From Roofing to White Glove: How These Founders Are Redefining the Industry with Zoe Boothe-Jarrett & Alec Eliasson

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What happens when two lifelong friends join forces to
disrupt the roofing experience?
In this episode, we dive intohow Alec and Zoe built East
Coast Roofing Systems to delivera white glove experience in an
industry known for anything butFrom dynamic automations to
granular pricing models.
They are building a businesswhere every touchpoint is
intentional.
They are building a businesswhere every touch point is

(00:23):
intentional.
Alec and Zoe are co-founders ofEast Coast Roofing Systems near
Philadelphia, with backgroundsin manufacturing, distribution,
design and real estate.
They're not just roofingcontractors.
They're systems thinkers,building a scalable,
customer-first brand.
Their obsession with clarityand precision is evident in
everything from drones and photoreports to SOPs that function

(00:47):
like assembly lines.
They believe roofing isn't justabout shingles.
It's about eliminating fear andfriction for the homeowner.
If you want to see what happenswhen white collar systems
thinking meets blue collarexecution, this episode is a
must listen.
Let's get into it with Alec andZoe from East Coast Roofing

(01:10):
Systems.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here tobring you insights from top
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your
roofing business.
Today we got Alec and Zoe EastCoast Roofing Systems.
How's it going?
Guys.
Hey Jim, how are you Thanks forhaving?

Speaker 3 (01:28):
us.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, let's talk a little bit about East Coast
Roofing Systems.
You guys are where, rightoutside of Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Yeah, so we service Southeastern Pennsylvania.
Okay, it's our market, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
All right.
How'd you guys get started?
How did this relationship cometo be?

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, so we can both.
We both have differentbackgrounds, I guess, so we can
chime in, right, so I, we'vebeen friends for a long time,
right, maybe now it's 20 plusyears traveling, unfortunately.
So I went to Temple University,went to college for landscape

(02:16):
architecture, graduated, got ajob in Center City working in an
architecture firm, worked therefor eight or so years seven,
eight, seven, eight years,something like that as a senior
project manager Right, worked onlike commercial, institutional
projects, like corporate campusstuff, like Apple, microsoft

(02:38):
type of stuff.
Like, none of my projects arein Pennsylvania either, to be
honest, and love the work.
Right, super interesting, superfun, super engaging.
I was just burned out that's theshort of it right, and hours
were brutal.
Money was not commensurate withthe hours.

(02:59):
Right, my wife and I wanted tohave a family.
Right, we wanted just thestereotypical stuff and wanted
to not live in the city anymore.
Nothing against the city,that's fine In the city.
Right, have family close bythat whole thing, right, so

(03:23):
Right, family close by thatwhole thing, right.
So, um, uh, right.
So alec and I conversationsright, starting up, starting up
a business roofing um, for anumber of reasons, uh, happened
to be our widget, right, so it'sa wig.
Right, we're entrepreneurs.
It's a widget um to us.
Very much so, um, right, sotransition period right, I was,

(03:45):
uh, teaching at temple as aprofessor for five or so years,
um, during that transitionperiod, because there's spare
time there too.
Right, as you're starting out.
Um, thanks, um, I'll, I'llforget you here.
Yeah, I too chime in yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
So, um, I was a little bit more so in the
industry.
I went to Penn State, graduated2014, came out immediately,
started working for a shinglemanufacturer and I was in kind
of the boots on the ground as arep calling on contractors in
northern New Jersey, and I'lltell you what.
That will toughen your skin upand give you a rougher

(04:20):
individual of a rougherindividual.
But it's okay though, because Ithink it kind of it hones your
sales craft and it makes youable to kind of overcome
objections with just about anyother person that you would
encounter in the day to day.
So I was with that manufacturerfor several years.
At one point I moved up, I waspromoted and I oversaw the state
of New Hampshire and me fordistribution and growing market

(04:43):
share up in that market, andthen I did have the opportunity
to come back down to this areaPennsylvania was also where I
grew up.
Zoe and I went to high schooltogether, so we go way back and
I had the opportunity to comeback down this way and work for
a distributor, and it was alocal distributor out of Reading
.
They sold roofing, siding,windows, doors, and so I'd come

(05:05):
now from manufacturing todistribution and I started to
engage with customers, othercompanies that were doing these
types of home service products,projects and services, and I
started to kind of see the innerworkings of how some of these
companies were doing business,the way their customer
interaction was, the way theirorders were being done, the way
that they were just overall,just the mechanics of a lot of

(05:28):
them in this area, and I beganto kind of see that, okay, well,
there's some opportunity herefor us to come in and be a
little bit more streamlined, youknow, with the usage of some
technology and and just kind of,uh, giving people a white glove
experience really with, with,with what we're doing here in

(05:50):
our brand.
So, uh, the timing uh coalescednicely with the timing zoe had
at that point in his life andthat was why we kind of we went
on this venture here to startthis business and, uh, like zoe
said, for us roofing and now wedo, we do siding and windows as
well.
Um, this is more of just awidget for us.
We do view ourselves asbusiness owners.

(06:13):
It just so happens we doroofing.
Uh, you have carpets, you can dopainting, you could do hpac.
There's several other avenues,but for us this was this was
low-hanging fruit for me, justgiven my experience in the
industry, already to kind ofstep into this role.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, and to a higher level too.
I think the home serviceindustry, to a certain extent,
is like an untapped industry, Ithink, for business owners as a
whole.
So that's also pretty recession, pretty recession resistant for
certain verticals within it.
Um, right, so that that's super.
That was super interesting toboth of us.

