How He Escaped the “Hope Stage” and Built a Real Roofing Business with Justin Puetz

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do you go from hauling off a torn down shed for
$100 on Craigslist to running agrowing roofing company with a
killer team and real systems inplace?
In this episode, I'm talkingwith Justin Pitts, the founder
of Pitts Construction, aboutwhat it takes to graduate from
self-employed hustler to truebusiness owner.

(00:20):
You'll hear how he went fromwearing every hat, wearing the
tool belt, to building a team,tracking ROI and finally
escaping what he calls the hopestage.
Justin's journey is packed withgrit, risk-taking and real talk
about hiring, pricing andletting go of control.
He's built the company from theground up, starting with a

(00:43):
rusty old.
Built the company from theground up, starting with a rusty
old F-150 and a Craigslist adfeaturing his face.
What sets Justin apart is hishumility hustle and his
obsession with doing the rightthing by his clients and his
team.
Whether you're at six figuresor eight figures, his story is
going to hit home.
In today's episode, we'redigging into the mindset shift

(01:05):
that it takes for you to go fromwinging it to winning with
intention.
You'll learn how to priceconfidently, hire your first
killer teammate and know whenit's time to bet on yourself.
Let's dive in with Justin Pitts.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here tobring you insights from top
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your

(01:28):
roofing business.
Justin Pitts, another Minnesotaboy on the podcast.
How are you, brother?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Minnesota today, right, yeah, yeah, we're looking
at about three or four inchesoutside day, right, yeah yeah,
we're looking at about three orfour inches outside, which don't
love, don't love.
I know that there's always alag on these episodes, but it's
currently in the middle of Marchand so I would love to not have
snow right now.
I'm done.
I'm done with that phase.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
So, yeah, it's time it's time for the winter to be
over.
I feel it too, man.
It's time it's time for thewinter to be over.
I feel it too, man.
Give everyone a kind of anintro of yourself, your company,
when you started what you guysdo, and we'll take it from there
.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, as my wife always says, I have the
gift of gab.
So I will try to make thisbrief.
But I went to college at StCloud State, go Huskies, and
when I was there I actually wasgetting a degree for real estate
, which had a few differentspecifications appraisal,
investment, development,different things like that and
in our time there we actuallyflipped a house when I was in

(02:41):
college and went pretty well.
So we thought let's do it again.
Did it again?
Ended up actually having itsold and flood all in the span
of or not in the span all aboutthree weeks before we were going
to close out and make a littlebit of money again.
That wiped that away andcreated a sense of urgency of

(03:04):
getting this back to what wesold it as.
So we didn't have to lose thesale either.
Needless to say, it was abouttwo straight weeks of 20 hour
days and ultimately, at the end,my wife told me Kyle, you know,
you guys are pretty good atthis.
You should maybe considerstarting your own company.
And you know, again, starting abusiness was always been a

(03:25):
dream of mine.
Um, I had ever since I was akid.
I think I even told my grandmalike someday I'm going to be my
own boss, like, yeah, like it'sgoing to be awesome.
And, sure enough, I didn'trealize how difficult it is, but
, um, it's, uh, uh.
That's what kind of sparked it.
And so, in 2017, we started.
Pitts Construction reallystarted with gigs on Craigslist

(03:50):
if you can believe it or not.
Back when those were free, youcould post your services for
free and I thought it was thesmartest marketing man in the
world.
I put a picture of my face onCraigslist because I thought
every one of these ads soundedlike you're the Craigslist
killer or whatever it is, and Ithought if they could just see
my face and my beautiful smile,they would absolutely love me.

(04:12):
And it worked out well, startedwith really, really small jobs
and slowly graduated into cabinremodels doing some additions,
all by myself, ultimately movedback closer to family in
Southeastern Minnesota and wasstill on the belt for a few
years, and that's probably thefirst five years of the company

(04:36):
and then in the last probablytwo to three years, we've really
graduated is kind of how welook at it.
We've really taken that jump orjump the shark or whatever um
phrase you'd like to use, um,and really turned it from you
know, a job, into a business,into a company, um, and so yeah,
it's, it's been a wild ride,and one that has not been the

(04:57):
conventional.
Oh, I, uh.
I grew up where my dad knewsubcontractors, or I grew up in
a subcontracting company and Ididn't even know what
subcontractors really were.
When I started, I dideverything, I put the, I banged
every nail, I did every trade,which is a mistake, but it was
one where I learned kind ofbackwards.
I, you know, went to YouTubeuniversity, learned a lot of

(05:19):
different stuff and got us towhere we are today, which I
wouldn't trade it for anything.
It's, it's been an awesomeexperience, for sure.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Before we get into more, I want to know the
craziest gig you did onCraigslist.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Oh, I mean I think I've told this story before, but
there's really two that come tomind.
One was my very first one.
That one was to remove a shedthat was torn down, and I
thought it was really odd thatit was torn down not to tear
down a shed and remove it, itwas just to get rid of a shed
that's torn down.
And so I thought, I don't know,maybe the homeowner just felt
like getting squirrely anddecided to tear down their own
shed and now didn't want to dealwith it, their own shed and now

(06:02):
didn't want to deal with it.
Um, and so I get there.
I pull up in my old, my old1996 F one 50 that's rusting out
, but you know, it had an eightfoot, eight foot box on the back
and did the job.
Um, and uh, you know, looked atit, gave him a quote, started
taking it out.
Um, you know, as I'm hearingmore about this guy who, uh, I

(06:22):
learned that, um, they hiredsomebody the day before to
remove it and destroy it.
And as they're pulling out, asI'm starting to pull stuff out,
they're kind of revealing alittle bit more to it.
Um, and things kind of fellapart apparently the day before,
when the guy threatened to suethem, uh, because he scratched
his arm with a nail from theshed or something like that.

