Rugby Direct - Episode 162

This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier review a big weekend of Super Rugby with the Chiefs storming back to beat the Crusaders in Christchurch to move clear at the top of the table, while the Blues continue their playoff charge with a win over the Drua in Fiji.

We also recap a bumper week for rugby news, with the Black Ferns and New Zealand Under-20 sides taking big wins, the British and Irish Lions squad to tour Australia is named and NZR post a big financial loss.

And recently retired Blues midfielder Bryce Heem joins the podcast for an extended chat to look back at his career.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio, Strike
down the Middle.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Try try these pocket.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Health, tackling all
your aches and pains from sports and work back for
another week after a few days extra to dissect and
digest the round that was in Super Rugby. But first
and foremost big welcome back to Liam Napier after Magic Round,
et cetera.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Have you recovered I have needed fixture days to recover
and rumor has it Ellie you need a future days
to recover from that Crusader's defeat.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Dear idea, We'll get to that in just a second.
Speaking of Magic Round, I guess Super runs the mirror
to that. What did you take away from that experience
apart from you know, a few healthy jugs of four X?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
I'm sure yes. Look it is a fantastic event.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
The Brisbane Wider Brisbane City do it brilliantly and it's
a perfect setting for Super Round, Magic Round, whatever it
is you've got Cackson Street. They're a good a two
minute walk from sun Stadium, which is the best viewing
venue in Australasia for rugby and rugby league. And they're

(01:46):
just very fluid with it. You can come and go
from the stadium as you want, watch one game, leave,
come back, go to the pub and they do.

Speaker 4 (01:57):
It really well.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
So before a Warriors game they have a designated bar
where all the you know Warriors fans go. They roll
out former players Mark Tukey, Kevin Campion and the like.
So it's just a really well run events. Lots of
punters come in from New Zealand's, lots of expats kiwis
and yeah, it really does.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Set the bar for that sort of concept.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
And it's been a success in Brisbane for a long
time and it's staying there for the foreseeable future. And
yeah I went three years ago, went back this year
and will needs another year to recover. But yeah, I
would encourage anyone to get amongst that and look super

(02:42):
around hasn't worked, has it? For Super Rugby? At the
Plunking in Melbourne? Purely from a financial perspective, didn't work,
So let's make it work somewhere yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
And I've just been in christ Church for the weekend
and I can tell from my people on the ground
there that the drums are beating very loudly that they'll
host super Round in twenty twenty six. Nothing confirmed as yet,
I should add, but the drums are being This room
has been around obviously, new stadium coming next year, but
it's going to be completed by April. The theory being

(03:16):
that maybe they open it with a Crusaders Game of
the Week prior and then the week after that or
two weeks after that, whatever it might be, super Round,
Maybe it's over a long weekends ends that weekend, whatever
it might be, and you have it to I guess
Christen the new stadium, which will be pretty special.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
It would, and it makes a lot of sense on
the face of it in terms of the proximity of
the stadium to the city short walk and you're back
in the heart of the city, bars, restaurants, whatever it
may be. Yeah, and I'd encourage Rugby to have that
flexibility to allow people to come and go and what
a venue that that is going to be for Chrush.
That's gonna really you put it on the map and

(03:54):
indore brilliance and yeah, you know it'll be hopefully great
to see the Crusaders rebound from another disappointing campaign.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Right before we get into that, Black Ferns on the
weekend kicking off their World Cup year thirty eight twelve
winners over Australia. Fairly comprehensive and not everything we went
to plan. But I thought for our first hit out
of the calendary year, it was pretty good. Braxton sorrens
and McGee makes her deburg gets a couple of tries
for me. I mean, I think it was the obvious
choice anyway, but she has to be the starting fullback,

(04:29):
first choice for this team. Some good signs for the
Black Funds, but plenty to work on as they face
bag a challenges, including Canada this weekend, who beat them
last year in the mirror competition.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
Yeah, probably expected a wee bit more from the Black fans,
but as you say, it is their first hit out,
so rusters to be expected. Tougher challenges await. But what
a story Braxton Sirenson McGee is coming from outside the
Blue squad really debut Super Rugby season and saw her
talking postmatch about how easy it was stepping into the

(05:02):
Black Ferns because there's a number of Blues players in
that team. But also so I guess the level of
competitiveness and competition. She looks born for that arena, doesn't
she a young woman with the world at her feet,
great talents and her feet on the ground as well.
But yeah, the Black Ferns, it's a starting point, isn't it.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
And it's a massive year for them, so they'll build.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
And I know they had Wayne Smith in a couple
of weeks ago, so good to see the Professor still
keeping his hands in the mix there because he was
such an influential figure in the last World Cup.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Trump that's right, and I'm sure he's imparted all sorts
of wisdom and knowledge into that camp. But interesting to
see how they integrate the Sevens players from this weekend
that have now arrived in camp in christ to head
of that game against Canada Georgia and Miller recy Pouldy Lane,
Stacy Wackets. That's going to be fascinating to see how
Alan Bunting begins to integrate those players into the mix
who haven't played a lot of fifteens in recent times.

(06:01):
But as I say, start for the start for the
Black Ferns, big games and bigger challenges to come right.
I've put her off for too long. Crusaders Chiefs Saturday night,
I went down and called this game for gold Sport
and Nightheart Radio. Crusaders lead nineteen three in about the
thirty ninth minutes, and from the inn it just unraveled

(06:21):
at a rate of knots and you could feel the
momentum turning even before halftime when and Modey Nadawa scored
that try gob By to nineteen ten. At the break,
the Chiefs went in with their tails up and they
hadn't been able to play a lot of rugby. I
felt to that point the Crusaders had defended well forced
Eras and the Crusaders had scored some tries of their own.

(06:42):
But just after halftime, the Chiefs soaked up all that position.
They didn't allow the Crusaders to get an inch innet
opening fifteen twenty minutes. It felt like the second spell
and they took the game away from them. And that
was there's bigger the momentum switches I can see in
the game. The Crusaders went out of sight, but they
unraveled really really quickly. What did you make of that game, Lem.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
There's a lot to unpack there.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
I think at nineteen three the score probably wasn't reflective
of the contest. The Chiefs had a lot of chances,
made a few mistakes, the Crusaders took theirs, and there
was a couple of things that swung that game. Will
Jordan's absence was massive, and you shouldn't be reliant on
one player alone, but it's clear in his absence just

(07:26):
how much of an effect he's had on that team
this year. Didn't play last year, He's played every game
this year and he's been huge for their attack and
helping guide some young tens. I thought it was a
stark contrast, and it's not solely fair in any way
to pin the loss on him, But Rivers Rayhanna his
performance compared to the Highnders when everything was going the

(07:50):
Crusader's way, they had the front football, they're rolling and
he had an arm tier rides. But when in the
second half, in particular, when the Chiefs pat got a
role on, You've got Someersoni, Takyajol coming off the bench,
some of Penny Female as well. Wallace a Titi massive
performance in his first start of the year.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
Jeez. That's some power.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
That they have, and when they get a roll on,
they're incredibly difficult to stop. They scored thirty two unanswered points.
The Crusaders really didn't have any answers, couldn't swing that
momentum that you talk about. And one of the chief
strengths is not just that power, but their ability to
play second phase. Their big men use the ball, they

(08:34):
create space and when they give Damien McKenzie that platform,
he is lethal. That the little switch move to come
back and score that try. That was a real dagger
blow and it was a real statement from the Chiefs
because let's not forget they came off a loss to
the Hurricanes and CLAYT McMillan savvy move to turn the

(08:56):
music off in the sheds and make his team listen
to the Hurricanes' brilliant team song. It must be said,
stew on that loss, jump on that just fishing out there.
It's due on that loss, and he got the desired reactions.
So big statement performance from the Chiefs, and while they

(09:18):
have a buy, it does put them in the box
seat to finish first and have home advantage for the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
It does one of The telling statistics for me was
the Crusader actually had more percent position in the second
spell than the first, which it didn't really feel like.

