September 17, 2024 • 40 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier are in Sydney and celebrate touching down by jumping straight into a podcast.
They discuss the Bledisloe Cup test this weekend between the Wallabies and All Blacks and whether the Australians have a show, and what the All Blacks strategy is around blooding new talent.
Also on the podcast, a look back at the Black Ferns v England, Super Rugby format changes and the Ranfurly Shield stays in Tasman.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
Inside the Game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Rugby Direct back
again and lamb. It's good to be back face to
face with you rather than over a zoom connection and
even better to be in Sydney for the Bledersloe Cup
Test this coming Saturdays live on News Talk zib gold
(00:45):
Spoteart Radio and you can read all the excess all
the content on nz hero dot, cot and ZI. But
as always them Apa, chief sports writer and rugby correspondent
for the News here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
As I said, it's good to be in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We've just arrived inside the last hour or so and
thought what better to do than get our headsets on
and start recording a podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Yes, it is great to be back gazing Nancy Elliott Anger,
great to hear you've patched packed the budgy smugglers or
raring to go, and also just looked through the pillow
selection here and I will confirm to our Allison's you've
gone with the latex pillow option and I will leave
you to that later.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, the loc at reception was running me through the
options and there are many and I look forward to
We here for six nights and there are six options.
So between the buckweet, the micro five with the latex,
the goose down for the memory foe and the can
pressed microfiber, we are going to get a good night's sleep.
But we are here for the Test match between the
All Blacks and Australia gap and a big Test match
(01:46):
at that Liam. The All Blacks heading into this one
haven't lost to Australia in a few years, but you
know they're under a little bit of pressure given those
defeats in the Republic and leading to set things up
for you know, the Blooder's Low Cup and retaining that
under their new coach Scott Robinson as.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
A pretty intense back drop, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
The Great Seal Blacks almost a bit of a lose
lose situation coming to face the Wallabies Arabic they are
expected to win and win well retain the bleederslop continue
that twenty one year dominance and if they don't then
the Wolves really potentially start to cave in. The Wallabies
are coming off that massive defeat in Argentina where they
(02:27):
conceded sixty seven points, so you think it'll be quite
tense in that all black environment.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
They need a win. Lost three of the last four.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
They did some things really well in South Africa but
couldn't get over the line. But this is uncharted territory
for Raza, really, isn't it. A perennial winning coach who's
not used to this sort of pressure and scrutiny.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Really no, And look test matches and building a test
campaign there's a lot different to a super rugby and
I'm sure in you that coming in. But if he didn't,
it's been spelled up pretty clearly in the last few
weeks with those losses to Argentina or in South Africa,
that you in a super rugby campaign can afford the
odd loss and you know you've got well used to
(03:11):
have the rebels coming up in a few weeks time,
or you had could manager squad this time. And test
rugbit's all about wins and you're expected to win every
time you're on the park, So it is a big
change for the All Blacks. So I guess you look
at the performances in South Africa and on the basis
of that and look at some of the reaction, there's
a feeling perhaps I think that maybe a glass half
(03:34):
full approach.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
From some quarters, some quarters not so much.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But I think there's probably a feeling that you know,
this All Blacks team is building. They do need to
get wins, of course on the board, but I think
I was surprised to see perhaps not the level of
concern that maybe I expected to see after that South
African tour.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, to a degree, I think there's the overriding emotion.
I would say it's frustration because the All Blacks had
those tests that they had gift opportunities at both Allis
Park and Cake Down to put the World Champions away
on their home patch, and they.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Really blew it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
We've gone into the last quarter failings, but there I
think there were the selections which we can touch on,
but game management, execution, under pressure, discipline, A lot of
it was the All Black's own undoing. When the white
hot heat of playing the World Champions and those sort
of atmospheres came on, they didn't react they didn't handle
(04:33):
that well. There's big questions about the bench the finish
to those matches, so there are some real pressing concerns
for this all Black team. But yeah, there are positives.
The four pack fronted well the scrum. I would expect
them to crush the Wallabies given what we saw in Argentina,
the emergence of some youth that needs to be promoted.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
So it's certainly not all doom and gloom.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You wrote a piece saying it's time to embrace basically
the younger generation of the All Blacks for the New
Zealand Herald and you can read that piece online. Now,
I guess for listeners that maybe haven't read it, who
should go read it, But I guess that you're you're
reasoning behind so your arguments in that piece.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I just think it's very evident in what we've seen
from guys like Wallace the TT and that was a forced.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Change through injury.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
My feeling is Ras has been very conservative in his
selections just to this Tenure seven tests, in the selections
of Sam Kine and TJ ped and Ara in particularly.
You can understand that to a degree, But I just
think it's it's time we're starting a new World Cup cycle.
Wallace to Tt, Billy Proctor, Cortratama. I know Ken Rogard's
(05:44):
going to be coming back. And then in the next
couple of weeks we've seen to Bouvia stand up big
time in South Africa, so tom Ty Williams as well.
So it's the youth that's really starting to put their
hand up and perform from the All Blacks, and I
just think it's time to embrace that and to go
further with it because to this point, I feel like
Rais has been quite reluctant, quite conservative.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
It's been a tough start.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
You know, it's massive changes and coaching and the head
le on McDonald's exit, but I just feel like he
needs a bit a bit more brave and bold, and
that's not easy because you don't get time to find
your feats. You're expected to win every test and now
the pressure is really on. But the overriding feeling for
(06:29):
me is he needs to double down and bring through
this youth.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Not not a Baby Blacks team.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Because that would be reckless, but there's enough experience within
this All Blacks script to bring through the youth, don't
you think.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Well, I think so and you know someone like Billy
Proctor played very well in that Test against Fiji, hasn't
been seen well apart from the ran for the Shield
game yesterday since in All Black Studsey. You know Noah
Hotham is probably going to be the third best option
for the All Blacks when Cam Royguard is fit.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
TJ.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Pier and Are is currently there, but I don't know
if he's going on the interview tour. I don't know
what the situation is there, but perhaps look to the
future and getting someone like him. He hasn't played and
he didn't go and play for Tasman in the Shield
Challenge either, so he hasn't played for a lot. And
it's not about getting players game time, but it is
about developing.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
These players so as they build.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Over the next four years and ultimately that is their
aim of winning the twenty twenty seven World Cup that
they're in a position to do. So I think that's
twenty twelve when you know Steve Hansen blooded what was
a pretty special generation or mini generation I suppose you
call it of players you know, Sam cain Bot and
Barrett Aaron Smith all came in, yeah, all the same
(07:41):
time in that Irish series, and you know it wasn't
you know iron push for them in one Test match
but went great across that series. So it was slightly
different DA having to play England early on and then
two Tests in South Africa and that sort of thing.
But those players stood up and took their chances. I
think we've seen that with the younger players that have
had their opportunities this year, that they've been able to
(08:03):
do that and take their chances and step up in
the Test match environment.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So that in mind.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I guess we look at the match of this week, Lamb,
and which do you see further tweaks to this All
Blacks team. I guess we've got Ethan black add A
potentially coming back, Caleb Clarke, k Patrick Deuey Bloto back
with the side as well. No, Fletcher Newell hasn't traveled
over due to an injury, so there are a few
ways they can spin it this week. But do you
(08:29):
see the possibility of making some more wholesale changes or
bigger tweaks to this All Black team as they prepare
for this game against.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
The Australian in Toney?
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Yeah? I hope so, I really do.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I think both of us have been strong advocates, particularly
around the loose forwards, to give Wallace a TC a
start at number eights, and I would love to see that.
I would love to see them put RDI to seven.
I think the style of play, I expect this test
to be a lot more open, free flowing, expansive to
a degree than what we saw against the spring Box,
(09:03):
and that suits natural ball carriers athletes more so than
a Sam Kaine. There is a rationale for picking Sam
Kaine against the spring Box because it is going to
be tired, physical, it's combative, and he played really well.
But he's not the future of this All Black team.
