S02.30: Lesson #16: Plaids Are the Most Versatile Statement Piece

In which Caroline and Hannah attend Old School School, study The Bride by Julie Garwood, and dissect the enneagrams of romance characters.

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Intro: (00:00)

✪ Lesson #16: The Bride by Julie Garwood - (7:18)

Outro: (1:07:40)

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(Disclaimer: Caroline works for Forever Publishing; all opinions are our own and not affiliated with any other party. Image by Freepik)

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello, our throbbing members.

(00:05):
Welcome to romance or TBR.
I just really hope that nobody put that on with like, they connected it to their car
or something.
They call car speakers and like their kids are in the car and it's just you being like,
hello throbbing members.
I feel like that would happen to me, honestly.
Yeah, drive through.

(00:27):
That's always a tricky, tricky culprit.
Yeah.
Also like, my dad listens to audiobooks so loud, you can like clearly like hear them
through the car.
So I feel like most people can like hear what I'm listening to.
I just like feel that when I'm listening to Taylor Swift or something.
So just do not connect automatically.
I drive a car that used to be my dad's car and I remember every time he would go like

(00:50):
pick me up anywhere, I could always hear clearly whatever he was listening to and it doesn't
even have to be that loud for that to be the case.
So I just, I always have to pause my music when I go into like a drive through situation.
Yeah, because I like blast Taylor, but no, my dad was listening to the Prince Harry book
like when it came out and I was with him in the car and it was of course the like Toddger

(01:15):
frostbite part and we were driving up to like Sam's club and he just, because we're doing
an order pickup and he just has a blasting.
I'm like the poor pickup person nor do I need to hear about Prince Harry's frozen Toddger
and his weird hand cream that he put on it.
It's like, this is so forever scarred and I hope no one scarred from being a throbbing

(01:42):
member because that's what you are now.
So no choice in the matter.
We're like the top podcast for it was like 30 some people.
So those, those are the really, those are 32 throbbing members.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
You have to work your way up to get the throbbing.
It's true.

(02:02):
There are different levels.
Turgid.
Yeah.
Like if we're in your top five, but we weren't your number one, you're a turgid number.
Steely members.
We have to, someone has to be like a, I think I said earthy.
I was like, what?
Oh, that makes more sense.
Like at some point someone has to like work their way up to like a velvet covered steel

(02:24):
member.
You have to like give us money for that.
Give us money.
Not even like subscribe to a Patreon.
Like no, just give us money.
Donate to the cause.
That's so ominous.
Track down our Venmos if you want to be velvet wrapped steel members.
That is horrible.

(02:45):
Why wouldn't you?
That is a true shit.
With your kind, generous donation.
Anything we should be paying them for making them listen to this.
With your kind, generous donation, we could get buttons and t-shirts and coffee mugs and
pencils and everything else that you'd want that phrase on.
No one needs anything from us on a mug.

(03:08):
I'm going to pass out throbbing member bracelets at StimulantCon.
As you should.
I'll make them too.
It'll be a whole thing.
Yeah.
It's just so perfect.
It really made me giggle.
So that's what's on my brain.
Things no one wants their throbbing member to make you do is giggle.

(03:34):
So true.
Giggly goose.
Wow.
Yeah.
It is December.
Yeah, apparently that's what the calendars tell me.
This was a calendar.
So I've got an advent calendar hanging up behind me and it claims to be December.

(03:54):
And that means we are coming to the end of our second season.
That's crazy.
That is crazy.
And with the end of our second season comes the end of old school school.
At least for now.
Yeah, we may have to like go up a grade.

(04:14):
Level up.
We're in middle school.
We're in old school elementary school right now.
Yes, so we've come to the final old school school episode of season two, which is wild.
So many books that we have read.
We've read so many books this year.

(04:36):
And yet I've only read two books in December.
I mean, me too.
One I started before December.
I think also me too.
I just have no motivation.
My entire TBR is like novellas and I still can't like get myself to do that.
I'm really struggling.

(04:57):
I'm not in the mood for holiday things.
I am working on a book for work that I'm really enjoying, but it's not romance.
It's historical fiction.
Curveball.
I know.
Well, that's, I mean, other than this one, I read a nonfiction book.
That was my first book of December and then I'm working on the historical fiction.
So I'm like, what's going on?

(05:17):
Who is she?
She's tired from the 37 books she read in October.
And she has yet to recover.
And she's working full time, which is like a normal person thing to do, but I didn't
do it for a long time.
And she's moving.
So and that's the most.

(05:39):
It is the most.
So she's really into the gym right now.
That's a plot twist that is maybe more of a plot twist than the nonfiction.
Do you want to hear a real plot twist?
I do.
I listened to a Rosalind Landor narrated audiobook that I didn't hate.
And I think that's because she did a Scottish accent.

(06:03):
And I wonder when I started.
I was like, oh, Rosalind Landor, that means Hannah's not going to listen to it.
But I simply was not going to sit my butt down and read a book.
So I had to listen.
And because I bought during the Audible sale, which was like it was probably like 85 percent
off.
So it was like three dollars.
And they had a bunch of like Joanna Lindsay and Julie Garwood that I couldn't get the

(06:25):
library.
So I was like, OK, I'll just buy all these.
And then I realized when they were in my car that some of them were Rosalind Landor.
So I took those out.
And as I was reading them out, the bride was left.
I was like, oh, shit.
And so I listened to the sample and I was like, because I don't mind.
Like I like how she narrates everything else besides the heroes.
Like I just can't do it.
But I was like, if he's Scottish, he at least won't sound like a moldy English ghost.

(06:50):
And there were some parts that I was like, I hear you, Rosalind.
But for the most part, it was good.
And I was like, thank the Lord.
I'm really happy for you.
Thank you.
That brings me joy that filled me fills me with brightness and gratitude.
It fills your stocking of Formula One driver.
So I'm happy.

(07:11):
Thank you.
I was pleasantly surprised.
That's good.
This was this was a good one.
This was my my own.
I had one issue.
OK, well, first, OK, what?
We are romance or TBR and we are reading The Bride by Julie Garwood.

(07:33):
We can do it.
Maybe for season three, we'll have like an intro that says our name and who we are and
all that, because we're so bad at it.
Just feels like not committing to the bit if we do that.
True.
Who are we if we're actually introducing ourselves at the top?
Very bad.
Half the joy is trying to banter our way into things and not doing it half the time.

(07:56):
But we say we successfully banter through that wall today.
Look at that segue we had.
I don't know that we did.
It was perfect.
Plot twists, twisted around and found the right direction.
OK, if you say so.
With less confidence as the seconds pass.

(08:20):
That's OK.
But it's fine.
Yes, we sure are.
We read The Bride by Julie Garwood, a classic, a book that I read first in 2020.
Go look at my review.
I haven't changed it.
Fascinating to see that I gave it 4.25 peppers out of five peppers.