Speaker 5 (09:34):
They had.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Fifty two percent in the second spell can be to
thirty nine in the first spell. The second half, though
they spent just thirty six percent time in Chiefs territory,
the Chiefs had sixty four percent. They couldn't plain the
right areas of the park, and that's on rivers, Rayhanna.
It's on their game drivers to get them out of trouble,
and they were just a little bit at sea. Couple
of por chosen kicks from David h Villi Noah Hootham

(09:58):
at times put them on the back foot and the
Chiefs took full advantage. And I think it was a
reminder to the Crusaders how not fine the margins can be.
But you you just got to be on when you
play a team like the Chiefs, is that you nineteen
three up. You might have a bit of an advantage
in your pocket, but that can be whittled away really quickly,
and that momentum can swing wildly, and it swung wildly

(10:20):
in favor of the Chiefs. And to not score a
second a point in the second spell was really damning,
I thought for the Crusaders.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
Yeah, big time, and the Crusaders in their past two games,
I think they've made something like four hundred and eighty
eight tackles and that's a credit to them, but it's
also not sustainable. You're not going to win a competition
taking that much fatigue. So the kicking game does need
to improve because that was punished big time leader Leroy Carter.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
What a breakout try.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
The Chiefs are lethal on the counter attack, as they showed,
and yeah it is on those game drivers, particularly guys
like David Hevilly, who's a senior figure in that back line.
I thought Quintupia outperformed heavily in a.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Not an all black trial.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
But those sort of matchups what Scott Robinson, the selectors
will set up and take notice of. No hope them
has been very good for the Crusaders this year, but
a couple of costly kicks from him and yeah, you've
just got to be better. You've got to be more astute,
more accurate. And it was quite staggering, wasn't it to

(11:30):
watch that unfold? You were there, there must have been
a real dim of silence come over that crowd, A
bit of bewilderment in the second half.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well there was yeah, nineteen ten up at halftime. Game
wasn't done by any stretch of the imagination. But just
when the chief scored those two quick tries to set
up the first spell, I sorry early in the second
spell to level the game then go aheads, it felt
like the year had been sucked out of the stadium.
And even at that point, ten minutes into the second spell,
it felt like, even though the Crusaders were I can't

(11:59):
read the exact score line, but not far behind on
the school board, it felt like it was a long
way back. That whatever the lead was made well have
been fifteen points at that stage. Because the momentum had
changed so wildly. It was actually hard to see the
Crusaders getting back into the contest, and they never did.
The Chiefs played extremely well. I thought Wallace the titi
was outstanding. I think it was twenty two carries, one

(12:20):
hundred and thirteen meters he scored that great try.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
What power and strength and knowledge of where he was
in relation to the tri line.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah, absolutely, and that try the Chiefs scored where they
basically went from inside their own half and just plotted
their way up the field. I thought was great. Chiefs
Rugby and Damian McKenzie back as well. He'd missed the
last couple of weeks the Force and the Hurricanes loss
with that injury that was fairly minor hand injury, but
just his ability to stand up after halftime, I thought,
and direct this team around the paddock I thought was expert.

(12:52):
And this is the kind of performance when you look
at Super Rugby title victories that can really propel you forward.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
It can, and the Chiefs have to a degree, you
had the Crusader's number in recent years. Obviously the Crusaders
went to Hamilton and got the one that mattered in
the final, but the Chiefs and round robin play have
had a lot of success against the Crusaders.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
If we take a step back and.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Look at this in the context of the year, a
loss like this, particularly at home, can have deep psychological scars.
Do you still believe the Crusaders can win the title
this year?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
I think they can, but they're clearly second favorite, we
even third favorite perhaps for the title. Now obvious they've
slipped the third behind the Brumbies. They have to go
visit the Brumbies in the final round. That the Wartas
away this weekend, which has not been a happy hunting
ground for them. Even in the Scott robertson ero of
the Crusaders, they dropped a couple of games over there.
I think he's the only Australian team that scrolls and

(13:51):
lost to his entire tenure for recoll rightly. And they've
got the Highlanders in the middle of that at home,
a game they should win, So in theory they can
win all three of those games. And they've got more
games on the table compared to the Chiefs and the Brumbies,
so in theory they could still finish top. That home
advantage could be key coming to the playoffs if they can
run the table from here. But the thing with that

(14:14):
kind of lost like that, it just brings those doubts
into your mind. And they've got to rebound this week
against the Warritas. If it was one off game in
Hamilton or in christ Church. I think they could still
go up there and beat the Chiefs. They did it
last year when they were atrocious. They beat the Chiefs
in Hamilton, so I think the last five games heading
into that one on the weekend had been five and
five split between those two. The Chiefs hadn't had a

(14:37):
lot of success in christ Church in recent times, but
I think a one off game they can still win,
but they need Will Jordan back and the good news
is out of that it sounds like he's perhaps two
or three weeks away from returning, which is a lot
better than maybe people had feared.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah, I would go as far to say if Will
Jordan was gone for the year, that's the Crusader's not done,
obviously being the playoffs and could well make the final.
But he has been so influential for them this year
and it does sound like he'll be back for the playoffs,
So you're looking maybe three four weeks, which is great
news for the Crusaders and the All Blacks because nobody

(15:15):
is in cooey of in terms of form fullbacks. So
very interesting to see how they navigate the last three
weeks without them, because it's not an easy stretch.

Speaker 4 (15:25):
As you point out.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Let's go back to Friday Night and the Blues beat
in the Fiji and drew a thirty four to five
in Suva, and look, I don't really what to say
about this game other than that the Blues continued their
march and their improvement for the Drawer were really disappointing,
and it's hard to know what we learned about the Blues.

(15:48):
And I've said this in a couple of weeks in
a row now around that because the Blues are banked wins.
But again this week AGA's more Wana. There'll be a
test for them. They've got the Waratahs after the by
final round. But again I don't know what we learned
about the Blues because I didn't feel like the drawer
fired a shot. Now, whether that was because the Blues
were so good, whether the Drawer just didn't turn up,

(16:08):
I don't really know. Obviously, the Drawer had that horrible
news before the game around one of the former sevens
players passing away in a tragic car crash. So it's
hard to know what to take out of it. What
did you take out of that Blues game.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I think it showed you can't write the Blues off.
They will be in the playoffs and no one will
want to play them. They are still very limited in
the way that they approach the game, but they have
recaptured the authenticity their DNA of Verncotterer and it is

(16:42):
very effective when it's done well and it's set peace strength,
it's direct, it's powerful the outside back see very limited ball.
Boden Barrett's playing very well and he is reveling in
that sort of game plan because a lot rests on
his shoulders to direct a lot of that. But I
agree with you that you can't take too much out

