October 28, 2025 • 34 mins
From the Squire Shop highs and a path toward a championship to the uneasy birth of a Miller-backed program, the story tracks the shift from piston power to turbines. What ties everything together is the human calculus. Owners with leverage, marketers with favorites, crew chiefs who can translate risk into speed, each choice nudges fate. Tom talks retirement in ’86, but it wasn’t surrender; it was a clear-eyed call to stop making a boat do what it hates. And yet, when the phone rang, he returned on his terms, navigated fear in a capsule he never wanted but pushed through to a rivalry that still gives the sport goosebumps. If this ride grabbed you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more fans can find it.
*Photo from the Scott D'Eath collection
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
He had a couple years of styles 82, 83 that time
period.
And then 84 you joined RBT team.
And he had a new boat.
Light All-Star was on board as asponsor.
Lutera built a brand new boatand they had a new turbine
package that was experimental atthe time because it wasn't the
(02:33):
same turbine that other teamswere using.
Could you talk a little bitabout that experience and that
experiment?
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Let me back up a little bit because like I was
out at uh Green Lake running DonRyan's seven liter.
Okay.
Remember, it's 77 till 82.
I didn't have a ride, okay?
Correct.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
And uh I just set a world record uh with Don Ryan's
boat in the H class.
We had already won the GrandPrix stuff, and Don didn't want
to do that anymore, so we putthe smaller motor in to run
seven liter out west.
And I flew in and and set aworld record at GreenLake in
that class.
And uh Jerry Zuvich and and uhKelly Stockland came up to me
(03:21):
and we're just BSing in the pitsafter you know we ran the seven
liter on GreenLake and set therecord and they said uh are you
retired from unlimited racing?
And I says, uh, no, why?
He says, Well, how come you'renot this is Zubic talking?
He says, How come you're notdriving unlimited?
(03:42):
I said, Nobody's ever asked me.
He said, You're kidding me.
And I said, No, I'm not kiddingyou.
He says, Well, would youconsider driving the squire
shop?
And I says, uh, if the money'sright, I would, yeah.
I don't drive for nothing.
And uh so that's how the squireride um, you know, I drove for
(04:05):
them in '82.
Now I don't know if you rememberthis or not, but and I won a
couple races and I was headingfor a good championship, but the
accident happened, you know, uh,George Johnson, I think, in the
executone, who shouldn't havebeen on the race course in the
first place.
He never had enough experienceto be an unlimited driver, but
(04:27):
that's a whole nother story.
Anyway, at the end of thatseason, 82 season, um I dealt
through Adam and Molly Berger,who were running Squire Shop
stores.
I very had very little contactwith Bob Steil, um, other than
hello, how are you, and stufflike that, you know.
Um, but I thought I did a goodjob for him.
(04:48):
But Earl Hall came in with 40,John Love uh represented Earl,
and Earl Hall was from the EastCoast, and he brought$40,000 to
the squire shops.
And so if you remember 83, theystarted the season with Earl
Hall until he blew up all theirmotors.
And uh Adam and Molly keptcalling me because I didn't have
(05:12):
a ride in '83, see?
And uh so they said, Would youdrive for us?
And I said, Yeah, but youalready got a drive.
Well, he's wrecking everythingthat Bob has, and the forty
thousand dollars he gave Bob toget that ride isn't quite, you
know, covering the damage.
And so, and I said, Well, youknow, I've already got a deal
(05:32):
for next year, so I could Icould only run uh probably a
couple races for you guys.
And so I drove San Diego andClear Lake, Texas, and that's
that's all I drove in '83 forSquire Shop, was the same boat,
but those two races.
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Okay.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
And then the '84 thing, uh, back then everybody
was pitching the Miller BrewingCompany, including me, to buy
all the pay impact stuff tobecome uh the Miller racing
team.
Okay.
Uh that's that's really uh Imean, you can edit a lot of
(06:10):
this, but I'm gonna tell you thetruth, okay?
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I appreciate the truth.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Yeah.
Um RB Bob Taylor went to schoolwith a guy named Sam Bell Navis,
a black guy.
Sam Bell Navis was the head ofsports marketing at the Miller
Brewing Company.
So, unbeknownst to anybody, um,R.B.
Bob Taylor had an inn with SamBell Navis.
(06:38):
Okay, and that's how thesponsorship happened.
I pitched my deal uh um tobecome, you know, the Miller
team.
And when they pitched theirdeal, they did not have a driver
assigned to their program.
And Tom Kleiber at SportsMarketing and JJ Shields were
(07:00):
the guys that knew about me, andI was pitching to be buy all the
pay and pack stuff and be myowner driver uh type of
operation, okay?
And that didn't happen.
So they gave the sponsorship tos to RB Bob Taylor with one
(07:21):
condition that because theyliked me and they knew about me,
you don't have a driver assignedto your team.
So we would like to have youhave Tom Death become the driver
of your team.
I was very skeptical, to behonest with you.
I heard all the details, SamCole was going to be the team
(07:41):
manager, so that gave me a kindof a crawly feeling up my back,
you know.
Good reason.
And so anyway, uh I agreed, butI agreed, uh I veered away from
my normal uh contracts.
I said, I will do that, but I II don't want any prize money.
(08:06):
I just in my contract I want tobe available to drive at every
race, and I would want aguaranteed flat fee plus
expenses.
And they agreed to that.
So I became the highest paidspectator in the history of the
sport.
I got paid whether the boat ranor not.
(08:28):
And I did that because I knew itwas a new team and they didn't
have any experience withturbines, and I heard about the
GE motor they were going to use,and they hired Jerry Zuvich as
crew chief, which I thinkJerry's a great guy and a great
crew chief.
But uh, and then the the otherproblem, and you don't even know
this, but the other problem wasthere were three boats Lacera
(08:51):
was supposed to be building thatwinter.
unknown (08:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
One for Executone for a Rolls-Royce Merlin, and
the other two were one for R.B.
Bob Taylor and the other one forthemselves.
Okay, well, the two ladder hullswere uh have less bow rides
because they were for turbineengines.
Sam Cole gave so much havoc toJim Lasero that Jim said, screw
(09:16):
it, give him the goddamn boatfor the Merlin, which they did.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
The the Miller light boat was actually the boat that
was built and came off the linefirst, and that was supposed to
be, you know, for a Merlinengine.
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
And so we got that boat, and uh it it was a scary
running boat at 135 miles anhour, let alone when Budweiser
made it a faster scary road.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Yeah, that was always an ill-handling boat,
wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
Right.