(08:45):
It had come at the time that I had...
So Diana Quincy was one of the first authors that I think like followed me back on Bookstagram
and I had like found her because Her Night with the Duke was coming out at the time I
think that I joined.
So then she followed me back.
I was like, that's amazing.
She's like a god.
And then she had like an interview with Paul Maron, the romance novel model.

(09:09):
And so I watched that.
And then she had like in that interview, I think, she talked about like her favorite
like classic romances that got her into the genre.
And one was The Pearl by Mary Balog and then The Bride by Julie Garwood.
I read both of them.
I bought both of them.
And I read The Pearl first.

(09:30):
And that one was like a three star.
And then I read The Bride after that.
And you can see my review.
I'm like, I like this one better and her writing and stuff.
So yeah, this was probably my first like old, old, except for maybe a Bettina Cron that
I read where he was like a very angry, hungry man.
And she was like the best cook in the land.
And it was very odd, but it was not very steamy at all.

(09:51):
And I was very confused, but slightly turned on because she was making good food.
So it was the whole thing.
But this was like, this was a good intro.
And I think it is a good intro just for a lot of people if you're like trying to get
into it.
But I think my ratings say the same.
I think it's a good Scottish one.

(10:13):
It's a good, if you're not sure, you want to do the Highland thing.
It felt a lot like Lord of Scoundrels to me, whereas Lord of Scoundrels to me felt better.
But it was kind of all like the heroine kind of, I don't know, like knowing that the hero
was good, no one else.
She was like, he is so funny.
And everyone's like, what do you mean?

(10:34):
He's never cracked a joke in his life.
And she's like, he's hilarious and all of that.
I can see those.
I can see those similarities.
I can see what you're putting down.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
But then reading Lord of Scoundrels, she's miming, picking up and putting down.
I'm picking things up and I'm putting them down.

(10:55):
She's like a claw game.
I did a mime performance when you're in Girl Scouts, okay?
And I was the star of the little mime skit.
So I'm so sorry to all who are listening and not watching because what a performance you
missed.
There's a pro-mime and you have no idea.

(11:18):
How devastating for you listeners.
Yeah, honestly, I feel like you really missed out on something huge.
You did.
I hope you feel that loss.
In your throbbing member.
Okay, what were you going to say about liking it except for one thing?
The one thing I did not like.

(11:39):
Spoilers ahead.
You got that one thing.
Nice.
Thanks.
I did not love the Annie.
Yeah, I forgot.
And then I was like halfway through.
I was like very early on as soon as we got those two women, I was like, oh, because Rosalind

(12:00):
or was doing a female voice and like, obviously you figured out fairly early on it was a woman.
Yeah, from the things that she was saying.
And then there's only really two other women and Edith would be too easy of an answer.
And I was like, oh, no, not not the mentally disabled one is the vicious murderer.

(12:21):
It was very confusing.
I will say I was not.
I did not pick up what Julie Guy would was putting down the first read because my review
is like, that was the I had no clue.
And honestly, I forgot.
And it wasn't like 50% through.
I was like, she wouldn't do that was she?
You would say she would.
How is she going to get that?

(12:41):
Like, how is that going to happen?
And then it did.
I was like, it didn't like it just wasn't didn't love that.
No.
It didn't feel super necessary, except I guess kind of like he did have his outpouring of
emotions when she was in danger.
And I respect that.
I just think like you could have still had like the sister do it if she was just like

(13:09):
not mentally disabled.
And that was like the crux of her evilness.
Yeah.
Like if she was like, yes, her mind is twisted.
And I was like, yeah, because like you got the like one part where she thought she was
like an innocent child.
So like, but then not in like the like insane way.

(13:31):
So it was kind of a weird twist.
Not to it.
Like it was weird how like you get told the one thing and then you just have to.
I mean, I think I understood what she meant when she said she.
Yeah.
But it's always interesting to me how people write from the perspective of a historical
character encountering a disabled person.

(13:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What's the one that we read that did that?
The brother.
I thought that was the title.
I was like, I've never heard of the brother.
The brother is the oh, bewitching.
Yes.
Yes.
That I thought she did a really good job of not being insulting or in fancy.
And Any Duchess will do by Tessa Dare.

(14:12):
Her sister.
Oh, I heard that one.
That's why.
Yeah, it's it's really good.
Her sister.
Which one?
It's the one I always talk about with the crazy desk scene.
But her sister is mentally impaired.
So then her whole thing is like getting money to then take the sister away from the parents.
I mean, I think it's an interesting like when it's done well, I think it can be done really

(14:34):
well.
It's just always interesting to see like obviously they didn't have the same language or understanding
of mental disabilities that we do.
So how are you going to do this from a historical perspective, but not be insulting or infantilizing
in a way that let's be honest, they probably actually were.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because I think there was.
And so I got what she she described her as being like, one of those.

(14:57):
She probably said like unfortunate souls or something.
She definitely said unfortunate.
Like remained childlike forever.
And I was like, okay, that's a that's what I was going with at the beginning.
So I didn't think it meant innocent.
I mean, like I understood where what that meant in that context.
I'm like, but then it the dots connected and I was like, oh, man, what do you mean?

(15:22):
She's the twisted man.
And I do think it was meant to be like, wasn't she abused essentially when she was young?
Wasn't that whole family like the reason he married Helena was because the father was
bad and he had to get her out of it.
Right.
And it was supposed to be like she came out of a bad because when they get Mary, Mary
Elizabeth, what's the daughter's Catherine, Mary Catherine, when she goes and gets her

(15:45):
and it becomes apparent that like she she says, oh, she must not have been abused for
very long.
She must not have been in that situation very long and she must have been treated well before
because she's so she's so good and so like tender hearted.
And Alec is like side eye.
Actually, I assumed that was because he was like, you were abused your entire life and

(16:08):
you turned out wonderful.
So I don't know what you're talking about.
Like, oh, she must have been fine.
But as soon as they said and she was like, oh, well, you know, when you're treated badly,
it like twists the mind.
And I was like, oh, no, no, Julie Garwood, you're so sexy.
Don't do that.
Aha.

(16:29):
Like, I love that.
Yeah.
Don't make your mentally disabled character the like twisted insane murderer.
You're so sexy.
You got those sexy little whimpers.
Every sex scene, every single one.
Why why was she always doing sexy little whimpers in the back of her throat?

(16:49):
And why was that always the phrase?
It just really stuck out to me every time because like sexy is a weird word in a lot
of.
I know.
I know.
I markedly called her baby and he said sexy.
And I, for one, love those because I mean, they must have.
I'm assuming they were back like spoken back then.
I didn't mind it.
It just felt jarring in the context.
So it is really fun.

(17:10):
One book I read.
Oh, it's the one by Christy Caldwell.
Always know something with a.
It's the first one that I always talk about.
He just calls her sexy, like sexy about her.
Like her butt is sexy or something.
And it cracks me up every time because it's this like sexy male narrator.

(17:31):
And he's just like so angry about it.
And she's like stomping into his life, like fucking shit up.
And she's so happy.
And he's just like her sexy little butt.
I'm like, or perhaps his arse or something.
So I do love when when that appears.
And then the baby, Rosalind Lander said it so fast, I was really already listening to
it fast.
I didn't catch it.

