July 15, 2025 • 30 mins
David Newton sits down with hydroplane racing legend Mark Tate to discuss his remarkable career from outboard racing to becoming a Gold Cup champion in the Unlimited class. Mark shares stories about his family's racing legacy and his journey through the sport's highest levels. Join us next week for part two of our interview with Mark Tate where we'll continue exploring his storied racing career.
*Photo taken by Bill Osborne
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Rooster Tail Talk, the podcast dedicated to
everything about the sport thatwe all love, hydroplaning racing
.
I am your host, david Newton,and it's time once again.
So sit back, relax and welcomeback to the show.
(00:52):
I'm your host, david Newton,and we're on episode 153.
And today's guest?
We have a new guest on the show.
I'm talking with Mark Tate.
You might recognize him fromback in the 90s.
He had some great battles himversus the Bud.
It was always the Bud was thetop boat and Mark got a chance
to knock him down quite a fewtimes and stole some gold cups
(01:14):
from them and had some greatraces and great rivalries in the
90s, always ran a beautifulboat.
I love the paint schemes.
They always had the WinstonEagle Smokin', Joe's Close Call
Really popped on the water.
A beautiful boat.
I love the paint schemes.
They always had the WinstonEagle Smoke and Joe's Close Call
Really popped on the water.
It was beautiful.
I was definitely a fan in the90s.
Hydroplane racing had a bigimpression on me in the 90s so I
(01:35):
definitely followed Mark'scareer pretty closely and rooted
for him on more than oneoccasion.
But you might not recognize hisname for that reason.
You might recognize him more asandrew tate's dad, because, uh,
andrew tate is taking the, theh1 series by storm, uh, winning
championships, gold cups, manyrace wins now, just like his
(01:59):
father did back with his career.
It was a great interview, reallyappreciated, appreciated.
Talking with Mark.
It's fascinating how you canget these great interviews via
Zoom now.
Technology is really advanced,although the audio quality, I
will admit, is not the best forthis one, and I apologize, but
he had some great stories, wentinto some technical stuff that
(02:22):
you'll really enjoy, went intosome technical stuff that you'll
really enjoy and I guess weshould just get into the
interview, don't you think?
All right, here's part one,multiple part episode of my
interview with Mark Tate.
Well, I'm sitting down here onZoom talking with Mark Tate.
Mark, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Doing great.
Thank me for doing theinterview with you.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I look forward to it.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Looks like you didn't get toomuch sun in Madison.
Hopefully the heat didn't getyou at all.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It was plenty warm there, I'll tell you that.
And yeah, I'm a pretty pale guy, so I'm pretty colored up for
myself.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Well, I appreciate your time and I followed your
career as a kid growing up.
A lot of battles between youand Bud.
It was some fun years there, soI'm excited to talk to you more
about your career.
But you come from a racingfamily.
A lot of traditions of racingin your family and before we get
into the Hydroplane Unlimited'sranks, why don't you talk more
about racing with your familyand what that get into the
hydroplane unlimited breaks?
(03:24):
Why don't you talk more aboutracing with your family and what
that meant to you growing up?
Was it just second nature torace?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
you know it was funny , I, um my grandfather raced, my
dad raced, my dad'sstepbrothers, two of them both
raced um, casey and lanny tate,um, um, and you know I followed,
followed that group around whenI was younger, racing and I and
72, I don't remember how old Iwas, but 1972 was my first year
(03:55):
racing but in 71, we went toLake Lansing, right Uh, outboard
race here in Michigan and um,right uh, outboard race here in
michigan and um, my dad waspointing out that some of these
kids were racing and what Ithought of it, and you know he
got me pretty, pretty excitedand and um, from there we bought
our first boat, which was aheadland j hydro and um, that
(04:20):
started my racing career in 1972.
In 1978, I went inboard racing,obviously because all my family
members raced inboards, and thenin 1990, I got the opportunity
to drive an Unlimited with SteveWoomer.
But as far as a family thing, Ieven met my wife, sandy Tay you
(04:40):
know now, but she was Sandy Rayat the time and was lived in
california and raced 145s and wemet in decatur, illinois, and
kind of corresponded for two ortwo and a half years and and uh,
we ended up getting married andwe had our two boys.
That were very proud of each ofthem and you know both of them
race rates as outboards andstill, and you know, andrew has
(05:04):
progressed through the outboards, through the inboards, into
unlimiteds and being verysuccessful and, uh, we're very
proud of them yeah, yeah, I'msure you're proud of both, both
kids continuing that racinglegacy.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Uh, I have to ask, though did you ever race against
sandy in the same class againsther, never raced against her,
nope.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Raced 145s back here in Michigan and Ohio kind of
thing in different places, but Inever raced head-to-head with
her.
If we did, she probably wouldhave beat me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, I was going to say it's probably a good thing
you didn't race against her.
That's right.
You might not be married.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh, not married, that's right, that's right.
Oh funny, and andrew might notbe.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, andrew might not be around.
Yeah, all right.
Well, with that, that, you're,you're, you're centered in the
detroit area and that seattledetroit rivalry has to mean
something to you.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Uh, growing up on the area, right yeah it I think
over the years when the yachtclubs kind of got out of it.
You know, seattle Yacht Club,detroit Yacht Club and that's
how the Unlimited was reallybased around for many years and
it made that rivalry, the cityrivalries, really big.
(06:21):
But since that's kind ofdisappeared.
You know, yeah, seattle'salways been a big race to me.
It was one that I never won,unfortunately, the year I felt I
had my best opportunity to winI blew over, pushing a little
too hard.
But you know that's racing andyou know no regrets.
(06:45):
You know I wish I could havewon one there for Woomer, but it
never happened.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, that was unfortunate.
I remember because I was a kid,I was 93.
