November 16, 2024 • 49 mins
Empowering Inclusive Careers in Hospitality: Insights and Strategies
In this insightful episode of Room for All, hosts Andrea and Saraya engage in an enlightening discussion with Sofia Ballone, Employment Manager at Hotel Etico, about the importance of inclusive hiring practices in the hospitality industry. The episode delves into Sofia's background, her passion for human rights, and her commitment to aiding trainees with disabilities in securing meaningful employment. The conversation highlights the evolving landscape of employment, tackling barriers such as staff shortages, immigration policies, and outdated recruitment processes. Emphasizing practical work experience and innovative recruitment strategies, the episode offers actionable solutions for integrating individuals with disabilities into the workforce. Sofia shares the significance of extending work experience, providing support for complex hiring processes, and leveraging government funding for necessary workplace adaptations. The cultural benefits of inclusivity are underscored through case studies and real-world examples, demonstrating the positive impacts on workplace dynamics and employer attitudes. The episode concludes with a motivational note on resilience and persistence, encouraging employers to embrace inclusivity and listeners to stay tuned for more inspiring content.
00:00 Welcome to Room for All
01:44 Meet Sophia Ballone
02:22 Sophia's Role at Hotel Etico
03:31 Sophia's Background and Inspiration
07:27 The Importance of Inclusive Hiring
13:56 Challenges and Misconceptions in Hiring
27:15 Exploring Innovative Tools in Hospitality
28:02 Impact of Employing Individuals with Disabilities
31:50 Training and Support for Employers
37:51 Challenges in Creating Lasting Careers
39:40 Support Systems and Employer Collaboration
42:17 Encouraging Inclusive Hiring Practices
44:22 Personal Reflections and Closing Remarks
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrea (01:28):
Hello, everyone.
We are back in Room for All.
Welcome to Episode two of Seasonone for Room for All.
We're here at Hotel Etico andI'm here with my co host, Saraya
O'Connell.
Saraya (01:42):
Hi, everyone.
Andrea (01:43):
Hi, Saraya.
And today, first in the studio,in person, is our special guest,
our, Great colleague, SophiaBallone.
Hi, Sophia.
How are you?
Sophia Ballone (01:55):
Good, thanks.
Hi, everyone.
Andrea (01:57):
Welcome.
Welcome to Room for All, theinclusion in hospitality
podcast.
Saraya (02:02):
How does it feel to be our first in person guest?
Sophia Ballone (02:07):
Yeah, I wish I wish you had picked someone
else.
Saraya (02:12):
Yeah.
Andrea (02:12):
That's how we roll, Sophia.
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (02:14):
I know I've learnt that already.
Saraya (02:15):
It has to be comfortable and the discomfort.
Andrea (02:18):
That's right.
So why don't you get us started,Saraya?
Saraya (02:22):
So, Sophia, um, first question is I want you to
introduce yourself and what youdo with Hotel Etico, Okay, um,
and just tell us a little bitabout you.
Andrea (02:32):
who
Saraya (02:33):
is Sofia Ballone?
Yeah, who is she?
What does she do besides lookingfabulous in pink?
Sophia Ballone (02:37):
Oh, thank you.
who am I?
I guess first and foremost myrole here is Employment Manager.
I, feel like I am the tiebetween the training and the
work.
The industry.
I help the guys find employmentonce they finish up here, with
their 52 weeks of training and,yeah, help them prepare for that
(02:58):
transition as well, and duringthat transition, and then just
keep tabs on them once they, areactually settled in, so.
that's,
Saraya (03:07):
Yeah, it is a big job and it is probably one of our
most, needed jobs.
Cause if that, if your roledidn't exist, then we wouldn't
be
Andrea (03:17):
That's right.
That's The, uh, the proof ofsuccess for the model is, uh,
that uh, graduates secureemployment and, um, and hold
employment.
Sophia Ballone (03:26):
Yeah.
No pressure guys.
Saraya (03:28):
Yeah, no pressure.
Andrea (03:30):
So far, The results are fantastic.
So, but Sophia, tell us a littlebit about more about yourself.
First of all.
Can you put to rest once and forall how you pronounce your name?
For the general public.
Sophia Ballone (03:43):
Ballone.
Sofia Ballone.
Andrea (03:45):
Ballone.
Okay.
And where does the name comefrom?
Sophia Ballone (03:48):
it's Italian.
but my parents are fromArgentina.
So my dad's side was, I believe,third generation Argentinian.
So, that's where the surnamecomes from.
But
Andrea (03:59):
So tú hablas español.
Sophia Ballone (04:00):
Sí.
Andrea (04:01):
Muy bien.
Saraya (04:02):
Keep going.
We could just do this wholepodcast in Spanish.
Sophia Ballone (04:05):
Yeah, but You wouldn't you wouldn't be
included.
Saraya (04:07):
That's fine.
That's cool.
Andrea (04:09):
I actually, yesterday talking about it, I was saying
I'm going to introduce Sophia inSpanish.
And then I forgot about it,Okay.
Saraya (04:18):
We always say a lot of things.
Oh yeah, we should do this, weshould do that.
Andrea (04:20):
So who's Sophia the person?
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself personally.
Saraya (04:25):
what inspired you to work for Hotel Etico?
Sophia Ballone (04:28):
Well, um, as a person, I guess I am most
importantly a mum to my littleman, william, um, who keeps me
on my toes constantly.
Um, and outside of that, I am avery creative person.
Andrea (04:46):
Very colourful,
Sophia Ballone (04:47):
Yes, yes, I I, I am quite well known for my
colorful hair, although it's,it's due for an update and yes,
and clothes.
I like to be as authentic aspossible for who I am in
expressing myself, in my beliefsand I guess that also speaks to
(05:08):
why I was inspired to join, um,Hotel Etico family.
We, yeah, I, from a young age Iknew that I wanted to do
something that was meaningful,something that, worked with
human rights in some capacity.
originally, when I first lefthigh school, I wanted to go
into, law and actually studyhuman rights and become a human
(05:30):
rights lawyer.
but my, I guess my journey tookme a different way and I fell in
love with, you know, Manage,management, well, managing and
management.
so that's how I kind of landedin HR.
and I like the human aspect ofit, I'm, One of my, I guess,
interests outside of everythingis, psychology, so I majored
(05:51):
that in, my degrees.
And, yeah, I just somehow,through the waves of life, um,
found my way in HR, and then,was lucky enough to meet you
guys as, an employer.
Andrea (06:08):
Well, guess what, Sophia?
Your journey actually got youexactly in the heart of the
human rights.
Behind us, on that frame,there's a certificate of award
from the Human Rights Commissionbecause Hotel Etico in 2022 won
Human Rights Award.
So I think, it was, it was meantto be.
(06:31):
It was meant to be.
you're in the right place forsure.
Saraya (06:35):
I'm super grateful.
I knew from the first time I metyou that there was something and
I was like, Ooh, she needs to beat Hotel Etico.
so I'm super, super grateful tohave you.
I think you're amazing.
Andrea (06:48):
Before joining Hotel Etico, what were you doing?
Sophia Ballone (06:52):
Work wise?
I was in, I was a HR generalistat Fullerton Hotel Sydney.
Andrea (06:58):
The Fullerton, which is one of our partners, right?
So you knew our program, youknew our graduates, you knew us.
so it was a great segue in a wayinto, into the next step of your
career, I think.
Saraya (07:12):
Um, in today's podcast we've probably got so much to
cover when it comes to what youdo and how you do it and
employers and stuff.
So we will try to keep, probablyneed another.
45 minutes.
We'll do another episodeprobably.
but like, I think the biggestthings that we want to cover
today is the importance ofinclusive hiring.
(07:33):
We want to get some takeawaysfor our listeners for that.
creating pathways from jobs tocareers.
So, you know, we talk all thetime that we don't just, we
don't want our trainees to gointo jobs.
We want them to go into careers.
and then.
some takeaways for best practicefor businesses to be able to
actually implement and hiresomebody with a disability.
(07:53):
So, we're probably going to needa few episodes of this one, but
I think we'll, we'll try and atleast give, uh, quite a lot of
takeaways.
Andrea (08:03):
So, inclusive hiring.
Saraya (08:06):
Why?
I mean, we're, We're preachingto the choir here, us three.
cause the choir?
Isn't that
Andrea (08:13):
you're preaching to the converted.
Sophia Ballone (08:15):
No, no, no, it's choir.
Andrea (08:17):
I don't know.
Sophia Ballone (08:20):
Yeah, because if you preach to the choir, you're
preaching to people that alreadybelieve that are part of the
congregation that is there.
Saraya (08:27):
Soph, if I have never loved you more.
Because I get
Andrea (08:32):
Let's agree to disagree.
Yeah, we will have to.
I get all my metaphors
Saraya (08:36):
wrong.
Like, um, there was one and I,for a year, he's been teasing me
about it.
Something about salt.
Uh, I don't want to share it.
It was so dumb.
But like, it was dumb.
But for my entire life I wasdumb.
Andrea (08:47):
Now let's take this with a grand assault.
That was Saraya's line insteadof let's take this with a grain
of salt.
With a grand assault.
Which doesn't work either, itdoesn't make sense.
Saraya (09:06):
Keep in mind, right, I probably heard that metaphor and
I'm 40 percent deaf and I readlips so like I probably just
make up my own stuff all thetime but thank you for proving
that I just got a metaphor rightbecause that actually means the
world to me.
Andrea (09:21):
So why do you believe that inclusive hiring practices
are essential for thehospitality industry?
Sophia Ballone (09:27):
I think the most obvious one is how staff how
much we are lacking staff in thehospitality industry, the
necessity and requirement forhow, and just yesterday I was
looking at a video saying howmany more hotels we're going to
(09:47):
need within New South Wales.
Andrea (09:49):
40, 000 beds or something, right?
Sophia Ballone (09:51):
Yeah.
Like if we're struggling alreadynow to be filling our hotels
with the right amount of staff,then let's be honest, if we open
the doors.
that many more rooms.
It's going to be a necessity.
And, the, I guess the, the bestthing about opening that door
to, being a bit more inclusiveand getting people with
(10:14):
disability in is that it's awhole pool of people.
Andrea (10:18):
It opens up another pool.
Sophia Ballone (10:19):
Yeah.
Um, and it's not just a poolthat, is rotating, like say your
students that continuouslyrotate every, depends on what
kind of visa, what kind ofcourse they're doing, but it can
be between every six months orevery, three years.
And that longevity is not a goodsolid plan, but with, um, people
(10:44):
with disability, they're,they're keen, they're excited,
they're, interested in working,which is not the same
enthusiasm, at least I foundwhen I was in HR trying to
recruit.
their dedication, their loyaltyis next to none.
Andrea (10:59):
And if we combine that at government policy level with
immigration tightening, and sothere's yeah.
Uh, migrants coming.
and we student numbers arereducing as well, because the
government is reducing thatbecause of the housing housing
crisis.
There's a perfect storm in termsof having lack of staff.
Sophia Ballone (11:18):
Yeah.
Andrea (11:19):
And as you said, biggest pain point for the industry is
staff.
And so that's where I suppose wecome in and, inclusive practices
help address that businessproblem.
Saraya (11:32):
And I think the difference is, is that we are
training skilled staff.
So we're not asking people tohire our graduates just to tick
a box, we have skilled staff,like our, they've been with us
for a year, they're training, intheir elective, like, there's
(11:53):
such a shortage of staff.
skilled staff, within thehospitality space.
I mean, and you know, you canteach hospitality, don't get me
wrong, you can walk in entrylevel hospitality, but to
actually have staff that can Youknow, already know the
processes, already know theprocedures.
Andrea (12:10):
They've worked.
Saraya (12:11):
They've worked.
for a year in hospitality andthat's a long time sometimes the
people in hospitality.
I remember a turnover in one ofthe restaurants that I worked in
was like two weeks.
People were lasting two weeksbecause they just couldn't cut
it.
I mean, it was a hotheaded chef.
but they couldn't cut it.
They really couldn't, theycouldn't work.
that, you know, you're on yourfeet all day.
(12:31):
it's a hard job.
Hospitality is a hard business.