(06:43):
And you know, I grew up on afarm.
So to me that's like hilarious,like that I'm just like,
doesn't even cross my mind, likethat is just not the type of
people that we are.
So it's, um, it's funny thatthat was their experience to me,
but it was also really eyeopening in the world of
construction and just hownon-transparent, non-honest or,

(07:06):
you know, dishonest is probablythe right way to say that that's
the farm kidding me coming out.
Um and um, it was just, I saw itas a huge opportunity, um and
so, anyways, as I'm, as I'm,destroying the shed, you know,
they're revealing a little bitmore to me, a little bit more,
and all of a sudden, all this isstarting to add up.
As this guy is just, you know,he showed up on a bicycle, um,

(07:26):
with a claw hammer, um, not theduels of choice that I would
have picked.
Um and uh, as I'm lifting upthe very base of this shed and
I'm getting down to the floor,um, I find about six or seven uh
bottles not bottles, cans ofnatty Light underneath there.
So I just thought it fit theperfect profile of like this is

(07:47):
my competition at that time.
And then you know again, thefarm kid in me says well, we
just used to burn this stuff, soI just took it in the backyard
and burnt it.
The funniest part is I was inthe middle of St Cloud doing
that, so not exactly, notexactly very discreet and not
exactly the probably theappropriate way to handle that I

(08:08):
have learned.
I have learned.
So please, if you're, with theEPA.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
You don't get a permit from the city, Justin.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Don't ask me.
We got to answer thosequestions today, jim.
But and the funniest part is, Idid all of it for a hundred
bucks.
I just I laugh at.
But back then, man, an extrahundred bucks in my pocket, that
was amazing.
And I just did it all by myself.
You know not that that wasn'tlike a huge thing I mean, I've
always been pretty independentbut it was still a proof of

(08:36):
concept.
It was uh, this is, this canwork, we can do this.
You know need to figure out alot of stuff, but that was super
eye-opening in a lot ofdifferent levels, but that's
always my favorite one and itjust so happened to be my first
one on Craigslist, but it was agreat place to find work.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
It's a cool point in time when you realize someone
will exchange money for what youdo for them.
I think that's a good lesson tolearn there and, like, a lot of
a lot of people you know maybeare far beyond that now and it's
like, man, I don't even thinkabout that anymore, but there
was a time, there was a time inyour, in your business, where

(09:20):
you were like, well, someoneactually pay me for this.
Like there was a time and andthat's a, you know, and then and
then.
So we were talking about someother things last week and we
were talking about the podcastand you know some of the great
guests that I have on and you've, you know you've been listening
for a while and um, and a lotof times I'll have these.
You know which I do.

(09:41):
I have a lot of reallysuccessful contractors on and
they're in that, you know, high,seven figure, eight figure, you
know, and and up like a,there's a couple of nine figure
people that have been on theshow right Like where they're
doing nine figures of of grossrevenue.
So cool, yeah, but there's athere's a gap between a lot of

(10:03):
those conversations and the kidthat broke that shed down and
took that shed away.
It's almost unimaginable.
At that point in time you hadmentioned that it's been about
two years since you were like,oh, this is a business.

(10:25):
Now You've went fromself-employment to business
ownership is the way I like toput it right.
So you're self-employed, you'rejust making a living, and then
you go oh wait, this issomething, this could be
something else.
And then there's the big.
So you've had a couple of yearsof that now, and what we talked
about is I think you mentionedit you said I've moved out of

(10:48):
the hope stage, and I thoughtthat was a powerful statement.
And that's what I want to talkabout to start off today is what
were some of the things thathelped you move out of that
self-employment and then,through the I hope I can do this
.
And now you're like oh, this isa real business.

(11:08):
A couple of years after, Forsure.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Well, and yeah, I first I just want to say thank
you for doing such an amazingjob with your podcast.
It is truly man.
If anybody is listening to thiswhich is probably just going to
be my mom just kidding man ifanybody is listening to this
which is probably just going tobe my mom Just kidding she is
not listening to this podcast.
But if you are watching and youare gaining any value from any

(11:33):
of Jim's stuff, even if there'snothing of value today, leave a
review.
I'm huge on Google reviews forour business, which, if you'd
like to leave us one, it's PittsConstruction LLC.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
We'll put it in the description.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Charles Minestodo.
We're always looking foramazing five-star reviews, but
nonetheless, I just wanted tosay thank you, jim, because,
truly, the content you put outit has changed how I've looked
at this business and I thinkit's shown itself in just the
leap that we've made these lastcouple of years.
But ultimately, to answer yourquestion, yeah, we went from a

(12:02):
position that I always look backon it now and I think we just
hope things worked.
We hope that we made the rightdecision, we hope that we're
doing we're reading the rightbooks, we're listening to the
right podcasts.
We hope this.
We hope that without any sortof strategy or, you know, really

(12:24):
thought behind it.
And it's a scary place to bebecause you maybe really want to
move forward and move up and doall of these cool things, but
you have no idea if you're doingthe right stuff.
And so on the last, these lasttwo years, it's kind of kind of
what I talked about recently,which is it feels really like
proof of concept that stuff isstarting to get traction, that

(12:47):
we're not just hoping that if wespend money on this marketing,
that it works.
No, no, no, no, we're measuringit, we are clocking it, we are
making sure that it earns itsspot here, right?
Anybody on our team, myselfincluded, has to earn their way
here and earn their spot to stayhere.

(13:08):
We're a small company.
We are on the brink.
We don't have the ability tojust say, well, don't worry If
you're not the best at what youdo or not.
A killer is kind of how wethat's a term we use in our
business that you got to be akiller.
It's that level, and so there'sno room for anybody to do
anything less than that.
And that's just the frayed.

(13:28):
The stage that we are at, whichis such a fun stage to be at.
And again, that's kind of whatwe talked about, which is how do
you get out of that hope stage?
How do you, how do you jump theshark?
Um, and to me it's it's onewhere listening to podcasts like
this if you're already doingthat you're, you're already on

(13:50):
the right track, because it wasone of the pivotal things that
for me was was just listening toguys in the industry.
And again, like we talked, theymaybe are at that five, eight,
$10 million a year.
Um, to give some perspective toanybody listening, last year we
did about 1.5, 1.6 million.
So we are a small company.

(14:10):
The biggest fears that I hadgetting to here was it really
came down to.
Really, I never felt bad aboutbuying equipment as long as I
could afford it, but it reallythe getting out of that hope
stage was bringing on the rightpeople.
And that's a huge risk, but itallows, it has allowed me to

(14:31):
free up so much of my time.
And the joke I had just withthe guys this morning was Ray,
when you're early, you think Imean, if I hire Eric and Eric
handles the supplementing andall that, well, what am I going
to do?
Like, I can promise you, if youare even remotely good at
business, there are a thousandthings to do.

