August 27, 2024 • 55 mins
Chaos is holding your roofing business back—and today, we're breaking down exactly how to fix it! Join us as we talk with Jacob Vanhorn, CEO of Birdcreek Roofing, to uncover the key to building a roofing company that doesn’t just survive—it thrives sustainably.
In this episode, Jacob shares:
✅ How to simplify processes to maximize efficiency and team performance.
✅ The importance of leadership clarity in creating scalable systems.
✅ How focusing on core values like generosity, optimism, and drive fuels long-term success.
✅ Real-world examples of turning chaos into clarity and crushing it in the roofing industry.
Want to lead your team to sustainable growth, create winning company culture, and master the systems that drive success? Listen now!
🔗 https://www.birdcreekroofing.com
🤖 Have a question? Ask this customized ChatGPT for the answer! Specifically designed for this episode, it’s here to help! https://roofingpod.com/chatgpt-218
Resources & Links:
🤝 Join The Roofing & Solar Reform Alliance: http://roofingpod.com/rsra
👉 Take your marketing to the next level: https://roofingpod.com/jobnimbus-marketing
🎯 Join Our Facebook Group: https://roofingpod.com/facebook
IG: https://www.instagram.com/roofingsuccess/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/roofingsuccess
📱 Text Jim @ (612) 512-1812 – Say Hi!
💬 Leave Us a Review: https://roofingpod.com/review
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Days without problems are the anomaly.
This is the person that I wantto coach up.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The very first thing I say to you at the door is hey,
I'm so glad that Susie told youto call me.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
But you do marketing.
It's just different.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast, your go-to source for
insights and inspiration toachieve ultimate success in your
roofing business.
I'm your host, Jim Alleyne, theco-author of Internet Marketing
for Roofing Contractors and thebest known roofer and the
co-founder of Roofer Marketers.
(00:29):
As part of the leadership teamfor the Roofing and Solar Reform
Alliance, I'm here to bring youthe best from the industry.
In each episode, I sit downwith top industry leaders to
dive into their strategies andvaluable lessons to help you
find success in roofing.
Hey, welcome to another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
(00:52):
Today we have Jacob Van Hornfrom Bird Creek Roofing.
How's it going, Jacob?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hey, it's going well.
It's a good Monday morning,ready to get to work.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Awesome, awesome.
Let's start with your story andthe story of Bird Creek.
For those who don't know, youguys are a highly successful
roofing company.
What you know, give us thestory about Bird Creek and how
you got involved.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Berg Creek in June of 2013.
He was a worship pastor inAustin.
I was actually a churchplanting pastor here in Austin.
We knew each other through thatworld.
He was changed careers we'llsay changed careers and was
looking for work up in BeltonTemple and started working for a
roofing company.
A lot of times a story is a verycommon roofing story you work
for a guy who basically givesyou a shirt Actually, he didn't
even give him a shirt Gives youa shirt, business card, says hey
(01:49):
, go at it.
And then he figured it outhimself.
And several months in he had ameeting at a very large
university to get to do theirroof work and the owner of the
company said hey, man, why don'tyou just stay in the truck and
let me take care of this?
You'll probably mess it up.
And subsequently you knowexactly what happened.
The guy took the work and lefthim hanging.
It was a get paid based onprofit on a job kind of a deal,
(02:12):
but the books were ever open.
And about six months in he wasthinking, hey, do I do this
thing myself?
And like a lot of guys do.
And he said but I think I justneed to stay six more months and
learn some more.
And a buddy has said what is heactually giving you, what is he
actually doing for you?
And he said nothing really.
And so he took the initiativeto start this Now.
(02:34):
I'd not recommend other peoplestart it that way after doing it
for six months, but thesenarratives work out sometimes.
And so he lived on bird Creekdrive and temple, texas, and
bird Creek roofing came of it.
There was no incrediblebranding done.
There was no firm in LA thatwas hired to do it.
Brand is not so much the nameor the fact that you have like a
little house over your name ora little roof line or something
(02:56):
like that.
Branding is what do peoplethink when they think of you.
And so Nate began selling roofsand he'll tell you that he sold
his first roof before he evenknew how to put a ladder
together.
There's actually an old photoof him stuck on a roof early on
in his career where someone hadto come and get him off.
But those things happen and agood storm came, like a lot of
good roofing companies to getstarted on that A good storm
(03:17):
came.
He took advantage of that.
He happened to bring in a we'llcall him an OG from the area.
David Gilmeister, who had beenroofing in the area for several
decades, already had a familyname in the area there's a
street named after his familyand so he had some credibility
in that brought him in and theystarted building that and, you
know, started humbly.
About a year and a half inthere was a large storm in the
(03:38):
Belton Temple area that they didabout 1.5 million that year and
Nate pulled over in hisdriveway at one point and said,
felt very grateful about it andsaid I want to give this
opportunity away to 10 otherpeople.
And so he began asking how dowe create opportunities to help
other people succeed?
Fast forward a few years later,I'm transitioning out of my
pastoral ministry stuff, tryingto figure out what I want to do
(03:59):
next.
Reach out to him and say hey,I'm in Austin, you're in Belton,
I'm in Austin, you're in Belton, I'm looking for work down here
if you know anybody.
He said I'm trying to grow theAustin market.
I have another guy, eddieWillis, down there.
I'd love to add you in.
So I joined up with Bird CreekRoofing in April of 2017 as a
team lead and it's been afantastic story from there.
Actually didn't start as a teamlead.
I started as a roofingconsultant, then I became a team
(04:20):
lead and then COO and now CEO,and that's where I'm sitting
here today.
So that's how I got in Now.
Roofing was around me in highschool.
My best friend's dad out ofroofing company and so I would
work for them in the summers,winters, winter breaks.
It was that thing that roofingwas always there for me.
I did it during high school andshortly after, and then in my
late twenties I went back to itfor a while and in my who am I?
(04:42):
What am I going to do with mylife phase?
I went back to it again for awhile and then here I am again.
You know, roofing is not sexy.
No one thinks about doing thatwhen they're a kid.
But boy, it sure is a great wayto take care of your family and
a great way to change somelives and help some people out.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
It is man.
It's amazing how you knowroofing finds you right, like
and and and and.
Once you're there, there arevery few opportunities like,
like this, like it's, it's a andit.
You know.
I think more and more peopleare getting, you know the
(05:18):
opportunity presented to themand they get to see it, but
there's still so many that don't.
And you talked about like kindof one of the visions of the
founder was to like how do weshow this to more people?
How do we get more peopleinvolved in this and with that?
(05:40):
Mission is how you guys grew aslarge as you are today right
how many?
markets are you in?
How many reps do you run?
How many like?
What's the general kind of sizeof the company now, from when
it started?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, so it started.
Obviously, you know, everythingstarts usually with one guy.
Sometimes there's a partnership.
Usually one guy added in a fewguys and it grew rapidly early
on.
Nate is a visionary.
He is generous, he is kind, heis respectful.
He has massive amounts ofintegrity even integrity to his
(06:14):
own harm at times.
I don't mean that negativesense.
I mean he's got so muchintegrity that it hurts his
pocketbook to stick to thethings that he has stated Over
the years when I've.
Honestly, when I joined in Aprilof 2017, it was a great
opportunity I was half in, halfout.
I thought I'd go back topastoral ministry.
I thought I was kind of doingthis thing.
(06:34):
I was kind of doing the in andout thing.
After about a year and a half,I decided, hey, this is it, this
is what God has for me.
I'm going to lean all the wayinto this thing and that was in
my career really took off.
Going to lean all the way intothis thing and that was in my
career really took off.
But I'll confess and Nate knowsthis and we've discussed it
publicly as well as privately Ialmost left the company several
(06:55):
times.
As much as Nate is vision and aheart and generosity and
character and you can drawpeople around him in incredible
ways.
He'd be the first to tell youhe's not a process and systems
guy, he's not a guy who's goingto do that.
He's not a guy who wants to sayno very often to you, and so
when he says createopportunities for other people
to succeed, he really means like, let you loose and go and try
things.
Years ago I read an article onthe Harvard Business Review
called Leadership Run Amok.
(07:16):
And if you let people in yourorganization, whatever it is, do
their own thing, they will dotheir own thing.
Leaders are going to leadwithout clarity, without process
, without system.
They're going to do it and Ialmost left the company several
times over that, because I loveclarity.
Let me know what you want, howyou want it, when you want it,
and, man, we can go to town,we'll get it done and fast
(07:39):
forward a bit.
The company was chasing storms.
We were in central Texas, butwe would chase it to San Angelo
or we'd chase it to Louisiana.
We were doing work in SouthGeorgia for a while because a
huge storm was there and ahandful of guys were like, hey,
let's go.
And so we were kind of thisunwieldy animal, if you will,
that was selling a lot of roots.
(07:59):
We went from year one was368,000, lot of roots.
We went from year one was368,000, 1.5, 3 million, 6
million, 6 million, 6 million, 9million, 15 million and 20, 27
million and 21.
And like just these exponentialgrowth things and this year
(08:24):
we'll probably do 45 plus therewas a large storm in Elk County,
but we intentionally live andwork in a market that has Texas
has storms, but if you're justin Austin, then you only have
the Austin storm market.
We are intentionally from NorthSan Antonio to DFW because
wherever a storm hits in thatmarket, bird Creek is going to
be able to be there to helppeople out and help stabilize
(08:45):
the company financially so thatwe're not living and dying by
one neighborhood.
In April of 2017, I and EddieWillis we were speaking at an
internal conference within thecompany.
We had brought everybody fromLouisiana, south Georgia,
everybody in for a conference.
We had probably had probably 45, 60 guys there and for those
Texas folks, they know thatApril 15th 2021 was a very large
(09:07):
storm in Pflugerville, roundRock, georgetown area.
Probably 60, 70,000 homes gothit by very substantial hail and
it was during our break and Imade a comment to Nate during
our break.
I said you brought 40, 50 doorknocking fools from three
different states into my citywhen a storm hits.
And yes, half the company justgot hotel rooms here in Austin
(09:27):
and just you know, we'reknocking doors and we put the
roofs on.
It was a very fortunate event.
But at that event also, eddieand I did a session on processes
and systems.
Essentially we had some guys dosome other sessions we did on
processes and systems and therewas a consultant in the room
that day that Nate had who partof the company.
He said if you run the companylike Jacob and Eddie do, you'll
make a lot of money.
If you run it like the others,not so much.
(09:49):
So I kind of put a little bugin Nate's ear.
And then at the end of 21, wemade some shifts in the company
and the structure and Nate askedme to be the COO of the company
to help it develop processesand systems.
I was a great sales guy and Ihad a great sales team.
We were just crushing it and hewanted me to do for the company
what we did for the team.
(10:09):
And so we started doing thatand 21, I think it was about $27
, $28 million in revenue.
That went down to about $22million in 22.
But we didn't have that bigstorm and some of the team
members left.
We made that shift.
Um, but then 23 shot back upagain and 24 is doing what it's
doing.
We've got our market is fromNorth San Antonio to McKinney.
(10:31):
Our hub is Bell County, beltontemple and then Austin.
We've got a guy outside of Wacoguy in McKinney and I'm going
to continue to grow, uh, intothe DFW Houston San Antonio
market down the road.
Right now, probably about 30,40, about 30 guys doing it full
time and about 15 guys that are.
There's always that groupthat's like in the swirl.
(10:51):
You do guys have an end, figureit out, guys aren't working it
and and there's always gonna bethose in the swirl about 25, 30
guys who are dead set, seriouson this and sell a lot of roofs.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
The.
When we were talking three,four weeks ago I think, you said
something to me and it was likeit was a mindset thing and it
was without the days withoutproblems are the anomaly.
Right, the days withoutproblems are the anomaly.
And so you know and you talkedabout how you kind of were
(11:25):
tasked with hey, you're going tobe the process guy when you
became the COO you know how doyou bring alignment out of the
chaos of the day to day in theroofing industry.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, I think alignment is about clarity.
I think first one of the guysin McKinney his name is Jeff
Shannon he brought a phrase tous.
He said to be clear is to bekind.
I don't know where he got itfrom, but when he said that to
me it resonated.
To be clear is to be kind.
Fog about what's expected ofthem, what their job looks like,
(12:05):
what the day-to-day should looklike, about what sales goals
should look like, and we justkind of think they'll figure it
out.
