How This Roofer Built a Roofing Culture So Strong It Runs Without Him with Ronnie Lollar

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What if the secret to scaling your roofing company
isn't another lead gen hack, butbuilding a culture so strong it
runs without you?
Ronnie Lawler knows what ittakes.
He started knocking doors at 11years old, built Avco Roofing
into a multi-location powerhouseand co-founded Roof Warrior to
help others do the same.

(00:21):
But it wasn't always smooth.
He's been through the hardstuff friendships falling apart,
team members leaving to starttheir own companies, culture
setbacks, even questioning if itwas all worth it.
But instead of pulling back,ronnie doubled down.
In this episode, you'll learnhow to create a leadership team
that doesn't need you, the rightway to let reps fail so they

(00:44):
actually grow, and why you needto lose your savior complex if
you ever want to scale.
If you've ever felt stuckworking in the business and not
on it, ronnie's got the playbookto change that.
This one's packed with truth,heart and systems that scale.
Let's get into it with RonnieLawler of Avco Roofing.

(01:05):
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here tobring you insights from top
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your
roofing business.
You got Ronnie Lawler, avcoRoofing and Roof Warrior.
How are you today?

Speaker 3 (01:22):
bro.
Yeah, Jim, I'm doing great.
I really appreciate that Been alot of fun.
It starts of the year andyou've got a lot of fun things,
so I appreciate the opportunity.
Thanks for asking.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be fun.
Man, you have been an integralpart of the I would say of of of
the Avco team for for someyears now and you can explain
that to people.
And then you know you guys, youand he started Roof Warrior, or
you know and so introduceyourself to anyone that you know

(01:55):
, to the audience, and if, ifthey haven't heard of you or
don't know you, yeah, yeah, myname is Ronnie Lawler.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
I am the visionary at Avco Roofing.
I've been here for probably 10years, which is kind of crazy.
I've been in the industry forthis is year 18, which also
sounds kind of nuts, but when Isay that out loud it's easy to
kind of track, because my oldestson, my wife, is pregnant with
our first kid whenever, so I canalways know he's 17.

(02:25):
He's 16.
I think she was pregnant withhim when I started.
That makes it a little biteasier.
But, yeah, it's something thatI've really enjoyed over the
years is just the roofing spaceand what it offers, the

(02:46):
opportunity we were kind oftalking about it earlier that it
allows for so much opportunityfor so many different people.
Yeah, I've been in sales.
I was in the fitness industryfor a number of years as well.
I was a personal trainer andfitness manager for a number of
24-hour fitnesses in Denver,colorado, greater Denver area
for a number of years and I lovedoing that.
You know I've been knockingdoors since I was 11, which is

(03:08):
kind of crazy.
That's where a lot of mypassion and decision to start
Roof Warrior kind of came out ofthat.
And so, yeah, heath and I wedecided to create Roof Warrior
because he and I, when we gotinto the industry, uh, you know,
we got dropped off, probablylike a lot of us on here that

(03:29):
are listening right now.
You get dropped off at the endof the driveway and said, okay,
we'll uh see if you can go, uhtalk to those people and
convince them to let you get upon their roof and then, uh, even
better, to see if you can signa contract while you're at it,
you know.
And so, uh, since that was ourtraining, uh, we decided like
there's gotta be better, betteroptions out there, and uh, so,

(03:51):
uh, he and I's heart is justkind of that of a coach.
I really enjoy helping people.
That's kind of, um, part of whoI am.
It's just uh kind of what Ienjoy doing.
It's part of why I love what Iget to do nowadays is that I'm
not over any specific departmentat Avco.
I get to be the visionary, Iget to be the culture setter, I
get to be the person that justchecks in with people and I get

(04:16):
to hear about how things aregoing and get to help
troubleshoot different parts ofwhat's going on.
And yeah, so we decided to makeRoof Warrior because we wanted
to do something a little bitdifferent.
We wanted to.
You know, there's a lot ofgreat coaches.
There's a lot of great trainingprograms and platforms that are
out there.
There's tons of them.
I'm great friends with JimJohnson.

(04:37):
I'm actually part of one of hismastermind groups.
I love Jim and he does greatstuff and we actually used him
when we first started.
He really helped expedite usand so, but we wanted to do
something a little bit different.
We had the perspective of, like, we're still operating a
roofing company today, like inmultiple different locations,
and so we thought we might havea little bit of something

(04:58):
different to offer and to saywith Roof Warrior, and so that's
why we created it, and we'vehad that for the last, I guess,
three plus years.
So we chose to partner withSales Transformation Group and
Ryan Groff and his team has beena great partnership over there,
and so they house our productinside of their platform and our

(05:21):
partnership, yeah, so that'skind of a little bit of that.
Got three awesome boys.
I got a 17 year old, a 14 yearold and an 11 year old.
Been married to my beautifulwife Lindsay for 18 years now
then when they're for 20, whichis kind of crazy to say and not
only do I like, love my wife,but I actually like my wife, I
enjoy her company.

(05:41):
So very, very blessed and verygrateful to have her, uh, been
very supportive over the yearsof the craziness of uh, what it,
what it was getting intoroofing and you know knocking
doors and you know 100commission and all those
different things right it's a,it's a journey, and you
definitely have to have thefamily on board right there.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
That, that, that's for sure.
You know, you from our pastconversations.
What was it?
How many industries you'veknocked doors in what like seven
industries over the years?

Speaker 3 (06:13):
yeah, so six industries in seven states?
yes, six industries in sevenstates and fell, and roofing
became the one yeah, I had, um,I grew up in new jersey, um, so
grew up, uh, that's when westill rode our bikes all across,
uh, you know, and parents toldyou to be home kind of by dark,

(06:36):
ish, right, uh, and uh, yeah, Ikind of fell into the
opportunity.
Um, I was riding my, my bmxbike, you know, down some side
road and a guy pulled up in awood panel uh, station wagon and
you know, these are crankwindows for you younger folks
that don't know what that is.
Uh, crank the window down islike, hey, you want to make some
money.
You know, I was like, as aparent now I would have freaked

(06:58):
out and I would have like,chased that guy out of the
neighborhood, right.
But but, uh, back then I waslike, well, yeah, sure, I'd love
to make money.
You know, he's like you buy newBMX bike or comic books or
whatever.
And he just told me about, youknow, offering newspaper
subscriptions, uh, and sellingthem to adults.
And I was like, well, how doyou do that?
He's like, well, you just knockon their door and, you know,