Sophia Ballone (12:34):
Yeah, and it's it's surprising how many people
go into it thinking that It's aneasy job that will get them cash
while they're studying or whilethey're in between something Um,
and I think that's also part ofthe problem that you don't have
people that are passionate asmuch as What it used to be
Andrea (12:53):
and the opportunities within the tourism and
hospitality industry are huge
Saraya (12:58):
to make a career as well.
Andrea (12:59):
You can come in and go from pouring a beer or cleaning
floor all the way up to ageneral manager or Managing
multiple hotels and anything inbetween
Saraya (13:10):
from accounting to anything.
Andrea (13:13):
Back of house, front of house.
Sophia Ballone (13:14):
Yes.
Yeah, there's it's um, it's aworld in itself.
Yeah.
I, that's probably one of myfavorite things about
hospitality.
Um, and, um, when I was workingin bigger hotels is that the
reality is you know, in that onelittle space, you have
everything.
You have business, you have, um,You have tradies, your chefs,
(13:38):
and your, um, team from theengineering teams.
You have your front liners, youlike, you have your middle
management, your uppermanagement.
You deal with absolutely everysingle kind of person that you
can.
potentially would be in theexternal world, but within that
one space.
Andrea (13:55):
A hundred percent.
Saraya (13:56):
So when I was, um, traveling with Destination New
South Wales, one of the thingsthat came up was recruitment of
people with a disability and,and how to actually make the
recruitment process moreinclusive.
Like, I know that we train ourgraduates, like we prep them,
you know, we do mock interviews,we do resume training, resume
(14:16):
building and all of that.
And I think that that's reallyimportant because they're really
big life skills.
Yeah.
but what do you think of thenormal recruitment process
within hospitality?
It's quite lengthy and formy.
right?
Sophia Ballone (14:27):
Um, yeah.
Saraya (14:28):
How many forms did you fill out the other day?
Sophia Ballone (14:31):
Um, that well, that's just the beginning.
But, um, yeah, no, I definitelythink it's, it needs, it's very
outdated.
Yeah.
Um, I also think there needs tobe a way to reintroduce trials.
Um, I understand that there is Alot of legal payroll.
(14:51):
Yeah.
there's a very, a lot of legalreasons why we can't do trials
anymore.
But, um, realistically, you lookat some of their, like some of
our guys' resumes and theyhaven't had any experience out
of, outside of etico.
Um, so
Saraya (15:06):
it doesn't show who they are.
doesn't show what they can doand it doesn't show them
Andrea (15:10):
And they don't have the skills and the confidence to
articulate it in an interview.
Sophia Ballone (15:16):
Like I I definitely feel like, um, what
we do, how we support, how Isupport them through their
interviews, it helps a lot.
But even then, sometimes I'mlike, I'm sitting back and I'm
watching them and I'm like, Oh,I know that you can do better
than that Like I know that it'sjust they're nervous and while
they might not necessarily admitit to to me they they're always
(15:39):
excited and i'm like, I knowit's exciting, but it's also
nerve wracking and i always tellthem like It's okay to be
nervous
Andrea (15:46):
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (15:46):
as well as a little bit scared maybe and even
excited but Like at the end ofthe day a job interview isn't a
job interview and Unfortunatelywith people with disabilities,
it doesn't necessarily give themthe opportunity.
to shine.
Andrea (15:59):
And let's not forget that the majority of our
graduates have an intellectualdisability rather than a
physical disability.
So that, that group we heardfrom Tracy Lee the other day is
even more disadvantaged when itcomes to employment.
So that's another layer ofcomplication.
But it makes me think, I wasthinking, because that's what I
do, I just think, That maybeanother way of, sort of part of
(16:28):
the recruitment of the leadingup to the recruitment through
before graduation is to actuallyhave almost like famil type of
incursions here by the HR, therecruitment people from hotels
that come and see almost like asmystery shoppers our trainees in
action at work.
(16:48):
And so they see them here atwork, which sort of makes up a
little bit for that trial thatthey can't afford the risk of
doing.
They see them here in action.
So I think there's, there'ssomething in there that we could
sort of think of.
You don't look very enthusiasticI think there's an opportunity
there.
Saraya (17:06):
It's easier said than done because there's time
restraints on HR.
I think it's a hundred percent.
Like we've got, um, industrypartners that come and, that
come and stay, come and visit,and we really encourage it, but
for those that can't, I think,you know, like, uh, the videos
that we do, the skills videos,and I think that that's
something that, and it shouldn'tjust be for people with a
(17:30):
disability.
There are so many, like, therecruitment processes, like
cover letters, are so outdated,Oh yeah.
you know, like, it's just, it'sIt shouldn't just be for people
with a disability.
Yes, there should be someexceptions, but there are so
many more people would, um,really value from that.
Like, there are so many things.
Like, it's so nerve wrackinggoing for a job interview.
(17:52):
And, and I think people need to,you know, it's, it's a great
skill to, to be able tointerview and, and, and things
like that.
But there's just, there's somuch that can be done.
Like, what about a walkinginterview?
It puts people at ease.
Like, there's simple things thatthat can be done.
to make things just that littlebit more relaxed.
Like I know when I interview,it's about a conversation.
(18:15):
It's not an interrogation.
And I feel like there's just,and I don't think people mean to
interrogate people, but you'retrained in a certain way in HR,
right?
No offense, though.
Sophia Ballone (18:26):
No, I, I think that was something that I always
made a point of when I used to,hold interviews.
it's a conversation.
It's to get to know each other.
it's to see.
if, You like what we're sellingand if, what, and whether we
like what you're selling.
it's not necessarily just a,interrogation like you said.
Saraya (18:47):
another way that we, we as a business, like we, to
transition our graduates is whatwe've been working on and what
Soph works on in the, transitionprogram is the work experience.
So actually having workexperience where you know that
they want to work or wherethey've got interest to hire,
that, that's another way.
But we pay for that as abusiness, but for other people
(19:08):
with a disability that aren't inHotel Etico, it's really
difficult.
Sophia Ballone (19:12):
And that's part of the reason why, I've
increased the work experience.
Saraya (19:17):
Yeah.
,Absolutely.
It's it's essential.
Um, because Continuousimprovement on the program.
Absolutely.
Sophia Ballone (19:22):
Yeah, no, I've increased it through an extra
week, um, for this new groupbecause I think giving them a
little bit of exposure a littlebit earlier, but also giving
them employer the opportunity
Andrea (19:33):
Yeah, of course.
Sophia Ballone (19:33):
to experience them, um, and so it gives us a
bit of a a chance for them tohave.
That exposure to something, uh,potentially a hotel that's
bigger.
Um, because I can think of acouple of guys that would would
be exceptional for, um,reception or concierge.
(19:55):
Unfortunately, we're a boutiquehotel.
We can't get that exposure.
give them the true experience ofthat.
Um, So, yeah, I, it's, andthat's something that I'm very,
very upfront with, um, thepartners that I do place them
with in their work experience.
I let them know, I'm like, okay,we're, we just need work
experience at this point intime, but we would really like
(20:17):
you to consider off the back ofwork experience employment.
Um, and it's kind of, kind ofcovers that trial without
necessarily, um, having to addanother layer to it.
Andrea (20:29):
Yeah.
Saraya (20:29):
Another thing that I think, employers could really
use some help with is the, theforms and the process behind
hiring somebody.
it, it becomes reallyoverwhelming for somebody with a
disability.
All of the forms, you know, thetechnology behind it, constant
emails and so on.
(20:50):
How do you support the graduatesto, to do that?
Sophia Ballone (20:55):
How I do it?
How I do it?
I do it for them.
so I'll sit down and have aconversation with them and fill
it out with them.
I, yeah, if they, the employerneeds a point of contact, I'm
their point of contact.
because like you said, they doget overwhelmed with emails.
They do get over, Some of themwon't answer phone calls.
and it's, it's hard.
(21:18):
It's, it's, there's a lot, likeby all means even even for me,
when I was looking for a job andtrying to apply and, going
through the process, I, like,you're always on edge and you're
always
Saraya (21:30):
What?
are you laughing at?
Andrea (21:31):
Cover letter?
Saraya (21:32):
Yeah.
Didn't you hear my, dig beforeabout how outdated the
recruitment process is, such ascover letters?
Andrea (21:39):
Yeah, but, you know, there's jobs and there's jobs.
So, yeah, I, I agree.
Like, intuitively, one wouldthink out there, Oh, you know,
why are you doing it for them?
You're sort of, they're notlearning.
Let's be honest, like what, whatpart of filling in a form is
such an essential skill?
I hate forms.
they might never be able tolearn to do that.
(22:02):
We need to accept that.
Yeah, well the other thing is, alot of these forms are, Are very
HR e they're very legallanguage, so, um, even to a lay,
like, any lay person, they, youread that and you're like, what
am I reading,
Saraya (22:17):
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (22:18):
I don't understand it and so, I think
part of the reason why I like todo it with them is because I can
explain it to them and some
Saraya (22:25):
Easy read.
Yeah.
And put it into language thatpeople understand.
Sophia Ballone (22:28):
Exactly.
Saraya (22:29):
We have, like for example here, we have all of our
policies in EasyRoute, and Ithink that that
Andrea (22:35):
So you're saying in addition to, sort of, helping
the graduate sort of completingthe form, Helping the employer.
Employers, what we do, what wecan do and what we do is help
them transform their practicesso that they're more inclusive.
Saraya (22:52):
Yes.
Right.
A hundred percent.
again, and I say this it's notjust to help people with a
disability, but if you makethese slight changes, it
actually helps every singleperson in that workplace.
Andrea (23:04):
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Saraya (23:06):
It gets huge.
There's so many different, um,things that you can do.
Um, and we go in and we helpemployers do this.
I'm like, if you don't know, youdon't know.
But there's no silly questions,there's no dumb questions.
like, it can be the stupidestquestion and we'll take that
call.
Andrea (23:20):
What are some of the common misconceptions that
businesses have about hiringpeople with disabilities?
Sophia Ballone (23:26):
They're not going to be as efficient.
Saraya (23:28):
And productive.
Sophia Ballone (23:29):
Yeah.
by all means, the trainingperiod is, it will take them a
little longer.
but that's why we're here.
We provide the support.
for their employer, for thegraduates, so that they can take
that extra time and learn itproperly.
Once they learn it properly,they'll be the first one to tell
you you're doing it wrong.
Andrea (23:48):
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (23:49):
So.
Andrea (23:50):
There's a great chart that I think you guys used in in
your tour around the state withDestination New South Wales that
shows like the gap of skills andthe fact that we fill in that
gap.
And that gap could reduce overtime or could be always there to
some extent or become bigger orsmaller depending on the time
because Lots of stuff happens inlife, you know, like life events
(24:12):
that create sort of a traumaticexperience for a person that
sort of puts a challenge.
Saraya (24:18):
There's two different gaps.
There's a skills gap that youcan train, or there is a gap
Andrea (24:25):
capacity,
Saraya (24:26):
like adjustments, like, soph super short.
Can't reach the top shelf.
That's an adjustment that weneed to make for her.
Andrea (24:36):
Yeah.
Saraya (24:39):
It's, the adjustments that you make for people with a
disability is the same as makingadjustments for anybody else.
the work from home.
A lot of people work from homenow.
Andrea (24:48):
So actually that's, that's a good, example.
Like, could could you give usum, two or three practical
examples of things that we'vedone, equipment that we bought,
adjustments that we've made hereat Autoletico that may have been
even taken to the employers, um,that try and sort of bridge that
gap for some of our graduates.
(25:10):
What have we done?
What can be done?
Saraya (25:11):
Only two or three?
Cause we could, yeah, only acouple.
We could name a couple.
Sophia Ballone (25:16):
My favorite one that we have implemented here is
the, um, Queen and King Sheets.
Saraya (25:22):
It's So my favorite.
Andrea (25:24):
explain that?
Saraya (25:25):
Um, so in our housekeeping area where we have
our, um, Queen and King sheets,we have a picture of a Queen and
King rather than words Queen andKing.
Andrea (25:36):
Simple.
Sophia Ballone (25:37):
simple, easy, It's literally cost you nothing.
Queen and King.
And it's so much more efficientand,
Saraya (25:43):
especially because all the sheets are white.
Andrea (25:44):
So do you have like what, King Charles and Queen
Elizabeth?
