March 11, 2025 • 54 mins
Few have shaped the world of hydroplane racing like John Walters. In part 1 of this captivating conversation, we dive deep into the remarkable journey of a legend whose impact spans more than five decades of boat racing evolution. For anyone fascinated by the intersection of human determination, mechanical innovation, and the pursuit of excellence, John Walters' journey embodies the very soul of hydroplane racing. Make sure to tune in next week to continue the conversation with John in part 2!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:25):
Rooster Tail Talk, the podcast dedicated to
everything about the sport thatwe all love.
Hi, dr Plain Reese.
I am your host, david Newton,and it's time once again.
So sit back, relax and welcometo Rooster Tail Talk.
Dale Topp.
(00:49):
Hello race fans, welcome backto the show.
We're on to episode 140.
And, joining for this episodeand the next few, I'm talking
with John Walters.
Now John Walters is a legend ofthe sport and many people know
his background from hispain-packed days because he made
(01:10):
a name for himself in the sportdriving one of the first
turbine-powered unlimitedhydroplanes.
But he got the first victoryfor a turbine unlimited
hydroplane back in the early 80sover 40 years ago, which seems
like a lifetime ago.
But he has been hard at worksince then and long before that
time around the sport ofhydroplanes and really has given
(01:33):
a lot to the sport andpropelled a lot of things for
the further advancement andfinding more speed in the boats.
He's built many boats over theyears and I think you're going
to learn a lot about John if youdon't know him that well, how
much of a passion he has forhydroplane racing but how much
he has given back to the sport.
Now, when I talk to people thataren't familiar with hydroplane
(01:57):
racing.
I think some have a stereotypethat it's kind of a backyard
build a boat and there's not alot of smarts required in the
sport, as it's not a.
It's a high, highly paid gig.
It's not well financed and it'snot as pristine to some as some
(02:19):
would say, like formula oneracing is.
But it takes a lot of smarts todo what these people do in
building the boats, driving theboats, working on them, and John
Walters exemplifies theintellect needed to do well in
the sport and he is such a smartman and he's like.
You're going to come away withsome great behind the scenes
(02:40):
stories from John.
I really love talking with him.
It's been a highly requestedinterview for some time and just
hasn't happened yet.
But I'm really excited to getthis out and share this
interview with you because Icould just sit here and probably
listen to him talk for hours onend.
He's got so many great insightto the sport of racing, but if I
(03:02):
can only hone some of hisknowledge in the sport, it's
just so fascinating to hear himtalk about all the different
aspects of the sport.
I'm not going to bore you muchmore with his background,
because we're going to talkabout his background into
hydroplane racing In the earlyyears for him, before he was an
unlimited driver.
He raced for many yearsstarting outboards and inboards,
(03:24):
and you're going to hear moreabout his backgrounds and how he
started to work for somedifferent hydroplane racing
teams, as well as Ron Jones.
So let's get into thatinterview and listen to part one
of my chat with John Walters.
Well, I'm sitting down here inmy boat room, my office, for
Rooster Tail Talk and I'mtalking via Zoom with John
(03:45):
Walters.
John, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You know I'm pretty okay, david I.
You know I'm a little bitsnowbound here.
We got a bunch more snowyesterday and I spent a fair
amount of time pushing some ofit around with the snowplow.
But you know it's it's nothorribly cold, it's beautiful
and and I and I get and Ibeautiful and I'm just good, I'm
just okay.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, yeah, all right .
Well, glad to have you on hereand hopefully the snow will
subside for you.
Over on my side of themountains, the snow has stopped
and we're above 40 degrees now,so it's almost summertime in
Seattle.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
There you go.
We were between 5 and 8 belowzero most of the days last week,
so it was really cold and I'min a very remote area,
surrounded on three sides by theOkanagan National Forest, on
top of Cocoa Mountain at about4,000 feet in elevation.
So spring comes late here andfall comes early, comes early,
(04:46):
um, but uh, um, you know Ipretty much like all the seasons
and um, and pretty wellprepared to deal with, um, you
know, just about anything thatmother nature can throw at me,
and I'm not asking you that asas as you know any kind of a
threat or uh.
You know any kind of a, uh, I'llshow you.
So, yeah, yeah all right.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well, I'm excited to have you on here and I know
diehard hydropine fans know yourname and know your
contributions you've given tothe sport over the many years.
But not everyone knows howthings began for the drivers,
crew members and people aroundthe sport.
For you, where did things beginin hydroplane racing for John
Walters?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You know, being born and raised in the Seattle area,
I did spend some time back inOhio after a while, but, being
born and raised in the Spokanearea and then later in the
Seattle area, I was exposed to alot of different kinds of boat
racing.
A lot of outboards at differentplaces, here and there, stock
(05:42):
outboards which piqued myinterest.
A lot of outboards at differentdifferent places, here and
there stock outboards whichpiqued my interest.
But, um, the the, the eventthat stole my heart was the
diamond cup in Lake Coeurd'Alene, and, and I want to say
it was 1963.
Uh, it was either 1962 or 1963.
I was nine years old, um, anduh, just absolutely crazy over
(06:04):
the boats.
Mean, everything that I saw, um, you know, made me want to be
part of this sport and, in thissport, to be part of my life.
Um, I, um, uh, I hear the storyquite often.
Unfortunately, I lost my dadabout a year ago, um, and he was
a big part of of my life and myboat racing career, of course.
(06:24):
And, um, you know, I I told myparents on the way home, uh, in
the backseat of the car, at nineyears old.
Geez, when I grow up, that'swhat I want to do, and I'm sure
that every little nine year,nine and 10 year old boy in the
pits that day said the samething Um, but I meant it.
And um I.
I went to school with the intentof learning the things that
(06:46):
could help me to race boats whenI got older.
And so I was always interestedin the science and the
engineering classes and the mathclasses and the things that
could help me with that.
I took every shop class I could, whether it was metal or
woodworking or all of those sortof things, again, you know,
hoping that I would be able to,you know, apply those skills
(07:06):
later in my soon to come, youknow, boat racing career.
And so, you know, by the time Iwas 10 years old, I was hooked
to the point that, you know.
I told my dad I really wantedto do this and, you know, was
familiar with the JSTOC class atthat point and my dad made me
an offer and said all right, youcome up with the money and I'll
(07:27):
match whatever, whatever youcome up with, and we'll go buy
some equipment.
I found a, an AB class Swifthydro at a secondhand store in
Burien, washington, and it washad been there for some time.
I told the guy my story, what Iwanted to do.
I started, you know, washingdogs and washing cars and
returning pop bottles andwhatever I it had been there for
some time.
I told the guy my story, what Iwanted to do.
(07:48):
I started washing dogs andwashing cars and returning pop
bottles and whatever I could doto make some money.
And I started making paymentson the thing.
My dad, when I got to half ofit, my dad went in and paid for
the other half and we broughthome a Swift Hydro that we put a
J-stock engine on and the dealwas dad said you know, you got
to play with this thing, butwe'll go to the lake every
(08:08):
weekend.
We'll get a bunch of time on it.
I really want you to befamiliar with it before before
we enter the first race.
And so so we did that and and Igot the opportunity to to run J
stock later on A and B stock.
By that point in time mygrandparents, who live back in
the Ohio area, were gettingpretty old and having a
(08:29):
difficult time keeping up withtheir business and, just you
know, life in general, and so wewould go back there to visit
with my dad's parents help themwith things.
And it seemed like every yearwe went back, we stayed a little
longer till eventually we endedup moving back there for a
short period of time.
And in Region 6, it was alittle more difficult.
In Region 10 here, apba, aseverybody knows, divides up into
(08:53):
regions Region 10 in Washingtonand Oregon, idaho, part of
California there were racesevery weekend, you know very
close, and we could go run justabout anytime we wanted to.
Um in region six, um, there wereraces in pennsylvania or maybe
west virginia or kentucky orwhatever, and sometimes it was
an eight or ten hour drive.
You know each direction to getthere.
(09:13):
So, um, so I was a little bitlimited in in the number of
races that I could run, uh,there, but my dad, being my dad,
um was very supportive and, andyou know, did whatever we could
do and ran as many as we could.
So that's where it all startedand you know, just a whole lot
of things obviously happenedbetween here and there, as I had
mentioned to you earlier.
(09:34):
I'm trying not to let you knowtoo many secrets out here.
I've been working on writingthis book for about almost eight
years now, which I think isliterally weeks away from going
to the printer, and all of thesestories and I'm sure everything
that you and I are going totalk about today, are in the
book in far more detail.
(09:54):
So hopefully it'll be out soonand it's going to be.
Rusty Ray, a dear friend andphotojournalist, is helping me
with it.
It's been really fun workingwith Rusty again.
Rusty was the PR director forPay and Pack in the days that I
was driving the boat there.
So a lot of these you knowstories and a lot of these
experiences we did together andit was, it's been very
(10:17):
interesting to you know, to goback and reminisce with with
some of that stuff, but it'll betitled racing through time a
lot of time with John and ArleneWalter.
So, um, I, um, um, I'm realanxious to get it out there and
and uh, and let everybody youknow hear this story.
I think there's a an awful lotof things in the book that
people are going to be veryinterested in.
(10:37):
There's a lot of behind thescenes stuff and a lot of stuff
that, um, that that people don'tknow about conversations that
took place and why we didcertain things and why we didn't
do other things.
So there you go, it'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Well, I'm looking forward to that and hopefully
your stories today can be atease for your book and not just
give everything away.
And I'll keep asking questions,but you can stop yourself when
you deem fit.
But when should we expect thisbook to be released for public?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Well, I'm hoping that , with you know, as long as it
takes to get it printed, rusty'sabout ready.
I think we've finally got allthe details worked out and
everything sorted out.
We had a few problems here andthere.
Some of the just about everyimage and there's like 300
pictures in the book they allgot scanned in the wrong format
(11:29):
and so the printers couldn't dowhat we wanted to do there
without, you know, re-scanningall the photos.
So Rusty, bless his heart, hasbeen, you know, going through
redoing all of the images.
I think we've finally gottenall of the copyright stuff done
and all of the thank yous to theother photojournalists and
people that we've borrowedphotographs and things and
stories and things from, and soI'm hoping that within the next
(11:50):
14 days or so it's going to beoff to the printers and then, as
quickly as they can get it done, I can start promoting it and
do some advanced sales andactually turn it into a book,
and I'm pretty excited about itand pretty nervous at the same
time.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, that's a big deal, and I love to hear that
you're giving some backgroundinformation that the general
fans may not have access to andthat's part of my podcast, too
is there's so many great storiesout there that need to be
preserved and shared, so I'dlove to hear that.
But getting back to yourdriving days and I heard what
you did you start with J stock.
(12:28):
You started.
I know you started in outboardracings, but was J stock your
first time?
I did start with J stock.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I ran, yeah ran J stock for a while and then and
then A stock outboard.
Um, I probably spent most timein in a B stock outboards.
I ended up driving uh otherboats for other people at
different times in differentclasses, here and there, and was
always looking to try and addto the experience.
And every time I drove adifferent boat I learned
something.
Sometimes it was things Ididn't you know, I'd never
(12:54):
thought about, and sometimes itwas things I didn't want to know
.
But but, but it was still thatthat experience and and my, my
career all the way through thelimited inboards in that too was
that same sort of same sort ofsituation.
(13:14):
I started repairing a lot ofboats for people that were
crashed or broken or hadhandling problems.
A lot of the boats that I droveand later got to be very
successful in some of thoseboats were boats that other guys
didn't want to drive.