(07:19):
ask him if they want to buy asubscription, okay, and I get
paid for that.
Yeah, yep, yep, they offered mesome uh, you know, some
competitions and stuff like that.
And the first competition atthat time is, like 1991, keep in
mind.
So it was a, uh, it was aportable boom box CD player.
So you remember, like the onesyou know, like you had to put on
your shoulder, and so I waslike, well, how do I win one of

(07:39):
those things?
And yeah, I mean so we just gotto show more than anybody else
in the district and so myparents were like sure, this
seems like a good idea.
We'll let you, you know, goknock on a bunch of strangers
doors and, uh, uh, offernewspaper subscriptions.
So I did that and uh, yeah, Iwon the boombox cd player.
And that was kind of the uh,the kickoff to my, uh, my door
knocking uh, career over theyears uh, I, I had the same, the

(08:04):
same experience.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
So in that was 1987 for me, I was knocking doors
delivering newspapers.
I was the.
I had a.
My territory was phenomenal,ronnie.
I had a, an apartment complex,oh wow.
So I had just a great audience,right like I.
I didn't have far to go for allof it, but I had some long

(08:25):
throws up to the second level,uh, going through.
But that door-to-door experienceas a kid is important, man, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna give you alittle proud dad moment, for,
from myself, I have a.
I have twin boys that are 11,and my son, james, likes to set
up stands in front of the, infront of the house, and sell
anything that he can, you know,from lemonade to origami, to

(08:48):
artwork, to rocks, um, anything.
And uh, and you know, not longago, you know, living here in
Minnesota, the weather is not sogreat to put stands in the
front yard.
There's just not as many peopleout and about.
Right, I introduced him to theconcept of door-to-door.
There you go, and he wentdoor-to-door and sold his

(09:11):
drawings, uh, and, and made likeI don't know, he made like 40,
50 bucks walk in theneighborhood knocking doors and
I, I, you know.
So he's getting that sameexperience.
Right, get out, get out there.
It's an amazing thing.
So, from those news, that wasyour first kind of like, wow,
this is people give me money fortalking to them.

(09:35):
Right, what's going on?
This is crazy, yeah.
And then, over the years,through multiple industries and
then landed in roofing.
Yeah, uh, over the years,through multiple industries and
then landed in roofing.
Yeah, you know, let's talk alittle bit about Avco and the
growth since you in, in the timethat you've been there, right,
um, and some of the maybe, maybetouch on some of the, you know,

(09:56):
key moments that that, thatthat really were, were
transformative along the way.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, it's uh, it's been just like anything else you
could imagine in 10 years, kindof had its ups and down, uh, up
and downs, uh, somedifficulties, some very big wins
, um, some really reallychallenging things.
Um, and so you know, when wefirst, when keith bought avco
and I was working at eitherroofing company here and he's
like, hey, let's um, let'srebrand, let's relaunch this

(10:24):
company that's been in ourcommunity for a number of years
but they had never really donemuch.
They were at a good reputationbut they, they weren't really
noteworthy.
Uh, when it came to that, andreally he and I collectively
like we've been friends now for22 plus years, which is awesome
and we got honestly, uh, our,our relationship's better now
than it's ever been and I reallyappreciate him as a friend,

(10:47):
even more so than a partner.
And so you know, we cametogether and we really thought,
like what did we wish that allthe different companies because
we had both worked at multipleroofing companies of like what
would we want to have had whenwe first started, you know, and
a big part of that was like wewanted good culture, we wanted

(11:08):
um to, you know,performance-based compensation,
so like if the guys did reallyreally well and they went and
generated their own book ofbusiness, like we wanted to
appropriately compensate you forthat and then, um, to have
freedom of schedule to where youcould actually enjoy that money
.
Right, because, like some of myprevious jobs working door to

(11:30):
door I'd work 60, 70, 80 hours aweek and I was hitting a
ceiling, and so we really wantedto make it something to where
the ceiling is a glass ceilingand it's because you set that
ceiling for yourself.
It's not what we did, and soinitially a lot of it was we
just saw all of our friends thathad been working hard for a

(11:51):
number of years and that theyjust didn't have the right kind
of opportunity.
They didn't.
You know, the culture wasn'tgreat, but they were hardworking
people where they were goodcharacter.
You know they were coachable.
You know some of those keythings that even initially, we
kind of were like, well, we needto, you know, not hire
everybody that we know, becausethat's probably going to be a
terrible experience.
And so we brought on initiallyit was just like seven of our

(12:14):
buddies, if I'm being honest washow it kind of started, and the
great thing is that several ofthem still work for us to this
day, which is really, reallycool, and so I think that's a
testament to who we are, butalso to who they are, of course,
too.
Um, and so that initial, likeyou know, first year, um, you
know, I think we did fivemillion our first year, um,
which the best they had everdone was like 1.7 in eight years

(12:37):
previous, and so we did likefive million our first year, and
so that was like, okay, we kindof have something here, um, you
know, and then we really had tokind of start thinking through
like well, like everybody elsewants to tell everybody else
about their experience workingfor this cool company and with a
bunch of their friends andmaking really good money.
And you know, wheneversomebody's buying a new truck or

(12:58):
buying a home, that you've beenlike you've always been broke
man, like what in the world isgoing on, like how did this
happen?
Just like probably a lot of thepeople's stories that we have
that are listening right now,and so they just kind of
naturally started recruiting forus, and so then we were like,
okay, well, we need to kind ofmaybe like come up with a plan
here a little bit more.
Maybe we should start likewriting stuff down, like instead

(13:18):
of just kind of winging it herea little bit.
And so then we had to start,you know, building that out,
building out the actualinfrastructure of everything,
and and so over the over theyears, just seeing those kind of
smaller milestones.
That really it was.
We wanted it to be a place thatyou wanted to come to work at
and you would enjoy coming.

