October 21, 2025 • 36 mins
A river can be an opponent. Detroit’s course demanded patience, precision, and nerve—and Tom takes us inside the cockpit where strategy beat horsepower and a single weekend helped rewrite how champions are crowned. Tom dives into his strategies on outsmarting faster boats and getting his perfect starts. If you love motorsport strategy, boat setup secrets, and the gritty truth behind historic wins, this one’s for you. Listen, subscribe, and leave a review with the moment that surprised you most!
*Photo from the Scott D'Eath collection
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (02:15):
Explain why we got a break there.
And how we got that to the fourfive styles and squareshop
rating things.
Let's do part two of myinterview with Tom.
Let's talk about yourprofessional career with George
(02:38):
Simon and Misty West.
And it's just so fun to thinkback on the time you had there
with him.
And you got him the Gold Cupvictory.
It was in Detroit.
I just want to hear yourperspective on that race.
It's such a challenging river.
You have to not only defeat theother guys, you have to defeat
(02:59):
the river in Detroit.
And you beat Bill Muncie headup.
Can you talk about that race andthat challenge that uh that you
faced?
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
Yes.
Um absolutely.
You know, we were not thefastest boat uh that weekend.
We were probably the fourthquickest boat.
We were having some pistontrouble with the turbocharged
Allison, and we were sorting itout.
Um and I had a pretty good trackrecord at Detroit, 74, 5, and 6.
(03:29):
Uh 74, uh uh, that was the spinand win.
Uh but I didn't win the finalheat because I never left the
dock.
The throttle cable inadvertentlygot left onto the turbocharger
after the trick trailer firing.
And when the five-minute gunwent off to leave the dock for
the final, I had won the firsttwo heats.
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
And the the very first heat I was leading down
the back stretch and the roostertail turn, and I hooked the
boat, went in the infield, cameout last.
Okay, Budweiser at they were allin front of me.
So I wanted to shake the boatdown.
This was 74, 1974.
So I uh I followed in last placethinking this is a first seat, I
(04:13):
gotta get I gotta pick it up alittle bit, Tom, if the boat's
okay, and it felt like it wasokay.
I didn't damage it or hurt it,you know.
And so uh I for the next lap Iwas chasing uh third and fourth
place.
And uh when I when I finallyfigured I I can get these guys,
I'm going down the frontstraightaway, and I have a
(04:35):
couple laps to go, and uh andI'm passing both, you know,
those third and fourth placeboats, and lo and behold, uh I
think it was Pan Pac andBudweiser were right in front of
them.
I said, Well shit, I could getthese guys too.
So I ended up passing everybody,and so I spun out, hooked it,
(04:58):
went in the infield, came out,didn't get disqualified, came
out last, and uh ran a few morelaps, passed third and fourth,
and and then I passed first andsecond and ended up winning the
heat.
And then, of course, the nextheat I won also, so I was seated
for the final, and then when weyou know, Jim Kirth was my
(05:19):
engine guy and and chiefmechanic and then and crew
chief, and when we put the boatin the water, somehow or another
in our haste, the throttleMorris throttle cable got uh too
close to the turbocharger and itseized up, so I had no foot
throttle, so we never left thedock.
So basically that 74 year I hadtwo firsts, okay?
(05:39):
Now we'll fast forward to 75,1975.
Uh and we're still, you know,we're still having some teething
problems with the engine, but Iwon all three heats in 75, and
that was my first victory, theGarwood Trophy race.
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:56):
And then we went out to Tri-Cities, okay, for the
Gold Cup in 1975.
And think about this.
I had the fastest 60 mile race,it's a historic performance in
1975, and I won the final heat.
(06:18):
But PanPac won the race on bonuspoints.
So we really changed the sport.
You know, uh the the Pan Pacfinal heat, all his 60 mile heat
averages uh were 107.379.
And my all my four heatstogether, the 60 miles, were
(06:42):
108.924.
So almost 109 mile, almost twomile an hour faster than George
Henley.
And I won the final heat, but Ididn't win the race.
So the officials went, I mean,think about this.
I had the fastest 60 miles ofthat weekend, and I won the
final heat, but not the race.
(07:02):
So they changed the rules sothat next year in 76, no matter
what kind of points you had,winner of the final heat was
going to win the race.
Okay, so that the Miss US reallydid change the sport.
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
And we changed the sport because of what happened
in 75.
SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
And you can even look that up in the rule book.
It's a gold 60 mile historicperformance.
So the 1976 APBA rule book hasthat in there in the center of
this section.
Uh under historic performance,got you know, George Simon, Mish
U.S.
Tom D 108.924 miles an houraverage for 60 mile.
Was at that time the fastest 60mile race ever run.
(07:48):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Gosh, that's so that's so wild to think about
that you you won that last heatand you didn't get the victory.
SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
I've only I've only actively run in seven gold cups,
period.
Remember uh 77 to 82.
Uh I was uh Muncie did a reallygood job of keeping me out of
the sport.
He in fact, I'll give you a astory.
Um for some reason or other,Muncy either didn't like my
father or me, or both.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
But he went out, he Muncy raced off the race course
as well as on the race course.
SPEAKER_01 (08:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (08:24):
And he was very close with George Simon for many
years, and I was the newbie.
So Lee Shayneth and George Simonand Muncy, you know, they all
went out to dinner.
This was before the 76 Gold Cup.
Okay.
And uh George Simon told me thispersonally.
He says, uh Bill wants you outof the sport.
He says, You're a troublemaker.
(08:47):
And you should you should getrid of this guy now.
And George says, Oh, really?
You know, thank goodness Georgedidn't do that.
And uh George told me the story,and Joe also corroborated it,
Joe Simon, his brother.
So Muncie didn't like me.
In fact, if you look at the 76Gold Cup CBS Sports Spectacular,
(09:10):
whenever you ever seen someonethat wins the race never gets an
interview.
You never see what that personlooks like.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
CBS Sports Spectacular, Muncie was in
charge with Hendrick, JimHendrick, you know, and Pat
Summerall.
And it is obvious there's nointerview with me in that whole
CBS Sports Spectacular show, nofacial shot, nothing of Tom D,
(09:41):
the winner of the race.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Yeah.
Jesus.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
You'll see me jump in the water at the end, and
that's you, but you'll neveryou'll they never interviewed me
after the race.
They there was and that wasMuncie.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
Like I said, he was successful.
In 77, I never got a call fromanybody.
So when George retired, he wassuccessful keeping me out of the
sport until he was killed.
Wow.
Wow.
Think about it.
77.
I I finished second in highpoints in 76, won the Gold Cup,
and my phone never rang.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Yeah, that's just wild.
I was always cu I was alwayscurious, like because you had
that gap there.
I didn't I wasn't sure if youwere changing it, because I know
you did some car racing, someother things, but I was just
kind of that's just wild.
SPEAKER_02 (10:27):
Yeah, I was kind of playing with the car racing a
little bit, and I ended up doingWorld Grand Prix Hydroplane.
That was that was new takingoff, and we had a full field of
uh uh World Grand Prix withCanada and the United States,
and so I drove and set I won Ionly raced in World Grand Prix
(10:48):
Championship three years.