So let me back up a little bit,because I quit the team before
it even got started.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
I went out there two or three times and I did drive
uh the Merlin part, I think thePerdelco, they bought that just
to do show and tell.
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
Right and I went to Clear Lake and I ran that boat
just in a test session uh sothey could do a photo shoot, you
know, for their giveaway stuff.
And because obviously theturbine boat wasn't done yet.
And anyway, hardly anything wentto plan.
Sam Cole was in charge, needlessto say.
(10:28):
So I decided, because I'msitting around there twiddling
my thumb for day after day afterday, I told uh RB Bob Taylor, I
said, Look, and I'm gonna needsome dress clothes and stuff
because we're gonna, you know,the we had banquets and all that
kind of stuff, you know, to douh during racing season and at
the end.
And I was a little shy on sportcoats and blazers and stuff.
(10:50):
So I says, Is there a men'sstore around here?
Well I'm just sitting heretwiddling my thumbs.
Can I and he gave me a name of aplace.
So I went there and I bought asuit and a sport blazer and flax
and stuff like that.
It was, I don't know, over athousand dollars, but less than
two thousand dollars worth ofclothes.
Now I bought this stuff and putit on my credit card, and we
(11:13):
never did test the boat, and Ipacked up all my stuff because
they racing season was coming,and we're gonna do the first
test at the first race then, notin Clear Lake.
So I went home, okay, and I gotsomeone from sports marketing to
give me a call.
I can't remember her name, andshe was trying to verify.
(11:34):
Now, mind you, I bought thisstuff and paid for it with my
own credit card and went home.
Sam Cole went to the same men'sstore and got duplicate invoices
and back charged the MillerBrewing Company.
It was a small tip of theiceberg.
(11:56):
Wow.
They were doing the same thingwith painting the trailers, the
trucks, the boat.
They were double dipping and gotcaught.
And Sam Bel Navis was approving,the guy from sports marketing
that went to college with R.B.
Bob Taylor, was approving thechecks.
(12:17):
When I called Tom Kleiber, whowas the only person I trusted in
the Miller Brewing Company, andtold them that I don't want to
be any part of this after theyoung lady called me to verify
that my clothes they werewriting a check to Bob Taylor
for the clothes I bought andpaid for.
(12:38):
And I said, Well, that's it.
I told Tom Fiber, I'm done.
You guys go get yourself a newdriver.
I won't be involved in anythinglike this, a bunch of bullshit.
I'm out of here.
This looks like a bunch of hocuspocus crap anyway.
I don't think the thing is evergonna fly.
So and he convinced me, please,Tom, don't quit.
Don't quit.
It's bigger than what you know,and just bear with me.
(13:00):
We'll be we'll be okay with you,we'll be loyal to you.
And so he talked me out ofquitting, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
So I stayed with the team.
They took me to Europe, and ofcourse, the rest is history.
They pulled the plug on R.
B.
Bob Taylor.
They were all told you either dothis or you're going to jail.
And they fired Samuel.
Yeah.
Sam Cole had to leave rightafter Madison because he was
(13:29):
instrumental in the doubledipping.
It would be too much of anembarrassment for Miller and you
know, to have the truth comeout.
SPEAKER_00 (13:39):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
That's what happened.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Wow.
Wow.
That's uh sad to hear that.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Yep.
And of course, I was in Europewith uh Steve Gerlock, the head
chemist at Miller, uh JJShields, and Bruce Mueller.
These were all people in sportsmarketing.
They invited me to go to Europewith them.
So at the end of the season, youknow, right after Clear Lake was
over with.
And I thought things were goingto be much better for the next
(14:09):
year.
It wasn't gonna be RB Taylor, Iknew that.
But anyway, when JJ used to callback um, you know, to Miller,
you know, about every other day,because we were over there 16
days, and right near the endwhen we were getting ready to,
you know, come home a coupledays before that, he was talking
to Tom Kleiber and and the phoneconversation started to get, oh,
(14:34):
oh, oh, all right, okay, oh welluh to me that was a red flag.
I'm going, oh shit.
They're talking about what'sgoing on.
I'm getting screwed.
And sure enough, they turned thesponsorship over to Lasero Fran
and Chip.
And they stayed in the sport,but Tom was out.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Yeah.
Unfortunate.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
So anyway, well, that's okay.
That's part of uh Fortune 500,you know, company.
I get it, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
You're only as good as as long as you're useful, and
if you're no useful anymore,you're you're kicked to the
curb, you know.
So anyway, I was in Europe whenI kind of got the hint, and as
soon as I got home, then I got acall from Tom Kleiber
apologizing to me.
I know what I told you, I'mawful sorry.
And you you were our guy, youdid such a great job for us, and
(15:30):
you know, um, and all the racesand the PR stuff, and but we
just had to do this.
And okay, no problem.
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah.
Well, I didn't know that youwere you were pitching to to
purchase all the P impact stuff.
That would have been prettyimpressive.
I think I think that would havebeen um that would have been
pretty cool if you had were incharge of that program with that
sponsor.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
There was a there I wasn't the only one that was
doing the same thing.
I mean, there was like, youknow, JJ told me they had like
four proposals all fromdifferent people that were gonna
buy the paint tax stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Got it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Why RB Taylor didn't do that, I don't know.
You know, because it was aviable team and it was running
pretty good.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Right, right.
Well that's too bad.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
And anyway, that didn't happen.
So that's the that's the truthof the light all-star.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
And of course, Bernie Little bought everything
and shit canned the the turbinesand and put Ronnie in charge of
both the you know the uh Griffinprogram and the turban program
and the rest the restlesshistory.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Yeah, and then you got re uh rekindled later on
when he went to Budweiser astheir driver.
We're but you after the 86season, were were you planning
on retiring in 86, or was thatjust I could tell I was probably
gonna kill myself if I didn'tquit.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
Okay.
Uh I could keep you know one ortwo of the turbine boats behind
me, but as you saw that year, Imean, I was uh here here's
always been my philosophy.
Again, let the boat do what itlikes, don't try and make it do
something it doesn't like to do.
I caught myself trying to makethe squire shop do something
(18:21):
that I knew better it shouldn'tbe doing, okay?
And uh and I was doing thatbecause I wanted to prove that
that we could beat the turbines,you know.
And and that became very obviousto me at least that we didn't
have a chance, you know.