And yeah, I thought you had itthere.
You had Chip on your outside,you had the lead and, yeah, just
got to you.
It's very unfortunate that youand Woomer never got that win in
Seattle.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
A lot of people didn't know.
We were fast that day and wewere having some handling
problems and we couldn't get agrasp on the boat ride real good
and and um and, after theblowover and we got the boat
back and Jim peeled the decksoff to start doing the repairs,
the front spar was broke on theright side and it had been broke
(07:31):
for quite a while because thosewere aluminum spars back then
and you could see where it wasbroken.
The aluminum was all gray andeverything, because the next day
when I got released out of thehospital, jim showed me he goes
well, here's why we couldn't getthe boat and settled down.
That spar was broken.
That sponsor kept flexing andpitching up and changing the
angle of attack, so but uh,still, you're supposed to, the
(07:54):
driver's supposed to drive theboat within the limits of the
boat and I was outside thewindow yeah, but but you were
doing everything you could towin, right, I was yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah Well, let's back up a little bit, because before
you got your start in thelimited ranks, you had a short
stint with the Shaneth ATAexperiment.
I want to talk about thatbecause I was too young then but
looking back at tapes and Ithought it was a great
promotional uh you know eventthat he was putting on it, but
(08:27):
it was short lived.
Can you talk about thatexperience and what your
thoughts were on on that, thatseries?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
You got to give Jerry Sands a lot of credit.
He spent a lot of personalmoney and tried to develop an
automotive um unlimited uhseries because he felt that that
was the direction that itshould have went after the
Merlin and Griffin deals.
Um, you know, he built a boatlike I drove which was called
double trouble and it had twomotors and two props.
(08:56):
And then he built a singleautomotive and he built a double
motor that were coupledtogether and so we had, you know
, three different versions thereand we were going around trying
to promote it and he was tryingto sell it to automotive
(09:16):
aftermarket companies forsponsorships and that kind of
stuff.
But unfortunately it never gotoff.
But yeah, it was a greatopportunity for Mark Tate to
drive a big boat and work withsome people and a crew and
understand the environment alittle bit of how those types of
programs were ran.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, was that a fun experience for you.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Very fun, yeah, yeah, was that a fun experience for
you?
Very fun, yeah.
I got to work with EinerGalashis, kind of maintained and
worked on my boat as my teammanager.
And then you had the twobrothers I can't think of their
last names out of Washingtonthere Rutt Brothers, rutt
Brothers yeah, I think that wasthem there.
(10:04):
They uh, rut brothers, rutbrothers, yeah, I think that was
them.
Yep and um.
They maintained two of theboats themselves and um, and it
was good collaboration.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
everybody kind of worked together and communicated
and and um and try to make it,you know, a feasible opportunity
for boat racing yeah, well,it's unfortunate that didn't
flourish, but I think you gotsome attention from that and
your inboard racing, because acouple of years later you were
(10:32):
racing Unlimiteds.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, a big part of my Unlimited career really came
when.
You know, it was funny I neverreally followed Unlimited
unlimited because I was sofocused on my own racing career
I never went to, never went tothe detroit event.
Wow, I was always racingsomewhere when that was going on
.
And, um, you know, afterdriving being very successful
(10:56):
seven liter and driving grandprix boats and having success, I
was friends with John Love andI asked John went to him and had
a meeting with him.
How do you know?
I'm kind of ready to make thenext step, but I don't know
anybody.
I've never been to an unlimitedrace.
How do I get involved?
And John helped me put togethera resume and within the resume
(11:21):
we put together video clips ofme driving and John and myself
flew out to San Diego for thelast race of the Unlimited
season in 19,.
What would that be?
89?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, it was at the Gold Cup down there in 89, the
year before you started withHarvey.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yep and John introduced me to every owner and
we gave them a resume and filmsand I got calls from Woomer and
I got calls from Harvey and Igot calls from there was three
guys, I can't remember who thethird was at the time, but
(12:02):
anyhow, harvey showed greatinterest and so did Steve Woomer
, and Woomer ended up hiringCropfield because the sponsor
wanted a more experienced driverand he was being let go at
Budweiser and that made sense.
But Harvey gave me theopportunity and that was a great
learning experience with Jimand got my feet wet.
(12:27):
And then the next year RJReynolds and Woomer called and
you know 91 got hired with themand it really elevated my
opportunities in Unlimited.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, huge opportunity there.
But I'm just curious going frominboard racing unlimited, how
big of a learning curve was that?
And I and I and I think it's somuch different nowadays than it
was back in your day, becauseyou had what?
Eight or more races, and nowthey have four or five races,
right, so it's such a condensedseason now there were years when
(12:59):
I was racing unlimited.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
We had 12 or 13 races of that, yeah.
But um, my first race was miami, ohio, and jim was in the
position to where he was, had amerlin boat and he was
converting it to a turbine andso we didn't test, he didn't get
the turbine program done.
(13:21):
We went to miami as a merlin,we raced miami, detroit,
evansville or in detroit, Ithink, those two races as merlin
, and then we switched afterdetroit, went to fairlane tool
and converted everything overthe turbine.
I think we ran turbine at maybeevansville and madison that
year or out west, or maybethat's what it was.
(13:43):
We ran the east coast with themerlin and went out.
So my very first heat we didn'teven get on the water at miami
to test.
Wow, we went right into the race.
You know, back then you haveall these qualifications and so
many laps and this and thatright, and I got barn burner
started on the outside and wegot down to that first turn and
(14:05):
bud and circus were ahead of meand they got to the corner when
they got to the apex and Ilooked into that corner and saw
the white water come together inthe wakes and how rough it was.
I just went, I backed out and Iwaddled through that corner and
got again back up the frontchute.
I mean you know we finishedthird, my first heat ever.
