July 7, 2024 • 49 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier assess the first All Blacks' test of the 'new era' and a tight win over England under the roof in Dunedin. We assess who stood out and where the improvements will need to be made for the second test in Auckland on Saturday.
We also run the rule over the other test matches around the globe over the weekend and reveal some battle scars of our own from Dunedin.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
Inside the Game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Elligott Smith with
me as always Liam Nape, your chief sports writer for
the New Zealand Herald and Rugby Correspondent. We are live
from Rugby Directs, Dunedin's studio for this one. Liam and
the All Blacks are on the board for twenty twenty four,
(00:45):
sixteen fifteen win over England. We're recording this on Sunday
afternoons and not even twenty four hours after the final whistle,
Still there, pab periala hory, God, Holy God, it's a
summer in the show.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
But the old Max, Who's when this first test of
the year han only holding on all right? Solder Popular
was the man. They got the penalty and now the
All Blacks need just to get it into clutch. Everyone
needs to take a deep breath. Damian McKenzie taps texts
it at the touch and you We're right of All
(01:21):
Black rugby because with an old natured Test match time
wrestle you see at sixteen and for fifteen full time
at bull Side bart Stadium and dun Eden.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
This dig right into it. Your initial reactions to the
first eighty minutes under head coach Scott.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Robertson rusty, nervous, unconvincing, I think on the whole, but
not totally unexpected given the limited preparation window, the eighteen
new managements that have come in the biggest change for
the All Blacks in twenty years. A lot of personnel
have left since the World Cup, a lot of experience,
(02:01):
so did expect them to be a bit rusty to
try and come together and put it all on the
park straight off the bats, But look, I think it
was an escape. The All Blacks were somewhat fortunate to
come away with victory and have a positive story to
sell to spin. It's a platform, it's a start and
(02:21):
England will rule this Test. This was their best chance
and it is one that got away from them.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
How did it get away from them? I guess is
what we look at. They were fifteen ten up in
the first spell and second spell and it kind of
felt like the bench perhaps for England didn't quite add
the impact that maybe was necessary. I thought Alex Mitchell
had a superb game at half back for England. When
he was replaced Ben Spencer comes on, it felt like
they just lost a little bit of pace out of
(02:48):
the ruck. Marcus Smith I thought had the All Blacks
guessing a lot more than Finn Smith who came on,
and just a couple of those other changes apart from
Tom Curry, I thought as Per is excellent. They got
sixty minutes out of Baxter on debut as well, but
just felt like maybe that last twenty twenty five minutes
when the All Blacks went up evil and had some
(03:08):
of their replacements come on and make impact, England didn't
quite have the same impact from their bench.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah, that's a fair assumption I was equally impressed with
as a former halfback retired now myself.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
Alex Mitchell was exceptional.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
His darts from the base down the short side ball
in two hands, putting doubt in the All Blacks defensive mind.
He was a real live wire for the English at
half back. His box kicking very accurate as well. Mara
a ToJ world class, isn't he the way he competed
at line out time and at the breakdown. England's increasingly
(03:43):
made a mess of the All Blacks ball. I think
they got six turnovers. Four of those came from the backs,
Olie Lawrence getting too so Chandler Cunningham South was another
big presence with ball in hands. So look, England left
their mark, but I think they were fortunate to be
locked at ten or a half time. The All Blacks
(04:05):
should have collected more points. They were extremely dominant in
that first half. England came out of the gate in
the second and really put it on them in that
third quarter and had a lot of momentum in descendancy.
The All Blacks had to fight their way through a
lot of adversity. The game basically comes down to Marcus
Smith missing a number of kicks. If you do the math,
(04:27):
the game should have been a draw, and I think
that probably is a fair reflection of a scrappy contest.
Marcus Smith missed eight points, Damien McKenzie seven, including that
not controversial but a very rare timed out penalty. He
missed seven, So you do the math, that's a draw
and it was very hard to separate these teams. So
(04:50):
the All Blacks look, they fought their way through adversity.
They took Damian McKenzie kicked to penalties to finish and
they had to repel England after the time out penalty
to finish the match. So you could say they were
more composed and took their chances.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
But there was nothing in that.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
No, there wasn't, and it was a narrow tester. It
felt maybe just before halftime the All Blacks were beginning
to get the ascendancy just a fraction. They were leading
ten to seven, and then I think the momentum swung
back England's way by a pretty shoddy decision I thought
from the All Blacks to continue playing after the siro. Now,
(05:25):
nothing wrong necessarily with having a little bit of a crack,
but they weren't getting over the advantage line, the game line.
They're being repelled by England. At that point, someone needs
to go kick it into touch. We'll take a ten
to seven lead into half time. Didn't happen quickly enough.
England get a penalty, Marcus Smith kicks it over ten
all and psychologically they head into the sheds just a
little bit happier, probably than the All Blacks, even though
(05:47):
the game is on an even keel, at least on
the scoreboard. They come out of the second half Marcus
Smith is an early penalty, but they spend the first
ten to twelve minutes. It felt like anyway of the
first a second spell camped and All Black's territory. They
got rewarded with a try through Emmanuel fa Woboso, who
I thought was very very good when he got ball
in hand for England, and it felt like they'd taken
(06:10):
the momentum away from the All Black sides. Little things
like that that you can decide to change your arm
a little bit, but there needs to be some leadership
on the park and go let's get this into touch
and take the half time. I know, with the little
bit rattled by t J. Petinara's injury there around that point,
but the decision making I thought was better later in
the game for the All Blacks, and it certainly probably
was either side of halftime.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
It's a good point, and I think the TJ. Peter
and a injury did affect them at that time. They
felt like they were really ragged, just going side to side,
not really going anywhere, and like you say, at that
point somebody needs to step up and say this isn't
worth the risk. We're inside our own half, let's kick
it out, let's regroup. Because Pedinara's distribution to that point
(06:52):
had been really good. I thought his clearances off the
left boot box kicks very accurate. I thought he was
you know, this's his first test for twenty months and
made a real impression when he went got injured with
the cleanout, which I don't have an issue with. I
think it was just so straightforward, cleaner. Unfortunate in the
way that Scott Barrett fell on him and twisted his knee.
(07:13):
That definitely affected his ability to lean over his passing
leg and that contributed to the All Blacks becoming ragged.
And yeah, it was a bit of a turning point
England going in a halftime level when they didn't really
deserve to be.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
They've been on the back foot.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
The All Black scrum, which I think we should touch on,
was extremely dominant, probably the best part of their game,
and from an officiating perspective, some really perplexing rulings around
the All Blacks not getting the rewards they deserved there.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
What was your read on that?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, it felt like they had found England out at
scrum time. In all honesty, first scrum the game, England
gets awarded a penalty. Now for me, I think you
as a referee need to have a little bit more
feeling in the game and go, let's just let the
two packs settle rather than because making a penalty in
the first game, whichever way goes, you're kind of setting
(08:06):
a little bit of precedent. But in subsequent scrums, the
All Blacks had the ascendancy, didn't always get the rewards.
I didn't think from Nick imusher Kelly, who by and
large ike you thought had a pretty decent game, but
they sort of didn't get the rewards there. But it
was a very very good part of the All Blacks
game used it as a bit of a weapon. Just
(08:27):
probably the platform has laid to an extent. We just
didn't see enough from the backs to really dig into
what the Scott Robinson game plan is going to be
when backs get ball in hand. We saw obviously Severi
score an early try Ardie Savilla scorer as well, both
coming down the right wing flank. But I guess if
(08:47):
we look at it from a whole eighty minutes, did
you see Scott Robinson game plan beginning to emerge at
all and is it too early to perhaps expect something
like that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
I think there were the elements there around the scrum.
I think they would have liked to have used them
more more. That will be a big part of this
All Blacks game. I think they will be appointed at times.
With their defense. It wasn't as aggressive enough if you
look at the way England defended with their line speed.
Now you don't have to bring that umbrella style, but
(09:18):
just getting up off the line in England's faces. I
felt like the All Blacks were a bit passive and
they allowed England to come to them, particularly in that
second quarter, gave them meters.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
That's right attacking perspective wise.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
You could see the way they were trying to get
around the English defense with one or two pods a
wee bit wider and I was impressed on the whole
by Stephen Peterfetz's contribution at the back. There was the
biggest talking point selection wise last week him over Boden Barrett.
He jinked out of ben Earle's tackle to set up
(09:50):
Artie Severe. But look, it is early and they would
have thrown a lot at the players. Stylistically, there wasn't
too much to pick out of it other than the
pillars that you would want. If we break it down
even further and go into what you'd expect out of
the All Blacks, what you take away from let's say
the forward pack.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
We've talked about the scrum, the.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Line out struggled, lost three of their own throws from
a ball carrying perspective, looking at the breakdown the defense,
did the All Blacks pack provide enough punch?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I don't think probably as much as they would have
liked necessarily, and that's because of England's umbrella defense as well.
I think in terms of the carry, you know, some
of those big men like to groot. We're getting sort
of half over the advantage line and being pushedback. Lomax
as well. I thought Semipenny Fena had a quietish night
(10:45):
to an extent before he went off with his hia,
which he passed. By the way, Don Papoli, you thought
I had a good game. Artie Savia was excellent. You
wouldn't known that he's been in Japan and away from
New Zealand rugby for quite some time. And I thought
Patrick twp so Patrick twe Blood and Scot Bear. I
don't think eyone had a bad game to say, but
it just felt like in terms of the carry, just
a little bit more punch from some of those forwards
(11:05):
and the All Blacks could have the advantage line a
little bit more and set themselves up for a bit
more success. The lineout is the worrying one as well.
Now Marotoji had at least a steal too, depending on
how you read it, and Scott Robertson pointed that out
when we convened so with him from me decision earlier
in the day. One of those was balking as well
(11:28):
that it can be fixed from a suffer a more.
But the line out throwing has been a worry of
a Mullward's game. So I felt that the lineout was
a little creaky first test of the year and you'd
want that to be fixed as you had to eaven
Park next week.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
Well, it's a massive area.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
The All Blacks pride themselves on their set piece and
there was always going to be a big spotlight on
the line out. Posts Broder Metallic and Sam Whitelocke. I
thought Scott Barrett was really good around the field there
was one big counter ruck that he drove into. He
was busy, but the lineout needs to be better because
it's such a focal point of an attacking platform. That's
(12:04):
where you want to strike or from all over the
park and England did well to disrupt that and they
will be looking at that again, so Jason Ryan his
area of expertise and Scott Robertson to a degree, they
will be drilling down into that.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
What about the back line.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Let's pick up on Damien McKenzie's game in particular, big
test for him. I think it was only his fifth
or sixth start and forty eight odd tests in the
ten Jersey. We had Richie Wonga sitting in the stands
with Richie's bus tour. They looked like they had a
hell of a time him and Shannon Frazelle with the punters,
which is great to see. But we can also pick
(12:42):
up on Richie's future but later, But how did what's
your assessment of how Damian McKenzie went pretty good in
the first half, but when that platform wasn't there and
the rush got to him a little bit, some of
the option taking accuracy maybe dipped got a.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Little bit rushed at times it felt Damian McKenzie and
rushed into his options, and that was a credit to
the way that England were able to put the pressure
on him. Felt like a couple of times he he scrambled,
you know, obviously the penalty goalkicker or timed out aside,
you know, kicking those two crucial penalties, getting the All
(13:18):
Blacks first behind by two then putting them in front.