(14:53):
There is no shortage of work ifyou are even half as good at
owning a business as anybodyelse, right?
So to me, getting out of thathope stage and taking the leap,
um, you know, uh, for us it wassaving up just enough money.
Um, in this position of justgiving us a parachute right,

(15:14):
giving us somewhat of a leash of, hey, it doesn't have to work
right away, it can be a, let'sjust make sure we're moving it
down, the're moving the balldown the field.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
What did you do there ?
Did you think of it in terms oflike okay, I'm going to hire
someone who was the first personyou hired Sales production?
Which way did you go there?

Speaker 2 (15:41):
For sure.
So in the years that I waswearing the belt, the first
people I hired were alsoproduction guys, so I was
wearing every hat and the firstthing I kind of thought was I
someday need to get this beltoff.
Like, if we're going to grow,there's not a single
construction company that'sdoing.
I think I even said at the timemaybe like a million dollars I
didn't even have a big numberback then.
Um, and again, that was supercool for us to cross a million,
so it's cool to feel that amillion is not very big anymore,

(16:03):
um, which is a miniaturemilestone.
Um, but those are greatmilestones, man.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Everyone has to cross them.
It's like they're yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Well, and and the.
The thought process I had rightand maybe others are listening
and think the same way was oh mygosh, I'm going to hire
somebody at, I don't know.
Let's just say back then it wasmaybe 40,000 a year.
They didn't have experience, itwas 20 bucks an hour, and so
the initial thought that I haveis oh my gosh, I'm about to

(16:37):
throw $40,000 away, like, oh mygosh.
And it's such a trap, a mentaltrap, because what you're not
thinking of is the work thatthey're going to produce.
That is going to, number one,free up your time, but also that
is going to advance the company, the team, the mentality and

(16:57):
everything you can do.
You now can do projects faster.
You can do them for a bettermargin because you've got the
time to be able to make surethat you've got the processes in
place.
You can do them for a bettermargin because you've got the
time to be able to make surethat you've got the processes in
place.
You can increase yourefficiency.
You can do all of these thingswith the right people in the
right seats, and so it is onewhere yeah, I will even catch
myself thinking that where itmay feel like it is just money

(17:21):
out the door.
And that's where that littlebit of a safety net really
helped these last couple ofyears of building up some funds
to bring on guys that are notdirectly related to revenue,
whether that's production orsales.
Those are very easy in my headbecause they're going to produce
something or they're going tosell something Pretty
straightforward.

(17:42):
It's those ones that in ourcurrent stage that are hard,
which is for us.
That's Eric.
So Eric does an amazing job.
It's I laugh how good he is.
And it's kind of the definitionof hiring those killers, like
making sure that you're gettingpeople who are just phenomenal
at what they do.
And for a fun fact um, eric hadzero experience in the

(18:02):
construction industry.
It was a zero knowledge of.
I had to teach and train himeverything, um, and he has just
taken it up and ran with it.
And that's where it comes downto when you are ready to take
that lead.
It's finding the right person,Um, and and just continuously
find that right person.

(18:22):
It's to me it's a huge peoplething more than anything else,
and through that with thesepeople, we've realized we
probably shouldn't havedocumented processes and systems
in place and things like that,and that's a whole different can
of worms.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
So now that becomes the next thing, right, like
there's always the next problemto solve, how many like?
I think I've had theconversation, just to go back a
little bit.
I've had that conversation alot of times and in our minds we
look at the annual salary ofthat person.
We go, man, whoo, right, I mean, you start getting into higher

(18:59):
level positions.
You're talking, you know, like,ooh, can I really, can I really
do this?
I had a mentor, um who at onetime who said, look, if you can
hire that person, you got tothink about it monthly.
So I'll make my math eveneasier.
You said 40 grand, I'll.

(19:19):
I'll say 60 to make my matheasier and just call it 5,000 a
month.
Then, if that person can takethings off of your plate, that
lets you.
I think that an owner sits in asales role a little bit longer
in the beginning.
I don't know if that's whereyou sat, but if that person

(19:40):
allows you to get enough timeinto your schedule that you can
then go and produce anadditional $5,000 a month in
profit, right, yep, hire themtoday, like that was the thing.
But I like, for people that getuncomfortable or are less, you

(20:03):
know, more risk adverse, right,I like your idea of, like you
know, I wanted to put some moneyaway.
How did you?
Did you put like three monthssalary, did you say?
Did you just stick a number inthe bank and say, okay, this is
our cushion?
How did you go about that?

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, it was a little bit also of, I mean, started.
Uh, one of our biggest boomswas we actually had a storm down
here and we I again I laugh Ihad no idea about this podcast.
I had no idea aboutsubcontractors.
I was like we're coming up onabout three years ago so the

(20:40):
windows closed.
I know, no, no, we cannot workit anymore.
But, um, we were just gettingcalls left and right about it
Hail damage.
I'm just thinking like what,like you?
Just like sure, I remember Iwas just giving prices out, I
wasn't even doing it for whatthe insurance said hey, we'll
give you more, justin.
No, no, no, no, no, you keepthat.
Mr Mrs Insurance adjuster, Idon't need it.

(21:01):
I'm a small little hometowntruck.
In the truck contractor, they alot of jail Right.
So, um, just kidding, I'venever been to jail.
But um, um, you know, and sowith that we kind of had this
influx of work and and all of asudden I'm very rapidly figuring
out, oh, you mean to tell me Ithink I had someone send me

(21:23):
their insurance stuff.
I didn't even ask for it.
And I'm like, and we were sobusy at the time, I'm like you
know what To do this job I amgoing to.
I'm going to say that thatnumber, that number, there it is
.
And again I thought to myselfthere's no way they're going to
accept that Like that's.
That is way I.
And again we were at a stage inthe company where I did not
understand white glove service.
I did not understand wecouldn't charge those prices, we

(21:47):
were not worth it.
Yet we were way too sloppy, waytoo unorganized or disorganized
.
And as much as I know that wedid a great job on the product,
the experience from a client'sperspective maybe didn't go as
smoothly.
Experience from a client'sperspective maybe didn't go as

(22:07):
smoothly, but because Igenerally was pretty charismatic
and always made sure thatpeople were happy at the end we
never had a bad reputation byany means, it was just one that
I didn't feel like.
We were quite at the stage tocharge those prices.
And so all of a sudden we'rerealizing, well, if we start
charging properly, sudden we'rerealizing, well, you know, if we
start charging properly, we canpay for these better

(22:29):
experiences and we can bring onthe right guys, we can buy the
right tools.
We can.
You know you're going again.
That's that stage of what theprice was before was a price
that would work for.
If it was just a job for me,there was no growing the company
on that, and so we ended uphaving this influx of insurance
all of a sudden, and again it'sjust me wearing all the hats.

