July 15, 2025 • 58 mins
Alexian Santino Spinelli, musician, composer, writer, poet and university professor. The first Italian Roma to be appointed Commendatore of the Italian Republic for artistic and cultural merits. Spinelli with the Alexian Group holds numerous concerts in Italy and abroad. With his son Gennaro, he is the first Roma to have played at the Teatro alla Scala in Milan and at the Teatro San Carlo in Naples with the soloists of the Scala, the San Carlo and the G. Rossini Symphony Orchestra of Pesaro. He has played worldwide for Pope Benedict XVI and several times for Pope Francis. Founder and president of the cultural association Thèm Romanò, he is an ambassador of Romani culture in the world. His poem Auschwitz is on the Roma Memorial in Berlin inaugurated with Chancellor Angela Merkel. He currently teaches Romani Language and Culture at La Sapienza University in Rome.
Listen to the Alexian Group here and wherever you get music.
Romani crushes this episode are Raјko Đurić, Marcel Courthaid, Ian Hancock Esme Redzepova, Roby Lakatos, and Marian Serban.
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Romanistan is hosted by Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens
Conceived of by Paulina Stevens
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Romanistan .
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We're your friendly neighborhood gypsies.
I'm Paulina and I'm Jez, andtoday we're here with Alexian
Santino Spinelli.
Musician, composer, writer,poet and university professor,
the first Italian Roma to beappointed the Comandatore of the
Italian Republic for artisticand cultural merits.
(00:30):
Spinelli, with the AlexianGroup, holds numerous concerts
in Italy and abroad.
With his son, gennaro, he isthe first Roma to have played at
the Teatro alla Scala in Milanand the Teatro San Carlo in
Naples, with the soloists of theScala and the San Carlo and the
Girosini Symphony Orchestra ofPesaro.
(00:51):
He has played worldwide forPope Benedict XVI and several
times for Pope Francis.
Founder and president of thecultural association Teem Romano
, he is the ambassador of Romaniculture in the world.
His poem Auschwitz is on theRoma Memorial in Berlin,
(01:12):
inaugurated with ChancellorAngela Merkel.
He currently teaches Romanilanguage and culture at La
Sapienza University in Rome.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yay, welcome.
We're so happy to have you here.
Thank you very much for yourinvitation.
It's a great pleasure and greathonor to stay with you today to
speak about our world, theRomani world.
You know that we love so much.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes, I mean, and you're the perfect person to
talk to about this Can you tellus a little more about yourself,
where you're from, where yourfamily's from and your visa?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Okay, to the oldest Roma community that arrived in
Italy in the 15th century.
My family settled in the southof Italy and here we remain.
My family arrived in theAbruzzo region.
(02:23):
Abruzzo is in the center partof Italy, on the Adriatic coast,
and I live in Lanciano, in theChieti province, near the
Adriatic coast.
Lanciano is a small town but itgave me the opportunity to live
(02:44):
tranquility after the tourneyall my work, so when I come back
to home I can have time for me,for my family and to relax here
very well.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's beautiful yeah .
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So we love to ask this question Do you consider
yourself a rebel?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, in the sense that I am against any form of
racism, any form ofdiscrimination, any form of
injustice, you know.
So in this sense, I am a goodrebel.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
That's an important thing to rebel against.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I mean, it's becoming so normalized, so we got to say
it sometimes.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We would love to know more about your relationship
with music.
When did you start playing andwhat do you really love to
perform?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
music.
When did you start playing andwhat do you really love to
perform?
Yes, I started playing musicwhen I was young, thanks to my
father and that passion formusic, you know.
So I had this opportunity and Imust thank him for that great
(04:06):
opportunity.
When other Roma not have thesame opportunity, he gave me the
opportunity also to go toschool.
You know, that was my luck atthe time.
So I had the opportunity totake the instrument to become
(04:27):
what today I am.
I love music and I pass on myfamily, my children, the same
passion.
So I have the great pleasure toplay with my children my son,
gennaro, that is a great, greatviolinist, and my daughters, two
(04:50):
daughters, evideza, that playharps and Julia that plays cello
.
So my family is a musicalfamily.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
That is so sweet.
How would you describe thestyle of music that you usually
play?
Is it traditional music or doyou play a lot of different
kinds?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, traditional music, sure for sure.
But also my composition that isalso in Italian, romanese, our
language, our dialect, you know,is different from the other
dialect, so that influence alsomy way in which I play and
(05:37):
produce music.
So that is sure.
But I remain inside theinternational Romani music.
You know, if you want, my musicis influenced by the
Mediterranean and Balcanic style.
But I love music, of coursejazz, I love classical music, I
(06:01):
love in general ethnic music,but above all I love Romani
music in all forms, in allexpressions.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Very nice, and it's also super cool to have a whole
musical family.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, but you know I told before that my father
passed on to me his passion formusic and I pass on to my
children the passion for music,so we have the opportunity to
play together.
For example, we play for thePope Benedict XVI in 2012 in
(06:52):
Bresso, near Milan, worldwide,you know, on national television
and worldwide, in front of 1million people.
That means 4 kilometers ofpeople and with a great screen
to see all our performance.
(07:14):
It was a great, great, greatsatisfaction, but also a great
experience.
It was amazing emotion, youknow, and I can see you.
I can say you that I'm notashamed to say that when I came
back to the dressing room, Icried.
(07:38):
I cried for the satisfaction,for the commotion.
You know it was a real, veryparticular moment of my life.
Why?
Because I shared thisexperience with my children.
You know they support of thepressure of the media, of the
(08:06):
great event that they lived withme in that moment, with great
musicians like Noah you know,the Israeli singer, very great
artist, very well known in allthe world.
That's incredible I mean I sendyou the video of this experience
so you can see four kilometersof people, one million people
(08:27):
there.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I can't even imagine what did you play for the Pope?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I played my composition Pater Noster you
know, the Holy Father in theRoman language, in my dialect.
So I composed that many, manyyears ago and I had the
opportunity to offer thiscomposition, this song, to many
(08:57):
holy fathers that means BenedictXVI, but many, many times to
the Pope Francis I, and it was agreat emotion any time, you
know, particularly the PopeFrancis I was very, very, very.
(09:21):
He liked this song.
He liked it so much and thefirst time that he listened to
this composition he wassurprised, you know, to listen
in a different language.
The father, the paternoster,our father, you know, in the
(09:45):
Romani language.
It's very, very surprising forhim.
It was a great surprise for him, sure.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That is so powerful to be able to play that song in
our language, and so you got tospeak to him.
You got to talk to him and meethim and everything.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, I speak with him in italian, of course.
Yeah, in romanese, right, butbecause you know our language, I
have the honor to to teach ourlanguage and culture at the
university, in la sapienza, in r, and our language, you know,
(10:25):
can survive only if the otherpeople can learn, only if our
language can be promoted in alldirections and at the old level.
But many times, you know, ourlanguage is discriminated, you
(10:48):
know from the institution.
For example, in Italy, you knowthere is a law that protects 12
minorities, 12 minorities,language and culture of 12
minorities, but not the Romaminority.
That is a great, greatinjustice and many times I
(11:13):
underlined that it's very, veryimportant to promote, to include
our language and culture inthat law or create a specific
law for our language, for ourculture, because we have the
right to live with our culture.
(11:38):
That is a wonderful culture.
That is a wonderful culture,wonderful language that comes
from, as you know, from, theorigin, is Indian origin.
