May 30, 2025 • 33 mins
What if your freedom starts with a name?
In this deeply challenging episode of Rooted & Recovered, Dan and Justin walk through Step Eight of the 12-Step journey: “Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all.”
This is the step where recovery shifts from just cleaning the inside to addressing the damage on the outside. It’s about taking ownership, facing the people you’ve hurt, and finally breaking the silence that’s been weighing you down. Real freedom demands real honesty, and this episode will push you to name the names you’ve buried, confront the wounds you’ve caused, and prepare for the kind of restoration that sets you free.
Key Highlights:
- Recovery isn’t just about what happened to you—it’s about what happened because of you
- Making a list isn’t about guilt—it’s about grace on paper
- Real change demands real ownership
- Why some people may never forgive you, and why that’s okay
- Zacchaeus and the power of radical ownership (Luke 19:1-10)
Scriptures Covered:
Matthew 5:23-24 • 2 Corinthians 5:17-18 • Luke 19:1-10
Final Truth:
Your story isn’t just about you. It’s about the people you’ve impacted, the lives you’ve touched, and the healing you’re willing to walk back into. You’re not just writing names—you’re writing the first lines of restoration.
Pray for this episode to reach someone who’s ready to step into real freedom. Like, share, and tag a friend who needs this message today.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This world doesn't hand outhealing.
It offers quick fixes, cheaphighes and empty promises, but
real recovery.
It takes roots.
Roots that dig deep into truth,into identity, into the
unshakeable grace of God.
We're not here to sugarcoat thestruggle.
(00:22):
We've lived it.
Addiction, shame, relapse,regret, but we've also seen
resurrection.
We've seen what happened.
Happens when broken people getanchored in something real
rooted and recovered is morethan a podcast.
It's a battleground for thesoul.
A place where scars tellstories, where scripture speaks
(00:43):
louder than shame, where freedomisn't just a word.
It's a war we win daily.
So if you're tired of surfacelevel answers, if you want truth
that convicts, hope that heals,and conversations that cut
through the noise, you're in theright place.
Welcome to Rooted and Recovered.
Justin (01:08):
How's everybody doing today?
This is Justin, one half of thedynamic duo rooted in recovered.
I am joined as always with Dan.
Dan, how are you doing today,Dan?
Hello,
Dan (01:18):
hello, hello.
Good to see you, brother.
Always a pleasure and honor tobe able to chill with you in the
studio and, uh, sit down and,um, share a little bit of good
news with, um, our family today.
And
Justin (01:32):
that's what this is, guys.
Um, good news.
Good news that there isrecovery.
And I'm not just talking aboutrecovery the way the world
recovers.
I'm talking about real recoverythat is rooted in Christ.
That's why we call ourselvesrooted in recovered, because
when you become rooted inChrist, you see that real
recovery is not about drugs andalcohol.
(01:54):
It's about so much more, butthere's a part we play in it.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what we've beentalking about.
We've been going over the steps.
The 12 steps and the biblicalmeanings behind them, and we've
been going kind of fast.
So what I wanna encourage you todo today is if you feel like
(02:15):
we're going too fast, rememberrecovery is not a microwave.
Stick it in there.
Three seconds, it's done.
Go back to the beginning.
Take your time, listen to whatwe're saying, look into the
scriptures, pray about it.
Realize it's a journey.
It's like a crockpot, it's likea good gumbo.
You gotta put all theingredients in and just keep
cooking it down, right?
(02:36):
This dude
Dan (02:37):
can make jambalaya like nobody's business guys.
I've had it before.
Justin (02:41):
And that's what we wanna do with our recovery.
We don't, you don't completethese steps and all of a sudden,
ding, I'm recovered.
It's, it's a process, right?
And the last three steps thatwe're gonna be getting into are
maintenance steps.
And if I'm being honest, I stillgo back to step one.
Sometimes daily if I need to.
So what I wanna encourage youwith today is take time to enjoy
(03:04):
this.
Mm-hmm.
Go back, listen.
But now you know,
Dan (03:13):
this is the part.
This is a tough one.
Justin.
This is where it gets, this is atough one.
Justin (03:18):
It's just as tough as I believe in step four for here,
because this is where not onlyare we admitting, um.
But we're gonna start owningwhat Broke Others.
Step eight says, made a list ofall persons we had harmed and
became willing, became willingto make amends to them all.
(03:43):
You see, the truth is yourfreedom might begin with their
name.
Wow, that's good.
Recovery isn't just about whathappened to you.
We like to have this, you, me,centered.
It's also about what happenedbecause of you.
Right.
And that's what we're gonna
Dan (04:03):
look at.
Well, you think about it,Justin, we, you know, we talk a
lot about what has happened tous.
We've spent a lot of timetalking about trauma and
betrayal and loss and pain, andfamily.
That's real.
That matters.
I, I'm not here to discredit anyof that at all, but family
(04:24):
recovery isn't complete if itonly stops at your wounds
because this is step eight.
It's not about your scars.
It's about the scars that you'veleft on someone else.
You see recovery, it's not justabout what happened to you, it's
about what happened because ofyou.
(04:46):
And this is where the victimstep aside and the truth steps
forward.
This is where you stopresearching what you did to
where you start owning what youdid to others.
Not to drown in guilt, not toshame yourself, but to finally
(05:08):
stop hiding behind the versionof you that doesn't tell the
whole story.
You see this step, Justin, iswhere healing goes horizontal,
where it moves from just you andGod to you and the people that
you've impacted.
Justin (05:28):
isn't that the perfect picture of the cross?
Because you've got the up anddown you and God, and this is
you opening your arms up saying,I know I made mistakes and I'm
welcoming those in, and I'mwelcoming in others.
You know, I look at my recoveryand man, I can tell you all the
things that was done to me, butit's right here.
(05:51):
When I started being real withmyself, I understood that I.
Played a big part in whathappened.
Even if I did anything or I didnothing at all, I still never
let it go.