(14:26):
I was feeling okay in myselfbecause I got a great start.
And you know we got a third andput us in a good position, you
know, to accumulate points tomake a final.
And Jim was on the dock.
I got out of the boat andwalked up to the dock where Jim
was and he goes.
What happened in the first turn?
I said, um, jim, when I gotdown there I said that water was
(14:49):
two feet, three feet deep whentheir wakes came together and I
said I've never seen water thatdeep, that rough, in my life.
He goes.
I didn't think any boat wouldgo through that.
And I backed up and Harveylooked at me and he said, oh boy
, and he turned around andwalked off the dock and I
thought to myself I think Imight be getting fires and uh,
(15:11):
anyhow it all worked out.
We went to detroit and we had agreat weekend and you know I got
better and better and learnedthe water conditions and learned
how how well these boats canperform in rough water and what
they could do and couldn't do.
And by the time we went turbine,once we got a turbine in there,
it was like night and day todrive a turbine, compared to a
(15:33):
Merlin, you know, with a hittingthe nitrous and not over, you
know, can't go wide open Causeif you go just throw the pedal
down, the boost goes too highand then you blow up the the
motor.
And it was a big learning curve.
Just when I was gettingsomewhat good at it, we went
turbine.
And when we went turbine I waslike, oh my god, now I can drive
(15:54):
a race boat, I can concentrateand just drive the boat and not
worry about everything else.
So I I give a lot of credit topeople like deeth and crop,
field and chip and and billmuncy and, you know, dean
chenoweth, all those guys thatcould drive those piston boats
so good because there was somuch going on in the cockpit
(16:15):
yeah, that's something theaverage fan doesn't know about.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
All the atrocities to those voters.
Quite the learning curve youhad there.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
And I probably wasn't very good at it.
You know, I know I wasn't verygood at it.
It would take a year to reallyfeel comfortable and get a lot
underneath your belt.
But I was real happy when Jimwent turbine and I could
actually drive, just drive therace boat, and it was more what
I was used to.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, fortunately for you thenext year in 91, that's when you
got your big break with Boomer,rj Reynolds big sponsor behind
you, and they had bought a newboat from the old circus program
, got lucero on board, really anall-star cast for you.
Uh, at competition specialties.
(17:08):
How did that opportunitypresent itself from the next
season?
Was it kind of the impact youmade in the off season 89 there
that got you that, that gig?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I think.
So, you know, I think they hadthe interest of the year prior
they really watched me of how Iprogressed throughout that first
year with jim harvey and um,you know, jim cropfield I think.
I think he struggled theremainly because of possibility.
The equipment that they hadthat, you know, it wasn't up to
(17:40):
date as far as what they werebuying or what they bought, and
I think that they kind of feltthat, hey, we're buying this new
rig.
We really liked this young kid.
You know this is something thatwe can build and all grow
together.
And all the pieces came togetherand we went testing a couple of
times in Tri-Cities prior tothe first race there in detroit.
(18:04):
And um, jim really listened tome a lot on skid fin design and
we came up with three differentfins and width and a little bit
of depth, because in limitedinboards we didn't run real deep
like I call them dagger skidfins that everybody was running
back then and I talked to Jimabout it and you know now they
(18:27):
got all this money.
Well, jim went out and had threeof them machined and what
changed on them was the core anda little bit of the depth and
we could move it up and down orback and forth with all three of
them and we started inTri-cities with the smallest one
man.
It worked good.
And then the next.
You know, the next we changed,the fin went to the next one,
(18:48):
and the next one and we went tothe biggest one we had at the
time.
Well, now you can see where theskid fits are today.
They're huge.
They've taken that design thatgave us an advantage early in
that year on skid fin designthat we got around the race
course really, really good, andI really feel that that's why my
very first race we won the goldcup is.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
You know, we we were a step ahead of everybody in one
technology area yeah, yeah,that's impressive to step to a
new team and get that first winand and I love hearing that
backstory with those skid fins.
Was that like going from a youknow an okay racing car to like
a Ferrari from those two seasons, or was it?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Most definitely.
You know the other boat handleddifferently.
It was later on its speed, itwas accelerate much faster.
You know unbelievably night andday difference between the two
programs.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, you started a long career with Wilmer there in
91, had a fast boat.
You got to the winner's circleright away.
Like you said, you won thatfirst race in Detroit Gold Cup.
That had to have been somethingspecial in a hometown race.
Win right.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, pretty special moment First race with the team,
first race of the year, firstrace with a new sponsor, rj
Reynolds really their secondyear in the sport, uh, under the
brand name of Winston, and allthe pieces got lined up and we
won.
It was just in my hometown andyou couldn't write a better uh
(20:29):
you know story about it.
So it was.
It was, uh, quite an ordeal forme.
It was really an emotional day.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, yeah, well, fantastic, well, I mean you had
some great years there and theboat just kind of evolved with
the program, got faster andfaster.
And 93 stands out for mebecause that was an
impressionable year for me as akid.
There was every boat had itsown paint scheme.
That was beautiful and I lovethe winston eagle paint scheme.
It's kind of weird for anine-year-old to be rooting for
(21:03):
a cigarette boat, um, sponsoredboat.
But unfortunately for you youdidn't find the winner's circle.
But you had a highlight thatyear in 93 and you were the
first to to an oval lapqualifying over 170 miles an
hour.
So you were in Detroit, you dida lap of 170.087, first to go
(21:24):
over 170 miles an hour.
What was that ride like?
Did that stand out for you?
Could you tell it was quitequick, was that?
Could you tell?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
it was really quick, we we?
The story really behind thatthat deal is we hurt the boat
prior to coming in Detroit.
We had repairs.
We didn't get in there tilllate that day and we were
getting real close to where weweren't even going to get
qualified in.