(17:03):
of that. The Dria have been very poor this year,
even at home, and they rocked by that news pre match.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
But the Blues did what they have had to do.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
It was methodical and it was largely impressive, and I
think they'll get a few bodies back in the coming weeks.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
Kate.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
You put Caleb Clark and Mark Tala back in that team.
Stephen Petefetter perhaps in the next couple of weeks as well.
Nobody's going to want to play them in the playoffs,
even if it's even if the Blues are away from home.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, it was clinical from the Blues and those conditions
can be tricky, even at night in Fiji. But they
rolled their sleeves up, got the job done, left with
the five points and I think Vancotta will be pretty
pleased with what he saw at Anton. Signa coming off
with an injury. But apart from that, I think it
was a case of job done for the Blues and

(17:52):
they've got an eight down turn around as they played
more onea Pacifica this week which in the context of
both of their campaigns, the Blues and Fifth Majana on
the outside of the Plows at the moment looking in
big game at North Harbor Stadium this weekend.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Yeah, Blues did it fairly easy in the first local
derby with Moana, but I think it will be a
different prospect going to Albany. Moana's played well this year
there and Ardi and co. Will have a bit of
confidence after beating the Landers, so yeah, it'll be a

(18:24):
pretty special occasion. You'd think over the Bridge in I
guess a bit of a neutral venue in some respects.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
That's right, So interesting ploth makes at the moment, isn't it.
Chiefs out on top on forty one points, Brumbies and
second thirty nine, the Crusaders on thirty seven. Crusaders with
three games to play, the Chiefs and Brumby's with just
two reads in fourth on thirty two, Blues and fifth
on twenty seven. Hurricanes in Sex on twenty six Mowana
twenty four, Wartars twenty two, Force twenty two, and I

(18:53):
think we can roll that behind us and draw certainly
making the Plovs. Where do you see the Plovs over
the last next couple of weeks? Can anyone Mowana Warritars
make their way in on the basis of what we're
looking at.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
No, I think the top six stays as it is.
It's just a matter of who finishes where.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Chiefs as it was standing, we play the Hurricanes first up.
Brumbies have played the Blues Crusaders. I think the Crusaders
might be quite happy about that if they play the
Reds first week.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, I think you would be happy with that. But
you want to play the Cane train. They're just coming
in some form.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Well we'll see about that. Kenna hollow as well.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Gone for the year for the year, Yeah, big blow
that because he was really starting to hum. But the
Hurricanes have found some form and it's on the back
of Riley Higgins and Billy Procter coming into the midfield.
Ruben Love going to number ten. He was very good
prior to the Buyer and their win over the Chiefs,
and I think actually signaled that's his future and longer

(19:53):
term as a real prospect of the All Blacks for ten?

Speaker 2 (19:57):
What implications does this have for the All Blacks? And again,
I guess if Ruben Love's at ten, for someone like
Stephen Peter Fett to say, do you include Ruben Love
as a ten and All Blacks? Does it give you
some free to take another player elsewhere? If you've got
Ruben Love, I mean he could play ten, he approplay
right wing, you can play fullback. But would you select
them as a ten option in that squad right now?

Speaker 3 (20:18):
I think he should play ten for the Canes and
then be versatile for the All Blacks. I don't think
he needs to be pigeonholed as a ten. Look around
the world Thomas Farramos, Damien Willimpson and closer to home,
Bowden Bart, Damien McKenzie, the all interchange between ten and fifteen,
and I think Ruben can do that for you know,

(20:39):
the next couple of years. Ideally, I think I would
like to see him at ten for the Canes for
the foreseeable future. But for the All Blacks I think
obviously you've got Bowden and Damien and Richard Wong a
coming back next year, so he's not really going to
get a looking and that's the same case for Stephen Petefetter.
So I can see a scenario where Stephen Peterfetter gets

(21:02):
a bit fed up and goes to Japan, and maybe
you're looking at post World Cup reubend Love becoming a
real prospect team for the All Blacks. That gives him
a couple of years to develop, to mature, to have
time in the saddle, to learn through experience. But he
is of the consummate professional. He works really hard behind

(21:24):
the scenes. He's been mentored by TJ. Petinara. He's only
twenty four years old, he's resigned to twenty twenty eights.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
He's got a big future.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
He certainly does that All Black squads are obviously to
be named next month. That'll do us. The first half
of the Rugby Direct podcast with our friends at Habit Health,
tackling all your aches and pains from sports and work
back with the final four, our Tipping and Bryce team
joining the pod as well recently retired Blues player on
the way.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Every try try as sixty second, every tackle tackle, Get
up again, afore.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
Haf time it's Rugby Direct Ladies.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
And one Welcome back to Rugby Direct, pound by Habit
Health tackling all your inks and pains from sport and work.
Second half of the podcast, Price team retired Blues midfielder
on the way as well. Time though for the final
four four rugby topics Liam and I debate them Let's
get into Themre's plenty around This week Liam and the
New Zealand under twenties winning the Under twenty edition of

(22:33):
the Rugby Championship, beating South Africa forty eight forty five
in the final draw against Australia. First up big win
against Argentina and then wrapping it up with a win
over South Africa, promising signs that. I guess it's hard
to tell. The World Cup itself is coming up later
in the year. But to go and beat a South
African team on South African soil, putting forty eight points
on I saw the highlights of this, I should say,

(22:56):
pretty entertaining stuff. Defense might be a work on before
the World Cup itself.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
Yeah, very high scoring match, wasn't it? Defense optional to
a degree? But like you say, to go to South
Africa and get that win and I think defend the
title in terms of the rugby championship concept. And it
is great that this concept has been brought back because
I think you did see the under twenties, particularly in
New Zealand, fall away compared to the Northern Hemisphere who

(23:22):
had their six Nations edition. So I'm always a wee
bit weary about how much these results translate in terms
of senior men's rugby, but it is a good indication
and there are some very promising players in that team,
likes of Dylan Pledger half back I think he signed

(23:43):
to the Highlanders, looks the goods and a number of
other guys in that mix. So they'll take a lot
of conference from that, and yeah, let's hope they can
bring home the Under twenties World Cup.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Fingers crossed top number two. The Lions squad British Nish
line squad announced last week. Marotoji the captain. I mean,
I guess fairly predictable, Henry Pollock, who was having a
great young career at this stage, and I guess still
an unproving quantity at test level. But Andy Farrells punted
someone like him, very very young, very very raw, and

(24:16):
he may well may well be the making of him
in terms of his career by going on this line sto,
he's going to be carrying around the mascot, I'm sure,
and being in charge of that. So it's convenestioning there
how he progresses, but by and large relatory, predictable apart
from one name and that was the injuring news that
developed what forty eight hours or thereabouts before the squad
was named, and a big blow not having Kaitlin Doris there.

(24:38):
What was your reaction to that team?

