June 8, 2025 • 40 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier react to the breaking news of Mark Robinson's impending departure as the chief executive of New Zealand and reflect on how he will be remembered and where to next.
We also wrap the week that was in a dramatic Super Rugby playoff round, with the Hurricanes gone and the Blues keeping their season alive but flipping the run to the trophy on its head.
We also examine the mooted R360 franchise concept and pay our respects to All Blacks great Stu Wilson.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
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Speaker 1 (00:29):
Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Heath, tackling all
your aches and pains from sports and work back for
another week Elliott Smith and Liam Napier. Plenty to get
stuck into. But first, some breaking news that has come
just before we kicked off our recording of Rugby Directs,
and that is New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson
to stand down at the ends of twenty twenty five. Liam,
(01:00):
your initial reaction to this newser There had had been
a few rumors in recent weeks that this was a
possibility and now it has been firmed that he's leaving
at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, big news is and Elliott the head of our
national sport moving on at the end of the year.
Has it's been a tumultuous six year tenure. I think
it's fair to say Mark Robinson coming in following Steve
Cheue two very different characters. Cho was a very dictatorial,
authoritative figure and Mark Robinson a different type of leader.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
He hasn't had it easy, but it has.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Been a There's been a lot of upheaval, hasn't There
COVID unprecedented pandemic, all the closures and the Super Rugby
upheaval that came out of that Silver Lake, the private
equity deal that's still in the balance about whether that
(01:58):
was a good move for the New Zealand game, and
of course the public fallout around Ian Foster and Robertson
that the appointment of the All Blacks coach, again unprecedented
coming during in the lead up to the twenty twenty
three World Cup. So some very big ticket items on
(02:20):
Mark Robinson's tenure. And I think there you mentioned the
whispers the rumors there. The riding had been on the
wall from the back end of last year when you
had a new New Zealand Rugby board coming, David Kirk
the new chairman, and everyone expected at some point he
would essentially push for change. We've also had the New
(02:44):
Zealand Rugby commercial co boss move on, Craig Fenton, and
I think there was always going to be a come
to Jesus moment where New Zealand Rugby wanted one group
CEO across those both those boards. So the commercial entity
of New Zealand Rugby and the rugby arm of the
New Zealand Rugby board and who that's going to be,
(03:04):
not too sure. What do you make of I guess
your initial reaction of the news and I guess your
reflections of he's not gone yet, but of his time
on Mark Robinson's time in the hot seat.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, I mean it hasn't come easy for Robinson. I
think compared to Steve Chu probably navigated a few less
challenges in the global game potentially, and that was exacerbated
by COVID nineteen. I mean Mark Robinson started the gig
in January of twenty twenty. The world was a completely
different place back then to where it is now. And
(03:39):
it feels like the game is still sort of getting
back on its feet a little bit after COVID, both
at super rugby level and an international level. The Silver
Lake deal, as you said, very much jury out still
as to whether that was a good idea and whether
New Zeale Rabya is seeing the benefits of what was
supposedly promised by silver Lake as a result of them
(04:00):
pumping that money into elements of the New Zealand game.
So he's seen a period of change and I think
the timing's probably right to have someone new come in
and accelerate that change, or even decelerate the change and
changed up a bit and look for different ways to
do things in the national game. I think, yeah, the
(04:21):
jury is probably out over his legacy is tenure. You know,
the pull away from South Africa is probably going to
be something that's attached to him. I know a lot
of New Zealand rugby fans view that period of Super
Rugby with South Africa with roast into glasses. It feels
like this year Super Pacific might have got to the
point where they envisioned it being when they first split
(04:42):
away from the South Africans. So ultimately, I think a
mixed period of legacy. And you know he's judged on
not only the on field results but also the off
field results, and I think on that point you probably
have to say very much a mixed tenure from Mark Robinson.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, and that would be reflected if you went out
to the heart blends of rugby and talked to the
provincial unions. If you talk to people about the way
in which Silverlac deal played out, about the all black
coaching appointment, and a lot of those situations are lose
lose from a public facing point of view, But at
(05:21):
times I think there could have been more strong, decisive
leadership of New Zealand game and I think that's what
they'll be seeking going forward with a replacement in time.
Just on your point about South Africa, I think there
has been an element of history being rewritten there. I
think South Africa always we're going to go that way.
(05:43):
COVID accelerated it, maybe it wasn't handled that well. And
even the friction, the tension with Australia about how many
teams I've had, well we've seen now that clearly they
couldn't afford or sustain five teams. So history does shine
a different light on things. I think Super Rugby is
(06:04):
more sustainable in its current format and.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
US would be nice to.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Have South Africa involved, But like you say, a bit
of rose into glasses there in some respects, and I
think they were always going to break away and go north.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
He's going to leave at the end of the year.
There's still a few things to be signed off before
he does depart. A new broadcast deal, the Women's Rugby
World Cup in England is still to take place. We
haven't had rugby's greatest rivalry. These tours against Africa are
basically they're in the schedule, but it hasn't been officially
announced that. The Club World Cup hasn't been officially announced,
the Nation's Cup schedule etc. Hasn't been officially announced. So
(06:41):
there's a fair bit of work to do before he
leaves the post at the end of the year, where
he apparently he's going to go join his family in
Australia who are based in Queensland. So very understandable for
from those reasons, but a bit of work to do,
I guess, you know some part of it and from
what I unerstand very well respected Mark Robinson around the
international boards, the international game, bring back tours, there's going
(07:03):
to be something that he can probably point to as
part of his legacy.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, it's some really big ticket items mentioned there. The
tours concept will be hugely popular once every four years
and the boom I guess in the Woman's game and
the Black Ferns will Cup this year and it sounds
like plans are in the works to really finalize a
(07:28):
strong calendar for the women's game in this country going forward.
So yeah, there are some positive steps taken there. And
as you mentioned, he is going to go join his
family in Queensland. He's got three kids, understand all you
want to link up there. But the big one there
is the broadcast steel. It sounds like Sky is offering
(07:51):
around eighty five million, which is a significant reduction on
previous years.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
New Zealand Rugby has.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Signed a number of different sponsorship deals in recent times
to plug potentially plug some of those holes. But that
is going to be really fundamental to funding every level
of the game. How that broadcast steal plays out.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Anyone stand out as a possible contender to take over
this job or is it going to be very much
an open such I.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Think it will be open slather to a degree. I
see it being a one, one group CEO, so you
will have I think you still have people at the
head of a commercial code board or in a New
Zealand Rugby board. But then there's an overarching helicopter figure
(08:38):
almost like a Director of Rugby type role, but in
a managerial position, somebody with strong business background but still
knows the rugby scene. So I don't think there's anyone
internally that jumps out, but it is going to be
a massive appointments and I think people like David Kirk
(09:01):
will have a big say in who that might be.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Indeed, watch the space say some breaking news out this morning,
can follow all the reaction on ZID, Herald, dot co
dot nz. Of course, let's get into the weekend that
was in Super Rugby and boy this took a turn,
didn't it. This weekend of Super Rugby qualifying finals, so
much of that last game being a dead rubber. We'll
get to what caused that in a moment or two,
but first and foremost, the Brumbies. Let's start backwards. Brumbies
(09:27):
beating the Hurricanes thirty five twenty eight, the cane train
that had been gathering momentum. It's a bit like New
Zealand's approach to rail. It's come to a grinding halt
and the Hurricane to be disappointed with this. Look the
Brumbies with a better team. I think on the night
the Hurricanes were with them, they led fourteen seven, but
(09:52):
something switched around the half hour mark, and it felt
like even before they went behind the school, they began
chasing the game. The Brumbies just began to get on
top of the armory so and didn't relent. And boy,
it was a game with fine margins and the Hurricanes
are probably disappointed with their discipline. Also, the air account
through that game.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, our friendship was is in jeopardy.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Actually, I was driving back from the tron and receive
a gift, a gift in the student night chat group
that Thomas the tank Engine's coming off the track.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
So it was not well received. It's fair to say
I think we'd have enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
No, No, I did not what it was the key
And then obviously you're you've you've you've seen the game,
and the Hurricanes we frustrated. Perhaps they didn't put their
best performance out and what turned out to be a
knockout game.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, I devastated.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
You could see Billy Proctor sitting on the posts post
final whistle carrefee very emotional post match, and that's just
deflating because, as you mentioned, the Canes had built a
lot of momentum from being in a real hole and
(11:02):
getting guys like Billy Proctor back were massive for them
and they had their draw and Perth knocked over the
Brumbies and the Chiefs and really did that. They came
into the finals probably as the form team and to
go to camera it's an incredibly tough place to win.