So it's absurd today that ourlanguage is not supported by the
Italian institution,institution.
(12:03):
So I hope very, very soon canchange this situation.
Before you ask me if I am arebel, yes, I am a rebel because
I want to promote, to supportour language and our history,
(12:25):
our culture.
Why?
Because it is a human beingpatrimony, you know it belongs,
our language belongs to thehumanity and it's very important
to promote it at all levels.
We need that.
You know, and many times, manytimes you know, our world,
(12:51):
romani world, is seen onlythrough the stereotypes.
That is not good for us.
It's not good because serotypesdo not include our character,
our world.
In the majority, society.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We actually we think it's really amazing that you
teach Romanes.
Yes, I teach Romanes.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I teach roman language, romanes um.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
We were wondering what do you feel about our
language being more accessible,like through google translate,
different classes, um and othermethods, like?
What's your opinion on that?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yes, I am.
I believe I told before.
I believe that only if wesupport and promote our language
our language can survive.
Otherwise it risks disappearing.
Yeah, that is the riskdisappearing.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Do you teach specifically?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
This is not good for human being, you know, because,
as I told before, our culture ispart of the human treasure.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, it is.
I was wondering do you teachthe dialect that's spoken most
in Italy, or do you teach otherdialects?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
No, no, no, I teach international Roman language,
but also with the example, withour dialect.
You know our Italian dialectbecause it's not so different,
but they are different becausethe word is the same.
For example, I don't know maro.
(15:18):
Maro is bread.
You know maro, but we say maro.
The other people say maro ormanro or manro, but the word is
the same.
Yeah, the lexical is the samebut it's different.
The grammar is just a littledifferent.
(15:40):
It's a main dialect.
You know, the Romano languageis unique, but it's divided in
many, many dialects, differentdialects, and many times these
dialects do not understand eachother.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, it's so interesting because there's such
a big debate about the Romanilanguage being accessible
through Google Translate andsome people are saying that
maybe they're afraid thatcertain dialects will get left
behind and people will only knowthe popular ones.
But do you have opinions abouthow people should preserve
dialects?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, the Google translation is not so good for a
Romani language because thereare a lot of wrong, you know.
Oh, there is a problem tounderstand what Google want from
Roma people, but it's okay.
(16:44):
As I told before, it's very,very important to promote.
It's not important, but we needto promote our language at all
levels.
Okay, through the socialnetwork, google course to
university, in private course onprivate convention or seminar.
(17:10):
You know, it's very importantto promote the truth.
That means history, culture,language I don't know literature
, filmography, etc.
Etc.
What is very important topromote is the truth about Roma
(17:34):
and to overtake the stereotypes,because there are too many
stereotypes that come from thediscrimination, stereotype that
comes from discrimination.
So we must eliminate, cancelthe discrimination and the
stereotype and to promote thetruth about the Roma community.
(18:01):
There are a lot of things very,very positive in our life and
culture, like music, for example.
No, you know, it's a greatcontribution of Roma people to
the classical music in Europeduring the Romantic era.
(18:23):
You know, the great composer,european composer, like Fran
Liste, like Joan Brahms, likeFranz Schubert and many, many
others, take from Roma theirmusical patrimony, music
patrimony, you know, and put itin the classic music Great,
(18:47):
great valorization, but notrecognition to the Roma this
great merit.
You know the great, greatcontribution.
And until now Roma music iscataloged as folkloristic music.
No, roma music is cataloged asfolkloristic music.
No, roman music is art, it's agreat art, like flamenco in
(19:14):
Spain Without Roma, thecontribution of Roma in Spain,
never the flamenco can be bebecame what it is now, you know,
like volcanic Roma music orEast European Roma music or the
(19:35):
great jazz manouche music.
You know that comes from DjangoReinhardt, the great genius.
Many, many um rom artistsduring the history of humanity
were a great, great genius, youknow, and one of that is a
(19:59):
jungle reiner.
So the romani music is very,very important, in a different
style, in different expression,and music itself is poetry, like
the colors of the painting aremusic at the same time.
(20:20):
That means that there is aclose connection between all
kinds of arts.
Why?
Because they come from thehuman South.
That's the expression of thehuman heart and sound.
(20:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We actually wanted to ask what do you think is
special about Romani art,specifically their art, music
and our writing?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
our writing.
Music is one of the mostimportant expressions of the
Roma community.
You know that gives us theopportunity to keep and preserve
(22:08):
our culture.
Without music, maybe romanromanian population not would
have the opportunity to preserveand keep art, language and our
world.
So I think that music was oneof the most important
(22:35):
instruments to keep and toconserve our identity.
What we say we call Romani pen.
Okay, without music we have notRomani pen.
It's a part, a very importantpart, of Romani music.
(22:56):
Romani music is the life, heartof our identity.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Do you have any suggestions for listeners who
maybe aren't that familiar withRomani music?
Who should they listen to toget started?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
No, all kinds of music is good, all kinds of
music, form of music, romanimusic is good, very, very good.
There are many, many styles.
There are many, many, manydifferent expressions of Romani
music is good, very, very good.
There are many, many styles.
You know many, many, manydifferent expressions of Romani
music, but all of them is verygood.
Now there is a very importantpassage.
(23:39):
If you want, it's a very.
I think that it's revolutionary.
It's the new step that wefollow, you know, from
folklorism to symphonism, FromRomani folklore to the
(24:00):
symphonism.
We reach that and we must go ontoward the ethno-symphonism.
What means that?
Mean and I am included in thisdirection, in this I would say
travel.
What does ethno-symphonies mean?
(24:22):
It's not only the music of aspecific community, roma
community, but in European Romamusic that we are not.
We have a different styleflamenco, volcanic, east Europe,
(24:44):
jazz, manhout, but not a realEuropean Roman music.
And I am involved in thisprocess to promote a real
European Roman music.
My production, my lastproduction, is that From in the
(25:05):
past, the folklore give us theopportunity to keep and to
conserve our identity, but nowwe can, must, develop all that
in a other form of music.
We must include in our musicalso also element from different
(25:30):
European composers, what theEuropean composers during the
Romantic era made.
That means take our music andput it in the classical music we
must make.
On the contrary, take fromdifferent European composers
some element European Europeanelements and to put it in our
(25:54):
music.
That is my work now, you know,and I produce with the Grutter
symphonic orchestra, rocini,gioacchino Rocini symphony
orchestra.
I produce a new CD that you canunload from the best music
(26:16):
platform like Team Music,spotify, etc.
Etc.
Okay, you can take that.
And Alexian Group and RossiniOrchestra with this
Romano-Etrano-Symphonic Anodrom.
That means the journey throughthe Romani music,
(26:39):
etrano-symphonic Romani music.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
That is so exciting, this idea of very meaningfully
borrowing the way that we'vebeen borrowed from and kind of
writing us back into the canon.
Is it different, is it adifferent process writing music
than it is writing poetry, or doyou feel like those two parts
of your brain are connected?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
yeah, yeah, it's connected.
It's closed, you know, because,as I told before, I come from
the same southern heart, so it'sdifferent expression of the
same, uh, sensitivity sointeresting.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Um, you have had such a fascinating life.
In general, I feel like wecould ask you about anything and
you would have a great story totell and teach us something,
and you're a good storyteller.
Is there any story you justlove to tell about your
experiences in life and musicand art with your family, or all
of those things?
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, my experience, one of the best experience in my
life was when I play with myson in uh teatro.