(22:49):
So the return on that lagged alot, and as much as I would have
loved to have that nop in thecase, that's just the way it was
.
And so all of a sudden, though,as we're getting all of this
done, as we're finally gettingpaid and all these things, you
know, we probably had about ayear's worth of salary saved up,
um, for this position.

(23:10):
Um, now again, I'm a big fan ofpositions that have a direct
influence on how the businessworks right.
So, for example, salesmen arecommission based because I want
them to succeed as the businesssucceeds right.
Like a salaried sales positiondoes not make sense to me.
I get that.
Some people have it structuredthat way and that's great for
them.
I love it when it's a hey, yoursuccess is our success.

(23:34):
It is not me or you, one or theother, it is both only.
And so in this position,particularly for an admin person
, I always like to somehowencourage either a bonus
structure based on Googlereviews or a percentage of
overall revenue, right, like so.
As the business grows, so doesyour compensation if you're on

(23:58):
that particular position.
Right, it's not for everybody,you know, you're not going to
maybe have an office manager onthat level, but it is one where
when you're having a directinput on the company.
So for me it was just, it wasall of a sudden kind of having
an influx flow in um and andsurviving all of those tidal

(24:18):
waves of, you know, going up anddown in business and all of a
sudden finding myself with Ithink it was probably about 50
grand saved up on the side, um,and it was enough to again get
started with a structure thatwas commission based as well.
So it wasn't solely that in allamount, but it was one where I

(24:41):
was like, hey, I have this savedup and it was one cause.
It's a risk on their end too,what you're forgetting when
you're at my stages.
They are risking just as much asyou are.
Like you can't forget and youcan't take for granted what the
people are that are joining youand your mission and your vision
, and I again, I kind of don'tlike those words, but whatever

(25:06):
it's, you get the point Um, ifthey're doing that, they're also
taking a risk, so you need tomake sure that you're protecting
them.
I take it very seriously whensomeone stops their life to
change careers and join us, andwe've just had it twice, now
three times, where we've hadjust killers coming through the
door and it is starting to seethat snowball effect, that
domino effect of this one, nowthis one and in the last year,

(25:29):
like I said, we've got threeguys that are just going to be
absolutely rock stars, one ofthem starting this summer.
That is again I would havenever dreamed of.
It's the first project manager,that's the first person we're
handing project management off,and I'm so excited to get that
off of my plate because, my gosh, I just need somebody to
dedicate themselves to makingsure that inspections are done

(25:50):
on time, that material is comingwhen it needs to.
It's so simple, but at the sametime, the right person there
makes or breaks the experiencefor a client.
It's crazy, it is crazy, and so,anyways, that's again.
I get long-winded.
You cut me off on that.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
No, that's all right.
You made a comment aboutpricing and I think this is a
lesson that a lot of times youhave to learn.
When you're self-employed, Ifeel like, a lot of times, when
it's more just you, you'rewearing the tool belt, you
almost feel like you're rippingsomeone off.
If you price the job properly,I'm going to say properly, I

(26:32):
feel like a lot of people,smaller contractors, they'll
feel that way, um, and and eveneven as you, as, as as
contractors that get intomultiple millions of dollars in
revenue, they look at, you know,uh, an able roof, mr roof.
They'll look at a de bella,they'll look at a.
You know, like some of thesereally big companies that are

(26:54):
selling at a thousand twelvehundred square and go, they're
just ripping people off, butthey're, but they're, they're.
Their bottom line is not muchdifferent, yeah, but they're
employing a lot more people,they're, they're contributing a
lot more in marketing dollars,they, they, they have more

(27:17):
vehicles.
It's amazing when you get thataha moment of oh, that's how
they pay for all this stuff.
Oh, yeah, was it dealing withthe insurance claims and seeing
that gap that made you realizeit.
Was it a specific job whereyou're like, man, if I just

(27:39):
price this a little better.
If I had $500 more in this job,someone could do help me out
with it.
Or like what was the?
What was the aha moment for youaround pricing.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Yeah, I, I actually I do think it was as a result of
those insurance claims, um, andit was also partly at that same
exact time we started to um.
But just me as a human has wenton in the last two years of you

(28:22):
know, going, you know, to againlistening to podcasts, just
like this Um, um.
We love hook agency up inMinneapolis and so getting
getting into um a network withum, jack and um, or Jack and Tim
and um Skylar and all thoseguys up there, and they just do

(28:43):
such a phenomenal job ofbringing other people together.
You know, I remember it was anearly event there.
I also got to know I think itwas a separate event, but we got
to know John Cenac and ChrisZimmerman, and if you're in the
roofing space and you don't knowthese names, look them up,
research them.
Right, these guys are, they doan amazing job, um, and so it's

(29:06):
one where, all of a sudden, nowyou're in the room with guys who
do know how to price stuffproperly and they understand why
that matters, and a lot of itis.
You care an immense amount or aton about your team.
You want them to be successful.
Who wouldn't, right?
You also care about thecommunity that you're in.

(29:28):
I love donating, I love givingback.
It's like one of my favoritethings to do.
I love like buying dinner forthe team.
Like.
To me, generosity is just likesuch a gift.
That's like a blessing.
Like if, if you are blessed inthat area to do that and I and
you're not doing that, I justthink you're missing out on such
an incredible opportunity tojust.