But defensively they let themselves down. The mall defense cost them.
(11:25):
They considered one really nice set try to Tom Wright,
but it just always felt like they were chasing the
game and yeah they could score points, still created a lot,
but defensively they were exposed. And yeah, they'll reflect on
that harshly because they set themselves up for a real
(11:46):
tilt and flopped. I think, you know, they'll be really
disappointed with the level that they got to because they
were much better in previous weeks.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
They were and this has been a bit of a
graveyard for them. Canberra in terms of ending their Super
Rugby season on a couple of occasions, whether their mindset
changed given it was a knockout game rather than seating
game for them, potentially, but it just felt like they
didn't get enough probably out of ten. I didn't think
(12:18):
on the weekend Britt Cameron that they moved him back
into teen with Ruben Love at fullback. Probably didn't get
enough how of brick Cameron and I thought Flanders and
duple coref He tried all nine and so did Larkeye,
but they were beaten I thought by the while other
Brumbies loose for Valentin, he had another outstanding night. You
(12:39):
know there's other loose for partners I thought were excellent
as well, and probably just been into the punch. We
didn't see Kreefy over the ball as much as we've
seen him in other games this season. We'll put him
those big hats and just didn't probably get the ascendency
up front.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You look credit to the Brumbies as well. They are
a good team and tough to beat in camera. And
this match was in stark contrast, wasn't it to the
other semi final. It was open, it was quite expensive,
it was high scoring and Canes just couldn't quite stick
with the Brumbies.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
It was very tip for tat.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
But yeah, just a couple of really bad defensive lapses
proved costly. And you're right, I didn't think they got
enough out of ten. There was some punch at times,
but little moments that made breaks and you know, bread
shields go through and just funnels the ball and then
little occasions like that where they couldn't quite make it stick.
(13:35):
So it's another early exit for the Canes, probably reflective
of where they are at in the New Zealand pecking order.
But having built that momentum into the finals they did.
It was very familiar of building up hope and then
letting the balloon down. So tough to take all.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Right, Let's move back to the Blues twenty Chiefs nineteen
Blues winning it after the siren in Hamilton. Liam, as
you mentioned you were there, I wouldn't say you had
a great seat for it, but given what I've seen
out of that media box, thanks Chet. Yeah, really good
thinks the media really appreciates it. Blues though stubborn nineteen
(14:19):
six down. I mean they were out of it really
at half time, but they went out of it. They
should have been at it at half time. The Chiefs
had so much ball, so much position in territory in
that first spell, and yet we're only leading what nine
to three at the break, and if Boden Barrett their
ball sits up or he can slide onto it and
score the try, then the Blues would have been a
hit against the run of play at halftime, but it
(14:41):
felt like the Chiefs a game of that a sentence
after the break. Nineteen six games should probably have been
locked away in a tight tuss all like that. But
as I said, the Blues a stubborn. They refuse to
give up. And it took all Lady three minutes, but
they keep this season alive. Very impressive performance. To keep
this season going.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
You want to results, I think first of all, I
want to touch on the Chiefs because bizarre tactics. They
played into the Blues hands by being so conservative by
crashing it one off the ruck, and even Verncotta postmatch
said those tactics surprise the Blues.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Really did, felt like.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
I feel like the Chiefs went into their shells a
bit and it did still work for them to a degree.
They blew I think five chances in the Blues red
zone in that first half dominated all position. They pretty
much set up camp and the Blues twenty two. There
was the quartz at Artema bounce of the ball that
didn't go his way, but there was I think it
(15:39):
was a Daniel Rona when Caleb Clark threw that brain
explosion of a quick throwing a couple of penalties, botched opportunities,
so the Chiefs could have been up a couple of
tries at halftime. The Blues actually looked more dangerous when
they had ball in hand. They lose Ricky Ricottelli and
(16:00):
the Chiefs don't really punish them for that. And then
as you mentioned there, the Bowden Barrett brilliance and could
have easily scored the Blues could.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Have been up at halftime.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
And before we go into the rest of it, just
on that boden Bar completely outplayed Damien McKenzie in a.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Match that matters.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
You know that this was a head to hea battle
and McKenzie was virtually other than goalkicking non existent. Boden Bar,
a very influential with his tactical kicking, would have should
have scored that try. Named Man of the match. So
really wiped the floor and McKenzie on his home patch.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, how much she ascribe to McKenzie's performance, the tactics
that you mentioned the change in that that it was
a very un chief slight performance from what we've seen.
Did they just go well, it's plat footy, we need
to play this way rather than doing what's worked for them.
The entire season.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, I just had a thought here, I'm just going
to blow my own trumpet, because a couple of weeks ago,
do you remember me saying the one team in Super
Rugby that could beat the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
This was after they pumped Winer was the Blues.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
As you did say that, yep, yeah, it's not even
the Hurricane.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, he did mention that, and that's because the Blues
forward pack and in their tactics it's built for finals rugby,
isn't it. And they've had tight tussles with the Chiefs
and Crusaders this year. But yeah, I just felt the
Chiefs that they had all that strike. I don't know
whether losing Antonina Brown and Quincy Pye changed their tactics somewhat.
They didn't win a confidence to use their back line,
(17:30):
but it was just so conservative and as you mentioned,
they're up thirteen points. It should have been shut the gate,
closed the game out, But the Blues incredibly resilient, aren't
They just to keep coming back, keep fighting, and it
was a real role reversal in that second half. They
set up camp in the Blues twenty two and it
did feel inevitable even when Hoskinsitutu denied that try.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
It was penalty.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Clark denied that try for and knocking it off.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, it was penalty after penalty and just wave after
wave of the Blues raiding the Chiefs line and what
a moment for Josh Berry to come off the bench
bus through. I think it was Arcoy's tackle, reach out
and score for young promising Locke, such an unlikely hero
right next to the post. And it was earlier in
(18:18):
the year March maybe when the Blues went down there
scored Xavier Taile, twenty year old kids hits the post
with a conversion. This time it's right next to the
posts and Boden Barrett throws the ball over and the
Blues steal it, and Ricco Ajani remains the chief protagonist,
shushing the crowd and hamming it up. So the Blues
(18:42):
probably the most hated team and Super Rugby, but they're
doing the business.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That's right. It's promotion for the game and if they
want to build that narrative around them, think great. I
think that's good for the game. And Rico Juani's done
a very very good job at doing so great to
see Cameron so far as all the images of Cameron
so far in hospital chearing his team on teep A
lot too mentioned the postgame their thoughts obviously with Cameron
(19:07):
so far as everyone's are as he goes through this
tough health battle. But the Blues, now, you know, they're
going with their tails up to this game in christ yet.
We'll get to the Crusader's reads at a moment. But
the Crusader's never lost a home game. Van Koda mentioned, well,
they've got to lose some time, he said, he.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Was asked about that, not yet his immediate response, and look.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
They came very close to doing so. But for a
James a Quanta penalty earlier in the season. The Crusaders
will go in probably his favorites. But boy, the Blues
will hid down there with their tails up. The things
that potentially could count against them. That six day turned
around for what was a very physical game. But when
you got that adrenaline and that momentum going, that may
(19:48):
not matter too much.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
It does feel like the Blues have nothing to lose,
you know, the defending champions, but they just snuck into
the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
It's been a.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Rubbish year really, from when you look at this squad
and where they came from and how dominant they were
to win that first title in twenty one years last
year and then yeah they scrape into the playoffs, everyone's
writing them off, nobody really gives them a chance. And
it's a similar theme this week really with as you
mentioned that the record down there in christ Church, most
(20:22):
people will be tipping the Crusaders, and so the Blues
maintain their underdog villain status or whatever you want to
call it, go down there and ye harness their internal
confidence and with the game that is built for finals rugby.