(06:51):
Right, and alec had experienceand it was a good.
It was a good in um to thatright where, like, you can pick
a ton of other industries right,like, uh, marketing fintech, uh
, etc.
Marketing FinTech, et cetera.
They've sort of been prettyconsolidated right, capital,

(07:11):
whatever have you, where homeand service is pretty fragmented
.
It's still a lot of family-runbusinesses.
Nothing wrong with that,nothing wrong with that at all.
However, from anentrepreneurial point of view,
there's a lot of opportunitybecause of that, because once
things get consolidated, theyalso they right, they trend

(07:37):
towards, they're always at afiner point.
Right, they're always towards acutting edge.
Money knows that.
Right, it attracts talent.
So that was interesting to ustoo, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
And those years in distribution and manufacturing
Alec, like that must, I couldsee how that would be.
Like, oh, I see this business alittle bit more clearly than
maybe another business that wewould try to go into.
Right, like, there's alwaysthat.
It's kind of what is it?
You know the um, the uhcashflow quadrant by Robert

(08:13):
Kiyosaki.
As you start off as an employee,then move to self-employed,
then business owner and theninvestor, right, like, as an
employee, you're kind of you're,you're learning the business,
you're learning the skills.
Like, I've actually taken jobsearlier in my life that I was
like, I want to work here to seeif I want to own this business.
Like, you know, like, is this,is this what it looks like from

(08:33):
the outside?
Right, like, and, and a coupleof times I found out, boy, that
was not what it looked like.
I'm glad I didn't uh, just goand start that business.
Um, what have your guys'sthoughts?
Like it you're really talkingabout?
You came into this with themindset of building a business

(08:53):
versus being a roofer.
So what were some of thoseinitial, initial plans or
initial thoughts that you hadwhere you were going to, the
things that you felt like youcould improve upon, what was
happening in the industryalready.

Speaker 4 (09:11):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I'll be quick.
I know you have a lot ofthoughts.
I think that right, so I'vedone it.
I know you have done some realestate investing too.
I've done a decent amount ofreal estate investing too, so
I've worked with a lot ofcontractors.
You did Right through that.

(09:32):
I GC'd a lot of my own flipsand rentals and it's similar to
hiring, right, yes, youinterview 20 to get one type of
activity and seeing the customerexperience right of those

(10:03):
contractors leaves something tobe desired.
Everyone is like not saying thatat all and there's a niche for
everybody, right?
Some people want that, right,some people like different
experiences.
That's totally fine.
Um, however, we personally andI think a lot of people do right
, there's a right little uhcaricature of your ideal

(10:23):
customer, right, and um, we, wefeel that that experience should
be like going to the store andbuying a mac.
Right, that experience youshould be like going to pen
medicine and or whatever largehospital chain and booking an
appointment and getting servicethere.
Right, like it should be thattailored, simple, easy, customer

(10:49):
service friendly um you canmake some negative comparisons.
Some large uh cell phoneproviders internet providers are
not terribly that that's what Isaw, mostly high right, super
high level.
Um the customer service.
The customer service experiencewas incredibly lacking right um

(11:11):
all touch points rightthroughout the process, right
from communication to, um, clearexpectations being set, to
clear documentation of things.
Right, and I, I used to writemy own contracts that I would
give to them to sign to andwrite spec sheets and stuff to
hold them accountable, but theycertainly weren't providing that

(11:34):
to me, um, which was normal inmy right in my other job.
Yeah, besides, besides thatright.
Anyway, sorry, I'll let you go,I know you have a lot.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah.
So a lot of what we want to doand kind of building the brand
around, giving somebody a goodwhite glove experience right,
they call they need a homeservice done and having them
have a nice positive experienceA lot of that is communication
for us and education.
Most customers, you know theyget a roof.

(12:08):
They call they need a roof,they see water coming in, right.
Most people, if they're lucky,they'll get one roof done in
their life.
Maybe if they're lucky they'llget two.
You know it's you're notgetting them often right, and
most folks just they're not evenreally thinking about it.
So a lot of what we do iseducation of the customer.
You know, when we go out,explain to the customer hey, mrs

(12:29):
Homeowner, here's what I seethat's happening right now,
here's why that's happening andhere are the action steps that
we're going to take to fix thatproblem for you or get that
rectified.
And I think that value andshowing a customer and educating
them on that process and whatthat looks like is really
something that is lacking, Ithink, in the industry.
It's just people don't knowotherwise and then it does come

(12:52):
down to oh, this guy was lessmoney than this guy.
Yeah, well, that guy got on theroof and he explained to me
exactly what they're going to doand why they're doing it.
I know more about roofing than Iwould care to know otherwise it
I know more about roofing thanI would care to know otherwise,
and that's where we're trying toand that is our and that is our
customer.
Ultimately, it's the customerthat still does want to buy on
value.
Um, yeah, because you could bethe cheap guy one day and the

(13:14):
next day another guy will comein and undercut you and then,
you know, take your lunch.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
We want to try to circumvent that and and approach
it a different way and what aresome of the lessons that you've
learned in the implementationof this so far?

Speaker 3 (13:30):
that there are customers that are not aligned
with that mindset and I'mlooking to do some people are
just cheap yeah, it's.
That is one thing, though.
There there's some customersthat you know you can lead a
horse to water but you can'tmake a drink, so to speak, and
so there is some of that.
But we've also learned thatthere's customers that might

(13:53):
even want a next level of whiteglove service.
So we're constantly learning tojust improve and and really
kind of tailor our craft to givethem that.
So we came in with goodintentions and good thoughts on
what we wanted to do, but it'sbeen a kaizen, a constant
improvement and growth of thatprocess here for us, and that, I

(14:17):
think, is just going to becontinual as we continue to
engage with customers, and thatwill never stop.
It'll just continue to tighten,tighten.

Speaker 4 (14:25):
So yeah, I think, um, to add on that, that's exactly
what I was.
I had in my mind too.
I, I, um, I think, well, maybetwo things.
I think we've learned that theworld is drifting very quickly
towards instant gratification.
Right, it's that amazon, nextday, uh, subscription,

(14:45):
subscription, one click button.
Right, that is taking theamount of friction out of every
single interaction down to theyclick, they get.
Right, it's as simple as that.
So, like, you, remove all thosefriction points, right, and
those friction points could belack of communication.

