
Right.
Yes.
Jordan (07:11):
of reveals.
Rachel (07:13):
Yes.
Jordan (07:13):
A lot of guessing.
You know, I, you always like toplay the guessing game when
there's like mysteries in abook.
And so I did a lot of that.
A couple I saw and others I waslike, oh, well maybe I should
have seen that, but I did notsee it at all.
So kudos to you.
You got me with
Rachel (07:29):
Thank you.
Jordan (07:29):
Yeah.
But it was, I don't know.
To me it was just sointeresting, the concept because
in, in this world, most of thegods and giants are what they,
what you call asleep.
Not like physically sleeping,but like their memories and who
they are is like not in theirconscious brain is kind of like
(07:54):
how I think of it.
And that was, it's just sointeresting to me.
And I still have so manyquestions that I can't wait.
Is this gonna be a duology?
Are you planning do you have a,how many plans do you have
planned?
Rachel (08:06):
So originally it was actually three books.
Now it's a Duology.
So the second book is gonna bepretty big because there's a lot
that we have to unpack herebecause Book one is, it's great,
but it's definitely like tappingthe surface.
And I, and it's so hard becauseI had so many things that I
wanted to do, but they were likeno.
Because I mean, when you're init, you're like, I don't even
know how long this is.
And it's that is definitelybeyond what you need to be
writing for this book.
(08:26):
Like when we get to the icecaves, you're well over halfway.
And I'm like, no, because in mybrain I'm like, yeah, that's
like you're only like 50 pagesin and no, that's not the case
at all.
That's, but that's how I'mwriting it because that's like
it, it's a very fast read.
'cause as you guys can tell, I'mvery dialogue heavy.
So whenever a book is verydialogue heavy.
Even though it's a longer book,it feels faster, right?
Because you can just read itfaster, you digest it faster.
It's as if you're watching amovie, you're just like right
(08:48):
there.
So yeah, it is meant to belonger than two books.
We're gonna, we're gonna pack itinto the second one and it just
makes it, it's just gonna bethat much better in book two.
But yeah, there's a lot tounpack.
Jordan (08:57):
Yeah, I've got, I still have so many questions and I was
like, I need to know what aboutthis, what about give me more.
So I definitely was left with Ineed to know, I need to know
these things.
So it was really cool.
But like the mythology to me waslike the star of the show.
Like it was so cool to see thattake on it.
(09:17):
So I was wondering like when youwere writing Fallen Gods,'cause
I read.
A little about you and how thismythology played a big part for
you, like growing up and youheard these stories right from
your dad, is that what I
Rachel (09:31):
My, my grandpa and my dad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Devonnie (09:33):
Yeah.
Jordan (09:33):
so it was a big part of you too.
And so when writing a book likethis, how did you decide what to
keep and what to twist and make,put a twist on and change a
little bit?
What was that process like foryou?
I'm wondering'cause.
Rachel (09:49):
That was hard because there's, this is ton mythology.
If you really read themythology, like the real
mythology of it, like peoplealways think Marvel, they think
Thor immediately.
And I'm like, no.
That's such a small part of it.
So for me it was actually goingin and not doing a lot of the
things that.
That I wanted to do because itwould confuse people, and I
didn't want people to beconfused because a lot of times
when you read books about Greekgods, Roman gods you know,
(10:10):
because there's so many books onit, on Norse mythology, all you
have to compare it to is a Lokiand Thor, and maybe Odin.
That's all you have.
So going into it, it was reallyhard.
I tried to uncomplicate it asmuch as.
Physically possible.
And if, you know Norse mythologyone of the characters makes a
joke about a serpent.
'cause low-key has a serpent.
There's certain things that Ilike I put in there that it's
oh, if you know Norse mythology,you're gonna catch it.
(10:31):
If you don't, you're gonna belike, oh, that's funny.
But then later on be like, wait.
So I, that was the hard part forme.
It really was because there's somuch there.
And Norse mythology in and ofitself is extremely graphic.
And extremely it's crazy.
So like the things like if Iwere to put it in there, people
would be like, she's just makingstuff up now.
And I'd be like, no, listen,like that's actually part of the
mythology.
But people would, they'd beaccusatory, like I know that I
(10:52):
would get, I would probably getin trouble and pinged because
they would think I was trying tolike do stuff when I'm really,
I'm just like going towards whatI really studied as a kid.
So I kept in the stories that Iliked and I kept in the feel of
everything, but made it to whereit was like digestible.
My very first version of it, myeditors were like, you can't, we
can't publish this.
They were like, within the firstlike couple chapters they did,
(11:12):
they were like, no, like thefirst draft, because they were
like, we need a dictionary.
They were like, I don't evenknow what this word is'cause I
was using all the Norse wordsand I had stuff in Norwegian.
Listen guys.
I went'cause I love research.
So if you've ever read any of myother books, like Mafia, like I
am in there and everything isextremely researched.
And so for me, I was like, andit's gonna be amazing and we're
gonna teach them all thesethings.
They're like, yeah, peopledon't.
