Roofing’s Biggest Traps: Bad Leads, Denied Roofs, and Weak Culture with Jason Eustis

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
How do we create an atmosphere where those guys and
girls want to work here?
Because ultimately that's whatthe vulnerable is looking for is
a great install.
And so that in order to controlthat process, we had to create a
culture that people wanted towork here.
We see insurance companies hererecently where they deny roofs
that are only seven to ten yearsold because they're just dirty.

(00:20):
They don't actually have youknow the roofing knowledge to
go, hey, something's wrong withthat roof.
And so for us, we want to solvethat problem.
You're gonna have to spend awhole lot more marketing dollars
on your new brand or your newarea than you are on your legacy
account or where you've beenroofing.

SPEAKER_05 (00:34):
And so, what happens when a true roofing craftsman
partners with private equity anddoubles revenue from 30 million
to 60 million withoutcompromising on installation
quality?
In this episode, we sit downwith Jason Eustace to explore
what it really takes to scale aroofing company from old school

(00:54):
roots to elite operationalsophistication, all while
keeping craftsmanship at thecenter.
Jason is the president ofEustace Roofing, one of
Florida's most respected legacyroofing companies, and now a
regional hub for Vertex servicepartners.
With over 200 installers, a fullrepair division, and a service

(01:15):
mindset, Jason is proving thatroofing isn't just a
transaction, it's a long-termrelationship.
From treating every customerlike they're entering a marriage
to developing project managertraining that rivals sales
bootcamps, Jason's leadership isreshaping what white glove
service looks like in roofing.

(01:36):
This episode is packed withinsights on retention, training,
legacy marketing, and building abrand customers return to even a
decade later.
Let's dive in with JasonEustace, Eustace Roofing.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alean and I'm here tobring you insights from top
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your

(01:59):
roofing business.

SPEAKER_04 (02:02):
Jason Eustace, how's it going today, man?
Man, it's great.
It's beautiful here in Floridaand happy to be on the show.
I was just looking, man.

SPEAKER_05 (02:11):
It has been a while since we have spoken live on
air.
It's been since January of 2021,since your episode first aired.
Uh episode 30 of the RoofingSuccess Podcast.
So for people who haven't ordon't have exposure to Jason,
he's a little embarrassed aboutthis one because it was early.

(02:31):
It was early in his days of uhof getting uh getting out there
and and and uh you know I getgetting out there on video and
and social media and stuff likethat.
But uh I thought it wasfantastic, man.
So many gold nuggets in there.
What's been going on since uhJanuary of 2021?

SPEAKER_00 (02:52):
Yeah, I think a lot's changed, especially in the
roofing industry, especially forus.
Um, I know if anybody hasn'tgotten into what we've been up
to lately, we definitely joinedprivate equity and got into that
area and seen a tremendousgrowth.
Uh, a lot of good things thatcame from that and and still
are.
So that's kind of where we're atnow, which you're you're seeing

(03:13):
with most roofing companies thatuh got pretty large, just like
us, um, now have joined equity.
And I call it a partnership.
A lot of people always say,like, hey, there's a you guys
sold out.
Not at all.
Like I reinvested, and so stillhappy to be a part of Eustace.
And you know, the bigger picturefor us now is what we call
Vertex, which is the equitygroup we're a part of.

(03:33):
And how do we grow Vertex with28 other companies right now?
And how do we all shareinformation that we can all get
better?

SPEAKER_05 (03:42):
It's a fantastic uh, you know.
I've spoken, I know a few peoplein the vertex group, and it and
and man, it it's like you guysalmost have a mastermind of your
own, right?
Like with some of the ownersthat are in there.
It's like these are some of thesmartest people in the industry.
It's been a great, uh, I've seena great partnership be put
together in that in that regard.

(04:04):
That makes me think ofsomething, you know.
As you uh I don't know, I can'twhere where about where were you
guys maybe team and revenue-wiseback there in 2021, if you
remember.

SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
I think I think we were around probably 2021,
probably around 18 million.
Um, we got to 30 million beforewe partnered, and we're tracking
to to hit 60 is our goal now forEustace.
Okay.
And so we've had two newlocations open up, and we've
kind of created a hub forFlorida that comes through

(04:35):
Eustace to help the othercompanies.
A lot of great companies here inFlorida.
We've got one named Kairos inSouth Florida, really an amazing
company, difficult area to work,Miami Dade.
So we've learned a lot fromthem, to be honest, from code,
wind up lift, stuff like that.
And then we have another amazingcompany over in Tampa, which is
called Handyman Roofing.
And so it's been a greatexperience, honestly, for all of

(04:58):
us to team up, get to know eachother, work together.
Um, I've actually had jobs thatwe got that came from Tampa and
was able to work with Handymanon those and very, very quality
companies.
And that's what I love aboutthis group.
A lot of older companies, um,there's the handyman group is a
pretty old company.
Um, so they have that likeroofing part to them where

(05:19):
you're not seeing that a lotwith roofing companies.
You mostly see roofing companiesmore marketing and sales.
And I really love the trueroofers that that have the
centuries of ways of doing theart of roofing and like keeping
that growing.
And so that's a big part ofEustace.

SPEAKER_05 (05:36):
Yeah, you you've done a fantastic job of that.
We talked a lot about that uharound your team structure and
kind of running it like a NASCARteam with your background in in
that and in in the first episodeand and and and getting the team
firing on all cylinders for forblack better analogy, but like
uh, you know, what are some ofthose things that that let's

(06:01):
talk about your your structurefirst from a team perspective
and and what went into that froma thought process?
Like, how did you how did youinitially think about building
out an internal team, everyone'sin-house, um to how it's evolved
over time?

SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
Yeah, for me, you know, honestly working on the
roof and spending a lot ofnights helping the guys finish
up or or even spending days onthe roof made me really
appreciate the roofersthemselves and felt like that's
the biggest difference for thehomeowner.
And how do we create anatmosphere with those guys and
girls want to work here?
Because ultimately that's whatthe homeowner is looking for, is

(06:38):
a great install.
And so, the order to controlthat process, we had to create a
culture that people wanted towork here, and then we can kind
of pick and choose the A playersto install roofs, and a lot of
your problems within roofingcompanies start to go away when
you have really great peopleinstalling the roofs.
And so for me, I've alwayslooked at those guys as
athletes, those are the guys andgirls that are in the arena.

(07:00):
And how do we support thosepeople so they they can deliver
that product to the customers?
So, and then we built an officeteam uh later, like a management
team that gets in there andhelps out project managers, but
started with the crews andcreating an atmosphere where
they all wanted to work here inthis area.
And so when I first got here,there was only six people that
would install roofs and theywere very hard to come by.

(07:22):
And probably only one person onthe crew actually knew how to
install a roof.
The rest were there.
One would drive the trailer andone would tear off.
And so, you know, if somebodywas sick, it was a difficult day
for the customer for us to getthe roof installed.
And so for me, it's like, how dowe create a six-man group or
10-man group that are allroofers?
Make this process a lot morestreamlined.

