September 8, 2024 • 33 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier assess another All Blacks' defeat to the Springboks, this time in Cape Town as opportunities go begging. We ask what are the reasons for the All Blacks being unable to put away the 'Boks and what is missing from the side at the moment.
We also dig into further information around a 2026 tour of South Africa by the All Blacks, the possible ANZAC Day match against the Wallabies and chat the Ranfurly Shield changing hands.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from news Talks at B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Inside the Game from every angle, It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith, powered by news Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into RPY Direct, power by Excess Solutions, salivating you
and your business to a higher level. Back with you
from across Capetown and indeed New Zealand. After the All
Blacks so went down eighteen points to twelve to South
Africa in the second game of this two of the
fourth game with the Rugby Championship, it's a loss that
(00:46):
consigns the All Blacks the three defeats in their last
four full straight defeats of South Africa. The Freedom Cup
goes back to South Africa for the first time since
two thousand and nine. All sorts of things to unpack
once again. Liam, Greetings from Cape Town and look at
another loss for the All Blacks in similar risk condition,
(01:06):
you know, circumstances to the last.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's all another week, another deflating defeats, isn't it And
as you say, very similar circumstances and the trophy cabinet.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
You meant to rattle off some stats there for some seventy.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Five years that fullbacks have lost four times in a
row to South Africa and Raises Tenya is looking you know, teetering,
isn't it. He was came riding a wave of goodwill
and public support and he will certainly be feeling the
heat now on the trophy cabinet looking very bad. There's
(01:43):
going to be no Rugby Championship, no freedom cut, so
only the Blairs low left.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Indeed it is and cheaper is We'll get to the
Australia Argent send to result of it later on, but yeah,
I mean, surely that can't go this year. But anyway,
let's focus on the spring Box game first and foremost,
and for Megleam, this was a tale of just not
taking opportunities. I think the All Blacks had plenty of them,
plenty of opportunities or around the spring Box red zone
(02:11):
they could have capitalized on. They weren't good enough to
take those opportunities. They missed the penalty that would have
got in front. So ultimately, you know, similar to last week,
they were good enough to win that Test match but didn't.
It's not though I were blowing off the park. There
theres thereabouts but it was the critical moments that they're
just not nailing at the moment.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well that's there's once again, the All Blacks were dominant
in the first half and I think one of the
major concerns coming into this two tests series was how
the All Blacks would compete physically, because the forward pack
had struggled against England at home. Didn't really you know,
might have got parody at most. They were beaten at
(02:56):
the breakdown and the loss to the Pumas, and Wellington
obviously responded the following week, but going up against the
world champions on their on their home court, very physical
prow West. As we know, the spring box and the
All Blacks forward pack has been a revelation, a real
success on this tour. They fronted physically, they competed well,
they laid a platform and it's actually been the back line,
(03:18):
the decision making and the final quarters. The final quarter
collapses again. This is a fourth Test in succession where
the All Blacks have failed to score a point in
the final quarter.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
You mentioned the McKenzie kick, he missed three.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I've got question marks about why Jordi Barrett wasn't taking
the long kicks and then Obviously the All Blacks did
well to build pressure. There was a Scott Barrett drop
ball just completely slipped through his hands. There was a
line out era from Ardie Severe and then the McKenzie
missed penalty from thirty meters out bang in fronts. You know,
(03:53):
those are the kicks that you have to take. And
then the box come home late through Malcolm Marx. So
is it as much a mental failing for the All Blacks?
Are they wilting under the pressure more so than anything
else here?
Speaker 5 (04:09):
It's quite possibly it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And you look back, I mean, I think that's the
early two thousands where they just didn't quite have it
mentally over a very very good Wallaby side and they
went able to nail those key moments, and you think
years straight they're lost on Toto Kefu.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Try and Matt Book penalty.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
They seem to lose right at the very end in
those key matches and at that point it was sort
of they didn't have a mental fortitude to close out
those test matches. And I think that is where they're
at at the moment. They just don't quite have that
killer instinct that great All Blacks teams have. And indeed
this great Spring Box team does have it at the moment.
They you know, can go ten rounds a few maybe
(04:52):
be almost on the canvas, but they rise up and
they deliver the knockout blue when it really matters, and
that's what great rugby teams do. And I agree with
Scott robertson the fact that he says they're not far away,
but test rugby is a game of inches, and you're
not far away can feel like a million miles away.
And what we've seen over the last couple of weeks
(05:14):
is the All Blacks could be leaving South Africa, you know,
in theory, with two wins and no defeats. As it happens,
they're zero to two from the tour, and Rugby Championships
gone and the Freedom Cup has gone. So it's a
game of fine margins. And I think the thing for
the All Blacks is now is they have to get
those fine margins right. They have to get their mental
side of the game switched on again, and they have
(05:37):
to learn how to close out test matches. Something's not
right in those last twenty minutes of test matches. They
changed the bench around this week, bench didn't really have
too much of an impact this time of round so
and Sandarry didn't come on from the bench. So whether
that's the answer, whether it's it's you know, the bench
(05:57):
or whatever it is, there was changes made and it's
the same story as the previous week.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I want to touch on the bench there because for me,
it was very bizarre use of the bench. The All
Blacks props, I think both of them, certainly Tyrrel Lomax
because he got the late yellow card, paid seventy plus minutes.
You know, when's the last time you saw an All
Blacks prop go that deep into the game. I think
Fletchereneul might have played five or ten minutes. As you say,
(06:24):
Sam Darry didn't even come on off between a fussy
you know, barely used as well. So you know, the
All Blacks did reshape the bench and with Bodenbarro and TJ.
Perternaro there but some very bizarre substitutions or lack of
and that again goes back to the point that we
made last week about the lack of trust in the
(06:45):
bench and when you're coming up against the bomb squad
and we all know how vaunted they are, that was
bizarre for me. You know, the All Blacks props to
Mighty Williams and Tyrrel Lomax did very well throughout that test,
but I think there was an element of fatigue in
the Box winning some late scrum penalties and Tyrrel Lomax
(07:07):
given away that late yellow cards. I don't think there's
any need for the All Blacks props to be playing
seventy plus minutes.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I think they've got too able replacements in the form
of Offer and Fletcher that can come on. I thought
that was an interesting one. We haven't heard further about
a stuff when Cody Taylor I thought was the best
player in the park for the All Blacks in that game,
and he played all the game bar that time it
was off for an Hia and I did see a
suffer one more getting some treatment later in that periods
(07:37):
on the pitch, so maybe he wasn't fit to return.
But regardless, I mean, Cody Taylor was in ridiculous form
in that game yesterday, so I can.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Understand why they didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I guess we should pay respect to South Africa as well,
because I think this is a very very good spring
Box team and probably not getting the plaudits they deserve
in New Zealand. I mean, this is a team that
won a world championship last year and has just got
even better the year following. Reminds me a little bit,
to be honestly, in of twenty sixteen and the All
Blacks won the previous year. They had some retirements but
(08:08):
actually kicked on and performed even better in twenty sixteen.