(15:05):
Right, the customer has toreach out and, oh, like, when
are you coming again, orwhatever, happy, right.
So, like, really making that asstreamlined and I'm not
necessarily saying less touchpoints, it's just that it's
clear, smoother, everything isless friction.
And I think, in getting there,right, to directly answer your

(15:27):
question about what we'velearned throughout the process,
we believe that it's anever-ending process.
To what Alec was saying right,it's a never-ending iterative
process.
Right, so we will never be done.
Improving that customer serviceexperience, right, that
customer journey, and right, wehave it mapped out.
Right, we have a document thatis a map of if this, then that

(15:52):
arrows to different boxes andstuff.
Like that it's the customerjourney and like, if they say
this, okay, it goes to this box,right, and then this happens
and then, right, it's thisdiverging blue chart.
And we have meetings with ourentire company and they
understand that whole process sothey can interact properly and

(16:12):
we constantly change right,something happens right and we
change it right.
And I guess I went to designschool, right, I went to design
school, right, I, that's, that'smy thing.
So, thinking of it in thatworld, like that's always an
iterative process, like thatdesign is never done, like
there's right, you start offwith concept design, which most

(16:36):
people think of as design, right, but then you get into
schematic design and you getinto design development and you
get into constructiondocumentation, then you get into
construction administration,then you get into design
development, then you get intoconstruction documentation, then
you get into constructionadministration, then you get
into post construction umevaluation right, it's, it's
just this.
It's this whole process andtheir percentages associated
with each one of those Um.
So it is.

(16:56):
Is this never ending refinementprocess, from little tweaks to
oh, does the auto, does theautomated email go out at 8 30
am or does it go out at 9 30 am?
When right, are people taking acoffee break at 9 or 8, uh
right, 10, 15 am?
Yeah, are they more likely towrite something, pops up their
phone and they open it.
Or are they going to hit theassignments button on their
phone when email notificationcomes at 8 30 and they're

(17:19):
getting that type of stuff?
That it's.
It starts to get down todetails, so very granular.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Here's a question that I thought of during that
and I think it's.
I think that a lot of times aswe're iterating on our customer
experience or any of our SOPs orprocesses in our company, a lot
of times you know, it's thatkind of that analogy of the
loudest mouths get fed.
So the problem children inflecton those changes when in your

(17:55):
thought process really aroundthat design process, kind of how
you're thinking about that, zoe, is it?
How do you determine if it's anoutlier or if it's hey, we
really need to change this from830 to 945.
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(19:00):
journey today.
How do you determine if it's anoutlier or if it's?
Hey, we really need to changethis from 830 to 945, right?
Is it an outlier or is it a?
Oh, you're smiling, I likeyou're like oh, I got a good
answer.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
We just had this conversation yesterday.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, it's like you know, like because there's so
many things that are coming atus all the time, when do we know
if it's something that we needto change, or if it's, or if
it's an outlier, like a one-offscenario?

Speaker 4 (19:33):
yeah, yeah, yeah, you're asking, you're asking a
million dollar question.
We did, we took this yesterday.
Um, so we, um a couple ofthings, in particular order, um,
again, excellent question.
That, uh, that, um, that welook at everything through a

(19:55):
lens of what actually moves theneedle right, what actually
matters and cause there's atriage to everything too.
Right, like, and some things, um, don't have impact necessarily.
Right, like, there can be a lotof noise, but it it just

(20:15):
doesn't matter.
Right like I I always think of,I think of an extremes right
sort of analogies.
Right, so there might be, thereprobably is, there is another
albert einstein out there, right, with an iq of 180, but there
they live.
Right, they live above thearctic circle, right in some one

(20:37):
room building and the potentialis there, but, but nobody knows
.
And they might be doingastrophysics, calculations and
string theory stuff and whateverhave you, but nobody knows and
therefore it doesn't matterbecause they have no input, it
just doesn't matter.
Somebody could be carving aperfectly round marble ball.

(21:00):
It's incredible, it'sabsolutely incredible work of
art.
Just doesn't matter, though,right, doesn't have any real
impact.
Um, so we look at thingsthrough the lens of, like, what
actually moves the needle, wedefine what the needle is
through our kpis like we wantthings, man right, and if
something doesn't actuallyresult in changing the kpis that

(21:21):
we want, it's not worth doing.
There's a finite time.
Is the valuable resource right?
So that's sort of the lens thatwe look at things through.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Hey Jim.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
Hi, you're muted.
I'm muted.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Sorry.
What I was thinking about inthat is, you were talking about
the KPIs and making sure that itmatters.
So I guess first we need theKPIs.
There is no chicken and egghere.
It's like get the KPI first,because then you can determine

(22:06):
if it matters or not, or if it'smoving the needle or not, how
you know.
How did you go about developingthe right KPIs for East Coast?

Speaker 4 (22:18):
Yeah, yeah, we just define what we want, right.
We believe that.
We believe that life's veryconceptually, we believe that
life can just float away.
If you let it right, it'll takeyou right.
And so you have to define whatyou want, right.
Like if you choose what youwant out of it and then you work

(22:42):
backwards to get it at the endof the day, right.
So like, if we want to totallymake it numbers, if you want to
do $100 million in gross revenue, right, okay, what margin
statistically can you hit andyou work backwards, right.
So it's 10 or 15% or whatever,like either margins like net

(23:04):
margin, okay.
So then you start to workbackwards from there.
And then you work backwards.
Okay, so, what's your averagejob value?
And you can how many?
What's your closing percentage?
Uh, yeah, what's your lead fullof like wait, what's your book
look like?
What's your qualified andunqualified leads volume, look

(23:26):
like?
And then you can work backwardsto like, okay, which platforms
can you obtain those through?
And et cetera, et cetera, etcetera.
It's just this huge funnel downto whatever.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
I was just going to say, yeah, what Zoe said, though
.
We, ultimately we set yearlybudgets of, hey, this is what we
want to do this year, dollarwise, how much do we want to do?
And then let's back engineerthat.
How do we arrive at that number?
All right, we're going to do 70of it's going to be retail,
residential roof replacements,but the other 30 is going to be

(23:57):
gutters, skylights, repairs,that type of thing, and then
kind of work our way, we tic-tacour way back then to say, okay,
well then, that would mean thatwe need 75 leads a week and we
need to be closing at a 35 to 40percent close rate, and we need
to be, you know, and thenthat's how we.
So, ultimately, it's by settinga goal of what we want and then

(24:19):
kind of reverse engineering ofwhat do we need to move lever
wise to get that?
Yeah, um, so, and that's that'sbeen the most, that makes the
most sense for us, and that'sbeen kind of how we, the levers
that we pull here.
So for us, I mean, the biggestthing, the biggest driver for us
to grow sales year over year,is at least what we found.
The bottleneck is its lead flowand sales close percentage.