La scala in milan, you know, isthe is the temple of the
mundial music and play for thefirst time.
(28:06):
Like I and my son, we are thefirst Roma that, as a soloist,
arrived at this level.
Never before in the 6th centurydid Roma reach the Scala in
(28:27):
Milan.
That is a great honor but alsoa great responsibility for us.
In the Scala you can triumph ordeath from a musical point of
view.
You know if the criticmassacrate you, but the good God
(28:48):
save us.
And the critic was very, very,very positive because we bring
our natural music, you know, ourharmony, our very expressive
art in the temple of the mundialmusic and with Triumph, triumph
(29:13):
did that and gave us this greatsatisfaction.
And I am also the first composer, you know, because in the
poster is my composition Romanodi Vese, that means the great
part of Roma.
Romano di Vese, romanese.
(29:34):
You know, this is the firstcomposition that enters this
great place.
And in the poster there is thename of Brahms, because we play
the music of Brahms, liszt,bizet and traditional Romani
(29:58):
music and also my compositionRomano di Vesca by Santino
Spinelli.
That is a great result, notonly for me you know, it's not
an individual enrichment but allmy people, all Roma from all
(30:18):
the world.
You know this is what we do forour son, gennaro that bring the
Romani flag on the Mount ofEverest.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
We have to hear more about that.
We were going to ask abouteverything.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's not individual event.
It's not individual event butit's collective.
It's all our population at thesame time and all Roma from all
over the world was meeting andat the same time, pride of that
(31:03):
event.
You know it's the same for uswhen we played in uh theater
alaskana de milano, because romafrom all the world send us
message to congratulate with us.
You know, at the same time, inthis, the, the very important,
(31:35):
very, very, very importanttheater of San Carlo in Naples.
You know, san Carlo, it was thefirst theater in Europe.
All the theater that came aftertake it as model.
San Carlo theater was the modelfor the future.
Before there is only the hallfor concert, not theater, all
(32:01):
for concert.
After that was born San Carlotheater, all Europe built
theater with the same model.
They take this practice.
Okay, so for us, for me, for myson, for my family, it was a
(32:28):
great honor but also a greatresponsibility.
Not only for my family, it wasa great honor but also a great
responsibility not only for my,of course, a great satisfaction
not only from an individualpoint of view but as a
representative of our communityin all the world and in fact,
from all the world can make suchworld and in fact from all the
(32:50):
world come mixage to compliment.
You know, to say thank you,santino, for that work.
I am with you for the work.
My son from the Montavers isnot easy to go there, you know.
No, it's very, very difficultto go with a Romani flag to go
(33:17):
there.
It was also dangerous, verydangerous Were you nervous.
From a physical point of view.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, were you nervous about him climbing up?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, of course, very , very scared.
I was worried all the time.
Three weeks I couldn't sleep inthe night.
You know I was very, very, veryscared because I know the
dangerous that, what mean tostay at six, seven meters, you
(33:58):
know, without oxygen, and it'svery, very dangerous.
Also, because you know the miniis very, it's very high.
You know the mini is very high.
You know the path is verynarrow, the street is very, very
narrow.
It's 150 kilometers to go up.
(34:22):
It's not easy.
It's not easy, absolutely.
It was needed three weeks toarrive there and I and my wife,
of course, we were scared, wewere in anxiety.
(34:43):
You know, all the time I wasreally afraid for that all the
time I was really afraid forthat.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I would be too.
And then when we saw the newsarticle because, of course, like
paulina, and I didn't know thatwas happening you were afraid
for three weeks.
We just saw the article and Icouldn't believe it.
I had to actually read it a fewtimes.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
I was like, wow, that's so incredible yeah,
because I I do only what I feel.
This is my freedom.
I can't do something in which Idon't believe.
What I do is what in which Ibelieve.
(35:23):
So my passion is my star that Ifollow.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I love that.
Do you have any advice foryoung roma with a dream who are
trying to figure out?
You know how do they follow apath like yours.
Like what's your best advice?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Because many sacrifice the talent is not
enough to reach results.
You know, it's a very, veryimportant sacrifice and I would
say, in English, work.
(36:33):
It's very important to workevery day so hard.
Without very hard work,sacrifice, it's impossible to
reach something.
It's not enough the talent.
Talent is good to help you toarrive at a certain level before
(36:56):
the other, but it's not enoughto go on.
So I suggest to the youngpeople to love what they do and
believe in something and to havedreams, because if you work so
(37:21):
hard, you can take your dreamand translate them into reality,
and translate them in reality.
Okay, a dream is possible.
To transform dreams in reality,but only with sacrifice, with
(37:41):
hard work, that is sure, butafter it's also more
satisfaction.
If you reach something withoutsacrifice, you know it's not
only, it's not satisfaction,satisfaction comes from the hard
work.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
We definitely agree.
What do you have coming up onthe horizon that you would like
our listeners to know about?
Are there any projects you'recurrently working on?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah, as I told you before, I am involved now to
promote not only traditionalmusic but also ethno-symphonic
music.
It is a new step, a new process, because we must go on without
(38:39):
stereotypes.
Many times, you know,folklorism reinforces the
stereotype.
The ethnosymphonies give usrespect.
That is the difference.
So I am involved to promote art, culture, language, history of
(39:01):
our people.
But also I want to give mypersonal contribution for a new
process in the Romani art.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
That's such an amazing undertaking and we just
love that about you.
You're a big dreamer and thenyou do with that.
We always ask this question.
I think I might have forgottento give you a heads up, but we
ask a question who is yourfavorite or who is your Romani
crush?
Which just means like, who's aRomani person who you really
admire, who you would like toshout their name out so people
(39:36):
can go listen to them or learnmore about them.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I had the opportunity and the lucky to know Raiko
Djuric.
That is that.
But it was really a great greatRoma intellectual, a Roma
artist, you know, a great poetand a great, great great person.
(40:02):
I was very, very young when Ilearned from him so much during
a summer school, a Romani summerschool in Rome.
I was very young in that timeand he taught me so much.
Also, marcel Courtiart taughtme so much, indirectly, also Jan
(40:28):
Hancock, you know.
So there is a lot of Romanipeople that we must say thank
you to, these great Romanipeople that honored our culture
and our language, our world.
You know, and from a musicalpoint of view, I admit I have
(40:55):
the honor to share the stagewith the great singer, esma
Recepova.
I share the.
That is in Podgorica, you know,in the Montenegro, the state of
(41:17):
Montenegro, in the NationalTheater in Podgorica, we hold a
concert together, sharing thestage At the same time in France
, for example, with the great,great, great, great great
musician, martin Weiss, thatplay violin at the great, great,
(41:38):
great, great, great musicianMartin Weiss that play violin at
the contrary, but was a genius,really a great genius, genius.
And another genius that I meetand I hear the stage is still
alive is Robby Lakatos inJurmala in Latvia some years ago
(42:04):
.
But I had the lucky to meet alot of great musicians and I
played, for example, for sevenyears with Mari Scherban, one of
the greatest symbolists youknow symbol, the symbol is a but
(42:24):
he lived in Italy for many,many years and for seven years
(42:52):
we collaborated with my groupand we make a lot of
extraordinary, amazing concertstogether in all Europe.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Oh, that is so fascinating.
I love that you got to meet somany of your heroes.
That's wonderful.
I feel like that's what we getto do every month.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
You know, you are very young, but I am an old man.