So what a match up to arch rivals. I would
(20:43):
like to see two selection changes from the Blues. I
know you don't change your warning formula, but I thought
Finlay Christie was relatively poor again drop the ball at
the base, there was a thinking one kick charge and
his kicking was a bit off. Tough of fol Nachi.
I would bring him back into the mix, even off
the bench, and zarh Sullivan for me, should be at
(21:06):
fullback from when you're playing that combative direct game and
you want to play territory just having his massive boot.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I looked at Corey Evans.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
He put up a couple of high kicks and went
to contest them very bravely, but didn't regather them. And
a couple of clearance kicks only made you know, ten
to twenty meters you put zar in the pocket, you're
looking at another forty. So those were two tweaks I
think the Blue should look at, but I'm not sure
they will.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
All soun Sullivan and Steph Pittferer become two of the
forgotten men of New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Well, parafest is injured, Yeah, but isn't he back?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
He's back? Doesn't he fit again? Or very close to
being fit?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Pretty close?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And again with the All Blacks looming, you know, not
much of a chance to show the WIRs. Let's go
into that Crusader's Reds game on Friday night. The Crusaders
just went to work. Really, the Reds failed to fire
a shot until the game was beyond them, and the
Crusaders I think can be relatively happy with the eighty
(22:09):
minutes they turned out. In fact, if you went into
that game, if your Rob Penny pretty much everything, you know,
they got through relatively injury free. From what I understand,
they could sub some of those players before the game
was done. It wasn't in the balance. Job done for
the Crusaders, and they took that box on Friday night.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
A lot of the talk from us and outside was
about the returner will Jordan, but the guy who had
the biggest impact on this game returning was Fletcher Newel
and the Crusaders scrum just ate the reds up to
Mighty Williams and Fletcher Neil Fletcher in particular, just went
to work and that's where their dominance started and they
(22:50):
just rolled on. It really was a procession and it's
what you expect, wasn't it from that matchup? Much tougher
quest this week, but as you mentioned, they are in
great shape to Mighty Williams.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Injury not too bad.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I don't think it's too bad. I's get a full
report on that, but I think it's okay, hopefully from
a Crusader's perspective, because he's I mean, he's on a
mountain of work this year. He switched to tight head
for a period of weeks with Fletcher Newell being out.
He's been excellent. I think for them. Tomody Williams the
season probably close to being their best player throughout the season.
(23:28):
Just what he's adding to his game a few times
he's slotted in a half back and showing a pretty
good pass, which I know is not his core skills,
but his scrummaging work has been excellent this season, and
really liking the way that he's going. So hopefully and
I haven't had update from Friday night, hopefully it's not
too bad in that perspective.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, big, big performer there, I thought, Christian Leo Werde
another standout performance from him. James O'Connor was quite patchy
off the bench, missed touch kick that was kick the
ball dead and another sort of knock on, so uncharacteristically
poor performance when he did come on there.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Big. Focused on the scrum this week.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think we've talked a bit about Josh for situr
and has you know rise this year while going up
against Fletcher. Massive task to stabilize that scrum because the
Crusaders clearly came from the Reds there and the Blues
value their set piece that they backed themselves and so
(24:32):
that's where this could be. One of the.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Blues had a few issues at scrum time on the
weekend and gets got popped up by Olie Norris on
one occasion. So yeah, that's going to be key part
of the game, isn't it. And we have our playoff set.
We'll get into some tipping very very shortly. But you
know the road to the title runs through christ Church,
which not many would have expected after that first weekend.
(24:55):
And what chance do you give the Brumbies of beating
the Chiefs in Hamilton? You mentioned the Blues have got
that style of game that can stop them. Well, the
Brumbies have got that prototype as well. You'd fancy the Chiefs,
but you know, the Brumbies are really in a similar
position to the Blues. They've got nothing to lose.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
It was just firstly on the Crusaders.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Look, it's the title to lose that with the rankings changing,
with them having the box that they're in the box
seat home advantage. Freezing in christ Church everything set up
from just on there. Where the hell was everyone?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
It was freezing.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
There's nobody there, mate, Like did you even care about
rugby and cushy cold mate? It was like two degrees
literally no one there. Yeah, what very very poor toun out.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Okay, that stadium is sucks shit for one, and people
cannot wait to get them the new stadium. Two They
were most likely to have a game the following week three.
That reads a huge draw card arrogance four.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
It was just cold, mate, I don't want to hear
it's cold, Okay, I get it's cold. It was cold
and Hamilton's it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Was cold and wheat and raining and there is nowhere
more miserable to be than that tin pot stadium.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Look, I understand that, but it was a terrible look
for a quarterfinal match to be played in front of
no one man when you've had so much success. Just
going back to the Brumbies, there are a live chance
the Chiefs need to play more rugby and their confidence
will be rocked by that. They blew it thirteen point
(26:24):
lead in the second half and they've got this finals yep, yep,
yeah hanging over them having lost to was three finals.
Really if you go back to Super rugby, alter and
a lot of pressure to try and send off CLAYT
McMillan in the right fashion, and yeah that was They're
(26:45):
very lucky to have to retain a home semi final
this week. But the Brumbies, if they played to their best,
are a real live chance.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Indeed, well we'll look forward to that this week in
commentary of both on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. Of course,
will take a break here on Rugby Direct. Come back
with the second half after this.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
This is Rugby Direct, a vodcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Every drive, drive and sixty secondary, tackle to tack, tackles,
get up, agaying you before time.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Lad, You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by Habit Health,
tackling all your aches and pains from sport and let's
get into the final four four rugby topics. Liam and
I discussed debate, et cetera, et cetera. R three sixty
A lot of hype coming out of the Northern Hemisphere.
Any prospect of this working? This franchise competition that supposedly
(27:41):
we've got some of the greats of franchise sport, the
NFL owners, the Premier League, the Formula One, they all
want a slice of R three sixty. Will we ever
see this actually take the field? This sounds a bit
Steve Hansen twelve?
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Was it twelve?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
The twelves. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Look, there's lots of these concepts around, but I think
the only way this skits off the ground if Mike
Tinlkin swindle some royals money because it's literally going to
take not small fortune to be able to bankroll it
and look as a disruptor as a means to get
(28:21):
rugby to think about things differently. It's not the worst
concept in the world, but oh, it's pretty close. I
cannot see it getting off the ground.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No, I just don't know where the desire is from
this Sevens are battling at the moment. It's very Sevens
like concept, and they go around the globe. We're going
to bring all the best players in there. Well, the
Sevens isn't working. And when you've got no connection, where
do the home fans go? You know, take it to Argentina,
to take it to Spain, take it to wherever you want.
But you need to have home fans and have some
(28:51):
supporter base, and a globe trotting franchise league doesn't quite work.
Just because you're putting the best players in the world
in our team doesn't mean that anyone that you'll have
any connection to it or want to see it. And
you can see the best players in the world play
pretty accessibly in terms of rugby. They go around the globe.
That's kind of the basis of what makes rugby union
so good as it is a global game and you
(29:12):
can go north and see the best players in the
world and reverse and come down south. So I know
they're more worried about it in the Northern hemisphere than
they are seemingly around the Southern hemisphere because they've got
a lot of issues around the Premiership and everything like that.
You know where some money could be tempted with a
lot of those teams in financial difficulty, not saying New
Zealand and Super Abay clubs aren't in financial hardship as well,
(29:35):
but it seems like something that's driven out of the
North that seems more appealing to the North. Just can't
see it working. And six R three six is a
terrible name. It sounds like you're sitting down on a
Monday night to watch Buzz Rothfield and Braith and Astera
and the boys to watch them debate that the weekend.