That's the kind of steal you want from your goalkicker.
So I can't fault him there too much necessarily. I mean,
you keep those conversions in the first bow you take
a fourteen seventeen leading to halftime game slightly different as well.
So he got the kicks when it matted, I say
(13:39):
out loud, but maybe he also didn't. But he was
an integral part and why the All Blacks won that Test.
But at the same time could have even asserted his dominance.
I thought a bit more on that Test match. And
he's got to find ways when he's not getting time
in space to counter that and figure out ways to
pull apart defenses when you know the platform isn't necessarily
(14:01):
being rolled out for him.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Yeah, and he can't do it alone.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
He did set up severy recent the crossfield kick to
get around the rush, but is going to be a
massive focal point for the All Blacks. How do they
escape Felix Jones's rush defense and the pressure. How do
they create more time and space? Is it through kicking
him behind and you know Chip kicks Chip crossfield kicks
to the wings. It been more direct trying to go
(14:26):
through the middle of the English pack, around the fringes
or switch moves around the ruck. So I think Mackenzie,
for me, had a very good first half and then
got a wee bit rattled. He went back to buzzing
around and struggled to assert himself in the same way,
and I think his performance would be viewed very differently.
(14:47):
Headingland snatched at the death because that timed out penalty
would have been extremely costly, and to his credit, he
fronted up post match and said, look, yeah, if England
had won that game, it would have been a disaster.
So that timed out penalty could have been a massive
talking point.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I do want to throw a question about you seven,
Peter Feder in just a moment, but let's talk about
that timed out penalty because a bit of confusion post
match as to how it all play, I don't know
how it played out on SkyTV and what comms viewers
at home we're getting. Certainly in the stadium you don't know.
There is no shot clock, and that's perhaps an issue
that they need to fix and make permanent around grounds
(15:23):
around the world. I know some do, but certainly not
a standard that World rugby in force. But in my
years hearing during match commentary the referee said twenty seconds.
He was quite clear and then gave another warning to McKenzie.
Now where the McKenzie can hear it is another matter entirely.
(15:43):
The rest might up We hear it throughout commentary effects,
but you've just got to be a bit better and
cognizant of that. Yes, late in the game you want
to use up as much time as possible, but these
are the rules now. The shot clock exists and you
can't use up any more time than you're entitled to.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
No, I don't have a problem with it, and I
think you've got to be self aware that the spotlight
is a lot more on you in the seventy eighth
minute than it is in the fifteenth, because naturally you're
more inclined to want to waste time when you're up
by one point, potentially going to go up by four,
then you're at the start of the match. And Keewis
can't get on their high horse about this because it
(16:20):
was only a couple of years ago in Melbourne that
the All Blacks escape because of this not exact scenario,
but it was from a penalty where Bernard Foley was
paying for time wasting and there was certainly a few
ossies on on Twitter out there reminding everyone of that.
So look, I think mackenzie was aware of it. He
was warned in his previous kick that he was pushing
(16:43):
the envelope and again to his credit, he acknowledged postmatch
it was his own fault.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
This is where the game's going as well.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Scott Robertson said this, it's about speeding it up, not
just in this regard, but when you look at scrums
and lineouts, and the All Blacks have had frustrations with
opposition teams going down and feigning injuries or trying to
slow the pace of the game.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
So they need to embrace this and own and they are.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I thought a big call from Nickarmischa Kelly to
make in front of a home crowd, you know, late
in the game, but he made the right one, similar
to Machi Ray now in Melbourne a couple of years ago.
So big call Stephen Petterfetz to fullback was the surprise selection.
We certainly didn't pick it when we convened last week
on Rugby Direct that he was going to get the
fifteen jersey. He did and played what fifty four minutes
(17:30):
I think it was in Saturday night's Test match. How
would you assess Stephen Peter Feeder's biggest Test start to
this point.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
I thought he grabbed his chance by and large. There
was obviously the one movement where he's set up the try.
But what I like about his combination with mackenzie is
he's far more natural in that second playmaker role to
allow McKenzie to take the reins and to try and
be the man outside him to play second fiddle. He
(18:00):
is very comfortable in that role where I feel like
when it's Boden Barrett, it's almost the reverse the Barrett
as a senior guy. Almost you know, it has taken
him a number of years to feel comfortable playing second
fiddle to a degree from fullback. So I thought Stephen
Peterfizer played very well. Bowden off the bench, I thought
he played well as well. He made an impact when
(18:23):
he came on from the backfield, couple of kicks in
the behind the defense.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
So I think that is a very live discussion for
the second Test.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me, and we might get into some
of the changes a wee bit later on, but maybe
they flipped them around for this test. Any other points
that you want to add about the All Blacks first
Test of the.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
Year, Well, that's one question. Who's your man of the match?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Probably Addie Save. I thought he was immense, just gets
over the game line every time he carries big on defense.
You know, obviously scored that the second try for the
All Blacks, but he's the kind of player and I
thought that he stood up, you know, in a team
that needed that kind of performance last night. I don't
think anyone had a bad game per se, but I
(19:06):
thought Adie Savy was just a little bit better than
the others.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
One of yourself, Yeah, Artie was good. I'll go someone
different just for arguments sakes. Severy Reese outstanding a guy,
first Test in two years, and it wasn't just what
he did with the ball. Both him and Mark Tillia
are superbot going looking for work, coming off their wings,
getting involved, great feet, quite deceptively strong. But on defense
chasing kicks, I think it was Furbank. He absolutely barreled,
(19:32):
and the crowd in front of him on the far
side to us and directly in front of you on
commentary went ballistic. So I think he enjoyed, relished being
back out there and really took his chance.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
And it's very contestable, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Because the All Blacks have stacks of outside backs, but
Talia and Reese really stood out for me.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah, I thought they were both exceptional and Reese perhaps
or one of those preaps unfortunate not to result in
a penalty as well for the All Black. So I
guess signs of improvement what they need to improve on
for the next years. We've covered a few of them,
but you know, I think line out and getting some
clarity around some of those scrumbles are the wrong with
(20:14):
the referee interpret it incorrectly or weren't seeing the pictures
that the All Blacks thought that I was putting there
seem like obvious things that they'll look at this week
in the training.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I'll probably drew down to four things. They'll be the lineout,
the breakdown, the better decision making on attack, and just
being a bit more aggressive I think on defense.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
So yeah, I think who's going to improve more is
a question for you next week, England or the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I think the All Blacks, which I don't mean to
some disrespectful to England, but I think the All Blacks
can go and improve more than he had ten days together.
I think England will improve. I think it's natural that
look like a team that is improving with every game
in world rugby. I think there are a team really
on the rise, and you look to twenty twenty seven,
a lot of young players in that Max and that
(21:07):
England team. I think they're really on the rise. But
if you look at the next six seven days for
the next test at Edon Park, I think the All
Blacks can prove more than England that time frame.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Yeah, And I don't know how much more England can
throw at the All Blacks in terms of surprise packages.
And I also don't know how much more the All
Blacks will throw at their players because it is a
small window. It's probably more about refining and an element
of continuity and cohesion more than it is throwing more
(21:38):
moves and set players. But the more time this team
has together, the hope, certainly the expectation is that Razor
will improve them. So this for me, that's why this
was England's big shot and they blew it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Let's take a break on Rugby directs Powered by Excess
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Speaker 2 (22:00):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Every tribe had sixty seconds tackle get up again at.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Him afore time. It's Rugby Direct, Ladies, talk me.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
You're back with Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions from
our Daneden studio. Time now for our final four for
rugby topics that we dissected. Mate, well, there's plenty of
other matches on the go. We had Australia Wales, South
Africa versus Ireland in the Republic, Argentina and France that
the Maldi All Blacks and the Japan fifteen playing as
(22:39):
well might be missing one or the other thing. Canada
played Scotland a.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
Couple of wins for I think some are in fests.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes, indeed so plenty of rugby as the window opens up.
Let's start with Australia Wales potentially what stood out for
you in that one limb.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Two pretty poor teams I think on the whole, two
teams at low ebbs, but from an Australian perspective, a
very important victory for Joe Schmitt to start that tenure.
And I saw a comparison last November. The Wallabies lost
to Wales by thirty old points World Cup at the
World Cup, and they're here they are beaten them by
(23:19):
by ten a matter of months later, So that's a
massive swing in the context of a very short space
of time. Joe Schmidt didn't pick any overseas players, picked
a lot of workers in Australia.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
I think you.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It was very.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Script for Joe bore retention, low error rates, late try,
individual brilliance from Tom Wright helped them get over the line.
So it was in the context of where Australian rugby
is at that was just so needed to start that
rebuild on that.
Speaker 6 (23:56):
Sort of note.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
And look, gats is under massive pressure, isn't he Increasingly
it looks like he's yesterday's man.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
How many losses? Isn't that I think it's eight for Wales. Yeah, look,
I don't know that they've got the cattle necessarily Wales
at this point in time, but I'm not sure, as
you said, Gatland is the right bloke to be leading
this team, especially what this team needs now in terms
of building towards twenty twenty seven or maybe even beyond that.
(24:26):
You know, few young players in there, but it feels
like they don't have a generational player or two like
an alan Wynn Jones or some of those great front
rows that they've had through the years, great tens, fifteens
they've had in recent times. Yeah, all those Sam Wilburton,
(24:47):
you know, it feels like they're missing. They've got players,
you know, Aaron wayIn Wrights and impresses me when he
he looks good, but fuel and far between, and that's
the big issue for Wales among others in their system.