Yes, I am an old man, yes, I aman old man, so I have a lot of
experience.
But, you know, when you becomeold you see the life from
another perspective, anotherview, visual, you know.
(43:34):
But when you are young you havenot the good experience,
experience but you have a lot offorce.
You know energy.
Now, when you became old, okay,you have not energy, but a lot
of experience it evens out, yes,but I can play for that.
(44:03):
But because I'm very, very luckyto have a wonderful, really
wonderful family, that is a realmy treasure, is a real success
in the life, you know, is myfamily, my two daughter, my wife
and my son.
My sister and I had twowonderful, wonderful parents my
(44:30):
mommy, my mom, julia, that isthat, and my father is that, and
my father, genaro, and that isthat, and my son, julia, bring
the name of his grandmother andthe genaro bring the name of his
.
His grand is grandfather.
So my parents still live in inmy, in the name of my, my son.
(44:56):
That's our tradition in theItalian Roma community.
This is a tradition for us.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That is so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
It's part of our tradition.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, when I met you in Romania years ago at
Luminita's festival, which wasincredible and life-changing-
one of the things.
I just took away most about youis how warmly you speak about
your family.
I love hearing about all thethings you do with them.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
My family is my treasure.
You know, in all Roma family,without family we cannot survive
, you know.
In any time family, the focalpoint of Romani culture.
Our woman is the real, thegreat, I would say, treasure of
(45:54):
Romani family.
Our woman is very, veryimportant.
I am lucky to have five sisters.
Oh, wow.
And I am the only man of thefamily and the last one, you
know, the youngest, the baby.
So I had also two brothers andtwo sisters that unfortunately
(46:22):
they died.
My mom had ten children.
We remained six, five sistersand I.
They live in my function, youknow.
They protect me.
One of my, the secret of mysuccess in my life was my family
(46:45):
, was my five sisters and mymother, six Romani women.
You understand what I mean isan army, a great army that
protect me from the externaldangers.
That is the truth.
It's only the truth.
(47:07):
I always say that.
I underline that my family wasmy real support, my real
successful in my triumph in life.
I was very, very lucky.
You know many, many otherchildren, romani children not
(47:32):
having the same luck, and alsofor that that I am a rebel
against discrimination, againstinjustice.
You know, against racism I canstand racism, I can support that
I need.
My soul can accept any kind ofdiscrimination.
(47:59):
So my soul, my heart, rebelsagainst that.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I mean, you have such an important message to share
of love and also, you know,fighting against injustice.
Where can people find you?
Do you have a website you wantpeople to find you?
Do you have a favorite placewhere people can listen to your
music?
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Many, many In the concert.
What happened?
What happened?
Any time that I enter on thestage, you know, and from behind
the stage when I see the public, the theater is full.
(48:52):
Always I say to my colleague,my young colleague, you know the
miracle is done.
Also this night I told them why.
Because it's a miracle when youarrive on stage and you can
(49:13):
find a public for you that payto listen to you.
That is a great miracle.
It's not for any artist that, agood artist also.
So for any time I take mycolleague, my young colleague,
(49:37):
and say then you see it tonightalso, the miracle.
We have a miracle, we have apublic.
And so please give us, givethem all what we have inside us
in performing in the best way,because the public deserves all
(49:58):
the best way, because the publicdeserves all the best.
It is my ticket, this is what Ido anytime.
I think the public give meenergy and I give them my energy
and all my group of theorchestra.
It depends if we playtraditional or ethnic music or
(50:24):
the symphonic music.
You know it's a different style, it's a different energy, but
the force of Romani music is thesame.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Ah, beautiful.
Well, we will put the links foreverything in the show notes so
people can find you.
Thank you so much for comingand speaking with us.
This was so fun, yeah we reallyreally appreciate.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
No, thank you for this opportunity to speak, uh,
about my passion.
That is, became my professional.
Music is something that I loveso much and you know the
university in Vienna on 22 Mayinvited me as a special guest to
(51:07):
speak about Romani music at theuniversity.
So I go there with all mysatisfaction and to bring my
contribution to promote ourmusic, our world, because music
(51:30):
is a Romani word, romani word isin our music, and I hope that
also in the future the peoplecan love our music and our art.
You can unload my music, mypersonal music, from the
(51:54):
international platforms.
You know music platform, thebest one in all the world, and
my publisher, music publisher,music publisher distributes my
music in all the world, so it'svery easy to meet my music, the
(52:14):
video of my group interview, etc.
So I hope also one day to havethe opportunity to stay with you
again, like in Romania, inSibiu, with our very, very nice
(52:39):
sister, luminitsa Mihaly Chlaba.
That is a great, great poet,you know.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
One of my favorites.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Yeah, because you know, I teach also literature in
my during my course and mystudents love her so much With
Alia Krasnici, Bayrama Aliti,many, many, many Roma, but
(53:14):
Luminica is one of the bestTogether, of course, Papusha.
Papusha was our legend inliterature and in poetry mainly.
This is all, and I hope to meetyou again as soon as possible.
(53:36):
You know, the last week I had alesson, a class, you know, on
Romani music with the VermontUniversity on video online with
many, many students on videoonline with many, many students
(54:02):
with a Jonah I do not see if youknow Jonah, Jonah Steinberg.
The University is in SouthCarolina oh, okay cool.
Yes, last last week, with theslide, a real lesson, yeah, a
real lesson, yeah, a real lessonabout Romani music, and it was
(54:22):
a great, great success and Ihope to repeat that experience.
Yes, oh my God, we remain incontact.
Please don't I'll say inEnglish please to meet you again
.
To remain in contact.
Okay, this is very importantNot divide each other, but we
(54:47):
must remain in contact and tochange experience, information
about our world and also yourproduction, okay, your art
production.
It's very, very important.
And you must also take part tothe art competition,
(55:10):
international art competition,amico, rome in Italy.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Oh yeah, oh my goodness.
Yeah, Paulina and I want totravel so much and we'll do that
.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
I've never been in Italy, sorry.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
We would love to come see you.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
I went to Italy.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Have you never been in Italy?
Speaker 1 (55:28):
One time yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
When I was much younger, I was in Italy for a
little while and I loved it.
Where?
What city?
I went to?
Venice, Rome, florence I wentto Florence, and Ravello, oh
very well, yeah, you see, allItaly, a lot Beautiful,
beautiful.
I love it, now only.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
Abruzzo, where I live , abruzzo and Adriatic Coast.
The coast of Trabucchi is awonderful, wonderful place, so
when you want to spend someholiday, you can come in Italy.
Ok, we have a very good sunhere, very good and very good
(56:12):
music, romani music.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yes, the best in the world.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Thank you so much.
Paulina had to step awaybecause her daughter needed
something.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
Thank you very much because you give me the
opportunity to have it is toenjoy this.
Uh, this time it was a verygood time.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Thank you very much and thank you to your colleague,
young colleague yes, oh, mygoodness, so good to see you
again, and we'll be in touch forsure.
(56:52):
Take care, ciao, ciao, ciao,ciao.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Thank you for listening to Romanistan Podcast.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
You can find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook
at Romanistan Podcast and onTwitter at RomanistanPod, To
support us, join our Patreon forextra content or just donate to
our Ko-Fi fundraiser, ko-ficombackslash romanistan, and please
rate, review and subscribe.
(57:23):
It helps people find our show.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
it helps us so much you can follow jez on instagram
at jasminavantila and paulina atromani holistic.
