September 16, 2025 • 62 mins
Most roofers hire the wrong people.
They’re too quick to say “yes.”
And too slow to fire.
That’s what David Dees did at first. And it cost him MILLIONS.
But then… he fixed it.
In this episode, David shares how he went from supply rep at Beacon…
To building a roofing company that wins new construction, service work, and multifamily jobs — in under 4 years.
You’ll see:
✅ Why your hires can sink your company (fast)
✅ How to build a team that actually lasts
✅ What to do if you’ve hired the wrong person
✅ And why some builders FIRED him… and then came back later
This is a must-watch for anyone trying to build a real roofing company. Not just sell jobs.
It’s all about people, systems, and culture.
David shows how to hire right, fire fast, and build a team you’re proud of.
Links:
https://forceroofingsystems.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do you go from selling roofing supplies to
building a roofing company thatwins multifamily, new
construction and high-marginservice jobs all within four
years?
In this episode, we're talkingwith David Dees about what it
really takes to build aprofessional, well-diversified
roofing company from the groundup.
From starting Force Roofing in2021 to rebuilding trust after
(00:23):
hiring missteps, david shareshow to grow with intention,
leverage vendor partnerships andavoid the chaos that sinks
startups.
David is the founder of ForceRoofing Systems, a Middle
Tennessee-based company that'sbuilt a name on service
consistency and smartdiversification.
Drawing on a decade ofexperience with Beacon Supply,
(00:45):
he brings a unique perspectiveto product knowledge, project
management and businessdevelopment.
What makes David's story standout is his humility and honesty.
He has fired builders, rebuiltteams and turned mistakes into
growth.
Whether he's pricing repairs,nurturing builder relationships
or training project managers,david shows what it means to
(01:07):
play the long game in roofing.
If you're tired of chasingchaos and want a clear strategy
for scaling the right way, thisepisode is packed with lessons
you can implement today.
Let's dive in with David Deesfrom Force Roofing Systems.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here tobring you insights from top
(01:28):
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your
roofing business.
David Dees, how are you today?
I'm good, jim, good to see you.
Force Roofing Systems.
Man, we've known each other fora while now.
I've gotten to watch your wholejourney and this is it's fun
(01:53):
for me to do this.
I think we met you might'vebeen listening to the podcast
and reached out and years ago,right, and we started having
conversations and you wereasking questions, maybe about,
hey, what you know, who's goodto know around this topic or
that topic, and, um, you know,maybe a good sales coach or
maybe a good this or that, but,um, so we've gotten to know each
(02:22):
other over the years.
What?
Uh, tell everyone a little bitabout your story and how, how,
how force roofing came to be.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, I started on the supply side of the business,
worked at Beacon Roofing SupplyQXO now for nine and a half
years and built a really good,started my career there and
built a good foundation, reallyenjoyed the supply side of the
business and, you know, reallylearned a lot about product
(02:50):
knowledge, estimating, you know,learning about our customers,
different types of businesses,whether they were, you know,
production, turnkey roofer,restoration roofer, commercial,
residential, key roofer, uh,restoration roofer, commercial,
residential, uh I.
(03:11):
I just found it so fascinatingto, to, to you, meet with those
contractors, learn about theirbusiness and, uh, kind of you
know, see their niche, you know,and, um, you know, I, uh, I
guess April of 21 is when youknow we started force roofing
and you know just how.
Do you know it was one of thosetimes in my life where I was
(03:32):
very interested in doing theentrepreneur route and I needed
to do it before it was too late.
So we started force roofing andhere we are.
You need a four and a halfyears in and you know we've made
some success, we've had somelessons learned and we're still
(03:54):
trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, how was that?
You know, I mean that was a big, that was a big leap, a big
leap of faith that you maderight.
I mean you were you.
You were a regional manager forbeacon at the time, I think, if
I remember right, salesdirector.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, and so you had a sales team and, yeah,
helped them all grow theirbusiness and um, you know,
different, different markets sodifferent.
Decent corporate job yeah, yeah, paid the bills.
That was really.
It's a really good company towork for.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, they take care of their employees.
They, I, you know, I thinktraining is the number one thing
for them.
Every month there's some sortof vendor training.
That was, that was the perk,right, that's how I got to learn
the business.
You know, everything fromasphalt shingles to roof
coatings to single ply membranes, you know, you know, modified,
(04:50):
and that was a consistent base.
You know we were, we werehaving mandatory trainings all
the time.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So then, what, what, what wasin you that that?
That it was like man, I got, Igot, I got to do something on my
own here.
I got to leave this corporateenvironment, the steady paycheck
, and kind of make the leap intoentrepreneurship.
Where do you think that camefrom?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I'd say that I'm a competitor and I like to
compete, I like to see if I canbuild something.
I will say that, out of allthose years selling contractors,
I would remember leaving theiroffices, just really just
(05:39):
looking up to them going.
Man, I envy that guy, envy thatguy.
I, um, I think so highly of himor her, I, I, uh, and they're
really building something.
They're they're they'reproviding jobs for people.
They're they're building a, afoundation, they're they're
they're giving back to thecommunity and is is great as it
(06:03):
was to have a steady paycheckand benefits and all that stuff.
I never really did look up tomy leadership that way, and
don't take that the wrong way,of course I looked up to my
leadership and they're allwonderful, but I never did envy
them like I did.
A roofing contractor or anentrepreneur, you know, you
(06:27):
wanting to do something a littlebit bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, it's, it is.
There's a big difference thereand you know there's there's
people that are, you know,excellent, high quality people
in corporate leadership and youknow, you know executive
positions all over the.
You know many companies, butit's different when someone.
It's different to watch someonebuild something from like from
nothing.
(06:50):
Maybe that's part of it, Idon't know.
For me, like it's a, it's areally special thing in the to
take care of their families andtake care of their people and
and and watch something likethat You'd mentioned.
You got to see the niches.
As you were seeing, man, theseare storm restoration companies.
(07:12):
These are different commercial.
What, as you were making thatleap, how did you decide?
This is what force roofing isgoing to focus on.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, I'd say that my , you know, my goal was for.
That's kind of how you and Imet right, we wanted to come out
looking like a first-classorganization.
I didn't want to come outlooking like Chuck in the truck
with a magnet on my truck andyou know a website that you know
I did a tutorial on.
(07:42):
You know I wanted to, I wantedto make sure that I was, you
know, like having you withRoofing Marketers, build our
website, you know, really launchour SEO, help us try to get out
in the marketplace.
You know our niche is is being alocal service provider and you
know we we are a storm chaser,but you know we do multiple
(08:06):
types of roofing.
I guess that's because we can't, you know it's because we have
that knowledge.
But you know, on theresidential side we do
everything from repairs toretail roof replacements,
insurance, roof replacements,asphalt, shingles, metal.
We know how to kind of dissecta roof.
There's a lot of houses here inthe Middle Tennessee market
that will have three differenttypes of roof systems on there.
(08:29):
We don't have to call oursupplier and ask them to do the
takeoff for us or the materialis for us.
We kind of pride ourselves inthat.
So I guess our niche would be,you know, we kind of really want
to work for most folks that are, you know, people that are just
(08:49):
looking for a roofingcontractor.
And we have a diverse business.
We do new construction, so wework for production builders, we
work for custom home builders,we work for homeowners, property
management companies, generalcontractors.
We don't own the market by anymeans.
We have a lot of goodcompetition here, but we
(09:09):
definitely have, you know, beenable to build a brand that folks
can trust and count on, simplyjust for showing up and
answering the phone.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You know that's that's amazing how far that goes
.
Yeah, that goes a long ways.
So so, really, you'vediversified your roofing
business.
Within your roofing business,I've had a couple of contractors
that I've had on the show thatI feel have a similar model.
So what did you start with?
(09:40):
Because I know you startedadding things.
Did you start with everything,or did you start with?
Hey, we're just doing thisfirst.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I'd say that you know I always wanted to get into new
construction.
I did a lot of that when I wasat Beacon and learned a lot
about it, but that takes time.
That's more on the businessdevelopment side of stuff.
We started out, you know, justme in a truck, you know, going
around getting the word outusing social media platforms, me
(10:11):
going to insurance agentsasking to be a preferred vendor.
You know, started out justdoing residential re-roofs and
repairs.
Then I'd say it took about 12months and we finally got in
with some builders.
They gave us a chance and Iguess they knew my background
and understood that.
(10:32):
You know I wasn't just trying todo a one time sales, trying to
build a relationship.
So we started out there andthen we had our first big break
in commercial roofing, probablyabout year two out there.
And then we had our first bigbreak in commercial roof and
probably about year two and thatwas actually because of of you
(10:53):
guys at Ricker marketers and SEO.
We had multifamily listed onour website and we had a
customer call in and said, hey,would you be interested in
bidding this?
And of course we said yes andwe were fortunate enough to win
the work.
So that was, that was kind ofour you know now, now we do all
all their roofing, um, you know.
So I think we just kind of keepfalling into it a little bit.
But we, you know, we're outthere, it's on ground where
(11:16):
we're trying to talk toeverybody and, uh, to let them
know that we're roofingcontractor we want to work for.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, and that it's you know.
I guess having the priorknowledge of the roofing systems
probably helps right, like, andbeing able what do you think?
How much of an advantage did itgive you to be in so many
roofing businesses throughoutyour career on the on the
(11:46):
distribution side?
Like, do you think that thatgave you a different viewpoint
on things?
Did, and then you also got thelike, the roofing systems
knowledge you know, really,really you know from a high
level.
Yeah, now you're able tomaneuver in your business a
(12:06):
little bit easier.
What were some of those lessonsthat you saw from those other
companies?
You know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So you know, when you're working on the supply
side of the business, every roofis a little different.
And you know, I guess I wasalways curious and asked why are
we, you know, shipping?
You know, fully adhered TPSsystem on this structure versus
a mechanically fastened, and why?
(12:36):
You know, why do you installGAF versus certainty?
Or you know, just kind ofhaving those kinds of
conversations over the years andbeing really curious about you
know, just kind of having thosekinds of conversations over the
years and being really curiousabout you know, a lightweight
concrete deck versus a wood deckor a metal deck.
You know, and um, a taperedinsulation package.
You know what are theadvantages of that and how do
(12:56):
you do that.
You know, um, so I guess thatgave me some, some, some
advantages.
You know, with um, the, the,the lunch, and learns that the
vendors would do and I wouldencourage that to all the
contractors to attend all of thelunch and learns that you know
your local supply houses areputting on for you, whether it's
(13:18):
VLUX skylights or you know EPOtraining or asphalt shingle
training.
You know we always learnsomething every time we go, even
if we think we know it allEvery year.
The manufacturers are, you know,upgrading their products and
making changes and they'rekeeping up with the you know the
(13:40):
new way of roofing.
It's advanced, yeah, everydecade it keeps getting better
and better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've got to attend thoseclasses.
You've got to welcome them intoyour shop.
Yes, hey, if you want to bringvalue to me, let's not just go
to lunch why don't you come intoour office?
Let me bring my whole team inhere.
(14:01):
Let's do a lunch and learn.
Let's do a launch and learn.
Let's have a, you know, a moreintimate training session, if
you will.
You know, like, hey, tell me alittle bit more about this.
And yeah, I think that's kindof been part of our success.
How?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, what do contractors like what?
Yeah, that perspective, becauseI think this is a great topic
that I think I don't know ifI've ever had this conversation.
But what ways can you leverage,you know, your manufacturers,
your distribution partners tohelp grow your business?