(07:44):
And so that was my first focuswas on the install itself.
And then um later on startedproducing content that really
talked about that and really gotto the installers themselves.
And most of the time, peoplethink you're trying to get a
customer, and you are, but atthe end of the day, too, you're
trying to get through to thepeople that work with you, that
work alongside of you, thatinstall the roof, not just

(08:05):
sales.
So Eustace was built frominstallation side, not from the
sales side.
Private equity has brought thesales side to us.
That that's something that Ididn't have a lot of experience
in.
I was able to market pretty wellwith a low budget.
But my main um way of doingbusiness was how do we support
the installers?
How do we make sure that thoseare all a players?

(08:26):
Because that's what the customerwants the most is a really good
install.

SPEAKER_05 (08:31):
That's amazing.
So you starting with the thebuild, right?
Starting with a quality product,I mean, that grew you guys to 30
million.
So you there was some sales ofmarketing going on, you know, uh
at the same time.
Uh, you know, you know, ofcourse, you know me from many

(08:53):
years of the the best knownroofer stuff.
Like you have to, you know, thethe you could be you could
install the best roof, but if noone knows who you are, you guys
balance that in in a lot ofways, uh, whether you express
that or not.
And maybe it was maybe it wasthat you did such a good job
that you know people startpeople referred you a lot or
whatever that that formula was.

(09:15):
I think that's there's a fewchallenging things from the
labor perspective that I thinkpee a lot of contractors try to
avoid.
Before we carry on with theepisode, let's give a shout out
to one of our sponsors.
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(09:37):
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I think that's there's a fewchallenging things from the

(09:59):
labor perspective that I thinkpeople a lot of contractors try
to avoid.
They try to outsource, they tryto hit the easy button on that
subcontractor model, right?
It's it's I think that theythat's what a lot of it is, is
uh what's the easy button in ourbusinesses?
And and building a team, howmany what is your team of from

(10:20):
the installation side look liketoday?
How many people, how you know,team leads versus you know,
installers?
What what's the structure of itnow?

SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
I would say we probably have around 200
installers, um, somewhere closeto that.
Um it fluctuates a little bit.
We definitely have what what Ilike to say is, and we talked
about this before, is yeah uhwhen it comes to marketing and
drawing in customers and andteammates or employees, we we
kind of hit all different areas,and one of them would be uh the

(10:49):
repair division.
Like um for me, like we didn'talways have to sell a roof, but
we could maintain and helppeople that that didn't need a
roof, and I felt like that was abig help to us to actually
create consumers, you know, twoto five years out on the re-roof
side.
Um, and so really dove deep intothe repairs and maintaining
roofs.
And I think we had like 27 to 30repair technicians uh somewhere

(11:13):
in that realm.
And that's been huge on thecommercial side too.
So we can go in, we can maintaina roof, we can kind of find the
problematic areas, uh, keepthose from leaking.
And then when it comes time fora new roof, we're a key
candidate for that.
And we know that roof reallywell.
We know where the weak pointsare and how we can solve those
problems on a new build.
And really, when you're talkingto a customer, that's really

(11:34):
beneficial to them is to say,hey, this area's been leaking
really bad.
We've been here several times.
We recommend pulling some of thesiding out.
We're gonna fix it this way.
Where if it's a new competitorthat comes in, they're not
really gonna have a chance tounderstand the roof system
really well and where it's beenleaking.
And so we found a lot of benefitin that where we could solve
their problems.
But honestly, like I neverwanted to grow a roofing company

(11:55):
that didn't have the quality orthat we could actually maintain
the customers because to me,it's a marriage when you put a
roof on, it's a 15-yearmarriage.
So if they have any issues withthe roof, they're gonna be
calling you.
They spend a considerable amountof money to do it, and I want to
be able to service that.
And sometimes that's a warrantyissue that's our fault.
And I didn't want to grow areally big roofing company with
that and lose that part of it.

(12:17):
And so, always been big onrepair department.
And honestly, a lot of timesthey're out there in the field
with really nice vehicles, youknow, they're wrapped, the guys
are professional, and they'reactually producing leads
themselves.
People always say we see youeverywhere.
Well, typically they're gonnasee the repair department
driving around town, the crewsare parked on a job site.
You're not gonna see them asmuch.

(12:38):
So I believe it does a lot foryou as far as marketing.

SPEAKER_05 (12:42):
Yeah, definitely.
It's that I see you everywhere.
The truck's on the road, it'slike, oh my goodness, you're
you're all over the place.
But uh it it could it goes handin hand with what you're doing
on a day-to-day basis.
I think that that frictionlessmarketing, right?
It's not an extra effort forthat marketing, it's just what
you're doing on a day-to-daybasis, but also having the uh a

(13:06):
really good brand presence withyour trucks and your your
uniforms and your you know andall of the things that you do
that way.
I want to go into it a littlebit.
I think this is a big you cantell me if I'm wrong from the
contractors that you talk about,that long-term relationship with
the customer and that cut andthat home, that property, that

(13:28):
roof of that property seems tonot exist with most contractors.
The the relationship is in oneto two days and I'm gone.
Uh, I even hear that from a alot of like people that came

(13:48):
from the interior remodelingside, right?
Like that or or or the building,home building side, and that now
they have a roofing company,it's like, man, I don't have to
manage so many trades, I'm inand out quick.
Where, you know, it's kind ofthe allure of roofing is that
it's a it's it's quick, you'rein and out, your cash is back in
your pocket, unless you know,it's barring insurance claims

(14:11):
and things like that.
But like it's a pretty quickcash turnover.
There's a lot of advantages tothat.
What do you see in the industryand how is uh what's your
mindset around that?

SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Yeah, I think most companies are kind of built
around that.
There's uh one interaction withthe homeowner, they put the roof
and they're gone.
And I think that in Florida, weget those hurricanes.
Um, we get a lot of wind-blownrain, um, a lot of issues that
we can get here in Florida.
So for me, I feel like there's aconnection for that 15 years.
It's every time there's ahurricane, you know, you want

(14:43):
them to call you so you can walkand check the roof and make sure
they don't have any issues withthe roof.
You want to document it so youcan give that to them and their
insurance company.
So if there is an issue, you canprove that it was storm-related
and it wasn't just out of theblue.
Um, and then honestly, for us,we built uh a division where we
clean roofs because we can get alot of moss and mildew and stuff
like that on the roof.
So we come out and we cleanthose roofs, maintain those

(15:05):
roofs.
And then another big factor forus was the ugly roof uh
rejuvenation.
We spray roofs a lot.
So we're maintaining thoserelationships for over 15 years.
And honestly, we see insurancecompanies here recently where
they deny roofs that are onlyseven to 10 years old because
they're just dirty.
They don't actually have youknow the roofing knowledge to

(15:26):
go, hey, something's wrong withthat roof.
They just think it's bad becauseit's dirty.
And so for us, we want to solvethat problem because they're
telling the homeowner they haveto replace the roof.
Now, most roofing companieswould support that, would come
in and say, Yeah, you have toreplace the roof.
But for us, like we're actuallyprideful.
Like, we put that roof on seven,10 years ago, it looks amazing.
Like, we don't want to rip thatroof off, we want to maintain

(15:47):
that roof.
So we'll clean the roof and thenwe'll we'll turn it back in for
the insurance to look at it, andit'll change dramatically
because the roof is clean and itlooks new.
And and you know, a lot of timesthe people from the insurance
companies really don't have thatknowledge to see through that.
And so a simple cleaning willbring that roof back to life.
And honestly, too, if we haveto, we can rejuvenate it, and
that really does a bigdifference for the roof.

