February 4, 2025 • 27 mins
Have you ever wondered why we're drawn to light and why darkness often stirs a deep-rooted fear in us? Join us as we peel back the layers of this profound theme on the Rooted and Grounded podcast. We kick off with a lighthearted discussion on personal fears, from snakes to mice, setting the stage for a more profound exploration of darkness and its symbolism. Guided by Jesus' declaration, 'I am the light of the world,' we unpack how light represents goodness and hope in a world overshadowed by sin. The conversation weaves through how different sources of light, like the sun and electricity, serve as metaphors for the ultimate illumination that Jesus brings into our lives, guiding us from shadows to salvation.
As we continue, the metaphor of living as children of light takes center stage. Inspired by passages from Ephesians, John, and Romans, we reflect on the transformative journey from a life shrouded in darkness to embracing a new self, crafted in righteousness and holiness. We discuss the importance of being reflectors of God's light, highlighting the vital relationship between Jesus and the Father and how His teachings illuminate our spiritual path. Tune in to discover how embracing this divine light can lead us to a life filled with purpose and grace, even in a world that often stumbles in darkness.
Learn More at 109.church
We invite you to join us in this journey of faith. If you would like to learn more about a deeper relationship with God or need someone to pray with, please reach out to us at hello@109.church. We are here to support and encourage you in your spiritual growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Brown (00:07):
Hello friends, and welcome to the Rooted and
Grounded podcast.
It's chilly, Chilly.
Wayne Miller (00:12):
Not for me, buddy oh you're good, I'm good.
Matt Miller (00:14):
Look here, got the fancy vest on Pockets.
Wayne Miller (00:17):
Look here, boys, keep those hands warm.
Matt Brown (00:21):
Keep those paws warm , looks more like a banker than
a preacher.
Wayne Miller (00:25):
You going to make a deposit.
I'll pass we those paws warm.
Looks more like a banker than apreacher.
You going to make a deposit?
Matt Brown (00:29):
I'll pass, we'll take it.
Wayne Miller (00:31):
Make sure it'll be in good hands.
It'll be in good hands, goodhands, don't worry about it.
Matt Brown (00:34):
All right.
So, guys, question to get usstarted today.
What are you afraid of?
Who wants to start that one?
We're not talking about wivesright talk about whatever you
want okay well, I'll just leavethat.
Wayne Miller (00:49):
I would advise you .
Yeah, somewhere else.
Yeah, we'll move on from that,um right I would say snakes come
on, that's what I was gonna saysomething different.
Matt Miller (00:59):
Um, I tell you I'm not scared of them, but the
skimmer in my pole.
I tell you I'm not scared ofthem, but the skimmer in my pole
.
I tell you, what does scare meis when I think the frog is dead
and it's not.
Wayne Miller (01:14):
And then the way it goes, I'm like whoa, hey,
yeah, that gets me.
Yeah, I am scared of snake, butyou know there's only two kinds
I'm scared of really Dead andalive.
That's the only two, True,Anything in the same category.
I could go with that.
How about you?
Matt Brown (01:31):
I would go with mice .
I get real manly, real quickwhen there's a mice around.
Yeah, yeah.
Wayne Miller (01:42):
So you holler for your wife.
Matt Brown (01:44):
It's the startle factor.
Wayne Miller (01:45):
Oh, I know it's the startle fact.
Like I know they're little, Iknow they're not gonna do
anything.
That's the thing.
Matt Brown (01:48):
It's that uh, I agree, you see one and like we
live in the country so, like thecats, will bring it up on the
porch or like you'll see onelike in the garage.
I'm just like time to move timeto move.
Wayne Miller (02:01):
holler for the wife Moving on, all right.
Matt Brown (02:04):
So I ask you this question to lead into this, and
that is, I think, one of theearliest fears that people
develop is the fear of darkness.
And so whenever there is theabsence of light, there's
uncertainty, there's fear,there's kind of that endless
supply of what-if scenarios, andthere's something about
darkness that makes us cravelight.
(02:27):
But the other way around lightdoes not make us crave darkness.
And so today we're going tolook at some of the spiritual
reasons why we have a desire forlight, as Jesus reveals himself
to be the light of the world.
And so, if you are followingalong, we are going to be in
John, chapter 8, and let's readverse 12 to get started.
Again, Jesus spoke to themsaying I am the light of the
(02:50):
world.
Whoever follows me will notwalk in darkness, but will have
the light of life.
So, Wayne, we got the sun andthe moon, we've got fire, we've
got electricity, we've got a lotof sources of light.
And so what does Jesus meanwhen he says that he is the
light of the world?
Wayne Miller (03:08):
Well, you know, you're right, we do have the sun
and the moon, you know, fire,electricity, whatever.
But I want to say none of themshine as brightly as Jesus
Christ is the light of the world.
Matt Miller (03:20):
What was that?
Revelation 22.
The lamb is the light.
Wayne Miller (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, he is the light.
Yeah, yeah, he is the light.
So when you think about whatdoes it mean, what does it mean?
Jesus is the light of the world, it means he's the light of the
world.
Matt Brown (03:33):
Yeah, I mean in all seriousness, that's right, isn't
that deep?
Wayne Miller (03:37):
Isn't that deep Mm-hmm?
Because, in reality, when youthink about it, there is no
other source of true light.
He's it.
And I think when he reads inJohn 8, 12, he's real clear
about it.
He says I am the light of theworld.
And, guys, what that means tome is it just means there's no
other light other than him, Imean.
(03:59):
But it also tells me this thateveryone, everyone, is in need
of that light, in need of Jesus.
In other words, guys, there'sno other alternative.
Okay, the sun and the moon, youknow, as bright as they are,
they can't save you.
Okay, their evidences are thecreator, but they're not going
(04:20):
to create salvation for you.
And so, when I think about Jesusas light of the world, it's
just the very fact.
There's two or three thingsthat the fact that there's none
other beside him.
He is the great I am, and thefact that all of us, because of
the darkness of sin, we need thelight of the world.