I won it all three years withtwo different teams, 78, 79, and
80.
And we had a nice circuit and wemade money.
I mean, it was two grand, youknow, at that time it was two
thousand bucks to win.
So I got all expenses paid plusforty percent of the prize
money.
So it was another way for me topick up some income, you know,
(11:09):
once my career was apparentlyover with and unlimited, you
know.
And then uh I didn't drive uh uhthe team I drove for when I won
everything at 78.
Um I didn't drive for them in 79and 80, I drove for Don Ryan
out, you know, from Bellingham,Washington.
Total different vote, totaldifferent team.
(11:29):
And I won the championship forDon two years in a row.
Yeah.
So I basically ran World GrandPrix drive uh, you know,
hydroplane, APBA and CBF,Canadian Boating Federation, and
I won the championship um threeyears in a row with two
different teams.
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
And I won Valley Field, I only raced Valleyfield
three times.
That's this weekend coming up.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
I only raced there three different times, two
different teams, and I woneverything there was to win.
I won the Grand Prix and theMolson uh all three years.
Wow.
Yeah, and I won the CanadianGold Cup, uh Prince Edward
Canadian Gold Cup, 74, 76, and80, and I did that with two
different teams.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
Yeah.
Yeah, and you're the you're theonly person to have won those
races as well as uh three APBAGold Cups.
So you're in the record booksthere by yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
And not only that, I did in 76.
I won the Prince Edward Gold Cupand the APBA Gold Cup same year.
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Man.
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
And I won those gold cups with a sm uh a five-liter,
266 fuel injected on methanol302 cubic inch motor against
Grand Prix and seven liters.
You know, that's a whole that'sa whole nother really cool
story.
SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
But we did it by outsmarting them.
Not we weren't the fastest, butwe outsmarted them big time.
We we made them look really bad.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Well, how did you outsmart them?
What what what did you do tomake that happen?
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
When when we uh it was the team was the gone heavy
was the boat, Ronnie Brown'sboat, and his band.
We borrowed a motor from Lunudafrom the Roman Candle 302 Chevy
that David Irwin put together.
And we got to the race courseand uh we looked at it said mile
and two-thirds of not approvedfor records.
(13:24):
Not approved for records.
Okay.
And Ronnie and I, we had onepropeller, one gearbox, one
borrowed engine, etc.
We were just the three of us,Ronnie, um, you know, David
Irwin and myself.
And we all looked at the racecourse and I said, Ronnie, I
said, I don't think that's amile and two-thirds.
I says, and it it looks reallyshort.
(13:45):
And I says, uh, what can we do?
And he says, Well, we don't havebut just what we got.
And I says, What's what kind ofgears are in the gearbox?
And he says, Well, what what wasin there when I bought the boat,
six percent overdrive.
And I says, let's flip them.
What?
And I says, Yeah, let's sixpercent.
(14:07):
We need acceleration here.
We don't need anything else butacceleration.
It's a big body of water, it'sprobably gonna get a little
lumpy.
I says, let's just flip thegears.
Well, we'll float the valves.
I said, Well, you tell David toopen up the valve lash, do our
his magic on the engine, buttell him we're probably gonna
float the valves, but dosomething that'll get us more
acceleration.
(14:27):
So we pulled the gearbox outduring the driver's meeting, we
flipped the gears upside down,so we were six percent
underdrive, and we only had a19-12-19 pitch propeller, but I
mean it would go blinding fastfrom nothing to you know 130 at
least, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
And uh and on every straightaway I floated the
valves three times, and we wonwe won the Prince Edward Gold
Cup, beating guess who?
His father.
His dad protested, he protestedhis own son.
He thought we had a 450 in thereinstead of a 302, you know.
But his dad had a 473 blownChrysler with Bill Hodge driving
(15:08):
it, and and he they had 50%overdrive, and and but they
couldn't get that big hoggetting going, and and one I
could hear him coming, you know,but I was already in the
turnhead the other way.
So that's how we won the 76Prince Edward Gold Cup.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
That's funny.
Well, it's always fun tooutsmart your opponents with
whatever with whatever you can,right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:32):
Yep.
So uh and again, you know, Idon't get a lot of credit for
uh, you know, some of thatstuff, but I've I I did race in
all these different series, andI didn't even race in 11, you
know, Chips won what, 11 goldcups?
I only raced in seven, and I wonfour final heats, and I actually
(15:54):
won three.
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
You can look at my record.
I only I only actually competedin seven gold cups, period.
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah, it's I you know I forget forget that
because there were you had ayear there, I think in 86 where
you you weren't allowed to racein the gold cup um because the
team didn't travel to Miami.
So yeah, there was some otherfactors there outside of your
own.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Yeah, the owners, yeah.
The owners kept us out of thesport because we were a threat.
There's no doubt we were athreat.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
I mean that we we almost won Evansville.
One more, one more bottle ofnitrous.
I would have won Evansville.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Yeah, that's that's another story.
I want I want to talk about the86 um yeah Evansville, because
yeah, you you showed them thatyou you had something there with
that Merlin and you had all theturbines behind you at 7-Eleven,
Miller, Budweiser, you had thembeat.
Um probably one of the one ofthe better starts he ever had.
Not that you had a bad start,but you smoked them, but simply
(16:54):
just simply the fact that youran out of nitrous.
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
Yeah, um right at the end there, I I did, you
know, and when you run out ofnitrous, you still when you hit
the button, you run out ofnitrous, but you're still
injecting water alcohol into themotor.
And of course, as soon as I hitthe button and there was no
nitrus, it the motor quit for alittle bit.
You know, it's ow, and then it Itook my thumb off the button and
it's clearing itself out.
(17:19):
And and of course Cropfield wascoming, he was coming every lap.
Um I'm gonna back up a littlebit because how I got the
beautiful start.
I had been watching every heatall day long uh on the bank and
this uh and every time, youknow, because Cropfield and all
them guys, they were allfighting each other in the
(17:40):
five-minute period.
And when they got to the exit ofthe corner before, you know, 3-4
corner, every time they driftedto the outside and left that
lane open every heat.
And I kind of said to myself,you know, I'll just hang behind
those guys, let them do their,you know, their dog and pony
(18:03):
show, and whoever thinks theygot the inside, if they do
exactly what they did in theprevious heats, they're gonna
hit the exit pin and drift wideand leave that lane open.
That's exactly what happened.
They hit that that exit pin, uh,you know, Chip and Bud and and
(18:25):
Reynolds and uh and the thewhole fleet kind of drift
because they were early, so theyall kind of went wide.
And I was back in their roostertails, and I'll tell you what,
when I got to my timing mark, uhthey were way ahead of me and
slow.
And of course I got on thenitrous and I had a thunder pump
and run all the way to the clockand I hit my mark just perfect.
(18:47):
And and of course, uh from thenon it was defensive driving.
Go in wide, come out tight, goin tight, come out wide, be
unpredictable.
I knew they were gonna comebecause they were faster.
But uh you know, I guess I heldthem off for four laps.