(16:07):
And so we've kind of likeentered into you know roof
repairs.
We went to maintain maintenance.
Um, we're doing cleanings andrejuvenation, and so any way
that we can to stay connected tothat homeowner because that
warranty was with us and withour manufacturer, and we want to
be the only ones walking thatroof to maintain it.

SPEAKER_05 (16:26):
That's a fantastic, fantastic journey there, or you
know, thought process on it.
What are what are some of thedisadvantages or struggles that
have come up in running thatmodel?
Before we carry on with theepisode, let's give a shout out
to one of our sponsors.
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(16:48):
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(17:09):
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(17:31):
What are some of thedisadvantages or struggles that
have come up in running thatmodel?

SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
Um, I would say disadvantages.
There's not always a huge, uh Iwould say, profit margin, some
of that.
Like some of that's justservice.
Um, honestly, one of thedisadvantages is when there's a
hurricane, you could have windblown rain that comes in a
window or it comes in a van andnever will do it again.
And you really don't have awarranty issue.

(17:59):
You have a one-off situation,and we're out there trying to
fix it.
We're not getting paid for that,you know, and so it's a free
service that we're out therebecause honestly, we want to
make sure that it actually isn'ta roof leak, that it actually
isn't caused by us.
And so why other competitors areout chasing new leads, we're out
there trying to service thecustomers that we've already
worked for, and that can reallyhinder you to take care of more

(18:20):
homeowners.
So that is the disadvantage.
I spend a lot of my time too,you know, going out to job sites
where we maybe put the roof on10 years ago, and it's something
odd in the siding or in thestucco crack, and it's not
really the roof, but we willchase it until we find it.
And sometimes we're fixingstucco and it really isn't a
roof issue, and and that's justpart of that service.

SPEAKER_05 (18:43):
Yeah.
So I that's the disadvantages.
What have been the advantages?
And now I would assume that youknow, now with private equity,
they love to measure everything,right?
Like there has to be a metricfor every single thing.
Have there been any metrics thatyou've gotten to implement or
measure that has shown thebenefits of running this model?

SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that there is no doubtthat there is a metric for
everything.
And that's one of the thingsthat made us really amazing from
the private equity side.
They've really brought a lot oftools to measure things.
Sometimes those tools can bemisleading.
And so that's why I like to likeplug in the experience, right?
Like, honestly, like I've seenthis happen in our space a ton
of times where people plugged inthe marketing side and the sales

(19:28):
side really well, but didn'tservice the customer right.
And then honestly, over time,those KPIs changed.
The close rates went down, butrealistically, it was because of
warranty calls and peopleweren't happy with them that
made that KPI change, and theythought it was their sales
department.
In reality, they just weren'tputting good roofs on.
And so for me, I like to makethose connections from the
experience.

(19:49):
And I feel like I'm a goodpartner with private equity
because I can do that, I canshow that.
Um, but KPI-wise, um it's our wehave like legacy numbers that
like uh people recommend us andstuff like that.
So we can measure those and wecan see that you know, a good
80% of our leads are comingthrough our legacy number or our
truck, our wraps, you know,stuff like that.

(20:11):
Um, and we can run that back.
And you can have different phonenumbers on your repair
department so that you can seeif it is coming back from
referrals, from repairs, stufflike that.
So KPI-wise, it's it's beenamazing.
However, you can get lost inKPIs.
And um, for me, like I said,it's for me, I try to connect
the the two together becausemarketing and sales, roofing,

(20:33):
people forget that you actuallyhave to install roofs in this
industry.
It's not just about sales.
And so I always try to be theguy that like brings that
awareness in that.

SPEAKER_05 (20:43):
So when you do the numbers there, like if that
that's crazy when you're talkingabout a$60 billion company,
right?
That from an 80% that 80%perspective coming in from that
legacy client perspective,that's$45,$50 million of revenue
that's coming in through thatthrough that uh that revenue

(21:06):
generation.
And and like people always I getinto these conversations all the
time, and and it it's like whatis what are some of the things
that lead to success in inroofing?
And and the first thing is thecare for the customer, and
that's your care of theinstallation process and the
quality installation and andtaking care of them from the
repair all the way through, youknow, the replacement, like that

(21:30):
that of all like that's a commonthread with all the people that
that I've interviewed and hadconversations with at different
conferences and things likethat.
But the other one, it's the themetric of it's it's the the the
contractors that are best atturning one into many are the
ones that win.
It's not the ones that have thebest Facebook ads campaign and

(21:52):
drive the most leads, it's theones that take that Facebook ads
campaign and now over timethey've created new customers,
they delivered an exceptionalcustomer experience, and then
they keep coming back orreferring them.
And to build 45, 50 milliondollars of that is kind of what
you did.
That doesn't happen overnightthough.

(22:14):
That sucks, Jason.
Why can't this happen overnight?
Like, can't I just go and buy mydatabase of custom like talk
about the evolution of that uhof your customer database over
time?
And you know, how I mean you'vebeen around for a long time now.
How how has this, you know, howhas it gone from those first,

(22:36):
you know, those first customersand and and then with the
intentionality that you guyshave had over the years into
what happens now?

SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
And I and from firsthandexperience when we started new
branches and new areas, I had tolearn how valuable that time was
and creating that.
Like because it was really,really hard to start up.
And so we didn't realize howgood we had it until we started
our new locations, our greenfields, how how well we were
connected to the community.

(23:06):
Um, starting new roofingcompanies in new areas is really
hard.
And we learned that as a as awhole in Vertex.
Um, we it's it's not easy.
Um, but what I can go back andsay is marketing has changed a
ton in roofing since the lasttime we talked.
Yeah.
So, you know, seven years ago Istarted making content and there
was nobody making content.
Now, today, everybody's makingcontent.