And I said to Jim and I saidyou know, jim.
(21:54):
I said let's not put the rearwing on, let's run the low rake
propeller, let's change thebalance.
I said look at that water outthere.
I've never seen Detroit likethat.
It's a mill pond.
This is what we tested on andwe did.
We did some testing with thesetypes of combinations to see how
the boat handled, in case wewanted to ever run a straightway
(22:15):
record.
Oh so it was kind of where wewould test this and try cities
and Pasco every year and and weknew what we had and we knew it
was really fast and a straightline Jim goes, do you think you
can get it around the corner?
I said, man, I don't know, butthat's a big, big turn.
And I said the only concern wewould have would be the pit turn
(22:35):
.
And I said, you know, I said wemight not make it by the time
we put the wing on and get thatall on, we might not make
qualifying.
So Jim made the call he goes,we're going to do it.
And we set the boat up withthat set and we went out there
and when I came down that backchute the first time, uh, in the
(22:56):
warm-up lap, I said well, thiswill be the telltale if I can
get this boat through thiscorner.
But I came through there on arail and I I went off and ran
that 170 and um, jim lacero wasso impressed with it.
He one comment he made to me hegoes, you were come off that
(23:16):
pit turn and you accelerated sofast and everybody was watching
he goes.
It was dead silence and he goes.
You could hear the watertrinkle and the Brewster tail
falling back into the water.
That's cool.
And I get down into the firstturn and I'm probably already,
you know, three quarters of theway through the first turn, jim
(23:39):
comes over the radio and tellsme to back down.
And I get back on the radio andI said, jim, this is the Gold
Cup, it's two laps qualifyingaverage.
And he gets back on the radioright away.
He goes.
I told you to back down, youjust ran a lap over 170.
Well, now I'm on the corner andcoming up the back chute.
All right, I back off and comeback around.
(24:01):
And we still ran a lap at like16, almost 169, and I said I
said to jim, I said if youwouldn't hand me back off, I
said we were probably ran 173,174 mile an hour lap.
Oh my god and uh, and he goesyeah, we might not add a motor
either.
He goes, that motor was singingonly where the dogs could hear
(24:21):
it.
And uh but uh, I ran on thecomputer 211 mile an hour on
that lap to the pit turn andnever backed off.
I knew it.
It was unbelievably how fast wewere running that day.
(24:43):
You probably couldn't use thatcombination in race water,
though right, no, not with thatlow rate propeller Boat was way
balanced differently.
But in that calm water, thatwater was like a mirror that day
it just laid right down.
So it was, uh, you know,another special day in detroit
(25:05):
for me.
You know, it was anotherunbelievable moment.
Yeah, another funny thing aboutthat is well, sarah would never
come to the dock after a runNever Really and open the canopy
.
You know, shut the motor off,open the canopy, and the next
thing I know, jim jumps on theboat, comes down and shakes my
hand and and I and and thank,and he thanked me and I said,
(25:30):
well, okay, I, you know, Ididn't realize.
I said, well, what's that allabout, jim?
And he goes.
I was the first crew chief torun a lap at like 120, 130, 140,
150.
He goes, I missed 160.
Budweiser's got it.
You just gave me 170.
Thank you.
He jumped off the boat and ranback up to the truck.
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
That's a moment they have with jim and cyril.
You know, oh yeah, definitely,and you're, you know, one of
only a handful that have donethat lap of one over 170, I
think.
Uh, dave the walk has, dustineckles has chip has now my son
andrew, now your son andrew.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, amazing, pretty cool, and he went faster than
me, which is pretty cool, youknow.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah yeah, but not in detroit though not in detroit,
no, yeah still.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I mean it kind of shows you the growth of the
sport.
They've taken away the n2, thefuel, the boats are heavier now
and and they've creeped rightback up onto our top speeds and
qualifying.
They're not still running thesame speeds in racing water yet,
but I mean it tells you thatthe technology and the
(26:46):
development and the sport isstill there, which is kind of
cool.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty interesting to see all
all the other components thatthey have pushed forward over
the years to make that happen.
Well, you mentioned somethingabout straightaway possible
straightaway record that.
Did that ever come close tohappening, or was?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
it always in the talks it was always in the talk
and and, um and when they uh.
So when they talked about it, Ihad it put in my contract that
if we did a straightaway recordthat you know, you know what it
would cost them and uh, verydangerous, so you know.
But but it would have beensomething I would have loved to
(27:28):
have tried.
I think we could haveaccomplished it very easily with
our test data that we wereformulating and doing.
But RJ Reynolds was the onethat brought it up and
originally thought about it, butthen it never happened.
They decided that it didn'thave the value or the meaning
(27:48):
that they felt it would for them.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, yeah, well, it definitely is dangerous.
I mean, you know, a lot ofpeople lost their lives and and
broke broken some pieces overthe years trying to get that, so
, but what could have beenthough?
Right, yeah, but unfortunatelythat's all the time we have for
this week.
Knuckleheads.
Make sure you come back nextweek, same time, same channel,
(28:12):
and you get to hear part two ofmy interview with Mark Tate.
Until then, make sure you checkus out online, our website,
richardteltalkcom, as well as onsocial media.
We're on Instagram, facebook,and if you haven't checked out
Richard Tel Talk Plus yet, makesure you do so.
I have the 10-card trading cardset that I'm going to take with
(28:34):
me to the Columbia Cup andSeafair as well, and if you are
a member, I've already talked tosome of you before this has
aired and I've made some plansto meet up with you and get
those cards to you.
But if you're interested ingetting one of those card sets,
make sure you become a membertoday and secure your card set,
because they are a limitedrelease and I'm not going to
(28:55):
make a second print of them.
My plan is to have it made forthis year.
