January 19, 2025 • 43 mins
Nancy Black is the alter ego of the journalist and activist Gilda-Nancy Horvath, a Romni from Vienna, Austria. She writes poems in Romanes, English and German which are sometimes translated to music, mainly rap music. Her rap-poem "Trushula" (Crosses) states clearly that the danger of dark history repeating is always present - and that even people from marginalized groups are not safe from being seduced by the very simple answers that far-rights give, which are rooted in fear, hate and anger. Beyond this, she is creator of many projects and consulting governments and politicians.
A few of Gilda's many Romani crushes are Charlie Chaplin, Alina Serban, Kali Michaela, Niko G, all the Romani journalists, Dalibor Tanic and his reporting on the Balkans, and everyone in Gilda's portrait series "Glaso," Cat Jugravo, and the Roma Armee with Sandra Selimović and Simonida Selimović.
Works sampled in this episode are as follows:
"Presidenurija," Love Revolution, Nancy Black
"Trushula," Love Revolution, Nancy Black
"Überschein," unreleased track from a live jam with Nancy Black and the Prizreni Brothers
"Dear Ancestors" by Nancy Black, initially written for a project by Cat Jugravo
Follow Gilda Horvath @nancyblack101
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Romanistan is hosted by Jezmina Von Thiele and Paulina Stevens
Conceived of by Paulina Stevens
Edited by Viktor Pachas
With Music by Viktor Pachas
And Artwork by Elijah Vardo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paulina (00:07):
Welcome to Romanistan.
Jezmina (00:09):
We're your friendly neighborhood gypsies.
Paulina (00:12):
I'm Paulina.
Jezmina (00:13):
And I'm Jez, and we're here with Gilda Horvat, also
known as rapper Nancy Black.
Paulina (00:22):
Yay, nice to have you.
Nancy Black is the alter ego ofthe journalist and activist
Gilda Nancy Horvath.
A Romani from Vienna, austria,she is writing poems in
Romanesque, english and German,which are sometimes translated
to music, mainly rap music.
(00:42):
Her rap poem Drushullah, whichtranslates to crosses, states
clearly that the danger of thedark history repeating is always
present and that even peoplefrom marginalized groups are not
safe to be seduced by the verysimple answers far-rights give,
rooted in fear, hate and angerbeyond.
(01:04):
She is the creator of manyprojects and consulting
governments and politicians.
Thank you for being here.
Can you maybe tell us whereyou're from, where your family's
from and what your beat says?
Nancy Black (01:22):
yeah hi, I'm nancy black, aka real name, gilda
nancy horvath.
I'm very honored for having metoday in the romanistan podcast,
everybody who is listening.
I'm coming from austriaoriginally, which is not
australia, not to confuse that.
It's a very small country quitecenter in Europe.
(01:45):
This is where I'm born, where Igrew up, coming from the group
of the Lovara, which isHungarian Romani people rooted.
Yeah, and I guess that's whatto say about my national roots,
my born roots born with.
Jezmina (02:07):
Yes, we are so excited that you're with us because
we've been following your careerfor a while and just being a
fan of you in general, and wealways love to ask our guests do
you consider yourself a rebel?
Nancy Black (02:16):
Well, I don't consider myself a rebel, I
consider myself a realist, quiterealistic seeing all the
developments in the world drivenby politics, driven by hate,
driven by fear.
So I consider myself a realistin that case that I think that
(02:36):
we need to use our publicpresence to amplify the voices
of those who are not heard inthe public because they don't
have the reach.
They not heard in the publicbecause they don't have the
reach, they don't have the money, they don't have the platforms.
So I think it's a kind ofrealist responsibility, if by
luck or by hard work or both, wehave the privilege to become
(03:00):
public voices, to use that voiceto amplify the voices of others
.
Jezmina (03:07):
That is such a wonderful distinction, because
you know you mentioned this inyour bio that it's easy even for
minority groups to be seducedby fascism, and it is important
that we're realists and maybe inthis case the language of being
a rebel isn't helpful.
(03:27):
That's really.
I mean in America, for instance,Paulina and I were really
shocked by how many Romanipeople were celebrating that
Trump won, shocked and notshocked, but also it was just so
disappointing.
And I'm not.
I don't really know what thatlooks like in Europe.
You know, I, we don't haveexperience with that.
Do you want to speak to that alittle bit, what that looks like
in Europe?
You know we don't haveexperience with that.
Nancy Black (03:48):
Do you want to speak to that a little bit?
Well, yes, and this is maybealso why I don't want to be
myself considered as a rebel,because far-right people
propagandist people, theyconsider themselves rebels like
Donald Trump was considered arebel, or people like Andrew
Tate, who really promote a toxicway of being and living, they
consider themselves as rebelsand they rebel against something
(04:10):
that is not even real.
They rebel against an illusionthat they construct and make us
believe.
And yes, the developments inAmerica are the developments all
over the globe, also in Europe.
For example, right now, elonMusk will very soon host a
conversation on X with AliceWeidel.
(04:34):
Alice Weidel is the leader ofthe far-right party in Germany,
the AfD, so we can see that thisis interconnected and I'm
shocked that many people don'tsee the interrelation that
far-right parties all over theglobe are connected using the
same wording, using the samephrases, using the same
(04:54):
propaganda and, in fact, usingthe same money, also mainly
coming from, for example,russian media agencies.
So there is a big picture thatmany people are not able to see
and actually that's really,really dangerous, because our
democracies are rumbling.
(05:14):
In Austria right now, maybe thefar-right leader, herbert
Kickler, is becoming chancellor.
So this is, right now, a veryrealistic option.
In Austria, there are many Romawho consider leaving Germany,
who think about leaving Austriabecause of these developments.
So this is a global trend, avery threatening trend and a
(05:40):
real danger.
Jezmina (05:42):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that.
And in that vein, you have suchan impressive background in
German.
Sorry, I'm going to say thatagain.
You have such an impressivebackground in journalism, from
your start in grassrootsprojects in the Romani community
in Austria to 10 years at theAustrian Public National
Broadcaster ORF.
You've done a lot of freelanceprojects for Roma and much more,
(06:05):
and there's so much to talkabout on the topic of Romani
involvement and representationin the media.
It's kind of hard to know whereto start.
So what would you likelisteners to know about your
experience and insights as aRomani journalist advocating for
Romani rights?
Nancy Black (06:20):
Well, maybe let's start with the most
controversial thing.
So right now, I'm active sincemore than 20 years.
I started out when I wasapproximately 17, starting in
journalism at the PublicNational ORF, and I was
approximately in the beginningof my 20s, like 23, 24 years old
and after 20 years doing this,I can say that and this might be
(06:44):
unpopular what I'm saying rightnow but I think we have to
leave the focus into ourminority communities.
I love being active for theRomani community.
I'm proud being Romani andalways was out there as a person
, as a Roma person making rap inRomani language.
(07:04):
So I think there's no doubtthat I'm super proud
representing Romani culture.
But on the other hand, I seethat the system is dividing us.
It's dividing the oppressedgroups.
There is the Muslim groups,there is the LGBTQ community,
there is the black people, thereis the brown people.
There is the black people,there is the brown people, there
(07:25):
is the poor people.
So we are divided by manydifferent layers and politics
and power is segregating us.
Just to put up one example I'mgoing to a conference against
anti-Gypsyism or anti-Syrianism.
Another person another Jess,another Paulina, another Gilda
is joining a conference onMuslimophobia.
(07:48):
A third Jess, paulina or Gildais joining a conference against
homophobia and so on.