You can get our book secrets ofromani fortune telling online
or wherever books are sold.
Visit romanistanpodcastcom forevents, educational resources
(57:45):
and more.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Email us at romanistanpodcast at gmailcom
for inquiries romanistan ishosted by jasmina Vontila and
Paulina Stevens, conceived of byPaulina Stevens, edited by
Victor Pachas, with music byVictor Pachas and artwork by
Elijah Vardo.
Welcome to Romanistan .
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We're your friendly neighborhood gypsies.
I'm Paulina and I'm Jez, andtoday we're here with Alexian
Santino Spinelli.
Musician, composer, writer,poet and university professor,
the first Italian Roma to beappointed the Comandatore of the
Italian Republic for artisticand cultural merits.
(00:30):
Spinelli, with the AlexianGroup, holds numerous concerts
in Italy and abroad.
With his son, gennaro, he isthe first Roma to have played at
the Teatro alla Scala in Milanand the Teatro San Carlo in
Naples, with the soloists of theScala and the San Carlo and the
Girosini Symphony Orchestra ofPesaro.
(00:51):
He has played worldwide forPope Benedict XVI and several
times for Pope Francis.
Founder and president of thecultural association Teem Romano
, he is the ambassador of Romaniculture in the world.
His poem Auschwitz is on theRoma Memorial in Berlin,
(01:12):
inaugurated with ChancellorAngela Merkel.
He currently teaches Romanilanguage and culture at La
Sapienza University in Rome.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yay, welcome.
We're so happy to have you here.
Thank you very much for yourinvitation.
It's a great pleasure and greathonor to stay with you today to
speak about our world, theRomani world.
You know that we love so much.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes, I mean, and you're the perfect person to
talk to about this Can you tellus a little more about yourself,
where you're from, where yourfamily's from and your visa?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Okay, to the oldest Roma community that arrived in
Italy in the 15th century.
My family settled in the southof Italy and here we remain.
My family arrived in theAbruzzo region.
(02:23):
Abruzzo is in the center partof Italy, on the Adriatic coast,
and I live in Lanciano, in theChieti province, near the
Adriatic coast.
Lanciano is a small town but itgave me the opportunity to live
(02:44):
tranquility after the tourneyall my work, so when I come back
to home I can have time for me,for my family and to relax here
very well.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's beautiful yeah .
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So we love to ask this question Do you consider
yourself a rebel?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Yeah, in the sense that I am against any form of
racism, any form ofdiscrimination, any form of
injustice, you know.
So in this sense, I am a goodrebel.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
That's an important thing to rebel against.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I mean, it's becoming so normalized, so we got to say
it sometimes.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
We would love to know more about your relationship
with music.
When did you start playing andwhat do you really love to
perform?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
music.
When did you start playing andwhat do you really love to
perform?
Yes, I started playing musicwhen I was young, thanks to my
father and that passion formusic, you know.
So I had this opportunity and Imust thank him for that great
(04:06):
opportunity.
When other Roma not have thesame opportunity, he gave me the
opportunity also to go toschool.
You know, that was my luck atthe time.
So I had the opportunity totake the instrument to become
(04:27):
what today I am.
I love music and I pass on myfamily, my children, the same
passion.
So I have the great pleasure toplay with my children my son,
gennaro, that is a great, greatviolinist, and my daughters, two
(04:50):
daughters, evideza, that playharps and Julia that plays cello
.
So my family is a musicalfamily.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
That is so sweet.
How would you describe thestyle of music that you usually
play?
Is it traditional music or doyou play a lot of different
kinds?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, traditional music, sure for sure.
But also my composition that isalso in Italian, romanese, our
language, our dialect, you know,is different from the other
dialect, so that influence alsomy way in which I play and
(05:37):
produce music.
So that is sure.
But I remain inside theinternational Romani music.
You know, if you want, my musicis influenced by the
Mediterranean and Balcanic style.
But I love music, of coursejazz, I love classical music, I
(06:01):
love in general ethnic music,but above all I love Romani
music in all forms, in allexpressions.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Very nice, and it's also super cool to have a whole
musical family.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, but you know I told before that my father
passed on to me his passion formusic and I pass on to my
children the passion for music,so we have the opportunity to
play together.
For example, we play for thePope Benedict XVI in 2012 in
(06:52):
Bresso, near Milan, worldwide,you know, on national television
and worldwide, in front of 1million people.
That means 4 kilometers ofpeople and with a great screen
to see all our performance.
(07:14):
It was a great, great, greatsatisfaction, but also a great
experience.
It was amazing emotion, youknow, and I can see you.
I can say you that I'm notashamed to say that when I came
back to the dressing room, Icried.
(07:38):
I cried for the satisfaction,for the commotion.
You know it was a real, veryparticular moment of my life.
Why?
Because I shared thisexperience with my children.
You know they support of thepressure of the media, of the
(08:06):
great event that they lived withme in that moment, with great
musicians like Noah you know,the Israeli singer, very great
artist, very well known in allthe world.
That's incredible I mean I sendyou the video of this experience
so you can see four kilometersof people, one million people
(08:27):
there.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I can't even imagine what did you play for the Pope?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I played my composition Pater Noster you
know, the Holy Father in theRoman language, in my dialect.
So I composed that many, manyyears ago and I had the
opportunity to offer thiscomposition, this song, to many
(08:57):
holy fathers that means BenedictXVI, but many, many times to
the Pope Francis I, and it was agreat emotion any time, you
know, particularly the PopeFrancis I was very, very, very.
(09:21):
He liked this song.
He liked it so much and thefirst time that he listened to
this composition he wassurprised, you know, to listen
in a different language.
The father, the paternoster,our father, you know, in the
(09:45):
Romani language.
It's very, very surprising forhim.
It was a great surprise for him, sure.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That is so powerful to be able to play that song in
our language, and so you got tospeak to him.
You got to talk to him and meethim and everything.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, I speak with him in italian, of course.
Yeah, in romanese, right, butbecause you know our language, I
have the honor to to teach ourlanguage and culture at the
university, in la sapienza, in r, and our language, you know,
(10:25):
can survive only if the otherpeople can learn, only if our
language can be promoted in alldirections and at the old level.
But many times, you know, ourlanguage is discriminated, you
(10:48):
know from the institution.
For example, in Italy, you knowthere is a law that protects 12
minorities, 12 minorities,language and culture of 12
minorities, but not the Romaminority.
That is a great, greatinjustice and many times I
(11:13):
underlined that it's very, veryimportant to promote, to include
our language and culture inthat law or create a specific
law for our language, for ourculture, because we have the
right to live with our culture.
(11:38):
That is a wonderful culture.
That is a wonderful culture,wonderful language that comes
from, as you know, from, theorigin, is Indian origin.
So it's absurd today that ourlanguage is not supported by the
Italian institution,institution.
(12:03):
So I hope very, very soon canchange this situation.
Before you ask me if I am arebel, yes, I am a rebel because
I want to promote, to supportour language and our history,
(12:25):
our culture.
Why?
Because it is a human beingpatrimony, you know it belongs,
our language belongs to thehumanity and it's very important
to promote it at all levels.
We need that.
You know, and many times, manytimes you know, our world,
(12:51):
romani world, is seen onlythrough the stereotypes.
That is not good for us.
It's not good because serotypesdo not include our character,
our world.
In the majority, society.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We actually we think it's really amazing that you
teach Romanes.
