Ep 75 – The Pacific – Discussing Episodes 1-3 and a Lot of Bob Leckie (Part One)

In this episode of Rosie the Reviewer, Bec returns to the pod to talk about the first three episodes of our favourite HBO War drama The Pacific (2010). Together, we discuss the show's opening, the amazing theme, the great friendships... and we can't stop gushing about Bob Leckie. Sorry. Not really.

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to Rosie the Reviewer. We're your host.
I'm Sam. And I'm.
And we like World War 2 media and we want to talk about it.
Welcome back to Rosie the reviewer.
We are at long last starting ourseries on The Pacific, which is
a miniseries that came out in 2010.

(00:22):
It was created by Bruce McKenna and executive produced by Tom
Hanks, Steven Spielberg and GaryGatesman.
It's part of the HBO War, World War 2 collection along with Band
of Brothers and Masters of the Air.
And we do have episodes on thoseif you guys want to go check
those out. The Pacific follows the United
States Marine Corps in the Pacific theatre of operations
during World War 2 focused Pacific basically on the wartime

(00:45):
service of three real Marines. They are Robert Leckie, Eugene
Sledge, and John Bazelone. Robert Leckie and Eugene Sledge
wrote memoirs after the War, Helmet for My Pillow and With
The Old Breed at Pelilu and Okinawa, respectively, upon
which much of the action is based.
It also pulls from several othersources, including Red Blood,
Black Sand, the memoir of Chuck Tatum, who was trained by and

(01:07):
fought with John Bazelone at IwoJima.
It's available wherever you can access HBO, which is on Crave in
Canada. And We Are.
We're joined today by our guest Beck, who was last with us on
our Laugh a Minute Fury episode and who is a big Robert Lucky
head. So welcome back back.
Hi, thank you. So glad that my standing for a
deceased white guy is what's really distinguishing me in the

(01:30):
world. He is great though, I love him.
Let's talk about our, maybe our general impressions.
Mark, what's your How do you feel about the Pacific?
My stance on the Pacific has changed throughout the years,
and it's my favorite out of the three.
It used to be Ben of Brothers, but the Pacific just has a more

(01:51):
almost critical few of the war and I like how gritty it is.
It's also at the same time my least favorite thing about it is
how gritty this side. It's like double edged sword I
guess. But I really like the music and
this as well and I love the acting.
I remember when I first watched it, it was kind of a gutsy

(02:13):
pleasure watch because I was watching everything that Joe
Mozella was in. But now Eugene Sludge, as much
as I like him, is not my favorite character anymore, so
I've moved on to other things. I don't know, the acting is
great. I like all the storylines now.
I never used to, but I do now. And yeah, it's good.

(02:35):
I like it. How about you Duck?
So it's also my favorite. I think it has been my favorite.
I am about to confess some deep World War 2 history nerd shame
and say that I actually didn't even finish Masters of the Year
because it didn't hold my attention well enough.
I love Band of Brothers too, butfor me also it was the slightly

(02:57):
more critical eye or like the less rah rah America I of it,
because Band of Brothers gets pretty real in some moments.
But I don't think it got as realas it got real about what like
the enemies were doing and the way it was affecting the men.
But it didn't get as real about what the men were doing and
things of that nature as well, which I think Pacific did a

(03:19):
better job at. I do think the Pacific is a
little scattered in its approachto narrative because it was
pulling from so many sources. But having said that, it will
always hold a special place in my heart because I just, I don't
know, I just adore it. I hadn't seen anything like it
when I first saw it, and I thinkit still holds up even 15 years
later. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I saw this maybe a couple years after it came out.

(03:41):
So it's the first HBO war property that I saw.
And there's definitely fair criticism about, like you were
saying, this sort of three at times disjointed narratives
don't fit together that well. And there's places where I think
the first time I saw it, I foundit a little bit hard to follow
potentially. But that said, every time I
watch it, I find more and more of things that really interest
me about it that make me want todelve into it a little further.

(04:05):
I think that the books that it'sbased on are extraordinary, and
they did a pretty reasonable jobof bringing those to life and
transitioning those to television.
And yeah, it really is the post 9/11 war show.
It's a little bit more reflective of people feeling a
bit more jaded and perhaps a bitmore willing to be critical of
US foreign policy and that kind of stuff.

(04:26):
And so, yeah, I really enjoy it.I don't know if it's the easiest
watch for someone who's only perhaps casually into war media.
I think maybe Ganapolis is more accessible.
But I love it man. Like it's definitely my favorite
of the three. Yeah, it's a hard watch and a
hard sell even to a lot of my friends that are in the World
War 2 space because they're like, it's so sad.
And I'm like, yeah, it was not agood time for a lot of people

(04:49):
anyway. I just want to quickly note that
there is more to enjoy if you enjoy with your breed.
Eugene Sledge's son, Henry Sledge has added to the book
from some of his dad's work, so there's more to read if we ever
want to get into that. I will definitely be looking
that up, I read. I went and looked up this.

(05:11):
I'm going to sound like such a creep.
I looked up Eugene Sledge's papers from when he was writing
about nematodes at school, and Iread his papers about nematodes
because I was like, I love an academic paper and I want to see
how he thought you. Know what I mean?
I want to know what these are. I don't know what those are.
They're like microscopic little,I don't even remember the

(05:33):
specific classification because this was a couple years ago and
I haven't read a ton about them since.
Maybe not quite microscopic, butthey're teeny tiny and they live
in soil especially like wet soil.
And a lot of times they'll causeproblems for trees and ecology
and things like of that nature. So being that he was like a guy
living in kind of a southern marshy area and I live in a
southern marshy area, I was like, we probably have some

(05:55):
stuff, some interest in common. I like weird little bugs.
Lovely. With that said, I guess let's
get into the plot of Episode 1. Yeah, so the Pacific does a

(06:15):
thing similar to Band of Brothers, where they have a sort
of collection of interviews withveterans at the beginning.
I think Sidney Phillips is on there, RV Bergen, a couple of
other people, and you also get some clips of what was happening
and like a little Tom Hanks voice over.
So we get this little introductory segment like that,
and then we get the opening theme, which is beautiful.