And if you join theseconferences, we all have the
same problems, we all strugglethe same patterns, we all have
the same wishes for the future,but we stay divided by these
(08:10):
different conferences, bydifferent channels of funding
and this kind of system.
It holds us back from unitingall the oppressed groups who
struggle the very same problems.
But while we stay in our smallcommunity, like the Romani
community activism, theMuslimophobia activism, the
(08:34):
anti-LGBTQ activism, we neverunite on a meta level.
And what I'm trying to do inthe future in the next project,
is actually leaving this kind ofsmall activism and going to
much stronger networking withthose people who fight for other
(08:54):
communities and also the fightagainst destructive capitalism
became a very important thingbecause everybody who is an
activist is in a very privilegedsituation.
You must afford it to be anactivist.
If you struggle with youreveryday money, if you don't
have enough to eat, if you don'tknow how to care for your
(09:17):
family and your children, youhave no time to be a political
activist.
So the main division in societyis between the rich and the
poor, and identity politicsnowadays is just used by the far
right to separate us theactivists or the civil society
(10:07):
activist people.
Paulina (10:08):
Yeah, that sounds like a lot.
It kind of I, I am just a darkperson.
So I want to ask this nextquestion um, it's okay for you
to, you know, to be like ashonest as you want to be, I
would say, but I want to askjust throughout your activism
(10:30):
work, or even throughout yourcareer, what do you think has
caused the most controversy, um,during your career, and how
have you handled that, andwhether that includes
controversy coming fromobviously outside the culture or
even sometimes inside thecommunity, just because we know
how that can be well, to startwith the inside, the community.
Nancy Black (10:54):
I think I share the struggle that many women feel
in their lives when they arebecoming independent entities,
when they take on a job, whenthey become just an independent
entity as a human being.
For sure, in more conservativefamilies not in every Romani
family, but in many conservativecommunities we struggle the
(11:16):
problem of not immediatelyhaving a marriage and becoming a
mother.
So I think this is still quitestigmatized being an individual
that chooses to have anindividual life and putting her
own life as a priority and notimmediately become married or
become independent by somebodyelse in financial, but also in
(11:40):
mental and mindset means.
And for many families it's nota problem of intolerance.
But I understand that manymothers and many fathers are
concerned about the future oftheir daughters because there is
still the fact that we don'treceive the same money paid for
the same work, we don't receivethe same recognition as our male
(12:03):
counterparts do.
So it's hard out there stillfor women today, especially for
a woman from a minoritycommunity.
So this is the inside struggle.
The outside struggle was I'mopen anti-fascist and I think
everybody should be, especiallycoming from Austria.
We have a certain history withHitler and the Holocaust, so
(12:26):
people who don't know this aregoing out there to young people.
If you don't know what thatmeans, please Google that,
inform yourself, learn history.
So the struggle that I had withthe external environment was
when I had to release Truffula,which is a song about having
Nazis also inside the Romanicommunity, and it was based on
(12:47):
the true story that washappening to me.
When we had presidentialelections in 2017 in Austria,
there was Romani peoplecollaborating with the far-right
party, and I started protestingagainst that, and they made a
press release saying all theRomani people will vote for the
far-right candidate, which was alie.
(13:08):
Sure, it was fake news.
However, they released a videoabout me that was lying about me
, harassing me, calling me aliar.
It was talking about me havingmillions of euros that vanished
somewhere, and they really triedto destroy my public person as
(13:33):
a journalist and as a humanbeing, and what I did then was I
was thinking about how can Irespond to that without being a
victim?
So I created Nancy Black as arapper.
I sat down in front of thecomputer and I was writing the
Trusula rap, in which I actuallydescribed the development of
(13:55):
Romani people collaborating withNazis and what that means to us
and the first video versionthat was online only for a few
weeks.
It was actually showing onlypictures of different memorials
of Auschwitz, of Jasenovac, ofall these places where our
people were killed in thebackground.
So actually it was blocked byFacebook after a few weeks, sure
(14:20):
, but I released it and suddenlythousands of people started
defending me online.
So all the people who sawTrushula became like an army
against the anti-fascists andalso against those who were
lying against me, and it wasvery much more successful than I
(14:40):
thought.
I received a lot of support bythousands of people 10 years ago
on Facebook, and this is howNancy Black was actually born.
And since that day, nazis neverattempted me publicly, but since
that day, every homepage Ireleased gets hacked in between
four days.
This is if people out there askthemselves why I have no
(15:03):
homepage.
It's because each time I starta new homepage it becomes hacked
instantly, like I'm superblacklisted in all the Nazi
forums, all the far-rightactivist forums, which is
actually an honor.
But it's actually a pitybecause projects like the Rome
(15:23):
blog, for example, I had tostart it already three times
because the website gets hackedagain and again and again.
Jezmina (15:32):
Wow, it's incredible that you created a piece of art
that people are still talkingabout and are still so
threatened by that.
I mean, that is so impressive.
I would be so proud.
I'm very proud of you.
It's so deeply messed up.
(15:55):
But let's talk more about whyrap.
I mean, we also want to talkmore about feminism, but since
we're talking about this now,what made you turn to rap as an
art form to respond to this?
Nancy Black (16:15):
Well, I think that's the completely logical
choice.
Rap was always the language ofthe oppressed communities.
Rap was always the language ofpoor people, so it's
anti-capitalist and it's comingfrom minority roots as its
origin.
Rap is nothing that was born inthe privileged class, so, for
sure, all these black movementsalways have been very powerful
(16:38):
to me, and it's also ageneration thing, so I'm born in
83.
So I was growing up with Tupac,shakur and Dr Dre and
everything they said, which wasquite a great influence, and
strong women like Lauryn Hilland Alia and TLC coming up back
then and rappers like Left Eye,and I was super influenced by
(17:01):
those rappers and I learnedEnglish actually through MTV and
learning English rap textsright.
Paulina (17:08):
I love that.
Nancy Black (17:11):
And I think that's a generation thing.
I think all the people in ourage or who know that music they
love this music.
It's so much rooted inside us.
So I still listen to that musicand super inspired by, for
example, nas.
The text of Nas is like it'sjust a text about what you can
become if you just believe in it, that you shouldn't be stopped
(17:31):
by things like capitalism orclass discrimination.
It's empowerment music.
This is why I chose rap,because I think it's empowerment
music.
This is why I chose rap,because I think it's empowerment
music.
That is what it's all about.
Mainly, even if a black personis having a Rolls Royce and a
Rolex, it's still about theempowerment of people who come
from the bottom, going to thetop, being able to do that.
(17:54):
All of this is rap for me, anddoing rap in Romani language was
just logic.
It was just logic because theRomani language, as we know, is
dying, and also the fact thatChachipiti is able to speak
Romanesque nowadays.
It doesn't safeguard ourlanguage, because it doesn't
mean that our people learnRomanesque at home or use it in
(18:18):
their everyday life.
It just means that the violencecapitalism is also able to
speak Romanesque.
That's all it means to me.
So I think it was just logicalto start rapping in Romanesque,
mainly because I wanted otheryoung people to start rapping in
their mother language.
(20:01):
you and why do you feel it'simportant to talk about?
Well, actually, first, like Inever titled myself as a
feminist.
It's similar to me, as, likethe question when you ask if I
consider myself a rebel, I thinkthis is.
If I call myself feminist, it'strue in the ways I do it or
what I do or how I focus it, butagain, I just think this is a
completely normal, unideologicnecessity, because I want to
(20:25):
earn the same money as my malecounterpart.
It's just like fair.
It shouldn't have any ideology,it's just like fair.
I want to be paid the samemoney as a human being.
And now maybe you cut it out,but I don't care.