Like those product knowledgesessions, bringing them in,
(14:39):
training the team, fantasticopportunities, and they're
always willing and they'll buyyou lunch and bring it to your
office a lot of times and know,like you know it's part of their
, you know it's part of whatthey do on a on a regular basis.
What, what are some otherthings that that, that a
contractor that they're notthinking about from the
contracting side?
(14:59):
They don't even know that thatman they'll come to my office
and do this or what you know I'dsay that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You know every one of your suppliers are hungry to
come into your office and seehow they can build value.
You know we have a badreputation in this industry.
Just send me a price sheet andI'll let you know.
You know it.
You know, when we talk to othervendors, suppliers or
manufacturers, you know we'resaying, obviously, price is
(15:29):
super important, but you know,this is kind of what we look for
in a distributor or in amanufacturer.
One of the things we love aboutGAF is that they really do put
the contractor first, and I'mnot promoting GAF, but it's just
that they really do put thecontractor first.
And I'm not promoting GAF, butit's just that they really do.
You know they have onlinetraining courses.
(15:49):
Their vendors are consistentlyon a monthly.
The manufacturer reps areconsistently on a monthly basis
trying to, you know, schedulemeetings with us and are asking
us what topics do we want tohear more about?
Asking us, what topics do wewant to hear more about.
So, yeah, no, it's superimportant that you know.
Maybe we say, hey, listen to asupplier, listen, we'd love to
(16:11):
have some education on VLUXSkylights.
Why is it a deck mount versus acurb mount, right?
Or you know which Skylights doyou stock versus which ones you
don't stock and what are theadvantages.
And just do a one hour lunchand learn with it.
With it, with a skylight vendorrep, or learn about your
competition, you could be a GAFmaster, elite.
(16:32):
And if Owens Corning certainty,even Tamco's coming in saying,
hey, we want to work with you tosay, look, I mean, we're
definitely open to have a lunchand learn, come in and educate
us on your product, and thatwill just only help you when you
go out and inspect that roof.
Or let's say you are workingwith a GC or a builder one day
(16:53):
and they're going to say, hey, Iunderstand you're a GAF
contractor, but we want you toinstall certainty.
Are you really going to missout on that business because
they have it specified?
So I guess just your vendors,your manufacturer reps, your
distributors are always wantingto work with you and they're
always wanting to add value, tobuild a relationship with you.
(17:14):
Let them know what you'relooking for and how you're
wanting to get better in yourbusiness.
They have resources and it'llreally help you out.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
What things are you looking for beyond just price?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Education is a big thing for us.
We really want productknowledge.
I want you to bring somethingto me that I don't know anything
about.
You know, and that could beanything from you know, hey,
we're not making this productthis year, or we've changed our
color options, or you know wewant to do.
(17:50):
We've got a new product cominginto the market and we're going
to have a training on it.
Gaf hosted an Xactimatetraining for the whole market
for us here in Middle Tennessee,and it's not just product
knowledge, right, it's likethere's so many different parts
to our business um, withestimating, project management,
(18:14):
sales training, um, it goes on.
And on accounting, financials,you know, I mean um it the list
goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, so when you're, you know, as, when you were
getting, you know, I guess whenyou're getting started, when you
got, I mean, you probably hadsome, some ideas in mind.
You know, I think I want towork with GAF and or something
like that.
But, like, what were some ofthe?
What were those considerationsthat you made?
Like you know, I want them tobe?
You know, the relationship withthe reps, I'm sure, is a, is a
(18:47):
big thing.
You know what are what, whatare those?
You know what.
What made you make certaindecisions versus others?
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(19:08):
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What made you make certaindecisions versus others?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Well, I guess because of my background I already had
some relationships with somevendors I kind of already knew.
But it you know it does boildown to I might like the folks
at OC and I like the folks atAtlas and CertainTeed and NGAF.
Right, you can like them, butyou know it's really.
(20:13):
You know how can, how can youhelp me get set up as a
certified contractor Now we'remaster elites.
How can you help me build mybusiness?
How can we work closer together?
And you know, if I call you andI need help with you know
(20:33):
sample boards or you know anykind of technical question, I
need to know who I can rely onto call.
And that was really the biggestdecision.
Yeah, for us.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And then so so with that, like I feel like that
Would you, they have a vestedinterest In you succeeding.
I think that that's the missedopportunity.
A lot of times people will gointo these relationships with
vendors in in a almost anadversarial relationship right,
(21:10):
where it's like I'm just tryingto beat them down on price, I'm
just trying to get the you know,but, but like if we're all
rolling in the same direction,right like they have a vested
interest in you succeeding andso so really take advantage of
those opportunities.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, at the end of the day, our job is to install
their product.
Right, that's right.
We want to move more product.
We want to install more oftheir products.
So how can we work together?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah.
So what has your journey beenfrom 2021 until now?
That first year, the secondyear, what were some of those
milestones that you hit?
The second year, what were someof those milestones that you
hit along the way and what weresome of the tough parts?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Oh man, it was tough, jim.
I'll say that the first twoyears were probably the hardest
two years of my life.
The stress I had no idea.
When I was on the supply sideof the business, I had no idea
what our contractors wentthrough.
I had no idea the stress theywent through with financials,
(22:14):
employee turnover, the latenight phone calls, the weekend
phone calls, the irate customersthat will just text you and
almost harass you because you'renot perfect.
And you know, whenever you'retearing off a roof it is a
demolition project and you'llget chewed out just for a twig
(22:36):
being snapped on a bush, youknow.
Or a small black scratch on apiece of concrete, you know,
milestones, wow, you know.
One of the good decisions I madeearly on was getting a drone to
help do inspections.
(22:56):
That helped me with my.
That helped me kind of move alittle quicker.
So we're with Loveland Dronesnow, but you know, know we were
with another vendor before theyuh, before they went under but
um or stopped.
But you know the drones, youknow, helped with.
That was a good decisionbecause it it was a safe way, uh
(23:18):
, an accurate way for us toinspect roost and what was so
great is that we were able toproduce a report, an inspection
report, with our logo on it.
It's extremely professional andsend that to the homeowner
really gave them a peace of mind.
You know, when we were able tostart working with some builders
after in year two, that was abig milestone, that was huge,
(23:43):
really kept us busy in 22, whichwas kind of a slower year, and
you know, then we started, youknow, kind of started getting
big enough to get some helpright, needed an office manager.
I was scared about hiring helpbecause, you know, I, you know I
(24:04):
guess your ego gets in the wayand you think you can carry all
the burden on your chest and youreally can't.
So I did make some bad hiringdecisions, but I've also made
very good hiring decisions thatjust outweigh the bad.
Right.
We still we have folks who'sbeen with us three and four
years now and we're so proud ofthat and now they are helping
(24:26):
folks on board and train them.
And now they are helping folkson board and train them, you
know, and so I guess people,people is is one of the best
things and helped us out themost in 2022, 2023.
It's all about culture.
If you have a great culture, ifyou have a good team and you
(24:50):
all are all communicating withone another and open with one
another, you can really besuccessful.
We're not a huge shop.
There's 23 of us at ForestRoofing and we, you know we
we're like.
You know the F in FORCE standsfor the FORCE family.
You know we keep, we'restarting to build tiers and you
(25:11):
know we have an estimatingdepartment, so now I'm not
having to do all the estimatinganymore.
That took a lot of money and wehave a strong sales team and we
have a great project managementgroup and a fantastic office
staff that you know really doget it and you know understand
customer service and accountspayable and receivables.
I'm kind of going off on atangent there.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's all right.
No, it is so.
You know, it really does comedown to the people a lot of
times and we do get scared ofhiring.
You know, along the way, whatwere some of the lessons you
learned around hiring orrecruiting the right people for
your team, you know?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I've heard it my whole life.
What do they say?
Fire fast and hire slow.
Mm hmm, I was the exactopposite.
I was getting so busy that Iwas hiring fast and firing way
too slow and because of that itcost me business.
I made some bad hires that theywere not a good fit for our
(26:18):
company, our culture.
They were extremelyunprofessional to customers,
snippy with them.
They would receive phone callsand then they would hit ignore
and then just text them back andjust horrible customer service,
the worst you've ever seen.
I'm going off on a tangent.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, that's right that this is the type of stuff,
though, Like you know, you'dsaid that then you ended up
leaving, Did you?
You let them stay too long.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I let them stay way too long.
I kept thinking that I couldmake them better.
I was like you know, if theycan just do 70% of it, or do it
as good as I can 70% of the time, then it'll be okay.
But that's not it.
That is not it.
They were bad for our culture.
They were bad for our customers.
(27:06):
They were even bad for our youknow our sales team, you know we
.
There was a lot of headache, alot of bad communication, but I
was just hiring so fast becausewe were growing so fast.
I just needed some bodies inthe air to help me and I one of
my biggest weaknesses is thatI'm impatient and I I was, you
(27:28):
know, ready to move.
And hey, we're past that now.
We've had our lessons learned.
One thing that we do now isthat we have three people
interview before we make ahiring decision.
Used to, it was just meinterviewing them and I really
do want to see the best ineverybody.
I really do want to see thebest in everybody.
(27:49):
I really do want to like,believe you, if you, if you put
this on your resume, if you tellme you did this, I really do
believe you, I, I, I, you know Iwant to see you be successful,
but that's the advantage ofhaving several people interview
them is that they'll askdifferent questions and, you
(28:10):
know, kind of see if they cannavigate the onboarding, I guess
, in a better way.
Yeah, hiring is something thatI really had to learn a lot
about, but that's you know.
When I was on the supply sideof the business man, I really I
was in sales, so I sold theproduct and I learned the
(28:33):
product.
I didn't really know that muchabout this part of the business,
right, so definitely.
The old saying is is fire fastand hire slow.
I would encourage everybody todo that.
But when you're in it andyou're, and you're in the thick
of it you your anxiety's to theroof, you're stressed, you need
help.
You, we sometimes will settle,you know, and, and that could
(28:56):
cost us business in the long runthat's just not worth it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
But I see that so many, so often, like people just
settle.
It's like I just need someoneto help.
Yeah, I just need someone tohelp.
And what I?
What I like that you said isyou're like because you hear
that that thing and it's anentrepreneurial kind of quote
that you know if they could doit.
You know 70, 80 percent as goodas you just fire them, go move.
(29:23):
But how do you, how do you, howdo you make that?
Not the case like how do you,how do you, how do you make that
?
Not the case Like how do youmake it?
How do you make?
How do you ensure?
Now, as you've gone throughthis, you know multiple times
and you're up to you know the 20something employees that you
have.
Now that you look at it, how doyou ensure that they're doing
(29:44):
100 percent, doing 100%, butmaybe, even if it's in a
different, maybe at a different,different process or a
different way than you do it,but they're still getting that
the same result.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
But, but I hate to say there's two things here.
One, you want to hire somebodywho's smarter than you, but
you're looking for I've gotestimators here that can dissect
a roof way better than I evercould, um, and we've got project
managers here.
There's been project managingand roofing for 10 and 15 years
(30:19):
and uh, then we also have some,some, some new folks to the
industry.
But those senior people can nowmentor the, the, the, the
inexperienced ones, and so you,you, you're going to have to pay
for.
You're going to, if you'reposting an ad for a project
(30:40):
manager and you're going to paythem forty five to sixty
thousand dollars a year, you'regoing to get up forty five,
sixty thousand dollar a yearemployee to $60,000 a year.
You're going to get a $45,000,$60,000 a year employee.
But if you pay for, you know,if you post an ad for and you
set your expectations and youmight have to increase that
salary up to the 80 to even 100,you know salary price range
(31:02):
you're going to get that levelof employee and I know not every
time, but you're really goingto get what you pay for.
And I've learned that.