(06:37):
It's a song called Honor by HansZimmer, Jeff Zanelli and Blake
Neely, and it's just gorgeous. I never skip it.
No matter how many times I watchthe Pacific, I always watch the
opening. I just say I don't get those.
I've seen them before but I don't get the interviews or
that's all my hands opener so I'm in the dark.
I think it depends on which version you're watching because
I remember the first time I watched it those were not on

(07:00):
there. But now every time I watch it
they're always on there. So I don't know if they release
like an updated version or something.
I know I've seen it. I've seen it on either HBO or
Netflix or even they're probablyon my DVD.
But when I was watching on Netflix today, they weren't on
and then I watched a nice PR because I was missing them and

(07:20):
they're also not a nice PR for me, so it's really annoying.
That's good. I'm western like if it's like a
licensing thing. That's so weird.
Yeah. Sid Phillips.
I will say, real life Sid Phillips has like the sweetest
face. He just looks like a happy guy,
you know what I mean? Oh my God.
And can I also say so? Last year I went to the World
War 2 Museum in New Orleans and I was just walking through the

(07:42):
Pacific section and all of a sudden I heard someone talking
about Guadalcanal and my ears just perked up.
And I was like, Sidney Phillips is talking.
And I like went around looking at like sure enough there was
they had a recording of him speaking and like some pictures
of him and like a little displayand stuff.
And I was like, wow, really fucking weird that I just
recognized that old man's voice.It does feel weird.

(08:04):
That's a great museum though. I I need to get back there.
I haven't been in like 5 or 6 years and I want to see what
updates they've made since then.I got to go again.
I dragged my dad and my uncle and my mom down there.
We all went and I, I mean, they actually had I think a
surprisingly for them good time because none of them are like
super into World War 2. But we spent maybe 4 hours.
But I'm like, you could spend several days like there's tons

(08:26):
of stuff. Oh yeah.
One last thing about the openingof the show and for all the
theme songs from all the three HK awards things, this isn't for
me. I can put this on at night and
just cry and it's amazing. Yeah, it's my favorite.
I the whole I mean and I want tosay respect for respect is due.

(08:47):
All the openings for all the shows go absolutely hard, but
this one is my favorite. I same.
I listen to the song outside of watching the show.
I always watch the credits. I don't ever skip them.
Like they're just, I don't know,it's just the best.
When the actual show starts, we meet Robert Luckey, played by
James Bell Still, and he's a young journalist from New
Jersey. He was enlisted in the Marine

(09:08):
Corps, But before he ships out, he briefly encounters his
neighbor, Fear, a killer play byCaroline.
Never not. And he says, maybe I'll write to
you. And she's like, all right.
And it'll be relevant later. I think this encounter is so
serious. He's just come from church, and
she's just going in there. They're just the cutest two

(09:29):
people on the planet for me. Whoever came up with this whole
making the letters to Vera such a crucial pivot point and lucky
storyline like kudos, it's absolutely amazing.
Just throughout the whole show, the voice over, dear Vera,
that's why Z is happening. And then the reveal at the end
when he's talking to her about the letters, like just chef's
kiss. It's so good.

(09:50):
I love it. Yeah, it's also like a much
sweeter introduction to who Lucky is then how he opens his
book. I don't want to spoil it for
anyone, but it's a time. And I do really like that they
use that as kind of the thread of memory of this home, this
idealized version of home that they're like thinking about
while they're gone. For sure.

(10:10):
I was gonna say about Lucky, andmaybe in general about
relationships with parents in this show, is that Lucky's
relationships with his dad as heships out is so sad.
It's the saddest scene to watch because they really stay with
that moment for quite a long time.

(10:31):
As he's getting ready to get on the bus, I think is it a bus or
a train? I don't remember.
And his dad is just distracted and he doesn't really say
goodbye to him. And then it's kind of this
detached way of saying goodbye or nothing like good luck or I
hope you come home or anything like that.
And it's so different between the three sort of families we

(10:53):
see. I like that we get to see the
families a lot in this show. If you compare it to Ben and
brothers, you don't see any of them, so I do like it.
If I'm going to be like emotionally affected by like a
character death or character trauma in a show, like usually
it's because of the impact that it has on the people who are
left behind. Like particularly, I think in
Bazelon's case, it's very effective the way they do that.

(11:15):
And like with Lucky, we see him come home from the war and his
mom's like, why didn't you tell me you were coming?
I didn't have time to clean yourroom.
Like, it's very, you know, And he talks about it at one point
how he's the youngest of 10 and obviously grew up in the
Depression and things were a little tough and his parents
were tired by the time he came along.
And it's just like, really informs who he is as someone who
is kind of upfront, pretty sarcastic and witty and little,

(11:39):
you know, bucking against authority and tough and that
kind of stuff. But he also has this
vulnerability. Like he also seems like quite a
lonely person. Yeah, I, I think part of why I
like the Pacific North and Band of Brothers, which I adore, is
because you spend so much time with the people.
Like, you get to see how the waris affecting more groups of

(12:00):
people than just the soldiers. And I guess you get a little of
that. And Masters of the Year, too.
Again, I didn't finish that one,so I can't really speak on it,
but like, I don't know. I just really appreciate how
they made it feel more like it wasn't this thing that was
happening to these guys away. It was this thing that was
interrupting everyone's lives everywhere.
Yeah, So we also get introduced to Eugene Sledge, played by by

(12:22):
Joe Mazzello. He's a teenager in Mobile, AL
Like, can't stress enough the fact that these people are very
young and he can't enlist because he has a heart murmur.
So his best friend, Sydney Fellows, played by Ashton
Holmes, goes without him. And yeah, so the kind of the his
and Lucky's plotline ties together because Sid ends up
being sort of in the same unit and friends with Robert Lecky.

(12:42):
So we encounter Sid again with Lecky and their friends, Wilbur
Runner, Conley, played by Keith Knobs, Lou Chuckler Jurgens
played by Josh Hellman, and BillHoosier Smith played by Jacob
Pitts. As they're on a ship and they're
in the Pacific and they're preparing to disembark at
Guadalcanal in August of 1942. And the Marines encounter the
Japanese in force for the first time at the Tenerife River.

(13:05):
Worth mentioning too for anyone who does decide to read Helmet
for My Pillow, which I if you'reonly ever going to read one more
book, that's the one that I would recommend reading.
But Lucky does refer to everyoneby these nicknames names all the
time. Like he never actually says my
friend Bill, who he called Hoosier, it's just Hoosier or
the Hoosier, you know, et cetera.
So I really like that they kind of, it was such an interesting

(13:26):
personal choice in terms of the way that he saw these people.
And I love that they carried that into the series too, and
like, gave them that same identity there.
For sure. And so many of the nicknames are
so evocative. You know, I mean, as you know,
the officer that he calls Spearmint or whatever, it's like
all these names, it's really, you're like, OK, this is a
pretty succinct way of telling us what this person is like.
I think it was, I want to say one of the other books that I

(13:49):
read by him was Turning Point for the Pacific, and I think
it's that one that he dedicates to Chuckler Runner and Hoosier,
which I thought was kind of lovely.
I remember when I first watched it, I couldn't keep Runner and
Hoosier apart. I don't know why, because
they're so different. I just could not remember which
face runs bridge nickname because they're always like all

(14:12):
of them. Almost all of them are always
together. So it's like, wait, who's
talking? Who are they talking about?
But I know now, obviously, I know mostly because of Jacob
Pitts, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, that's why I I'm a
big oh, of course I'm fucking forgetting what it's called now
with Timothy Olyphant Justified.I'm a big justified fan.