So this is a very very good box team deserving
of their rugby championship win. That'll be rubber stamped, you
would think at some point in the next couple of
weeks once they get some points against Argentina. But this
is a box team that is imperious at the moment
and is running world rugby and leading the charge.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, one hundred percent earlier.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think there's a case to be made that this
is one of, if not the greatest spring box eras
and teams of all time. And there has been some
great South African teams down the years when you go
back in time, but their list of achievements, the depth
that they've built, you know, you can forget about how
(08:55):
many changes they made between Test one and two against
All Blacks here. They did the same when they were
in Australia, vastly different starting teams. They brought about Hondro
Pollard and Willie LaRue. I think it was five or
seven starting changes from Alice Park to Cape Town and
usually that would be disruptive. But their ability to know
(09:17):
their game, their depth of character and in a belief
they have been twice overturn leads against the All Blacks
and never really looked rattled. Obviously came over the top
and in the back end of those last quarters. So
you're right, we do need to pay tribute to this
box team. But we did see Ireland go out there
(09:39):
in July and respond from a first Test loss to
win their second test. So I think, you know, there's
a question mark around this All Black team, and I
think this is another reality check about just where New
Zealand rugby at the elite level is at. Maybe they
are I think world number three maybe currently, but maybe
(10:02):
there's even question marks about that because right now you
have to say Islands and South Africa are ahead of them.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Maybe France as well.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
England came down and there was a ding dong battle
in July here wasn't there, So there's a bit of
ground for this All Black team to make up and
just on you mentioned Cody Taylor there. You know, I
don't want to be too critical, so we'll have some
positives in here, you know, keep keep the mood up somewhat.
But Cody Taylor toop by coming of age tour. For him,
(10:32):
he was absolutely outstanding. Again, I thought Sam Kane was
good to Mighty Williams and Wallace a TC in his
first start. I think he missed a couple of tackles,
but in the unfamiliar role of blindside, I thought he
really stood up, physically, carried well, never looked overawed. So
he's got to be a long term prospect that he
(10:54):
has to be in that's the composition of that loose
Ford trio going forward.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Yeah, I think he was excellent.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Obviously the miss tackles aside, and you can kind of
forgive that to an extent given the.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
First test start and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Obviously it's a pressure burner environment, but I thought he
was press cooker environment suny. But I thought he was
absolutely superb in that start and he took his opportunities
and black Head are ruled out with a minor handstring injury.
Another issue for Ethan alongside his other ones he's had
throughout the course of his career. But SOA Titi stood
up and I suppose leading into that those players you
(11:29):
mentioned they are perhapsical, with the exception of Taylor and Kin,
a lot of them are young. And is this maybe
where the all Blacks now need to go? I mean,
they won't say it outright, we can sort of speculate
on it, but you know, should they I mean the
kind of halfway house for a rebuild at the moment?
Is it time to go full not baby blacks necessarily,
(11:50):
but give some of these younger players a shot. And
because clearly they're taking their chances at the moment, some
of those younger players they're putting in and look to
the future a little bit.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
It is it is one hundred percent time for that
to happen early.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I think it's been a really conservative selection ste for
Scott Robinson and you can understand that to a degree,
but there hasn't been enough evolution. He's you know, when
you look at the selections of TJ. Petinara and Sam
Kine to a lesser extent, he has picked for the
now and the need to win test matches now or
(12:26):
what he believes is necessary in this moment. But you're right,
the youth is what's actually performing for this All Black team.
Wallace a tit was another example. Peter Luckeye should be
in the squad for me, the really missing cam royguards.
He'll be back for the Northern Tour. But I also
think Billy Procter has to get a crack at center.
(12:47):
I think Riekowane could move out to the wing because
we need to talk about this All Black back three.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
They were very, very.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Underwhelming when they exposed under the high ball. Will Jordan
looks really short of a gallop after missing the whole
Super Rugby season. He was quite on the wing last week,
looked very uncomfortable at times at fallback. But just the
makeup of that back three for the All Blacks, they
were peepered with the high ball. They got exposed there.
It would be very very surprised if we saw that
(13:14):
back three start again.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Yeah, I don't think we'll see that in Sydney or Wellington.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Look at severy Reese deserved yellow card for that takeout
in the year. You can see maybe what he's trying
to do, but he completely misjudged it. March Talia is
not the player he was certainly in All Blacks Jersey
a couple of years ago. Even last year just seems
to have not quite got where he needs to be
(13:40):
this season, just doesn't seem to have that instinct with
born hand, hasn't been searching for work, made a couple
of errors in Cape Town here, so and then Will Jordan,
You're right, I think this looks out of sorts a
little bit at the moment. And you know hasn't played
a lot of rugby this season. You just wondered whether
some more rugby under his belt he can begin to improve.
(14:03):
It's it's only read the test arenderm where he can
get it. But maybe he goes and help out Tasma
with a shield challenge your shield defense next weekend against Wellington.
I don't know, but I think game times and is
the thing that Will Jordan needs to be a big
ass room to go halfway around the world and do that.
But he does look just not the player we know
he is, and I'm sure he'll get back to there
(14:23):
pretty quickly. But I think you two tests he's had
at full back starting now, I think the jury is
firmly out over whether that is the role that he
is destined for in this all blacks environment. I agree
about Billy Proctor. I think they need something in midfields.
I thought Antonine and Brown performed well when he came
off the bench, but I think someone like a Billy
(14:47):
prop dick and add a real edge to the all
Blacks and midfield. We saw he had a great game
against the Figians and San Diego hasn't been cited since.
I think putting him out against the Wallabies would be
a big boost for this it's all blacks back line.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Liam.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The Prenier question is obviously around the All Blacks and
not having South Africans Scythes and Super been missing that physicality.