Um quite honestly, uh as soon asI crossed the start-finish line
(19:09):
in second place after Bud gotme, I didn't hardly go five
hundred feet and the re theother two got me too, you know.
But the race was over.
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
So it was fun to keep them behind me for as long
as I did.
And and um, you know, uh theother thing I'm proud of that
year is we never heard a motor.
We never we didn't cost BobStyles anything but nitrous and
aviation fuel and water alcohol.
Uh we never even heard of sparkplug, nothing.
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
That's that's almost unheard of, right?
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
We ran we ran uh you know four races that year and
pretty much any second at everyrace, you know.
So it was it was Jim Harvey wasuh you know, nothing against
Jerry Zuvich, because that's whoI won a couple races with in the
earlier squire, which was a dog.
But uh, but I mean uh Zuvich'smotors were fast, but there was
(20:08):
Bardall blood all over the deckand in the bilge every time I
came back.
When I drove for Harvey there,those few races that I drove
those two years, you could youknow, you could wipe up the
bilge with two paper towels.
Wow.
And I and those motors that thatI got from Jim Harvey were just
(20:29):
bullets.
Uh every time he sent me out,and every time we ran, he would
take that motor out and put adifferent one in, you know.
He had his routine of uh what wedid, but uh he was he was really
something to to be a driver for.
I really enjoyed my time withZuvich and Harvey, but Harvey
(20:50):
was by far the cagest and thesmartest.
And we brought the steel skininto the sport, you know.
Um I don't know if you rememberthat, but Lasera was banned from
boat racing because of some sortof deal that was going on with
uh Fran Muncie and Bill Bennettwith Circus and stuff like that.
(21:10):
So he was like being sued orsomething, and and I was doing a
steel skid pin back in the eastwith our limited inboard
hydroplanes.
Willard Wilson and I were wereworking on and we did that and
was really successful with it inthe small classes.
And I was telling Jim Harvey weneed to get a steel skid pin,
and he said, Well, I I can't dothat.
(21:31):
And I said, Well, who who do youthink can?
And he says, Well, I could Icould get a hold of Sarah, maybe
he could get it done.
And I was telling him how we didit because you don't want to
heat treat it, you you know, uh,until uh you you got to do the
blanching grinding after theheat treating because it's the
tougher way to do it.
You can sharpen and all thatkind of stuff to steel, but if
(21:54):
you heat treat it, then it'sgonna warp.
You follow me?
SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:57):
So you had to do the blanchard grinding after it was
already hard.
So basically, I sent out toHarvey uh, you know, a paper
drawing of what I thought weneeded to do, and he relayed
that to Jim Lasero, who actuallymade the fin, and then uh we
brought it in secretly, youknow, because Lasero wasn't
(22:20):
allowed in the pit area.
And so between Harvey Lacero andmyself, we mounted that steel
skid fin on there, and boy, didthat make a difference.
I mean, it you know, I wasalmost the beat Han Hour uh
again with uh the first timeanybody ever used a steel skid
(22:40):
fin.
SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
Wow.
And that must have been 85, 86,somewhere around there.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
Yeah, I 86, I believe.
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Yeah, 86, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
It was 86.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Yeah, and you talk you talked about Harvey with his
engines, and um, I'm too youngfor it, but uh everyone I've
talked to back in the day saidthat like in '86, those motors
just had a different sound tothem.
They were just on another level.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Um hundred percent.
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's just so cool tothink back on.
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Yeah, and we did have Dax uh flowing our water
alcohol system, you know.
But Jim had all the connectionswith everybody because of the
Atlas, you know, when he wasdoing the Atlas stuff for Chip,
you know.
Right.
And so, but uh Dexter Smith,Dax, I call him, uh he he, you
know, uh did the alcohol uhwater system and the flowing of
(23:34):
that with the nitrous.
Uh when we started out in thatseason, they gave me two bottles
of nitrous, which I guess is wasthe normal for a Merlin.
And uh and then when we ran out,we went to three bottles.
And then when we ran out afterthree, we went to four bottles
(23:55):
of nitrous.
And I still ran out.
So Jim told me I never used somuch damn nitrous in my whole
life with anybody, you know.
And he was screw cheap.
And for a lot of guys that werepretty sharp with Merlin
engines, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
But I figured out a way to, you know, I wasn't
abusing the motor, but I againthe Ray Gastner, don't let the
boat do anything or the motor doanything it doesn't like.
So I would tickle the nitrous,and I could I could tell, tickle
by just touching the button alittle bit at a time, you know.
And I'd watch the manifoldpressure on the RPM.
(24:35):
And uh and I could tell by doingthat that I could get the most
acceleration, keep the prophooked up in the water uh by
doing that, and hence it wasn'treally hard on the motor, and
then when you were halfway downthe straightaway, you could
relax your thumb off of thenitrous button, and then you
could tell whether you were itwas slowing down or not, you
(24:56):
know.
Maybe at the halfway point tothe 5/8 point of the
straightaway, I could take mythumb off of the nitrous button,
and then the RPM would still bethere and it it wasn't slowing
me down.
And I didn't have to get back onthe nitrous button again until
near the exit of the nextcorner, and then I would just
tickle the button a little bitand I could tell that I'm too
(25:18):
close to 120 inches, so I can'tgive it too much, you know.
So I guess that's the reasonthat I probably use more nitrous
than anybody else did.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Yeah.
Well it it was fun.
Yeah, that's uh that'simpressive though.
Like you said, you didn't blowup any motors, didn't hurt any
equipment, and no, and you'reyou're out there just you're
concentrating on racing, butyou're doing all these other
things, so it's quite impressiveto to think back on.
SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah, and and uh and the Harvey, you know, uh that
was the 82 Atlas, you know.
It no wonder chip won with thatthing, it was really a sweet
boat to drive.
Even in the milling period, itdidn't have any bad habits.
You know, some of the boats thatyou get into, um, you could tell
right away if they they havesome bad habits, uh you know,
(26:08):
even at the slower speeds, youknow, but uh that particular
boat didn't really have any badhabits anywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Yeah.
unknown (26:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:16):
Well, I want to I want to go back to to you Miss
US had another question for youwith that.
And I heard stories that youknow once he got his gold cup,
he decided he was done with thesport.
Is that true?
Is that is that why he exited?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:30):
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
In fact, we partied at GeorgeSimon's home on Vendome in in
Grove Point until five o'clockthat morning, and basically and
he told me that uh even when Ihired on.
Remember, I was the team managerand the driver.
After the 73 season, he hadgotten rid of everybody, and
(26:50):
that's when he he hired me to bethe team manager and driver.
But anyway, when he when I hiredon in 74, uh, because he was
kind of against the cab over.
He wanted to have the motor infront of the driver, you know.
He really everybody in theunlimited sport really was kind
of a against the cab over.
But anyway, uh he told me thenif we ever his goal was to win a
(27:14):
gold cup, and if we ever won agold cup, that'd be the happiest
day of both of our lives, andprobably the saddest day for
mine because he would quit.