Yes, I teach Romanes.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
I teach roman language, romanes um.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
We were wondering what do you feel about our
language being more accessible,like through google translate,
different classes, um and othermethods, like?
What's your opinion on that?
Speaker 3 (14:04):
Yes, I am.
I believe I told before.
I believe that only if wesupport and promote our language
our language can survive.
Otherwise it risks disappearing.
Yeah, that is the riskdisappearing.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Do you teach specifically?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
This is not good for human being, you know, because,
as I told before, our culture ispart of the human treasure.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, it is.
I was wondering do you teachthe dialect that's spoken most
in Italy, or do you teach otherdialects?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
No, no, no, I teach international Roman language,
but also with the example, withour dialect.
You know our Italian dialectbecause it's not so different,
but they are different becausethe word is the same.
For example, I don't know maro.
(15:18):
Maro is bread.
You know maro, but we say maro.
The other people say maro ormanro or manro, but the word is
the same.
Yeah, the lexical is the samebut it's different.
The grammar is just a littledifferent.
(15:40):
It's a main dialect.
You know, the Romano languageis unique, but it's divided in
many, many dialects, differentdialects, and many times these
dialects do not understand eachother.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, it's so interesting because there's such
a big debate about the Romanilanguage being accessible
through Google Translate andsome people are saying that
maybe they're afraid thatcertain dialects will get left
behind and people will only knowthe popular ones.
But do you have opinions abouthow people should preserve
dialects?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
No, the Google translation is not so good for a
Romani language because thereare a lot of wrong, you know.
Oh, there is a problem tounderstand what Google want from
Roma people, but it's okay.
(16:44):
As I told before, it's very,very important to promote.
It's not important, but we needto promote our language at all
levels.
Okay, through the socialnetwork, google course to
university, in private course onprivate convention or seminar.
(17:10):
You know, it's very importantto promote the truth.
That means history, culture,language I don't know literature
, filmography, etc.
Etc.
What is very important topromote is the truth about Roma
(17:34):
and to overtake the stereotypes,because there are too many
stereotypes that come from thediscrimination, stereotype that
comes from discrimination.
So we must eliminate, cancelthe discrimination and the
stereotype and to promote thetruth about the Roma community.
(18:01):
There are a lot of things very,very positive in our life and
culture, like music, for example.
No, you know, it's a greatcontribution of Roma people to
the classical music in Europeduring the Romantic era.
(18:23):
You know, the great composer,european composer, like Fran
Liste, like Joan Brahms, likeFranz Schubert and many, many
others, take from Roma theirmusical patrimony, music
patrimony, you know, and put itin the classic music Great,
(18:47):
great valorization, but notrecognition to the Roma this
great merit.
You know the great, greatcontribution.
And until now Roma music iscataloged as folkloristic music.
No, roma music is cataloged asfolkloristic music.
No, roman music is art, it's agreat art, like flamenco in
(19:14):
Spain Without Roma, thecontribution of Roma in Spain,
never the flamenco can be bebecame what it is now, you know,
like volcanic Roma music orEast European Roma music or the
(19:35):
great jazz manouche music.
You know that comes from DjangoReinhardt, the great genius.
Many, many um rom artistsduring the history of humanity
were a great, great genius, youknow, and one of that is a
(19:59):
jungle reiner.
So the romani music is very,very important, in a different
style, in different expression,and music itself is poetry, like
the colors of the painting aremusic at the same time.
(20:20):
That means that there is aclose connection between all
kinds of arts.
Why?
Because they come from thehuman South.
That's the expression of thehuman heart and sound.
(20:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
We actually wanted to ask what do you think is
special about Romani art,specifically their art, music
and our writing?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
our writing.
Music is one of the mostimportant expressions of the
Roma community.
You know that gives us theopportunity to keep and preserve
(22:08):
our culture.
Without music, maybe romanromanian population not would
have the opportunity to preserveand keep art, language and our
world.
So I think that music was oneof the most important
(22:35):
instruments to keep and toconserve our identity.
What we say we call Romani pen.
Okay, without music we have notRomani pen.
It's a part, a very importantpart, of Romani music.
(22:56):
Romani music is the life, heartof our identity.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Do you have any suggestions for listeners who
maybe aren't that familiar withRomani music?
Who should they listen to toget started?
Speaker 3 (23:17):
No, all kinds of music is good, all kinds of
music, form of music, romanimusic is good, very, very good.
There are many, many styles.
There are many, many, manydifferent expressions of Romani
music is good, very, very good.
There are many, many styles.
You know many, many, manydifferent expressions of Romani
music, but all of them is verygood.
Now there is a very importantpassage.
(23:39):
If you want, it's a very.
I think that it's revolutionary.
It's the new step that wefollow, you know, from
folklorism to symphonism, FromRomani folklore to the
(24:00):
symphonism.
We reach that and we must go ontoward the ethno-symphonism.
What means that?
Mean and I am included in thisdirection, in this I would say
travel.
What does ethno-symphonies mean?
(24:22):
It's not only the music of aspecific community, roma
community, but in European Romamusic that we are not.
We have a different styleflamenco, volcanic, east Europe,
(24:44):
jazz, manhout, but not a realEuropean Roman music.
And I am involved in thisprocess to promote a real
European Roman music.
My production, my lastproduction, is that From in the
(25:05):
past, the folklore give us theopportunity to keep and to
conserve our identity, but nowwe can, must, develop all that
in a other form of music.
We must include in our musicalso also element from different
(25:30):
European composers, what theEuropean composers during the
Romantic era made.
That means take our music andput it in the classical music we
must make.
On the contrary, take fromdifferent European composers
some element European Europeanelements and to put it in our
(25:54):
music.
That is my work now, you know,and I produce with the Grutter
symphonic orchestra, rocini,gioacchino Rocini symphony
orchestra.
I produce a new CD that you canunload from the best music
(26:16):
platform like Team Music,spotify, etc.
Etc.
Okay, you can take that.
And Alexian Group and RossiniOrchestra with this
Romano-Etrano-Symphonic Anodrom.
That means the journey throughthe Romani music,
(26:39):
etrano-symphonic Romani music.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
That is so exciting, this idea of very meaningfully
borrowing the way that we'vebeen borrowed from and kind of
writing us back into the canon.
Is it different, is it adifferent process writing music
than it is writing poetry, or doyou feel like those two parts
of your brain are connected?
Speaker 3 (27:03):
yeah, yeah, it's connected.
It's closed, you know, because,as I told before, I come from
the same southern heart, so it'sdifferent expression of the
same, uh, sensitivity sointeresting.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Um, you have had such a fascinating life.
In general, I feel like wecould ask you about anything and
you would have a great story totell and teach us something,
and you're a good storyteller.
Is there any story you justlove to tell about your
experiences in life and musicand art with your family, or all
of those things?
Speaker 3 (27:43):
Yeah, my experience, one of the best experience in my
life was when I play with myson in uh teatro.
La scala in milan, you know, isthe is the temple of the
mundial music and play for thefirst time.
(28:06):
Like I and my son, we are thefirst Roma that, as a soloist,
arrived at this level.
Never before in the 6th centurydid Roma reach the Scala in
(28:27):
Milan.
That is a great honor but alsoa great responsibility for us.
In the Scala you can triumph ordeath from a musical point of
view.
You know if the criticmassacrate you, but the good God
(28:48):
save us.