Having seen this tour here, seeing the twenty twenty two tour,
obviously the World Cup final last year, where are you
at her on this whole debate?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Look, I think it's it is an issue in terms
of preparation for the elite arena Test arena that It's
clear Australian Super rugby teams are several rungs down. The
lack of competitiveness.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
There has been.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A deep seated frustration, but I think South Africa's exit
has been rewritten to a degree. Yes, it came about
because of COVID and New Zealand Rugby. Maybe I think
they forced the issue, but I think it would have
happened anyway. South Africa had a desire to hear north
because of the time zone, and I think that would
(15:59):
have always happened. And I think the physicality aspect is
somewhat overblown. I think if you look across New Zealand rugby,
there are the athletes there and I think when we
look at this tour, physicality hasn't been an issue. It's
been the last quarters. It's been the decision making, the
ill discipline, you know, the lack of accuracy that the
(16:21):
final quarter meltdowns. That's been the issue. So yes, in
an ideal world, New Zealand would have greater exposure to
South Africa. I think they're going to get that in
the coming years with more touring and the like. But
it's never going to change now. We can't go back
in time. They're not coming back to Super Ragby. So
it's about what can you do now.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It is and I think not I mean, I agree
with you on most those points there. I think around
South Africa it's been rewritten a significant amount. And this
is a very very good spring Box team we're watching
at the moment, and the All Blacks team are not
quite there, but it's not like their poles apart. I
think you look at Australia or in Argentina that result
(17:07):
this morning, look at South Africa in the way they
played Australia earlier on in this rugby Championship, that's a
bigger gap between those two. So while there are issues,
I'm sure it plays a little bit of a factor
the All blacksmissing South African experience super level, but I
don't think it's the be all and endul I think
the big issue for the All Blacks and you mentioned
(17:27):
some players there, but I think it's producing those big
body types that were actually struggling with at the moment
in New Zealand rugby, those big imposing body types, and
we just simply don't have the likes of body for
you that the South Africans are able to call on
and that are getting rugby game time. It's while we
people are looking at you know, Fabian Holland, who is
(17:49):
still more than a year away from being eligible to
play for the All Blacks, that New Zealanders just aren't
those big body types wh aren't getting them playing on
the rugby fields at the moment. I think that's the
big issue for New Zealand rugby. A lot of playing basketball,
a lot aren't playing sport at all. So if you
get more of those sort of body types on the
rugby fields, that's going to try into better games of
(18:10):
the domestic level, better games of the Super rugpy level.
Bigger players, you're playing those players more often. I think
that's the that's the real telling issue for New Zealand
rugby is finding these bigger bodies and getting them into
the mixes. Why they've targeted Josh Lord. You know, he's
barely played NPC was Super Rugby for the last three
or four years through injuries and various things. But he's
a kind of frame that they believe can be converted
(18:32):
into a test footballer.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
And so I think that's the ultimate one for the
All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
No doubt missing some of that phasicalty's key, but towards
the end of Super Rugby, those South African teams weren't
much chop anyway.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I think some of those records are you know, looked
at through roast and glasses. Some of the South African
teams were canon fighter to a certain degree. Wentn't they
blown out of the water when you look at the
cheatahs and the likes. So it wasn't like they were
coming down to New Zealand and knocking over teams here
on a regular basis. So yeah, one one question I
(19:07):
want to put to you we haven't touched on really
an overarching view of Scott Robinson's tenure to day So
four and three as it stands. You mentioned his record
before in terms of lost, what is it three of
the last four we've seen, you know, Leo McDonald exit abruptly.
What's his demeanor been like in South Africa in terms
(19:29):
of following these defeats.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
How do you think he's handling the pressure?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Because it always was going to be a massive step
step up from Super rugby to the Test scene. So
what's he been like from your perspective, how do you
think he's handling the pressure cooker of Test rugby?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well, I think he's frustrated because he can see it
almost coming together and it's not quite there and he
can see, you know, they scored one or two of
those opportunities or purity goal goes over, then they win
the Test match yesterday, or they put themselves in at
least in a very very good position to win the
Test match. So there's a little bit of frustration that
(20:05):
they those opportunities aren't being converted. I think the reality
of Tests rugby is certainly there now for Scott Robinson
is that these are the fine margins that Test rugby
is decided upon, and you have to back up week
after week. You have to wipe the slate clean. You're
not about accumulating competition points. You're not, you know, playing
(20:27):
the Blues one week and the Rebels the next. You're
playing you know, the Suffragans twice in a row, and
they're going to come at you and come at you
for the full eighty minutes. So I mean, I think
there's definitely a sense of belief from Scott Robinson, but
also a sense of frustration as well that it's not
coming together, maybe as quickly as he would have liked.
I interviewed in the Sky yesterday and he pointed out
(20:48):
that the South Africans were seven years into their journey
and the All Blacks are, you know, seven matches, so
there is a disparity there. But as an All Blacks
coach and as an All Blacks team, Unfortunately, you don't
get time to rebuild necessarily. There's an expectation that you
win and win every Test match, and at the moment
(21:08):
you pointed out the record four and three, with some
big Test matches to come later on in this season,
we've got to learn quickly about what test rugby is
about and for learn to execute those key moments.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, for me, it's been underwhelming to date because I
expected more. I expected him to come in with a
bit of a blank page and usher and not necessarily
an overnight revolution that's unrealistic. But I expected him to
put his stamp on this team and we're only rarely
seeing that. In terms of the selections now, you know
(21:45):
in this Test and a couple of those were injury enforced.
For me, it's been very much a continuity from last
year's World Cup team, almost picking the same team that
am Foster did to a degree. So for me, in
the face of adversity and the face of back to
back defeats to the world champion, in the face of
mounting pressure and scrutiny, now he needs to be brave
(22:07):
and bold and promote that youth around some experience, but
really put a stamp on this team because I think
that's what we've we've been waiting to see.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Indeed, yes, it's got to be interesting to see how
they look for Australia get coming up in a couple
of weeks time in both Sydney and in Wellington the
sact click break here and Rugby Direct come back with
more after this.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Every try do try a sixty sec every tackle to tackle, tackle,
get up again till.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
You before After it's Rugby Direct, Bladies Talk.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We're back with Rugby Directs powered by Access Solutions and
Liam let's get into the final four and let's just start.
We got away from your Blacks from a moment or two,
but what on earth happened? And then Australia Argentina gain
looking at it a halftime, Australia leaving twenty points to
seventeen and then just blowing off the park in the
(23:08):
second spell conceiving fifty points to seven.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
This is a big win for Argentina.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And know the conditions were hot, but Australia having led
twenty to three after half an hour shouldn't be losing
a match in the manner that they.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Did, then, no they shouldn't. It was very much.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
You know, you think it's tough being an All Blacks
fan drumbing a Wallabies fan. It's I have to ask
Morton how he's getting on. Look very much a foal storm,
wasn't it? The last gasp win in Laplace last week
for the Wallabies. I think they yet conceded something like
forty seven points. I think they let at one stage
(23:49):
twenty points to three. So a massive meltdown in Argentina
and very much shredding you know, all the confidence that
they built the week before. So I guess it just
underlines the task in front of Joe Schmidt and expectations,
reinforces expectations for the All Blacks to retain the bleederslow,
(24:09):
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
It does, and it's going to be a tricky task
for them to come back home and figured that out
in a couple of weeks time in Sydney and in Wellington.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
It's yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
There's a lot to work on for the Wallabies, that
is for certain at this point, and doesn't appear like
there's too much light at the end of the tunnel
you have to say. And I've seen people saying it's
just time to open the borders and select players from
a board, which probably leads us into a pretty good
second topic, Limb that are going to throw out you.
(24:42):
Given the All Black performances in the last couple of weeks,
is the time to change New Zealand rightbe's eligibility laws?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
No, No, I don't think it is. I think for
me there's a bit of context to be ahead here.