(24:42):
If any company can get the leadflow and sales close percentage
dialed in, they've won the game.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's the 80-20 in your guys' mind.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
Yes, that's my thought.
Yeah, and to be fair, we doretail.
We're 100% retail.
Yes, I totally understand.
Different companies havedifferent structures in terms of
retail and work right.
Yeah, restoration On the retailside, that's what we found.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yes, because they're different animals.
Insurance is a little bit of adifferent beast, yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
What were some of the hardest metrics to determine?
What were some of the hardestmetrics to determine Like?
What were some of the ones thatyou're like, man?
Are we just like?
These have been challenging tofigure out how to measure this.
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Speaker 1 (26:07):
What were some of the hardest metrics to determine?
Like what?
What were some of the ones thatyou're like man, are we just
like these?
Are?
These have been challenging tofigure out how to measure this.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
Yeah, um, everything, uh, so we uh two things come to
mind, I think maybe maybe threethings.
We were super analytical andlike how we make decisions and

(26:42):
like break down data, but butthe reality is it's hard, right,
it is hard right.
So like, um, I know we're formarketers, is uh, omnipresent
approach?
Yep, a lot of, a lot ofmarketing stuff that's not
directly attributable.

(27:02):
Right, that's hard, that's hardyeah, marketing is hard.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Sometimes it's a hard metric to measure yep right it
is, I got a depression, but wasthat going to result in me
actually getting a sale?

Speaker 4 (27:14):
yep, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, 100.
So not to say we don't we do itor don't do it right, yeah, we
do do it, I guess.
Yeah, never, yeah, it'ssometimes it's hard to like call
tracking numbers, get youplaces right, that, uh, all that
type of stuff right, you canuse call rail and that's great
and you can get to all your data.

(27:34):
But, yeah, so, like a googlelsa lead and a ppc lead and home
advisor angie or whatever, likethey're pretty directly
attributable to like that fivedollars that you spend or a
hundred dollars or whatever.
Yep, however, a billboard mightnot be right, or that rat truck
might not be, or that yard signmight not be.

(27:54):
Those are yard signs.
Will make it a little easiersometimes if it's an.
However, yeah, conceptually,that that's a hard one.
Another another hard one istrue cash flow.
Sometimes on a daily basis or aweekly basis type of thing.
There's a lot of money thatflows in and out.

(28:19):
Every business has that, butit's New York money Just passing
through, passing through justjust stopping by to say hi,
goodbye, yeah, so like on a on ashorter time scale, right, it's
easy to right over the courseof a year, it's easy to click

(28:41):
upon any quickbooks and be like,oh, I made five thousand
dollars this year or whatever,right, but on a shorter time
scale, to actually makedecisions off of on a weekly,
weekly, is probably a goodtimeline for what I'm getting at
on a weekly basis, like that's,that's hard, like that's hard.
Like there are a ton of unpaidbills that are right, there

(29:02):
might be bills sitting in like60 different categories that
like there's $10,000 here,there's ten thousand dollars
here, there's a thousand dollarshere, there's a hundred
thousand dollars here, there'sfive thousand dollars here,
there's five hundred dollarshere.
Like that are just sitting insome silo, right, but they all
it's not your money, right, it'sa bunch of credit cards type of
activity and, again, on ashorter time scale, that's hard

(29:25):
to make decisions off of actualcash flow.
Right, you can get close.
I'm not saying you can't getclose, but like, yeah, you can't
.
I guess, uh, um, uh, I, I thinkanother one, um, another one
might be.
Another one might beunderstanding what got you a

(29:49):
result.
Sometimes, in general, go to adata-related business right,
because sometimes you can't.
It's not this right.
It's not always a scientificmethod where you can control 100
variables and change one.
Yeah, again you can get close.
I think plenty are attributes,but again it's about knowing

(30:11):
your data to make decisions offof it.
I guess that's really what I'mtalking about.
Everything that I said is thatright.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Those of all that are .
Yeah, there's a lot ofchallenging ones.
The marketing is for sure.
I wasn't thinking about thecash flow, the day-to-day cash
flow.
That's another one.
Really understanding whereyou're at, as you guys have
built this up, and really Ithink the way that you said it
to me and let's talk about thatcustomer journey and customer
experience a little bit, I thinkthe way you put it, maybe when

(30:44):
we had a call, the other's a youwant to create a sure thing for
customers, right, you'reeliminating the fear,
eliminating the friction.
We talked a little bit abouthow that is done through
communication and education, abalance of communication and
education.
But you also walk through thelike.

(31:04):
You have these mind maps oflike crazy.
You know flow charts of all the.
You know how this works.
What have been some of the mostthe things that have stood out
in developing that customerjourney?
Like, what are some of thethings that have that?
You've gotten that really trueresponse from the customer Like,

(31:26):
yeah, we can measure that Like,that one did make a difference.
Like, I know there's a lot thatare not, that are challenging
to understand, but what weresome of the ones that you're
like yeah, that one, right there.
That one was definitely one ofthose that, like we, made this
change in that customerexperience, and it was.
We saw it in our reviews, or wesaw you know something like

(31:49):
what were some of those.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
I was just going to say so to go with the
communication thing, that's thereal big thing on a production
basis for us is just relayingexactly what we're doing to the
homeowner at all times.
Hey, here's where this stands,here's what's going to happen,
and I think, implementing a lotof that type of technology where
they were just getting hit,there was never something that

(32:14):
was just up in the air of likehuh, I haven't heard from those
guys lately.
I wonder what they're doing.
Like no, it was almost like allright, I got it, like I'll see
you on Tuesday, type deal, youknow and it and so.
That though didn't allow forany friction, and then things
just kind of synced Like theywould go smoothly.
When we were over communitymeeting, and a lot of it was

(32:35):
just automations, really, we setup a lot of pre-templated
automations that go out viaemail.
Uh, generally we also have aSOP for our sales guys to follow
up secondhand with the customer.
Hey, mrs Homeowner, just givingyou a heads up, we're coming
out X, y, z.
Expect a dumpster on this day.
Expect us at this time.
Expect dumpster pickup on thisday.

