S03.10: Romance Your TBR in Love (with Eloisa James)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, we are live.

(00:03):
Guys, this is crazy.
Very exciting.
Not just Caroline and I today.
It is a special day because we have Eloisa James, as you probably see from the title.
We are so excited.
Eloisa, I guess you can just introduce yourself and take from there.
Thanks, Hannah.
I'm Eloisa James and I write historical romance.

(00:27):
I've been writing historical romance for a long time, so I'm kind of feeling like a dinosaur these days just because of the length of my career.
I'm also a Shakespeare professor, so I've kind of got two things going at the same time.
Oh, love.
I mean, I could tell that from this book, The Shakespeare.
I was a theater major and I was eating up all the Shakespeare in this.

(00:48):
Everybody coming love.
Well, I try to just have you don't just in case anyone's afraid, you don't have to know any Shakespeare just sort of leaks in because I teach it every day.
I feel like that's the theme for historical romance.
People think you have to know all these things before you read it and then you really don't.
You can kind of just go in blind.

(01:09):
But then if you do know, it's fun.
But yeah, the show has changed a lot over the years.
Yeah, that's I think we're interested in like that because obviously you said you've been writing for so long.
And I mean, we've read your earlier books and we've read Viscount in Love.
And so I think it's just so fascinating to see the experience of writing a book 10 years ago, verse today, or what the genre feels like now, opposed to then, or what you could maybe get away with or what readers wanted then, verse now.

(01:43):
Right. Well, those just go 10 years is nothing. Let's try 1999.
OK. Yeah.
So when I wrote Potent Pleasures, it came out in 2000.
And I mean, it was the Wild West compared to now.
It really was. So I'm following all those books that you read last year, like The Flame and the Flower or the really foundational ones.

(02:05):
So those are earlier.
And then by the time you get to, you know, 1999, 2000, there is a really established readership, a huge readership.
You know, Julia Quinn is publishing a lot. Lisa Klepas is selling, you know, tons of books.
Very, very popular.
And I wrote a book in order to pay off my student loans because I loved your romance.

(02:29):
I was like, I'm going to write me a stroke of romance. I'm going to pay off my student loans.
And it actually worked. It was an option.
And it sold for a couple thousand dollars over my student loans.
And I just have to add as a professor here that in the past, you didn't have the student loans that kids have.
So but I mean, I was very grateful. I had to write three books for that.

(02:51):
But but I, you know, you could write whatever you wanted.
Like there was no there was no there was much less attention to subjects was much less attention to how people behave.
There was, of course, no question about consent or diversity or any of the things that your generation is extremely interested in and has brought to prominence in really wonderful ways.

(03:21):
And so my focus veered between being historically accurate.
So like my hero in Potent Pleasures is convinced that his wife was adulterous.
So he actually calls her a whore.
You know, he had the right historically to kill her and he would have got off.

(03:43):
She was adulterous. But anyway, I just read these things and I was like, well, I don't like men in a night shirt.
That's gross. So I put him in pajamas.
Of course, the genesis didn't even exist at the time, but I was like, oh, I was going to say the night.
Yeah, the night. Oh, I'm bored.
No, that's not sexy.
You know, after I got the raft of letters saying your hero is absolutely unhistorical.

(04:08):
He never would have been in pajamas.
And he calls his wife that I realized that historical romance was existing in this really interesting moment.
I would say for that first decade when I was writing, when readers were super interested in historical fact,
I mean, I would have a conversation on the ballroom floor about like the discovery of the polls.

(04:29):
And somebody would write me an email and say, hey, that happened six months before that conversation on the bar.
I'm like, whoa.
But at the same time, and this was less than forever.
Yeah.
So it's not a historical romance like contemporary romance. It doesn't matter when it's written.
It has to reflect our current sexual mores.

(04:50):
It has to reflect what's going on between between people now, men, women, women, women, whatever it is.
Doesn't matter. So I even though I was trying to be historically accurate there as a Shakespeare professor,
thinking, oh, he has the right to kill her because, you know, yeah, my readers didn't like that.
Like, one star, five star, one, one, one, five stars.

(05:12):
Yeah. Yeah. I used to read Amazon.
It was very early days of Amazon and cry.
My husband, no more Amazon. No more.
So, I mean, I mean, they're still having to write incredibly detailed, like,
author's note at the end of books, trying to, like, explain away, like, six months difference of like when something was invented or something happened.

(05:36):
I mean, I know truly nothing about much of history, so I'm just going in having a good time.
But, yeah, I do think it would be hard, like, if you knew all that stuff to kind of separate.
But again, I mean, again, this Duke has all his teeth and hygiene and, you know, is hot.

(05:58):
Yeah, he's like young, hot, marriageable. Yeah. We'll throw it away for this.
I don't know. I sort of I'm moving away from the historical note.
I mean, just and so if you just look at the last 10 years, then a lot of things have changed in terms of consent.
But they've also changed in terms of how people read romance.
They used to read historical romance and they wanted historical fact. Right now, I feel like where historical romance is at the moment.

(06:27):
We do want to be in the past. Right. Yeah.
It's so refreshing not to be reading about, you know, COVID, Biden or whatever.
It doesn't even matter how to talk about global warming. That is not a cheery subject for romance.
So it's great to be in the past. At the same time, you'll have noticed from the historical note in Viscount, I made it much more personal.

(06:49):
I feel like romance writers now, you're able to just say, hey, this is my book.
Here's where I took it. Here's what I was thinking of.
Here's why I took, you know, here's why I was referring to, you know, my mom or my dad or my child or whatever, whatever.
Because it used to be that the book was almost like something that was supposed to exist apart from you.

(07:11):
You know what I mean? And you you defeated the reader somehow if you didn't have all the details right.
I don't get that sense from readers at all anymore. I get much more of a personal sense.
So so just to give you an example, I mean, it's historical romance, right?
It's not contemporary romance. Yeah. It isn't wallpaper, but it comes out of normal life.

(07:38):
So like I had a student last year who was diagnosed with dyslexia.
And I teach in college, right? I teach at Fordham University.
And I was so shocked because I just thought he was a bad speller.
And, you know, I was like, you're a bad speller, you spell check.
And then he was and then they were like, oh, no, he's dyslexic.
And I started thinking how hard it would have been in 1804 if you're dyslexic, everyone to simply think you're stupid.

(08:04):
So I think something like that is really fascinating core for historical romance now, because it echoes what's happening now.
Why do we say somebody is, you know, why do we denigrate people?
Why do we look down on people? It's often something that we don't totally understand,
in a physical condition that we don't understand or, you know, an inbred race prejudice that we have or something.