(29:52):
It's a weird way to think, butto serve people with your gifts
and then almost like in abackwards way, but it's it's one
, but it's one where, when westarted seeing those insurance
ones come through and we startedto figure out, oh okay, they
give them this estimate, likewow, we would have done this for
like $7,000 less last year, butagain, we were pricing it out

(30:16):
because we were just coveringthe cost.
That was it.
The business was making nomoney, it was just me, it was
whatever I was making, and so itreally opened the door and, as
a result, by learning more aboutthe insurance world, it opened
the door to so many other guysand now we still do a lot of

(30:37):
insurance work.
However, we have really beenfocusing our systems on retail,
just because we want to makesure that we keep that
consistency there.
And then our icing on the cakeis when we get storms nearby.
We're not the company that'sgoing to drive eight hours away
to a storm licensed in wisconsinand iowa, but usually try to

(30:58):
keep everything, especiallystorm related to, within about a
hundred mile radius.
It's um that reaches the twincities, that reaches um mancato
rochester, obviously lacrosse,all of those bigger cities.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
For us, and you know, being a smaller team, that's
perfect people that don't knowminnesota those bigger cities
are like 50 000 people that's agood point that's a good point
right just for context, rightit's not.
You know we're not talkingabout you.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I should preface I grew up on a farm.
My town it's not even a town, Ithink it's actually classified
as a village was 289 people.
Yeah, you to comeica minnesotathrow it up, we it's the?
U, so um, but uh, yeah, itlegit.
Um, yeah it.
Uh, it was pretty funny.
It's 289 people, but it alsohad three bars, so I thought the

(31:48):
per capita was really in yourfavor.
If you like to drink, uh, yeah,you know it's, it's a good
ratio um, sounds very, soundsvery.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Minnesota yeah, the town, the town I grew up in or
part of my life in northernMinnesota was 1,900 people, 11
bars.
So similar ratio, right.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
There you go.
They got to say no About 1 to100.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
About 1 to 100 ratio for bars to the people.
Yeah, big shame Now that you'vegotten to higher.
Okay, so you had the ahamoments.
Wow, we could price this out.
I think these are the thingsthat get you over that hope
stage, right, like you're likeoh wait, get now I.
I understand that.

(32:29):
I understand.
I need to hire people.
It sounds like you had maybesome luck in some of the first
couple.
Did you have any any go wrongand what lessons did you learn
there?
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Um, had it on both sides.
So, um, we've definitely.
I would say early on, when I,when I felt like my wheels were
just spinning, I was stillwearing the belt Um, I was
actually in St Cloud at the time.
So this is in the first coupleyears of business, I, you know,
we started doing some remodelsthat were way bigger than what I

(33:07):
could handle, so it was okay.
Well, we need to hire people,that obviously.
That's easy, not a problem atall.
And you know, only place Ireally knew was Craigslist.
So, just like I was trying tolaugh and I poke fun at all the
other contractors that I sawback in the day, Did the guy on
the bike apply?

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Is that who applied?

Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, he didn't apply to me, thank goodness, but I did
have a guy.
Oh man, let's see, I had oneguy show up.
Oh man, let's see, I had oneguy show up.
Um, I don't know if it wasdrugs or alcohol, but was I
honestly think it might've beendrugs, cause he was almost it
was probably both, yeah, showedup to a job site where the
homeowner was at.

(33:50):
So homeowners calling me likecrazy.
Like you know, I Brent was hisname, if I remember right, and
it was Brent's here, you know,doing this, doing this, doing
this, and I'm like um, okay, andthey ended up taking him to the
police station and I never sawhim ever again and never, never
heard from him.
I technically owed him money,like for at least a little bit

(34:10):
of the work that he kind of didand in theory, um didn't finish
it.
So I don't feel like terriblybad about it, but it was also
very, very cheap.
So it's also one of those wherekind of figure that out, um, uh
, you know we had other guyswhere they just wouldn't show up
all the time.
Um, that inconsistency I canabsolutely relate with Um.
It was a really unfortunate umscenario kind of thing where

(34:34):
it's just felt like you werejust turning and burning and you
realize these are still peopleat the end of the day.
But it very, very quicklyfigured out how difficult it is
to find guys and girls who areon the same playing field as you
.
In a sense, right, it's notthat you need to be super

(34:55):
experienced or have all of theseyears in the trades or in the
sales or in anything right.
It's, for me, the biggestlesson I learned in hiring is
hiring character far outweighshiring skill.
Even in the last couple ofyears we've had guys who came to
us with 20, 25 years experiencein the trades and you can ask

(35:20):
them.
I can promise you, you can askthem as many times as you want.
I did this where it was well,hey, I mean I'm 32.
I am generally young to berunning anything across most
trades.
It's generally a very olderdemographic usually, and I
remember asking, hey, like, isit going to be an issue taking

(35:42):
orders, in a sense, from someonewho's about 20 years younger
than you?
Is that going to be a problem?
Are we going to have, oh no,nope, not a problem at all, no
issues there?
And what do you think happens?
A problem happens and itbecomes all of a sudden a very
big um lack of a better termdick measuring contest, kind of

(36:08):
thing.
Um, and so it.
It uh, ultimately is one whereyou know at that time we were
hiring for skill, we needed guyswho knew what they were doing.
Um, and even though that'sthat's awesome when you can find
it, they feel like more of aunicorn.
If you can find the guy thathas the skill and has the
character that you're lookingfor, that you're trying to build
your company around, I thinkit's a lot more attainable to

(36:32):
find the people that line upwith your character.
They're on that same playingfield with you.
You know, and again the exampleis these last few hires that
we've had where it really reallyfeels like you know, some maybe
have some experience, but it'sbeen a little bit for them, but
most are simply the right typeof person.

(36:53):
And then it's on us in my headto, hey, okay, let's get you
trained up, like here's where Isee your characteristics, or the
, the um, the character that youare right, the personality that
you have.
I think you're going to begreat at X or Z or whatever Um
it's.
It's one, though, that it'sincredibly difficult to take the

(37:14):
person with the skillset andjust say, hey, I need you to be
more transparent or I need youto be more honest, I need you to
work harder, I need you to doall of these things that are
much more character flaws, Ineed you to fix those than it is
to say, well, I can teach youhow to do all this stuff.
It's such a trap and it's onethat I think a lot of younger

(37:36):
guys, not even younger early,it's just early, it doesn't
matter but what age you are, ifyou're early in business, you
just think you need anybody todo it, and I can promise you
that's just not the right way,um, and it also is one that it
the the, I think, um.
Two of the three came fromunconventional sources.
So one was, you know, it wasjust a little bit of networking

(37:59):
Um, and they actually workedwith us for the summer, um, just
as like a part-time job, um,and made a little extra money,
but I was so impressed with him,I gave him like a bonus at the
end of the year.
We're hiring for thesepositions, like.
It came truly much more throughour network of like I didn't

(38:25):
even think it wasn't even on myradar, um, that it was just
going to be a, an absolute,amazing rockstar on our team, um
, and so it's just one where Ithink that you should lean on
your network far more than youthink.
And if you, if you don't have abig network well, that's how you
learn to network Then you startasking for other people's
networks.
You start asking forintroductions.
You start like, um, right nowI'm actually reading a book on
that Never eat alone.