That was Yeah, just just don't see it working.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
No, And it's the cash that you need to bank
roll that many players, that many teams, the yeah, the
global travel, all the rest of it. It's who's funding there,
And that was all that. That's the question of all
the sort of concepts is who's going to bank roll
them and why? So Yeah, I think there's been a
(30:15):
bit of interest up north and players signing signaling their
interests if it does get off the ground, but that's
just them looking after their their you know, their patch
and not ruling things out. But very very surprised if
this is a fly.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, and I think from what I understand, it's sort
of be taking to World Rugby Council if they wanted.
I mean, they could do a rebel league themselves, but
you wouldn't have allow players to be playing test rugby.
So if they want the players to be playing, it's
got to go to World Rugby Council. It needs to
be backed by a union, so they've got to find
a union to go. This is a great idea, Let's
take it to World Rugby Council. Then it needs to
be voted in after that. So there's so many hopes
(30:50):
to getting this off the ground. Just can't see it happening.
Topic number two, the hurricane season. Give us the grade
from A to.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Well, if it's tough, isn't it still still down in
the dumps here? And then you're really kicking a man here. Look,
they have had a lot of departures in recent years.
No Jordie, no Ardie. They barely had a first five
for most of the year. Yeah, so that's something like
(31:17):
Crusaders from US. Look, I'm going to give them a
B plus. Okay, I'm giving them a B. So we're similar.
They came into their own towards the end of the season.
They had injuries. As you mentioned, they didn't have Ruben
Love for the first month and a half roughly of
the competition. Brick Cameron was out for a long period
of time. They started Riley ho Heepper at ten for
(31:37):
a number of weeks.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Harry Godfrey was very good and then they lost him
as well.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, and horn Heeaper is just not the answer. I
think they missed a track by moving Ruben Love back
to fifteen in those last couple of weeks by instead
of putting Brick Cameron. By putting Brick Cameron back in
at ten, I would have stuck with Ruben Love. He
was the guy in the hot seat, had the hot hands.
Bret Cameron's a solid player, but Ruben Love's the future.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah, just on that. A couple of.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Tactical blunders from Love and Callum Hark and kicking the
ball away late in the piece in that match. So
still a lot to learn from a game management maturity
point of view when the game is on the line.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, they miss Kenning Hollow later in the season, I
felt as well. Obviously had to move Baalen Sullivan and
some of the pieces of the back line around.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
More not there for a lot of the years or
Lomax came back later.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yes, they had injuries, but it felt like they were
gaining momentum and it came to a very sudden stop
in Canberra, and again it wasn't in theory supposed to
be sudden death. They couldn't quite get this, So block
on too twenty twenty six and they'll have Jordy Barrett
back for next year as well, which is a positive
for you guys.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
It is.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It is topic number three on the basis of the weekend.
If you changed your mind on the Super Rugby playoff format. No,
and there's a lot of talk about this wasn't.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
There a lot of acts and it was largely around
the lucky loser type concept. But the one frustration that
we touched on and talked about was the chief or
should the Chiefs lose ever, lose only dropped one ranking position,
and for me, that's almost the biggest scrape with it.
I think the Chiefs, having lost, should go to fourth
(33:18):
to have a guaranteed home semi final and be a
lucky loser. That's a double reward. I think in a
perfect world the top two teams get.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
The week off. We understand that the broadcasting.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Financial imperatives behind those decisions to have a full quarter
final as such, but to only lose one ranking position
I think in the context of what happened at the
weekend doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I'm kind of with you that I think they should
slide to last, but also that would have meant the
Crusaders now play the Chiefs, and probably not a game
the Crusaders would want this week. I mean, the Blue's
gonna be tough. A is that they don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
But don't get a hand pick here. No semi finals.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
But if they slide to the bottom, you're all of
a sudden facing the best team in the season, you know,
in the second week of the playoffs, rather than potentially
in the final. So yeah, I don't think there's a
per format when you're refusing to give the top two
teams off, you're sort of always going to lose something
as a result or be hamstrung by something as a
result of that. So yeah, Max feelings still despite perhaps
(34:20):
some of the jeopardy that came into the weekend and
topic number four not a topic or a debate or anything,
but Stu Bawson passing away over the weekends one of
those figures that I don't think you or I would
have seen live obviously, but a name that probably we
knew from a young age broadcaster wise, he was on
the TV, commentated a lot of games. You see some
(34:40):
highlights maybe from yester year. So he was a real
character of the game in New Zealand and very very
sad to hear of his passing and at a very
young age of seventy.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, Wellington in all Black great in the seventies and eighties.
I grew up in a house where Ebonie and Ivory,
the book he had with Bernie Fraser was on the
mantle piece. And yeah, as you mentioned, not just his
feats on the field but off the feel real character,
a lot of personality brought that to commentary, very funny
(35:14):
and engaging, and I think he had a stint put
in his heart in twenty twenty one and actually worked
as an orderly in total on the hospital prior to
passing away over over the weekend. So yeah, very sad news,
and I'm sure they'll be keenly felt by a number
of players from his generation. David Campeazy leading the tribute,
(35:36):
saying he was cocky and confident and had you know,
as sharp as a tack on and off the field.
So players of that generation will, yeah, I'm sure rally
round and share some memories, surely.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, yeah, after I had to think, after dinner speeches
and m seeing gigs. He sort of did over the years,
very prolific, So very very sad news. Let's get into
out tipping. Over the course of the weekend, we both
had two out of three. Liam, you picked the Crusaders
and Blues, but your Canes you got that pack wrong.
I picked the Crusades and Brumbies and got the Chiefs
(36:09):
game wrong. So that means I still lead by six
points forty nine point five to fifty five five. No
toots this week Crusaders Blues Friday Nights.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Look, I'm gonna have to go with the Blues. Aren't underdogs? Villains, villains, villains, yeah,
taking it was kept in America.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
That was the Canes.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
But the Blues Spider Man, spider Man, Yeah, not really
a villain, are they. Spiderman's a good guy. Yeah, hey,
that could be the Jesseys down there this week. Prob
would clash with the Crusaders. That's some sort of villain revival.
Can't think of one off the top of my head.
So you're going to Blues. I'm going to Crusaders to
win that. Chiefs Brumbies Saturday Night seven o five. The
Chiefs hot favorite for this one against the Brumbies. You know,
(36:57):
the Brumbies go across the Tasman nothing to lose. But
I still think the Chiefs will bounce back. Even though
you know that game was pretty torrid and they would
have taken a bit of a rock to the confidence.
I still think the Chiefs will back. So I'm going
Crusaders Chiefs one.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yeah, I'm going to the Chiefs too.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I think I think the Brummy's all get there are
real nudge But I'd be surprised of the Chiefs that
they have shown this year they're belity to bounce back
from a defeat. You think about that lost to the
Hurricanes and Wellington Clate mcmellon made them listen to the
Hurricanes team song, and.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
God knows what he listened to on the weekend, I
can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
And they did bounce back emphatically from that defeat, so
surely everything to play for, they've got to get up.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
We'll see MVP Metal voting time three two ones. Ardie
sav leads by twelve points, Boden Barrett on thirteen points
and second and to Marthy Tapa tab naw Way in eleven.
Now he can't get any more points. We do continue
it during the playoffs. My three two ones, Christian Leo
Willie gets my three points. He led the way on
(38:02):
the weekend. I think he's right in that all Blacks mix.
I think he was second only to Will Jordan for
number of carries. He was just everywhere for the Crusaders
on the weekend. He gets my three hoskins. The two
he gets my two probably has been performed in a
tight game. I just thought he led the punch for
the Blues in a way we haven't seen. Patrick Tweeple
(38:23):
or two gets my one. Boden Barrett probably should have
got a point at some point because he outpointed and
was out of the match. But that's the three to two.
When I went to that certain point in time, I'm
gonna go Hoskins for three.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I thought he was exceptional and I think he has
been standing up big time at the back end of
the year for the Blues. And it's some of the
criticisms of his game where he's actually coming to the fours.