(13:42):
Milestones that were hard Sorry,my automatic light just went
out over here, so give me asecond and there were some
milestones that were really hardbecause some of those people,
over time, they didn't want tobe apart any longer and they
were friends and so we had tosever some of those
relationships and some of themwere really, really messy.
And you know, like I'm notgonna lie and say that it's, oh,

(14:02):
it's all those people's faultor they chose to to leave, like,
yeah, I'm a person too, likeI'm human and, um, you know I, I
actually, you know I, I wishfor those people to to be
successful.
I don't wish ill of any of them, like I don't want them to, you
know, have a rough life becausethey might have, you know,
caused some hardship for for us,uh, in, in leaving, or anything

(14:25):
like that.
So we've had some hard times,for sure, we took a pretty big
dip a few years back.
But the really cool thing, jim,has been seeing the
transformation in the company inthe last three or four years
and seeing the culture.
I am so proud.
I was literally on a date withmy wife on Tuesday in those you
know last three or four yearsand seeing the culture like I am
so proud, like I was literallyon my on a date with my wife on

(14:47):
tuesday and she was like haveyou really just kind of taken a
moment and paused to see, like,what you have done with the team
?
Of course, like this is notlike a me thing, but you've set
the culture the way that it isand like because when I come to
work, I am like actually veryexcited to come to work.

(15:07):
I'm so excited to come to workand I always say it like this
like life is too short to notenjoy the people you work with
and to hate what you do, likeit's just it's too short.
We get one of these, so why,why not find a place where you
fit in?
Why not make that place for youto create that for somebody

(15:29):
else?
And so it's been a beautifulthing to see the people that
were able to stick it out withus to see the change.
And now I can honestly say I'venever been more proud and more
excited for the opportunity thatwe're giving so many other

(15:49):
people.
And so, yeah, now you knowwe're coming up on our 10 years
at the end of October, so I'mreally really really very
thankful, very thankful, for thefolks that honestly, like even
in their maybe leaving, and Ilearned a lot from that.
I learned a lot about myself.
Um, I learned that instead ofyou know, like, if we're, if

(16:12):
we're loving people well, ifwe're coaching people well, if
we're training people well, likeyou're going to have people
spin off from you, it's justgoing to happen.
And initially I got really hurt, if I'm being 100% honest, like
, and it hurt because some ofthem were close friends, and it
really hurt and I kind of likepulled in a little bit and I got

(16:35):
kind of hardened a little bit,I guess you could say, and I was
like you know what, I'm justnot gonna, I'm just not gonna
put myself out there, I'm notgonna allow myself to get hurt
like that again.
I don't want to feel thatfeeling again and I was talking
to somebody and they said well,are you hurting them or are you
hurting really yourself?
Because you're not really beingtrue to who God's created you

(16:57):
to be?
If you go down this path rightand I hadn't really thought
about it in that, because I wasI was very raw at that time and
I really had to think throughyou know, like you're, you're
right, and then, instead of likepulling back, I like jumped in
both feet head first, like youknow what, right into the deep
end, and it was like, if this isgoing to cause potential

(17:19):
what-if scenarios or pain in thefuture, then so be it.
But I'm going to be who I'msupposed to be and I'm going to
love people and I'm going tocare deeply and I'm going to
continue to pour into peoplebecause that's who I am, that's
who I was made to be, and Idon't want to shrink back from
that.
So if other things come fromthat that's out of my control, I
can only can do what I can do,and so for me, that's, you know,

(17:41):
being being who I am and whoGod's called me to be and to
hopefully, you know, be a safecontainer for other folks as
well.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, it gets.
I can see the challenge in thatand I've heard it from a lot of
contractors who have had.
You know, sales reps and teammembers leave to start their own
thing is what I'm hearing.
And team members leave to starttheir own thing is what I'm
hearing.
And, my goodness, if you lookover time, um, if you like, 10,

(18:11):
15 years from now, if you watchthat, those seeds that were
planted at your company and thenthey grew in like the different
perspective on it Right, likeright If you get to look at it.
We it.
We're starting to experiencethat from our from Roofer
Marketers, from our digitalmarketing agency, and some of

(18:33):
our team members that were withus have gone to other places and
and I'm like, oh, there's someof us over there.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
And there's some of us over there.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
There's some of us over there and it's like it's a.
It's a it can be a really coolthing.
It doesn't feel good up front,up front.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
But yeah, yeah, I had a question for you, because you
talked about culture andcreating a good culture.
Culture is a.
Culture is one of those bigwords, right, with big meaning.
What is it?

(19:11):
What does it mean to you?
What does it, what is goodculture, mean to you?

Speaker 3 (19:14):
yeah, so when I really think about culture, I
think culture feels like theblood of the company.
To me it's like the lifeblood,it's the source, if you will.
If that's bad, everything elseis going to be bad.
You got to kind of start there,and if you don't set the
culture as the owner, as theleader, as the group of

(19:37):
leadership, somebody is going toset the culture in your company
.
So if you are removed, if youyou are not involved, if you're
not engaged, somebody else isgoing to set the culture for you
.
Okay, and you probably won'tlike what it looks like, more
than likely.
Um and so for me, really goodculture looks like being a great

(20:02):
minded company, and not justfrom a professional perspective.
Right, people think that theycan compartmentalize
professional and personal forforever and I just don't believe
, like I hope, that I'm the sameperson at work, that I am at
home.
I don't try to be a differentperson.
You know I don't have apreacher's voice at work and

(20:24):
then know at home it soundsdifferent.
Right, with how I engage withmy family, and I think, for for
us it's.
You know, people are comingfrom all different walks of life
, people have all kinds of yearsof experience all kinds of
baggage, if you will.
I have baggage, you got bags,we've all got baggage.
And to just just to be okaythat sometimes they're also

(20:48):
gonna mess up, right, like, andthat's okay.
Um, one of our core values isthat we learn, we improve and we
refuse to quit, not fail.
Failure is actually a part ofthe learning process.
I want my people to fail.
I give them the room to failand I verbalize that to them.
And if they mess up, I don'twant to be the first one to

(21:12):
reach in and like have a saviorcomplex which I have had before
and be like well, let me fixthat, because then I just
undermined everything that theydid.
And so we really try to fostera group, collective of like.
We're here for one another,right Like, like.
Our vision is like to make Avcothe best place to work, like.
That's literally our visionstatement, not our mission

(21:33):
statement.
Our vision statement is for usto make Avco the best place to
work and we're not for everybodyLike.
If you don't like, you know, youknow being encouraged,
challenge, held accountable, um,you know, uh, you're you're
probably going to kind of hateit here, um, but those people
that like are open to that.

(21:54):
Um, you know, like they reallyenjoy it.
Like I had just yesterday, Ihad, you know, three people as I
moved my furniture around.
We did breath work together onmy carpet in my office, you know
.
And, uh, and people are likeyou would ask me if I would have
ever done this three months ago.
Uh, you know I would have.
Or three years ago I would havetold you you were crazy, right?