And I would put this question to you, Elliott, how
many overseas players would you actually select for the All
Blacks right now?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well, richi In will be one, Yeah, Shannon Brazzel would
be another, leicestifying and Nukhu would be three. And then
I think you look at you know, whether they retire
internationally or not. You know, Brady Retallic if he's still
charging around in Japan and wanted to play test Rake,
(25:27):
but I think he'd be a prospect that you could
look at as well.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
I mean, Aaron Smith, you could look at him.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean, in some ways, those players going abroad is
essentially a retirement for them, not so much Monger in
fighting a Nuku necessarily in Frazell but some of those
players they're basically retiring by going abroad and probably wouldn't
be eligible for the All Blacks. Again, I think there's
five or six that you can potentially put into twenty three.
You know, if you're able to bring say a Retallic
off the bench and Aaron Smith off the bench, will
(26:00):
make things like that possible, lestifying and Nookie maybe off
the bench, you know, it enhances the twenty three. I
would be in favor of a hard cap, whether it's
seventy tests or something like that. And I don't know
that it would actually make Richie Monger eligible, but I
think that's something that they do need to look at.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
And I think that day is approaching pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I think for the spring Boxley it's actually been the
reason why they are as good as they are. It
was long seen as a detriment bringing players in from
right around the globe, but such as their team culture
that Russia Rasmus is built, that it doesn't seem to matter.
Have come again from all points of the globe, playing
all sorts of different competitions Japan, France, England, et cetera,
(26:43):
that they.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
All come together.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So I think the day is coming faster than perhaps
has been anticipated.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Look, I think there's always a discussion to be had
around flexibility and caps, but there's counterpoints for everything, is it?
So you bring a Brodie Retallic back and that potentially
compromises to proudvised development and game time. So at what
point are we looking ahead, are for the future, and
what point are we living in the now? I think
(27:11):
the owners has to be on Scott Robertson to develop
the next generation of players and bring them through, and
maybe some of them aren't ready yet, but they will
benefit from these experiences. So I think I'd give you
Rich and Wonger, Shannon Frazelle at a pinch, Lester Fine,
and Nuku. Yes, it would be nice to have Aaron Smith,
but then Cortiers Latimer is not developing, he's not getting
(27:33):
the game time and then that experience. So I'm in
favor of keeping things how they are for now. But
I agree it should be an open debate. But it's
not the quick, fixed solution that some people painted out
to be either.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
I mean number three in the final four more confirmation.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I don't know if you can have more confirmation, but
it's continuing to build. Put it that way around. These
tours from twenty twenty six look a great idea. It's
going to be great for rugby. Just being here the
last couple of weeks and getting a sense of it.
If come back in a couple of years time for
a full with tour matches is going to be pretty
(28:11):
pretty special. So we knew this was happening. It's not
been officially confirmed yet, but all signs points it to yes,
and my understanding is that we could even have an
announcement perhaps by the time the all Black sleeve this
year's end of year tour.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, a very real bucket list item. I think it's
two months, eight weeks. What a tour to be a
part of. If you've never been to South Africa before.
It's an amazing country, beautiful landscapes, great people, food, wine,
the works, and then the rugby is the absolute cherry.
(28:46):
On top three tests, multiple games against provincial teams, it
will just be an amazing occasion. So the trade off,
of course is what's going to happen around the Rugby Championship,
which I think is still a bit of a discussion about,
and it does seem like all signs point to a
bit of a compromise with Australia around the ANZACT Test, which.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Clearly Australia value the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
That's their biggest commodity in terms of revenue, in terms
of their their home tests. So uzel and Rugby is
going to have to throw them a bone and it
looks like it will be that probably for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yes indeed, although yeah, I'm not entirely convinced it's going
to happen. I kind of felt to me seeing that
story in the press, it felt like Australia Rugby, Australia
is trying to get some headlines and not wanting to
be left behind. I think that's a little bit of
water to go on the bridge is yet till that
gets signed off.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I mean it would disrupt Super Rugby.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They've been told on this podcast around various things around
Super Rugby and disrupting that and taking the best players
out and ANZAC test would do that. So I think
tread pretty carefully would be my message around that and
whether it's actually the right thing for both the Bleedersloe Carpitals,
Super Rugby taking those players out of Super Rugby for
a week or two and playing that Anzact Test and
(30:08):
Perth surrounding it obviously with the super rounders as part
of the reporting as well, So I'm not sold on
the idea necessarily. I can see why Stratie wants to
do it, and it day's pretty crowded over there, as
it is in certain markets around the NRAL and AFL.
So mark me down as unconvinced on that ANZAC Day
(30:29):
Test match possibility.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
And topic number four Lamb.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
The Shield era ends for Hawks Bay and a new
one begins for Tasmin Muckel for the first time. That
was a cracking match. It was listening to it on
the radio commentary on gold Sport. It was a game
of twists and turns a Tasman League comfortably at halftime
Hawks back flod their way back in and got their
noses back in front to look like that hold the
shield and then a fifty minute of penalty to win it.
(30:54):
And they couldn't do it in party time in Nelson
and Marlborough.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Indeed, our colleague Clay Wilson has been partying for days.
I don't think he actually has, but he's a proud
Marble boy. And they won the Shield many moons ago
and he's actually from Blenham. I should get that right.
But yeah, like a massive occasion for Tasman. They had
it at Trafelga Park today and the Magpies have had
(31:21):
a great shield run. Just a word on the match itself.
A bit of a bizarre atmosphere. The DJ was playing
music throughout the game. It looked like a real party
atmosphere in the stands, so that was a bit bizarre.
But yeah, crazy crazy match. Ebbs and Flows. Campbell Potterpa
comes off the bench to kick a fifty odd meter
(31:44):
on full time to spark the celebrations for the Marco
and it was a bit of a weekend like that
for the NPC. Elliott Auckland got their first one and
there was some classic ship house sorry at the end
with one of the Auckland players wetting the ball. Bryn
Hall is a North Harbor scrum wet the ball with
a drink bottle. Bryn Hall's unhappy, he goes off to
(32:04):
change the ball, gets penalized for time wasting free kick
and Aukland from the free kick score the match winning try.
So don't let anyone tell you that being Neglie doesn't
pay off.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
The Battle of the bridge always delivers.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Great to say that the word for Canterbury as well,
bouncing back from the horror defeat to Wellington.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
So the Red and Blacks come back again, don't you
worry about that?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Well, let's just say I know you've had a great
tool bit of tough tour results wise, and we'll really
lift the spirits with that Wellington jersey presentation that's waiting
for you when you come home.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, I might have to avoid coming into the office,
that might be wise, I think, Liam, Thank you as always.