It's that combativeness. It's you know, the physical exchanges in
defense at the breakdown with ball in hand, he's making
real hard meters. So I think he's one of the
(38:56):
former loose forwards in this competition really standing up.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
So three to him, two to Fletch Newell.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
I just think he was a massive driving force behind
that Crusader's victory. And I'm going to give one to
Boden just for his tactical control, clearly out Shawn McKenzie there.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Indeed, Well, there you go our three two ones of
Boden gains a point on Ardie Savia and the rankings
moves to fourteen. Another week of three two ones next week,
And speaking of next week, we pick he's a bit
a homework for a liam Our thirty five Man All
Black squad to face France. This will be a last
podcast before the squad is announced, So next week on
(39:35):
our edition of the podcast, I want you to pick
your thirty five names. You can pick it however you like,
but I want those thirty five names and I'll do
the same.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
You can handle that, won't go with the dog ate
my homework excuse and yes we were. The following week
after the Super Ugby Final, you know, will be jetting
our way to the beautiful Tartanucky Coasts, yes, where the
All Black squad will be announced at the Coastal Rugby.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Club, hopefully ned some interviews and some thoughts and and
get the podcast going down there. It'll be busy or
game because we're wrapping the the Super Rugby Final between
the and the Chiefs. Maybe maybe not Blues Brumbies Blues Chiefs.
We'll be wrapping something as well. No, it will not
be and that's probably a good note to furnish it
on for Rugby Direct for another week. Thanks for our
(40:21):
friends that habit health, tackling all your aches and pains
from sport and work. Our thanks to the last and
Bars English. But we will see you next.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Week for more from News Talks, ed B. Listen live
on air or online, and keep our shows with you
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You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Drup, Dicky Scy Try these packet.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Elliot Smith and Liam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Habit Heath, tackling all
your aches and pains from sports and work back for
another week Elliott Smith and Liam Napier. Plenty to get
stuck into. But first, some breaking news that has come
just before we kicked off our recording of Rugby Directs,
and that is New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson
to stand down at the ends of twenty twenty five. Liam,
(01:00):
your initial reaction to this newser There had had been
a few rumors in recent weeks that this was a
possibility and now it has been firmed that he's leaving
at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, big news is and Elliott the head of our
national sport moving on at the end of the year.
Has it's been a tumultuous six year tenure. I think
it's fair to say Mark Robinson coming in following Steve
Cheue two very different characters. Cho was a very dictatorial,
authoritative figure and Mark Robinson a different type of leader.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
He hasn't had it easy, but it has.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Been a There's been a lot of upheaval, hasn't There
COVID unprecedented pandemic, all the closures and the Super Rugby
upheaval that came out of that Silver Lake, the private
equity deal that's still in the balance about whether that
(01:58):
was a good move for the New Zealand game, and
of course the public fallout around Ian Foster and Robertson
that the appointment of the All Blacks coach, again unprecedented
coming during in the lead up to the twenty twenty
three World Cup. So some very big ticket items on
(02:20):
Mark Robinson's tenure. And I think there you mentioned the
whispers the rumors there. The riding had been on the
wall from the back end of last year when you
had a new New Zealand Rugby board coming, David Kirk
the new chairman, and everyone expected at some point he
would essentially push for change. We've also had the New
(02:44):
Zealand Rugby commercial co boss move on, Craig Fenton, and
I think there was always going to be a come
to Jesus moment where New Zealand Rugby wanted one group
CEO across those both those boards. So the commercial entity
of New Zealand Rugby and the rugby arm of the
New Zealand Rugby board and who that's going to be,
(03:04):
not too sure. What do you make of I guess
your initial reaction of the news and I guess your
reflections of he's not gone yet, but of his time
on Mark Robinson's time in the hot seat.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, I mean it hasn't come easy for Robinson. I
think compared to Steve Chu probably navigated a few less
challenges in the global game potentially, and that was exacerbated
by COVID nineteen. I mean Mark Robinson started the gig
in January of twenty twenty. The world was a completely
different place back then to where it is now. And
(03:39):
it feels like the game is still sort of getting
back on its feet a little bit after COVID, both
at super rugby level and an international level. The Silver
Lake deal, as you said, very much jury out still
as to whether that was a good idea and whether
New Zeale Rabya is seeing the benefits of what was
supposedly promised by silver Lake as a result of them
(04:00):
pumping that money into elements of the New Zealand game.
So he's seen a period of change and I think
the timing's probably right to have someone new come in
and accelerate that change, or even decelerate the change and
changed up a bit and look for different ways to
do things in the national game. I think, yeah, the
(04:21):
jury is probably out over his legacy is tenure. You know,
the pull away from South Africa is probably going to
be something that's attached to him. I know a lot
of New Zealand rugby fans view that period of Super
Rugby with South Africa with roast into glasses. It feels
like this year Super Pacific might have got to the
point where they envisioned it being when they first split
(04:42):
away from the South Africans. So ultimately, I think a
mixed period of legacy. And you know he's judged on
not only the on field results but also the off
field results, and I think on that point you probably
have to say very much a mixed tenure from Mark Robinson.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah, and that would be reflected if you went out
to the heart blends of rugby and talked to the
provincial unions. If you talk to people about the way
in which Silverlac deal played out, about the all black
coaching appointment, and a lot of those situations are lose
lose from a public facing point of view, But at
(05:21):
times I think there could have been more strong, decisive
leadership of New Zealand game and I think that's what
they'll be seeking going forward with a replacement in time.
Just on your point about South Africa, I think there
has been an element of history being rewritten there. I
think South Africa always we're going to go that way.
(05:43):
COVID accelerated it, maybe it wasn't handled that well. And
even the friction, the tension with Australia about how many
teams I've had, well we've seen now that clearly they
couldn't afford or sustain five teams. So history does shine
a different light on things. I think Super Rugby is
(06:04):
more sustainable in its current format and.
Speaker 4 (06:08):
US would be nice to.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Have South Africa involved, But like you say, a bit
of rose into glasses there in some respects, and I
think they were always going to break away and go north.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
He's going to leave at the end of the year.
There's still a few things to be signed off before
he does depart. A new broadcast deal, the Women's Rugby
World Cup in England is still to take place. We
haven't had rugby's greatest rivalry. These tours against Africa are
basically they're in the schedule, but it hasn't been officially
announced that. The Club World Cup hasn't been officially announced,
the Nation's Cup schedule etc. Hasn't been officially announced. So
(06:41):
there's a fair bit of work to do before he
leaves the post at the end of the year, where
he apparently he's going to go join his family in
Australia who are based in Queensland. So very understandable for
from those reasons, but a bit of work to do,
I guess, you know some part of it and from
what I unerstand very well respected Mark Robinson around the
international boards, the international game, bring back tours, there's going
(07:03):
to be something that he can probably point to as
part of his legacy.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, it's some really big ticket items mentioned there. The
tours concept will be hugely popular once every four years
and the boom I guess in the Woman's game and
the Black Ferns will Cup this year and it sounds
like plans are in the works to really finalize a
(07:28):
strong calendar for the women's game in this country going forward.