(22:16):
But, um, you know different,just little things.
And we want to see people thrive, like I want to see.
I love when I hear they boughttheir first home, I, you know.
Or putting our kids in privateschool.
We paid off debt.
Uh, we got to go on a familyvacation for the first time.
Like that is way moresatisfying than any amount of
money.
Like, well, you can only buy somuch stuff before you like,

(22:38):
you're like, okay, like I, whatelse can I buy?
I'll buy another truck, anothervehicle, another car, another
house, sure, or seeing all thisother cool stuff happen to so
many other people, man, thatjust gets me.
It gets me so excited.
So, yeah, I think culture isthe lifeblood.
Um, healthy culture is alsobeing willing to, to know and

(22:59):
have people be okay, as theleader, for people to call you
out on your stuff just because Ihappen to be the boss doesn't
mean that I'm above reproach.
Like I, I want to be able to,to welcome that.
Um, you know, in our leadershipteam meetings, like you know,
I'm just one of the other people.
I might be the visionary, likewhen it comes to the you know,

(23:20):
the uh, organizational chart,but they're like we're we're
peers, um, and if they see thatI've been doing something wrong,
like call me out on my bs.
You know, like I, I want to beopen towards those kind of
things and so, I think, you know, being open, being transparent,
being vulnerable, beingauthentic, um, I, I think that

(23:41):
all of those things reallyhelped lend well to a healthy
culture.
For a while, I kind of thoughtthat we needed to not be 100%
forthright with certaininformation and withhold and not
talk about certain things, andit just led to where people
thought you were being dishonestand you were like, well, I

(24:02):
don't want to share this withyou and, honestly, it's just
like, okay, here's, here's,here's behind the curtain, like
whatever, I don't really evencare.
Like you can look behind thecurtain, it's fine, and so, um,
it's been, it's been great.
Honestly, it's kind of a reliefand kind of like a weight off
the shoulders to be like okay,cool, yeah, you can ask whatever
.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
That's all right.
That's a great answer.
What is it?
What does it really look liketo build a team you can trust
and step back from the day today?

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Um, you know, there was plenty of years where I wore
like multiple hats, like, yeah,I was the COO for a while, I
was a sales manager for a while,I was, you know, out in the
field docking and selling forquite a long time.
I mean, uh, you know, I had,I've had to run payroll before.
I've had to, you know, get inQuickBooks and cut checks.
You know, kind of like a lot ofus had to wear multiple
different hats at differentparts of the business.
And seeing to where you allowthose people right Well, you

(25:19):
kind of alluded to it earlier inthat core value that I
mentioned learn, improve andrefuse to quit, not to fail,
like we said, but giving themthe space and really seeing
something.
And I feel like this is kind oflike maybe one of my
superpowers is I see somethingin somebody that they might not
even recognize, that they havein themselves, and then learning

(25:41):
to how to ask the rightquestions to help kind of unlock
that mechanism that's kind ofin there, to get them to almost
get unstuck in their own brain,sometimes to be like, oh no, no,
I could, I couldn't do that, orthat's, that's too big, or
that's too scary, or I've neverdone that before or whatever it
might be.
That's keeping them back andthen just asking good questions

(26:02):
to help them, kind of like,relieve that weight, relieve
that pressure, to startbelieving in themselves because
I can speak to that and which Ishould, in which we should, and
kind of almost kind of helpingdraw that out of them.
But they've got to eventuallystart to believe that for
themselves.
It doesn't come fast, you know.

(26:22):
Relationship equals time spent,and that's what you have to do.
There is no shortcut here.
There's no quick, easy buttonwhen it's like well, I don't
want to be over this department,this department or anything,
and I want to be able to backout and you know, go do whatever
I want to do, like, okay, youmight be able to do that in 18
months, two years, three years,but if you're in that and you're

(26:43):
in the you know the thick of itright now you can't just pull
the chute and eject like'recomfortable.
You will fall apart.
You can't do that.
You've got to do practicalthings right now.
And so just seeing, uh, seeingthe different folks, uh, I'm
just smiling because I'm likeliterally like recalling stories

(27:04):
and uh, in my, in my mind, ofmy leadership team specifically
and seeing them, uh, step intoto those roles in the last you
know, three, four, five years orwhatever it has been, or even,
for some of them, even like thelast six months.
But it was an awesome thing tosee them execute that job,

(27:25):
execute that role, and then say,okay, I see that, and then
offer them that opportunity ifthey would want it.
Right, like you got to makesure that they actually want
that opportunity.
You don't want to just drop iton their lap and be like, well,
here you go, you're the topsalesperson, so you should be
the sales manager.
Probably not.
Probably shouldn't do that.
If I'm being honest, thatusually doesn't bode very well

(27:45):
for your top guy being your,your your sales manager.
But making sure that they havethat desire there and then start
to help build that inside ofthem and then just kind of step
back Right, like one of thethings that really really helped
me.
Um, I kind of always liked to bethe guy and have all the
answers, but I realized that Icouldn't be the guy and have all

(28:09):
the answers and have thequality of home life that I
really wanted.
I couldn't have both, and sosomething had to give.
And so one of the things fromlike a practical standpoint,
that really helped me to helpthem also was when they would
call, didn't matter what day,what time it was.
I used to answer every singletime Somebody called me for work

(28:30):
.
Didn't matter if it was datenight, didn't matter if my what
time it was.
I used to answer every singletime somebody called me for work
, didn't matter if it was datenight, didn't matter if my kids
were talking to me, didn'tmatter, I just answered the
phone.
Could be 9 pm on a Sunday nightand I'm answering the phone.
You can only imagine how greatthat went over at home.
Very understanding wife.
She was still very, veryunderstanding for all the years
that I did do that and, babe,I'm sorry, my that you know,

(28:52):
hopefully, hopefully forgivingme over this time, but just
stopped answering when theywould call and then I would just
text back 45 minutes later.
Hey, just check and see ifyou're okay, if you need me to
call you back.
I mean, jim, you could probablyguess like what, what
transpired?
Nope, we got to, got it figuredout the collaboration of them

(29:14):
working together with somebodyelse in a different department,
them really believing inthemselves and then taking that
next step.
Um, it was a, a beautiful thing.
Um to where now?
Yeah, I don't.
I don't actually oversee any ofthe operations on a on a
day-to-day basis.
The team is doing it.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
It's pretty amazing when you give them the
opportunity.
You talked about the saviorcomplex.
How can an owner identify thatin themselves and then break
that cycle with their team?
Before we carry on with theepisode, let's give a shout out
to one of our sponsors.
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(29:58):
they're not working hard, butbecause they're missing the
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when change hits they'rereacting instead of leading
because time and prioritiesaren't under their control.