I drove boats that people gotthrown out of different, you
know, thrown out of, you know,different times, different
drivers at different times, fordifferent reasons.
And you know we'd get the callevery now and again that, hey,
you know, I've got this boathere that's got some handling
(13:35):
issues.
Would you mind taking a look,or maybe going for a ride, and
you know several of those werefun projects to be able to go
through and sort out what theissues were, make some changes,
see some success there and DaleVan Waringen's five-liter Just
Curious was one of those.
When that boat came out the veryfirst race, tim Johnson that
(13:56):
owned it when it was new gotthrown out of the thing and span
away.
They made a few changes in itand in the next race he got
pitched out of it again and itgot to be a boat that was, it
was very fast, but uh, but hadsome handling issues and and uh,
when dale bought it, uh, weended up, uh, making some
several changes and it changedthe steering in it to, um, you
(14:16):
know, cable steering and got ridof some of the uh, the
highman's and and the push pulltubes and things that were there
.
Those things kind of wear outover time, time and you get a
little bit of slop and someslack in the things and the
sponsons.
You know Ron Jones was doingsome different things with the
sponsons at that point in timeand so I went back to what I
knew worked and we tore thesponsons off of that boat, put
(14:38):
it all back together, ran it acouple of years as a five-liter
and I don't think I ever lost arace in it.
Years as a five liter and Idon't think I ever lost a race
in it.
Uh, mike jones's uh boat, thethe buccaneer, that he got from
john leach, that thing was arocket ship when uh 280, when,
when he first got it and overthe years different people had
made some changes in it.
Uh, some things had worn out,some things.
You know the technology hadgotten better but didn't get
(14:58):
changed, and the same sort ofthing.
Um, you know, I made a fewchanges in that boat.
We went out and enjoyed, youknow, just an extreme amount of
success with Mike Jones in thatboat, easy Racer, and again, I
don't think I ever lost a racein it.
By that point in time I wasstarting to, you know, drive
some unlimited stuff and couldonly, you know, compete here and
there at races.
(15:18):
But, man, it was fun.
I remember in those days, youknow, going to, uh, you know,
different races and especiallyin the two 80 class, and there'd
be 20 or 22 boats show up andthere'd be, you know, five
elimination heats, you know, andand, uh, you know, it was just
crazy and so much fun and, um,and I think that was, you know,
some of the.
The most fun for me was wastaking boats that, um, that
hadn't enjoyed very much successand and turning them into into
(15:41):
winners.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So it was a lot of fun yeah, it sounds like that
boat has a special place in yourheart, then, it does both of
them do um and uh, and thenseveral, uh, several other boats
.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I, I, I drove a, a 98 cubic inch class for dick black
, um, but it was called umphalus, which for my hippie friends
out there will will know my yogafriends and that that are out
there will know that that meansuh, meditation while gazing at
your navel, and uh, uh, and, andhe built, they built three of
them, um, uh, uh, there was,they were all 98s.
(16:14):
The 98 class was so much funbecause they were, you know, 14,
I think, long boats.
You know highly modifiedengines.
We ran a little, you know 98cubic inch four cylinder BMW.
And you know fuel injected onalcohol at record courses like
Green Lake and Black Lake andsome of those.
(16:36):
We could run nitromethane, wecould run nitrous oxide.
You could do just aboutanything to them, but they had
to be naturally aspirated.
You couldn't run a blower, itwas about the only thing that
you couldn't do with them.
And Jack Felpott had the redversion of it.
I drove the blue one and Jackalways seemed to win and several
(16:57):
different people had driventhat boat and a couple of them
had had crashed it.
Uh, trying to win.
Um, again, we went in May.
Just a couple of changes wentback out and and, and I started
winning and started beating Jackon a pretty regular basis.
And, um, and so, uh, one day,you know, jack comes to me and
he says, hey, would you want,would you do me a favor?
And I said, yeah, just aboutanything, jack, what would you
(17:18):
like to do?
And he said, let's trade boatsthis weekend.
Um, he says I used to beat, Iused to beat that, that blue
boat you know, on pretty regularbasis.
Um, and he said, and now Ican't beat you, Um, and he said
I said, okay, you know, I'mwilling to do that.
So we did that.
(17:41):
The first heat I won in the redboat and came back and Jack was
a little bit surprised and hesaid, well, obviously it's me,
you know, because now you beatme in both boats, me in both
boats, and so I don't rememberexactly what all changes had
been made.
But I told him, you know, theonly thing that I can feel, you
(18:07):
know, wrong with the red boat,that's different than the blue
boat, is there's a lot of playin the steering and I find
myself, you know, kind ofchasing myself, you know, going
down the straightaways with it.
And so we made a couple ofchanges in the steering system,
tighten things up a little bit.
And then, um, and so we made acouple of changes in the
steering system, um, tightenthings up a little bit, um, and
then I think both boats werewere fairly equal, um, I think
that, uh, you know, we, we, weeach won our share of races and
then, you know, turned into someof those, uh, you know,
(18:28):
unlimited type duels with thepay and pack Budweiser, whoever
got the inside was going to win,uh and uh, and so a lot of
times the race was really, youknow, during the five minute gun
and and and and, scoring up forthe start to see who could get
get the inside lane.
So, a lot of fun, a lot of fun.
And boy, I learned so much, youknow, racing against those
kinds of guys, and and, ofcourse, I was a lot younger and
(18:49):
and in those days and got torace against guys that had a lot
more experience and and and,honestly, a lot more skills than
me in those days, and it wasjust so much fun to just be part
of it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, well, I believe around that time in the 1970s
though, you got toprofessionally work for Ron
Jones yes, and you started tobuild boats with him, repair
boats.
Could you talk about thoseearly days and how you got that
job and just how many boats didyou build with Ron Jones?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Gosh, it was 1974.
It was the end of 1973 when Iended up going there and this
story is in the book.
I ended up being hired by RonJones.
I was living in Ohio at thetime.
My wife, Arlene, and I had justgotten married.
I say this as kind of a joke,but it was the honest to
(19:43):
goodness truth on a dare.
Basically, we had dated for twoyears.
We were 15 years old when we met, dated for a couple of years
and after two years, at abarbecue at Arlene's parents'
house on Memorial day weekend,we got pulled aside and the
(20:03):
conversation started out withJohn we really like you, Um, and
that usually, you know, meansthat, oh, you know, there's
about to be a problem here.
And, uh, we really like you,but, uh, we just think that you
guys are seeing way too much ofeach other and we and we'd like
to see other people do otherthings and do you know, you'll
be, be a little bit more, spendtime, you know, doing other
(20:25):
things.
You're, you're together all thetime.
Of course, Arlene and I feltthat we were, you know,
absolutely in love with eachother.
A match made in heaven, toldher parents whatever they wanted
to hear, I suppose, and thenwent off to do.
You know, continue to do what wewanted to do.
So later on, you know at theend of the summer, then at the
Labor Day picnic, got pulledaside again and said hey, you
know we had a conversation hereearlier and you know it turns
(20:49):
out that that you guys arespending more time together than
you were before.
And so here's the deal.
We think you're a bad influenceon Arlene.
And they had moved back to Ohiofrom California, southern
California.
Arlene's dad was in theaerospace industry and he was
doing civilian work for the AirForce there.
As I had mentioned, my dad wasin the Air Force earlier and he
(21:10):
joined up in Ohio, gottransferred to Fairchild Air
Force Base in Spokane where hemet my mom and I was born at
Fairchild Air Force Base, and sonow we're 2,400 miles away back
in Ohio.
There Arlene and I meet in highschool and now the deal is you
(21:34):
guys either have to get marriedor we're going to send Arlene
back to California to live withher aunt.
Honestly, I expected to getkicked to the curb at that point
.
Arlene loved the Californialifestyle.
She did not like it so much inOhio.
She loved her aunt Nancy therein California and I honestly
figured that that was probablygoing to be the end of John and
Arlene.
As it turned out it was not andwe elected to get married and
(22:03):
even in Ohio, with Arlene notbeing pregnant, even with
parents' consent, we couldn'tget married at that age.
My birthday's on January 27th.
We got married on February 21st, and so we've got an
anniversary coming up here in afew days.
But you know that that threeweek difference, where that's
how long I'd been 17 years old.
My 17th birthday was, you know,january 27th and so we ended up
(22:27):
, you know, getting married andI literally had been, you know,
17 years old for like threeweeks.
We we were married for 47 yearsuntil I lost Arlene here a few
years ago, unfortunately to asuicide, and actually, david
that's part of the reason that Istarted writing the book was to
bring attention to that kind ofbehavior and mental health
(22:50):
issues and suicide, and aportion of the proceeds from
this after the book does indeedmake any money is going to go,
with Scott Hanauer's help,chip's brother to helping
suicide prevention and helpingpeople with mental health issues
(23:12):
, and we've made so muchprogress since the loss of
Arlene.
I feel so badly and I'm goingto struggle to not have to have
tears in my eyes here as I stillmiss her and wish that there
was something that we could havedone and so many, so much stuff
that we know now that couldhave been applicable then.
(23:32):
So we got married.
I was doing repairs on on acouple of boats that were
crashed in Region 6.
Back there that were Ron Jonesboats.
I needed a drawing and I neededa little bit of help and I
called and asked us to talk withRon.
His shop was in Costa Mesa,california at the time, entitled
Ron Jones Marine Engineering,and we talked for a long time on
(23:58):
the phone.
He was just wonderful, waswilling to spend the time with
me, was very detail-oriented andgave me all the help that I
needed.
And somewhere along the line Idon't honestly remember if he
asked me or if he asked me if Iwas interested in coming to work
there or if I asked him, butsomehow we got on that subject
and I remember his answer wasyou cannot get here soon enough.
(24:21):
And so I went back.
We talked, arlene and I talkedabout it.
We packed up the belongings andthings that we had in a 6240
Conaline van towing, a 67 bigblock Mustang behind it with all
of our stuff in it and our twochildren at the time, big block
Mustang behind it with all ofour stuff in it and our two
children at the time, katrinaand McIver, were very young and
(24:46):
moved to Costa Mesa, california.
We built four Unlimiteds thatwinter.
It was Value Mart, lincoln,thrift, the Miss US and the
Country Boy that was for theWalters.
Um, they took, um, theyreceived it.
It was set up to be anautomotive powered boat.
Um, it was never ran and it wasa cab over automotive powered
boat.
It was never run in thatconfiguration.
(25:06):
Uh, bernie little ended upbuying it, uh, made a
conventional out of it and endedup being a Ms Budweiser, and so
I had the opportunity to do somany things there and learned so
much.
We were just getting into thehoneycomb aluminum boats in
those days.
All four of those boats werehoneycomb.
Of course, the 73 Pay Impactwas the first honeycomb boat and
(25:28):
that boat had just left theshop when I got there and the
U-95 was just leaving the shopas I got there.
And um, and the U 95 was justleaving the shop as as I got
there, and uh, we built severallimited class boats um that were
honeycomb aluminum a two 84, um, uh, al Curtis uh called the
gladiator.
Um, there was a honeycomb boatbut it also had what we were
(25:50):
calling a steerable strut on it.
It was like a stern drive, um,and uh, man, the thing was
awesome.
And and when, when it worked itwas unbeatable.
Um, the problem was that withthe stern drive, uh, couldn't
come up with you joints, um,that would hold up for the angle
of deflection and thehorsepower and the torque and
the different things and, and uh, and it broke more times than
(26:12):
than it finished, unfortunately,um and uh.