(11:33):
No, they don't go to Target toget taught.
No, honey.
No.
So they like had to Yeah, likethis is the one thing they don't
want, like this book will notsell.
So they had to like really reignme in because I was all like
geeking out and excited and theywere like, yeah, no, that's not
your target audience.
People don't care.
They don't
Jordan (11:48):
I dunno.
I care.
I love that stuff.
I'd read it like, there you go.
Devonnie (11:52):
I
Rachel (11:52):
you.
I'll give you the first draft.
You can read
Jordan (11:54):
No.
Rachel (11:55):
Live your best life and be like, she's so smart.
Thank you.
Devonnie (12:00):
with the dictionary.
Okay.
Okay.
And.
Rachel (12:03):
Little highlighter.
Hey,
Jordan (12:04):
You
Rachel (12:04):
dev knows.
Dev knows.
Jordan (12:06):
Or like the little numbers by each word.
And on the
Devonnie (12:09):
Right.
And then you go to the bottom ofthe page.
Yeah,
Rachel (12:11):
It'll be a bestseller in no time.
My, I feel it.
I feel it.
Jordan (12:15):
that's what Book Talk loves, right?
That's what we're
Devonnie (12:16):
Right, right.
Exactly.
That's what we're doing there.
Jordan (12:19):
that's ah, I just love it.
So I also just don't mind myinternet stalking bef like
Rachel (12:26):
Oh, you're fine.
Devonnie (12:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Heavy stalking.
Rachel (12:28):
We do this.
Jordan (12:29):
stocking.
Yeah.
And we even saw, so I see justso many things that you've
pulled from, obviously thingsyou've loved growing up and your
life and which always makes it,I feel like, so much more
personal and like relatable.
When you're reading it, you cantell.
But like I saw, I think it was apost yesterday or something you
did about your husband's tattoosbecause he says ruined tattoos
(12:52):
on his fingers.
But first of all, we love thetattoos
Devonnie (12:55):
Yes.
Rachel (12:56):
Same.
Jordan (12:57):
But like I love it.
I think you said something like,didn't you model, was it odin's?
Markings after that?
That's
Rachel (13:06):
so like when he, and like the very, what was it?
The first chapter when he hashis pain, like the wolf or
whatever, cane, and he has hisfingers.
I was like, how, like I just hadthis vision and I write as if
I'm watching a movie, like thecharacters do things that I just
type out what happens.
So like I'm very visual and soI'm like, oh my goodness, like
cinematically like.
He's sitting in the car and hishand is on this and it's
twisting and all you hear is thetwist.
And then you see his fingersdrum and I'm like, oh man, how
(13:29):
cool would that be if he hasjust like ruins?
But he is like this older dudeand he is like, mafia, and my
brain just exploded.
I was like, so thankfully thehusband already had him.
But I have, I'm gonna becompletely transparent here.
I have in the past told myhusband, can you get this tattoo
from me so I can use it?
In this book, straight up, hewent and did it because he's a
team player in this house andthat's what we are.
(13:49):
I mean, my, listen, my son'sname is Sora.
Okay.
I don't mess around in thishouse, so
Jordan (13:53):
Yeah, you're
Rachel (13:54):
even kidding.
Jordan (13:55):
You're
Rachel (13:55):
Blonde.
Like we like did the cornrows.
So like we are a family, we're aunit.
So
Devonnie (14:00):
Yeah,
Rachel (14:01):
so he went and got, he got one of my mafia tattoos.
Every saint has a past, everycenter has a future is one of my
favorite quotes.
Favorite quotes of all time.
And so I was like, one of themafia guys has that on his ribs.
And I was like, if you couldjust go get that done on your
ribs, you know, the painfulpart, that'd be great.
And he was like, actually, Ireally liked that too.
So he went and got that done.
And then the room tattoos healready had done.
And then the dates of, or datesand names.
(14:23):
I believe the names of our sonslike Warwick, so we have Nor, so
my youngest is Wick, so Udi.
Then my second is Thor Theodore,and then so we have their names
and birth dates and stuff on hishands.
So that's where the room tattooscome from?
Jordan (14:35):
That's awesome.
Devonnie (14:36):
I love that.
I love that.
I know.
It's like such lore, you know,
Rachel (14:40):
Yes,
Devonnie (14:41):
like giving more,
Rachel (14:42):
have our own Laurie.
Devonnie (14:43):
Yeah.
Jordan (14:45):
Uh, that's awesome.
What was the most fun scene foryou to write?
Can you describe what was themost fun part of this?
Of fallen Gods to write?
Rachel (14:54):
I can't actually say, well, you guys know because you
read that part probably, butit's a spoiler scene of a
character reveal.
And I was like, if people do notthrow their kindles when this
happens, if I don't have peoplelike running to cancel me, I
have not done my job.
Listen, I have, I was like,literally.
So then I was waiting, but thenI was so deep in it with edits
that I was like, is this evengood anymore?
(15:15):
You know, you're getting to thatpoint where you're like, and so
one of the, so then Red tower?