Just having a vagina for medoesn't mean I need to create a
(20:45):
whole ideology around the vagina.
You know, it's not about that.
It's about having fair paymentfor all human beings, having the
same chances for all humanbeings.
It's about having equality andit shouldn't matter what gender
you have.
It's male, it's female, it'sbeyond.
(21:07):
It's transgender, it'snon-binary, it doesn't matter.
Really, I appreciate and embraceall of these genders and
mindsets, but I think also,again, just being a feminist is
not enough for me.
I think I consider myselfmainly a human rights activist
because it's the human rightthat's behind that.
(21:29):
That should be equal foreverybody.
Yes, and I really think thatterm of feminism is so much
abused, it's raped by thefar-right propaganda in the term
actually what it means and whyit actually started out the
whole thing.
And they have the propagandalike feminists destroy families
(21:51):
because they are not ready tohave enough children, like what.
That's super crazy and there isalso people in our communities
who believe these narratives.
So I'm trying to get away fromthe whole vagina narrative going
there that me as a human being,I wanted to be treated equally.
(22:11):
It doesn't matter if I'm awoman, if I'm non-binary, if I
don't consider myself a genderat all.
Maybe I'm pansexual, maybe Ijust see the souls of other
people.
Whatever, I want to be treatedequally and it shouldn't matter
what's my gender yeah, I lovethat narrative.
Paulina (22:32):
I think there's also this, like, I feel, just
educating people like we're notfighting for better rights, like
we're just fighting for equalrights, like that's it, like we
just want equal rights aseveryone else, and I think, of
course, because feminism isrooted in, I think, femininity.
There's just that instant, likeyou know, hatred towards it
(22:57):
from the world to a degree.
Yeah and we run into.
Nancy Black (23:05):
There's a lot of women who don't consider they
are female by biology but theydo consider themselves as
feminine right, considerthemselves as feminine right.
So I think this is just a verybinary way of seeing the world
(23:26):
and I think leaving theseborders holding us back again
from the unification, fromuniting with all the oppressed
groups.
We need to leave these bordersin our heads beyond.
Jezmina (23:34):
Yeah, absolutely, and feminism as a term and as an
ideology can have itslimitations.
Like we talk about TERFs a lot,you know people who deny trans
women their right to exist, andthat's within the certain
feminist movements and that's,you know, not where we want to
be.
I've heard the term genderliberationist, which I really
(23:55):
liked.
I was like, oh, that's a niceone, but I really love your
focus on anti-capitalism andwhat you were saying earlier
about how identity politics canbe used to further divide us,
and at this point it's reallyabout money, and especially with
billionaires literally runningcountries and the world,
(24:16):
especially with billionairesliterally running countries and
the world, this feels like areally important shift in
conversation.
Song (24:45):
You have the oil you shine , you have the oil you shine and
we are all one.
Stop take two.
Jezmina (25:03):
For all you dreamers out there we love to ask this
question as well, because welike opportunities to shout out
people who we like.
Who is your Romani crush?
Who is someone you?
Nancy Black (25:17):
really admire?
Yeah, I love that question somuch.
Well, there is many.
Actually, my whole work isbased on admiring other people.
So just to mention, like, maybeone that is not alive anymore,
but I think I draw so muchinspiration from Charlie Chaplin
.
For example, one of my firsttranslation projects was
(25:39):
actually translating his speechfrom the film the Great Dictator
to Romani language.
It was so inspiring to me.
Also, many people don't knowthat Charlie Chaplin is also
Roma, also has Roma roots, andjust giving a shout out to the
documentary that is publishedsoon that is putting attention
to his Romani roots, and thisdocumentary about Charlie
(26:00):
Chaplin is produced by hisfamily, but a part of the family
who is actually Romani andwants the world to know that he
was Romani too.
So, really shouting out thisproposal Watch that film coming
very soon.
Another one that, or many that,that I really really like, for
sure.
(26:20):
Um, I mentioned both because Isee them also on your channels.
It's alina sherban, with whichI had the honor to spend some
days in germany, where I wasreally inspired by her craziness
, by her courage, for hersexiness, for sure.
Kali Mikaela, with her rap crewand her rituals and her
(26:43):
visuality, and her colleagues,like Nico the rapper.
I really love those guys too.
I like or push all the Romanijournalists out there.
Shout out to all of youpublishing out there.
The Romani journalists outthere.
Shout out to all of youpublishing out there.
There is, for example, daliborTanic, who is doing media work
on the Balkans since years.
(27:04):
We are connected.
I really love the work thathe's doing.
Also, I made some portraitsabout people I admire the whole
glass of portrait series.
I received the JournalismExcellence Prize actually for
this portrait series last year,in 2024.
And the whole glass of portraitseries is just about people
(27:26):
that I admire.
It's just portraits aboutRomani people that I admire and
there is many, many people frommany different countries.
So just shouting out there youcan go online and search for it.
There is just thinking about itbecause there is something a
(27:46):
great artist beyond any binarygender, because we talked about
it performance artist.
She made me actually make aritual that was based on calling
my ancestors with a lettercalled Dear Ancestors.
This is actually based on theidea of Kajugravu, who was
(28:09):
collecting, who was searchingfor people who write a letter to
their ancestors as a part of amobile memorial their ancestors
as a part of a mobile memorial.
Also a very, very great personthat I admire a lot the whole
Roma army, including Simonidaand Sandra Selimovic, sisters
from the Balkans living inVienna, who were part of the
(28:30):
Roma army theater play.
So wow, I think I could talkthe whole hour about all the
people I admire, but maybe Icome up with two or three more
names, yeah.
Jezmina (28:42):
Wow, there are so many exciting things there that I
wanted to ask about First what'sthe portrait series called that
you did?
Nancy Black (28:50):
The portrait series is called Glasso, actually in
one of the Romani dialects,translated with voice, and in
this portrait series I'm writingabout Romani persons that I
really admire, who do greatthings and, as I write in the
introduction of this portraitseries, this is a portrait
(29:12):
series about people who changethe world and who are merely
ever as things beyond theirethnicity.
So the focus of theseinterviews is not their
ethnicity.
They are not interviewedbecause they are Romani.
They are interviewed because Ithink they change the world with
(29:33):
the stuff they do.
So there is people likeKhachugravu that I already
mentioned.
There is a portrait of DaliborTanic with his journalistic work
for Democracy, but there isalso a portrait about Branislav
Nikolic that we call Papu, whois now he will be, I think, 65,
(29:56):
70 years old soon and he's aprogrammer, an IT person who is
coding, but he looks like asuper wise old aramid, kind of
like a Papu.
Right, he looks like a Papu.
Then you sit in front of him andhe's telling you about
artificial intelligence and thenew coding languages that's
(30:18):
coming up and how we createalgorithms and how they
intersect with our realities,and you're like, wow, this guy
is doing radio since 40 yearsfor Romani people in Romani
language, so there is a lot ofgreat people portrayed.
Also Alina Sherban has aportrait there and many other
(30:39):
great Romani people that you canread about in the
Glossoportrait series, and itwas published on Deutsche Welle
Europe and now, thanks to JGPT,just copy the text and put it in
and you can translate it toyour language so you can read it
.
Because, again, my Rome blogalways is hacked, but I hope to
be online again soon.
Jezmina (31:00):
Yeah, and can you tell us more about the ritual?
That sounds amazing too foryour ancestors.
Nancy Black (31:09):
Yeah, so actually the idea was I was meeting Katju
Gravu online in Zoom.
It was still like the end ofthe Corona time, so we couldn't
meet in person.
In the beginning and she wasasking me.