I've tried to be cheap, triedto cut corners and at the end of
the day, it's cost me businessand it's cost me so much time,
(31:24):
so much of my time.
It just wasn't worth it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, why do you think we do that?
Because I think we do.
I think a lot of times,especially early on in hiring,
we're always trying to savemoney.
Yeah Right, Like it's like, ohno, why do you think we I don't
know man, why do you think we gothat route?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We're watching our P&Ls, we're watching, yeah, but
the thing is, if you want, ifyou hire some folks that can
help your jobs run smoother,help you by SOPs, identify, you
know, anything that's goingwrong, how can we get better?
And then implement thoseprocesses and procedures, your,
(32:10):
your business, is going to run10 times smoother.
It is.
You're not going to.
You know cause.
The thing is, you don't want tolook like a bag of ass out
there on the job, right?
You want to.
When you're out there doing ademolition job or I don't care
if you're roof loading on acommercial roof or you're
tearing off on a residential youwant.
You want to look like afirst-class organization.
I love the catch-all systemwhere safety cone and everything
(32:32):
.
Now, you know, you want to.
You don't want to just looklike a couple of random trucks
coming out there and and andjust tearing off like it's a
landscape crew.
You know, onsitesuperintendents.
You need to.
You need to, really, you know,have your processes in place and
have those jobs managedcorrectly.
But, but, but.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You price for a professional team like that, but
those people cost money, david.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
But put them in company vehicles and company
uniforms and they're on yourinsurance.
And then you know you want tobe able to provide benefits like
401ks and health insurance.
So you know, but you can't beafraid to put your margins where
you need them to be.
(33:21):
You know, obviously there'scontractors in our market that
sell higher than we do and theywin and then unfortunately, you
always hear about all the lowballers out there.
But you know you've really gotto.
You know, sell your service andyour warranty.
But how you price.
One thing we do a lot of thatdoes help us is service work.
(33:45):
Those margins are 60 to 80%.
Sometimes you can use leftovermaterials, stuff in your
warehouse, or you can.
You know there's a lot morerisk in a roof repair than a
full tear-off.
But what I mean by that is youknow, the roof repair.
(34:07):
You think you might have it,but sometimes you got to go back
out two or three times andthat's where it'll start costing
you money.
But selling that service work,one thing we do is we call it a
roof tune-up and every house wego to they might not need a full
roof replacement but we'll say,hey, look, we'd like to sell
you.
You know, talk to you about aroof tune up, and you know we're
(34:30):
going to come out, we're goingto, we're going to change all
the pipe boots, tack up anyloose lane shingles, anything,
fish mouthing, uh, check allyour flashings, uh, all your
penetrations.
And um, this service starts attwelve hundred dollars and what
it does?
It helps us build a customerfor life.
But that roof does.
But what we're doing is we'reextending the life of that roof.
(34:52):
Right, we're not up there, youknow, doing anything other than
preventing leaks from happeningin the next couple of years.
Because storms happen, right,and you want to make sure you
get the old change in your carright To keep it going.
Why not get a tune-up on yourroof?
And so that service work doeshelp with covering cost on
(35:12):
overhead.
But, um, but we've got to.
That's why we got to have adiverse business and boots on
ground.
We've got to.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
We got to keep selling, but yeah, and that's
service-based business as alead-in to, as a lead-in to
future business.
I think that's the.
I mean, it's been, I've beentalking about it for a long time
, but and people always ask methat are outside of the roofing
industry when I have aconversation, I'm like, yeah, a
(35:39):
lot of roofers don't do roofrepairs and they're like what,
what are you talking about?
Why would, why would a roofingcompany not do roofers?
That doesn't even.
It doesn't.
Even a homeowner can't evencomprehend it.
I can't either, right, and Iwas like, but it's, it's the
business model that you havesubcontractors, you know.
And then, and after I explainedthe business model, that, oh,
(36:01):
okay, maybe now I get it alittle bit, but my goodness, the
missed opportunity there.
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Speaker 1 (37:00):
why would a roofing company not do roofers?
That doesn't even.
It doesn't even a homeownercan't even comprehend it.
I can't either, right, and Iwas like but it's, it's the
business model that you havesubcontractors, you know.
And after I explain thebusiness model, that, oh OK,
maybe now I get it a little bit,but my goodness, the missed
(37:21):
opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Most of your crews will come out and do like team
out to do a repair for you, youknow.
So don't mistake the servicework.
From the repair work to theinstall work, those that's three
different types of jobs we canalways go out and do you know,
service work is morepreventative maintenance, got it
?
Yes, that's, that's good stuff,that's what you want.
To be in there like, hey, let's, let's, let's stop this from
(37:44):
even happening before it happens, because then you're going to
have interior damages, you'regoing to have a lot more than
just a little roof fix.
A repair work is when you knowyou have some shingles blown off
or a tree limb fell on yourroof, or you know whatever older
roof and they don't want toreplace it.
And then you've got the roofyou know installed.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
How have you gotten the?
I think service work is is verycommon in commercial.
Do you see it on the or are youguys selling it on the
residential side fairly well?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Also any, any.
Yeah, it's over five to sevenyears old.
You know, with the the, youknow the major storms that we
get.
You know, over the years we wedon't sell them all the time,
Don't get me wrong, there'sfolks that will object to it.
But I mean they can run theircredit card right there.
You know, check cash, whatever,it starts at $1,200 and it's a
(38:40):
pretty good deal to make surethat your roof isn't going to
leak, and you know we can helpextend that life.
So yeah, we're trying to sellmore service work on the
residential side.
You're going to get your HVACunit serviced every six months
or every year.
At least you do here in theSouth.
Why would you not get the restof your house checked?
(39:01):
So we've had some success withthat.
It's, you know, on thecommercial side it's really good
.
That's good work too.
But of course we come up to ahouse that has a bunch of pine,
straw and leaves in the valleysand you can see their gutters
get clogged up.
Why not?
Let's go ahead, get that takencare of, you don't?
You might not need a roofreplacement, but let's get
(39:22):
everything cleaned up for whenwe do have these heavy rains,
that everything will flow smoothand it and it's the opportunity
to make an impression.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I think is.
Is the the right like?
It's such an opportunity howhave you kind of formulated this
to make a great impression onthat homeowner during this
process, to make sure thatyou're you're who they call when
it's really time?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Like you say, there's a lot of contractors that won't
do repair or service work, sothat's kind of one of our niches
.
But we have marketing material.
It's on our website.
Our SEO is helping us with that.
We have a tryer.
That kind of shows some beforeand after photos and some
success.
And we also have weekly salesteam meetings and it's probably
(40:18):
talked about every week, if notevery other week, because we
have to encourage a lot ofservice work because it's how
we're going to stay in theirhome for the next five, 10 years
and then they'll give us a calland we've already had success.
(40:38):
We've had some small hail, we'vehad some high winds and we did
a roof tune up on a few housesand they called us and said we
need you to come out and inspectus just to see how how we're
looking after these storms.
And some of that's convertedinto, you know, roofs and some
of it has been okay.
You know it's just, it just,but you want to build that
(40:59):
customer for life.
You want to be known as a localservice provider.
If you are just a storm chaser,that's a great business model,
don't get me wrong.
But might not always makeeverybody feel that comfortable.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, and building that database, it's when the
storm happens.
How is that?
How has that happened over theyears for you?
Because every year, you justadd more people to the database.
Add more people to the database.
You know we're in 2025 now.
Add more people to the database.
You know we're in 2025 now.
Yeah, when a storm comesthrough, now you know how does
(41:32):
the phone ring versus you knowwhen you were getting getting
going.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah, well, it's totally different now.
I think you're the one thateducated me on that that.
Hey, look, we need six monthsto to really get this going for
you.
Uh, building, building you inthe platforms, right, and yeah,
helping you get to the top ofthe page and, uh, it's like,
it's like working out right.
You got to keep putting yourSEO, so longevity in the market
(41:57):
obviously does have something todo with it.
You know, and your brand andyour vehicles out there and the
phones ring a lot more now thanthey used to.
That's a lot better of a feeling.
But you know at first, you knowthat's.
That's one of the things ifyou're starting out, really,
really try to vet your marketingagency and your companies that
(42:21):
you are going to.
You're going to, you know, look, we're looking to hire because
they are expensive and they'revery intimidating, but I would
say that that was one of thebest decisions we made.
Yeah, the very beginning.
And you know, if you're notlaunching your company for a few
months, I would still encourageyou to go ahead and get with
your marketing agency to startbuilding that platform and that
(42:43):
Web site for you and runningthat SEO and your, your LSA and
PPC ads and everything that youcan, because you have a lot of
good competition out there, thattheir websites are already up
and running and that's one ofthe drivers for the phone calls.
But also you need to attend allof your you know local, you
(43:08):
know networking chapters.
You know there's BNI, there'sall types of referral-based
networking groups.
Hey, get in there with someother trade partners.
Try to find some tree servicecompanies, some painters, some
ciders, some masons, you know.
Work with them and get involvedin their network and that way
(43:29):
you guys can refer one anotherto work as well.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, how has that been?
Have you developed a lot ofthose relationships in the area?
Referral relationships withother providers?
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, we have now.
It obviously took time.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, if you need a homeinspector, you need a mason, you
need a painter, you need adecking guy, you know we, we
have that and obviously it tooka long time for us to to really
we wanted, if we're going torefer you, we want to make sure
that you're going to be one ofthe good ones.
(43:59):
But I mean one of my closest.
I got two really close friends.
One's a restoration guy mold,fire, water and the other guy is
just a remodeler.
We just send each othereverything.
At this point, I mean, it'sit's, you know it's.
It's as simple as hey, man,just come over here and get it
done, send me the invoice, um,and, and you know it's, it can
(44:19):
be anything from flashing insome curbs or it can.
You know, hey, he did a porchaddition and he just, you know
it's a small little six squareporch, but hey, we'll take it.
You know, if it's it, we wantto keep our guys busy.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, definitely, you know that sounds like you've
those relationships, and thenyou've built a lot of the
builder relationships on thatside too.
What are some things that youdid right or in some of the
lessons you've learned aroundbuilding those, building those
relationships with builders?
Yeah, with builders, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
I mean you're going to business development is a
totally different sell than likewhen you're going out there
then doing a door to door sell.
Right, you got to go in there,you got to be in there often.
You can't just go in there onetime and expect someone to hand
you over their portfolio ortheir, their book of business,
and then you also need to learnhow to talk to them by saying,
(45:13):
hey, listen, I understand youmight already have a roofing
contractor, um, but how can I beyour secondary?
What can I do to be a phonecall away when they are too busy
to show up for you?
And um, so I felt like I'vedone.
You know it's learning yourverbiage is learning how to you
know, kind of, be able to takethe rejection and know that.
(45:34):
Hey look, we're a youngercompany, I get it.
There's companies that havebeen doing turkey roofing here
for 20, 30 years.
They got a great name and theydo really good, but they can't
service everybody.
So you know I'm not trying toget the whole pie, I'm just
trying to get a piece of the pie.
You know one of the things I didwrong?
That goes back to the hiring.
(45:55):
I hired two project managersthat were not as experienced and
very unprofessional.
And when you bring on a builder, you've done everything you can
, you've said the right stuff inthe meetings, you've estimated
correctly, you've got all thevendor packets filled out,
(46:17):
you're ready to go.
If you can't service thatbusiness, it's over.
There is, no, there is.
You're going to get.
You know.
You're going to go through thepricing phases, you're going to
spend two, three weeksestimating all their houses, but
if you are not set up toservice that business, you are
in big trouble and it's over.
And they're, unfortunately,always going to remember that.