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journey today.
You talked about the saviorcomplex.

(30:42):
How can an owner identify thatthat in themselves and then
break that cycle with their team?
And you kind of mentioned onething already, and that's what
made me think about it.

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Yeah, a lot of us that have that same beer complex
.
Probably a lot of them aresalespeople.
If I'm being honest, we thinkthat we're the best and we're
the greatest salespeople of alltime and you kind of have to
have a chip on your shoulder,especially if you're a
door-to-door sales guy andespecially if you're a DVD guy

(31:15):
in one of the big marketsMinnesota, dallas, denver you
kind of have to have a littlebit of a swagger about you to
not get your teeth kicked in,especially if you do it for 10
plus years, right.
And so I think that sometimesit comes down to allowing other
people, first off to speak intoyour life and to call out those
things right To realize andbeing open to that.

(31:39):
Because if you're not willingto receive that because I can
think of some guys that I've hadconversations with and they
just weren't ready for thatconversation, because I would be
like, well, what about this?
And asking them questions notaccusing, but asking questions
and inviting to be part of thatconversation and hearing their
response I'm like, okay, there'sno sense of me continuing this
conversation there.
We're not going to be able toget there right now, and that's

(32:01):
okay, I don't need to push,there's no sense of doing that.
But allowing people to speakinto your life is important.
Being coachable, no matter whoyou are.
Being a lifelong learner likeit doesn't matter if you're 80
years old, you have a milliondegrees, you own multiple
companies, you're a billionaire,you know?
Warren buffett talks about allthe time like he learns every
single day.

(32:21):
He continues to learn.
So why can't we continue tolearn?
And so, being those that,having the humility, um the self
awareness, but also allowing tobe coached, is an important
part.
To allow people to speak intoyour life in regards to those
things that maybe you might notsee at the time.
But also if, from your ownperspective, if you don't have

(32:45):
that and right now you'relistening and you're thinking
like, well, I don't have asavior complex, well, okay, well
, maybe let's pause and let thatsink in and maybe let that
reflect for a minute and thenask yourself some questions.
Whenever something goes wrong,do I feel like I have to be the
one that fixes it?
That's a great start.

(33:05):
The last something time thatsomething broke production,
sales, whatever department wereyou the person was like fine,
just get out of the way, I'lljust do it myself.
It'd be easier if I just did itmyself.
You're not even getting it if.
If you're saying those kind ofthings, you probably have a
savior complex right.

(33:26):
But then let's think about itfrom this context.
How do you think that makesthat person feel that you gave
that authority and then then,all of a sudden, you're rushing
into save them.
Are you saving them?
Are you sure?
I don't think that they'rewanting to be saved in that
moment.
I don't think so.
So maybe, even if you're nowthinking about one of those

(33:49):
times that you've done thatrecently, in the last, you know,
two to three weeks maybe go askthat person and ask them and
hopefully they can be honestwith you, cause some people
might not feel like they can behonest with you but ask them,
like, whenever I came in thatand that happened, what did you
actually feel in that momentwhen I jumped in and I actually

(34:10):
took over and took the reinsback?
How did that make you actuallyfeel?
Not, what did you think?
What did you feel?
What did you feel in your body?
And then just pause and,whatever they say, welcome that,
Because there's going to besome semblance of truth, because
their perception is going to bethere, and you can either

(34:32):
receive that and then thenrealize, like who's, is that how
other people perceive me?
Maybe the great thing is whenyou allow room for people to do
that, like I know that myleadership team would like run
through a, you know, a brickwall for me, right, it's also

(34:56):
because I acknowledge who theyare, not just like what they can
do for us, right, but Iacknowledge who they are as
people and I regularly thankedthem for what they're doing,
right, like when's the last timethat we took that extra moment
to just kind of pause because ofhow hectic it is or whatever
what's going on?

(35:16):
Right, like we're in a bighiring crunch.
Or, you know, like our Dallaslocation, we just got a big hail
storm.
Like go, go, go go.
All of those things are allvalid, but people that are
operating our business areliterally the most important
part of the business.
That's number one.
We can make more profit, we canmake more revenue, we can

(35:38):
create new processes, but can wemake new people when we burn
those bridges?
Kind of hard to come back fromthose things.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
And I think another thing to add to what you're
saying is I think you'll findout who they are a little bit
when you ask them that question.
Because when we hire in thebeginning of our businesses, I
feel like we hire like someoneto just help us with something
Right, but they, but they relyon us for what to do and how to

(36:12):
do it.
But as your business grows oras you get certain, you know
well the A player, the 10X orthe whatever you want to call
that person, the leadership typeof roles in your company.
They own that role, so theyshould feel a certain way that

(36:33):
you jumped in and that may giveyou some indication into into.
Is that the right person for aleadership style role, like if
they're a point they're likeyeah, my goodness, I'm so glad
that you jumped in every timeyou jump in, just please jump in
every time.
That's going to give you someindication right, like about who
that person is at their coreand maybe how far that they can

(36:55):
go in a leadership role with you.
I want to talk to change alittle bit, but still around
team.
What are the most commonmistakes you see companies make
in building their sales teams?

Speaker 3 (37:13):
so that they see the opportunity or they see a
person's numbers or theircharisma and they allow
character and culture fit to notbe acknowledged first and
foremost, that it's like, oh,this guy's a he's a two million

(37:36):
dollar producer leaving thisother company, he wants to come
work for us, but are we havingcore value interviews?
Are we having culture fitinterviews?
Um, just because you seenumbers doesn't mean that that's
going to be a good decision forthe long haul, and so generally
that's like the first one,that's usually pretty like okay,

(37:58):
or they sold cars or they camefrom some other sales industry
or whatever it is, but they werenot looking at their character
first and foremost, becausecharacter is going to come out
at some point in time.
There is going to be frictionin that business relationship

(38:19):
and how that person is and intheir character is how they're
going to respond in thosedifficult moments and what
they're going to do inside ofyour company in those moments
matters.
And so I would say core valueand culture fit like for some
reason people don't do like oneof our whole interview process,
like a whole section of ourmulti-tier interview process