Maybe do a different card setlater this year, but do another
one next year for my Richel TalkPlus subscribers Not available
for sale, and again you have tobe a member to get one.
But that's all we have for thisweek.
So until next time, hope to seeyou at the races.
Rooster Tail Talk, the podcast dedicated to
everything about the sport thatwe all love, hydroplaning racing
.
I am your host, david Newton,and it's time once again.
So sit back, relax and welcomeback to the show.
(00:52):
I'm your host, david Newton,and we're on episode 153.
And today's guest?
We have a new guest on the show.
I'm talking with Mark Tate.
You might recognize him fromback in the 90s.
He had some great battles himversus the Bud.
It was always the Bud was thetop boat and Mark got a chance
to knock him down quite a fewtimes and stole some gold cups
(01:14):
from them and had some greatraces and great rivalries in the
90s, always ran a beautifulboat.
I love the paint schemes.
They always had the WinstonEagle Smokin', Joe's Close Call
Really popped on the water.
A beautiful boat.
I love the paint schemes.
They always had the WinstonEagle Smoke and Joe's Close Call
Really popped on the water.
It was beautiful.
I was definitely a fan in the90s.
Hydroplane racing had a bigimpression on me in the 90s so I
(01:35):
definitely followed Mark'scareer pretty closely and rooted
for him on more than oneoccasion.
But you might not recognize hisname for that reason.
You might recognize him more asandrew tate's dad, because, uh,
andrew tate is taking the, theh1 series by storm, uh, winning
championships, gold cups, manyrace wins now, just like his
(01:59):
father did back with his career.
It was a great interview, reallyappreciated, appreciated.
Talking with Mark.
It's fascinating how you canget these great interviews via
Zoom now.
Technology is really advanced,although the audio quality, I
will admit, is not the best forthis one, and I apologize, but
he had some great stories, wentinto some technical stuff that
(02:22):
you'll really enjoy, went intosome technical stuff that you'll
really enjoy and I guess weshould just get into the
interview, don't you think?
All right, here's part one,multiple part episode of my
interview with Mark Tate.
Well, I'm sitting down here onZoom talking with Mark Tate.
Mark, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Doing great.
Thank me for doing theinterview with you.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I look forward to it.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Looks like you didn't get toomuch sun in Madison.
Hopefully the heat didn't getyou at all.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
It was plenty warm there, I'll tell you that.
And yeah, I'm a pretty pale guy, so I'm pretty colored up for
myself.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Well, I appreciate your time and I followed your
career as a kid growing up.
A lot of battles between youand Bud.
It was some fun years there, soI'm excited to talk to you more
about your career.
But you come from a racingfamily.
A lot of traditions of racingin your family and before we get
into the Hydroplane Unlimited'sranks, why don't you talk more
about racing with your familyand what that get into the
hydroplane unlimited breaks?
(03:24):
Why don't you talk more aboutracing with your family and what
that meant to you growing up?
Was it just second nature torace?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
you know it was funny , I, um my grandfather raced, my
dad raced, my dad'sstepbrothers, two of them both
raced um, casey and lanny tate,um, um, and you know I followed,
followed that group around whenI was younger, racing and I and
72, I don't remember how old Iwas, but 1972 was my first year
(03:55):
racing but in 71, we went toLake Lansing, right Uh, outboard
race here in Michigan and um,right uh, outboard race here in
michigan and um, my dad waspointing out that some of these
kids were racing and what Ithought of it, and you know he
got me pretty, pretty excitedand and um, from there we bought
our first boat, which was aheadland j hydro and um, that
(04:20):
started my racing career in 1972.
In 1978, I went inboard racing,obviously because all my family
members raced inboards, and thenin 1990, I got the opportunity
to drive an Unlimited with SteveWoomer.
But as far as a family thing, Ieven met my wife, sandy Tay you
(04:40):
know now, but she was Sandy Rayat the time and was lived in
california and raced 145s and wemet in decatur, illinois, and
kind of corresponded for two ortwo and a half years and and uh,
we ended up getting married andwe had our two boys.
That were very proud of each ofthem and you know both of them
race rates as outboards andstill, and you know, andrew has
(05:04):
progressed through the outboards, through the inboards, into
unlimiteds and being verysuccessful and, uh, we're very
proud of them yeah, yeah, I'msure you're proud of both, both
kids continuing that racinglegacy.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Uh, I have to ask, though did you ever race against
sandy in the same class againsther, never raced against her,
nope.
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Raced 145s back here in Michigan and Ohio kind of
thing in different places, but Inever raced head-to-head with
her.
If we did, she probably wouldhave beat me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Yeah, I was going to say it's probably a good thing
you didn't race against her.
That's right.
You might not be married.
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Oh, not married, that's right, that's right.
Oh funny, and andrew might notbe.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, andrew might not be around.
Yeah, all right.
Well, with that, that, you're,you're, you're centered in the
detroit area and that seattledetroit rivalry has to mean
something to you.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Uh, growing up on the area, right yeah it I think
over the years when the yachtclubs kind of got out of it.
You know, seattle Yacht Club,detroit Yacht Club and that's
how the Unlimited was reallybased around for many years and
it made that rivalry, the cityrivalries, really big.
(06:21):
But since that's kind ofdisappeared.
You know, yeah, seattle'salways been a big race to me.
It was one that I never won,unfortunately, the year I felt I
had my best opportunity to winI blew over, pushing a little
too hard.
But you know that's racing andyou know no regrets.
(06:45):
You know I wish I could havewon one there for Woomer, but it
never happened.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Yeah, that was unfortunate.
I remember because I was a kid,I was 93.
And yeah, I thought you had itthere.
You had Chip on your outside,you had the lead and, yeah, just
got to you.
It's very unfortunate that youand Woomer never got that win in
Seattle.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
A lot of people didn't know.