It's not very kind to them ifwe're not clear to them about
what a successful career willlook like for them.
It's not kind to youroperations staff if there are
nine different ways that peopleare turning in contracts or
submitting documentation.
It's not kind of operations.
I'm huge on feedback.
(12:27):
The team that I led, and now thecompany as well, knows like I
have a index card that was on myJeep for a long time that said
what will be different next time?
Anytime that something didn'tgo the way we expected it to do,
expected it to, I would askthem what would be different
next time.
I'd let them know ahead of time.
I'd be asking that question sowhen it came to them they
wouldn't be surprised by it orfeel offended by it.
(12:47):
It was for their good that we'dbe sharing that, and so we'd
say what will be different nexttime.
And the backup of that was I'lltry harder is not an answer.
That's just not an answer.
It has to be.
There's something in the system,something in the process,
something in the approach thatdidn't work.
I didn't, and almost alwaysthere's something that's been
(13:07):
documented about what works thatthey did not do.
They didn't take the photos,they didn't check the job, they
didn't check the delivery beforethey started putting the roof
on.
They didn't follow up with thehome or whatever it might be.
They didn't edit the estimateand do a change order properly.
Almost always it falls to that.
We recently met with some folks.
In one of the phrases that theysaid that I really liked was
(13:27):
the system is the star.
And that doesn't mean thatpeople aren't important.
They absolutely are critical toan organization critical.
But the system is what isrepeatable.
The system is what is scalable.
The system is what frees us tobe successful in the business
that we're in.
Every quarter we have an allcompany meeting.
You asked me about how do Ireinforce these things?
(13:49):
Every quarter we have a companymeeting and, with no slights
toward folks who do like thebelt buckle for top salesmen,
that is wonderful.
Here's one of the great thingsabout roofing there are dozens
of ways to do this well.
There are dozens of companycultures.
There are dozens of types ofindividuals who will thrive in a
particular culture.
So anything I say today aboutthe culture that we exist in at
(14:10):
Burnt Creek Roofing is for us atthis time, in this context,
with full respect andappreciation for a variety of
ways that others do it.
But we recognize, with 30, 40guys, if you have only a belt
buckle for a guy every month orevery quarter, every year, it's
the same three guys constantlyfighting for the belt buckle.
We believe that your income isdirectly proportional to the
(14:32):
number of people that you helpand we believe that there is a
mission and our values that cometogether to bring about that
helping in that income.
And so for us, rather than dobelt buckles and things like
that, which are great if theothers are doing it, man, go to
town.
I really want to.
I'm not bashing anybody here, Iwant to be clear on that.
But we wanted to back it upfrom that and say what are the
(14:52):
behaviors, what's the culture,what's the vision that brings
those things about?
And how do I involve 40 peopleinto that contest, if you will?
What really is recognition?
And so our core values areinternally, our core value is
changing lives.
Externally, it's helping Texashomeowners.
The core values are generous,optimistic and driven.
So every quarter we have athing we call them the birdies
(15:13):
Think of them as the Dundies, ifyou like the office, the
Grammys, the Oscars, whatever.
We call them the birdies.
And every quarter we takesubmissions about people who
exemplify helping Texashomeowners.
They exemplify changing lives.
They exemplify being generous,being optimistic, being driven.
In every corner we share a storyfrom the front of one of our
meetings and I have this greenlanyard with a bronze circle
(15:37):
logo with the bird in the middleof it and it's like you're like
getting an Olympic medal if youwill.
And we present those as weshare the stories and I tell
everybody in the room thisperson exemplifies this in this
way.
If you want to grow in thatarea, go talk to Jim, bill,
susie, tammy, whoever it isabout that.
And then at the end of the year, at the Christmas party, we do
a golden birdies.
(15:57):
We take all those stories.
We share it.
We have a little birdie statue.
It's gold and it's not goldgold, it's colored gold.
So it's on a little statue andthey get the golden birdie.
Because we believe that sharingand celebrating mission, vision
and values is what gets us theresult.
If you're chasing the result,you're going to do it through a
(16:18):
myriad of ways that are going tobe difficult.
And then, internally, weborrowed this phrase from the
Navy SEALs slow is smooth,smooth is fast.
There's nothing revolutionaryin it, we just adopted it
because it worked.
If you stop and you take thatextra 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90
seconds to properly documentand communicate to the
operations team what it is youneed, what you're looking for,
(16:40):
what the install message shouldbe, it's slow but it's smooth,
there's less friction in theoperations, they can run the job
project more clearly and itends up being faster at the end
than turning in a junk installmessage that creates emails and
messages and confusion and badwork product and it looks fast
but it's slow and it's costly.
(17:00):
And so we reinforce it throughsharing stories, celebrating
those stories, clarity on thefront end and then consistent
feedback.
When you see something out ofprocess, you say something.
You know there's this phrase ifyou see something, say
something.
That's used in a crime sense inNew York.
You see something bad, saysomething.
I think the world is in need ofpeople who see something good
(17:21):
and say something good about it.
And so in our company, when wesee something good, say
something good about it.
If you see something that's off, say something about it, and
then every member of the companyis authorized whatever you want
to call it to reinforce corevalues.
If you see something that's notgenerous, optimistic or driven,
you don't need to be me, youdon't need to be a team lead.
We can reinforce with oneanother what it looks like to be
(17:44):
that and do that.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I love that.
So it sounds like the all ofthe, the, the system
systemization that you guys doon a daily basis comes back to
the core values.
Yeah, so it's like it's it'sit's built into the culture to
build the processes.
It's built into the culture tobuild the processes.
The see something, saysomething.
(18:08):
Isn't it amazing, jacob, howmany times we only see something
and say something about thenegative things?
Right?
So reinforcing the positivethings through the expression of
those core values is amazing.
I'm hearing that's so cool,well, real quick.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Jim, I'm hearing that that's so cool, Well, real
quick.
I'm sorry.
I think that's because leadersaren't clear in their own mind
and they haven't articulatedwhat it looks like to do the job
right, and so they can't seewhat it's like when it's right.
So they can't say what it'slike when it's right Cause they
haven't done their own work.
They can only say what's wrongbecause they know that they're
clear with that.
And so the leader first has toget clear in their own mind what
(18:47):
is right, what the process is.
They have to articulate it onpaper, they have to articulate
it in a video and then they haveto stay consistent with it,
because human beings will testyou on a regular basis to say
does boss really want it to gothis way?
Yeah, and there's this phrasethat if you let a standard slide
, you have set a new standard.
(19:10):
That's the new standard.
It's the new standard.
So you got to be clear.
But you also have to be kindwith people.
I have this trick that I do withsome of my guys.
They wouldn't take the rightjob photos.
You say, hey, here's what itlooks like the front, the back,
the right, the left, the fourcorners, there's a process for
it, and they wouldn't take thejob photos.
They'd say, hey, I need helpwith this particular job.
When you look at it.
I look at it and I'm like Idon't know what you want me to
do.
The photos aren't here.
(19:31):
And so one particular example Isent him a text message and I
said I love every one of you andI genuinely do.
I love the people that work forphotos.
And I said remember, I love you, but take the damn photos.
And then I send a ball up withthis and they know this.
I send them a picture of KeanuReeves playing with puppies.
(19:53):
And that's to say, I care aboutyou, just take the damn photos.
Here's a picture of KeanuReeves playing with puppies.
Know that I'm not mad at you.
I care for you.
I want you to do well.
Here's the pathway.
But the leaders first got to beclear what does doing it right
look like?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
yeah, and that and that.
That's challenging, right likeit's challenging.
A lot of times leaders orowners, visionaries, are all go,
they're like it, it's just go,just go, we'll break stuff along
the way, let's just go and andthey need that.
And it seems like what you have, you started or became in in in
(20:36):
Bird Creek, that integratorrole like the, the, the, the
person that that kind of sweepsit all together Like, hey, let's
no, no, no, let's take that, goand kind of put some restraint
on it and let's keep it withinhere so we don't go too far off
the rails.
Like you said, if you let asystem slide, you created a new
(20:59):
system or a standard.
I'm sorry, if you let astandard slip or slide, you
created a new standard.
And so you know, going as fastas a lot of companies do,
especially if a big storm hitssomething like that man, you
have to go because it's youropportunity, but there has to be
a feedback loop to get thingscreated in a more efficient way
(21:24):
and to serve the customer on ahigher level.
And so it's amazing.
Let's go a little bit deeperinto the feedback loop.
Let's go into, like a specificexample maybe of something that
has broke over the years, orrecently, however you want to do
whatever comes to mind whereit's like hey, this is a problem
(21:48):
that we faced or kept facing,and so and this is the feedback
loop and how we, how we got tothe other side of that.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, uh.
Well, there's no shortage of umchallenges or problems in the
industry.
Um, it is almost always uh goesback to clarity and um holding
people accountable to to theprocess.
Almost always, as a phrase weuse in preaching, a mist in the
(22:17):
pulpit is a fog in thecongregation.
So if it's unclear in here,it's definitely going to be
unclear out there.
The other thing we used to sayis is the time at which people
get tired of you saying the samething is the first time they
heard you say it, like youreally have to be, have
repetition and what you'recoaching them on and what you
(22:39):
want them to do, and at the timethey push back their first time
, their first time they heard it.
And the reason it's the firsttime they've heard it and
they're pushing back is becausenow it's challenging their
thoughts or their behavior.
Prior to that, they were justdismissing what you had to say.
It was in one ear and out theother.
Well, now you keep saying it somuch I have to deal with this.
My first response is stopsaying this because I don't want
(23:01):
to deal with this, but you haveto keep pushing through that
point For us as leaders.
We think the repetition isboring.
We think we're bored with it,really honestly, we think it's
boring to them.
But the truth is, as we've saidit so much, we're bored with it
.
But the leader has to pushthrough that boredom that he has
because he or she wants to keepgoing to the new thing.
You've got to stay consistent.
As far as a really specificscenario, um, you know, um, you
(23:28):
ever heard of the challenge of agrocery store when there's two
ketchups, it's easy to choose.
When there's three, 300ketchups, it's hard to choose.
So that's where I get in myhead right now.
Because of which of the 200regularly recurring challenges
that we have, is my brainlocking in on?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
While you're thinking about that, I've heard that
saying about like, the, the, the, about how many times you need
to say things for people to hearit.
And there was some.
I don't know what the study wasdone, but I heard the CEO of
JobNimus talk about it.
Was he asked you know why doyou, why do you do you guys know
why I say the same things overand over again?
And his, like his line, was youknow, because after I say it 10
(24:07):
times, about 60% of you willremember what I will actually
hear what I have said.
Right, so after sayingsomething 10 times, then people
actually like what you're saying.
It's kind of, it's when, right?
Another example of that whileyou're thinking is is, like you
know, you never see the car.
(24:30):
Like when you buy a new car.
All of a sudden, you see thatnew car everywhere, right, it's
like it's not in your mind,right?
So if it's, if it's just, youknow that car's just passing by.
That's the thought, theconversation that you're having
with your leadership or withyour team.
It's just going by them, butthen all of a sudden, it becomes
in their vision when it'simportant, or when it's that the
(24:51):
thing that they're dealing withtoday, or when they, if they
don't get that checklist filledout properly, their check
doesn't come on time or you knowthings like that.
So I think that you know thatthat repetition in is is is an
impactful thing to to comment on.
I wanted to call that out foreveryone listening like that man
(25:12):
.
It has to be consistent and ithas to be the same the same
message over and over and overagain enforcing the high
standards of your company, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And I think, jim, what, what, what works is
consistency.
We, we tend to think, hey, Itried this for a couple of weeks
, they're not responding.
Hey, I went to this, I'm tryingthis, it's not responding.
You just keep touching downLike it's like a plane that just
like bam, I'm back up, bam, I'mback up.
You can't just keep touchingdown.
First off, it's a symptom of alack of clarity in the mind of
(25:44):
the leader that they don't knowthe vision that this is.
We know this.
It all returns back toleadership.
I'm in a coaching program andone of the things that the guy
says is if it's on your plate,you probably ordered it.
It's on your plate, youprobably ordered it.
So, whether you intended to ornot, you probably did so.
Consistency, I think, is themissing component in my life, my
(26:07):
relationships, the work lifethat we have.
Consistency is missing in allof those things.