I could stay ahead of one or twoof them, but I couldn't stay
(18:44):
ahead of all three of them, youknow.
And both the bud and the millerwere both fast uh on any given
Sunday, you know.
Right.
And so I just decided that, youknow, I don't need to be doing
this, Tom.
You don't need the money.
You certainly don't want to endthe sport dead.
unknown (19:02):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
And so I decided, and after the 86th season, I
gave Bob Steil plenty ofwarning.
By the way, him and I becamevery good friends eventually,
you know, but I gave him thewarning that in at Seattle I'm
going to announce my retirement,which I did.
And I really did thought uh orthink at that time that that was
(19:23):
the end of it, you know.
And the reason being is that Ididn't have a top ride.
Uh Reynolds had one, Cropfieldhad one, Chip had one, you know.
I mean, so the handwriting wason the wall.
It was like, why am I doingthis?
You know, I'm probably gonnakill myself or nothing, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
So and Bob was uh it was a great ride.
I'm glad I drove that boatbecause I had never driven a
Rolls-Royce um boat preparedlike it was prepared for chip,
you know.
And I really got to feel why hewas able to win so many races.
Uh, how could you lose with aboat like that, you know?
It time his it time had it itcame and went, you know.
(20:06):
And so uh I just said, you know,I I can do other stuff, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
So that's when I told Bob.
And and if you remember, uh, Igave kind of my farewell at
Seattle, never thinking I wasever gonna come back.
Yeah, so that's the truth onthat deal.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Okay.
Well, you you you didn't leavethe sport for long.
It was a couple years later,Bernie came out.
SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
One year, yeah, basically.
Crapfield got hurt, and thatchanged everything, you know.
Yeah, in 88 he got hurt.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Right.
And how how did Bernie convinceyou to come back?
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
I gotta call it, uh, you know, of course, I wasn't
involved in the sport at all,really, in uh 87.
And in 88, you know, I knew thatthey were running in Miami and
stuff, and and uh two o'clock inthe morning my after Miami, I
knew there was a crash, and Ididn't know how Cropfield was or
uh Scotty Pierce or anything.
(21:00):
I knew there was a crash.
And at two o'clock in themorning my phone rings and wakes
up Judy and I.
We're in Fair Haven, you know.
And uh and you know, Tom, yeah,Jesus Christ, this is Bernie.
What are you doing?
I says, Sound asleep, Bernie.
What the hell are you calling mefor?
(21:22):
God damn it, I need you to drivemy boat next week.
You know how Bernie is.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
So uh I says, why?
What the hell happened?
What what about Jimmy?
Oh, Jimmy's out for the year,you know.
We we we you you know, we gottahave you drive the boat.
I says, Can't we talk about thisin the morning?
Jerry, it's two o'clock in theyou know, call me in the morning
when I digest some of thisstuff, you know.
(21:53):
So the next morning he did calland uh and I said, I won't drive
turbine one, I don't like thatboat.
I says, but if you tell me thatturbine two is gonna be the boat
I'm gonna be driving, the onethat you know Jimmy got run over
in, uh he says, Yeah, we'll haveit fixed, no problem.
Well, that was a lie.
(22:14):
So I had to drive Turbine One atDetroit, and very and I of
course, you know, had to workout the financial details and uh
fly to Lakeland, sign thecontracts, insurance policies,
and all the other happy horseshit you gotta do, you know.
So, but uh and of course uh theykept telling me turbine two was
gonna be ready for Detroit, youknow.
(22:36):
And of course it wasn't, so uh Iwent, oh shit.
Because I didn't like the thecop first of all, I never drove
a can't capsule boat.
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
And I didn't like the capsule that was on turbine
one, the old light all-star.
And uh and when I tested it forthe first time, I'm going
through this claustrophobic, youknow, uh mental part of even
strapping in, because I wasagainst that all the time.
I always drove without belts andall that stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (23:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
So that was all unnerving for me to begin with,
let alone being in Turbine 1,which in my mind was a faster,
scarier boat than it was at 135miles an hour, is all it would
go when it was with a crummy GEmotor in it, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
How how different was it todrive it in 88?
SPEAKER_01 (23:30):
I know you only got to run it that one time, but
yeah, I only ran it in Detroit,and to be honest with you, I was
uh uh really not sure I wannaeven wanted to do this in in in
in any capsule boat.
And so I just kind of bit my lipand got through Detroit and
(23:50):
didn't do very well.
I think I you know, Cropfieldprobably would have done way
better.
I finished like, I don't know,third or fourth, something like
that.
And was scared shitless becauseyou know, usually you gotta
start the season, do somepracticing, get your mental mind
up to the speed you're gonna berunning, and I basically was
thrown into the fire in acapsule boat, ill-handling
(24:13):
bastard that it was, and and andso I was definitely you know
shitting in my knickers.
Pardon the expression.
SPEAKER_00 (24:27):
Oh, you're good.
You're good.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Um we got out of Detroit, thank God, and and I
knew that the the turbine twowas going to be ready, you know,
for Evansville.
And of course, everything wassuper duper until it blew over.
We had a we had a uh the Cannardring act uh there's a sp there's
a the Canard wing is fastened ona shaft, you know.
(24:52):
We I call it an axle, but uh itwas dead soft, and that's why
the boat blew over.
I mean I was fast qualifier.
I'd won the first two heats.
If I'd have won that heat that Iwas leading, um you know chip
wouldn't even have been in thefinal, you know, and he ends up
winning in the surface, youknow.
unknown (25:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
So I ended up being upside down and backwards and in
the hospital for a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
So there's your introduction to racing for bud,
I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
But it really the computer showed that I
accelerated off the con thecorner to 185, and then it
showed I decelerated all the waydown to 157 when it lifted off.
I was trying to do whatever Icould with the you know what I
had to work with.
You don't see the canards.
(25:43):
In other words, I can see theindicators in the cockpit, but
they were set where they werebelong, and and they were only
operated at time with the trimswitches on the steering wheel,
which was really slow.
SPEAKER_02 (25:56):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
So the only thing I could do was try and slow the
thing down.
I knew it was getting loose, butI I was trying to slow the thing
down to not blow it over, and ofcourse it blew over anyway.
Well, come to find out whathappened is the shaft that the
that the canard was on hadtwisted, and uh it was in full
lift position, but it didn'tshow that on the indicators in
(26:20):
the cockpit.
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
So that's what it raised that sponsor and blew
over backwards.