(23:27):
But what I can say is there'svery few that are making content
about problematic areas on theroof that are actually on the
roof talking about roofingissues.
And I think that can make youdifferent than most competitors.
I think a lot of people on theground pointing to the roof, how
we're the best because of theshingle or whatnot.
And honestly, what's gonna solvethe homeowner's problem is you
solving the problematic areas,what I would call dead valleys,

(23:50):
chimney flashing.
We're not seeing a ton ofknowledge in that.
And for me, I think that's thebest way to get to a customer is
to be the expert.
Like, and and honestly, likepeople will show up and they're
like, hey, Jason, he's in myhometown.
This is amazing.
I'm gonna use this company.
And over time, we've been ableto cultivate that.
Like, we're not just your localroofing company, like we're

(24:12):
helping people across thecountry.
Like, we're invested in this fora long term.
And so I think content haschanged.
I think that we used to investvery little in marketing, and I
think that's changed, definitelyhas changed.
I've seen, you know, for me, Iwas always like 1% and under our
revenue is what I'd invest, butthat definitely has changed, and
it's much harder to get in frontof the homeowner than in the

(24:34):
past.
And so roofing's changed a tonthere.
And it's really important to bethe first one to the homeowner.
So homeowners are making fasterdecisions than they were in the
past, and so you want to bethere in front of them before
anybody else.
Um, and then for us, we evenbuilt a call center that's
really effective at taking thecalls, tracking the KPIs, amount

(24:54):
of calls came, amount ofscheduling, amount of demo.
Like we can look at the wholescenario.
Um, and so it would be reallyhard for me to compete against
um what we've seen built here inthe last two years after joining
private equity.
So I I think they have a reallygood uh resources on the front
end of the business.

(25:15):
But for me, like I don't thinkanybody really has the tools on
the back end to really producethat roof.
And so for me, it was like, howdo we take the things that we're
learning on the sales size,sales side, and plug it into the
install?
And so we created a two-weekcourse where any new project
manager has to go through thatcourse as a class.
And so, you know, if you'relooking in equity or roofing

(25:36):
companies, they're creatingthose for the sales, but are
they creating those for you knowyour project managers and stuff
like that?
And so that's one of the waysthat I've been able to plug in.
And one of the things I respecta lot about Vertex is they want
that white glove service, theywant to transfer that to the
homeowner.
And I feel like you know,keeping some of these roofing
owners on or roofing umprofessionals, they can get some

(26:00):
of that knowledge and and notonly build the sales side, but
actually become a betterinstaller at the same time.
That makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_05 (26:09):
There's a lot, a lot, a lot that you just said
there.
Um let's start with because wewere talking about the the
development of a brand in amarket.
Let's go back to that first.
You you learned you didn'trealize how hard it would be
when you opened up a new market,right?
Because being in the market thatyou're in for so long, you just

(26:30):
kind of had that slow, steady,right?
Like you just did develop thatone handshake at a time, right?
Like just one, just you know,over time and over time and over
time, and being there and livingthere and and um how can or how
have you looked at now when wego and open a new branch, how
can we accelerate that uhpresence in the market?

(26:54):
How has that changed?
Can you take the content thatyou're creating and and just put
it in front of those people?
Can you take that that that thatthat educational content and re
reshoot it for uh you know thisarea or that area?
What what you know what are youwhat's the how do we accelerate

(27:17):
that now that you've you'vebuilt it, you've opened up the
new area, you saw thechallenges, how could someone
accelerate that?
I know you're enjoying theepisode, but let's give a shout
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(28:02):
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How do we accelerate that nowthat you've you've built it,

(28:22):
you've opened up the new area,you saw the challenges.
How could someone acceleratethat now that you've seen it?

SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
I think you have to have realistic goals.
And a lot of people wantovernight success.
And when it comes to marketingand getting your brand and
awareness, you have to plan on,you know, like for me, I would
plan on a three-year progressivewhere I want to go.
And content is great, you canput it in front of people.
That's always helpful.
But what I found works the bestis really plugging into

(28:50):
community events, and it's a biginvestment, too.
So you're gonna have to spend awhole lot more marketing dollars
on your new brand or your newarea than you are on your legacy
account or where you've beenroofing.
And so it's it's new forsomebody that hasn't invested a
lot, and it's hard to understandyou're gonna spend this kind of
money.
But if you look at it from athree to five year goal, it

(29:12):
makes more sense at that pointin time because you're gonna
reach those goals later.
So even with private equity,they want instant results, and
you're not typically going toget that in a new area.
You gotta, it's gonna take sometime.
So for me, um, we hired somebodythat goes to all the events and
sets up and meets new customers,you get a ton from that.
Um, we're part of the baseballteams or the softball teams.

(29:34):
A big one for me is um, youknow, obviously we're in
Florida, so the retirementcapital of the world.
And so they have like um youryour elderly play like some
softball.
And so that's been a big one forus where we get involved in
that, right?
Like all of those, you're justinvolved in many different
things instead of uh onespecific thing.
And I think marketing in generalhas changed where you have to be

(29:56):
involved in just abouteverything with your brand and
And so in the new areas, wespend a ton of time at community
events, Christmas parades, anykind of you know events that are
happening, but we show up reallywell, like professional.
We've seen roofing companiesjust show up with, you know, a
small tent and they really don'thave anything to give away or
anything that's impactful.
And for us, we got to show upreally well.

(30:18):
And for instance, in Orlando,um, we connected with all the
local radio stations and we didfree roof giveaways and we
helped people that were in need,and then we set up events there.
We had the police departmentthere, the fire department
there, getting support from thecity itself.
So you can't just show up toevents, you really got to push
hard and and figure out whatmakes you unique.

(30:38):
And honestly, too, we go back tothe repairs and the roof
cleaning and the roofmaintenance, all of that all
plugs in together along withyour content.
So it's multiple touches to thehomeowner.
I want to say like five touchestypically get you in front of
the homeowner.
So it's not just one thing, butit is really, really hard,
especially with private equityin the marketplace.
They're doing a really good jobreaching the customer before

(31:00):
you're a local roofer.

SPEAKER_05 (31:03):
What are the things that are most important in
those?
You you mentioned like the thingthat showing up professionally,
uh maybe giving things away,your offers at those events, uh,
the the awareness from a freeroof giveaway.
There's some things like thatthat I think uh you you kind of
mentioned are would you say thatthose are the most important
things from a brand perspective?
And then what else what elsefrom a trust perspective?

(31:27):
Because there's like seeing youeverywhere will will evoke
trust.
But you know, when you go into anew market, you have a new
Google business profile withzero reviews on it.
Like, how are you, you you know,what there's also a lack of
trust in that, also.
How are you how are you managingthat?

SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
Yeah, you try to bring the trust from your legacy
um where you're doing currentbusiness at.
So, like for us, we've beendoing this for 60 over 65 years.
So we're talking about that andthe content into the new area.
So we're not just a new roofer,we're just new to this area.
Um, and then as far as theGoogle goes, you're 100% right.
Like, we focused a lot intobuilding that foundation when it

(32:05):
comes to Google.
How do we get the most amount ofuh reviews that we can?
And we still do that everywherewe go today.
It's constantly, I think we meettwice a week on reviews, and how
do we get better reviews and howdo we do a better job?
Um, and so in new areas, we'reworking on that intentionally
right off the bat.
Like, even from the salespersonthat goes to the call, hey, can

(32:25):
you review me?
We haven't even done the roofyet, and we're asking for a
review, which is kind ofawkward.
But like if we did a good joband we talked you through it,
like it's okay to give us areview.
You can change it if you haveto, you know, if that's the if
that's the case.
So we're asking from the minutethat we meet the homeowner as
far as the sales, and then whenthe job's complete, we're asking
for it again.
Um, there's incentives there foreverybody that works here,

(32:47):
including the homeowner.
And I don't feel like you canreally get off the ground as a
new company without that firsthundred reviews.
I think it takes those firsthundred before you're really
solidified to the homeowner thatthey can trust you and they can
see people have been taken careof.
So to me, that is like thefoundation of a roofing company
because let's face it, roofingcompanies haven't done a good

(33:08):
job at that.
And it is really hard becauseit's major construction on
somebody's home.
And so you're gonna you're gonnahave nails, you're gonna have
maybe you uh affected the grassor the garden or whatever it may
be.
Like it's already a huge uhuphill battle for you as a
roofing contractor.
And so if you can get reallygood reviews and work really

(33:29):
hard at it, you're gonna setyour yourself apart instantly.
And then honestly, like I'veseen a lot of people, if you get
a bad review, like it's okay tomake some content around it and
how you fixed it, and then howdo you respond?
Like, we have bad reviews, andwe go and we do everything we
can to make it right for thecustomer.
And some people you just can'tmake happy.
You can see that in the review,and how do you respond?

(33:50):
And so we make sure that werespond to every review.
If there is a bad review, itdirectly comes to my email, and
then we're instant action.
How do we take care of this?
And integrity before profit is abig one.
So we're gonna go out there asmany times as we need to,
whatever we got to, whatever wehave to do to solve it for the
homeowner.
And a lot of times we can getthose changed because you know,
not everybody's gonna have agreat experience.

(34:12):
It's about what you do ifsomething goes wrong.
And for me, if you got a reallygood project manager and they're
building trust from thebeginning with the homeowner,
something goes wrong, theyshould be able to solve it.
You shouldn't try to build trustafter something goes wrong, for
sure.

SPEAKER_05 (34:27):
And setting the expectation, I think, that you
will solve the problem when orif something goes wrong, right?
This is construction, this isthis is a major project for your
home.
Like we will, if somethinghappens, here's here, talk to
your project manager.
I'm here to help you.
Let's get this solved.

(34:47):
A hundred reviews, minimum,everyone.
Minimum.
Stop it, stop with this.
I uh people don't leave me.
You got to get to a hundredminimum.
I I like to say, Jason, I liketo tell people to to Google
themselves in their area and setgoals based on the other Google
uh the other companies that showup near them, right?
And usually that first goal isthat three-figure mark, that

(35:11):
hundred, that hundred mark.
And then then there'll be, youknow, a couple of outliers that
are in the mid hundreds, three,five hundred reviews.
And then you get to some of thebig, bigger, bigger companies
who've just really beenaggressive with their review
collection.
And you know, there's a few overa thousand now.
And you know, boy, that feelslike a big gap if you're a newer

(35:33):
company.
But getting to that firsthundred and just at least having
that presence that you're you'reyou're you're you're playing on
the field, right?
You may be a rookie, but you'replaying on the field.
We're we're in the professionalgame now.
Um, let's talk a little bit moreabout your project management
course and training your team.
A lot of people, like you said,focus on that sales side, right?

(35:56):
Like we're it's there's anonboarding and training process
and ongoing training for thatsales team.
How do you develop a goodtraining program for the
installation side for yourproject managers and installers?
I know you're enjoying theepisode, but let's give a shout
out to another one of oursponsors.
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(36:20):
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(36:41):
page of the Roofing SuccessPodcast website.
How do you develop a goodtraining program for the
installation side for yourproject managers and installers?

SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
Yeah, it's a great question.
We're really proud of creatingthat.
What we found is typically Iwould take people that are on
the cruise and then I wouldbring them into the project
management side of things.
But that was not sustainable ona huge growth process.
Like you're not going to find asmany people as you're looking
for.
Um, and so we had to create acourse because we didn't want to

(37:17):
just talk really nice to thecustomer because you can give
them white glove service all daylong.
But if they have a roof leak,none of that applies at that
point.
So for me, it's a course on howdoes the process work?
How are we efficient?
How do we get all theinspections through?
How do we work together with ouroffice staff so that we can, you
know, inspect the roofs the sameday as we complete them?

(37:39):
But how do we support the guysand girls that are putting the
roofs on?
Like, how do we continue what Ihad originally started as a
project manager myself, youknow, surrounding that team
that's in the court, that'sproducing, that's playing the
game?
Like, how do we do that?
And so for me, we teach that inproject management.
And how do you support theseguys?
Which means sometimes once aweek, you're gonna stop and grab
them all lunch.

(37:59):
You're gonna get them Gatoradesfor the job site.
You're going to be there to helpthem.
And what I mean by that is likeif you have to deliver a bundle
of shingles, you put it on yourback and you carry it up the
ladder for them.
You don't just push it off thetruck.
Like, create that atmosphere,that culture of I'm here to
help, because they're not usedto that.
And that really drives theculture as far as a project
manager being a part of that.

(38:20):
So the other issue is you can'ttell people what to do or how to
help on the roof install if youdon't have the knowledge
yourself and they're not gonnarespect you.
So we built platforms ofchimneys and all kinds of
different angles that you'regonna run into on a house, like
vents, and we teach the projectmanagers how we want that
installed here at Eustace.
And then they can transfer thatout into the field.

(38:42):
I can't tell you how many timeswe had new installers come and
then we train the installers andthey said, I've been roofing for
20 years, no one's ever showedme how to install a roof.
And so that's shocking to me.
And I want our process to bedifferent and unique, and I want
to drive that into the installerthat we are unique, we are
different, we want to bequality.

(39:03):
And so the project manager playsa big part in that.
And so we're not only trainingthem how to talk to the
customer, which, you know,honestly are pretty common
sense.
Like first thing in the morning,you roll up, you talk to the
homeowner.
When you come back in theafternoon or in the middle of
the day, you talk to thehomeowner.
Anytime you're checking on thecrew, you need to check on the
homeowner.
And then the third time at theend of the day, check on the
homeowner.
So, you know, what we're seeingin in a lot of big roofing

(39:27):
companies is they do a reallygood job talking to the
homeowner.
They have zero knowledge for theroof, and then the roof fails,
and nobody's happy at thatpoint.
And so I want to be really goodat installing roofs, not just
talking to customers.
And so we make that a big partof uh of our class and why we do
what we do and some flashingdetails that we do and why it's

(39:47):
unique, and how this is thestandard for every job.
And you get less callbacks.
And I think at the end of theday, too, when your sales team
sees you doing this and they seeyou responding and taking care
of any bad reviews that theybelieve in what they're selling,
and then your KPI goes up.
That's why I say a lot of timesKPIs can be misleading, is
because if your team doesn'tbelieve in your project managers

(40:08):
and your install, you're gonnahave bad KPIs.
And so if we do a really goodjob with the project managers
and making sure the roof'sinstalled right, everybody wins
at the end of the day.
And that's honestly what thecustomer's paying for is a good
install and and holding theirhand along the process and and
meeting their concerns and whatthey need.