Here's an example I would havein terms of that consistency and
that feedback loop Having aconsistent inspection process.
That at times is an unnecessaryset of steps on every single
roof.
It's an inspection for a leakover the back left living room.
(26:29):
I don't need to take the photosof the front, right, left, back
each, each corner.
I don't have to do all thewhole roof.
The problem is just right overthere and the house is 30
minutes away from me.
And then seven days later Isend them the repair quote for
it.
It's going to be x dollars andthey say you know, actually
maybe we'll just go ahead andreplace the roof.
Can you give me a bid on that?
I don't have have the photos.
I didn't document any damage.
(26:49):
I don't know if there's anyhail on this.
I don't know what to do withthis client.
I've got to now take time outof my day and go do another
drive over to the house that Iwas already at when I could have
took that 60, 90 seconds.
And sometimes the house isn't30 minutes away, sometimes it's
an hour away.
Our market is one hour east andwest of I-35.
That's our territory.
If we can get to it within anhour by 35, we're in the sweet
(27:10):
spot, but sometimes it's further, and so just the simplicity of
not taking job site photos.
In addition to that, I thinkit's the mental um difficulty or
energy drain of doing umsomething unique every time
you're at a house.
My operations guy describes itas a rembrandt instead of paint
by numbers every time you're ata house my operations guy
describes it as a RembrandtInstead of paint by numbers
(27:32):
every time you go to the house,it's a Rembrandt.
You're creating a new process,a new sales flow, a new
presentation, a new whatever.
And all of that has an energydraw on you and a confusion on
you.
But if you have a consistentprocess for communicating to the
homeowner when you're going toarrive, a consistent approach to
going to arrive, a consistentapproach to the door, a
consistent approach to theinspection, consistent approach
(27:53):
to the photos, you're just notthinking about it.
It becomes second nature.
And then that energy in yourmind, the thoughtfulness you
have, is available for that nextlevel sales stuff.
You're not thinking about theinspection, you're thinking
about the psychology of the salewith the homeowner.
You're thinking about what,what their needs are, what their
hopes are in this project, andyou're moving to the next level
of how you help this person.
(28:14):
But you have to do the basicsfirst.
Classic coach John Wooden, uclaBruins classic story.
Every time the new basketballseason came around, he started
with let me show you how to tieyour shoes.
These were grown adults who hewould teach how to tie their
shoes, as an example of thebasics, are always going to be
in.
They will always be helpful.
(28:36):
And if you can't do the basicswhen it's slow, you will not do
them.
When the storm hits, you justwon't.
And so you've got to do thebasics when they're slow, even
when it seems easy.
And if you could do the basicscan be more efficient.
And when it's slow, if youcould get the same production
out of 30 hours a week, wouldn'tyou rather do that than 50
hours a week?
I would.
I'd rather be more productive,and so I spent a lot of time
(28:58):
with guys going over what arethe basics of each process, each
step along the way, and how dothose basics serve?
You asked earlier and this tiesinto that you asked earlier
about how we reinforce.
One of the things we also do iswe do highlight people that are
successful at certain areas andwe show use cases of guys
following best practices andI'll say look, guys, I can show
(29:20):
you these top 10 salespeople.
They are compliant in theseareas.
The bottom 10 are not compliantin these areas.
I can show you the metrics fromcompliance to the process and
the system, and so we do that ona regular basis.
And then, of course, you've gotto do the granular coaching
that happens all the time.
The phrase that we use don'tknow where it came from.
(29:41):
Didn't create it.
Coach them up or coach them out.
You've got to coach them up todo better, to succeed, to meet
their sales goals, to meet theirobjectives, or coach them out
to some other career that isn'tgetting on a roof in 104 degrees
for six months out of summer inTexas.
There are easier ways to make$80,000, $90,000.
(30:01):
And that's the low end.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, that's the low end, right.
Yeah, there's a lot to that.
There was a couple of things Iwanted to touch on there, and
the upper out right Holdingpeople accountable to the
process.
Where's the line there?
How do you define that?
(30:27):
How do you think about that?
How do you think of, how do youdetermine yep, this is the
person like, this is the personthat I want to coach up.
How do you determine when it'stime to coach them out?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
and it's going to be follow through with the basics.
For instance, we have a 90-dayquick start that we're beginning
.
Actually, this isn't somethingwe've had before.
We're starting it, but I'vebeen doing it.
I just call it a 90-day quickstart.
I've had it before in my headand I've done it with folks, but
now we're modifying it.
If you will, we're rolling itout throughout the entire
company as we switch to W2 inOctober.
It'll be a codified thing, butessentially it's this what are
(31:11):
the behaviors that are necessaryto be successful at this?
I don't need 90 days to findout you won't do that.
I don't need 90 days to findout you won't knock a door, that
you won't put together friendsand family lists, that you won't
show up at the ride-alongs,that you won't do the video
training, that you won'twhatever.
I don't need 90 days to do that.
I also have built into some ofour hiring process a few things
(31:33):
they need to do at theapplication stage that I don't
really care what the data says.
I need to see them do it.
I need to see that they canfollow the process of an email.
If they don't, hey, you'reprobably a great guy, but you're
not the one for me.
So coachability has got to bethere.
You have to be willing tolisten, be coached in the basics
of things.
You know we, and it doesn'tmatter whether he's the top
(31:57):
sales guy or the bottom salesguy.
The top sales guy still has todo it and I have had people that
I've been willing to let walkthat are $2 million producers,
because I'm trying to sell 40,50 million.
I'm not trying to sell two orthree.
Now I realize different folksare in different contexts, have
(32:17):
to make different decisions.
We have a guy right now who isan exceptional salesperson, the
guy we teach, know, like andtrust.
We want people to know you,like you, trust you.
We picked that up from BNI, thenetworking organization that
we're part of.
We have 14 guys in a BNI inCentral Texas highly believe in
it no, like and trust.
So I just kept that.
(32:37):
We teach our guys that he knowshow to establish that with
homeowners.
He 100% does.
He knows how to care for them,how to take care of them.
He's a bit of a turd to people.
He's a bit of a turd, um, hecan be short, he can be
judgmental, he can be arrogant.
He's excellent at his job if hedoesn't feel like you're good
(32:59):
or you're committed, he can cutyou down.
And he wanted to be, wants totake that next step, and so we
had to have that conversationabout him, his life, his heart.
Um, I have to ask myself, do Iwant 10 other guys like you?
Because leaders recreatethemselves and we had some
really great conversation aboutit.
And this is a guy that had anopportunity to go anywhere.
(33:20):
He wanted to and sell a lot ofroofs and make a lot of money,
but, in short, he feels thatBird Creek Roofing is helping
him become a better person, abetter dad, a better human, a
better man, helping him grow,and I have watched that guy in
the last four or five monthsgrow in incredible ways.
I'm really excited about thatguy.
(33:43):
He was coachable.
He was already hitting the youknow, dotting the I's, crossing
the T's.
You've got to be coachable.
Had he not been responsive, Ilovingly would have coached him
out.
When I say lovingly, I don'tmean that in some kind of weak
way.
I genuinely care about him.
I genuinely care about thepeople who work for us.
So for me, you've got to becoachable.
(34:05):
You've got to be.
I forget the author of the book,but it's Humble, hungry, smart
is the title.
You got to be humble, hungryand smart.
Humble is huge for us.
It's not one of our core values, but if there was a core values
B list, humble, hungry andsmart would be on it and I
needed him to be humble in that.
And we're going to do somegreat things, yeah.
(34:27):
But then I got other guys whohave all the humility in the
world.
They can't figure it out.
And so one of thoseresponsibilities is for us to
adjust what I expect consultantsto do in the whole gamut of
being a roofing consultant.
What things can I take off oftheir plate so that more people
fit the job description?
(34:47):
Because if I have 20 things theguy's got to be able to do,
there might be five percent ofthe market that can do that.
But if I can narrow that downto seven things, eight things,
nine things, ten things, andthen 50 of the market,
employment market can do that,and so we're at a journey of
pulling some things from themand taking them in-house to help
them be able to turn and sellmore regularly.
(35:08):
The whole company company, fromthe time I came on in April of
17, has been from individualsales guys generally running
everything from you knowbeginning to end, and you've got
to find a bunch of unicorns todo it and they all do it their
own unique way.
Homeowners have a differentsales experience.
Consultants have a differenttraining experience and it
(35:28):
becomes difficult to reign inthat.
Consultants have a differenttraining experience and it
becomes difficult to reign inthat growth and have a clean
process and good relationships.
And so over the years 2024 forme, the one word I had for Bird
Creek was sophistication.
We're going to become moresophisticated as a company.
We're going to grow up as acompany, become more mature as a
company, and so we've beenspending time on that.
(35:51):
We've brought in the new rightpeople director of operations.
We'll have a new sales directorstarting in January, brought in
a new senior production guy andthat is freeing me up to work
on things that I call companykillers, compliance, cashflow,
lawsuits, liability, things likethat, and I'm currently working
on those things.
So that's been a reallyfantastic switch for us.
(36:11):
But yeah, I got off track there, but I gave you a little extra,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
No, but that's great and I want to go into this a
little bit more.
I love what you talk aboutsimplifying the positions,
narrowing the focus of theposition so that more people can
be successful in that position.
I want that is a that is a verykey takeaway for people to
(36:36):
listen to.
You know there are very there.
There are many there.
There's, like I think you saidit earlier in the podcast.
There's a lot of ways to runthis business right.
Like there's no one way to runthis business.
You have to have, you can haveyour own, your own unique spin
on it and be successful.
I know companies doing 30, 40,50, 60 with their reps doing
(36:58):
cradle to grave.
Their reps are doing everything.
They're running the job sitesthey're doing so.
There's not one way, but Ithink, for people to think about
how they want to develop theircompany.
This is a unique thing for themto think about.
(37:19):
Simplify equals more rein inthe number of bullet points in
that job description of theseare your job duties.
If you can limit that list,there will be more people that
will be able to do that listWell.
I should add well to it.
(37:39):
Should I add well to it, jacob?
Absolutely, absolutely Want themto do it well, do it well, and
so you kind of mentioned it onthe sales rep side.
But are you doing the samething on the production side
with your office team?
Is that a focus throughout thecompany?
And then, how are you lookingat that?
(38:01):
How are you looking at aposition and going, okay, if I
take this out, this out and thisout, I can hire three more
people and they'll be much moreefficient at it.
But if?
But, it's going to be hard forme to find a person that does
this, this and this well, howare you guys going about that?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah Well, first off, clarity again in the process.
Clarity in the operatingprocedures for not just sales
staff but also production staff.
Again, missed in the mind is afog in the congregation.
Same thing for production staff.
They want clarity in that aswell.
(38:41):
Historically, what created thedifficulty in that clarity was
the fact that you had 30, 40guys out there turning in a
variety of quality in terms oftheir job submissions, and that
makes things more difficult.
So you've got to help the salesside to also help the
production side.
So clarity in the standardoperating procedures, creating
creation of job aids.
In addition to that, how do weuse technology to help minimize
(39:02):
mistakes, help createefficiencies?
The director of operations Ihave he is a 25 year mortgage
bank VP.
He's started his own, done hisown.
He talks about production ofroofs, similar to the production
of loan applications.
You get a bunch of paperworkthat comes in.
You've got to run it through asystem and you've got to have an
(39:23):
output, and that process has tobe as clear on the front end
and as smooth as possible.
So you shorten the deliverywindow, shorten the production
timeline and you produce happyhomeowners on the front end and
as smooth as possible.
So you shorten the deliverywindow, shorten the production
timeline and you produce happyhomeowners on the back end.
That's our key goal Happyhomeowners on the back end.
I have sat in so many rooms ofpeople who just are shocked when
(39:44):
I say this we did 30 millionlast year on $47,000 in
marketing.
Now I'm sorry to say that herefor you, jim, you're wonderful.
You're fantastic.
I adore.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
It's just different.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
You are 1000% correct .
We do referral marketing.
We use Matt Danskin'srestoration referral service
program for insurance agents.
We teach people how to workwith realtors.
We teach people how to vet therealtor on the front end and how
to cut them early if they'rejust taking advantage of you.
If you can get a handful ofreally loyal, good realtors and
(40:19):
you can serve them well, it's abeautiful pipeline.