Yes.
The publisher has people comein, like the editors come in,
they do a cold read andeverything.
And I got them and I was soexcited that a whole bunch of
them were like, we, because theyread so many fantasy books, I'm
like, you know, they know likethe formula, like they're gonna
see this and be like, oh greatRachel, good job.
So but I didn't, and I got acouple of them, especially one
of them that like normally.
'cause she works a lot in tv,doesn't, you know, she's knows
(15:38):
everything.
So she, I got her and she toldme that and admitted it and I
was like, I have done it.
Felt like I accomplishedsomething, but that's really
fun.
It's the reveals because I getgiddy, so like when I'm writing,
I'm not just oh my gosh.
And just oh, another word count.
I'm sitting here just and thenthis happens and then I get
excited.
And when that, when I had acouple character reveals I
literally just stood up and myhusband's and he just looks at
me like what'd you do?
I'm like, well, and then this.
(15:58):
And then all of a sudden I getlike teary eyed because I'm
like, pumped.
No one can see, no one cares.
And I'm like, and then I'll juststart clapping like this in
front of the computer.
And it's just like if peoplecould watch me, they'd be, think
I had a problem.
But I do that when I read bookstoo.
I'm just like, oh, and I likenarrate life.
So I mean that, I mean all thosescenes like that in this book,
that it was literally me justbeing like dancing, clapping for
(16:19):
myself, cheering,
Devonnie (16:20):
I love that.
Rachel (16:22):
But that's fun because for me it's so fun because I
know that people are gonna begeeked out to you and they're
gonna be like I called it or Isaw this coming, or I didn't see
this coming.
And I mean, that's the part Ilove reading.
Like I love it when it's aninteractive like that.
You should have a gut reactionto things.
And so those are the fun partswhen I know readers are gonna
freak out.
Love it.
Jordan (16:37):
had gut reactions to this book.
I definitely did.
Yes, for sure.
Devonnie (16:41):
And I love that you talk about a bit, a little bit
about your writing processbecause especially with you
saying that you write kinda likecinematically.
'cause in my brain that's how Ithink I write as well.
Like I see it and then Itranslate it.
And so for you, with that beingsaid, do you ever plot anything?
Do you consider yourself aplotter at all or are you just a
pants like we're sitting downand we're just like.
(17:02):
Something's gonna happen andyou're like waiting for your,
that So Raven vision to likethen start
Jordan (17:06):
That's,
Rachel (17:08):
Uh, no.
I am a total pants like I am.
Like I'll be writing and then belike, she's pregnant.
What did you do to like thecharacter?
Jordan (17:16):
you're
Rachel (17:17):
totally shocks me.
Devonnie (17:18):
Yeah.
So shocked.
Rachel (17:19):
yeah.
I'm just like, how could you Idon't even know what to do
anymore.
Like we have to.
Yeah.
So that's, I'm definitely apants with fantasy.
I've had to tone it down a bit.
I think a lot of times, a lot.
I say I'm a pants, but I thinktoo, when you're in your craft
so much.
It's actually a happy accident.
So I think a lot of times too,like I'll be writing and I don't
even realize I'm doing it, andthen I'll come back to book five
and be like, that was totallyplanned.
(17:40):
It wasn't planned.
But in my head, I think becauseof the way that it goes, it
really, the characters really doset that up for me.
So it ends up working out as ahappy accident.
But with fantasy, I think you dohave to, especially with world
building and stuff,
Devonnie (17:53):
right.
Rachel (17:53):
With mafia, I do the same.
I really have to focus on okay,these five things have to happen
and I have to stay true to thisworld.
But as long as that happens,then we're good.
So I would say like the bigdots, I know the big dots.
I call them big dots, like thebig things I know for the most
part, I know there's a couplesurprises and then the little
tiny things I don't or how theyget there.
That's like the writing processfor me is like those tiny okay,
well how do we thread this?
How do we get from point A topoint B?
(18:15):
And.
Sadly, I always wanna be inpoint B.
Then I'm like, yay.
And then I wanna be in point C.
But I know that there has to bea trail to get there.
So that's the hard part offocusing for me.
Jordan (18:23):
I love that you're so excited about what you know is
coming up and you're trying
Rachel (18:27):
Yeah.
Devonnie (18:27):
Yeah.
Just
Rachel (18:28):
And my editors can tell.
Yeah.
They're like, I know you wannawrite more dialogue, Rachel, but
you can't do that.
Yeah.
Jordan (18:35):
We have to know where they are too.
Devonnie (18:36):
so funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (18:37):
be dressed.
Yeah.
I don't feed them.
They're like, it's it's ahorrible thing.
Like it's, yeah.
And I'm like, they haven'teaten.
They have the same shirt on Idon't even know if they use the
restroom.
They're just magic, so whoknows.
Jordan (18:48):
Oh no, they're in bed.
Did get here.
I.
Rachel (18:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
It's been a day the book isdone.
Devonnie (18:57):
I actually love that.