She was telling me about thememorial project that she was
doing in her artwork, which washaving a mobile memorial which
(31:30):
was made of different audioboxes that are positioned in
spaces where very bad thingsgenocidal things were happening
to Romani people, and she askedme if I would write a letter to
my ancestors.
So first the question wasactually if I could write a
(31:51):
letter to one of my ancestors.
And I ended up writing a letterto all of my ancestors and this
is an audio file with the titleDear Ancestors Maybe we also
can hear a little bit in thepodcast today and it actually
promises my ancestors.
(32:11):
I'm promising to my ancestorsthat I will contribute to never
forgetting their history andtheir fight.
But it also says that we havegained a lot of power, that we
have a lot of magic, that wehave not only the trauma but we
also have a lot of power, thatwe have a lot of magic, that we
have not only the trauma but wealso have a lot of strength
actually by accessing thestrength of our ancestors.
(32:36):
And just to give one examplewhat I mean by that sometimes I
am having dialogues aboutfundraising proposals.
Many activists know that youhave to go somewhere, you have
an appointment and you have totalk about money.
How much money do you need foryour project?
Why do you want that money foryour project?
(32:56):
You have to justify yourselfright.
And when I go to these kind ofconversations I'm having a
mindset trick that I'm reallyproposing to everyone out here
who is in this situation.
I'm calling my ancestors andI'm imagining to enter the room
with all the ancestors behind me, and this is actually giving a
(33:20):
kind of power andself-confidence in these
conversations.
That is invisible, but it isthere, it's present.
The people who sit in front ofme having the conversation.
They can feel that there issomething beyond the targets or
the wishes of the twoindividuals sitting there.
(33:43):
There is a whole history ofsurvivors, people who survived
the Nazis, people who survivedthe Holocaust, but people who
before that already had a longhistory of survival and becoming
strong.
So sitting there with theancestors behind me, just having
the thought, it changes thewhole way I have the
(34:05):
conversation.
It changes the outcome.
It changes the whole way I havethe conversation.
It changes the outcome, itchanges the output of what's
coming up and I think that'svery powerful.
And it's the opposite of beingashamed for being a Romani
person.
I think that's the veryopposite mindset To walk into a
room with the consciousness ofwho you are, because of who your
(34:26):
ancestors were.
Song (34:29):
Dear ancestors, I'm calling you, I'm feeling you.
We shall become your mouth tospeak in the present.
You shall become our strengthto fight in the future.
We are one through our commonfaith created in the past.
(35:05):
This is our trans-dimensionalpact.
Our ancestors, our presentpeople, our future movement
shall fight.
Fight as one, shall fight asone in all times and spaces.
Paulina (35:36):
Outsmarting death.
We actually have an ancestorworkshop coming up in March, so
we really strongly believe inthat, do you?
Want to talk about that alittle bit Jess.
Jezmina (35:50):
Yeah, I mean, thank you so much for sharing about that
ritual.
That is so moving and I justlove this idea of solidarity and
empowerment through ancestorwork, so that's just so gorgeous
.
Yeah, we've been reallyenjoying teaching ancestor
communication using tarot andhow to use your tarot practice
to commune with all types ofancestors and for listeners.
(36:14):
We finally set the dates forour Romanistan Festival.
It'll be March 28th till March30th in New Orleans and a lot of
it will be hosted at CottageMagic in New Orleans and
there'll be at least a couple ofother venues will be doing some
things with the TennesseeWilliams Festival, so stay tuned
(36:35):
.
That'll be on the website, but,if you're there, we'll be
teaching an ancestorcommunication workshop again at
Cottage Magic, so that'll bereally cool.
But wow, that is amazing.
You've been involved in so manyprojects.
Um, paulina, is there anythingelse you wanted to ask?
Paulina (36:51):
do you have anything coming up on the horizon that
our guests could look out for?
Nancy Black (36:57):
well, yes, sure, I'm having a lot of things
coming up on the horizon, but mymain problem is that all the
great things I do in the present, I'm never allowed to talk
about it because the funding isnot there yet or it is something
with politics, or it issomething with global affairs
(37:23):
future.
But actually I can tell youthat there is a lot of things
coming up and most of them areactually already beyond the
segregation of small communities.
It's about the unification ofoppressed communities.
A lot is about the consultingof people who fight for social
democracy and against capitalism.
(37:46):
So a lot of it is in politics,fighting actually the whole
far-right development around theglobe, also doing a lot of
stuff that is contributing toraising consciousness and
leaving like the small patterns.
And also, yes, something that Ican tell you is that I will
(38:06):
start teaching as a guestprofessor now in March, actually
in Munich at the University forSocial Science, where I will
have a whole class for twosemesters actually.
So it's not only one semester,I'm very honored to do it for
two semesters in Munich onleadership and disruptive.
(38:28):
Actually, it's disruptiveleadership, leadership in social
innovation, and I'm very happyto be that I was chosen actually
to teach that topic to socialscience students and it will be
hilarious that somebody who is,as I consider myself, like
(38:48):
anarchistic and chaotic methodslike, for example, I'm using
theatralic intervention withclassrooms, which for other
people really looks like strangeif I do it, but obviously this
university is progressive enoughto do it, so I'm very honored
to teach in the coming year.
(39:09):
So a leadership, and this isalso why, in the coming year, I
will have an online masterclasson actually leading social
innovation.
And, yeah, if it's officially,if I start with it Romanistan
podcast you will hear from me.
I will send you immediateinvitation.
Jezmina (39:29):
Please do.
Oh my gosh, you're going to besuch a wonderful professor.
They're really lucky to haveyou.
I want to take your classes.
We will keep everyone posted.
Yes, we would love to.
Is there anything you want toshare before we wrap up today?
Nancy Black (39:46):
Well, I want to share so much.
In fact, I think I share what Ican share all the time, but
maybe there is one thing that Iwant to share to the people who
listen.
Sometimes I receive emails andusually they start with it took
me so long to contact you.
I was so afraid because I feelso small and you are famous and
(40:08):
whatever.
So, to the people out there,don't worry, you can approach me
anytime.
Just send me an email.
You know I'm nancyblack101 onInstagram, so I do my social
media stuff by my own.
There is no agency, there is nomanagement.
I do it by myself.
If you have a question, if youneed support, if you are not
(40:31):
sure how to go on with your nextproject or development, or just
need some whatever spiritualconversation about the stars I
don't know you, but I don't care.
You can send me an email, youcan call me and I'm very open to
meet people who feel the needto meet me.
So namaste to all the lightsouls out there, um, if you have
(40:54):
feel the need to get to know me, just do it.
Jezmina (40:58):
I'm here thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasuretalking with you.
We really appreciate your, yourtime and everything that you've
shared.
Um, so listen, yeah sorry, goahead, paulina.
Paulina (41:14):
Yeah, this has been an honor.
We love and appreciate you yes,so listeners.
Jezmina (41:20):
Um, yeah, follow nancy black 101 on instagram.
Yeah, follow NancyBlack101 onInstagram.
Stay up to date with what'sgoing on and we are so grateful
for y'all tuning in.
And what a way to kick offseason five.
You're our first interview ofseason five, very exciting, and
yeah, thank you for being here,everyone.
(41:41):
Yay.
Nancy Black (41:45):
I thank you too, namaste, and I hope that people
also have fun listening to themusic in this podcast series.
Forward it to everybody whoneeds a little bit of light and
hope.
And thank you, RomanistanPodcast, for existing.
Nice to meet you thank you.
Paulina (42:44):
Thank you for listening to Romanistan Podcast.
Jezmina (42:48):
You can find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook
at Romanistan Podcast and onTwitter at RomanistanPod, To
support us, join our Patreon forextra content or just donate to
our Ko-Fi fundraiser, ko-ficombackslash romanistan, and please
rate, review and subscribe.