(08:30):
You see what I mean? So I could use that as a way of being in the past, but in the present.
Well, that's why I think I really loved this book, because there was like a drastic change from start to finish,
especially for Dom in like how he understood Tori and her dyslexia.
I mean, like, I feel like a lot of books nowadays don't necessarily change. They're pretty static.

(08:52):
I feel like a lot of characters. But this one was just so fun to read because I was like, do I like him?
And then I was like, actually, I love him. But I was like, kind of I hate him.
And like it was like back and forth, which it was so fun because like I was just like Tori,
like I was like feeling like her being like, OK, he's really hot.
But also he's kind of mean right now. He's really hot.

(09:13):
So it was just so fun because I felt that like he had work to do and he did it,
which I just frequently I see sometimes the work not being done, especially on page.
I mean, Hannah and I have had this conversation so many times of like, I think because there are so many readers
like who are just approaching romance in a different way where they don't they will immediately if the characters are not good people right away,

(09:39):
they will be like, I hated this idea enough to one star. And that's so frustrating because I love a character who starts out not good
and then has that character. And I mean, you know, Dom is good in the sense that he's moral and upstanding and he's doing his best.
But like he has his issues and so does Tori. And so I just yeah, I also with Hannah was eating up that like character arc of, you know,

(10:01):
he has work to do and he's going to have to do really work on himself to get himself to a place where he like deserves Tori.
I also can I just like bring us back for our readers who haven't read this book yet.
I would love to get just like your I guess elevator pitch. Tell them a bit like what's the book about.
OK, so the book is about a Viscount who's betrothed to the perfect young lady who speaks French and could do French plays and is so intellectual and so smart and so wonderful.

(10:30):
And he inherits two deeply eccentric orphans who, for example, start making up a list of all the things you're not allowed to talk about in polite society,
which, of course, they instantly are going to be talking about. And they are writing horrendous stories about a serial killer,
which, by the way, I totally stole from my daughter at age 11. Those are her stories that are quoted there.

(10:51):
And and so his perfect fiance is like, I want nothing to do with this. And she elopes with someone else.
Spitzbot. And so he ends up blackmailing her father into allowing him to marry a younger sister.
Right. But Tori can't read because she's dyslexic and they did not understand that at the time.

(11:13):
One of the most fascinating things I learned was that dyslexic people often can write in blue ink if they can't write in black ink, you know, so she can only sign the marriage papers in blue ink.
So I learned a lot about dyslexia. But he all society thinks she's stupid.
At the same time, all society thinks she's a lady. The only thing she's allowed to paint because she's a painter because she can't read or write is rabbits and bunnies and and kittens and flowers.

(11:41):
Right. I got really interested in this. And I don't want to I don't want to blow the end for you, but I will say it's a spoiler free episode.
Spoiler free episode. One of my favorite emotions when reading a romance is a sense of comeuppance.
And when you guys are talking about it doesn't happen on the page, he doesn't get better. What's being denied to us, in my opinion, is comeuppance.

(12:05):
Because if we think of ourselves as Tori at the end, we need a really big grovel that is that is based in like he learned something he learned he changed.
And then there is a twist in that grovel at the end, which I also really like because she too had things to learn everyone's got stuff to learn we all need to learn to do better, you know, in our own ways.

(12:26):
Oh comeuppance. Yeah, Hannah's nodding because that's her. I'm more forgiving Hannah is like if the villain or whoever doesn't get their comeuppance. Oh, she's mad.
Yeah, I love that and I just all the little things that he did throughout the book.
Oh, just thinking about him. Yeah, I was just thinking, I'm a huge Teresa Madeiros fan.

(12:48):
And so like reading her books set in like 1999, or like published 1999. I think she has like a breath of magic. I don't know if you've read.
Yeah, no, Terry's one of my close friends I've read them all. Okay, well I love her too.
With the Puritan witch and the 90s billionaire I thought that was the funniest thing. But whenever I pitch that book to people I have to be like here is like an article maybe why like it could be problematic and all that like I have to kind of like set it up.

(13:22):
And so I guess just like when you go about writing a book today do you think about, you know readers reactions in that regard or is it more so just like natural as you as you've changed with the times and stuff.
I'm kind of lucky because I teach, you know, I teach 1920 21 year olds like I hear what they think about Romeo and Juliet every freaking day. Right. I teach a lot of Shakespeare and pop culture so we do not just you know Romeo and Juliet but we do all the movies

(13:54):
and then we do advertisements and then we do rewriting so I hear a lot about, you know about sex I also read a huge amount of romance. I mean I don't read historical romance because I have a leaky voice and I don't want to pick anyone else's up but I read a ton of
romance. I mean at the moment, like I'm obsessed by Ali Hazelwood just like I just got the new book and I'm letting myself only read a little bit. After chapter, chapter, you know, whatever, but lots of people.

(14:26):
And I think I learned a tremendous amount from that. I mean anytime I've someone comes up to me now like I really want to read romance and write romance.
As a reader you can definitely tell people. I mean like just in my life, I am a nobody in the romance but like they're like are you going to write a romance I'm like I haven't read enough.

(14:57):
And they're like you read so much I'm like yeah but there's so much there's so much romance I have not nearly read enough to be able to do what I would ever want to do. And again you don't need to like be great to do what you love or what you would want to do.
I think that obviously the best writers are readers. And it's just it's very clear when an author enjoys what they're writing and knows the genre.

(15:22):
And it's clear and they don't know the genre. Yeah. Yep. Or when TV producers don't know the genre or show producers things like that. I don't know I would say if you want to write just write.
I mean do what I did. Like I had never heard a point of view. I never took a creative writing class right. I was taking like Shakespeare classes. So when my first reviews came in they were all like she's head hopping she doesn't understand POV.

(15:47):
I remember sitting there going what is POV. What are they talking about. No idea what they're talking about. But the thing is my I was head hopping everyone had a point of view.
I would enter in potent pleasures. He had a point of view for a paragraph and then someone else had it. But it didn't matter. That book sold and it came out in hardcover because it doesn't matter if you're reading lots of romance and you're loving them.

(16:09):
And it's giving you an idea for characters that you would love to put on the page. Just freaking do it. I mean my biggest piece of advice is that I write utter crap in the first.
I mean sometimes I think if I die now and somebody thinks they're going to take this would be so humiliating if this was my last book. I saw my husband Alice in her and I'm like don't ever let anyone into my laptop.

(16:32):
You're not going to die. But I mean it had that sense with every single book.
I used to say Lisa I used to say Lisa plays as Lisa again to the end of this book if something happens you have to finish it for me because she's such a beautiful writer. But now I'm more like OK you know whatever.
I'll probably survive to be in the book. It's so funny about POV though. The point yeah the point about head hopping is so funny to me because I love head hopping but it feels like it's a lost part.