No.
We should do that.
Sophia Ballone (25:49):
No, because not everyone recognises them.
Saraya (25:51):
Not everybody recognises them.
We've got the very visual, theeasy, Queen.
Andrea (25:57):
And the words as well.
So there's both, right?
Saraya (25:58):
Yeah, there is both.
And that, that is free.
And, um, again, it doesn't justIf I go in there, I'm like,
Andrea (26:06):
What else from an equipment point of view?
Sophia Ballone (26:10):
From an equipment point of view?
Saraya (26:11):
Well, there's Dom.
Dom at the Fairmont.
So, he has dexterity, you know,limitations.
just Strength limitations.
and he loves housekeeping.
He, he wanted to be inhousekeeping.
and his is a mop.
He couldn't do housekeeping'cause he couldn't use the mop
here.
So, it's about getting thatassessment in.
(26:32):
And that was all done throughJob Access.
Andrea (26:34):
It's an awesome mop.
Saraya (26:35):
It's an, oh, you can't,
Sophia Ballone (26:36):
everyone wants it.
Saraya (26:36):
Yeah, Everyone wants it.
It went with him.
Sophia Ballone (26:39):
Yeah, it did go with him.
Saraya (26:39):
It went with him.
Andrea (26:40):
Well I think we've got another one now,'cause I saw, I
saw someone yell someone elseusing it here, so I think we
bought another one.
Saraya (26:45):
We did, yeah, we did buy a new one.
But, um, you know, a mop thatyou push into drain instead of
the ones that you,
Andrea (26:51):
Without too much strength, and you just
Saraya (26:52):
Yeah, It's really old school ones that you see in the
hotels?
that have them.
Oh yeah.
Andrea (26:58):
And that's easy, that's an easy thing.
Saraya (27:00):
It's easy.
And and I think, um, a commonmisconception is that it's going
to cost the employer so muchmoney.
That didn't cost our, us, or thefamily where he is now, any
money.
Andrea (27:11):
Cause it's government funded.
Saraya (27:12):
It's government funded.
He has, the funding for it.
which is really good.
Andrea (27:16):
So that's great.
Saraya (27:17):
In the bar, for example, like we have, you know, wine
jiggers.
Andrea (27:21):
And the tampers for coffee.
Sophia Ballone (27:24):
I was going to say the tampers
Saraya (27:26):
Everyone loves the tampers.
Great it's like it puts less,
Andrea (27:30):
There's a spring loaded one, There's an automatic one.
Saraya (27:32):
We were talking to um, Ashoria, yesterday, what was the
one that she was telling youabout?
Andrea (27:37):
Yeah, like the, to pour glasses of wine, Like I haven't
seen it yet, I haven't quitepictured what it looks like.
Saraya (27:42):
Yeah, so what I picture it, and I'm sure it'll come in
the next few weeks, is becausewe have a trainee that shakes a
lot, he can't pour the bottle ofwine with that, but it actually
pours it from the bottlestanding up, so it like, it
automatically pours
Andrea (27:57):
the right amount,
Saraya (27:58):
the right amount from the bottle standing up.
It's Brilliant, that's cool, sosmart.
Andrea (28:02):
Can we talk a little bit about the difference that
employing someone with makeswithin the culture of an
organization, and I can thinkof, You know some of the
anecdotes that uh, have beenoffered to us by our employment
partners to say that thedifference that this has made.
(28:23):
What does it change?
What does it do?
Sophia Ballone (28:26):
what doesn't it do?
It's actually incredible how tohave just one person.
how it changes the wholeatmosphere and environment of a
hotel.
Particularly Back of House,like,
Saraya (28:39):
You've experienced it firsthand too, before you came
here, so you're probably one ofthe.
the people that can reallyexplain it to employers.
because
Andrea (28:48):
It lifts the happiness rate?
Saraya (28:49):
Yeah, it's,
Sophia Ballone (28:52):
the fact that you have someone so excited, so
enthusiastic, so happy to be atwork and to be there, and just
constantly greeting everyone.
And, I remember I, I, thisparticular graduate, I had to
have a conversation with himbecause he was going through the
whole hotel at one stage sayinggood morning to everyone.
(29:15):
Which was making him late forhis shift.
Saraya (29:17):
So he just needed to get there way, way, way early.
Sophia Ballone (29:20):
Yeah, exactly.
So, um, yeah.
But it was, it was wonderfuljust seeing how happy everyone
was to see him.
How happy he was there.
And that just changedeverything.
Back of house, the, yeah, themood just was constantly a lot
better.
Saraya (29:39):
I get really, um, homesick from Etiko if I've been
away for too long.
Like if we're in the city withmeetings and stuff like that, I
get really, really homesickbecause you walk in and it's
just like, Like, and it's justlike, it just lifts you.
Andrea (29:56):
It's an injection of happiness.
and yeah, authenticity.
There's a certain level ofauthenticity, especially with
people with intellectualdisability, autism, Down
syndrome.
That's just, open book.
Sophia Ballone (30:13):
Yeah,
Saraya (30:13):
I think people are pleasantly surprised when they
work with somebody that has adisability that can actually
work, and that can, you know,has the skills to be able to
work.
They have this, their perceptionof that person changes, their
perception of disabilitychanges.
and I think, you know, well, Imean, us three in the room,
absolutely, but I think mostpeople go to work because they,
(30:39):
they, don't just go to workbecause it's a job, right?
They go, yes, money is needed,makes the world go round, live
but I think most people want toknow that they're doing good,
and especially at work.
I think a lot of people wantthat, and I think that they get
that when it's within theirculture.
Andrea (30:58):
And, that's all we want to do in terms of changing the
culture of an organization.
if there are pockets of peoplethat, haven't thought about
that.
They just do it because theyneed to do it by working with
someone with a disability orworking with an organization
that has an inclusive approachto their hiring practices.
(31:19):
It just changes completely theperspective and the perception
of your employer.
You want to work there.
Saraya (31:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrea (31:28):
so isn't, isn't there an anecdote of, um, uh, the
Fairmont Resorts that hasreported to us that whenever we
do training Um, arounddisability, That's the most
attended.
the best attended.
Sophia Ballone (31:42):
Yeah, the highest attendee, um, or
attendance for training, isactually the training that we
provide.
Saraya (31:50):
Actually, that's a great segue into, what does Hotel
Etiquette do for employers?
Yes, we help them with therecruitment process and
everything, um, but we are much,much more.
So we support them you know,throughout the entire journey,
one of our graduates.
But there are also employersthat don't have our graduates
that we support, that we train.
Um, so I think it's reallyimportant to to cover that.
(32:12):
Like, what do we do?
Andrea (32:14):
At industry level.
Saraya (32:15):
At industry level.
What do we do?
In a nutshell, Cause we do alot.
Sophia Ballone (32:19):
Yeah, we do do a lot.
definitely training, um, and Ithink that's crucial and I'd
like to also take thisopportunity to Pretty much ask
our partners as well to not beafraid to take us on for
training because I noticed evenwhen even though they might be
open and they might already havesome graduates with with them
(32:41):
There's never like not enoughtraining you can have and with
this in hospitality, it's so newthat by all means, just take
advantage of what we canactually do.
Andrea (32:54):
What is some of the training that we do?
What topics?
What do we cover?
Saraya (32:58):
Um, what do we?
you name it.
You've got disability etiquette,you've got autism, Down
syndrome, we've got onlinemodules.
we also do one on one coaching.
Like, it's not,
Andrea (33:09):
um, With HR, with supervisors.
Saraya (33:12):
And if we don't have the training, we'll find the
training.
we're not
Andrea (33:16):
Partnering with others.
Saraya (33:16):
Yeah, we're not exclusive.
Like, if, If we need to, if wedon't have the training that
they want, say, um, mentalhealth, or um, I'm trying to
think of something we don'thave, but if we don't have it.
Andrea (33:29):
So, for example, the training we did, uh, for autism,
we did it in partnership withAspect, right?
Saraya (33:34):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that there's such a good,
movement at the moment withinthe disability space that we are
all collaborative.
You know, we're not competitive.
Um, we want, everybody has thesame mission, and that is for,
people to be more included.
Andrea (33:51):
Because it's like rising the tide all the boats lift.
That's another metaphor.
Saraya (33:57):
Is it?
Sophia Ballone (33:58):
Yes, it is.
Saraya (33:59):
I've never heard that one.
Okay, what is it?
Andrea (34:01):
If you increase the level of the tide.
Saraya (34:03):
No, no, no, Say it from the beginning so I can
comprehend it.
What is it?
Andrea (34:07):
Well, It's rising the level of the tide so that all
the boats lift.
Saraya (34:10):
Never heard it.
Andrea (34:11):
So we're working on the tide, on the water, not on the
boats.
Yes.
Okay.
The boats are there, we'reworking on the water, filling
more water in there.
Saraya (34:19):
Nah, I really am not getting that metaphor.
Got a better one?
Sophia Ballone (34:23):
give him some time.
Saraya (34:26):
I think another, another thing with employers is that
Well, not the ones we currentlywork with, they're pretty good,
but, like people are scared toask questions.
Sophia Ballone (34:34):
Oh yeah, that's it, and it's really funny
because, I'll be the first oneto call it out.
when I speak to employers, I'mlike, I get it, you're scared.
Like, it's, fear is normal, andit's fine because it's something
that's new.
Andrea (34:47):
Of the unknown,
Sophia Ballone (34:48):
Yeah, it's, it's being scared of the unknown, and
that's why I keep saying I'mlike, That's why we're here.
We, we are like your littlesource of information.
Saraya (34:57):
That should definitely be one of our mottos.
Andrea (35:00):
That's why we're here?
Saraya (35:01):
No, the other one?
Andrea (35:03):
Which one?
Saraya (35:04):
You guys didn't pick up on it.
Oh.
Don't be afraid to ask questionslike No, no.
One of our mottoes should be,it's normal It's normal to have
fear.
is normal.
Andrea (35:15):
Yeah.
Saraya (35:16):
Like it's a human nature to have fear.
Sophia Ballone (35:18):
And Especially when you're talking about big
businesses, because at the endof the day, you're, you're
running an empire.
You're running something that's,um, you're scared to bring
something new in because youdon't know what the impact is
going to be.
Andrea (35:31):
But again, as I said to an audience of hoteliers a few
months ago, like, No one's goingto sue you.
You're actually offering a jobto someone.
You're giving an opportunity ofa lifetime to someone.
They're not going to take you onfor doing, for saying the wrong
word or, you know, like,approaching things in the wrong
way, you're there to help themand you open up a completely
(35:53):
different world.
Saraya (35:55):
Everybody has the right to sue, not just somebody with a
disability.
You probably have morelikelihood of being sued by
somebody that doesn't have adisability.
Sophia Ballone (36:01):
yes, it would be actually really.
really good idea if we could,when we actually tell them that
they've been recruited, to getthe reaction that like a video
reaction of the graduate andalso the family.
I think that's, what, in ourprocess the employers miss.
(36:24):
they'll see them enthusiasticand everything when they start.
and I'll see them all nervous intheir interviews, but that By
all means, don't take it awayfrom me.
I that's my favorite part of thejob.
But, yeah, I think it's, it'ssomething that would be really
cool.
Saraya (36:39):
I love it.
I also, I think I love, I loveit when the employers call me
and just to say, hey, like, thisperson's a bit of a, they're
amazing.
Or, hey, come and visit,surprise them, come and see
them.
I think that's one of myfavourite parts of my job.
Definitely fills my cup.
Andrea (36:58):
So you must be always on the road.
Sophia Ballone (37:04):
I've gotten used to driving, that's for sure.
Andrea (37:06):
Lots of, uh, podcasts listening.
Saraya (37:08):
Yeah,
Sophia Ballone (37:10):
actually, no,
Andrea (37:11):
This will give you content.
Saraya (37:13):
She won't she won't, listen to this one.
Sophia Ballone (37:15):
Oh, no, I can't listen to my own voice.
Yeah, definitely, The otherepisodes.
no, I actually love I'm a verybig Car karaoke girl.
So I'm literally like, when I'mdriving up here, I'm like,
Saraya (37:26):
Oh my God, yes, let's do it.