Next how we record is going to be in Sydney
for the build up to the Bladerslope very much looking forward.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
To that well, great trip, good to get over to
their mates across the ditch and hopefully from an all
back to perspective, a better result over there.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Indeed, thanks to access solutions elevating you and your business
to a higher level, I think to Lace and Bars English,
we will at you next week from Sudnay on right be.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Direct for more from News Talk st B.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to a podcast from news Talks at B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Inside the Game from every angle, It's Rugby Direct with
Elliott Smith, powered by news Talks at B.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome into RPY Direct, power by Excess Solutions, salivating you
and your business to a higher level. Back with you
from across Capetown and indeed New Zealand. After the All
Blacks so went down eighteen points to twelve to South
Africa in the second game of this two of the
fourth game with the Rugby Championship, it's a loss that
(00:46):
consigns the All Blacks the three defeats in their last
four full straight defeats of South Africa. The Freedom Cup
goes back to South Africa for the first time since
two thousand and nine. All sorts of things to unpack
once again. Liam, Greetings from Cape Town and look at
another loss for the All Blacks in similar risk condition,
(01:06):
you know, circumstances to the last.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
That's all another week, another deflating defeats, isn't it And
as you say, very similar circumstances and the trophy cabinet.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
You meant to rattle off some stats there for some seventy.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Five years that fullbacks have lost four times in a
row to South Africa and Raises Tenya is looking you know, teetering,
isn't it. He was came riding a wave of goodwill
and public support and he will certainly be feeling the
heat now on the trophy cabinet looking very bad. There's
(01:43):
going to be no Rugby Championship, no freedom cut, so
only the Blairs low left.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Indeed it is and cheaper is We'll get to the
Australia Argent send to result of it later on, but yeah,
I mean, surely that can't go this year. But anyway,
let's focus on the spring Box game first and foremost,
and for Megleam, this was a tale of just not
taking opportunities. I think the All Blacks had plenty of them,
plenty of opportunities or around the spring Box red zone
(02:11):
they could have capitalized on. They weren't good enough to
take those opportunities. They missed the penalty that would have
got in front. So ultimately, you know, similar to last week,
they were good enough to win that Test match but didn't.
It's not though I were blowing off the park. There
theres thereabouts but it was the critical moments that they're
just not nailing at the moment.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Well that's there's once again, the All Blacks were dominant
in the first half and I think one of the
major concerns coming into this two tests series was how
the All Blacks would compete physically, because the forward pack
had struggled against England at home. Didn't really you know,
might have got parody at most. They were beaten at
(02:56):
the breakdown and the loss to the Pumas, and Wellington
obviously responded the following week, but going up against the
world champions on their on their home court, very physical
prow West. As we know, the spring box and the
All Blacks forward pack has been a revelation, a real
success on this tour. They fronted physically, they competed well,
they laid a platform and it's actually been the back line,
(03:18):
the decision making and the final quarters. The final quarter
collapses again. This is a fourth Test in succession where
the All Blacks have failed to score a point in
the final quarter.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
You mentioned the McKenzie kick, he missed three.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I've got question marks about why Jordi Barrett wasn't taking
the long kicks and then Obviously the All Blacks did
well to build pressure. There was a Scott Barrett drop
ball just completely slipped through his hands. There was a
line out era from Ardie Severe and then the McKenzie
missed penalty from thirty meters out bang in fronts. You know,
(03:53):
those are the kicks that you have to take. And
then the box come home late through Malcolm Marx. So
is it as much a mental failing for the All Blacks?
Are they wilting under the pressure more so than anything
else here?
Speaker 5 (04:09):
It's quite possibly it.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And you look back, I mean, I think that's the
early two thousands where they just didn't quite have it
mentally over a very very good Wallaby side and they
went able to nail those key moments, and you think
years straight they're lost on Toto Kefu.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Try and Matt Book penalty.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
They seem to lose right at the very end in
those key matches and at that point it was sort
of they didn't have a mental fortitude to close out
those test matches. And I think that is where they're
at at the moment. They just don't quite have that
killer instinct that great All Blacks teams have. And indeed
this great Spring Box team does have it at the moment.
They you know, can go ten rounds a few maybe
(04:52):
be almost on the canvas, but they rise up and
they deliver the knockout blue when it really matters, and
that's what great rugby teams do. And I agree with
Scott robertson the fact that he says they're not far away,
but test rugby is a game of inches, and you're
not far away can feel like a million miles away.
And what we've seen over the last couple of weeks
(05:14):
is the All Blacks could be leaving South Africa, you know,
in theory, with two wins and no defeats. As it happens,
they're zero to two from the tour, and Rugby Championships
gone and the Freedom Cup has gone. So it's a
game of fine margins. And I think the thing for
the All Blacks is now is they have to get
those fine margins right. They have to get their mental
side of the game switched on again, and they have
(05:37):
to learn how to close out test matches. Something's not
right in those last twenty minutes of test matches. They
changed the bench around this week, bench didn't really have
too much of an impact this time of round so
and Sandarry didn't come on from the bench. So whether
that's the answer, whether it's it's you know, the bench
(05:57):
or whatever it is, there was changes made and it's
the same story as the previous week.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I want to touch on the bench there because for me,
it was very bizarre use of the bench. The All
Blacks props, I think both of them, certainly Tyrrel Lomax
because he got the late yellow card, paid seventy plus minutes.
You know, when's the last time you saw an All
Blacks prop go that deep into the game. I think
Fletchereneul might have played five or ten minutes. As you say,
(06:24):
Sam Darry didn't even come on off between a fussy
you know, barely used as well. So you know, the
All Blacks did reshape the bench and with Bodenbarro and TJ.
Perternaro there but some very bizarre substitutions or lack of
and that again goes back to the point that we
made last week about the lack of trust in the
(06:45):
bench and when you're coming up against the bomb squad
and we all know how vaunted they are, that was
bizarre for me. You know, the All Blacks props to
Mighty Williams and Tyrrel Lomax did very well throughout that test,
but I think there was an element of fatigue in
the Box winning some late scrum penalties and Tyrrel Lomax
(07:07):
given away that late yellow cards. I don't think there's
any need for the All Blacks props to be playing
seventy plus minutes.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I think they've got too able replacements in the form
of Offer and Fletcher that can come on. I thought
that was an interesting one. We haven't heard further about
a stuff when Cody Taylor I thought was the best
player in the park for the All Blacks in that game,
and he played all the game bar that time it
was off for an Hia and I did see a
suffer one more getting some treatment later in that periods
(07:37):
on the pitch, so maybe he wasn't fit to return.
But regardless, I mean, Cody Taylor was in ridiculous form
in that game yesterday, so I can.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Understand why they didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I guess we should pay respect to South Africa as well,
because I think this is a very very good spring
Box team and probably not getting the plaudits they deserve
in New Zealand. I mean, this is a team that
won a world championship last year and has just got
even better the year following. Reminds me a little bit,
to be honestly, in of twenty sixteen and the All
Blacks won the previous year. They had some retirements but
(08:08):
actually kicked on and performed even better in twenty sixteen.