We were fast that day and wewere having some handling
problems and we couldn't get agrasp on the boat ride real good
and and um and, after theblowover and we got the boat
back and Jim peeled the decksoff to start doing the repairs,
the front spar was broke on theright side and it had been broke
(07:31):
for quite a while because thosewere aluminum spars back then
and you could see where it wasbroken.
The aluminum was all gray andeverything, because the next day
when I got released out of thehospital, jim showed me he goes
well, here's why we couldn't getthe boat and settled down.
That spar was broken.
That sponsor kept flexing andpitching up and changing the
angle of attack, so but uh,still, you're supposed to, the
(07:54):
driver's supposed to drive theboat within the limits of the
boat and I was outside thewindow yeah, but but you were
doing everything you could towin, right, I was yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah Well, let's back up a little bit, because before
you got your start in thelimited ranks, you had a short
stint with the Shaneth ATAexperiment.
I want to talk about thatbecause I was too young then but
looking back at tapes and Ithought it was a great
promotional uh you know eventthat he was putting on it, but
(08:27):
it was short lived.
Can you talk about thatexperience and what your
thoughts were on on that, thatseries?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
You got to give Jerry Sands a lot of credit.
He spent a lot of personalmoney and tried to develop an
automotive um unlimited uhseries because he felt that that
was the direction that itshould have went after the
Merlin and Griffin deals.
Um, you know, he built a boatlike I drove which was called
double trouble and it had twomotors and two props.
(08:56):
And then he built a singleautomotive and he built a double
motor that were coupledtogether and so we had, you know
, three different versions thereand we were going around trying
to promote it and he was tryingto sell it to automotive
(09:16):
aftermarket companies forsponsorships and that kind of
stuff.
But unfortunately it never gotoff.
But yeah, it was a greatopportunity for Mark Tate to
drive a big boat and work withsome people and a crew and
understand the environment alittle bit of how those types of
programs were ran.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, was that a fun experience for you.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Very fun, yeah, yeah, was that a fun experience for
you?
Very fun, yeah.
I got to work with EinerGalashis, kind of maintained and
worked on my boat as my teammanager.
And then you had the twobrothers I can't think of their
last names out of Washingtonthere Rutt Brothers, rutt
Brothers yeah, I think that wasthem there.
(10:04):
They uh, rut brothers, rutbrothers, yeah, I think that was
them.
Yep and um.
They maintained two of theboats themselves and um, and it
was good collaboration.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
everybody kind of worked together and communicated
and and um and try to make it,you know, a feasible opportunity
for boat racing yeah, well,it's unfortunate that didn't
flourish, but I think you gotsome attention from that and
your inboard racing, because acouple of years later you were
(10:32):
racing Unlimiteds.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, a big part of my Unlimited career really came
when.
You know, it was funny I neverreally followed Unlimited
unlimited because I was sofocused on my own racing career
I never went to, never went tothe detroit event.
Wow, I was always racingsomewhere when that was going on
.
And, um, you know, afterdriving being very successful
(10:56):
seven liter and driving grandprix boats and having success, I
was friends with John Love andI asked John went to him and had
a meeting with him.
How do you know?
I'm kind of ready to make thenext step, but I don't know
anybody.
I've never been to an unlimitedrace.
How do I get involved?
And John helped me put togethera resume and within the resume
(11:21):
we put together video clips ofme driving and John and myself
flew out to San Diego for thelast race of the Unlimited
season in 19,.
What would that be?
89?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, it was at the Gold Cup down there in 89, the
year before you started withHarvey.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yep and John introduced me to every owner and
we gave them a resume and filmsand I got calls from Woomer and
I got calls from Harvey and Igot calls from there was three
guys, I can't remember who thethird was at the time, but
(12:02):
anyhow, harvey showed greatinterest and so did Steve Woomer
, and Woomer ended up hiringCropfield because the sponsor
wanted a more experienced driverand he was being let go at
Budweiser and that made sense.
But Harvey gave me theopportunity and that was a great
learning experience with Jimand got my feet wet.
(12:27):
And then the next year RJReynolds and Woomer called and
you know 91 got hired with themand it really elevated my
opportunities in Unlimited.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, huge opportunity there.
But I'm just curious going frominboard racing unlimited, how
big of a learning curve was that?
And I and I and I think it's somuch different nowadays than it
was back in your day, becauseyou had what?
Eight or more races, and nowthey have four or five races,
right, so it's such a condensedseason now there were years when
(12:59):
I was racing unlimited.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
We had 12 or 13 races of that, yeah.
But um, my first race was miami, ohio, and jim was in the
position to where he was, had amerlin boat and he was
converting it to a turbine andso we didn't test, he didn't get
the turbine program done.
(13:21):
We went to miami as a merlin,we raced miami, detroit,
evansville or in detroit, Ithink, those two races as merlin
, and then we switched afterdetroit, went to fairlane tool
and converted everything overthe turbine.
I think we ran turbine at maybeevansville and madison that
year or out west, or maybethat's what it was.
(13:43):
We ran the east coast with themerlin and went out.
So my very first heat we didn'teven get on the water at miami
to test.
Wow, we went right into the race.
You know, back then you haveall these qualifications and so
many laps and this and thatright, and I got barn burner
started on the outside and wegot down to that first turn and
(14:05):
bud and circus were ahead of meand they got to the corner when
they got to the apex and Ilooked into that corner and saw
the white water come together inthe wakes and how rough it was.
I just went, I backed out and Iwaddled through that corner and
got again back up the frontchute.
I mean you know we finishedthird, my first heat ever.
(14:26):
I was feeling okay in myselfbecause I got a great start.
And you know we got a third andput us in a good position, you
know, to accumulate points tomake a final.
And Jim was on the dock.