And that caused pain to them.
(06:11):
That caused hurt to others.
And that's what this step is,taking that bold step and
saying, okay, what did I do tosomeone else?
Dan (06:19):
It's uncomfortable because you know what?
It's in this step, Justin, thatyou're gonna have to bring up
names you've buried.
It might stir up moments thatjust to be honest with you,
you'd rather forget.
But guys, this isn't aboutguilt, it's about ownership.
It's about walking back into thewake of your choices.
(06:41):
Not to relive it, but to takeresponsibility.
And prepare to repair becauseignoring the damage doesn't
erase it fam.
Naming it.
That's the first step to makingit right, because you can't heal
what you won't admit you broke.
(07:03):
You can't find peace whileyou're pretending you didn't
cause pain.
True recovery doesn't just cleanthe inside.
It cleans up the mess thatspilled out outside of you too.
And that cleanup starts with alist, a name, a moment of truth,
(07:24):
and maybe freedom that youdidn't know, Justin, you were
missing.
And if you
Justin (07:33):
think about it, the first person on that list should
be God.
Dan (07:41):
Mm-hmm.
Justin (07:43):
Because let's be honest, we all fall short of the glory
of God.
My Bible says that no one looksto do good.
So start there.
Be honest with yourself, butthen get honest with yourself
about the others.
I love what you said.
It starts with a name andoftentimes it's one buried.
It's easy for me to remember thepeople I've hurt that I didn't
(08:04):
know well.
But this is where we startowning the truth of what about
my kids?
What about my mom?
What about my dad, mygrandparents?
What about my wife?
This is us saying.
I did wrong.
And it's not me beating myselfin the face with a baseball bat
of guilt and shame.
(08:26):
It's me owning the fact that Imade mistakes.
And when you do that, you findfreedom because you realize just
like the other step, that's notwho I was but that's not who I
am.
This is us moving forward andit's a bold step and it look.
(08:47):
Make sure you've made thatcommitment to God.
Make sure you've humbledyourself because you can come
here and do this.
And I'm telling you, if you stepout on your own, you're liable
to get smacked with some truththat you didn't really want to
hear.
And you probably deserved it.
Yes, and I deserved it.
I deserved it.
And you know what the thing is,we have to realize as well, this
(09:09):
isn't about them.
Dan (09:11):
It's
Justin (09:11):
about us.
Dan (09:12):
Mm-hmm.
We gotta be real th this stepright here, it takes guts to
look in that rear view mirror.
Not at what you, not at what'sbeen done to you, but the wake
you left behind that mess youmade.
So, Justin, we don't like thispart about recovery'cause it's
(09:33):
easier to talk about the painwe've endured than the pain
we've caused.
But step eight demands.
That's why.
That's right.
I'm bold enough to say stepeight demands from us a
different kind of courage.
Not the courage just to confrontothers, but to confront your
(09:55):
past self.
This isn't about digging upshame.
This isn't about wallowing inguilt and replaying over and
over and over.
The failures that we've made inour life, guys, this is about
redemption.
It's about being honest enoughto say, that was me.
(10:15):
I did that, but that's not who Iam.
Anymore.
And Jesus gives us a challenge.
Justin, I love, and in Matthewchapter 5:23-24, and we were, I
was just talking about this withsomebody the other day.
Listen to what Jesus said.
(10:36):
He said, if you are offeringyour gift at the altar.
And there, remember that yourbrother or sister has something
against you.
Leave your gift there in frontof the altar first and go be
reconciled to them.
I.
Did you catch that?
He says, before you worship,before you sing, before you
(10:58):
serve, go get it.
Right?
Why?
Because reconciliation mattersto God.
It's not just spiritualobedience, family, it's
relational healing and makingthis list in step eight isn't
about perfection.
it's not about fixing everyrelationship overnight.
(11:19):
It's about owning your impactand saying, God, I'm ready to be
made whole.
And sometimes that person,you're restoring the most,
Justin is you.
'cause redemption begins.
Where denial ends.
And as long as you keepminimizing the damage, you'll
(11:40):
keep minimizing your growth.
But when you're bold enough toface what really happened,
healing starts to breathe again,and the door to restoration only
opens when you and I stoppretending the house isn't
damaged.
Let the list be a declaration.
(12:04):
I'm not that person anymore, butI'm willing to make it right
again.
Justin (12:12):
You was talking Dan 2nd Corinthians 5:17-18.
Therefore, if anyone is inChrist.
He's a new creation, right?
We just talked about that.
That's not who I was.
Behold, old things have passedaway.
Behold, all things have becomenew.
When you have given your life toChrist, when you have truly
(12:33):
surrendered, you are a newcreation.
But look at what he says.
Now.
All things are of God who hasreconciled us to himself through
Jesus Christ.
What'd you say, Dan?
We have to go do and has givenus the ministry.
Of reconciliation.
We are saved.
We are made whole with God,forgiven by God so that we can
(12:55):
go forgive others and we can goask.
For forgiveness from others thatwe can reconcile.
Look, you want a restoration inyour relationship.
Why don't you try owning up tothe fact that you played a part
in what hurt somebody else?
Mm-hmm.
You wanna see your family back.
I can't promise you I'm back,but I can tell you, you will
have peace when you start owningup to the fact that you were
(13:17):
probably a vital role in whythey don't want to talk to you
anymore.
Right?
We want the healing, but wedon't wanna see what really
needs healed.
We want other people just to bowdown to us because we're
different.
Sometimes it takes us not onlyhumbling ourselves before God,
but humbling ourselves beforeothers and surrendering to God's
(13:38):
will and saying, God, I'm doingthis not just for them, not just
for me, but because you asked meto.
I know I've made a mess of mylife.
When I went and made amends, Iwent never expecting to hear.
(13:59):
I forgive you.
I went just to get it off of mychest.
And you know what?
That's boldness.
That's walking by faith and notby sight.
Dan (14:15):
This step, Justin, requires us to realize that.