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, massive blow losing Doris. He has been one of
the form loose forwards and will rugby for a number
of years now. I think Maro probably would have been captain,
but Doris was certainly a strong candidate for that. Pollock
one headline inclusion Finn Smith another from Northampton. The team
that went to Dublin and upset. I won't call them

(25:03):
Jordy Barrett's leinster because he's only there for.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Six months off the bench as well of that game.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Shocking election call that was Leo Cullen's been roasted for that,
but yeah, I think a reflection of form and also combinations.
I think there's fifteen Irishmen in that squad twelve Englishman,
eight Scotts and two Welsh. So that does reflect the
balance of power I think in those home nations, and

(25:29):
there is a lot of combinations that Andy Farrell and
his coaching team can turn to. But it does really
spark enthusiasm for that tour. The Lions tours magic. Aren't
they touring fans and Australia. It's going to really put
rugby on the map. Give me an early prediction.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
I think the Lines win two one. I know there's
been a little bit of hyph about the Wallabyes and
their improvements. Yes they have improved, but I still think
the Lions when they come together will be too good
to test. I think the Wallabies will snag one. Ideally,
you know it's one all heading into the final game
we get a cracking decider.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, I agree. I think the Lions have a really
good leading.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
They play Argentina and then they have that match against
the ANZAC combined New Zealand an Australia team as well
as Super Rugby, so they're not going to be coming
in colds.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
They play.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
The first Test is in sun Court, which is a
traditional stronghold for the Wallabies.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
I think they'll get what the Wallabies will get snagged
one test, but the balance of the Lions squad, the depth,
it's a strong coaching team.

Speaker 4 (26:35):
I think the lines get it done.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Top of number three in the final four. An exclusive
from friend Christy Dorian, friend of the podcast last week's
deducing that the Western Seaward of the United States has
been lined up as a twelfth home for a super
rugby team and then the twenty thirty Nations Cup potentially
final but potentially being held in New York. I guess

(26:57):
on a super rugby front, Liam, what do you make
of that?

Speaker 3 (27:01):
No? Thanks, yeah, Look, I fully understand and appreciate the
financial of the States. If you crack one percent of
that market, got your maid. And that's why the Rugby
World Cup will be held there. That's why the All
Blacks will play on in Chicago there and they've played Fiji,

(27:23):
and why other nations are going there. The state that
the NRL has taken their opening weekends at to Vegas.
So it's very attractive financially, but the rugby depth is
not there, and a startup team makes me very anxious,
very nervous. We've seen the pitfalls of that. With Super
Rugby in the past, it's just finding its feats. It's

(27:46):
been a brilliant competition this year. I don't want to
see the mess with that.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
I don't either. I don't think this is what the
public is crying out for. And they talk about putting
fan first and fans centric everything like that. No one,
apart from maybe a few rugby fans in America, are
crying out for a US Super Rugby team.

Speaker 5 (28:07):
I would prefer to.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
See the return of the Hawaidis, which brings its own
logistical complications, but at least you can probably guarantee there
from the get go they are going to be competitive
and going to bring some rugby value to the competition.
I just do not see what value this American thing has.
And they're desperate strymake at work, because there are reports
week or two back that they were considering flipping the

(28:29):
World Cups around from the twenty thirty one, which is
when they're supposed to the Men's Rugby World Cup, to
twenty thirty five, and putting the United Kingdom in Ireland
in for twenty thirty one. That's not going to happen,
but they're desperate to make it work, but no one
seems to really know the answer, so they're throwing shit
at a wall and going, oh, super Rugby team work
a Nation's Cup final. I don't really care about the
Nation's Cup final. That's fine, I can abide with that.

(28:52):
But the Super Rugby team is a long term investment.
We've just got Super ud back to a point where
it can build from the last thing it needs is
having you know, the La guilteenies or someone back in
the comp and pulling it down again. And you've got
eighty yearal blowouts every time you go and play in
La or wherever it might be. I just think this
is a misstep. They're desperate to make America work, but

(29:14):
no one's really knowing, not sure how it can actually work.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Super Raby doesn't need to be a sacrificial lamb for
those World Cups. And yeah, there are grave concerns for
the Men's World Cup in particular and the interest that's
going to generate and the revenue needed to fund particularly
Tier two nations, but that's not Super Rugby's problem.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
That's World Rugby's problem.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
And yeah, you can't manufacture a team overnight, and there
aren't direct flights to Argentina, there are to the west
coast of the States, so that makes sense. But from
a competitiveness point of view, when this year's competition has
been engaging the jeopardies there, Australia's stepped up, there's been upsets.

(30:02):
It's everything you want from a competition. Don't take that
away just as it's finding its feet.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
That's right. I think we're an ingredients on that one topic.
Number four. In New Zealand rugby post a nineteen point
five million dollar losses but record levels of revenue. This
probably came is not really a surprise, but you know
it's a flashing figure up in lights.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Nineteen point five million dollar loss? Not a good scenario
of New Zealand rugby? Who I think it posted three
consecutive losses in a row. Now we know the money's
coming in, it's where it's going, is the question mark.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, there's a bit to unpack here. Some of that
loss is due to the Enios sponsorship and they pulled
money out of the States and lost on the currency
the timing of that. But it is concerning and one
of the concerns is the massive investment that they made

(31:02):
in New Zealand Rugby plus the platform itself. I think
something like eleven million dollars has gone to that over
the past two and a half years, maybe even more,
and I would argue haven't seen a return on that investment.
So the other concern is money going out the door
to Silver Lake and the percentages that the players and

(31:24):
the provincial unions take. Those figures aren't sustainable and like
you say, when you're bringing in record revenue, you should
be in a better state. So there's going to be
a bit of a come to Jesus moment in the
near future for New Zealand rugby arounds where their money
goes because they're still spending more than they earn essentially members.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Last time you logged into insit up plus the World Cup,
so what's that two years? It's Look, we are coming
from a different perspective than a fan. We're coming through
as broadcasters and journalists into it. But I just don't
see the value proposition there for fans. I guess it's
being modeled on the Premier League sort of things. You've

(32:07):
got me United TV and then Liverpool Plus and all
those sort of things, and they pump out a lot
of content and you feel connected to the club and
there's a real fandom that I just don't know that
New Zealand Rugby has that same proposition as a Premier
League club or the connection there, And that's always going

(32:27):
to be the issue for getting sign ups and getting
people logging in and watching these things, is that there's
no real three to sixty five day days a year,
twenty four to seven connection like you do with a
Premier League club and that sort of fandom.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
You're not really driving traffic on a regular basis, and
I think the only real way to do that is
if they were streaming live games and packaging content around that,
whether that be shows or news or those sorts of
things need to complement it because what they are currently
producing is not going to bring in the audience.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
That's right, and live games well, then money comes from
broadcasting rights, so a lot of the money. So they're
not going to put these games up for free. Whatever
it might be. It's stuck putting a rock and a
hard plays. I just don't know where it goes to,
and that's going to be the fascinating thing. Maybe in
the new visual broadcast deal, there's no NPC on Sky

(33:22):
or design or whoever picks up the rights and maybe
ends it up. Plus can broadcast in partnership with some
of these unions and you get a bit of go
forward there. That's maybe an avenue down the track, but
at the moment it feels like it's treading water.

Speaker 5 (33:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I think whether it's NPC or New Zealand, MALDI or
or Blacks fifteen or something, I think there needs to
be some form of live component or something to drive
greater audiences, because otherwise it's not going to get off
the ground.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
Let's get into our tipping in. Look a shopping week
for you. Nick Neuly put in the tips for you
word with Nicole, the drawer, the Tars, the Crusaders. There
might have been some noop. You can go listen back
and stitch up to fit the Brumbies though, So you
did get one that week, thirty five points and a
half year on, I picked all four, so that's good news. Blues, Reds, Chiefs, Brumbies.

(34:13):
So I've got a forty three and a half score
at eight point lead.

Speaker 4 (34:16):
Lucky.