So yeah, there are some positive steps taken there. And
as you mentioned, he is going to go join his
family in Queensland. He's got three kids, understand all you
want to link up there. But the big one there
is the broadcast steel. It sounds like Sky is offering
(07:51):
around eighty five million, which is a significant reduction on
previous years.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
New Zealand Rugby has.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Signed a number of different sponsorship deals in recent times
to plug potentially plug some of those holes. But that
is going to be really fundamental to funding every level
of the game. How that broadcast steal plays out.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Anyone stand out as a possible contender to take over
this job or is it going to be very much
an open such I.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Think it will be open slather to a degree. I
see it being a one, one group CEO, so you
will have I think you still have people at the
head of a commercial code board or in a New
Zealand Rugby board. But then there's an overarching helicopter figure
(08:38):
almost like a Director of Rugby type role, but in
a managerial position, somebody with strong business background but still
knows the rugby scene. So I don't think there's anyone
internally that jumps out, but it is going to be
a massive appointments and I think people like David Kirk
(09:01):
will have a big say in who that might be.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Indeed, watch the space say some breaking news out this morning,
can follow all the reaction on ZID, Herald, dot co
dot nz. Of course, let's get into the weekend that
was in Super Rugby and boy this took a turn,
didn't it. This weekend of Super Rugby qualifying finals, so
much of that last game being a dead rubber. We'll
get to what caused that in a moment or two,
but first and foremost, the Brumbies. Let's start backwards. Brumbies
(09:27):
beating the Hurricanes thirty five twenty eight, the cane train
that had been gathering momentum. It's a bit like New
Zealand's approach to rail. It's come to a grinding halt
and the Hurricane to be disappointed with this. Look the
Brumbies with a better team. I think on the night
the Hurricanes were with them, they led fourteen seven, but
(09:52):
something switched around the half hour mark, and it felt
like even before they went behind the school, they began
chasing the game. The Brumbies just began to get on
top of the armory so and didn't relent. And boy,
it was a game with fine margins and the Hurricanes
are probably disappointed with their discipline. Also, the air account
through that game.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, our friendship was is in jeopardy.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Actually, I was driving back from the tron and receive
a gift, a gift in the student night chat group
that Thomas the tank Engine's coming off the track.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
So it was not well received. It's fair to say
I think we'd have enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
No, No, I did not what it was the key
And then obviously you're you've you've you've seen the game,
and the Hurricanes we frustrated. Perhaps they didn't put their
best performance out and what turned out to be a
knockout game.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah, I devastated.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
You could see Billy Proctor sitting on the posts post
final whistle carrefee very emotional post match, and that's just
deflating because, as you mentioned, the Canes had built a
lot of momentum from being in a real hole and
(11:02):
getting guys like Billy Proctor back were massive for them
and they had their draw and Perth knocked over the
Brumbies and the Chiefs and really did that. They came
into the finals probably as the form team and to
go to camera it's an incredibly tough place to win.
But defensively they let themselves down. The mall defense cost them.
(11:25):
They considered one really nice set try to Tom Wright,
but it just always felt like they were chasing the
game and yeah they could score points, still created a lot,
but defensively they were exposed. And yeah, they'll reflect on
that harshly because they set themselves up for a real
(11:46):
tilt and flopped. I think, you know, they'll be really
disappointed with the level that they got to because they
were much better in previous weeks.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
They were and this has been a bit of a
graveyard for them. Canberra in terms of ending their Super
Rugby season on a couple of occasions, whether their mindset
changed given it was a knockout game rather than seating
game for them, potentially, but it just felt like they
didn't get enough probably out of ten. I didn't think
(12:18):
on the weekend Britt Cameron that they moved him back
into teen with Ruben Love at fullback. Probably didn't get
enough how of brick Cameron and I thought Flanders and
duple coref He tried all nine and so did Larkeye,
but they were beaten I thought by the while other
Brumbies loose for Valentin, he had another outstanding night. You
(12:39):
know there's other loose for partners I thought were excellent
as well, and probably just been into the punch. We
didn't see Kreefy over the ball as much as we've
seen him in other games this season. We'll put him
those big hats and just didn't probably get the ascendency
up front.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
You look credit to the Brumbies as well. They are
a good team and tough to beat in camera. And
this match was in stark contrast, wasn't it to the
other semi final. It was open, it was quite expensive,
it was high scoring and Canes just couldn't quite stick
with the Brumbies.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
It was very tip for tat.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
But yeah, just a couple of really bad defensive lapses
proved costly. And you're right, I didn't think they got
enough out of ten. There was some punch at times,
but little moments that made breaks and you know, bread
shields go through and just funnels the ball and then
little occasions like that where they couldn't quite make it stick.
(13:35):
So it's another early exit for the Canes, probably reflective
of where they are at in the New Zealand pecking order.
But having built that momentum into the finals they did.
It was very familiar of building up hope and then
letting the balloon down. So tough to take all.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Right, Let's move back to the Blues twenty Chiefs nineteen
Blues winning it after the siren in Hamilton. Liam, as
you mentioned you were there, I wouldn't say you had
a great seat for it, but given what I've seen
out of that media box, thanks Chet. Yeah, really good
thinks the media really appreciates it. Blues though stubborn nineteen
(14:19):
six down. I mean they were out of it really
at half time, but they went out of it. They
should have been at it at half time. The Chiefs
had so much ball, so much position in territory in
that first spell, and yet we're only leading what nine
to three at the break, and if Boden Barrett their
ball sits up or he can slide onto it and
score the try, then the Blues would have been a
hit against the run of play at halftime, but it
(14:41):
felt like the Chiefs a game of that a sentence
after the break. Nineteen six games should probably have been
locked away in a tight tuss all like that. But
as I said, the Blues a stubborn. They refuse to
give up. And it took all Lady three minutes, but
they keep this season alive. Very impressive performance. To keep
this season going.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
You want to results, I think first of all, I
want to touch on the Chiefs because bizarre tactics. They
played into the Blues hands by being so conservative by
crashing it one off the ruck, and even Verncotta postmatch
said those tactics surprise the Blues.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Really did, felt like.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
I feel like the Chiefs went into their shells a
bit and it did still work for them to a degree.
They blew I think five chances in the Blues red
zone in that first half dominated all position. They pretty
much set up camp and the Blues twenty two. There
was the quartz at Artema bounce of the ball that
didn't go his way, but there was I think it
(15:39):
was a Daniel Rona when Caleb Clark threw that brain
explosion of a quick throwing a couple of penalties, botched opportunities,
so the Chiefs could have been up a couple of
tries at halftime. The Blues actually looked more dangerous when
they had ball in hand. They lose Ricky Ricottelli and
(16:00):
the Chiefs don't really punish them for that. And then
as you mentioned there, the Bowden Barrett brilliance and could
have easily scored the Blues could.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
Have been up at halftime.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
And before we go into the rest of it, just
on that boden Bar completely outplayed Damien McKenzie in a.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
Match that matters.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
You know that this was a head to hea battle
and McKenzie was virtually other than goalkicking non existent. Boden Bar,
a very influential with his tactical kicking, would have should
have scored that try. Named Man of the match. So
really wiped the floor and McKenzie on his home patch.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, how much she ascribe to McKenzie's performance, the tactics
that you mentioned the change in that that it was
a very un chief slight performance from what we've seen.
Did they just go well, it's plat footy, we need
to play this way rather than doing what's worked for them.
The entire season.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah, I just had a thought here, I'm just going
to blow my own trumpet, because a couple of weeks ago,
do you remember me saying the one team in Super
Rugby that could beat the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
This was after they pumped Winer was the Blues.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
As you did say that, yep, yeah, it's not even
the Hurricane.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, he did mention that, and that's because the Blues
forward pack and in their tactics it's built for finals rugby,
isn't it. And they've had tight tussles with the Chiefs
and Crusaders this year. But yeah, I just felt the
Chiefs that they had all that strike. I don't know
whether losing Antonina Brown and Quincy Pye changed their tactics somewhat.
They didn't win a confidence to use their back line,
(17:30):
but it was just so conservative and as you mentioned,
they're up thirteen points. It should have been shut the gate,
closed the game out, But the Blues incredibly resilient, aren't
They just to keep coming back, keep fighting, and it
was a real role reversal in that second half. They
set up camp in the Blues twenty two and it
did feel inevitable even when Hoskinsitutu denied that try.
Speaker 4 (17:54):
It was penalty.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Clark denied that try for and knocking it off.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, it was penalty after penalty and just wave after
wave of the Blues raiding the Chiefs line and what
a moment for Josh Berry to come off the bench
bus through. I think it was Arcoy's tackle, reach out
and score for young promising Locke, such an unlikely hero
right next to the post. And it was earlier in
(18:18):
the year March maybe when the Blues went down there
scored Xavier Taile, twenty year old kids hits the post
with a conversion. This time it's right next to the
posts and Boden Barrett throws the ball over and the
Blues steal it, and Ricco Ajani remains the chief protagonist,
shushing the crowd and hamming it up. So the Blues
(18:42):
probably the most hated team and Super Rugby, but they're
doing the business.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
That's right. It's promotion for the game and if they
want to build that narrative around them, think great. I
think that's good for the game. And Rico Juani's done
a very very good job at doing so great to
see Cameron so far as all the images of Cameron
so far in hospital chearing his team on teep A
lot too mentioned the postgame their thoughts obviously with Cameron
(19:07):
so far as everyone's are as he goes through this
tough health battle. But the Blues, now, you know, they're
going with their tails up to this game in christ yet.