So, al, after a year or so offrustration, uh, seeing all the
potential that was there butjust not being able to utilize
it, uh, and really wanted torace the boat and be more
consistent with it, um, it gotconverted to a more conventional
, you know propeller shaft andum, uh, and that, um, we built a
, um, a honeycomb, seven literfor john leach, uh, the
(26:35):
buccaneer, two, a lot of woodboats, uh, were still still
being built in those days.
Some people that weren't realsure if this honeycomb thing was
going to work or not, andobviously it did quite well.
And so it was a big, bigexperience for me and so much
fun.
So many amazing people camethrough that shop Owners of
(26:56):
boats, drivers of boats.
I got the great opportunity towork with Ted Jones on a couple
of projects and so, yeah, justso much fun.
Man, it was cool.
Somebody needs to make a movieat this.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, that's one thing I never really stopped to
think about, like back in RonJones' shop his heyday, like
just so many unique charactersand just so many just big names
in the sport probably walkedthrough those doors and that's
awesome to hear.
You got a chance to work withthose names.
Oh man, yeah, yeah, that's big.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And we did a lot of things.
I mean every class of limitedinboards.
Yeah, we built an offshore boatfor Betty Cook, a huge, big
catamaran called Kudu.
It was a honeycomb boat as welland Ron was always on the
leading edge, cutting edge oftechnology, always trying to
(27:50):
make the boats better.
And unfortunately, I think thatwas part of his downfall is
that, you know, as the boats gotmore and more expensive, you
know people either didn't wantto afford or couldn't afford the
new technology and thedifferent things.
And a lot of times you know wedid.
You know boats that that Ronlost money on just so that he
could, you know, help a friendor or help and, and even the
(28:11):
ones that we didn't necessarilylose money on didn't make any
money on it and and so a lot oftimes you know, it was just a
real losing situationfinancially.
And Ron was a much betterfriend than he was, you know, a
businessman and I don't think heever told anybody no and there
was always so much pride in aRon Jones boat.
(28:37):
You know there were so manyextra steps that a lot of people
that were building boats in thedays didn't take.
I remember, you know, when inthe wood.
When I was building wood boats,you know you'd get the bottom
and everything all done, get allthe deck battens and everything
on, get it all fared in andbefore you know we put the deck
on it.
You know we'd sand and varnishand spray the last coat inside
(28:57):
and it looked like you knowfurniture inside there.
And then we take newspapers andlay newspapers down everywhere
so that the glue when it drippedoff the sides didn't stick on
the bottom of the boat.
And then you know you'd have togo back in later after the deck
was on, through the pie, highcovers and deck hatches and that
sort of thing, and pull all thenewspapers and stuff out.
And that way, if anybody everlooked in there for any reason,
(29:18):
it literally looked likefurniture, they were beautiful
and those things all cost moneyand of course Ron didn't charge
extra for any of that and so,like I say a lot of times, it
was a losing situation as far asthe bottom line is concerned.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Wow, wow.
Well, yeah, he was definitely aproponent for the sport and
wanted to see things succeed andit grow.
Yes, um but I know around thattime you were also crewing for
some teams and I heard a storyyou were crewing for red, the
red band team.
Yeah uh, the boat had somehandling issues and you got.
(29:54):
Did you get a chance to getinto the cockpit and test it to
kind of maneuver some of thosethings and figure out?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I did.
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I did, and that's another one of the points that
are in the book.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
In Guntersville that year McCormick and the guys had
taken the Walther boat that wasthe Country Boy, taken the
Merlin out of it and put aturbocharged Atlas in it and and
the boat was just a rocket ship.
And down the straightaways Ronhad it set up where it ran quite
a bit downhill.
(30:26):
It never got loose, it nevergot free and I went as a
consultant basically toGuntersville just to kind of
observe what was going on.
They wanted Ron to go and hewas just so busy at the shop he
couldn't go and I got the greatpleasure to be able to go and
would communicate with Ron everyevening on the telephone about,
you know what was going on Lotsof fog, lots of lots of weather
(30:49):
issues.
But it was a new ignitionsystem.
The boots, mallory was, wasinvolved with them on the
Mallory ignition stuff and a lotof problems with the
distributor caps and things thatwere, you know, moving around
and the thing would misfire anddrop a cylinder.
Two, hillborn was there andworking on the Hillborn, you
know, fuel injection stuff,trying to get things set up and
(31:10):
the weather was changing fasterthan they could change the pills
and you know, get the boat setup right and, as I remember
pills and, and you know, get theboat set up Right.
And, as I remember, um, we madeseveral runs over three days at
189 to 190 miles an hour on 11cylinders, you know, backed it
up both ways, both ways back andforth, and and uh, and never
could get, you know, to play onall 12 cylinders and uh, so left
(31:30):
there a little bit disappointedbut learned an awful lot about
uh, different things.
Uh got to Miami late, of course, and the boat was still set up
with the straightaway recordstuff, a very shallow skid fin,
a very shallow rudder set up togo in a straight line.
Jim wanted to get the boat inthe water against everybody's
(31:54):
better judgment.
You know, let's wait tilltomorrow, give us tonight to,
you know, get the boat turnedaround and and make things
better.
He decided, nope, let's justget it in the show and then
we'll make the changes.
And for those that are oldenough to remember, jim went
storming into the first turn inMiami there on that little race
course.
It unhooked the skid fin, spunaround and pitched him out and
(32:15):
when he got thrown out of theboat, his legs and feet and
things got tangled up underneaththe dash and things on the way
out ended up with something like300 stitches On top of that.
I don't know whether you know,and he didn't tell anybody.
He didn't expect that he wasever going to get hurt.
(32:35):
You know like that, but Jim wasa hemophiliac.
Once he started bleeding theycouldn't stop the bleeding and
he darned their blood to deathbefore they could get him to the
hospital.
Stitches in his legs to get himput back together and of course
(32:56):
, he ended up, um, still wantingto drive but had to go through
a long healing process.
And so we had several differentdrivers in the boat at different
times and and uh, uh, and therewas some pretty substantial uh
damage that was going to happento the boat later on when, uh,
when Skip Walther was asked todrive the boat, that was another
confusing situation andcontroversial.
A lot of people didn't thinkthat Skip had the qualifications
(33:17):
and the experience to drive theboat.
His brother, Salt, being one ofthe biggest proponents,
absolutely don't put him in theboat and Salt didn't want to
drive it himself.
David didn't want to drive ithimself, but Skip had some
experience in some five litersand and for, for whatever reason
I I didn't have any any part of.
(33:38):
I really wasn't part of theteam and really didn't have any
influence in in who was going todrive it.
I was just there as an observerand and Skip ended up in the
boat and and I honestly I don'tthink any fault of Skip Poulter,
I firmly believe that he had amanatee and it ripped the
transom out of the boat.
That thing was built like a tankand I mean it ripped half inch
(34:02):
thick aluminum angles that werein the corner of the rudder
brackets, you know, ripped thatstuff completely out of the
transom.
The engine stringers were two,three quarter inch nine ply
plywood, you know, bondedtogether with aluminum skin on
the inside of that for theengine compartment and all Tore
that apart like a phone book.
And when all that stuff cameoff, when the rudder and
(34:25):
everything came off, of coursethe engine was still running the
boat went into a big flat, spinleft-hand spin, pitch, skip out
.
Unfortunately, when he rolledoff the deck he got hit by the
boat and did not survive.
So the boat was in very badshape.
The team was in even worseshape.
Off to Costa Mesa, california.
(34:46):
They go with the boat, as itturns out, several other boats,
the four new boats that we hadbuilt that winter boats um the
four, the four new boats that wehad built that winter um, all
had um roller bearings, uh, andball bearings in the rudder
brackets, uh, rather than justthe standard bushings that
everyone else had been trying torun and run in an effort to try
and get the boats to turneasier, uh, make all that stuff
(35:07):
work a little bit better.
Um, it was a good idea intheory.
Uh, unfortunately, thesaltwater and those bell
bearings and things didn't workwell together and they would try
to rust and seize up and causeproblems.
And I mean in minutes you couldwatch the things rust in the
saltwater environment there, andthey just weren't sealed up
(35:28):
well enough to be able to dothat.
Unfortunately, there were acouple of other mishaps the
Value Mart ended up spinning outand Ron Armstrong that was
driving it got pitched out of it.
And the Lincoln Thrift and theMiss US had some, some rudder
issues and problems and we'reactually there was some
consideration about, you know,those boats not being and
(35:52):
actually I'm getting way aheadof myself here- but it was
actually some legal issues withthat, and I don't even remember
if it was unlimited unanimous orwhat the unlimited class was
calling themselves in those daysthat those boats were going to
be banned at the next race, andthat was in 1974.
So, this was the beginning ofthe of the season there and of
(36:20):
the 75, it was a 75 season.
No, it was 74.
74.
Yeah, 74.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
And so the boat ended up coming back to Costa Mesa
and that was kind of my project.
I'd been, I'd been with withthe team and and I work on the
boat and and that was my projectwas was, uh, you know, do the
repairs and get that thing putback together as um, as legal
issues came about and Paul Cook,betty Cook's husband, was kind
(36:52):
of a silent partner with Ron anda lot of the money was was, you
know, that are through the Cookfamily and Paul Cook's lawyer
said you know, I believe there'sgoing to be some lawsuits over
this and you know there was evena fatality and even though you
know that rudder didn't come offthe boat because of anything
that that you know Ron did orany kind of, you know that
rudder didn't come off the boatbecause of anything that that
(37:13):
you know Ron did or any kind ofyou know not designed properly
or not maintained properly.
In my mind there's no questionthat it hit something, but still
it was considered a rudderfailure and with other boats you
know having rudder failures andpotentially not being able to
run the next weekend inWashington DC, there was a lot
(37:34):
of issues and a lot of questionsand the rumors had gotten
around that you know, if thisends up in court, mr Cook is
going to be your money thatthey're going to be taking, and
so so Paul Cook and Ron Jones,kind of separated, went
different directions.
Unfortunately, ron wasn't in aposition to be able to take care
of that stuff on his own, andevery day there were fewer and
(37:56):
fewer people at the shop.
As a project would get done, um, the boat would leave, and some
of the people that were workingon it, you know, were leaving
too.
When I first went there, therewere probably 25 to 30 people,
uh, working at Ron Jones MarineEngineering.
Wow, by the time we got theboat done, the other boats were
(38:19):
done first the Lincoln Thriftleft, first the Miss US left the
value mark.
All those boats came back.
We're there for just, you know,basically inspections.
But the only one that reallyneeded an awful lot of work, um,
was the boat I was working onwas a red man.
Um, by the time we got thatthing done and ready to go to
(38:41):
the next race, which we werehoping was going to be tri
cities, that didn't.
It didn't get done in time, andand and.
So they ended up joining thefleet in Seattle.
Um, by that point in time, um,there were three of us left.
Um, it was.
It was Ron Jones Jr, actually,so four probably.
Jr was still there, but he wasa 13, 14-year-old kid sweeping
(39:01):
the floor working for mom anddad, that sort of thing.
Jim Metzner was still theredoing the paintwork, bob.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I'll think of his last name here in a bit.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I was there doing doing woodworking, and, and
myself, and, as the story willgo in in the book here, when we
got ready to pack up the truckthe paint was drying and packing
up the truck, um, to get readyto go to Seattle the red man
team offered me a job, um, and Iwas excited about that.
(39:40):
You know I had, I hadvolunteered on several other, uh
, you know, unlimited teams atdifferent times, but this was an
honest to goodness paying job,um, you know to to be a crew
member, a professional crewmember, on an unlimited
hydroplane.