At five o'clock in the morning,he told us to get everything
back to the shop and lock it up,we're done.
And Lee Shayneth and Buddy Byersand maybe even Bernie Little uh
(27:36):
talked him into not quitting uhbecause the boat needed to be uh
finished the season.
Remember, George Simon neverlost a driver.
Right, right.
Never lost a driver.
So he was uh very much in tuneto that.
He didn't want to be uh he lostfriends that were driving for
(27:59):
other people.
Donnie Wilson drove for GeorgeSimon and was killed in the
Budweiser, you know.
Right.
But uh he never lost a driverand he was really conscious of
he wanted to leave the sport asa gold cup champion because he
won everything else at leastonce, you know, uh all over the
country.
And but he never won that goldcup until then.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
So well that's that's a great way to go out
with uh the Gold Cup victory.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Yeah, and uh like I said, uh between Lee Shayneth
and Buddy Byers, who I think wasthe head of the sport, and
Bernie Little maybe.
Uh you know, they kind ofconvinced him that he re So we
didn't really have much to go toMadison with the next race,
which was the next weekend.
(28:46):
The bottom of the Miss US wasall paved in at the at the
transom.
Uh I mean I had to I had to takeit over to the machinery mart
and flip it upside down and anduh fix the bottom while uh and
we only had one motor left thatwas good, which was the one that
we had in the final heat, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
And I'm gonna give a lot of credit to to uh Jim Kerf.
He wasn't on our team at thattime, but Jim Kirth was the one
that uh between him and I we dida lot of dyno work over at
Gales.
And uh really the basis forthose engines was developed by
Jim Kerf.
(29:25):
And all uh Ronnie was a greatcrew chief, don't get me wrong,
Ronnie Brown.
Oh, yeah, and Dave Irvin was agreat mechanic, but we basically
uh improved a little bit on whatJim had already done, if you
know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
I was in charge of the propellers, I was in charge
of the hull, I was in charge ofthe gearboxes.
That was my part of it when Iwasn't driving, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
So Well, I I didn't realize this until the the
magics of internet and Facebook,but um I saw a picture of the
U.S.
sinking in the Detroit River.
River.
And apparently there was anafter-year celebration where
crew members got to drive theboat and someone either rolled
it or flipped it.
(30:09):
Were you there for that?
That last year?
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Yes, I was.
We did that on Harson's Islandand uh in front of Jack Love's
Cottage.
Uh we launched a boat at mydad's marina, and George always
uh uh prided himself on neverlosing a driver, but he also
wanted to reward uh the peoplethat were on the team if they
were interested to take the boatfor a ride.
(30:33):
And we purposely, Ronnie and Ipurposely did not let David
Irwin drive the boat until thelast.
And we even shorted him on fuel.
We thought that you know,because the boat carried 75
gallons on each side of methanolplus whatever is in the surge
tank.
And so we didn't fill it up, weput 50 gallons in, which is like
(30:56):
half a load, you know.
Because we knew David wasn'tgonna listen to us, and we
figured we'll run him out offuel before he does anything
stupid.
We were wrong.
He did something stupid andcrashed a boat.
He turned it the wrong way.
Uh right in front of he wreckedin front of the Coast Guard base
on Harson's Island.
And uh Yeah, he went actually wetold him where he could run
(31:20):
right in front of us.
And when he got to the end of uhJack Love's cottage there, uh
there's a dog leg that heads outtoward Lake St.
Clair.
We're we're in the in the uhnorth channel of the St.
Clair Flats area, not intoDetroit River.
SPEAKER_01 (31:37):
Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (31:38):
And so he made it like a half a turn, and at the
apex, we could tell that heturned to the right a little bit
and he went straight out to thelake, and we saw nothing but a
rooster tail uh above the bullrushes heading out toward Lake
St.
Clair.
And Ronnie and I looked at eachother and went, Oh shit.
You know.
And so he went out in the lake,and the the chief at the Coast
(32:01):
Guard base told us this becausewe couldn't see anymore.
He just disappeared, you know,all we saw was the rooster tail
uh heading out toward Lake St.
Clair.
And then so we kind of waited,waited, and we couldn't hear it
anymore.
And he actually turned aroundout in the lake the correct way
to the left, and then on the wayback, the dog leg is the wrong
(32:22):
way.
You have to turn to the right tomake it back to where we were,
okay.
And according to what the chieftold us is that he tried to make
that turn by that littlelighthouse and to the right, and
of course it it flipped, itbarrel rolled.
Yep.
(32:42):
So he's the one that crashed it.
I do have still shots of it uhin my scrapbook, uh, and we've
never really released those toanybody, to my knowledge.
Uh, but there could have beensome other people that took
pictures of it, but it wasdefinitely wrecked.
And Ronnie and I uh the seasonwas over with, and of course
(33:04):
Ronnie Brown and I were kept onemployment to uh fix it and get
it ready for sale, you know.
And we had to inventory all themotor parts, gearbox,
propellers, all that kind ofstuff for George Simon, and then
and then he let us both go.
And uh uh the boat eventuallywas picked up by Bernie Little.
(33:25):
And uh he he was gonna put thegriffin in, but it wouldn't fit.
And so uh the bud uh you knowthe Ron Jones bud got built and
the mission tests never racedagain, really.
It became a display boat.
SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Yeah, yeah, it never ran again.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
It's yeah, it went through different colors and um
yeah, no it never ran again asuh you know as an unlimited
hydroplane that I know ofanyway.
SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
Will Muncing did something, but I think that was
his own little that wasn't theunlimited sanction uh racing.
It was Will Munsing didsomething with the boat, but I
don't remember exact I wasn'tout there, so I really don't
can't comment.
I don't know.
But I don't think it ever racedagain as a real unlimited
hydroblane.
SPEAKER_00 (34:12):
No, I don't I don't believe it did as well.
SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Well, yeah, unfortunate end to your time
there with that crash, but thatwas out of your hands.
Isn't it crazy to think back in1976 as a crew member?
You win the gold cup.
Your time as a as a team isover.
George Simon pulls the plugwinning that gold cup, but he
celebrates by letting all thecrew members go out on the
(34:37):
Detroit River and get a chanceto drive the high defense that
they've been working years on.
And unfortunately, the lastpersonnel goes and wrecks it,
and that's how the team endstheir time together.
So wow, thankfully, no one washurt in that story.
But unfortunately for us, that'sall the time we have for this
week, knock ahead.
Make sure you come back nextweek and listen to episode 157
(35:00):
and part two of my interviewwith Tom Feed.
In the meantime, don't forget tocheck us out on social media,
we're on Facebook and Instagram,and we're also online with our
website Richardtalk.com.
On there, you can find out manyfun features of the podcast.
And you can also find out forRichard Talk Plus, uh premium
subscription phase service.
(35:21):
We get early access to all thisepisode and lots of other fun
tweets and prizes along the way.
Well, that's all we have for thetweet.
So until next time, I hope tosee you.
Explain why we got a break there.
And how we got that to the fourfive styles and squareshop
rating things.
Let's do part two of myinterview with Tom.
Let's talk about yourprofessional career with George
(02:38):
Simon and Misty West.