I, I'm the same.
I'm like, I need the bangers.
I had some great bangers onthere, but sometimes like the
morning, sometimes I prefer apodcast because I can just,
definitely on the way home.
I'm a podcast person, butsometimes you just need some pep
music.
Andrea (37:47):
All right.
Let's get back to serious stuff.
Saraya (37:49):
What's not serious
Andrea (37:51):
What are the biggest challenges in moving from
providing jobs to creatingcareers, lasting careers for
people with disabilities?
What's the difference?
What, is there a difference?
Sophia Ballone (38:04):
I think it's actually the graduates that's
probably the biggest challengebecause they are so happy with
whatever they get that theywon't be picky.
They won't be aspirational and Iconstantly have to be
encouraging them.
I'm like, guys, you need to beable to communicate what you
want.
You need to communicate.
If you're interested in adifferent department, Like, let
(38:27):
us know, talk about it, um,because, you
Andrea (38:31):
And we've we've had people moving around.
Within the same hotels ordifferent hotels.
Sophia Ballone (38:36):
Yeah.
Saraya (38:36):
You're right, actually.
I never really thought aboutthat because, you know, it's not
necessarily the employers thatdon't want to build a career
pathway.
Andrea (38:43):
Because they don't know what they don't know.
Basically.
Saraya (38:46):
that's a big hurdle.
I've, I've, I, know it.
I've never said it out loud.
That's I love this podcast.
Sophia Ballone (38:54):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
like that's
Andrea (38:57):
And so how do we support them to think of a career rather
than a job?
Sophia Ballone (39:01):
Surely building confidence.
Yeah, it's building confidence.
Andrea (39:04):
How do you do that?
Sophia Ballone (39:06):
having honest chats with them about things,
about the options that theyhave.
making sure that, you know,they're actually comfortable and
confident within the rolethey're currently doing.
Yeah, I I definitely think, andhaving, and being able to also,
help them get the confidence tospeak to their employers about
(39:27):
it as well.
I think that's anotherchallenge.
Saraya (39:29):
I think the one year here really does help, though,
Oh yeah.
to build that confidence.
So, like, the confidence thatthey have from the start.
Andrea (39:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Saraya (39:36):
To When they graduate, like, that's already
Andrea (39:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so in terms of, in terms ofhow you provide the support,
obviously we said you're on theroad a lot, you see them, you
talk to them, you call them, youemail them, You got lots of
touch points.
But you also have a bit of ateam of people, I suppose, that
go around and work with them,right?
Support workers.
Sophia Ballone (39:58):
Yeah.
Andrea (39:58):
Yeah.
Um, like how does that work?
What do they do?
Are they always with them?
Are they always with thegraduates?
Sophia Ballone (40:06):
so when they first commence a role, um, I've
made sure that they have asupport worker with them for the
first month, um, so that theyyou know, get used to the
routine, the team from theemployer's side have someone
that they can actually give whatneeds to be done so that they
can get, they can work ongetting them on the routine
(40:28):
rather than the employer havingto get them into it.
and.
After that, it's really justchecking to see what the
individual needs.
Andrea (40:36):
And then you slowly pull away?
Sophia Ballone (40:38):
Yeah, and slowly start pulling away.
Some of them will turn aroundand tell us that, they don't
need them from one week to thenext.
I can think of a couple thathave done that to me.
Andrea (40:46):
That's great.
Sophia Ballone (40:47):
Yeah, it's, it's the best feeling.
Andrea (40:48):
is it the employer tells you that or the graduate?
Sophia Ballone (40:51):
No, the graduate.
Saraya (40:53):
But there's also, um, I think there's a level of trust
with the employer to reach outif they need help.
Like, we, we also, like, we've,we've, we've backed away support
once completely for a yearbecause they were completely
fine in their job, they didn't,like, I mean, not the touch
points and stuff, but I meantthe one on one on the job
support.
Um, and then a year later, he'slike, yeah, so, I want to move
(41:14):
into another job.
So let's, and then the supportwas back, you know, to get into
a new routine and stuff.
So.
I think Etico, you always, it'slike the hotel, you always, you
never leave, right?
Andrea (41:28):
Yes, we talked about the Hotel California.
and who, this is like foremployers, like who actually
covers the cost of that supportworker?
Who pays for it?
Sophia Ballone (41:39):
NDIS.
Saraya (41:41):
Yeah.
Andrea (41:41):
So we cover that cost through, through the NDIS.
effectively.
Saraya (41:45):
So our participants um, have, have the funding for that
ongoing support.
Andrea (41:49):
Yeah.
So the employer actually doesn'thave to do anything.
Sophia Ballone (41:52):
No.
Just let us know.
Saraya (41:53):
And also, and also the disability services that we work
with, the disability providersthat we work with also have that
type of support.
Andrea (41:58):
Those job subsidies as well.
Saraya (41:59):
job services, but they do on the job support.
They're a third party for us.
Like We aren't we aren't asprovider.
So they're a third party, theykeep us pretty honest.
Um, and they, they basicallyhelp, um, our graduates as well.
So they have two, which isreally great.
It's all about wraparoundsupport.
Sophia Ballone (42:15):
Yeah.
Andrea (42:17):
any advice for, cause we need to probably start wrapping
it up.
what any advice that you wouldgive to businesses that might be
listening to us, that if theywere interested in becoming more
inclusive in their hiringpractices or interested in,
Yeah, Employing someone withdisability or working with us.
Sophia Ballone (42:33):
Call us.
Saraya (42:34):
We don't have a 1 800 number.
Just putting it out there.
Um, but also, I think thebiggest one is just don't be
scared.
Yeah.
There's no stupid questioneither.
Sophia Ballone (42:45):
It's normal to be scared to introduce something
new.
Um, and yeah, it's, it's justthat little leap, making that
little leap.
And just
Saraya (42:58):
even if we don't have a graduate necessarily, we can
still help them employ otherpeople.
Sophia Ballone (43:02):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We can, We can help them yeah,with training, or we can help
them finding an avenue wherethey can start developing what
they need to be able to actuallyemploy someone with a
disability.
Andrea (43:14):
And we are starting to build up the numbers quite a
bit.
So we can now sort of I'vecovered quite a few different
regions in terms of where theemployees can come from.
Because we were saying inprevious episodes that, you
know, our trainees come from twoor three hours away from
Victoria, which means, you know,like all the way from Canberra
(43:36):
to Bathurst to to the BlueMountains, Sutherland Shire,
Northern Beaches, Newcastle, Andso then.
If I'm from Newcastle, well, andI'm a graduate, I can probably
look for a job even north ofNewcastle or West of Newcastle.
You know, like there's, there'sthe radius keeps increasing.
So we've recently set up this,neat little thing on our
(44:00):
dashboard, on our system, right.
You and I.
That shows us the map coverage.
Sophia Ballone (44:05):
Yeah.
It's so good.
Andrea (44:06):
It's so good Cause it shows us the map coverage of
where our trainees are comingfrom and where the employees
are.
And so you can do it.
It's fantastic.
Saraya (44:14):
I know, I know.
I've been, I work in the sameoffice as you two.
but You two just get all excitedabout it and stuff.
And I'm like, geeks be geekingout.
I've got one last question foryou.
Are you finished?
Yes.
Yes.
Um, and this is going to be areally tough one.
Um, and I think I'm going to doit to all of our staff when we
interview them.
What is your favorite part oraspect of your job, what Gets
(44:40):
you out of bed to come to workevery day.
What's your favorite?
Andrea (44:44):
The alarm.
Sophia Ballone (44:44):
I can't say you too.
You can say us too.
That's a compliment.
Andrea (44:49):
You're not allowed to suck up to us.
Sophia Ballone (44:51):
damn it, okay.
Saraya (44:52):
I'll take it on board.
Suck up all you like.
Sophia Ballone (44:55):
oh that one's a hard one.
Saraya (44:58):
So obviously it's us, Andrea.
Sophia Ballone (45:02):
That's really, really hard.
I I really enjoy just therelationships that I create with
the, trainees and with thegraduates.
it's like someone else that'ssuper excited to see you.
honestly, I absolutely love thatfeeling and I get so excited to
come up here.
Especially since, you know, Ihave a two hour drive to get
(45:24):
here.
Saraya (45:25):
It's yeah, It's not an easy hike.
Andrea (45:27):
Big commitment.
Sophia Ballone (45:28):
but yeah, no, and it's really funny.
cause Sometimes I'm like, okay,I've got this, I've got this, I
can do this.
and Waking up at 5am or 5 30,and I'm just like, I can do
this.
And then I walk through thesedoors and I'm just like, yeah,
Andrea (45:43):
I mean, your job is one of the hardest one.
I'm not just saying becauseyou're here, like you, the, the
rate of success, is, is, iscritical and like for any one of
us.
To get one job, you probablyneed to do 10 interviews.
or, you know, and, and, and soit takes a long time.
(46:07):
And so once you lock that personin, it's like, yes.
It's like you, you're too youngto remember the ad from h r
Block, which is a tax agent.
There was, there was, a ladythat was doing the accounts and
finding, a saving for, for uh,for a customer, for a client.
And she goes like, she looksaround, and she goes.
(46:28):
Yes,
Saraya (46:29):
I think I've seen it.
Sophia Ballone (46:30):
I think I have seen it too.
Saraya (46:32):
In Queensland we used to have very different ads.
Like we, like you know how it'sNRMA down here?
it's RACQ up there.
If you're ever bored, YouTube,RACQ ads.
They are the greatest thingyou'll ever see.
It's way better than yes.
Andrea (46:47):
Yeah, well, but you know the satisfaction, the level of
that sense of satisfaction anduh, which,
Sophia Ballone (46:53):
Yeah, the, definitely the level of
satisfaction once they get um, arole is incredible.
Saraya (47:00):
But, it can,
Andrea (47:01):
but you're saying also the smile in their face when
they see you.
Saraya (47:03):
it can be deflating though.
Sophia Ballone (47:04):
But it, it like, exhausting.
I, I remember my first weekwhere I got multiple rejections
for them and I was pretty muchin a ball.
on the, I was just right therewith you with chocolates.
Yeah, it's really hard.
Saraya (47:16):
We have lots of chocolate, that's fine.
We, We have a stash ofchocolates for those things.
Yeah.
There's really tough weeks.
The rejection
Sophia Ballone (47:23):
That's why we do what we do.
Because it's hard.
I know.
We don't do it because it'seasy.
Yeah.
Everyone would do it.
Everybody would do it.
Andrea (47:30):
You know who's quote that is, right?
Saraya (47:31):
Yours?
Andrea (47:32):
JFK.
Saraya (47:33):
JFK, no.
I'm not great.
Andrea (47:34):
We choose to go to the moon, not because it's easy.
We choose to go into the moonbecause it's hard.
Saraya (47:41):
Okay, if I can't get metaphors right, what makes you
think I'm going to get quotesright?
Andrea (47:46):
Listen to me.
Saraya (47:47):
There are there are many things that are great about me,
but there are many things thataren't.
That is one.
Andrea (47:52):
Okay.
Sophia Ballone (47:52):
I think there are more great things than
Saraya (47:53):
Oh, thank you, Sophie, you really are a suck up today.
Sophia Ballone (47:56):
Thank you.
Andrea (47:57):
Anything else to close this off?
Saraya (47:59):
No, I think that's a wrap.
Andrea (48:01):
Yeah, that's a wrap.
Well, Sophia, it's been a greatpleasure to have you.
Saraya (48:06):
You'll be on again, because we barely barely
scratched the surface of how wecan help people.
Andrea (48:11):
absolutely.
You'll be a regular.
Sophia Ballone (48:13):
Thanks.
Saraya (48:15):
She's like, uh oh.
Andrea (48:15):
You sound so excited.
Sophia Ballone (48:17):
Well, The first one is done and dusted and, and,
you know.
Saraya (48:20):
It's fun.
Andrea (48:20):
And I have to say, you've got a great voice.
Saraya (48:22):
Yeah, you do.
For somebody that doesn't like.
Andrea (48:24):
I don't know if it's the mic or something, but you've got
a great, warm voice for, um,for, for radio.
Sophia Ballone (48:28):
Makes me feel a little bit better about my
voice.
Saraya (48:32):
I like it.