(14:33):
I was like, hey, Jacob Pitts. Well, and apparently Hoosier was
almost kind of like a prototype for the Tim Gutterson character.
Like some producer saw Jacob Pitts in the Pacific and was
like, we need that guy. Isn't it the same producer?
Yeah, I think so, Yeah. Yeah.
And I'm so fond of H Company, which is like Leckie's little
group of friends. And I think part of that is
because Leckie was so fond of them.

(14:55):
And you get that in his book. Like his book is really a lot
less about like strategy and tactics and this is what the
Marines were doing and a lot more about what here's what me
and my fuck up friends were doing.
Yeah. Sam, can you give us some
historical background, please? The US forces landed on
Guadalcanal and nearby islands in order to prevent the Japanese
from using them as air bases. So at this point, there's all

(15:17):
these little islands that no more than 12 people have ever
lived on, basically in the Pacific, places that you've
never heard of, places that nobody would bother fighting
over. But now they're very important
strategic territory. And so they're landing there and
they're also trying to support the Allied campaign to isolate
the major Japanese air base at Rebul, which is on New Britain
on the other end of the island from Cape Gloucester, which

(15:38):
we'll see later because Leckie and his buddies will also land
on Cape Gloucester and fight a battle there.
The initial landing on Guadalcanal was successful, but
the Japanese Navy counter attacked and succeeded in
isolating the Americans on the island.
So the Americans completed construction of an airfield,
which is Henderson Field, and they did have to rebuild it time
and time again because it got bombed quite often and then they

(15:59):
dug in to protect it. And so the first time they
encountered the Japanese sort ofin force at the 10 River, they
call it Alligator Creek. And we see this in the show.
This was the first major Japanese land offensive on the
Guadalcanal campaign, August 21st, 1942.
And the end result is that it taught the Japanese that they
had seriously underestimated American numbers.
And they subsequently sent much larger forces to try and retake

(16:20):
Henderson Airfield in the future.
And the Marines were under the overall general command of US
Major General Alexander Vandergrift, who will actually
make an appearance later in the show.
He's the one who lets John Bazelon re up his enlistment.
And he said after Alligator Creek, I have never heard or
read of this kind of fighting. These people refuse to
surrender. The wounded wait until men come
up to examine them and blow themselves and the other fellow

(16:42):
to pieces with a hand grenade, which of course we also see in
the show. I quite like how the
disillusionment in the show begins immediately.
Like it comes later for a character like Sledge, but for
Luckiness Crew it's just instant.
You see it in Episode 1. It's like, oh wait, this is not
how we expected it to be. One of the things I appreciate

(17:05):
about like, he is a writer specifically in the Pacific
conflict, because he, in his books, he talks about the
Japanese forces as though they're enemies, but he never
talks about them in the way thatsome authors have done.
He very clearly still sees them as people.
He sees them as people who are dangerous and who are like a

(17:25):
threat to him and his friends and their safety.
But he recognizes that they're in a similar situation to where
the Americans are in some ways, but which I don't find is always
the case. And so that was really
refreshing when reading his bookto be like, oh, this is a person
who recognized that some of the attitudes of the people around
him had about these people, thatthere were layers happening that

(17:47):
wasn't just because of the war. You know what I mean?
That I don't know. It was just really nice to see
in the year of our Lord, the 20 tens or whatever it was that I
read that book, 2016, something like that.
Yeah, because there certainly was a racial undertone to a lot
of the things that happened in the Pacific that simply was
absent in, you know, the European theater where the
Americans were fighting people who looked quite a lot like

(18:07):
them. And you see it right away on the
boat, on the ship before they disembark.
And the the CEO, I don't know who he is, but he's so violent
in his description of the Japanese.
And I feel like a lot of people would have taken that to be
truth. Like they also felt that rain is
nice to see that Lucky didn't atleast didn't put that in any of

(18:31):
his bucks. I don't know if he ever felt
like that. Maybe he did, but he at least
didn't put it in the right thing.
I think it's like a choice, too,because the guy who's on the
ship who's being so gross about Japanese people, generally, in
the next couple of scenes we seehim cowering in a foxhole and he
gets relieved of his commands because he's like simply not
good at his job. And he really did not perceive

(18:54):
the Japanese as a threat. He perceived them as like this
caricature and it came back to bite him in the ass.
Good point actually, I kind of forgot they were the same
person. Yes, yeah.
And in this Section 2, there's apart where there's one Japanese
soldier left and the Americans are taking potshots at him, but
more to tease him than anything.They just keep grazing him and

(19:15):
he's getting like, more and moreupset.
And so Lucky sort of mercy killshim.
And I love that because it's not.
I mean, it's the first time we sort of see Lucky do something
like that, but it won't be the last.
There's another part where he stops his buddies from killing
some farmers cows. There's another part where, you
know, when he meets Stella in Australia, he's like sitting
with her mother in the garden and they're having this whole

(19:36):
like heart to heart, you know, there's a part of the end where
he he's trying to get the corpsman for his friend and he
can't and he feels so much guiltabout it.
And I really think that we get so many of really great
character moments for Leckie. And just by the general way he
behaves, you might be tempted tothink he's like this rough
around the edge of the sarcastic, fast talking kind of
guy. But he really does have these
really brilliant, beautiful moments of trying to do the

(19:59):
right thing. Yeah, it's very clear from like
to your point that he his book is mostly about like his stories
with him and his fuck up friends.
And it is very clear that they cared about each other like
that. These, you know, these were guys
that were like trying their bestto get each other home alive,
you know, and like IA lot of people say that, but I feel like
you really feel that connection with.

(20:20):
The Pacific in a lot of ways that are more real than some of
the other shows that I've watched.
Yeah, for sure. I think also I can't remember
y'all can correct me if I'm wrong.
There's an episode in this show.I'm pretty sure it's lucky that
does it, where they're like looking through the packs of the
soldiers that have died and he finds like a photo, like a
family photo. And he has this moment of like,

(20:40):
oh shit. Like this is a guy who's got
family at home that he's thinking about the same way that
I'm thinking about my family at home.
It belongs to the soldier, your mercycles.
Yes, OK. I was like, I couldn't remember
if so, I was pretty sure it was Alligator Creek, but I couldn't
remember. But yeah, it's just this really
stark moment. Sad, but not, you know what I
mean? Like, just a good bittersweet
anyway. Yeah, the third part of our sort

(21:03):
of three window In this episode.We meet Sergeant John Nesslern,
played by John Cena, and his friends, Sergeant Manny
Rodriguez, played by John Fernthor, and Sergeant JP
Morgan, played by Josh Hart Bitton.
And they have dinner at Bezelon family home if we're shipping
out. That's not one of those moments

(21:24):
that I really appreciate becauseyou get to see what they're like
outside of the war or before thewar even.
And they briefly crossed paths with our first Marines, which is
like a screw at the end on the granite canal.
And it's the only time that's not intersects with the other
two plot lines. And we don't know if they've met
in real life. Probably not.