If you're not sure how to vetthem, how to cut them, how to
keep them, it's going to gopoorly.
But we also teach a very strongreferral expectation.
We normalize referrals.
The very first thing I say toyou at the door is hey, I'm so
glad that Susie told you to callme.
We rely on referrals and I'mglad that you're going to get
(40:44):
the same service that Susie got.
And I can't wait for the end ofthis that you get to tell your
friends about it just like Susiedid.
It's normal.
Everybody's giving referrals ifyou're happy with the product,
the service you received.
Know, like and trust starts atthe very beginning we all know
this and it carries through tothe end.
We don't always nail it, but wewant to do well and nail that.
So we're trying to get thisthrough sales, production, the
(41:05):
back end there's a lot of batonshandling off.
It has to be clear.
So, internally, as far as howwe're helping production.
Again, clarity is kindness inthat.
In addition to that, we alsowant to look at how tech solves
those issues.
We're running into the pointright now that our CRM and I
won't name them because I don'tfeel like I need to dog anybody
out here today Every CRM has itspros and cons.
(41:30):
Everyone's always what's thebest one?
Nah, what's the best one foryou right now?
The size you are and the waythat you run your company,
Because some CRMs will not workthe way that you run it.
They will be a problem.
And so we are actually in theprocess of working with a
bespoke custom build aroundHubSpot.
That'll take about a year or soto build out, because we are in
(41:52):
our case.
Our CRM and I think all of themare.
Their bread and butter is $2 to$8 million roofing companies in
the processes and complexitiesthat come with that.
A $30 million plus roofingcompany has different
complexities.
Not good, not better.
I'm not better than anybody,we're not better.
We're just just differentcomplexities, different needs
that it has and those CRMs.
(42:13):
I constantly do feedback andtalk with them and and they say,
hey, put something in thefeedback deal, and I'm like
that's where ideas go to die.
Talk with them and they say,hey, put something in the
feedback deal, and I'm likethat's where ideas go to die.
The problem is is there's only asmall handful of companies that
have that need of thatcomplexity?
Most of the clients are rightin the middle and of course,
they're going to serve thatclient.
I just have to have thematurity and insight to
(42:33):
recognize that I'm not theirbest client.
Yes, I give them a lot of money, but I'm not their bread and
butter client.
So we need to move out.
So we're making that shift tohelp the operations team do
better.
We stand behind the operationsteam very strongly A lot of
times.
Sales guys want to create alittle bit of enmity between the
two parties from time to time,and your production team needs
to know that you have their back.
(42:53):
Whether it's the top sales guyor the worst sales guy.
They need to know that yousupport them, that you recognize
them, and so they also areeligible for birdies.
We gave birdies to twoproduction team members this
last week, this last uh session.
You were not just celebratingsales people.
We've got.
The whole gamut of the wholecompany needs to be recognized.
Everybody plays a part in thecore values of that.
(43:13):
Um and again, same thing.
Um, if your work product slips,we need to have a conversation.
We had a gentleman the other daywho responded to a text message
in a way that was not generous,and so I took a screenshot,
sent it to one of the guys andsaid, hey, would you chat about
it?
And he did.
(43:34):
He didn't recognize, he cameoff that way off, that way.
He didn't intend to.
He was in the thick of it, busy, and he responded in a way that
was short and curt and hey,let's stop.
Slow is smooth, Smooth is fast,not just in production, but in
the relationship.
Stop, slow down, take a second,be clear, be kind, say a little
(43:54):
different and then keep onmoving.
And so, yeah, clarity, feedback, celebration.
The same Again.
You said earlier, the corevalues are the lens through
which we make decisions, thelens through which we coach,
it's the lens through which wecompensate, it's the lens
through which we do everything.
(44:15):
If they're core values, thenyou see through them.
These, these glasses, are mycore values.
I see through them more clearly, and so if they're your core
values, if they're what you'reabout, then let them be the lens
to which you make thosedecisions, so they all get the
same coaching process yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Another thing that you talked about and I really
like to talk to people about,like marketing, isn't just
prospecting for new clients.
What you guys are doing in thebirdies and the things like that
, that's marketing to yourcurrent team members, and you
would talk to me I think wetalked about that.
(44:57):
You have a high level ofretention.
You have like your ability toretain in that manner, because
people are so bought in.
And now, speaking to the like,if you take the recognition off
of just the sales number and youturn that recognition to the
core value, the production teammember and the sales team member
(45:20):
can both participate in thatrecognition.
So, if it's sorry, what was it?
The exact words I can'tremember were to make a home
like the homeowner experience.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Oh yeah, help Texas homeowners.
The value and the production ofthe backend is to make more
happy homeowners, that's right.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
So make more happy homeowners right, like there's
two things, there's two, twopeople or multiple, the whole
company can get an award forthat right.
They could get an award forselling more roofs because
you're helping more homeowners,you can get a.
You know, if you're, if you'redoing an exceptional job on the
production side, you're helpingmore homeowners.
(45:58):
If you're the person in theoffice answering the phone,
setting appointments, dealingwith any issues that are coming
in any gaps in conversation withthe homeowners, you're dealing
with that.
Maybe the supplementing team,like everyone on the team, can
(46:18):
be rewarded for that.
So I think that's a really,really cool thing that you guys
are doing.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
It's critical that they all feel that they're a
part of that.
Otherwise it's a tiered valuekind of deal, and that's not
what we're going for here.
No, not at all.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
I saw a post on Facebook recently and it was
just this like kind of about thejourney.
It's everyone starts offterrible at something, right.
Then you get, you know, like alittle bit of competency in it,
and then you become competent init, and then you become good at
it, and then you become greatat it.
And then, after you're great atit, people are like, oh my
(47:01):
goodness, like this is soamazing that you're great at
this, but they, they don't lookat those steps in between.
So I want to ask you, if youwere to start over, right, like
if you were to start over withthe knowledge that you have now
being great at something, if youwere to start over, what would
you do differently?
Speaker 2 (47:19):
great at something.
If you were to start over, whatwould you do differently?
Yeah, that's, I'm not trying tododge the question by any means
.
It becomes difficult to reallyassess critically the soil that
birthed you.
If you will, it is.
Yeah, there's a very realpossibility that if I were to by
myself, I wasn't involved withNate.
(47:39):
Possibility that if I were tobuy myself, I wasn't involved
with Nate.
If I were to start a company,there's a possibility I might be
insufferable at first, if we'rehonest with ourselves, because
how you coach, how you lead andwho comes in to lead at a
particular time, context, space,the resources, the people you
(48:00):
have that's critical.
There are people who can startthings but don't run them when
they get to a certain size.
We knew this in church planting.
There were guys who couldpioneer and they get stuck in
the living room in a core phaseand couldn't get past 12 people
because they were great having aone-on-one conversation, but
they couldn't stand back andspeak to 200, 300 or a thousand
people.
They couldn't do that.
(48:21):
And then there are people whocan speak to a thousand that can
never speak the one-on-one.
They're uncomfortable, theireyes dart away all the time.
Nate's character, hisgenerosity, his winsomeness, his
just affable charisma, if youwill, drew together men, and
primarily men, but men and womenwho wanted to work for him.
(48:43):
Now I've started businesses.
I've I've run nonprofits, I'vestarted churches.
I've certainly been able todraw those folks in, but what
I've drawn in the same folksthat he did.
I don't know if I were to startthis out again, though what I
am 100% certain on is that Iwould do the work to understand
my market, and when I say mymarket I don't even mean just
(49:04):
Austin.
So we're in the Austin market.
There's a neighborhood that Ilived in for several years has
6100 homes.
Average 95 percent owneroccupied.
Average income is two hundredand forty thousand dollars.
That and the homes were alleight pitch and more, 38 squares
and more.
I can bust my tail in aneighborhood with a bunch of 20
(49:24):
square, five pitch walkables,and after work I hell of a lot
harder than this other area.
So I know my market, and notjust that.
I know there's a bunch ofpeople talking about the five
mile famous and stuff.
I don't know when it started.
I was talking about five milefamous seven years ago ago.
I also call it hyperlocal.
It's a hyperlocal focus.
It's this idea that if there'stwo people in southeast Austin,
(49:46):
two people in southwest, twopeople in northeast, two people
in northwest, but if I haveeight people all in the same
hyper local area that know meand love me, the likelihood of
being seen and hit isexponentially higher.
And I'm going to have three orfour people say call Jacob.
(50:08):
So in the neighborhood I was in, every roofer in the
neighborhood had one, maybe two.
I would have seven, eight, nine, 10 people who would say Jacob,
jacob.
I win that all the time.
I win it, and so thatneighborhood helped me be
incredibly so.
I don't want to say the name ofthe neighborhood, let's call it
Johnson City.
I wanted to be Johnson City,famous when you thought of
(50:29):
roofing, and that wasn't a city,it was just a neighborhood.
When you were in thatneighborhood and you thought of
roofing, I wanted you to call me, I wanted to own it and I can
do seven inspections whilepeople are driving all over
Timbuktu trying to get on threeor four roofs.
You see my signs all over theplace.
So I would absolutely start ina very hyperlocal area.
I would do the demographicresearch to find out where the
type of client and the type ofroof that I want to get started
(50:51):
is.
I would start there.
I would start with clarityaround the mission, the vision
about who I am, about thecomponents that make up a
successful salesperson.
Nate will tell you that hedidn't do a bunch of brand
marketing, he didn't do a bunchof core value assessments, he
didn't meet with a consultantand do all this kind of stuff.
He said I want to help Texashomeowners.
(51:12):
That's it, helping Texashomeowners?
He said I want to work withpeople who are generous,
optimistic and driven.
Over the years we have foundthat that specific makeup of
people who are generous,optimistic and driven.
Over the years we have foundthat that specific makeup of
people who are generous.
They have an abundance mindsetrather than a scarcity mindset.
They're generous in spirit,with one another and how we
handle interactions or friction.
They're optimistic.
(51:32):
I don't want to work with abunch of people.
This is a hard job.
You're going to knock a hundreddoors and a hundred of them
might say, no, you've got tobelieve the next door is going
to be it.
I don't want to work with abunch of yours being pessimistic
and driven.
It's OK, I get it.
I don't want to show my.
I don't want to have everybodyshow up to the office at 7 am
and watch David Goggins videosto pump them up for the day.
(51:52):
I don't want to have to babysitpeople on their metrics tricks.
So the fact that we hire andassess in the hiring process for
helpful people who are generous, optimistic and driven kind of
takes the gate.
Like this If your vision isthis, everybody's on board it.
But as you tighten and clarifyvision, you find people who are
standing outside of it andvision and clarity purifies the
(52:17):
group of people you have.
It purifies and it says you'rejust, you're not a good fit,
it's okay.
I have a guy who I genuinely so.
We're not, we're not cradle tograve, but we're not turning a
contract and walk away.
I have a guy that I honestlythink if he went to go work for
a company that was turning acontract and walk away, he'd
(52:37):
thrive, he would crush.
He's selling a lot of roofs forus right now, but the backend
stuff is hard for him.
I think he'd crush if he wentto another company that was like
that.
So that's why I can also sayhonestly there's a dozen ways to
do this.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
There's a bunch of different type of people and
there's different contextsyou're going to fit in.
Sometimes we can malign theperson who led the other company
when in reality, it just wasn'tthe right fit for us, and
that's okay.
So for me, clarity of my market, clarity by mission and vision,
clarity of my core values andthen I'm going to speak that to
as many potential people as Ican, and those who resonate with
(53:14):
it are going to be drawn to it.
Those who don't resonate withit, go in peace, man.
Go in peace.
In the meantime, I'm going tosell a lot of roofs and I'm
going to make a lot of money,and I'm going to tell you, at
every new recruit that workedfor me, I told him this I know
how to sell a lot of roofs.
I know how to like a lot ofmoney.
If you do everything I say whenI say how I say, you too can
(53:36):
make a lot of money in about ayear, year and a half.
You can come up with your ownlittle shtick.
You can be more, but we'll talkthrough that.
I said, but by the time I thinkyou get to a year and a half
down the road, you're going tofall in love with the way I
showed you how to do it, becauseit's easy, it's clear, it's
consistent and you're going tomake a lot of money and you're
going to show proof of concept.
If you will, I'd start that way.