So this is a very very good box team deserving
of their rugby championship win. That'll be rubber stamped, you
would think at some point in the next couple of
weeks once they get some points against Argentina. But this
is a box team that is imperious at the moment
and is running world rugby and leading the charge.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Yeah, one hundred percent earlier.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I think there's a case to be made that this
is one of, if not the greatest spring box eras
and teams of all time. And there has been some
great South African teams down the years when you go
back in time, but their list of achievements, the depth
that they've built, you know, you can forget about how
(08:55):
many changes they made between Test one and two against
All Blacks here. They did the same when they were
in Australia, vastly different starting teams. They brought about Hondro
Pollard and Willie LaRue. I think it was five or
seven starting changes from Alice Park to Cape Town and
usually that would be disruptive. But their ability to know
(09:17):
their game, their depth of character and in a belief
they have been twice overturn leads against the All Blacks
and never really looked rattled. Obviously came over the top
and in the back end of those last quarters. So
you're right, we do need to pay tribute to this
box team. But we did see Ireland go out there
(09:39):
in July and respond from a first Test loss to
win their second test. So I think, you know, there's
a question mark around this All Black team, and I
think this is another reality check about just where New
Zealand rugby at the elite level is at. Maybe they
are I think world number three maybe currently, but maybe
(10:02):
there's even question marks about that because right now you
have to say Islands and South Africa are ahead of them.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Maybe France as well.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
England came down and there was a ding dong battle
in July here wasn't there, So there's a bit of
ground for this All Black team to make up and
just on you mentioned Cody Taylor there. You know, I
don't want to be too critical, so we'll have some
positives in here, you know, keep keep the mood up somewhat.
But Cody Taylor toop by coming of age tour. For him,
(10:32):
he was absolutely outstanding. Again, I thought Sam Kane was
good to Mighty Williams and Wallace a TC in his
first start. I think he missed a couple of tackles,
but in the unfamiliar role of blindside, I thought he
really stood up, physically, carried well, never looked overawed. So
he's got to be a long term prospect that he
(10:54):
has to be in that's the composition of that loose
Ford trio going forward.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
Yeah, I think he was excellent.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Obviously the miss tackles aside, and you can kind of
forgive that to an extent given the.
Speaker 5 (11:06):
First test start and everything like that.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Obviously it's a pressure burner environment, but I thought he
was press cooker environment suny. But I thought he was
absolutely superb in that start and he took his opportunities
and black Head are ruled out with a minor handstring injury.
Another issue for Ethan alongside his other ones he's had
throughout the course of his career. But SOA Titi stood
up and I suppose leading into that those players you
(11:29):
mentioned they are perhapsical, with the exception of Taylor and Kin,
a lot of them are young. And is this maybe
where the all Blacks now need to go? I mean,
they won't say it outright, we can sort of speculate
on it, but you know, should they I mean the
kind of halfway house for a rebuild at the moment?
Is it time to go full not baby blacks necessarily,
(11:50):
but give some of these younger players a shot. And
because clearly they're taking their chances at the moment, some
of those younger players they're putting in and look to
the future a little bit.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
It is it is one hundred percent time for that
to happen early.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
I think it's been a really conservative selection ste for
Scott Robinson and you can understand that to a degree,
but there hasn't been enough evolution. He's you know, when
you look at the selections of TJ. Petinara and Sam
Kine to a lesser extent, he has picked for the
now and the need to win test matches now or
(12:26):
what he believes is necessary in this moment. But you're right,
the youth is what's actually performing for this All Black team.
Wallace a tit was another example. Peter Luckeye should be
in the squad for me, the really missing cam royguards.
He'll be back for the Northern Tour. But I also
think Billy Procter has to get a crack at center.
(12:47):
I think Riekowane could move out to the wing because
we need to talk about this All Black back three.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
They were very, very.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Underwhelming when they exposed under the high ball. Will Jordan
looks really short of a gallop after missing the whole
Super Rugby season. He was quite on the wing last week,
looked very uncomfortable at times at fallback. But just the
makeup of that back three for the All Blacks, they
were peepered with the high ball. They got exposed there.
It would be very very surprised if we saw that
(13:14):
back three start again.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
Yeah, I don't think we'll see that in Sydney or Wellington.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Look at severy Reese deserved yellow card for that takeout
in the year. You can see maybe what he's trying
to do, but he completely misjudged it. March Talia is
not the player he was certainly in All Blacks Jersey
a couple of years ago. Even last year just seems
to have not quite got where he needs to be
(13:40):
this season, just doesn't seem to have that instinct with
born hand, hasn't been searching for work, made a couple
of errors in Cape Town here, so and then Will Jordan,
You're right, I think this looks out of sorts a
little bit at the moment. And you know hasn't played
a lot of rugby this season. You just wondered whether
some more rugby under his belt he can begin to improve.
(14:03):
It's it's only read the test arenderm where he can
get it. But maybe he goes and help out Tasma
with a shield challenge your shield defense next weekend against Wellington.
I don't know, but I think game times and is
the thing that Will Jordan needs to be a big
ass room to go halfway around the world and do that.
But he does look just not the player we know
he is, and I'm sure he'll get back to there
(14:23):
pretty quickly. But I think you two tests he's had
at full back starting now, I think the jury is
firmly out over whether that is the role that he
is destined for in this all blacks environment. I agree
about Billy Proctor. I think they need something in midfields.
I thought Antonine and Brown performed well when he came
off the bench, but I think someone like a Billy
(14:47):
prop dick and add a real edge to the all
Blacks and midfield. We saw he had a great game
against the Figians and San Diego hasn't been cited since.
I think putting him out against the Wallabies would be
a big boost for this it's all blacks back line.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Liam.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The Prenier question is obviously around the All Blacks and
not having South Africans Scythes and Super been missing that physicality.
Having seen this tour here, seeing the twenty twenty two tour,
obviously the World Cup final last year, where are you
at her on this whole debate?