(21:45):
But it's a smart but of keeping the storylines connected.
Yeah, and Lucky doesn't mention him in his memoir, but it's
possible that they cross paths, I guess.
Bazelowen's father is this sweetlittle old man who barely
speaks. He has a couple lines of
dialogue. He only speaks Italian.
But I think his strongest moments are they're sitting at
the table and, and John and his dad have this moment of like eye

(22:06):
contact. And I think like one of them
puts the hand over the other's hand or something like that.
And it's just really heartfelt. Like, you can tell that they
might live in a family where it's like hard for men to share
their feelings. But you can tell that his dad
really, like, cares about him and is worried about him.
And then at the end of the show,the scene with Lena where she's
bringing the metal home, and then you just see the dad's face

(22:27):
when he gets the metal. And I'm like that little old man
is doing so much emotional heavylifting in this show.
Like the the scenes to me that over the most impactful honestly
like were the scenes with Bazelon and his dad.
Yeah, hard agree. And I realized the thing that I
was going to say, I was thinkingabout Episode 2.
So I'm going to keep that to myself for now.

(22:56):
Episode 2 John Basilone and his buddies, they're on Guadalcanal
at this point. They have their first bloody
encounter with the Japanese in the jungle.
They are led by Lieutenant Colonel Lewis Chesty Puller,
played by William Sadler, who's almost a mythic figure in the
Marine Corps. He had a very long career.
He's quite well known. Anyway, he tells his men that
the Japanese view them as, quote, not ordinary troops, but

(23:19):
a special force recruited from jails and insane asylums full of
blood lust. So I always love that because
it's like, yeah, here's how we're we're going to motivate
these guys. We're going to make them think
that, you know, the Japanese really think they're not to be
fucked with sort of thing. Yeah, true killers.
I just the Marines, to me, I mean, apart from the Pacific, I
haven't seen many things about the Marines.

(23:41):
So this is all I know about the Marines.
And I have to say they are kind of a different kind of breed
from all that, from the Army andfrom the Air Force are different
kind of fighters too, but also different characters.
Well, they certainly think so. I love the at the end where
Lucky's going in to get his job and his boss is like, oh, I have
so much respect for soldiers. And he's like, I was a Marine,

(24:02):
Yeah. Excuse me, Sir, how dare you?
I do feel like these days there are some stereotypes about
Marines, crayon eaters. I would definitely agree with
that, but I also think that that's the kind of like, I don't
mean this as like a in a bad way, but there's like a certain
amount of US versus them that has to happen.
You know what I mean? In a situation like a war zone

(24:24):
for unit to be effective essentially.
You know, and it's so interesting to me because it
works in every branch, but like the Marines are definitely, I
think at least the Marines that I have personally known have
been the loudest about it for sure about like their specific
brotherhood and stuff like that.Lucky is writing a letter to
Vera and he says that he'll tellher the truth.

(24:44):
Quote UN quote. The jungle is swallowing us and
there's 5000 Japanese soldiers who want to.
So he's honest in his letter Stira and there is a brief bit
of levity when everyone makes their army supplies.
I love the scene so much, like the air raid warning because the
Japanese are going to bomb the airfield but the army doesn't

(25:06):
know that they're not also bombing the beach.
So the Marines who've been therefor a while now doesn't know
just steal everything they can get their hands on.
And firstly telling you Corriganfled by Henry Nixon gives Lucky
and carry his smokes after that which doesn't bode well.
He gives them his Lucky strikes instead of the rallies, which

(25:26):
are probably dead cigarettes. That's probably the skirt.
Yeah. This is also more lucky style
pairs. Favorite pair of shoes?
I love that scene just in general.
It does such a good job of conveying the kind of
shenanigans like these are boys,these are young men, you know,

(25:47):
these are teenagers. These are guys in their early
20s for the most part, if even that, you know what I mean?
Like, not many of the ones who are down here in the foxholes
are any older than like maybe 24.
And it's, it just is such a great like, well, that's a bunch
of kids. That's a bunch of kids doing kid
shit. You know, like it's like, Oh

(26:07):
yeah, they were over here doing this insane thing, this
unbelievable thing that a lot ofpeople didn't survive doing.
And like, they're still, they still have that part of them
that is like mischievous and, you know, wants to get up to a
good trouble, as they call it, You know what I mean?
In the previous episode, I thinkSid has his 18th birthday, so he

(26:28):
was 17 when he landed on Guadalcanal.
And then who's your hands on a grenade?
And is like happy birthday. I love it.
Yeah, I do love Lucky being a shithead so much because it's
like in no other context than World War 2 with this man have
joined any type of military service because he can't take

(26:48):
direction for shit and like. Yeah, there's this bit I love
from the book that's before theyeven get deployed, that they are
in a bar and they get cut off. So they decide to steal a case
of beer. It's just such a, like,
troublemaker move. It's not the way that the
Marines or any soldiers of any kind are like, usually depicted
in the American consciousness. And it's such an interesting

(27:12):
take to be like, oh, this guy reminds me of my brother.
And then that makes me think about like, my brother dealing
with stuff like this. And I don't think he would have
made it, if I'm being totally honest.
But you know, it's just, I don'tknow, it reminds me of me in
high school a little bit too. And I'm like, it really makes
you feel, I think, a little closer to these characters in a
way. For sure, yeah.
At this point, the Marines, I mean, part of the reason why

(27:35):
they raid the Army supplies so enthusiastically is that for
quite a long time they were cut off, so they weren't getting new
food. And they notably, I think
Corrigan mentions that they don't have any toilet paper.
You know, they're not getting pretty much any supplies in.
And they're, they're really overstretched and they don't
have a lot of backup coming either.
So when the Japanese attacked, the Marine lines are very thin.

(27:58):
And this is where we get John Bazelone doing his Medal of
Honor shit. And so during the Battle of
Henderson Field in October 24th,1942, Bazelone was in command of
two sections of machine guns. After two days, he only had
three Marines remaining under his command.
And so he sort of made do. He risked his life to obtain
more ammunition for his guys. He went out into the open and

(28:19):
cleared a field of vision for them by moving some bodies out
of the way. He was running around just
carrying his machine gun, like repairing it on the go, firing
it. He got these massive burns on
his hands and arms because the barrel gets really hot and he
didn't have his glove. At one point.
He held Japanese attackers at Bay with a pistol and a machete.
So he's doing lots of hero shit.Super.