(38:41):
that we have for salespeople thefirst or second interview part
is literally core value andculture fit and it's over an
hour long and it's only aroundcore value and culture and
culture fit, and it's over anhour long and it's only around
core value and culture fit.
Don't bypass that.
That is such an important part,because people are either an ad

(39:02):
or they're a detractor in yourculture.
There is no neutral.
They're adding to your cultureor they're subtracting from your
culture, that's it, and so thatwould be the primary um.
The second I would say is thethe lack of learning how to get
what they have up here orsomebody else in their company

(39:23):
has the it factor right, likeyou know, and we were kind of
initially bad at the beginningof this like, well, if their
figure out factor is not veryhigh, then you know they're just
not going to be cut out forthis job.
No, it's because I didn't knowhow to put what I had up here
onto paper or onto video andactually properly trained

(39:44):
somebody.
So it's not those people'sfault, that's my fault, that's
my um.
Lack of leadership is what thatis, that's my lack of
leadership is what that is.
And so you might be sittingthere and being like, yeah, I'm,
you know my retention rates 22%, okay.
Well, if your retention ratesbelow 50% at all in any market

(40:06):
retail insurance, whatever partof the region of the country
you're in, that that should be ared flag to like, or at least
like a caution flag.
To be like, okay, what in ourprocesses are not correct here,
right Is it?
We're not interviewing properly.
Our ads are really, uh,properly phrased.
So we're like our, our net'stoo big.

(40:28):
Our onboarding's bad, our, youknow, two weeks of initial
training's bad.
Our continued education's bad.
Like what, what is it?
Where's the disconnect?
Because it's got to besomewhere.
If you're dropping that manypeople and so, from from that
perspective of you know, notknowing how to get what's in
their brain and and and into aform that other people can, can

(40:52):
understand, you can't just haveeverybody ride around with
Johnny and and be like, well,just, you know, ride around with
johnny and you know johnny'sgot it figured out like that's
not, that's not a trainingmethod, that's not a training
modality, that's not.
You don't have a trainingsystem.
Johnny can't be your trainingsystem like that's, that's not a
great idea.
And so just the uh, the, thehope and prayer of like, let's

(41:12):
see if we just throw it againstthe wall and see if it sticks.
Mentality Like we got to getpast that.
Especially if you want to growa successful sales organization
that's going to be able tocontinue to turn and generate
revenue in any type of market,you've got to have those kinds
of things in place.
You've got to have those kindsof things in place.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Then how do you find those reps?
What is the, you know?
How do you find good people foryour sales team?

Speaker 3 (41:39):
So our our first and foremost and has been this way
for the whole 10 years ispersonal networks.
We, we love to offer incentivesto all the people in our
company.
Like, hey, if we bring insomebody uh, and then they uh
started selling and they, aftertheir first roof, I will give
you, uh, some money for uhhelping recruit that person,

(42:01):
cause guess what, you're payingsomebody else to recruit or
you're creating ad spend orwhatever Like.
Why not incentivize our peopleum, tap into their personal
networks, right, um?
So that's kind of number one,Some of the other ones that have
been helpful for us militaryjob fairs, just saying, just
saying, because what aremilitary guys really good at?

(42:24):
They're really good at followinginstructions.
You tell them what to do, okay,if that's what the mission is,
okay, I can execute that,no-transcript.

(42:57):
If you're not, then you'redoing the exact same thing
everybody else is doing in yourmarket.
You're getting, you know likewe.
We personally don't hire guysfrom other companies, like you
know, just because I'd ratherhave a blank canvas to work with
.
Just start, it's a whole loteasier for somebody to learn
something the first time than tounlearn all of those things Not
saying that they're all badbehaviors, but then to then

(43:19):
relearn.
You're like having a blankcanvas and then having to paint
over the existing portrait thatwas painted by the other company
and then be like I think I gotit all covered.
And then it starts to bleedthrough and you're like crap,
like why is it?
Why is it bleeding through?
And it's like no, no, no, no,like we got to put some more
code on top of that.
So yeah, being comfortable withnot just hiring other reps Like

(43:39):
that's not a, that's not ahiring strategy is hiring other
reps from other companies andoffering them a couple more
points to leave that company.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
That's not a hiring strategy.
That that, yeah, that that now,on the other side of that, you
have to be able to paint thatcanvas, so, so you have to have
a training process in place thatyou can bring someone through
and and and help to make themsuccessful in that role.

(44:11):
How would you go about?
You know, how would a roofingcontractor go about setting up a
really solid training processthat's replicatable, so that
they don't have to rely on justpaying a little more commission
to the other rep across town?

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah.
So I think there's a fewdifferent ways you can go about
it.
Right, you can shorten the timeby, like, like I said initially
, like we hired Jim Johnson andthat shortened a number of years
off of the learning curvebecause we didn't know what we
didn't know at the time, right,so, paying a coach, paying a
training program to allow thatto happen, because more than

(44:51):
likely you might not also havesorry, I have light in you Uh,
you might not have the time tobe able to do that, right, and
so with that, uh, that light offthis time, there we go.
Uh, sorry about that, um, thatwill shorten that learning curve
.
Um, if, even if you think it'slike an investment, well, how
much is your time worth and howmany more years do you want to

(45:13):
put into that?
So there's, there's that side.
But say that, say that you wantto create your own.
Okay, first step is you, you gotto start documenting somewhere.
So the easiest step here, Ibelieve, is to think through if
you're thinking about, if we'retalking about sales people here,
specifically think through yourbiggest issue in your sales

(45:35):
process.
Well, maybe I should take astep back.
First off, do you have a salesprocess that's written down.
If you don't have a salesprocess that's written down, you
need to start there, okay?
So if you don't have that andyou're like sales process, what
does that even mean?
Like, just step by step, thefrom you know new lead intake
till the job closes out.
It needs to be documented.
Every single step, every smalltask that has to be done by

(45:58):
somebody in that sales process,it needs to be documented so you
have your full sales process.
So after you have that, then itis out of all of these things
here.
What is the thing that iscausing us the most heartburn in
our company right now?
Are you not getting enoughleads?
Okay, let's build out ourprocess of how do we generate

(46:19):
new leads.
Let's get this part built out.
So just start where the mostegregious thing, the thing
that's keeping you up at night,the thing that's causing you
stress in your life look at thatand then build that SOP.
Just to start that part of thetraining modality right.
There's great things now, likeLoom.