We'll get to the Crusader's reads at a moment. But
the Crusader's never lost a home game. Van Koda mentioned, well,
they've got to lose some time, he said, he.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Was asked about that, not yet his immediate response, and look.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
They came very close to doing so. But for a
James a Quanta penalty earlier in the season. The Crusaders
will go in probably his favorites. But boy, the Blues
will hid down there with their tails up. The things
that potentially could count against them. That six day turned
around for what was a very physical game. But when
you got that adrenaline and that momentum going, that may
(19:48):
not matter too much.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
It does feel like the Blues have nothing to lose,
you know, the defending champions, but they just snuck into
the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
It's been a.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
Rubbish year really, from when you look at this squad
and where they came from and how dominant they were
to win that first title in twenty one years last
year and then yeah they scrape into the playoffs, everyone's
writing them off, nobody really gives them a chance. And
it's a similar theme this week really with as you
mentioned that the record down there in christ Church, most
(20:22):
people will be tipping the Crusaders, and so the Blues
maintain their underdog villain status or whatever you want to
call it, go down there and ye harness their internal
confidence and with the game that is built for finals rugby.
So what a match up to arch rivals. I would
(20:43):
like to see two selection changes from the Blues. I
know you don't change your warning formula, but I thought
Finlay Christie was relatively poor again drop the ball at
the base, there was a thinking one kick charge and
his kicking was a bit off. Tough of fol Nachi.
I would bring him back into the mix, even off
the bench, and zarh Sullivan for me, should be at
(21:06):
fullback from when you're playing that combative direct game and
you want to play territory just having his massive boot.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
I looked at Corey Evans.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
He put up a couple of high kicks and went
to contest them very bravely, but didn't regather them. And
a couple of clearance kicks only made you know, ten
to twenty meters you put zar in the pocket, you're
looking at another forty. So those were two tweaks I
think the Blue should look at, but I'm not sure
they will.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
All soun Sullivan and Steph Pittferer become two of the
forgotten men of New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Well, parafest is injured, Yeah, but isn't he back?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
He's back? Doesn't he fit again? Or very close to
being fit?
Speaker 4 (21:46):
Pretty close?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
And again with the All Blacks looming, you know, not
much of a chance to show the WIRs. Let's go
into that Crusader's Reds game on Friday night. The Crusaders
just went to work. Really, the Reds failed to fire
a shot until the game was beyond them, and the
Crusaders I think can be relatively happy with the eighty
(22:09):
minutes they turned out. In fact, if you went into
that game, if your Rob Penny pretty much everything, you know,
they got through relatively injury free. From what I understand,
they could sub some of those players before the game
was done. It wasn't in the balance. Job done for
the Crusaders, and they took that box on Friday night.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
A lot of the talk from us and outside was
about the returner will Jordan, but the guy who had
the biggest impact on this game returning was Fletcher Newel
and the Crusaders scrum just ate the reds up to
Mighty Williams and Fletcher Neil Fletcher in particular, just went
to work and that's where their dominance started and they
(22:50):
just rolled on. It really was a procession and it's
what you expect, wasn't it from that matchup? Much tougher
quest this week, but as you mentioned, they are in
great shape to Mighty Williams.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Injury not too bad.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I don't think it's too bad. I's get a full
report on that, but I think it's okay, hopefully from
a Crusader's perspective, because he's I mean, he's on a
mountain of work this year. He switched to tight head
for a period of weeks with Fletcher Newell being out.
He's been excellent. I think for them. Tomody Williams the
season probably close to being their best player throughout the season.
(23:28):
Just what he's adding to his game a few times
he's slotted in a half back and showing a pretty
good pass, which I know is not his core skills,
but his scrummaging work has been excellent this season, and
really liking the way that he's going. So hopefully and
I haven't had update from Friday night, hopefully it's not
too bad in that perspective.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Yeah, big, big performer there, I thought, Christian Leo Werde
another standout performance from him. James O'Connor was quite patchy
off the bench, missed touch kick that was kick the
ball dead and another sort of knock on, so uncharacteristically
poor performance when he did come on there.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Big. Focused on the scrum this week.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
I think we've talked a bit about Josh for situr
and has you know rise this year while going up
against Fletcher. Massive task to stabilize that scrum because the
Crusaders clearly came from the Reds there and the Blues
value their set piece that they backed themselves and so
(24:32):
that's where this could be. One of the.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Blues had a few issues at scrum time on the
weekend and gets got popped up by Olie Norris on
one occasion. So yeah, that's going to be key part
of the game, isn't it. And we have our playoff set.
We'll get into some tipping very very shortly. But you
know the road to the title runs through christ Church,
which not many would have expected after that first weekend.
(24:55):
And what chance do you give the Brumbies of beating
the Chiefs in Hamilton? You mentioned the Blues have got
that style of game that can stop them. Well, the
Brumbies have got that prototype as well. You'd fancy the Chiefs,
but you know, the Brumbies are really in a similar
position to the Blues. They've got nothing to lose.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
It was just firstly on the Crusaders.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Look, it's the title to lose that with the rankings changing,
with them having the box that they're in the box
seat home advantage. Freezing in christ Church everything set up
from just on there. Where the hell was everyone?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
It was freezing.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
There's nobody there, mate, Like did you even care about
rugby and cushy cold mate? It was like two degrees
literally no one there. Yeah, what very very poor toun out.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Okay, that stadium is sucks shit for one, and people
cannot wait to get them the new stadium. Two They
were most likely to have a game the following week three.
That reads a huge draw card arrogance four.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
It was just cold, mate, I don't want to hear
it's cold, Okay, I get it's cold. It was cold
and Hamilton's it.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Was cold and wheat and raining and there is nowhere
more miserable to be than that tin pot stadium.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Look, I understand that, but it was a terrible look
for a quarterfinal match to be played in front of
no one man when you've had so much success. Just
going back to the Brumbies, there are a live chance
the Chiefs need to play more rugby and their confidence
will be rocked by that. They blew it thirteen point
(26:24):
lead in the second half and they've got this finals yep, yep,
yeah hanging over them having lost to was three finals.
Really if you go back to Super rugby, alter and
a lot of pressure to try and send off CLAYT
McMillan in the right fashion, and yeah that was They're
(26:45):
very lucky to have to retain a home semi final
this week. But the Brumbies, if they played to their best,
are a real live chance.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Indeed, well we'll look forward to that this week in
commentary of both on Gold Sport and iHeartRadio. Of course,
will take a break here on Rugby Direct. Come back
with the second half after this.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
This is Rugby Direct, a vodcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Every drive, drive and sixty secondary, tackle to tack, tackles,
get up, agaying you before time.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Lad, You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by Habit Health,
tackling all your aches and pains from sport and let's
get into the final four four rugby topics. Liam and
I discussed debate, et cetera, et cetera. R three sixty
A lot of hype coming out of the Northern Hemisphere.
Any prospect of this working? This franchise competition that supposedly
(27:41):
we've got some of the greats of franchise sport, the
NFL owners, the Premier League, the Formula One, they all
want a slice of R three sixty. Will we ever
see this actually take the field? This sounds a bit
Steve Hansen twelve?
Speaker 4 (27:57):
Was it twelve?