(54:02):
Yeah, that's the best answer Igot for you in this moment.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
It's a great answer.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
I'll write you a better answer.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
It's a great answer, jacob.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
Thank you for tuning into theRoofing Success Podcast.
For more valuable content,visit roofingsuccesspodcastcom
While there, check out oursponsors for exclusive offers,
shop for merchandise and sign upfor our newsletter for industry
(54:29):
updates and tips.
Also join the Roofing SuccessFacebook group to connect with
other professionals and stayupdated on the latest trends.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe, like, share
and leave a comment.
Your support helps us continueto bring you top industry
insights.
The website link is in thedescription.
Thanks for listening.
Days without problems are the anomaly.
This is the person that I wantto coach up.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
The very first thing I say to you at the door is hey,
I'm so glad that Susie told youto call me.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
But you do marketing.
It's just different.
Welcome to the Roofing SuccessPodcast, your go-to source for
insights and inspiration toachieve ultimate success in your
roofing business.
I'm your host, Jim Alleyne, theco-author of Internet Marketing
for Roofing Contractors and thebest known roofer and the
co-founder of Roofer Marketers.
(00:29):
As part of the leadership teamfor the Roofing and Solar Reform
Alliance, I'm here to bring youthe best from the industry.
In each episode, I sit downwith top industry leaders to
dive into their strategies andvaluable lessons to help you
find success in roofing.
Hey, welcome to another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
(00:52):
Today we have Jacob Van Hornfrom Bird Creek Roofing.
How's it going, Jacob?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Hey, it's going well.
It's a good Monday morning,ready to get to work.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Awesome, awesome.
Let's start with your story andthe story of Bird Creek.
For those who don't know, youguys are a highly successful
roofing company.
What you know, give us thestory about Bird Creek and how
you got involved.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Berg Creek in June of 2013.
He was a worship pastor inAustin.
I was actually a churchplanting pastor here in Austin.
We knew each other through thatworld.
He was changed careers we'llsay changed careers and was
looking for work up in BeltonTemple and started working for a
roofing company.
A lot of times a story is a verycommon roofing story you work
for a guy who basically givesyou a shirt Actually, he didn't
even give him a shirt Gives youa shirt, business card, says hey
(01:49):
, go at it.
And then he figured it outhimself.
And several months in he had ameeting at a very large
university to get to do theirroof work and the owner of the
company said hey, man, why don'tyou just stay in the truck and
let me take care of this?
You'll probably mess it up.
And subsequently you knowexactly what happened.
The guy took the work and lefthim hanging.
It was a get paid based onprofit on a job kind of a deal,
(02:12):
but the books were ever open.
And about six months in he wasthinking, hey, do I do this
thing myself?
And like a lot of guys do.
And he said but I think I justneed to stay six more months and
learn some more.
And a buddy has said what is heactually giving you, what is he
actually doing for you?
And he said nothing really.
And so he took the initiativeto start this Now.
(02:34):
I'd not recommend other peoplestart it that way after doing it
for six months, but thesenarratives work out sometimes.
And so he lived on bird Creekdrive and temple, texas, and
bird Creek roofing came of it.
There was no incrediblebranding done.
There was no firm in LA thatwas hired to do it.
Brand is not so much the nameor the fact that you have like a
little house over your name ora little roof line or something
(02:56):
like that.
Branding is what do peoplethink when they think of you.
And so Nate began selling roofsand he'll tell you that he sold
his first roof before he evenknew how to put a ladder
together.
There's actually an old photoof him stuck on a roof early on
in his career where someone hadto come and get him off.
But those things happen and agood storm came, like a lot of
good roofing companies to getstarted on that A good storm
(03:17):
came.
He took advantage of that.
He happened to bring in a we'llcall him an OG from the area.
David Gilmeister, who had beenroofing in the area for several
decades, already had a familyname in the area there's a
street named after his familyand so he had some credibility
in that brought him in and theystarted building that and, you
know, started humbly.
About a year and a half inthere was a large storm in the
(03:38):
Belton Temple area that they didabout 1.5 million that year and
Nate pulled over in hisdriveway at one point and said,
felt very grateful about it andsaid I want to give this
opportunity away to 10 otherpeople.
And so he began asking how dowe create opportunities to help
other people succeed?
Fast forward a few years later,I'm transitioning out of my
pastoral ministry stuff, tryingto figure out what I want to do
(03:59):
next.
Reach out to him and say hey,I'm in Austin, you're in Belton,
I'm in Austin, you're in Belton, I'm looking for work down here
if you know anybody.
He said I'm trying to grow theAustin market.
I have another guy, eddieWillis, down there.
I'd love to add you in.
So I joined up with Bird CreekRoofing in April of 2017 as a
team lead and it's been afantastic story from there.
Actually didn't start as a teamlead.
I started as a roofingconsultant, then I became a team
(04:20):
lead and then COO and now CEO,and that's where I'm sitting
here today.
So that's how I got in Now.
Roofing was around me in highschool.
My best friend's dad out ofroofing company and so I would
work for them in the summers,winters, winter breaks.
It was that thing that roofingwas always there for me.
I did it during high school andshortly after, and then in my
late twenties I went back to itfor a while and in my who am I?
(04:42):
What am I going to do with mylife phase?
I went back to it again for awhile and then here I am again.
You know, roofing is not sexy.
No one thinks about doing thatwhen they're a kid.
But boy, it sure is a great wayto take care of your family and
a great way to change somelives and help some people out.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
It is man.
It's amazing how you knowroofing finds you right, like
and and and and.
Once you're there, there arevery few opportunities like,
like this, like it's, it's a andit.
You know.
I think more and more peopleare getting, you know the
(05:18):
opportunity presented to themand they get to see it, but
there's still so many that don't.
And you talked about like kindof one of the visions of the
founder was to like how do weshow this to more people?
How do we get more peopleinvolved in this and with that?
(05:40):
Mission is how you guys grew aslarge as you are today right
how many?
markets are you in?
How many reps do you run?
How many like?
What's the general kind of sizeof the company now, from when
it started?
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, so it started.
Obviously, you know, everythingstarts usually with one guy.
Sometimes there's a partnership.
Usually one guy added in a fewguys and it grew rapidly early
on.
Nate is a visionary.
He is generous, he is kind, heis respectful.
He has massive amounts ofintegrity even integrity to his
(06:14):
own harm at times.
I don't mean that negativesense.
I mean he's got so muchintegrity that it hurts his
pocketbook to stick to thethings that he has stated Over
the years when I've.
Honestly, when I joined in Aprilof 2017, it was a great
opportunity I was half in, halfout.
I thought I'd go back topastoral ministry.
I thought I was kind of doingthis thing.
(06:34):
I was kind of doing the in andout thing.
After about a year and a half,I decided, hey, this is it, this
is what God has for me.
I'm going to lean all the wayinto this thing and that was in
my career really took off.
Going to lean all the way intothis thing and that was in my
career really took off.
But I'll confess and Nate knowsthis and we've discussed it
publicly as well as privately Ialmost left the company several
(06:55):
times.
As much as Nate is vision and aheart and generosity and
character and you can drawpeople around him in incredible
ways.
He'd be the first to tell youhe's not a process and systems
guy, he's not a guy who's goingto do that.
He's not a guy who wants to sayno very often to you, and so
when he says createopportunities for other people
to succeed, he really means like, let you loose and go and try
things.
Years ago I read an article onthe Harvard Business Review
called Leadership Run Amok.
(07:16):
And if you let people in yourorganization, whatever it is, do
their own thing, they will dotheir own thing.
Leaders are going to leadwithout clarity, without process
, without system.
They're going to do it and Ialmost left the company several
times over that, because I loveclarity.
Let me know what you want, howyou want it, when you want it,
and, man, we can go to town,we'll get it done and fast
(07:39):
forward a bit.
The company was chasing storms.
We were in central Texas, butwe would chase it to San Angelo
or we'd chase it to Louisiana.
We were doing work in SouthGeorgia for a while because a
huge storm was there and ahandful of guys were like, hey,
let's go.
And so we were kind of thisunwieldy animal, if you will,
that was selling a lot of roots.
(07:59):
We went from year one was368,000, lot of roots.
We went from year one was368,000, 1.5, 3 million, 6
million, 6 million, 6 million, 9million, 15 million and 20, 27
million and 21.
And like just these exponentialgrowth things and this year
(08:24):
we'll probably do 45 plus therewas a large storm in Elk County,
but we intentionally live andwork in a market that has Texas
has storms, but if you're justin Austin, then you only have
the Austin storm market.
We are intentionally from NorthSan Antonio to DFW because
wherever a storm hits in thatmarket, bird Creek is going to
be able to be there to helppeople out and help stabilize
(08:45):
the company financially so thatwe're not living and dying by
one neighborhood.
In April of 2017, I and EddieWillis we were speaking at an
internal conference within thecompany.
We had brought everybody fromLouisiana, south Georgia,
everybody in for a conference.
We had probably had probably 45, 60 guys there and for those
Texas folks, they know thatApril 15th 2021 was a very large
(09:07):
storm in Pflugerville, roundRock, georgetown area.
Probably 60, 70,000 homes gothit by very substantial hail and
it was during our break and Imade a comment to Nate during
our break.
I said you brought 40, 50 doorknocking fools from three
different states into my citywhen a storm hits.
And yes, half the company justgot hotel rooms here in Austin
(09:27):
and just you know, we'reknocking doors and we put the
roofs on.
It was a very fortunate event.
But at that event also, eddieand I did a session on processes
and systems.
Essentially we had some guys dosome other sessions we did on
processes and systems and therewas a consultant in the room
that day that Nate had who partof the company.
He said if you run the companylike Jacob and Eddie do, you'll
make a lot of money.
If you run it like the others,not so much.
(09:49):
So I kind of put a little bugin Nate's ear.
And then at the end of 21, wemade some shifts in the company
and the structure and Nate askedme to be the COO of the company
to help it develop processesand systems.
I was a great sales guy and Ihad a great sales team.
We were just crushing it and hewanted me to do for the company
what we did for the team.
(10:09):
And so we started doing thatand 21, I think it was about $27
, $28 million in revenue.
That went down to about $22million in 22.
But we didn't have that bigstorm and some of the team
members left.
We made that shift.
Um, but then 23 shot back upagain and 24 is doing what it's
doing.
We've got our market is fromNorth San Antonio to McKinney.
(10:31):
Our hub is Bell County, beltontemple and then Austin.
We've got a guy outside of Wacoguy in McKinney and I'm going
to continue to grow, uh, intothe DFW Houston San Antonio
market down the road.
Right now, probably about 30,40, about 30 guys doing it full
time and about 15 guys that are.
There's always that groupthat's like in the swirl.
(10:51):
You do guys have an end, figureit out, guys aren't working it
and and there's always gonna bethose in the swirl about 25, 30
guys who are dead set, seriouson this and sell a lot of roofs.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
The.
When we were talking three,four weeks ago I think, you said
something to me and it was likeit was a mindset thing and it
was without the days withoutproblems are the anomaly.
Right, the days withoutproblems are the anomaly.
And so you know and you talkedabout how you kind of were
(11:25):
tasked with hey, you're going tobe the process guy when you
became the COO you know how doyou bring alignment out of the
chaos of the day to day in theroofing industry.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, I think alignment is about clarity.
I think first one of the guysin McKinney his name is Jeff
Shannon he brought a phrase tous.
He said to be clear is to bekind.
I don't know where he got itfrom, but when he said that to
me it resonated.
To be clear is to be kind.
Fog about what's expected ofthem, what their job looks like,
(12:05):
what the day-to-day should looklike, about what sales goals
should look like, and we justkind of think they'll figure it
out.
It's not very kind to them ifwe're not clear to them about
what a successful career willlook like for them.
It's not kind to youroperations staff if there are
nine different ways that peopleare turning in contracts or
submitting documentation.
It's not kind of operations.
I'm huge on feedback.
(12:27):
The team that I led, and now thecompany as well, knows like I
have a index card that was on myJeep for a long time that said
what will be different next time?
Anytime that something didn'tgo the way we expected it to do,
expected it to, I would askthem what would be different
next time.
I'd let them know ahead of time.
I'd be asking that question sowhen it came to them they
wouldn't be surprised by it orfeel offended by it.
(12:47):
It was for their good that we'dbe sharing that, and so we'd
say what will be different nexttime.