At the moment, I thought the Wallabies did exactly what
they needed to do. Tom Wright's got a wonderful long
range try and you keep perform like that the Eddie
(25:09):
Jones era. We'll get further into the review mirror and
maybe positive times here again for the Wallabies.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
It's just about baby steps. Isn't it rebuilding confidence? You
think about the damage just that Eddie Jones did to
future generations, Carter Gordon leaving and you know he picked
a squad for last World Cup with the next World
Cup of mines, so we were told, and so Joe's
had to come in and start from scratch, start from
(25:39):
a low ebb. It's about building, rebuilding confidence and momentum,
and that's a great start for them.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It is. Indeed, South Africa island. This was in the
early hours of the morning in New Zealand, but goodwin
for South Africa beating Ireland first up. It was a
weird old game to an extent, sort of was in
fits and starts for a period. South Africa leading twenty
points to eight with about five six minutes to go,
and then all hell breaks loose essentially and find it
(26:08):
was twenty seven to twenty and Ireland had a position
right at the end and maybe could have mounted something
to at least draw the game. But I think South
Africa would be relatively happy with what they were able
to do in that performance. A couple of crucial erarors
from Ireland and in Rass's men continue on their mirror
(26:31):
way they do.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Indeed, this is an important win for South Africa too,
because they hadn't beaten Ireland for a number of years
and they'd hyped it up significantly with the promotional material
that Ruzzi and their official accounts have been put out,
and I love that by all means, bring the hype,
bring the noise, bring the eyeballs and attention to rugby.
(26:54):
These are two best teams in the world going at it.
South Africa is an incredibly tough place to tour, loft
of sad altitude, and Ireland competed well to a degree,
but it never felt like they were going to win
that game. They were always behind the eight ball and
South Africa stuck to their blueprint in terms of rolling
six forwards off the bench, all at the same time
(27:15):
monstering the Irish scrum, which was a real definitive moment
in that game. And I think it will be hard
for Ireland now to not be swept over there. But
in a very intriguing series and two quality teams, I
think if you sat back and watched all three of
those games this weekend, there's a definitive difference between the
(27:38):
All Blacks England Island, South Africa and Wales and Australia.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, I think that's probably fair. The other one I
want to touch on before we do it, I'll throw
to you feed any other thoughts. But Argentina France. Now,
France left a whole lot of players behind in France.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Funny enough, no top fourteen finalists.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
No, and.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Perhaps the expectation was that Argentina, with most of their
key players there would be able to beat this French team,
but probably speaks to the depth of France have got.
There was a stand around how many debutantes I think
twenty in the squad of forty odd there were captain
by a bloke that didn't make the World Cup last year.
But this generation of French dragging now, whether results in
(28:22):
a World Cup title or not, very very rich in talent,
and we saw that with them comfortably beating Argentina.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
I think it's fair to say most informed rugby people
would say that the domestic scene in France is the
richest in the world. That's a well supported, well funded,
well contested competition and like you say, it's their strength
and depth that they've got. They've been a powerhouse in
the under twenties in recent years. New Zealand fantastic win
(28:53):
last week to get up over the French side, but
like you say, so many debutantes in that team to
go to Argentina, who are not a powerhouse of the
rugby world currently, but that's a great one for them.
And I think France and South Africa could name two
international teams and be very competitive that I would say
(29:17):
they have the best depth in the rugby world right now.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Any other thoughts from those games that we perhaps not
necessary watch but a quarter a glimpse of over the
course of the weekend.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
It's hard to take it all and isn't it, But
I think on the whole win for the Southern hemisphere,
France the only nation to win, but Fiji and Samoa
getting up and my prediction of US of a sweep
in those other games and other nations.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Still on indeed topic two in the final four on
Rugby Direct, any changes likely for that All Blacks team
heading back to Auckland for the second test.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Well, as you mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday and
we will learn on Monday. TJ Pearra's fate, but I
would be very surprised if he is fit to take
the field at Eden Park and the second Test against England.
It looks like a bit of mcl We saw him
wandering around the lobby today. It didn't look horrific long term,
(30:16):
but maybe maybe a medium short to medium term knee ligaments.
And if that scenario plays out, Finlay Christie is likely
to go on to start.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
That's a concern for me.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
I thought Finlay was off the pace in the second
half against England, didn't necessarily have the platform with some
of his kicking accuracy. He's quite undecisive at the base.
But I can see the All Blacks favoring that experience.
That would scenario would bring Cortez Ratima onto the bench
for his debut, and that would really excite me. His
(30:49):
dynamic prospect, running game, quite physical point of difference for
the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
There.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Before we get to the rest of the changes in
the squad, let's say that happens. Piranara's out for the
rest of July. Who's the All Blacks wall call on
in a half back replacement? Who are they going to
call on? That's a fascinating question, isn't it. As I
buy myself some time while I ponder, I mean I've
ponder what I'm going to say here. Look, I think
(31:16):
Noah Hotham is the man to call in now, similarly
to perhaps someone like a George Bell.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
It's an eye to the future selection. You know, Ken
Royguard is going to be back. We hope around the
end of year tour mark. I'm hearing positive signs from
people that know him quite well that he's on track
for that point. If not, maybe let's hope Counties, maybe
towards the back end of the NPC. You know, you
got TJ Hopefully, let's hope that injury is not too bad.
(31:44):
So you're looking rather than a misaffects it, You're looking
towards the future, but something that could also is also
capable of debuting in the next week. While I think
Noah Hotham has that role, he impressed me during the
latter stages of Super Rugby. Has he got more starts
under his belt, dynamic from the base of the right
good kicking game. It looks like a really, really promising
player for the future. His time is probably a wee
(32:06):
bit further down the track. But I think if you're
looking for a replacement a third half back in the squad,
then he's your guy. I look, I'll throw the question
back at you before I entertain some of the other options,
but who would you go with?
Speaker 6 (32:21):
Personally?
Speaker 5 (32:21):
I would go with Nah Hotham as well. I'm a
huge fan of his running game and his vision, just
as the style he brings. I think in the wheeldgame,
if you take a step back, your half back needs
to be a threat around the fringes, and I don't
see Finlay Christie as that guy. He's good support player,
but he doesn't really bring a running presence to hold
(32:42):
those ruck defenders. And if you don't have that, you're
really missing a trick. So I think Hotham does bring that.
Where I think the All Blacks might go is if
you look out there in terms of a lightful like
replacement for per Andara falal Fucka Tava is probably the
closest because he's a big presence, he's physical, he brings
that running presence. He didn't have the greatest season with
(33:05):
the Highlanders and probably has faded from where he was
a couple of years ago, but he has test experience,
and I think there is an element of risk of
having two rookie halfbacks in your three pronged nine mix.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, although Fucka tavas not really an experienced half back himself.
We've played two tests in twenty twenty two. Was discarded
after that injured, also scarted.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
He's played a lot more super rugby than I hope has.
But it is fascinating to see where they go. Yeah,
you had one left field suggestion that almost got got
my backhand with said.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Your cheese whole cheese rolls, chucking on your cheese rolls
at lunch time, Mitch Drummond don't like it a player
that has had one All Blacks cap and as a
player that would probably be most likeful. Like in terms
of Finlay Christie, You've already got Finlay Christie in the squad.
(34:02):
But I think you see what Scott Robertson did at
the Crusaders. His half back wasn't the star of the
show ccesserely in his era at the Crusaders, you had Drummond,
you had Britain Hall with auduistict to both of those,
they were only tangentially in the All Blacks conversation for
a long period of time. Wasn't what the All Blacks
were looking for, but it was exactly what Scott Robertson
was looking for in his time in charge and allowed
(34:24):
the franchise quarterback and Richie and Wanger to basically pull
the strings of the team. Whether that's what he wants
at an All Blacks level is another matter entirely. But
if you're looking for a mister fix it for a
let's say, let's hope best case scenario TJP in an
hour's out for say a month. I'm not saying he's
going to play, you know, more than one of those
tests necessarily, But mittch Drummond could come in and do
(34:46):
a job. He could where there's not many options running
out to it.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
No, look, I think it's a possibility for me.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
That's incredibly conservative, safe stopgap measure, and time has passed
him by Mitch Strummonds. Noah Hotham was starting over him
for the Crusaders and should have been since the start
of the year. But look, when you've got a former
Crusaders coach in charge and two Crusaders assistants in their
mixt what about be.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Ruled out Willie Hines, he's completed as international stand down
from England. How special would it be for him to
come and play again? I did have a when you
were just running your stories earlier.
Speaker 6 (35:28):
And Hyland this country you got a back for our
day and I didn't I.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Think any other changes we touched a bit earlier. Possibly
I could see Pea Fetter and Boden Barratt being switched
for Eden Park Para Feder dropping to the bench. Hard
to see too many other changes too. That makes I
mean you could perhaps look at even blackout or off
the bench for Luke Jacobson. Don't know that Luke Jabson
did much wrong last night, but it could just be
a switch that they look to give some of them
(35:54):
a bit of game time in these first couple of
tests this season.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
I think, broadly speaking, there's not going to be a
lot of changes, and Scott Robertson alluded to that today
when he talked about continuity and cohesion, that the All
Black SEV comes together short space of time, throwing a
lot at each other, and they'll want to build on
that platform without throwing too many changes into the mix.
And they've got a lot to fix. So I think
the live discussions are fullback. Whether Boden comes in that's
(36:21):
interesting given the explanation given for Peter Fetter was that
he had played more than Barrett Boden had had one
game at club level for Coastal in the past five weeks,
so there would be rationale there, but it would be
an extremely harsh call given the way Peter Fetter played
and blindside is a live discussion. Like you, I didn't
(36:43):
think some opinion necessarily imposed himself in the same physical
way that we saw him. You know, he was the
chiefs hit man, he was the enforcer. We didn't see that,
and that's the difference between super rugby and test level.
So I think ethan blackheader is if he's fit, I
would like to see him coming to the mix, whether
that's starting or off the bench. It's hard to see
(37:05):
too many other changes. Is that Damion McKenzie will retain
the berth at ten. You don't change the wings. I
don't think you changed the midfield, the front row, the locks.
So it'll be more about refining, being more accurate with
the execution.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
They're making major positional tweaks.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Agreed Topic three in the final four slightly rhetorical, but
what point is there in a shot clock if it's
not on the big screen, if.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
There's none And this is as much about your audience
as anything else. It's about the crowd and you're paying punters.
What the Dunedin Force Life bar did well was put
a line across the screen with the refereeing decisions keep
people informed.
Speaker 6 (37:51):
And not only did Damien McKenzie.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
You know he's required to count in his head to
be aware of how much time he's using. Just a
weird explanation here as well. Six because I didn't know
this how it works. Sixty seconds for a penalty kick.
That's from the time that the referee blow his whistle
for the penalty. So you've got to get your tea on,
you have to get the ball, you have to lie.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
When you signal that you want to take the shot of.
Speaker 5 (38:14):
Go yes, sorry, that's right. So you have to rush
that tea on, get it set up and knock it over.