So let's start finding out what is the future, particularly
around the composition of the loose forwards.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
So I want to see Walla.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Citta a Artie Severe at seven, ethan blackhead it or
potentially Scott Barrett, because we need to talk about Scott Barrett,
because I think he is feeling the weight of expectation
and the demands of being All Black captain because he
hasn't been at his best.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
I know he's been in and out through injury.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
But he did make one crucial error in that game,
you know, So I think there is a lot more
we can get from this All Black team, and start
it does start, it is highlighted for me by the
loose forwards.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, I don't think moving Scott Barrett to blindside is
a long term option for the All Blacks. He's clearly
one of the best, probably the best lock in the country,
so I I think the time that he's played blindside
is probably in the past. For me, I don't see
any benefit to that. To provile, on the other hand,
(10:16):
is an intriguing option there because the All Blacks still
have considered on the blindside option. While as TG I
thought made a good fist of it in Cape Town,
but the position that he isn't ultimately familiar with. Tod
similar isn't ultimately familiar with blindside, but he started the
opening game of the World Cup there last year, has
the body size, the build. I'd be reluctant a little
(10:39):
bit to do it because I think tupervised now becoming
the lock that the All Black selectors in twenty twenty
saw the promise off and selected him pretty much out
of obscurity to put him into that All Blacks max
in twenty twenty, So I'll be reluctant to do so,
So then I go back to, well, what is the
loose forward trio and maybe you go, you know, Wallace
(11:01):
to Titi at six, eas in Black out of seven
and Ardisavra eight. Perhaps that's to make up you go
with you can you know, switch things around a.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Little bit in there.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
But that feels a bit better. I mean, I'd still
like to see someone like Peter Lucky come out of
Wellington and get into that loose Ford trio because then
it's a really powerful six seven eight combination. But for
this test, yeah, I think Ethan Blackhead has played seven
already this year. He's versatile enough to do so. He's
been in some good form. He's probably one of the
(11:33):
all blacks best in the game at Alice Park. Yeah,
so look, I think he's worthy. I know he was
into the last time around and Walls tid he played well,
but I think he's worthy of getting back in that
loose Ford mix.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Peter Luck, I think he has to be in that squat.
He's not there now, but he has to be there
for the end of ye it's always another guy that
is the future. And I agree with you about the
composition of that loose Ford trio.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
I just think I think Ethan Blackhead.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Is best at six and like you say, he was
one of the best at Alice Park, so you'd expect
him to possibly slot back in there Elsewhere. Let's talk
about the best three because they had a horror night
in Cape Town, and I think we said last time
out it'd be very surprising to see severese, Mark t
Leer and Will Jordan's start as a back three combination. Again,
(12:22):
what is the All Blacks best back three if everyone's fit.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Well, I don't think they know, and that is an issue.
But again, this is all about this year is yessue
want to win test matches, but it is about finding
out about some players. And you know, Caleb Clark has
had a tough few seasons. You know it was you know,
the Golden Child in twenty twenty, came in and looked very,
(12:46):
very impressive and looked for a long stay in the eleven,
made probably what was an ill fated decision to go
back to the sevens campaign that sort of put him
a step back, had some injuries as well, and now
look at the form he's rediscovered this year is back
to that form. So I think you go with the
hot hand of Caleb Clark. I put Mark to Leira
on the right wing and I'd have Will Jordan fullback.
(13:08):
I think Marchally is an interesting one. I think he
see he's gone a little bit stagnant in the All Blacks.
Jusey Sevier reach I think has gone backwards. He had
a very good opening test of the year. That's quite
a few tests to go now in Dunedin. So I'd
have ye Clark on the left wing mate til they're
on the right end, Will Jordan at fullback?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
What so you yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I agree, And I'm thinking longer term as well, because
where the All Blacks were exposed against the boxes under
high ball, and if you think about the India Tour,
three massive tests against England, Island, France middle of winter,
it's going to be raining high balls and against the
top tier nations in the world. That's where you're going
(13:50):
to be tested as a bat three. So I agree.
I think Caleb Clark's brilliant in the air we touched
last time on. Will Jordan still finding his feet, hasn't
been in great form on the wing or fullback for
the All Blacks coming back, it's tough going straight into
the Test Arena having not played super maybe lacking confidence
in con tacked after the shoulder injury. But he is
(14:12):
in all likelihood the future for the All Blacks and fullback,
so he needs more time there. And Mark Talia, I
think he's possibly suffering a bit of a lack of
confidence from having to come off the bench, been in
and out of the team.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
This coaching team hasn't put a lot of faith in them.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
His style should suit the Wallabies, great chance to build
up some confidence again. Looking further ahead, I would like
to see a mooning in Naraur given another chance. He's
very good under the high ball. He looks like he's
back and form. He's playing for center for bay Plenty,
very different level to the NPC, several rungs down from
(14:52):
Test rugby, but for me he's a better prospect longer
term than Severe Reese. I think Sevu gets exposed under
the high ball. He's a bit erratic and what he
does quite hard to predict, so it's going to be
interesting to see that long turn. But for this weekend
I agree and that that means Bowden's on the bench.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
A bit of discussion around Rico Yuwanne and his spot
at center, and we've seen him move to the left
wing in recent times in test matches. Still the school
of thought that maybe that's his best position, But for me,
I think Caleb Clark's deserving of that wing spot, especial
left wing. Rico's not gonna player the right. Club's not
playing the right, so Tim's that left wing spot. I
(15:36):
don't think you moved Rico Yuani at this point. I mean,
I'd love to see Billy prop to get a go
at center, but I don't think you move Rico Yuanne
back to the wing at this point because Caleb Clark's
the more compelling option.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
It is an interesting discuss, so it should be a
live discussion because the Cape Town tests, it was very
evident how much more involved and influential Rico was from
the wing than he was at center when he moved
out there. You know, he got the ball in space,
there's so much less for him to think about. But
it was also telling. I think speaking to him, we
(16:10):
had a discussion pod with him maybe the England series,
and he was asked.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
I think you're in this chat as well, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
How do you feel about potentially going back to the wing.
And his response was quite curtain to the point. Look,
I think we put that I thought we put that
discussion to bed. So clearly he's not interested in that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well he's not, but he's not slipping the team. And yep,
he wants to play center, but there's you know, Bada
Bara wants to play ten. Will Jordans wanted to play fullback.
He's finally getting there, but you know, he's not slipping
the team. And if Scott Robinson deems that left wingers
is best option, then that's where I think you should go.
(16:51):
But at this point, Caler Clark I think is the
option on the left wing, and that leaves Ricco Yuanni
in the midfield.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Like to see Rico have a start on the wing
and see how he goes as well. I think that
should be a live discussion and that these are the
tough conversations, tough selection decisions at Scott Robinson has to have.
I want to see Billy Propter starting this weekend, but
I would be surprised given him and Reuben Love and
David Hevilly all went back to play NBC last weekend.
(17:20):
That's not a great sign. Patrick two Polow Two's probably
the one that may come back into the mix. But
there's not a great sign to say that that Billy's
going to be starting this weekend.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
No I suspect And this is you know whether the
All Blacks kit that win or not. But the fair
retainment but is low Cup and maybe in Wellington they
make a few changes. They can't win Wellington anyway, so
you know the exactly you're going to lose anyway because
Wellington's a graveyard. You mentioned Patrick Tweed plot too. He
(17:51):
was the incumbent second rower before he got injured, and
unfortunate timing for the injury. Obviously, came back early from
earlier than anyone expected from the injury, suffered and super
rugby and came back and led the team to.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The Promised Land. But what do you do with Patrick now?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Two point us had a very very good season to
this point and stepping in and starting was calling some
of the line outs at times as well.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So what do you do with Patrick dot.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
He comes off the bench, because what an athletes to
bring off the bench? Size, power, late in the game,
tiring athletes, he could call some res real havoc and
that's an area that the All Blacks need to address.
They tried to do that by putting Boden Barrett and TJ.
Petenara back there didn't really work, so it's still an
area that they need to refine and focus on. So
(18:42):
Patrick two blot will be a big in the other
one is Ethan Degrook comes back. So's a discussion there
is Mighty Williams better starting or is a better dynamic
to bring him off the bench for Ethan the group
and the other player I want to put to you
is Harry Plummer. So I think him and George Bell
(19:04):
are the only ones we haven't seen thus far.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Rubin Love and George Bower if you include him as well.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
So look, Damian McKenzie I think has played well at times,
but his game management has been underwhelming at times as well.
He missed some very crucial kicks in that Cape Town
test that were costly. Do we see Harry Plummer against
the wall of his not necessarily this week or the next.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I think if the All Blacks win in Sydney then
you see him potentially off the bench in Wellington. Maybe
Rubin Love in Wellington as well. Though it was rather underwhelming,
it was one game by Rubin Love's performance and that
she'll challenge George Bell. I think it's a really interesting
question around George Bell because I suffered on Moore still
(19:58):
battling to see at test level the confidence you wanted
out of a line out throw. He came on for
that period for ten minutes in the game in Cape
Town and the All Blacks lineout had a few wobbles.