Because, when you look intoscriptures, light is a symbol of
(04:46):
good, light is a symbol of good, light is a symbol of
righteousness, while darkness isalways associated with evil.
And it's because all of us havea problem of sin, all have
fallen short.
All have committed sin.
That means every individual isin need of the light of the
world.
And I just find it interestingthat John 8, 12, that statement
(05:09):
you just read Jesus said I'm thelight of the world.
It's immediately following avery dark discussion, because in
verses 1 through 11, it isabout the woman that was found
and they brought her there.
That was supposedly found inadultery In the darkness of her
life.
Jesus says I'm the light of theworld.
(05:29):
And when I say that, guys, it'sjust the fact that he gives
hope to everyone, because he isthe only source of true light.
Matt Miller (05:38):
It's like go to the light or look to the light or
you know there's always thatemphasis or that you know
teaching to go to this light.
So you think about, like Waynewas saying, that concept of you
know light being good anddarkness being evil.
I mean, just think about whathe's doing.
(05:59):
He's elevating himself to saythat I'm that, I'm that light,
I'm that example.
And verse 11, I mean he says uh, neither do I condemn you, go
and sin no more.
It's like what, like who'smaking that statement?
Wayne Miller (06:17):
but you know, in john 1, when the book opens, we
know we talked about our lastepisode, about in the beginning
was a word, etc.
But we didn't look at verse 4.
For in him was life and thelife was the light.
That's right.
Matt Miller (06:32):
And the light shines in the darkness.
Wayne Miller (06:34):
That's exactly right, and they don't understand
it, yeah.
Matt Brown (06:37):
It's like thinking back to the last episode.
Jesus describes himself withsomething physical to describe
something spiritual and eternal.
Matt Miller (06:44):
Exactly right.
A's always exactly right.
A great teacher man.
Matt Brown (06:47):
So, matt, obviously, the contrast between light and
darkness is made from the veryfirst page of the Bible and
throughout the rest of the book,and so Jesus makes this pointed
statement that those who followhim will not walk in darkness.
Now, what does walking indarkness look like, and why is
that such a bad way to live?
Matt Miller (07:04):
What does walking in darkness look like, and why
is that such a bad way to live?
Well, I think, if you just goback to like John three and you
think about this idea of walkingin darkness, he says in verse
18, he who believes in him isnot condemned, but he who does
not believe is condemned alreadybecause he's not believed in
the name of the only begottenson of God.
(07:26):
And this is the condemnationthat the light has come into the
world and men love darknessrather than light.
Because their deeds were evil.
I went to my buddies this hasbeen years ago and he said, hey,
I want to grill out and maybewe'll have fire later on.
And I said OK.
And he said, let, I want togrill out and maybe we'll have a
fire later on.
And I said okay.
(07:46):
And he said let's do it atnight Now I'm not going to say
this guy's name, that way hewon't feel bad, but we've joked
about it for years.
And I said he said we got tomake sure it's all the way dark
though, and I'm like, okay, sowe got over there.
Well, we ended up stayinglonger and I ended up staying
(08:09):
the night.
Well, I didn't realize until themorning was the reason why he
wanted us to do it in the darkwas his yard was an absolute
disaster.
I mean, he had all kinds ofstuff in that yard and he didn't
want everybody to see it, andso he knew that he could have it
in the dark, and he didn't wanteverybody to see it, and so he
knew that he could have it inthe dark and he could put them
in a certain area and angle thema certain way and nobody would
(08:31):
even know.
But this is exactly what Jesusis talking about.
People would rather be in thedark, because what they feel
like or think is that they cancover or hide a certain way of
living and nobody will see it.
And I think that you know.
The statement that really standsout to me is is uh, when in
(08:53):
verse 19, men loved darknessrather than light because their
deeds were evil.
Darkness and that way of livingit's evil living.
It's the contrast betweenmorning, day and night and dark.
I mean, you think about justwhen the sun comes up you can
(09:18):
see all the stuff.
But the reason why I want it tostay dark is because I don't
want you to know what I'm doing,because I'm embarrassed.
Wayne Miller (09:26):
I can identify with you, buddy.
I look better in the dark.
It's like, you know, over ourvanities.
You know the lights, okay, forsome reason.
Obviously we weren't thinkingWe've got a two light here, two
light in the middle and twolight over the other vanity.
I look in that mirror underthat vanity I'm going so you, I
(09:47):
took out one of the bulbs.
It looks better.
It looks a whole lot better Nowyou know, probably take the
other one out too, but at leastit's not shining as brightly as
it once did that's right.
Matt Brown (09:57):
Get Hardison to turn out some of these lights for us
.
Wayne Miller (10:00):
Or at least on this side.
Yeah, because if we could dothat, I'd still get glare.
Yeah, okay.
Matt Brown (10:06):
Yeah, Touche so on that note throughout the rest of
this section, jesus and thePharisees.
They get into both a legal anda spiritual discussion about if
Jesus is really who he claims tobe.
And in response to thesequestions, Jesus continually
(10:28):
ties himself back to God.
And so let's look at John 8,verse 17.
It says in your law it iswritten that the testimony of
two people is true.
I am the one who bears witnessabout myself and the father who
sent me bears witness about me.
And then, skipping down toverse 28.
So Jesus said to them when youhave lifted up the son of man,
(10:49):
then you will know that I am heand that I do nothing on my own
authority, but speak just as theFather taught me.
And he who sent me is with me.
He has not left me alone, for Ialways do the things that are
pleasing to him.
So, matt, why is it soimportant that Jesus establishes
that he alone is not the sourceof light, but that he is the
(11:12):
light sent from God?
Matt Miller (11:15):
You know the thing about it is, you know he goes on
to say that you know you shallknow the truth and the truth
will set you free.
When you abide in my words, youknow you're going to be
something different and I thinkthat light I mean it's the idea
of what he teaches in the Sermonon the Mount You're a city
(11:40):
that's set on a hill.
You're a light that shines on alampstand.
When you walk by a house andit's nighttime and that house
has that uh, candle shining inthat window, you can see that
like.