(46:39):
So I was fired by two largerbuilders here in the Middle
Tennessee market, worked reallyhard to bring those folks on and
because I made quick hiringdecisions just to take some
stuff off my plate, it ended upcosting me millions of dollars
(46:59):
in revenues.
Um, and that's been about a yearand a half ago one of the
builders is actually bringing uson board.
Um, we start back with them, uh, into this summer.
So we're super thankful.
We've rebuilt our, our staff.
So if that does happen to you,don't give up.
You got to keep looking.
Yes, you're not going to winevery game, so you need to be
(47:20):
able to.
You're going to say, hey, youknow what I'm humbled, you know
I I see where we screwed up.
I'm going to regroup with myteam.
I'm going to, I'm going to, youknow, rebuild this service
department and this productionteam, and then we're going to
let you know, we're going tocome back and and then one
builder unfortunately won't eventalk to us.
They've been scarred and itwasn't that horrible of an
(47:44):
experience, but it was still notthe best customer service.
So if you are going to startdoing this kind of work, you've
got to make sure that you havegood project managers, good
superintendents, and that theyknow how to communicate
professionally, because it isall about communication, it is.
You're going to get theinstalls done, that's fine, but
(48:04):
if you don't know how to jugglethe amount of communication that
comes from that, then you know.
So that was a tough lesson forme to learn and thankfully I
learned it and we're past that.
But uh, you know, it goes backto hiring the right people yeah,
I think there's a couple oflessons there.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
The first one is like , uh, I had a episode not too
long ago with uh, jake jonathancronstead, jay cron, and he
talked about um, he always putspeople as the last thing in his
like.
He has a hierarchy of seven P'sand people's the last one, and
the reason is because all of theother things have to be in
(48:47):
place for the people to executewell, and so if you don't have
your processes in place, you'renot able to handle that business
.
Now, all of a sudden, you'reputting your people in a bad
spot.
Sometimes it might be a badperson, who's not, but it was.
You know.
You're the process.
The communication process mayhave not been executed on well
(49:08):
or put together in a way thatthat they could have done that.
And so if you you know and Ithink about it from a sales
perspective too is like you knowyou're going to, if you're a
salesperson and the companydoesn't fulfill on the promises
that you are making, well, thatdoesn't feel good either, right,
(49:28):
like the that that havinghaving your ducks in a row
You're going to.
And the other thing you said isthat we made the mistake and
then we kept going back weacknowledged that we made this
mistake and that, hey, we hadthe wrong person, we didn't have
the right processes in place,we didn't have the right things
in place.
(49:48):
They're all just lessons, right, so it's all just okay.
What can I learn from this?
Now I move on and we rebuildthis area.
It's nice that someone is ableto give.
I learn from this.
Now I move on and we rebuildthis area.
It's nice that someone is ableto give you another chance and
some people are not, but that's,you know, that's the way it
goes.
From that perspective, though,like you said, like with these
(50:10):
relationships, this is recurringbusiness, so it's business
development versus sales.
You're, you know, differenttype of sale.
That's different type of sale,you know.
So I mean, I guess maybe youhad some, um, some, you know
what you did from the, from thedistribution side, was the same,
(50:30):
was a more similar sale, right,like a more similar sales
process.
Yeah, I know you're enjoyingthe episode, but let's give a
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Speaker 1 (51:08):
You did from the from the distribution side was the
same.
Was a more similar sale rightLike a more similar sales
process?
Yeah, more similar sale rightLike a more similar sales
process.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah, and it takes time.
You know, when you're on thesupply side of the business,
you're, you can't just walk inthere and to a owner or a
roofing company and say, hey,I'm, I'm, you know, buy from me.
You know, you've got to kind ofbuild that relationship and if
someone does buy from you thatquickly, that that's kind of a
red flag that might, you know,they might not pay their bills.
(51:37):
You want to, you want to have alittle bit of uh, hard to get I
guess, but uh, yes, it is aboutrelationships, it is about
being consistent, you're goingto about you're going to.
You know you're going to.
You know if you call a customer, I don't care if it's property
management or generalcontractors or builders or
(51:57):
whoever you're going after.
If you call them once every sixmonths, no one's ever going to
remember you, right?
You're not going to know whoyou are.
And if you just let them say,hey, we've already got a roofing
contractor, we're good, thankyou, don't come back.
And then you never go back,well, you're never going to earn
that business.
So you've got to kind of come upwith a you know, a, an approach
(52:18):
to where you know you're.
You're consistently.
You know touching them one wayor the other, whether it's
LinkedIn or emails, or you knowstopping by the office hey, I
was in the area wanting to sayhello to you.
You know, um, how are thingsgoing?
You never know when thatopportunity is going to be there
and if you only go in thereevery six months, you're going
to miss out.
So you got to stay consistentwith your.
(52:40):
You know your sales calls andyou know staying in touch, and
that's how you're going to besuccessful on that side of the
business You're going to-.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
How many?
When do you give up?
You're going to Right, likethere's a.
You know how many times do youreach out until they say no to
you?
So many times that you know youjust say all right, I guess
we're not the right company.
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
That's a tough one.
It really depends on how badlyyou want to work for them.
I guess we're all human beings.
So have I given up on you know,trying?
Absolutely have I.
Have I let it slip where Iforgot to follow up and it's
been four months?
Yeah, of course.
You know.
One of the things we starteddoing now is like we kind of
(53:25):
have a top five list You'regoing to, we want to work for,
and so we kind of make sure wegive them the most attention.
And then you know we kind ofyou're going to, you're going to
go from there.
But that's a good question.
I'm not a sales coach, I'm nota.
I'm not a, you know, think that.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I think the answer I love the answer of how much do
we want to work with them?
Right, there's the.
There's the book the UltimateSales Machine by Chet Holmes
that outlines the Dream 100strategy.
So if anyone listening hasn'tread that book, read it.
Audible.
Whatever you do, it's aboutbuilding those long-term
(54:08):
relationships in a B2B salesenvironment, business
development.
And the Dream 100 is hey, Iwant these are my dream 100
customers.
It could be five, it could be25, it could be 10, it could be
whatever it is to you, but Ilike the way that you framed it.
Oh, these are the five that wewant to work for.
(54:31):
These five, no matter, likewe're just gonna keep, we're
just gonna keep stepping up tothe plate until we, until we get
a hit like we're just gonnakeep going.
Now there are others.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
You might just say hey, let me give you an order,
so you go away that's right.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Like please, just you know.
And which is which is fine tooright, like you, just you just
gotta.
But but knowing you're gonnathink there's some
self-awareness there, right,like okay, okay, this is who we
are, this is who our best, ourperfect customer is right, our
builder, this builder is aperfect builder for us.
(55:07):
The way that we've developedand designed our company, man,
we can really serve them on ahigh level.
I could see it and going afterthat list and figuring out who
that person is, how did youdetermine which builders are the
best?
Are that top five for you?
Is it just that they're thebiggest builders in the area, or
(55:30):
is it that there's some otherfactors in there for you?
Speaker 3 (55:33):
No, we work for builders that build five houses
a year and some that build, youknow, seven, 800 a year.
You're going to, um, I think itkind of boils down to you know,
how are they?
I mean, how, how do they treatus when we say hello to them and
we come in, you know, and, andwhat type of houses they build?
(55:55):
Or you know buildings do theybuild?
Or you know, are they open tospeaking to somebody?
It's, that's a, that's a.
You know, that's a toughquestion because You're going to
know, we all, we always wantthe easy one, right, the one.
Eddie, come on in, yeah, I'lltalk to you, that's right.
You know, it's the ones thatyou know.
(56:17):
But we also have learned somehard lessons.
We've we've been hired by somefolks that that work good to
their trade partners, and youknow, I guess that just takes
some time.
We we've actually fired abuilder before and they weren't
a good fit for us.
And you know some of thesecompanies and you got to be
(56:38):
careful when you work for themand sometimes, unfortunately,
you won't always know until youalready are working for them.
But build your network of yourlocal.
You're going to, you knowfriends, you're in the roofing
business and ask around aboutthem, ask your supplier about
them, but sometimes they want tolook at you like you're a bank
(56:59):
and not pay you as quickly orhave different terms.
So you know that's what thatvendor packet is all about.
Make sure that when you arefilling out that vendor packet
or you're talking to, and itdon't matter what you know
builder, gc, property managerlook at those terms, make sure
they are going to be a goodpartner for you and make sure
they're going to pay their billson time.
(57:21):
That's a big thing.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
How do you ensure that they're paying their bills
on time?
Do you have certain protocolsthat you have put in place, or
is it Unfortunately, I've had tolearn some of those the hard
way.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
We've never been totally stiffed, I mean it.
You know, there there's been acouple of times where it's been
almost 90 days and had to goback and forth and stuff.
But, um, sometimes you can askyour suppliers to to see if they
, um, you know, know anybodywho's worked for him, or, you
(57:58):
know, sometimes you can also askfor credit references.
You know.
So, you know that's.
That's just some of the lessonsyou have to learn along the way
.
You're going to, you're goingto, you're going to.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
So early in the conversation you said that you
didn't understand the amount ofstressing contractor around.
You know managing that stressand kind of getting to the maybe
if there ever is another sideof it.
I don't know if there ever isanother side of it, but you know
how do you get through thattime.
Speaker 3 (58:49):
You're going to, you're going to, you're going to
, you're going to and I think weall would say, if we could do
it again, what we would dodifferently.
You're going to definitely giveyourself some grace.
You can't accomplish in one daywhat someone has in 20 years.
(59:10):
It's going to take time.
One thing that I probably wouldhave done differently would
have been I had a second phone.
You're going to use the samephone for everything, and nights
and weekends I never got abreak.
Every time our family would goon vacation.
(59:31):
It was nonstop work and I thinkthat's just the entrepreneur
life.
I know we all do that, butnever did take off.
Because if it's not a customer,it's an employee.
If it's not an employee, thenit's a supplier.
You know, whatever the case is,you got to also learn how to
(59:53):
handle that amount of pressureand you've got to remain, you
know, professional and in linethe whole time.
You can't lose your temper.
You can't fire back.
You've got to be professional,you've got to be level-headed.
You're going to, you're goingto.
You're going to, you're goingto, you're going to.
You're going to have to do itall yourself.
(01:00:14):
I know it's scary hiring,bringing folks on payroll, but
building that support system isgoing to help you be successful.
And if you need to take a fewmonths to write some SOPs and to
(01:00:37):
put some systems in place onhow you want it to be before you
bring on the right person,that's OK.
Take your time.
Don't rush and just hireanybody just because they're a
warm body.
You want to kind of take yourtime.
Remember that they'rerepresenting your brand when you
go out and they can hurt youand your reputation quickly, and
(01:01:02):
that's a risk that we all take.
But, and guess what?
It's OK to change those SOPsand make those processes better
as you go on.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
So that's what I'm saying bygive yourself some grace, you
know, don't, don't be so hard onyourself.
Kind of put your ideas down onhow project managers should
(01:01:23):
handle the job, or asuperintendent, or a sales rep,
whatever, and and then justsharpen the you know those,
those ideas as you go.
You're going to have somelessons learned.
It's not going to be perfect,it's it's, it's, it's going to
be.
You're going to have somelessons learned.
It's not going to be perfect,it's, it's, it's, it's going to
be.
You're going to have a newchallenge every day.
You're going to, as soon as youthink you had it, you know, put
together and everything wasperfect, a new obstacle will
(01:01:48):
will come up and, and you know,you're going to have to learn
how to overcome it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
They will always come , David Dees.
Appreciate your time, man.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast
For more valuable content.