(17:01):
The like more contemporary writers who like started newer stay away from it. And it feels like a little bit more of a like kind of old school like older historical romance thing and very few people do it and do it well now.
And this is a book where I was out I was eating it up. I love the head hopping.
But that's so interesting that people immediately were like oh she doesn't understand POV as if that hadn't been like an established fit like you were not the first person to do that.

(17:30):
No but I did I didn't understand POV actually right. I didn't know what they were talking about. I mean I really didn't. You know now I know things like OK you know if you're switching in a scene the person who has the biggest emotion should be the one whose head you're in right.
Or if you're talking about come up and you want to be in his head at the moment when she's making mistakes because that's so delicious for the reader like I love watching them make mistakes or you want to be in the heroine's head when he's making mistakes because you want her indignation and her rage and her like oh he's such a you know whatever.

(18:03):
So you're dividing where you want to be but it's just such a it's so much fun to figure out where you want to be in a chapter. I do find that I go you know I maybe switch point of view once in a chapter now I don't do every paragraph because readers are much less able to follow us now.
I think we read faster. Yeah read faster and also there's much more of a wish for a very intense hero and heroine. I always used to have a second romance going on and I often had girlfriends with a point of view.

(18:38):
I mean I was there you know early in my career was like okay Eliezer Redd's girlfriends that's very hard to manage now because I just don't have enough space so Clara got one chapter in Vicon in love because I love Clara and her ridicules.
Yes.
They were so vivid in my head I know I mean Hannah can't visualize that way but I have a those are ridiculous.

(19:03):
Oh they're in my brain. Just to explain for readers Clara is Tori's best friend and she makes ridicules which are little bags in the shape of animal faces.
So like a little mouse or a cat with proper wire whiskers stick out the side and spoiler alert. If she needs to she could stick somebody with those whiskers.

(19:25):
One of my favorite books of yours is How to Be a Wallflower but I could not I was like I need like a fashion book to go along with this thing because like I just could not picture anything.
I'm so bad at it because I just can't and so I'm like I just need someone to draw all these beautiful outfits up and I need to see all these crazy colors and I was like I just need it.

(19:48):
Well are the ridicules are those like based on any like historical things you've seen or was that like a brainchild you're just a genius. Okay. You're just a genius. I love it.
Clara came to life right. So Clara is the heroine of my next book and I mean I gotta say I love Clara. I absolutely love her.
So I think you know one of the wonderful things that's happening in romance now is there's so much more breadth of space for heroines. They don't all have to be super clever all the time and super aggressive and super feminist.

(20:20):
You know we can have all different kinds of people and Clara is not like you know she's not sparky super witty.
She likes making her ridicules and she's best friends with Tory because they're both kind of written off as loose. You know Clara's plump and she likes making cat face bags. You know you see exactly where she is like I know lots of people like that.

(20:46):
She's the wonderful person.
Yeah I feel like I love seeing the differentiation and heroines throughout books and authors and stuff because you know there's like the blue stocking or the wallflower like that's like the two but there's so much in between that and I do love a very other like quiet heroine but not necessarily a wallflower or one who really does want a family and that's not a bad thing because it's really a dichotomy of like they either don't want to go by society's conventions or they're like very primitive.

(21:17):
They're very prim and proper but they still maybe don't. So I think it's very fun to experiment with different character types. So is there like a favorite one that you have rather like a hero or heroine or are you just like does it take like the creativity just like take you whenever you start a book or do you know like what you want to?
Do you have to develop them as people right? So you do a lot of waking up in the middle of the night and having conversations with them that will never go on paper ever and then over months they develop into somebody.

(21:50):
I think I write sort of witty educated women very well so like the Desperate Duchess series you know they're playing high level chess that you know not that you have to know anything about chess but again little historical fact a chess game was the only time when a man and woman could be alone together in a room without a chaperone because it was considered an intellectual exercise.

(22:17):
They actually in the Middle Ages used to play chess in the ladies bedchamber.
You can't tell me lots of stuff what's going on during that.
I remember chess in the chess and yeah.
Yeah, it was sex you know chess became the symbolism of sex right it was the metaphor for sex but I mean people like that people like as they made the Duchess and love series and really loved her. I write women who I want to be friends with right.

(22:47):
But now, I feel like I have more freedom to write that I think that readers will love reading about Claire, you know, like I read romances now but all kinds of people. My next year I think it's going to be, which I've done before but you know sort of a little bit divergent and and intellectually

(23:11):
divergent not straight out autism, but I mean I've done that before but only in a minor key. Right. But now I you know you could really write it.
And that's something I have in my family so I can really see it I, you know, I know it. So, son. Yeah, it's really yeah so fun as an author to be able to just have that space.

(23:36):
Yeah, nowadays to be able to do really what you want.
As opposed to it would be just thinking about because I mean I was not reading historical romance you know 1020 years ago.
So it is interesting to go back just in today's age and then see just from what I can like, get from people's, you know stories and stuff.

(24:02):
I mean I'm just so happy that I found historical romance. I mean you are one of the first authors that I read so this is a very surreal moment.
So, when beauty tame the beast, I just I can't crack when I just think about that book sometimes and just laugh.
So fun.
Do you have a favorite trope to write.

(24:24):
Or like Beauty and the Beast, whatever.
Beauty and the Beast. I mean I like Beauty and the Beast. I really like Cinderella. I really like forced marriage. I mean nowadays grumpy sunshine is so much fun and of course that is a pervasive thing in the Vyckon.
You know so, but there's so many great tropes like Clara when you get to Clara is naked layered in the stream.

(24:48):
Yes.
I love that.
It's like Scotland is still down to where you most want to see.
I want to make it layered in the stream.
Make it layered in the stream. He's fishing by the way. He does have a reason for being in the stream.
Why would you make your pleats out on your quilts if you didn't have to.

(25:11):
Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh.
I have a question for you guys because you're reading all kinds of stuff right.
Are you reading any what I would call gothic adjacent books, you know sort of gothic romance but maybe historical romance with a gothic twist.
I mean we have we have gabbled. Yeah, which was really good.

(25:37):
Vincent Virga's Gawick was like 1980 or something. Yeah, it was really early.
I've read Erica Ridley has a gothic historical romance series that I've read a few in.
I'm really big into like historical paranormal like I love that. So I feel like those kind of just inherently lean gothic.

(26:00):
But I don't just really know where to find. Yeah, I think that's kind of a blind spot. I mean the Teresa Medeiros the vampire ones are some of our favorite books.
Yeah, which I think lean very gothic. Are they really I'm going to tell you that.
He's really that hurts my feelings so badly because as a reader now I hate readers back then who let like Cressley Cole's like historical romance series like go unfinished.