(28:39):
Unfortunately for us, they don'tlight this scene very well, so
it's really hard to tell what's going on.
But yeah, so he does big hero shit.
And unfortunately, his friend Manny, who's been made a runner,
who's, you know, running ammunition back and forth,
etcetera, he dies during the battle.
They don't like any scene. Well, in the show, it's my
biggest cry, But the show is that everything is in the dark.

(29:03):
I always wonder if it's done on purpose to give you the same
sense that they would have had or something.
But it's just really annoying. If it's going to be on your TV,
yeah. That's like a really generous
view, what they may have been after, but I'll take it.
I'll fold that into my narrativeof it.
I thought Barcelona was interesting, but I didn't really

(29:24):
connect with him as much as someof the other characters at 1st
until actually I went to the National World War 2 museum.
And they have a lot of information on him in certain
parts of it because they there'slike a place where you can look
up basically every soldier who had whatever type of metal and
stuff like that. And like, after learning more
about him and reading part of red blood black sand and stuff

(29:45):
like that, I was like, oh, OK, this guy was more interesting
than I maybe thought that he wasin this moment.
And maybe part of that was because it was like so poorly
lit that I was just like, OK, he's just running around in the
dark, you know, doing whatever it his storyline for me, I think
is the most if I had my way in the world, they would have done

(30:07):
a solo series or movie or something just about Basilone.
And they would have built the Pacific off of Lucky and Sledges
stories because they followed each other a little more
closely. I think, you know what I mean?
I feel like we could have explored John Basilone a little
bit more in this because he was really an incredible person who
I don't think got as much screentime as maybe the story
deserved. Yeah, I totally agree.

(30:29):
And I think unfortunately what hurts his storyline a little too
is that sometimes Hanks and Spielberg can't resist this
thing where this like sort of nostalgia kick thing about World
War 2 where they're like, this guy was a hero and he's almost
like Tom Hanks is like wet dreamidea of an American hero.
And they sort of treat him like that in some ways.
And I'm like, that kind of hurtshis story because I do think

(30:50):
real Basilone was a lot more interesting than this sort of
like, almost like bland in some places character that we
sometimes get. And yeah, I don't know, it would
have been nice to get a little more sort of color from his
storyline. But I've watched the Pacific a
few times, and having rewatched it a few times, like I do pick
up things here and there where I'm like, OK, this is much more

(31:10):
interesting now than I initiallyperceived it to be.
Yeah, I do think he gets to yourpoint, like scrubbed a little
bit in a way that some of the other characters don't because
probably of that exact thing where it's like, oh, which I
think maybe is why I bounced offit at first too, because I was
like, OK, yeah, another like, hero guy.
But then like, he, he was a hero.
He did some incredible, absolutely unhinged stuff, you

(31:33):
know, in the hopes of like, preserving other people's lives,
which is unreal. Yeah, for sure.
And I mean, I also think that his story is probably harder to
access for us simply because, like, he didn't survive the war
and he never wrote anything down.
So we don't know what his personal feelings were about any
of this. Yeah.
The other two storylines are so full of emotion and character

(31:55):
building and changes for the news characters and we don't get
that from us alone. Probably for the reason you just
mentioned, the fact that we never got to hear it in his
words. So I agree, I think his
storylines are the least It doesn't grip you quite as much
as the other two do. We do get to see him look for

(32:15):
Manny in a way that really breaks my heart because he
doesn't know where Manny is and then he gets to find him and
it's oh man, that scene in episode 2 just kills me.
It's. Brutal.
I think that maybe just one additional thing about John
Bazelone is that this wasn't hisfirst taste of combat.
He had fought on the Philippines.

(32:36):
They called him Manila John. And so our other two Marines, we
get to see them pretty green. You know, they're figuring out
combat for the first time. And John Bazelon is going into
it with this kind of almost likewariness.
Like, I think he knows that he'snot going to be able to keep all
these people safe. And he's just going to, you
know, he already kind of knows what he's getting himself into.
The First Marine Division, whichis Lucky and his friends, they

(32:58):
end up being relieved on Guadalcanal.
It's December of 1942. And there's this scene where
Lucky's talking about how he wrote a poem about their
experience on Guadalcanal. And, like, it's a lovely poem.
It's like an ode to, you know, whatever.
It's like, quite nice. And then one of his friends is
like, that must be a hard poem to write.
What the hell rhymes with Guadalcanal?
And then Hoosier says, how fucked are we now on

(33:20):
Guadalcanal? Very delightful.
And, yeah, so they they're relieved and they get back on a
ship and they find out that their exploits are well known
back home. And I think this scene is pretty
much lifted straight from Lucky's memoir, where it's like
him and Chuckler are talking to the sailor on the boat, and
they're like, have you even heard of Guadalcanal?
And the sailor's like, well, of course everybody knows about

(33:41):
Guadalcanal. And him and Chuckler both shed a
little tear over it because theyreally thought that they were
fighting in the back of beyond and no one had ever heard of it.
It's a really beautiful scene inthe book and in the movie, movie
show. You know what, For me, it's a
long movie. I just watch it all in one go
every time. So I don't even really remember
where episodes starter begin. It's true.
Me too. I just binge it.
But yeah, the First Marine Division, in the four months

(34:03):
that were on Guadalcanal, they lost 650 killed in action, 1278
wounded, with a further 8580 contracting malaria and 31
missing in action. At this point, the Japanese had
begun to abandon Guadalcanal. They were pulling back and sort
of consolidating their resourceselsewhere, and they evacuated
the last of their troops in February of 1943.

(34:23):
I just want to quickly address the malaria bit by mentioning a
scene from this episode where it's runner having the runs and
also Lucky eating Peaches, whichearns him his nickname of
Peaches. I really like that they managed
to make stuff that's really darkbecause malaria is no joke, but

(34:47):
make it funny in a show that's so incredibly dark.
Yeah, they do a really good job,I think, of balancing like the
grittiness and the realness witha levity that is not only
necessary for us, but like was very clearly necessary for these
guys. You know what I mean?
Like you have to laugh or your cry, as they all say.
So it's very like from Lucky's books.
That is made very clear in many instances.