And the backup of that was I'lltry harder is not an answer.
That's just not an answer.
It has to be.
There's something in the system,something in the process,
something in the approach thatdidn't work.
I didn't, and almost alwaysthere's something that's been
(13:07):
documented about what works thatthey did not do.
They didn't take the photos,they didn't check the job, they
didn't check the delivery beforethey started putting the roof
on.
They didn't follow up with thehome or whatever it might be.
They didn't edit the estimateand do a change order properly.
Almost always it falls to that.
We recently met with some folks.
In one of the phrases that theysaid that I really liked was
(13:27):
the system is the star.
And that doesn't mean thatpeople aren't important.
They absolutely are critical toan organization critical.
But the system is what isrepeatable.
The system is what is scalable.
The system is what frees us tobe successful in the business
that we're in.
Every quarter we have an allcompany meeting.
You asked me about how do Ireinforce these things?
(13:49):
Every quarter we have a companymeeting and, with no slights
toward folks who do like thebelt buckle for top salesmen,
that is wonderful.
Here's one of the great thingsabout roofing there are dozens
of ways to do this well.
There are dozens of companycultures.
There are dozens of types ofindividuals who will thrive in a
particular culture.
So anything I say today aboutthe culture that we exist in at
(14:10):
Burnt Creek Roofing is for us atthis time, in this context,
with full respect andappreciation for a variety of
ways that others do it.
But we recognize, with 30, 40guys, if you have only a belt
buckle for a guy every month orevery quarter, every year, it's
the same three guys constantlyfighting for the belt buckle.
We believe that your income isdirectly proportional to the
(14:32):
number of people that you helpand we believe that there is a
mission and our values that cometogether to bring about that
helping in that income.
And so for us, rather than dobelt buckles and things like
that, which are great if theothers are doing it, man, go to
town.
I really want to.
I'm not bashing anybody here, Iwant to be clear on that.
But we wanted to back it upfrom that and say what are the
(14:52):
behaviors, what's the culture,what's the vision that brings
those things about?
And how do I involve 40 peopleinto that contest, if you will?
What really is recognition?
And so our core values areinternally, our core value is
changing lives.
Externally, it's helping Texashomeowners.
The core values are generous,optimistic and driven.
So every quarter we have athing we call them the birdies
(15:13):
Think of them as the Dundies, ifyou like the office, the
Grammys, the Oscars, whatever.
We call them the birdies.
And every quarter we takesubmissions about people who
exemplify helping Texashomeowners.
They exemplify changing lives.
They exemplify being generous,being optimistic, being driven.
In every corner we share a storyfrom the front of one of our
meetings and I have this greenlanyard with a bronze circle
(15:37):
logo with the bird in the middleof it and it's like you're like
getting an Olympic medal if youwill.
And we present those as weshare the stories and I tell
everybody in the room thisperson exemplifies this in this
way.
If you want to grow in thatarea, go talk to Jim, bill,
susie, tammy, whoever it isabout that.
And then at the end of the year, at the Christmas party, we do
a golden birdies.
(15:57):
We take all those stories.
We share it.
We have a little birdie statue.
It's gold and it's not goldgold, it's colored gold.
So it's on a little statue andthey get the golden birdie.
Because we believe that sharingand celebrating mission, vision
and values is what gets us theresult.
If you're chasing the result,you're going to do it through a
(16:18):
myriad of ways that are going tobe difficult.
And then, internally, weborrowed this phrase from the
Navy SEALs slow is smooth,smooth is fast.
There's nothing revolutionaryin it, we just adopted it
because it worked.
If you stop and you take thatextra 30 seconds, 60 seconds, 90
seconds to properly documentand communicate to the
operations team what it is youneed, what you're looking for,
(16:40):
what the install message shouldbe, it's slow but it's smooth,
there's less friction in theoperations, they can run the job
project more clearly and itends up being faster at the end
than turning in a junk installmessage that creates emails and
messages and confusion and badwork product and it looks fast
but it's slow and it's costly.
(17:00):
And so we reinforce it throughsharing stories, celebrating
those stories, clarity on thefront end and then consistent
feedback.
When you see something out ofprocess, you say something.
You know there's this phrase ifyou see something, say
something.
That's used in a crime sense inNew York.
You see something bad, saysomething.
I think the world is in need ofpeople who see something good
(17:21):
and say something good about it.
And so in our company, when wesee something good, say
something good about it.
If you see something that's off, say something about it, and
then every member of the companyis authorized whatever you want
to call it to reinforce corevalues.
If you see something that's notgenerous, optimistic or driven,
you don't need to be me, youdon't need to be a team lead.
We can reinforce with oneanother what it looks like to be
(17:44):
that and do that.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
I love that.
So it sounds like the all ofthe, the, the system
systemization that you guys doon a daily basis comes back to
the core values.
Yeah, so it's like it's it'sit's built into the culture to
build the processes.
It's built into the culture tobuild the processes.
The see something, saysomething.
(18:08):
Isn't it amazing, jacob, howmany times we only see something
and say something about thenegative things?
Right?
So reinforcing the positivethings through the expression of
those core values is amazing.
I'm hearing that's so cool,well, real quick.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Jim, I'm hearing that that's so cool, Well, real
quick.
I'm sorry.
I think that's because leadersaren't clear in their own mind
and they haven't articulatedwhat it looks like to do the job
right, and so they can't seewhat it's like when it's right.
So they can't say what it'slike when it's right Cause they
haven't done their own work.
They can only say what's wrongbecause they know that they're
clear with that.
And so the leader first has toget clear in their own mind what
(18:47):
is right, what the process is.
They have to articulate it onpaper, they have to articulate
it in a video and then they haveto stay consistent with it,
because human beings will testyou on a regular basis to say
does boss really want it to gothis way?
Yeah, and there's this phrasethat if you let a standard slide
, you have set a new standard.
(19:10):
That's the new standard.
It's the new standard.
So you got to be clear.
But you also have to be kindwith people.
I have this trick that I do withsome of my guys.
They wouldn't take the rightjob photos.
You say, hey, here's what itlooks like the front, the back,
the right, the left, the fourcorners, there's a process for
it, and they wouldn't take thejob photos.
They'd say, hey, I need helpwith this particular job.
When you look at it.
I look at it and I'm like Idon't know what you want me to
do.
The photos aren't here.
(19:31):
And so one particular example Isent him a text message and I
said I love every one of you andI genuinely do.
I love the people that work forphotos.
And I said remember, I love you, but take the damn photos.
And then I send a ball up withthis and they know this.
I send them a picture of KeanuReeves playing with puppies.
(19:53):
And that's to say, I care aboutyou, just take the damn photos.
Here's a picture of KeanuReeves playing with puppies.
Know that I'm not mad at you.
I care for you.
I want you to do well.
Here's the pathway.
But the leaders first got to beclear what does doing it right
look like?
Speaker 1 (20:12):
yeah, and that and that.
That's challenging, right likeit's challenging.
A lot of times leaders orowners, visionaries, are all go,
they're like it, it's just go,just go, we'll break stuff along
the way, let's just go and andthey need that.
And it seems like what you have, you started or became in in in
(20:36):
Bird Creek, that integratorrole like the, the, the, the
person that that kind of sweepsit all together Like, hey, let's
no, no, no, let's take that, goand kind of put some restraint
on it and let's keep it withinhere so we don't go too far off
the rails.
Like you said, if you let asystem slide, you created a new
(20:59):
system or a standard.
I'm sorry, if you let astandard slip or slide, you
created a new standard.
And so you know, going as fastas a lot of companies do,
especially if a big storm hitssomething like that man, you
have to go because it's youropportunity, but there has to be
a feedback loop to get thingscreated in a more efficient way
(21:24):
and to serve the customer on ahigher level.
And so it's amazing.
Let's go a little bit deeperinto the feedback loop.
Let's go into, like a specificexample maybe of something that
has broke over the years, orrecently, however you want to do
whatever comes to mind whereit's like hey, this is a problem
(21:48):
that we faced or kept facing,and so and this is the feedback
loop and how we, how we got tothe other side of that.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, uh.
Well, there's no shortage of umchallenges or problems in the
industry.
Um, it is almost always uh goesback to clarity and um holding
people accountable to to theprocess.
Almost always, as a phrase weuse in preaching, a mist in the
(22:17):
pulpit is a fog in thecongregation.
So if it's unclear in here,it's definitely going to be
unclear out there.
The other thing we used to sayis is the time at which people
get tired of you saying the samething is the first time they
heard you say it, like youreally have to be, have
repetition and what you'recoaching them on and what you
(22:39):
want them to do, and at the timethey push back their first time
, their first time they heard it.
And the reason it's the firsttime they've heard it and
they're pushing back is becausenow it's challenging their
thoughts or their behavior.
Prior to that, they were justdismissing what you had to say.
It was in one ear and out theother.
Well, now you keep saying it somuch I have to deal with this.
My first response is stopsaying this because I don't want
(23:01):
to deal with this, but you haveto keep pushing through that
point For us as leaders.
We think the repetition isboring.
We think we're bored with it,really honestly, we think it's
boring to them.
But the truth is, as we've saidit so much, we're bored with it
.
But the leader has to pushthrough that boredom that he has
because he or she wants to keepgoing to the new thing.
You've got to stay consistent.
As far as a really specificscenario, um, you know, um, you
(23:28):
ever heard of the challenge of agrocery store when there's two
ketchups, it's easy to choose.
When there's three, 300ketchups, it's hard to choose.
So that's where I get in myhead right now.
Because of which of the 200regularly recurring challenges
that we have, is my brainlocking in on?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
While you're thinking about that, I've heard that
saying about like, the, the, the, about how many times you need
to say things for people to hearit.
And there was some.
I don't know what the study wasdone, but I heard the CEO of
JobNimus talk about it.
Was he asked you know why doyou, why do you do you guys know
why I say the same things overand over again?
And his, like his line, was youknow, because after I say it 10
(24:07):
times, about 60% of you willremember what I will actually
hear what I have said.
Right, so after sayingsomething 10 times, then people
actually like what you're saying.
It's kind of, it's when, right?
Another example of that whileyou're thinking is is, like you
know, you never see the car.
(24:30):
Like when you buy a new car.
All of a sudden, you see thatnew car everywhere, right, it's
like it's not in your mind,right?
So if it's, if it's just, youknow that car's just passing by.
That's the thought, theconversation that you're having
with your leadership or withyour team.
It's just going by them, butthen all of a sudden, it becomes
in their vision when it'simportant, or when it's that the
(24:51):
thing that they're dealing withtoday, or when they, if they
don't get that checklist filledout properly, their check
doesn't come on time or you knowthings like that.
So I think that you know thatthat repetition in is is is an
impactful thing to to comment on.
I wanted to call that out foreveryone listening like that man
(25:12):
.
It has to be consistent and ithas to be the same the same
message over and over and overagain enforcing the high
standards of your company, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
And I think, jim, what, what, what works is
consistency.
We, we tend to think, hey, Itried this for a couple of weeks
, they're not responding.
Hey, I went to this, I'm tryingthis, it's not responding.
You just keep touching downLike it's like a plane that just
like bam, I'm back up, bam, I'mback up.
You can't just keep touchingdown.
First off, it's a symptom of alack of clarity in the mind of
(25:44):
the leader that they don't knowthe vision that this is.
We know this.
It all returns back toleadership.
I'm in a coaching program andone of the things that the guy
says is if it's on your plate,you probably ordered it.
It's on your plate, youprobably ordered it.
So, whether you intended to ornot, you probably did so.
Consistency, I think, is themissing component in my life, my
(26:07):
relationships, the work lifethat we have.
Consistency is missing in allof those things.
Here's an example I would havein terms of that consistency and
that feedback loop Having aconsistent inspection process.
That at times is an unnecessaryset of steps on every single
roof.
It's an inspection for a leakover the back left living room.
(26:29):
I don't need to take the photosof the front, right, left, back
each, each corner.
I don't have to do all thewhole roof.
The problem is just right overthere and the house is 30
minutes away from me.
And then seven days later Isend them the repair quote for
it.
It's going to be x dollars andthey say you know, actually
maybe we'll just go ahead andreplace the roof.
Can you give me a bid on that?
I don't have have the photos.
I didn't document any damage.
(26:49):
I don't know if there's anyhail on this.