(43:09):
It helps people find our show.
Paulina (43:11):
it helps us so much you can follow jez on instagram at
jasminavantila and paulina atromani holistic.
You can get our book secrets ofrom-Telling online or wherever
books are sold.
Visit romanistanpodcastcom forevents, educational resources
(43:31):
and more.
Email us at romanistanpodcastat gmailcom for inquiries.
Jezmina (43:38):
Romanistan is hosted by Jasmina Von Tila and Paulina
Stevens, conceived of by PaulinaStevens, edited by Victor
Pachas, with music by VictorPachas and artwork by Elijah
Vardo.
Welcome to Romanistan.
Jezmina (00:09):
We're your friendly neighborhood gypsies.
Paulina (00:12):
I'm Paulina.
Jezmina (00:13):
And I'm Jez, and we're here with Gilda Horvat, also
known as rapper Nancy Black.
Paulina (00:22):
Yay, nice to have you.
Nancy Black is the alter ego ofthe journalist and activist
Gilda Nancy Horvath.
A Romani from Vienna, austria,she is writing poems in
Romanesque, english and German,which are sometimes translated
to music, mainly rap music.
(00:42):
Her rap poem Drushullah, whichtranslates to crosses, states
clearly that the danger of thedark history repeating is always
present and that even peoplefrom marginalized groups are not
safe to be seduced by the verysimple answers far-rights give,
rooted in fear, hate and angerbeyond.
(01:04):
She is the creator of manyprojects and consulting
governments and politicians.
Thank you for being here.
Can you maybe tell us whereyou're from, where your family's
from and what your beat says?
Nancy Black (01:22):
yeah hi, I'm nancy black, aka real name, gilda
nancy horvath.
I'm very honored for having metoday in the romanistan podcast,
everybody who is listening.
I'm coming from austriaoriginally, which is not
australia, not to confuse that.
It's a very small country quitecenter in Europe.
(01:45):
This is where I'm born, where Igrew up, coming from the group
of the Lovara, which isHungarian Romani people rooted.
Yeah, and I guess that's whatto say about my national roots,
my born roots born with.
Jezmina (02:07):
Yes, we are so excited that you're with us because
we've been following your careerfor a while and just being a
fan of you in general, and wealways love to ask our guests do
you consider yourself a rebel?
Nancy Black (02:16):
Well, I don't consider myself a rebel, I
consider myself a realist, quiterealistic seeing all the
developments in the world drivenby politics, driven by hate,
driven by fear.
So I consider myself a realistin that case that I think that
(02:36):
we need to use our publicpresence to amplify the voices
of those who are not heard inthe public because they don't
have the reach.
They not heard in the publicbecause they don't have the
reach, they don't have the money, they don't have the platforms.
So I think it's a kind ofrealist responsibility, if by
luck or by hard work or both, wehave the privilege to become
(03:00):
public voices, to use that voiceto amplify the voices of others
.
Jezmina (03:07):
That is such a wonderful distinction, because
you know you mentioned this inyour bio that it's easy even for
minority groups to be seducedby fascism, and it is important
that we're realists and maybe inthis case the language of being
a rebel isn't helpful.
(03:27):
That's really.
I mean in America, for instance,Paulina and I were really
shocked by how many Romanipeople were celebrating that
Trump won, shocked and notshocked, but also it was just so
disappointing.
And I'm not.
I don't really know what thatlooks like in Europe.
You know, I, we don't haveexperience with that.
Do you want to speak to that alittle bit, what that looks like
in Europe?
You know we don't haveexperience with that.
Nancy Black (03:48):
Do you want to speak to that a little bit?
Well, yes, and this is maybealso why I don't want to be
myself considered as a rebel,because far-right people
propagandist people, theyconsider themselves rebels like
Donald Trump was considered arebel, or people like Andrew
Tate, who really promote a toxicway of being and living, they
consider themselves as rebelsand they rebel against something
(04:10):
that is not even real.
They rebel against an illusionthat they construct and make us
believe.
And yes, the developments inAmerica are the developments all
over the globe, also in Europe.
For example, right now, elonMusk will very soon host a
conversation on X with AliceWeidel.
(04:34):
Alice Weidel is the leader ofthe far-right party in Germany,
the AfD, so we can see that thisis interconnected and I'm
shocked that many people don'tsee the interrelation that
far-right parties all over theglobe are connected using the
same wording, using the samephrases, using the same
(04:54):
propaganda and, in fact, usingthe same money, also mainly
coming from, for example,russian media agencies.
So there is a big picture thatmany people are not able to see
and actually that's really,really dangerous, because our
democracies are rumbling.
(05:14):
In Austria right now, maybe thefar-right leader, herbert
Kickler, is becoming chancellor.
So this is, right now, a veryrealistic option.
In Austria, there are many Romawho consider leaving Germany,
who think about leaving Austriabecause of these developments.
So this is a global trend, avery threatening trend and a
(05:40):
real danger.
Jezmina (05:42):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that.
And in that vein, you have suchan impressive background in
German.
Sorry, I'm going to say thatagain.
You have such an impressivebackground in journalism, from
your start in grassrootsprojects in the Romani community
in Austria to 10 years at theAustrian Public National
Broadcaster ORF.
You've done a lot of freelanceprojects for Roma and much more,
(06:05):
and there's so much to talkabout on the topic of Romani
involvement and representationin the media.
It's kind of hard to know whereto start.
So what would you likelisteners to know about your
experience and insights as aRomani journalist advocating for
Romani rights?
Nancy Black (06:20):
Well, maybe let's start with the most
controversial thing.
So right now, I'm active sincemore than 20 years.
I started out when I wasapproximately 17, starting in
journalism at the PublicNational ORF, and I was
approximately in the beginningof my 20s, like 23, 24 years old
and after 20 years doing this,I can say that and this might be
(06:44):
unpopular what I'm saying rightnow but I think we have to
leave the focus into ourminority communities.
I love being active for theRomani community.
I'm proud being Romani andalways was out there as a person
, as a Roma person making rap inRomani language.
(07:04):
So I think there's no doubtthat I'm super proud
representing Romani culture.
But on the other hand, I seethat the system is dividing us.
It's dividing the oppressedgroups.
There is the Muslim groups,there is the LGBTQ community,
there is the black people, thereis the brown people.
There is the black people,there is the brown people, there
(07:25):
is the poor people.
So we are divided by manydifferent layers and politics
and power is segregating us.
Just to put up one example I'mgoing to a conference against
anti-Gypsyism or anti-Syrianism.
Another person another Jess,another Paulina, another Gilda
is joining a conference onMuslimophobia.
(07:48):
A third Jess, paulina or Gildais joining a conference against
homophobia and so on.
And if you join theseconferences, we all have the
same problems, we all strugglethe same patterns, we all have
the same wishes for the future,but we stay divided by these
(08:10):
different conferences, bydifferent channels of funding
and this kind of system.
It holds us back from unitingall the oppressed groups who
struggle the very same problems.
But while we stay in our smallcommunity, like the Romani
community activism, theMuslimophobia activism, the
(08:34):
anti-LGBTQ activism, we neverunite on a meta level.
And what I'm trying to do inthe future in the next project,
is actually leaving this kind ofsmall activism and going to
much stronger networking withthose people who fight for other
(08:54):
communities and also the fightagainst destructive capitalism
became a very important thingbecause everybody who is an
activist is in a very privilegedsituation.
You must afford it to be anactivist.
If you struggle with youreveryday money, if you don't
have enough to eat, if you don'tknow how to care for your
(09:17):
family and your children, youhave no time to be a political
activist.