Andrea (48:33):
okay.
Well, thank you very much,Sophia.
Thanks to our listeners.
And don't forget to subscribe,like, follow,
Saraya (48:40):
I don't think we've ever said that before.
Do people still subscribe andlike?
Andrea (48:44):
Yeah, it's very, very important.
So send suggestions.
Saraya (48:48):
Oh yeah, actually you're right, Lylah.
I need to subscribe.
Andrea (48:51):
We need a few influencers out there That's
sort of like.
Sophia Ballone (48:53):
Okay, Lylah and William.
Saraya (48:55):
Okay, Lylah is my daughter and William is.
Andrea (48:58):
but yes, uh, we'll close it here.
We thank everyone for listeningand, uh, uh, until next time
from Andrea Comastri.
And Saraya O'Connell.
let's make room for all and keepfighting for inclusion.
Hello, everyone.
We are back in Room for All.
Welcome to Episode two of Seasonone for Room for All.
We're here at Hotel Etico andI'm here with my co host, Saraya
O'Connell.
Saraya (01:42):
Hi, everyone.
Andrea (01:43):
Hi, Saraya.
And today, first in the studio,in person, is our special guest,
our, Great colleague, SophiaBallone.
Hi, Sophia.
How are you?
Sophia Ballone (01:55):
Good, thanks.
Hi, everyone.
Andrea (01:57):
Welcome.
Welcome to Room for All, theinclusion in hospitality
podcast.
Saraya (02:02):
How does it feel to be our first in person guest?
Sophia Ballone (02:07):
Yeah, I wish I wish you had picked someone
else.
Saraya (02:12):
Yeah.
Andrea (02:12):
That's how we roll, Sophia.
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (02:14):
I know I've learnt that already.
Saraya (02:15):
It has to be comfortable and the discomfort.
Andrea (02:18):
That's right.
So why don't you get us started,Saraya?
Saraya (02:22):
So, Sophia, um, first question is I want you to
introduce yourself and what youdo with Hotel Etico, Okay, um,
and just tell us a little bitabout you.
Andrea (02:32):
who
Saraya (02:33):
is Sofia Ballone?
Yeah, who is she?
What does she do besides lookingfabulous in pink?
Sophia Ballone (02:37):
Oh, thank you.
who am I?
I guess first and foremost myrole here is Employment Manager.
I, feel like I am the tiebetween the training and the
work.
The industry.
I help the guys find employmentonce they finish up here, with
their 52 weeks of training and,yeah, help them prepare for that
(02:58):
transition as well, and duringthat transition, and then just
keep tabs on them once they, areactually settled in, so.
that's,
Saraya (03:07):
Yeah, it is a big job and it is probably one of our
most, needed jobs.
Cause if that, if your roledidn't exist, then we wouldn't
be
Andrea (03:17):
That's right.
That's The, uh, the proof ofsuccess for the model is, uh,
that uh, graduates secureemployment and, um, and hold
employment.
Sophia Ballone (03:26):
Yeah.
No pressure guys.
Saraya (03:28):
Yeah, no pressure.
Andrea (03:30):
So far, The results are fantastic.
So, but Sophia, tell us a littlebit about more about yourself.
First of all.
Can you put to rest once and forall how you pronounce your name?
For the general public.
Sophia Ballone (03:43):
Ballone.
Sofia Ballone.
Andrea (03:45):
Ballone.
Okay.
And where does the name comefrom?
Sophia Ballone (03:48):
it's Italian.
but my parents are fromArgentina.
So my dad's side was, I believe,third generation Argentinian.
So, that's where the surnamecomes from.
But
Andrea (03:59):
So tú hablas español.
Sophia Ballone (04:00):
Sí.
Andrea (04:01):
Muy bien.
Saraya (04:02):
Keep going.
We could just do this wholepodcast in Spanish.
Sophia Ballone (04:05):
Yeah, but You wouldn't you wouldn't be
included.
Saraya (04:07):
That's fine.
That's cool.
Andrea (04:09):
I actually, yesterday talking about it, I was saying
I'm going to introduce Sophia inSpanish.
And then I forgot about it,Okay.
Saraya (04:18):
We always say a lot of things.
Oh yeah, we should do this, weshould do that.
Andrea (04:20):
So who's Sophia the person?
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself personally.
Saraya (04:25):
what inspired you to work for Hotel Etico?
Sophia Ballone (04:28):
Well, um, as a person, I guess I am most
importantly a mum to my littleman, william, um, who keeps me
on my toes constantly.
Um, and outside of that, I am avery creative person.
Andrea (04:46):
Very colourful,
Sophia Ballone (04:47):
Yes, yes, I I, I am quite well known for my
colorful hair, although it's,it's due for an update and yes,
and clothes.
I like to be as authentic aspossible for who I am in
expressing myself, in my beliefsand I guess that also speaks to
(05:08):
why I was inspired to join, um,Hotel Etico family.
We, yeah, I, from a young age Iknew that I wanted to do
something that was meaningful,something that, worked with
human rights in some capacity.
originally, when I first lefthigh school, I wanted to go
into, law and actually studyhuman rights and become a human
(05:30):
rights lawyer.
but my, I guess my journey tookme a different way and I fell in
love with, you know, Manage,management, well, managing and
management.
so that's how I kind of landedin HR.
and I like the human aspect ofit, I'm, One of my, I guess,
interests outside of everythingis, psychology, so I majored
(05:51):
that in, my degrees.
And, yeah, I just somehow,through the waves of life, um,
found my way in HR, and then,was lucky enough to meet you
guys as, an employer.
Andrea (06:08):
Well, guess what, Sophia?
Your journey actually got youexactly in the heart of the
human rights.
Behind us, on that frame,there's a certificate of award
from the Human Rights Commissionbecause Hotel Etico in 2022 won
Human Rights Award.
So I think, it was, it was meantto be.
(06:31):
It was meant to be.
you're in the right place forsure.
Saraya (06:35):
I'm super grateful.
I knew from the first time I metyou that there was something and
I was like, Ooh, she needs to beat Hotel Etico.
so I'm super, super grateful tohave you.
I think you're amazing.
Andrea (06:48):
Before joining Hotel Etico, what were you doing?
Sophia Ballone (06:52):
Work wise?
I was in, I was a HR generalistat Fullerton Hotel Sydney.
Andrea (06:58):
The Fullerton, which is one of our partners, right?
So you knew our program, youknew our graduates, you knew us.
so it was a great segue in a wayinto, into the next step of your
career, I think.
Saraya (07:12):
Um, in today's podcast we've probably got so much to
cover when it comes to what youdo and how you do it and
employers and stuff.
So we will try to keep, probablyneed another.
45 minutes.
We'll do another episodeprobably.
but like, I think the biggestthings that we want to cover
today is the importance ofinclusive hiring.
(07:33):
We want to get some takeawaysfor our listeners for that.
creating pathways from jobs tocareers.
So, you know, we talk all thetime that we don't just, we
don't want our trainees to gointo jobs.
We want them to go into careers.
and then.
some takeaways for best practicefor businesses to be able to
actually implement and hiresomebody with a disability.
(07:53):
So, we're probably going to needa few episodes of this one, but
I think we'll, we'll try and atleast give, uh, quite a lot of
takeaways.
Andrea (08:03):
So, inclusive hiring.
Saraya (08:06):
Why?
I mean, we're, We're preachingto the choir here, us three.
cause the choir?
Isn't that
Andrea (08:13):
you're preaching to the converted.
Sophia Ballone (08:15):
No, no, no, it's choir.
Andrea (08:17):
I don't know.
Sophia Ballone (08:20):
Yeah, because if you preach to the choir, you're
preaching to people that alreadybelieve that are part of the
congregation that is there.
Saraya (08:27):
Soph, if I have never loved you more.
Because I get
Andrea (08:32):
Let's agree to disagree.
Yeah, we will have to.
I get all my metaphors
Saraya (08:36):
wrong.
Like, um, there was one and I,for a year, he's been teasing me
about it.
Something about salt.
Uh, I don't want to share it.
It was so dumb.
But like, it was dumb.
But for my entire life I wasdumb.
Andrea (08:47):
Now let's take this with a grand assault.
That was Saraya's line insteadof let's take this with a grain
of salt.
With a grand assault.
Which doesn't work either, itdoesn't make sense.
Saraya (09:06):
Keep in mind, right, I probably heard that metaphor and
I'm 40 percent deaf and I readlips so like I probably just
make up my own stuff all thetime but thank you for proving
that I just got a metaphor rightbecause that actually means the
world to me.
Andrea (09:21):
So why do you believe that inclusive hiring practices
are essential for thehospitality industry?
Sophia Ballone (09:27):
I think the most obvious one is how staff how
much we are lacking staff in thehospitality industry, the
necessity and requirement forhow, and just yesterday I was
looking at a video saying howmany more hotels we're going to
(09:47):
need within New South Wales.
Andrea (09:49):
40, 000 beds or something, right?
Sophia Ballone (09:51):
Yeah.
Like if we're struggling alreadynow to be filling our hotels
with the right amount of staff,then let's be honest, if we open
the doors.
that many more rooms.
It's going to be a necessity.
And, the, I guess the, the bestthing about opening that door
to, being a bit more inclusiveand getting people with
(10:14):
disability in is that it's awhole pool of people.
Andrea (10:18):
It opens up another pool.
Sophia Ballone (10:19):
Yeah.
Um, and it's not just a poolthat, is rotating, like say your
students that continuouslyrotate every, depends on what
kind of visa, what kind ofcourse they're doing, but it can
be between every six months orevery, three years.
And that longevity is not a goodsolid plan, but with, um, people
(10:44):
with disability, they're,they're keen, they're excited,
they're, interested in working,which is not the same
enthusiasm, at least I foundwhen I was in HR trying to
recruit.
their dedication, their loyaltyis next to none.
Andrea (10:59):
And if we combine that at government policy level with
immigration tightening, and sothere's yeah.
Uh, migrants coming.
and we student numbers arereducing as well, because the
government is reducing thatbecause of the housing housing
crisis.
There's a perfect storm in termsof having lack of staff.
Sophia Ballone (11:18):
Yeah.
Andrea (11:19):
And as you said, biggest pain point for the industry is
staff.
And so that's where I suppose wecome in and, inclusive practices
help address that businessproblem.
Saraya (11:32):
And I think the difference is, is that we are
training skilled staff.
So we're not asking people tohire our graduates just to tick
a box, we have skilled staff,like our, they've been with us
for a year, they're training, intheir elective, like, there's
(11:53):
such a shortage of staff.
skilled staff, within thehospitality space.
I mean, and you know, you canteach hospitality, don't get me
wrong, you can walk in entrylevel hospitality, but to
actually have staff that can Youknow, already know the
processes, already know theprocedures.
Andrea (12:10):
They've worked.
Saraya (12:11):
They've worked.
for a year in hospitality andthat's a long time sometimes the
people in hospitality.
I remember a turnover in one ofthe restaurants that I worked in
was like two weeks.
People were lasting two weeksbecause they just couldn't cut
it.
I mean, it was a hotheaded chef.
but they couldn't cut it.
They really couldn't, theycouldn't work.
that, you know, you're on yourfeet all day.
(12:31):
it's a hard job.
Hospitality is a hard business.
Sophia Ballone (12:34):
Yeah, and it's it's surprising how many people
go into it thinking that It's aneasy job that will get them cash
while they're studying or whilethey're in between something Um,
and I think that's also part ofthe problem that you don't have
people that are passionate asmuch as What it used to be
Andrea (12:53):
and the opportunities within the tourism and
hospitality industry are huge
Saraya (12:58):
to make a career as well.
Andrea (12:59):
You can come in and go from pouring a beer or cleaning
floor all the way up to ageneral manager or Managing
multiple hotels and anything inbetween
Saraya (13:10):
from accounting to anything.
Andrea (13:13):
Back of house, front of house.
Sophia Ballone (13:14):
Yes.
Yeah, there's it's um, it's aworld in itself.
Yeah.
I, that's probably one of myfavorite things about
hospitality.
Um, and, um, when I was workingin bigger hotels is that the
reality is you know, in that onelittle space, you have
everything.