And that's the first time andonly time that ever happened to
me in my whole racing career.
SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
Period.
Yeah.
Well, thankfully it wasn't anenclosed canopy, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
Yeah, well, thank God I was, because otherwise I'd
be dead.
There's no doubt about that.
It wasn't for Ronnie Brown'sreally excellent uh enclosed
cockpit that Lauren Sawyer andRamsey and Reinberger and and uh
you know everybody everybodythat were involved in designing
that boat, which Ronnie was thebiggest part of it, and that
(26:58):
cockpit.
Uh I still think that's the bestenclosed cockpit and why they
went away from that, because ithad roll bars, chrome molly
steel, I mean it had thetrapdoor, it had the F-16
fighter canopy, the way Ronnie,it was pretty cool too, the way
it opened up and stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
Yeah, compared to what they're doing now.
I've I'm I I'm not reallyenthused with ever wanting to
get in one of those cockpits.
I've seen them.
They're meat slicers insidethere.
SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
Yeah, you got no room to move in the in the the
boats now.
SPEAKER_01 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah.
But anyway, that's I'm glad thesport is going the way it's
going because uh I had my timeand I uh thank goodness for the
golden ride.
I you know the only worldchampionship year that I had,
and it was I had to do thatminus one race.
In other words, the boat got itstitle before I did, and I didn't
(27:55):
get mine until the last heat ofthe last race of the year, and
that was when I actually won mydriving championship.
SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
Yeah, yeah, you had your driver championship there,
and then you had a couple moregold cups come up in '89
and '90.
Yeah.
And back to the record books,you're one of only a few people.
I think you, Bill Muncie, andDave Villock are the only ones
to do to win a gold cup in threedifferent decades.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Yes.
And then Bill Walk, obviously,after me.
I never raced against Dave uhever, except in the Southland
sweepstakes.
Uh I think around 1986, he wasin uh he was driving a F-boat,
and I was driving a stock sevenliter, and that's the only time
him and I ever were on the racecourse uh together at the same
(28:45):
time in anything.
SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:48):
Yeah.
I never really drove a stake.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
No, no.
But a really short list, uh,another accomplishment for you
there.
Yeah.
Um, did any of those other goldcups stand out for you?
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
1990.
Uh, you know, I uh first of all,88 was Jim's ride.
I substituted at the end of 88,uh uh, you know, Jim took over
again in '89.
And uh he won a couple of races,I think, before Herman Burney
finally decided to part ways.
(29:22):
And uh and again, not twoo'clock in the morning, but it
was you know, way late at night,and I guess there was a big
shout and match somewhere,either Evansville or Madison,
I'm not sure where it was at,but uh uh Syracuse was the next
race, and it was kind of thenext weekend, and my phone rang
(29:44):
again, and it was Bernie.
And he said, Uh, I I got rid ofCropfield and I want you to
drive my boat.
And I says, Wow, geez, remember,I'm totally away from the race
site, so I don't know what thehell's going on.
And uh, and he says, he says,God damn it, it's either gonna
be you or I'll get somebodyelse.
He said, But I'm not gonna havehim drive anymore.
(30:06):
I'm he's done with him, youknow.
And so I says, Well, I don'twant to take anybody's ride,
it's Jim's ride.
No, it isn't.
I got rid of the little bastard,you know.
I says, Well, I says, if if ifif you want me, I I I love to
work with your people and I'veloved the boat.
And he says, Well, turbine threeis the one that we're we're
gonna be running.
You haven't driven that one yet.
(30:28):
And so then I agreed, and Ronniecalled me, and then of course
Ronnie was telling me the issuesthat they were having with
turbine three, and uh so that'sthe one that I got thrown into
again uh with no experience.
Fortunately for me, Syracusethat year was smooth, beautiful,
(30:50):
smooth water.
And uh because the bow the boathad problems, and uh it bow
steered a lot, had too much leadin the rudder, you couldn't feel
the load on your arms, there's awhole bunch of things.
things.
Cropfield had a little tinysteering wheel in it.
I made them get rid of that andwe had to fly in from Seattle
the stuff that I had in TurbineII to move the steering wheel
(31:12):
back to me and put in a biggersteering wheel and you know a
lot of creature comforts I youknow had to get done.
If you remember in 89, this hasnever been done before or since
J uh uh Chip and I two boats weran both of us over a hundred
and fifty mile an hour average.
(31:34):
First and second.
That's never been done before orsince, to my knowledge.
We ran a heat of racing and Ibeat him by a little bit.
Uh but basically we were deck todeck for the whole heat.
He was on the inside, I was onthe outside and the water was
like a mill pond.
(31:56):
The two boats that were supposedto be in the heat with us they
they couldn't even get started.
Larry Lauderback was one of themI think in the Winston.
But uh both of us ran over 153miles an hour I think was the if
not 153 damn close to it.
And uh but him and I bothtogether.
(32:20):
So he he ran 150 and so did I byjust a smidgen better.
Yeah and so that that's that'son tape.
And that that's that that's youcan go back and look at that
particular heat and that's afact.
We we him and I did thattogether.
It was a pretty awesome race.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Well I've always been curious about the the
differences between the T2 andT3 that you raced but
unfortunately we're gonna haveto wait until next week to find
out what the differences werebetween the T3 and T2 boats uh
Tom got to race with MissBudweiser.
Hope you enjoyed part three andguess what we're gonna get a
(33:01):
fourth part to this interview Italked to Tom for quite an
extensive amount of time.
Really appreciate the time hedevoted to this I'm always
appreciative of everyone havehave on the show but it always
takes a lot of time to gothrough all the questions I have
and whatnot.
And Tom was very generous withhis time.
So thank you Tom for that andhope you look forward to next
(33:21):
week's episode which will be theconclusion of my interview with
Tom to ETH.
And he'll talk more about hisyears at Budweiser racing as
well as his time uh leading thesport in the early 2000s and
talks about Detroit, thepossibility of Gold Cup coming
back and some other fun thingsalong the way.
In the meantime, don't forget tocheck us out on our social media
(33:43):
platforms.
We're on Facebook and Instagramwe're also online at
Roushartelltalk.com and whileyou're on our website don't
forget to check out theRoushitel Talk Plus subscription
based service where you getaccess to special parts of the
website that has historicaldocuments, photographs, early
access to all new episodes, aswell as entry into a monthly
(34:05):
raffle drawing.
But unfortunately for youknuckleheads that's all the time
we have for this week.