(32:58):
All of that just pretty muchjust over communication.
And once we really started toimplement those systems.
There was less headache Likethe homeowner.
We were no longer on theirradar of like, oh, I got to
watch those guys.
It was like we had earned thattrust through that communication
and that's really what thiswhole thing is about.
People are spending thousandsof dollars.

(33:19):
They just want to know hey,alec and Zoe seem like good guys
, it looks like they're runninga good ship here and they're not
going to screw me.
And that's really what it comesdown to, and if we can convey
that to them in a way that theyfeel good about it, that's a lot
of it too.
It's just making people feelwarm and fuzzy, and
communication and doing theback-end automations for that

(33:41):
was what really kind of made itmore seamless.
There was less friction, likeyou referred to.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, and that's what it is.
I always say I've said it onthe podcast many times if your
customer's wondering you'relosing, it happens all the time.
In all the things I'm having anew side by side, I bought a
side by side out of state.
I'm having it shipped up andthe guy that that's shipping it
I'm like, okay, is it on theroad yet?

(34:10):
Did you?
You know, like, what's going onhere?
It's been a couple of days.
They picked it up from thedealership.
You know.
Now I'm losing faith Like the.
You know, and it's not thatthey're not doing a good job,
it's just that I don't know whatthey're doing or what's
happening.
So it's, you know, it's likethere's.
It's just understanding it fromthe customer's perspective and

(34:35):
and knowing that you know, mygoodness, that's it.
You would think it's a simplething all right for us.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
well, even forward facing with the customer
communication is huge.
But even internally for uswe're back and forth, internally
emails amongst everybody hereon the team where, like,
everything is not overcommunicated but it's
communicated effectively.
There's no like, there's nothings that are like up in the
air, like oh yeah, I don't knowabout that, let me check.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Like no, it's pretty clear what we're doing and
everyone's kind of in the loop,and so that is nice and we do a
lot of our crm yeah, yeah, andso that's the behind the scenes
of the of the customerexperience, right, all of the
details that the team needs toknow, making sure that
everyone's informed of what'shappening, what's coming next.
Has materials been ordered?
Has this been done?

(35:24):
Has this been scheduled as thedumpster there or not?
Like all of the things alongthe way, did you build one first
or did you build them outcongruently?
Like hey, we're just buildingit all at the same time, like we
want to make sure what are someof the most important things
that are happening on the teamside in the team communication
then, what are some lessons thatyou learned there?

(35:45):
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(36:08):
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(36:30):
Your full ai team is ready.
What are some of the mostimportant things that are
happening on the on the teamside, in the team communication,
then?
What are some lessons that youlearn there?
This is him, yeah systems herethis is his his love language.

Speaker 4 (36:50):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I mentioned traction, if rocket
fuel, I know, is that anothersequel?
Yeah, I'm, I've sitting there.
I'm an integrator, like I.
I love that system, process I,um, it's my thing.

(37:13):
So I, I, um, I, uh, I couldn't.
I always make a joke.
I couldn't sell a rock toaquari, like that's not my core
competency.
Um, I'm at home in a room bymyself with headphones on and
some spreadsheets and that,that's, that's nice, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
Um, I do the sales yeah, yeah, he's great at
training, right that's righttraining sales sales teams and I
because I couldn't, I wouldn'twant to or couldn't do what he
does.

Speaker 4 (37:46):
So it's a good yin and a yang thing here we got
going, so yeah, um, to answeryour question, I, um, I, I think
I, we, we designed the systemsat the same time because I think
they're integral to one anotherand one doesn't really function
well without.
So there's a lot that goes onbehind the scenes.

(38:08):
That also well, it does twothings right.
One is to one is a lot thathappens to ensure that customer
service experience right.
There's a lot of stuff thatcustomer just doesn't see that
happens.
That makes it easy, right, likethat.
Right, like it's, it's likecode, right, um, yeah, right,

(38:29):
we're like I taught a lot of umcomputer tech, uh classes like
architectural computer tech anda lot of it's like right, it's
like uh, parametric modeling,python stuff and like seems
super easy that you just move aslider and like this stuff
happens.
But the reality is like thecode behind that is aggressive,
so it's just, it's very similar,right, like it's that one click

(38:53):
button on Amazon, like that'snot a simple thing, really,
that's very complicated.
So like that's the customersees it Life's, life's polished
experience.
Behind the scenes.
There are automations, right,the same time the customer gets
that automated email.
So I'm making it up it dependson the email, right?
Maybe it's not an email, right?

(39:14):
We have a lot of other stuffthat goes on there.
It's not going to be an email,other forms of communication,
triggers, right, somethingtriggers it and then Zapier will
add something to a sheet andensuring the production manager
and they'll schedule this onthis date and it will
automatically send somethingelse, type of type of stuff.