You have business, you have, um,You have tradies, your chefs,
(13:38):
and your, um, team from theengineering teams.
You have your front liners, youlike, you have your middle
management, your uppermanagement.
You deal with absolutely everysingle kind of person that you
can.
potentially would be in theexternal world, but within that
one space.
Andrea (13:55):
A hundred percent.
Saraya (13:56):
So when I was, um, traveling with Destination New
South Wales, one of the thingsthat came up was recruitment of
people with a disability and,and how to actually make the
recruitment process moreinclusive.
Like, I know that we train ourgraduates, like we prep them,
you know, we do mock interviews,we do resume training, resume
(14:16):
building and all of that.
And I think that that's reallyimportant because they're really
big life skills.
Yeah.
but what do you think of thenormal recruitment process
within hospitality?
It's quite lengthy and formy.
right?
Sophia Ballone (14:27):
Um, yeah.
Saraya (14:28):
How many forms did you fill out the other day?
Sophia Ballone (14:31):
Um, that well, that's just the beginning.
But, um, yeah, no, I definitelythink it's, it needs, it's very
outdated.
Yeah.
Um, I also think there needs tobe a way to reintroduce trials.
Um, I understand that there is Alot of legal payroll.
(14:51):
Yeah.
there's a very, a lot of legalreasons why we can't do trials
anymore.
But, um, realistically, you lookat some of their, like some of
our guys' resumes and theyhaven't had any experience out
of, outside of etico.
Um, so
Saraya (15:06):
it doesn't show who they are.
doesn't show what they can doand it doesn't show them
Andrea (15:10):
And they don't have the skills and the confidence to
articulate it in an interview.
Sophia Ballone (15:16):
Like I I definitely feel like, um, what
we do, how we support, how Isupport them through their
interviews, it helps a lot.
But even then, sometimes I'mlike, I'm sitting back and I'm
watching them and I'm like, Oh,I know that you can do better
than that Like I know that it'sjust they're nervous and while
they might not necessarily admitit to to me they they're always
(15:39):
excited and i'm like, I knowit's exciting, but it's also
nerve wracking and i always tellthem like It's okay to be
nervous
Andrea (15:46):
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (15:46):
as well as a little bit scared maybe and even
excited but Like at the end ofthe day a job interview isn't a
job interview and Unfortunatelywith people with disabilities,
it doesn't necessarily give themthe opportunity.
to shine.
Andrea (15:59):
And let's not forget that the majority of our
graduates have an intellectualdisability rather than a
physical disability.
So that, that group we heardfrom Tracy Lee the other day is
even more disadvantaged when itcomes to employment.
So that's another layer ofcomplication.
But it makes me think, I wasthinking, because that's what I
do, I just think, That maybeanother way of, sort of part of
(16:28):
the recruitment of the leadingup to the recruitment through
before graduation is to actuallyhave almost like famil type of
incursions here by the HR, therecruitment people from hotels
that come and see almost like asmystery shoppers our trainees in
action at work.
(16:48):
And so they see them here atwork, which sort of makes up a
little bit for that trial thatthey can't afford the risk of
doing.
They see them here in action.
So I think there's, there'ssomething in there that we could
sort of think of.
You don't look very enthusiasticI think there's an opportunity
there.
Saraya (17:06):
It's easier said than done because there's time
restraints on HR.
I think it's a hundred percent.
Like we've got, um, industrypartners that come and, that
come and stay, come and visit,and we really encourage it, but
for those that can't, I think,you know, like, uh, the videos
that we do, the skills videos,and I think that that's
something that, and it shouldn'tjust be for people with a
(17:30):
disability.
There are so many, like, therecruitment processes, like
cover letters, are so outdated,Oh yeah.
you know, like, it's just, it'sIt shouldn't just be for people
with a disability.
Yes, there should be someexceptions, but there are so
many more people would, um,really value from that.
Like, there are so many things.
Like, it's so nerve wrackinggoing for a job interview.
(17:52):
And, and I think people need to,you know, it's, it's a great
skill to, to be able tointerview and, and, and things
like that.
But there's just, there's somuch that can be done.
Like, what about a walkinginterview?
It puts people at ease.
Like, there's simple things thatthat can be done.
to make things just that littlebit more relaxed.
Like I know when I interview,it's about a conversation.
(18:15):
It's not an interrogation.
And I feel like there's just,and I don't think people mean to
interrogate people, but you'retrained in a certain way in HR,
right?
No offense, though.
Sophia Ballone (18:26):
No, I, I think that was something that I always
made a point of when I used to,hold interviews.
it's a conversation.
It's to get to know each other.
it's to see.
if, You like what we're sellingand if, what, and whether we
like what you're selling.
it's not necessarily just a,interrogation like you said.
Saraya (18:47):
another way that we, we as a business, like we, to
transition our graduates is whatwe've been working on and what
Soph works on in the, transitionprogram is the work experience.
So actually having workexperience where you know that
they want to work or wherethey've got interest to hire,
that, that's another way.
But we pay for that as abusiness, but for other people
(19:08):
with a disability that aren't inHotel Etico, it's really
difficult.
Sophia Ballone (19:12):
And that's part of the reason why, I've
increased the work experience.
Saraya (19:17):
Yeah.
,Absolutely.
It's it's essential.
Um, because Continuousimprovement on the program.
Absolutely.
Sophia Ballone (19:22):
Yeah, no, I've increased it through an extra
week, um, for this new groupbecause I think giving them a
little bit of exposure a littlebit earlier, but also giving
them employer the opportunity
Andrea (19:33):
Yeah, of course.
Sophia Ballone (19:33):
to experience them, um, and so it gives us a
bit of a a chance for them tohave.
That exposure to something, uh,potentially a hotel that's
bigger.
Um, because I can think of acouple of guys that would would
be exceptional for, um,reception or concierge.
(19:55):
Unfortunately, we're a boutiquehotel.
We can't get that exposure.
give them the true experience ofthat.
Um, So, yeah, I, it's, andthat's something that I'm very,
very upfront with, um, thepartners that I do place them
with in their work experience.
I let them know, I'm like, okay,we're, we just need work
experience at this point intime, but we would really like
(20:17):
you to consider off the back ofwork experience employment.
Um, and it's kind of, kind ofcovers that trial without
necessarily, um, having to addanother layer to it.
Andrea (20:29):
Yeah.
Saraya (20:29):
Another thing that I think, employers could really
use some help with is the, theforms and the process behind
hiring somebody.
it, it becomes reallyoverwhelming for somebody with a
disability.
All of the forms, you know, thetechnology behind it, constant
emails and so on.
(20:50):
How do you support the graduatesto, to do that?
Sophia Ballone (20:55):
How I do it?
How I do it?
I do it for them.
so I'll sit down and have aconversation with them and fill
it out with them.
I, yeah, if they, the employerneeds a point of contact, I'm
their point of contact.
because like you said, they doget overwhelmed with emails.
They do get over, Some of themwon't answer phone calls.
and it's, it's hard.
(21:18):
It's, it's, there's a lot, likeby all means even even for me,
when I was looking for a job andtrying to apply and, going
through the process, I, like,you're always on edge and you're
always
Saraya (21:30):
What?
are you laughing at?
Andrea (21:31):
Cover letter?
Saraya (21:32):
Yeah.
Didn't you hear my, dig beforeabout how outdated the
recruitment process is, such ascover letters?
Andrea (21:39):
Yeah, but, you know, there's jobs and there's jobs.
So, yeah, I, I agree.
Like, intuitively, one wouldthink out there, Oh, you know,
why are you doing it for them?
You're sort of, they're notlearning.
Let's be honest, like what, whatpart of filling in a form is
such an essential skill?
I hate forms.
they might never be able tolearn to do that.
(22:02):
We need to accept that.
Yeah, well the other thing is, alot of these forms are, Are very
HR e they're very legallanguage, so, um, even to a lay,
like, any lay person, they, youread that and you're like, what
am I reading,
Saraya (22:17):
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (22:18):
I don't understand it and so, I think
part of the reason why I like todo it with them is because I can
explain it to them and some
Saraya (22:25):
Easy read.
Yeah.
And put it into language thatpeople understand.
Sophia Ballone (22:28):
Exactly.
Saraya (22:29):
We have, like for example here, we have all of our
policies in EasyRoute, and Ithink that that
Andrea (22:35):
So you're saying in addition to, sort of, helping
the graduate sort of completingthe form, Helping the employer.
Employers, what we do, what wecan do and what we do is help
them transform their practicesso that they're more inclusive.
Saraya (22:52):
Yes.
Right.
A hundred percent.
again, and I say this it's notjust to help people with a
disability, but if you makethese slight changes, it
actually helps every singleperson in that workplace.
Andrea (23:04):
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Saraya (23:06):
It gets huge.
There's so many different, um,things that you can do.
Um, and we go in and we helpemployers do this.
I'm like, if you don't know, youdon't know.
But there's no silly questions,there's no dumb questions.
like, it can be the stupidestquestion and we'll take that
call.
Andrea (23:20):
What are some of the common misconceptions that
businesses have about hiringpeople with disabilities?
Sophia Ballone (23:26):
They're not going to be as efficient.
Saraya (23:28):
And productive.
Sophia Ballone (23:29):
Yeah.
by all means, the trainingperiod is, it will take them a
little longer.
but that's why we're here.
We provide the support.
for their employer, for thegraduates, so that they can take
that extra time and learn itproperly.
Once they learn it properly,they'll be the first one to tell
you you're doing it wrong.
Andrea (23:48):
Yeah.
Sophia Ballone (23:49):
So.
Andrea (23:50):
There's a great chart that I think you guys used in in
your tour around the state withDestination New South Wales that
shows like the gap of skills andthe fact that we fill in that
gap.
And that gap could reduce overtime or could be always there to
some extent or become bigger orsmaller depending on the time
because Lots of stuff happens inlife, you know, like life events
(24:12):
that create sort of a traumaticexperience for a person that
sort of puts a challenge.
Saraya (24:18):
There's two different gaps.
There's a skills gap that youcan train, or there is a gap
Andrea (24:25):
capacity,
Saraya (24:26):
like adjustments, like, soph super short.
Can't reach the top shelf.
That's an adjustment that weneed to make for her.
Andrea (24:36):
Yeah.
Saraya (24:39):
It's, the adjustments that you make for people with a
disability is the same as makingadjustments for anybody else.
the work from home.
A lot of people work from homenow.
Andrea (24:48):
So actually that's, that's a good, example.
Like, could could you give usum, two or three practical
examples of things that we'vedone, equipment that we bought,
adjustments that we've made hereat Autoletico that may have been
even taken to the employers, um,that try and sort of bridge that
gap for some of our graduates.
(25:10):
What have we done?
What can be done?
Saraya (25:11):
Only two or three?
Cause we could, yeah, only acouple.
We could name a couple.
Sophia Ballone (25:16):
My favorite one that we have implemented here is
the, um, Queen and King Sheets.
Saraya (25:22):
It's So my favorite.
Andrea (25:24):
explain that?
Saraya (25:25):
Um, so in our housekeeping area where we have
our, um, Queen and King sheets,we have a picture of a Queen and
King rather than words Queen andKing.
Andrea (25:36):
Simple.
Sophia Ballone (25:37):
simple, easy, It's literally cost you nothing.
Queen and King.
And it's so much more efficientand,
Saraya (25:43):
especially because all the sheets are white.
Andrea (25:44):
So do you have like what, King Charles and Queen
Elizabeth?
No.
We should do that.
Sophia Ballone (25:49):
No, because not everyone recognises them.
Saraya (25:51):
Not everybody recognises them.
We've got the very visual, theeasy, Queen.
Andrea (25:57):
And the words as well.
So there's both, right?
Saraya (25:58):
Yeah, there is both.
And that, that is free.
And, um, again, it doesn't justIf I go in there, I'm like,
Andrea (26:06):
What else from an equipment point of view?
Sophia Ballone (26:10):
From an equipment point of view?
Saraya (26:11):
Well, there's Dom.
Dom at the Fairmont.
So, he has dexterity, you know,limitations.
just Strength limitations.
and he loves housekeeping.
He, he wanted to be inhousekeeping.
and his is a mop.
He couldn't do housekeeping'cause he couldn't use the mop
here.