So until next time I hope to seeyou at the reading
He had a couple years of styles 82, 83 that time
period.
And then 84 you joined RBT team.
And he had a new boat.
Light All-Star was on board as asponsor.
Lutera built a brand new boatand they had a new turbine
package that was experimental atthe time because it wasn't the
(02:33):
same turbine that other teamswere using.
Could you talk a little bitabout that experience and that
experiment?
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Let me back up a little bit because like I was
out at uh Green Lake running DonRyan's seven liter.
Okay.
Remember, it's 77 till 82.
I didn't have a ride, okay?
Correct.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (02:55):
And uh I just set a world record uh with Don Ryan's
boat in the H class.
We had already won the GrandPrix stuff, and Don didn't want
to do that anymore, so we putthe smaller motor in to run
seven liter out west.
And I flew in and and set aworld record at GreenLake in
that class.
And uh Jerry Zuvich and and uhKelly Stockland came up to me
(03:21):
and we're just BSing in the pitsafter you know we ran the seven
liter on GreenLake and set therecord and they said uh are you
retired from unlimited racing?
And I says, uh, no, why?
He says, Well, how come you'renot this is Zubic talking?
He says, How come you're notdriving unlimited?
(03:42):
I said, Nobody's ever asked me.
He said, You're kidding me.
And I said, No, I'm not kiddingyou.
He says, Well, would youconsider driving the squire
shop?
And I says, uh, if the money'sright, I would, yeah.
I don't drive for nothing.
And uh so that's how the squireride um, you know, I drove for
(04:05):
them in '82.
Now I don't know if you rememberthis or not, but and I won a
couple races and I was headingfor a good championship, but the
accident happened, you know, uh,George Johnson, I think, in the
executone, who shouldn't havebeen on the race course in the
first place.
He never had enough experienceto be an unlimited driver, but
(04:27):
that's a whole nother story.
Anyway, at the end of thatseason, 82 season, um I dealt
through Adam and Molly Berger,who were running Squire Shop
stores.
I very had very little contactwith Bob Steil, um, other than
hello, how are you, and stufflike that, you know.
Um, but I thought I did a goodjob for him.
(04:48):
But Earl Hall came in with 40,John Love uh represented Earl,
and Earl Hall was from the EastCoast, and he brought$40,000 to
the squire shops.
And so if you remember 83, theystarted the season with Earl
Hall until he blew up all theirmotors.
And uh Adam and Molly keptcalling me because I didn't have
(05:12):
a ride in '83, see?
And uh so they said, Would youdrive for us?
And I said, Yeah, but youalready got a drive.
Well, he's wrecking everythingthat Bob has, and the forty
thousand dollars he gave Bob toget that ride isn't quite, you
know, covering the damage.
And so, and I said, Well, youknow, I've already got a deal
(05:32):
for next year, so I could Icould only run uh probably a
couple races for you guys.
And so I drove San Diego andClear Lake, Texas, and that's
that's all I drove in '83 forSquire Shop, was the same boat,
but those two races.
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Okay.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:50):
And then the '84 thing, uh, back then everybody
was pitching the Miller BrewingCompany, including me, to buy
all the pay impact stuff tobecome uh the Miller racing
team.
Okay.
Uh that's that's really uh Imean, you can edit a lot of
(06:10):
this, but I'm gonna tell you thetruth, okay?
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I appreciate the truth.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Yeah.
Um RB Bob Taylor went to schoolwith a guy named Sam Bell Navis,
a black guy.
Sam Bell Navis was the head ofsports marketing at the Miller
Brewing Company.
So, unbeknownst to anybody, um,R.B.
Bob Taylor had an inn with SamBell Navis.
(06:38):
Okay, and that's how thesponsorship happened.
I pitched my deal uh um tobecome, you know, the Miller
team.
And when they pitched theirdeal, they did not have a driver
assigned to their program.
And Tom Kleiber at SportsMarketing and JJ Shields were
(07:00):
the guys that knew about me, andI was pitching to be buy all the
pay and pack stuff and be myowner driver uh type of
operation, okay?
And that didn't happen.
So they gave the sponsorship tos to RB Bob Taylor with one
(07:21):
condition that because theyliked me and they knew about me,
you don't have a driver assignedto your team.
So we would like to have youhave Tom Death become the driver
of your team.
I was very skeptical, to behonest with you.
I heard all the details, SamCole was going to be the team
(07:41):
manager, so that gave me a kindof a crawly feeling up my back,
you know.
Good reason.
And so anyway, uh I agreed, butI agreed, uh I veered away from
my normal uh contracts.
I said, I will do that, but I II don't want any prize money.
(08:06):
I just in my contract I want tobe available to drive at every
race, and I would want aguaranteed flat fee plus
expenses.
And they agreed to that.
So I became the highest paidspectator in the history of the
sport.
I got paid whether the boat ranor not.
(08:28):
And I did that because I knew itwas a new team and they didn't
have any experience withturbines, and I heard about the
GE motor they were going to use,and they hired Jerry Zuvich as
crew chief, which I thinkJerry's a great guy and a great
crew chief.
But uh, and then the the otherproblem, and you don't even know
this, but the other problem wasthere were three boats Lacera
(08:51):
was supposed to be building thatwinter.
unknown (08:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (08:53):
One for Executone for a Rolls-Royce Merlin, and
the other two were one for R.B.
Bob Taylor and the other one forthemselves.
Okay, well, the two ladder hullswere uh have less bow rides
because they were for turbineengines.
Sam Cole gave so much havoc toJim Lasero that Jim said, screw
(09:16):
it, give him the goddamn boatfor the Merlin, which they did.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
The the Miller light boat was actually the boat that
was built and came off the linefirst, and that was supposed to
be, you know, for a Merlinengine.
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
And so we got that boat, and uh it it was a scary
running boat at 135 miles anhour, let alone when Budweiser
made it a faster scary road.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Yeah, that was always an ill-handling boat,
wasn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
Right.
So let me back up a little bit,because I quit the team before
it even got started.
SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
Really?
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
I went out there two or three times and I did drive
uh the Merlin part, I think thePerdelco, they bought that just
to do show and tell.
SPEAKER_02 (10:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (10:08):
Right and I went to Clear Lake and I ran that boat
just in a test session uh sothey could do a photo shoot, you
know, for their giveaway stuff.
And because obviously theturbine boat wasn't done yet.
And anyway, hardly anything wentto plan.