So he's saying, you're gonnasee a difference in who I am and
(12:03):
I'm gonna be that first fruitin that example of what a
resurrected person looks likebecause of my faithfulness to
god.
But you get to be the samething as well, because, I mean,
you think about this idea inverse 29, he who sent me is with
me.
The father has not left mealone, for I always do those
(12:24):
things which please him, likesometimes the things that he was
asked to do were not easy.
You know, like we see it in thegarden Let this cup pass, but
not my will, yours be done.
And I think that when we thinkabout him talking about being
the light.
It's very different than otherlights because there is good
(12:48):
people and there are people thathave done some really good
things, but Jesus is the lighthe is.
He is the example like, and Ithink he's he's.
He's putting himself up, not ina very disrespectful way, he's
doing it because that's who I am.
I mean, isn't that what paulsaid?
He didn't consider it, robert,be equal with god, but what did?
(13:11):
Became a real light and becamelike a bond servant.
He humbled himself.
That's incredible.
Like that's what light does.
Light becomes humble, lightbecomes, you know, extra mile.
Light becomes very differentand even in this moment he's,
he's talking it through and youknow we talked about this on the
(13:31):
last episode as well.
They don't get it until later,but I think that's why John is
so excited in 1 John, because herealizes who that light truly
was man.
I just to me verse 32, you shallknow the truth, and the truth
(13:55):
will make you free is just, youknow, something that I always
hold on to, because when Irecognize good versus Jesus,
what I think is good is in nocomparison to what really is
good, and that's the true lightyeah, because you're comparing
(14:16):
good to perfect exactly, yes.
Matt Brown (14:19):
So, wayne, if jesus is the light that is sent from
god, how do we become the lightthat shines today?
Wayne Miller (14:25):
well, you know p robably the first thing comes my
mind mad on, that is hebrewthat he is the author of
salvation to all those that dosomething obey him all those who
follow him, and you know one ofthe great.
We don't have time in this time,but Ephesians 4 and 5 to me is
just a great, quick few passagesto help us to see what it is
(14:48):
for us to be able to walk and tolive as light.
Because you look at Ephesians 4, he says I beg you to walk in
the manner worthy of the callingwith which you've been called.
And then he tells them whatthat looks like.
He didn't just say hey, I wantyou to walk like Christ.
He says let me give you someexamples of that Humility,
gentleness, patience, showingtolerance, being diligent.
(15:09):
In other words, it makes adifference from people.
When you walk in darkness, youstumble, you step on things that
you normally wouldn't.
You stump your toe, you tripbecause of darkness, but when
you can turn that light on it'sso then the pathway is so clear
and it's so obvious, and ifthere is something there, you
(15:33):
can see it, so you don't step onit.
So when we as children of godowe those who obey him, then you
look at ephesians 4.
He says I beg you to do this.
Then I would encourage ourlisteners and those who are
viewing to look at verses 17 andfollowing, because it's talking
about what you've put off.
As people of darkness, you putoff this lifestyle, you put off
(15:55):
this attitude.
You don't walk any longer thatway, but you put on.
I love verse 24, you put on anew self.
And notice that new self.
It's in the likeness of God,created in righteousness and
created in holiness of the truth, john.
You said about John eight 32,the truth will do something
powerful, it'll set you free.
(16:16):
And so he says that you createdin righteousness and holiness
of truth.
And then look at chapter five,verse one be imitators of God
and notice, walk in love.
Then look at verse eight youwere formerly before you obeyed
Christ.
You were formerly darkness, butnow you are the light of the
(16:38):
world.
Walk, live, conduct your lifeas children of light.
And you know, when I think aboutthat, guys, it's just like we
talked about at the beginning.
You said you know we have thesun and the moon and all.
I just look at us as childrenof God, that we're just
reflectors.
(16:59):
That's what we are to do.
I mean you referenced it a fewminutes ago, matt, about a light
that's in a little candle in aroom at night.
It just gives light to all, butthen to those who are outside.
It doesn't just light up those.
You can see it from a distanceand I see that as the Christian,
that our lights are to beshining, because you know why.
(17:19):
We're not the light guys, werepresent the light.
Matt Miller (17:22):
Well, he says right there, for you were once
darkness, but now you are lightin the Lord.
That's right.
That's the source.
You are light in the Lord, sowalk as children of light.
Wayne Miller (17:32):
We're the moons.
That's right.
We're shining the sun, and thesun not the S-U-N, but we're
shining the S-O-N, we're shiningthe sun of God, the living
Christ, and so that's just kindof what I see, that when we look
at it.
There's so many passages wecould talk about this, but I
don't know any that just reallychallenges, like the changed
(17:55):
heart, the changed life, theobedient spirit of Ephesians 4
and 5.
It's just powerful to me Welland I think really especially
throughout John.
But here.
Matt Brown (18:12):
Jesus is not doing anything on his own and he's not
claiming to be the only sourceof light.
He's doing it because of theFather.
And, matt, I know last episodeyou talked about the vine, and
Jesus does not exist as the vineby himself, but there is the
vine dresser, and so everythingthat Jesus does is tied back to
the Father, and I think that'swhy it's so important that we
remember both aspects of thesetwo here, because we're doing
(18:33):
things through Christ to pleaseand be like the Father.
And so, as we think about thisstatement in greater detail, and
especially from that standpointof identity, like we want to do
each week, what is Jesusrevealing about himself when he
says that he is the light of theworld?
Matt Miller (18:53):
Well, I think that, like just going back to
Ephesians 5, 12, it says, orreally verse 11, have no
fellowship with unfruitful worksof darkness, but rather expose
them.
You think about darkness andlight and you think about the
identity of jesus.
He exposes the wrong thing todo.
(19:15):
Don't do that, don't be a partof that, and look at what he
says, paul says, for it isshameful even to speak of those
things which are done by them insecret.
I mean, jesus is the one whosays, of course you think about
romans, chapter 5, and you thinkabout the law and the reason
why the law came in, and it wasto to elevate that sin, the
(19:36):
wrong thing.