(26:24):
I believe Teresa has an I'm like I just can't. It's like it's after midnight. Is that the first one. Yeah, the blue one.
I think that was my first of her books and I was like give me a word right now injected into my veins.
Every book I read by her. I'm just like I can't. I'm totally going to tell her that she's going to love it. Good.
She had this great idea. It was so original. It was so different.

(26:46):
And then readers just didn't want to combine vampires and Regency.
You know, arguably one of the most creative writers, right? Those readers are our personal emissies now.
Well, what was that book? It was Anne Mallory.
For the Earl's pleasure, I believe and I do understand where people were confused because nowhere in the summary said that that man was a ghost.

(27:10):
But personally, I would love to start a book and not know that the hero is going to be a ghost in like 15 pages.
Looking back at all the reviews because Anne Mallory is one of my new like favorite obsessions because of that book.
All the reviews are like I can't believe this is a paranormal book. They're so angry. And meanwhile, I'm just so happy that that man was turned into a ghost and only she can see him.

(27:36):
And like it was so fun. And so it just the whole paranormal historical intersection is incredibly fun to me.
Like whenever I go to a used bookstore, I automatically like try to find those because they're so hard to find like online.
You can't really Google like you get the few historical like the bigger ones, but there are so many that like just don't get any keyword searches in Google.

(28:01):
And so I'm like in the archives, I feel like looking for those.
Catherine Kingsley. Have you ever read anything by her? I don't know. I don't think so. It's KK, Catherine Kingsley. She was out there original and she wrote one where the hero is literally Jesus.
And he can do miracles, right? Yeah.

(28:27):
She was very famous. And he for going to like romance conferences with a parrot on her shoulder. Anyway, you might really like hers. I thought she was great. I thought she was so original.
I haven't read one in a long time. So forgive me if they're offensive in any way. But no, I love that.
I would love to come back to the Gothic adjacent and see what your recommendations for that are because that is a space that I am interested in, but just have not like really found, I think.

(28:55):
I haven't found it. I mean, so here's my idea. Okay. So if you look at the Gothic, you know, the genre of Gothic, right? There's always it's really from the female point of view, often in the first person, she can't trust your own senses.
She's in danger, like in some house, and she's isolated and she doesn't know who to trust. So did you guys read The Bride? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ali Hazza, What's The Bride? I haven't read it yet.

(29:22):
I was thinking, I was thinking, yeah, Terana Lindsay is the bride. No, I haven't. But I've seen like a lot, I feel like about it.
It's basically a Gothic, right? The heroine's a vampire. She has to go live with the werewolf. She doesn't know who to trust. The hero is the only one she can trust. And, you know, I have to say she's very witty. So it's a lot of fun.

(29:43):
And I was reading that and thinking I would really love to do that. The thing is, I'm not sure I want to go to first person. That's why I'm kind of asking everyone if they know anything about the P.J.
Because I'm thinking I might make up my own genre. Like, I would like to have my heroines, a two book series that I'm pitching right now. Right. So I'm testing it out on you guys. We're on board already. Yeah. Totally isolated in Scotland, because why not? Right.

(30:15):
Isolated, unable to trust people. The hero is there. One of them is this neurodivergent guy. But I don't want to have real ghosts, I think. And I want to have I want her to make fun of it. So would that destroy the whole Gothic thing? In other words, you have to be really scared to truly to be enough of a Gothic.

(30:39):
Or would it just be fun to be almost? I don't think you do. I think you get that inner textual like playing with the Gothic genre, even if it doesn't technically like it's not fully Gothic, but you're in conversation with.
I mean, I would love that. I love a little like poking fun at genre conventions. I'm trying. I really feel like I've read.
So not that, but something that does like kind of what you're talking about, like a like poking fun at the Gothic conventions. Well, because there's literally the only thing I know of is Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey. Well, I love Northanger Abbey.

(31:11):
So I do. So I just reread it and I was like, yes, this is fabulous. I would. So I'd up a Northanger Abbey vibes inspired historical romance. I'm on board.
So you guys are mainly reading historical romances that I. It's your greatest. It is our greatest. It's what we talk about. Yeah. But it's not the only thing we're reading.

(31:36):
I started reading YA romance, you know, long time ago. So I read that and I didn't know adult romance existed.
I literally had no clue. I don't know what I was doing. And then I think my mom had be treated by Emily Henry on Libby and she's like, oh, I think you'd like that. So then I read that. And then I read a few.
E.B. Dunmore bringing down the Duke was the first historical romance I'd ever come in contact with. And that was great. But I had no clue what to do with that.

(32:08):
I was like, where else to go after that? Besides just waiting for her next book? Because I was not online. Like, I didn't know. I didn't have a community to tell me, like, read this, read that.
But it was really like the bookstagram. And then I completely took off with historical romance. That's wonderful. I love hearing that. Yeah. Yeah. I want my genre to continue.
So do we. We just want to scream that you don't like. Because I feel like you were talking earlier about, you know, you used to be very historically accurate and like conscious and stuff.

(32:40):
And you've kind of went away from that. Whereas I think people who don't read the genre still think that it's just a very stuffy. Like, I'm like, you could nothing is like, like, there's just no stuffiness in my opinion.
Like, it's just so and the stuffiness that is there is meant to be there because it's fun and dramatic. But it's like a dooku stuffy or like a Viscount, but not. And they always have to be understaffed. Yeah.

(33:06):
I mean, I think maybe a cover problem, too. I was just talking to someone about this. I mean, I think we just need a really new cover. You know, like not a girl in a dress and not a guy naked in a stream, although that has its own pleasures.

(33:28):
And probably not an illustrated like you've done more because that feels like that kind of got played out. It's hard because it's like.
You know, I think about this and you just say, OK, so they don't want the illustrated cover with, you know, more traditional like Victorian, you know, notes, but they also don't want naked people, but they also don't want this.
They also we can't have step backs because they're too expensive. We can't do this. We am like, what is left?

(33:54):
People collect books now because they're pretty, you know, with the with the pictures on the edges and so on.
My books are probably going to go to trade paperback size, which is the larger size.
So I'm kind of thinking it just needs to be something you want to pick up because it's so pretty.

(34:16):
Rather than the people being pretty.
The book is pretty. I just don't know how to visualize. Yeah, it's interesting.
I don't I'm not sure if you know that I work for forever in the marketing and publicity department.
And so, yeah, I some people do.
And then I forget to mention it because I just assume that everyone knows this about me.
And then I'm like, Eloise James does not know this.