Visit roofingsuccesspodcastcomWhile there.
Check out our sponsors forexclusive offers, shop for
merchandise and sign up for ournewsletter for industry updates
and tips.
Also join the Roofing SuccessFacebook group to connect with
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(01:02:23):
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe, like, share
and leave a comment.
Your support helps us continueto bring you top industry
insights.
The website link is in thedescription.
Thanks for listening.
How do you go from selling roofing supplies to
building a roofing company thatwins multifamily, new
construction and high-marginservice jobs all within four
years?
In this episode, we're talkingwith David Dees about what it
really takes to build aprofessional, well-diversified
roofing company from the groundup.
From starting Force Roofing in2021 to rebuilding trust after
(00:23):
hiring missteps, david shareshow to grow with intention,
leverage vendor partnerships andavoid the chaos that sinks
startups.
David is the founder of ForceRoofing Systems, a Middle
Tennessee-based company that'sbuilt a name on service
consistency and smartdiversification.
Drawing on a decade ofexperience with Beacon Supply,
(00:45):
he brings a unique perspectiveto product knowledge, project
management and businessdevelopment.
What makes David's story standout is his humility and honesty.
He has fired builders, rebuiltteams and turned mistakes into
growth.
Whether he's pricing repairs,nurturing builder relationships
or training project managers,david shows what it means to
(01:07):
play the long game in roofing.
If you're tired of chasingchaos and want a clear strategy
for scaling the right way, thisepisode is packed with lessons
you can implement today.
Let's dive in with David Deesfrom Force Roofing Systems.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast.
I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here tobring you insights from top
(01:28):
leaders in the roofing industryto help you grow and scale your
roofing business.
David Dees, how are you today?
I'm good, jim, good to see you.
Force Roofing Systems.
Man, we've known each other fora while now.
I've gotten to watch your wholejourney and this is it's fun
(01:53):
for me to do this.
I think we met you might'vebeen listening to the podcast
and reached out and years ago,right, and we started having
conversations and you wereasking questions, maybe about,
hey, what you know, who's goodto know around this topic or
that topic, and, um, you know,maybe a good sales coach or
maybe a good this or that, but,um, so we've gotten to know each
(02:22):
other over the years.
What?
Uh, tell everyone a little bitabout your story and how, how,
how force roofing came to be.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, I started on the supply side of the business,
worked at Beacon Roofing SupplyQXO now for nine and a half
years and built a really good,started my career there and
built a good foundation, reallyenjoyed the supply side of the
business and, you know, reallylearned a lot about product
(02:50):
knowledge, estimating, you know,learning about our customers,
different types of businesses,whether they were, you know,
production, turnkey roofer,restoration roofer, commercial,
residential, key roofer, uh,restoration roofer, commercial,
residential, uh I.
(03:11):
I just found it so fascinatingto, to, to you, meet with those
contractors, learn about theirbusiness and, uh, kind of you
know, see their niche, you know,and, um, you know, I, uh, I
guess April of 21 is when youknow we started force roofing
and you know just how.
Do you know it was one of thosetimes in my life where I was
(03:32):
very interested in doing theentrepreneur route and I needed
to do it before it was too late.
So we started force roofing andhere we are.
You need a four and a halfyears in and you know we've made
some success, we've had somelessons learned and we're still
(03:54):
trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, how was that?
You know, I mean that was a big, that was a big leap, a big
leap of faith that you maderight.
I mean you were you.
You were a regional manager forbeacon at the time, I think, if
I remember right, salesdirector.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah, and so you had a sales team and, yeah,
helped them all grow theirbusiness and um, you know,
different, different markets sodifferent.
Decent corporate job yeah, yeah, paid the bills.
That was really.
It's a really good company towork for.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, they take care of their employees.
They, I, you know, I thinktraining is the number one thing
for them.
Every month there's some sortof vendor training.
That was, that was the perk,right, that's how I got to learn
the business.
You know, everything fromasphalt shingles to roof
coatings to single ply membranes, you know, you know, modified,
(04:50):
and that was a consistent base.
You know we were, we werehaving mandatory trainings all
the time.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So then, what, what, what wasin you that that?
That it was like man, I got, Igot, I got to do something on my
own here.
I got to leave this corporateenvironment, the steady paycheck
, and kind of make the leap intoentrepreneurship.
Where do you think that camefrom?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I'd say that I'm a competitor and I like to
compete, I like to see if I canbuild something.
I will say that, out of allthose years selling contractors,
I would remember leaving theiroffices, just really just
(05:39):
looking up to them going.
Man, I envy that guy, envy thatguy.
I, um, I think so highly of himor her, I, I, uh, and they're
really building something.
They're they're they'reproviding jobs for people.
They're they're building a, afoundation, they're they're
they're giving back to thecommunity and is is great as it
(06:03):
was to have a steady paycheckand benefits and all that stuff.
I never really did look up tomy leadership that way, and
don't take that the wrong way,of course I looked up to my
leadership and they're allwonderful, but I never did envy
them like I did.
A roofing contractor or anentrepreneur, you know, you
(06:27):
wanting to do something a littlebit bigger than yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, it's, it is.
There's a big difference thereand you know there's there's
people that are, you know,excellent, high quality people
in corporate leadership and youknow, you know executive
positions all over the.
You know many companies, butit's different when someone.
It's different to watch someonebuild something from like from
nothing.
(06:50):
Maybe that's part of it, Idon't know.
For me, like it's a, it's areally special thing in the to
take care of their families andtake care of their people and
and and watch something likethat You'd mentioned.
You got to see the niches.
As you were seeing, man, theseare storm restoration companies.
(07:12):
These are different commercial.
What, as you were making thatleap, how did you decide?
This is what force roofing isgoing to focus on.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, I'd say that my , you know, my goal was for.
That's kind of how you and Imet right, we wanted to come out
looking like a first-classorganization.
I didn't want to come outlooking like Chuck in the truck
with a magnet on my truck andyou know a website that you know
I did a tutorial on.
(07:42):
You know I wanted to, I wantedto make sure that I was, you
know, like having you withRoofing Marketers, build our
website, you know, really launchour SEO, help us try to get out
in the marketplace.
You know our niche is is being alocal service provider and you
know we we are a storm chaser,but you know we do multiple
(08:06):
types of roofing.
I guess that's because we can't, you know it's because we have
that knowledge.
But you know, on theresidential side we do
everything from repairs toretail roof replacements,
insurance, roof replacements,asphalt, shingles, metal.
We know how to kind of dissecta roof.
There's a lot of houses here inthe Middle Tennessee market
that will have three differenttypes of roof systems on there.
(08:29):
We don't have to call oursupplier and ask them to do the
takeoff for us or the materialis for us.
We kind of pride ourselves inthat.
So I guess our niche would be,you know, we kind of really want
to work for most folks that are, you know, people that are just
(08:49):
looking for a roofingcontractor.
And we have a diverse business.
We do new construction, so wework for production builders, we
work for custom home builders,we work for homeowners, property
management companies, generalcontractors.
We don't own the market by anymeans.
We have a lot of goodcompetition here, but we
(09:09):
definitely have, you know, beenable to build a brand that folks
can trust and count on, simplyjust for showing up and
answering the phone.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You know that's that's amazing how far that goes
.
Yeah, that goes a long ways.
So so, really, you'vediversified your roofing
business.
Within your roofing business,I've had a couple of contractors
that I've had on the show thatI feel have a similar model.
So what did you start with?
(09:40):
Because I know you startedadding things.
Did you start with everything,or did you start with?
Hey, we're just doing thisfirst.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
I'd say that you know I always wanted to get into new
construction.
I did a lot of that when I wasat Beacon and learned a lot
about it, but that takes time.
That's more on the businessdevelopment side of stuff.
We started out, you know, justme in a truck, you know, going
around getting the word outusing social media platforms, me
(10:11):
going to insurance agentsasking to be a preferred vendor.
You know, started out justdoing residential re-roofs and
repairs.
Then I'd say it took about 12months and we finally got in
with some builders.
They gave us a chance and Iguess they knew my background
and understood that.
(10:32):
You know I wasn't just trying todo a one time sales, trying to
build a relationship.
So we started out there andthen we had our first big break
in commercial roofing, probablyabout year two out there.
And then we had our first bigbreak in commercial roof and
probably about year two and thatwas actually because of of you
(10:53):
guys at Ricker marketers and SEO.
We had multifamily listed onour website and we had a
customer call in and said, hey,would you be interested in
bidding this?
And of course we said yes andwe were fortunate enough to win
the work.
So that was, that was kind ofour you know now, now we do all
all their roofing, um, you know.
So I think we just kind of keepfalling into it a little bit.
But we, you know, we're outthere, it's on ground where
(11:16):
we're trying to talk toeverybody and, uh, to let them
know that we're roofingcontractor we want to work for.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, and that it's you know.
I guess having the priorknowledge of the roofing systems
probably helps right, like, andbeing able what do you think?
How much of an advantage did itgive you to be in so many
roofing businesses throughoutyour career on the on the
(11:46):
distribution side?
Like, do you think that thatgave you a different viewpoint
on things?
Did, and then you also got thelike, the roofing systems
knowledge you know, really,really you know from a high
level.
Yeah, now you're able tomaneuver in your business a
(12:06):
little bit easier.
What were some of those lessonsthat you saw from those other
companies?
You know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
So you know, when you're working on the supply
side of the business, every roofis a little different.
And you know, I guess I wasalways curious and asked why are
we, you know, shipping?
You know, fully adhered TPSsystem on this structure versus
a mechanically fastened, and why?
(12:36):
You know, why do you installGAF versus certainty?
Or you know, just kind ofhaving those kinds of
conversations over the years andbeing really curious about you
know, just kind of having thosekinds of conversations over the
years and being really curiousabout you know, a lightweight
concrete deck versus a wood deckor a metal deck.
You know, and um, a taperedinsulation package.
You know what are theadvantages of that and how do
(12:56):
you do that.
You know, um, so I guess thatgave me some, some, some
advantages.
You know, with um, the, the,the lunch, and learns that the
vendors would do and I wouldencourage that to all the
contractors to attend all of thelunch and learns that you know
your local supply houses areputting on for you, whether it's
(13:18):
VLUX skylights or you know EPOtraining or asphalt shingle
training.
You know we always learnsomething every time we go, even
if we think we know it allEvery year.
The manufacturers are, you know,upgrading their products and
making changes and they'rekeeping up with the you know the
(13:40):
new way of roofing.
It's advanced, yeah, everydecade it keeps getting better
and better.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You've got to attend thoseclasses.
You've got to welcome them intoyour shop.
Yes, hey, if you want to bringvalue to me, let's not just go
to lunch why don't you come intoour office?
Let me bring my whole team inhere.
(14:01):
Let's do a lunch and learn.
Let's do a launch and learn.
Let's have a, you know, a moreintimate training session, if
you will.
You know, like, hey, tell me alittle bit more about this.
And yeah, I think that's kindof been part of our success.
How?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, what do contractors like what?
Yeah, that perspective, becauseI think this is a great topic
that I think I don't know ifI've ever had this conversation.
But what ways can you leverage,you know, your manufacturers,
your distribution partners tohelp grow your business?
Like those product knowledgesessions, bringing them in,
(14:39):
training the team, fantasticopportunities, and they're
always willing and they'll buyyou lunch and bring it to your
office a lot of times and know,like you know it's part of their
, you know it's part of whatthey do on a on a regular basis.
What, what are some otherthings that that, that a
contractor that they're notthinking about from the
contracting side?
(14:59):
They don't even know that thatman they'll come to my office
and do this or what you know I'dsay that.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
You know every one of your suppliers are hungry to
come into your office and seehow they can build value.