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Look, I think it's it is an issue in terms
of preparation for the elite arena Test arena that It's
clear Australian Super rugby teams are several rungs down. The
lack of competitiveness.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
There has been.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A deep seated frustration, but I think South Africa's exit
has been rewritten to a degree. Yes, it came about
because of COVID and New Zealand Rugby. Maybe I think
they forced the issue, but I think it would have
happened anyway. South Africa had a desire to hear north
because of the time zone, and I think that would
(15:59):
have always happened. And I think the physicality aspect is
somewhat overblown. I think if you look across New Zealand rugby,
there are the athletes there and I think when we
look at this tour, physicality hasn't been an issue. It's
been the last quarters. It's been the decision making, the
ill discipline, you know, the lack of accuracy that the
(16:21):
final quarter meltdowns. That's been the issue. So yes, in
an ideal world, New Zealand would have greater exposure to
South Africa. I think they're going to get that in
the coming years with more touring and the like. But
it's never going to change now. We can't go back
in time. They're not coming back to Super Ragby. So
it's about what can you do now.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It is and I think not I mean, I agree
with you on most those points there. I think around
South Africa it's been rewritten a significant amount. And this
is a very very good spring Box team we're watching
at the moment, and the All Blacks team are not
quite there, but it's not like their poles apart. I
think you look at Australia or in Argentina that result
(17:07):
this morning, look at South Africa in the way they
played Australia earlier on in this rugby Championship, that's a
bigger gap between those two. So while there are issues,
I'm sure it plays a little bit of a factor
the All blacksmissing South African experience super level, but I
don't think it's the be all and endul I think
the big issue for the All Blacks and you mentioned
(17:27):
some players there, but I think it's producing those big
body types that were actually struggling with at the moment
in New Zealand rugby, those big imposing body types, and
we just simply don't have the likes of body for
you that the South Africans are able to call on
and that are getting rugby game time. It's while we
people are looking at you know, Fabian Holland, who is
(17:49):
still more than a year away from being eligible to
play for the All Blacks, that New Zealanders just aren't
those big body types wh aren't getting them playing on
the rugby fields at the moment. I think that's the
big issue for New Zealand rugby. A lot of playing basketball,
a lot aren't playing sport at all. So if you
get more of those sort of body types on the
rugby fields, that's going to try into better games of
(18:10):
the domestic level, better games of the Super rugpy level.
Bigger players, you're playing those players more often. I think
that's the that's the real telling issue for New Zealand
rugby is finding these bigger bodies and getting them into
the mixes. Why they've targeted Josh Lord. You know, he's
barely played NPC was Super Rugby for the last three
or four years through injuries and various things. But he's
a kind of frame that they believe can be converted
(18:32):
into a test footballer.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
And so I think that's the ultimate one for the
All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
No doubt missing some of that phasicalty's key, but towards
the end of Super Rugby, those South African teams weren't
much chop anyway.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I think some of those records are you know, looked
at through roast and glasses. Some of the South African
teams were canon fighter to a certain degree. Wentn't they
blown out of the water when you look at the
cheatahs and the likes. So it wasn't like they were
coming down to New Zealand and knocking over teams here
on a regular basis. So yeah, one one question I
(19:07):
want to put to you we haven't touched on really
an overarching view of Scott Robinson's tenure to day So
four and three as it stands. You mentioned his record
before in terms of lost, what is it three of
the last four we've seen, you know, Leo McDonald exit abruptly.
What's his demeanor been like in South Africa in terms
(19:29):
of following these defeats.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
How do you think he's handling the pressure?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Because it always was going to be a massive step
step up from Super rugby to the Test scene. So
what's he been like from your perspective, how do you
think he's handling the pressure cooker of Test rugby?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well, I think he's frustrated because he can see it
almost coming together and it's not quite there and he
can see, you know, they scored one or two of
those opportunities or purity goal goes over, then they win
the Test match yesterday, or they put themselves in at
least in a very very good position to win the
Test match. So there's a little bit of frustration that
(20:05):
they those opportunities aren't being converted. I think the reality
of Tests rugby is certainly there now for Scott Robinson
is that these are the fine margins that Test rugby
is decided upon, and you have to back up week
after week. You have to wipe the slate clean. You're
not about accumulating competition points. You're not, you know, playing
(20:27):
the Blues one week and the Rebels the next. You're
playing you know, the Suffragans twice in a row, and
they're going to come at you and come at you
for the full eighty minutes. So I mean, I think
there's definitely a sense of belief from Scott Robinson, but
also a sense of frustration as well that it's not
coming together, maybe as quickly as he would have liked.
I interviewed in the Sky yesterday and he pointed out
(20:48):
that the South Africans were seven years into their journey
and the All Blacks are, you know, seven matches, so
there is a disparity there. But as an All Blacks
coach and as an All Blacks team, Unfortunately, you don't
get time to rebuild necessarily. There's an expectation that you
win and win every Test match, and at the moment
(21:08):
you pointed out the record four and three, with some
big Test matches to come later on in this season,
we've got to learn quickly about what test rugby is
about and for learn to execute those key moments.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, for me, it's been underwhelming to date because I
expected more. I expected him to come in with a
bit of a blank page and usher and not necessarily
an overnight revolution that's unrealistic. But I expected him to
put his stamp on this team and we're only rarely
seeing that. In terms of the selections now, you know
(21:45):
in this Test and a couple of those were injury enforced.
For me, it's been very much a continuity from last
year's World Cup team, almost picking the same team that
am Foster did to a degree. So for me, in
the face of adversity and the face of back to
back defeats to the world champion, in the face of
mounting pressure and scrutiny, now he needs to be brave
(22:07):
and bold and promote that youth around some experience, but
really put a stamp on this team because I think
that's what we've we've been waiting to see.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Indeed, yes, it's got to be interesting to see how
they look for Australia get coming up in a couple
of weeks time in both Sydney and in Wellington the
sact click break here and Rugby Direct come back with
more after this.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Every try do try a sixty sec every tackle to tackle, tackle,
get up again till.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
You before After it's Rugby Direct, Bladies Talk.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We're back with Rugby Directs powered by Access Solutions and
Liam let's get into the final four and let's just start.
We got away from your Blacks from a moment or two,
but what on earth happened? And then Australia Argentina gain
looking at it a halftime, Australia leaving twenty points to
seventeen and then just blowing off the park in the
(23:08):
second spell conceiving fifty points to seven.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
This is a big win for Argentina.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And know the conditions were hot, but Australia having led
twenty to three after half an hour shouldn't be losing
a match in the manner that they.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Did, then, no they shouldn't. It was very much.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
You know, you think it's tough being an All Blacks
fan drumbing a Wallabies fan. It's I have to ask
Morton how he's getting on. Look very much a foal storm,
wasn't it? The last gasp win in Laplace last week
for the Wallabies. I think they yet conceded something like
forty seven points. I think they let at one stage
(23:49):
twenty points to three. So a massive meltdown in Argentina
and very much shredding you know, all the confidence that
they built the week before. So I guess it just
underlines the task in front of Joe Schmidt and expectations,
reinforces expectations for the All Blacks to retain the bleederslow,
(24:09):
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
It does, and it's going to be a tricky task
for them to come back home and figured that out
in a couple of weeks time in Sydney and in Wellington.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
It's yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
There's a lot to work on for the Wallabies, that
is for certain at this point, and doesn't appear like
there's too much light at the end of the tunnel
you have to say. And I've seen people saying it's
just time to open the borders and select players from
a board, which probably leads us into a pretty good
second topic, Limb that are going to throw out you.
(24:42):
Given the All Black performances in the last couple of weeks,
is the time to change New Zealand rightbe's eligibility laws?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
No, No, I don't think it is. I think for
me there's a bit of context to be ahead here.
And I would put this question to you, Elliott, how
many overseas players would you actually select for the All
Blacks right now?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well, richi In will be one, Yeah, Shannon Brazzel would
be another, leicestifying and Nukhu would be three. And then
I think you look at you know, whether they retire
internationally or not. You know, Brady Retallic if he's still
charging around in Japan and wanted to play test Rake,
(25:27):
but I think he'd be a prospect that you could
look at as well.