It's not a lot of time, but you're right. How
hard would it be to put a little shot clock
on the big screen. And for those pain punters at
home watching every kick, I think it adds a bit
of jeopardy to it as well. It just seems so simple,
(38:35):
such a common sense thing.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
There are some places around the world and I can't
think of the top of it that do have that
on the that have implemented that should be mandated by
World Rugby. Hopefully look at Eden Parks. Scott Robertson said
they leave it to Mark Robinson to get on the
blod and Nick shaught it. Maybe they can make it
happen this week.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
The only thing I would say about that is the
referee as a sole adjudicator of time, right, So if
the shot clock is deemed to be out and the
referee doesn't blow it or there's a discrepancy there, then
you put a lot of scrutiny on the referee when
he might have judicated it differently. So maybe that's part
consideration to it, but it's good punt. I think ultimately
(39:12):
you need to be keeping your audiences informed.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Topic number four throwing around a bit on x formerly
Twitter today suggestion that maybe the new head coach of
the All Black, Scott Robertson, is getting an easy ride
on the basis of that one point when in the
first Test in England and against England and maybe comparing
it to the previous era under Ian Foster from the media.
(39:38):
I guess your thoughts on that, Liam and whether Scott
Robinson's getting an easy ride.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Look, I don't think he's getting an easy ride, but
there's no denying that the perception, the backdrop, the public
good will will favor towards Scott Robinson is incredibly different
than it is for Foster, and it is funny when
you compare their respective starts. Foster drew an eighty eight
minute Test match against the Wallabies and Wellington in October
(40:06):
of twenty twenty, so we had to wait three months
in the COVID year, and you know that sparked a
lot of concern. Scott Robertson could have easily drawn his
first tests and emerges with the one point one everyone saying, look,
give him time. He's had a limited preparation window. So
I think there's validity to the different perceptions. But I
(40:29):
think there's still many people within the media and public
that would be sitting back unconvinced with the All Blacks performance,
asking questions, being critical, expecting improvements next week. So there
is validity in the different perceptions. But I don't think
he's getting an easy road.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Mine. So that is they won. It's a test match.
They won, Yes, not as pretty as perhaps we would
have liked, but they won. The Test match and winning
here was virtually everything.
Speaker 6 (40:58):
Yeah, it's a great point, right.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
A couple other points of business before we wrap up.
You mentioned Richie wong early on in the show bit
of media he did around the traps last week with
our good friend Paul Cully and also the New Zealand
Herald as well, suggesting that now whether talks are in
motion or not, but certainly there's an openness from Richie
(41:22):
Moonger suggesting that he has unfinished business in New Zealand
and wants at some point to return to New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
What was your take on this, look, I don't think
it's a surprise.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
You know, we had Chris Lendrummond a number of months
ago and he signaled that those talks were happening. To
put it bluntly, I think I would put my house
on the fact that Richie Muonger will come home after
his second season in Japan. So we're talking July next year,
which would be a year earlier than expected. And like
(41:54):
you say in Paul's piece, he certainly referenced the fact
that it was hard watching the Crusaders, that's seeing the
All Blacks first Team of the Year be named. There's
a longing to be there. This is a guy at
the peak of his power. He needs to be playing
test rugby. It's a crime that we don't get to
(42:14):
see him. He's sitting in the stands on Saturday night.
Speaker 6 (42:17):
How hard would that be? From ye, he had a
great time on the bus, but that's not where he
really wants to be.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
We can have great times on the bus, but you know,
this is what he's paid to b He's in the
prime of his athletic career, should be playing for the
All Blacks, and that's one they let it get away.
He's on rugby.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Yeah, and from a he's a competitor and don't discount
the Scott Robertson fact. We heard from Seva Reese last
week that he basically walked away from an overseas deal
because Racy said to.
Speaker 6 (42:45):
Him, Hey, remember I got you to the Crusaders, mate,
you owe me.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
And he's a raiser, is an extremely popular figure, particularly
with those Crusaders guys. Raised his relationship with Richie Wong
as well documented. So Richie will want to come back
and be a part of an All Black team that
he is leading, and I feel like he will be
back in July and that would give him the best
(43:11):
part of what's that two years to lead into a
World Cup. But it does create a very interesting dynamic
around the All Blacks number ten, Jersey and mcdamion, McKenzie
and Bowden, Barrett's role and others Stephen Petterfetter, that dynamic
is gonna be fascinating to see how Scott Robertson manages
those personalities and those selections.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
It is. Indeed a few super Rugby transfers announced last
week as well as flagged a couple of weeks ago
on the broadcast Swine Tangatao leaving the Blues to go
to the Highlanders. A couple of good pickups for them.
Speaker 6 (43:48):
Zach Gellah has seen the light and going to the Canes.
Smart man, Smart.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Man, you're behind Jamie Hannah future all Black and a
good move for Zack Gallagher, I'm sure, joining the Hurricanes.
Hurricanes also losing just In Sankster to Japan. Josh Moreby
well flagged that he's moving to France, and another one,
Selessie Rayasi going to France as well.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
Yeah, and young talent moving on, isn't it. I guess
it makes sense to a degree those guys aren't in
the all blacks frame and you cash and while you can.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
But I'll see one of the sort of what ifs.
Maybe I think perhaps a few defensive frailties and his
reads on the game. But when he's got ball in hand,
he's explosive. He's fun to watch, really really good player,
strong at sevens, good for Auckland and the NPC, and
when he's taken those opportunities for the Hurricanes, I think
has been impressive as well, but just probably just a
(44:41):
tear blow where the All Blacks and with the log
gem of outside backs probably sees the writing on the
wall a little bit.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
Extremely gifted athlete, isn't he ball in hand?
Speaker 5 (44:49):
I think he scored a hat trick for the Hurricanes
and one match this year, But you're right, defensively and
just consistent struggled. So yeah, he's decided to cash in
and you can't begadge those guys. What about the best
news of the week, curiously of Rob van Royan out
of krash search that the great Man, the Messiah Rob
(45:11):
Penny has resigned with the Crusaders.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Well, yeah, not officially confirmed, so there is time to
backtrack on this. Still look, I suppose he's got a
contract for two years, doesn't he, Rob Penny, and he
was never going anywhere?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Was here?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
No, I don't think so. It would have been a
bold move and an a precedented moved from New Zealand,
from a New Zealand rugby franchise to make that sort
of decision.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
I can hear the enthusiasm in your voice out there.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
We talked about Warren Gatlan being Yesterday's man and I
think that falls under Rob Penny as well. In all honesty,
and sometimes you don't know that the sport has passed
you by until you're at the top eleven realize it has.
Warren Gatlan was an by and larger failure at the Chiefs.
Warren ball didn't work in Super Rugby. Doesn't look like
it's working up in Wales now orbit with a different
(46:04):
crop of talent to the one he had perhaps under
a previous regime. But I think Rob pennies the same,
just not the kind of coach that the Crusaders want. Sorry,
the Crusaders players knees. When you've gone from perhaps the
new school of coaching to Scott Robertson, now you're going
back to dar I say it from what I understand
the old school and look, from all accounts, Rob Penny
(46:24):
great bloke, lovely man, but I just do not think
he's the man that crusaders need at the top of
the tree at the moment. And that's why I would
pull the trigger if it's Tumbody Allison from twenty twenty six,
put him in from twenty twenty five if that's your
game plan, or look elsewhere. Yeah, but look, good reporting
from Rob van Royin on that front. And I'm sure
(46:45):
we'll see if that review is released.
Speaker 5 (46:46):
And all yeah, I think the review will be released.
But whether they make a song and dance about Rob
Penny being retained, probably.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Probably not want to make a song and dance about it.
Probably going to go well of the socials. I suspect
probably free size Pity not going anywhere. It's not going
to get likes.
Speaker 6 (47:03):
There's some good memes to be had there.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
Look, what I would say is it's not a news
yelling Rugby's culture to fire coaches generally speaking the All Blacks.
That was the exception to the rule in mid twenty
two when they were forced basically to change assistant coaches.
So from my mind, I never expected the Crusaders to
get rid of Penny. I don't believe that's the right decision,
(47:26):
but it is quite a cultural thing where you look
abroad and it is more common. But sorry, there are
big questions about Penny's tenure and some of the selections
the continued like a discipline that we saw last year,
that their inability to win tight games. There was a
litany of things that you could point to, and I
(47:47):
agree with you, he's not the right fit, not the
right man for that job.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
There's always a lot of talk about high performance standards
and what's best for high performance culture, and if it's
getting rid of the coach, surely that is part of
the top tier of high performance standards. It may not
be the quote unquote efficult thing to do, but if
you were preaching a high performance and environment and looking
for the best type performance you can possibly get, then
(48:12):
that needs to transfer to being as brutal with coaches
as you would be with players.
Speaker 6 (48:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5 (48:20):
The other thing I would say about the context of
the Crusaders obviously lost a lot of personnel next year
if they can keep will Jordan Ethan Blackhead, A Scott
Barrett Cody Taylor. These guys didn't play a lot of
rugby for the Cruisaders. This year they will make a
big difference. But with Penny in charge, I still don't
see them as a top four team, and that's.
Speaker 6 (48:42):
Where they should be.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
They consistently set the standards and the empire basically crumbled
overnight and there's got to be a degree of accountability
for that.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
It does. That'll about do us for a Rugby Direct
nursing a little injury, so just going to call it
slightly earlier than what happened there. Well, I believe in fact,
I know for a fact you punched me right on
the near bit of the elbow, right in the bone.
And this is a out as the recording, probably about
six hours ago, and I am struggling still to move.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I'm not look I'd just like to go on records.
So I don't generally go out to bully people. But
when you when you live in a confined space for
a short space of time, sometimes is a few tour
casualties and.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Like bath housing and it's ended in a tour injury.
Speaker 6 (49:30):
Yes, well you rest them.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
That's gonna be in the media inside on a Friday.
Ragby Direct at the scenes until next week on Rugby
Direct thanks to your company. We'll catch you next week
after the All Blacks have their second test of the year.
Thanks as always to excess solutions and also laughs and
bars and was retiring this all together. See you next
week on rag
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Betterrect For more from News Talks B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
Inside the Game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Excess Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Elligott Smith with
me as always Liam Nape, your chief sports writer for
the New Zealand Herald and Rugby Correspondent. We are live
from Rugby Directs, Dunedin's studio for this one. Liam and
the All Blacks are on the board for twenty twenty four,
(00:45):
sixteen fifteen win over England. We're recording this on Sunday
afternoons and not even twenty four hours after the final whistle,
Still there, pab periala hory, God, Holy God, it's a
summer in the show.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
But the old Max, Who's when this first test of
the year han only holding on all right? Solder Popular
was the man. They got the penalty and now the
All Blacks need just to get it into clutch. Everyone
needs to take a deep breath. Damian McKenzie taps texts
it at the touch and you We're right of All
(01:21):
Black rugby because with an old natured Test match time
wrestle you see at sixteen and for fifteen full time
at bull Side bart Stadium and dun Eden.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
This dig right into it. Your initial reactions to the
first eighty minutes under head coach Scott.