(34:39):
So I work for forever. And a lot of what we publish is romance.
And so I don't work on a ton of the historical romances, but I do here and there. And it's so interesting to see like reader fit, like trying to balance exactly that.
Like there are the readers who will not pick up a clinch cover.
But then there are so many loyal historical romance readers who will buy it, who will only pick up like a classic clinch cover.

(35:03):
And it's like, I don't we don't I don't know how to make everybody happy here except to just like new readers.
Yeah, like bringing in the new readers, but not leaving behind the people that really like the tradition.
It's just so I also I don't think you can. Yeah, I don't have an answer.
Mass market is going as a form. You go into Barnes and Noble into the romance thing.

(35:25):
There's only like this many mass markets and it's all dependent on Wal-Mart.
So that's not going to survive. And I've never really seen clinch covers on a trade paperback size,
which for people who not is just the larger one. So, yeah, I mean, I think my publishers are thinking that if you, you know,

(35:48):
if you're a historical reader, probably know Eloise, you either buy Eloise or you don't. Right.
People often say, I read you a lot. I learned about sex with you. Then I had 10 year waff. Now I'm back. I'm like, hello.
I never left. Not those people who know that it's people like you who are picking it up for the first time.
What makes you pick it up? Right. What made you pick up Evie Dunmore?

(36:12):
That's the audience. She knew me better than I knew myself.
She like gave it to me. But no, I do agree because I think I mean, even with those covers, I don't think I would have picked that up myself.
No, I don't think they're pretty enough. They're sort of kind of. Like, I guess I had no real compunction about like picking up a clinch cover or anything like when I was first starting.

(36:38):
But I get like I can see, I guess, where readers don't want that. Because I mean, that is also happening, obviously, in contemporary to like looking at the covers and even just re jacketing certain books and everything.
But I am also just I'm guilty of it, too, because I had just read that Mary Balog book, Caroline, that a matter of a matter of class and Hoshett was like republishing it.

(37:07):
And I told her I was like, I don't think I would have picked this up if you hadn't like mentioned that you guys were doing this just because the cover did not speak to me in like either of the formats.
And it was the was so good. I like read it twice. I finished it and then started again. I was like, I can't like it was so good. But again, like, I don't think I would have picked that up without having a reason to.

(37:28):
And that makes me sad. A matter of class. Let me see.
Is it what kind of new cover did they give her? No, I like the Bridgerton.
Yeah, is it I had cut off? I can't remember. The head's not completely cut off, I don't think. But it's like the blocky text.

(37:50):
Well, and that's probably like the old cover. So that's the old cover.
We have this one is it's kind of blurry little. Yeah. And then the woman is since and then the new one is. Yeah. Oh, her head is cut off.
So it's like that. Oh, yeah. So it's giving Bridgerton to me. Like the kind of new Bridgerton covers. Yeah. I yeah, that was not that wasn't forever. So like I didn't.

(38:17):
It was his books, like a different imprint. But that was so interesting. And I think it's because of the like Walmart, like Walmart really wants the Bridgerton style because those sold so well when the show first started.
And I'm like, but that I don't that's not I don't like that. I don't like that cover style. I have a lot of books from Bridgerton. I've had a big bump in sales in the UK. Oh, Bridgerton. But not here.

(38:42):
Interesting. Really? I don't think there's a Bridgerton halo here. And again, like that's why we have this pocket. We just want to scream about historical moments is so fun and crazy.
And like there are ghosts and vampires and like all these things that can happen. And so it's just so hard as someone who loves it. And obviously for you is someone who writes it and loves it to just like see people write it off.

(39:08):
Have you seen since you've started writing because I feel like this is one of those cycles and I wonder if like have you seen a decline in historical before like this?
There has been I mean, I've seen them all decline. I remember I remember being in New York for a conference and there was a whole line of editors and they were like, just don't give me anything paranormal. I can't sell. There's not a single reader.

(39:30):
And I was sitting there thinking, but Buffy is really huge on TV. I don't know. And sure enough, then J.R. Ward wrote her first vampires and it and then there was not you couldn't buy anything but paranormal.
So I'm really curious to see what happens because it's like Bridgerton came in like this vector. Right. And I did. I mean, my last book sold 25 percent more in e-book than the one before.

(39:53):
So there's you know, there's definitely like more people reading in E and reading historical.
But the question is whether whether we can come up with.
I mean, you know, I really deliberately tried to write Vicon in Love in a different way. And I tried even more with the next book.

(40:15):
And I think either historical suits itself to the to what people want to read now, which is not an information dump.
They do not want to hear about the ripples blue glass on the wall or whatever.
Yeah, it's not to either we do that or we don't. And so we're in a in a moment where I could see it either flourishing or or dying.

(40:39):
I just don't know. I mean, you talk about like the rippled blue glass, but then it's like they're reading fantasy of the wazoo that just gives you endless amounts of description that that's why I can't do it is because that's just so much.
And the books are so long and I just can't picture what they're putting down. So I'm just like, you know, all this stuff at me.

(41:00):
And so it's like we've had a conversation, Caroline and I, about how historical romance is closer to fantasy than contemporary.
And so I think people do try to be like, you know, if you like fantasy, try historical, which I do think that's not like a one to one match.
Like there are very, very different things. But yeah, I just I feel so powerless.

(41:23):
But also, like, you want to do something because it's just such a fun thing.
So sad to not have like new books come out.
Like I get like panicked about like, OK, what if like these are the only books ever like it dies.
And then like the ones like the backlist is like all you have.
I mean, like Jennifer McQuiston is one of my favorite authors, but she has what, like six books?

(41:48):
And so it's just so like, I don't know, scary. So like think of it like that.
Jennifer's the one. She's with the CDC. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, she got burned up. She was doing ticks and then, you know, covid came along.
So she might can make her way back to writing. Good for her.
Because I think I heard that in a lot of movies. Yeah. Well, because her first one was What Happens in Scotland?

(42:13):
And that was a hilarious book that I just love so much.
And then I read all of her books after that and I was just like, I can't believe there's only like six or however many, maybe nine.
And so I'm very and now I have to pace myself with authors like Ann Mallory.
I'm trying to like wait and like just read a few because there's not like a huge backlist.

(42:37):
But yeah, there's a lot of really great people that aren't publishing anymore.
I mean, Kari Medeiros is one of them. Connie Brockway has really great books.
I have a lot by Connie Brockway.
And Kingsley has crazy books. Did you read Flourish and the Storm?
Oh, you did. Yeah. I'm a big Laura Cancel fan.
I know Laura's books are insane and mostly wonderful.