Then Cody Tawis through at the rest of the game
and maybe there wasn't a wee injury. Nigel to us
offer will But I think George Bell he's going to
(20:18):
be there in twenty twenty seven, you would think so.
I'd like to see a little bit more of him,
but again, don't think it'll be this week in Sydney.
I think it's more likely, you know, you get to Wellington.
The other one is I guess around to Mighty Williams,
your Blacks have been quite comfortable the last couple of seasons,
having Ethan de Groote and Trollo Max their starters and
(20:40):
then the replacements off with thorn If Fuss and Fletcher Newell.
Do you tweak that combination? I mean, you know, to
Mighty Williams coming off the bench and showing is powerful
scrummaging and ball carrying, maybe a real option, but they've
been reluctant at this point to switch to that they're
going after this week because Flincher Newell's not there. So
maybe you look to Pasily or Tossi for a bench
(21:04):
option this week. Having said that, I mean off thing
of us it can cover both side. Maybe to Mighty
Williams goes to the bench and off for covers tight
head this week, but you know, maybe Tossi we get
a chance to see him this week.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Yeah, another guy that we haven't seen yet.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
And I watched him play for Bay Plenty at the
weekend and he is a real prospect. I think from
an elite level. Scrummaging still still a way to go.
I don't think you chuck him out against the box yet.
But as an athlete, he is mobile, he's fit, he's powerful,
he can offload, real big powerful man. So I think
(21:41):
you're I think they go to Maighty on the bench
with offer toing of.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
USU because he's got that versatility.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
But when we talk about these guys, Plumber, Pasilio, Tossi,
you know, George Bell, Peter Luckey, these guys are the
future Billy Proctor, Ruben Love and at some point you've
got to find out about them. Yeah, and the only
way to do that is to expose them. We've seen
Wallace a t step in and yes he missed three tackles,
but he also broke broke six, so that's the upside.
(22:08):
So you've got incumbents and some of them playing well,
but some of them aren't. And that's where these difficult
decisions need to be made. We're halfway into the season
now hasn't gone well, so let's make some hard calls,
find out some answers, give these guys a bit of chance,
and yes it's a balancing act, but I just need
I want to see some brave and bold selections.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, on that all.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Blake's halfway through the season, seven tests down seven to
come give us grade.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Only it's just a pass mark for me, five out
of ten and that's just scraping by four and three.
So you're what is it fifty fifty six percent for
Raza to this point mid point in the year, two
very patchy wins against England's the Bowden cameo won them
(22:58):
the second Test at Eden Park, bad loss to Argentina
at home responded really well and then performed well in
South Africa Blue. It's so I've been underwhelmed to this point,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Five and a half out of ten for me, you're
always a bit more. You will sea get degrees.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Past mark across cross Australia this weekend.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Off the back of that heavy defeat.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Against Argentina In Argentina, do we see a response from
Australia Do they have it in them? What can we
expect from Australia this week?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I don't expect them to be that bad, but you
look through that team and you're still missing some some
rare experience, some proven test experience. There's no Will Skelton,
they've gone away from Kuwaid Cooper. Still some big question
marks at ten some of carev. You know, these guys
(23:57):
that have been there, done that are absent and so
there's massive question marks.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
I think they're blooded.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
You fifteen odd test staboots this year, so I expect
them to improve. They'll be hurting massively. That needs to
be a line in the sand for them to say
we are not that bad and we cannot perform like
that again. They were up twenty to three and they
lost sixty seven twenty seven or something like that, so
(24:24):
they conceded massive amount of points. You know, test sit
side should not be folding like that. They're at home.
They'll fly under the radar. They've got nothing to lose.
It's a free shot at the All Blacks. Nobody expects
them to win. To even really get close, they have
to be better, you think.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
So they are going to fly under the radar this
week in Sydney. Any hopes so many. They'll get a
good crowd, but any hopes of sort of media coverage
I think are going to be They'll be fighting for
commspaces with two big Nral elimination games this weekend and
the Sydney Swan's playing in a Grand final qualify the
night before. Very very hard, you'd think for the bledders
Low Cup, given the Barbies patchy form to be getting
(25:05):
too many cormaches and the broad sheets over here.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
No, they'll be well done the wrong It is nice
to have an afternoon. I think they've done well there
to not go head to head with some of.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Those big ravel codes.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
One of the points, how much of a factor is
Joe Schmidt and Mike Kron How much inside oil are
they going to have Schmidt of course came in mid
twenty twenty two with Jason Ryan, massive influence and turning
that All Blacks team around and getting them to a
World Cup final with the m Foster A bit of
shock really when he jumps ship to join the Wallabies.
(25:40):
Mike Cron to a lesser extent, he's been out of
the All Blacks for a long time. But the key
he's through and through to various stute rugby coaches. How
much influence can they have in Wallabies All Blacks context?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Well, I think he'll know tendencies at players and it's
all about imparting that knowledge too to his team. You know,
he's he put a little, you know, a lot of
his his touches and flourishes on that All Blacks team,
and he'll know whether it's you know, Rico Yuani does this,
(26:13):
when X y Z happens, or Jordi Barrett does this.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
You know, he'll know those sort of things. You'll be
able to impart them.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's one thing in parting them, it's another actually having
the cattle and the players to stop that. And I
think that's still the question mark. Josh Matt very very
good coach. No one's doubting that. But do the Wallabies
have the talent to do it? No?
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Not really, they don't have the kettle.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
That not consistently enough. It's not the proven cattle. No,
they are in the midst of a massive rebuild. You
know Eddie Jones tore down the walls and the rubble
still very evident he did.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Edie did? Eddie did do that? Right?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
That'll do us for the first half of a Rugby
Direct will take a quick break. Want to check the
Black fans when we come back as well their big
game at Twickenham.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Every try try it had sixty sec. Every tackle, put tackle,
get up again. I can't give more time. It's Rugpy Direct.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
How ladies, you're back with Rugby Direct part by Access
Solutions elevating you and your business to a higher level.
Time for a final four, Liam, Let's toil the Black
Fans first twenty four to twelve lost to England at Twickenham.
For me, this was a better performance than the one
they turned in at Mount Smart last year against the
(27:42):
same my position. There seemed to be a bit more
confidence around the game plan and a bit more willingness
and readiness to defend, but still some issues. And I
commentated this game for gold Sport and iHeart Radio. They
had you know, parity probably for the first twenty minutes
(28:03):
or thereabouts to the match, but then England went on
a tiar and was seventeen al up by halftime, so
switched off for a bit. England took advantage, got to
twenty four nil. England could have really blown out at
that point, but New Zealand got back into the game.
Catlin of the hard Coal a couple of really nice
tries and she's been outstanding for them this year. Really
(28:25):
like the look of Maya Joseph at half back. I
think she's excellent. Some of the tactical kicking still not
quite there. They've been working on that, I know, but
it's still, you know, needs to be a little bit
better and needs to have the chasers in the right positions. Yeah,
it was positive, there were positives out of that match.
I think Isha Lettyinger seeing her back on the park
(28:46):
was good. I expected it was going to be a
loss in the vicinity of fifteen to twenty points and
to come out of a twelve point defeat and probably
having the better of the second half. In all honesty,
I think is a not necessarily a moral win for
the Black fans, but there are signs there that if
they keep hammering away get this nineteen combination working, there
(29:07):
are things that they can build on ahead of next
year's World Cup.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
You talked before about being glass half full with the
all Black swell. That's how I'm looking at the blackfood
and spells. And this was a cracking test from a spectacle.
It was played in in the afternoon and at Twickenham.
They didn't get anywhere near the record crowd, but they
have forty one thousand people. Looked like a great atmosphere
and the Blackfern's style is captivating to watch, isn't it.
(29:35):
They have a crack from everywhere and it was the
finishing the finesse was lacking. They struggled at times with
England's rush defense, the line out went astray at times.