I got out of the boat andwalked up to the dock where Jim
was and he goes.
What happened in the first turn?
I said, um, jim, when I gotdown there I said that water was
(14:49):
two feet, three feet deep whentheir wakes came together and I
said I've never seen water thatdeep, that rough, in my life.
He goes.
I didn't think any boat wouldgo through that.
And I backed up and Harveylooked at me and he said, oh boy
, and he turned around andwalked off the dock and I
thought to myself I think Imight be getting fires and uh,
(15:11):
anyhow it all worked out.
We went to detroit and we had agreat weekend and you know I got
better and better and learnedthe water conditions and learned
how how well these boats canperform in rough water and what
they could do and couldn't do.
And by the time we went turbine,once we got a turbine in there,
it was like night and day todrive a turbine, compared to a
(15:33):
Merlin, you know, with a hittingthe nitrous and not over, you
know, can't go wide open Causeif you go just throw the pedal
down, the boost goes too highand then you blow up the the
motor.
And it was a big learning curve.
Just when I was gettingsomewhat good at it, we went
turbine.
And when we went turbine I waslike, oh my god, now I can drive
(15:54):
a race boat, I can concentrateand just drive the boat and not
worry about everything else.
So I I give a lot of credit topeople like deeth and crop,
field and chip and and billmuncy and, you know, dean
chenoweth, all those guys thatcould drive those piston boats
so good because there was somuch going on in the cockpit
(16:15):
yeah, that's something theaverage fan doesn't know about.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
All the atrocities to those voters.
Quite the learning curve youhad there.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
And I probably wasn't very good at it.
You know, I know I wasn't verygood at it.
It would take a year to reallyfeel comfortable and get a lot
underneath your belt.
But I was real happy when Jimwent turbine and I could
actually drive, just drive therace boat, and it was more what
I was used to.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, fortunately for you thenext year in 91, that's when you
got your big break with Boomer,rj Reynolds big sponsor behind
you, and they had bought a newboat from the old circus program
, got lucero on board, really anall-star cast for you.
Uh, at competition specialties.
(17:08):
How did that opportunitypresent itself from the next
season?
Was it kind of the impact youmade in the off season 89 there
that got you that, that gig?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I think.
So, you know, I think they hadthe interest of the year prior
they really watched me of how Iprogressed throughout that first
year with jim harvey and um,you know, jim cropfield I think.
I think he struggled theremainly because of possibility.
The equipment that they hadthat, you know, it wasn't up to
(17:40):
date as far as what they werebuying or what they bought, and
I think that they kind of feltthat, hey, we're buying this new
rig.
We really liked this young kid.
You know this is something thatwe can build and all grow
together.
And all the pieces came togetherand we went testing a couple of
times in Tri-Cities prior tothe first race there in detroit.
(18:04):
And um, jim really listened tome a lot on skid fin design and
we came up with three differentfins and width and a little bit
of depth, because in limitedinboards we didn't run real deep
like I call them dagger skidfins that everybody was running
back then and I talked to Jimabout it and you know now they
(18:27):
got all this money.
Well, jim went out and had threeof them machined and what
changed on them was the core anda little bit of the depth and
we could move it up and down orback and forth with all three of
them and we started inTri-cities with the smallest one
man.
It worked good.
And then the next.
You know, the next we changed,the fin went to the next one,
(18:48):
and the next one and we went tothe biggest one we had at the
time.
Well, now you can see where theskid fits are today.
They're huge.
They've taken that design thatgave us an advantage early in
that year on skid fin designthat we got around the race
course really, really good, andI really feel that that's why my
very first race we won the goldcup is.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
You know, we we were a step ahead of everybody in one
technology area yeah, yeah,that's impressive to step to a
new team and get that first winand and I love hearing that
backstory with those skid fins.
Was that like going from a youknow an okay racing car to like
a Ferrari from those two seasons, or was it?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Most definitely.
You know the other boat handleddifferently.
It was later on its speed, itwas accelerate much faster.
You know unbelievably night andday difference between the two
programs.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Well, you started a long career with Wilmer there in
91, had a fast boat.
You got to the winner's circleright away.
Like you said, you won thatfirst race in Detroit Gold Cup.
That had to have been somethingspecial in a hometown race.
Win right.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, pretty special moment First race with the team,
first race of the year, firstrace with a new sponsor, rj
Reynolds really their secondyear in the sport, uh, under the
brand name of Winston, and allthe pieces got lined up and we
won.
It was just in my hometown andyou couldn't write a better uh
(20:29):
you know story about it.
So it was.
It was, uh, quite an ordeal forme.
It was really an emotional day.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, yeah, well, fantastic, well, I mean you had
some great years there and theboat just kind of evolved with
the program, got faster andfaster.
And 93 stands out for mebecause that was an
impressionable year for me as akid.
There was every boat had itsown paint scheme.
That was beautiful and I lovethe winston eagle paint scheme.
It's kind of weird for anine-year-old to be rooting for
(21:03):
a cigarette boat, um, sponsoredboat.
But unfortunately for you youdidn't find the winner's circle.
But you had a highlight thatyear in 93 and you were the
first to to an oval lapqualifying over 170 miles an
hour.
So you were in Detroit, you dida lap of 170.087, first to go
(21:24):
over 170 miles an hour.
What was that ride like?
Did that stand out for you?
Could you tell it was quitequick, was that?
Could you tell?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
it was really quick, we we?
The story really behind thatthat deal is we hurt the boat
prior to coming in Detroit.
We had repairs.
We didn't get in there tilllate that day and we were
getting real close to where weweren't even going to get
qualified in.
And I said to Jim and I saidyou know, jim.
(21:54):
I said let's not put the rearwing on, let's run the low rake
propeller, let's change thebalance.
I said look at that water outthere.