SPEAKER_05 (40:25):
I believe that your sales keep KPIs even get
affected by that, right?
Like the close rates of yoursalespeople will be affected if
they don't feel like you have agood installation process.
Yeah.
Because who's gonna get thecall, right?
Like if they get if theycontinue, if they get calls from
homeowners that are like, hey,you guys suck, they you you're

(40:49):
gonna see some conversion ratesgo down, right?
Um, it it's a crazy thing, butbut that that's such such an
important thing and holdingpeople to high standards.
Another metric that I wanted togo into you with was you guys
opened the uh started the callcenter.
The average roofing contractoris going to have someone
answering the phones, the owner,the office manager, someone in,

(41:11):
you know, someone's gonna beanswering the phones.
When you're looking from a like,what are you looking for from an
appointment set rate?
What are you looking at from,you know, like what are those
metrics that you're looking atthat the the average roofing
contractor can put into theirday-to-day to say, man, we're
doing the right thing on that,also.

SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
Yeah.
So I I want to say off the topof my head, I think we're
looking at a set rate above 50%.
So that means every call comesin.
Can we set the appointment?
Um, one of the things that isunique and and is different, and
I felt like I don't like this,but it actually ended up
working, is where you can getboth uh homeowners in the home.
That's a key that we foundworked really well to actually

(41:56):
closing the deal.
So we will reschedule too.
So if a salesperson shows up tothe house and it's just a
husband, hey, let me rescheduleso I can talk to both of you and
I'll come back Saturday.
Tell me what works the best foryou.
And so that's an area that we'vedone really well.
And I was not sure about that atthe beginning, and it's worked
really well.
Cancellations, we we measure howmany cancellations we get for

(42:19):
the sales appointments or ourcustomer calls back.
Um, we measure how long you'reon the phone, we measure where
the lead came from.
Um, there is a ton of metricsfrom the sales perspective on
the uh call center, um, and howthey contribute to to getting
that to the salesperson.
Um, and then we actually openedour hours where we're open a lot

(42:40):
longer, we're open weekendswhere we can take those calls.
And that's been a huge uhgameplay for us, uh, change.
And then honestly, how do wecreate where if we get hit by a
hurricane, we have power,electric, everything like that,
so that we can be the onlyroofing company that's actually
taking the calls.
Um we did a really good jobbuilding that call center out so
they can take the calls for allof the state of Florida.

(43:02):
So all our our other partnersare able to get appointments set
it from this call center righthere, centrally located.

SPEAKER_05 (43:11):
That's awesome.
And so those are good things tobe able to measure, like at
least just as starting points,right?
Like I think a lot of peoplewhen they're thinking about
their marketing efforts andthings like that, they don't
know they don't have a goodbenchmark to start with, right?
And the the that appointment setrate says something about the
the the person calling, the leadthat's coming in, maybe the

(43:33):
quality of lead that's comingin.
It also says something about thescript that you're using in your
appointment set, right?
And then the that tees up theappointment for the salesperson
and how much you know how wellthey're set up in it from an
expectations perspective whenthey get out there to do the
inspection.

(43:53):
And that like you can reallymeasure some really cool things
and just from a basic level,just have a like, okay, this is
at least we should be aroundhere, right?
And now we have a starting pointand and and where are we?
Something to measure.
Um, you know, we talked aboutthis before and it's come up a
couple of times, like you know,from our experience, go, you

(44:15):
know, with with uh with our jobnimbus acquisition and and you
with vertex man, go into privateequity, there's a whole lot of
numbers that they love, right?
They love numbers, privateequity, big companies, they love
metrics, they love numbers.
You you mentioned a couple ofthings, like the you know, the
the the two the all decisionmakers in the home or you know,

(44:36):
not running one-leggers is theyou know, whatever.
Um, you know, the what are someother metrics that were that
that started getting put intoplay during this process of
being, you know, now yourprivate equity.
We want you to measure this, wewant you to we want you to be
looking at that.
What are some of the other onesthat you're like, I never
thought of that?

(44:57):
That was a good one.
Like man, that what you know,wow.

SPEAKER_02 (45:02):
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give a shout out to another oneof our sponsors.
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SPEAKER_05 (45:35):
What are some of the other ones that you're like, I
never thought of that?
That was a good one.
Like man, that what yo, wow.

SPEAKER_00 (45:45):
Yeah, so I was so green to the sales side.
I was just so involved in theinstall.
Like a lot of good roofers arethey don't realize they're
losing a ton from the front end.
So um one of them is demo.
Like when you go to the house,like how many percentage of
people are actually there to buya roof or just get a price?
So if you demo, then we're gonnameasure that demo to close.

(46:06):
What's your close rate fromdemo?
What's your close rate from theinitial call?
So those are two totallydifferent things to measure.
Um, another thing that wemeasure a lot, and there's a
there's a a lot of people thatdisagree or agree with this, is
the NSLI.
Um, what is the NSLI and is ourmarketing dollars working to for
the sale?
Um, which again, like that canbe misleading too, because if

(46:30):
you're selling a ton of repairs,then your NSLI is gonna be off.
So you have to start to separateyour repairs and try to learn
from those KPIs and wherethey're getting affected from.
Um but a big one is you know,demo, how many times do you demo
versus the uh set rate?
And then how many, how what'sthe percentage of the close
rate?
And so we can now hold the salesteam accountable for every call

(46:52):
that they go to, starting fromthe contact center or the call
center.
Uh, and again, like I don'tthink roofers really understand
how important the training isfor the person taking the call
and how important the script isso that they understand what
you're doing.
And and then roofing knowledge,like, you know, like there's so
many opportunities we would havelost in the past.

(47:12):
And I can tell you, like, youwould get somebody from the the
call center that says, um, wedon't do concrete roofs, like,
well, we're cut, you know, youcan have tile that's concrete,
and so we lost those leads.
And so we had to really takesome time and train for that
position, um, and then createsome enthusiasm around getting
the appointment set.
Like, how do we get thatappointment set right there?

(47:34):
Everybody is involved in makingsure that our marketing dollars
gets us to the customer, andit's it's not always just for a
sale.
For me, I always run that sameanalogy for me, which is how do
we save homeowners from badroofers?
And in our industry, there's aton of bad roofers that it just
happens to be that way.
And so for me, if I can get infront of them, I feel like I'm
saving them.

(47:55):
So it's not just about a sale,you know.

SPEAKER_05 (47:59):
It's a it it is, and and that mindset, that's a
mindset, right?
There's a and that's a salesmindset that if you can instill
that in your team, that you arelike you have to go with us.
There becomes a confidence inthe sale, like there's a
confidence, it's a differentconversation, there's a

(48:20):
different tonality from thatsalesperson.
It's like, no, we we are notthis other company.
We the they are not like us,right?
Like this is this is not thesame, even though it says, you
know, GAF, you know, Timberline,H D, right?
Like it in this line item, we'renot the same.