Um, and that's what I went totalk with Ron about it, um and
um.
I'll never forget you know thesmile on his face as, as he put
his arm around me and he says,john, I know, you know, we've
(40:01):
been talking about this forweeks, uh, you know.
And um, and he said, honestly,I don't have anything to offer
you.
Um, and he says I don't knowfor sure if I'm even going to
have a job once that thingleaves.
I think you should take it.
So I went home, chatted withArlene about it.
We had, you know, we're livingin an apartment in Costa Mesa.
(40:21):
There we had a first month andlast month deposit on the thing
and I just paid the rent anddecided let's go to a couple of
boat races and decide if this issomething I really want to do.
So so we came to, uh, seattle,went to seattle um and um and
ran the seafair race there um1974.
As I remember there were 14 or15 races we ran there was a good
(40:44):
amount of races back then.
Seattle yeah, we ran in seattleum, then went back, uh, madison
had been blown out from atornado kind of thing, and so we
ran in Madison in October.
It was cold.
I remember it was so cold thatwe ended up having to build a
gasoline primer system to beable to start the engines on
gasoline because we couldn't getthem to start on the methanol.
(41:07):
So we ran Phoenix, arizona, sanDiego, jacksonville, florida,
and then I think the last onewas in Madison that year, and so
(41:27):
, yeah, I ended up moving backto Owensboro, kentucky, to be
part of the Redman team.
It was a good learningexperience.
I got to do an awful lot ofthings.
Your original question was wayback when did I get to go for a
ride in the boat?
And, yes, I did.
And again, this story's in thebook.
It was one of the happiest butmost embarrassing moments in my
(41:49):
life actually and Jerry Bangswas driving the boat.
Some weekends Jim McCormick wasgetting to the point where he
wanted to drive the boat.
Still, tom Sheehy drove it inSeattle.
And none of these guys were thesame size.
Jerry was quite a bit shorter.
Jim McCormick was tall, thin,and so every time somebody else
(42:13):
wanted to drive the boat and itseemed like that's all we did
all weekend long was just movethe seat and the pedals to where
people could drive the boat.
Finally, in San Diego, where I'munderneath holding the wrenches
and things to move the seat,with somebody else inside I
don't remember, it was one of us, probably where it was being
(42:35):
sarcastic and kind of smart,alecky and um, uh, where
somebody said something aboutyou're moving the seats and the
pedals.
How many times do you thinkwe've done this this year?
And uh, I said you know, Idon't know for sure, but I'm
getting really tired of it.
You know, this guy drives theboat, that guy drives the boat
and I think I could go out thereand drive it as good as either
of those two are.
And I'm not realizing that.
Jim McCormick was standingbehind me as I'm running my jaw
(42:58):
here and he said well, hey,young man, that may not be a bad
idea, why don't you put thestuff in there, to where you can
reach the pedals?
And so you know, bless hisheart, I got to go for a ride in
the boat, and that was my firsttime in an unlimited hydroplane
.
What an eye-opening experience.
Like I say, that thing was arocket ship down the
(43:19):
straightaways.
It had run 180, 185 miles anhour even in those days, but
really struggled to get throughthe turns.
And so by the time we got toMadison which I say was in
October, it was cold I reallyfelt that we could make some
changes in the boat, free thething up a little bit.
You know, we'd probably knock10 or 12 miles an hour off the
(43:39):
top end, but if we could get itin and out of the turns quicker,
the thing could.
Just so much potential.
And so I wanted to deepen thesponsons a half an inch, and
Larry Crisp was the crew chiefat the time and Jim McCormick,
and, as we're talking about this, somehow it got to.
Well, if a half an inch isbetter an inch, if a half an
(44:00):
inch is good, an inch would bebetter.
And I'm saying no, no, no, no.
You know, I think that's toomuch.
Let's, let's not, let's not gooverboard here.
Let's, let's.
You know, I'd rather be notenough and have to add more
later.
Let's, let's, you know, I'drather be not enough and you'd
have to add more later.
And so I got outvoted on thatand we ended up putting in a one
inch shim under all the battensand deepening the sponsons an
inch.
And I remember the boat comingunder the the bridge.
(44:22):
It was coming into the wind,you know, it was probably 40
degrees or something.
Outside it was cold, so the airwas really dense and making
lots of lift.
And Jim, the boat had alwaysbeen so settled and never
overreacted.
And when Jim got to thestart-finish line there, jim
McCormick, driving it, ran overhis own wake from leaving the
(44:44):
pits, the thing you know.
It rattled off the sponsons andstuck its nose in the air and
just dangled there for a secondand Jim gathered the thing in,
cut across the infield and cameback and said get those things
out of there.
And I said, well, can we justtake half of them off?
Nope, nope, nope, let's takethem all out of there.
So we never really got theopportunity.
I firmly believe still to thisday.
If we were to deepen thesponsors a half an inch kind of
(45:06):
split, the difference there, itwould have got in and out of the
turn so much better,accelerated off the turn so much
better.
We would have given up some topend, but I gladly give up some
top end to get it in and out ofthe turns better.
So never got the opportunity todo that and unfortunately I
went from bad to worse.
There weren't many cab overboatsrunning in those days, jim
(45:29):
McCormick being old school andmost of his friends and the
people around there, you knowbeing old school and most of his
friends and the people aroundthere, you know being old school
.
With the end of the season, um,jim said hey, you know I've
been talking with, uh, you knowdifferent people and and you
know brilliant people and peoplethat are are on my hero list.
While bill cantrell, um, youknow some of the people you know
in in detroit at the gale shop,um, you know, said you know we
(45:52):
need to make a conventional outof this.
People you know in Detroit atthe Gale shop, you know, said
you know we need to make aconventional out of this thing.
And you know, put the driverwhere he belongs behind the
engine there.
And it literally brought tearsto my eyes to take this
absolutely beautiful you know,ron Jones configuration that I
knew there was so much untappedpotential there and to take what
I thought was a giant stepbackwards to turn the thing into
(46:14):
a conventional.
At that point in time we weregetting to the point where there
wasn't an awful lot going on atthe shop.
I was there by myself quite abit.
Jim and Bonnie McCormick werebuilding a new house and for a
long time it seemed like a longtime I ended up working at the
(46:38):
McCormick's house buildingcabinets, kitchen cabinets and
things, and not really sure whatwas going to happen there.
And then Jim said let's makethat boat a conventional.
And I said okay, I will do that.
But what happens then?
And he said well, we got lotsof things to do here.
We've got the sheet metal shop,you can do that there.
You know what happens then andhe said well, you know, we got
lots of things to do here.
You know we've got the sheetmetal shop.
You know you can do that,there's lots of things.
And I said you know, sorry, butthat's not what I want to do my
(47:01):
dad's in the heating, airconditioning and ventilation and
electronic electrical business.
I can work with my dad.
You know, jim, if I wanted todo that.
I want to race boats.
And so my agreement was that Iwould stay until the boat was
ready to go in the water and didall the work, basically by
myself, to, you know, turn thatbeautiful boat into a
conventional, which wasn't theright thing to do.
(47:25):
And, as history you know, ifyou go back and take a look at
it, you'll see that that boateventually did, you know, become
a cab over again and was never.
By that point in time all thegood stuff had been taken out of
it and it really was neverallowed to be what it could have
been.
But the other thing thathappened around that time that
made it very difficult on my endwas that another person on my
(47:51):
hero list, david Herrensberger,had called Jim McCormick and
asked him to drive the PayImpact in 1975.
And at that point Jim knew hewas going to go boat racing and
you know, probably the finestboat you know that you know was
out there, the defendingnational champion, the defending
(48:14):
national champion, gold cupwinner, all that sort of thing.
And, and so Jim really had nointerest in promoting his race
team or doing anything with it.
So at that point in time, Ihonestly thought that I was
going back to California to goback to work with Ron Jones, and
was on the way back toCalifornia to do that.
(48:34):
When we left Owensboro, myparents were living in Las Vegas
with my grandparents on mymom's side of the family and
managed some apartments therethat they owned, and so we
stopped there to visit myparents.
One thing led to another.
Ron wasn't really sure what wasgoing to happen, what was going
(48:55):
to go on.
He, unfortunately, had closeddown the shop, became good
friends with Bob Fendler, whohad a shop in Phoenix, arizona,
with the Lincoln Thrift stuff.
All of Ron's stuff, includingmy tools, got moved to Arizona
to be stored there.
Unfortunately, bob Fendler andthe Lincoln Thrift Company got
(49:19):
in some financial issues andwere being investigated, and so
everything was was on hold.
All the tools and everythingthat were there were confiscated
and trying to decide if theywere Bob Fendler's or who owned
the stuff.
And so, anyway, in the meantime, my dad had a I think it was a
(49:46):
40-foot vintage Chris Craft thathe was restoring.
That was out at Lake Mead and westopped into the Lake Mead
Marine Supp Marine supply, um topick up some parts and pieces
for that.
I was wearing a, uh, a boatracing t-shirt and hat of some
sort, and and uh started aconversation with uh, with a kid
that was a son of the guy thatowned the Marina there, um, who
(50:08):
was putting together, uh, a dragboat, a drag hydro, um, and uh,
one thing led to and I gotoffered a job at Las Vegas
Marine Supply, which I ended uptaking, and so we stayed in
Vegas for a while there andbefore I got the opportunity to
get back involved in with theUnlimiteds again.
So I answered a lot ofquestions there, but I don't
(50:29):
know if I answered the one youasked of me.
So, yes, indeed, I did get theopportunity to go for a ride in
the.
Redman in San Diego, and thatwas my first time.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, all right.
All right.
Well, quite the firstexperience you had there driving
an Unlimited, it was yeah.
Well, that's all the time wehave for this week.
If you're like me, that episodewent way too quick and you're
ready to hear more from Johnabout his illustrious career in
unlimited hydroplane racing,don't worry because I got you.
(50:59):
Next week we'll have part twoand continue the talk with John
and he'll explain more about hisyears with Atlas of Airlines
Racing, muncie Racing, workingwith Jim Lucero and moving on to
driving his own unlimitedhydroplane for David
Herrensberger and the Pain PackRacing Team.
Really loved hearing all of hisstories.
(51:19):
I can't wait to share more ofthem with you.
But one thing I'm more excitedabout is for John's book to be
released.
But he's got some great storiesto share and he's going to talk
more about his book in the nextupcoming episodes.
But I can't wait to purchaseone for myself and read his book
, because I know he wasn'tsharing everything in this
(51:39):
interview, which he shared a tonof information about his past,
but I know he's got some moregreat stories that I won't want
to put the book down.
We'll just say that In themeantime, don't forget to check
us out on social media.
We're on Facebook, instagram.
Don't forget to check us out onsocial media.
We're on facebook, instagramand you can check us out online
at ruchetailtalkcom.
Don't forget.
(52:00):
There is on that website a linkfor ruchetail talk plus, a
subscription-based service whereyou get early access to all new
episodes and as well as somefun surprises on the website, as
I've been adding on picturesfrom previous Hydroplane Racing
years, some fun articles, andI'm going to continue to build
my database and archives on myRoostertail Talk Plus
(52:23):
subscription.
It's kind of pay-as-you-go andchoose-your-own-plan anywhere
from $3 to $10 a month, but somegreat fun features.
Anywhere from $3 to $10 a month, but some great fun features
and all of that money comes backto support the show and really
cover all those hidden coststhat come along with a podcast.
As you know, I'm a teacher andthis podcast comes out of my
(52:44):
pocket, so over the years someexpenses have piled up, but I
continue to do this for my loveand passion for the sport of
hydroplane racing, because thesport has given so much to me in
my life over the years.