Uh, your story.
My story isn't just about you.
Mm.
It's not just about me.
You see up to this point, thesesteps, you know, uh, recovery,
(14:36):
it's, it's felt very personal.
You know, our pain, our past,our healing.
But now step eight brings acrucial truth into focus your
story.
Isn't just about you.
You see the ripple effects ofyour addiction.
(14:57):
Your selfishness fear, yourbrokenness.
They didn't stay contained.
They always reached Justin forsomeone else.
Someone in your life lost sleepbecause of your chaos.
Somebody cried.
(15:18):
Because of your choices.
And the truth is somebody stillflinches at the sound of your
name and Step eight doesn't justask you to reflect.
It's asking you to stand up as aman or a woman and take
(15:39):
responsibility in this listfamily.
It's not just a paper of names.
It's the beginning ofrestoration.
But hear this, this isn't aboutfixing your past because I'm
gonna be honest with you,sometimes there's just things
you've done in life that can'tbe undone.
(16:00):
This isn't about facing it.
This is about facing it,honestly, humbly and with grace.
Grace says, I see what I did.
I still believe God can use me.
Grace that doesn't excuse thedamage but refuses to be defined
(16:24):
by it.
Grace that says, I'm not thatperson anymore, but I care about
the pain that that individualstill carries because when you
make this list family, you'renot reopening wounds.
You're preparing for healing,you're owning your part.
(16:46):
You're refusing to hide behindthat, that this is in the past,
and that kind of ownership,Justin, is where freedom begins
to multiply.
Justin (17:00):
You know, there's a saying, hurt people, hurt
people.
We love to use that when we'retalking about ourselves, right?
Oh yeah, they hurt me, but theywere hurt.
This is us admitting that wewere hurt and because of that
hurt, we hurt people.
(17:22):
You know, I watched whathappened in my household growing
up and when I got older, part ofme let that happen.
It doesn't take away from thefact of what had happened in my
past, but I wanted healing, so Ihad to admit that I had done
(17:44):
something just as wrong.
But when I did and I offeredthat and I owned it, I seen
restoration.
Now, like you said, there's somepeople.
You're gonna offer and you'regonna own, and they're just
gonna flinch, but you can sleepwell at night because the peace
(18:10):
is about what happened to them.
And we hold on to that.
Mm-hmm.
We hold on to what we did topeople.
Right.
This is us letting it go.
Just like we talked about withour character defects.
This is us letting it go andowning it and saying, you're
right, God.
I'm gonna let it go and I'mgonna offer to make amends with
(18:34):
these people because theydeserve it.
I deserve it, and you deserveit.
Dan (18:42):
I mean, if I'm honest with you, Justin, I did some really
horrible things to people, youknow, in my addiction and
unfortunately, we can't rewritewhat happened.
What we can do is stoppretending it didn't matter.
You see why?
Because when you stopdownplaying the damage, you
(19:06):
start reclaiming your dignity.
When you stop justifying whatyou did, you start becoming who
God always intended you to be.
This isn't about changing thestory.
It's about walking back into thewreckage with grace.
Grace in your heart and growthin your steps.
(19:31):
And when I think about this,Justin, I think about Zacchaeus
and you'll read about the storyof Zacchaeus in Luke chapter 19.
Uh, the first 10 verses talkabout this guy, but Zacchaeus
was the kind of guy, Justin,that most people avoided.
(19:52):
He wasn't just a tax collector.
The Bible said that he was achief tax collector, and that
day that meant that he wascorrupt.
He was greedy.
He was hated.
And what Zacchaeus did was hegot rich from stealing from his
own people.
Something happened inside himand it was stirring.
(20:19):
He heard about Jesus.
He, the Bible says that he wasdesperate for just a glimpse of
Jesus.
And apparently he was a shortguy, Justin.
Um, so to see over the crowd, heran up and the Bible says that
he climbed up into this tree.
That alone right there tells methat this guy was hungry for
(20:41):
change because grown men don'tnormally climb trees in that
culture.
Mm-hmm.
Especially not rich ones.
But I have to believe with allmy heart, Justin, that at this
point in time, Zacchaeus wasdone pretending he was ready to
be different.
Jesus sees him and he calls himby name and he says, come down
(21:06):
immediately.
I must stay at your house today.
And just like that family,everything shift.
Zacchaeus, comes down not justfrom the tree, but from that old
life.
He doesn't wait for a sermon.
He doesn't ask what he has todo.
He takes initiative.
(21:26):
He says that if I cheatedanybody outta anything, I will
pay them back four times theamount.
Guys, that's steps eight andnine in motion right there.
Honest reflection and radicalownership.
And Jesus doesn't say, whoa,whoa.
Slow down you that.
(21:47):
That's a bit too much.
No, he says today.
Salvation has come to thishouse.
Why?
Because Zacchaeus didn't justfeel bad, he stepped forward.
He didn't just wait forforgiveness.
He wanted to make it right.
And that's what happens whenGrace really grabs a hold of
(22:08):
someone.
Justin.
It moves them to do more thanconfess it.
It moves them to restore theevidence.
Family, listen to me.
The evidence of a changed heartis a willingness to make things
right.
Justin (22:28):
You know, one of my favorite parts of that story is
Jesus knew his name, listenerJesus knows your name.
Jesus knew what had done, yet hestill wished to go to his house
and eat dinner.
(22:48):
That tree that Zacchaeus climbedGod planted long before
Zacchaeus was ever in there.
That's good knowing, knowingthat one day Zacchaeus would
climb it.
Don't think that God doesn'tknow.
Don't think you're gonnasurprise him by saying, well,
God, I don't know if you know Idid this.
(23:09):
He knows.
He knows he was there.
He probably had tears in hiseyes, not only for the person it
happened to, but for you becausehe knew at the pain it was
causing you in the moment, andyet he still comes.
He says your name and he says,today I want to go with you and
I love what you said.
(23:29):
This is a perfect example ofstep eight and nine.