But you remember where it sayswhere the sin abounded, grace
abounded much more, I think.
There, I think, the beauty ofthe light is not only will I
show you what that sin is, I'lleliminate that sin.
If you will do this, you willnot have sin in your life.
You will live a perfect life ifyou just follow what I say.
And oh, by the way, when you domess up my blood, if you ask
(20:00):
for forgiveness will cleanse youand put you back in the perfect
state.
But I think verse 13 is the oneman.
But all things that are exposedare made manifest by what?
By the light.
For whatever makes manifest islight, what is happening.
(20:20):
And no wonder he says awake,you who sleep.
You better arise from the deadand guess what Christ is going
to give you light Like.
If you want hope in your life,if you want to be able to walk
the way that you're supposed towalk, if you think you're
walking the way that you'resupposed to walk and you ain't
got Jesus, you ain't seensomething yet.
(20:40):
You ain't seen light.
And I think that he is justtrying to elevate people to say
come to me and.
I'll show you something youain't never seen before.
Matt Brown (20:52):
And that makes me think a lot about uh Matthew,
and talks about the blindleading the blind, and for how
many people in the world thinkthey have life figured out?
They're doing things the rightway and try to get people to
follow them, even at times fromthe best of intentions, but
they're in darkness.
Wayne Miller (21:08):
That's right.
Matt Brown (21:09):
And we can try to to find meaning and fulfillment in
, in maybe these practices orthese teachings, but you're not
going to and there's only oneplace you're going to find it
and that's in the light.
Wayne Miller (21:19):
That's right and that's to me is one of the
identities here that I see thathe is our hope, um and, and you
know, like last episode wetalked about jesus being bread
of life, and one of those thingsthat you know stood out about
jesus in that statement is thefact that he is the one sent
down from his deity.
The one thing that stands outto me about him being the light
(21:41):
of the world is just the Savior.
You know, the woman at the wellsaid you know, when those
people came from the city, theysaid this is the Savior of the
world because he is the lightand we all need it, because we
all have the problem withdarkness light and we all need
it because we all have theproblem with darkness.
Matt Miller (21:58):
You know, I'd use that example, my friend, and
when the light came, it exposedhis yard.
The light did well.
In this verse it says but allthings that are exposed, what
are exposed, the bad things, aremade manifest.
You can see them because of thelight.
And he says for whatever makesmanifest is light.
(22:20):
It's no coincidence that Jesususes that.
Wayne Miller (22:28):
And even when.
Matt Miller (22:28):
John 1, 5, where he says the light is coming to the
world and it shines in thedarkness, and the darkness can't
comprehend it.
Why?
Because they don't want to beexposed.
But if I'm willing to beexposed by the light, it changes
who I am.
It's a game changer, I mean heis.
What he is teaching is is nodoubt there's so much depth, but
(22:49):
it is really.
I mean it's so what?
I don't even I can't rememberthis saying I'm about to just
mess mean it's so.
I can't remember this sayingI'm about to just mess it up.
The scriptures are so easy towade in, but it's so deep you
could drown.
Wayne Miller (23:03):
I don't know how that that's close.
Matt Miller (23:07):
But you know, it's so easy that you can just get it
so quick, but then it's so deepbecause there's so much more to
it.
But Jesus is saying you awakethose who sleep.
Paul says arise from the deadand guess what?
Jesus will give you life.
Man, give yourself up and I'llgive you something different.
Wayne Miller (23:26):
Yeah, I love that, John 321.
He who practices truth comes tothe light so that his deeds may
be manifested, has been wroughtin God.
I mean, you know, if I'd havebeen your buddy, y'all wouldn't
have been there at daylight I'dhave kicked y'all out.
Matt Miller (23:42):
I walked out and said man dude what happened?
Matt Brown (23:44):
He's like that's why I had the party at night, dude,
and I'm like well okay.
Wayne Miller (23:48):
I get you, if I'd have known this, I'd have on
this.
I left them on.
But just what is in darkness?
Yeah, sometimes people justwant to stay there because the
light shows.
Well, there was a confidenceabout him.
Matt Miller (24:04):
This is not in disrespect.
No, he had a confidence.
You could tell that night,because nobody saw all that
stuff.
I mean, he was just movingaround.
He had them in a certain areawhere it was nice and then as
soon as the darkness ended andthe light came, I could tell on
his face.
So you about to leave or whatyou doing.
Wayne Miller (24:25):
I'm like dude what in the world?
Matt Miller (24:27):
You know, it's like this is such a perfect example.
Matt Brown (24:32):
Yeah, and I think, matt, building off what you were
talking about a minute ago, Isee Jesus's identity as a guide
in his teaching, and that's whatthe light does it guides us to
see Christ, to see the Father,and, in turn, become light to
show others the way.
All right, so let's make itreal.
Matt, you want to start us offthis time.
Matt Miller (24:50):
Man Already.
Ephesians 5, verse 15.
See, then, that you walkcircumspectly, not as fools but
as wise, redeeming the timebecause the days are evil.
I gotta recognize that now isthe time and a light's been
provided, so why don't I walk init?
(25:10):
Um, I think that that, for me,I'm with Wayne.
Ephesians 4 and 5, just talk somuch about just what Jesus is
calling himself, and that'slight.
Wayne Miller (25:24):
I would just say the Christian faith, the
obedient life, is wrapped up inone person, and that person is
Jesus, who is the light of theworld.
You take him out of theequation, guys.
We don't have anything.
We're all being darkness.
Matt Brown (25:38):
And I would say for mine different situations need
different types of light.
So like whenever my son wakesup during the night, I don't
want to turn the overhead lightson, I want the little
nightlight in the hallway orlike if I need to do something
in the kitchen or play or cleanor whatever.
I don't want a nightlight.
I want the big lights on or ifyou go outside, you may want a
(25:58):
flashlight, but if you'redriving a car at night, the
flashlight's not going to cut it.
Different situations needdifferent types of light.
And it's the same way as we workwith others in the spiritual
walk.