Sam Cole was in charge, needlessto say.
(10:28):
So I decided, because I'msitting around there twiddling
my thumb for day after day afterday, I told uh RB Bob Taylor, I
said, Look, and I'm gonna needsome dress clothes and stuff
because we're gonna, you know,the we had banquets and all that
kind of stuff, you know, to douh during racing season and at
the end.
And I was a little shy on sportcoats and blazers and stuff.
(10:50):
So I says, Is there a men'sstore around here?
Well I'm just sitting heretwiddling my thumbs.
Can I and he gave me a name of aplace.
So I went there and I bought asuit and a sport blazer and flax
and stuff like that.
It was, I don't know, over athousand dollars, but less than
two thousand dollars worth ofclothes.
Now I bought this stuff and putit on my credit card, and we
(11:13):
never did test the boat, and Ipacked up all my stuff because
they racing season was coming,and we're gonna do the first
test at the first race then, notin Clear Lake.
So I went home, okay, and I gotsomeone from sports marketing to
give me a call.
I can't remember her name, andshe was trying to verify.
(11:34):
Now, mind you, I bought thisstuff and paid for it with my
own credit card and went home.
Sam Cole went to the same men'sstore and got duplicate invoices
and back charged the MillerBrewing Company.
It was a small tip of theiceberg.
(11:56):
Wow.
They were doing the same thingwith painting the trailers, the
trucks, the boat.
They were double dipping and gotcaught.
And Sam Bel Navis was approving,the guy from sports marketing
that went to college with R.B.
Bob Taylor, was approving thechecks.
(12:17):
When I called Tom Kleiber, whowas the only person I trusted in
the Miller Brewing Company, andtold them that I don't want to
be any part of this after theyoung lady called me to verify
that my clothes they werewriting a check to Bob Taylor
for the clothes I bought andpaid for.
(12:38):
And I said, Well, that's it.
I told Tom Fiber, I'm done.
You guys go get yourself a newdriver.
I won't be involved in anythinglike this, a bunch of bullshit.
I'm out of here.
This looks like a bunch of hocuspocus crap anyway.
I don't think the thing is evergonna fly.
So and he convinced me, please,Tom, don't quit.
Don't quit.
It's bigger than what you know,and just bear with me.
(13:00):
We'll be we'll be okay with you,we'll be loyal to you.
And so he talked me out ofquitting, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
So I stayed with the team.
They took me to Europe, and ofcourse, the rest is history.
They pulled the plug on R.
B.
Bob Taylor.
They were all told you either dothis or you're going to jail.
And they fired Samuel.
Yeah.
Sam Cole had to leave rightafter Madison because he was
(13:29):
instrumental in the doubledipping.
It would be too much of anembarrassment for Miller and you
know, to have the truth comeout.
SPEAKER_00 (13:39):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
That's what happened.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Wow.
Wow.
That's uh sad to hear that.
Um yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Yep.
And of course, I was in Europewith uh Steve Gerlock, the head
chemist at Miller, uh JJShields, and Bruce Mueller.
These were all people in sportsmarketing.
They invited me to go to Europewith them.
So at the end of the season, youknow, right after Clear Lake was
over with.
And I thought things were goingto be much better for the next
(14:09):
year.
It wasn't gonna be RB Taylor, Iknew that.
But anyway, when JJ used to callback um, you know, to Miller,
you know, about every other day,because we were over there 16
days, and right near the endwhen we were getting ready to,
you know, come home a coupledays before that, he was talking
to Tom Kleiber and and the phoneconversation started to get, oh,
(14:34):
oh, oh, all right, okay, oh welluh to me that was a red flag.
I'm going, oh shit.
They're talking about what'sgoing on.
I'm getting screwed.
And sure enough, they turned thesponsorship over to Lasero Fran
and Chip.
And they stayed in the sport,but Tom was out.
SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
Yeah.
Unfortunate.
SPEAKER_01 (14:59):
So anyway, well, that's okay.
That's part of uh Fortune 500,you know, company.
I get it, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
You're only as good as as long as you're useful, and
if you're no useful anymore,you're you're kicked to the
curb, you know.
So anyway, I was in Europe whenI kind of got the hint, and as
soon as I got home, then I got acall from Tom Kleiber
apologizing to me.
I know what I told you, I'mawful sorry.
And you you were our guy, youdid such a great job for us, and
(15:30):
you know, um, and all the racesand the PR stuff, and but we
just had to do this.
And okay, no problem.
SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Yeah.
Well, I didn't know that youwere you were pitching to to
purchase all the P impact stuff.
That would have been prettyimpressive.
I think I think that would havebeen um that would have been
pretty cool if you had were incharge of that program with that
sponsor.
SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
There was a there I wasn't the only one that was
doing the same thing.
I mean, there was like, youknow, JJ told me they had like
four proposals all fromdifferent people that were gonna
buy the paint tax stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (16:06):
Got it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Why RB Taylor didn't do that, I don't know.
You know, because it was aviable team and it was running
pretty good.
SPEAKER_00 (16:14):
Right, right.
Well that's too bad.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
And anyway, that didn't happen.
So that's the that's the truthof the light all-star.
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
And of course, Bernie Little bought everything
and shit canned the the turbinesand and put Ronnie in charge of
both the you know the uh Griffinprogram and the turban program
and the rest the restlesshistory.
SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Yeah, and then you got re uh rekindled later on
when he went to Budweiser astheir driver.
We're but you after the 86season, were were you planning
on retiring in 86, or was thatjust I could tell I was probably
gonna kill myself if I didn'tquit.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
Okay.
Uh I could keep you know one ortwo of the turbine boats behind
me, but as you saw that year, Imean, I was uh here here's
always been my philosophy.
Again, let the boat do what itlikes, don't try and make it do
something it doesn't like to do.
I caught myself trying to makethe squire shop do something
(18:21):
that I knew better it shouldn'tbe doing, okay?
And uh and I was doing thatbecause I wanted to prove that
that we could beat the turbines,you know.
And and that became very obviousto me at least that we didn't
have a chance, you know.
I could stay ahead of one or twoof them, but I couldn't stay
(18:44):
ahead of all three of them, youknow.
And both the bud and the millerwere both fast uh on any given
Sunday, you know.
Right.
And so I just decided that, youknow, I don't need to be doing
this, Tom.
You don't need the money.
You certainly don't want to endthe sport dead.
unknown (19:02):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
And so I decided, and after the 86th season, I
gave Bob Steil plenty ofwarning.