Zacchaeus says, I want to giveback four times as much.
I recognize that I've done wrongYou think a politician is bad?
This, this guy, he would've madesome of the worst politicians we
know look good because he wasbasically getting over on his
own people and yet he waswilling to give back.
(23:51):
Do you know that that would've,well, he would've ended up poor
'cause he would've had to giveit all back.
But think about his pride.
Think about what that would doto somebody to go and say, Hey,
I know I've been cheating youand I want to give back.
You think those people that hetook from were sitting there
(24:13):
going, oh, cool.
Thanks man.
No, they were probably had somepretty mean things to say to
him.
Well, I'm sure they did, but yethe still did it because it
didn't matter because herecognized the wrong owned it.
And was willing to make itright, and that's what God
wants.
This is a step where God is us.
God is asking us, are youwilling to make it right?
Look, we're gonna talk aboutmaking it right, but right here
(24:35):
before we make it right.
We have to be willing to make itright.
We have to be willing to bewilling.
This is us choosing, like Isaid, the power we have is in
the choice.
This is us choosing to say, God,I want to make it right with
this person.
I wanna make it right with thisperson.
It's hard, right?
(24:56):
So if, if you can't, if there'ssome people you're looking at
and you're thinking, man, that'sgonna take some time.
Dan (25:02):
Let it happen in God's time.
And I have to believe Justin,that you know, he wanted to make
it right, even knowing that somepeople would never forgive him.
Justin (25:14):
Yeah.
Dan (25:15):
Think about that for just a moment.
Justin (25:18):
Never
Dan (25:18):
family.
There is gonna be people in yourlife that are never gonna
forgive you.
And I know that's tough, that isa hard pill to swallow because
we all want to be forgiven.
We all want that, that freedomof, uh, just, just being free
from our past.
But like I said, just a fewmoments ago, man, there's some
(25:41):
things that you've done in yourlife that you can't undo and
people are not gonna forgiveyou.
But you still, like Zacchaeus isgotta be willing to step forward
and make it right, because thisis what happens guys, when
Grace, when you experience thatgrace, this is grace, bleeding
(26:04):
and showing through you.
It's way more than confessionfamily at this point.
It's moving to restoration.
See, because you don't have toprove.
Transformation by knowing theBible, you show it by going back
to the people you hurt and bysaying I was wrong and I want to
(26:26):
make it right.
Family.
That's not weakness, that'smaturity, that's freedom.
That's a Zacchaeus moment rightthere.
But I gotta ask you as we getready to wrap this podcast up.
Justin, this is where the rubbermeets the road.
(26:46):
It's one thing to admit you'vecaused pain.
It's another thing to startnaming the people who carry that
pain.
So here it is.
Start a list.
Not tomorrow, not when it'scomfortable.
Now.
No editing, no excuses, nofilters.
(27:07):
Don't wait until you feel likeit.
Just pick up the pen and startwriting.
And don't write names based onwho you think deserves it.
Write names based on who wasimpacted, who got caught in the
crossfire of your addiction,your anger, your fear, your
(27:28):
silence, and ask yourself.
Who's still bleeding from my oldlife while I'm out here trying
to build a new one?
Because step eight isn't justabout fixing them.
It's about freeing you, and it'snot whether they'll accept your
(27:49):
apology.
It's about whether you'rewilling to face your truth and
stop carrying the weight ofsilence.
This list isn't about guilt.
It's about grace.
On paper, It's about thebeginning process of making
peace with your old self thatyou left behind.
(28:13):
Ask yourself this.
Am I willing to face this?
Not because they need it, butbecause I need it to be free.
Justin (28:24):
I love what you said.
Don't write down who you thinkdeserves it, because let me tell
you something, you didn'tdeserve the grace of God yet.
He wrote your name in the bookof life when you came to him and
gave your life to him.
Be honest with yourself.
Take an open, honest look.
(28:46):
Put their name on paper, andlike I said.
You just have to be willing tobe willing.
It might take time for you tomake amends, but in God's time
it will happen.
But right now we're asking youto start owning that.
You need to make amends becausethat's what this is about, guys.
(29:10):
It's a tough step.
It's gonna seem impossible todo.
What God's asking you to do.
But if we have are in Christ, ifwe have done the first three
steps, if we have committed ourcare and our will over to him
(29:30):
and we have truly surrendered,then he has given us a helper.
He has placed the Holy Spiritinside of you to help you with
this.
And I'm telling you, he'sbegging with you.
He's pleading with you.
Let it go.
Get real, get raw, getrecovered.
Dan (29:52):
Fa family.
You're not writing names, you'rewriting the first lines of
restoration, that name you writedown.
That's not just a person, it's astep to becoming the man or
woman God always intended you tobe.
And you know what?
(30:12):
You may never get a chance tosay sorry, and they may never
accept your apology, but thislist, it's your declaration.
I'm not running anymore.
I'm ready to make it right.
And that my friends, is thebeginning of freedom.
(30:36):
Justin, is there anything youwant to close with brother?
Justin (30:40):
You know, Peter denied Jesus three times.
He sat at a fire with Jesusbefore he ascended into heaven,
and three times Jesus asked, doyou love me?
Peter came face to face withJesus in that moment.
You know what Jesus said, thengo tend to my sheep.
(31:03):
Look.
That is what we are doing.
We are coming face to face withthe reality that we have made
mistakes, that we have hurtothers, and we are saying, I
still love you, not on my own,but because Christ loves me
guys, I can't stress thisenough.
(31:23):
Somebody needs to hear this.
If you're in the room with us,I'm telling the Holy Spirit's
here every time.
Share this podcast.
Like, subscribe, tell others.
Get the word out there that youcan be rooted and recovered in
Christ, and that there is lifeand life more abundantly.
(31:44):
Help us share the good news thatnot only does Jesus Christ save,
he redeems.
He restores, and he grows us inthat grace that we've talked
about so much here.
Dan (31:57):
Amen.