Speaker 3 (34:17):
The Crusaders are timing their tank, so I'll be catching
up soon enough.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Friday night, the Hurricanes do the Highlanders derail the cane
train at sky Stadium.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
No they did not.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
I think even now resident Highland as man Paul Cully
might have even given up way with the white flag,
given up hope for this one.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
I think it's hard to see the Highlanders winning that.
I'm going to Hurricanes Waratars Crusaders nine to thirty five
in Sydney, both teams missing their first choice fullbacks. Joseph
of course, I saw Elite you out for the war Retars,
will Jordan out for the Crusaders. Crusaders haven't done too
well in Sydney in recent times. Do they bounce back?

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Look, I've always liked the Tars Elliott, but I am
gonna tip the Crusaders.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I am as well. I picked the Blues are task.
I think it will be I think it will be tight.
I think it will be to it was tight last year.
They blew it after the siren with the the conversion
of where it was Fiji and drew hosting the Force
on Saturday afternoon. The Drawer seems to have had a
real run of home games in recent times, and they

(35:21):
will entertain the Force at Churchill Park in Lataka.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
I think the Drawer because it's in Lawatoka afternoon game
and they just have to produce something at some point,
don't there.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
They do match around from the new Zalm perspective. Anyway,
mo Waa Pacifica against the Blues five ye seven, Big
playoff implications at North Harbor Stadium, the home of Mowana Pacifica.
Brie will be going on before the game.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
It will be happening and the Blues are going to
crash the party unfortunately American.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
I'm going to go Majana for an upset to get
the playoff mix rolling again and Brumbies and Reds around
us out for around fourteen on Saturday nights.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
I'll go to Brums at home.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I'm going to go the Reds for an upset Liz Kis.
Because we trust Kiss, we trust MVP Medal voting time.
I'll remind you the lead artist save he has a
six point buffer. Indeed he does in the official Super
Rugby's medal standings as well. Boden Baron on thirteen, Will
Jordan on nine your three two ones Limb.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
I'm going to go Wallace to Tt Elliott's.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
He was very very impressive in his first start with
there for the Chiefs, Hoskins the two too. I think
he's starting to really build in some form that that
Blues loose Ford trio, Dolden Popo Leese Yes starting to
come to the four as well. And Quenter Payer I
mentioned earlier. I think he uppointed David Havilli, so he's

(36:46):
had a breakout season. I think it's been three years
since he played for the All Blacks and as it
stands with events on Leonard Brown aw the MIXX, he
bear my ole Black squad.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Well, there you go, that's a bit call. We need
to do our All Blacks squad at some point as well,
do it in the coming weeks before we wrap up
things though. Great pleasure to be joined on rugby derick
by Bryce Heem Blues midfield who announced it retirement a
couple of weeks ago from the professional game, had any
number of clubs. He played forty two games for the
Blues in the end, but started his career at Auckland

(37:17):
in the NPC, then played for Northland Tasman, had a
stint with the Chiefs, back to Auckland after that the
Worcester Warriors too long, then to the Blues for that
forty two game stint rounded out his career with Auckland,
had a stint with the New Zealand seven side. As all,
Bryce Heam has done it all and we chatted with
him Bryce team big welcome to rug pea direct thanks
for coming in, no, thank you for having me. Happy

(37:38):
to be here. Well a few days or a week
or so since you announced your retirement to Cappy in
your decision and enjoying retired life.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it was a I guess, tough
decision to come to. In the end, my hand was
kind of forced, no pun intended for the rest of injury.
But yeah, enjoying retirement, gone into mortgage broking and enjoying
the new gig, enjoy not waking up sore every morning.
And yeah, yeah it's been good so far. Nice.

Speaker 3 (38:08):
I think you had fourteen years, three countries, seven teams.
You've got got around.

Speaker 5 (38:19):
Thanks for putting it so kind.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
It's obviously hard to boil that down. But what are
are you general reflections of your career?

Speaker 5 (38:34):
Yeah, I guess, yes, somewhat of a journeyman, but I
don't look back on the career with any regrets of
you know, staying in one place and because yeah, the
people I got to meet were amazing, especially you know
overseas as well, a lot of foreigners as well, and

(38:55):
you know, like minded people coming together to in a
foreign space and then you know, having that in common
and you know, I guess developing some pretty special relationships
is pretty cool stuff that you wouldn't get if you
just stayed in New Zealand. And then you know, getting
to fully immerse yourself into different cultures as well, which

(39:17):
is which is pretty special and something that me and
my wife always wanted to go and do. But yeah,
it's taken me all over the show of my career
and yeah, I've got no regrets when I look back
on it now.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
Yeah, obviously New Zealand, France and England.

Speaker 3 (39:33):
I want to I see about France in particular because
it is a very different rugby experience, particularly with the
you know, like the ownership model and you're at too
long with what's his name?

Speaker 4 (39:45):
Probably yeah, but that pronunciation, but.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Either but yeah, I'm not sure if you there when
Jewels was there, but just you know, if you compare
it to New Zealand, and we do have private investment,
but it's very hands off. But when you've got one
owner quite demanding, come in the sheds and barat players publicly.
Sometimes what's the environment like and how different is it

(40:14):
both stylistically and in terms of having a hands on owner.

Speaker 5 (40:20):
I guess for me, when I came into Toulon, Mourad
was sort of on the way out and there was
a new owner coming in and so I didn't get
to I guess really experience everything. I guess that the
that was advertised about Maurad, especially everything that happened with Jewels,
and when I got there, Jewels was still there. Mauraud

(40:41):
was on the way out, so it all sort of
died down by the time I got there. Then with
the new owner, he was amazing. I had a great
experience there, and I think when I look back at it,
we were pretty lucky that he did come on board
with COVID and everything that came up, because a lot

(41:03):
of clubs went under or when getting paid and things
like that, whereas he, you know, he honored the contracts
and and kept paying us and there was that was huge.
And yeah, I would put the house on it there
if Miratus saw there, they wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
How did that move come about? Because you're at Worcester
at the time and then went across to Toulon.

Speaker 5 (41:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I had done about four and
a bit years in England and and loved my time there,
loved the club. You know, we went that successful on
the field, but off the field, we we got after
it and we had a lot of fun and and
you know, met some great people, made some great mates,
and I think we were just ready for a change.

(41:49):
And we've always wanted to try and learn a new
language and and go into a different a different culture.
And you know, France was always quite appealing to us,
and there was an opportunity to go there and play
rugby and you know, and and some good money and
and you know, enjoy a different lifestyle. We were all
all up for it. So something came across across my table,

(42:12):
and yeah, we jumped at it. It was awesome. It
was awesome. You know, forty five minutes from Sentrepez on
the in the south coast of France. It doesn't doesn't
get better.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Yet, it sounds right, how good?

Speaker 3 (42:28):
Fourteen years it's a it's a lifetime in many respects.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
You know, you grow up.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
From a boy to a man, you travel with the world,
you start a family, what are some of your big
lessons big takeaways from that time? And I guess life
in the spotlight, because growing up in the spotlight is
not easy for everyone. You know, you make a lot

(42:53):
of mistakes. Well, some people make mistakes. We all no
one's perfect. What what what would be some of your
big lessons big takeaways from from I guess life around Rugby.