(17:52):
And then she remarked on it.
I was like, called her baby.
So then I had to rewind.
And that's my first note.
He called her baby.
So I needed to talk about it.
So good job.
I mean, my first note, I feel like encapsulated a huge part of their entire vibe.
And I love their relationship dynamic, like that that relationship dynamic.

(18:14):
I think this one, he was a little too alpha for me.
Just like as a personal preference.
I don't.
I mean, I think it was done well, and I think by the end of the book, he had gone through
the development that we needed.
I think there was a little bit like I know the heroine said she was falling in love with
him like pretty early on.

(18:37):
And I'm like confusing this with the novella that I'm reading right now.
But I do think there was a little bit more that I needed.
Like to me, this wasn't a five star read.
I think maybe like I would have read this back when it was published, I think because
I hadn't experienced maybe.
Let's just say I hadn't a book like this.
But at this point, we've read a lot like Lord of Scoundrels, where they just go through

(18:59):
so much development in that same dynamic of their relationship.
And like they really exemplify like the grumpy sunshine, like alpha-ness.
So this one just felt a little bit watered down, but it was still compelling.
Yes, I agree.
And the writing was good.
I think it got where I needed it to get.
I would have liked to see him brought to his knees a little bit more explicitly, but I

(19:22):
also do understand that he's not the kind of character that would do that.
I mean, that's why I like to see it happen, because I'm like, Teeheehee, no one else can
do this.
But I do understand.
I feel like she knew him well enough to know that she wouldn't want to have him like prostrate

(19:42):
himself in front of his men that way.
You know what I mean?
Like she wouldn't want him to have to do that in front of his clan.
And so I do want to do that, but I love a grovel.
I love when she was like locked in that house.
She was like, where is Alec?
He's coming.
Where is he?
I do love that.
We're all the same.

(20:02):
When she goes into the lake and he's like, all right, I'm going to make my way over there
because I know full well that water is icy cold and she's going to need help getting
out of it.
And sure enough, she gets a cramp and is like, Alec, and he's already there.
Yeah, like the humor was there and that was really fun.
The humor was there.
It was fun.
And it was definitely like a different dynamic, but it still had like him definitely like coercing

(20:26):
her at the beginning on their wedding night.
There was a moment that his like, I didn't write it down, but it is locked in my brain
and it's I love head hopping.
I love omniscient POV.
I was going to say she did that well in here.
They're at the exact same time.
They're like riding on their horse and she is thinking to herself, like, she's like,

(20:49):
yeah, I think I'll let him kiss me tonight and then I'm going to get to know him and
maybe in a few weeks, then I'll let him take me.
And at the exact same time, he is like, so I'm going to take her tonight.
Why wouldn't I?
Why wouldn't she let me?
And that's why I couldn't dislike him.
I just could not because it was so funny because it was so funny that that you were he was

(21:15):
just like, yeah, I mean, that's what's going to happen.
And like, why wouldn't she be OK?
Or when she thought he was going to let her stay there.
She was like, of course, this is why you I can't believe I didn't get that together earlier.
He's like, no.
Yeah.
So it's like it did it in a way where like I just could not physically be mad at the

(21:37):
shit that was going down.
I mean, I was mad, but I was willing to get you know what I mean?
Like, all right.
I mean, I had since I had already read it before, like I knew it was coming.
And so like, yeah.
And so I was and we've read enough because that that's I don't think I had read really.
I mean, the scene in The Pearl maybe prepared me a little bit because like she's it was

(22:02):
like her first night as a prostitute because she didn't have any money.
And then she picks up this guy who is the hero and I believe a duke.
And then they just have sex in a very like sterile, like unsexy way because she has no
idea what to do and she doesn't really want to be a prostitute.
And he's just this was like his first prostitute since his wife died or something.
It's convoluted.

(22:22):
And then he like realizes she was a virgin, hires her as his nanny.
And it's a whole thing.
Not much development on his side, I don't think.
But we are who we are.
But for this one, I knew this time that it was coming.
So I was like, it's not my favorite.
And I especially didn't like that.
He never kind of got the memo that like she didn't like because he's just kept saying

(22:47):
you want it or like you wanted it.
I mean, I felt like she that didn't bother me.
I felt like she was very obviously like out of pride being like, no, I think by the point
that they actually there was penetration.
Yeah, she was down for it.
So like, it was it was just funny how he went like, he has to wear my plaid and then she's

(23:12):
yeah cold and then he had his plaid on.
He's like, yeah, sneaky.
Come lay down on me.
I think as far as like old school kind of.
Yeah, as far as on con.
Yeah.
Well, but even like, I think I think this could pass in.
I think it might get some heat.
But I think if this was published now, I would probably let it slide just because I think

(23:36):
the only times he really forces her are like kissing her.
And beyond that, she's very clearly and it's again because we're in her head as you say,
not applied to real life situations, which I feel like if you're listening to this podcast,
you already know.
But just in case, please don't take this out of context and think that I'm like, yeah,
but she wanted it applied vibes.

(23:56):
No.
But I think it's a good look where you are getting her perspective and you know that
she is internally very conflicted.
I think the idea is just that she genuinely does not know or like have the ability to
be comfortable with sexuality.
Like where would she have gotten that information?
And so from the from the horse guy.
Yeah, like she needed him to be like, no, you do not want me like I can tell you are

(24:22):
you have this passionate nature.
I can tell and you're in her head, so you know that she's conflicted, but she is like,
oh, this is good, but I shouldn't want it.
But I do like and that I'm much more comfortable with because it was I shouldn't.
But I do rather than like, oh, my God, I genuinely like Mary, Mary, I don't think I wanted to
read a sex scene.

(24:43):
I'm so poor woman.
I don't know what was going on there because I'm like, was that a book somewhere?
Is that a novella somewhere?
Because I don't want to read it.
I don't think so, like I just don't like there was I'm so confused because if you don't
know, if you haven't read the book, her sister also.
So these two dudes, Scottish dudes, whatever dudes are called in Scotland, lairds, lairds.

(25:08):
These two lairds show up because the prince or king or whoever king I believe, decreed
that they were supposed to marry two of this guy's daughters.
And the father was like hiding the heroine away because he wanted her to like sing about
it.
He wasn't really he was badly hiding her away.
He did not.

(25:28):
He only showed up early.
And he was like, hey, come deal with this.
So it's not like he even tried to hide her.
He was just like, oh, no, it started.
So because then he was like sobbing when she so the guys come.
There's this like stable hand guy who has taken it upon himself to be basically the

(25:52):
surrogate parent for the heroine.
And so he's like, well, I don't want her to stay in this house because all she is is like
a Cinderella character who just does all their like chores and stuff because she was like
this like a stepdaughter.
She wasn't his child.
And so you kind of learn throughout that she was never like treated fairly, but she kind
of thinks it whatever.