Jordan (18:58):
I know.
Well, I mean, to be fair, fallenGods takes place in a week.
Devonnie (19:04):
Yeah.
We've got seven days to get itright.
Jordan (19:06):
we're going, so
Rachel (19:08):
Listen guys.
It was two days at one point.
No, it was like short because,so here's the thing.
Here's the thing.
I had it, I had, I tried, I'mtelling you all the D, all the
secrets.
I had it down to 30 days and Iwas like, oh, 30 days is like a
good, I'm like, you're inschool, you're used to
orientation, you're doing allthese things and then it like,
then you get to the point where,especially when like you have
(19:29):
some, like a mission that itfeels like you're slowed down by
all the mundane things.
And what I didn't wanna getpinged for was.
The everyday like, yes, theyneed to be in class.
Yes, they need me be doingthings.
But you can only be in mathclass for so long.
You can only be doing thesethings for so long.
And unless you wanna introduce abrand new thread, unless you
wanna introduce a brand new plotpoint, that stuff is all filler.
(19:49):
And readers don't buy a book forfiller.
They buy a book forentertainment and to for stuff
to get done.
And so I wanna make sure I'mdoing my job and I'm not just
writing a book of filler.
We're like 40%.
Is stuff you already know.
We're introducing things and soandSo, who's brand?
Who's this?
You're like, I don't care.
Jordan (20:03):
You wanna burn, you wanna open the book and burn
right through.
You're
Rachel (20:06):
And so while I'm sure some are gonna, are not gonna
that aspect of it, I think I getaway with it because it's not
instill love, it's sense to hatetechnically, but also they've
known each other.
So like you have that past, andI think that's an easier way to
kind of justify everything andit's magic.
And you're in these forcedemotionally high situations, so
of course you're gonna react inthose ways.
So I think if it was like any,yeah, it's, yeah, exactly.
(20:28):
So it's, I think you're able tojustify a lot of those actions.
Jordan (20:31):
They're not
Rachel (20:31):
I lie to myself,
Devonnie (20:33):
Yeah.
Jordan (20:33):
human.
It's fine.
Rachel (20:36):
it's fine.
Jordan (20:38):
We like to break up our interviews a little bit like
halfway through.
Something fun.
We don't have to think so muchabout it.
We're gonna play this or thatgame, and we're just gonna read
questions, this or that, andit's just the first answer that
comes to your head.
No wrong answers.
Only slight judgment, so nothingthat matters.
Rachel (20:57):
Okay.
Jordan (20:59):
All right, Deb, you wanna start us off?
You wanna
Devonnie (21:01):
Yes.
Okay.
Physical or ebook.
Rachel (21:06):
Both.
Jordan (21:08):
Starting us
Devonnie (21:09):
never had anyone I've never had anyone say both.
I feel like everyone alwayspicks, right.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Books that make you cry or booksthat make you laugh.
Rachel (21:17):
Laugh.
Devonnie (21:18):
All right.
Thor or Loki.
Jordan (21:21):
Yeah, that is correct.
Yeah,
Devonnie (21:24):
that's right.
That's right.
Rachel (21:25):
Got a little mischief.
Jordan (21:26):
yeah.
Devonnie (21:27):
Okay.
Last one for me.
Small town or billionaireRomance.
Rachel (21:32):
Billionaire romance, come on.
Jordan (21:34):
Billionaire in a small town is the best, but yeah,
that's a
Devonnie (21:37):
That's
Rachel (21:38):
hallmark action.
I'll do
Devonnie (21:39):
my personal, yeah, that's my personal,
Rachel (21:41):
Yes.
Jordan (21:42):
All right.
Standalone or series?
Rachel (21:44):
Ah.
Depends on my mood.
Probably series.
Yeah.
Jordan (21:48):
Marriage of convenience or arranged marriage or
Rachel (21:52):
Arranged marriage.
'cause they usually hate eachother.
Jordan (21:56):
Romantic or dark romance.
Rachel (21:59):
Romantic.
Devonnie (22:00):
Yay.
Jordan (22:01):
And then name your top three book boyfriends.
Rachel (22:05):
Don't.
Jordan (22:06):
Yeah,
Rachel (22:06):
Oh no.
Oh
Devonnie (22:09):
the hard one.
This is always the hard
Rachel (22:11):
other, but of other books.
Jordan (22:13):
Other books.
Or if you're just like, I
Devonnie (22:14):
or yours.
Jordan (22:16):
it's whatever comes to your heart, your mind.
Rachel (22:19):
Well, well, I don't know why.
It's my millennial heart.
Guys, listen, I'm 40.
Okay.
So originally, like you saythat, and I'm like.
I think AAR first.
Ryland of course.
And then I think, and then Ithink Twilight and then I think
Edward.
But again,
Jordan (22:32):
say you need to specify
Devonnie (22:33):
Specify.
Yeah.
Rachel (22:35):
but, okay.
My, at the time, 20-year-oldheart was like Edward Vampires
now that I'm older and I followJacob Taylor on TikTok and his
wife.