Speaker 5 (43:05):
No. I guess I was lucky in the censor as
I wasn't like and such a big spot as to
some other guys. You know that they're a lot, a
lot more successful anti Eureko's and and people like that,
for example. But I think the best thing you can
do in that sort of environment, especially right if you
are a global superstar, is such a young age. Then

(43:28):
that support network around you is probably the biggest thing,
because yeah, you got young, young shoulders and the young
head on them, right, and there's there's just so much
that you don't know. There's so much that's unknown, and
you need one a good agent, I think, to help

(43:48):
you out, help navigate contracts, decisions, all that sort of stuff.
And then good good family, good friends around you as well.
That's probably the biggest biggest thing for me and I was.
I was very fortunate in that department with my agent
and Dan Kane and and then with my family and
my partner as well, So that would be the biggest

(44:12):
one for sure. And I guess try not to get
caught up in the hype of it all, if that
makes sense. I constantly had to remind myself why I
I wanted to do this and why I loved playing rugby,
And it always comes back to their grassroots footy. You know,

(44:33):
you're playing with mates, you enjoy beer after the game,
and you're all about trying to win something together and
enjoying each other's company. And sometimes it's easy to get
caught up into maybe like the politics of footy and yeah,
and forget sort of why you started playing. And I

(44:53):
think that goes to everybody as well, you know, coaches included,
not just players. And yeah, from the start, I always
told myself, lif if it came to it and you
started to not enjoy the footy, then it was time
to walk away. So I always made sure that I
enjoyed my craft, enjoyed going to work every day, and enjoyed,
you know, putting in the hard yards as well for

(45:15):
the team.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
If we get back to the start of your career.
You played a bit for the New Zealand seven So
I was that on the radar when you first got
into professional rugby or was it do you get the
shoulder tap from Titch? Did you wanted to play sevens?

Speaker 5 (45:27):
No? I guess I'd always wanted to just do fifteens.
Sevens never never really crossed my mind. I guess I
always watched it, you know, and so many legend of
the game have gone through the avenue. It wasn't until
I think I played my first game against the New
Zealand Barbarian Oh no, for the New Zealand Barbarians against
New Zealand Maldi. And it was pretty much after that

(45:49):
game that Titch gave me a call and said, do
you want to come over? Come over go. I never
thought about it. I jumped at the opportunity and GZL
was an awakening. What is this?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
What were training sessions of the famous as his training sessions?
You know how much he'd put the players through? What
would they like render us?

Speaker 5 (46:10):
You know? But as bad as they were, then they
they make you resilient. Yeah, you can never be broken
mentally after after you endure a camp with touch for sure.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
But fifteen's was yourmate goal because you finished sevens went
to the Chiefs.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
Is that right? Yeah, Yeah, that's right. Yeah, And I
guess I always wanted to go traveling as well. I
always wanted to go live overseas, and I guess in
terms of playing footy overseas, sevens isn't really something you can,
I guess, make a career out of unless you get
to travel with New Zealand Sevens and whatnot. But it's
not the same when you know, you get to fully

(46:49):
immerse yourself into another culture and live there. And so
I guess that was probably one of the main drivers.
And yeah, when when it did come about, yeah we're
we're all ready to go.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
It was pretty exciting, one hundred percent sure on this.
But watch you, sir, they still around.

Speaker 5 (47:08):
They are just about to make a comeback, right. I'm
not too sure what division it is, but yeah, things
back on the move too. You had to come back
into footy.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Yeah right, so they collapsed and potentially coming back. So
obviously you spent time there, what did you stay in
touch with people? You know during that time? And I
guess it is a pretty challenging climate for rugby They're
not alone with Wasps, you know, Glamour Club in England
going under and other clubs around the world. So what

(47:41):
was it like for people you knew and having been
in at a club like that to watch a club
go through that experience.

Speaker 5 (47:48):
Yeah, it was pretty It was pretty sad, to be honest,
because mainly for that community as well, like rugby was
so big to the town of What's you know, you'd
get twelve to fifteen thousand every game and for that
just to disappear for them would have been heartbreaking because
there were such loyal fans. And then in terms of
the players, a lot of them came out okay there,

(48:12):
you know, there were decent enough players and they've got
contracts elsewhere. A lot of them went to Bath. A
lot of my close mates went to Bath. But then
a lot of other guys ended up just just going
and starting there the next next job, the next venture,
I guess, which was yeah, pretty gutting after especially if

(48:34):
you're a young kid and you've worked so hard and
gone through the academy and you've promised all these different
things and then all of a sudden it just comes
to an end. Yeah, it was pretty Yeah, just sad,
I guess, because yeah, like I say, you work hard
for something and then it's just taken from you and
it's completely outequate or your control.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, I guess we can feel a bit insulated from
it here, but you look around the world with wasps
and wacestern Melbourne Rebels and the States, it's a lot
more common these days, so pretty hard to watch on talking.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
I've talked to Brad Shields.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
About has experience as well, and yeah, a lot of
those guys got left in the lurch, so not good to.

Speaker 5 (49:14):
See, no no, And then I guess it becomes a
flooded market too, and then so then yeah, it becomes
a lot harder for everyone to get jobs playing footy.
And I think a lot they were renegotiating contracts. We're
getting a lot less than what they were, you know
originally on just because they could get you know, whoever

(49:37):
it might be for a lower prices. Does the job
just as good.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
When you came back to New Zealand, were you expecting
to play rugby and New Zealand again because you left
too long for family reasons came back to New Zealand.
Was it always on the agenda that you wanted to
play in New Zealand again and play for whether at
NPC or Super or.

Speaker 5 (49:56):
Yeah, I guess I well, I actually I think once
I was in France, I was like, Okay, let's you know,
it's going to be a good life here. Let's let's
just finish up here. And that was the plan. But
then yeah, my old man got lung cancer and so
so wow, there's no point hanging around because you know,
it's just never know what's going to happen with lung cans,

(50:18):
even though it was only stage three at that stage,
and it's just yah, a no brainer to come home.
And so when I left, I didn't have a contract
to come back to. I was just like, I'm just
going to get home and I'll figure it out. Yeah.
And I was lucky enough to have a good relationship
with with Lea McDonald and I messaged him and I

(50:38):
was just like, hey, mate, I'm coming back to New Zealand.
I'll be around if you need him one to jump
in for trainings or whatever. And then yeah, he was like, oh,
Jim might have a spot. I was like, oh jezus bloody. Also,
because as it worked out there, I was lucky that
I had a MiQ spot which was horrendous as well.

(51:01):
We did two weeks in a small little hotel room
with my twenty month old little girl. It was like,
oh yeah, it was terrible. Felt like a prisoner. You'd
get let out for for some yard time and go
walk around unitech and in a paddock which was which
was so weird. Yeah, back into the cage. Yeah yeah. Yeah.

(51:24):
The only good thing was you didn't have to cook
meals delivered, so yeah, that that that was what happened.
I think it was choc o'batas from Argentina. Yeah, he
was meant to come over but he couldn't get it
in my Q spot and then so I probably owe
him a few beers. Yeah. Yeah, that was a little

(51:47):
mailbik for um for sure. So yeah, it all sort
of just worked out my clockwork in the end. But yeah,
when I left, I had no idea what was going
to happen.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
To be honest, how do you look back at that
Blues experience because you came back obviously with it, not
knowing you'd be playing again to effectively becoming their first
choice in the midfield, you know, and you rose at
the ranks really quickly. How do you look back at that,
I guess that stage of your career.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Yeah, I guess I'm pretty pretty proud of it, to
be honest. I guess when I left New Zealand, I
only had a year of super under me, and I
guess while I was away, I always sort of wondered
if I could keep up with the pace of the
game back here and still compete with the boys back here,
And I guess after doing it, I'm yeah, I'm happy

(52:35):
that I got that opportunity and the way that everything
worked out to come back and finish at home in
Auckland around friends and family and just to sort of,
I guess, get that monkey off my back in a
way as well. And yeah, and then winning a title
pretty very awesome and get chills now just thinking about it.