I'm hoping I'm giving my partback.
That's all we have for thisweek, though, so until next time
I hope to see you at the race.
Rooster Tail Talk, the podcast dedicated to
everything about the sport thatwe all love.
Hi, dr Plain Reese.
I am your host, david Newton,and it's time once again.
So sit back, relax and welcometo Rooster Tail Talk.
Dale Topp.
(00:49):
Hello race fans, welcome backto the show.
We're on to episode 140.
And, joining for this episodeand the next few, I'm talking
with John Walters.
Now John Walters is a legend ofthe sport and many people know
his background from hispain-packed days because he made
(01:10):
a name for himself in the sportdriving one of the first
turbine-powered unlimitedhydroplanes.
But he got the first victoryfor a turbine unlimited
hydroplane back in the early 80sover 40 years ago, which seems
like a lifetime ago.
But he has been hard at worksince then and long before that
time around the sport ofhydroplanes and really has given
(01:33):
a lot to the sport andpropelled a lot of things for
the further advancement andfinding more speed in the boats.
He's built many boats over theyears and I think you're going
to learn a lot about John if youdon't know him that well, how
much of a passion he has forhydroplane racing but how much
he has given back to the sport.
Now, when I talk to people thataren't familiar with hydroplane
(01:57):
racing.
I think some have a stereotypethat it's kind of a backyard
build a boat and there's not alot of smarts required in the
sport, as it's not a.
It's a high, highly paid gig.
It's not well financed and it'snot as pristine to some as some
(02:19):
would say, like formula oneracing is.
But it takes a lot of smarts todo what these people do in
building the boats, driving theboats, working on them, and John
Walters exemplifies theintellect needed to do well in
the sport and he is such a smartman and he's like.
You're going to come away withsome great behind the scenes
(02:40):
stories from John.
I really love talking with him.
It's been a highly requestedinterview for some time and just
hasn't happened yet.
But I'm really excited to getthis out and share this
interview with you because Icould just sit here and probably
listen to him talk for hours onend.
He's got so many great insightto the sport of racing, but if I
(03:02):
can only hone some of hisknowledge in the sport, it's
just so fascinating to hear himtalk about all the different
aspects of the sport.
I'm not going to bore you muchmore with his background,
because we're going to talkabout his background into
hydroplane racing In the earlyyears for him, before he was an
unlimited driver.
He raced for many yearsstarting outboards and inboards,
(03:24):
and you're going to hear moreabout his backgrounds and how he
started to work for somedifferent hydroplane racing
teams, as well as Ron Jones.
So let's get into thatinterview and listen to part one
of my chat with John Walters.
Well, I'm sitting down here inmy boat room, my office, for
Rooster Tail Talk and I'mtalking via Zoom with John
(03:45):
Walters.
John, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
You know I'm pretty okay, david I.
You know I'm a little bitsnowbound here.
We got a bunch more snowyesterday and I spent a fair
amount of time pushing some ofit around with the snowplow.
But you know it's it's nothorribly cold, it's beautiful
and and I and I get and Ibeautiful and I'm just good, I'm
just okay.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, yeah, all right .
Well, glad to have you on hereand hopefully the snow will
subside for you.
Over on my side of themountains, the snow has stopped
and we're above 40 degrees now,so it's almost summertime in
Seattle.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
There you go.
We were between 5 and 8 belowzero most of the days last week,
so it was really cold and I'min a very remote area,
surrounded on three sides by theOkanagan National Forest, on
top of Cocoa Mountain at about4,000 feet in elevation.
So spring comes late here andfall comes early, comes early,
(04:46):
um, but uh, um, you know Ipretty much like all the seasons
and um, and pretty wellprepared to deal with, um, you
know, just about anything thatmother nature can throw at me,
and I'm not asking you that asas as you know any kind of a
threat or uh.
You know any kind of a, uh, I'llshow you.
So, yeah, yeah all right.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Well, I'm excited to have you on here and I know
diehard hydropine fans know yourname and know your
contributions you've given tothe sport over the many years.
But not everyone knows howthings began for the drivers,
crew members and people aroundthe sport.
For you, where did things beginin hydroplane racing for John
Walters?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
You know, being born and raised in the Seattle area,
I did spend some time back inOhio after a while, but, being
born and raised in the Spokanearea and then later in the
Seattle area, I was exposed to alot of different kinds of boat
racing.
A lot of outboards at differentplaces, here and there, stock
(05:42):
outboards which piqued myinterest.
A lot of outboards at differentdifferent places, here and
there stock outboards whichpiqued my interest.
But, um, the the, the eventthat stole my heart was the
diamond cup in Lake Coeurd'Alene, and, and I want to say
it was 1963.
Uh, it was either 1962 or 1963.
I was nine years old, um, anduh, just absolutely crazy over
(06:04):
the boats.
Mean, everything that I saw, um, you know, made me want to be
part of this sport and, in thissport, to be part of my life.
Um, I, um, uh, I hear the storyquite often.
Unfortunately, I lost my dadabout a year ago, um, and he was
a big part of of my life and myboat racing career, of course.
(06:24):
And, um, you know, I I told myparents on the way home, uh, in
the backseat of the car, at nineyears old.
Geez, when I grow up, that'swhat I want to do, and I'm sure
that every little nine year,nine and 10 year old boy in the
pits that day said the samething Um, but I meant it.
And um I.
I went to school with the intentof learning the things that
(06:46):
could help me to race boats whenI got older.
And so I was always interestedin the science and the
engineering classes and the mathclasses and the things that
could help me with that.
I took every shop class I could, whether it was metal or
woodworking or all of those sortof things, again, you know,
hoping that I would be able to,you know, apply those skills
(07:06):
later in my soon to come, youknow, boat racing career.
And so, you know, by the time Iwas 10 years old, I was hooked
to the point that, you know.
I told my dad I really wantedto do this and, you know, was
familiar with the JSTOC class atthat point and my dad made me
an offer and said all right, youcome up with the money and I'll
(07:27):
match whatever, whatever youcome up with, and we'll go buy
some equipment.
I found a, an AB class Swifthydro at a secondhand store in
Burien, washington, and it washad been there for some time.
I told the guy my story, what Iwanted to do.
I started, you know, washingdogs and washing cars and
returning pop bottles andwhatever I it had been there for
some time.
I told the guy my story, what Iwanted to do.
(07:48):
I started washing dogs andwashing cars and returning pop
bottles and whatever I could doto make some money.
And I started making paymentson the thing.
My dad, when I got to half ofit, my dad went in and paid for
the other half and we broughthome a Swift Hydro that we put a
J-stock engine on and the dealwas dad said you know, you got
to play with this thing, butwe'll go to the lake every
(08:08):
weekend.
We'll get a bunch of time on it.
I really want you to befamiliar with it before before
we enter the first race.
And so so we did that and and Igot the opportunity to to run J
stock later on A and B stock.
By that point in time mygrandparents, who live back in
the Ohio area, were gettingpretty old and having a
(08:29):
difficult time keeping up withtheir business and, just you
know, life in general, and so wewould go back there to visit
with my dad's parents help themwith things.
And it seemed like every yearwe went back, we stayed a little
longer till eventually we endedup moving back there for a
short period of time.
And in Region 6, it was alittle more difficult.
In Region 10 here, apba, aseverybody knows, divides up into
(08:53):
regions Region 10 in Washingtonand Oregon, idaho, part of
California there were racesevery weekend, you know very
close, and we could go run justabout anytime we wanted to.
Um in region six, um, there wereraces in pennsylvania or maybe
west virginia or kentucky orwhatever, and sometimes it was
an eight or ten hour drive.
You know each direction to getthere.
(09:13):
So, um, so I was a little bitlimited in in the number of
races that I could run, uh,there, but my dad, being my dad,
um was very supportive and, andyou know, did whatever we could
do and ran as many as we could.
So that's where it all startedand you know, just a whole lot
of things obviously happenedbetween here and there, as I had
mentioned to you earlier.
(09:34):
I'm trying not to let you knowtoo many secrets out here.
I've been working on writingthis book for about almost eight
years now, which I think isliterally weeks away from going
to the printer, and all of thesestories and I'm sure everything
that you and I are going totalk about today, are in the
book in far more detail.
(09:54):
So hopefully it'll be out soonand it's going to be.
Rusty Ray, a dear friend andphotojournalist, is helping me
with it.
It's been really fun workingwith Rusty again.
Rusty was the PR director forPay and Pack in the days that I
was driving the boat there.
So a lot of these you knowstories and a lot of these
experiences we did together andit was, it's been very
(10:17):
interesting to you know, to goback and reminisce with with
some of that stuff, but it'll betitled racing through time a
lot of time with John and ArleneWalter.
So, um, I, um, um, I'm realanxious to get it out there and
and uh, and let everybody youknow hear this story.
I think there's a an awful lotof things in the book that
people are going to be veryinterested in.
(10:37):
There's a lot of behind thescenes stuff and a lot of stuff
that, um, that that people don'tknow about conversations that
took place and why we didcertain things and why we didn't
do other things.
So there you go, it'll be fun.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Well, I'm looking forward to that and hopefully
your stories today can be atease for your book and not just
give everything away.
And I'll keep asking questions,but you can stop yourself when
you deem fit.
But when should we expect thisbook to be released for public?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Well, I'm hoping that , with you know, as long as it
takes to get it printed, rusty'sabout ready.
I think we've finally got allthe details worked out and
everything sorted out.
We had a few problems here andthere.
Some of the just about everyimage and there's like 300
pictures in the book they allgot scanned in the wrong format
(11:29):
and so the printers couldn't dowhat we wanted to do there
without, you know, re-scanningall the photos.
So Rusty, bless his heart, hasbeen, you know, going through
redoing all of the images.
I think we've finally gottenall of the copyright stuff done
and all of the thank yous to theother photojournalists and
people that we've borrowedphotographs and things and
stories and things from, and soI'm hoping that within the next
(11:50):
14 days or so it's going to beoff to the printers and then, as
quickly as they can get it done, I can start promoting it and
do some advanced sales andactually turn it into a book,
and I'm pretty excited about itand pretty nervous at the same
time.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, that's a big deal, and I love to hear that
you're giving some backgroundinformation that the general
fans may not have access to andthat's part of my podcast, too
is there's so many great storiesout there that need to be
preserved and shared, so I'dlove to hear that.
But getting back to yourdriving days and I heard what
you did you start with J stock.
(12:28):
You started.
I know you started in outboardracings, but was J stock your
first time?
I did start with J stock.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
I ran, yeah ran J stock for a while and then and
then A stock outboard.
Um, I probably spent most timein in a B stock outboards.
I ended up driving uh otherboats for other people at
different times in differentclasses, here and there, and was
always looking to try and addto the experience.
And every time I drove adifferent boat I learned
something.
Sometimes it was things Ididn't you know, I'd never
(12:54):
thought about, and sometimes itwas things I didn't want to know
.
But but, but it was still thatthat experience and and my, my
career all the way through thelimited inboards in that too was
that same sort of same sort ofsituation.
(13:14):
I started repairing a lot ofboats for people that were
crashed or broken or hadhandling problems.
A lot of the boats that I droveand later got to be very
successful in some of thoseboats were boats that other guys
didn't want to drive.
I drove boats that people gotthrown out of different, you
know, thrown out of, you know,different times, different
drivers at different times, fordifferent reasons.
And you know we'd get the callevery now and again that, hey,
you know, I've got this boathere that's got some handling
(13:35):
issues.