I've never seen Detroit likethat.
It's a mill pond.
This is what we tested on andwe did.
We did some testing with thesetypes of combinations to see how
the boat handled, in case wewanted to ever run a straightway
(22:15):
record.
Oh so it was kind of where wewould test this and try cities
and Pasco every year and and weknew what we had and we knew it
was really fast and a straightline Jim goes, do you think you
can get it around the corner?
I said, man, I don't know, butthat's a big, big turn.
And I said the only concern wewould have would be the pit turn
(22:35):
.
And I said, you know, I said wemight not make it by the time
we put the wing on and get thatall on, we might not make
qualifying.
So Jim made the call he goes,we're going to do it.
And we set the boat up withthat set and we went out there
and when I came down that backchute the first time, uh, in the
(22:56):
warm-up lap, I said well, thiswill be the telltale if I can
get this boat through thiscorner.
But I came through there on arail and I I went off and ran
that 170 and um, jim lacero wasso impressed with it.
He one comment he made to me hegoes, you were come off that
(23:16):
pit turn and you accelerated sofast and everybody was watching
he goes.
It was dead silence and he goes.
You could hear the watertrinkle and the Brewster tail
falling back into the water.
That's cool.
And I get down into the firstturn and I'm probably already,
you know, three quarters of theway through the first turn, jim
(23:39):
comes over the radio and tellsme to back down.
And I get back on the radio andI said, jim, this is the Gold
Cup, it's two laps qualifyingaverage.
And he gets back on the radioright away.
He goes.
I told you to back down, youjust ran a lap over 170.
Well, now I'm on the corner andcoming up the back chute.
All right, I back off and comeback around.
(24:01):
And we still ran a lap at like16, almost 169, and I said I
said to jim, I said if youwouldn't hand me back off, I
said we were probably ran 173,174 mile an hour lap.
Oh my god and uh, and he goesyeah, we might not add a motor
either.
He goes, that motor was singingonly where the dogs could hear
(24:21):
it.
And uh but uh, I ran on thecomputer 211 mile an hour on
that lap to the pit turn andnever backed off.
I knew it.
It was unbelievably how fast wewere running that day.
(24:43):
You probably couldn't use thatcombination in race water,
though right, no, not with thatlow rate propeller Boat was way
balanced differently.
But in that calm water, thatwater was like a mirror that day
it just laid right down.
So it was, uh, you know,another special day in detroit
(25:05):
for me.
You know, it was anotherunbelievable moment.
Yeah, another funny thing aboutthat is well, sarah would never
come to the dock after a runNever Really and open the canopy
.
You know, shut the motor off,open the canopy, and the next
thing I know, jim jumps on theboat, comes down and shakes my
hand and and I and and thank,and he thanked me and I said,
(25:30):
well, okay, I, you know, Ididn't realize.
I said, well, what's that allabout, jim?
And he goes.
I was the first crew chief torun a lap at like 120, 130, 140,
150.
He goes, I missed 160.
Budweiser's got it.
You just gave me 170.
Thank you.
He jumped off the boat and ranback up to the truck.
That's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
That's a moment they have with jim and cyril.
You know, oh yeah, definitely,and you're, you know, one of
only a handful that have donethat lap of one over 170, I
think.
Uh, dave the walk has, dustineckles has chip has now my son
andrew, now your son andrew.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, amazing, pretty cool, and he went faster than
me, which is pretty cool, youknow.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah yeah, but not in detroit though not in detroit,
no, yeah still.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I mean it kind of shows you the growth of the
sport.
They've taken away the n2, thefuel, the boats are heavier now
and and they've creeped rightback up onto our top speeds and
qualifying.
They're not still running thesame speeds in racing water yet,
but I mean it tells you thatthe technology and the
(26:46):
development and the sport isstill there, which is kind of
cool.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty interesting to see all
all the other components thatthey have pushed forward over
the years to make that happen.
Well, you mentioned somethingabout straightaway possible
straightaway record that.
Did that ever come close tohappening, or was?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
it always in the talks it was always in the talk
and and, um and when they uh.
So when they talked about it, Ihad it put in my contract that
if we did a straightaway recordthat you know, you know what it
would cost them and uh, verydangerous, so you know.
But but it would have beensomething I would have loved to
(27:28):
have tried.
I think we could haveaccomplished it very easily with
our test data that we wereformulating and doing.
But RJ Reynolds was the onethat brought it up and
originally thought about it, butthen it never happened.
They decided that it didn'thave the value or the meaning
(27:48):
that they felt it would for them.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, yeah, well, it definitely is dangerous.
I mean, you know, a lot ofpeople lost their lives and and
broke broken some pieces overthe years trying to get that, so
, but what could have beenthough?
Right, yeah, but unfortunatelythat's all the time we have for
this week.
Knuckleheads.
Make sure you come back nextweek, same time, same channel,
(28:12):
and you get to hear part two ofmy interview with Mark Tate.
Until then, make sure you checkus out online, our website,
richardteltalkcom, as well as onsocial media.
We're on Instagram, facebook,and if you haven't checked out
Richard Tel Talk Plus yet, makesure you do so.
I have the 10-card trading cardset that I'm going to take with
(28:34):
me to the Columbia Cup andSeafair as well, and if you are
a member, I've already talked tosome of you before this has
aired and I've made some plansto meet up with you and get
those cards to you.
But if you're interested ingetting one of those card sets,
make sure you become a membertoday and secure your card set,
because they are a limitedrelease and I'm not going to
(28:55):
make a second print of them.
My plan is to have it made forthis year.
Maybe do a different card setlater this year, but do another
one next year for my Richel TalkPlus subscribers Not available
for sale, and again you have tobe a member to get one.
But that's all we have for thisweek.
So until next time, hope to seeyou at the races.
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