(46:41):
You can get on Loom and justshoot a video, just start
talking, and Loom's AI will thencreate and realize oh, this is
like a checklist that we'recreating and it'll create the
checklist for you and it's evenfree for some of that stuff.
But start somewhere.
A lot of people it's kind ofthat um, you know, paralysis by

(47:02):
analysis.
They're like well then, likethen I'm gonna have to get it
built out.
Just do the first thing.
Right, just do the first thingand, like I said, the easiest is
maybe not the easiest, but theone is.
Whatever's like the thingthat's most on fire in your
sales process.
Build that part out and theneverything from there starts to
involve the other people on thesales team.

(47:23):
Okay, could you do me a favor?
Could you know, johnny, wouldyou mind go ahead and document,
like what you do on a day in andday out basis as a salesperson
and just invite them to be partof the process.
You don't even have to do itall by yourself.
Let them help, ask for theirhelp.
A lot of the times they getreally excited.
They're like oh, wow, I canhelp with documenting this stuff

(47:44):
.
Yeah, I'm super excited.
I'd be more than happy to addyour feedback and your input.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
I'll go a step further now, because I'm deep
down the AI rabbit hole AIrabbit hole and so, my goodness,
you could ask ChatGPT tointerview you about it and
develop the SOP, and it will doit.
You can give all your input.
It will continue to ask youquestions until it has enough

(48:15):
data and it'll create this stufffor you.
So there's really no reason tonot have this documented anymore
.
You know you can't.
It's very hard to say I don'thave the time anymore.
Yeah, no, I did it and that'slike I had an answer.
Right, it is, it is.

(48:36):
I had.
I had chat GPT interview me ona podcast last last fall.
That's cool, and, and itinterviewed me, wow, like.
And it interviewed me, wow,like, it actually interviewed me
and it was.
It was pretty crazy to uh.
So if you haven't listened tothat one anyone listening go
back and listen to the chat gptone.
That was crazy and uh.
And so you have the the chatgpt app on your phone you can

(48:59):
have a conversation with and youcan make it conversational.
If you're not a, you know, ifyou're not someone that wants to
sit down and type, right like,you can actually have a voice
conversation with it now, um andso lots of easy things to do.
Um, in terms of the, the buildout of those systems are easier
than they ever have been.

(49:19):
Right, we'll just put it thatway.
They are easier than they haveever been.
Now it's having the rightmessaging, the right
conversations, and when we weretalking I think it was last week
you talked about an emotionallyintelligent sales process.
Like what does that actuallylook like?

(49:40):
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(50:02):
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(50:25):
Your full AI team is ready.
You talked about an emotionallyintelligent sales process.
Like what does that?
What does that actually looklike?

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Right, right, so early on in my sales career I
was very much a transactionalsalesperson.
It's, you know here, here's mypitch, here's my presentation.
I need you to sign on thedotted line.
Obviously it was a lot smoothersounding than that, but you
know that that was it.
It was no building of rapport,there was no building value

(51:01):
there was.
You know that was it.
There was no building ofrapport, there was no building
value there was.
You know I wasn't getting asmany referrals as I was kind of
hoping, because when I would askfor referrals, you know like
they weren't really interestingbecause there was no connection
there where it spoke about thatpeople trusted leaders that had

(51:32):
a higher EQ, so their emotionalintelligence score than their IQ
, by like twice as much.
No-transcript neuroplasticityand all those kind of things

(52:16):
that we can actually like rewireour brain.
I love that stuff and solearning how to become an
emotionally intelligent person,like we can do that, we can do
that.
It's taking a pause in that.
You know part of that salesprocess, if you will, to learn
how to ask good questions, right, and so we do a lot more of a

(52:41):
consultative sales approach iskind of how I phrase it.
Um, it's not us pitching thecustomer, it's us asking good
questions.
Um, you know I loved the app,uh, zero, um, because I love to
see how, how, what's thepercentage of time that our
sales guys are speaking versusthe percentage of time that

(53:01):
they're listening Right, like,like those are some really key
statistics.
Where time that they'relistening Right, like, like
those are some really keystatistics where it reads, reads
your tonality, uh, your totalwords per minute.
You know I'm a fast talker, aswe've kind of learned in this
conversation today, um, but alsojust learning how to read the
room right To, to read thatsituation with that customer,

(53:24):
right Like before they were justkind of like leaning in, and
then you said something and allof a sudden, you see that, you
know, that guy leaned back.
Now he's pulling away from you,he's crossed his arms, he's not
any longer open.
An emotionally intelligentperson should pick up on that
pause and then try to politelydive into what's going on what,

(53:46):
what, what happened where we hada little bit of a disconnect.
Maybe I miscommunicated and Iwant to make sure that we're on
the same page, you know.
And so that emotionallyintelligent, uh, part of the
process, um, I don't think itcan be really overstated, to be
honest, and I don't really heara ton of people talking about
that.
They talk a lot about you knowthe really overstated, to be
honest, and I don't really heara ton of people talking about
that.
They talk a lot about, you know,the sales guy gotta be

(54:07):
charismatic and he's gotta be asuper extrovert and you know,
and he's be good looking andlike ripped and you know, and if
they're a girl they need to besuper attractive and, you know,
be this tall, like no, theyactually don't.
That just means that we havethis preconceived idea that this
is what a salesperson lookslike.
But maybe it's because we'veactually just kind of done a

(54:30):
piss poor job on training otherpeople that can fit into this
larger bucket that we call salesand their personality and who
they are can actually be veryvast and who they are can
actually be very vast.
But it's because we are onlyisolating this.
You know person's, you know howgregarious this guy is and like
he's going to be a goodsalesperson, but maybe he

(54:50):
doesn't actually like payattention to detail and he
doesn't follow the sales processand he's like you know, like
you know, a dog chasing asquirrel and he's like can't
move the job along in theprocess.
You're going to be reallyfrustrated with that overly
charismatic guy.
But somebody else that you knowkind of ticked all the boxes in

(55:11):
all the different areas thatmight not have been overly, you
know, uh extroverted uh.
Maybe they're actually a betterperson uh for your sales
organization.
So, um, our sales organization,we I actually really enjoy
seeing the diversity that wehave uh between all of our
different folks.
It's, it's really pretty coolthat's awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
What are some of the top characteristics of your best
sales people?