(48:41):
Like, this is not the sameexperience.
This is not the same, you know,company.
Now you're not going to get themall, right?
The close rates are not 100.
We don't shoot for close ratesof 100.
Some people are not yourcustomer.
Just saying that out loud, whois not your customer at Eustace
Roofing?

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
Yeah.
So going back to the old schoolway of thinking, for me, it's
like everybody's my customer.
But when we measure things, westart to realize that we're
running these leads and we'relosing a ton of money and it
doesn't make sense.
So for us, like um, let's justsay a good example aluminum car
ports or aluminum roofs.
When we start asking the theright questions from the call

(49:24):
center, we can go, okay, thisisn't our customer, this is
somebody else, and here's who werecommend.
Where if if it would have beenthe old days, I would have ran
that lead because maybe there'san attachment to that roof that
has shingles on it.
And we can't just turn away.
We want, I want to get oneverybody's roof that I can get
on.
Um, but what we found is by thetime you pay all the expenses to

(49:44):
get them there, it's superexpensive, right?
Like you can lose up to 100grand a week running leads that
aren't your customer.
And then not only that, you'reyou're hurting the KPIs of the
salesperson that's running it,which is hurting their
self-esteem or their, you know,the way that they approach it,
which is hurting their paycheck.
And so sometimes you have todraw the line of what actually

(50:06):
is your customer.
For us, we're typically lookingfor the customer that really is
looking for the quality, theinstall being a quality install,
the 15-year relationship.
That's who we're looking for.
Um, and I hate to say this, butif you're looking for the
cheapest roofer, we're probablynot the person for you because
we're gonna use uh quality, youknow, products.

(50:27):
Just like everybody says, we'reactually going to do that.
And so um, you know, we havegreat financing for people that
aren't in that area yet.
Like we can finance roofs, anduh equity has brought really
good financing.
That's one of the biggest thingsI've seen and a smart way to do
that.
So if you can't afford it, wecan finance it to make sense.
Um, and we can get, you know,there's stuff out there that

(50:47):
that helps homeowners that arein need, we can approach that.
And um, so I think like you youhave to be super careful trying
to get on every roof because itif you start to measure it, it's
very, very expensive.
And what does it actually costyou to land at the homeowner's
house?
You know, and I think it'dsurprise people by the time you
pay the workers' comp, theinsurance, the liability,

(51:09):
everything that gets involved,it's a massive amount of money
to get to every customer'shouse.
And so if you're doing those andyou're just throwing them away,
it really starts to add up.
And so we want the call centerto go through that call to
really understand the homeowner,what they're looking for, and
what their roof is, what type itis, so that we can we can
eliminate that if they're notour customer from the call
center, so that we're notwasting the time of the

(51:30):
salesperson.

SPEAKER_05 (51:32):
Yeah, that's awesome.
There's so much there's so muchslipping through the cracks that
you don't we you just don't eventhink about it.
And and I I'm I'm sure that I'vebeen a hundred percent you know
uh guilty of letting things slipthrough the cracks over the
years in all of my businessesbased on the feeling that this

(51:55):
is the right thing to do, right?
Like, uh we'll go out there,we'll look at that carport, it's
fine, right?
We'll look at it, we we mightget a deal out of it.
We've uh you could tell yourselfa story.
Well, we got the the the theSmith House that one time,
three, six years ago, like wecan, you know, it happens, it
happens every now and then.
When you get into the data andyou start measuring things, that

(52:18):
data actually tells a story.
But like you'd mentioned acouple times too, the data can
lie too, right?
Like uh that old saying that uhyou know people lie, numbers
don't, is not true.
Like you, you know, numbers canlie also.
It's it's the the best, it'sit's the the the the question
that's being asked for thenumbers to show is what really

(52:42):
really comes down to it.
And you have to understand thethe the other things that are
touching that those numbers.
That salesperson's close ratecould be an effect of that,
right?
Like of setting that that thatthat uh that uh that appointment
for that carport, right?
Like there's so many things thatyou go, oh well they're their
close rate's down.

(53:02):
Well, yeah, but you sent them onthese on these bad appointments,
right?
Like so we all we we have tothat macro view of things.
I heard Dave Ramsey talk aboutthat with Alex uh Hormozy on an
interview uh where uh uh DaveDave Ramsey talked about how he,
you know, as an entrepreneur,like I just run through walls.

(53:23):
Like if I'm in a maze, if the ifbusiness is a maze and I need
and I can't find my way around,I'm going through or over.
Like I'm just going.
Where he he started hiringthese, you know, high-level
business executives, MBAs, andthings like that into his
business.
And they would they they have adip they'd step back and they

(53:44):
look down at the maze.
They go, no, no, Dave, take aright.
No, no, take all right, take aleft.
We should take a left here.
And so the what was really coolabout that interview, he talked
about how he had to teach theMBAs the scrappiness, right?
The the the that they werelooking too far away sometimes.
They were they were they weretoo far away from the problem,

(54:07):
and they taught him how to howto get far enough away from the
problem to actually you know geta good viewpoint of it.
Uh you know, you've now beencreating content for years now.
Now you got a show with Dimitri.
Yeah.
How what how did that comeabout?

(54:28):
What's the what's the premise ofthe show?
How do people find that?

SPEAKER_00 (54:31):
Yeah, um, Dimitri does a a show every Tuesday, and
so I'll jump on with him everynow and then.
It's super interesting becauseit's homeowners that either had
a bad experience, homeownersthat had a bad experience with
like their insurance company.
And then on the other side ofit, he'll interview contractors
that had bad homeowners.
And what's amazing is how manytimes that contractors actually

(54:55):
won in court cases uh becausethey had all the right documents
to prove that they were tryingto do the right thing.
Because not only are there badcontractors out there, but
there's bad homeowners.
And so what I like about it ishe's done both on his show, and
it kind of inspired me to standup to bad homeowners when we
have those and like you know, umbad actors in the industry too.

(55:18):
So um we've seen a ton on theshow of insurance companies that
tried to push claims away, andit really cost them a lot in the
end and not taking care of theirhomeowners.
So stuff like that, or umhomeowners that legit didn't get
good service from a roofingcontractor and have questions,
and we can kind of walk throughthat as professionals in that

(55:41):
industry and solve thoseproblems because if you look on
like Angie's list or anythingelse out there, like the number
one or two complaint is alwaysroofing contractors, and so kind
of tapping into that and helpinghomeowners that maybe had a bad
experience on like uh as far asprofessional, here's how we
would do that.
Um, and so kind of both sides ofthe aisle, and and I think it's

(56:01):
really, really interesting, andI and I like being a part of it.