Amen and amen.
Family, this list.
It's two things.
It's a mirror and it's a map.
Be bold enough to face thereflection and at the same time,
be brave enough to walk the roadback.
Until next time, my friends stayrooted, stay recovered, and
(32:20):
let's get to work.
You are not just surviving.
You are becoming, becomingrooted in truth, becoming
recovered by grace, and becomingthe person God always knew you
could be.
Thanks for joining us on Rootedin Recovered.
If this episode stirredsomething in you, don't keep it
(32:43):
to yourself.
Share it, live it, let it takeroot.
We'll see you next time righthere where scars become
testimonies and hope rises fromthe ashes.
This world doesn't hand outhealing.
It offers quick fixes, cheaphighes and empty promises, but
real recovery.
It takes roots.
Roots that dig deep into truth,into identity, into the
unshakeable grace of God.
We're not here to sugarcoat thestruggle.
(00:22):
We've lived it.
Addiction, shame, relapse,regret, but we've also seen
resurrection.
We've seen what happened.
Happens when broken people getanchored in something real
rooted and recovered is morethan a podcast.
It's a battleground for thesoul.
A place where scars tellstories, where scripture speaks
(00:43):
louder than shame, where freedomisn't just a word.
It's a war we win daily.
So if you're tired of surfacelevel answers, if you want truth
that convicts, hope that heals,and conversations that cut
through the noise, you're in theright place.
Welcome to Rooted and Recovered.
Justin (01:08):
How's everybody doing today?
This is Justin, one half of thedynamic duo rooted in recovered.
I am joined as always with Dan.
Dan, how are you doing today,Dan?
Hello,
Dan (01:18):
hello, hello.
Good to see you, brother.
Always a pleasure and honor tobe able to chill with you in the
studio and, uh, sit down and,um, share a little bit of good
news with, um, our family today.
And
Justin (01:32):
that's what this is, guys.
Um, good news.
Good news that there isrecovery.
And I'm not just talking aboutrecovery the way the world
recovers.
I'm talking about real recoverythat is rooted in Christ.
That's why we call ourselvesrooted in recovered, because
when you become rooted inChrist, you see that real
recovery is not about drugs andalcohol.
(01:54):
It's about so much more, butthere's a part we play in it.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what we've beentalking about.
We've been going over the steps.
The 12 steps and the biblicalmeanings behind them, and we've
been going kind of fast.
So what I wanna encourage you todo today is if you feel like
(02:15):
we're going too fast, rememberrecovery is not a microwave.
Stick it in there.
Three seconds, it's done.
Go back to the beginning.
Take your time, listen to whatwe're saying, look into the
scriptures, pray about it.
Realize it's a journey.
It's like a crockpot, it's likea good gumbo.
You gotta put all theingredients in and just keep
cooking it down, right?
(02:36):
This dude
Dan (02:37):
can make jambalaya like nobody's business guys.
I've had it before.
Justin (02:41):
And that's what we wanna do with our recovery.
We don't, you don't completethese steps and all of a sudden,
ding, I'm recovered.
It's, it's a process, right?
And the last three steps thatwe're gonna be getting into are
maintenance steps.
And if I'm being honest, I stillgo back to step one.
Sometimes daily if I need to.
So what I wanna encourage youwith today is take time to enjoy
(03:04):
this.
Mm-hmm.
Go back, listen.
But now you know,
Dan (03:13):
this is the part.
This is a tough one.
Justin.
This is where it gets, this is atough one.
Justin (03:18):
It's just as tough as I believe in step four for here,
because this is where not onlyare we admitting, um.
But we're gonna start owningwhat Broke Others.
Step eight says, made a list ofall persons we had harmed and
became willing, became willingto make amends to them all.
(03:43):
You see, the truth is yourfreedom might begin with their
name.
Wow, that's good.
Recovery isn't just about whathappened to you.
We like to have this, you, me,centered.
It's also about what happenedbecause of you.
Right.
And that's what we're gonna
Dan (04:03):
look at.
Well, you think about it,Justin, we, you know, we talk a
lot about what has happened tous.
We've spent a lot of timetalking about trauma and
betrayal and loss and pain, andfamily.
That's real.
That matters.
I, I'm not here to discredit anyof that at all, but family
(04:24):
recovery isn't complete if itonly stops at your wounds
because this is step eight.
It's not about your scars.
It's about the scars that you'veleft on someone else.
You see recovery, it's not justabout what happened to you, it's
about what happened because ofyou.
(04:46):
And this is where the victimstep aside and the truth steps
forward.
This is where you stopresearching what you did to
where you start owning what youdid to others.
Not to drown in guilt, not toshame yourself, but to finally
(05:08):
stop hiding behind the versionof you that doesn't tell the
whole story.
You see this step, Justin, iswhere healing goes horizontal,
where it moves from just you andGod to you and the people that
you've impacted.
Justin (05:28):
isn't that the perfect picture of the cross?
Because you've got the up anddown you and God, and this is
you opening your arms up saying,I know I made mistakes and I'm
welcoming those in, and I'mwelcoming in others.
You know, I look at my recoveryand man, I can tell you all the
things that was done to me, butit's right here.
(05:51):
When I started being real withmyself, I understood that I.
Played a big part in whathappened.
Even if I did anything or I didnothing at all, I still never
let it go.
And that caused pain to them.
(06:11):
That caused hurt to others.
And that's what this step is,taking that bold step and
saying, okay, what did I do tosomeone else?
Dan (06:19):
It's uncomfortable because you know what?
It's in this step, Justin, thatyou're gonna have to bring up
names you've buried.
It might stir up moments thatjust to be honest with you,
you'd rather forget.
But guys, this isn't aboutguilt, it's about ownership.
It's about walking back into thewake of your choices.
(06:41):
Not to relive it, but to takeresponsibility.
And prepare to repair becauseignoring the damage doesn't
erase it fam.
Naming it.
That's the first step to makingit right, because you can't heal
what you won't admit you broke.