Yeah.
What?
Devonnie (22:45):
Yeah.
Rachel (22:45):
I'm like, I so wanna hang out with him and I wanna
be, and I'm like, I, he wasmassively underrated.
Can we just talk about
Jordan (22:51):
I've
Rachel (22:52):
we just talk about
Jordan (22:53):
Jacob.
I've always been Team Taylor,ner and
Rachel (22:55):
He got such the press, like everything, he was done so
dirty.
Can we just talk about this?
He really was.
He's so good.
And like he's and he like is soable to make fun of himself and
stuff now, but like he tried thehardest and like for him packing
up all all that muscle at thattime like, and like now knowing
what I know about the industryand like just how they're
shooting and everything, I'mlike, that boy like needs a
(23:16):
standing ovation for him andRobert Pattinson.
They worked them and they gotpaid nothing for that first
film.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I, yeah, there we go.
Sorry.
See there?
Yeah.
But there we go.
There's for that.
And then I think one more, so myother favorite character I've
written, I'm gonna say Phoenix,and he's one of my darker
characters.
So I write Mafia Romance andhe's one that has done like the
he's like the worst characterI've ever written as far as like
(23:37):
you can't redeem him.
And every person that read itwas like, you could never redeem
him.
And then I did.
And so now he's like in, I havea, what, 15, 18 books in this
mafia series.
And he's daddy Phoenix.
Like he just comes back in, evenin his fifties we're like, we're
here for it.
Because he's old now but I keepbringing him back.
Phoenix Rising from the ashes.
See, I knew, I didn't know
Devonnie (23:55):
Oh, you see, you knew.
You knew.
You knew.
Rachel (23:58):
past me, new future me would come back and you know, so
it was all part of the crazyplan.
So that's
Jordan (24:03):
it.
What's the book?
What's the series?
Devonnie (24:04):
Well, yeah.
What's the
Rachel (24:05):
So that's that.
His book is Ember and it's theEagle Elite Series.
So it's my other, I have thedark one series is my vampire,
like God's kind of series.
It's one of my bestsellingseries.
And Eagle Elite is my mafiaseries that started back in
2011.
That is still, it's finallyfinished, but it's uh, it's,
yeah, it's been ongoing forforever.
'cause it just has a hugefollowing.
So I just keep writing in it andwriting in it and that was my
first like dark, it was darkacademies, like that's how it
(24:27):
started.
Yeah.
Jordan (24:27):
a
Devonnie (24:28):
Oh, nice.
Okay.
Yeah, I was just about to say,that'll get Jordan hooked.
Jordan (24:31):
Every time.
Every time.
Devonnie (24:34):
Okay.
All right.
Jordan (24:35):
that.
That's
Devonnie (24:36):
So what genre do you read most often?
It seems like writing you, it'sfor everybody.
Like we can write anywhereanything, but when you are going
to look for a book or you'relike, Ooh I wanna read right
now, what are you reaching for?
Rachel (24:51):
So I can't read in the same genre that I'm writing in.
Like I refuse to do that.
So if I'm writing Mafia, I can'tread Mafia.
If I'm writing romantic, like Ihaven't read romantic book for
three years.
Uh, that's crazy because that'sone of my favorite genres to
read in.
But I'm like, I don't wantanything to seep in.
I don't want anything.
I don't want to even be, I don'twant anyone to ever even be
like, well, it's probably'causeshe read this.
(25:12):
I haven't read the fourth wingat all.
Not because I don't wannasupport Rebecca at all because
I, yeah.
But I just, I have not read itlike I, because I'm like, I
can't read a book that is in mysame genre or even at the same
publisher.
I have read two or three that I,that publisher asked me to read
to four.
For like quotes and stuff.
On May Cortland, I read hers andthen Abby, I'm reading hers
right now.
So like I've read a couple, butI, yeah.
(25:33):
So right now I'm reading, I loveto read my palate cleanser,
don't judge
Jordan (25:37):
No, no judgment
Rachel (25:38):
ruby, my palate cleanser's Ruby Dixon, the boo
aliens, like that is my palatecleanser.
So I go to the alien romancesbecause first off, I don't think
I could do it.
I don't, that's the one genre Ithink I would suck at.
But bless these women and theirability to just write the crap
out of these books.
They're so good and they'recrazy.
But the crazy part is if I tryto explain it out loud, I sound
(26:00):
crazy.
But when I read it, I'm like,they're actually really good,
really well written.
But
Devonnie (26:04):
They're good.
And first of all, I ice explaina barbarian.
It's a small town romance.
I'm a small town
Rachel (26:10):
And
Devonnie (26:10):
that is,
Jordan (26:11):
Yep.
That's Deb's
Devonnie (26:12):
that's my hot take.
It is a small town romance.
We all live in a cer.
Okay?
The men, that's a man that is a
Rachel (26:20):
They're homestead.
Yes.
Devonnie (26:22):
okay?
These are farmers, hunters andgatherers,
Jordan (26:25):
They're built for your pleasure.