You mentioned the tactical kicking as well, but this was
their first, you know, hit out of the year. They've
basically come out of provincial rugby. England played France. France
(29:56):
by twenty odd points.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
The previous week the week before the torch with the
Wall Rouse May Male journ.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Yeah, there's some real talent coming through.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
You mentioned why, Joseph.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I think they had something like nine caps between their
you know, nine ten combinations, so being down seventeen and
a half time, they could have crumbled and they came
back and they held England scoreless after the forty third minute.
So there are a lot of positives for this for
the Black firms to take out of that into you know,
the w x V in Canada. It was a credible performance.
(30:29):
I like you expected them to be on the wrong
side of the score line, particularly after being that far down.
So I'm very much glass half full after that performance.
And it was a genuinely cracking contest to watch, just
the ball movement, the pace, to the attitude of both
teams to have a genuine crack.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
England scored.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
You know, they're rolling Wall still bloody tough to stop.
But I think overall positive step for the Black Fins.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, I think so, and that England team.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
You look, you point out the stats, the number of
caps that the England team has got.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Well, they haven't lost at homes since twenty sixteen, and
they've basically.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Only one sixteen on trot the.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Only loss was the World Cup Final and the US
what's sexty odd tests?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So phenomenal players and phenomenal players, and you know they
continuing to grow that England team with the environment they've
gone in England around women's rugby. At the moment, it
feels like all going to plan. Those two should meet
in the World Cup Final again next year. A lot
of water to guide the bridge, but another year for
these black fans players to gather under Ellen Bunting. Anything
(31:30):
could happen in the year's time, so positive signs there.
Topic number two, we heard a new super rugby format
announced last week and sixteen weeks, an extra week, not
an extra game, but an extra week because each team's
now getting two buys. It's going to start on Valentine's
Day next year, so very romantic.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Way to kick things off and take a flower.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Roses to the foot, right.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I think the draws out the next couple of days. Yeah,
I think quite possibly, But I guess the headline of
that format is that there's no Super Round next year.
He give them a lawyer on the pod a few
months back now and Gold Coast seemed to be an
option at that point. We now have heard Perth potentially
in twenty twenty six around at Anzac Day Test could
(32:24):
be a potential option as well. But the headline of
this format is the playoffs. So one plays six and
the opening a week of the playoffs two plays five,
three plays four, the winners go through the three winners
and then a lucky loser to week two. Liam your
thoughts please.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Well the takeaway we knew that the Rebels exit severely compromised.
The draw eleven teams is very problematic, so you have
to start a week earlier, it's longer, there's an extra buy,
all those things you do not want for a competition.
You know, an uneven number of teams makes it complicated
and super Aguey knows how to complicate things, don't they.
(33:07):
And the finals format is that because if you were
going for the easiest, cleanest, simple solution would be to
give the top two teams the first week off and
then you play on from there. But there's one reason
that they haven't done that. That's because they need content,
they need games. They want the broadcasters pay for action,
(33:32):
don't they. So that's why we've got that format. The
only other one they were considering was a top seven.
I think they had to Well, the eleven teams, there's
no way in hell you could have a top eight
that would have been completely Fasted's laughed out of town.
So top six was the way to go. But it
does seem unnecessarily complicated.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, and that's the problem is that Jack Besley, the
new CEO, and we might get them on the podcast
at some point and justifying it was talking about content
and content and content sick of that word when it
comes to rugby. It's not fans. It's not fans centric,
as they keep trying to tell us. It's not fan centric.
(34:15):
Fan centric is creating the best possible matches. That's the
best content. Content is not extra games. Content is the
actual quality of the games that you were serving up.
And you can't tell me that giving the top two
teams a week off and then having three plays six
four b's five with two elimination games is not better
content than the games that you've got at the moment,
(34:37):
where you could have three v four depending on when
they schedule it, and maybe they'll manipulate it, so maybe
three four is the first game of the weekend. But
you could go have a three v four game where
both sides know they're through to the following week.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So what are you gonna do? You played Tillywinks for
eighty minutes.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Yeah, it's not great as that. And the thing about
content is actually less is more and you need that Jeopardy. Yeah.
And even when competitions expand, they often retract in terms
of the number of games. And that's the way forward
(35:15):
because saturation doesn't work, you know, just creating content for
the sake of it. So that's why if you had
the true Jeopardy, you reward those top two qualifiers for
their performance throughout the year by giving them the first
week off. That's the simplest, cleanest, fairest way to do
the top sex format. But because broadcasters and money wins out,
(35:35):
that's why we've got this format.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
We did it is yeah, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
We'll see what format they come up with in twenty
twenty six when the hawaiis how wars are coming back?
I saw there's a submission of the Cheetahs them South
Africa might come in. Who else can we get in.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
The Hawaii surfers or something?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, bring that that. Some wolves are at it.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
We'll work on those names for it always. Maybe maybe
your pillow name could wow.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Look, yeah, I'll see what that latex pillow has come
up with later tonight.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Topic three Box Argentina. What do we expect out of that?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I mean the Box have least a few players at
home for the first league of a series, all these
two games that are going to be playing in theory,
the Box should you know, be Rugby Championship champions by
the end of the week. But Argentina they have sean
two wins so far in the tournament that they are
not to be taken lightly. And you know with Australia,
(36:35):
sorry but sat are living a few players at home,
the windows open, the doors opened a little bit.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Maybe, yeah, I think so that the Pomas have impressed
in this Rugby Championship largely, haven't they beat the All Blacks? Well,
they checking wing Hyde. They can't play two good tests
in a row. So look, I think it's interesting with
the Box phenomenal depth, but there's no doubt that they
targeted the All Blacks. That was the pinnacle for them.
So there will be a bit of a come down
(37:01):
from that both. You know, anytime you split your squad
like that, there's a bit of a mental drop off.
So yeah, the poem is a real chance and at
home I wouldn't expect them to win. The following week
back in South Africa. But yeah, anytime you're not playing
your top team, you leave the door jar, don't you
(37:21):
you do?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, and look, but if they play as well they
did against Australia, especially in that second half, then there
are a chance of knocking over South Africa and all
want to steak and topic number four in the final
four the shield.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
They're anfully shield.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Tasman, Nelson, Marlborough, Nelson Bays, Marlborough, the combined province they
keep hold of the shield and Wellington sadly for you
can't take the shield away from the Auckland. They're going
to get a challenge for the first time in nine
years or something in a couple of weeks time.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
But Auckland don't never shit show the way they're playing.
The very lucky to beat Northland.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, it wasn't the greatest of shield games. There's a
lot of hype during the week about this game. Tasman
and Wellingson were unbeat him to that point, didn't really
deliver sort of a game broke out in the last
fifteen to twenty minutes or so, but it was very,
very patchy for the opening fifty to sixty minutes of
the game. But yeah, the muckel at home got the
(38:24):
job done, Liam, and you're Wellington Lions simply couldn't our Lions, Elliott. No,
we update on that. So the Jersey presentation.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
I skip the country will be done once we get
back to Auckland and it will be filmed and posted everywhere.
No one's man. But yeah, not a great shield challenge.
But look, these are the two best teams in the competition,
Tasman Wellington. I expect them to meet again in the final,
so significant win for Tasman at Home to back up
their ranfully Shieldren Wellington will be disappointed with that. They
(39:01):
had their opportunities, they didn't play very well. So credit
to the Michael Clay Wilson, our colleague texts me saying
plucky out, plucky challenge from a brave lines outfit. So
it's fair to say he was. He was very chipper.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, very plucky. I mean it's up and comers.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Wellington probably rault in the Sellary cap, but it's all right.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
They going what an accusation, back back to back, back
to back titles and coming and then your your signed
jersey will be skyrocketing and value.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That's right straight to a straight to the trade ball
room room.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
They're all about.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Do us for Rugby Direct for this week? Any other
points of water that you want to raise?
Speaker 5 (39:43):
It might be time for some food. I think yeah,
I think so, it's time.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
For dinner here in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Our thanks to X Solutions elevating you and your business
to a high level. We will be back next week
from Wellington ahead of the next match in the Bledderslower
Cup and Rugby Championship. You can catch all the analysis
this week leading into the match end of the match
itself on Inzyhill dot Co, doo in z, commentry on
new Talk, zib Gold Sport and Maheart Radio. Thanks Last
(40:08):
and Bars English for producing this podcast. As always, we'll
catch you next week for more from News Talks ed B.