(26:16):
And so this guy is trying to matchmake and like put her in the path of like the two men
who are coming.
And it was just very funny.
And so then her and her sister, Mary, get chosen.
And then Daniel is like the nice, like amiable one who marries Mary.

(26:37):
And you think like she's super lucky or like at least they thought that she was super lucky
because she gets this guy who's like nice and talk talkative.
And then there's obviously Alec who's grumpy and then, you know, so on and so forth.
And then you find out that Daniel has a mistress.

(26:58):
He was immediately upon getting home.
Like the mistress was there kissing him in front of Mary.
Mary's like, what?
And then she's angry because he doesn't bed her.
And I got that queen.
Yeah, because he was just like, you don't seem comfortable, so I want to give you time.
And he also did not really want to be married.

(27:20):
And so I can only be so mad at him because that man did not want to be married.
Yeah.
Like, and he was very upfront about it.
And also in his defense, she did grab her younger sister and put her in front of her
when armed men were running at them.
And he was pissed about that.

(27:40):
And like, honestly, so was I, because you have the audacity.
I don't care if she's older or younger.
Why are you using your sister as a human shield?
Yeah.
So like, I just think it was a very funny storyline for Mary because like in the romance
novel brain, you kind of want like a like a like a secondary romance to happen.

(28:04):
But then you start hearing out that like he still has the mistress.
Mary's not happy.
And it's a whole thing.
And then at the end, you don't.
Mary's like, I'll just let him keep the mistress.
I don't really care.
Like, as long as he likes me.
I think I mean, I have to assume that she did.
She's very much the pose.
Yeah.
And Daniel and like the route that why am I blinking on the main character?

(28:29):
Jamie's wife could have taken Jamie because she has a man's name.
Like I have to assume it's to be like, yeah, Daniel was on the surface, the nicer looking
one and a little bit of karma.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But looking at Mary's life turned out, whereas Alec is the diamond in the rough.

(28:52):
I thought it was fun, like to just see that layout because it just like felt like there
was so much more in like a romance brain way to like have that be a book.
But yeah, just she was just there.
What a gal.
I would like to go back to my first note because I never actually said what it was, but I think
it exemplifies the other reason that their relationship works for me.

(29:14):
Number one is that he does develop enough by the end of the book for me to be like,
all right, you were a dick in the beginning, but I'll let it slide.
The second is the quote.
He thought he was being most considerate.
She thought he was demented.
And I think that that sums up so well.
Like half of the time, I mean, he is intentionally a dick a lot of the time, but also a lot of

(29:38):
the time it's him genuinely trying to do something nice or like earnestly be like, I'm protecting
my wife.
Like I don't understand.
And she is so livid.
And I love that dynamic of him being like, I do not understand why you were upset.
And she is like, you have the audacity.

(30:01):
I think that the time when she found out that because he had a wife and he was like, the
rumors are that he murdered her.
But then you get terrible and cruel.
But most of them are not true.
Unless the rumors about King Edgar.
That's so which case they are true.
But he's nice guys.

(30:21):
It's fine.
You knew at the beginning that he didn't murder her because you had the POV of what
we later find out is Annie confessing that she like killed now, I think like two people
like one or two like she admitted to some stuff that would have been enough to get her

(30:41):
in jail.
And so I think in news.
So that happens.
So you knew that he wasn't guilty, but you didn't know that his wife had had a daughter.
That's why he ended up marrying her.

(31:02):
Things happened in her life.
It was sad.
And then because he was supposed to originally marry Annie.
We didn't know that he ended up marrying the other sister because he was being a good guy.
And so when Jamie finds out that he has a daughter, and she just like storms off, and
he's like right before that, she was like, he's so kind and so loving.

(31:23):
And then she finds out and she's like, he's the worst.
And that was very funny.
I will say that I wanted more from the child character because that's where I was like
in my Lord of scoundrels mind because she was a little bit of a plot mob.
She didn't say anything.
You had you were told what she said and what she did, but she never actually like well,

(31:43):
to be fair, she didn't know.
But she ended up like a lot of it.
I just because at the point where she was talking and like she was like telling what
happened, like you didn't even get like her recounting of like telling him that Jamie
was like going off.
I actually thought that was kind of funny because it was like she recited word for word.
So I feel like we didn't need to hear it because she recited it word for word, which is kind

(32:05):
of a slay.
I just wanted more from her character because I just thought that that could have been an
opportunity for more.
But I did enjoy that there was a child added.
That's always fun.
And then how immediately he was like so like when she came in, she was like, I wet the
bed.
And then he was like, I don't care.
And then like went and dealt with it.
And Jamie was like, awake but pretending to be asleep, like listening to it.

(32:28):
It was so cute.
I think we need to discuss him being like, ah, yes, time to tell a bedtime story only
to tell the story of like a gruesome battle and have all of the warriors like sitting
around listening to him.
And she's like, you cannot be telling her that.
And he's genuinely perplexed as to why not, which did make me think of how I went to see

(32:52):
Madeline Miller years ago, the author of the song Achilles.
I went to see her at like a signing event thing.
And I have a vivid memory of her telling this story about how her bedtime stories that her
mom would read to her, she would read to her from the Iliad.
And I love the Iliad.
So she said that and I was like, why is that something that not only would I see myself

(33:17):
doing, but I probably will do.
Like I am the kind of person to read to my children from the Iliad before bed, which
if you've ever read the Iliad, you know, battle scenes are like, and then the spear sliced
up through his jaw, severing his tongue and coming out the back of his head and his soul
departed before his body hit the ground, like over and over and over.

(33:43):
And I was like, wow, Alec, you and I, two peas in a pod.
It was again just before that, she's like, oh, that's so sweet.
He's reading to her telling her a story and then she gets closer and he's like, oh yeah,
it chopped off the arm.
And she's like, what?
And you know what?
Slay Alec.
Mm hmm.
He ate that.
Yeah, like everything, like it just to me felt like a solid B, B plus book, but it just

(34:11):
felt like there was always a little bit missing to like really bump it up to like a five star.
Like this would be, cause I would reread it.
Like it was not a bad book.
I enjoyed it.
Yeah.
And again, like I could read it three years later and not really remember, remember much
of it.
So it was like reading it for the first time.

(34:32):
But I'm just so curious to read more of Garwood's stuff.
They seem to get very well reviewed.
I mean, I feel like every romance author, like contemporary too, because a lot of big
contemporary authors love historical romance.
And I feel like every one of them that I've heard talk about like, what are the historical
romances that got you into writing?

(34:53):
They're like, oh, Julie Garwood.
And you can see why, like you can see her style.
And again, like even in Lord of Scandrels.
Where's my voice?
I'm so sorry.
I was like, yeah.
Why am I like a Muppet?
Pinocchio from Shrek?
I'm a real boy.
I'm wearing women's underwear.
It's a thong.

(35:14):
Good.
How could that happen?
Actually you know what?
On that note, on that note, on the Shrek jar note, I put in my review that this reminded
me of like Shrek.
If you made it like an old school romance.
Oh wait, go back.
The last thing I heard from you was on that note, on the Shrek jar note.