Speaker 5 (01:40):
Robertson rusty, nervous, unconvincing, I think on the whole, but
not totally unexpected given the limited preparation window, the eighteen
new managements that have come in the biggest change for
the All Blacks in twenty years. A lot of personnel
have left since the World Cup, a lot of experience,
(02:01):
so did expect them to be a bit rusty to
try and come together and put it all on the
park straight off the bats, But look, I think it
was an escape. The All Blacks were somewhat fortunate to
come away with victory and have a positive story to
sell to spin. It's a platform, it's a start and
(02:21):
England will rule this Test. This was their best chance
and it is one that got away from them.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
How did it get away from them? I guess is
what we look at. They were fifteen ten up in
the first spell and second spell and it kind of
felt like the bench perhaps for England didn't quite add
the impact that maybe was necessary. I thought Alex Mitchell
had a superb game at half back for England. When
he was replaced Ben Spencer comes on, it felt like
they just lost a little bit of pace out of
(02:48):
the ruck. Marcus Smith I thought had the All Blacks
guessing a lot more than Finn Smith who came on,
and just a couple of those other changes apart from
Tom Curry, I thought as Per is excellent. They got
sixty minutes out of Baxter on debut as well, but
just felt like maybe that last twenty twenty five minutes
when the All Blacks went up evil and had some
(03:08):
of their replacements come on and make impact, England didn't
quite have the same impact from their bench.
Speaker 5 (03:14):
Yeah, that's a fair assumption I was equally impressed with
as a former halfback retired now myself.
Speaker 6 (03:20):
Alex Mitchell was exceptional.
Speaker 5 (03:22):
His darts from the base down the short side ball
in two hands, putting doubt in the All Blacks defensive mind.
He was a real live wire for the English at
half back. His box kicking very accurate as well. Mara
a ToJ world class, isn't he the way he competed
at line out time and at the breakdown. England's increasingly
(03:43):
made a mess of the All Blacks ball. I think
they got six turnovers. Four of those came from the backs,
Olie Lawrence getting too so Chandler Cunningham South was another
big presence with ball in hands. So look, England left
their mark, but I think they were fortunate to be
locked at ten or a half time. The All Blacks
(04:05):
should have collected more points. They were extremely dominant in
that first half. England came out of the gate in
the second and really put it on them in that
third quarter and had a lot of momentum in descendancy.
The All Blacks had to fight their way through a
lot of adversity. The game basically comes down to Marcus
Smith missing a number of kicks. If you do the math,
(04:27):
the game should have been a draw, and I think
that probably is a fair reflection of a scrappy contest.
Marcus Smith missed eight points, Damien McKenzie seven, including that
not controversial but a very rare timed out penalty. He
missed seven, So you do the math, that's a draw
and it was very hard to separate these teams. So
(04:50):
the All Blacks look, they fought their way through adversity.
They took Damian McKenzie kicked to penalties to finish and
they had to repel England after the time out penalty
to finish the match. So you could say they were
more composed and took their chances.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
But there was nothing in that.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
No, there wasn't, and it was a narrow tester. It
felt maybe just before halftime the All Blacks were beginning
to get the ascendancy just a fraction. They were leading
ten to seven, and then I think the momentum swung
back England's way by a pretty shoddy decision I thought
from the All Blacks to continue playing after the siro. Now,
(05:25):
nothing wrong necessarily with having a little bit of a crack,
but they weren't getting over the advantage line, the game line.
They're being repelled by England. At that point, someone needs
to go kick it into touch. We'll take a ten
to seven lead into half time. Didn't happen quickly enough.
England get a penalty, Marcus Smith kicks it over ten
all and psychologically they head into the sheds just a
little bit happier, probably than the All Blacks, even though
(05:47):
the game is on an even keel, at least on
the scoreboard. They come out of the second half Marcus
Smith is an early penalty, but they spend the first
ten to twelve minutes. It felt like anyway of the
first a second spell camped and All Black's territory. They
got rewarded with a try through Emmanuel fa Woboso, who
I thought was very very good when he got ball
in hand for England, and it felt like they'd taken
(06:10):
the momentum away from the All Black sides. Little things
like that that you can decide to change your arm
a little bit, but there needs to be some leadership
on the park and go let's get this into touch
and take the half time. I know, with the little
bit rattled by t J. Petinara's injury there around that point,
but the decision making I thought was better later in
the game for the All Blacks, and it certainly probably
was either side of halftime.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
It's a good point, and I think the TJ. Peter
and a injury did affect them at that time. They
felt like they were really ragged, just going side to side,
not really going anywhere, and like you say, at that
point somebody needs to step up and say this isn't
worth the risk. We're inside our own half, let's kick
it out, let's regroup. Because Pedinara's distribution to that point
(06:52):
had been really good. I thought his clearances off the
left boot box kicks very accurate. I thought he was
you know, this's his first test for twenty months and
made a real impression when he went got injured with
the cleanout, which I don't have an issue with. I
think it was just so straightforward, cleaner. Unfortunate in the
way that Scott Barrett fell on him and twisted his knee.
(07:13):
That definitely affected his ability to lean over his passing
leg and that contributed to the All Blacks becoming ragged.
And yeah, it was a bit of a turning point
England going in a halftime level when they didn't really
deserve to be.
Speaker 6 (07:26):
They've been on the back foot.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
The All Black scrum, which I think we should touch on,
was extremely dominant, probably the best part of their game,
and from an officiating perspective, some really perplexing rulings around
the All Blacks not getting the rewards they deserved there.
Speaker 6 (07:44):
What was your read on that?
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, it felt like they had found England out at
scrum time. In all honesty, first scrum the game, England
gets awarded a penalty. Now for me, I think you
as a referee need to have a little bit more
feeling in the game and go, let's just let the
two packs settle rather than because making a penalty in
the first game, whichever way goes, you're kind of setting
(08:06):
a little bit of precedent. But in subsequent scrums, the
All Blacks had the ascendancy, didn't always get the rewards.
I didn't think from Nick imusher Kelly, who by and
large ike you thought had a pretty decent game, but
they sort of didn't get the rewards there. But it
was a very very good part of the All Blacks
game used it as a bit of a weapon. Just
(08:27):
probably the platform has laid to an extent. We just
didn't see enough from the backs to really dig into
what the Scott Robinson game plan is going to be
when backs get ball in hand. We saw obviously Severi
score an early try Ardie Savilla scorer as well, both
coming down the right wing flank. But I guess if
(08:47):
we look at it from a whole eighty minutes, did
you see Scott Robinson game plan beginning to emerge at
all and is it too early to perhaps expect something
like that.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
I think there were the elements there around the scrum.
I think they would have liked to have used them
more more. That will be a big part of this
All Blacks game. I think they will be appointed at times.
With their defense. It wasn't as aggressive enough if you
look at the way England defended with their line speed.
Now you don't have to bring that umbrella style, but
(09:18):
just getting up off the line in England's faces. I
felt like the All Blacks were a bit passive and
they allowed England to come to them, particularly in that
second quarter, gave them meters.
Speaker 6 (09:26):
That's right attacking perspective wise.
Speaker 5 (09:30):
You could see the way they were trying to get
around the English defense with one or two pods a
wee bit wider and I was impressed on the whole
by Stephen Peterfetz's contribution at the back. There was the
biggest talking point selection wise last week him over Boden Barrett.
He jinked out of ben Earle's tackle to set up
(09:50):
Artie Severe. But look, it is early and they would
have thrown a lot at the players. Stylistically, there wasn't
too much to pick out of it other than the
pillars that you would want. If we break it down
even further and go into what you'd expect out of
the All Blacks, what you take away from let's say
the forward pack.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
We've talked about the scrum, the.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Line out struggled, lost three of their own throws from
a ball carrying perspective, looking at the breakdown the defense,
did the All Blacks pack provide enough punch?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I don't think probably as much as they would have
liked necessarily, and that's because of England's umbrella defense as well.
I think in terms of the carry, you know, some
of those big men like to groot. We're getting sort
of half over the advantage line and being pushedback. Lomax
as well. I thought Semipenny Fena had a quietish night
(10:45):
to an extent before he went off with his hia,
which he passed. By the way, Don Papoli, you thought
I had a good game. Artie Savia was excellent. You
wouldn't known that he's been in Japan and away from
New Zealand rugby for quite some time. And I thought
Patrick twp so Patrick twe Blood and Scot Bear. I
don't think eyone had a bad game to say, but
it just felt like in terms of the carry, just
a little bit more punch from some of those forwards
(11:05):
and the All Blacks could have the advantage line a
little bit more and set themselves up for a bit
more success. The lineout is the worrying one as well.
Now Marotoji had at least a steal too, depending on
how you read it, and Scott Robertson pointed that out
when we convened so with him from me decision earlier
in the day. One of those was balking as well
(11:28):
that it can be fixed from a suffer a more.
But the line out throwing has been a worry of
a Mullward's game. So I felt that the lineout was
a little creaky first test of the year and you'd
want that to be fixed as you had to eaven
Park next week.
Speaker 6 (11:41):
Well, it's a massive area.
Speaker 5 (11:42):
The All Blacks pride themselves on their set piece and
there was always going to be a big spotlight on
the line out. Posts Broder Metallic and Sam Whitelocke. I
thought Scott Barrett was really good around the field there
was one big counter ruck that he drove into. He
was busy, but the lineout needs to be better because
it's such a focal point of an attacking platform. That's
(12:04):
where you want to strike or from all over the
park and England did well to disrupt that and they
will be looking at that again, so Jason Ryan his
area of expertise and Scott Robertson to a degree, they
will be drilling down into that.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
What about the back line.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Let's pick up on Damien McKenzie's game in particular, big
test for him. I think it was only his fifth
or sixth start and forty eight odd tests in the
ten Jersey. We had Richie Wonga sitting in the stands
with Richie's bus tour. They looked like they had a
hell of a time him and Shannon Frazelle with the punters,
which is great to see. But we can also pick
(12:42):
up on Richie's future but later, But how did what's
your assessment of how Damian McKenzie went pretty good in
the first half, but when that platform wasn't there and
the rush got to him a little bit, some of
the option taking accuracy maybe dipped got a.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Little bit rushed at times it felt Damian McKenzie and
rushed into his options, and that was a credit to
the way that England were able to put the pressure
on him. Felt like a couple of times he he scrambled,
you know, obviously the penalty goalkicker or timed out aside,
you know, kicking those two crucial penalties, getting the All
(13:18):
Blacks first behind by two then putting them in front.