(07:03):
You can't find peace whileyou're pretending you didn't
cause pain.
True recovery doesn't just cleanthe inside.
It cleans up the mess thatspilled out outside of you too.
And that cleanup starts with alist, a name, a moment of truth,
(07:24):
and maybe freedom that youdidn't know, Justin, you were
missing.
And if you
Justin (07:33):
think about it, the first person on that list should
be God.
Dan (07:41):
Mm-hmm.
Justin (07:43):
Because let's be honest, we all fall short of the glory
of God.
My Bible says that no one looksto do good.
So start there.
Be honest with yourself, butthen get honest with yourself
about the others.
I love what you said.
It starts with a name andoftentimes it's one buried.
It's easy for me to remember thepeople I've hurt that I didn't
(08:04):
know well.
But this is where we startowning the truth of what about
my kids?
What about my mom?
What about my dad, mygrandparents?
What about my wife?
This is us saying.
I did wrong.
And it's not me beating myselfin the face with a baseball bat
of guilt and shame.
(08:26):
It's me owning the fact that Imade mistakes.
And when you do that, you findfreedom because you realize just
like the other step, that's notwho I was but that's not who I
am.
This is us moving forward andit's a bold step and it look.
(08:47):
Make sure you've made thatcommitment to God.
Make sure you've humbledyourself because you can come
here and do this.
And I'm telling you, if you stepout on your own, you're liable
to get smacked with some truththat you didn't really want to
hear.
And you probably deserved it.
Yes, and I deserved it.
I deserved it.
And you know what the thing is,we have to realize as well, this
(09:09):
isn't about them.
Dan (09:11):
It's
Justin (09:11):
about us.
Dan (09:12):
Mm-hmm.
We gotta be real th this stepright here, it takes guts to
look in that rear view mirror.
Not at what you, not at what'sbeen done to you, but the wake
you left behind that mess youmade.
So, Justin, we don't like thispart about recovery'cause it's
(09:33):
easier to talk about the painwe've endured than the pain
we've caused.
But step eight demands.
That's why.
That's right.
I'm bold enough to say stepeight demands from us a
different kind of courage.
Not the courage just to confrontothers, but to confront your
(09:55):
past self.
This isn't about digging upshame.
This isn't about wallowing inguilt and replaying over and
over and over.
The failures that we've made inour life, guys, this is about
redemption.
It's about being honest enoughto say, that was me.
(10:15):
I did that, but that's not who Iam.
Anymore.
And Jesus gives us a challenge.
Justin, I love, and in Matthewchapter 5:23-24, and we were, I
was just talking about this withsomebody the other day.
Listen to what Jesus said.
(10:36):
He said, if you are offeringyour gift at the altar.
And there, remember that yourbrother or sister has something
against you.
Leave your gift there in frontof the altar first and go be
reconciled to them.
I.
Did you catch that?
He says, before you worship,before you sing, before you
(10:58):
serve, go get it.
Right?
Why?
Because reconciliation mattersto God.
It's not just spiritualobedience, family, it's
relational healing and makingthis list in step eight isn't
about perfection.
it's not about fixing everyrelationship overnight.
(11:19):
It's about owning your impactand saying, God, I'm ready to be
made whole.
And sometimes that person,you're restoring the most,
Justin is you.
'cause redemption begins.
Where denial ends.
And as long as you keepminimizing the damage, you'll
(11:40):
keep minimizing your growth.
But when you're bold enough toface what really happened,
healing starts to breathe again,and the door to restoration only
opens when you and I stoppretending the house isn't
damaged.
Let the list be a declaration.
(12:04):
I'm not that person anymore, butI'm willing to make it right
again.
Justin (12:12):
You was talking Dan 2nd Corinthians 5:17-18.
Therefore, if anyone is inChrist.
He's a new creation, right?
We just talked about that.
That's not who I was.
Behold, old things have passedaway.
Behold, all things have becomenew.
When you have given your life toChrist, when you have truly
(12:33):
surrendered, you are a newcreation.
But look at what he says.
Now.
All things are of God who hasreconciled us to himself through
Jesus Christ.
What'd you say, Dan?
We have to go do and has givenus the ministry.
Of reconciliation.
We are saved.
We are made whole with God,forgiven by God so that we can
(12:55):
go forgive others and we can goask.
For forgiveness from others thatwe can reconcile.
Look, you want a restoration inyour relationship.
Why don't you try owning up tothe fact that you played a part
in what hurt somebody else?
Mm-hmm.
You wanna see your family back.
I can't promise you I'm back,but I can tell you, you will
have peace when you start owningup to the fact that you were
(13:17):
probably a vital role in whythey don't want to talk to you
anymore.
Right?
We want the healing, but wedon't wanna see what really
needs healed.
We want other people just to bowdown to us because we're
different.
Sometimes it takes us not onlyhumbling ourselves before God,
but humbling ourselves beforeothers and surrendering to God's
(13:38):
will and saying, God, I'm doingthis not just for them, not just
for me, but because you asked meto.
I know I've made a mess of mylife.
When I went and made amends, Iwent never expecting to hear.
(13:59):
I forgive you.
I went just to get it off of mychest.
And you know what?
That's boldness.
That's walking by faith and notby sight.
Dan (14:15):
This step, Justin, requires us to realize that.
Uh, your story.
My story isn't just about you.
Mm.
It's not just about me.
You see up to this point, thesesteps, you know, uh, recovery,
(14:36):
it's, it's felt very personal.
You know, our pain, our past,our healing.
But now step eight brings acrucial truth into focus your
story.
Isn't just about you.
You see the ripple effects ofyour addiction.
(14:57):
Your selfishness fear, yourbrokenness.
They didn't stay contained.
They always reached Justin forsomeone else.
Someone in your life lost sleepbecause of your chaos.
Somebody cried.
(15:18):
Because of your choices.
And the truth is somebody stillflinches at the sound of your
name and Step eight doesn't justask you to reflect.