And it's just so fun to thinkback on the time you had there
with him.
And you got him the Gold Cupvictory.
It was in Detroit.
I just want to hear yourperspective on that race.
It's such a challenging river.
You have to not only defeat theother guys, you have to defeat
(02:59):
the river in Detroit.
And you beat Bill Muncie headup.
Can you talk about that race andthat challenge that uh that you
faced?
SPEAKER_02 (03:07):
Yes.
Um absolutely.
You know, we were not thefastest boat uh that weekend.
We were probably the fourthquickest boat.
We were having some pistontrouble with the turbocharged
Allison, and we were sorting itout.
Um and I had a pretty good trackrecord at Detroit, 74, 5, and 6.
(03:29):
Uh 74, uh uh, that was the spinand win.
Uh but I didn't win the finalheat because I never left the
dock.
The throttle cable inadvertentlygot left onto the turbocharger
after the trick trailer firing.
And when the five-minute gunwent off to leave the dock for
the final, I had won the firsttwo heats.
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
And the the very first heat I was leading down
the back stretch and the roostertail turn, and I hooked the
boat, went in the infield, cameout last.
Okay, Budweiser at they were allin front of me.
So I wanted to shake the boatdown.
This was 74, 1974.
So I uh I followed in last placethinking this is a first seat, I
(04:13):
gotta get I gotta pick it up alittle bit, Tom, if the boat's
okay, and it felt like it wasokay.
I didn't damage it or hurt it,you know.
And so uh I for the next lap Iwas chasing uh third and fourth
place.
And uh when I when I finallyfigured I I can get these guys,
I'm going down the frontstraightaway, and I have a
(04:35):
couple laps to go, and uh andI'm passing both, you know,
those third and fourth placeboats, and lo and behold, uh I
think it was Pan Pac andBudweiser were right in front of
them.
I said, Well shit, I could getthese guys too.
So I ended up passing everybody,and so I spun out, hooked it,
(04:58):
went in the infield, came out,didn't get disqualified, came
out last, and uh ran a few morelaps, passed third and fourth,
and and then I passed first andsecond and ended up winning the
heat.
And then, of course, the nextheat I won also, so I was seated
for the final, and then when weyou know, Jim Kirth was my
(05:19):
engine guy and and chiefmechanic and then and crew
chief, and when we put the boatin the water, somehow or another
in our haste, the throttleMorris throttle cable got uh too
close to the turbocharger and itseized up, so I had no foot
throttle, so we never left thedock.
So basically that 74 year I hadtwo firsts, okay?
(05:39):
Now we'll fast forward to 75,1975.
Uh and we're still, you know,we're still having some teething
problems with the engine, but Iwon all three heats in 75, and
that was my first victory, theGarwood Trophy race.
SPEAKER_01 (05:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:56):
And then we went out to Tri-Cities, okay, for the
Gold Cup in 1975.
And think about this.
I had the fastest 60 mile race,it's a historic performance in
1975, and I won the final heat.
(06:18):
But PanPac won the race on bonuspoints.
So we really changed the sport.
You know, uh the the Pan Pacfinal heat, all his 60 mile heat
averages uh were 107.379.
And my all my four heatstogether, the 60 miles, were
(06:42):
108.924.
So almost 109 mile, almost twomile an hour faster than George
Henley.
And I won the final heat, but Ididn't win the race.
So the officials went, I mean,think about this.
I had the fastest 60 miles ofthat weekend, and I won the
final heat, but not the race.
(07:02):
So they changed the rules sothat next year in 76, no matter
what kind of points you had,winner of the final heat was
going to win the race.
Okay, so that the Miss US reallydid change the sport.
SPEAKER_01 (07:18):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
And we changed the sport because of what happened
in 75.
SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
And you can even look that up in the rule book.
It's a gold 60 mile historicperformance.
So the 1976 APBA rule book hasthat in there in the center of
this section.
Uh under historic performance,got you know, George Simon, Mish
U.S.
Tom D 108.924 miles an houraverage for 60 mile.
Was at that time the fastest 60mile race ever run.
(07:48):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
Gosh, that's so that's so wild to think about
that you you won that last heatand you didn't get the victory.
SPEAKER_02 (07:56):
I've only I've only actively run in seven gold cups,
period.
Remember uh 77 to 82.
Uh I was uh Muncie did a reallygood job of keeping me out of
the sport.
He in fact, I'll give you a astory.
Um for some reason or other,Muncy either didn't like my
father or me, or both.
SPEAKER_01 (08:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
But he went out, he Muncy raced off the race course
as well as on the race course.
SPEAKER_01 (08:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (08:24):
And he was very close with George Simon for many
years, and I was the newbie.
So Lee Shayneth and George Simonand Muncy, you know, they all
went out to dinner.
This was before the 76 Gold Cup.
Okay.
And uh George Simon told me thispersonally.
He says, uh Bill wants you outof the sport.
He says, You're a troublemaker.
(08:47):
And you should you should getrid of this guy now.
And George says, Oh, really?
You know, thank goodness Georgedidn't do that.
And uh George told me the story,and Joe also corroborated it,
Joe Simon, his brother.
So Muncie didn't like me.
In fact, if you look at the 76Gold Cup CBS Sports Spectacular,
(09:10):
whenever you ever seen someonethat wins the race never gets an
interview.
You never see what that personlooks like.
SPEAKER_01 (09:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
CBS Sports Spectacular, Muncie was in
charge with Hendrick, JimHendrick, you know, and Pat
Summerall.
And it is obvious there's nointerview with me in that whole
CBS Sports Spectacular show, nofacial shot, nothing of Tom D,
(09:41):
the winner of the race.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
Yeah.
Jesus.
SPEAKER_02 (09:44):
You'll see me jump in the water at the end, and
that's you, but you'll neveryou'll they never interviewed me
after the race.
They there was and that wasMuncie.
SPEAKER_01 (09:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
Like I said, he was successful.
In 77, I never got a call fromanybody.
So when George retired, he wassuccessful keeping me out of the
sport until he was killed.
Wow.
Wow.
Think about it.
77.
I I finished second in highpoints in 76, won the Gold Cup,
and my phone never rang.
SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Yeah, that's just wild.
I was always cu I was alwayscurious, like because you had
that gap there.
I didn't I wasn't sure if youwere changing it, because I know
you did some car racing, someother things, but I was just
kind of that's just wild.
SPEAKER_02 (10:27):
Yeah, I was kind of playing with the car racing a
little bit, and I ended up doingWorld Grand Prix Hydroplane.
That was that was new takingoff, and we had a full field of
uh uh World Grand Prix withCanada and the United States,
and so I drove and set I won Ionly raced in World Grand Prix
(10:48):
Championship three years.
I won it all three years withtwo different teams, 78, 79, and
80.
And we had a nice circuit and wemade money.
I mean, it was two grand, youknow, at that time it was two
thousand bucks to win.
So I got all expenses paid plusforty percent of the prize
money.
So it was another way for me topick up some income, you know,
(11:09):
once my career was apparentlyover with and unlimited, you
know.