(43:00):
You know, there's just a lot of really fabulous people back there to read.
And then young people coming up now. I mean, that's my I'm sorry that the like the RWA used to be a place where you could go and you're really teaching classes and nurturing and people get excited about whatever you were teaching.
And that just doesn't quite exist anymore.
So that's unfortunate. I think it makes it harder for new readers, new writers. Yeah. Yeah.

(43:26):
When my school came out, then I joined the RWA. Right.
And I found all these people helped me like understand what POV was.
Which is good. It was very helpful. Yeah.
I guess going back to what you're saying about Gothic. So you so I think Erika really has a Gothic series.
I don't think it was first person.
No, Erika doesn't write in first person. Yeah, I have noticed with YA historical becoming a little bit more popular.

(43:53):
That's where you get the first person because YA is just more first person bent.
And then J.J. McAvoy wrote Aphrodite and the Duke and Hey, There in the Prince, which is a fabulous book.
She's also first person. And that's very fascinating because that to me reads a little bit more like a new adult historical romance.
Like they're fully adults, but it has that kind of like YA like young love feel, which is very fascinating.

(44:20):
And I think it really has to do with the first person and like what you're getting because so much most of the rest of historical is third.
And so I don't I guess I really have a preference.
I mean, I like third just because that's what everything is.
But I do know a lot of people who only like first.

(44:41):
So I think that could also be a thing where they don't want to read historical because there's not.
I don't know. I really relish having the hero's point of view.
Yeah. See, I love it in historical and contemporary.
I'm a single POV. I can I like both.
But in contemporary, I just don't know if I really want to dabble with a contemporary man's mind as much as in historical because I feel like that just there's they're more interesting.

(45:06):
It's true. Really tricky. Yeah.
I mean, I was teaching genre fiction last year and I gave them a different romance or a different genre fiction every year.
And I gave them one which I thought was great.
It was a neurodivergent heroine.
And the hero was like he he met her by bringing a casserole to the door.

(45:28):
And he was a real something is you know that I see now in contemporary romance. It just did not happen before, which is sort of the beta hero to be to be blunt about it.
And they were like the idea that she would open the door and eat something that a strange man gave to her.
And I never even occurred to me. I was like, well, it's the hero and you're inside his head.
You know, he's good.

(45:50):
Like, forget it. There's only love in this casserole.
There's no poison. You know what, though? I would have eaten the casserole.
I would not have thought what is a strange casserole doing? I would have simply maybe were.
If I was in any point of view and you knew he was a good guy, a nice little beta guy who makes casserole.

(46:13):
But yeah, that I mean, the thing is, you we were talking in the beginning about, you know, like 20 years of romance.
And then you know, the alpha heroes have changed a lot. Right.
So you you now become the protective alpha.
It's much harder if you're not in his point of view to establish he's a good actor.
On some point, that's even with Dom.

(46:36):
Again, I felt like he was a bit just more like interesting than heroes have been recently.
I think it's important when a character is just going to, like you said, like blackmail, like do whatever they need to do to get the other person.
Like, I'm all for it. I love it.
Like Tom Severin. Like he wants he got it.
Like Harry Rutledge. Yes.

(46:58):
And so I just think that's so fun.
My favorite scene, which I don't think is a spoiler, but it's just great.
And I think it would sell the book to any historical romance reader is when she says she likes the actor's muscles.
He just like strips.
That's so real. I love that so much.

(47:20):
Like I had to take a minute.
I was like, this is the funniest thing I've ever read.
But like, I liked that he was funny and but also still a little bit of a jerk at times where I was like, were.
But it was so fun to like read that and like fall in love with him as Tory was as well.
Because I think nowadays it's a lot of like the cinnamon rolls and the beta heroes, which I love a good virgin hero.

(47:47):
I love a good cinnamon roll.
But it's a hard balance. I feel like to find.
It is an interesting point about like you have to be in his head.
I don't think I would have liked him if I wasn't in his head.
I would be like, why are you so rude and stuff?
But because you're in it and he's like, no, I don't like her, but I will have her.
She is mine and I will duel anyone who looks at her.

(48:11):
You're like, you're so dumb. I love it.
Like he's not dumb. He's fighting in the House of Lords against like slavery.
But like I love a man who's dumb in love, Viscount in love, if you will.
And that's why I called it Viscount in love, though, because the whole lovely thing is that he just never knows what he is.
I love I love oblivious.

(48:34):
Oh, inside every smart man is a dumb man. I mean, that's just what it is.
It's just yeah. Oh, that book. I can't wait to reread it.
Oh, thank you. That is my absolute favorite, favorite, favorite thing that a fan can ever say to me is I reread it.
It's like, oh, my God, that's just such a lovely.

(48:57):
I am a huge reader, especially in audio, because I read now a lot of arcs. So then when I get the audio books and then Susan Dordain is the narrator.
I believe she's so good of a lot of your books is fantastic.
And then is this one different or is that this one is different? Yeah.
And I think this was the younger narrator again, feeling like you really need to have younger voices also because, you know, the heroine's yeah.

(49:21):
Yeah. And that makes sense.
We got to go. Yeah. So, well, we're coming.
You got to let me just ask you one more question. You guys talk at all. Do we what are you tick tock?
Oh, Caroline is a big time. I actually started I got into romance because of tick tock and then I got my job.

(49:42):
Well, I got my internship because of tick tock. So that was my like initial platform.
And now I'm on Instagram a lot. But that is that that's where I have the most followers, I suppose.
It's an interesting. Yeah. So you're doing book talk on.
I am. Well, right now I'm also very this is listeners of the podcast will know I'm also very into Formula One, which is a semi recent obsession.

(50:10):
Oh, Netflix. I watched every single one. My husband's like, what are you doing? I'm like, get out of here.
I even tell myself reading little snippets in the newspaper. Just.
Well, I went out here reading like biographies. I am. I'm in the nonfiction.
So I was saying we we were both traveling before this. I was with my friend. We went to England for the race.

(50:37):
We did. So that was we were at the British Grand Prix.
So when I say I'm in the formula, I'm like, I'm in it. I'm watching the races. But I so I am also posting about that now.
So my whole tick tock is like books, but also race, race cars.
But yes, I am in book talk. It's an interesting. I didn't know about Formula One until that show came out.

(51:00):
And then my agent came with a spoon who's you know, she's got inkwell management. It's on Fifth Avenue. She's like, Mary, you have to.
Well, Eloisa, because my real name is Mike. He's like, you have to watch the show. You have to watch it.
It was so happy. I was so happy for like two weeks. I watched it every night.
Caroline made me watch it at Steamy Lit when we went last year, Steamy Lit Con.