It's asking you to stand up as aman or a woman and take
(15:39):
responsibility in this listfamily.
It's not just a paper of names.
It's the beginning ofrestoration.
But hear this, this isn't aboutfixing your past because I'm
gonna be honest with you,sometimes there's just things
you've done in life that can'tbe undone.
(16:00):
This isn't about facing it.
This is about facing it,honestly, humbly and with grace.
Grace says, I see what I did.
I still believe God can use me.
Grace that doesn't excuse thedamage but refuses to be defined
(16:24):
by it.
Grace that says, I'm not thatperson anymore, but I care about
the pain that that individualstill carries because when you
make this list family, you'renot reopening wounds.
You're preparing for healing,you're owning your part.
(16:46):
You're refusing to hide behindthat, that this is in the past,
and that kind of ownership,Justin, is where freedom begins
to multiply.
Justin (17:00):
You know, there's a saying, hurt people, hurt
people.
We love to use that when we'retalking about ourselves, right?
Oh yeah, they hurt me, but theywere hurt.
This is us admitting that wewere hurt and because of that
hurt, we hurt people.
(17:22):
You know, I watched whathappened in my household growing
up and when I got older, part ofme let that happen.
It doesn't take away from thefact of what had happened in my
past, but I wanted healing, so Ihad to admit that I had done
(17:44):
something just as wrong.
But when I did and I offeredthat and I owned it, I seen
restoration.
Now, like you said, there's somepeople.
You're gonna offer and you'regonna own, and they're just
gonna flinch, but you can sleepwell at night because the peace
(18:10):
is about what happened to them.
And we hold on to that.
Mm-hmm.
We hold on to what we did topeople.
Right.
This is us letting it go.
Just like we talked about withour character defects.
This is us letting it go andowning it and saying, you're
right, God.
I'm gonna let it go and I'mgonna offer to make amends with
(18:34):
these people because theydeserve it.
I deserve it, and you deserveit.
Dan (18:42):
I mean, if I'm honest with you, Justin, I did some really
horrible things to people, youknow, in my addiction and
unfortunately, we can't rewritewhat happened.
What we can do is stoppretending it didn't matter.
You see why?
Because when you stopdownplaying the damage, you
(19:06):
start reclaiming your dignity.
When you stop justifying whatyou did, you start becoming who
God always intended you to be.
This isn't about changing thestory.
It's about walking back into thewreckage with grace.
Grace in your heart and growthin your steps.
(19:31):
And when I think about this,Justin, I think about Zacchaeus
and you'll read about the storyof Zacchaeus in Luke chapter 19.
Uh, the first 10 verses talkabout this guy, but Zacchaeus
was the kind of guy, Justin,that most people avoided.
(19:52):
He wasn't just a tax collector.
The Bible said that he was achief tax collector, and that
day that meant that he wascorrupt.
He was greedy.
He was hated.
And what Zacchaeus did was hegot rich from stealing from his
own people.
Something happened inside himand it was stirring.
(20:19):
He heard about Jesus.
He, the Bible says that he wasdesperate for just a glimpse of
Jesus.
And apparently he was a shortguy, Justin.
Um, so to see over the crowd, heran up and the Bible says that
he climbed up into this tree.
That alone right there tells methat this guy was hungry for
(20:41):
change because grown men don'tnormally climb trees in that
culture.
Mm-hmm.
Especially not rich ones.
But I have to believe with allmy heart, Justin, that at this
point in time, Zacchaeus wasdone pretending he was ready to
be different.
Jesus sees him and he calls himby name and he says, come down
(21:06):
immediately.
I must stay at your house today.
And just like that family,everything shift.
Zacchaeus, comes down not justfrom the tree, but from that old
life.
He doesn't wait for a sermon.
He doesn't ask what he has todo.
He takes initiative.
(21:26):
He says that if I cheatedanybody outta anything, I will
pay them back four times theamount.
Guys, that's steps eight andnine in motion right there.
Honest reflection and radicalownership.
And Jesus doesn't say, whoa,whoa.
Slow down you that.
(21:47):
That's a bit too much.
No, he says today.
Salvation has come to thishouse.
Why?
Because Zacchaeus didn't justfeel bad, he stepped forward.
He didn't just wait forforgiveness.
He wanted to make it right.
And that's what happens whenGrace really grabs a hold of
(22:08):
someone.
Justin.
It moves them to do more thanconfess it.
It moves them to restore theevidence.
Family, listen to me.
The evidence of a changed heartis a willingness to make things
right.
Justin (22:28):
You know, one of my favorite parts of that story is
Jesus knew his name, listenerJesus knows your name.
Jesus knew what had done, yet hestill wished to go to his house
and eat dinner.
(22:48):
That tree that Zacchaeus climbedGod planted long before
Zacchaeus was ever in there.
That's good knowing, knowingthat one day Zacchaeus would
climb it.
Don't think that God doesn'tknow.
Don't think you're gonnasurprise him by saying, well,
God, I don't know if you know Idid this.
(23:09):
He knows.
He knows he was there.
He probably had tears in hiseyes, not only for the person it
happened to, but for you becausehe knew at the pain it was
causing you in the moment, andyet he still comes.
He says your name and he says,today I want to go with you and
I love what you said.
(23:29):
This is a perfect example ofstep eight and nine.
Zacchaeus says, I want to giveback four times as much.
I recognize that I've done wrongYou think a politician is bad?
This, this guy, he would've madesome of the worst politicians we
know look good because he wasbasically getting over on his
own people and yet he waswilling to give back.
(23:51):
Do you know that that would've,well, he would've ended up poor
'cause he would've had to giveit all back.
But think about his pride.
Think about what that would doto somebody to go and say, Hey,
I know I've been cheating youand I want to give back.
You think those people that hetook from were sitting there
(24:13):
going, oh, cool.
Thanks man.
No, they were probably had somepretty mean things to say to
him.