By the way, him and I becamevery good friends eventually,
you know, but I gave him thewarning that in at Seattle I'm
going to announce my retirement,which I did.
And I really did thought uh orthink at that time that that was
(19:23):
the end of it, you know.
And the reason being is that Ididn't have a top ride.
Uh Reynolds had one, Cropfieldhad one, Chip had one, you know.
I mean, so the handwriting wason the wall.
It was like, why am I doingthis?
You know, I'm probably gonnakill myself or nothing, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (19:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
So and Bob was uh it was a great ride.
I'm glad I drove that boatbecause I had never driven a
Rolls-Royce um boat preparedlike it was prepared for chip,
you know.
And I really got to feel why hewas able to win so many races.
Uh, how could you lose with aboat like that, you know?
It time his it time had it itcame and went, you know.
(20:06):
And so uh I just said, you know,I I can do other stuff, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:11):
So that's when I told Bob.
And and if you remember, uh, Igave kind of my farewell at
Seattle, never thinking I wasever gonna come back.
Yeah, so that's the truth onthat deal.
SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Okay.
Well, you you you didn't leavethe sport for long.
It was a couple years later,Bernie came out.
SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
One year, yeah, basically.
Crapfield got hurt, and thatchanged everything, you know.
Yeah, in 88 he got hurt.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
Right.
And how how did Bernie convinceyou to come back?
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
I gotta call it, uh, you know, of course, I wasn't
involved in the sport at all,really, in uh 87.
And in 88, you know, I knew thatthey were running in Miami and
stuff, and and uh two o'clock inthe morning my after Miami, I
knew there was a crash, and Ididn't know how Cropfield was or
uh Scotty Pierce or anything.
(21:00):
I knew there was a crash.
And at two o'clock in themorning my phone rings and wakes
up Judy and I.
We're in Fair Haven, you know.
And uh and you know, Tom, yeah,Jesus Christ, this is Bernie.
What are you doing?
I says, Sound asleep, Bernie.
What the hell are you calling mefor?
(21:22):
God damn it, I need you to drivemy boat next week.
You know how Bernie is.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
So uh I says, why?
What the hell happened?
What what about Jimmy?
Oh, Jimmy's out for the year,you know.
We we we you you know, we gottahave you drive the boat.
I says, Can't we talk about thisin the morning?
Jerry, it's two o'clock in theyou know, call me in the morning
when I digest some of thisstuff, you know.
(21:53):
So the next morning he did calland uh and I said, I won't drive
turbine one, I don't like thatboat.
I says, but if you tell me thatturbine two is gonna be the boat
I'm gonna be driving, the onethat you know Jimmy got run over
in, uh he says, Yeah, we'll haveit fixed, no problem.
Well, that was a lie.
(22:14):
So I had to drive Turbine One atDetroit, and very and I of
course, you know, had to workout the financial details and uh
fly to Lakeland, sign thecontracts, insurance policies,
and all the other happy horseshit you gotta do, you know.
So, but uh and of course uh theykept telling me turbine two was
gonna be ready for Detroit, youknow.
(22:36):
And of course it wasn't, so uh Iwent, oh shit.
Because I didn't like the thecop first of all, I never drove
a can't capsule boat.
SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
And I didn't like the capsule that was on turbine
one, the old light all-star.
And uh and when I tested it forthe first time, I'm going
through this claustrophobic, youknow, uh mental part of even
strapping in, because I wasagainst that all the time.
I always drove without belts andall that stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (23:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
So that was all unnerving for me to begin with,
let alone being in Turbine 1,which in my mind was a faster,
scarier boat than it was at 135miles an hour, is all it would
go when it was with a crummy GEmotor in it, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
How how different was it todrive it in 88?
SPEAKER_01 (23:30):
I know you only got to run it that one time, but
yeah, I only ran it in Detroit,and to be honest with you, I was
uh uh really not sure I wannaeven wanted to do this in in in
in any capsule boat.
And so I just kind of bit my lipand got through Detroit and
(23:50):
didn't do very well.
I think I you know, Cropfieldprobably would have done way
better.
I finished like, I don't know,third or fourth, something like
that.
And was scared shitless becauseyou know, usually you gotta
start the season, do somepracticing, get your mental mind
up to the speed you're gonna berunning, and I basically was
thrown into the fire in acapsule boat, ill-handling
(24:13):
bastard that it was, and and andso I was definitely you know
shitting in my knickers.
Pardon the expression.
SPEAKER_00 (24:27):
Oh, you're good.
You're good.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Um we got out of Detroit, thank God, and and I
knew that the the turbine twowas going to be ready, you know,
for Evansville.
And of course, everything wassuper duper until it blew over.
We had a we had a uh the Cannardring act uh there's a sp there's
a the Canard wing is fastened ona shaft, you know.
(24:52):
We I call it an axle, but uh itwas dead soft, and that's why
the boat blew over.
I mean I was fast qualifier.
I'd won the first two heats.
If I'd have won that heat that Iwas leading, um you know chip
wouldn't even have been in thefinal, you know, and he ends up
winning in the surface, youknow.
unknown (25:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
So I ended up being upside down and backwards and in
the hospital for a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (25:15):
So there's your introduction to racing for bud,
I guess.
SPEAKER_01 (25:21):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
But it really the computer showed that I
accelerated off the con thecorner to 185, and then it
showed I decelerated all the waydown to 157 when it lifted off.
I was trying to do whatever Icould with the you know what I
had to work with.
You don't see the canards.
(25:43):
In other words, I can see theindicators in the cockpit, but
they were set where they werebelong, and and they were only
operated at time with the trimswitches on the steering wheel,
which was really slow.
SPEAKER_02 (25:56):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
So the only thing I could do was try and slow the
thing down.
I knew it was getting loose, butI I was trying to slow the thing
down to not blow it over, and ofcourse it blew over anyway.
Well, come to find out whathappened is the shaft that the
that the canard was on hadtwisted, and uh it was in full
lift position, but it didn'tshow that on the indicators in
(26:20):
the cockpit.
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:22):
So that's what it raised that sponsor and blew
over backwards.
And that's the first time andonly time that ever happened to
me in my whole racing career.
SPEAKER_00 (26:31):
Period.
Yeah.
Well, thankfully it wasn't anenclosed canopy, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:35):
Yeah, well, thank God I was, because otherwise I'd
be dead.