Speaker 3 (55:35):
yeah.
So, um, I I prefer people thatare disciplined over people that
are motivated.
Motivation Motivation is itwanes.
You know, like this morning,when I got up for working out,
you know what I didn't feel?
I didn't feel motivated becauseI didn't sleep well last night
and so I wasn't motivated towork out.
But you know what I did?
I worked out because I chosediscipline, because I know, in

(55:58):
the grand scheme of things, it'sgoing to be better.
So we really try to look forpeople that like have some form
of, or some semblance of,discipline in their life.
That's really important.
People that are coachable.
You could be all the bestsalesperson on the face of the
planet, but you're like yeah,yeah, I got it man, like it's
fine.
And like I don't care who youare If you're not coachable, I'm

(56:22):
not here for it.
Like I'm just going to let youdo your thing, but we're not
interested in any capacity.
Those are two of the really bigones, of course, like high
character, I want to ask some.
In our interview process wereally ask a lot of situational
based questions, really ask alot of situational based

(56:45):
questions because I want them torecall a memory that's going to
pull on that, to let me know ifthey fit this characteristic
like you're talking about, um,so I want to ask certain
questions.
Um, you know those are some ofthe other things.
Um, like they do, they still doneed to be kind of money
motivated to a degree.
Money does not need to be theirtop motivator, but it still
needs to be top three.
If it's not, and they're like,yeah, I'm cool with making like

(57:06):
40K this year, it's like, well,yeah, that's not gonna really
work for us.
You know, it's like they doneed to be money motivated.
Some of the other things are youknow that they really do enjoy
helping other people.
Know that they they really doenjoy helping other people.
Um, that, like our, our group,is very much a team atmosphere.

(57:27):
Somebody else is struggling and, you know, maybe one of the
guys is having a hard timeknocking doors.
He's just not landinginspections.
A lot of the veterans like orother people will see that and
they'll be like hey, man, likewhy don't, why don't we go not
together today, this afternoon?
I don't even have to be likehey, johnny, johnny, I need you
to take out Timmy to go do thislike they do it on their own,
and so making sure that peoplelike want to be bought into that

(57:48):
team atmosphere is really acrucial part for us as well.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Yeah, that's awesome, that's great advice.
What you know, it sounds likeyou, you you'll agree with me on
this, but I believe that yourbusiness journey is a journey of
personal development, rightLike I can hear it in you.
And so what are kind of some ofthe biggest mindset shifts that

(58:17):
helped you go from you know adoor knocker to a visionary
leader?

Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yeah, I 100% do agree with you.
I always say that personal, youknow, professional problems are
actually personal problems.
Just wearing a fancy sport coat, right, like that's like the
reality of it, it's just alittle bit better looking attire
.
Yeah, as far as you know, therewas some really important

(58:45):
breakthrough that I had to havein my personal life to get to
the next level, right.
Whenever it was me just outknocking doors, it was, you know
I, you know I basically burntthe ships, right.
It was like there is no goingback to where I just left from,
not because I left bad, butbecause that was.
I knew what that life lookedlike and I was not interested in

(59:07):
continuing those my futureyears, right, so that the fear
of my life staying the same wasgreater than the unknown of
taking that leap to that nextopportunity.
And so for me, it was reallyrealizing there is no plan B,
like I have to figure this partout, and I was.

(59:28):
You know, I played a bunch ofsports in high school.
I love competition, but I hadalso had to realize like there
was a part of me that didn'tlike failing, like I actually
like didn't like failing, solike there were certain things I
wouldn't do, because if Ididn't know if I would be
successful at it, I didn't wantto try it.
And so I was okay with like notdoing something because the

(59:53):
fear of failure, right, andbecause of that, the fear of
failure really was like a fearof man too.
Like what are people going tosee?
What are they going to thinkabout me if I, you know, can't
do X, y and Z?
And so I had to be okay withfailing on a daily basis.
When you're knocking doors,right, like, like that's the
reality of it, like you're goingto have your teeth kicked it

(01:00:13):
several times in a day.
And so that was a part of methat had to be okay with.
Like to get to this next levelin my life.
Then I can see the future, Ican see the opportunity that I
have to be willing to let thatpart of me die right, like we
can't hold on to who we arecurrently, what we, what got us

(01:00:33):
here, isn't going to get usthere, right, and so having
those little milestone momentsof okay, this has been, okay,
I'm, I'm not really like a past,I don't really like looking
over my shoulder, I don't likelooking.
I'm thankful, I'm very blessedand I'm excited, but I want to
be in the present moment andthen I want to be in the future.

(01:00:55):
I want to enjoy where I'm at,but I also want to be goal
oriented and vision uh focused.
And so, you know, the the nextstage was, um, you know
different things.
Like I want to buy a home forour family and so, like I've got
to, like I got to do something,you know, I didn't want to pay
pmi, you know, and so I like I'deat 20 down and all those kind

(01:01:16):
of things.
And there was differentmilestones where, um, I had to
become a different person, I hadto become the next version.
And what really kind of helpedme there was seeing other people
, maybe not in the same industry, maybe not even, but I had seen
that like they had a differentlife than I had currently and

(01:01:40):
they were maybe, you know, alittle bit farther ahead, and so
I had really good mentorsthroughout different parts of my
life.
That's something that's reallyreally pivotal, I believe, is
I'm always having, I'm alwaysbeing mentored and I always am
mentoring somebody else,including people like outside of
the industry.
Like I've got several guys thatlive locally that I meet with

(01:02:03):
that are.
You know young, 20 year oldguys that you know, um, that I
want to invest my time in umbecause you know somebody else
did the same and I want to uh bea blessing to other folks.
And so you know there's goingto be different things that is
going to come up, that you'regoing to be faced with.
Um, you know you're going tohave to make a decision and
you're going to have to choosewhat version of yourself you

(01:02:26):
want to become.
And so you know there wasplenty of other opportunities,
like from a financialperspective, but I didn't want
to trade my values for money,and so, like, there was things
that I also had to make thedecision of.
I'm not, I'm not willing tosell my character for any, any
amount of money.
That's just not who I am.
Um, you know I mentioned that Ihave three wonderful boys and a

(01:02:46):
wife, and at the end of the day, like when I go home, I want to
be able to look them in theeyes and know that I did right,
uh, by them out in the worldthat day, and that I feel good
about saying, well, your dad,your husband, um, your husband,
your friend, did right today.
So those kinds of things arereally, really important.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
That's awesome, man.
I appreciate your time today.
This has been a greatconversation.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast
For more valuable content.
Visit roofingsuccesspodcastcomWhile there.
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(01:03:39):
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