And I think about what Judesays, where he says have mercy
on those who doubt.
Save others by snatching themout of the fire to others.
Show mercy, hating even thegarment stained by sin.
(26:21):
Like there's times, we need tobe a nightlight.
Wayne Miller (26:23):
There are times we need to be a massive spotlight.
Matt Brown (26:27):
There's times we need to be the gentle lamp, and
all light is good, but we needthe right light in the right
situation.
Amen.
Good job, brother so maybe thatcan be our thought for this
week is be the light and be theright light, and we do that in
Christ.
So thank you, as always, forlistening.
I hope you have a great week.
(26:47):
We'll do it again soon.
Wayne Miller (26:48):
See you Out of here, here you.
Hello friends, and welcome to the Rooted and
Grounded podcast.
It's chilly, Chilly.
Wayne Miller (00:12):
Not for me, buddy oh you're good, I'm good.
Matt Miller (00:14):
Look here, got the fancy vest on Pockets.
Wayne Miller (00:17):
Look here, boys, keep those hands warm.
Matt Brown (00:21):
Keep those paws warm , looks more like a banker than
a preacher.
Wayne Miller (00:25):
You going to make a deposit.
I'll pass we those paws warm.
Looks more like a banker than apreacher.
You going to make a deposit?
Matt Brown (00:29):
I'll pass, we'll take it.
Wayne Miller (00:31):
Make sure it'll be in good hands.
It'll be in good hands, goodhands, don't worry about it.
Matt Brown (00:34):
All right.
So, guys, question to get usstarted today.
What are you afraid of?
Who wants to start that one?
We're not talking about wivesright talk about whatever you
want okay well, I'll just leavethat.
Wayne Miller (00:49):
I would advise you .
Yeah, somewhere else.
Yeah, we'll move on from that,um right I would say snakes come
on, that's what I was gonna saysomething different.
Matt Miller (00:59):
Um, I tell you I'm not scared of them, but the
skimmer in my pole.
I tell you I'm not scared ofthem, but the skimmer in my pole
.
I tell you, what does scare meis when I think the frog is dead
and it's not.
Wayne Miller (01:14):
And then the way it goes, I'm like whoa, hey,
yeah, that gets me.
Yeah, I am scared of snake, butyou know there's only two kinds
I'm scared of really Dead andalive.
That's the only two, True,Anything in the same category.
I could go with that.
How about you?
Matt Brown (01:31):
I would go with mice .
I get real manly, real quickwhen there's a mice around.
Yeah, yeah.
Wayne Miller (01:42):
So you holler for your wife.
Matt Brown (01:44):
It's the startle factor.
Wayne Miller (01:45):
Oh, I know it's the startle fact.
Like I know they're little, Iknow they're not gonna do
anything.
That's the thing.
Matt Brown (01:48):
It's that uh, I agree, you see one and like we
live in the country so, like thecats, will bring it up on the
porch or like you'll see onelike in the garage.
I'm just like time to move timeto move.
Wayne Miller (02:01):
holler for the wife Moving on, all right.
Matt Brown (02:04):
So I ask you this question to lead into this, and
that is, I think, one of theearliest fears that people
develop is the fear of darkness.
And so whenever there is theabsence of light, there's
uncertainty, there's fear,there's kind of that endless
supply of what-if scenarios, andthere's something about
darkness that makes us cravelight.
(02:27):
But the other way around lightdoes not make us crave darkness.
And so today we're going tolook at some of the spiritual
reasons why we have a desire forlight, as Jesus reveals himself
to be the light of the world.
And so, if you are followingalong, we are going to be in
John, chapter 8, and let's readverse 12 to get started.
Again, Jesus spoke to themsaying I am the light of the
(02:50):
world.
Whoever follows me will notwalk in darkness, but will have
the light of life.
So, Wayne, we got the sun andthe moon, we've got fire, we've
got electricity, we've got a lotof sources of light.
And so what does Jesus meanwhen he says that he is the
light of the world?
Wayne Miller (03:08):
Well, you know, you're right, we do have the sun
and the moon, you know, fire,electricity, whatever.
But I want to say none of themshine as brightly as Jesus
Christ is the light of the world.
Matt Miller (03:20):
What was that?
Revelation 22.
The lamb is the light.
Wayne Miller (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, he is the light.
Yeah, yeah, he is the light.
So when you think about whatdoes it mean, what does it mean?
Jesus is the light of the world, it means he's the light of the
world.
Matt Brown (03:33):
Yeah, I mean in all seriousness, that's right, isn't
that deep?
Wayne Miller (03:37):
Isn't that deep Mm-hmm?
Because, in reality, when youthink about it, there is no
other source of true light.
He's it.
And I think when he reads inJohn 8, 12, he's real clear
about it.
He says I am the light of theworld.
And, guys, what that means tome is it just means there's no
other light other than him, Imean.
(03:59):
But it also tells me this thateveryone, everyone, is in need
of that light, in need of Jesus.
In other words, guys, there'sno other alternative.
Okay, the sun and the moon, youknow, as bright as they are,
they can't save you.
Okay, their evidences are thecreator, but they're not going
(04:20):
to create salvation for you.
And so, when I think about Jesusas light of the world, it's
just the very fact.
There's two or three thingsthat the fact that there's none
other beside him.
He is the great I am, and thefact that all of us, because of
the darkness of sin, we need thelight of the world.
Because, when you look intoscriptures, light is a symbol of
(04:46):
good, light is a symbol of good, light is a symbol of
righteousness, while darkness isalways associated with evil.
And it's because all of us havea problem of sin, all have
fallen short.
All have committed sin.
That means every individual isin need of the light of the
world.
And I just find it interestingthat John 8, 12, that statement
(05:09):
you just read Jesus said I'm thelight of the world.
It's immediately following avery dark discussion, because in
verses 1 through 11, it isabout the woman that was found
and they brought her there.
That was supposedly found inadultery In the darkness of her
life.
Jesus says I'm the light of theworld.
(05:29):
And when I say that, guys, it'sjust the fact that he gives
hope to everyone, because he isthe only source of true light.