There's no doubt about that.
It wasn't for Ronnie Brown'sreally excellent uh enclosed
cockpit that Lauren Sawyer andRamsey and Reinberger and and uh
you know everybody everybodythat were involved in designing
that boat, which Ronnie was thebiggest part of it, and that
(26:58):
cockpit.
Uh I still think that's the bestenclosed cockpit and why they
went away from that, because ithad roll bars, chrome molly
steel, I mean it had thetrapdoor, it had the F-16
fighter canopy, the way Ronnie,it was pretty cool too, the way
it opened up and stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
Yeah, compared to what they're doing now.
I've I'm I I'm not reallyenthused with ever wanting to
get in one of those cockpits.
I've seen them.
They're meat slicers insidethere.
SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
Yeah, you got no room to move in the in the the
boats now.
SPEAKER_01 (27:32):
Yeah, yeah.
But anyway, that's I'm glad thesport is going the way it's
going because uh I had my timeand I uh thank goodness for the
golden ride.
I you know the only worldchampionship year that I had,
and it was I had to do thatminus one race.
In other words, the boat got itstitle before I did, and I didn't
(27:55):
get mine until the last heat ofthe last race of the year, and
that was when I actually won mydriving championship.
SPEAKER_00 (28:03):
Yeah, yeah, you had your driver championship there,
and then you had a couple moregold cups come up in '89
and '90.
Yeah.
And back to the record books,you're one of only a few people.
I think you, Bill Muncie, andDave Villock are the only ones
to do to win a gold cup in threedifferent decades.
SPEAKER_01 (28:23):
Yes.
And then Bill Walk, obviously,after me.
I never raced against Dave uhever, except in the Southland
sweepstakes.
Uh I think around 1986, he wasin uh he was driving a F-boat,
and I was driving a stock sevenliter, and that's the only time
him and I ever were on the racecourse uh together at the same
(28:45):
time in anything.
SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:48):
Yeah.
I never really drove a stake.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
No, no.
But a really short list, uh,another accomplishment for you
there.
Yeah.
Um, did any of those other goldcups stand out for you?
SPEAKER_01 (29:00):
1990.
Uh, you know, I uh first of all,88 was Jim's ride.
I substituted at the end of 88,uh uh, you know, Jim took over
again in '89.
And uh he won a couple of races,I think, before Herman Burney
finally decided to part ways.
(29:22):
And uh and again, not twoo'clock in the morning, but it
was you know, way late at night,and I guess there was a big
shout and match somewhere,either Evansville or Madison,
I'm not sure where it was at,but uh uh Syracuse was the next
race, and it was kind of thenext weekend, and my phone rang
(29:44):
again, and it was Bernie.
And he said, Uh, I I got rid ofCropfield and I want you to
drive my boat.
And I says, Wow, geez, remember,I'm totally away from the race
site, so I don't know what thehell's going on.
And uh, and he says, he says,God damn it, it's either gonna
be you or I'll get somebodyelse.
He said, But I'm not gonna havehim drive anymore.
(30:06):
I'm he's done with him, youknow.
And so I says, Well, I don'twant to take anybody's ride,
it's Jim's ride.
No, it isn't.
I got rid of the little bastard,you know.
I says, Well, I says, if if ifif you want me, I I I love to
work with your people and I'veloved the boat.
And he says, Well, turbine threeis the one that we're we're
gonna be running.
You haven't driven that one yet.
(30:28):
And so then I agreed, and Ronniecalled me, and then of course
Ronnie was telling me the issuesthat they were having with
turbine three, and uh so that'sthe one that I got thrown into
again uh with no experience.
Fortunately for me, Syracusethat year was smooth, beautiful,
(30:50):
smooth water.
And uh because the bow the boathad problems, and uh it bow
steered a lot, had too much leadin the rudder, you couldn't feel
the load on your arms, there's awhole bunch of things.
things.
Cropfield had a little tinysteering wheel in it.
I made them get rid of that andwe had to fly in from Seattle
the stuff that I had in TurbineII to move the steering wheel
(31:12):
back to me and put in a biggersteering wheel and you know a
lot of creature comforts I youknow had to get done.
If you remember in 89, this hasnever been done before or since
J uh uh Chip and I two boats weran both of us over a hundred
and fifty mile an hour average.
(31:34):
First and second.
That's never been done before orsince, to my knowledge.
We ran a heat of racing and Ibeat him by a little bit.
Uh but basically we were deck todeck for the whole heat.
He was on the inside, I was onthe outside and the water was
like a mill pond.
(31:56):
The two boats that were supposedto be in the heat with us they
they couldn't even get started.
Larry Lauderback was one of themI think in the Winston.
But uh both of us ran over 153miles an hour I think was the if
not 153 damn close to it.
And uh but him and I bothtogether.
(32:20):
So he he ran 150 and so did I byjust a smidgen better.
Yeah and so that that's that'son tape.
And that that's that that's youcan go back and look at that
particular heat and that's afact.
We we him and I did thattogether.
It was a pretty awesome race.
SPEAKER_00 (32:40):
Well I've always been curious about the the
differences between the T2 andT3 that you raced but
unfortunately we're gonna haveto wait until next week to find
out what the differences werebetween the T3 and T2 boats uh
Tom got to race with MissBudweiser.
Hope you enjoyed part three andguess what we're gonna get a
(33:01):
fourth part to this interview Italked to Tom for quite an
extensive amount of time.
Really appreciate the time hedevoted to this I'm always
appreciative of everyone havehave on the show but it always
takes a lot of time to gothrough all the questions I have
and whatnot.
And Tom was very generous withhis time.
So thank you Tom for that andhope you look forward to next
(33:21):
week's episode which will be theconclusion of my interview with
Tom to ETH.
And he'll talk more about hisyears at Budweiser racing as
well as his time uh leading thesport in the early 2000s and
talks about Detroit, thepossibility of Gold Cup coming
back and some other fun thingsalong the way.
In the meantime, don't forget tocheck us out on our social media
(33:43):
platforms.
We're on Facebook and Instagramwe're also online at
Roushartelltalk.com and whileyou're on our website don't
forget to check out theRoushitel Talk Plus subscription
based service where you getaccess to special parts of the
website that has historicaldocuments, photographs, early
access to all new episodes, aswell as entry into a monthly
(34:05):
raffle drawing.
But unfortunately for youknuckleheads that's all the time
we have for this week.
So until next time I hope to seeyou at the reading
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