And then uh I didn't drive uh uhthe team I drove for when I won
everything at 78.
Um I didn't drive for them in 79and 80, I drove for Don Ryan
out, you know, from Bellingham,Washington.
Total different vote, totaldifferent team.
(11:29):
And I won the championship forDon two years in a row.
Yeah.
So I basically ran World GrandPrix drive uh, you know,
hydroplane, APBA and CBF,Canadian Boating Federation, and
I won the championship um threeyears in a row with two
different teams.
SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
And I won Valley Field, I only raced Valleyfield
three times.
That's this weekend coming up.
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_02 (11:56):
I only raced there three different times, two
different teams, and I woneverything there was to win.
I won the Grand Prix and theMolson uh all three years.
Wow.
Yeah, and I won the CanadianGold Cup, uh Prince Edward
Canadian Gold Cup, 74, 76, and80, and I did that with two
different teams.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
Yeah.
Yeah, and you're the you're theonly person to have won those
races as well as uh three APBAGold Cups.
So you're in the record booksthere by yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (12:25):
And not only that, I did in 76.
I won the Prince Edward Gold Cupand the APBA Gold Cup same year.
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Man.
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
And I won those gold cups with a sm uh a five-liter,
266 fuel injected on methanol302 cubic inch motor against
Grand Prix and seven liters.
You know, that's a whole that'sa whole nother really cool
story.
SPEAKER_01 (12:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:50):
But we did it by outsmarting them.
Not we weren't the fastest, butwe outsmarted them big time.
We we made them look really bad.
SPEAKER_00 (12:59):
Well, how did you outsmart them?
What what what did you do tomake that happen?
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
When when we uh it was the team was the gone heavy
was the boat, Ronnie Brown'sboat, and his band.
We borrowed a motor from Lunudafrom the Roman Candle 302 Chevy
that David Irwin put together.
And we got to the race courseand uh we looked at it said mile
and two-thirds of not approvedfor records.
(13:24):
Not approved for records.
Okay.
And Ronnie and I, we had onepropeller, one gearbox, one
borrowed engine, etc.
We were just the three of us,Ronnie, um, you know, David
Irwin and myself.
And we all looked at the racecourse and I said, Ronnie, I
said, I don't think that's amile and two-thirds.
I says, and it it looks reallyshort.
(13:45):
And I says, uh, what can we do?
And he says, Well, we don't havebut just what we got.
And I says, What's what kind ofgears are in the gearbox?
And he says, Well, what what wasin there when I bought the boat,
six percent overdrive.
And I says, let's flip them.
What?
And I says, Yeah, let's sixpercent.
(14:07):
We need acceleration here.
We don't need anything else butacceleration.
It's a big body of water, it'sprobably gonna get a little
lumpy.
I says, let's just flip thegears.
Well, we'll float the valves.
I said, Well, you tell David toopen up the valve lash, do our
his magic on the engine, buttell him we're probably gonna
float the valves, but dosomething that'll get us more
acceleration.
(14:27):
So we pulled the gearbox outduring the driver's meeting, we
flipped the gears upside down,so we were six percent
underdrive, and we only had a19-12-19 pitch propeller, but I
mean it would go blinding fastfrom nothing to you know 130 at
least, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (14:44):
And uh and on every straightaway I floated the
valves three times, and we wonwe won the Prince Edward Gold
Cup, beating guess who?
His father.
His dad protested, he protestedhis own son.
He thought we had a 450 in thereinstead of a 302, you know.
But his dad had a 473 blownChrysler with Bill Hodge driving
(15:08):
it, and and he they had 50%overdrive, and and but they
couldn't get that big hoggetting going, and and one I
could hear him coming, you know,but I was already in the
turnhead the other way.
So that's how we won the 76Prince Edward Gold Cup.
SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
That's funny.
Well, it's always fun tooutsmart your opponents with
whatever with whatever you can,right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:32):
Yep.
So uh and again, you know, Idon't get a lot of credit for
uh, you know, some of thatstuff, but I've I I did race in
all these different series, andI didn't even race in 11, you
know, Chips won what, 11 goldcups?
I only raced in seven, and I wonfour final heats, and I actually
(15:54):
won three.
SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (15:56):
You can look at my record.
I only I only actually competedin seven gold cups, period.
SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Yeah, it's I you know I forget forget that
because there were you had ayear there, I think in 86 where
you you weren't allowed to racein the gold cup um because the
team didn't travel to Miami.
So yeah, there was some otherfactors there outside of your
own.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Yeah, the owners, yeah.
The owners kept us out of thesport because we were a threat.
There's no doubt we were athreat.
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:23):
I mean that we we almost won Evansville.
One more, one more bottle ofnitrous.
I would have won Evansville.
SPEAKER_00 (16:30):
Yeah, that's that's another story.
I want I want to talk about the86 um yeah Evansville, because
yeah, you you showed them thatyou you had something there with
that Merlin and you had all theturbines behind you at 7-Eleven,
Miller, Budweiser, you had thembeat.
Um probably one of the one ofthe better starts he ever had.
Not that you had a bad start,but you smoked them, but simply
(16:54):
just simply the fact that youran out of nitrous.
SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
Yeah, um right at the end there, I I did, you
know, and when you run out ofnitrous, you still when you hit
the button, you run out ofnitrous, but you're still
injecting water alcohol into themotor.
And of course, as soon as I hitthe button and there was no
nitrus, it the motor quit for alittle bit.
You know, it's ow, and then it Itook my thumb off the button and
it's clearing itself out.
(17:19):
And and of course Cropfield wascoming, he was coming every lap.
Um I'm gonna back up a littlebit because how I got the
beautiful start.
I had been watching every heatall day long uh on the bank and
this uh and every time, youknow, because Cropfield and all
them guys, they were allfighting each other in the
(17:40):
five-minute period.
And when they got to the exit ofthe corner before, you know, 3-4
corner, every time they driftedto the outside and left that
lane open every heat.
And I kind of said to myself,you know, I'll just hang behind
those guys, let them do their,you know, their dog and pony
(18:03):
show, and whoever thinks theygot the inside, if they do
exactly what they did in theprevious heats, they're gonna
hit the exit pin and drift wideand leave that lane open.
That's exactly what happened.
They hit that that exit pin, uh,you know, Chip and Bud and and
(18:25):
Reynolds and uh and the thewhole fleet kind of drift
because they were early, so theyall kind of went wide.
And I was back in their roostertails, and I'll tell you what,
when I got to my timing mark, uhthey were way ahead of me and
slow.
And of course I got on thenitrous and I had a thunder pump
and run all the way to the clockand I hit my mark just perfect.
(18:47):
And and of course, uh from thenon it was defensive driving.
Go in wide, come out tight, goin tight, come out wide, be
unpredictable.
I knew they were gonna comebecause they were faster.
But uh you know, I guess I heldthem off for four laps.
Um quite honestly, uh as soon asI crossed the start-finish line
(19:09):
in second place after Bud gotme, I didn't hardly go five
hundred feet and the re theother two got me too, you know.
But the race was over.