Speaker 5 (25:34):
I mean, Aaron Smith, you could look at him.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
I mean, in some ways, those players going abroad is
essentially a retirement for them, not so much Monger in
fighting a Nuku necessarily in Frazell but some of those
players they're basically retiring by going abroad and probably wouldn't
be eligible for the All Blacks. Again, I think there's
five or six that you can potentially put into twenty three.
You know, if you're able to bring say a Retallic
off the bench and Aaron Smith off the bench, will
(26:00):
make things like that possible, lestifying and Nookie maybe off
the bench, you know, it enhances the twenty three. I
would be in favor of a hard cap, whether it's
seventy tests or something like that. And I don't know
that it would actually make Richie Monger eligible, but I
think that's something that they do need to look at.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
And I think that day is approaching pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I think for the spring Boxley it's actually been the
reason why they are as good as they are. It
was long seen as a detriment bringing players in from
right around the globe, but such as their team culture
that Russia Rasmus is built, that it doesn't seem to matter.
Have come again from all points of the globe, playing
all sorts of different competitions Japan, France, England, et cetera,
(26:43):
that they.
Speaker 5 (26:44):
All come together.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
So I think the day is coming faster than perhaps
has been anticipated.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Look, I think there's always a discussion to be had
around flexibility and caps, but there's counterpoints for everything, is it?
So you bring a Brodie Retallic back and that potentially
compromises to proudvised development and game time. So at what
point are we looking ahead, are for the future, and
what point are we living in the now? I think
(27:11):
the owners has to be on Scott Robertson to develop
the next generation of players and bring them through, and
maybe some of them aren't ready yet, but they will
benefit from these experiences. So I think I'd give you
Rich and Wonger, Shannon Frazelle at a pinch, Lester Fine,
and Nuku. Yes, it would be nice to have Aaron Smith,
but then Cortiers Latimer is not developing, he's not getting
(27:33):
the game time and then that experience. So I'm in
favor of keeping things how they are for now. But
I agree it should be an open debate. But it's
not the quick, fixed solution that some people painted out
to be either.
Speaker 5 (27:46):
I mean number three in the final four more confirmation.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I don't know if you can have more confirmation, but
it's continuing to build. Put it that way around. These
tours from twenty twenty six look a great idea. It's
going to be great for rugby. Just being here the
last couple of weeks and getting a sense of it.
If come back in a couple of years time for
a full with tour matches is going to be pretty
(28:11):
pretty special. So we knew this was happening. It's not
been officially confirmed yet, but all signs points it to yes,
and my understanding is that we could even have an
announcement perhaps by the time the all Black sleeve this
year's end of year tour.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yeah, a very real bucket list item. I think it's
two months, eight weeks. What a tour to be a
part of. If you've never been to South Africa before.
It's an amazing country, beautiful landscapes, great people, food, wine,
the works, and then the rugby is the absolute cherry.
(28:46):
On top three tests, multiple games against provincial teams, it
will just be an amazing occasion. So the trade off,
of course is what's going to happen around the Rugby Championship,
which I think is still a bit of a discussion about,
and it does seem like all signs point to a
bit of a compromise with Australia around the ANZACT Test, which.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Clearly Australia value the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
That's their biggest commodity in terms of revenue, in terms
of their their home tests. So uzel and Rugby is
going to have to throw them a bone and it
looks like it will be that probably for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yes indeed, although yeah, I'm not entirely convinced it's going
to happen. I kind of felt to me seeing that
story in the press, it felt like Australia Rugby, Australia
is trying to get some headlines and not wanting to
be left behind. I think that's a little bit of
water to go on the bridge is yet till that
gets signed off.
Speaker 5 (29:44):
I mean it would disrupt Super Rugby.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
They've been told on this podcast around various things around
Super Rugby and disrupting that and taking the best players
out and ANZAC test would do that. So I think
tread pretty carefully would be my message around that and
whether it's actually the right thing for both the Bleedersloe Carpitals,
Super Rugby taking those players out of Super Rugby for
a week or two and playing that Anzact Test and
(30:08):
Perth surrounding it obviously with the super rounders as part
of the reporting as well, So I'm not sold on
the idea necessarily. I can see why Stratie wants to
do it, and it day's pretty crowded over there, as
it is in certain markets around the NRAL and AFL.
So mark me down as unconvinced on that ANZAC Day
(30:29):
Test match possibility.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
And topic number four Lamb.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
The Shield era ends for Hawks Bay and a new
one begins for Tasmin Muckel for the first time. That
was a cracking match. It was listening to it on
the radio commentary on gold Sport. It was a game
of twists and turns a Tasman League comfortably at halftime
Hawks back flod their way back in and got their
noses back in front to look like that hold the
shield and then a fifty minute of penalty to win it.
(30:54):
And they couldn't do it in party time in Nelson
and Marlborough.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Indeed, our colleague Clay Wilson has been partying for days.
I don't think he actually has, but he's a proud
Marble boy. And they won the Shield many moons ago
and he's actually from Blenham. I should get that right.
But yeah, like a massive occasion for Tasman. They had
it at Trafelga Park today and the Magpies have had
(31:21):
a great shield run. Just a word on the match itself.
A bit of a bizarre atmosphere. The DJ was playing
music throughout the game. It looked like a real party
atmosphere in the stands, so that was a bit bizarre.
But yeah, crazy crazy match. Ebbs and Flows. Campbell Potterpa
comes off the bench to kick a fifty odd meter
(31:44):
on full time to spark the celebrations for the Marco
and it was a bit of a weekend like that
for the NPC. Elliott Auckland got their first one and
there was some classic ship house sorry at the end
with one of the Auckland players wetting the ball. Bryn
Hall is a North Harbor scrum wet the ball with
a drink bottle. Bryn Hall's unhappy, he goes off to
(32:04):
change the ball, gets penalized for time wasting free kick
and Aukland from the free kick score the match winning try.
So don't let anyone tell you that being Neglie doesn't
pay off.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
The Battle of the bridge always delivers.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Great to say that the word for Canterbury as well,
bouncing back from the horror defeat to Wellington.
Speaker 5 (32:24):
So the Red and Blacks come back again, don't you
worry about that?
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Well, let's just say I know you've had a great
tool bit of tough tour results wise, and we'll really
lift the spirits with that Wellington jersey presentation that's waiting
for you when you come home.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, I might have to avoid coming into the office,
that might be wise, I think, Liam, Thank you as always.
Next how we record is going to be in Sydney
for the build up to the Bladerslope very much looking forward.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
To that well, great trip, good to get over to
their mates across the ditch and hopefully from an all
back to perspective, a better result over there.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Indeed, thanks to access solutions elevating you and your business
to a higher level, I think to Lace and Bars English,
we will at you next week from Sudnay on right be.
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Direct for more from News Talk st B.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!