(38:45):
Uh, it's really good onnetworking.
Um, depending on where you are,you know it's not.
I will say it's not a book foreverybody, it's not one that if.
If you're just starting out,there's probably other books
that I would recommend, but forthose that are really looking to
advance in that networkingspace, it is a.
It's a very, very good book.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
So when you, when you start the hiring process, I
think everyone sucks at it,right.
I I've said this a few timesrecently I don't know, I, I know
, I don't know if I know anentrepreneur that has come from
HR, I just don't.
It's not a skillset that a lotof small business owners or

(39:26):
people who start businesses have, right, and we think of HR as
like the policy of humanresources.
But really the part of HR inlarge companies is recruiting.
Like I have neighbors, peoplein my neighborhood, one works
for Target, one works for Medica, like Medica, however, you say
that, but they developrecruiting systems and all like

(39:49):
they do recruiting, executiverecruiting and like all kinds of
stuff, like it's an actual,like this is an actual thing in
a real business, right, therecruiting aspect of it.
And I think it's a skillsetthat we've that we all have to
hone in on.
And first you hire for a needright and then you hire for a
role and someone to takeownership and responsibility.

(40:11):
That's kind of the path that Isee.
Right, like you start off,you're like, like you said, I
need someone to, I need someoneto help me with this, I need a
skill set, so I'm going to gofind someone that has a tool
belt and knows how to work rightso they can help me with this.
But then, as you develop yourskill set, it's like, oh, I need

(40:32):
someone with this skill set.
And now you develop job rolesand go through the hiring
process.
I think you said, was it howare you?
How are you?
What have you put in place?
I think in our pastconversation we talked about
this.
You put something like a moreof a structured hiring process
in place.
Describe that now.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Yeah for sure.
So originally, yeah, it was I'mtalking a Craigslist ad.
That was what we started with,and I'm talking seven years ago,
six years ago.
So that was, you know, 2018,2019.
That was it.
If you had a warm pulse, you'regood Like that was the.
You know, can you fog up amirror?

(41:12):
You're hired, perfect.
You know, this last hiring round, we made it very intentional.
We started with actuallycreating the job descriptions
and I'm a huge fan of technology, so we used actually chat GPT
to help us create the jobdescription, just said, hey,
create a job description for aproject manager for pits

(41:34):
construction in southeasternMinnesota based on, you know,
gave it.
We always try to give it asmany parameters as we can
possibly think of and let themfill in all the holes.
Right, um worked incrediblywell.
That would.
That saved a boatload of time.
Um, you know, we implementedour core values.
We run on EOS, so we've got umgrow or die, extreme ownership

(41:55):
and whatever it takes, thosethree things.
If you don't embody those threethings and we put it right on
our job description it'sprobably just best if you don't
apply Now.
That doesn't stop anybody fromapplying.
I can promise you that it's soeasy to apply.
Nowadays, people just click,move on to the next, click, move
on to the next.
It's a lot different.
So we started, though, withcreating really well thought out

(42:17):
job descriptions.
The only thing I would probablymake a little different this
time around after going throughit, is I maybe would condense
them a little bit.
I think we got a little bit longin the tooth on them personally
, and again, it's just becauseyou know, we know the statistics
.
When people go on there,generally they're going on their
mobile device.
Their phone is almost alwaysthe case.
They're also applying to fourto five jobs every time they log

(42:39):
in.
They're also applying to fourto five jobs every time they log
in.
So it's a little egotistical ofme personally to think, oh,
they're going to stop and readeverything about this Like as
much as I personally would lovethat, I think.
I think the realization I hadthis last time around was we
might be missing out on greatpeople just because the culture
has kind of driven that.
Not that they're necessarilythe wrong type of person, but

(43:02):
it's so easy to do these thingsthat that's just somewhat
generally expected.
So we're slightly tweaking this, but started that we didn't pay
to promote it.
That was a big difference.
I will say, if you can affordto pay to promote it on Indeed
or ZipRecruiter, either of thetwo, it does help an immense
amount of getting thoseapplicants through.

(43:23):
Don't expect much, again,because it's so easy to apply.
You know, we were hoping, if wegot 100 applicants, that maybe
three of them would be solid iskind of what we thought.
Again, that sounds terrible,but it is true.
It's just the truth, at leastin our area.
Right, that's our experience.
Everywhere else is different.
And then our first process waswe just had a phone call with

(43:47):
them, took about five to 10minutes, and then we actually
had them send us a video and thevideo included I think it was
about three to five questions,essentially just getting to know
them, right, because if you'relike me, someone applies to your
job what do you instantly do?
You go to Facebook, you quicklysearch their name.
Is this a real person?
Do they look normal?

(44:08):
Are they competent, are theyblasting all of their beliefs
all over their Facebook andstuff?
And that's fine.
But that's not necessarily thecharacter of the person that we
maybe are looking for for aspecific position, and so it it.
It saves us a ton of time ofdoing the research that we want
to.
On our head on one end, on theon the other end.

(44:30):
It gives them such a small hoopto jump through that it so
quickly eliminates anybody who'snot truly interested.
Eliminates anybody who's nottruly interested.
But with that the caveat I hadis this last time we did try to
include that in the jobdescription because the thought
process was oh, if they're adetail oriented, if they're

(44:54):
really interested in this, theywill read this and they will
send it to us.
Didn't work, I would love to sayit did, and I would love to say
that that strategy made sense.
But again, right going back togetting out of that hope phase,
we're doing all of thesedifferent moves strategically,
with an eye on the results.
So we're kind of realizing okay, when we're hiring, I think a
phone call has to happen and itjust makes your company real,

(45:17):
makes you a real person,no-transcript, whether that's

(45:45):
virtual or in person.
The next step in that kind ofprocess was just to do a Zoom
call, 20 minutes, super easy.
Our hope was hey, we're nottrying to inconvenience you, in
all honesty, we're not trying totake our own time up.
We already did that before andit takes a ton of time up to do
this interviewing process.
And so we thought, if we're ableto do it a little bit more

(46:07):
intentional, that by the time wemet that person in person at
our local coffee shop.
Because I don't know if you cantell, I'm in my basement today
because my business runs out ofthe back of my house and my kids
are home from school becauseit's a snow day.
I don't know if you can tell,I'm in my basement today because
my business runs out of theback of my house and my kids are
home from school because it's asnow day.
I don't need to get on mysoapbox, but we're working on
changing that and getting a shopdoing all that fun stuff.