You know we have a badreputation in this industry.
Just send me a price sheet andI'll let you know.
You know it.
You know, when we talk to othervendors, suppliers or
manufacturers, you know we'resaying, obviously, price is
(15:29):
super important, but you know,this is kind of what we look for
in a distributor or in amanufacturer.
One of the things we love aboutGAF is that they really do put
the contractor first, and I'mnot promoting GAF, but it's just
that they really do put thecontractor first.
And I'm not promoting GAF, butit's just that they really do.
You know they have onlinetraining courses.
(15:49):
Their vendors are consistentlyon a monthly.
The manufacturer reps areconsistently on a monthly basis
trying to, you know, schedulemeetings with us and are asking
us what topics do we want tohear more about?
Asking us, what topics do wewant to hear more about.
So, yeah, no, it's superimportant that you know.
Maybe we say, hey, listen to asupplier, listen, we'd love to
(16:11):
have some education on VLUXSkylights.
Why is it a deck mount versus acurb mount, right?
Or you know which Skylights doyou stock versus which ones you
don't stock and what are theadvantages.
And just do a one hour lunchand learn with it.
With it, with a skylight vendorrep, or learn about your
competition, you could be a GAFmaster, elite.
(16:32):
And if Owens Corning certainty,even Tamco's coming in saying,
hey, we want to work with you tosay, look, I mean, we're
definitely open to have a lunchand learn, come in and educate
us on your product, and thatwill just only help you when you
go out and inspect that roof.
Or let's say you are workingwith a GC or a builder one day
(16:53):
and they're going to say, hey, Iunderstand you're a GAF
contractor, but we want you toinstall certainty.
Are you really going to missout on that business because
they have it specified?
So I guess just your vendors,your manufacturer reps, your
distributors are always wantingto work with you and they're
always wanting to add value, tobuild a relationship with you.
(17:14):
Let them know what you'relooking for and how you're
wanting to get better in yourbusiness.
They have resources and it'llreally help you out.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
What things are you looking for beyond just price?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Education is a big thing for us.
We really want productknowledge.
I want you to bring somethingto me that I don't know anything
about.
You know, and that could beanything from you know, hey,
we're not making this productthis year, or we've changed our
color options, or you know wewant to do.
(17:50):
We've got a new product cominginto the market and we're going
to have a training on it.
Gaf hosted an Xactimatetraining for the whole market
for us here in Middle Tennessee,and it's not just product
knowledge, right, it's likethere's so many different parts
to our business um, withestimating, project management,
(18:14):
sales training, um, it goes on.
And on accounting, financials,you know, I mean um it the list
goes on and on.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, so when you're, you know, as, when you were
getting, you know, I guess whenyou're getting started, when you
got, I mean, you probably hadsome, some ideas in mind.
You know, I think I want towork with GAF and or something
like that.
But, like, what were some ofthe?
What were those considerationsthat you made?
Like you know, I want them tobe?
You know, the relationship withthe reps, I'm sure, is a, is a
(18:47):
big thing.
You know what are what, whatare those?
You know what.
What made you make certaindecisions versus others?
Before we carry on with theepisode, let's give a shout out
to one of our sponsors.
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they're not working hard, butbecause they're missing the
(19:08):
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(19:30):
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What made you make certaindecisions versus others?
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Well, I guess because of my background I already had
some relationships with somevendors I kind of already knew.
But it you know it does boildown to I might like the folks
at OC and I like the folks atAtlas and CertainTeed and NGAF.
Right, you can like them, butyou know it's really.
(20:13):
You know how can, how can youhelp me get set up as a
certified contractor Now we'remaster elites.
How can you help me build mybusiness?
How can we work closer together?
And you know, if I call you andI need help with you know
(20:33):
sample boards or you know anykind of technical question, I
need to know who I can rely onto call.
And that was really the biggestdecision.
Yeah, for us.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And then so so with that, like I feel like that
Would you, they have a vestedinterest In you succeeding.
I think that that's the missedopportunity.
A lot of times people will gointo these relationships with
vendors in in a almost anadversarial relationship right,
(21:10):
where it's like I'm just tryingto beat them down on price, I'm
just trying to get the you know,but, but like if we're all
rolling in the same direction,right like they have a vested
interest in you succeeding andso so really take advantage of
those opportunities.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, at the end of the day, our job is to install
their product.
Right, that's right.
We want to move more product.
We want to install more oftheir products.
So how can we work together?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah.
So what has your journey beenfrom 2021 until now?
That first year, the secondyear, what were some of those
milestones that you hit?
The second year, what were someof those milestones that you
hit along the way and what weresome of the tough parts?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Oh man, it was tough, jim.
I'll say that the first twoyears were probably the hardest
two years of my life.
The stress I had no idea.
When I was on the supply sideof the business, I had no idea
what our contractors wentthrough.
I had no idea the stress theywent through with financials,
(22:14):
employee turnover, the latenight phone calls, the weekend
phone calls, the irate customersthat will just text you and
almost harass you because you'renot perfect.
And you know, whenever you'retearing off a roof it is a
demolition project and you'llget chewed out just for a twig
(22:36):
being snapped on a bush, youknow.
Or a small black scratch on apiece of concrete, you know,
milestones, wow, you know.
One of the good decisions I madeearly on was getting a drone to
help do inspections.
(22:56):
That helped me with my.
That helped me kind of move alittle quicker.
So we're with Loveland Dronesnow, but you know, know we were
with another vendor before theyuh, before they went under but
um or stopped.
But you know the drones, youknow, helped with.
That was a good decisionbecause it it was a safe way, uh
(23:18):
, an accurate way for us toinspect roost and what was so
great is that we were able toproduce a report, an inspection
report, with our logo on it.
It's extremely professional andsend that to the homeowner
really gave them a peace of mind.
You know, when we were able tostart working with some builders
after in year two, that was abig milestone, that was huge,
(23:43):
really kept us busy in 22, whichwas kind of a slower year, and
you know, then we started, youknow, kind of started getting
big enough to get some helpright, needed an office manager.
I was scared about hiring helpbecause, you know, I, you know I
(24:04):
guess your ego gets in the wayand you think you can carry all
the burden on your chest and youreally can't.
So I did make some bad hiringdecisions, but I've also made
very good hiring decisions thatjust outweigh the bad.
Right.
We still we have folks who'sbeen with us three and four
years now and we're so proud ofthat and now they are helping
(24:26):
folks on board and train them.
And now they are helping folkson board and train them, you
know, and so I guess people,people is is one of the best
things and helped us out themost in 2022, 2023.
It's all about culture.
If you have a great culture, ifyou have a good team and you
(24:50):
all are all communicating withone another and open with one
another, you can really besuccessful.
We're not a huge shop.
There's 23 of us at ForestRoofing and we, you know we
we're like.
You know the F in FORCE standsfor the FORCE family.
You know we keep, we'restarting to build tiers and you
(25:11):
know we have an estimatingdepartment, so now I'm not
having to do all the estimatinganymore.
That took a lot of money and wehave a strong sales team and we
have a great project managementgroup and a fantastic office
staff that you know really doget it and you know understand
customer service and accountspayable and receivables.
I'm kind of going off on atangent there.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's all right.
No, it is so.
You know, it really does comedown to the people a lot of
times and we do get scared ofhiring.
You know, along the way, whatwere some of the lessons you
learned around hiring orrecruiting the right people for
your team, you know?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
I've heard it my whole life.
What do they say?
Fire fast and hire slow.
Mm hmm, I was the exactopposite.
I was getting so busy that Iwas hiring fast and firing way
too slow and because of that itcost me business.
I made some bad hires that theywere not a good fit for our
(26:18):
company, our culture.
They were extremelyunprofessional to customers,
snippy with them.
They would receive phone callsand then they would hit ignore
and then just text them back andjust horrible customer service,
the worst you've ever seen.
I'm going off on a tangent.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, that's right that this is the type of stuff,
though, Like you know, you'dsaid that then you ended up
leaving, Did you?
You let them stay too long.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I let them stay way too long.
I kept thinking that I couldmake them better.
I was like you know, if theycan just do 70% of it, or do it
as good as I can 70% of the time, then it'll be okay.
But that's not it.
That is not it.
They were bad for our culture.
They were bad for our customers.
(27:06):
They were even bad for our youknow our sales team, you know we
.
There was a lot of headache, alot of bad communication, but I
was just hiring so fast becausewe were growing so fast.
I just needed some bodies inthe air to help me and I one of
my biggest weaknesses is thatI'm impatient and I I was, you
(27:28):
know, ready to move.
And hey, we're past that now.
We've had our lessons learned.
One thing that we do now isthat we have three people
interview before we make ahiring decision.
Used to, it was just meinterviewing them and I really
do want to see the best ineverybody.
I really do want to see thebest in everybody.
(27:49):
I really do want to like,believe you, if you, if you put
this on your resume, if you tellme you did this, I really do
believe you, I, I, I, you know Iwant to see you be successful,
but that's the advantage ofhaving several people interview
them is that they'll askdifferent questions and, you
(28:10):
know, kind of see if they cannavigate the onboarding, I guess
, in a better way.
Yeah, hiring is something thatI really had to learn a lot
about, but that's you know.
When I was on the supply sideof the business man, I really I
was in sales, so I sold theproduct and I learned the
(28:33):
product.
I didn't really know that muchabout this part of the business,
right, so definitely.
The old saying is is fire fastand hire slow.
I would encourage everybody todo that.
But when you're in it andyou're, and you're in the thick
of it you your anxiety's to theroof, you're stressed, you need
help.
You, we sometimes will settle,you know, and, and that could
(28:56):
cost us business in the long runthat's just not worth it.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
But I see that so many, so often, like people just
settle.
It's like I just need someoneto help.
Yeah, I just need someone tohelp.
And what I?
What I like that you said isyou're like because you hear
that that thing and it's anentrepreneurial kind of quote
that you know if they could doit.
You know 70, 80 percent as goodas you just fire them, go move.
(29:23):
But how do you, how do you, howdo you make that?
Not the case like how do you,how do you, how do you make that
?
Not the case Like how do youmake it?
How do you make?
How do you ensure?
Now, as you've gone throughthis, you know multiple times
and you're up to you know the 20something employees that you
have.
Now that you look at it, how doyou ensure that they're doing
(29:44):
100 percent, doing 100%, butmaybe, even if it's in a
different, maybe at a different,different process or a
different way than you do it,but they're still getting that
the same result.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
But, but I hate to say there's two things here.
One, you want to hire somebodywho's smarter than you, but
you're looking for I've gotestimators here that can dissect
a roof way better than I evercould, um, and we've got project
managers here.
There's been project managingand roofing for 10 and 15 years
(30:19):
and uh, then we also have some,some, some new folks to the
industry.
But those senior people can nowmentor the, the, the, the
inexperienced ones, and so you,you, you're going to have to pay
for.
You're going to, if you'reposting an ad for a project
(30:40):
manager and you're going to paythem forty five to sixty
thousand dollars a year, you'regoing to get up forty five,
sixty thousand dollar a yearemployee to $60,000 a year.
You're going to get a $45,000,$60,000 a year employee.
But if you pay for, you know,if you post an ad for and you
set your expectations and youmight have to increase that
salary up to the 80 to even 100,you know salary price range
(31:02):
you're going to get that levelof employee and I know not every
time, but you're really goingto get what you pay for.
And I've learned that.
I've tried to be cheap, triedto cut corners and at the end of
the day, it's cost me businessand it's cost me so much time,
(31:24):
so much of my time.