So the main division in societyis between the rich and the
poor, and identity politicsnowadays is just used by the far
right to separate us theactivists or the civil society
(10:07):
activist people.
Paulina (10:08):
Yeah, that sounds like a lot.
It kind of I, I am just a darkperson.
So I want to ask this nextquestion um, it's okay for you
to, you know, to be like ashonest as you want to be, I
would say, but I want to askjust throughout your activism
(10:30):
work, or even throughout yourcareer, what do you think has
caused the most controversy, um,during your career, and how
have you handled that, andwhether that includes
controversy coming fromobviously outside the culture or
even sometimes inside thecommunity, just because we know
how that can be well, to startwith the inside, the community.
Nancy Black (10:54):
I think I share the struggle that many women feel
in their lives when they arebecoming independent entities,
when they take on a job, whenthey become just an independent
entity as a human being.
For sure, in more conservativefamilies not in every Romani
family, but in many conservativecommunities we struggle the
(11:16):
problem of not immediatelyhaving a marriage and becoming a
mother.
So I think this is still quitestigmatized being an individual
that chooses to have anindividual life and putting her
own life as a priority and notimmediately become married or
become independent by somebodyelse in financial, but also in
(11:40):
mental and mindset means.
And for many families it's nota problem of intolerance.
But I understand that manymothers and many fathers are
concerned about the future oftheir daughters because there is
still the fact that we don'treceive the same money paid for
the same work, we don't receivethe same recognition as our male
(12:03):
counterparts do.
So it's hard out there stillfor women today, especially for
a woman from a minoritycommunity.
So this is the inside struggle.
The outside struggle was I'mopen anti-fascist and I think
everybody should be, especiallycoming from Austria.
We have a certain history withHitler and the Holocaust, so
(12:26):
people who don't know this aregoing out there to young people.
If you don't know what thatmeans, please Google that,
inform yourself, learn history.
So the struggle that I had withthe external environment was
when I had to release Truffula,which is a song about having
Nazis also inside the Romanicommunity, and it was based on
(12:47):
the true story that washappening to me.
When we had presidentialelections in 2017 in Austria,
there was Romani peoplecollaborating with the far-right
party, and I started protestingagainst that, and they made a
press release saying all theRomani people will vote for the
far-right candidate, which was alie.
(13:08):
Sure, it was fake news.
However, they released a videoabout me that was lying about me
, harassing me, calling me aliar.
It was talking about me havingmillions of euros that vanished
somewhere, and they really triedto destroy my public person as
(13:33):
a journalist and as a humanbeing, and what I did then was I
was thinking about how can Irespond to that without being a
victim?
So I created Nancy Black as arapper.
I sat down in front of thecomputer and I was writing the
Trusula rap, in which I actuallydescribed the development of
(13:55):
Romani people collaborating withNazis and what that means to us
and the first video versionthat was online only for a few
weeks.
It was actually showing onlypictures of different memorials
of Auschwitz, of Jasenovac, ofall these places where our
people were killed in thebackground.
So actually it was blocked byFacebook after a few weeks, sure
(14:20):
, but I released it and suddenlythousands of people started
defending me online.
So all the people who sawTrushula became like an army
against the anti-fascists andalso against those who were
lying against me, and it wasvery much more successful than I
(14:40):
thought.
I received a lot of support bythousands of people 10 years ago
on Facebook, and this is howNancy Black was actually born.
And since that day, nazis neverattempted me publicly, but since
that day, every homepage Ireleased gets hacked in between
four days.
This is if people out there askthemselves why I have no
(15:03):
homepage.
It's because each time I starta new homepage it becomes hacked
instantly, like I'm superblacklisted in all the Nazi
forums, all the far-rightactivist forums, which is
actually an honor.
But it's actually a pitybecause projects like the Rome
(15:23):
blog, for example, I had tostart it already three times
because the website gets hackedagain and again and again.
Jezmina (15:32):
Wow, it's incredible that you created a piece of art
that people are still talkingabout and are still so
threatened by that.
I mean, that is so impressive.
I would be so proud.
I'm very proud of you.
It's so deeply messed up.
(15:55):
But let's talk more about whyrap.
I mean, we also want to talkmore about feminism, but since
we're talking about this now,what made you turn to rap as an
art form to respond to this?
Nancy Black (16:15):
Well, I think that's the completely logical
choice.
Rap was always the language ofthe oppressed communities.
Rap was always the language ofpoor people, so it's
anti-capitalist and it's comingfrom minority roots as its
origin.
Rap is nothing that was born inthe privileged class, so, for
sure, all these black movementsalways have been very powerful
(16:38):
to me, and it's also ageneration thing, so I'm born in
83.
So I was growing up with Tupac,shakur and Dr Dre and
everything they said, which wasquite a great influence, and
strong women like Lauryn Hilland Alia and TLC coming up back
then and rappers like Left Eye,and I was super influenced by
(17:01):
those rappers and I learnedEnglish actually through MTV and
learning English rap textsright.
Paulina (17:08):
I love that.
Nancy Black (17:11):
And I think that's a generation thing.
I think all the people in ourage or who know that music they
love this music.
It's so much rooted inside us.
So I still listen to that musicand super inspired by, for
example, nas.
The text of Nas is like it'sjust a text about what you can
become if you just believe in it, that you shouldn't be stopped
(17:31):
by things like capitalism orclass discrimination.
It's empowerment music.
This is why I chose rap,because I think it's empowerment
music.
This is why I chose rap,because I think it's empowerment
music.
That is what it's all about.
Mainly, even if a black personis having a Rolls Royce and a
Rolex, it's still about theempowerment of people who come
from the bottom, going to thetop, being able to do that.
(17:54):
All of this is rap for me, anddoing rap in Romani language was
just logic.
It was just logic because theRomani language, as we know, is
dying, and also the fact thatChachipiti is able to speak
Romanesque nowadays.
It doesn't safeguard ourlanguage, because it doesn't
mean that our people learnRomanesque at home or use it in
(18:18):
their everyday life.
It just means that the violencecapitalism is also able to
speak Romanesque.
That's all it means to me.
So I think it was just logicalto start rapping in Romanesque,
mainly because I wanted otheryoung people to start rapping in
their mother language.
(20:01):
you and why do you feel it'simportant to talk about?
Well, actually, first, like Inever titled myself as a
feminist.
It's similar to me, as, likethe question when you ask if I
consider myself a rebel, I thinkthis is.
If I call myself feminist, it'strue in the ways I do it or
what I do or how I focus it, butagain, I just think this is a
completely normal, unideologicnecessity, because I want to
(20:25):
earn the same money as my malecounterpart.
It's just like fair.
It shouldn't have any ideology,it's just like fair.
I want to be paid the samemoney as a human being.
And now maybe you cut it out,but I don't care.
Just having a vagina for medoesn't mean I need to create a
(20:45):
whole ideology around the vagina.
You know, it's not about that.
It's about having fair paymentfor all human beings, having the
same chances for all humanbeings.
It's about having equality andit shouldn't matter what gender
you have.
It's male, it's female, it'sbeyond.
(21:07):
It's transgender, it'snon-binary, it doesn't matter.
Really, I appreciate and embraceall of these genders and
mindsets, but I think also,again, just being a feminist is
not enough for me.
I think I consider myselfmainly a human rights activist
because it's the human rightthat's behind that.
(21:29):
That should be equal foreverybody.
Yes, and I really think thatterm of feminism is so much
abused, it's raped by thefar-right propaganda in the term
actually what it means and whyit actually started out the
whole thing.