(51:23):
We were in the same hotel room and it was good because I'm not a big Formula One person, but I was like, I will watch this when it is on.
I need you to watch the rest of it. I need you to catch up.
That is how I got my my friend is my coworker that went with me to the races. I got her through drive to survive.
I was like, it's like hot, arrogant men who historical romance.
They're so historical romance coded. They're like hot, rich athletes who drive cars really fast.

(51:49):
And they're so dramatic. And it's nothing but interpersonal drama for no reason.
But it's so emotional. That's what gets me is they can go and throw a race with their emotions.
And I'm like, you've been exercising, you know, 400 hours a day on all these special machines and everything.
And then you don't feel that good. You don't even have your periods.
And what are you complaining about? They smash the race.

(52:15):
And that whole scandal this year, like, I can't wait to see what Netflix does with it.
You know, with that guy, the evil Christian Horner.
Christian Horner. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.
I was your father. I would totally be knocking on that woman's door.
Former wouldn't you? Yeah. I mean, I would love to know what happened.

(52:39):
Yeah, though, there's just so much drama this whole.
See, it's so emotional. And right now, the like two guys that are fighting for the lead of the championship are also friends.
So there's so much like, oh, are they still friends? And they're like fighting on track.
And they like ran into each other a couple of races ago. And the one guy like finished his race.
And then everybody's like, the friendship is over, but it's not. Oh, my God.

(53:01):
It's so dramatic for no reason. I love it. I actually read a stupid article.
I mean, that's how I'm so fine. Well, you know, I don't think the New York Times ever covered that until this Formula One came up.
Drivers and I tried the other ones like the golf one is totally. Yeah, I couldn't do it.
I managed to do part of the, you know, tennis one wasn't too bad.

(53:23):
I've heard the tennis one is the other decent one. It's kind of fun.
Yeah, there's there's tennis. And then there was one other one. They did a NASCAR one and I couldn't get past the first episode.
NASCAR. I think because NASCAR is so like American.
And I'm like, that's not as fun as these like mostly European, but also, you know, there's like a Mexican driver and Japanese and Chinese.

(53:47):
Like they're from all over, but it's largely a European sport. And they're so silly.
It's not Home Depot sponsoring. Yeah, it's just they're so rich. So rich.
I mean, it's like Maddie is a trillion. Yeah. It was really interesting when Russia invaded the Ukraine.
Right. Oh, my God. I love that. Suddenly the Russian billionaire and his son got kicked off the Formula.

(54:09):
I was just reading. I read the the Gunther.
I read his book and he oh, yeah. And he like documented that whole year.
He was doing like diary entries basically is the way this book goes.
And he was it was like when Russia invaded Ukraine.
And so you go through like his process of having to like, what are you going to do about your title sponsor being a Russian oligarch and your driver?

(54:33):
It was rough. I did not end up being in his shoes.
No, I want I want the vibes of Formula One in a historical romance.
There's one contemporary romance that exists and it's it's great.
It's a good time. I want it. What's the historical equivalent to that?
The closest this is not close at all, but the closest I've got was Lenora Bell's another fantastic author.

(54:59):
The Duke that I want or something. It's her Greece one.
She just it's like her most recent Greece historical romance. And so like they had like she had to figure out like a way to get like the T-Birds in like historic.
Like, you know, they have like all these cars in historical. So there was like carriage racing and stuff.
So I feel like or a car race. Like, I feel like you could like I feel like there's definitely a way you could do it.

(55:23):
If she could do Greece, I feel like you can do F1. It was just very funny.
It's hard, though, because in a historical moment, you have so much to do.
You I mean, I'm sure Lenore, I can't read Lenore because she's got such a great voice at all.
Yeah, adopting. She's fabulous.
But you have so much to do.

(55:46):
It'd be hard to set up the whole idea of, you know, curricles.
And then you'd have to set up because that's what we call an academic homosocial society, right, where the bonds between men matter way more than the bond between.
And that's one of the things about Formula One. It's like watching a homerotic, you know, playing out right there, like the older guys and the younger guys and the big cars and big penis envy everywhere.

(56:12):
I think the way you'd probably have to do is if the heroine wants to get into like the racing and then she'd have to like she's trying to break into critical.
That's a whole thing. Yeah, that requires.
It is. And you're just writing that, you know, that you're way out there on a feminist.
Yeah, basically. Sarah McLean. Yeah, that's true.
Sarah Paging Sarah. You can find someone or you could break into a critical.

(56:35):
Yeah. Well, if anybody listening wants to write me a historical romance with the vibes of Formula One, I'll read it.
I were coming to the end of our time, so I would love to bring us back to Viscount in love.
I feel like let's maybe what was your favorite scene to write?
Do you have a favorite scene? Well, I have to say I did love this scene in which he's desperate to get her to make her marry him.

(57:01):
And so, yeah, he's like, well, she liked that actor. So and I'm bigger than that actor. So I'm just going to take my shirt off.
And she had described the actor sitting in a chair. So he like just sits in the chair. He's like, so? So what do you think?
And that was a great moment. I have to say, though, I also really loved a moment later in the book.
So I'm trying to explain this without breaking it when he thinks he's going to do something so great for her because he's going to be such a great husband.

(57:30):
He's going to be so generous and fabulous. And he doesn't understand the situation at all. And I love writing that scene.
Yeah. So one thing for those of you who are Bridgerton people and you watched Queen Charlotte, George is the one who started the Royal Academy of Art.
George, who is goes mad, right? He's the one who started the Royal Academy of Art and was his greatest patron.

(57:57):
And spoiler alert, had two women among the founding members because he was not sexist. I mean, for the time, he really wasn't.
And yet they'll still be readers. This was not historically accurate.
Yeah, I had to put in historical note about that. Yep. Yep. Yep. You know, there's this thing that the Royal Academy does where every summer they have it's the oldest one in Europe.

(58:21):
It's a contest anyone could enter. You guys are artists, you could enter. And one of my friends just got a piece submitted to it.
So it's so cool. It's still going on. It's kind of like the formula one of art.
That's how I'm going to pitch everything from now on. It's kind of like the formula one of insert topic here.

(58:42):
Yeah. You guys watched Queen Charlotte, right? I watched part of it, but I knew how it was going to end.
And I'm crying. You have to. It is such a perfect romance.
But you know how it ends. And it's I can't.
I can't do it. But he comes back to himself sometimes. So there's this incredible. Did you watch it, Hannah? No, I have a thing where I don't engage with sad movies and TV shows.

(59:14):
I know, I know, I know. I didn't want to either. However, number one, those actors are so unbelievably sexy. They are.
The guy is beyond gorgeous. Right. She is fabulous. And they have amazing chemistry. I mean, Bridgerton would cry to have this chemistry. Right.
And it is so romantic. And you don't they don't go to the you know, to the end or anything.