And the critic was very, very,very positive because we bring
our natural music, you know, ourharmony, our very expressive
art in the temple of the mundialmusic and with Triumph, triumph
(29:13):
did that and gave us this greatsatisfaction.
And I am also the first composer, you know, because in the
poster is my composition Romanodi Vese, that means the great
part of Roma.
Romano di Vese, romanese.
(29:34):
You know, this is the firstcomposition that enters this
great place.
And in the poster there is thename of Brahms, because we play
the music of Brahms, liszt,bizet and traditional Romani
(29:58):
music and also my compositionRomano di Vesca by Santino
Spinelli.
That is a great result, notonly for me you know, it's not
an individual enrichment but allmy people, all Roma from all
(30:18):
the world.
You know this is what we do forour son, gennaro that bring the
Romani flag on the Mount ofEverest.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
We have to hear more about that.
We were going to ask abouteverything.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
It's not individual event.
It's not individual event butit's collective.
It's all our population at thesame time and all Roma from all
over the world was meeting andat the same time, pride of that
(31:03):
event.
You know it's the same for uswhen we played in uh theater
alaskana de milano, because romafrom all the world send us
message to congratulate with us.
You know, at the same time, inthis, the, the very important,
(31:35):
very, very, very importanttheater of San Carlo in Naples.
You know, san Carlo, it was thefirst theater in Europe.
All the theater that came aftertake it as model.
San Carlo theater was the modelfor the future.
Before there is only the hallfor concert, not theater, all
(32:01):
for concert.
After that was born San Carlotheater, all Europe built
theater with the same model.
They take this practice.
Okay, so for us, for me, for myson, for my family, it was a
(32:28):
great honor but also a greatresponsibility.
Not only for my family, it wasa great honor but also a great
responsibility not only for my,of course, a great satisfaction
not only from an individualpoint of view but as a
representative of our communityin all the world and in fact,
from all the world can make suchworld and in fact from all the
(32:50):
world come mixage to compliment.
You know, to say thank you,santino, for that work.
I am with you for the work.
My son from the Montavers isnot easy to go there, you know.
No, it's very, very difficultto go with a Romani flag to go
(33:17):
there.
It was also dangerous, verydangerous Were you nervous.
From a physical point of view.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, were you nervous about him climbing up?
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, of course, very , very scared.
I was worried all the time.
Three weeks I couldn't sleep inthe night.
You know I was very, very, veryscared because I know the
dangerous that, what mean tostay at six, seven meters, you
(33:58):
know, without oxygen, and it'svery, very dangerous.
Also, because you know the miniis very, it's very high.
You know the mini is very high.
You know the path is verynarrow, the street is very, very
narrow.
It's 150 kilometers to go up.
(34:22):
It's not easy.
It's not easy, absolutely.
It was needed three weeks toarrive there and I and my wife,
of course, we were scared, wewere in anxiety.
(34:43):
You know, all the time I wasreally afraid for that all the
time I was really afraid forthat.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I would be too.
And then when we saw the newsarticle because, of course, like
paulina, and I didn't know thatwas happening you were afraid
for three weeks.
We just saw the article and Icouldn't believe it.
I had to actually read it a fewtimes.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
I was like, wow, that's so incredible yeah,
because I I do only what I feel.
This is my freedom.
I can't do something in which Idon't believe.
What I do is what in which Ibelieve.
(35:23):
So my passion is my star that Ifollow.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I love that.
Do you have any advice foryoung roma with a dream who are
trying to figure out?
You know how do they follow apath like yours.
Like what's your best advice?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
Because many sacrifice the talent is not
enough to reach results.
You know, it's a very, veryimportant sacrifice and I would
say, in English, work.
(36:33):
It's very important to workevery day so hard.
Without very hard work,sacrifice, it's impossible to
reach something.
It's not enough the talent.
Talent is good to help you toarrive at a certain level before
(36:56):
the other, but it's not enoughto go on.
So I suggest to the youngpeople to love what they do and
believe in something and to havedreams, because if you work so
(37:21):
hard, you can take your dreamand translate them into reality,
and translate them in reality.
Okay, a dream is possible.
To transform dreams in reality,but only with sacrifice, with
(37:41):
hard work, that is sure, butafter it's also more
satisfaction.
If you reach something withoutsacrifice, you know it's not
only, it's not satisfaction,satisfaction comes from the hard
work.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
We definitely agree.
What do you have coming up onthe horizon that you would like
our listeners to know about?
Are there any projects you'recurrently working on?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah, as I told you before, I am involved now to
promote not only traditionalmusic but also ethno-symphonic
music.
It is a new step, a new process, because we must go on without
(38:39):
stereotypes.
Many times, you know,folklorism reinforces the
stereotype.
The ethnosymphonies give usrespect.
That is the difference.
So I am involved to promote art, culture, language, history of
(39:01):
our people.
But also I want to give mypersonal contribution for a new
process in the Romani art.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
That's such an amazing undertaking and we just
love that about you.
You're a big dreamer and thenyou do with that.
We always ask this question.
I think I might have forgottento give you a heads up, but we
ask a question who is yourfavorite or who is your Romani
crush?
Which just means like, who's aRomani person who you really
admire, who you would like toshout their name out so people
(39:36):
can go listen to them or learnmore about them.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
I had the opportunity and the lucky to know Raiko
Djuric.
That is that.
But it was really a great greatRoma intellectual, a Roma
artist, you know, a great poetand a great, great great person.
(40:02):
I was very, very young when Ilearned from him so much during
a summer school, a Romani summerschool in Rome.
I was very young in that timeand he taught me so much.
Also, marcel Courtiart taughtme so much, indirectly, also Jan
(40:28):
Hancock, you know.
So there is a lot of Romanipeople that we must say thank
you to, these great Romanipeople that honored our culture
and our language, our world.
You know, and from a musicalpoint of view, I admit I have
(40:55):
the honor to share the stagewith the great singer, esma
Recepova.
I share the.
That is in Podgorica, you know,in the Montenegro, the state of
(41:17):
Montenegro, in the NationalTheater in Podgorica, we hold a
concert together, sharing thestage At the same time in France
, for example, with the great,great, great, great great
musician, martin Weiss, thatplay violin at the great, great,
(41:38):
great, great, great musicianMartin Weiss that play violin at
the contrary, but was a genius,really a great genius, genius.
And another genius that I meetand I hear the stage is still
alive is Robby Lakatos inJurmala in Latvia some years ago
(42:04):
.
But I had the lucky to meet alot of great musicians and I
played, for example, for sevenyears with Mari Scherban, one of
the greatest symbolists youknow symbol, the symbol is a but
(42:24):
he lived in Italy for many,many years and for seven years
(42:52):
we collaborated with my groupand we make a lot of
extraordinary, amazing concertstogether in all Europe.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Oh, that is so fascinating.
I love that you got to meet somany of your heroes.
That's wonderful.
I feel like that's what we getto do every month.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
You know, you are very young, but I am an old man.
Yes, I am an old man, yes, I aman old man, so I have a lot of
experience.
But, you know, when you becomeold you see the life from
another perspective, anotherview, visual, you know.
(43:34):
But when you are young you havenot the good experience,
experience but you have a lot offorce.
You know energy.
Now, when you became old, okay,you have not energy, but a lot
of experience it evens out, yes,but I can play for that.
(44:03):
But because I'm very, very luckyto have a wonderful, really
wonderful family, that is a realmy treasure, is a real success
in the life, you know, is myfamily, my two daughter, my wife
and my son.