(39:36):
So I I don't know, I think we doover communicate in internally,
um, and I think there are twomain spots where we found that
internal communication is key.
Right, so we focus on those,not that we don't focus on the
rest of it.
So we have our own assemblyline internally is how I think

(40:01):
of it.
Right, so, like there's one guy, all he does is put the rivets
in the front, a pillar right,that's all he does.
It moves on to the next personand she installs the seats.
It's the Henry Ford 7.
And each person has their corecompetency and that's what they

(40:21):
do.
And then it moves to the nextperson and between those are
those friction points.
Right, that's where balls getdropped.
So you refine those frictionpoints and balls get dropped
less.
It will never be perfect.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Just like sales, right?
Yeah, one of my guys is out onsite.
He's had a nice conversationwith the homeowner.
They discussed scope of work,came to an agreement on a price.
We proceeded here with thecontract.
We got all that out to them.
But there's a period in which atransition takes place between
sales and production, and it'sthat right there that little

(41:00):
transition period that thatneeds to be dialed in, because
that one little transition canthen throw a lot of the backend
stuff here out of whack, and sothat that's one thing that we do
a lot.
Uh, we have a system in placefor that too, where the salesman
um relays any job related infothat's required, uh for

(41:22):
production, and we have like apre-templated uh form really
that they fill out for all ofthat noting it.
So that way when it gets passedto production then it's like he
says you know the Henry Fordfactory, for me it's like a
relay race, right, I'm handingthe baton to them, and now they

(41:42):
got the baton and they're goingto start running with it, and
they're going to start runningwith it.
So that's.
But between sales andproduction, those are.
That little transition piece iscritical.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
I think, for things to run good and it's not just
definitely you know away fromthe phone call thing Like that
gets forgotten, right, somebodyelse can't look at that.
Yeah, right, it's that same.
Like that information betweensales and production also gets
moved to billing.
And like production edits rightand insert something for what

(42:15):
actually happened, cross-check,right, Cross-check billing for
right Dumpster cost andsubcontracted labor costs and
right, so that's all audited andit's all in one place and we
can all look, and whoever doesthat can just check it and it's
right, or it's and right.
So that's all audited and it'sall in one place and we can all
look and whoever does that canjust check it and it's right or
it's not right.
And then there's no discrepancy.
Like there's not a phone call,it's like oh, like well, did you

(42:37):
actually bid this this way ordid you not?
Like no, it's just there, it'sblack and white, it is what it
is.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
And it does shift too , cause it'll go from office
admin then to sales, thenproduction, then back to office
admin, then back to sales, andlike.
So there's a little bit of aperiod here where it's shifting
hats here and it's gettingtouched by a few folks.
But that process, though, hasallowed us to then scale and do
volume to where we can.
Yeah, we can turn and burn somework here, uh, which has been
good.
Uh, we also don't price stuffby the square, I?
I know we talked prior about it, that's what we were talking

(43:09):
about.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
I was going to go there next that's exactly what I
was thinking about.
That kind of went into pricingand things like that.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Explain that a little bit, yeah, so our view on it is
every job is nuanced.
There's not some formula hey, Ican go to this house and it's
going to be this amount of money.
So we don't quote stuff thatway.
We very much it is by the job.
You know some guys, a lot ofcompanies are structured where,

(43:38):
oh, I charge this per square.
We don't charge by the square.
That's not.
We get a calculated job pricebased on inputs that we get on a
per job basis.
One of the inputs is materialcost, right.
One of them is our labor costand those are all pre-templated
templates that are in our CRM.
So when our sales guys go in todo an estimate, hey, I need 35

(44:01):
of these, and they put it in andthen, after all is said and
done, it spits them out laborand material numbers, and then
you're taking those inputs andyou're putting them into another
formula we have and then, afterall is said and done, it's
putting you out with hey, thisis kind of where the job needs
to be more or less, and it'sbeen good because it allows us
to give you a good, true,accurate price per job.

(44:24):
I tell people it doesn't matterif I'm installing a roof on a
trailer or I'm installing a roofon a million dollar mansion.
It's the same material and thesame labor.
More or less it's going to bethe same price.
It really is.
That's just what it costs.
So which is which works in ourfavor, because then we can scale
that, and I think we pick up alittle bit of stuff too from

(44:45):
guys that are like, oh, I, I'mgonna make a killing on this job
.
Look at these people's yard,you know.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
And then we, yeah, so anyway, it's incredibly
objective for us, like, yeah,it's incredibly objective, like
the, the and I know it, it Idon't know if it sounds
complicated on the surface ornot, but it is.
It's like the.
It allows us to scale right the.
We have live link pricing toour material supplier, right,

(45:10):
live link, instant, real time.
So, like, if they change it, itis what it is and there is
right, the sales person just hasto look at the material
measurement report that we getorder right, order and just
upload it to the crm and right,they just populate a couple
columns and it's allpre-templated right, five
minutes right and it's allpre-negemplated right.
Five minutes right and it's allpre-negotiated labor costs for

(45:31):
everything, whether it be hourlyor by the foot or by the square
or whatever, and populates.
And we built an algorithm witha couple punch in things and a
couple checkboxes to assessreally time, risk, uh, effort

(45:52):
type of stuff and um, right, sothey're like I don't know eight
potential inputs, right,material price is one, labor
price is one, uh, size isanother, um and um, and it spits

(46:14):
you out of sale price.
And we audit our jobs heavilyand we've never lost money,
oriella.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
We've lost money in variety of other ways.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
Yeah, yeah, in other ways, yeah so the analogy that I
always think of is like youhire a plumber right to install
a solid gold toilet right, Tenmillion dollars, maybe, right.
Are they going to charge you?
Are they going to market for it?

(46:39):
Are they going to mark 40points on that?
Because that's how they getjobs, right?
So it's all of a sudden I guessI can't do the math it's
actually more than 14 millionanyway.
Yeah, um, um.
I want to get the math rightnow, but I I can't we'll call it

(46:59):
14 million?
yeah, um and right.
Or are they going to chargetheir $250 installation fee for
the toilet?
Yeah, right.
So just because a job is right,just because we're putting on a
designer shingle, we willfactor in the time associated
with that and we will factor inthe risk associated with that

(47:24):
and the effort maybe, and right,increase material cost.
And the effort maybe, andincrease material cost.
But outside of those things,literally just because the
dollar value of the job ishigher, that doesn't warrant an
increased margin or profit forus.
So we factor in everything elsein the back of the calculator,

(47:46):
we factor payroll taxes for thesales commission on a specific
job.
We fact everything right.
Thank you cards being sent outto the homeless, $5.
They add up, they add up, right, everything adds up, yeah,
anyway.
So like, yeah, we do not priceby the job, we feel that that's
a blunt object.
Or, I'm sorry, we don't priceby the square, we feel that

(48:09):
that's a blunt object.
Or, I'm sorry, we don't priceby the square, we feel that
pricing by the square is a bluntobject.
Really, a scalp is required.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
How did you guys determine?
It sounds like I think and I'vehad this conversation a couple
times, but I feel like a lot oftimes companies or contractors
will price arbitrarily.
Companies or contractors willprice arbitrarily.
What I mean by that is they'llsay well, bob, down the streets

(48:38):
at, you know 500 a square andSally over there is at 550.
And you know we'll just be atthat.