Listen live on air or online and
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Keep our shows with you wherever you go with our
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this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Inside the Game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Excess Solutions, elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Rugby Direct back
again and lamb. It's good to be back face to
face with you rather than over a zoom connection and
even better to be in Sydney for the Bledersloe Cup
Test this coming Saturdays live on News Talk zib gold
(00:45):
Spoteart Radio and you can read all the excess all
the content on nz hero dot, cot and ZI. But
as always them Apa, chief sports writer and rugby correspondent
for the News here.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
As I said, it's good to be in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We've just arrived inside the last hour or so and
thought what better to do than get our headsets on
and start recording a podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Yes, it is great to be back gazing Nancy Elliott Anger,
great to hear you've patched packed the budgy smugglers or
raring to go, and also just looked through the pillow
selection here and I will confirm to our Allison's you've
gone with the latex pillow option and I will leave
you to that later.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yeah, the loc at reception was running me through the
options and there are many and I look forward to
We here for six nights and there are six options.
So between the buckweet, the micro five with the latex,
the goose down for the memory foe and the can
pressed microfiber, we are going to get a good night's sleep.
But we are here for the Test match between the
All Blacks and Australia gap and a big Test match
(01:46):
at that Liam. The All Blacks heading into this one
haven't lost to Australia in a few years, but you
know they're under a little bit of pressure given those
defeats in the Republic and leading to set things up
for you know, the Blooder's Low Cup and retaining that
under their new coach Scott Robinson as.
Speaker 5 (02:04):
A pretty intense back drop, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
The Great Seal Blacks almost a bit of a lose
lose situation coming to face the Wallabies Arabic they are
expected to win and win well retain the bleederslop continue
that twenty one year dominance and if they don't then
the Wolves really potentially start to cave in. The Wallabies
are coming off that massive defeat in Argentina where they
(02:27):
conceded sixty seven points, so you think it'll be quite
tense in that all black environment.
Speaker 5 (02:35):
They need a win. Lost three of the last four.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
They did some things really well in South Africa but
couldn't get over the line. But this is uncharted territory
for Raza, really, isn't it. A perennial winning coach who's
not used to this sort of pressure and scrutiny.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Really no, And look test matches and building a test
campaign there's a lot different to a super rugby and
I'm sure in you that coming in. But if he didn't,
it's been spelled up pretty clearly in the last few
weeks with those losses to Argentina or in South Africa,
that you in a super rugby campaign can afford the
odd loss and you know you've got well used to
(03:11):
have the rebels coming up in a few weeks time,
or you had could manager squad this time. And test
rugbit's all about wins and you're expected to win every
time you're on the park, So it is a big
change for the All Blacks. So I guess you look
at the performances in South Africa and on the basis
of that and look at some of the reaction, there's
a feeling perhaps I think that maybe a glass half
(03:34):
full approach.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
From some quarters, some quarters not so much.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
But I think there's probably a feeling that you know,
this All Blacks team is building. They do need to
get wins, of course on the board, but I think
I was surprised to see perhaps not the level of
concern that maybe I expected to see after that South
African tour.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, to a degree, I think there's the overriding emotion.
I would say it's frustration because the All Blacks had
those tests that they had gift opportunities at both Allis
Park and Cake Down to put the World Champions away
on their home patch, and they.
Speaker 5 (04:09):
Really blew it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
We've gone into the last quarter failings, but there I
think there were the selections which we can touch on,
but game management, execution, under pressure, discipline, A lot of
it was the All Black's own undoing. When the white
hot heat of playing the World Champions and those sort
of atmospheres came on, they didn't react they didn't handle
(04:33):
that well. There's big questions about the bench the finish
to those matches, so there are some real pressing concerns
for this all Black team. But yeah, there are positives.
The four pack fronted well the scrum. I would expect
them to crush the Wallabies given what we saw in Argentina,
the emergence of some youth that needs to be promoted.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
So it's certainly not all doom and gloom.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
You wrote a piece saying it's time to embrace basically
the younger generation of the All Blacks for the New
Zealand Herald and you can read that piece online. Now,
I guess for listeners that maybe haven't read it, who
should go read it, But I guess that you're you're
reasoning behind so your arguments in that piece.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
I just think it's very evident in what we've seen
from guys like Wallace the TT and that was a forced.
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Change through injury.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
My feeling is Ras has been very conservative in his
selections just to this Tenure seven tests, in the selections
of Sam Kine and TJ ped and Ara in particularly.
You can understand that to a degree, But I just
think it's it's time we're starting a new World Cup cycle.
Wallace to Tt, Billy Proctor, Cortratama. I know Ken Rogard's
(05:44):
going to be coming back. And then in the next
couple of weeks we've seen to Bouvia stand up big
time in South Africa, so tom Ty Williams as well.
So it's the youth that's really starting to put their
hand up and perform from the All Blacks, and I
just think it's time to embrace that and to go
further with it because to this point, I feel like
Rais has been quite reluctant, quite conservative.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
It's been a tough start.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
You know, it's massive changes and coaching and the head
le on McDonald's exit, but I just feel like he
needs a bit a bit more brave and bold, and
that's not easy because you don't get time to find
your feats. You're expected to win every test and now
the pressure is really on. But the overriding feeling for
(06:29):
me is he needs to double down and bring through
this youth.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Not not a Baby Blacks team.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
Because that would be reckless, but there's enough experience within
this All Blacks script to bring through the youth, don't
you think.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Well, I think so and you know someone like Billy
Proctor played very well in that Test against Fiji, hasn't
been seen well apart from the ran for the Shield
game yesterday since in All Black Studsey. You know Noah
Hotham is probably going to be the third best option
for the All Blacks when Cam Royguard is fit.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
TJ.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Pier and Are is currently there, but I don't know
if he's going on the interview tour. I don't know
what the situation is there, but perhaps look to the
future and getting someone like him. He hasn't played and
he didn't go and play for Tasman in the Shield
Challenge either, so he hasn't played for a lot. And
it's not about getting players game time, but it is
about developing.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
These players so as they build.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Over the next four years and ultimately that is their
aim of winning the twenty twenty seven World Cup that
they're in a position to do. So I think that's
twenty twelve when you know Steve Hansen blooded what was
a pretty special generation or mini generation I suppose you
call it of players you know, Sam cain Bot and
Barrett Aaron Smith all came in, yeah, all the same
(07:41):
time in that Irish series, and you know it wasn't
you know iron push for them in one Test match
but went great across that series. So it was slightly
different DA having to play England early on and then
two Tests in South Africa and that sort of thing.
But those players stood up and took their chances. I
think we've seen that with the younger players that have
had their opportunities this year, that they've been able to
(08:03):
do that and take their chances and step up in
the Test match environment.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
So that in mind.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I guess we look at the match of this week, Lamb,
and which do you see further tweaks to this All
Blacks team. I guess we've got Ethan black add A
potentially coming back, Caleb Clarke, k Patrick Deuey Bloto back
with the side as well. No, Fletcher Newell hasn't traveled
over due to an injury, so there are a few
ways they can spin it this week. But do you
(08:29):
see the possibility of making some more wholesale changes or
bigger tweaks to this All Black team as they prepare
for this game against.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
The Australian in Toney?
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Yeah? I hope so, I really do.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
I think both of us have been strong advocates, particularly
around the loose forwards, to give Wallace a TC a
start at number eights, and I would love to see that.
I would love to see them put RDI to seven.
I think the style of play, I expect this test
to be a lot more open, free flowing, expansive to
a degree than what we saw against the spring Box,
(09:03):
and that suits natural ball carriers athletes more so than
a Sam Kaine. There is a rationale for picking Sam
Kaine against the spring Box because it is going to
be tired, physical, it's combative, and he played really well.
But he's not the future of this All Black team.
So let's start finding out what is the future, particularly
around the composition of the loose forwards.