(35:09):
Oh yeah for sure. I mean, they made jokes so black
that like no one outside of thatcontext, I think they were
funny, but it's how they sort ofrelated to each other and got
through it. At the very end of the episode,
we got to watch as Sledge Eugene, unless as his heart
murmurs, disappeared and he has a conversation with his father,

(35:30):
who's a comment surgeon who remembers treating World War One
vets. And he says that he's not
worried about him getting injured and coming home with
like a finger missing, but he's afraid of him coming home with
no lodge in his eyes and no gun is in his heart.
And he says that he remembers those World War One soldiers

(35:53):
having their souls thrown out. And it's this really heartfelt
conversation that makes you feelfor his parents a lot because
he's been wanting to go. He's seen it as this huge
failure that he's not been able to unless and he is embarrassed
to not go. And then he's like, give me 5
minutes to break the news to your mother who's also very sad

(36:16):
about it so. They circle back on it
beautifully too at the end when Sledge comes home from the war
and like sure enough has horrible nightmares and is
having a really hard time readjusting and his dad is very
understanding and kind about it.His mother is quite impatient
with him and she doesn't really understand, but I guess his
father, having seen it first hand and other people, sees it

(36:40):
for what it is immediately. I think that this was like the
right choice to make narrativelyfor the show.
And I love I also love the way that book ends, the way that he
like is warned. You know that this is going to
have a toll on him and he not necessarily doesn't really take
it seriously, but he just can't understand what that means until
he does. But I do think it does the

(37:01):
actual Eugene Sledge just a little bit dirty.
I don't know if either of you all read with the old breed, but
he did have a heart murmur. But that's not why he was late
showing up to the war. He went to officer's school
first because he wanted to be anofficer and he it was, he
realized it was going to take him too long.
So he elected to flunk out of that school and just go as like

(37:21):
an enlisted man. I understand why they couldn't
fit it in and I think they made the correct narrative choice for
the way that the story needed todevelop.
But part of me is like that was such like a what a move, you
know what I mean? Like that was such a like, Hey,
I gotta get there no matter. Like yes, I could make more
money or whatever, but like my the point for me is not to make
the money. It's to get there and help.
And like that is something that I wish that they had maybe

(37:44):
figured out a way to include, but I get what I did at the same
time. I had forgotten about that.
It's been such a long time sinceI've read with the old breed.
But I also feel like you get thevibe from the old breed that
Eugene Sledge is like a pretty like logical thinker.
It's like this and therefore this and like he's really, he'll
talk to you about some of the tactics and strategies and troop
movements and stuff and it's like that.
It really makes sense to me thathe would see the situation.

(38:06):
He was going to be like, how do I get into the war faster?
All right, this is what I'm going to do.
Yeah, before we move on to Episode 3, it's not even in this
episode, it's in Episode 1. But can we talk very briefly
about the relationship between Sid and Eugene and how rare it
is to get to follow characters from the further War together

(38:28):
through the war? I mean, we don't get any of it
in the brothers, though they could have done it for, I guess,
for Scott Markham to come and they knew each other before.
But I like that we got to followthese two characters from the
further War until after the roar.
Yeah, well, and it's such a nicelike, again, not to like be
hammering on male intimacy too much or whatever, but like it

(38:51):
is, there's a way that masculinefriendships are portrayed,
especially in war media a lot oftimes where they're like sharper
edged in a lot of ways. And I really liked that, like
this one because these are youngguys, right?
Like, these are like high schoolseniors maybe, you know, and
they're just allowed to be like guys who enjoy hanging out

(39:12):
together, who are excited to seeeach other when they're
reunited. Like, it's just a really nice
take. I also have to commend this is
like a second thought that's interrupting, sorry.
But I also do have to commend both of these shows, Band of
Brothers and The Pacific, for actually casting actors who are
young and who look young and feel young.
You know what I mean? Yeah, it makes a huge
difference. And I with this friendship in

(39:33):
particular. So of course, Sid goes to war
first. And then there's going to be a
scene later where when Eugene finally gets over into the
Pacific, him and Sid briefly overlap before Sid gets to go
home. And even though they're happy to
see each other and they, you know, there's this sort of sense
that like Sid is in, you know, in as much as combat as the

(39:54):
great divider, the before and after of a young man's life,
Like Sid is already in the afterhe's been dragged through the
meat grinder already. He's been irrevocably changed.
And there's like a sense that him and Eugene won't fully
recognize each other again untilEugene has been through that
too, and knows what it's like. Eugene meets up with Sid and you
can tell that Eugene is still kind of the kid from back home,

(40:15):
and Sid has become the man that he will be after the war.
Yeah, it's a great scene. Yeah.
OK, Episode 3, it's December of 1942, and I pulled Lucky's quote
about Melbourne because I just thought it was really funny.

(40:36):
They're relieved on Guadalcanal,they're going to Melbourne,
Australia, and they're going to have some time for some R&R.
And Lucky talks about how they're rolling up into the
harbor and they're young men, soof course they've got drinking
and women and all kinds of stuffon their minds.
And he says the glory was gone out of it now.
Gone was Guadalcanal. Gone was the valor, the

(40:56):
doggedness, the willingness to let the jungle pick our whitened
bones. We were spent fit only for the
great debauche stretching godly ahead in Melbourne.
Say a requiem for camaraderie. More in the departed fellowship
that had bound us officers and men from the Carolina coastal
March to the last panting lunge over the side of the President
Wilson. It was dead.
So he's like, fuck it. We all were forgetting

(41:19):
Guadalcanal. We were ready to get fucked up.
Yeah, and this is a such a long and lush way to say fuck it, we
ball, you know what I mean? Like they're blowing off steam
in Australia in the way you would predict.
Basilone and his buddy JP are also in Australia, but their
celebration is a little bit muted because they've lost their
friend Manny. And Bazolone does a little bit

(41:39):
of his own misbehaving until he finds out that he's going to be
awarded the Medal of Honor. And they tell him he has to stop
fucking around and set a better example.
And we get this storyline where Lucky meets this woman named
Stella Caramelis, played by Claire Vanderboom.
And he gets to know her family, and they have this whole little
relationship. And then she basically breaks up

(42:00):
with him because she's like, you're probably not going to
come back. And that's going to break my
mother's heart. Not even mine, just my mother's
Riddle for her. This is one of those plot points
that again, I understand why it was made, but the shit that they
actually got up to in Melbourne is so much Wilder than what they
do in the show. It's like almost unbelievable,

(42:21):
you know what I mean? Because it was such, when he
says great debauch, he means it.And I understand why they made
the changes that they did. And he had in the book in real
life, a very impactful, I think interaction with an older woman
who is like not a romantic prospect.
And they did still get that in there.
So like, I do think that they like honored the spirit of it

(42:44):
and stuff. But just truly, if you're a fan
of like, reading at all, if you read nothing else, read Lucky's
book. Because this is fucking crazy.
Not only am I amazed that they survived the war, I truly don't
know how all of them survived Melbourne.
You know, no, it's true. Because even to the next point
that we have here, there's a bitwhere Lucky and Chuckler end up
in the Brig because Chuckler's supposed to be standing guard