That's the kind of steal you want from your goalkicker.
So I can't fault him there too much necessarily. I mean,
you keep those conversions in the first bow you take
a fourteen seventeen leading to halftime game slightly different as well.
So he got the kicks when it matted, I say
(13:39):
out loud, but maybe he also didn't. But he was
an integral part and why the All Blacks won that Test.
But at the same time could have even asserted his dominance.
I thought a bit more on that Test match. And
he's got to find ways when he's not getting time
in space to counter that and figure out ways to
pull apart defenses when you know the platform isn't necessarily
(14:01):
being rolled out for him.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Yeah, and he can't do it alone.
Speaker 5 (14:04):
He did set up severy recent the crossfield kick to
get around the rush, but is going to be a
massive focal point for the All Blacks. How do they
escape Felix Jones's rush defense and the pressure. How do
they create more time and space? Is it through kicking
him behind and you know Chip kicks Chip crossfield kicks
to the wings. It been more direct trying to go
(14:26):
through the middle of the English pack, around the fringes
or switch moves around the ruck. So I think Mackenzie,
for me, had a very good first half and then
got a wee bit rattled. He went back to buzzing
around and struggled to assert himself in the same way,
and I think his performance would be viewed very differently.
(14:47):
Headingland snatched at the death because that timed out penalty
would have been extremely costly, and to his credit, he
fronted up post match and said, look, yeah, if England
had won that game, it would have been a disaster.
So that timed out penalty could have been a massive
talking point.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I do want to throw a question about you seven,
Peter Feder in just a moment, but let's talk about
that timed out penalty because a bit of confusion post
match as to how it all play, I don't know
how it played out on SkyTV and what comms viewers
at home we're getting. Certainly in the stadium you don't know.
There is no shot clock, and that's perhaps an issue
that they need to fix and make permanent around grounds
(15:23):
around the world. I know some do, but certainly not
a standard that World rugby in force. But in my
years hearing during match commentary the referee said twenty seconds.
He was quite clear and then gave another warning to McKenzie.
Now where the McKenzie can hear it is another matter entirely.
(15:43):
The rest might up We hear it throughout commentary effects,
but you've just got to be a bit better and
cognizant of that. Yes, late in the game you want
to use up as much time as possible, but these
are the rules now. The shot clock exists and you
can't use up any more time than you're entitled to.
Speaker 5 (15:59):
No, I don't have a problem with it, and I
think you've got to be self aware that the spotlight
is a lot more on you in the seventy eighth
minute than it is in the fifteenth, because naturally you're
more inclined to want to waste time when you're up
by one point, potentially going to go up by four,
then you're at the start of the match. And Keewis
can't get on their high horse about this because it
(16:20):
was only a couple of years ago in Melbourne that
the All Blacks escape because of this not exact scenario,
but it was from a penalty where Bernard Foley was
paying for time wasting and there was certainly a few
ossies on on Twitter out there reminding everyone of that.
So look, I think mackenzie was aware of it. He
was warned in his previous kick that he was pushing
(16:43):
the envelope and again to his credit, he acknowledged postmatch
it was his own fault.
Speaker 6 (16:48):
This is where the game's going as well.
Speaker 5 (16:50):
Scott Robertson said this, it's about speeding it up, not
just in this regard, but when you look at scrums
and lineouts, and the All Blacks have had frustrations with
opposition teams going down and feigning injuries or trying to
slow the pace of the game.
Speaker 6 (17:05):
So they need to embrace this and own and they are.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Yeah, I thought a big call from Nickarmischa Kelly to
make in front of a home crowd, you know, late
in the game, but he made the right one, similar
to Machi Ray now in Melbourne a couple of years ago.
So big call Stephen Petterfetz to fullback was the surprise selection.
We certainly didn't pick it when we convened last week
on Rugby Direct that he was going to get the
fifteen jersey. He did and played what fifty four minutes
(17:30):
I think it was in Saturday night's Test match. How
would you assess Stephen Peter Feeder's biggest Test start to
this point.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
I thought he grabbed his chance by and large. There
was obviously the one movement where he's set up the try.
But what I like about his combination with mackenzie is
he's far more natural in that second playmaker role to
allow McKenzie to take the reins and to try and
be the man outside him to play second fiddle. He
(18:00):
is very comfortable in that role where I feel like
when it's Boden Barrett, it's almost the reverse the Barrett
as a senior guy. Almost you know, it has taken
him a number of years to feel comfortable playing second
fiddle to a degree from fullback. So I thought Stephen
Peterfizer played very well. Bowden off the bench, I thought
he played well as well. He made an impact when
(18:23):
he came on from the backfield, couple of kicks in
the behind the defense.
Speaker 6 (18:27):
So I think that is a very live discussion for
the second Test.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, wouldn't surprise me, and we might get into some
of the changes a wee bit later on, but maybe
they flipped them around for this test. Any other points
that you want to add about the All Blacks first
Test of the.
Speaker 6 (18:39):
Year, Well, that's one question. Who's your man of the match?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Probably Addie Save. I thought he was immense, just gets
over the game line every time he carries big on defense.
You know, obviously scored that the second try for the
All Blacks, but he's the kind of player and I
thought that he stood up, you know, in a team
that needed that kind of performance last night. I don't
think anyone had a bad game per se, but I
(19:06):
thought Adie Savy was just a little bit better than
the others.
Speaker 5 (19:09):
One of yourself, Yeah, Artie was good. I'll go someone
different just for arguments sakes. Severy Reese outstanding a guy,
first Test in two years, and it wasn't just what
he did with the ball. Both him and Mark Tillia
are superbot going looking for work, coming off their wings,
getting involved, great feet, quite deceptively strong. But on defense
chasing kicks, I think it was Furbank. He absolutely barreled,
(19:32):
and the crowd in front of him on the far
side to us and directly in front of you on
commentary went ballistic. So I think he enjoyed, relished being
back out there and really took his chance.
Speaker 6 (19:44):
And it's very contestable, wasn't it.
Speaker 5 (19:46):
Because the All Blacks have stacks of outside backs, but
Talia and Reese really stood out for me.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Yeah, I thought they were both exceptional and Reese perhaps
or one of those preaps unfortunate not to result in
a penalty as well for the All Black. So I
guess signs of improvement what they need to improve on
for the next years. We've covered a few of them,
but you know, I think line out and getting some
clarity around some of those scrumbles are the wrong with
(20:14):
the referee interpret it incorrectly or weren't seeing the pictures
that the All Blacks thought that I was putting there
seem like obvious things that they'll look at this week
in the training.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I'll probably drew down to four things. They'll be the lineout,
the breakdown, the better decision making on attack, and just
being a bit more aggressive I think on defense.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
So yeah, I think who's going to improve more is
a question for you next week, England or the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I think the All Blacks, which I don't mean to
some disrespectful to England, but I think the All Blacks
can go and improve more than he had ten days together.
I think England will improve. I think it's natural that
look like a team that is improving with every game
in world rugby. I think there are a team really
on the rise, and you look to twenty twenty seven,
a lot of young players in that Max and that
(21:07):
England team. I think they're really on the rise. But
if you look at the next six seven days for
the next test at Edon Park, I think the All
Blacks can prove more than England that time frame.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Yeah, And I don't know how much more England can
throw at the All Blacks in terms of surprise packages.
And I also don't know how much more the All
Blacks will throw at their players because it is a
small window. It's probably more about refining and an element
of continuity and cohesion more than it is throwing more
(21:38):
moves and set players. But the more time this team
has together, the hope, certainly the expectation is that Razor
will improve them. So this for me, that's why this
was England's big shot and they blew it.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Let's take a break on Rugby directs Powered by Excess
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Speaker 2 (22:00):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
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Speaker 3 (22:18):
You're back with Rugby Direct power by Excess Solutions from
our Daneden studio. Time now for our final four for
rugby topics that we dissected. Mate, well, there's plenty of
other matches on the go. We had Australia Wales, South
Africa versus Ireland in the Republic, Argentina and France that
the Maldi All Blacks and the Japan fifteen playing as
(22:39):
well might be missing one or the other thing. Canada
played Scotland a.
Speaker 6 (22:43):
Couple of wins for I think some are in fests.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Yes, indeed so plenty of rugby as the window opens up.
Let's start with Australia Wales potentially what stood out for
you in that one limb.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Two pretty poor teams I think on the whole, two
teams at low ebbs, but from an Australian perspective, a
very important victory for Joe Schmitt to start that tenure.
And I saw a comparison last November. The Wallabies lost
to Wales by thirty old points World Cup at the
World Cup, and they're here they are beaten them by
(23:19):
by ten a matter of months later, So that's a
massive swing in the context of a very short space
of time. Joe Schmidt didn't pick any overseas players, picked
a lot of workers in Australia.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
I think you.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It was very.
Speaker 5 (23:37):
Script for Joe bore retention, low error rates, late try,
individual brilliance from Tom Wright helped them get over the line.
So it was in the context of where Australian rugby
is at that was just so needed to start that
rebuild on that.
Speaker 6 (23:56):
Sort of note.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
And look, gats is under massive pressure, isn't he Increasingly
it looks like he's yesterday's man.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
How many losses? Isn't that I think it's eight for Wales. Yeah, look,
I don't know that they've got the cattle necessarily Wales
at this point in time, but I'm not sure, as
you said, Gatland is the right bloke to be leading
this team, especially what this team needs now in terms
of building towards twenty twenty seven or maybe even beyond that.
(24:26):
You know, few young players in there, but it feels
like they don't have a generational player or two like
an alan Wynn Jones or some of those great front
rows that they've had through the years, great tens, fifteens
they've had in recent times. Yeah, all those Sam Wilburton,
(24:47):
you know, it feels like they're missing. They've got players,
you know, Aaron wayIn Wrights and impresses me when he
he looks good, but fuel and far between, and that's
the big issue for Wales among others in their system.
At the moment, I thought the Wallabies did exactly what
they needed to do. Tom Wright's got a wonderful long
range try and you keep perform like that the Eddie
(25:09):
Jones era. We'll get further into the review mirror and
maybe positive times here again for the Wallabies.