Speaker 5 (09:23):
So I want to see Walla.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Citta a Artie Severe at seven, ethan blackhead it or
potentially Scott Barrett, because we need to talk about Scott Barrett,
because I think he is feeling the weight of expectation
and the demands of being All Black captain because he
hasn't been at his best.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
I know he's been in and out through injury.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
But he did make one crucial error in that game,
you know, So I think there is a lot more
we can get from this All Black team, and start
it does start, it is highlighted for me by the
loose forwards.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, I don't think moving Scott Barrett to blindside is
a long term option for the All Blacks. He's clearly
one of the best, probably the best lock in the country,
so I I think the time that he's played blindside
is probably in the past. For me, I don't see
any benefit to that. To provile, on the other hand,
(10:16):
is an intriguing option there because the All Blacks still
have considered on the blindside option. While as TG I
thought made a good fist of it in Cape Town,
but the position that he isn't ultimately familiar with. Tod
similar isn't ultimately familiar with blindside, but he started the
opening game of the World Cup there last year, has
the body size, the build. I'd be reluctant a little
(10:39):
bit to do it because I think tupervised now becoming
the lock that the All Black selectors in twenty twenty
saw the promise off and selected him pretty much out
of obscurity to put him into that All Blacks max
in twenty twenty, So I'll be reluctant to do so,
So then I go back to, well, what is the
loose forward trio and maybe you go, you know, Wallace
(11:01):
to Titi at six, eas in Black out of seven
and Ardisavra eight. Perhaps that's to make up you go
with you can you know, switch things around a.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Little bit in there.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
But that feels a bit better. I mean, I'd still
like to see someone like Peter Lucky come out of
Wellington and get into that loose Ford trio because then
it's a really powerful six seven eight combination. But for
this test, yeah, I think Ethan Blackhead has played seven
already this year. He's versatile enough to do so. He's
been in some good form. He's probably one of the
(11:33):
all blacks best in the game at Alice Park. Yeah,
so look, I think he's worthy. I know he was
into the last time around and Walls tid he played well,
but I think he's worthy of getting back in that
loose Ford mix.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Peter Luck, I think he has to be in that squat.
He's not there now, but he has to be there
for the end of ye it's always another guy that
is the future. And I agree with you about the
composition of that loose Ford trio.
Speaker 5 (11:54):
I just think I think Ethan Blackhead.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Is best at six and like you say, he was
one of the best at Alice Park, so you'd expect
him to possibly slot back in there Elsewhere. Let's talk
about the best three because they had a horror night
in Cape Town, and I think we said last time
out it'd be very surprising to see severese, Mark t
Leer and Will Jordan's start as a back three combination. Again,
(12:22):
what is the All Blacks best back three if everyone's fit.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
Well, I don't think they know, and that is an issue.
But again, this is all about this year is yessue
want to win test matches, but it is about finding
out about some players. And you know, Caleb Clark has
had a tough few seasons. You know it was you know,
the Golden Child in twenty twenty, came in and looked very,
(12:46):
very impressive and looked for a long stay in the eleven,
made probably what was an ill fated decision to go
back to the sevens campaign that sort of put him
a step back, had some injuries as well, and now
look at the form he's rediscovered this year is back
to that form. So I think you go with the
hot hand of Caleb Clark. I put Mark to Leira
on the right wing and I'd have Will Jordan fullback.
(13:08):
I think Marchally is an interesting one. I think he
see he's gone a little bit stagnant in the All Blacks.
Jusey Sevier reach I think has gone backwards. He had
a very good opening test of the year. That's quite
a few tests to go now in Dunedin. So I'd
have ye Clark on the left wing mate til they're
on the right end, Will Jordan at fullback?
Speaker 5 (13:28):
What so you yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I agree, And I'm thinking longer term as well, because
where the All Blacks were exposed against the boxes under
high ball, and if you think about the India Tour,
three massive tests against England, Island, France middle of winter,
it's going to be raining high balls and against the
top tier nations in the world. That's where you're going
(13:50):
to be tested as a bat three. So I agree.
I think Caleb Clark's brilliant in the air we touched
last time on. Will Jordan still finding his feet, hasn't
been in great form on the wing or fullback for
the All Blacks coming back, it's tough going straight into
the Test Arena having not played super maybe lacking confidence
in con tacked after the shoulder injury. But he is
(14:12):
in all likelihood the future for the All Blacks and fullback,
so he needs more time there. And Mark Talia, I
think he's possibly suffering a bit of a lack of
confidence from having to come off the bench, been in
and out of the team.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
This coaching team hasn't put a lot of faith in them.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
His style should suit the Wallabies, great chance to build
up some confidence again. Looking further ahead, I would like
to see a mooning in Naraur given another chance. He's
very good under the high ball. He looks like he's
back and form. He's playing for center for bay Plenty,
very different level to the NPC, several rungs down from
(14:52):
Test rugby, but for me he's a better prospect longer
term than Severe Reese. I think Sevu gets exposed under
the high ball. He's a bit erratic and what he
does quite hard to predict, so it's going to be
interesting to see that long turn. But for this weekend
I agree and that that means Bowden's on the bench.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
A bit of discussion around Rico Yuwanne and his spot
at center, and we've seen him move to the left
wing in recent times in test matches. Still the school
of thought that maybe that's his best position, But for me,
I think Caleb Clark's deserving of that wing spot, especial
left wing. Rico's not gonna player the right. Club's not
playing the right, so Tim's that left wing spot. I
(15:36):
don't think you moved Rico Yuani at this point. I mean,
I'd love to see Billy prop to get a go
at center, but I don't think you move Rico Yuanne
back to the wing at this point because Caleb Clark's
the more compelling option.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
It is an interesting discuss, so it should be a
live discussion because the Cape Town tests, it was very
evident how much more involved and influential Rico was from
the wing than he was at center when he moved
out there. You know, he got the ball in space,
there's so much less for him to think about. But
it was also telling. I think speaking to him, we
(16:10):
had a discussion pod with him maybe the England series,
and he was asked.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
I think you're in this chat as well, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
How do you feel about potentially going back to the wing.
And his response was quite curtain to the point. Look,
I think we put that I thought we put that
discussion to bed. So clearly he's not interested in that.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well he's not, but he's not slipping the team. And yep,
he wants to play center, but there's you know, Bada
Bara wants to play ten. Will Jordans wanted to play fullback.
He's finally getting there, but you know, he's not slipping
the team. And if Scott Robinson deems that left wingers
is best option, then that's where I think you should go.
(16:51):
But at this point, Caler Clark I think is the
option on the left wing, and that leaves Ricco Yuanni
in the midfield.
Speaker 5 (16:57):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Like to see Rico have a start on the wing
and see how he goes as well. I think that
should be a live discussion and that these are the
tough conversations, tough selection decisions at Scott Robinson has to have.
I want to see Billy Propter starting this weekend, but
I would be surprised given him and Reuben Love and
David Hevilly all went back to play NBC last weekend.
(17:20):
That's not a great sign. Patrick two Polow Two's probably
the one that may come back into the mix. But
there's not a great sign to say that that Billy's
going to be starting this weekend.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
No I suspect And this is you know whether the
All Blacks kit that win or not. But the fair
retainment but is low Cup and maybe in Wellington they
make a few changes. They can't win Wellington anyway, so
you know the exactly you're going to lose anyway because
Wellington's a graveyard. You mentioned Patrick Tweed plot too. He
(17:51):
was the incumbent second rower before he got injured, and
unfortunate timing for the injury. Obviously, came back early from
earlier than anyone expected from the injury, suffered and super
rugby and came back and led the team to.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
The Promised Land. But what do you do with Patrick now?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Two point us had a very very good season to
this point and stepping in and starting was calling some
of the line outs at times as well.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
So what do you do with Patrick dot.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
He comes off the bench, because what an athletes to
bring off the bench? Size, power, late in the game,
tiring athletes, he could call some res real havoc and
that's an area that the All Blacks need to address.
They tried to do that by putting Boden Barrett and TJ.
Petenara back there didn't really work, so it's still an
area that they need to refine and focus on. So
(18:42):
Patrick two blot will be a big in the other
one is Ethan Degrook comes back. So's a discussion there
is Mighty Williams better starting or is a better dynamic
to bring him off the bench for Ethan the group
and the other player I want to put to you
is Harry Plummer. So I think him and George Bell
(19:04):
are the only ones we haven't seen thus far.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Rubin Love and George Bower if you include him as well.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
So look, Damian McKenzie I think has played well at times,
but his game management has been underwhelming at times as well.
He missed some very crucial kicks in that Cape Town
test that were costly. Do we see Harry Plummer against
the wall of his not necessarily this week or the next.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I think if the All Blacks win in Sydney then
you see him potentially off the bench in Wellington. Maybe
Rubin Love in Wellington as well. Though it was rather underwhelming,
it was one game by Rubin Love's performance and that
she'll challenge George Bell. I think it's a really interesting
question around George Bell because I suffered on Moore still
(19:58):
battling to see at test level the confidence you wanted
out of a line out throw. He came on for
that period for ten minutes in the game in Cape
Town and the All Blacks lineout had a few wobbles.