I don't know what to do withthis client.
I've got to now take time outof my day and go do another
drive over to the house that Iwas already at when I could have
took that 60, 90 seconds.
And sometimes the house isn't30 minutes away, sometimes it's
an hour away.
Our market is one hour east andwest of I-35.
That's our territory.
If we can get to it within anhour by 35, we're in the sweet
(27:10):
spot, but sometimes it's further, and so just the simplicity of
not taking job site photos.
In addition to that, I thinkit's the mental um difficulty or
energy drain of doing umsomething unique every time
you're at a house.
My operations guy describes itas a rembrandt instead of paint
by numbers every time you're ata house my operations guy
describes it as a RembrandtInstead of paint by numbers
(27:32):
every time you go to the house,it's a Rembrandt.
You're creating a new process,a new sales flow, a new
presentation, a new whatever.
And all of that has an energydraw on you and a confusion on
you.
But if you have a consistentprocess for communicating to the
homeowner when you're going toarrive, a consistent approach to
going to arrive, a consistentapproach to the door, a
consistent approach to theinspection, consistent approach
(27:53):
to the photos, you're just notthinking about it.
It becomes second nature.
And then that energy in yourmind, the thoughtfulness you
have, is available for that nextlevel sales stuff.
You're not thinking about theinspection, you're thinking
about the psychology of the salewith the homeowner.
You're thinking about what,what their needs are, what their
hopes are in this project, andyou're moving to the next level
of how you help this person.
(28:14):
But you have to do the basicsfirst.
Classic coach John Wooden, uclaBruins classic story.
Every time the new basketballseason came around, he started
with let me show you how to tieyour shoes.
These were grown adults who hewould teach how to tie their
shoes, as an example of thebasics, are always going to be
in.
They will always be helpful.
(28:36):
And if you can't do the basicswhen it's slow, you will not do
them.
When the storm hits, you justwon't.
And so you've got to do thebasics when they're slow, even
when it seems easy.
And if you could do the basicscan be more efficient.
And when it's slow, if youcould get the same production
out of 30 hours a week, wouldn'tyou rather do that than 50
hours a week?
I would.
I'd rather be more productive,and so I spent a lot of time
(28:58):
with guys going over what arethe basics of each process, each
step along the way, and how dothose basics serve?
You asked earlier and this tiesinto that you asked earlier
about how we reinforce.
One of the things we also do iswe do highlight people that are
successful at certain areas andwe show use cases of guys
following best practices andI'll say look, guys, I can show
(29:20):
you these top 10 salespeople.
They are compliant in theseareas.
The bottom 10 are not compliantin these areas.
I can show you the metrics fromcompliance to the process and
the system, and so we do that ona regular basis.
And then, of course, you've gotto do the granular coaching
that happens all the time.
The phrase that we use don'tknow where it came from.
(29:41):
Didn't create it.
Coach them up or coach them out.
You've got to coach them up todo better, to succeed, to meet
their sales goals, to meet theirobjectives, or coach them out
to some other career that isn'tgetting on a roof in 104 degrees
for six months out of summer inTexas.
There are easier ways to make$80,000, $90,000.
(30:01):
And that's the low end.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, that's the low end, right.
Yeah, there's a lot to that.
There was a couple of things Iwanted to touch on there, and
the upper out right Holdingpeople accountable to the
process.
Where's the line there?
How do you define that?
(30:27):
How do you think about that?
How do you think of, how do youdetermine yep, this is the
person like, this is the personthat I want to coach up.
How do you determine when it'stime to coach them out?
Speaker 2 (30:49):
and it's going to be follow through with the basics.
For instance, we have a 90-dayquick start that we're beginning
.
Actually, this isn't somethingwe've had before.
We're starting it, but I'vebeen doing it.
I just call it a 90-day quickstart.
I've had it before in my headand I've done it with folks, but
now we're modifying it.
If you will, we're rolling itout throughout the entire
company as we switch to W2 inOctober.
It'll be a codified thing, butessentially it's this what are
(31:11):
the behaviors that are necessaryto be successful at this?
I don't need 90 days to findout you won't do that.
I don't need 90 days to findout you won't knock a door, that
you won't put together friendsand family lists, that you won't
show up at the ride-alongs,that you won't do the video
training, that you won'twhatever.
I don't need 90 days to do that.
I also have built into some ofour hiring process a few things
(31:33):
they need to do at theapplication stage that I don't
really care what the data says.
I need to see them do it.
I need to see that they canfollow the process of an email.
If they don't, hey, you'reprobably a great guy, but you're
not the one for me.
So coachability has got to bethere.
You have to be willing tolisten, be coached in the basics
of things.
You know we, and it doesn'tmatter whether he's the top
(31:57):
sales guy or the bottom salesguy.
The top sales guy still has todo it and I have had people that
I've been willing to let walkthat are $2 million producers,
because I'm trying to sell 40,50 million.
I'm not trying to sell two orthree.
Now I realize different folksare in different contexts, have
(32:17):
to make different decisions.
We have a guy right now who isan exceptional salesperson, the
guy we teach, know, like andtrust.
We want people to know you,like you, trust you.
We picked that up from BNI, thenetworking organization that
we're part of.
We have 14 guys in a BNI inCentral Texas highly believe in
it no, like and trust.
So I just kept that.
(32:37):
We teach our guys that he knowshow to establish that with
homeowners.
He 100% does.
He knows how to care for them,how to take care of them.
He's a bit of a turd to people.
He's a bit of a turd, um, hecan be short, he can be
judgmental, he can be arrogant.
He's excellent at his job if hedoesn't feel like you're good
(32:59):
or you're committed, he can cutyou down.
And he wanted to be, wants totake that next step, and so we
had to have that conversationabout him, his life, his heart.
Um, I have to ask myself, do Iwant 10 other guys like you?
Because leaders recreatethemselves and we had some
really great conversation aboutit.
And this is a guy that had anopportunity to go anywhere.
(33:20):
He wanted to and sell a lot ofroofs and make a lot of money,
but, in short, he feels thatBird Creek Roofing is helping
him become a better person, abetter dad, a better human, a
better man, helping him grow,and I have watched that guy in
the last four or five monthsgrow in incredible ways.
I'm really excited about thatguy.
(33:43):
He was coachable.
He was already hitting the youknow, dotting the I's, crossing
the T's.
You've got to be coachable.
Had he not been responsive, Ilovingly would have coached him
out.
When I say lovingly, I don'tmean that in some kind of weak
way.
I genuinely care about him.
I genuinely care about thepeople who work for us.
So for me, you've got to becoachable.
(34:05):
You've got to be.
I forget the author of the book,but it's Humble, hungry, smart
is the title.
You got to be humble, hungryand smart.
Humble is huge for us.
It's not one of our core values, but if there was a core values
B list, humble, hungry andsmart would be on it and I
needed him to be humble in that.
And we're going to do somegreat things, yeah.
(34:27):
But then I got other guys whohave all the humility in the
world.
They can't figure it out.
And so one of thoseresponsibilities is for us to
adjust what I expect consultantsto do in the whole gamut of
being a roofing consultant.
What things can I take off oftheir plate so that more people
fit the job description?
(34:47):
Because if I have 20 things theguy's got to be able to do,
there might be five percent ofthe market that can do that.
But if I can narrow that downto seven things, eight things,
nine things, ten things, andthen 50 of the market,
employment market can do that,and so we're at a journey of
pulling some things from themand taking them in-house to help
them be able to turn and sellmore regularly.
(35:08):
The whole company company, fromthe time I came on in April of
17, has been from individualsales guys generally running
everything from you knowbeginning to end, and you've got
to find a bunch of unicorns todo it and they all do it their
own unique way.
Homeowners have a differentsales experience.
Consultants have a differenttraining experience and it
(35:28):
becomes difficult to reign inthat.
Consultants have a differenttraining experience and it
becomes difficult to reign inthat growth and have a clean
process and good relationships.
And so over the years 2024 forme, the one word I had for Bird
Creek was sophistication.
We're going to become moresophisticated as a company.
We're going to grow up as acompany, become more mature as a
company, and so we've beenspending time on that.
(35:51):
We've brought in the new rightpeople director of operations.
We'll have a new sales directorstarting in January, brought in
a new senior production guy andthat is freeing me up to work
on things that I call companykillers, compliance, cashflow,
lawsuits, liability, things likethat, and I'm currently working
on those things.
So that's been a reallyfantastic switch for us.
(36:11):
But yeah, I got off track there, but I gave you a little extra,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
No, but that's great and I want to go into this a
little bit more.
I love what you talk aboutsimplifying the positions,
narrowing the focus of theposition so that more people can
be successful in that position.
I want that is a that is a verykey takeaway for people to
(36:36):
listen to.
You know there are very there.
There are many there.
There's, like I think you saidit earlier in the podcast.
There's a lot of ways to runthis business right.
Like there's no one way to runthis business.
You have to have, you can haveyour own, your own unique spin
on it and be successful.
I know companies doing 30, 40,50, 60 with their reps doing
(36:58):
cradle to grave.
Their reps are doing everything.
They're running the job sitesthey're doing so.
There's not one way, but Ithink, for people to think about
how they want to develop theircompany.
This is a unique thing for themto think about.
(37:19):
Simplify equals more rein inthe number of bullet points in
that job description of theseare your job duties.
If you can limit that list,there will be more people that
will be able to do that listWell.
I should add well to it.
(37:39):
Should I add well to it, jacob?
Absolutely, absolutely Want themto do it well, do it well, and
so you kind of mentioned it onthe sales rep side.
But are you doing the samething on the production side
with your office team?
Is that a focus throughout thecompany?
And then, how are you lookingat that?
(38:01):
How are you looking at aposition and going, okay, if I
take this out, this out and thisout, I can hire three more
people and they'll be much moreefficient at it.
But if?
But, it's going to be hard forme to find a person that does
this, this and this well, howare you guys going about that?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah Well, first off, clarity again in the process.
Clarity in the operatingprocedures for not just sales
staff but also production staff.
Again, missed in the mind is afog in the congregation.
Same thing for production staff.
They want clarity in that aswell.
(38:41):
Historically, what created thedifficulty in that clarity was
the fact that you had 30, 40guys out there turning in a
variety of quality in terms oftheir job submissions, and that
makes things more difficult.
So you've got to help the salesside to also help the
production side.
So clarity in the standardoperating procedures, creating
creation of job aids.
In addition to that, how do weuse technology to help minimize
(39:02):
mistakes, help createefficiencies?
The director of operations Ihave he is a 25 year mortgage
bank VP.
He's started his own, done hisown.
He talks about production ofroofs, similar to the production
of loan applications.
You get a bunch of paperworkthat comes in.
You've got to run it through asystem and you've got to have an
(39:23):
output, and that process has tobe as clear on the front end
and as smooth as possible.
So you shorten the deliverywindow, shorten the production
timeline and you produce happyhomeowners on the front end and
as smooth as possible.
So you shorten the deliverywindow, shorten the production
timeline and you produce happyhomeowners on the back end.
That's our key goal Happyhomeowners on the back end.
I have sat in so many rooms ofpeople who just are shocked when
(39:44):
I say this we did 30 millionlast year on $47,000 in
marketing.
Now I'm sorry to say that herefor you, jim, you're wonderful.
You're fantastic.
I adore.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
It's just different.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
You are 1000% correct .
We do referral marketing.
We use Matt Danskin'srestoration referral service
program for insurance agents.
We teach people how to workwith realtors.
We teach people how to vet therealtor on the front end and how
to cut them early if they'rejust taking advantage of you.
If you can get a handful ofreally loyal, good realtors and
(40:19):
you can serve them well, it's abeautiful pipeline.
If you're not sure how to vetthem, how to cut them, how to
keep them, it's going to gopoorly.
But we also teach a very strongreferral expectation.
We normalize referrals.
The very first thing I say toyou at the door is hey, I'm so
glad that Susie told you to callme.
We rely on referrals and I'mglad that you're going to get
(40:44):
the same service that Susie got.
And I can't wait for the end ofthis that you get to tell your
friends about it just like Susiedid.
It's normal.
Everybody's giving referrals ifyou're happy with the product,
the service you received.
Know, like and trust starts atthe very beginning we all know
this and it carries through tothe end.
We don't always nail it, but wewant to do well and nail that.