Well, I'm sure they did, but yethe still did it because it
didn't matter because herecognized the wrong owned it.
And was willing to make itright, and that's what God
wants.
This is a step where God is us.
God is asking us, are youwilling to make it right?
Look, we're gonna talk aboutmaking it right, but right here
(24:35):
before we make it right.
We have to be willing to make itright.
We have to be willing to bewilling.
This is us choosing, like Isaid, the power we have is in
the choice.
This is us choosing to say, God,I want to make it right with
this person.
I wanna make it right with thisperson.
It's hard, right?
(24:56):
So if, if you can't, if there'ssome people you're looking at
and you're thinking, man, that'sgonna take some time.
Dan (25:02):
Let it happen in God's time.
And I have to believe Justin,that you know, he wanted to make
it right, even knowing that somepeople would never forgive him.
Justin (25:14):
Yeah.
Dan (25:15):
Think about that for just a moment.
Justin (25:18):
Never
Dan (25:18):
family.
There is gonna be people in yourlife that are never gonna
forgive you.
And I know that's tough, that isa hard pill to swallow because
we all want to be forgiven.
We all want that, that freedomof, uh, just, just being free
from our past.
But like I said, just a fewmoments ago, man, there's some
(25:41):
things that you've done in yourlife that you can't undo and
people are not gonna forgiveyou.
But you still, like Zacchaeus isgotta be willing to step forward
and make it right, because thisis what happens guys, when
Grace, when you experience thatgrace, this is grace, bleeding
(26:04):
and showing through you.
It's way more than confessionfamily at this point.
It's moving to restoration.
See, because you don't have toprove.
Transformation by knowing theBible, you show it by going back
to the people you hurt and bysaying I was wrong and I want to
(26:26):
make it right.
Family.
That's not weakness, that'smaturity, that's freedom.
That's a Zacchaeus moment rightthere.
But I gotta ask you as we getready to wrap this podcast up.
Justin, this is where the rubbermeets the road.
(26:46):
It's one thing to admit you'vecaused pain.
It's another thing to startnaming the people who carry that
pain.
So here it is.
Start a list.
Not tomorrow, not when it'scomfortable.
Now.
No editing, no excuses, nofilters.
(27:07):
Don't wait until you feel likeit.
Just pick up the pen and startwriting.
And don't write names based onwho you think deserves it.
Write names based on who wasimpacted, who got caught in the
crossfire of your addiction,your anger, your fear, your
(27:28):
silence, and ask yourself.
Who's still bleeding from my oldlife while I'm out here trying
to build a new one?
Because step eight isn't justabout fixing them.
It's about freeing you, and it'snot whether they'll accept your
(27:49):
apology.
It's about whether you'rewilling to face your truth and
stop carrying the weight ofsilence.
This list isn't about guilt.
It's about grace.
On paper, It's about thebeginning process of making
peace with your old self thatyou left behind.
(28:13):
Ask yourself this.
Am I willing to face this?
Not because they need it, butbecause I need it to be free.
Justin (28:24):
I love what you said.
Don't write down who you thinkdeserves it, because let me tell
you something, you didn'tdeserve the grace of God yet.
He wrote your name in the bookof life when you came to him and
gave your life to him.
Be honest with yourself.
Take an open, honest look.
(28:46):
Put their name on paper, andlike I said.
You just have to be willing tobe willing.
It might take time for you tomake amends, but in God's time
it will happen.
But right now we're asking youto start owning that.
You need to make amends becausethat's what this is about, guys.
(29:10):
It's a tough step.
It's gonna seem impossible todo.
What God's asking you to do.
But if we have are in Christ, ifwe have done the first three
steps, if we have committed ourcare and our will over to him
(29:30):
and we have truly surrendered,then he has given us a helper.
He has placed the Holy Spiritinside of you to help you with
this.
And I'm telling you, he'sbegging with you.
He's pleading with you.
Let it go.
Get real, get raw, getrecovered.
Dan (29:52):
Fa family.
You're not writing names, you'rewriting the first lines of
restoration, that name you writedown.
That's not just a person, it's astep to becoming the man or
woman God always intended you tobe.
And you know what?
(30:12):
You may never get a chance tosay sorry, and they may never
accept your apology, but thislist, it's your declaration.
I'm not running anymore.
I'm ready to make it right.
And that my friends, is thebeginning of freedom.
(30:36):
Justin, is there anything youwant to close with brother?
Justin (30:40):
You know, Peter denied Jesus three times.
He sat at a fire with Jesusbefore he ascended into heaven,
and three times Jesus asked, doyou love me?
Peter came face to face withJesus in that moment.
You know what Jesus said, thengo tend to my sheep.
(31:03):
Look.
That is what we are doing.
We are coming face to face withthe reality that we have made
mistakes, that we have hurtothers, and we are saying, I
still love you, not on my own,but because Christ loves me
guys, I can't stress thisenough.
(31:23):
Somebody needs to hear this.
If you're in the room with us,I'm telling the Holy Spirit's
here every time.
Share this podcast.
Like, subscribe, tell others.
Get the word out there that youcan be rooted and recovered in
Christ, and that there is lifeand life more abundantly.
(31:44):
Help us share the good news thatnot only does Jesus Christ save,
he redeems.
He restores, and he grows us inthat grace that we've talked
about so much here.
Dan (31:57):
Amen.
Amen and amen.
Family, this list.
It's two things.
It's a mirror and it's a map.
Be bold enough to face thereflection and at the same time,
be brave enough to walk the roadback.
Until next time, my friends stayrooted, stay recovered, and
(32:20):
let's get to work.
You are not just surviving.
You are becoming, becomingrooted in truth, becoming
recovered by grace, and becomingthe person God always knew you
could be.
Thanks for joining us on Rootedin Recovered.
If this episode stirredsomething in you, don't keep it
(32:43):
to yourself.
Share it, live it, let it takeroot.
We'll see you next time righthere where scars become
testimonies and hope rises fromthe ashes.
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.