Would you mind taking a look,or maybe going for a ride, and
you know several of those werefun projects to be able to go
through and sort out what theissues were, make some changes,
see some success there and DaleVan Waringen's five-liter Just
Curious was one of those.
When that boat came out the veryfirst race, tim Johnson that
(13:56):
owned it when it was new gotthrown out of the thing and span
away.
They made a few changes in itand in the next race he got
pitched out of it again and itgot to be a boat that was, it
was very fast, but uh, but hadsome handling issues and and uh,
when dale bought it, uh, weended up, uh, making some
several changes and it changedthe steering in it to, um, you
(14:16):
know, cable steering and got ridof some of the uh, the
highman's and and the push pulltubes and things that were there
.
Those things kind of wear outover time, time and you get a
little bit of slop and someslack in the things and the
sponsons.
You know Ron Jones was doingsome different things with the
sponsons at that point in timeand so I went back to what I
knew worked and we tore thesponsons off of that boat, put
(14:38):
it all back together, ran it acouple of years as a five-liter
and I don't think I ever lost arace in it.
Years as a five liter and Idon't think I ever lost a race
in it.
Uh, mike jones's uh boat, thethe buccaneer, that he got from
john leach, that thing was arocket ship when uh 280, when,
when he first got it and overthe years different people had
made some changes in it.
Uh, some things had worn out,some things.
You know the technology hadgotten better but didn't get
(14:58):
changed, and the same sort ofthing.
Um, you know, I made a fewchanges in that boat.
We went out and enjoyed, youknow, just an extreme amount of
success with Mike Jones in thatboat, easy Racer, and again, I
don't think I ever lost a racein it.
By that point in time I wasstarting to, you know, drive
some unlimited stuff and couldonly, you know, compete here and
there at races.
(15:18):
But, man, it was fun.
I remember in those days, youknow, going to, uh, you know,
different races and especiallyin the two 80 class, and there'd
be 20 or 22 boats show up andthere'd be, you know, five
elimination heats, you know, andand, uh, you know, it was just
crazy and so much fun and, um,and I think that was, you know,
some of the.
The most fun for me was wastaking boats that, um, that
hadn't enjoyed very much successand and turning them into into
(15:41):
winners.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So it was a lot of fun yeah, it sounds like that
boat has a special place in yourheart, then, it does both of
them do um and uh, and thenseveral, uh, several other boats
.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I, I, I drove a, a 98 cubic inch class for dick black
, um, but it was called umphalus, which for my hippie friends
out there will will know my yogafriends and that that are out
there will know that that meansuh, meditation while gazing at
your navel, and uh, uh, and, andhe built, they built three of
them, um, uh, uh, there was,they were all 98s.
(16:14):
The 98 class was so much funbecause they were, you know, 14,
I think, long boats.
You know highly modifiedengines.
We ran a little, you know 98cubic inch four cylinder BMW.
And you know fuel injected onalcohol at record courses like
Green Lake and Black Lake andsome of those.
(16:36):
We could run nitromethane, wecould run nitrous oxide.
You could do just aboutanything to them, but they had
to be naturally aspirated.
You couldn't run a blower, itwas about the only thing that
you couldn't do with them.
And Jack Felpott had the redversion of it.
I drove the blue one and Jackalways seemed to win and several
(16:57):
different people had driventhat boat and a couple of them
had had crashed it.
Uh, trying to win.
Um, again, we went in May.
Just a couple of changes wentback out and and, and I started
winning and started beating Jackon a pretty regular basis.
And, um, and so, uh, one day,you know, jack comes to me and
he says, hey, would you want,would you do me a favor?
And I said, yeah, just aboutanything, jack, what would you
(17:18):
like to do?
And he said, let's trade boatsthis weekend.
Um, he says I used to beat, Iused to beat that, that blue
boat you know, on pretty regularbasis.
Um, and he said, and now Ican't beat you, Um, and he said
I said, okay, you know, I'mwilling to do that.
So we did that.
(17:41):
The first heat I won in the redboat and came back and Jack was
a little bit surprised and hesaid, well, obviously it's me,
you know, because now you beatme in both boats, me in both
boats, and so I don't rememberexactly what all changes had
been made.
But I told him, you know, theonly thing that I can feel, you
(18:07):
know, wrong with the red boat,that's different than the blue
boat, is there's a lot of playin the steering and I find
myself, you know, kind ofchasing myself, you know, going
down the straightaways with it.
And so we made a couple ofchanges in the steering system,
tighten things up a little bit.
And then, um, and so we made acouple of changes in the
steering system, um, tightenthings up a little bit, um, and
then I think both boats werewere fairly equal, um, I think
that, uh, you know, we, we, weeach won our share of races and
then, you know, turned into someof those, uh, you know,
(18:28):
unlimited type duels with thepay and pack Budweiser, whoever
got the inside was going to win,uh and uh, and so a lot of
times the race was really, youknow, during the five minute gun
and and and and, scoring up forthe start to see who could get
get the inside lane.
So, a lot of fun, a lot of fun.
And boy, I learned so much, youknow, racing against those
kinds of guys, and and, ofcourse, I was a lot younger and
(18:49):
and in those days and got torace against guys that had a lot
more experience and and and,honestly, a lot more skills than
me in those days, and it wasjust so much fun to just be part
of it.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, well, I believe around that time in the 1970s
though, you got toprofessionally work for Ron
Jones yes, and you started tobuild boats with him, repair
boats.
Could you talk about thoseearly days and how you got that
job and just how many boats didyou build with Ron Jones?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Gosh, it was 1974.
It was the end of 1973 when Iended up going there and this
story is in the book.
I ended up being hired by RonJones.
I was living in Ohio at thetime.
My wife, Arlene, and I had justgotten married.
I say this as kind of a joke,but it was the honest to
(19:43):
goodness truth on a dare.
Basically, we had dated for twoyears.
We were 15 years old when we met, dated for a couple of years
and after two years, at abarbecue at Arlene's parents'
house on Memorial day weekend,we got pulled aside and the
(20:03):
conversation started out withJohn we really like you, Um, and
that usually, you know, meansthat, oh, you know, there's
about to be a problem here.
And, uh, we really like you,but, uh, we just think that you
guys are seeing way too much ofeach other and we and we'd like
to see other people do otherthings and do you know, you'll
be, be a little bit more, spendtime, you know, doing other
(20:25):
things.
You're, you're together all thetime.
Of course, Arlene and I feltthat we were, you know,
absolutely in love with eachother.
A match made in heaven, toldher parents whatever they wanted
to hear, I suppose, and thenwent off to do.
You know, continue to do what wewanted to do.
So later on, you know at theend of the summer, then at the
Labor Day picnic, got pulledaside again and said hey, you
know we had a conversation hereearlier and you know it turns
(20:49):
out that that you guys arespending more time together than
you were before.
And so here's the deal.
We think you're a bad influenceon Arlene.
And they had moved back to Ohiofrom California, southern
California.
Arlene's dad was in theaerospace industry and he was
doing civilian work for the AirForce there.
As I had mentioned, my dad wasin the Air Force earlier and he
(21:10):
joined up in Ohio, gottransferred to Fairchild Air
Force Base in Spokane where hemet my mom and I was born at
Fairchild Air Force Base, and sonow we're 2,400 miles away back
in Ohio.
There Arlene and I meet in highschool and now the deal is you
(21:34):
guys either have to get marriedor we're going to send Arlene
back to California to live withher aunt.
Honestly, I expected to getkicked to the curb at that point
.
Arlene loved the Californialifestyle.
She did not like it so much inOhio.
She loved her aunt Nancy therein California and I honestly
figured that that was probablygoing to be the end of John and
Arlene.
As it turned out it was not andwe elected to get married and
(22:03):
even in Ohio, with Arlene notbeing pregnant, even with
parents' consent, we couldn'tget married at that age.
My birthday's on January 27th.
We got married on February 21st, and so we've got an
anniversary coming up here in afew days.
But you know that that threeweek difference, where that's
how long I'd been 17 years old.
My 17th birthday was, you know,january 27th and so we ended up
(22:27):
, you know, getting married andI literally had been, you know,
17 years old for like threeweeks.
We we were married for 47 yearsuntil I lost Arlene here a few
years ago, unfortunately to asuicide, and actually, david
that's part of the reason that Istarted writing the book was to
bring attention to that kind ofbehavior and mental health
(22:50):
issues and suicide, and aportion of the proceeds from
this after the book does indeedmake any money is going to go,
with Scott Hanauer's help,chip's brother to helping
suicide prevention and helpingpeople with mental health issues
(23:12):
, and we've made so muchprogress since the loss of
Arlene.
I feel so badly and I'm goingto struggle to not have to have
tears in my eyes here as I stillmiss her and wish that there
was something that we could havedone and so many, so much stuff
that we know now that couldhave been applicable then.
(23:32):
So we got married.
I was doing repairs on on acouple of boats that were
crashed in Region 6.
Back there that were Ron Jonesboats.
I needed a drawing and I neededa little bit of help and I
called and asked us to talk withRon.
His shop was in Costa Mesa,california at the time, entitled
Ron Jones Marine Engineering,and we talked for a long time on
(23:58):
the phone.
He was just wonderful, waswilling to spend the time with
me, was very detail-oriented andgave me all the help that I
needed.
And somewhere along the line Idon't honestly remember if he
asked me or if he asked me if Iwas interested in coming to work
there or if I asked him, butsomehow we got on that subject
and I remember his answer wasyou cannot get here soon enough.
(24:21):
And so I went back.
We talked, arlene and I talkedabout it.
We packed up the belongings andthings that we had in a 6240
Conaline van towing, a 67 bigblock Mustang behind it with all
of our stuff in it and our twochildren at the time, big block
Mustang behind it with all ofour stuff in it and our two
children at the time, katrinaand McIver, were very young and
(24:46):
moved to Costa Mesa, california.
We built four Unlimiteds thatwinter.
It was Value Mart, lincoln,thrift, the Miss US and the
Country Boy that was for theWalters.
Um, they took, um, theyreceived it.
It was set up to be anautomotive powered boat.
Um, it was never ran and it wasa cab over automotive powered
boat.
It was never run in thatconfiguration.
(25:06):
Uh, bernie little ended upbuying it, uh, made a
conventional out of it and endedup being a Ms Budweiser, and so
I had the opportunity to do somany things there and learned so
much.
We were just getting into thehoneycomb aluminum boats in
those days.
All four of those boats werehoneycomb.
Of course, the 73 Pay Impactwas the first honeycomb boat and
(25:28):
that boat had just left theshop when I got there and the
U-95 was just leaving the shopas I got there.
And um, and the U 95 was justleaving the shop as as I got
there, and uh, we built severallimited class boats um that were
honeycomb aluminum a two 84, um, uh, al Curtis uh called the
gladiator.
Um, there was a honeycomb boatbut it also had what we were
(25:50):
calling a steerable strut on it.
It was like a stern drive, um,and uh, man, the thing was
awesome.
And and when, when it worked itwas unbeatable.
Um, the problem was that withthe stern drive, uh, couldn't
come up with you joints, um,that would hold up for the angle
of deflection and thehorsepower and the torque and
the different things and, and uh, and it broke more times than
(26:12):
than it finished, unfortunately,um and uh.
So, al, after a year or so offrustration, uh, seeing all the
potential that was there butjust not being able to utilize
it, uh, and really wanted torace the boat and be more
consistent with it, um, it gotconverted to a more conventional
, you know propeller shaft andum, uh, and that, um, we built a
, um, a honeycomb, seven literfor john leach, uh, the
(26:35):
buccaneer, two, a lot of woodboats, uh, were still still
being built in those days.