(46:28):
But it is one where it's alsomeans like, hey, where do we
meet people?
We meet them at our localcoffee shop.
I buy coffee for them.
So it's on us like just as athank you for driving out here,
being that we are in a smalltown.
The town that we are in is about4,000 people.
Between about 30 minutes awaywe've got a town of 125,000 and
another town of maybe 40,000,lots of rural towns in between.

(46:50):
So we kind of know that to drawpeople out of those areas, we
want to make sure that it'sworth their time.
They're being very, veryheavily considered and also it's
a hey.
The least we can do is buy youa three or $4 cup of coffee.
So that's ultimately theprocess and it has worked out
very well.
It has made us avoid all ofthose headaches and I can

(47:15):
promise you it may cost money tohire somebody and it may cost
money and time to bring on theright person, but what costs far
more time and far more money ishiring the wrong person, and
I'm a testament to that onmultiple occasions.
The amount of errors andmistakes that I personally have

(47:41):
had to go back and fix fromhiring the wrong people, I can
tell you.
Do not rush that part.
Make sure that whoever you'refinding is a killer.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
And every.
You know we have to giveourselves some grace in this
process because I've said itmany times on the podcast, one
of my favorite quotes but hiringis guessing.
Times on the podcast, one of myfavorite quotes.
But hiring is guessing right.
Firing is knowing, hiring isguessing.

(48:08):
We're just making the besteducated guess that we can.
You mentioned that youimplemented EOS.
How long has it been sinceyou've gotten EOS implemented in
your business?

Speaker 2 (48:17):
We are under a year actually.
So, yeah, and it's, and it'sbecause, in all honesty, our the
size of our company is barelybig enough to make it work Like
it, just to be honest.
And they're they're upfrontabout that, you know.
They they talk about leadershipteam, they talk about all of
that, which I really appreciated.

(48:37):
I kind of pulled the triggerearly on it, but I'm also.
I'll usually think about adecision for a little while and
then it's boom, let's go, let'smake a move.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Whether it's right or wrong, we can determine that
later, but yeah, that makes methink, because a lot of people I
talk to are like I think myteam's too small for such a
structured meeting rhythm andall this stuff.
Like, do we really like?
And I think, yeah, but thereare certain things out of EOS
that to me, like from my side,like my implementation and my

(49:10):
businesses, like man, even ifyou're a really small team, you
could take certain things thatreally still work well at your
size.
What have the most impactfulexercises or things that you've
implemented in EOS been for youguys?
For?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
sure, and that's where we, when I give that kind
of that asterisk of we may notbe the biggest time, it's simply
because we sometimes bend therules on it a little bit, and
it's just because there's two ofus in our leadership meetings.
So when one of us is gone, theL10 does not happen, which,
according to EOS, is not how itgoes.

(49:49):
It still happens, and I ain'tdoing it by myself, so, um, but
uh, and so I would say theoverarching theme of EOS is to
stop working in the business andstart working on the business.
It seems like every part,everything that it instills, is
to hit the pause button on thechaos and to make sure that what

(50:11):
you're building is actuallysustainable and that you're
actually building something.
You're not just spinning yourwheels, you're not going in
circles, you're not just pullingyour hair out, which is pretty
easy for me.
But it is one where I would sayjust the weekly hour and a half
L10 meeting that we do whenwe're able to, which is, I would

(50:33):
say, 80% of the time 85.
There's just random weeks wherewe're just swamped and we can't
do it and we just both say toeach other and so this is Eric,
who's my number two.
He would be my um integratorintegrator integrator integrator
and implementer mixed up allthe time.
So integrator and again I hatewhat that I'm considered the

(50:53):
visionary.
I just hate that word.
It's so stupid to me, butwhatever it, it is what it is.
It is true, all of thecharacteristics that they list
off in the book Rocket Fuel is100% me.
I got bored.
Reading through the integratorchapters I was like boring, no
one cares, move on.

(51:16):
But taking time, and we bothjust kind of look at each other
and we just make sure, hey, lookdeeply into each other's eyes,
we say um, um, uh, just hey,this is our time to just just
not worry about day to day.
The guys will be fine for anhour and a half what is one of
the headaches that we need towork on right now?
And then we start guessing itright, we identify, discuss and
solve, and so sometimes that'sone problem for that hour and a
half.
Other times we get through morethan that.

(51:36):
But it has resulted in so muchgrowth on our end, both
professionally and justpersonally, just to say, hey,
this is important.
It is important to take thetime to structure this business
and it's also important, ascrazy as it is I look at when I
bring people on.

(51:57):
I look at it slightly like amarriage, because my wife will
be the first one to tell you Ilove to work.
It is, it is like my favoritething to do.
It is, it is a passion of mineand I just I feel like I'm
playing a game of I don't knowchess or risk or whatever
strategy game you want to putout there, but it's an infinite
game with no, no finish line,which to some people sounds

(52:19):
terrible, but to me is, oh, itsounds so incredible and so it's
, in a sense, it's taking timeto not let the chaos rule your
life, but instead letting youdictate hey, here are the things
that we need to focus onimmediately and we need to get
right for the longevity of thebusiness.

(52:40):
And then, on top of that, theyou know, delegate and elevate.
I don't maybe I don't need toeven call it out in my head, but
I can 100% promise you that wehave done that.
I've done it with Eric, I'veeven said perfect.
This is something we candelegate when we're bringing on
our first project manager thissummer and again, you're talking
to a guy who 18 months ago heck, 12 months ago I wore every hat

(53:04):
, every hat in this company andsales production to invoicing,
which, again, I don't suggestdoing it all, but it is
sometimes a necessary step andit also makes you appreciate
every other part of this.
It helps me make sure, hey, hereis what this project manager
should be doing, because here'swhat I did well and here's what

(53:26):
I always wish I could have donewell.
And if a person's owning thatrole and again kind of goes back
to EOS on that, it's.
Just dedicating people tospecific roles is also one of
those things that I've I've I'vereally really enjoyed
implementing it.
John click is our implementer,so he's just a little shout out

(53:47):
to him, but it's.
It is one where just takingthat time has been immensely
valuable and I think we've seenit Right.
We've seen the growth as aresult of it.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
So yeah, there's that .
There's that old quote what youfocus on expands, right.
So if you just take that hour,hour and a half every week,
focus on the things that the,the things that you can fix
right, like, is this a bigproblem, a small problem?
Is it something we could fix ina week, or is this going to

(54:18):
take three months to fix?
Is this going to take a year tofix?
What are we but?
But it gives you to me, that'swhat some of the most impactful
things were, for us too, wasthat, like, clarity in the next
right thing to do, clarity inthe next right step.
Like, ooh, this is the problemthat we should work on next.