Speaker 4 (48:42):
Like that's where we're at too, hey Jim, and so I
think you cut out there when youguys were putting your pricing
together.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
When you guys were putting your pricing together,
how did you determine what?
It sounds like you weren'tlooking at the competitors.
You're very detailed in whatyour pricing should be for your
potential like, for yourprofitability and things like

(49:09):
that.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Yeah, so we are very clear on what we're putting on
and scope of work with thecustomer and the timeframe
associated with that on everyjob, and every job is different
depending on what it is we'redoing.
But I also would say thatsometimes there's a little bit
of a disconnect between what thehomeowner gets from competitors

(49:31):
.
Right, somebody could quote aroof replacement, right, but
they're not factoring certainthings and they're not
necessarily apples to applesestimates, whereas, like, we
tend to be very, very clear withthis is exactly what you're
getting and here's the costassociated with that.
Um, and and communicating thateffectively to the homeowner so
they understand.

(49:51):
That is important and that'ssomething that myself, as well
as my sales guys, need to do, uh, to make sure that there's no
um discrepancy or confusionthere.
Because sometimes homeownerswill look at a few estimates
most people are getting three,maybe four, right and then
they're looking at pricing andthey're like, oh, they're all
roof replacements.
Well, no, they're not.
And you know, because wesometimes I always as we ask

(50:14):
homeowners oh, just send us overwhat they said, you can cross
out the price, we'll not eventalk about that.
Let's see what they wrote,scope of work, and they sent you
some bar napkin with some guythat wrote a number on it and a
couple of things yeah, roof.
A number on it and a couple ofthings yeah, roof replacement.
Uh, but you're not changing thecounterflag yeah, drip edge,
like you're not replacing theskylight unit.
Uh, if there's so, anyway, forus it goes back to the

(50:38):
communication thing.
We're, like we try to like bevery clear of like, hey this is
exactly what you're getting andit's it's itemized on our
estimate.
Uh, we're pretty anal with that, if you haven't.
I mean, you've been talkingwith zoe and I enough now to see
that yeah, he's got hiscomputer with his headphones on

(50:59):
in the spreadsheet well he'salso looking.
You know we do drones, so my, mysales guys do the drone thing.
It's great, we love it.
For one, it's a safety thingtoo, on roofs that are a little
bit more sketchy stuff I mean, Iwas on a roof here today, but
you know stuff that gets alittle bit steep or a little bit
non-walkable it's good to throwa drone up and get some photos

(51:21):
of it, and it's good formultiple reasons.
One, it's another valueproposition.
You're showing the homeownerhey, here's going to be what we
do, or here's a before and afterof your roof when we come in.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
It's a show.
Right, you're out there, peopleare looking, it's a show.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
It is, and it also helps for production standpoint.
So, like, if we have a nail, wedo repairs, right.
We have a nail pop we're notsure, but it's in this general
vicinity, right.
Our sales guys have the abilityto mark up a photo saying, hey,
this is the exact area that weneed to remove here to pinpoint
what's going on underneath, uh,that type of thing.

(51:56):
So the drone thing has beengreat and, uh, it's, it's good
because we, we take a lot ofphotos.
So when he's not looking atspreadsheets, he is looking at
photos to make sure our crew istying off when they're supposed
to and doing everything.
And that's one someone also um,our guys tie off, tie off.
That's.
Uh, we're not, we're not reallyplaying with the whole osha

(52:18):
fine game thing.
I, I've been down that road and, uh, we're not interested in
continuing that.
So our guys are very much oceancomplied.
We tie off on every job.
It's a non-starter, it's kindof non-negotiable for us.
So, uh, yes, sales feature itis so most people don't.
It's a safety thing too.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
But but a safety thing that you can then talk
about in the sales process,right in the education process,
in the you know um, and then thedrone and using the drones, you
know it's a great visualrepresentation photos.
You know none of very few ofthese homeowners have been on

(52:59):
their roof.
Yeah, you know like to reallybe able to tell the story of
what's happening and what youplan to do.
It's very impactful.
I think you guys also I mean,from what I remember is you guys
have built a pretty goodfollowing on social media with a
lot of this content.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
We're getting there.
We're certainly getting there.
So we on Instagram, I thinkthis past week we went over nine
grand followers, yeah, so sowe're getting there on that.
But yeah, for us, I we're kindof following suit with you guys
with the omnipresent approach.
Yes, we just want to be infront of everyone.
I want to hammer everyone withyard signs.

(53:42):
I want facebook, advertising,instagram, all of that stuff.
I just want to.
They might not need a servicefrom me right now, but when they
do, they're going to give us acall because they've seen me
probably 18,000 times.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
And that's our goal.
I think we also talked a littlebit about event marketing, and
you know that's one of thosethings man the roi from events
is always a challenging one.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Yeah, I I, yeah, I I mean they're good quality
impressions, right, like theyare.
They're good qualityimpressions, um, and we, we have
attributed some, right, we'veattributed some back.
Um, yes to events.
Um, yeah, but absolutely, butit is, it's hard, right, it's
hard, it's hard, but it is theomnipresent approach.