Some people that weren't realsure if this honeycomb thing was
going to work or not, andobviously it did quite well.
And so it was a big, bigexperience for me and so much
fun.
So many amazing people camethrough that shop Owners of
(26:56):
boats, drivers of boats.
I got the great opportunity towork with Ted Jones on a couple
of projects and so, yeah, justso much fun.
Man, it was cool.
Somebody needs to make a movieat this.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, that's one thing I never really stopped to
think about, like back in RonJones' shop his heyday, like
just so many unique charactersand just so many just big names
in the sport probably walkedthrough those doors and that's
awesome to hear.
You got a chance to work withthose names.
Oh man, yeah, yeah, that's big.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
And we did a lot of things.
I mean every class of limitedinboards.
Yeah, we built an offshore boatfor Betty Cook, a huge, big
catamaran called Kudu.
It was a honeycomb boat as welland Ron was always on the
leading edge, cutting edge oftechnology, always trying to
(27:50):
make the boats better.
And unfortunately, I think thatwas part of his downfall is
that, you know, as the boats gotmore and more expensive, you
know people either didn't wantto afford or couldn't afford the
new technology and thedifferent things.
And a lot of times you know wedid.
You know boats that that Ronlost money on just so that he
could, you know, help a friendor or help and, and even the
(28:11):
ones that we didn't necessarilylose money on didn't make any
money on it and and so a lot oftimes you know, it was just a
real losing situationfinancially.
And Ron was a much betterfriend than he was, you know, a
businessman and I don't think heever told anybody no and there
was always so much pride in aRon Jones boat.
(28:37):
You know there were so manyextra steps that a lot of people
that were building boats in thedays didn't take.
I remember, you know, when inthe wood.
When I was building wood boats,you know you'd get the bottom
and everything all done, get allthe deck battens and everything
on, get it all fared in andbefore you know we put the deck
on it.
You know we'd sand and varnishand spray the last coat inside
(28:57):
and it looked like you knowfurniture inside there.
And then we take newspapers andlay newspapers down everywhere
so that the glue when it drippedoff the sides didn't stick on
the bottom of the boat.
And then you know you'd have togo back in later after the deck
was on, through the pie, highcovers and deck hatches and that
sort of thing, and pull all thenewspapers and stuff out.
And that way, if anybody everlooked in there for any reason,
(29:18):
it literally looked likefurniture, they were beautiful
and those things all cost moneyand of course Ron didn't charge
extra for any of that and so,like I say a lot of times, it
was a losing situation as far asthe bottom line is concerned.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Wow, wow.
Well, yeah, he was definitely aproponent for the sport and
wanted to see things succeed andit grow.
Yes, um but I know around thattime you were also crewing for
some teams and I heard a storyyou were crewing for red, the
red band team.
Yeah uh, the boat had somehandling issues and you got.
(29:54):
Did you get a chance to getinto the cockpit and test it to
kind of maneuver some of thosethings and figure out?
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I did.
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I did, and that's another one of the points that
are in the book.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
In Guntersville that year McCormick and the guys had
taken the Walther boat that wasthe Country Boy, taken the
Merlin out of it and put aturbocharged Atlas in it and and
the boat was just a rocket ship.
And down the straightaways Ronhad it set up where it ran quite
a bit downhill.
(30:26):
It never got loose, it nevergot free and I went as a
consultant basically toGuntersville just to kind of
observe what was going on.
They wanted Ron to go and hewas just so busy at the shop he
couldn't go and I got the greatpleasure to be able to go and
would communicate with Ron everyevening on the telephone about,
you know what was going on Lotsof fog, lots of lots of weather
(30:49):
issues.
But it was a new ignitionsystem.
The boots, mallory was, wasinvolved with them on the
Mallory ignition stuff and a lotof problems with the
distributor caps and things thatwere, you know, moving around
and the thing would misfire anddrop a cylinder.
Two, hillborn was there andworking on the Hillborn, you
know, fuel injection stuff,trying to get things set up and
(31:10):
the weather was changing fasterthan they could change the pills
and you know, get the boat setup right and, as I remember
pills and, and you know, get theboat set up Right.
And, as I remember, um, we madeseveral runs over three days at
189 to 190 miles an hour on 11cylinders, you know, backed it
up both ways, both ways back andforth, and and uh, and never
could get, you know, to play onall 12 cylinders and uh, so left
(31:30):
there a little bit disappointedbut learned an awful lot about
uh, different things.
Uh got to Miami late, of course, and the boat was still set up
with the straightaway recordstuff, a very shallow skid fin,
a very shallow rudder set up togo in a straight line.
Jim wanted to get the boat inthe water against everybody's
(31:54):
better judgment.
You know, let's wait tilltomorrow, give us tonight to,
you know, get the boat turnedaround and and make things
better.
He decided, nope, let's justget it in the show and then
we'll make the changes.
And for those that are oldenough to remember, jim went
storming into the first turn inMiami there on that little race
course.
It unhooked the skid fin, spunaround and pitched him out and
(32:15):
when he got thrown out of theboat, his legs and feet and
things got tangled up underneaththe dash and things on the way
out ended up with something like300 stitches On top of that.
I don't know whether you know,and he didn't tell anybody.
He didn't expect that he wasever going to get hurt.
(32:35):
You know like that, but Jim wasa hemophiliac.
Once he started bleeding theycouldn't stop the bleeding and
he darned their blood to deathbefore they could get him to the
hospital.
Stitches in his legs to get himput back together and of course
(32:56):
, he ended up, um, still wantingto drive but had to go through
a long healing process.
And so we had several differentdrivers in the boat at different
times and and uh, uh, and therewas some pretty substantial uh
damage that was going to happento the boat later on when, uh,
when Skip Walther was asked todrive the boat, that was another
confusing situation andcontroversial.
A lot of people didn't thinkthat Skip had the qualifications
(33:17):
and the experience to drive theboat.
His brother, Salt, being one ofthe biggest proponents,
absolutely don't put him in theboat and Salt didn't want to
drive it himself.
David didn't want to drive ithimself, but Skip had some
experience in some five litersand and for, for whatever reason
I I didn't have any any part of.
(33:38):
I really wasn't part of theteam and really didn't have any
influence in in who was going todrive it.
I was just there as an observerand and Skip ended up in the
boat and and I honestly I don'tthink any fault of Skip Poulter,
I firmly believe that he had amanatee and it ripped the
transom out of the boat.
That thing was built like a tankand I mean it ripped half inch
(34:02):
thick aluminum angles that werein the corner of the rudder
brackets, you know, ripped thatstuff completely out of the
transom.
The engine stringers were two,three quarter inch nine ply
plywood, you know, bondedtogether with aluminum skin on
the inside of that for theengine compartment and all Tore
that apart like a phone book.
And when all that stuff cameoff, when the rudder and
(34:25):
everything came off, of coursethe engine was still running the
boat went into a big flat, spinleft-hand spin, pitch, skip out
.
Unfortunately, when he rolledoff the deck he got hit by the
boat and did not survive.
So the boat was in very badshape.
The team was in even worseshape.
Off to Costa Mesa, california.
(34:46):
They go with the boat, as itturns out, several other boats,
the four new boats that we hadbuilt that winter boats um the
four, the four new boats that wehad built that winter um, all
had um roller bearings, uh, andball bearings in the rudder
brackets, uh, rather than justthe standard bushings that
everyone else had been trying torun and run in an effort to try
and get the boats to turneasier, uh, make all that stuff
(35:07):
work a little bit better.
Um, it was a good idea intheory.
Uh, unfortunately, thesaltwater and those bell
bearings and things didn't workwell together and they would try
to rust and seize up and causeproblems.
And I mean in minutes you couldwatch the things rust in the
saltwater environment there, andthey just weren't sealed up
(35:28):
well enough to be able to dothat.
Unfortunately, there were acouple of other mishaps the
Value Mart ended up spinning outand Ron Armstrong that was
driving it got pitched out of it.
And the Lincoln Thrift and theMiss US had some, some rudder
issues and problems and we'reactually there was some
consideration about, you know,those boats not being and
(35:52):
actually I'm getting way aheadof myself here- but it was
actually some legal issues withthat, and I don't even remember
if it was unlimited unanimous orwhat the unlimited class was
calling themselves in those daysthat those boats were going to
be banned at the next race, andthat was in 1974.
So, this was the beginning ofthe of the season there and of
(36:20):
the 75, it was a 75 season.
No, it was 74.
74.
Yeah, 74.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
And so the boat ended up coming back to Costa Mesa
and that was kind of my project.
I'd been, I'd been with withthe team and and I work on the
boat and and that was my projectwas was, uh, you know, do the
repairs and get that thing putback together as um, as legal
issues came about and Paul Cook,betty Cook's husband, was kind
(36:52):
of a silent partner with Ron anda lot of the money was was, you
know, that are through the Cookfamily and Paul Cook's lawyer
said you know, I believe there'sgoing to be some lawsuits over
this and you know there was evena fatality and even though you
know that rudder didn't come offthe boat because of anything
that that you know Ron did orany kind of, you know that
rudder didn't come off the boatbecause of anything that that
(37:13):
you know Ron did or any kind ofyou know not designed properly
or not maintained properly.
In my mind there's no questionthat it hit something, but still
it was considered a rudderfailure and with other boats you
know having rudder failures andpotentially not being able to
run the next weekend inWashington DC, there was a lot
(37:34):
of issues and a lot of questionsand the rumors had gotten
around that you know, if thisends up in court, mr Cook is
going to be your money thatthey're going to be taking, and
so so Paul Cook and Ron Jones,kind of separated, went
different directions.
Unfortunately, ron wasn't in aposition to be able to take care
of that stuff on his own, andevery day there were fewer and
(37:56):
fewer people at the shop.
As a project would get done, um, the boat would leave, and some
of the people that were workingon it, you know, were leaving
too.
When I first went there, therewere probably 25 to 30 people,
uh, working at Ron Jones MarineEngineering.
Wow, by the time we got theboat done, the other boats were
(38:19):
done first the Lincoln Thriftleft, first the Miss US left the
value mark.
All those boats came back.
We're there for just, you know,basically inspections.
But the only one that reallyneeded an awful lot of work, um,
was the boat I was working onwas a red man.
Um, by the time we got thatthing done and ready to go to
(38:41):
the next race, which we werehoping was going to be tri
cities, that didn't.
It didn't get done in time, andand and.
So they ended up joining thefleet in Seattle.
Um, by that point in time, um,there were three of us left.
Um, it was.
It was Ron Jones Jr, actually,so four probably.
Jr was still there, but he wasa 13, 14-year-old kid sweeping
(39:01):
the floor working for mom anddad, that sort of thing.
Jim Metzner was still theredoing the paintwork, bob.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
I'll think of his last name here in a bit.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I was there doing doing woodworking, and, and
myself, and, as the story willgo in in the book here, when we
got ready to pack up the truckthe paint was drying and packing
up the truck, um, to get readyto go to Seattle the red man
team offered me a job, um, and Iwas excited about that.
(39:40):
You know I had, I hadvolunteered on several other, uh
, you know, unlimited teams atdifferent times, but this was an
honest to goodness paying job,um, you know to to be a crew
member, a professional crewmember, on an unlimited
hydroplane.
Um, and that's what I went totalk with Ron about it, um and
um.
I'll never forget you know thesmile on his face as, as he put
his arm around me and he says,john, I know, you know, we've
(40:01):
been talking about this forweeks, uh, you know.