So we're trying to get thisthrough sales, production, the
(41:05):
back end there's a lot of batonshandling off.
It has to be clear.
So, internally, as far as howwe're helping production.
Again, clarity is kindness inthat.
In addition to that, we alsowant to look at how tech solves
those issues.
We're running into the pointright now that our CRM and I
won't name them because I don'tfeel like I need to dog anybody
out here today Every CRM has itspros and cons.
(41:30):
Everyone's always what's thebest one?
Nah, what's the best one foryou right now?
The size you are and the waythat you run your company,
Because some CRMs will not workthe way that you run it.
They will be a problem.
And so we are actually in theprocess of working with a
bespoke custom build aroundHubSpot.
That'll take about a year or soto build out, because we are in
(41:52):
our case.
Our CRM and I think all of themare.
Their bread and butter is $2 to$8 million roofing companies in
the processes and complexitiesthat come with that.
A $30 million plus roofingcompany has different
complexities.
Not good, not better.
I'm not better than anybody,we're not better.
We're just just differentcomplexities, different needs
that it has and those CRMs.
(42:13):
I constantly do feedback andtalk with them and and they say,
hey, put something in thefeedback deal, and I'm like
that's where ideas go to die.
Talk with them and they say,hey, put something in the
feedback deal, and I'm likethat's where ideas go to die.
The problem is is there's only asmall handful of companies that
have that need of thatcomplexity?
Most of the clients are rightin the middle and of course,
they're going to serve thatclient.
I just have to have thematurity and insight to
(42:33):
recognize that I'm not theirbest client.
Yes, I give them a lot of money, but I'm not their bread and
butter client.
So we need to move out.
So we're making that shift tohelp the operations team do
better.
We stand behind the operationsteam very strongly A lot of
times.
Sales guys want to create alittle bit of enmity between the
two parties from time to time,and your production team needs
to know that you have their back.
(42:53):
Whether it's the top sales guyor the worst sales guy.
They need to know that yousupport them, that you recognize
them, and so they also areeligible for birdies.
We gave birdies to twoproduction team members this
last week, this last uh session.
You were not just celebratingsales people.
We've got.
The whole gamut of the wholecompany needs to be recognized.
Everybody plays a part in thecore values of that.
(43:13):
Um and again, same thing.
Um, if your work product slips,we need to have a conversation.
We had a gentleman the other daywho responded to a text message
in a way that was not generous,and so I took a screenshot,
sent it to one of the guys andsaid, hey, would you chat about
it?
And he did.
(43:34):
He didn't recognize, he cameoff that way off, that way.
He didn't intend to.
He was in the thick of it, busy, and he responded in a way that
was short and curt and hey,let's stop.
Slow is smooth, Smooth is fast,not just in production, but in
the relationship.
Stop, slow down, take a second,be clear, be kind, say a little
(43:54):
different and then keep onmoving.
And so, yeah, clarity, feedback, celebration.
The same Again.
You said earlier, the corevalues are the lens through
which we make decisions, thelens through which we coach,
it's the lens through which wecompensate, it's the lens
through which we do everything.
(44:15):
If they're core values, thenyou see through them.
These, these glasses, are mycore values.
I see through them more clearly, and so if they're your core
values, if they're what you'reabout, then let them be the lens
to which you make thosedecisions, so they all get the
same coaching process yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Another thing that you talked about and I really
like to talk to people about,like marketing, isn't just
prospecting for new clients.
What you guys are doing in thebirdies and the things like that
, that's marketing to yourcurrent team members, and you
would talk to me I think wetalked about that.
(44:57):
You have a high level ofretention.
You have like your ability toretain in that manner, because
people are so bought in.
And now, speaking to the like,if you take the recognition off
of just the sales number and youturn that recognition to the
core value, the production teammember and the sales team member
(45:20):
can both participate in thatrecognition.
So, if it's sorry, what was it?
The exact words I can'tremember were to make a home
like the homeowner experience.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Oh yeah, help Texas homeowners.
The value and the production ofthe backend is to make more
happy homeowners, that's right.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
So make more happy homeowners right, like there's
two things, there's two, twopeople or multiple, the whole
company can get an award forthat right.
They could get an award forselling more roofs because
you're helping more homeowners,you can get a.
You know, if you're, if you'redoing an exceptional job on the
production side, you're helpingmore homeowners.
(45:58):
If you're the person in theoffice answering the phone,
setting appointments, dealingwith any issues that are coming
in any gaps in conversation withthe homeowners, you're dealing
with that.
Maybe the supplementing team,like everyone on the team, can
(46:18):
be rewarded for that.
So I think that's a really,really cool thing that you guys
are doing.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
It's critical that they all feel that they're a
part of that.
Otherwise it's a tiered valuekind of deal, and that's not
what we're going for here.
No, not at all.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
I saw a post on Facebook recently and it was
just this like kind of about thejourney.
It's everyone starts offterrible at something, right.
Then you get, you know, like alittle bit of competency in it,
and then you become competent init, and then you become good at
it, and then you become greatat it.
And then, after you're great atit, people are like, oh my
(47:01):
goodness, like this is soamazing that you're great at
this, but they, they don't lookat those steps in between.
So I want to ask you, if youwere to start over, right, like
if you were to start over withthe knowledge that you have now
being great at something, if youwere to start over, what would
you do differently?
Speaker 2 (47:19):
great at something.
If you were to start over, whatwould you do differently?
Yeah, that's, I'm not trying tododge the question by any means
.
It becomes difficult to reallyassess critically the soil that
birthed you.
If you will, it is.
Yeah, there's a very realpossibility that if I were to by
myself, I wasn't involved withNate.
(47:39):
Possibility that if I were tobuy myself, I wasn't involved
with Nate.
If I were to start a company,there's a possibility I might be
insufferable at first, if we'rehonest with ourselves, because
how you coach, how you lead andwho comes in to lead at a
particular time, context, space,the resources, the people you
(48:00):
have that's critical.
There are people who can startthings but don't run them when
they get to a certain size.
We knew this in church planting.
There were guys who couldpioneer and they get stuck in
the living room in a core phaseand couldn't get past 12 people
because they were great having aone-on-one conversation, but
they couldn't stand back andspeak to 200, 300 or a thousand
people.
They couldn't do that.
(48:21):
And then there are people whocan speak to a thousand that can
never speak the one-on-one.
They're uncomfortable, theireyes dart away all the time.
Nate's character, hisgenerosity, his winsomeness, his
just affable charisma, if youwill, drew together men, and
primarily men, but men and womenwho wanted to work for him.
(48:43):
Now I've started businesses.
I've I've run nonprofits, I'vestarted churches.
I've certainly been able todraw those folks in, but what
I've drawn in the same folksthat he did.
I don't know if I were to startthis out again, though what I
am 100% certain on is that Iwould do the work to understand
my market, and when I say mymarket I don't even mean just
(49:04):
Austin.
So we're in the Austin market.
There's a neighborhood that Ilived in for several years has
6100 homes.
Average 95 percent owneroccupied.
Average income is two hundredand forty thousand dollars.
That and the homes were alleight pitch and more, 38 squares
and more.
I can bust my tail in aneighborhood with a bunch of 20
(49:24):
square, five pitch walkables,and after work I hell of a lot
harder than this other area.
So I know my market, and notjust that.
I know there's a bunch ofpeople talking about the five
mile famous and stuff.
I don't know when it started.
I was talking about five milefamous seven years ago ago.
I also call it hyperlocal.
It's a hyperlocal focus.
It's this idea that if there'stwo people in southeast Austin,
(49:46):
two people in southwest, twopeople in northeast, two people
in northwest, but if I haveeight people all in the same
hyper local area that know meand love me, the likelihood of
being seen and hit isexponentially higher.
And I'm going to have three orfour people say call Jacob.
(50:08):
So in the neighborhood I was in, every roofer in the
neighborhood had one, maybe two.
I would have seven, eight, nine, 10 people who would say Jacob,
jacob.
I win that all the time.
I win it, and so thatneighborhood helped me be
incredibly so.
I don't want to say the name ofthe neighborhood, let's call it
Johnson City.
I wanted to be Johnson City,famous when you thought of
(50:29):
roofing, and that wasn't a city,it was just a neighborhood.
When you were in thatneighborhood and you thought of
roofing, I wanted you to call me, I wanted to own it and I can
do seven inspections whilepeople are driving all over
Timbuktu trying to get on threeor four roofs.
You see my signs all over theplace.
So I would absolutely start ina very hyperlocal area.
I would do the demographicresearch to find out where the
type of client and the type ofroof that I want to get started
(50:51):
is.
I would start there.
I would start with clarityaround the mission, the vision
about who I am, about thecomponents that make up a
successful salesperson.
Nate will tell you that hedidn't do a bunch of brand
marketing, he didn't do a bunchof core value assessments, he
didn't meet with a consultantand do all this kind of stuff.
He said I want to help Texashomeowners.
(51:12):
That's it, helping Texashomeowners?
He said I want to work withpeople who are generous,
optimistic and driven.
Over the years we have foundthat that specific makeup of
people who are generous,optimistic and driven.
Over the years we have foundthat that specific makeup of
people who are generous.
They have an abundance mindsetrather than a scarcity mindset.
They're generous in spirit,with one another and how we
handle interactions or friction.
They're optimistic.
(51:32):
I don't want to work with abunch of people.
This is a hard job.
You're going to knock a hundreddoors and a hundred of them
might say, no, you've got tobelieve the next door is going
to be it.
I don't want to work with abunch of yours being pessimistic
and driven.
It's OK, I get it.
I don't want to show my.
I don't want to have everybodyshow up to the office at 7 am
and watch David Goggins videosto pump them up for the day.
(51:52):
I don't want to have to babysitpeople on their metrics tricks.
So the fact that we hire andassess in the hiring process for
helpful people who are generous, optimistic and driven kind of
takes the gate.
Like this If your vision isthis, everybody's on board it.
But as you tighten and clarifyvision, you find people who are
standing outside of it andvision and clarity purifies the
(52:17):
group of people you have.
It purifies and it says you'rejust, you're not a good fit,
it's okay.
I have a guy who I genuinely so.
We're not, we're not cradle tograve, but we're not turning a
contract and walk away.
I have a guy that I honestlythink if he went to go work for
a company that was turning acontract and walk away, he'd
(52:37):
thrive, he would crush.
He's selling a lot of roofs forus right now, but the backend
stuff is hard for him.
I think he'd crush if he wentto another company that was like
that.
So that's why I can also sayhonestly there's a dozen ways to
do this.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
There's a bunch of different type of people and
there's different contextsyou're going to fit in.
Sometimes we can malign theperson who led the other company
when in reality, it just wasn'tthe right fit for us, and
that's okay.
So for me, clarity of my market, clarity by mission and vision,
clarity of my core values andthen I'm going to speak that to
as many potential people as Ican, and those who resonate with
(53:14):
it are going to be drawn to it.
Those who don't resonate withit, go in peace, man.
Go in peace.
In the meantime, I'm going tosell a lot of roofs and I'm
going to make a lot of money,and I'm going to tell you, at
every new recruit that workedfor me, I told him this I know
how to sell a lot of roofs.
I know how to like a lot ofmoney.
If you do everything I say whenI say how I say, you too can
(53:36):
make a lot of money in about ayear, year and a half.
You can come up with your ownlittle shtick.
You can be more, but we'll talkthrough that.
I said, but by the time I thinkyou get to a year and a half
down the road, you're going tofall in love with the way I
showed you how to do it, becauseit's easy, it's clear, it's
consistent and you're going tomake a lot of money and you're
going to show proof of concept.
If you will, I'd start that way.
(54:02):
Yeah, that's the best answer Igot for you in this moment.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
It's a great answer.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
I'll write you a better answer.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
It's a great answer, jacob.
This has been another episodeof the Roofing Success Podcast.
Thank you for tuning into theRoofing Success Podcast.
For more valuable content,visit roofingsuccesspodcastcom
While there, check out oursponsors for exclusive offers,
shop for merchandise and sign upfor our newsletter for industry
(54:29):
updates and tips.
Also join the Roofing SuccessFacebook group to connect with
other professionals and stayupdated on the latest trends.
If you enjoyed this episode,please subscribe, like, share
and leave a comment.
Your support helps us continueto bring you top industry
insights.
The website link is in thedescription.
Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.