(43:06):
and he's hammered. And then he's like, I got to go
take a piss. And Lucky is also hammered and
he's like, I'll watch her spot for you.
And then their CEO shows up and Lucky like pulls a gun on him.
This it did happen effectively in real life but Lucky had.
The consequence in the show is that Lucky gets transferred to
an intelligence unit or like away from his friends.
But like in the book that transfer happens before the

(43:28):
situation where him and Chucklerget hammered and fuck up.
Because his company was known for being so full of like
shitheads and fuck ups that likea whole bunch of them got
transferred out because the CEO was like I am not dealing with
this anymore. It was like moving.
Like if you have two little boysin a class who are talking and
kibitzing all the time. Like you move them apart from
each other so that they stop being so irritating for everyone

(43:50):
to deal with. Happened to me more than once.
I feel like you need to tell us because I have read this book
and I honestly cannot remember what they get after in
Melbourne. OK so I don't remember every
specific even though I have readit many times.
But I do remember that more thanonce they were in bars where the
local police had to come and getthem out because everyone was

(44:13):
being so rowdy. And so it was like local police
and MPs and they would flee fromthe MPs and they were like
climbing buildings to try to getaway from them.
Which is how he met this woman who is this 50 year old woman
living in Melbourne. I can't remember what her exact
back story was, but she was familiar with soldiers or with
enlisted men in some capacity. So when she saw them running

(44:33):
away, she was like, come inside.Like you can hide out here.
And that's how they met this woman.
And I think he went back to her house at least once to get away
from MPs as well. And I do distinctly recall
somebody having to sneak back onto a boat at some point for
reasons I cannot remember. They had like snuck out when
they weren't supposed to be there and they had to get on the
boat. And I'm pretty sure it involved

(44:55):
them either getting in the wateror almost falling into the water
at one point. And then all the stuff with him
pulling a gun on a CEO happened.There were a couple fights as
well. They really let loose in a way
that was delightful to me to read because I I've never been
arrested for anything, but I've done a lot of things that I

(45:15):
probably could have been arrested for if I hadn't had the
good sense to exit scenes. When I did.
I really related to that experience of being like, oh,
this sounds like something I would have done at a time in my
life when I was like around thatsame age.
I was getting up to similar trouble.
So it was very, I never pulled agun on anybody, but I definitely

(45:36):
did steal some things and sneak into some places where I should
not have been. So.
Yeah, and I the unfortunate thing is that I think a lot of
people find this episode to be the most boring one.
And the a lot of people don't like the Stella plot line.
And the Stella plot line really grew on me.
Like, I do like her as a character and I like the whole
thing with her family and how Lucky finds a home with her
parents and the way he doesn't have with his own.

(45:58):
But I do think that once I had read the memoir, I was like,
they really could have spiced upthis episode.
It really could have been a little bit more fun.
Yeah, he did meet a woman in Melbourne, but it wasn't quite
as intense as it's like portrayed in the show.
I think the same thing happened to RV Bergen, if I'm remembering
correctly. But he did wind up later engaged
to that woman. But he met someone there who was

(46:19):
going to break up with him because which that's one thing
they do in this show that I really don't like.
They attribute certain characters things to other
characters. And they do it because they just
don't have enough room, you know, to let everyone be on
stage or on screen as much as they probably would have liked.
But I don't think we'll meet himon this episode.
But when we meet Snafu, I think he got shafted in a lot of ways

(46:41):
because a lot of the stuff that is attributed to his character
is stuff from Lucky's book that other people are doing.
Anyway, that was a tangent. I agree.
There's certainly quite a lot ofthat that happens, which I mean,
if you haven't read the books, it's not going to bother you so.
Yeah, yeah, you'll just be like,it's crazy that he's doing that
and you're like, well, he wasn't, but but somebody was and
it was important for them to show it.
So I get why they made that choice anyway, right?

(47:04):
But yeah, Melbourne has grown onme as an episode, too.
I was really against the Stella plotline at first just because I
was like, why do we have to put a romance and everything?
But I love the relationship thathe has with her mother.
And I do think it's so beautifuland like, poignant.
And Stella herself is like, it'sfine.
Like, there's nothing wrong withthat relationship.
I was just like, doesn't know how it really went.

(47:27):
I know there's a couple of sex scenes that they have and to me,
like, I'm just not really interested, but I understand
that I perhaps I'm not always the target demographic for a war
show. And then probably people who
watched it were like, yeah, sex scene, yeah.
I do like the scene they put in there where they go to a, Is it
a wake that they go to when one of the neighboring families son

(47:53):
has died overseas and Lucky joins her and it kind of, again,
gives you a little glimpse into his character.
And that's a nice addition, I think.
Yeah. I like that part too.
I've come around on it in the end, I guess.
But right after reading the bookI was like, why?
Why this? But I but now like from the
narrative perspective, again, I do think they made a lot of

(48:15):
correct calls in many ways by kind of truncating or adjusting.
Yeah, and it is nice to see themmake an effort to include some
women who have personalities anddialogue in a way that was not
super present in Band of Brothers.
Yes, very true. Is this also the episode again?
If I'm wrong and it's an episode4 then I apologize but does Sid

(48:40):
need his girlfriend in his episode?
Yes, he does. He becomes, in the other sense
of the word, a man in this episode, and he talks about it
too, Eugene and the next episode, it's just really sort
of boyish and cute. Yeah.
And you're just kind of like, wow, this man has literally

(49:00):
killed people and he's, like, stoked to lose his virginity.
Like that's the whole thing. Yeah.
Yeah, I do like Sydney's character so much.
Like, I don't think at the beginning I was quite so stoked.
But I really like seeing a good friendship in the show.
You don't get a whole lot of those.
Sid is interesting for me because from my perspective, he

(49:22):
is the only character we are shown in this show that has like
regular screen time that makes it through to the other end and
is happy and settled again. I think the show does a really
good example of showing like multiple facets of the
experience, and I love that Sid is he's not unaffected and he's
not unchanged, but he comes through it and finds ballast in

(49:44):
ways that some of the other characters don't.
Yeah. And there's a there is a great
scene at the end where Eugene iskind of like, what are we
supposed to do? And Sid, who notably has been
home for like 2 years at this point, but also is 21, maybe 22
and has already been through theworst thing that's ever going to
happen to him. And he's kind of like, well, you
just get up every day and it gets a little easier.