And they have the propagandalike feminists destroy families
(21:51):
because they are not ready tohave enough children, like what.
That's super crazy and there isalso people in our communities
who believe these narratives.
So I'm trying to get away fromthe whole vagina narrative going
there that me as a human being,I wanted to be treated equally.
(22:11):
It doesn't matter if I'm awoman, if I'm non-binary, if I
don't consider myself a genderat all.
Maybe I'm pansexual, maybe Ijust see the souls of other
people.
Whatever, I want to be treatedequally and it shouldn't matter
what's my gender yeah, I lovethat narrative.
Paulina (22:32):
I think there's also this, like, I feel, just
educating people like we're notfighting for better rights, like
we're just fighting for equalrights, like that's it, like we
just want equal rights aseveryone else, and I think, of
course, because feminism isrooted in, I think, femininity.
There's just that instant, likeyou know, hatred towards it
(22:57):
from the world to a degree.
Yeah and we run into.
Nancy Black (23:05):
There's a lot of women who don't consider they
are female by biology but theydo consider themselves as
feminine right, considerthemselves as feminine right.
So I think this is just a verybinary way of seeing the world
(23:26):
and I think leaving theseborders holding us back again
from the unification, fromuniting with all the oppressed
groups.
We need to leave these bordersin our heads beyond.
Jezmina (23:34):
Yeah, absolutely, and feminism as a term and as an
ideology can have itslimitations.
Like we talk about TERFs a lot,you know people who deny trans
women their right to exist, andthat's within the certain
feminist movements and that's,you know, not where we want to
be.
I've heard the term genderliberationist, which I really
(23:55):
liked.
I was like, oh, that's a niceone, but I really love your
focus on anti-capitalism andwhat you were saying earlier
about how identity politics canbe used to further divide us,
and at this point it's reallyabout money, and especially with
billionaires literally runningcountries and the world,
(24:16):
especially with billionairesliterally running countries and
the world, this feels like areally important shift in
conversation.
Song (24:45):
You have the oil you shine , you have the oil you shine and
we are all one.
Stop take two.
Jezmina (25:03):
For all you dreamers out there we love to ask this
question as well, because welike opportunities to shout out
people who we like.
Who is your Romani crush?
Who is someone you?
Nancy Black (25:17):
really admire?
Yeah, I love that question somuch.
Well, there is many.
Actually, my whole work isbased on admiring other people.
So just to mention, like, maybeone that is not alive anymore,
but I think I draw so muchinspiration from Charlie Chaplin
.
For example, one of my firsttranslation projects was
(25:39):
actually translating his speechfrom the film the Great Dictator
to Romani language.
It was so inspiring to me.
Also, many people don't knowthat Charlie Chaplin is also
Roma, also has Roma roots, andjust giving a shout out to the
documentary that is publishedsoon that is putting attention
to his Romani roots, and thisdocumentary about Charlie
(26:00):
Chaplin is produced by hisfamily, but a part of the family
who is actually Romani andwants the world to know that he
was Romani too.
So, really shouting out thisproposal Watch that film coming
very soon.
Another one that, or many that,that I really really like, for
sure.
(26:20):
Um, I mentioned both because Isee them also on your channels.
It's alina sherban, with whichI had the honor to spend some
days in germany, where I wasreally inspired by her craziness
, by her courage, for hersexiness, for sure.
Kali Mikaela, with her rap crewand her rituals and her
(26:43):
visuality, and her colleagues,like Nico the rapper.
I really love those guys too.
I like or push all the Romanijournalists out there.
Shout out to all of youpublishing out there.
The Romani journalists outthere.
Shout out to all of youpublishing out there.
There is, for example, daliborTanic, who is doing media work
on the Balkans since years.
(27:04):
We are connected.
I really love the work thathe's doing.
Also, I made some portraitsabout people I admire the whole
glass of portrait series.
I received the JournalismExcellence Prize actually for
this portrait series last year,in 2024.
And the whole glass of portraitseries is just about people
(27:26):
that I admire.
It's just portraits aboutRomani people that I admire and
there is many, many people frommany different countries.
So just shouting out there youcan go online and search for it.
There is just thinking about itbecause there is something a
(27:46):
great artist beyond any binarygender, because we talked about
it performance artist.
She made me actually make aritual that was based on calling
my ancestors with a lettercalled Dear Ancestors.
This is actually based on theidea of Kajugravu, who was
(28:09):
collecting, who was searchingfor people who write a letter to
their ancestors as a part of amobile memorial their ancestors
as a part of a mobile memorial.
Also a very, very great personthat I admire a lot the whole
Roma army, including Simonidaand Sandra Selimovic, sisters
from the Balkans living inVienna, who were part of the
(28:30):
Roma army theater play.
So wow, I think I could talkthe whole hour about all the
people I admire, but maybe Icome up with two or three more
names, yeah.
Jezmina (28:42):
Wow, there are so many exciting things there that I
wanted to ask about First what'sthe portrait series called that
you did?
Nancy Black (28:50):
The portrait series is called Glasso, actually in
one of the Romani dialects,translated with voice, and in
this portrait series I'm writingabout Romani persons that I
really admire, who do greatthings and, as I write in the
introduction of this portraitseries, this is a portrait
(29:12):
series about people who changethe world and who are merely
ever as things beyond theirethnicity.
So the focus of theseinterviews is not their
ethnicity.
They are not interviewedbecause they are Romani.
They are interviewed because Ithink they change the world with
(29:33):
the stuff they do.
So there is people likeKhachugravu that I already
mentioned.
There is a portrait of DaliborTanic with his journalistic work
for Democracy, but there isalso a portrait about Branislav
Nikolic that we call Papu, whois now he will be, I think, 65,
(29:56):
70 years old soon and he's aprogrammer, an IT person who is
coding, but he looks like asuper wise old aramid, kind of
like a Papu.
Right, he looks like a Papu.
Then you sit in front of him andhe's telling you about
artificial intelligence and thenew coding languages that's
(30:18):
coming up and how we createalgorithms and how they
intersect with our realities,and you're like, wow, this guy
is doing radio since 40 yearsfor Romani people in Romani
language, so there is a lot ofgreat people portrayed.
Also Alina Sherban has aportrait there and many other
(30:39):
great Romani people that you canread about in the
Glossoportrait series, and itwas published on Deutsche Welle
Europe and now, thanks to JGPT,just copy the text and put it in
and you can translate it toyour language so you can read it
.
Because, again, my Rome blogalways is hacked, but I hope to
be online again soon.
Jezmina (31:00):
Yeah, and can you tell us more about the ritual?
That sounds amazing too foryour ancestors.
Nancy Black (31:09):
Yeah, so actually the idea was I was meeting Katju
Gravu online in Zoom.
It was still like the end ofthe Corona time, so we couldn't
meet in person.
In the beginning and she wasasking me.
She was telling me about thememorial project that she was
doing in her artwork, which washaving a mobile memorial which
(31:30):
was made of different audioboxes that are positioned in
spaces where very bad thingsgenocidal things were happening
to Romani people, and she askedme if I would write a letter to
my ancestors.
So first the question wasactually if I could write a
(31:51):
letter to one of my ancestors.
And I ended up writing a letterto all of my ancestors and this
is an audio file with the titleDear Ancestors Maybe we also
can hear a little bit in thepodcast today and it actually
promises my ancestors.
(32:11):
I'm promising to my ancestorsthat I will contribute to never
forgetting their history andtheir fight.
But it also says that we havegained a lot of power, that we
have a lot of magic, that wehave not only the trauma but we
also have a lot of power, thatwe have a lot of magic, that we
have not only the trauma but wealso have a lot of strength
actually by accessing thestrength of our ancestors.