(35:36):
That's all you need.
In my initial review of this, I literally mentioned Shrek because I'm nothing if not
consistent.
And I, it's loading.
What are the six degrees of separation between Shrek and the other than the fact that he's
Scottish?
Yeah, I literally just said.
Did I make that up?

(35:59):
No, I feel like I'm right.
Yeah, I mean, well, I said English accent one time in a review and someone commented
that there's no such thing as the English accent.
Okay, shut the fuck up.
Yeah.
Or maybe I said British accent.
They said it's actually an English accent.
I was like, I don't know.
I'm American.
Also shut the fuck up.
Everyone knows what you mean when you say a British accent.
And they were like, well, there are certain parts.

(36:20):
I'm like, how am I supposed to know where this character, like what type?
I'm like, I don't know.
We know there are a million accents from all over England.
There are also a million accents from all over the U.S.
And I get somebody with like an American accent.
Would I be like, OK, but where in America?
Probably.
But also if it's a Brit, I'm like, OK, I get what you mean.
I don't know where Minnesota is.

(36:40):
Maybe sorry to the Brits who do.
I swear half the time it's like a blend of like New York and Texas.
And you're like, well, that's an interesting.
But like, I know what you mean when you say an American accent.
I believe I said I think I said British accent because I was like, well, you speak English.
So like English accent doesn't make sense, but they said it was actually an English.
I don't care about them as a human being.

(37:01):
I have a hard time being corrected.
So it didn't sit well with me for things that really don't make sense.
I was like, I didn't respond.
I'm like, I'm not going to get into a battle on Goodreads.
That's just not my thing.
But like, it's just like, how am I supposed to know what part of England this person's
from with their accent?
Because it was a narrator.

(37:22):
It wasn't even a character.
It was the narrator.
I do not know where this narrator origin originated, not originated.
Sounds sexier.
Originated.
No, no, no, no.
That's a looter.
I don't know.
But in my review, I literally just said this is going to sound so odd, but this book reminds
me of Shrek and Fiona written as two humans featured in true 1980s fashion.
And if there was a rampant murder and lots of sex, maybe Dreamworks would want the rights.

(37:46):
Honestly, I do get that vibe.
It's not a one to one comparison, but I do 100% see the vibe.
Especially Shrek 1.
The vibe that you're talking about.
Yeah.
Where Shrek is just this grunty hero and then Fiona is just kind of waiting for the knight
in shining armor.

(38:06):
There's also like a million side characters that are giving fairy tale creature energy.
It just really, I picked up on it then.
You said it now.
It's true.
It's verified.
One thing, however, that is not similar between the two is my next note, because I'm just

(38:29):
going through to make sure I hit all my points.
And that is that if violent, why sexy?
There's a part the first time that they fight people on the road where he just like rolls
out weaponless.
Number one, hilarious.

(38:50):
What do you mean you're going to go take on four armed dudes?
That even feels like Shrek.
Honestly, that makes sense.
Or Shrek thinking about Fiona.
He's like, you're just going to walk out into the Merry Men and think they're going to be
fine.
Oh my God, I forgot about that.
Oh, Merry Men.
Okay, well, that's iconic.
Rolls out.
But that scene specifically, because the thing about it that really locked that into my brain

(39:19):
is that he does like a battle cry where basically he just roars before attacking them.
And I was like, this would not work if it was a British, an English man.
But if you give me a Scott and you tell me that he roars a battle cry, I'm like, that

(39:43):
kind of works for me.
Why does that kind of get me going?
I can't even.
It's the Viking blood in me.
Yeah, really.
I mean, I'm surges.
My Germanic ancestors are like, yeah, that'll work.
Love Starcraft and just war cries.
I do not love Starcraft.

(40:04):
Me neither.
I never had it.
War cries.
The only other thing I could think of was hiding a pickle on a Christmas tree.
Or like, Kruegen or like Strudel.
I don't know.

(40:24):
Anything with potatoes.
Yeah, no, that's so correct.
But that war cry, that and when he goes and he's like, just keep your eyes on me the entire
time that we're talking to this clan and she's pissed about it, but like it's kind of hot
for some reason.
And he's ignoring her too, so it shouldn't be hot, but it worked.
And they ask what name is your wife called by?

(40:46):
And he takes a dramatic pause and then yells mine.
That did something for me.
I would like that.
It's immortalized next to the sauerkraut and war cry.
Sauerkraut, war cry, and what name is she called by?

(41:08):
Mine.
I was like, oh.
And then when he gets to the...
Something primitive part of my brain was just scratched.
Yeah.
And she was mad about it.
She's like, why didn't he introduce me?
And I'm like, girl, did you hear what he did say though?
The primitive part of my brain isn't always scratched like in these old school schools.
Sometimes I'm just like, dick.

(41:30):
But sometimes it's just, yeah.
Or like even like on their first night when she just like lays on him because she was
like cold and then he like immediately like puts one leg around her and is like, oh God.
I also loved when they got to like his homeland, like his land.
And then she expected him to like introduce her and he's just like, my wife.

(41:53):
And giving...
What was that word you were at?
My wife.
And just leaves and she's like, that's not...
That's so rude of you.
Like I'm a person.
But the part of me was just like his wife.
Iconic though.
Yeah.
And you don't need any more information.
Because then he was like, well, they'll respect you because you're my wife.

(42:14):
And then when she was...
God.
There's so much because then she was asking if she could have some money because she was
going to buy him a gift.
And she was going to buy him like something like out in the shop.
I can't remember what it was.
And then she was like, I'm going to buy you a sword because Daniel had a lot of swords,
but you didn't have a sword when you fought those people.
First she was going to buy him an indulgence.

(42:37):
An indulgence.
An wedding gift, which she then proceeds to buy many of, only for the priest to go put
the money back in the box.
That whole bit was hysterical to me.
The fact that it got to the point where she would just grab a coin every time he annoyed
her.
And then she was like, can you take note of how many people you killed?

(42:58):
Because I need to know.
I need to know how many indulgences to buy.
He's like, no, I didn't kill any of them.
And she's like, I don't really believe you.
I just love when she was like, okay, so then I'm going to buy you a sword too, because
I'm so generous.

(43:19):
And you didn't have one.
And it's kind of a manly thing that you should have.
And I just feel kind of weird about you not having one.
Only for her to see his bedroom, which wall to wall covered in weaponry.
And she looks at it and she's like, I just visualized her looking at them and just being
like, I want one.
I felt the flames in her eyes.

(43:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it was giving slow turns of like, you let me say this stupidest shit to you.
It's giving Katniss in Catching Fire when Joanna is stripping in the elevator and Peta
is like checking her out.
And Katniss's face, she like turns and she like cocks her mouth and she's like, it's

(44:02):
giving that.
You should look it up if you don't know.
I like that she then did also like threaten to kill him in his sleep.
Yeah.
And everybody was like, should we be concerned about that?
And he was like, yeah, like I love all the parts where she was like, he's a very patient
man.
Like I said it before, like he's a very patient man.
And everyone looks around like this guy, or like he's a very funny guy.
And they're like, huh?