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (19:19):
So it was fun to keep them behind me for as long
as I did.
And and um, you know, uh theother thing I'm proud of that
year is we never heard a motor.
We never we didn't cost BobStyles anything but nitrous and
aviation fuel and water alcohol.
Uh we never even heard of sparkplug, nothing.
SPEAKER_00 (19:41):
That's that's almost unheard of, right?
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
We ran we ran uh you know four races that year and
pretty much any second at everyrace, you know.
So it was it was Jim Harvey wasuh you know, nothing against
Jerry Zuvich, because that's whoI won a couple races with in the
earlier squire, which was a dog.
But uh, but I mean uh Zuvich'smotors were fast, but there was
(20:08):
Bardall blood all over the deckand in the bilge every time I
came back.
When I drove for Harvey there,those few races that I drove
those two years, you could youknow, you could wipe up the
bilge with two paper towels.
Wow.
And I and those motors that thatI got from Jim Harvey were just
(20:29):
bullets.
Uh every time he sent me out,and every time we ran, he would
take that motor out and put adifferent one in, you know.
He had his routine of uh what wedid, but uh he was he was really
something to to be a driver for.
I really enjoyed my time withZuvich and Harvey, but Harvey
(20:50):
was by far the cagest and thesmartest.
And we brought the steel skininto the sport, you know.
Um I don't know if you rememberthat, but Lasera was banned from
boat racing because of some sortof deal that was going on with
uh Fran Muncie and Bill Bennettwith Circus and stuff like that.
(21:10):
So he was like being sued orsomething, and and I was doing a
steel skid pin back in the eastwith our limited inboard
hydroplanes.
Willard Wilson and I were wereworking on and we did that and
was really successful with it inthe small classes.
And I was telling Jim Harvey weneed to get a steel skid pin,
and he said, Well, I I can't dothat.
(21:31):
And I said, Well, who who do youthink can?
And he says, Well, I could Icould get a hold of Sarah, maybe
he could get it done.
And I was telling him how we didit because you don't want to
heat treat it, you you know, uh,until uh you you got to do the
blanching grinding after theheat treating because it's the
tougher way to do it.
You can sharpen and all thatkind of stuff to steel, but if
(21:54):
you heat treat it, then it'sgonna warp.
You follow me?
SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:57):
So you had to do the blanchard grinding after it was
already hard.
So basically, I sent out toHarvey uh, you know, a paper
drawing of what I thought weneeded to do, and he relayed
that to Jim Lasero, who actuallymade the fin, and then uh we
brought it in secretly, youknow, because Lasero wasn't
(22:20):
allowed in the pit area.
And so between Harvey Lacero andmyself, we mounted that steel
skid fin on there, and boy, didthat make a difference.
I mean, it you know, I wasalmost the beat Han Hour uh
again with uh the first timeanybody ever used a steel skid
(22:40):
fin.
SPEAKER_00 (22:42):
Wow.
And that must have been 85, 86,somewhere around there.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
Yeah, I 86, I believe.
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Yeah, 86, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:49):
It was 86.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Yeah, and you talk you talked about Harvey with his
engines, and um, I'm too youngfor it, but uh everyone I've
talked to back in the day saidthat like in '86, those motors
just had a different sound tothem.
They were just on another level.
SPEAKER_02 (23:03):
Um hundred percent.
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's just so cool tothink back on.
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Yeah, and we did have Dax uh flowing our water
alcohol system, you know.
But Jim had all the connectionswith everybody because of the
Atlas, you know, when he wasdoing the Atlas stuff for Chip,
you know.
Right.
And so, but uh Dexter Smith,Dax, I call him, uh he he, you
know, uh did the alcohol uhwater system and the flowing of
(23:34):
that with the nitrous.
Uh when we started out in thatseason, they gave me two bottles
of nitrous, which I guess is wasthe normal for a Merlin.
And uh and then when we ran out,we went to three bottles.
And then when we ran out afterthree, we went to four bottles
(23:55):
of nitrous.
And I still ran out.
So Jim told me I never used somuch damn nitrous in my whole
life with anybody, you know.
And he was screw cheap.
And for a lot of guys that werepretty sharp with Merlin
engines, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
But I figured out a way to, you know, I wasn't
abusing the motor, but I againthe Ray Gastner, don't let the
boat do anything or the motor doanything it doesn't like.
So I would tickle the nitrous,and I could I could tell, tickle
by just touching the button alittle bit at a time, you know.
And I'd watch the manifoldpressure on the RPM.
(24:35):
And uh and I could tell by doingthat that I could get the most
acceleration, keep the prophooked up in the water uh by
doing that, and hence it wasn'treally hard on the motor, and
then when you were halfway downthe straightaway, you could
relax your thumb off of thenitrous button, and then you
could tell whether you were itwas slowing down or not, you
(24:56):
know.
Maybe at the halfway point tothe 5/8 point of the
straightaway, I could take mythumb off of the nitrous button,
and then the RPM would still bethere and it it wasn't slowing
me down.
And I didn't have to get back onthe nitrous button again until
near the exit of the nextcorner, and then I would just
tickle the button a little bitand I could tell that I'm too
(25:18):
close to 120 inches, so I can'tgive it too much, you know.
So I guess that's the reasonthat I probably use more nitrous
than anybody else did.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Yeah.
Well it it was fun.
Yeah, that's uh that'simpressive though.
Like you said, you didn't blowup any motors, didn't hurt any
equipment, and no, and you'reyou're out there just you're
concentrating on racing, butyou're doing all these other
things, so it's quite impressiveto to think back on.
SPEAKER_02 (25:45):
Yeah, and and uh and the Harvey, you know, uh that
was the 82 Atlas, you know.
It no wonder chip won with thatthing, it was really a sweet
boat to drive.
Even in the milling period, itdidn't have any bad habits.
You know, some of the boats thatyou get into, um, you could tell
right away if they they havesome bad habits, uh you know,
(26:08):
even at the slower speeds, youknow, but uh that particular
boat didn't really have any badhabits anywhere.
SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
Yeah.
unknown (26:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (26:16):
Well, I want to I want to go back to to you Miss
US had another question for youwith that.
And I heard stories that youknow once he got his gold cup,
he decided he was done with thesport.
Is that true?
Is that is that why he exited?
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:30):
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
In fact, we partied at GeorgeSimon's home on Vendome in in
Grove Point until five o'clockthat morning, and basically and
he told me that uh even when Ihired on.
Remember, I was the team managerand the driver.
After the 73 season, he hadgotten rid of everybody, and
(26:50):
that's when he he hired me to bethe team manager and driver.
But anyway, when he when I hiredon in 74, uh, because he was
kind of against the cab over.
He wanted to have the motor infront of the driver, you know.
He really everybody in theunlimited sport really was kind
of a against the cab over.
But anyway, uh he told me thenif we ever his goal was to win a
(27:14):
gold cup, and if we ever won agold cup, that'd be the happiest
day of both of our lives, andprobably the saddest day for
mine because he would quit.
At five o'clock in the morning,he told us to get everything
back to the shop and lock it up,we're done.