(50:07):
And sooner or later you start toforget some things.
And then it's like, wow, there'slike none of these people have
access to therapy. It's just like whatever wisdom
this 21 year old has to impart on his equally young friend from
what he's learned over the past couple of years, Like, he's,
that's what he's doing. Yeah.
Yeah, at the end of the episode,Sam's already mentioned it, but

(50:28):
from Best Learn gets awarded theMedal of Honor.
He's still drunk. I think when he gets awarded it
after that, because he's such a hero, he gets to go home to the
US and he goes on a War Bonds tour and I don't like this part
of the storyline anymore, so. Yeah, for the uninitiated, they
they take, you know, this like quote, UN quote, war hero guy

(50:50):
who's known for these exploits. And they basically send him on
this tour, this whistle stop tour all around the US with this
like gorgeous celebrity on his arm.
And he's going around being like, I'm a war hero, buy war
bonds. And they literally raised like
billions of dollars in this way.Like, you really can't
underestimate how successful it was as like a strategy to raise
money for the US military. But he notably does not want to

(51:13):
do this. Like he wants to stay and fight,
but they're sending him on this trip.
Anyone who has seen the first Captain America movie, I think
that experience because it's kind of the same thing that
happens. I think it is like in some way
inspired by this kind of, I don't know if the folks who made
the Captain America movie are big, you know, Pacific heads.
But if not, there are a stunningnumber of similarities between

(51:36):
the way that the Steve Rogers character feels about the War
Bond tour that he's made to go on versus the way that John
Bassalone is portrayed as feeling in the Pacific That I
think are very interesting. Yeah, and we talked about this
in our Flags of Our Fathers episode 2, because they also
sent the men who had, quote UN quote, raised the flag on Iwo
Jima. They sent on a War Bonds tour.
And so that movie is also full of men who really don't feel

(51:59):
like heroes. And, you know, they're are
really uncomfortable with the spotlight, but they're having to
they're being put in this position where they have to keep
talking about what they've done in order to get people to
effectively give money to the war effort.
So go. Let's do that episode and also
go listen to our episode about Captain Eric because it's on
their team. Yeah, it is also like a really

(52:20):
vivid look at the early stages of the American advertising
machine, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure.
I just love this stupid show. Hell yeah.
I think it. Yeah.
I think I'm gonna go watch it after this because it's been,
like, probably a year or two since I last, like, watched the
whole thing through. Like, I still will pick up an
episode here and there if I'm like, feeling particularly
squirrely, But like, man, I should watch that again.

(52:43):
I miss those guys. Oh yeah I I binged it last week
like in over 2 nights kind of thing.
I was house sitting for my friend and just sitting there
like cuddling with her dog watching my favorite war show.
Hell yes, love that. Should we for fun just do three

(53:06):
ratings for each of our sets andwe can ask back to read it?
All right, all right. How many regurgitated PTS of 10
would you rate the first 3 episodes of the Pacific?
If we're going as a collection, like as a unit, my rating would
be different. I think overall I would give
these episodes as a trio. I'm going to say like a 7.5 only

(53:31):
because episode 3 is maybe my least favorite in terms of like
the whole series. But that is because I'm being
absolutely biased by the fact that I know what really happened
on Melbourne and I think that there are some episodes later.
Basically the Pacific for me is like once the train gets
rolling. The whole latter half of the
show I think is just knockout after knockout of episodes.

(53:52):
So the beginning episodes for meare good, but I do think the
later episodes are better. So I'm going to say 7.5 as a
trio. 7.5 or agitated Peaches. What would you rate the shark?
You were to rate the shark as a whole.
As a whole I would probably rateit for me personally like a high
8, maybe even a nine just because I do think it has some
issues. I mean, PO buddies, Nerfict and

(54:13):
all, but of the vast majority ofwar media that I have consumed,
it is probably my my favorite. I think it does the best at
humanizing not only the soldierson the American side, but the
soldiers on the Japanese side. I think that the characters are
the most interesting. I liked them enough that I went
and sought out, you know, their memoirs and learned more about
them and stuff, which I don't always do usually.

(54:36):
But like some memoirs, I'm like,cool, I read that.
And this one, I'm like, oh, thisbecame my favorite book.
You know what I mean? Like so it just has a special
place in my heart personally. Yeah, I honestly, I mean, I
liked with the old breed, but but helmet for my pillow is my
favorite war memoir. It's it's so good.
It's just I definitely recommendit.
I also listen to the audiobook as narrated by James Badge Dale.

(54:58):
James badge Dale. So and it's lovely.
Like sometimes I just throw thataudiobook on and I just love to
listen to like the sound of his voice because he's just so
perfectly cast as lucky. It's extremely good.
I also will recommend So with the Old Breed is good, but I
actually enjoyed even more Sledge's other book, China
Marine, which is about his occupation duty in China after

(55:20):
the war was over because he was there for a while and that was I
have read so few accounts of that particular role in World
War Two. It was so interesting.
I've heard people talk about that one too, and I'm curious.
I got to check it out. We've read some other lucky
books. I enjoyed Turning Point in the

(55:41):
Pacific, which is his book aboutGuadalcanal specifically.
And then and it's not like not from his perspective.
It's like a history book. And, and he also wrote Strong
Men Armed the United States Marines versus Japan, which is
about broadly what the Marines were doing because Lucky served
in every major campaign that theFirst Marine Division was
involved in, except Okinawa because he had been wounded

(56:02):
before that. And so this book covers like
basically all the things the Marines were doing in the
Pacific from start to end of thewar.
And it's super interesting and really well written.
Yeah, I like him as a historian too, because he started as a
journalist. So he has, you know, this like
sort of journalistic ethical take to a lot of his work, which
I find which makes for not only a compelling but a very like
honest view of a lot of the stuff that he was involved in.

(56:25):
Yeah, for sure. And then if anyone wants a non
World War 2 but still war book recommendation, and I work as a
tour guide. So I talked a lot about like the
American Revolution because the area that I live in was
established just before that. And so I started reading this
book specifically about the American Revolution that's part
of the Oxford collection, The Oxford History of the United

(56:45):
States. And it's The Glorious Cause by
Robert Middlekauff. It's so interesting and he does
such a great job of like explaining not only what like
the Revolution, it's the American Revolution itself, but
like why it happened, what was contextually going on in
politics and culture at the time.
It's very interesting and very good.

(57:06):
So if you're looking for, I've got the audio book and the
physical book and they're both great.
Amazing. First of all, back, thank you so
much for being on with us again.It was really fun as usual.
Thank. You.
It was a blast for my end too. Welcome back anytime and thank
you everybody else for listeningto another episode of Rosie.
You can find us forever. You got your podcast and you can

(57:29):
rate US five stars. We would really like it if you
did. You can follow us on and Rosie
the Reviewer podcast. You can send this episode to
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And if you want to read more about these books, you can visit
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See you next week. Bye bye.