(52:57):
So yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Did you feel you're close to All Black selection in
twenty twenty three at all, because it felt like you're
playing some outstanding rugby that year and there was all
sorts of questions at the it's midfield. Did you feel
like you were in the mix? U? No, No, not really.

Speaker 5 (53:15):
I think I always knew that my my age was
always going to play against me, no matter how well,
I played, and I get that, you know, I guess
I had my chance to hang around and try and
make All Blacks and whatnot, and I chose to go overseas. So,
you know, as much as I loved the hype around

(53:36):
it and you know, and hearing people say such nice
things about me, I said, always knew in the back
of my mind that it was probably never gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
You didn't play for the All Blacks fifteen though, that
that would have been you did, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
A nice experience.

Speaker 5 (53:49):
Yeah, yeah, that was awesome to wear, you know, another
black jersey and you'd go away and travel as I
think I was the oldest player about seven years or something,
but I was happy to be there. And I think
I i Leon again for that one as well, maybe
just to bring an old head along just to I

(54:11):
don't know, get the young boys and.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Get them homework, talk us through the Blues title because
it was a ride was twenty years and yeah, you know,
think twenty one year. Leon came in and certainly improved
the team drastically, and then Vyn comes in and wins

(54:36):
it in his first year. But just the culbination of
leading up to that winning the title, the celebrations, the
monkey off the back, what what was that like?

Speaker 5 (54:48):
Yeah? Yeah, So I came back in twenty one and
I think we won the Trans Tasman that year, and
I think for everyone, like it was awesome to win something,
but it didn't feel like a championship, I guess, and
it seemed like no one else counted that as well.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
As fans.

Speaker 5 (55:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, prime example. But yeah, and then I
guess to continue form and to keep competing well as
a team. We knew we were thereabouts and what we
needed to do, but then for whatever reason, just kept

(55:31):
falling short. And yeah, like you say, Leon was a
big part of getting the team to to where it was,
and then then came in and just perfected a few
things here and there with a different, different mindset, I guess,
which got us across the line. And yeah, to keep
falling shorter, bloody kept hurting, especially that year where we
pretty much went undefeated, and then to get pummeled in

(55:54):
the final was pretty hard because I don't think any
of us in that team thought we were going to lose.
And then, yeah, the Crusaders just kept tipping us over
and you'd be happy as punishing. What lessons did you
take then from from twenty two and twenty three when

(56:15):
you did fall short as a team into twenty four
with the valuable lessons about what it meant to play
finals footy or semi final footy that you could put
into that campaign that eventually came. Right. Yeah, I guess
that the what's happened before counts for nothing, you know,
and whatever was done then needs to be intensified, you know,

(56:38):
by a thousand to get the job done. You can
never write another team off and just expect that it's
going to go the way that it did before. And
I guess that's sort of what happened last year as well.
We knew that we were never there through the season.
You know. It took us, I guess, to all the

(56:59):
playoffs to really figure out our game and how we
were going to play it and what teams really struggled with,
and to perfect it in the final was amazing, you know,
And granted, you know, the Chiefs were pretty banged up
from their semi final, but still it was a pretty
convincing win. And I don't think there was a player

(57:21):
on that field that didn't play well for our team.
Everyone just knew their role, nailed it, and I guess
that was a difference in the end, everyone just nailing
their role inside and out.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Really, do you feel there are parallels to the season
because there has been the Blues best season so far,
But as it stands, with a couple of two or
three weeks to go, they're right in the playoff mix
again despite probably not hitting their straps yet over the
course of the season. Do you feel that this campaign
might be able to be similar to last year?

Speaker 5 (57:49):
Yeah, well, they've given themselves a chance, right, and yeah,
it hasn't not by any means, been a pretty season.
But then, like I just said, playoffs is a different beast, right,
They've still got a two more games before the playoffs
to really nail everything else. It looks like, you know,
things are staying to come together. You know they've been

(58:13):
They've had horrific injuries all through the team throughout the
season and to try and get like a consistent twenty
three together it has been quite quite difficult. But at
the same time, it's been awesome to see some of
the young boys come through and do really well and
put their hand up So you know that only does
wonders for a club as well, especially when you're going

(58:34):
into playoffs and you need everyone in the team. So yeah,
I've got big hopes for them, and it looks like
things are staying to come together. So let's hope that,
you know, it could be a back to back, but
we'll see.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
Can you give us a bit of an insight, take
us inside the sheds, you know what it is like
to win a title, particularly when it's been that long,
when there's players in that team, coaches that have managers
that have been there through it all, you know, Friby
and the like, and what did it mean to you?
And we did at rank and all the next few
days like.

Speaker 5 (59:09):
Oh yeah, I guess it's up there, you know, at
the top for me in terms of achievements in my career. Emotionally,
it was awesome to do it for everyone like you mentioned,
you know, Richard Frye, our manager has been there for
I think this is eleventh year, and all those other boys,
you know, Rico one hundred odd games, Paddy Akira, all

(59:33):
those boys that have been there for so long, and
I guess especially in the hardy years as well, where
you know they they weren't nearly as good as what
they were when Leon came through, and they've done all
those hard yards and so to finally have something to
show for it, it was awesome to be able to
give to them, to give to the club and mainly
the fans as well. I reckon those ones that have

(59:54):
been loyal with us over there twenty one year drought
and finally get it back. It was amazing. The celebrations
were unbelievable. I think everyone just felt like a huge relief.
The aftermath, I won't go into too much. I don't

(01:00:15):
that I could remember too much either.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
The Highlands party at Tony Brown's party recoas maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:00:25):
Like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
You weren't playing at the time, but obviously it was
your last Blues game. So is it special in the
way that that was the last time you wore the Blues?
Juicy on a Parker is winning a championship?

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. I guess you know,
you couldn't have written the narrative any better really, And then,
funny enough, my last game total was Upper Northland at
the tunny Fow and that's where I played my first
one against New Zealand Maldic So that was pretty cool. Cool,
But you had to finish with the championship. It was

(01:00:59):
a massive Yeah one d you can look back at
it and be happy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
The hands was always you're hoping to get back out
this year or just did you know?

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
Or I sort of knew, like there was so much
uncertainty around it. I guess, so meeting with the specialists
the surgery that was required, there was no guarantees that
it was going to be successful. They had a pretty
low success rate. And then during NBC, I was trying

(01:01:29):
to keep playing, and I was on having to take
painkillers for training for games, and I had the seroid
injection as well, and still having to take painkillers, and
I say, oh, this, this just isn't really a way
to live. And yeah, I guess maybe if I hadn't
won that title, it might have tried to push a

(01:01:52):
bit harder to try and get back. Maybe that's hard
to say, No, it's hindsighted, yes, but sorry, where was
I the the risk? Yeah, I guess just didn't you
have any s into around my ability to come back
and play, and the quality of life just wasn't there.