(59:40):
It's very, very, very romantic. It's like a marriage the way we all wish we had a marriage, you know.
I mean, you are going to cry. Yeah. But just because it's so sweet. So I totally I watched about half of it, I think.
And then I struggle with TV shows. I don't watch very many of them because I'll get distracted halfway through.

(01:00:02):
But they're so long. Yeah, I am. I did just watch My Lady Jane, which I didn't read the book. I didn't know anything about the book. That book was great.
But I watched the show because they got me with the enemies to lovers banter of it all. And they didn't get you with a horse.
I didn't watch that one because she gets her head chopped off. It's a historical. It's also fantasy.
People are shifting into animals and it's also like a horse. Yeah. And they're very like there's a narrator that's very much like this is not history.

(01:00:30):
So it's it is a happy ending. OK. I'll give it a shot. I mean, I was like, Jane, forget it. Yeah. Yeah.
No, no, no. It's not the actual history. And it's so it's another one that I'm like, you should read historical romance if you like this.
It's so historically like that's she like it's she thinks she's marrying one brother and like an arranged marriage and then it's the other brother.

(01:00:54):
And then the other brother has a secret. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You have written. Yeah.
And I ate that book. Yeah. I like my Lady Jane read my American. I read that book back in twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen before I did any of this.
Like, I think I just found it on Libby when I was still in grad school and I had no clue what it was.

(01:01:16):
It was just available. And yeah, within the first few pages, he's shifting into a horse like during the day.
And you're like, what is going on? And it was so good. So I'm very excited to watch that show.
But yeah, I'm bad at TV shows and watching them and all of that, because I always have an audio book or like a book I'm reading.
So I'm like, I prefer just to do that. But I'm very excited for that one. That was a good book. So what great audio books.

(01:01:38):
And if you're listening and you like the show, My American Duchess. Right.
Let me give a plug for my tick tock. Yes, because I am shifting my tick tock to mostly funny videos, which are being made by members of my family.
My son is great at it. So this hysterical one says there's a historical Bridgeton one that is Viscount in love,

(01:02:00):
where he warped the face of the Bridgeton here and then warped to the face of my Viscount.
So that is my turn from like aesthetic videos. Now they're all going to be kind of funny. So please watch them.
We will have it linked in the show now. Oh, absolutely.
But also is your username?

(01:02:24):
The one that is viral there is because Taylor Swift and Angie used my dad's mentioned my dad and used one of his poems for the title. So, yeah, that was really cool.
Yes, I really enjoy your real. I'm more on Instagram. So I see your reels and stuff about talking about your backlist titles and like tropes that you've done.

(01:02:50):
So I feel like a lot of authors don't either have as extensive of a backlist or talk with them as much.
So I like how you kind of like bring them back and talk about like Virgin Heroes and like things that you've done.
So I really enjoy those and just like seeing your opinions. Good to know. Thank you. I like you.
I never know what, you know, what people are enjoying. So it's always fun to see like authors talk about books that you loved and like read like a while ago.

(01:03:15):
And then you always kind of think about them, but maybe you don't talk about them a lot just because like other things are coming out and then seeing them love the things that you love still.
Like it's really nice to see authors love books that you like their books that you love because obviously it's like I feel like in the publishing industry is very fast.
You move on very quickly to the next book, you know, once coming out, you're already working on the next and all of that.

(01:03:36):
So when you can give that backlist love, I do. I do love to see it.
I keep that in mind for sure. The moment is Viscount all the time. Well, it is the moment right now.
Viscount needs his moment. Exciting. Yes. Let's hope. Well, by the time people are listening, it will be on shelves.

(01:03:57):
So go get it. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. Please go get it. You definitely should.
And this is this is the start of a new series. Yes, it is the Accidental Brides. Yep. So so a perfect starting.
It's an accidental bride. You already teased us a little bit.
Laird in his dream. Laird in his dream. That's the best teaser. I need no other information.

(01:04:20):
No, literally. I have very specific story graph shelves where I categorize books because someone's going to ask for a very specific trope and I'll have read it, but I won't remember it.
So I categorize them and I definitely have came upon the other naked or like saw the other naked, like in random situations like that.
And you know what does that, my Lady Jane.

(01:04:41):
Okay. You see that man all the way from the back. It's amazing. All the way from the back. Yeah.
Seeing the Laird in his dream. Now it's just. I can't wait to see you guys. See what you think of it because there's a hysterical.
She draws some hysterical conclusions about seeing a man naked in a freezing stream. Oh my God.

(01:05:06):
Well, I also, this book, we get some very funny, like one of our favorite historical tropes is women using Greek statues as like sex education.
They're like, yeah, I know what a naked man looks like. And the scene where he draws her a picture took me out.
That's another thing that's new in historical moments. You didn't used to be able to make fun of sex. You can now.

(01:05:31):
You can have, you can make fun of it and it'll still be sexy. You know, I, you can be messy as it were and you can still be sexy.
I love that. So it's a lot of fun. I can't wait to reread. So good. Get book two. Start a new series.
So if you, for some reason, haven't been reading Elisa's books, you can start with this one and then you can read all the other ones.

(01:05:56):
Thank you so much. You guys. It was lovely talking to you. Thank you so much for taking, cause you're in Italy all summer, right? Yeah.
Thank you for logging on for us. I know. I don't think I would have. I'm sorry I'm late.
I count on my iPhone and then I left it in the bathroom. So you're good.
I'm like, if I were in Italy for the summer, I might not have logged on. So I'm just logging on five minutes late to everybody.

(01:06:24):
You're in Italian time, European time. Yes. It doesn't matter. I'm in Italian time.
So anytime you want to talk about historical romance, I'm here. It was totally fun talking to you guys.
So powerful one. Yeah, we're going to be on Instagram live. Yes. I think that will have happened before this episode airs.
I'll have it recorded. So if you guys want to go check that out, cause I think we'll probably drop this on the Friday of Pub Week.

(01:06:50):
If you send me a link, I'll put it on my Facebook group and I'll have it. Oh yeah, I'm in your Facebook group.
So yeah, we'll be on Facebook live or Facebook live. Oh my God. Instagram live.
Watch that recording as this will be probably after that. Talking about the new release, cause that'll be on release day, which is July 23rd.
So is that I'm a cancer baby. Is that into Leo territory? I feel like. I don't know.

(01:07:17):
Wrong audience. We're like, I don't know. I'm very partial to things in July.
So cause my birthday is next week. So I love July. Happy birthday. Thank you. Happy birthday to you and Viscount. Exactly.
It's all coming together. Okay. Okay, dear. Bye guys. Thank you so much.

(01:07:42):
This was fabulous. Seriously, anytime.

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