Rachel (26:27):
I'm
Devonnie (26:28):
They.
Rachel (26:28):
yes.
Oh my gosh.
Devonnie (26:34):
And the world is so vast.
Rachel (26:37):
This.
Okay.
Devonnie (26:38):
yes.
Rachel (26:39):
this is the moment to tune in.
Devonnie (26:41):
I have been screaming about ice sweat bar.
Like
Jordan (26:43):
we've been
Devonnie (26:44):
I talk about it all to my, it's one of my favorite
series.
It's one of my favorite series.
Like I love it so much and it'sa wonderful palette, cleanser,
but also tear jerker.
You learn so much, you know?
Rachel (26:53):
No, I mean, it honestly is that's what, it's why it's
like you explain it, but you'relike, no, and then you wanna be
like, no, but gets deep.
And they're like, yeah,
Devonnie (26:59):
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (26:59):
but yes, that,
Devonnie (27:01):
But also there are things, trauma.
Jordan (27:06):
that they had to work through
Devonnie (27:07):
Yeah.
Rachel (27:08):
Body dysmorphia.
There's so much
Devonnie (27:11):
There's so much I will, yeah.
I'll never stop brain.
So I, you, I think you're thefirst person to like, bring up
this series and be
Jordan (27:19):
first.
Devonnie (27:20):
Yeah.
Without me doing Right.
You know?
Rachel (27:22):
guys.
I was
Devonnie (27:23):
Thank you so much.
Rachel (27:24):
coached.
Okay.
Devonnie (27:25):
you.
I just, you know Yeah.
We just, we're just, we just onthe same page and I love that.
I love that.
Right, right, right,
Jordan (27:32):
I'm literally just a girl.
Devonnie (27:34):
right, right.
Yeah.
Meant to be.
I love that.
That's so good.
But yeah.
Okay, so you just can't readwhat you're writing.
But, so now are you gonna tryto, once the book's out?
Well no.
'cause you're probably stillworking on book two.
Huh?
Are
Rachel (27:46):
So I'm gonna I'll go back to Alien Romance and then
I'm gonna, I just downloaded,what is it?
I wrote it down.
Nina Jarrett, that's a new to meauthor, but Regency, I was just
like, what are some new regency
Devonnie (27:55):
Oh yeah.
Rachel (27:56):
like newer authors that like people don't know about,
that aren't mainstream, like I.
Know what it's like to be anauthor that no one knows about.
And still to this day, likepeople are like, I don't know
who that is.
And I'm like, then buy me readme.
That'd be great.
Because like people, likethere's so many authors out
there.
There's authors that havehundreds of thousands of
followers that I've never evenheard of that I'm like, man.
So imagine like the author thathas one that has really good
books, but no one has discoveredthem.
(28:16):
So my goal in life is to findthese authors and not only blast
them everywhere, but also readtheir books because there's so
many out there.
So downloaded hers.
My go-to always is Eloisa Jameswhen it comes to Regency or Lisa
Kpe.
So I go to them and then GinaShowalter already have, and then
I, yeah, so I kind of, I bouncearound a lot of times.
If I need a palate clean that'snot, uh, the not alien, I will
(28:37):
go to Regency or Historicalbecause it's so opposite of what
I write.
And I used to write, I used towrite, I have 14 Regency.
Books, so I used to write it soI understand the care that goes
into having to alter yoursentence structure and look up
words that didn't exist in thattime and write, you know, it's a
very different type of writingstyle, and so I really
appreciate when authors do itwell.
And so I like to read that aswell.
(28:58):
Yeah.
Devonnie (28:58):
I love that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jordan (29:00):
So with all of those that you've read, what are like
some of your favorite reads fromthis past year?
We're coming on the end of theyear, 2025.
When you think about this pastyear of books, do you have a
couple titles that you're justlike, yeah, I remember reading
that.
Rachel (29:13):
Yeah, so filthy.
Fay, is it Filthy Rich Fay?
Is it Filthy Rich?
Fay, Geneva Lee.
So yeah, so I had to mypublisher was like, Hey, will
you do a blurb on, lets re readthis.
I was like, I love Geneva Lee'sbook.
So I hadn't read one of herbooks in a long time, and I saw
that she had this new series.
I'm like, oh man, I've beenmissing out.
Clearly I've been in my writinghole because I didn't know she'd
been releasing.
Devoured that book.
That's another book that liketons of dialogue.
(29:33):
You're like, wait, we're, Idon't even know if they're
dressed, but it's so good.
Like they're tons of dialogue.
So love, I like loved that book.
It like literally, I even toldmy publisher, I'm like, there's
too many quotes to give you onthis because it honestly had I
been.
In a reading slump, or had Ibeen like, I don't even know if
I like reading anymore.
If I would've read this, itwould've brought me out of it.
So completely that that's youknow, like a good book that can
do that.
Especially when you're jumpingright into almost like Mider, it
(29:55):
was a spinoff, so kind of mider.
So I'm really, I'm pumpingthrough her books right now.