So, it's about getting thatassessment in.
(26:32):
And that was all done throughJob Access.
Andrea (26:34):
It's an awesome mop.
Saraya (26:35):
It's an, oh, you can't,
Sophia Ballone (26:36):
everyone wants it.
Saraya (26:36):
Yeah, Everyone wants it.
It went with him.
Sophia Ballone (26:39):
Yeah, it did go with him.
Saraya (26:39):
It went with him.
Andrea (26:40):
Well I think we've got another one now,'cause I saw, I
saw someone yell someone elseusing it here, so I think we
bought another one.
Saraya (26:45):
We did, yeah, we did buy a new one.
But, um, you know, a mop thatyou push into drain instead of
the ones that you,
Andrea (26:51):
Without too much strength, and you just
Saraya (26:52):
Yeah, It's really old school ones that you see in the
hotels?
that have them.
Oh yeah.
Andrea (26:58):
And that's easy, that's an easy thing.
Saraya (27:00):
It's easy.
And and I think, um, a commonmisconception is that it's going
to cost the employer so muchmoney.
That didn't cost our, us, or thefamily where he is now, any
money.
Andrea (27:11):
Cause it's government funded.
Saraya (27:12):
It's government funded.
He has, the funding for it.
which is really good.
Andrea (27:16):
So that's great.
Saraya (27:17):
In the bar, for example, like we have, you know, wine
jiggers.
Andrea (27:21):
And the tampers for coffee.
Sophia Ballone (27:24):
I was going to say the tampers
Saraya (27:26):
Everyone loves the tampers.
Great it's like it puts less,
Andrea (27:30):
There's a spring loaded one, There's an automatic one.
Saraya (27:32):
We were talking to um, Ashoria, yesterday, what was the
one that she was telling youabout?
Andrea (27:37):
Yeah, like the, to pour glasses of wine, Like I haven't
seen it yet, I haven't quitepictured what it looks like.
Saraya (27:42):
Yeah, so what I picture it, and I'm sure it'll come in
the next few weeks, is becausewe have a trainee that shakes a
lot, he can't pour the bottle ofwine with that, but it actually
pours it from the bottlestanding up, so it like, it
automatically pours
Andrea (27:57):
the right amount,
Saraya (27:58):
the right amount from the bottle standing up.
It's Brilliant, that's cool, sosmart.
Andrea (28:02):
Can we talk a little bit about the difference that
employing someone with makeswithin the culture of an
organization, and I can thinkof, You know some of the
anecdotes that uh, have beenoffered to us by our employment
partners to say that thedifference that this has made.
(28:23):
What does it change?
What does it do?
Sophia Ballone (28:26):
what doesn't it do?
It's actually incredible how tohave just one person.
how it changes the wholeatmosphere and environment of a
hotel.
Particularly Back of House,like,
Saraya (28:39):
You've experienced it firsthand too, before you came
here, so you're probably one ofthe.
the people that can reallyexplain it to employers.
because
Andrea (28:48):
It lifts the happiness rate?
Saraya (28:49):
Yeah, it's,
Sophia Ballone (28:52):
the fact that you have someone so excited, so
enthusiastic, so happy to be atwork and to be there, and just
constantly greeting everyone.
And, I remember I, I, thisparticular graduate, I had to
have a conversation with himbecause he was going through the
whole hotel at one stage sayinggood morning to everyone.
(29:15):
Which was making him late forhis shift.
Saraya (29:17):
So he just needed to get there way, way, way early.
Sophia Ballone (29:20):
Yeah, exactly.
So, um, yeah.
But it was, it was wonderfuljust seeing how happy everyone
was to see him.
How happy he was there.
And that just changedeverything.
Back of house, the, yeah, themood just was constantly a lot
better.
Saraya (29:39):
I get really, um, homesick from Etiko if I've been
away for too long.
Like if we're in the city withmeetings and stuff like that, I
get really, really homesickbecause you walk in and it's
just like, Like, and it's justlike, it just lifts you.
Andrea (29:56):
It's an injection of happiness.
and yeah, authenticity.
There's a certain level ofauthenticity, especially with
people with intellectualdisability, autism, Down
syndrome.
That's just, open book.
Sophia Ballone (30:13):
Yeah,
Saraya (30:13):
I think people are pleasantly surprised when they
work with somebody that has adisability that can actually
work, and that can, you know,has the skills to be able to
work.
They have this, their perceptionof that person changes, their
perception of disabilitychanges.
and I think, you know, well, Imean, us three in the room,
absolutely, but I think mostpeople go to work because they,
(30:39):
they, don't just go to workbecause it's a job, right?
They go, yes, money is needed,makes the world go round, live
but I think most people want toknow that they're doing good,
and especially at work.
I think a lot of people wantthat, and I think that they get
that when it's within theirculture.
Andrea (30:58):
And, that's all we want to do in terms of changing the
culture of an organization.
if there are pockets of peoplethat, haven't thought about
that.
They just do it because theyneed to do it by working with
someone with a disability orworking with an organization
that has an inclusive approachto their hiring practices.
(31:19):
It just changes completely theperspective and the perception
of your employer.
You want to work there.
Saraya (31:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrea (31:28):
so isn't, isn't there an anecdote of, um, uh, the
Fairmont Resorts that hasreported to us that whenever we
do training Um, arounddisability, That's the most
attended.
the best attended.
Sophia Ballone (31:42):
Yeah, the highest attendee, um, or
attendance for training, isactually the training that we
provide.
Saraya (31:50):
Actually, that's a great segue into, what does Hotel
Etiquette do for employers?
Yes, we help them with therecruitment process and
everything, um, but we are much,much more.
So we support them you know,throughout the entire journey,
one of our graduates.
But there are also employersthat don't have our graduates
that we support, that we train.
Um, so I think it's reallyimportant to to cover that.
(32:12):
Like, what do we do?
Andrea (32:14):
At industry level.
Saraya (32:15):
At industry level.
What do we do?
In a nutshell, Cause we do alot.
Sophia Ballone (32:19):
Yeah, we do do a lot.
definitely training, um, and Ithink that's crucial and I'd
like to also take thisopportunity to Pretty much ask
our partners as well to not beafraid to take us on for
training because I noticed evenwhen even though they might be
open and they might already havesome graduates with with them
(32:41):
There's never like not enoughtraining you can have and with
this in hospitality, it's so newthat by all means, just take
advantage of what we canactually do.
Andrea (32:54):
What is some of the training that we do?
What topics?
What do we cover?
Saraya (32:58):
Um, what do we?
you name it.
You've got disability etiquette,you've got autism, Down
syndrome, we've got onlinemodules.
we also do one on one coaching.
Like, it's not,
Andrea (33:09):
um, With HR, with supervisors.
Saraya (33:12):
And if we don't have the training, we'll find the
training.
we're not
Andrea (33:16):
Partnering with others.
Saraya (33:16):
Yeah, we're not exclusive.
Like, if, If we need to, if wedon't have the training that
they want, say, um, mentalhealth, or um, I'm trying to
think of something we don'thave, but if we don't have it.
Andrea (33:29):
So, for example, the training we did, uh, for autism,
we did it in partnership withAspect, right?
Saraya (33:34):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think that there's such a good,
movement at the moment withinthe disability space that we are
all collaborative.
You know, we're not competitive.
Um, we want, everybody has thesame mission, and that is for,
people to be more included.
Andrea (33:51):
Because it's like rising the tide all the boats lift.
That's another metaphor.
Saraya (33:57):
Is it?
Sophia Ballone (33:58):
Yes, it is.
Saraya (33:59):
I've never heard that one.
Okay, what is it?
Andrea (34:01):
If you increase the level of the tide.
Saraya (34:03):
No, no, no, Say it from the beginning so I can
comprehend it.
What is it?
Andrea (34:07):
Well, It's rising the level of the tide so that all
the boats lift.
Saraya (34:10):
Never heard it.
Andrea (34:11):
So we're working on the tide, on the water, not on the
boats.
Yes.
Okay.
The boats are there, we'reworking on the water, filling
more water in there.
Saraya (34:19):
Nah, I really am not getting that metaphor.
Got a better one?
Sophia Ballone (34:23):
give him some time.
Saraya (34:26):
I think another, another thing with employers is that
Well, not the ones we currentlywork with, they're pretty good,
but, like people are scared toask questions.
Sophia Ballone (34:34):
Oh yeah, that's it, and it's really funny
because, I'll be the first oneto call it out.
when I speak to employers, I'mlike, I get it, you're scared.
Like, it's, fear is normal, andit's fine because it's something
that's new.
Andrea (34:47):
Of the unknown,
Sophia Ballone (34:48):
Yeah, it's, it's being scared of the unknown, and
that's why I keep saying I'mlike, That's why we're here.
We, we are like your littlesource of information.
Saraya (34:57):
That should definitely be one of our mottos.
Andrea (35:00):
That's why we're here?
Saraya (35:01):
No, the other one?
Andrea (35:03):
Which one?
Saraya (35:04):
You guys didn't pick up on it.
Oh.
Don't be afraid to ask questionslike No, no.
One of our mottoes should be,it's normal It's normal to have
fear.
is normal.
Andrea (35:15):
Yeah.
Saraya (35:16):
Like it's a human nature to have fear.
Sophia Ballone (35:18):
And Especially when you're talking about big
businesses, because at the endof the day, you're, you're
running an empire.
You're running something that's,um, you're scared to bring
something new in because youdon't know what the impact is
going to be.
Andrea (35:31):
But again, as I said to an audience of hoteliers a few
months ago, like, No one's goingto sue you.
You're actually offering a jobto someone.
You're giving an opportunity ofa lifetime to someone.
They're not going to take you onfor doing, for saying the wrong
word or, you know, like,approaching things in the wrong
way, you're there to help themand you open up a completely
(35:53):
different world.
Saraya (35:55):
Everybody has the right to sue, not just somebody with a
disability.
You probably have morelikelihood of being sued by
somebody that doesn't have adisability.
Sophia Ballone (36:01):
yes, it would be actually really.
really good idea if we could,when we actually tell them that
they've been recruited, to getthe reaction that like a video
reaction of the graduate andalso the family.
I think that's, what, in ourprocess the employers miss.
(36:24):
they'll see them enthusiasticand everything when they start.
and I'll see them all nervous intheir interviews, but that By
all means, don't take it awayfrom me.
I that's my favorite part of thejob.
But, yeah, I think it's, it'ssomething that would be really
cool.
Saraya (36:39):
I love it.
I also, I think I love, I loveit when the employers call me
and just to say, hey, like, thisperson's a bit of a, they're
amazing.
Or, hey, come and visit,surprise them, come and see
them.
I think that's one of myfavourite parts of my job.
Definitely fills my cup.
Andrea (36:58):
So you must be always on the road.
Sophia Ballone (37:04):
I've gotten used to driving, that's for sure.
Andrea (37:06):
Lots of, uh, podcasts listening.
Saraya (37:08):
Yeah,
Sophia Ballone (37:10):
actually, no,
Andrea (37:11):
This will give you content.
Saraya (37:13):
She won't she won't, listen to this one.
Sophia Ballone (37:15):
Oh, no, I can't listen to my own voice.
Yeah, definitely, The otherepisodes.
no, I actually love I'm a verybig Car karaoke girl.
So I'm literally like, when I'mdriving up here, I'm like,
Saraya (37:26):
Oh my God, yes, let's do it.
I, I'm the same.
I'm like, I need the bangers.
I had some great bangers onthere, but sometimes like the
morning, sometimes I prefer apodcast because I can just,
definitely on the way home.
I'm a podcast person, butsometimes you just need some pep
music.
Andrea (37:47):
All right.
Let's get back to serious stuff.
Saraya (37:49):
What's not serious
Andrea (37:51):
What are the biggest challenges in moving from
providing jobs to creatingcareers, lasting careers for
people with disabilities?
What's the difference?
What, is there a difference?
Sophia Ballone (38:04):
I think it's actually the graduates that's
probably the biggest challengebecause they are so happy with
whatever they get that theywon't be picky.
They won't be aspirational and Iconstantly have to be
encouraging them.
I'm like, guys, you need to beable to communicate what you
want.
You need to communicate.