It just wasn't worth it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, why do you think we do that?
Because I think we do.
I think a lot of times,especially early on in hiring,
we're always trying to savemoney.
Yeah Right, Like it's like, ohno, why do you think we I don't
know man, why do you think we gothat route?
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We're watching our P&Ls, we're watching, yeah, but
the thing is, if you want, ifyou hire some folks that can
help your jobs run smoother,help you by SOPs, identify, you
know, anything that's goingwrong, how can we get better?
And then implement thoseprocesses and procedures, your,
(32:10):
your business, is going to run10 times smoother.
It is.
You're not going to.
You know cause.
The thing is, you don't want tolook like a bag of ass out
there on the job, right?
You want to.
When you're out there doing ademolition job or I don't care
if you're roof loading on acommercial roof or you're
tearing off on a residential youwant.
You want to look like afirst-class organization.
I love the catch-all systemwhere safety cone and everything
(32:32):
.
Now, you know, you want to.
You don't want to just looklike a couple of random trucks
coming out there and and andjust tearing off like it's a
landscape crew.
You know, onsitesuperintendents.
You need to.
You need to, really, you know,have your processes in place and
have those jobs managedcorrectly.
But, but, but.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
You price for a professional team like that, but
those people cost money, david.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
But put them in company vehicles and company
uniforms and they're on yourinsurance.
And then you know you want tobe able to provide benefits like
401ks and health insurance.
So you know, but you can't beafraid to put your margins where
you need them to be.
(33:21):
You know, obviously there'scontractors in our market that
sell higher than we do and theywin and then unfortunately, you
always hear about all the lowballers out there.
But you know you've really gotto.
You know, sell your service andyour warranty.
But how you price.
One thing we do a lot of thatdoes help us is service work.
(33:45):
Those margins are 60 to 80%.
Sometimes you can use leftovermaterials, stuff in your
warehouse, or you can.
You know there's a lot morerisk in a roof repair than a
full tear-off.
But what I mean by that is youknow, the roof repair.
(34:07):
You think you might have it,but sometimes you got to go back
out two or three times andthat's where it'll start costing
you money.
But selling that service work,one thing we do is we call it a
roof tune-up and every house wego to they might not need a full
roof replacement but we'll say,hey, look, we'd like to sell
you.
You know, talk to you about aroof tune up, and you know we're
(34:30):
going to come out, we're goingto, we're going to change all
the pipe boots, tack up anyloose lane shingles, anything,
fish mouthing, uh, check allyour flashings, uh, all your
penetrations.
And um, this service starts attwelve hundred dollars and what
it does?
It helps us build a customerfor life.
But that roof does.
But what we're doing is we'reextending the life of that roof.
(34:52):
Right, we're not up there, youknow, doing anything other than
preventing leaks from happeningin the next couple of years.
Because storms happen, right,and you want to make sure you
get the old change in your carright To keep it going.
Why not get a tune-up on yourroof?
And so that service work doeshelp with covering cost on
(35:12):
overhead.
But, um, but we've got to.
That's why we got to have adiverse business and boots on
ground.
We've got to.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
We got to keep selling, but yeah, and that's
service-based business as alead-in to, as a lead-in to
future business.
I think that's the.
I mean, it's been, I've beentalking about it for a long time
, but and people always ask methat are outside of the roofing
industry when I have aconversation, I'm like, yeah, a
(35:39):
lot of roofers don't do roofrepairs and they're like what,
what are you talking about?
Why would, why would a roofingcompany not do roofers?
That doesn't even.
It doesn't.
Even a homeowner can't evencomprehend it.
I can't either, right, and Iwas like, but it's, it's the
business model that you havesubcontractors, you know.
And then, and after I explainedthe business model, that, oh,
(36:01):
okay, maybe now I get it alittle bit, but my goodness, the
missed opportunity there.
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Speaker 1 (37:00):
why would a roofing company not do roofers?
That doesn't even.
It doesn't even a homeownercan't even comprehend it.
I can't either, right, and Iwas like but it's, it's the
business model that you havesubcontractors, you know.
And after I explain thebusiness model, that, oh OK,
maybe now I get it a little bit,but my goodness, the missed
(37:21):
opportunity there.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Most of your crews will come out and do like team
out to do a repair for you, youknow.
So don't mistake the servicework.
From the repair work to theinstall work, those that's three
different types of jobs we canalways go out and do you know,
service work is morepreventative maintenance, got it
?
Yes, that's, that's good stuff,that's what you want.
To be in there like, hey, let's, let's, let's stop this from
(37:44):
even happening before it happens, because then you're going to
have interior damages, you'regoing to have a lot more than
just a little roof fix.
A repair work is when you knowyou have some shingles blown off
or a tree limb fell on yourroof, or you know whatever older
roof and they don't want toreplace it.
And then you've got the roofyou know installed.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
How have you gotten the?
I think service work is is verycommon in commercial.
Do you see it on the or are youguys selling it on the
residential side fairly well?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Also any, any.
Yeah, it's over five to sevenyears old.
You know, with the the, youknow the major storms that we
get.
You know, over the years we wedon't sell them all the time,
Don't get me wrong, there'sfolks that will object to it.
But I mean they can run theircredit card right there.
You know, check cash, whatever,it starts at $1,200 and it's a
(38:40):
pretty good deal to make surethat your roof isn't going to
leak, and you know we can helpextend that life.
So yeah, we're trying to sellmore service work on the
residential side.
You're going to get your HVACunit serviced every six months
or every year.
At least you do here in theSouth.
Why would you not get the restof your house checked?
(39:01):
So we've had some success withthat.
It's, you know, on thecommercial side it's really good
.
That's good work too.
But of course we come up to ahouse that has a bunch of pine,
straw and leaves in the valleysand you can see their gutters
get clogged up.
Why not?
Let's go ahead, get that takencare of, you don't?
You might not need a roofreplacement, but let's get
(39:22):
everything cleaned up for whenwe do have these heavy rains,
that everything will flow smoothand it and it's the opportunity
to make an impression.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I think is.
Is the the right like?
It's such an opportunity howhave you kind of formulated this
to make a great impression onthat homeowner during this
process, to make sure thatyou're you're who they call when
it's really time?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Like you say, there's a lot of contractors that won't
do repair or service work, sothat's kind of one of our niches
.
But we have marketing material.
It's on our website.
Our SEO is helping us with that.
We have a tryer.
That kind of shows some beforeand after photos and some
success.
And we also have weekly salesteam meetings and it's probably
(40:18):
talked about every week, if notevery other week, because we
have to encourage a lot ofservice work because it's how
we're going to stay in theirhome for the next five, 10 years
and then they'll give us a calland we've already had success.
(40:38):
We've had some small hail, we'vehad some high winds and we did
a roof tune up on a few housesand they called us and said we
need you to come out and inspectus just to see how how we're
looking after these storms.
And some of that's convertedinto, you know, roofs and some
of it has been okay.
You know it's just, it just,but you want to build that
(40:59):
customer for life.
You want to be known as a localservice provider.
If you are just a storm chaser,that's a great business model,
don't get me wrong.
But might not always makeeverybody feel that comfortable.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, and building that database, it's when the
storm happens.
How is that?
How has that happened over theyears for you?
Because every year, you justadd more people to the database.
Add more people to the database.
You know we're in 2025 now.
Add more people to the database.
You know we're in 2025 now.
Yeah, when a storm comesthrough, now you know how does
(41:32):
the phone ring versus you knowwhen you were getting getting
going.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Yeah, well, it's totally different now.
I think you're the one thateducated me on that that.
Hey, look, we need six monthsto to really get this going for
you.
Uh, building, building you inthe platforms, right, and yeah,
helping you get to the top ofthe page and, uh, it's like,
it's like working out right.
You got to keep putting yourSEO, so longevity in the market
(41:57):
obviously does have something todo with it.
You know, and your brand andyour vehicles out there and the
phones ring a lot more now thanthey used to.
That's a lot better of a feeling.
But you know at first, you knowthat's.
That's one of the things ifyou're starting out, really,
really try to vet your marketingagency and your companies that
(42:21):
you are going to.
You're going to, you know, look, we're looking to hire because
they are expensive and they'revery intimidating, but I would
say that that was one of thebest decisions we made.
Yeah, the very beginning.
And you know, if you're notlaunching your company for a few
months, I would still encourageyou to go ahead and get with
your marketing agency to startbuilding that platform and that
(42:43):
Web site for you and runningthat SEO and your, your LSA and
PPC ads and everything that youcan, because you have a lot of
good competition out there, thattheir websites are already up
and running and that's one ofthe drivers for the phone calls.
But also you need to attend allof your you know local, you
(43:08):
know networking chapters.
You know there's BNI, there'sall types of referral-based
networking groups.
Hey, get in there with someother trade partners.
Try to find some tree servicecompanies, some painters, some
ciders, some masons, you know.
Work with them and get involvedin their network and that way
(43:29):
you guys can refer one anotherto work as well.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah, how has that been?
Have you developed a lot ofthose relationships in the area?
Referral relationships withother providers?
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, we have now.
It obviously took time.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, if you need a homeinspector, you need a mason, you
need a painter, you need adecking guy, you know we, we
have that and obviously it tooka long time for us to to really
we wanted, if we're going torefer you, we want to make sure
that you're going to be one ofthe good ones.
(43:59):
But I mean one of my closest.
I got two really close friends.
One's a restoration guy mold,fire, water and the other guy is
just a remodeler.
We just send each othereverything.
At this point, I mean, it'sit's, you know it's.
It's as simple as hey, man,just come over here and get it
done, send me the invoice, um,and, and you know it's, it can
(44:19):
be anything from flashing insome curbs or it can.
You know, hey, he did a porchaddition and he just, you know
it's a small little six squareporch, but hey, we'll take it.
You know, if it's it, we wantto keep our guys busy.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, definitely, you know that sounds like you've
those relationships, and thenyou've built a lot of the
builder relationships on thatside too.
What are some things that youdid right or in some of the
lessons you've learned aroundbuilding those, building those
relationships with builders?
Yeah, with builders, yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
I mean you're going to business development is a
totally different sell than likewhen you're going out there
then doing a door to door sell.
Right, you got to go in there,you got to be in there often.
You can't just go in there onetime and expect someone to hand
you over their portfolio ortheir, their book of business,
and then you also need to learnhow to talk to them by saying,
(45:13):
hey, listen, I understand youmight already have a roofing
contractor, um, but how can I beyour secondary?
What can I do to be a phonecall away when they are too busy
to show up for you?
And um, so I felt like I'vedone.
You know it's learning yourverbiage is learning how to you
know, kind of, be able to takethe rejection and know that.
(45:34):
Hey look, we're a youngercompany, I get it.
There's companies that havebeen doing turkey roofing here
for 20, 30 years.
They got a great name and theydo really good, but they can't
service everybody.
So you know I'm not trying toget the whole pie, I'm just
trying to get a piece of the pie.
You know one of the things I didwrong?
That goes back to the hiring.
(45:55):
I hired two project managersthat were not as experienced and
very unprofessional.
And when you bring on a builder, you've done everything you can
, you've said the right stuff inthe meetings, you've estimated
correctly, you've got all thevendor packets filled out,
(46:17):
you're ready to go.
If you can't service thatbusiness, it's over.
There is, no, there is.
You're going to get.
You know.
You're going to go through thepricing phases, you're going to
spend two, three weeksestimating all their houses, but
if you are not set up toservice that business, you are
in big trouble and it's over.
And they're, unfortunately,always going to remember that.