(44:22):
And then she like consult him or like talk back.
And he's just like fine with it.
Like that was like the peak of their romance to me.
It was like all of those little things.
It was just the bones.
The bones were good.
The bones were good.
What are my other notes?

(44:43):
Declaring war all the time.
Why are men so dramatic?
The way that that chapter opened with like she then proceeded to start three different
wars.
I could talk myself into giving this five stars.
It's one of those where I could just like count everything that happens.
I think that Annie thing is going to prevent me from ever quite getting it up to five.

(45:07):
But I do understand what you like.
It was just a very silly, like there were serious times and he was a real piece of work.
But the way that everyone was declaring war every five minutes, the way that her sister
was like, hey, my husband is the worst.
Can I stay here?
And she was like, yeah, for sure.

(45:28):
Only for her husband, who is allies with their plan to then declare war.
And then Alec is like, no, like, no, because I don't want your wife either.
Unhinged.
Why were there so many wars?

(45:50):
And then those twins, when she beat the shit out of the wrong twin.
And then that twin got mad.
They declared a war.
Yeah, and tried to declare war on behalf of his brother, who she meant to beat with a
club because he kissed her.
And then she went to go get Alec and Alec was like, I am busy.
And she proceeded to drag a club off the wall and outside.

(46:11):
And Alec was just like, huh, I wonder what that is about.
Alec, what do you think it's about?
You know, this brings me to a lesson.
I had no lesson, but I have not thought of one.
Always get involved in a land war in Scotland.
For the Princess Bride peeps out there or the people who haven't seen Princess Bride
on Reddit.

(46:32):
It doesn't quite hold up for the Scots in the clearances.
Yeah, that's true.
But the British did get involved.
You know, you could argue it turned out all right for them, unfortunately, for the Scottish
people.
For everyone, yeah.

(46:52):
My lesson that I wrote down, we're not done with my notes.
We're going to come back to those.
My lesson is that plaids are the most versatile statement piece.
You want to be sexy?
Plaid.
You want to get warm?
Plaid.
You want to scandalize your wife with your bare bottom knees, as he said?
Why she was like, why is he naked as a baby's butt?

(47:14):
Why are his knees out?
Scottish men's knees are the equivalent part of the body.
So true.
Wear a plaid.
Delicate toes, bare knees.
I just think the plaid lifted, so it carried.

(47:35):
It carried.
There was one, no, no, that was a washrag.
It was a Lindsay Sands.
I was thinking it was his plaid rising when he had an erection.
But he was like taking a bath and then she like throws a washcloth at him and it like
gets caught by his dick.
And like that stuck with me.

(47:55):
You told me this, yeah.
Yeah, that was The Chase by Lindsay Sands.
What a good author.
You need to read Lady Pirate.
I do.
It was that one.
I think it actually that one should be in season three because it's definitely old school.
And the cover and just everything that happens.
I think about it frequently.

(48:17):
And I did go back and read like the last half of that book quite recently because I was
like, I just need to be in that world.
Nothing else was like inspiring me.
And that man who didn't know he was marrying a pirate inspired me.
Well this man didn't know who he was marrying either because Beak Foley was like, yes, she's
a very innocent.
That was funny.

(48:37):
She's a very gentle soul.
She can't ride horses or do things.
That's why like this would really be we should have really started with around roundabouts
of this book for our old school school.
Like if people were like reading along with us and like maybe hadn't read, starting with

(48:58):
Prisoner of My Desire.
We didn't know.
We didn't know.
But like we are educating ourselves.
What a book to start out with, honestly.
Yeah.
This one just I think would be such a good intro to people because it was just so funny.

(49:19):
And like you said, like a good Highlander.
Because it does give you the Highlander like alpha like vibe to get you kind of used to
that.
But then he's also like a teddy bear for us.
He's also just getting dragged all the time.
Yeah.
I think I'm gonna quote where like I think it was the priest who said essentially she's

(49:39):
as flawed as a clear blue sky.
And Alec was like a clear blue sky isn't flawed.
And his response was to a blind man it is.
I was like drag this man.
He doesn't even know he's being insulted.
He's that side eye.

(50:03):
I mean the best movies have the best side characters.
That's true.
This book.
All his little soldiers.
They're like did you have a good nap?
He's like, shut the fuck up.
But watch my wife and make sure she doesn't get murdered.
We're not going to tell her that there's a potential for her to get murdered.

(50:25):
But make sure she doesn't.
The people they were like well shouldn't she know so that she's like on guard?
She's like no.
Meanwhile she's hearing like ominous laughter being locked in rooms when they're like huts
and them getting set on fire.
Nearly and then I forgot about the whole cliff scene.
I was like oh my god.
She gets like pushed off a cliff with Gavin, one of the soldiers and then he's like unconscious.

(50:50):
She like faints to a certain side.
She gets stabbed and she like goes over the cliff with the guy and then they're like on
a ledge.
It was a whole thing.
It was a whole thing.
It's true.
And then at that like it also felt very anticlimactic almost with Annie too.
Not just because you were kind of like god damn it like why.

(51:12):
But I also just felt like well actually no I liked it because then we never think.
We don't know what happened to her.
Yeah that's true.
I liked though how like someone was like I know who it was and he's like I think I know
who it was too or something.
I was like who because I'm me and don't pick up on things.

(51:33):
But yeah you don't really know what.
Because he refuses to tell her.
She's laughing maniacally and then the laughter stops.
Oh yeah.
Well I wonder what happened.
And he comes in and refuses to tell her what he's decided to do with Annie.
Which I had to assume meant he had killed her.
Because she had killed in the past.

(51:54):
She had attempted to kill again and she was laughing about how she was going to keep killing
his wives.
Like I just really think like it could have worked if she just hadn't made her rely on
the like quote quote crazy person.

(52:15):
Because it could have still been a sister who was angry that she was spurned and so
she just like held it in and then like it was festering but then she was able to like
present a nice like affable like front.
And I just don't know why.
I mean I guess to like lead us astray but I just it felt unnecessary.

(52:37):
Okay.
It felt like why are we.
Why?
Why?
Why?
For what purpose?
What do you mean?
Yeah.
Tragic.
Unfortunate.
And then also you get in the last well I had the audiobook sped up but in the in the last
like six minutes the old fiance that was alluded to at the beginning of the book and then you

(53:01):
promptly forgot about and then he showed up and they're like hey he's here and he wants
his money and then everyone just pelts this man with jewels which was like and they're
all like repayment and I'm like crying because she.
Well because they were the ones who would all like.
Right.