Speaker 5 (25:18):
It's just about baby steps. Isn't it rebuilding confidence? You
think about the damage just that Eddie Jones did to
future generations, Carter Gordon leaving and you know he picked
a squad for last World Cup with the next World
Cup of mines, so we were told, and so Joe's
had to come in and start from scratch, start from
(25:39):
a low ebb. It's about building, rebuilding confidence and momentum,
and that's a great start for them.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
It is. Indeed, South Africa island. This was in the
early hours of the morning in New Zealand, but goodwin
for South Africa beating Ireland first up. It was a
weird old game to an extent, sort of was in
fits and starts for a period. South Africa leading twenty
points to eight with about five six minutes to go,
and then all hell breaks loose essentially and find it
(26:08):
was twenty seven to twenty and Ireland had a position
right at the end and maybe could have mounted something
to at least draw the game. But I think South
Africa would be relatively happy with what they were able
to do in that performance. A couple of crucial erarors
from Ireland and in Rass's men continue on their mirror
(26:31):
way they do.
Speaker 5 (26:32):
Indeed, this is an important win for South Africa too,
because they hadn't beaten Ireland for a number of years
and they'd hyped it up significantly with the promotional material
that Ruzzi and their official accounts have been put out,
and I love that by all means, bring the hype,
bring the noise, bring the eyeballs and attention to rugby.
(26:54):
These are two best teams in the world going at it.
South Africa is an incredibly tough place to tour, loft
of sad altitude, and Ireland competed well to a degree,
but it never felt like they were going to win
that game. They were always behind the eight ball and
South Africa stuck to their blueprint in terms of rolling
six forwards off the bench, all at the same time
(27:15):
monstering the Irish scrum, which was a real definitive moment
in that game. And I think it will be hard
for Ireland now to not be swept over there. But
in a very intriguing series and two quality teams, I
think if you sat back and watched all three of
those games this weekend, there's a definitive difference between the
(27:38):
All Blacks England Island, South Africa and Wales and Australia.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Yeah, I think that's probably fair. The other one I
want to touch on before we do it, I'll throw
to you feed any other thoughts. But Argentina France. Now,
France left a whole lot of players behind in France.
Speaker 6 (27:53):
Funny enough, no top fourteen finalists.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
No, and.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Perhaps the expectation was that Argentina, with most of their
key players there would be able to beat this French team,
but probably speaks to the depth of France have got.
There was a stand around how many debutantes I think
twenty in the squad of forty odd there were captain
by a bloke that didn't make the World Cup last year.
But this generation of French dragging now, whether results in
(28:22):
a World Cup title or not, very very rich in talent,
and we saw that with them comfortably beating Argentina.
Speaker 5 (28:29):
I think it's fair to say most informed rugby people
would say that the domestic scene in France is the
richest in the world. That's a well supported, well funded,
well contested competition and like you say, it's their strength
and depth that they've got. They've been a powerhouse in
the under twenties in recent years. New Zealand fantastic win
(28:53):
last week to get up over the French side, but
like you say, so many debutantes in that team to
go to Argentina, who are not a powerhouse of the
rugby world currently, but that's a great one for them.
And I think France and South Africa could name two
international teams and be very competitive that I would say
(29:17):
they have the best depth in the rugby world right now.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Any other thoughts from those games that we perhaps not
necessary watch but a quarter a glimpse of over the
course of the weekend.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
It's hard to take it all and isn't it, But
I think on the whole win for the Southern hemisphere,
France the only nation to win, but Fiji and Samoa
getting up and my prediction of US of a sweep
in those other games and other nations.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Still on indeed topic two in the final four on
Rugby Direct, any changes likely for that All Blacks team
heading back to Auckland for the second test.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Well, as you mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday and
we will learn on Monday. TJ Pearra's fate, but I
would be very surprised if he is fit to take
the field at Eden Park and the second Test against England.
It looks like a bit of mcl We saw him
wandering around the lobby today. It didn't look horrific long term,
(30:16):
but maybe maybe a medium short to medium term knee ligaments.
And if that scenario plays out, Finlay Christie is likely
to go on to start.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
That's a concern for me.
Speaker 5 (30:29):
I thought Finlay was off the pace in the second
half against England, didn't necessarily have the platform with some
of his kicking accuracy. He's quite undecisive at the base.
But I can see the All Blacks favoring that experience.
That would scenario would bring Cortez Ratima onto the bench
for his debut, and that would really excite me. His
(30:49):
dynamic prospect, running game, quite physical point of difference for
the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
There.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Before we get to the rest of the changes in
the squad, let's say that happens. Piranara's out for the
rest of July. Who's the All Blacks wall call on
in a half back replacement? Who are they going to
call on? That's a fascinating question, isn't it. As I
buy myself some time while I ponder, I mean I've
ponder what I'm going to say here. Look, I think
(31:16):
Noah Hotham is the man to call in now, similarly
to perhaps someone like a George Bell.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
It's an eye to the future selection. You know, Ken
Royguard is going to be back. We hope around the
end of year tour mark. I'm hearing positive signs from
people that know him quite well that he's on track
for that point. If not, maybe let's hope Counties, maybe
towards the back end of the NPC. You know, you
got TJ Hopefully, let's hope that injury is not too bad.
(31:44):
So you're looking rather than a misaffects it, You're looking
towards the future, but something that could also is also
capable of debuting in the next week. While I think
Noah Hotham has that role, he impressed me during the
latter stages of Super Rugby. Has he got more starts
under his belt, dynamic from the base of the right
good kicking game. It looks like a really, really promising
player for the future. His time is probably a wee
(32:06):
bit further down the track. But I think if you're
looking for a replacement a third half back in the squad,
then he's your guy. I look, I'll throw the question
back at you before I entertain some of the other options,
but who would you go with?
Speaker 6 (32:21):
Personally?
Speaker 5 (32:21):
I would go with Nah Hotham as well. I'm a
huge fan of his running game and his vision, just
as the style he brings. I think in the wheeldgame,
if you take a step back, your half back needs
to be a threat around the fringes, and I don't
see Finlay Christie as that guy. He's good support player,
but he doesn't really bring a running presence to hold
(32:42):
those ruck defenders. And if you don't have that, you're
really missing a trick. So I think Hotham does bring that.
Where I think the All Blacks might go is if
you look out there in terms of a lightful like
replacement for per Andara falal Fucka Tava is probably the
closest because he's a big presence, he's physical, he brings
that running presence. He didn't have the greatest season with
(33:05):
the Highlanders and probably has faded from where he was
a couple of years ago, but he has test experience,
and I think there is an element of risk of
having two rookie halfbacks in your three pronged nine mix.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, although Fucka tavas not really an experienced half back himself.
We've played two tests in twenty twenty two. Was discarded
after that injured, also scarted.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
He's played a lot more super rugby than I hope has.
But it is fascinating to see where they go. Yeah,
you had one left field suggestion that almost got got
my backhand with said.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Your cheese whole cheese rolls, chucking on your cheese rolls
at lunch time, Mitch Drummond don't like it a player
that has had one All Blacks cap and as a
player that would probably be most likeful. Like in terms
of Finlay Christie, You've already got Finlay Christie in the squad.
(34:02):
But I think you see what Scott Robertson did at
the Crusaders. His half back wasn't the star of the
show ccesserely in his era at the Crusaders, you had Drummond,
you had Britain Hall with auduistict to both of those,
they were only tangentially in the All Blacks conversation for
a long period of time. Wasn't what the All Blacks
were looking for, but it was exactly what Scott Robertson
was looking for in his time in charge and allowed
(34:24):
the franchise quarterback and Richie and Wanger to basically pull
the strings of the team. Whether that's what he wants
at an All Blacks level is another matter entirely. But
if you're looking for a mister fix it for a
let's say, let's hope best case scenario TJP in an
hour's out for say a month. I'm not saying he's
going to play, you know, more than one of those
tests necessarily, But mittch Drummond could come in and do
(34:46):
a job. He could where there's not many options running
out to it.
Speaker 6 (34:51):
No, look, I think it's a possibility for me.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
That's incredibly conservative, safe stopgap measure, and time has passed
him by Mitch Strummonds. Noah Hotham was starting over him
for the Crusaders and should have been since the start
of the year. But look, when you've got a former
Crusaders coach in charge and two Crusaders assistants in their
mixt what about be.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Ruled out Willie Hines, he's completed as international stand down
from England. How special would it be for him to
come and play again? I did have a when you
were just running your stories earlier.
Speaker 6 (35:28):
And Hyland this country you got a back for our
day and I didn't I.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Think any other changes we touched a bit earlier. Possibly
I could see Pea Fetter and Boden Barratt being switched
for Eden Park Para Feder dropping to the bench. Hard
to see too many other changes too. That makes I
mean you could perhaps look at even blackout or off
the bench for Luke Jacobson. Don't know that Luke Jabson
did much wrong last night, but it could just be
a switch that they look to give some of them
(35:54):
a bit of game time in these first couple of
tests this season.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
I think, broadly speaking, there's not going to be a
lot of changes, and Scott Robertson alluded to that today
when he talked about continuity and cohesion, that the All
Black SEV comes together short space of time, throwing a
lot at each other, and they'll want to build on
that platform without throwing too many changes into the mix.
And they've got a lot to fix. So I think
the live discussions are fullback. Whether Boden comes in that's
(36:21):
interesting given the explanation given for Peter Fetter was that
he had played more than Barrett Boden had had one
game at club level for Coastal in the past five weeks,
so there would be rationale there, but it would be
an extremely harsh call given the way Peter Fetter played
and blindside is a live discussion. Like you, I didn't
(36:43):
think some opinion necessarily imposed himself in the same physical
way that we saw him. You know, he was the
chiefs hit man, he was the enforcer. We didn't see that,
and that's the difference between super rugby and test level.
So I think ethan blackheader is if he's fit, I
would like to see him coming to the mix, whether
that's starting or off the bench. It's hard to see
(37:05):
too many other changes. Is that Damion McKenzie will retain
the berth at ten. You don't change the wings. I
don't think you changed the midfield, the front row, the locks.
So it'll be more about refining, being more accurate with
the execution.
Speaker 6 (37:20):
They're making major positional tweaks.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Agreed Topic three in the final four slightly rhetorical, but
what point is there in a shot clock if it's
not on the big screen, if.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
There's none And this is as much about your audience
as anything else. It's about the crowd and you're paying punters.
What the Dunedin Force Life bar did well was put
a line across the screen with the refereeing decisions keep
people informed.
Speaker 6 (37:51):
And not only did Damien McKenzie.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
You know he's required to count in his head to
be aware of how much time he's using. Just a
weird explanation here as well. Six because I didn't know
this how it works. Sixty seconds for a penalty kick.
That's from the time that the referee blow his whistle
for the penalty. So you've got to get your tea on,
you have to get the ball, you have to lie.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
When you signal that you want to take the shot of.