(32:36):
And just to give one examplewhat I mean by that sometimes I
am having dialogues aboutfundraising proposals.
Many activists know that youhave to go somewhere, you have
an appointment and you have totalk about money.
How much money do you need foryour project?
Why do you want that money foryour project?
(32:56):
You have to justify yourselfright.
And when I go to these kind ofconversations I'm having a
mindset trick that I'm reallyproposing to everyone out here
who is in this situation.
I'm calling my ancestors andI'm imagining to enter the room
with all the ancestors behind me, and this is actually giving a
(33:20):
kind of power andself-confidence in these
conversations.
That is invisible, but it isthere, it's present.
The people who sit in front ofme having the conversation.
They can feel that there issomething beyond the targets or
the wishes of the twoindividuals sitting there.
(33:43):
There is a whole history ofsurvivors, people who survived
the Nazis, people who survivedthe Holocaust, but people who
before that already had a longhistory of survival and becoming
strong.
So sitting there with theancestors behind me, just having
the thought, it changes thewhole way I have the
(34:05):
conversation.
It changes the outcome.
It changes the whole way I havethe conversation.
It changes the outcome, itchanges the output of what's
coming up and I think that'svery powerful.
And it's the opposite of beingashamed for being a Romani
person.
I think that's the veryopposite mindset To walk into a
room with the consciousness ofwho you are, because of who your
(34:26):
ancestors were.
Song (34:29):
Dear ancestors, I'm calling you, I'm feeling you.
We shall become your mouth tospeak in the present.
You shall become our strengthto fight in the future.
We are one through our commonfaith created in the past.
(35:05):
This is our trans-dimensionalpact.
Our ancestors, our presentpeople, our future movement
shall fight.
Fight as one, shall fight asone in all times and spaces.
Paulina (35:36):
Outsmarting death.
We actually have an ancestorworkshop coming up in March, so
we really strongly believe inthat, do you?
Want to talk about that alittle bit Jess.
Jezmina (35:50):
Yeah, I mean, thank you so much for sharing about that
ritual.
That is so moving and I justlove this idea of solidarity and
empowerment through ancestorwork, so that's just so gorgeous
.
Yeah, we've been reallyenjoying teaching ancestor
communication using tarot andhow to use your tarot practice
to commune with all types ofancestors and for listeners.
(36:14):
We finally set the dates forour Romanistan Festival.
It'll be March 28th till March30th in New Orleans and a lot of
it will be hosted at CottageMagic in New Orleans and
there'll be at least a couple ofother venues will be doing some
things with the TennesseeWilliams Festival, so stay tuned
(36:35):
.
That'll be on the website, but,if you're there, we'll be
teaching an ancestorcommunication workshop again at
Cottage Magic, so that'll bereally cool.
But wow, that is amazing.
You've been involved in so manyprojects.
Um, paulina, is there anythingelse you wanted to ask?
Paulina (36:51):
do you have anything coming up on the horizon that
our guests could look out for?
Nancy Black (36:57):
well, yes, sure, I'm having a lot of things
coming up on the horizon, but mymain problem is that all the
great things I do in the present, I'm never allowed to talk
about it because the funding isnot there yet or it is something
with politics, or it issomething with global affairs
(37:23):
future.
But actually I can tell youthat there is a lot of things
coming up and most of them areactually already beyond the
segregation of small communities.
It's about the unification ofoppressed communities.
A lot is about the consultingof people who fight for social
democracy and against capitalism.
(37:46):
So a lot of it is in politics,fighting actually the whole
far-right development around theglobe, also doing a lot of
stuff that is contributing toraising consciousness and
leaving like the small patterns.
And also, yes, something that Ican tell you is that I will
(38:06):
start teaching as a guestprofessor now in March, actually
in Munich at the University forSocial Science, where I will
have a whole class for twosemesters actually.
So it's not only one semester,I'm very honored to do it for
two semesters in Munich onleadership and disruptive.
(38:28):
Actually, it's disruptiveleadership, leadership in social
innovation, and I'm very happyto be that I was chosen actually
to teach that topic to socialscience students and it will be
hilarious that somebody who is,as I consider myself, like
(38:48):
anarchistic and chaotic methodslike, for example, I'm using
theatralic intervention withclassrooms, which for other
people really looks like strangeif I do it, but obviously this
university is progressive enoughto do it, so I'm very honored
to teach in the coming year.
(39:09):
So a leadership, and this isalso why, in the coming year, I
will have an online masterclasson actually leading social
innovation.
And, yeah, if it's officially,if I start with it Romanistan
podcast you will hear from me.
I will send you immediateinvitation.
Jezmina (39:29):
Please do.
Oh my gosh, you're going to besuch a wonderful professor.
They're really lucky to haveyou.
I want to take your classes.
We will keep everyone posted.
Yes, we would love to.
Is there anything you want toshare before we wrap up today?
Nancy Black (39:46):
Well, I want to share so much.
In fact, I think I share what Ican share all the time, but
maybe there is one thing that Iwant to share to the people who
listen.
Sometimes I receive emails andusually they start with it took
me so long to contact you.
I was so afraid because I feelso small and you are famous and
(40:08):
whatever.
So, to the people out there,don't worry, you can approach me
anytime.
Just send me an email.
You know I'm nancyblack101 onInstagram, so I do my social
media stuff by my own.
There is no agency, there is nomanagement.
I do it by myself.
If you have a question, if youneed support, if you are not
(40:31):
sure how to go on with your nextproject or development, or just
need some whatever spiritualconversation about the stars I
don't know you, but I don't care.
You can send me an email, youcan call me and I'm very open to
meet people who feel the needto meet me.
So namaste to all the lightsouls out there, um, if you have
(40:54):
feel the need to get to know me, just do it.
Jezmina (40:58):
I'm here thank you so much.
It's been such a pleasuretalking with you.
We really appreciate your, yourtime and everything that you've
shared.
Um, so listen, yeah sorry, goahead, paulina.
Paulina (41:14):
Yeah, this has been an honor.
We love and appreciate you yes,so listeners.
Jezmina (41:20):
Um, yeah, follow nancy black 101 on instagram.
Yeah, follow NancyBlack101 onInstagram.
Stay up to date with what'sgoing on and we are so grateful
for y'all tuning in.
And what a way to kick offseason five.
You're our first interview ofseason five, very exciting, and
yeah, thank you for being here,everyone.
(41:41):
Yay.
Nancy Black (41:45):
I thank you too, namaste, and I hope that people
also have fun listening to themusic in this podcast series.
Forward it to everybody whoneeds a little bit of light and
hope.
And thank you, RomanistanPodcast, for existing.
Nice to meet you thank you.
Paulina (42:44):
Thank you for listening to Romanistan Podcast.
Jezmina (42:48):
You can find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook
at Romanistan Podcast and onTwitter at RomanistanPod, To
support us, join our Patreon forextra content or just donate to
our Ko-Fi fundraiser, ko-ficombackslash romanistan, and please
rate, review and subscribe.
(43:09):
It helps people find our show.
Paulina (43:11):
it helps us so much you can follow jez on instagram at
jasminavantila and paulina atromani holistic.
You can get our book secrets ofrom-Telling online or wherever
books are sold.
Visit romanistanpodcastcom forevents, educational resources
(43:31):
and more.
Email us at romanistanpodcastat gmailcom for inquiries.
Jezmina (43:38):
Romanistan is hosted by Jasmina Von Tila and Paulina
Stevens, conceived of by PaulinaStevens, edited by Victor
Pachas, with music by VictorPachas and artwork by Elijah
Vardo.
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