Matt Miller (05:38):
It's like go to the light or look to the light or
you know there's always thatemphasis or that you know
teaching to go to this light.
So you think about, like Waynewas saying, that concept of you
know light being good anddarkness being evil.
I mean, just think about whathe's doing.
(05:59):
He's elevating himself to saythat I'm that, I'm that light,
I'm that example.
And verse 11, I mean he says uh, neither do I condemn you, go
and sin no more.
It's like what, like who'smaking that statement?
Wayne Miller (06:17):
but you know, in john 1, when the book opens, we
know we talked about our lastepisode, about in the beginning
was a word, etc.
But we didn't look at verse 4.
For in him was life and thelife was the light.
That's right.
Matt Miller (06:32):
And the light shines in the darkness.
Wayne Miller (06:34):
That's exactly right, and they don't understand
it, yeah.
Matt Brown (06:37):
It's like thinking back to the last episode.
Jesus describes himself withsomething physical to describe
something spiritual and eternal.
Matt Miller (06:44):
Exactly right.
A's always exactly right.
A great teacher man.
Matt Brown (06:47):
So, matt, obviously, the contrast between light and
darkness is made from the veryfirst page of the Bible and
throughout the rest of the book,and so Jesus makes this pointed
statement that those who followhim will not walk in darkness.
Now, what does walking indarkness look like, and why is
that such a bad way to live?
Matt Miller (07:04):
What does walking in darkness look like, and why
is that such a bad way to live?
Well, I think, if you just goback to like John three and you
think about this idea of walkingin darkness, he says in verse
18, he who believes in him isnot condemned, but he who does
not believe is condemned alreadybecause he's not believed in
the name of the only begottenson of God.
(07:26):
And this is the condemnationthat the light has come into the
world and men love darknessrather than light.
Because their deeds were evil.
I went to my buddies this hasbeen years ago and he said, hey,
I want to grill out and maybewe'll have fire later on.
And I said OK.
And he said, let, I want togrill out and maybe we'll have a
fire later on.
And I said okay.
(07:46):
And he said let's do it atnight Now I'm not going to say
this guy's name, that way hewon't feel bad, but we've joked
about it for years.
And I said he said we got tomake sure it's all the way dark
though, and I'm like, okay, sowe got over there.
Well, we ended up stayinglonger and I ended up staying
(08:09):
the night.
Well, I didn't realize until themorning was the reason why he
wanted us to do it in the darkwas his yard was an absolute
disaster.
I mean, he had all kinds ofstuff in that yard and he didn't
want everybody to see it, andso he knew that he could have it
in the dark, and he didn't wanteverybody to see it, and so he
knew that he could have it inthe dark and he could put them
in a certain area and angle thema certain way and nobody would
(08:31):
even know.
But this is exactly what Jesusis talking about.
People would rather be in thedark, because what they feel
like or think is that they cancover or hide a certain way of
living and nobody will see it.
And I think that you know.
The statement that really standsout to me is is uh, when in
(08:53):
verse 19, men loved darknessrather than light because their
deeds were evil.
Darkness and that way of livingit's evil living.
It's the contrast betweenmorning, day and night and dark.
I mean, you think about justwhen the sun comes up you can
(09:18):
see all the stuff.
But the reason why I want it tostay dark is because I don't
want you to know what I'm doing,because I'm embarrassed.
Wayne Miller (09:26):
I can identify with you, buddy.
I look better in the dark.
It's like, you know, over ourvanities.
You know the lights, okay, forsome reason.
Obviously we weren't thinkingWe've got a two light here, two
light in the middle and twolight over the other vanity.
I look in that mirror underthat vanity I'm going so you, I
(09:47):
took out one of the bulbs.
It looks better.
It looks a whole lot better Nowyou know, probably take the
other one out too, but at leastit's not shining as brightly as
it once did that's right.
Matt Brown (09:57):
Get Hardison to turn out some of these lights for us
.
Wayne Miller (10:00):
Or at least on this side.
Yeah, because if we could dothat, I'd still get glare.
Yeah, okay.
Matt Brown (10:06):
Yeah, Touche so on that note throughout the rest of
this section, jesus and thePharisees.
They get into both a legal anda spiritual discussion about if
Jesus is really who he claims tobe.
And in response to thesequestions, Jesus continually
(10:28):
ties himself back to God.
And so let's look at John 8,verse 17.
It says in your law it iswritten that the testimony of
two people is true.
I am the one who bears witnessabout myself and the father who
sent me bears witness about me.
And then, skipping down toverse 28.
So Jesus said to them when youhave lifted up the son of man,
(10:49):
then you will know that I am heand that I do nothing on my own
authority, but speak just as theFather taught me.
And he who sent me is with me.
He has not left me alone, for Ialways do the things that are
pleasing to him.
So, matt, why is it soimportant that Jesus establishes
that he alone is not the sourceof light, but that he is the
(11:12):
light sent from God?
Matt Miller (11:15):
You know the thing about it is, you know he goes on
to say that you know you shallknow the truth and the truth
will set you free.
When you abide in my words, youknow you're going to be
something different and I thinkthat light I mean it's the idea
of what he teaches in the Sermonon the Mount You're a city
(11:40):
that's set on a hill.
You're a light that shines on alampstand.
When you walk by a house andit's nighttime and that house
has that uh, candle shining inthat window, you can see that
like.
So he's saying, you're gonnasee a difference in who I am and
(12:03):
I'm gonna be that first fruitin that example of what a
resurrected person looks likebecause of my faithfulness to
god.
But you get to be the samething as well, because, I mean,
you think about this idea inverse 29, he who sent me is with
me.
The father has not left mealone, for I always do those
(12:24):
things which please him, likesometimes the things that he was
asked to do were not easy.
You know, like we see it in thegarden Let this cup pass, but
not my will, yours be done.
And I think that when we thinkabout him talking about being
the light.
It's very different than otherlights because there is good
(12:48):
people and there are people thathave done some really good
things, but Jesus is the lighthe is.