And um, and he said, honestly,I don't have anything to offer
you.
Um, and he says I don't knowfor sure if I'm even going to
have a job once that thingleaves.
I think you should take it.
So I went home, chatted withArlene about it.
We had, you know, we're livingin an apartment in Costa Mesa.
(40:21):
There we had a first month andlast month deposit on the thing
and I just paid the rent anddecided let's go to a couple of
boat races and decide if this issomething I really want to do.
So so we came to, uh, seattle,went to seattle um and um and
ran the seafair race there um1974.
As I remember there were 14 or15 races we ran there was a good
(40:44):
amount of races back then.
Seattle yeah, we ran in seattleum, then went back, uh, madison
had been blown out from atornado kind of thing, and so we
ran in Madison in October.
It was cold.
I remember it was so cold thatwe ended up having to build a
gasoline primer system to beable to start the engines on
gasoline because we couldn't getthem to start on the methanol.
(41:07):
So we ran Phoenix, arizona, sanDiego, jacksonville, florida,
and then I think the last onewas in Madison that year, and so
(41:27):
, yeah, I ended up moving backto Owensboro, kentucky, to be
part of the Redman team.
It was a good learningexperience.
I got to do an awful lot ofthings.
Your original question was wayback when did I get to go for a
ride in the boat?
And, yes, I did.
And again, this story's in thebook.
It was one of the happiest butmost embarrassing moments in my
(41:49):
life actually and Jerry Bangswas driving the boat.
Some weekends Jim McCormick wasgetting to the point where he
wanted to drive the boat.
Still, tom Sheehy drove it inSeattle.
And none of these guys were thesame size.
Jerry was quite a bit shorter.
Jim McCormick was tall, thin,and so every time somebody else
(42:13):
wanted to drive the boat and itseemed like that's all we did
all weekend long was just movethe seat and the pedals to where
people could drive the boat.
Finally, in San Diego, where I'munderneath holding the wrenches
and things to move the seat,with somebody else inside I
don't remember, it was one of us, probably where it was being
(42:35):
sarcastic and kind of smart,alecky and um, uh, where
somebody said something aboutyou're moving the seats and the
pedals.
How many times do you thinkwe've done this this year?
And uh, I said you know, Idon't know for sure, but I'm
getting really tired of it.
You know, this guy drives theboat, that guy drives the boat
and I think I could go out thereand drive it as good as either
of those two are.
And I'm not realizing that.
Jim McCormick was standingbehind me as I'm running my jaw
(42:58):
here and he said well, hey,young man, that may not be a bad
idea, why don't you put thestuff in there, to where you can
reach the pedals?
And so you know, bless hisheart, I got to go for a ride in
the boat, and that was my firsttime in an unlimited hydroplane
.
What an eye-opening experience.
Like I say, that thing was arocket ship down the
(43:19):
straightaways.
It had run 180, 185 miles anhour even in those days, but
really struggled to get throughthe turns.
And so by the time we got toMadison which I say was in
October, it was cold I reallyfelt that we could make some
changes in the boat, free thething up a little bit.
You know, we'd probably knock10 or 12 miles an hour off the
(43:39):
top end, but if we could get itin and out of the turns quicker,
the thing could.
Just so much potential.
And so I wanted to deepen thesponsons a half an inch, and
Larry Crisp was the crew chiefat the time and Jim McCormick,
and, as we're talking about this, somehow it got to.
Well, if a half an inch isbetter an inch, if a half an
(44:00):
inch is good, an inch would bebetter.
And I'm saying no, no, no, no.
You know, I think that's toomuch.
Let's, let's not, let's not gooverboard here.
Let's, let's.
You know, I'd rather be notenough and have to add more
later.
Let's, let's, you know, I'drather be not enough and you'd
have to add more later.
And so I got outvoted on thatand we ended up putting in a one
inch shim under all the battensand deepening the sponsons an
inch.
And I remember the boat comingunder the the bridge.
(44:22):
It was coming into the wind,you know, it was probably 40
degrees or something.
Outside it was cold, so the airwas really dense and making
lots of lift.
And Jim, the boat had alwaysbeen so settled and never
overreacted.
And when Jim got to thestart-finish line there, jim
McCormick, driving it, ran overhis own wake from leaving the
(44:44):
pits, the thing you know.
It rattled off the sponsons andstuck its nose in the air and
just dangled there for a secondand Jim gathered the thing in,
cut across the infield and cameback and said get those things
out of there.
And I said, well, can we justtake half of them off?
Nope, nope, nope, let's takethem all out of there.
So we never really got theopportunity.
I firmly believe still to thisday.
If we were to deepen thesponsors a half an inch kind of
(45:06):
split, the difference there, itwould have got in and out of the
turn so much better,accelerated off the turn so much
better.
We would have given up some topend, but I gladly give up some
top end to get it in and out ofthe turns better.
So never got the opportunity todo that and unfortunately I
went from bad to worse.
There weren't many cab overboatsrunning in those days, jim
(45:29):
McCormick being old school andmost of his friends and the
people around there, you knowbeing old school and most of his
friends and the people aroundthere, you know being old school
.
With the end of the season, um,jim said hey, you know I've
been talking with, uh, you knowdifferent people and and you
know brilliant people and peoplethat are are on my hero list.
While bill cantrell, um, youknow some of the people you know
in in detroit at the gale shop,um, you know, said you know we
(45:52):
need to make a conventional outof this.
People you know in Detroit atthe Gale shop, you know, said
you know we need to make aconventional out of this thing.
And you know, put the driverwhere he belongs behind the
engine there.
And it literally brought tearsto my eyes to take this
absolutely beautiful you know,ron Jones configuration that I
knew there was so much untappedpotential there and to take what
I thought was a giant stepbackwards to turn the thing into
(46:14):
a conventional.
At that point in time we weregetting to the point where there
wasn't an awful lot going on atthe shop.
I was there by myself quite abit.
Jim and Bonnie McCormick werebuilding a new house and for a
long time it seemed like a longtime I ended up working at the
(46:38):
McCormick's house buildingcabinets, kitchen cabinets and
things, and not really sure whatwas going to happen there.
And then Jim said let's makethat boat a conventional.
And I said okay, I will do that.
But what happens then?
And he said well, we got lotsof things to do here.
We've got the sheet metal shop,you can do that there.
You know what happens then andhe said well, you know, we got
lots of things to do here.
You know we've got the sheetmetal shop.
You know you can do that,there's lots of things.
And I said you know, sorry, butthat's not what I want to do my
(47:01):
dad's in the heating, airconditioning and ventilation and
electronic electrical business.
I can work with my dad.
You know, jim, if I wanted todo that.
I want to race boats.
And so my agreement was that Iwould stay until the boat was
ready to go in the water and didall the work, basically by
myself, to, you know, turn thatbeautiful boat into a
conventional, which wasn't theright thing to do.
(47:25):
And, as history you know, ifyou go back and take a look at
it, you'll see that that boateventually did, you know, become
a cab over again and was never.
By that point in time all thegood stuff had been taken out of
it and it really was neverallowed to be what it could have
been.
But the other thing thathappened around that time that
made it very difficult on my endwas that another person on my
(47:51):
hero list, david Herrensberger,had called Jim McCormick and
asked him to drive the PayImpact in 1975.
And at that point Jim knew hewas going to go boat racing and
you know, probably the finestboat you know that you know was
out there, the defendingnational champion, the defending
(48:14):
national champion, gold cupwinner, all that sort of thing.
And, and so Jim really had nointerest in promoting his race
team or doing anything with it.
So at that point in time, Ihonestly thought that I was
going back to California to goback to work with Ron Jones, and
was on the way back toCalifornia to do that.
(48:34):
When we left Owensboro, myparents were living in Las Vegas
with my grandparents on mymom's side of the family and
managed some apartments therethat they owned, and so we
stopped there to visit myparents.
One thing led to another.
Ron wasn't really sure what wasgoing to happen, what was going
(48:55):
to go on.
He, unfortunately, had closeddown the shop, became good
friends with Bob Fendler, whohad a shop in Phoenix, arizona,
with the Lincoln Thrift stuff.
All of Ron's stuff, includingmy tools, got moved to Arizona
to be stored there.
Unfortunately, bob Fendler andthe Lincoln Thrift Company got
(49:19):
in some financial issues andwere being investigated, and so
everything was was on hold.
All the tools and everythingthat were there were confiscated
and trying to decide if theywere Bob Fendler's or who owned
the stuff.
And so, anyway, in the meantime, my dad had a I think it was a
(49:46):
40-foot vintage Chris Craft thathe was restoring.
That was out at Lake Mead and westopped into the Lake Mead
Marine Supp Marine supply, um topick up some parts and pieces
for that.
I was wearing a, uh, a boatracing t-shirt and hat of some
sort, and and uh started aconversation with uh, with a kid
that was a son of the guy thatowned the Marina there, um, who
(50:08):
was putting together, uh, a dragboat, a drag hydro, um, and uh,
one thing led to and I gotoffered a job at Las Vegas
Marine Supply, which I ended uptaking, and so we stayed in
Vegas for a while there andbefore I got the opportunity to
get back involved in with theUnlimiteds again.
So I answered a lot ofquestions there, but I don't
(50:29):
know if I answered the one youasked of me.
So, yes, indeed, I did get theopportunity to go for a ride in
the.
Redman in San Diego, and thatwas my first time.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, all right.
All right.
Well, quite the firstexperience you had there driving
an Unlimited, it was yeah.
Well, that's all the time wehave for this week.
If you're like me, that episodewent way too quick and you're
ready to hear more from Johnabout his illustrious career in
unlimited hydroplane racing,don't worry because I got you.
(50:59):
Next week we'll have part twoand continue the talk with John
and he'll explain more about hisyears with Atlas of Airlines
Racing, muncie Racing, workingwith Jim Lucero and moving on to
driving his own unlimitedhydroplane for David
Herrensberger and the Pain PackRacing Team.
Really loved hearing all of hisstories.
(51:19):
I can't wait to share more ofthem with you.
But one thing I'm more excitedabout is for John's book to be
released.
But he's got some great storiesto share and he's going to talk
more about his book in the nextupcoming episodes.
But I can't wait to purchaseone for myself and read his book
, because I know he wasn'tsharing everything in this
(51:39):
interview, which he shared a tonof information about his past,
but I know he's got some moregreat stories that I won't want
to put the book down.
We'll just say that In themeantime, don't forget to check
us out on social media.
We're on Facebook, instagram.
Don't forget to check us out onsocial media.
We're on facebook, instagramand you can check us out online
at ruchetailtalkcom.
Don't forget.
(52:00):
There is on that website a linkfor ruchetail talk plus, a
subscription-based service whereyou get early access to all new
episodes and as well as somefun surprises on the website, as
I've been adding on picturesfrom previous Hydroplane Racing
years, some fun articles, andI'm going to continue to build
my database and archives on myRoostertail Talk Plus
(52:23):
subscription.
It's kind of pay-as-you-go andchoose-your-own-plan anywhere
from $3 to $10 a month, but somegreat fun features.
Anywhere from $3 to $10 a month, but some great fun features
and all of that money comes backto support the show and really
cover all those hidden coststhat come along with a podcast.
As you know, I'm a teacher andthis podcast comes out of my
(52:44):
pocket, so over the years someexpenses have piled up, but I
continue to do this for my loveand passion for the sport of
hydroplane racing, because thesport has given so much to me in
my life over the years.
I'm hoping I'm giving my partback.
That's all we have for thisweek, though, so until next time
I hope to see you at the race.
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