What else am I reading?
I'm trying to think.
I am starting that GinaShowalter book.
And then I do have a stack ofthe last few Louisa James books
that I haven't finished yet thatI'm like waiting to go through.
And then someone, a reader toldme that I needed to start
reading Monster Romance, so I'mgonna
Jordan (30:14):
you have not tried that yet.
Rachel (30:16):
I have, so I tried.
What's the one that's reallypopular?
There's like a sleepover and
Jordan (30:20):
Farm.
No,
Rachel (30:22):
no.
Devonnie (30:22):
not more than.
Jordan (30:25):
you save Lot Romance and it's popular.
I'm gonna like.
Rachel (30:29):
Yeah.
My husband comes home.
What in the, don't worry aboutit
Jordan (30:33):
that's an after the kids go to bed book.
Rachel (30:35):
Well, I mean, it's kind of like I, because I'm like, I
can make the switch.
I can go from aliens, I cancreate a license.
Like I can go from here tosustain my disbelief to they
have horns and they have a tail.
I'm like, cool, I can get onboard with this.
Like literally figuratively,whatever.
Like we can do this.
So I, so yeah.
After this, if you guys wannagive me some, someone, ones I
need to read.
I was at a library in Utah withKa Lindy.
(30:56):
I was doing like in conversationwith her for her book releases
and I'm this is like after, thisis so sad.
So afterwards, everyone's likeleaving and stuff and we're
walking around and they're like,oh, if you need to this
restroom, do this.
And I'm like, so where are the,you know, like, where's all the
books?
So then I go to all the romancesection,'cause I'm romance and I
just literally start puttinglike a stack.
And I'm like, what about thisone?
She's oh.
And then she looked at me andshe was like, oh, here you go.
(31:17):
And she like saw the look in myeyes of like fever, like that I
needed, like all these books,even though I'm flying back home
and I didn't even bring, I haveto like, everything's gonna
carry on.
You guys listen, my, I think Ibought like 15 books I bought
like matches that I justrealized I couldn't take on the
plane, but they were so cute.
I bought them anyways becauseit's a bookstore.
And so I bought like all thesethings.
I'm like, I wore t-shirts.
I got I got all their t-shirtswas pride month.
(31:37):
So I had one that said good boy,and like all these like wearing
stuff on the plane.
So
Devonnie (31:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (31:42):
as I should.
So I'm like bringing all thisstuff.
So anyway, so that was me.
So that's how I am as thereader.
So yes, and there was a monsterromance in there, but.
I'm also a nice person and oneof my assistants I told her I
got her some books, so I waslike, but I'm gonna read some of
them first.
But I sent her the
Devonnie (31:55):
Yeah.
Rachel (31:56):
instead as like a good person.
Jordan (31:59):
I'm a
Rachel (31:59):
She just loves everything.
Yeah.
But no, I did.
And then the other ones I gaveto my sister, I actually read
them their regencies and theywere so cute.
And I read them first and thengave'em to her.
I mean, come on.
That sharing is caring.
Sharing is caring.
It is.
And I didn't bend the pagesguys.
I didn't bend them.
They were in pristine condition.
Like brand new,
Jordan (32:18):
No one knows.
No one has to know who's gonnaknow.
Rachel (32:21):
No one has to know.
No, but you know, like the panicwhen you're eating, but you
can't eat and read it at thesame time.
'cause it's a paperback andyou're just like, what do I
even, I don't
Devonnie (32:28):
Yeah.
Jordan (32:28):
I don't have that moment.
I trash my books, so it's fine.
Devonnie (32:31):
You know, she bends the
Rachel (32:32):
Oh,
Devonnie (32:33):
She basically crumples the book up into a little
Rachel (32:35):
show them.
Love
Jordan (32:37):
I do.
Rachel (32:37):
look at them and go, this has been loved.
Jordan (32:39):
reading.
It's a journey of my reading.
Devonnie (32:40):
If that's what you wanna call it, if that's what
you wanna call it, Rachel,
Jordan (32:44):
I do.
Rachel (32:44):
I mean, hey, we all have our journeys and yours might
just be messier, and that'sokay.
Devonnie (32:50):
Yeah.
Rachel (32:50):
everyone here in this circle.
Devonnie (32:52):
Not me.
Not me.
I judge and I judge.
Jordan (32:54):
does,
Rachel (32:56):
she said it was judge free.
You told me you promised.
Jordan (32:58):
I said we judge a little bit and in the
Devonnie (33:01):
Jordan said,
Rachel (33:03):
Yeah,
Devonnie (33:03):
no, I'm kidding.
Rachel (33:04):
Jeff.
I made no such promises.
Devonnie (33:06):
Yeah.
No.
I'm kidding.
Okay, so we know you're workingon book two, besides book two in
the series, is there anythingelse you're future planning
right now?
Is there anything like you'relike percolating about like that
you might wanna start writing or
Rachel (33:21):
I am working on a yes, so I add another book to this
one, obviously, and I have acouple contemporaries coming out
that they have to finish.