Then Cody Tawis through at the rest of the game
and maybe there wasn't a wee injury. Nigel to us
offer will But I think George Bell he's going to
(20:18):
be there in twenty twenty seven, you would think so.
I'd like to see a little bit more of him,
but again, don't think it'll be this week in Sydney.
I think it's more likely, you know, you get to Wellington.
The other one is I guess around to Mighty Williams,
your Blacks have been quite comfortable the last couple of seasons,
having Ethan de Groote and Trollo Max their starters and
(20:40):
then the replacements off with thorn If Fuss and Fletcher Newell.
Do you tweak that combination? I mean, you know, to
Mighty Williams coming off the bench and showing is powerful
scrummaging and ball carrying, maybe a real option, but they've
been reluctant at this point to switch to that they're
going after this week because Flincher Newell's not there. So
maybe you look to Pasily or Tossi for a bench
(21:04):
option this week. Having said that, I mean off thing
of us it can cover both side. Maybe to Mighty
Williams goes to the bench and off for covers tight
head this week, but you know, maybe Tossi we get
a chance to see him this week.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
Yeah, another guy that we haven't seen yet.
Speaker 4 (21:19):
And I watched him play for Bay Plenty at the
weekend and he is a real prospect. I think from
an elite level. Scrummaging still still a way to go.
I don't think you chuck him out against the box yet.
But as an athlete, he is mobile, he's fit, he's powerful,
he can offload, real big powerful man. So I think
(21:41):
you're I think they go to Maighty on the bench
with offer toing of.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
USU because he's got that versatility.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
But when we talk about these guys, Plumber, Pasilio, Tossi,
you know, George Bell, Peter Luckey, these guys are the
future Billy Proctor, Ruben Love and at some point you've
got to find out about them. Yeah, and the only
way to do that is to expose them. We've seen
Wallace a t step in and yes he missed three tackles,
but he also broke broke six, so that's the upside.
(22:08):
So you've got incumbents and some of them playing well,
but some of them aren't. And that's where these difficult
decisions need to be made. We're halfway into the season
now hasn't gone well, so let's make some hard calls,
find out some answers, give these guys a bit of chance,
and yes it's a balancing act, but I just need
I want to see some brave and bold selections.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah, on that all.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Blake's halfway through the season, seven tests down seven to
come give us grade.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
Only it's just a pass mark for me, five out
of ten and that's just scraping by four and three.
So you're what is it fifty fifty six percent for
Raza to this point mid point in the year, two
very patchy wins against England's the Bowden cameo won them
(22:58):
the second Test at Eden Park, bad loss to Argentina
at home responded really well and then performed well in
South Africa Blue. It's so I've been underwhelmed to this point,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Five and a half out of ten for me, you're
always a bit more. You will sea get degrees.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Past mark across cross Australia this weekend.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Off the back of that heavy defeat.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Against Argentina In Argentina, do we see a response from
Australia Do they have it in them? What can we
expect from Australia this week?
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I don't expect them to be that bad, but you
look through that team and you're still missing some some
rare experience, some proven test experience. There's no Will Skelton,
they've gone away from Kuwaid Cooper. Still some big question
marks at ten some of carev. You know, these guys
(23:57):
that have been there, done that are absent and so
there's massive question marks.
Speaker 5 (24:01):
I think they're blooded.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
You fifteen odd test staboots this year, so I expect
them to improve. They'll be hurting massively. That needs to
be a line in the sand for them to say
we are not that bad and we cannot perform like
that again. They were up twenty to three and they
lost sixty seven twenty seven or something like that, so
(24:24):
they conceded massive amount of points. You know, test sit
side should not be folding like that. They're at home.
They'll fly under the radar. They've got nothing to lose.
It's a free shot at the All Blacks. Nobody expects
them to win. To even really get close, they have
to be better, you think.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
So they are going to fly under the radar this
week in Sydney. Any hopes so many. They'll get a
good crowd, but any hopes of sort of media coverage
I think are going to be They'll be fighting for
commspaces with two big Nral elimination games this weekend and
the Sydney Swan's playing in a Grand final qualify the
night before. Very very hard, you'd think for the bledders
Low Cup, given the Barbies patchy form to be getting
(25:05):
too many cormaches and the broad sheets over here.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
No, they'll be well done the wrong It is nice
to have an afternoon. I think they've done well there
to not go head to head with some of.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Those big ravel codes.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
One of the points, how much of a factor is
Joe Schmidt and Mike Kron How much inside oil are
they going to have Schmidt of course came in mid
twenty twenty two with Jason Ryan, massive influence and turning
that All Blacks team around and getting them to a
World Cup final with the m Foster A bit of
shock really when he jumps ship to join the Wallabies.
(25:40):
Mike Cron to a lesser extent, he's been out of
the All Blacks for a long time. But the key
he's through and through to various stute rugby coaches. How
much influence can they have in Wallabies All Blacks context?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Well, I think he'll know tendencies at players and it's
all about imparting that knowledge too to his team. You know,
he's he put a little, you know, a lot of
his his touches and flourishes on that All Blacks team,
and he'll know whether it's you know, Rico Yuani does this,
(26:13):
when X y Z happens, or Jordi Barrett does this.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
You know, he'll know those sort of things. You'll be
able to impart them.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's one thing in parting them, it's another actually having
the cattle and the players to stop that. And I
think that's still the question mark. Josh Matt very very
good coach. No one's doubting that. But do the Wallabies
have the talent to do it? No?
Speaker 5 (26:34):
Not really, they don't have the kettle.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
That not consistently enough. It's not the proven cattle. No,
they are in the midst of a massive rebuild. You
know Eddie Jones tore down the walls and the rubble
still very evident he did.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Edie did? Eddie did do that? Right?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
That'll do us for the first half of a Rugby
Direct will take a quick break. Want to check the
Black fans when we come back as well their big
game at Twickenham.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Every try try it had sixty sec. Every tackle, put tackle,
get up again. I can't give more time. It's Rugpy Direct.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
How ladies, you're back with Rugby Direct part by Access
Solutions elevating you and your business to a higher level.
Time for a final four, Liam, Let's toil the Black
Fans first twenty four to twelve lost to England at Twickenham.
For me, this was a better performance than the one
they turned in at Mount Smart last year against the
(27:42):
same my position. There seemed to be a bit more
confidence around the game plan and a bit more willingness
and readiness to defend, but still some issues. And I
commentated this game for gold Sport and iHeart Radio. They
had you know, parity probably for the first twenty minutes
(28:03):
or thereabouts to the match, but then England went on
a tiar and was seventeen al up by halftime, so
switched off for a bit. England took advantage, got to
twenty four nil. England could have really blown out at
that point, but New Zealand got back into the game.
Catlin of the hard Coal a couple of really nice
tries and she's been outstanding for them this year. Really
(28:25):
like the look of Maya Joseph at half back. I
think she's excellent. Some of the tactical kicking still not
quite there. They've been working on that, I know, but
it's still, you know, needs to be a little bit
better and needs to have the chasers in the right positions. Yeah,
it was positive, there were positives out of that match.
I think Isha Lettyinger seeing her back on the park
(28:46):
was good. I expected it was going to be a
loss in the vicinity of fifteen to twenty points and
to come out of a twelve point defeat and probably
having the better of the second half. In all honesty,
I think is a not necessarily a moral win for
the Black fans, but there are signs there that if
they keep hammering away get this nineteen combination working, there
(29:07):
are things that they can build on ahead of next
year's World Cup.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
You talked before about being glass half full with the
all Black swell. That's how I'm looking at the blackfood
and spells. And this was a cracking test from a spectacle.
It was played in in the afternoon and at Twickenham.
They didn't get anywhere near the record crowd, but they
have forty one thousand people. Looked like a great atmosphere
and the Blackfern's style is captivating to watch, isn't it.
(29:35):
They have a crack from everywhere and it was the
finishing the finesse was lacking. They struggled at times with
England's rush defense, the line out went astray at times.
You mentioned the tactical kicking as well, but this was
their first, you know, hit out of the year. They've
basically come out of provincial rugby. England played France. France
(29:56):
by twenty odd points.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
The previous week the week before the torch with the
Wall Rouse May Male journ.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Yeah, there's some real talent coming through.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
You mentioned why, Joseph.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I think they had something like nine caps between their
you know, nine ten combinations, so being down seventeen and
a half time, they could have crumbled and they came
back and they held England scoreless after the forty third minute.