He is the example like, and Ithink he's he's.
He's putting himself up, not ina very disrespectful way, he's
doing it because that's who I am.
I mean, isn't that what paulsaid?
He didn't consider it, robert,be equal with god, but what did?
(13:11):
Became a real light and becamelike a bond servant.
He humbled himself.
That's incredible.
Like that's what light does.
Light becomes humble, lightbecomes, you know, extra mile.
Light becomes very differentand even in this moment he's,
he's talking it through and youknow we talked about this on the
(13:31):
last episode as well.
They don't get it until later,but I think that's why John is
so excited in 1 John, because herealizes who that light truly
was man.
I just to me verse 32, you shallknow the truth, and the truth
(13:55):
will make you free is just, youknow, something that I always
hold on to, because when Irecognize good versus Jesus,
what I think is good is in nocomparison to what really is
good, and that's the true lightyeah, because you're comparing
(14:16):
good to perfect exactly, yes.
Matt Brown (14:19):
So, wayne, if jesus is the light that is sent from
god, how do we become the lightthat shines today?
Wayne Miller (14:25):
well, you know p robably the first thing comes my
mind mad on, that is hebrewthat he is the author of
salvation to all those that dosomething obey him all those who
follow him, and you know one ofthe great.
We don't have time in this time,but Ephesians 4 and 5 to me is
just a great, quick few passagesto help us to see what it is
(14:48):
for us to be able to walk and tolive as light.
Because you look at Ephesians 4, he says I beg you to walk in
the manner worthy of the callingwith which you've been called.
And then he tells them whatthat looks like.
He didn't just say hey, I wantyou to walk like Christ.
He says let me give you someexamples of that Humility,
gentleness, patience, showingtolerance, being diligent.
(15:09):
In other words, it makes adifference from people.
When you walk in darkness, youstumble, you step on things that
you normally wouldn't.
You stump your toe, you tripbecause of darkness, but when
you can turn that light on it'sso then the pathway is so clear
and it's so obvious, and ifthere is something there, you
(15:33):
can see it, so you don't step onit.
So when we as children of godowe those who obey him, then you
look at ephesians 4.
He says I beg you to do this.
Then I would encourage ourlisteners and those who are
viewing to look at verses 17 andfollowing, because it's talking
about what you've put off.
As people of darkness, you putoff this lifestyle, you put off
(15:55):
this attitude.
You don't walk any longer thatway, but you put on.
I love verse 24, you put on anew self.
And notice that new self.
It's in the likeness of God,created in righteousness and
created in holiness of the truth, john.
You said about John eight 32,the truth will do something
powerful, it'll set you free.
(16:16):
And so he says that you createdin righteousness and holiness
of truth.
And then look at chapter five,verse one be imitators of God
and notice, walk in love.
Then look at verse eight youwere formerly before you obeyed
Christ.
You were formerly darkness, butnow you are the light of the
(16:38):
world.
Walk, live, conduct your lifeas children of light.
And you know, when I think aboutthat, guys, it's just like we
talked about at the beginning.
You said you know we have thesun and the moon and all.
I just look at us as childrenof God, that we're just
reflectors.
(16:59):
That's what we are to do.
I mean you referenced it a fewminutes ago, matt, about a light
that's in a little candle in aroom at night.
It just gives light to all, butthen to those who are outside.
It doesn't just light up those.
You can see it from a distanceand I see that as the Christian,
that our lights are to beshining, because you know why.
(17:19):
We're not the light guys, werepresent the light.
Matt Miller (17:22):
Well, he says right there, for you were once
darkness, but now you are lightin the Lord.
That's right.
That's the source.
You are light in the Lord, sowalk as children of light.
Wayne Miller (17:32):
We're the moons.
That's right.
We're shining the sun, and thesun not the S-U-N, but we're
shining the S-O-N, we're shiningthe sun of God, the living
Christ, and so that's just kindof what I see, that when we look
at it.
There's so many passages wecould talk about this, but I
don't know any that just reallychallenges, like the changed
(17:55):
heart, the changed life, theobedient spirit of Ephesians 4
and 5.
It's just powerful to me Welland I think really especially
throughout John.
But here.
Matt Brown (18:12):
Jesus is not doing anything on his own and he's not
claiming to be the only sourceof light.
He's doing it because of theFather.
And, matt, I know last episodeyou talked about the vine, and
Jesus does not exist as the vineby himself, but there is the
vine dresser, and so everythingthat Jesus does is tied back to
the Father, and I think that'swhy it's so important that we
remember both aspects of thesetwo here, because we're doing
(18:33):
things through Christ to pleaseand be like the Father.
And so, as we think about thisstatement in greater detail, and
especially from that standpointof identity, like we want to do
each week, what is Jesusrevealing about himself when he
says that he is the light of theworld?
Matt Miller (18:53):
Well, I think that, like just going back to
Ephesians 5, 12, it says, orreally verse 11, have no
fellowship with unfruitful worksof darkness, but rather expose
them.
You think about darkness andlight and you think about the
identity of jesus.
He exposes the wrong thing todo.
(19:15):
Don't do that, don't be a partof that, and look at what he
says, paul says, for it isshameful even to speak of those
things which are done by them insecret.
I mean, jesus is the one whosays, of course you think about
romans, chapter 5, and you thinkabout the law and the reason
why the law came in, and it wasto to elevate that sin, the
(19:36):
wrong thing.
But you remember where it sayswhere the sin abounded, grace
abounded much more, I think.
There, I think, the beauty ofthe light is not only will I
show you what that sin is, I'lleliminate that sin.
If you will do this, you willnot have sin in your life.
You will live a perfect life ifyou just follow what I say.
And oh, by the way, when you domess up my blood, if you ask
(20:00):
for forgiveness will cleanse youand put you back in the perfect
state.
But I think verse 13 is the oneman.
But all things that are exposedare made manifest by what?
By the light.
For whatever makes manifest islight, what is happening.
(20:20):
And no wonder he says awake,you who sleep.
You better arise from the deadand guess what Christ is going
to give you light Like.