But no, I am working on avampire book right now.
I actually just texted my agentthis morning.
She was like, what do you wannado?
I have all these pitches, right,that they just sit in your
computer and I haven't sent themout yet.
And I'm like, I like them.
And I'm like, attached.
But I'm also like, man, I justreally wanna write like a really
(33:43):
good vampire.
Stuff in the modern age, likethrow everything on its head.
I want it to be different.
And she was like, okay, do it.
And so like getting the greenlight is always nice.
So it's like mom being like,okay
Devonnie (33:52):
yeah.
Yay.
Yeah.
Rachel (33:53):
so I texted her this morning, I'm like, how many
pages do you need?
Because that's gonna be next.
So I am writing that book rightnow and I'm loving it because
it's definitely.
Different.
I wish I could say, but now I'mlike, someone's gonna steal my
idea.
So I
Devonnie (34:04):
Yeah.
Don't yeah.
Yeah.
Jordan (34:05):
That's
Rachel (34:05):
It's a really cool concept on vampires, so I'm
like, I'm pumped about it.
So that's what I'm currentlyworking on.
I'm gonna try to take a littlebit, I always say this I'm gonna
take a break during Christmas,but who am I kidding?
I won't because I read and writethe same way.
Like I don't think of writinghis work.
It's like fun.
You have to, my husband has toliterally not tell me the code
to the safe.
If we ever go on vacation, whichwe haven't gone on forever, but
when we used to go on vacationwithout kids, he would put, he
(34:26):
would hide everything in thesafe, including my phone and not
tell me.
So I wasn't allowed to checksocial media wasn't allowed to
write, I wasn't allowed to doanything.
He was like, if you want write,you write with a pen.
Well, jokes on me.
I can't read my own handwriting.
So it never worked out anyways,so
Jordan (34:40):
He knew what he.
Rachel (34:41):
so really?
Yeah.
He was like, you're, let me giveyou a tool you can't even
Devonnie (34:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Rachel (34:45):
Yeah.
Anyways, maybe I'll busted outagain.
Yeah it'll, it's good.
It's a good thing.
Jordan (34:51):
Nice.
Well, I'm excited to see whatelse you come up with, which
obviously is a lot.
I'm excited to see where you gowith that.
You said it's a new take onvampires, but
Devonnie (35:00):
I love vampire
Jordan (35:01):
yeah, if people want to find you, look into your catalog
where can they find you?
Rachel (35:06):
So Instagram at HBD is my handle.
I try to be active on TikTok.
Look it, I'm a good lurker.
I lurk and I watch other tiktoksand I'm like, oh, they're
awesome.
But I tend to not.
Do my own videos.
'cause I feel like I'm reallyawkward when I try to film
things.
I'm like, that person thatyou're like, mom don't like,
just don't.
And now my oldest is, yeah, myoldest is almost 11.
(35:27):
And I'm like, what?
And he is shh.
But he's been calling me.
He is, you know what though?
He's been calling me big backfor the past month, so whatever.
He can sit down like I know.
Devonnie (35:35):
They're so mean.
Rachel (35:36):
do you know what that means?
But you know what, I'll take it.
I'd rather have that than that,so it's fine.
But like he, yeah, so I'm likenot cool anymore, so I can't
film the tiktoks.
Okay.
But I am on Instagram.
I have a website, Richmond I canauthor.com.
I'm active a little bit onFacebook.
I tend to not be as active andthen, but yeah, I answer all my
own Facebook messages, my owndms on Instagram.
It's all me.
'cause I'm chronically onlinewhen it comes to that kind of
(35:57):
section, so I'm always there togush about books and share stuff
and chat.
Jordan (36:01):
Awesome.
Devonnie (36:02):
look back.
Jordan (36:03):
you so much.
Go find her.
Go look at the whole hugecatalog.
Rachel (36:07):
Yes,
Jordan (36:07):
for everybody.
Devonnie (36:09):
a book.
Rachel (36:09):
Yes, there is.
Jordan (36:10):
And as always, you can find us in other interviews.
We've done deep dives and justso many recs, hundreds of recs.
At this point, we're deep intoseason three at Romance Recs Pod
Instagram.
Not much on TikTok, sometimesthreads, but also go find our
substack where you can getexclusive content and bonus
(36:33):
episodes and just a lot of funthings over there.
So make sure to go follow us,follow Rachel and happy reading
everybody.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
Devonnie (36:43):
And December 2nd.
December 2nd.
Rachel (36:44):
December
Jordan (36:45):
Oh yes.
I'm so sorry.
Yes.
December 2nd.
Go read Fallen Gods.
Devonnie (36:49):
Gods
Jordan (36:50):
Woo.
I knew there was something.
I knew I was forgettingsomething.
Thank you.
That's why there's two of us.
Thank you.
Devonnie (36:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm here.
I got your babe.
Yeah,
Jordan (36:58):
Go by.
Read Fallen Gods by Rachel VanDyken.
Devonnie (37:02):
yeah.
Bye guys.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.