Speaker 5 (38:14):
Go yes, sorry, that's right. So you have to rush
that tea on, get it set up and knock it over.
It's not a lot of time, but you're right. How
hard would it be to put a little shot clock
on the big screen. And for those pain punters at
home watching every kick, I think it adds a bit
of jeopardy to it as well. It just seems so simple,
(38:35):
such a common sense thing.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
There are some places around the world and I can't
think of the top of it that do have that
on the that have implemented that should be mandated by
World Rugby. Hopefully look at Eden Parks. Scott Robertson said
they leave it to Mark Robinson to get on the
blod and Nick shaught it. Maybe they can make it
happen this week.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
The only thing I would say about that is the
referee as a sole adjudicator of time, right, So if
the shot clock is deemed to be out and the
referee doesn't blow it or there's a discrepancy there, then
you put a lot of scrutiny on the referee when
he might have judicated it differently. So maybe that's part
consideration to it, but it's good punt. I think ultimately
(39:12):
you need to be keeping your audiences informed.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Topic number four throwing around a bit on x formerly
Twitter today suggestion that maybe the new head coach of
the All Black, Scott Robertson, is getting an easy ride
on the basis of that one point when in the
first Test in England and against England and maybe comparing
it to the previous era under Ian Foster from the media.
(39:38):
I guess your thoughts on that, Liam and whether Scott
Robinson's getting an easy ride.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
Look, I don't think he's getting an easy ride, but
there's no denying that the perception, the backdrop, the public
good will will favor towards Scott Robinson is incredibly different
than it is for Foster, and it is funny when
you compare their respective starts. Foster drew an eighty eight
minute Test match against the Wallabies and Wellington in October
(40:06):
of twenty twenty, so we had to wait three months
in the COVID year, and you know that sparked a
lot of concern. Scott Robertson could have easily drawn his
first tests and emerges with the one point one everyone saying, look,
give him time. He's had a limited preparation window. So
I think there's validity to the different perceptions. But I
(40:29):
think there's still many people within the media and public
that would be sitting back unconvinced with the All Blacks performance,
asking questions, being critical, expecting improvements next week. So there
is validity in the different perceptions. But I don't think
he's getting an easy road.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Mine. So that is they won. It's a test match.
They won, Yes, not as pretty as perhaps we would
have liked, but they won. The Test match and winning
here was virtually everything.
Speaker 6 (40:58):
Yeah, it's a great point, right.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
A couple other points of business before we wrap up.
You mentioned Richie wong early on in the show bit
of media he did around the traps last week with
our good friend Paul Cully and also the New Zealand
Herald as well, suggesting that now whether talks are in
motion or not, but certainly there's an openness from Richie
(41:22):
Moonger suggesting that he has unfinished business in New Zealand
and wants at some point to return to New Zealand.
Speaker 6 (41:28):
What was your take on this, look, I don't think
it's a surprise.
Speaker 5 (41:33):
You know, we had Chris Lendrummond a number of months
ago and he signaled that those talks were happening. To
put it bluntly, I think I would put my house
on the fact that Richie Muonger will come home after
his second season in Japan. So we're talking July next year,
which would be a year earlier than expected. And like
(41:54):
you say in Paul's piece, he certainly referenced the fact
that it was hard watching the Crusaders, that's seeing the
All Blacks first Team of the Year be named. There's
a longing to be there. This is a guy at
the peak of his power. He needs to be playing
test rugby. It's a crime that we don't get to
(42:14):
see him. He's sitting in the stands on Saturday night.
Speaker 6 (42:17):
How hard would that be? From ye, he had a
great time on the bus, but that's not where he
really wants to be.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
We can have great times on the bus, but you know,
this is what he's paid to b He's in the
prime of his athletic career, should be playing for the
All Blacks, and that's one they let it get away.
He's on rugby.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Yeah, and from a he's a competitor and don't discount
the Scott Robertson fact. We heard from Seva Reese last
week that he basically walked away from an overseas deal
because Racy said to.
Speaker 6 (42:45):
Him, Hey, remember I got you to the Crusaders, mate,
you owe me.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
And he's a raiser, is an extremely popular figure, particularly
with those Crusaders guys. Raised his relationship with Richie Wong
as well documented. So Richie will want to come back
and be a part of an All Black team that
he is leading, and I feel like he will be
back in July and that would give him the best
(43:11):
part of what's that two years to lead into a
World Cup. But it does create a very interesting dynamic
around the All Blacks number ten, Jersey and mcdamion, McKenzie
and Bowden, Barrett's role and others Stephen Petterfetter, that dynamic
is gonna be fascinating to see how Scott Robertson manages
those personalities and those selections.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
It is. Indeed a few super Rugby transfers announced last
week as well as flagged a couple of weeks ago
on the broadcast Swine Tangatao leaving the Blues to go
to the Highlanders. A couple of good pickups for them.
Speaker 6 (43:48):
Zach Gellah has seen the light and going to the Canes.
Smart man, Smart.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Man, you're behind Jamie Hannah future all Black and a
good move for Zack Gallagher, I'm sure, joining the Hurricanes.
Hurricanes also losing just In Sankster to Japan. Josh Moreby
well flagged that he's moving to France, and another one,
Selessie Rayasi going to France as well.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
Yeah, and young talent moving on, isn't it. I guess
it makes sense to a degree those guys aren't in
the all blacks frame and you cash and while you can.
Speaker 3 (44:20):
But I'll see one of the sort of what ifs.
Maybe I think perhaps a few defensive frailties and his
reads on the game. But when he's got ball in hand,
he's explosive. He's fun to watch, really really good player,
strong at sevens, good for Auckland and the NPC, and
when he's taken those opportunities for the Hurricanes, I think
has been impressive as well, but just probably just a
(44:41):
tear blow where the All Blacks and with the log
gem of outside backs probably sees the writing on the
wall a little bit.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
Extremely gifted athlete, isn't he ball in hand?
Speaker 5 (44:49):
I think he scored a hat trick for the Hurricanes
and one match this year, But you're right, defensively and
just consistent struggled. So yeah, he's decided to cash in
and you can't begadge those guys. What about the best
news of the week, curiously of Rob van Royan out
of krash search that the great Man, the Messiah Rob
(45:11):
Penny has resigned with the Crusaders.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Well, yeah, not officially confirmed, so there is time to
backtrack on this. Still look, I suppose he's got a
contract for two years, doesn't he, Rob Penny, and he
was never going anywhere?
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Was here?
Speaker 3 (45:29):
No, I don't think so. It would have been a
bold move and an a precedented moved from New Zealand,
from a New Zealand rugby franchise to make that sort
of decision.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
I can hear the enthusiasm in your voice out there.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
We talked about Warren Gatlan being Yesterday's man and I
think that falls under Rob Penny as well. In all honesty,
and sometimes you don't know that the sport has passed
you by until you're at the top eleven realize it has.
Warren Gatlan was an by and larger failure at the Chiefs.
Warren ball didn't work in Super Rugby. Doesn't look like
it's working up in Wales now orbit with a different
(46:04):
crop of talent to the one he had perhaps under
a previous regime. But I think Rob pennies the same,
just not the kind of coach that the Crusaders want. Sorry,
the Crusaders players knees. When you've gone from perhaps the
new school of coaching to Scott Robertson, now you're going
back to dar I say it from what I understand
the old school and look, from all accounts, Rob Penny
(46:24):
great bloke, lovely man, but I just do not think
he's the man that crusaders need at the top of
the tree at the moment. And that's why I would
pull the trigger if it's Tumbody Allison from twenty twenty six,
put him in from twenty twenty five if that's your
game plan, or look elsewhere. Yeah, but look, good reporting
from Rob van Royin on that front. And I'm sure
(46:45):
we'll see if that review is released.
Speaker 5 (46:46):
And all yeah, I think the review will be released.
But whether they make a song and dance about Rob
Penny being retained, probably.
Speaker 3 (46:54):
Probably not want to make a song and dance about it.
Probably going to go well of the socials. I suspect
probably free size Pity not going anywhere. It's not going
to get likes.
Speaker 6 (47:03):
There's some good memes to be had there.
Speaker 5 (47:04):
Look, what I would say is it's not a news
yelling Rugby's culture to fire coaches generally speaking the All Blacks.
That was the exception to the rule in mid twenty
two when they were forced basically to change assistant coaches.
So from my mind, I never expected the Crusaders to
get rid of Penny. I don't believe that's the right decision,
(47:26):
but it is quite a cultural thing where you look
abroad and it is more common. But sorry, there are
big questions about Penny's tenure and some of the selections
the continued like a discipline that we saw last year,
that their inability to win tight games. There was a
litany of things that you could point to, and I
(47:47):
agree with you, he's not the right fit, not the
right man for that job.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
There's always a lot of talk about high performance standards
and what's best for high performance culture, and if it's
getting rid of the coach, surely that is part of
the top tier of high performance standards. It may not
be the quote unquote efficult thing to do, but if
you were preaching a high performance and environment and looking
for the best type performance you can possibly get, then
(48:12):
that needs to transfer to being as brutal with coaches
as you would be with players.
Speaker 6 (48:19):
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 5 (48:20):
The other thing I would say about the context of
the Crusaders obviously lost a lot of personnel next year
if they can keep will Jordan Ethan Blackhead, A Scott
Barrett Cody Taylor. These guys didn't play a lot of
rugby for the Cruisaders. This year they will make a
big difference. But with Penny in charge, I still don't
see them as a top four team, and that's.
Speaker 6 (48:42):
Where they should be.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
They consistently set the standards and the empire basically crumbled
overnight and there's got to be a degree of accountability
for that.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
It does. That'll about do us for a Rugby Direct
nursing a little injury, so just going to call it
slightly earlier than what happened there. Well, I believe in fact,
I know for a fact you punched me right on
the near bit of the elbow, right in the bone.
And this is a out as the recording, probably about
six hours ago, and I am struggling still to move.
Speaker 5 (49:14):
I'm not look I'd just like to go on records.
So I don't generally go out to bully people. But
when you when you live in a confined space for
a short space of time, sometimes is a few tour
casualties and.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Like bath housing and it's ended in a tour injury.
Speaker 6 (49:30):
Yes, well you rest them.
Speaker 3 (49:31):
That's gonna be in the media inside on a Friday.
Ragby Direct at the scenes until next week on Rugby
Direct thanks to your company. We'll catch you next week
after the All Blacks have their second test of the year.
Thanks as always to excess solutions and also laughs and
bars and was retiring this all together. See you next
week on rag
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Betterrect For more from News Talks B listen live on
air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
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