If you want hope in your life,if you want to be able to walk
the way that you're supposed towalk, if you think you're
walking the way that you'resupposed to walk and you ain't
got Jesus, you ain't seensomething yet.
(20:40):
You ain't seen light.
And I think that he is justtrying to elevate people to say
come to me and.
I'll show you something youain't never seen before.
Matt Brown (20:52):
And that makes me think a lot about uh Matthew,
and talks about the blindleading the blind, and for how
many people in the world thinkthey have life figured out?
They're doing things the rightway and try to get people to
follow them, even at times fromthe best of intentions, but
they're in darkness.
Wayne Miller (21:08):
That's right.
Matt Brown (21:09):
And we can try to to find meaning and fulfillment in
, in maybe these practices orthese teachings, but you're not
going to and there's only oneplace you're going to find it
and that's in the light.
Wayne Miller (21:19):
That's right and that's to me is one of the
identities here that I see thathe is our hope, um and, and you
know, like last episode wetalked about jesus being bread
of life, and one of those thingsthat you know stood out about
jesus in that statement is thefact that he is the one sent
down from his deity.
The one thing that stands outto me about him being the light
(21:41):
of the world is just the Savior.
You know, the woman at the wellsaid you know, when those
people came from the city, theysaid this is the Savior of the
world because he is the lightand we all need it, because we
all have the problem withdarkness light and we all need
it because we all have theproblem with darkness.
Matt Miller (21:58):
You know, I'd use that example, my friend, and
when the light came, it exposedhis yard.
The light did well.
In this verse it says but allthings that are exposed, what
are exposed, the bad things, aremade manifest.
You can see them because of thelight.
And he says for whatever makesmanifest is light.
(22:20):
It's no coincidence that Jesususes that.
Wayne Miller (22:28):
And even when.
Matt Miller (22:28):
John 1, 5, where he says the light is coming to the
world and it shines in thedarkness, and the darkness can't
comprehend it.
Why?
Because they don't want to beexposed.
But if I'm willing to beexposed by the light, it changes
who I am.
It's a game changer, I mean heis.
What he is teaching is is nodoubt there's so much depth, but
(22:49):
it is really.
I mean it's so what?
I don't even I can't rememberthis saying I'm about to just
mess mean it's so.
I can't remember this sayingI'm about to just mess it up.
The scriptures are so easy towade in, but it's so deep you
could drown.
Wayne Miller (23:03):
I don't know how that that's close.
Matt Miller (23:07):
But you know, it's so easy that you can just get it
so quick, but then it's so deepbecause there's so much more to
it.
But Jesus is saying you awakethose who sleep.
Paul says arise from the deadand guess what?
Jesus will give you life.
Man, give yourself up and I'llgive you something different.
Wayne Miller (23:26):
Yeah, I love that, John 321.
He who practices truth comes tothe light so that his deeds may
be manifested, has been wroughtin God.
I mean, you know, if I'd havebeen your buddy, y'all wouldn't
have been there at daylight I'dhave kicked y'all out.
Matt Miller (23:42):
I walked out and said man dude what happened?
Matt Brown (23:44):
He's like that's why I had the party at night, dude,
and I'm like well okay.
Wayne Miller (23:48):
I get you, if I'd have known this, I'd have on
this.
I left them on.
But just what is in darkness?
Yeah, sometimes people justwant to stay there because the
light shows.
Well, there was a confidenceabout him.
Matt Miller (24:04):
This is not in disrespect.
No, he had a confidence.
You could tell that night,because nobody saw all that
stuff.
I mean, he was just movingaround.
He had them in a certain areawhere it was nice and then as
soon as the darkness ended andthe light came, I could tell on
his face.
So you about to leave or whatyou doing.
Wayne Miller (24:25):
I'm like dude what in the world?
Matt Miller (24:27):
You know, it's like this is such a perfect example.
Matt Brown (24:32):
Yeah, and I think, matt, building off what you were
talking about a minute ago, Isee Jesus's identity as a guide
in his teaching, and that's whatthe light does it guides us to
see Christ, to see the Father,and, in turn, become light to
show others the way.
All right, so let's make itreal.
Matt, you want to start us offthis time.
Matt Miller (24:50):
Man Already.
Ephesians 5, verse 15.
See, then, that you walkcircumspectly, not as fools but
as wise, redeeming the timebecause the days are evil.
I gotta recognize that now isthe time and a light's been
provided, so why don't I walk init?
(25:10):
Um, I think that that, for me,I'm with Wayne.
Ephesians 4 and 5, just talk somuch about just what Jesus is
calling himself, and that'slight.
Wayne Miller (25:24):
I would just say the Christian faith, the
obedient life, is wrapped up inone person, and that person is
Jesus, who is the light of theworld.
You take him out of theequation, guys.
We don't have anything.
We're all being darkness.
Matt Brown (25:38):
And I would say for mine different situations need
different types of light.
So like whenever my son wakesup during the night, I don't
want to turn the overhead lightson, I want the little
nightlight in the hallway orlike if I need to do something
in the kitchen or play or cleanor whatever.
I don't want a nightlight.
I want the big lights on or ifyou go outside, you may want a
(25:58):
flashlight, but if you'redriving a car at night, the
flashlight's not going to cut it.
Different situations needdifferent types of light.
And it's the same way as we workwith others in the spiritual
walk.
And I think about what Judesays, where he says have mercy
on those who doubt.
Save others by snatching themout of the fire to others.
Show mercy, hating even thegarment stained by sin.
(26:21):
Like there's times, we need tobe a nightlight.
Wayne Miller (26:23):
There are times we need to be a massive spotlight.
Matt Brown (26:27):
There's times we need to be the gentle lamp, and
all light is good, but we needthe right light in the right
situation.
Amen.
Good job, brother so maybe thatcan be our thought for this
week is be the light and be theright light, and we do that in
Christ.
So thank you, as always, forlistening.
I hope you have a great week.
(26:47):
We'll do it again soon.
Wayne Miller (26:48):
See you Out of here, here you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.