(53:21):
Because they were the ones who were like waging war or like declaring war on her and then
because she was like she confessed it all to like the king who was there.
Slave.
Which was hilarious to get first.
She was like talking about all of the things like the wars that she started and she didn't
know that he was the king until he told her to kneel which was just a very funny scene
I can't recreate it unfortunately for those who don't know but it was just so funny to

(53:46):
see like all the people who had declared war then like throw the repayment in.
Or like just anybody who helped and you have a character.
Women.
Who like spent her whole life being sidelined and trying to make her it's giving type two
enneagram energy of like if I'm useful you'll love me and like I have beef with type twos

(54:07):
but in this case it made sense.
I like to think that she became not a type two after this because she no longer felt
like you know to be a woman is to perform but it's okay because she doesn't have to
complete tasks to be appreciated now but she does complete tasks anyway because she wants
to help people.
Where was I going with that?

(54:28):
Oh I was just emotional.
You're declaring war on type two.
I have had issues.
I'm so sorry if you're a type two enneagram but like I'm a type four and we simply we
get along too well and then it all crashes and burns.
It's bad.
I'm on flames.
I have no clue what I am.

(54:48):
What's the enneagram who always takes the test and then promptly forgets what they are
and then has to retake it and gets the like I'm assuming maybe gets the same answer and
then continues to forget.
Well strictly speaking the test can help you like point in the right direction but actually
the enneagram doesn't rely on a test you're supposed to just type yourself.
You're supposed to just research.
There's another one so there's the enneagram and then there's.

(55:09):
There is a test.
There are lots of online tests.
Yeah.
But there are like two.
There's like the enneagram and then there's.
Are you going to make up Myers-Briggs that's fake?
Yeah that.
That's fake.
Yeah well good because I never remember what I am.
I will take the enneagram.
And then I'm like I don't know what that says.
That's not a real thing.
Somebody just made that up.
However I do swear by enneagram and I don't do astrology either because this isn't like

(55:32):
oh you were born at this type of year therefore you're this thing.
This is just like this is what you value and therefore here is like the way that you tend
to act in certain situations and also you can change types and you can like lean different
ways and there are different.
I have a lot of feelings about the enneagram.
The point is she was giving type two energy which means she tried to make herself invaluable

(55:54):
by providing services.
Yeah that's not me.
No.
And I don't want to be dramatic but they are the worst type.
And I speak from very personal experience on numerous occasions.
Y'all ain't shit.
Get a different personality.
I'm so sorry that was really aggressive and if you're type two.

(56:16):
I feel like we need to have like a sleepover or like a steamy lit and just have you like
get all of the like vent all of this.
I just like.
Because what is is type fours are rescue types and type twos are rescuers.
So essentially as a type four one of my unfortunate quirks is that I'm always subconsciously or

(56:37):
consciously looking for someone to save me.
And type twos like to be needed and they like to do things that endear them to people because
they think the only not consciously necessarily but they think that the only way to be loved
is to make themselves useful to someone.
And so they want to be the saver and I want to be saved and you get into this very toxic

(57:00):
relationship where then it all starts to deteriorate very quickly and the type two doesn't feel
appreciated and the type four is confused and it goes poorly.
And I know this from personal experience because I lived with a type two and it went badly
and it all unfolded exactly the way all of the Enneagram things told me that it would.

(57:22):
And so I never doubt the Enneagram anymore.
Wow.
I sound like a fanatic but that girl was the worst.
So I now want to like evaluate everyone.
It's so much fun.
My best friends and I like figured out what we are and we I had gotten a book actually
ironically from that type two roommate.
She gave me a book one year that was like a big dictionary of Enneagram things and bring

(57:45):
it to steamy red even though it's probably like 10.
It's hefty.
It's fine.
We can just use the internet.
The internet exists but we spent hours like reading it and typing each other and going
through all that.
It's interesting.
Anyway, she's a type two but I like to think that she developed past that now that she
no longer needs to like compulsively make herself useful to be appreciated.

(58:10):
What would Alec be?
Or Jamie?
He might be a one, two, because we got to tie it back somehow.
He's not a two.
He's not a three, four.
Oh, I bet he's an eight.
Eights are super confrontational.

(58:31):
Yeah.
The only other one that I could think he might be is a one.
Ones are they're very like they have a really strong moral code.
They have like they want to do what is right.
Yeah I don't feel like that.
But no, I think he's a character.
I can never remember.
I only knew like one type eight person that's not a personality type.

(58:55):
They're called the challenger.
They're self-confident, strong and assertive, protective, resourceful, straight talking
and decisive but can also be egocentric and domineering.
Come on.
Wow, you just pulled that right out of a hat.
I mean I googled it.
Well, I know on that but you pulled type eight.
Well, there's only nine types.
I just said that's nine to know.

(59:17):
You remembered them all.
I mean some of them.
Okay, if you google type two without adding any gram, you will get diabetes.
That is believable.
And it's good.
You should if you're typing that in.

(59:38):
I really think she's a type two, the helper.
They want to be loved to express their feelings for others to be needed and appreciated.
It says they're empathetic, sincere and warm-hearted, friendly, generous and self-sacrificing but
can also be sentimental, flattering and people pleasing.
The only thing is she seems like a healthy two.

(01:00:00):
Because that can be like when you are on the worst side of things.
That's when you get into like the things that I was talking about where you're putting other
people's problems before yours and relying on that.
But if you're a healthy type two, you can just genuinely be somebody who likes being
of service and is very empathetic.
You're so right though because it's always like the older sibling.
She was a younger sibling but like she was cast in an older sibling typical.

(01:00:22):
So like you always see it in the books where they're always like sacrificing themselves
or they're always like choosing their siblings or their family over like love at the like
80% mark.
And that's what are you doing.
You're right.
You're right.
I have a grudge against fictional type twos.
That could just be like a self-sacrificing thing.
Like any type could do that.

(01:00:44):
But it's those characters that are constantly.
Yeah.
But those are the ones that I really dislike in books.
Because I'm just like I in multiple reviews I'm like I think I'm just selfish but like
couldn't be me.
And it really wraps me the wrong way when I read too much of that kind of character.
A lot of heroines are type twos.
I think a lot of them are type fours which is funny because type four is supposedly a

(01:01:07):
very rare type but were they individualists.
So we care about like authenticity and being like unique and true to ourselves.
And I feel like that fits a lot of the quirky.
Yeah that was definitely me if not now as a like a kid throughout my life.

(01:01:27):
I thought I was so well I mean to be fair you're not supposed to type yourself as a
kid or like really as an early teen because it changes.
Yeah I've grown up like I was like I can't wear uggs.
I feel like that's just a teenage thing though.
Like I think no kid wants to be like everybody else.
I think a lot of like those quirky heroines might also be fives are like knowledge driven.

(01:01:53):
So they tend to be more introverted but they want to understand everything.
And that gives a lot of quirky heroine vibes.
I feel like a lot of heroes are type one or type eight.
Type one is going to become a new segment.
Yeah it is.
I'm yeah I okay look I love any of you're not supposed to any of Graham's type other
people but I feel like it's different with characters because you're inside their brain.