(54:39):
Yeah, because there always willbe a problem.
There will always be anotherproblem.
There's no like it's.
That's the only thing that istrue in this.
And then, for people who haven'tdone the exercise, type, just
Google, eos, delegate andelevate, and it's really just a

(55:01):
way for you to gain someself-awareness about the things
that you do on a day to daybasis and if you like them and
are good at them, or if you hatethem and you suck at them, and
and and in between that rangeright.
So you really see it reallyhelps to paint a picture for you
of man, I'm really good at thisstuff, like I'm going to

(55:25):
continue doing this because I Ienjoy it and I'm good at it, but
here are things that I don'tenjoy I'm still okay at, like I
could get them done.
Now it gives you that what Ikind of heard you say.
It gives you the next who Likeoh, this is the role that we

(55:46):
need.
Next, we need these tasks tostart being completed by someone
else other than me or otherthan your, you know, someone on
the team, because it will bemuch better if they, if you find
that person that that that'stheir sweet spot right, they
love it and they're good at it.
They're going to do it muchbetter than you will.
So EOS is awesome.

(56:08):
Even if you're a small company,you can take bits and pieces of
it and just, you know, just usethe bits and pieces that you
can.
But with the with, I think youknow, with that focus on the
next right thing, just using itto find the next right thing to
work on is is what what's reallyimpactful?

(56:30):
Right thing to work on iswhat's really impactful, as we
kind of started this off withtalking about framing this as
getting over the hope stage.
Getting through the hope stage,the what's next.
You sat in that hope stage forsome years.
Right, it was some years thatyou sat in the hope stage.
You started making somebreakthroughs.

(56:52):
You started getting you know,making some breakthroughs from
personal development, businessdevelopment, like oh, oh, okay,
and then from just lessons youlearned on the you know through
your day to day.
What advice would you givecontractors who are in those
early stages?
They're still in that hopestage and they're trying to
break through stages.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
They're still in that hope stage and they're trying
to break through.
That's a good one.
I mean, the easiest cop out butI just think it is so true is

(57:34):
to just never give up, and it's.
I've heard it a thousand timesand I won't lie.
I roll my eyes, just like I'msure most of you guys are doing
right now, but the truestdefinition of failure is just
simply the moment you decide toquit.
Right, and so if, if you decideto never quit and you continue
to learn, you continue.
I just think you need to becomeso.
I don't even like the wordpassion.
It's not passion, it's not,it's just addicted to that.

(57:58):
Success is is it I fuel off ofit or I did drives me?
It fuels every part of it.
We have a we?
Um, I just created it, aspreadsheet, right?
So so part of EOS.
Just to circle back, anotherthing I love is the rocks.
That's a super nice thing.
Those, those 90 day goals areawesome.

(58:20):
Um, but with that comes yourone, three and 10 year planning
and then 10 years.
Our goal is to be the mostfive-star reviewed company in
our area.
Is to be the most five-starreviewed company in our area,
and to do that I have to knowwhere everybody else is.
So, internally, I have adocument that has every other

(58:40):
contractor listed and the datethat I recorded their Google
reviews, and then I have thenext date and then I note their
speed and how quickly they'regetting reviews and what their
average review is, and all ofthese metrics, um and and.
To me that's just a um symptomof the desire to just be the

(59:02):
absolute best.
And so if, if you have thatdrive, if you have in your head
that there is nothing that willstop you that you'll get there.
It's just a matter of when.
For us it took longer, andwe're not even there yet.
I don't even claim to be thereyet.
It just took us longer to getfrom level one to level two.

(59:24):
I would say we're at maybelevel two right now.
We are barely ahead of you.
Listening to this, if you findyourself, you know maybe where I
was a couple of years ago.
You know, but it's so much funbecause you just at least.
For me, it seems like we justkeep changing the crosshairs of
our target.
It was originally it was wow,it'd be so cool to be at a
million dollars.
Well, now we're there and it'slike wow, I wonder if we could

(59:46):
be at three this year, I wonderif we can get to three Like.
So we're making moves in thatdirection.
Just know that the the the otherpiece of advice that I have for
anybody starting off is theonly wrong decision is
indecision, failure to make adecision on something, whether
that's hiring somebody, tryingout a sub crew, maybe a new

(01:00:07):
marketing thing, giving notgiving it your best or your all,
or committing to things,they're just not making that
decision, whether it's a yes ora no, is the only thing you are
doing wrong.
Right, maybe this is not thebest decision for you, but it's
also one where not deciding isfar worse.

(01:00:27):
And then you know, kind of.
Lastly is just be consistent.
We've always been veryconsistent on social media and
have just gotten to really startto dial that in.
You know, and for us, that'sabout 50,000 impressions a month
that we've been averaging thisyear and just posting every
single day.

(01:00:47):
That's just that specific thing,but it is also it's we're
consistently doing trainings,we're consistently reading books
, we're consistently doing funteam events, because we want to
make sure that the culture thatwe're building here is one that
people want to build theircareers around and it's not just
a job, and so building all ofthat, being absolutely thirsty

(01:01:09):
for success, just hungry for it,it all drives all of that, and
so, never giving up.
It's again.
I hate how cliche it is, TrulyI hate how cliche it is, but it
doesn't make it wrong and itdoesn't make it false, it just
makes it really obvious.
Unfortunately, and it's onewhere I think, if, if, um, if

(01:01:32):
you're out there listening, andagain, if you find that I'm one
year ahead of you, it, it, youvery well could shoot past what
we did in a year.
You know making the right moves, but all I know is, if you
don't make any moves, I canpromise you it will not happen
by accident.
So, yeah, that's my kind ofadvice.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Awesome man, Thanks for your time.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
Get after it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast
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(01:02:25):
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