My sister and I had twowonderful, wonderful parents my
(44:30):
mommy, my mom, julia, that isthat, and my father is that, and
my father, genaro, and that isthat, and my son, julia, bring
the name of his grandmother andthe genaro bring the name of his
.
His grand is grandfather.
So my parents still live in inmy, in the name of my, my son.
(44:56):
That's our tradition in theItalian Roma community.
This is a tradition for us.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
That is so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
It's part of our tradition.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, when I met you in Romania years ago at
Luminita's festival, which wasincredible and life-changing-
one of the things.
I just took away most about youis how warmly you speak about
your family.
I love hearing about all thethings you do with them.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
My family is my treasure.
You know, in all Roma family,without family we cannot survive
, you know.
In any time family, the focalpoint of Romani culture.
Our woman is the real, thegreat, I would say, treasure of
(45:54):
Romani family.
Our woman is very, veryimportant.
I am lucky to have five sisters.
Oh, wow.
And I am the only man of thefamily and the last one, you
know, the youngest, the baby.
So I had also two brothers andtwo sisters that unfortunately
(46:22):
they died.
My mom had ten children.
We remained six, five sistersand I.
They live in my function, youknow.
They protect me.
One of my, the secret of mysuccess in my life was my family
(46:45):
, was my five sisters and mymother, six Romani women.
You understand what I mean isan army, a great army that
protect me from the externaldangers.
That is the truth.
It's only the truth.
(47:07):
I always say that.
I underline that my family wasmy real support, my real
successful in my triumph in life.
I was very, very lucky.
You know many, many otherchildren, romani children not
(47:32):
having the same luck, and alsofor that that I am a rebel
against discrimination, againstinjustice.
You know, against racism I canstand racism, I can support that
I need.
My soul can accept any kind ofdiscrimination.
(47:59):
So my soul, my heart, rebelsagainst that.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I mean, you have such an important message to share
of love and also, you know,fighting against injustice.
Where can people find you?
Do you have a website you wantpeople to find you?
Do you have a favorite placewhere people can listen to your
music?
Speaker 3 (48:30):
Many, many In the concert.
What happened?
What happened?
Any time that I enter on thestage, you know, and from behind
the stage when I see the public, the theater is full.
(48:52):
Always I say to my colleague,my young colleague, you know the
miracle is done.
Also this night I told them why.
Because it's a miracle when youarrive on stage and you can
(49:13):
find a public for you that payto listen to you.
That is a great miracle.
It's not for any artist that, agood artist also.
So for any time I take mycolleague, my young colleague,
(49:37):
and say then you see it tonightalso, the miracle.
We have a miracle, we have apublic.
And so please give us, givethem all what we have inside us
in performing in the best way,because the public deserves all
(49:58):
the best way, because the publicdeserves all the best.
It is my ticket, this is what Ido anytime.
I think the public give meenergy and I give them my energy
and all my group of theorchestra.
It depends if we playtraditional or ethnic music or
(50:24):
the symphonic music.
You know it's a different style, it's a different energy, but
the force of Romani music is thesame.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Ah, beautiful.
Well, we will put the links foreverything in the show notes so
people can find you.
Thank you so much for comingand speaking with us.
This was so fun, yeah we reallyreally appreciate.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
No, thank you for this opportunity to speak, uh,
about my passion.
That is, became my professional.
Music is something that I loveso much and you know the
university in Vienna on 22 Mayinvited me as a special guest to
(51:07):
speak about Romani music at theuniversity.
So I go there with all mysatisfaction and to bring my
contribution to promote ourmusic, our world, because music
(51:30):
is a Romani word, romani word isin our music, and I hope that
also in the future the peoplecan love our music and our art.
You can unload my music, mypersonal music, from the
(51:54):
international platforms.
You know music platform, thebest one in all the world, and
my publisher, music publisher,music publisher distributes my
music in all the world, so it'svery easy to meet my music, the
(52:14):
video of my group interview, etc.
So I hope also one day to havethe opportunity to stay with you
again, like in Romania, inSibiu, with our very, very nice
(52:39):
sister, luminitsa Mihaly Chlaba.
That is a great, great poet,you know.
Speaker 2 (52:49):
One of my favorites.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
Yeah, because you know, I teach also literature in
my during my course and mystudents love her so much With
Alia Krasnici, Bayrama Aliti,many, many, many Roma, but
(53:14):
Luminica is one of the bestTogether, of course, Papusha.
Papusha was our legend inliterature and in poetry mainly.
This is all, and I hope to meetyou again as soon as possible.
(53:36):
You know, the last week I had alesson, a class, you know, on
Romani music with the VermontUniversity on video online with
many, many students on videoonline with many, many students
(54:02):
with a Jonah I do not see if youknow Jonah, Jonah Steinberg.
The University is in SouthCarolina oh, okay cool.
Yes, last last week, with theslide, a real lesson, yeah, a
real lesson, yeah, a real lessonabout Romani music, and it was
(54:22):
a great, great success and Ihope to repeat that experience.
Yes, oh my God, we remain incontact.
Please don't I'll say inEnglish please to meet you again
.
To remain in contact.
Okay, this is very importantNot divide each other, but we
(54:47):
must remain in contact and tochange experience, information
about our world and also yourproduction, okay, your art
production.
It's very, very important.
And you must also take part tothe art competition,
(55:10):
international art competition,amico, rome in Italy.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
Oh yeah, oh my goodness.
Yeah, Paulina and I want totravel so much and we'll do that
.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
I've never been in Italy, sorry.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
We would love to come see you.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
I went to Italy.
Speaker 2 (55:26):
Have you never been in Italy?
Speaker 1 (55:28):
One time yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
When I was much younger, I was in Italy for a
little while and I loved it.
Where?
What city?
I went to?
Venice, Rome, florence I wentto Florence, and Ravello, oh
very well, yeah, you see, allItaly, a lot Beautiful,
beautiful.
I love it, now only.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
Abruzzo, where I live , abruzzo and Adriatic Coast.
The coast of Trabucchi is awonderful, wonderful place, so
when you want to spend someholiday, you can come in Italy.
Ok, we have a very good sunhere, very good and very good
(56:12):
music, romani music.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yes, the best in the world.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Thank you so much.
Paulina had to step awaybecause her daughter needed
something.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
Thank you very much because you give me the
opportunity to have it is toenjoy this.
Uh, this time it was a verygood time.
Speaker 2 (56:31):
Thank you very much and thank you to your colleague,
young colleague yes, oh, mygoodness, so good to see you
again, and we'll be in touch forsure.
(56:52):
Take care, ciao, ciao, ciao,ciao.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Thank you for listening to Romanistan Podcast.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
You can find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook
at Romanistan Podcast and onTwitter at RomanistanPod, To
support us, join our Patreon forextra content or just donate to
our Ko-Fi fundraiser, ko-ficombackslash romanistan, and please
rate, review and subscribe.
(57:23):
It helps people find our show.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
it helps us so much you can follow jez on instagram
at jasminavantila and paulina atromani holistic.
You can get our book secrets ofromani fortune telling online
or wherever books are sold.
Visit romanistanpodcastcom forevents, educational resources
(57:45):
and more.
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Email us at romanistanpodcast at gmailcom
for inquiries romanistan ishosted by jasmina Vontila and
Paulina Stevens, conceived of byPaulina Stevens, edited by
Victor Pachas, with music byVictor Pachas and artwork by
Elijah Vardo.
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