(01:02:14):
And I have a lot of feelings about it.
Well a lot of heroines are type nine too.
They're peacemakers.
Oh gosh yeah.
Well we have uncovered a treasure trove.
It is a treasure trove because you know who you don't see a lot in romance is threes and
sevens.
Well threes may be more on the hero side I could see.

(01:02:36):
Threes are they base their person out or like their sense of self-worth off of their achievements.
And I feel like you see that in heroes more than heroines although even then I don't I
can't think of any type three heroes off the top of my head.
I feel like they tend to be more ones where like they have a very strict moral code.
Achievements yeah that's hard because a lot of times when there's like a hero who's like

(01:03:02):
driven to like achieve things it's so like spite someone or to like like if their father
was like a wastrel they will like strive for perfection.
But even then that's more type one though.
Exactly because it's not like it's not they don't want to have to like they didn't choose
this life for themselves.
It's like.
Oh you know who it is.

(01:03:22):
It's the it's the the self-made man heroes.
It's the Lisa Klepitz capitalist heroes.
Those are type threes.
And then sevens I don't know a lot of sevens but they are like constantly seeking like
adventure and things to do.
They want to be going out and doing things and experiencing things and I feel like that's

(01:03:44):
not that I have never seen it.
They feel more to me like five.
I'm doing hand things.
Book three hero.
Grantham.
I don't know what he would be.
I don't remember enough of his character.
I just remember Sheila kept describing him as like the golden retriever kind of like.

(01:04:07):
Maybe he's not very adventurous.
Can't sit still I always think that.
Well the movie.
Yeah that's hard.
I feel like threes and sevens I don't have really a ton off the top of my head.
Most of the other types I can see.
Fours actually are a little bit harder because fours tend to be portrayed pretty badly in
media in my experience.

(01:04:28):
Stay tuned for a series of us giving you recommendations based off of the any of them.
You're gonna have to do a bunch of research.
Yeah.
We're gonna come back and start talking about subtypes.
Wow.
So what are fours?
The individualists.
We are afraid of because most of the types you identify them based on their core desire

(01:04:51):
and their core fear.
Fear.
Well that's like a romance book.
That's so true.
Huzzah.
So like I happen to be on the type two website I mean page right now and so like their basic
fear is of being unwanted or unworthy of being loved.
And so their basic desire is to feel love.
Like those two things go hand in hand.

(01:05:14):
Tell me.
Tell me why.
Type four.
Our basic fear.
Yeah.
The basic fear of fours is that we have no identity or personal significance.
And the desire is to find themselves and their significance and to create an identity.
Where is my significance?
Who am I?

(01:05:37):
I'm gonna put a dollar in the musical theater jar.
You have a Shrek jar.
I have a musical theater jar.
Love that for us.
Everybody go research the Enneagram.
Type yourself and then have fun typing all of your favorite characters because I have
spent a lot of time and energy dedicated to that over the years.

(01:05:58):
If I can remember because I you know like hit like I schedule these and then like I
don't look back.
So then with Spotify you have to like log into Spotify for podcasters then you have
to go in and add a poll or like a question box.
Maybe for some reason I think of it.
I'll put one in there to tell us your Enneagram type or your character.
Whoever you think would be whatever.

(01:06:20):
Yeah I'm locking in my answers.
Jamie is a two.
Alec is an eight.
Based on what you've told me since I know nothing else I will also agree.
Yeah but then you can get into wings which is like which wings.
Yeah so it's a circle one through nine is a circle.
And so you lean if I'm a four I can lean three or I can lean five.

(01:06:43):
And the way that your type presents can shift depending on which way you lean.
So like five wing fours sorry four wing five tend to be a little bit more introverted.
Like we don't need to show the world that we have a unique personality.
Whereas type like four wing three which is what I am were a bit more in your face if

(01:07:10):
you will.
We're a bit more social a bit more flamboyant.
A bit more I will make Instagram recommendations.
A bit more.
I'm gonna.
Because I am the expert.
Yeah pretty much.
Pretty much.
And then you get like triads and subtypes and things so it's a whole thing.

(01:07:33):
It's a whole thing.
Well this is open to can of worms.
You're so welcome.
Right at the end of the season.
Really.
Tune in next season.
Honestly I don't know in the outro portion of this episode I don't know how much books
for the holidays Ima have read.
I don't think we're gonna end up doing a holiday specific.
I don't think so.
I think we're just gonna end up doing like round up.

(01:07:56):
I think that makes my life easier because I was like I don't.
Yeah I've got like no desire.
We just took an hour and a half detour to basically talk about everything and nothing
and you're gonna get that as a special Christmas gift to you later.
Somehow it's a Christmas episode.

(01:08:16):
It starts out with Christmas movies.
Yeah.
And a lot of reenactments of just quotes from Christmas movies.
It features two really excellent impressions from me.
One of Cliff from Home Alone 2.
And one of the adults from Peanuts.
So you have that to look forward to.

(01:08:38):
She had really good impressions guys.
I was kind of like gagged a little bit.
You were gagged on the second one.
Why are you so good at this?
It was really good.
Like you could have put her in that movie, any of those short films, like I would not
have known.
It was her moment.
It's because I actually am the adults from Peanuts.

(01:08:59):
That's my spirit.
That's her spirit.
So we did that.
So you will hear that eventually.
It's like an hour and a half.
It's long.
It's non-credits.
Yeah.
If you listen to the episode you'll get it.
There are some book recs.
There's some other recs.
You see a few.
I tried my best.
From two people who just don't want to be reading holiday romances right now, we did

(01:09:23):
our best.
We did.
So to wrap up this one, Plaid is a statement piece and it's always a good idea to start
a land war in Scotland.
Yeah, because you'll have a hot Scottish husband by the end of it.
I mean what other lessons do we even need from 2023 old school school?

(01:09:47):
We'll be back for our various end of year wrap ups and for that random special Christmas
gift episode.
If you have any old school school ones that you want to see us read next season.
And if you have strong feelings about superlatives that you would like for us to give away.

(01:10:09):
Please have strong feelings about superlatives.
We did it last year.
You can check out last season's episode to get a feel for it.
We'll probably post a newsletter.
We can send out requesting there too because we have that now.
We haven't posted enough.
Look, and that's on me.
We could do like holiday novellas.
But I've also been like we could and then I just don't.
Yeah, life is crazy guys.

(01:10:32):
So who knows?
That's not a commitment.
But yeah, so let us know for this year, next year, whatever you want to see us do.
If there's like a book you've been like dying for us to cover.
Okay, well, ho ho ho, our hoes, our throbbing members.

(01:10:55):
Our throbbing members.
Okay, we'll see you for our- we'll see you.
You'll hear our voices for the end of wrap up 2023.
I don't know, I started this sentence without knowing.

(01:11:20):
Don't you leave.
Oh no.
The bell does not dismiss you, we do.
Oh no.
Oh no.
Flashbacks.
Yeah, nothing induced my rage like the bell does not dismiss me, we do.
So I apologize.
I have power issues like I have with authority.
I always wanted to be like no, the bell does dismiss us.

(01:11:42):
That is why the bell is there.