SPEAKER_05 (56:04):
Yeah, the i I I love the frame of framing of that
because it's not always thecontractor, right?
And and it, you know, it's notalways the homeowner, but it but
there are times where it can be,you know.
Yes.
Um, you know, would you in a lotof these stories that you guys
have covered, what has been likethe biggest lesson that you've

(56:28):
taken away from all thesestories that you've covered, the
homeowners, the terriblehomeowners, or the terrible
contractors.
What are some of the lessonsthat you've taken from that?

SPEAKER_00 (56:38):
I think the number one lesson that I've learned,
which is I was saying a minuteago, is documentation, like
tracking and documentingeverything you do, because that
proves the story or helps in inthe court case.
And not only like for thecustomer, it helps too.
Like if they're documentingeverything and then they can
bring that to court, you have amuch better chance of proving
your story.
And that's the thing that I'velearned on there.

(57:00):
And and even for a contractor,if you're continuously trying to
make that homeowner happy andyou're documenting it and you're
going out there, you're gonna doreally well in court because
honestly, there's not a ton ofcontractors that are like that,
and you're gonna start to seethrough that homeowner that is
maybe just a difficult homeownerand just not gonna be happy.
So documenting everything isreally a big one for me, um, and
always doing the right thing,like never trying to cover

(57:22):
something up.
That's what we see a lot, likein the industry or insurance
side of things, where they likesend emails back and forth to
each other that are discoveredlater on where they're not doing
the right thing.
I promise you, overall, in theend, it's much cheaper to do the
right thing.
It's always cheaper to do theright thing.
And and and honestly, likethat's probably a huge thing

(57:44):
that I would tell people.
Um, if you messed up, don't tryto hide it.
Yeah, it just makes it worse.
Fix it.
And so that's something thatI've seen on these.

SPEAKER_05 (57:54):
Yeah, one of the I I did a lot of or a fair amount of
fix and flips post-crash, and uhhad a real estate attorney and
and got into a mediation with ageneral contractor that I hired.
I was or kind of they they weredoing most of the work, but um

(58:15):
themselves.
But uh and he was like after Italked to him about it, we're
like, um yeah, I got thisconflict with this contractor,
and he's like, you know why theycall them contractors?
Because they work on contracts,so make sure that your contracts
are well defined, make sure thatthe expectations are well
defined in your contracts, andthen document that you've done

(58:38):
the things correctly orincorrectly, right?
Like and and and so pictures isyou know, how do you feel about
that?
Or are you guys do you guysreally document your jobs well
with with with photographs,videos?
How do you guys do that?

SPEAKER_00 (58:54):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Here in Florida, like you don'thave a choice, like you have to.
So, like I would say typicallyevery job, we have 200 pictures
of it.
Like I that's one thing that Ifound unique when we're with
private equities looking intoother companies that are maybe
in Georgia or uh in the north,like where they're not going
through these inspections, theydon't have to go through all

(59:15):
these hoops, and it's a muchdifferent.
So, like they're gonna send youideas or things that work really
well, and they might not apply.
So, for us, like yes, every partof the process we have to take a
picture of or call an inspectionin on site.
Um, you know, they can come atthe beginning, middle, and end
of the job, and so you have topost those pictures there.
I mean, it is insane.

(59:36):
So we don't have any problemdocumenting jobs.
We've been uh doing that for fora long time.
So, but I do say, like,pictures, video, all of that
stuff is huge.

SPEAKER_05 (59:46):
Yeah, the that mediation that I showed up to,
like that we're trying to solveit.
I showed up with like 350pictures, and the the attorney
that was doing the mediationwalked in, and uh, like I was
like, All right, here you go.
And he was just he chopped.

unknown (01:00:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:01):
It was like it was the the the person the the
contractor that I was dealingwith, he had just come out of a
room with them and they just hadanecdotal stories.
And I had pictures of all of thethings, you know, details of
every single thing, picturesthat went with everything that I
you know thought was wasincorrect on that job.

(01:00:23):
And um yeah, documentation,document, um, and and set proper
expectations.
Yeah, I think that that's andthat's a big gap too, is if if
someone thinks that it's thisway, but it's really this way,
and there's that gap there,that's that that that will
always lead to to an issue.

(01:00:44):
So uh having a well-trained teamlike you're like you've been
talking about and doing that uhleads to a lot a lot of uh uh
less headaches over the years,right?
And do the right thing.
It's amazing.
It's amazing when you do theright thing.
Um where do you see the future,Jason?

(01:01:04):
What what's going on in theindustry?
How can a uh a roofingcontractors you know survive and
thrive over the coming years?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:15):
You know, for me where I see the future, one of
the biggest benefits here rightnow is you know, seeing roofing
change a lot.
And we started that process, butequity has really sped it fast
or sped it up, which is youknow, we have all the people
that work here have access tohealthcare where we didn't have
that in our industry before.
So affordable healthcare now atroofing companies, like that's

(01:01:36):
amazing.
We have 401 uh plans, 401k plansand retirement plans.
You can move up here and be aregional person.
I lost a lot of my team to theregional side of things, and so
we were able to um replace thosepeople with really good talent.
That's one of the things thatequity brings, is it's really
they're really good at findingtalent.

(01:01:56):
And as a matter of fact, yousaid something earlier about
Alex Ramosy and how um he wantedto run through walls.
And I think contractors in theroof industry need to get
smarter about this because Iwasn't, which is like uh with
with Vertex, they go out andthey find previous military guys
and girls that are really smartand they plug them in.
And like you said, they're notthey're they're they can be more

(01:02:19):
um directional and likeunderstand the KPIs and where
they're really smart people, butsometimes they need that person
like Alex, you know, there's agood combination there, yeah.
And so we found that to workreally well, but I think um the
industry is definitely sped upreally fast, and you're gonna
see more and more of that Amazonexperience, you know, like for

(01:02:40):
the customer, like it's areality now, it's happening
really fast.
Um, I can see that with us.
Uh, and and honestly, theexperience getting much better
for the customer.
And if you look at like for me,I used to to say that we were
six to eight months out when yousign a contract, and that's not
a great experience for anyhomeowner.
And we thought like that was agreat thing in the past, and now

(01:03:02):
that we realize it wasn't agreat thing, it was security for
me, uh, not for the homeowner.
And so now we're seeing, hey,you can you can sign a contract
and you can have your roofinstalled in a week.
And so very uncomfortablebecause the speed that we move
as far as like the quality isstill there, but we're able to
channel that through a lotfaster.
And I think the homeowner reallylikes that instead of waiting

(01:03:24):
six months or giving yourcompetition an opportunity to
take that job from you.
So your translation rate goesdown.
If you're gonna spend the amountof money that you have to spend
now on marketing, you're gonnawant to put that roof on a lot
quicker because you don't wantto lose it to your competition
because it costs you a lot toget to that doorstep.
So I see roofing changing a lotin those areas, becoming more

(01:03:46):
and more professional for sure.
And hopefully that translates tothe homeowner and getting a
better roof.
And that's our goal here.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:54):
Yeah, awesome, man.
Thanks for your time today.
This has been another episode ofthe Roofing Success Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:00):
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(01:04:23):
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