If you're interested in adifferent department, Like, let
(38:27):
us know, talk about it, um,because, you
Andrea (38:31):
And we've we've had people moving around.
Within the same hotels ordifferent hotels.
Sophia Ballone (38:36):
Yeah.
Saraya (38:36):
You're right, actually.
I never really thought aboutthat because, you know, it's not
necessarily the employers thatdon't want to build a career
pathway.
Andrea (38:43):
Because they don't know what they don't know.
Basically.
Saraya (38:46):
that's a big hurdle.
I've, I've, I, know it.
I've never said it out loud.
That's I love this podcast.
Sophia Ballone (38:54):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
like that's
Andrea (38:57):
And so how do we support them to think of a career rather
than a job?
Sophia Ballone (39:01):
Surely building confidence.
Yeah, it's building confidence.
Andrea (39:04):
How do you do that?
Sophia Ballone (39:06):
having honest chats with them about things,
about the options that theyhave.
making sure that, you know,they're actually comfortable and
confident within the rolethey're currently doing.
Yeah, I I definitely think, andhaving, and being able to also,
help them get the confidence tospeak to their employers about
(39:27):
it as well.
I think that's anotherchallenge.
Saraya (39:29):
I think the one year here really does help, though,
Oh yeah.
to build that confidence.
So, like, the confidence thatthey have from the start.
Andrea (39:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
Saraya (39:36):
To When they graduate, like, that's already
Andrea (39:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so in terms of, in terms ofhow you provide the support,
obviously we said you're on theroad a lot, you see them, you
talk to them, you call them, youemail them, You got lots of
touch points.
But you also have a bit of ateam of people, I suppose, that
go around and work with them,right?
Support workers.
Sophia Ballone (39:58):
Yeah.
Andrea (39:58):
Yeah.
Um, like how does that work?
What do they do?
Are they always with them?
Are they always with thegraduates?
Sophia Ballone (40:06):
so when they first commence a role, um, I've
made sure that they have asupport worker with them for the
first month, um, so that theyyou know, get used to the
routine, the team from theemployer's side have someone
that they can actually give whatneeds to be done so that they
can get, they can work ongetting them on the routine
(40:28):
rather than the employer havingto get them into it.
and.
After that, it's really justchecking to see what the
individual needs.
Andrea (40:36):
And then you slowly pull away?
Sophia Ballone (40:38):
Yeah, and slowly start pulling away.
Some of them will turn aroundand tell us that, they don't
need them from one week to thenext.
I can think of a couple thathave done that to me.
Andrea (40:46):
That's great.
Sophia Ballone (40:47):
Yeah, it's, it's the best feeling.
Andrea (40:48):
is it the employer tells you that or the graduate?
Sophia Ballone (40:51):
No, the graduate.
Saraya (40:53):
But there's also, um, I think there's a level of trust
with the employer to reach outif they need help.
Like, we, we also, like, we've,we've, we've backed away support
once completely for a yearbecause they were completely
fine in their job, they didn't,like, I mean, not the touch
points and stuff, but I meantthe one on one on the job
support.
Um, and then a year later, he'slike, yeah, so, I want to move
(41:14):
into another job.
So let's, and then the supportwas back, you know, to get into
a new routine and stuff.
So.
I think Etico, you always, it'slike the hotel, you always, you
never leave, right?
Andrea (41:28):
Yes, we talked about the Hotel California.
and who, this is like foremployers, like who actually
covers the cost of that supportworker?
Who pays for it?
Sophia Ballone (41:39):
NDIS.
Saraya (41:41):
Yeah.
Andrea (41:41):
So we cover that cost through, through the NDIS.
effectively.
Saraya (41:45):
So our participants um, have, have the funding for that
ongoing support.
Andrea (41:49):
Yeah.
So the employer actually doesn'thave to do anything.
Sophia Ballone (41:52):
No.
Just let us know.
Saraya (41:53):
And also, and also the disability services that we work
with, the disability providersthat we work with also have that
type of support.
Andrea (41:58):
Those job subsidies as well.
Saraya (41:59):
job services, but they do on the job support.
They're a third party for us.
Like We aren't we aren't asprovider.
So they're a third party, theykeep us pretty honest.
Um, and they, they basicallyhelp, um, our graduates as well.
So they have two, which isreally great.
It's all about wraparoundsupport.
Sophia Ballone (42:15):
Yeah.
Andrea (42:17):
any advice for, cause we need to probably start wrapping
it up.
what any advice that you wouldgive to businesses that might be
listening to us, that if theywere interested in becoming more
inclusive in their hiringpractices or interested in,
Yeah, Employing someone withdisability or working with us.
Sophia Ballone (42:33):
Call us.
Saraya (42:34):
We don't have a 1 800 number.
Just putting it out there.
Um, but also, I think thebiggest one is just don't be
scared.
Yeah.
There's no stupid questioneither.
Sophia Ballone (42:45):
It's normal to be scared to introduce something
new.
Um, and yeah, it's, it's justthat little leap, making that
little leap.
And just
Saraya (42:58):
even if we don't have a graduate necessarily, we can
still help them employ otherpeople.
Sophia Ballone (43:02):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We can, We can help them yeah,with training, or we can help
them finding an avenue wherethey can start developing what
they need to be able to actuallyemploy someone with a
disability.
Andrea (43:14):
And we are starting to build up the numbers quite a
bit.
So we can now sort of I'vecovered quite a few different
regions in terms of where theemployees can come from.
Because we were saying inprevious episodes that, you
know, our trainees come from twoor three hours away from
Victoria, which means, you know,like all the way from Canberra
(43:36):
to Bathurst to to the BlueMountains, Sutherland Shire,
Northern Beaches, Newcastle, Andso then.
If I'm from Newcastle, well, andI'm a graduate, I can probably
look for a job even north ofNewcastle or West of Newcastle.
You know, like there's, there'sthe radius keeps increasing.
So we've recently set up this,neat little thing on our
(44:00):
dashboard, on our system, right.
You and I.
That shows us the map coverage.
Sophia Ballone (44:05):
Yeah.
It's so good.
Andrea (44:06):
It's so good Cause it shows us the map coverage of
where our trainees are comingfrom and where the employees
are.
And so you can do it.
It's fantastic.
Saraya (44:14):
I know, I know.
I've been, I work in the sameoffice as you two.
but You two just get all excitedabout it and stuff.
And I'm like, geeks be geekingout.
I've got one last question foryou.
Are you finished?
Yes.
Yes.
Um, and this is going to be areally tough one.
Um, and I think I'm going to doit to all of our staff when we
interview them.
What is your favorite part oraspect of your job, what Gets
(44:40):
you out of bed to come to workevery day.
What's your favorite?
Andrea (44:44):
The alarm.
Sophia Ballone (44:44):
I can't say you too.
You can say us too.
That's a compliment.
Andrea (44:49):
You're not allowed to suck up to us.
Sophia Ballone (44:51):
damn it, okay.
Saraya (44:52):
I'll take it on board.
Suck up all you like.
Sophia Ballone (44:55):
oh that one's a hard one.
Saraya (44:58):
So obviously it's us, Andrea.
Sophia Ballone (45:02):
That's really, really hard.
I I really enjoy just therelationships that I create with
the, trainees and with thegraduates.
it's like someone else that'ssuper excited to see you.
honestly, I absolutely love thatfeeling and I get so excited to
come up here.
Especially since, you know, Ihave a two hour drive to get
(45:24):
here.
Saraya (45:25):
It's yeah, It's not an easy hike.
Andrea (45:27):
Big commitment.
Sophia Ballone (45:28):
but yeah, no, and it's really funny.
cause Sometimes I'm like, okay,I've got this, I've got this, I
can do this.
and Waking up at 5am or 5 30,and I'm just like, I can do
this.
And then I walk through thesedoors and I'm just like, yeah,
Andrea (45:43):
I mean, your job is one of the hardest one.
I'm not just saying becauseyou're here, like you, the, the
rate of success, is, is, iscritical and like for any one of
us.
To get one job, you probablyneed to do 10 interviews.
or, you know, and, and, and soit takes a long time.
(46:07):
And so once you lock that personin, it's like, yes.
It's like you, you're too youngto remember the ad from h r
Block, which is a tax agent.
There was, there was, a ladythat was doing the accounts and
finding, a saving for, for uh,for a customer, for a client.
And she goes like, she looksaround, and she goes.
(46:28):
Yes,
Saraya (46:29):
I think I've seen it.
Sophia Ballone (46:30):
I think I have seen it too.
Saraya (46:32):
In Queensland we used to have very different ads.
Like we, like you know how it'sNRMA down here?
it's RACQ up there.
If you're ever bored, YouTube,RACQ ads.
They are the greatest thingyou'll ever see.
It's way better than yes.
Andrea (46:47):
Yeah, well, but you know the satisfaction, the level of
that sense of satisfaction anduh, which,
Sophia Ballone (46:53):
Yeah, the, definitely the level of
satisfaction once they get um, arole is incredible.
Saraya (47:00):
But, it can,
Andrea (47:01):
but you're saying also the smile in their face when
they see you.
Saraya (47:03):
it can be deflating though.
Sophia Ballone (47:04):
But it, it like, exhausting.
I, I remember my first weekwhere I got multiple rejections
for them and I was pretty muchin a ball.
on the, I was just right therewith you with chocolates.
Yeah, it's really hard.
Saraya (47:16):
We have lots of chocolate, that's fine.
We, We have a stash ofchocolates for those things.
Yeah.
There's really tough weeks.
The rejection
Sophia Ballone (47:23):
That's why we do what we do.
Because it's hard.
I know.
We don't do it because it'seasy.
Yeah.
Everyone would do it.
Everybody would do it.
Andrea (47:30):
You know who's quote that is, right?
Saraya (47:31):
Yours?
Andrea (47:32):
JFK.
Saraya (47:33):
JFK, no.
I'm not great.
Andrea (47:34):
We choose to go to the moon, not because it's easy.
We choose to go into the moonbecause it's hard.
Saraya (47:41):
Okay, if I can't get metaphors right, what makes you
think I'm going to get quotesright?
Andrea (47:46):
Listen to me.
Saraya (47:47):
There are there are many things that are great about me,
but there are many things thataren't.
That is one.
Andrea (47:52):
Okay.
Sophia Ballone (47:52):
I think there are more great things than
Saraya (47:53):
Oh, thank you, Sophie, you really are a suck up today.
Sophia Ballone (47:56):
Thank you.
Andrea (47:57):
Anything else to close this off?
Saraya (47:59):
No, I think that's a wrap.
Andrea (48:01):
Yeah, that's a wrap.
Well, Sophia, it's been a greatpleasure to have you.
Saraya (48:06):
You'll be on again, because we barely barely
scratched the surface of how wecan help people.
Andrea (48:11):
absolutely.
You'll be a regular.
Sophia Ballone (48:13):
Thanks.
Saraya (48:15):
She's like, uh oh.
Andrea (48:15):
You sound so excited.
Sophia Ballone (48:17):
Well, The first one is done and dusted and, and,
you know.
Saraya (48:20):
It's fun.
Andrea (48:20):
And I have to say, you've got a great voice.
Saraya (48:22):
Yeah, you do.
For somebody that doesn't like.
Andrea (48:24):
I don't know if it's the mic or something, but you've got
a great, warm voice for, um,for, for radio.
Sophia Ballone (48:28):
Makes me feel a little bit better about my
voice.
Saraya (48:32):
I like it.
Andrea (48:33):
okay.
Well, thank you very much,Sophia.
Thanks to our listeners.
And don't forget to subscribe,like, follow,
Saraya (48:40):
I don't think we've ever said that before.
Do people still subscribe andlike?
Andrea (48:44):
Yeah, it's very, very important.
So send suggestions.
Saraya (48:48):
Oh yeah, actually you're right, Lylah.
I need to subscribe.
Andrea (48:51):
We need a few influencers out there That's
sort of like.
Sophia Ballone (48:53):
Okay, Lylah and William.
Saraya (48:55):
Okay, Lylah is my daughter and William is.
Andrea (48:58):
but yes, uh, we'll close it here.
We thank everyone for listeningand, uh, uh, until next time
from Andrea Comastri.
And Saraya O'Connell.
let's make room for all and keepfighting for inclusion.
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