(01:02:14):
And so in the end, I guess it was kind
of an easy decision because, yeah, young kids and all that.
So I've got to think about them as well and
put them first. And it's nice now not to be
sore every day, and you can play with them the
way that I've always wanted to and with less aches
and pains, So that's always good as well being.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
If we talk post career transition, it can be scary
intimidating because it's not just the playing and the camaraderie
that you lose, but there's a lot of wrap around
support for a rugby player, whether it be nutrition or
you know, gym. Everything's organized from a travel perspective. And

(01:02:59):
then the taps turned off almost overnight, Right, So how's
that been for you?

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
How have you navigated it?

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
And how long we planning your post career transition?

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
Yeah, I guess I had been. I sort of always
knew that I needed to do something or have something
in the pipeline for when rugby came to an end,
and I guess I didn't really know what I wanted
to do until I came back to New Zealand and
after meeting with a few people. I always had always
been interested in property, but didn't have enough money to
be a developer. Yeah, especially an awkward so that was

(01:03:36):
ruled out pretty quickly. I didn't want to do real
estate because I wanted to have weekends back after fourteen
years of not having any for a while. There's a
long time. And then I met a few people that
were in the finance industry doing mortgage broking, and you know,
they sort of painted the picture to me, and I

(01:03:56):
really liked the sound of it. You know, the ability
to have been able to help people get into first homes.
You know, if they get into trouble with debt, you
can help them consolidate back into their home if they
need it, and all just like these different ways that
you can, I guess, help help people. And that was

(01:04:17):
a big, big motivator for me. And then also I
guess my time being away overseas whenever I was trying
to buy a property back here, just so far out
of the loop when you're not living in the country,
and then I guess, yeah, I thought that could be
a cool, a cool way to help the other boys
that are living overseas and if they needn't help, I'm here,

(01:04:40):
I've been through it and sort of help people learn
from my mistakes that I had made in my property journey.
So that was a big part of the career choice
after footy. The transition is pretty scary, Like you say,
you know, everything's sort of provided for you, and then
the TAP's just turned off, and it's still scary now,

(01:05:01):
even though you know I'm in the job and things
are going well and I'm enjoying it, it's still yeah,
it's STI pretty nerve.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
It's a big, big changer at fourteen years and then
then it's.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
Gone, yeah, yeah, one hundred. But also the Blues have
been really really supportive as well. You know, they've tried
to introduce me to different people to help grow a
network and talk to different people about you know, their
learnings from their business adventures and and all all that

(01:05:33):
sort of stuff. So it's they haven't just left me
in the dark and said goodbye, you know, though they're yeah,
they're they're always there to to pick up the phone
and call and help. So they've been amazing in the transition.
So the tap you know, is still dripping a little,
which is great.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
You the kind of person that wants to put your
hand in coaching or media or anything like that, and
in terms of rugby or are you happy to draw
a line under it and you're playing careers.

Speaker 5 (01:06:03):
I don't know if i'd ever go into try and
go professional coaching. I think I've seen the guys you know,
and it's it's a full time job. You take it
home with you, it's it's never ending, and I think
I'd enjoy having the breakaway from it completely. I'd love
to be able to give back to the community at

(01:06:26):
some stage, the rugby community, whether that's going back to
club and coaching there or helping out around the local
rugby club or something like that. That'd be awesome. But yeah,
in terms of a professional scense, I don't. I don't
think that's me. But I still try to stay connected
with all the boys, go on and every now and
again and say hi, and it's awesome to have the

(01:06:47):
connection still because yeah, like you said, Liam, there would
be the biggest part that you miss is that camaraderie
and you know, all the friendships that you've made and
all the stuff you've been through as well. But yeah,
there's I don't think there's a future for coaching for
me anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
We've got a few final ones to finish up on.
Who would you label the best coach you played under
professional amateur whatever it might be.

Speaker 5 (01:07:14):
Um ooh, I think my time in the Chiefs was
pretty pretty awesome. You know, that was my first super
rugby team, and they taught me a lot. In terms
of Dave Rennie and Wayne Smith. You know, I guess
everyone's got amazing things to say about Wayne Smith, and

(01:07:36):
I agree with every one of them, because yeah, he
has a different a different beast. Really, the way he
thinks about the game and the way he approaches it
to get you to think about it as well is
pretty special. So yeah, I learned a lot there and
I think that helped put me in good stead for
the rest of my career.

Speaker 3 (01:07:56):
Double banger hair our favorite teammate and will go hardest opponent.

Speaker 5 (01:08:02):
Oh, hardest opponent. I'd probably go Joshua toosover Man just
raw power, unbelievable skill. Yeah, but then like you can't
be angry at him because he's the nicest guy. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah,

(01:08:26):
he'd be up there so hard to tackle, so strong,
and you know he can beat you so many different ways.
You know, step here, you can run straight through if
you want.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
You played fallback, wing, center, reckon, you can play loose
forward as well.

Speaker 5 (01:08:46):
Maybe not the same way that Josh or Bodier do.
Favorite player that I've played with, teammate, favorite teammate. Oh geez,
that's hopefully none of them listening really put me on

(01:09:06):
the spot.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
You can have two if you like.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
I think I think I'll go with Angus Tarvel's up there.
You know, he's he's been awesome for me since coming
home and since he came to the Blues, you know,
because I guess we're similar age, so it's nice having
someone that's in the same space of life with you.
And then he's just awesome to have around the team.
You know, he's always happy, he's good at motivating the boys,

(01:09:33):
and it's always keen to have a laugh, which I
really enjoy as well. We don't take ourselves too seriously,
and neither does Angus, you know. And yeah, yeah, Angus Tarvel.
There you go, mate.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
And finally, we're two and a half years out, but
give us a prediction for the twenty twenty seven Rugby
World Cup. Who do you think wins it?

Speaker 5 (01:09:54):
Oh? Tough, tough. I'd like to think the All Blacks do.
But then I don't think you can write off the
likes of France and having played with some of those boys,
you know. I like what I see. They're quite similar
to South Africa in that respect as well, like big

(01:10:16):
forward pack and very skilful packs. So yeah, if it's
not the Abs or lock in France.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Nice Well, Bryce, I really appreciate you coming in and
having a chat with us. Best luck with the post
retirement career and congratulations on a great career.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
Yeah, thank you very much, thank you for having me on.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Yeah, thanks, look forward to seeing you down in the
local Auckland club breg we Seene in a couple of years.

Speaker 5 (01:10:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, coaching head on, maybe carrying some.

Speaker 4 (01:10:39):
Waters right afterwards, a few snags.

Speaker 5 (01:10:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
It's good to catch up with Bryce. He's got a
few jerseys, I'm sure in the Cup doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
He does Commonwealth Games silver medal and lots of jerseys
and plenty of fans and a very popular member of
the Blues. I think they called him uncle and cardor
towards it towards the end there. So yeah, I know
some of our friends and colleagues. He's had a lot
of hype around hem hive, so great to chat to him.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Yeah, well you mentioned that he didn't think you in
the back of his mind he was in the All
Blacks mix, but twenty twenty three in particular is playing
some very very good rugby. I don't know if he
was ever, you know, the All Blacks fifteen, maybe he
could have made the All Blacks, but great tales nonethelessons
Great to have Bryce on the podcast with us first week.
More interviews on the way here on Rugby Direct and
that'll do us for another week. Great to have you

(01:11:33):
back on board, Liam, and thanks to as always to
Last and Bars English were producing and Friends a Habit
health tackling all your aches and pains from sports and work.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
For more from news talks ed B Listen live on
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