(46:39):
So I was fired by two largerbuilders here in the Middle
Tennessee market, worked reallyhard to bring those folks on and
because I made quick hiringdecisions just to take some
stuff off my plate, it ended upcosting me millions of dollars
(46:59):
in revenues.
Um, and that's been about a yearand a half ago one of the
builders is actually bringing uson board.
Um, we start back with them, uh, into this summer.
So we're super thankful.
We've rebuilt our, our staff.
So if that does happen to you,don't give up.
You got to keep looking.
Yes, you're not going to winevery game, so you need to be
(47:20):
able to.
You're going to say, hey, youknow what I'm humbled, you know
I I see where we screwed up.
I'm going to regroup with myteam.
I'm going to, I'm going to, youknow, rebuild this service
department and this productionteam, and then we're going to
let you know, we're going tocome back and and then one
builder unfortunately won't eventalk to us.
They've been scarred and itwasn't that horrible of an
(47:44):
experience, but it was still notthe best customer service.
So if you are going to startdoing this kind of work, you've
got to make sure that you havegood project managers, good
superintendents, and that theyknow how to communicate
professionally, because it isall about communication, it is.
You're going to get theinstalls done, that's fine, but
(48:04):
if you don't know how to jugglethe amount of communication that
comes from that, then you know.
So that was a tough lesson forme to learn and thankfully I
learned it and we're past that.
But uh, you know, it goes backto hiring the right people yeah,
I think there's a couple oflessons there.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
The first one is like , uh, I had a episode not too
long ago with uh, jake jonathancronstead, jay cron, and he
talked about um, he always putspeople as the last thing in his
like.
He has a hierarchy of seven P'sand people's the last one, and
the reason is because all of theother things have to be in
(48:47):
place for the people to executewell, and so if you don't have
your processes in place, you'renot able to handle that business
.
Now, all of a sudden, you'reputting your people in a bad
spot.
Sometimes it might be a badperson, who's not, but it was.
You know.
You're the process.
The communication process mayhave not been executed on well
(49:08):
or put together in a way thatthat they could have done that.
And so if you you know and Ithink about it from a sales
perspective too is like you knowyou're going to, if you're a
salesperson and the companydoesn't fulfill on the promises
that you are making, well, thatdoesn't feel good either, right,
(49:28):
like the that that havinghaving your ducks in a row
You're going to.
And the other thing you said isthat we made the mistake and
then we kept going back weacknowledged that we made this
mistake and that, hey, we hadthe wrong person, we didn't have
the right processes in place,we didn't have the right things
in place.
(49:48):
They're all just lessons, right, so it's all just okay.
What can I learn from this?
Now I move on and we rebuildthis area.
It's nice that someone is ableto give.
I learn from this.
Now I move on and we rebuildthis area.
It's nice that someone is ableto give you another chance and
some people are not, but that's,you know, that's the way it
goes.
From that perspective, though,like you said, like with these
(50:10):
relationships, this is recurringbusiness, so it's business
development versus sales.
You're, you know, differenttype of sale.
That's different type of sale,you know.
So I mean, I guess maybe youhad some, um, some, you know
what you did from the, from thedistribution side, was the same,
(50:30):
was a more similar sale, right,like a more similar sales
process.
Yeah, I know you're enjoyingthe episode, but let's give a
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Speaker 1 (51:08):
You did from the from the distribution side was the
same.
Was a more similar sale rightLike a more similar sales
process?
Yeah, more similar sale rightLike a more similar sales
process.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah, and it takes time.
You know, when you're on thesupply side of the business,
you're, you can't just walk inthere and to a owner or a
roofing company and say, hey,I'm, I'm, you know, buy from me.
You know, you've got to kind ofbuild that relationship and if
someone does buy from you thatquickly, that that's kind of a
red flag that might, you know,they might not pay their bills.
(51:37):
You want to, you want to have alittle bit of uh, hard to get I
guess, but uh, yes, it is aboutrelationships, it is about
being consistent, you're goingto about you're going to.
You know you're going to.
You know if you call a customer, I don't care if it's property
management or generalcontractors or builders or
(51:57):
whoever you're going after.
If you call them once every sixmonths, no one's ever going to
remember you, right?
You're not going to know whoyou are.
And if you just let them say,hey, we've already got a roofing
contractor, we're good, thankyou, don't come back.
And then you never go back,well, you're never going to earn
that business.
So you've got to kind of come upwith a you know, a, an approach
(52:18):
to where you know you're.
You're consistently.
You know touching them one wayor the other, whether it's
LinkedIn or emails, or you knowstopping by the office hey, I
was in the area wanting to sayhello to you.
You know, um, how are thingsgoing?
You never know when thatopportunity is going to be there
and if you only go in thereevery six months, you're going
to miss out.
So you got to stay consistentwith your.
(52:40):
You know your sales calls andyou know staying in touch, and
that's how you're going to besuccessful on that side of the
business You're going to-.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
How many?
When do you give up?
You're going to Right, likethere's a.
You know how many times do youreach out until they say no to
you?
So many times that you know youjust say all right, I guess
we're not the right company.
It's a good question.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
That's a tough one.
It really depends on how badlyyou want to work for them.
I guess we're all human beings.
So have I given up on you know,trying?
Absolutely have I.
Have I let it slip where Iforgot to follow up and it's
been four months?
Yeah, of course.
You know.
One of the things we starteddoing now is like we kind of
(53:25):
have a top five list You'regoing to, we want to work for,
and so we kind of make sure wegive them the most attention.
And then you know we kind ofyou're going to, you're going to
go from there.
But that's a good question.
I'm not a sales coach, I'm nota.
I'm not a, you know, think that.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
I think the answer I love the answer of how much do
we want to work with them?
Right, there's the.
There's the book the UltimateSales Machine by Chet Holmes
that outlines the Dream 100strategy.
So if anyone listening hasn'tread that book, read it.
Audible.
Whatever you do, it's aboutbuilding those long-term
(54:08):
relationships in a B2B salesenvironment, business
development.
And the Dream 100 is hey, Iwant these are my dream 100
customers.
It could be five, it could be25, it could be 10, it could be
whatever it is to you, but Ilike the way that you framed it.
Oh, these are the five that wewant to work for.
(54:31):
These five, no matter, likewe're just gonna keep, we're
just gonna keep stepping up tothe plate until we, until we get
a hit like we're just gonnakeep going.
Now there are others.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
You might just say hey, let me give you an order,
so you go away that's right.
Speaker 1 (54:45):
Like please, just you know.
And which is which is fine tooright, like you, just you just
gotta.
But but knowing you're gonnathink there's some
self-awareness there, right,like okay, okay, this is who we
are, this is who our best, ourperfect customer is right, our
builder, this builder is aperfect builder for us.
(55:07):
The way that we've developedand designed our company, man,
we can really serve them on ahigh level.
I could see it and going afterthat list and figuring out who
that person is, how did youdetermine which builders are the
best?
Are that top five for you?
Is it just that they're thebiggest builders in the area, or
(55:30):
is it that there's some otherfactors in there for you?
Speaker 3 (55:33):
No, we work for builders that build five houses
a year and some that build, youknow, seven, 800 a year.
You're going to, um, I think itkind of boils down to you know,
how are they?
I mean, how, how do they treatus when we say hello to them and
we come in, you know, and, andwhat type of houses they build?
(55:55):
Or you know buildings do theybuild?
Or you know, are they open tospeaking to somebody?
It's, that's a, that's a.
You know, that's a toughquestion because You're going to
know, we all, we always wantthe easy one, right, the one.
Eddie, come on in, yeah, I'lltalk to you, that's right.
You know, it's the ones thatyou know.
(56:17):
But we also have learned somehard lessons.
We've we've been hired by somefolks that that work good to
their trade partners, and youknow, I guess that just takes
some time.
We we've actually fired abuilder before and they weren't
a good fit for us.
And you know some of thesecompanies and you got to be
(56:38):
careful when you work for themand sometimes, unfortunately,
you won't always know until youalready are working for them.
But build your network of yourlocal.
You're going to, you knowfriends, you're in the roofing
business and ask around aboutthem, ask your supplier about
them, but sometimes they want tolook at you like you're a bank
(56:59):
and not pay you as quickly orhave different terms.
So you know that's what thatvendor packet is all about.
Make sure that when you arefilling out that vendor packet
or you're talking to, and itdon't matter what you know
builder, gc, property managerlook at those terms, make sure
they are going to be a goodpartner for you and make sure
they're going to pay their billson time.
(57:21):
That's a big thing.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
How do you ensure that they're paying their bills
on time?
Do you have certain protocolsthat you have put in place, or
is it Unfortunately, I've had tolearn some of those the hard
way.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
We've never been totally stiffed, I mean it.
You know, there there's been acouple of times where it's been
almost 90 days and had to goback and forth and stuff.
But, um, sometimes you can askyour suppliers to to see if they
, um, you know, know anybodywho's worked for him, or, you
(57:58):
know, sometimes you can also askfor credit references.
You know.
So, you know that's.
That's just some of the lessonsyou have to learn along the way
.
You're going to, you're goingto, you're going to.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
So early in the conversation you said that you
didn't understand the amount ofstressing contractor around.
You know managing that stressand kind of getting to the maybe
if there ever is another sideof it.
I don't know if there ever isanother side of it, but you know
how do you get through thattime.
Speaker 3 (58:49):
You're going to, you're going to, you're going to
, you're going to and I think weall would say, if we could do
it again, what we would dodifferently.
You're going to definitely giveyourself some grace.
You can't accomplish in one daywhat someone has in 20 years.
(59:10):
It's going to take time.
One thing that I probably wouldhave done differently would
have been I had a second phone.
You're going to use the samephone for everything, and nights
and weekends I never got abreak.
Every time our family would goon vacation.
(59:31):
It was nonstop work and I thinkthat's just the entrepreneur
life.
I know we all do that, butnever did take off.
Because if it's not a customer,it's an employee.
If it's not an employee, thenit's a supplier.
You know, whatever the case is,you got to also learn how to
(59:53):
handle that amount of pressureand you've got to remain, you
know, professional and in linethe whole time.
You can't lose your temper.
You can't fire back.
You've got to be professional,you've got to be level-headed.
You're going to, you're goingto.
You're going to, you're goingto, you're going to.
You're going to have to do itall yourself.
(01:00:14):
I know it's scary hiring,bringing folks on payroll, but
building that support system isgoing to help you be successful.
And if you need to take a fewmonths to write some SOPs and to
(01:00:37):
put some systems in place onhow you want it to be before you
bring on the right person,that's OK.
Take your time.
Don't rush and just hireanybody just because they're a
warm body.
You want to kind of take yourtime.
Remember that they'rerepresenting your brand when you
go out and they can hurt youand your reputation quickly, and
(01:01:02):
that's a risk that we all take.
But, and guess what?
It's OK to change those SOPsand make those processes better
as you go on.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
So that's what I'm saying bygive yourself some grace, you
know, don't, don't be so hard onyourself.
Kind of put your ideas down onhow project managers should
(01:01:23):
handle the job, or asuperintendent, or a sales rep,
whatever, and and then justsharpen the you know those,
those ideas as you go.
You're going to have somelessons learned.
It's not going to be perfect,it's it's, it's, it's going to
be.
You're going to have somelessons learned.
It's not going to be perfect,it's, it's, it's, it's going to
be.
You're going to have a newchallenge every day.
You're going to, as soon as youthink you had it, you know, put
together and everything wasperfect, a new obstacle will
(01:01:48):
will come up and, and you know,you're going to have to learn
how to overcome it.
Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
They will always come , David Dees.
Appreciate your time, man.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast
For more valuable content.
Visit roofingsuccesspodcastcomWhile there.
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(01:02:23):
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