(54:30):
Right, it doesn't cost a lot ofmoney, right, to do those types
of things, like, a lot ofevents are $100 to get a table
right.
We have tent logo, flag,whatever, right.
All this stuff right and it is.
It's good impressions.
You do the 10th thing and youdo this, the sign thing, and you

(54:51):
send the direct mail and you,etc, etc etc, etc.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
And that's the all of those touch points add up.
For sure it does.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
And some of those smaller ones.
Like you said, if you know 100bucks here, set a table up, we
get one lead out of.
That's less than my cost perlead that we're running for
marketing.
So for me.
We're in the green already,right off the rip.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
If you think about it that way.
That's a, that's yeah, that'sbarely an LSA lead these days.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
Yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Um, how did what?
What is your mind?
How has your mindset shiftedfrom when you guys started till
now, like has there been a orlike how has it evolved through
through being in business forsome, you know, a few years now?

Speaker 4 (55:40):
Yeah, that's, that is a good question.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I, a couple, a couple of waysquestion, uh, I, uh a couple, a
couple ways, um, I, I think thebiggest one, the biggest one
that comes to mind is, I think,over the past for me, or maybe
I'll be, probably just for mepersonally, I think it's really

(56:01):
narrowing in.
It gets back to what I saidearlier.
It's narrowing in on what isthe right.
Business revenue is the metricof success, right, um, network,
I should say, um, revenue isvanity, profit, sanity, to be
clear, um, so net, net revenueis what matters.

(56:24):
Um, and revenue generatingactivities, like, and really
dialing in on, because thatthat's fuzzy sometimes.
Right, like, what is actuallyrevenue generating, generating,
generating activity, right, isit?
Is it door knocking?

(56:45):
I don't know?
Right is, is it refining that?
Uh, right, the, the automatedemail, um marketing email to go
out at 10, 30 am to right toclick through rate changes,
right, yeah, enough, where, like, the lead volume is what it is
and that that that is revenuegenerating activity, or is that

(57:08):
totally wasted time and you, wereally should just be focusing
on x, y or z, right, so, like,it's in my mind, right, it's, um
, it's really easy to get caughtup in the weeds of stuff that
just doesn't have an impact.
That's so easy.

(57:35):
Um, and I also, to a certainextent, I think that I think of
it in a couple tiers right, theuh, the work?
Right.
The worst tier is to have allthe education and no action.
Right, you can, right, you canhave a PhD in whatever, in
whatever right, multiple phds,but if you never do anything
with it, it doesn't matter,because there's no, there's no
impact, right.
The next step is no educationbut just action.

(57:57):
Right, it's better than right,it's better than no action,
right, um, uh, and the best oneis having education and action.
Right, that's always the best,that's where you thrive.
But what I'm getting at issometimes like, you say it all
the time do something, right,yeah, and you're starting out

(58:19):
like do something, and then youcan go from there, but not
getting caught up in theanalysis, paralysis or whatever.
Have you, I guess, guess, touse your real estate term.
But, right, you don't sit andoveranalyze things too much.
Sometimes I'm guilty of that,I'm super guilty of that.
That's my happy place.
Sometimes, right, so right,like that's anyway that.

(58:40):
That.
That's sort of where I've triedto evolve into like, yeah, work
on what matters and ignore therest of the stuff that might be,
might be fun, might seem likeit's pretty or whatever.
It just doesn't matter, doesn'tmatter, doesn't have an impact
for you.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
How do, how do you determine what matters and what
doesn't matter, though?

Speaker 4 (58:58):
yeah, there's uh, if it, if it changes the kpi, right
.
So like we try, we try a lot ofstuff, um, and some of it
doesn't work and doesn't changethe KPI, and we sit and think,
if we change these three thingsabout it or whatever, if we
actually went through an A-Btest?
At these things.

(59:18):
Would it actually change itenough where it would get the
Kpi to where we need to be?
Right?
So yeah, and so, for instance,we worked with a large lead gen
service company maybe I shouldsay like paper lead um in the
past um to leave names out of itand I tried it.

(59:47):
It was undesirable at the timeand we went back and we thought,
oh, okay, so maybe we did thesethings wrong.
Maybe we treated these leads asif they were Google business
page leads.
Right, we didn't nurture themcorrectly in front to make them
viable in the back.
We thought that was our fault,not to say that it still isn't.

(01:00:08):
Maybe we're misinterpreting it,I don't know.
Yeah, but so we tried it again.
Same result right, so right, inour cpls, for, like that, 1500
options, 1500 cpls are notviable for our business.
Other businesses they mightright.
Um, hey, you understand whereI'm going, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah

(01:00:30):
, trial and error, that's beenthe biggest thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
You just got to throw yourself at it.
Try a bunch of stuff.
We've had stuff that were likeit was a resounding failure.
And then there's been otherstuff we're like all right well
we broke even, or we made alittle bit here this.
maybe if we tweak this one ortwo things and we can improve
that and get it more dialed in,and it really has.
It's just been as you got tothrow yourself at it.
I mean, when we started thisbusiness, the phones don't just

(01:00:56):
start ringing right, zoe and Iwent, oh, we're knocking doors,
and you know what door knockingis.
I give credit Even the peoplethat come and they sell pest,
pest spray for around theperimeter of your property.
I'm friendly with all thosepeople because I'm like, hey,
man, I get it, it's brutal outthere.
And then I ask him if he's gota solicitation permit.
No, no, but you do.

(01:01:22):
You got to throw yourself at ita little bit.
You got to try stuff and seewhat sticks really.
And you know some of it isgoing to be kind of a bust, but
some of it is.
There's some, some gold nuggetsin there.
You know that you will find asyou, as you go in, and I would
say that happens even more sowith time.
We're still trying out stuffand saying, hey, let's, let's

(01:01:43):
talk to these guys, let'sexplore this more.
What about that?
And I guess my thought is isI'm not going to hit a home run
every time, but I'm going totake a lot of swings.
Yeah, you know, that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
So yeah, the more swings you take, the more
opportunity you have.
Right percent man.
I appreciate you guys timetoday.
This has been another episodeof the roofing success podcast.
Thank you for tuning into theroofing success podcast.
For more valuable content,visit roofing Success Podcast.
Thank you for tuning in to theRoofing Success Podcast.

(01:02:15):
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