And Lee Shayneth and Buddy Byersand maybe even Bernie Little uh
(27:36):
talked him into not quitting uhbecause the boat needed to be uh
finished the season.
Remember, George Simon neverlost a driver.
Right, right.
Never lost a driver.
So he was uh very much in tuneto that.
He didn't want to be uh he lostfriends that were driving for
(27:59):
other people.
Donnie Wilson drove for GeorgeSimon and was killed in the
Budweiser, you know.
Right.
But uh he never lost a driverand he was really conscious of
he wanted to leave the sport asa gold cup champion because he
won everything else at leastonce, you know, uh all over the
country.
And but he never won that goldcup until then.
SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
So well that's that's a great way to go out
with uh the Gold Cup victory.
SPEAKER_02 (28:24):
Yeah, and uh like I said, uh between Lee Shayneth
and Buddy Byers, who I think wasthe head of the sport, and
Bernie Little maybe.
Uh you know, they kind ofconvinced him that he re So we
didn't really have much to go toMadison with the next race,
which was the next weekend.
(28:46):
The bottom of the Miss US wasall paved in at the at the
transom.
Uh I mean I had to I had to takeit over to the machinery mart
and flip it upside down and anduh fix the bottom while uh and
we only had one motor left thatwas good, which was the one that
we had in the final heat, youknow.
SPEAKER_01 (29:04):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:05):
And I'm gonna give a lot of credit to to uh Jim Kerf.
He wasn't on our team at thattime, but Jim Kirth was the one
that uh between him and I we dida lot of dyno work over at
Gales.
And uh really the basis forthose engines was developed by
Jim Kerf.
(29:25):
And all uh Ronnie was a greatcrew chief, don't get me wrong,
Ronnie Brown.
Oh, yeah, and Dave Irvin was agreat mechanic, but we basically
uh improved a little bit on whatJim had already done, if you
know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01 (29:39):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
I was in charge of the propellers, I was in charge
of the hull, I was in charge ofthe gearboxes.
That was my part of it when Iwasn't driving, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
So Well, I I didn't realize this until the the
magics of internet and Facebook,but um I saw a picture of the
U.S.
sinking in the Detroit River.
River.
And apparently there was anafter-year celebration where
crew members got to drive theboat and someone either rolled
it or flipped it.
(30:09):
Were you there for that?
That last year?
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Yes, I was.
We did that on Harson's Islandand uh in front of Jack Love's
Cottage.
Uh we launched a boat at mydad's marina, and George always
uh uh prided himself on neverlosing a driver, but he also
wanted to reward uh the peoplethat were on the team if they
were interested to take the boatfor a ride.
(30:33):
And we purposely, Ronnie and Ipurposely did not let David
Irwin drive the boat until thelast.
And we even shorted him on fuel.
We thought that you know,because the boat carried 75
gallons on each side of methanolplus whatever is in the surge
tank.
And so we didn't fill it up, weput 50 gallons in, which is like
(30:56):
half a load, you know.
Because we knew David wasn'tgonna listen to us, and we
figured we'll run him out offuel before he does anything
stupid.
We were wrong.
He did something stupid andcrashed a boat.
He turned it the wrong way.
Uh right in front of he wreckedin front of the Coast Guard base
on Harson's Island.
And uh Yeah, he went actually wetold him where he could run
(31:20):
right in front of us.
And when he got to the end of uhJack Love's cottage there, uh
there's a dog leg that heads outtoward Lake St.
Clair.
We're we're in the in the uhnorth channel of the St.
Clair Flats area, not intoDetroit River.
SPEAKER_01 (31:37):
Oh, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02 (31:38):
And so he made it like a half a turn, and at the
apex, we could tell that heturned to the right a little bit
and he went straight out to thelake, and we saw nothing but a
rooster tail uh above the bullrushes heading out toward Lake
St.
Clair.
And Ronnie and I looked at eachother and went, Oh shit.
You know.
And so he went out in the lake,and the the chief at the Coast
(32:01):
Guard base told us this becausewe couldn't see anymore.
He just disappeared, you know,all we saw was the rooster tail
uh heading out toward Lake St.
Clair.
And then so we kind of waited,waited, and we couldn't hear it
anymore.
And he actually turned aroundout in the lake the correct way
to the left, and then on the wayback, the dog leg is the wrong
(32:22):
way.
You have to turn to the right tomake it back to where we were,
okay.
And according to what the chieftold us is that he tried to make
that turn by that littlelighthouse and to the right, and
of course it it flipped, itbarrel rolled.
Yep.
(32:42):
So he's the one that crashed it.
I do have still shots of it uhin my scrapbook, uh, and we've
never really released those toanybody, to my knowledge.
Uh, but there could have beensome other people that took
pictures of it, but it wasdefinitely wrecked.
And Ronnie and I uh the seasonwas over with, and of course
(33:04):
Ronnie Brown and I were kept onemployment to uh fix it and get
it ready for sale, you know.
And we had to inventory all themotor parts, gearbox,
propellers, all that kind ofstuff for George Simon, and then
and then he let us both go.
And uh uh the boat eventuallywas picked up by Bernie Little.
(33:25):
And uh he he was gonna put thegriffin in, but it wouldn't fit.
And so uh the bud uh you knowthe Ron Jones bud got built and
the mission tests never racedagain, really.
It became a display boat.
SPEAKER_00 (33:40):
Yeah, yeah, it never ran again.
SPEAKER_02 (33:42):
It's yeah, it went through different colors and um
yeah, no it never ran again asuh you know as an unlimited
hydroplane that I know ofanyway.
SPEAKER_01 (33:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:52):
Will Muncing did something, but I think that was
his own little that wasn't theunlimited sanction uh racing.
It was Will Munsing didsomething with the boat, but I
don't remember exact I wasn'tout there, so I really don't
can't comment.
I don't know.
But I don't think it ever racedagain as a real unlimited
hydroblane.
SPEAKER_00 (34:12):
No, I don't I don't believe it did as well.
SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Well, yeah, unfortunate end to your time
there with that crash, but thatwas out of your hands.
Isn't it crazy to think back in1976 as a crew member?
You win the gold cup.
Your time as a as a team isover.
George Simon pulls the plugwinning that gold cup, but he
celebrates by letting all thecrew members go out on the
(34:37):
Detroit River and get a chanceto drive the high defense that
they've been working years on.
And unfortunately, the lastpersonnel goes and wrecks it,
and that's how the team endstheir time together.
So wow, thankfully, no one washurt in that story.
But unfortunately for us, that'sall the time we have for this
week, knock ahead.
Make sure you come back nextweek and listen to episode 157
(35:00):
and part two of my interviewwith Tom Feed.
In the meantime, don't forget tocheck us out on social media,
we're on Facebook and Instagram,and we're also online with our
website Richardtalk.com.
On there, you can find out manyfun features of the podcast.
And you can also find out forRichard Talk Plus, uh premium
subscription phase service.
(35:21):
We get early access to all thisepisode and lots of other fun
tweets and prizes along the way.
Well, that's all we have for thetweet.
So until next time, I hope tosee you.
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