So there are a lot of positives for this for
the Black firms to take out of that into you know,
the w x V in Canada. It was a credible performance.
(30:29):
I like you expected them to be on the wrong
side of the score line, particularly after being that far down.
So I'm very much glass half full after that performance.
And it was a genuinely cracking contest to watch, just
the ball movement, the pace, to the attitude of both
teams to have a genuine crack.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
England scored.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
You know, they're rolling Wall still bloody tough to stop.
But I think overall positive step for the Black Fins.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, I think so, and that England team.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
You look, you point out the stats, the number of
caps that the England team has got.
Speaker 4 (30:59):
Well, they haven't lost at homes since twenty sixteen, and
they've basically.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Only one sixteen on trot the.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
Only loss was the World Cup Final and the US
what's sexty odd tests?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So phenomenal players and phenomenal players, and you know they
continuing to grow that England team with the environment they've
gone in England around women's rugby. At the moment, it
feels like all going to plan. Those two should meet
in the World Cup Final again next year. A lot
of water to guide the bridge, but another year for
these black fans players to gather under Ellen Bunting. Anything
(31:30):
could happen in the year's time, so positive signs there.
Topic number two, we heard a new super rugby format
announced last week and sixteen weeks, an extra week, not
an extra game, but an extra week because each team's
now getting two buys. It's going to start on Valentine's
Day next year, so very romantic.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Way to kick things off and take a flower.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
Roses to the foot, right.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
I think the draws out the next couple of days. Yeah,
I think quite possibly, But I guess the headline of
that format is that there's no Super Round next year.
He give them a lawyer on the pod a few
months back now and Gold Coast seemed to be an
option at that point. We now have heard Perth potentially
in twenty twenty six around at Anzac Day Test could
(32:24):
be a potential option as well. But the headline of
this format is the playoffs. So one plays six and
the opening a week of the playoffs two plays five,
three plays four, the winners go through the three winners
and then a lucky loser to week two. Liam your
thoughts please.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
Well the takeaway we knew that the Rebels exit severely compromised.
The draw eleven teams is very problematic, so you have
to start a week earlier, it's longer, there's an extra buy,
all those things you do not want for a competition.
You know, an uneven number of teams makes it complicated
and super Aguey knows how to complicate things, don't they.
(33:07):
And the finals format is that because if you were
going for the easiest, cleanest, simple solution would be to
give the top two teams the first week off and
then you play on from there. But there's one reason
that they haven't done that. That's because they need content,
they need games. They want the broadcasters pay for action,
(33:32):
don't they. So that's why we've got that format. The
only other one they were considering was a top seven.
I think they had to Well, the eleven teams, there's
no way in hell you could have a top eight
that would have been completely Fasted's laughed out of town.
So top six was the way to go. But it
does seem unnecessarily complicated.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah, and that's the problem is that Jack Besley, the
new CEO, and we might get them on the podcast
at some point and justifying it was talking about content
and content and content sick of that word when it
comes to rugby. It's not fans. It's not fans centric,
as they keep trying to tell us. It's not fan centric.
(34:15):
Fan centric is creating the best possible matches. That's the
best content. Content is not extra games. Content is the
actual quality of the games that you were serving up.
And you can't tell me that giving the top two
teams a week off and then having three plays six
four b's five with two elimination games is not better
content than the games that you've got at the moment,
(34:37):
where you could have three v four depending on when
they schedule it, and maybe they'll manipulate it, so maybe
three four is the first game of the weekend. But
you could go have a three v four game where
both sides know they're through to the following week.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So what are you gonna do? You played Tillywinks for
eighty minutes.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Yeah, it's not great as that. And the thing about
content is actually less is more and you need that Jeopardy. Yeah.
And even when competitions expand, they often retract in terms
of the number of games. And that's the way forward
(35:15):
because saturation doesn't work, you know, just creating content for
the sake of it. So that's why if you had
the true Jeopardy, you reward those top two qualifiers for
their performance throughout the year by giving them the first
week off. That's the simplest, cleanest, fairest way to do
the top sex format. But because broadcasters and money wins out,
(35:35):
that's why we've got this format.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
We did it is yeah, and that's unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
We'll see what format they come up with in twenty
twenty six when the hawaiis how wars are coming back?
I saw there's a submission of the Cheetahs them South
Africa might come in. Who else can we get in.
Speaker 5 (35:51):
The Hawaii surfers or something?
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah, bring that that. Some wolves are at it.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
We'll work on those names for it always. Maybe maybe
your pillow name could wow.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Look, yeah, I'll see what that latex pillow has come
up with later tonight.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Topic three Box Argentina. What do we expect out of that?
Speaker 3 (36:12):
I mean the Box have least a few players at
home for the first league of a series, all these
two games that are going to be playing in theory,
the Box should you know, be Rugby Championship champions by
the end of the week. But Argentina they have sean
two wins so far in the tournament that they are
not to be taken lightly. And you know with Australia,
(36:35):
sorry but sat are living a few players at home,
the windows open, the doors opened a little bit.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
Maybe, yeah, I think so that the Pomas have impressed
in this Rugby Championship largely, haven't they beat the All Blacks? Well,
they checking wing Hyde. They can't play two good tests
in a row. So look, I think it's interesting with
the Box phenomenal depth, but there's no doubt that they
targeted the All Blacks. That was the pinnacle for them.
So there will be a bit of a come down
(37:01):
from that both. You know, anytime you split your squad
like that, there's a bit of a mental drop off.
So yeah, the poem is a real chance and at
home I wouldn't expect them to win. The following week
back in South Africa. But yeah, anytime you're not playing
your top team, you leave the door jar, don't you
(37:21):
you do?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
Yeah, and look, but if they play as well they
did against Australia, especially in that second half, then there
are a chance of knocking over South Africa and all
want to steak and topic number four in the final
four the shield.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
They're anfully shield.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Tasman, Nelson, Marlborough, Nelson Bays, Marlborough, the combined province they
keep hold of the shield and Wellington sadly for you
can't take the shield away from the Auckland. They're going
to get a challenge for the first time in nine
years or something in a couple of weeks time.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
But Auckland don't never shit show the way they're playing.
The very lucky to beat Northland.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, it wasn't the greatest of shield games. There's a
lot of hype during the week about this game. Tasman
and Wellingson were unbeat him to that point, didn't really
deliver sort of a game broke out in the last
fifteen to twenty minutes or so, but it was very,
very patchy for the opening fifty to sixty minutes of
the game. But yeah, the muckel at home got the
(38:24):
job done, Liam, and you're Wellington Lions simply couldn't our Lions, Elliott. No,
we update on that. So the Jersey presentation.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
I skip the country will be done once we get
back to Auckland and it will be filmed and posted everywhere.
No one's man. But yeah, not a great shield challenge.
But look, these are the two best teams in the competition,
Tasman Wellington. I expect them to meet again in the final,
so significant win for Tasman at Home to back up
their ranfully Shieldren Wellington will be disappointed with that. They
(39:01):
had their opportunities, they didn't play very well. So credit
to the Michael Clay Wilson, our colleague texts me saying
plucky out, plucky challenge from a brave lines outfit. So
it's fair to say he was. He was very chipper.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, very plucky. I mean it's up and comers.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Wellington probably rault in the Sellary cap, but it's all right.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
They going what an accusation, back back to back, back
to back titles and coming and then your your signed
jersey will be skyrocketing and value.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
That's right straight to a straight to the trade ball
room room.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
They're all about.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Do us for Rugby Direct for this week? Any other
points of water that you want to raise?
Speaker 5 (39:43):
It might be time for some food. I think yeah,
I think so, it's time.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
For dinner here in Sydney.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Our thanks to X Solutions elevating you and your business
to a high level. We will be back next week
from Wellington ahead of the next match in the Bledderslower
Cup and Rugby Championship. You can catch all the analysis
this week leading into the match end of the match
itself on Inzyhill dot Co, doo in z, commentry on
new Talk, zib Gold Sport and Maheart Radio. Thanks Last
(40:08):
and Bars English for producing this podcast. As always, we'll
catch you next week for more from News Talks ed B.
Listen live on air or online and
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Keep our shows with you wherever you go with our
podcasts on iHeartRadio
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