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:58):
The twelves. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
Look, there's lots of these concepts around, but I think
the only way this skits off the ground if Mike
Tinlkin swindle some royals money because it's literally going to
take not small fortune to be able to bankroll it
and look as a disruptor as a means to get
(28:21):
rugby to think about things differently. It's not the worst
concept in the world, but oh, it's pretty close. I
cannot see it getting off the ground.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
No, I just don't know where the desire is from
this Sevens are battling at the moment. It's very Sevens
like concept, and they go around the globe. We're going
to bring all the best players in there. Well, the
Sevens isn't working. And when you've got no connection, where
do the home fans go? You know, take it to Argentina,
to take it to Spain, take it to wherever you want.
But you need to have home fans and have some
(28:51):
supporter base, and a globe trotting franchise league doesn't quite work.
Just because you're putting the best players in the world
in our team doesn't mean that anyone that you'll have
any connection to it or want to see it. And
you can see the best players in the world play
pretty accessibly in terms of rugby. They go around the globe.
That's kind of the basis of what makes rugby union
so good as it is a global game and you
(29:12):
can go north and see the best players in the
world and reverse and come down south. So I know
they're more worried about it in the Northern hemisphere than
they are seemingly around the Southern hemisphere because they've got
a lot of issues around the Premiership and everything like that.
You know where some money could be tempted with a
lot of those teams in financial difficulty, not saying New
Zealand and Super Abay clubs aren't in financial hardship as well,
(29:35):
but it seems like something that's driven out of the
North that seems more appealing to the North. Just can't
see it working. And six R three six is a
terrible name. It sounds like you're sitting down on a
Monday night to watch Buzz Rothfield and Braith and Astera
and the boys to watch them debate that the weekend.
That was Yeah, just just don't see it working.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
No, And it's the cash that you need to bank
roll that many players, that many teams, the yeah, the
global travel, all the rest of it. It's who's funding there,
And that was all that. That's the question of all
the sort of concepts is who's going to bank roll
them and why? So Yeah, I think there's been a
(30:15):
bit of interest up north and players signing signaling their
interests if it does get off the ground, but that's
just them looking after their their you know, their patch
and not ruling things out. But very very surprised if
this is a fly.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, and I think from what I understand, it's sort
of be taking to World Rugby Council if they wanted.
I mean, they could do a rebel league themselves, but
you wouldn't have allow players to be playing test rugby.
So if they want the players to be playing, it's
got to go to World Rugby Council. It needs to
be backed by a union, so they've got to find
a union to go. This is a great idea, Let's
take it to World Rugby Council. Then it needs to
be voted in after that. So there's so many hopes
(30:50):
to getting this off the ground. Just can't see it happening.
Topic number two, the hurricane season. Give us the grade
from A to.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Well, if it's tough, isn't it still still down in
the dumps here? And then you're really kicking a man here. Look,
they have had a lot of departures in recent years.
No Jordie, no Ardie. They barely had a first five
for most of the year. Yeah, so that's something like
(31:17):
Crusaders from US. Look, I'm going to give them a
B plus. Okay, I'm giving them a B. So we're similar.
They came into their own towards the end of the season.
They had injuries. As you mentioned, they didn't have Ruben
Love for the first month and a half roughly of
the competition. Brick Cameron was out for a long period
of time. They started Riley ho Heepper at ten for
(31:37):
a number of weeks.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Harry Godfrey was very good and then they lost him
as well.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, and horn Heeaper is just not the answer. I
think they missed a track by moving Ruben Love back
to fifteen in those last couple of weeks by instead
of putting Brick Cameron. By putting Brick Cameron back in
at ten, I would have stuck with Ruben Love. He
was the guy in the hot seat, had the hot hands.
Bret Cameron's a solid player, but Ruben Love's the future.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah, just on that. A couple of.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
Tactical blunders from Love and Callum Hark and kicking the
ball away late in the piece in that match. So
still a lot to learn from a game management maturity
point of view when the game is on the line.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, they miss Kenning Hollow later in the season, I
felt as well. Obviously had to move Baalen Sullivan and
some of the pieces of the back line around.
Speaker 4 (32:24):
More not there for a lot of the years or
Lomax came back later.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yes, they had injuries, but it felt like they were
gaining momentum and it came to a very sudden stop
in Canberra, and again it wasn't in theory supposed to
be sudden death. They couldn't quite get this, So block
on too twenty twenty six and they'll have Jordy Barrett
back for next year as well, which is a positive
for you guys.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
It is.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It is topic number three on the basis of the weekend.
If you changed your mind on the Super Rugby playoff format. No,
and there's a lot of talk about this wasn't.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
There a lot of acts and it was largely around
the lucky loser type concept. But the one frustration that
we touched on and talked about was the chief or
should the Chiefs lose ever, lose only dropped one ranking position,
and for me, that's almost the biggest scrape with it.
I think the Chiefs, having lost, should go to fourth
(33:18):
to have a guaranteed home semi final and be a
lucky loser. That's a double reward. I think in a
perfect world the top two teams get.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
The week off. We understand that the broadcasting.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Financial imperatives behind those decisions to have a full quarter
final as such, but to only lose one ranking position
I think in the context of what happened at the
weekend doesn't feel right.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I'm kind of with you that I think they should
slide to last, but also that would have meant the
Crusaders now play the Chiefs, and probably not a game
the Crusaders would want this week. I mean, the Blue's
gonna be tough. A is that they don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
But don't get a hand pick here. No semi finals.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
But if they slide to the bottom, you're all of
a sudden facing the best team in the season, you know,
in the second week of the playoffs, rather than potentially
in the final. So yeah, I don't think there's a
per format when you're refusing to give the top two
teams off, you're sort of always going to lose something
as a result or be hamstrung by something as a
result of that. So yeah, Max feelings still despite perhaps
(34:20):
some of the jeopardy that came into the weekend and
topic number four not a topic or a debate or anything,
but Stu Bawson passing away over the weekends one of
those figures that I don't think you or I would
have seen live obviously, but a name that probably we
knew from a young age broadcaster wise, he was on
the TV, commentated a lot of games. You see some
(34:40):
highlights maybe from yester year. So he was a real
character of the game in New Zealand and very very
sad to hear of his passing and at a very
young age of seventy.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, Wellington in all Black great in the seventies and eighties.
I grew up in a house where Ebonie and Ivory,
the book he had with Bernie Fraser was on the
mantle piece. And yeah, as you mentioned, not just his
feats on the field but off the feel real character,
a lot of personality brought that to commentary, very funny
(35:14):
and engaging, and I think he had a stint put
in his heart in twenty twenty one and actually worked
as an orderly in total on the hospital prior to
passing away over over the weekend. So yeah, very sad news,
and I'm sure they'll be keenly felt by a number
of players from his generation. David Campeazy leading the tribute,
(35:36):
saying he was cocky and confident and had you know,
as sharp as a tack on and off the field.
So players of that generation will, yeah, I'm sure rally
round and share some memories, surely.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Well, yeah, after I had to think, after dinner speeches
and m seeing gigs. He sort of did over the years,
very prolific, So very very sad news. Let's get into
out tipping. Over the course of the weekend, we both
had two out of three. Liam, you picked the Crusaders
and Blues, but your Canes you got that pack wrong.
I picked the Crusades and Brumbies and got the Chiefs
(36:09):
game wrong. So that means I still lead by six
points forty nine point five to fifty five five. No
toots this week Crusaders Blues Friday Nights.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Look, I'm gonna have to go with the Blues. Aren't underdogs? Villains, villains, villains, yeah,
taking it was kept in America.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
That was the Canes.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
But the Blues Spider Man, spider Man, Yeah, not really
a villain, are they. Spiderman's a good guy. Yeah, hey,
that could be the Jesseys down there this week. Prob
would clash with the Crusaders. That's some sort of villain revival.
Can't think of one off the top of my head.
So you're going to Blues. I'm going to Crusaders to
win that. Chiefs Brumbies Saturday Night seven o five. The
Chiefs hot favorite for this one against the Brumbies. You know,
(36:57):
the Brumbies go across the Tasman nothing to lose. But
I still think the Chiefs will bounce back. Even though
you know that game was pretty torrid and they would
have taken a bit of a rock to the confidence.
I still think the Chiefs will back. So I'm going
Crusaders Chiefs one.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Yeah, I'm going to the Chiefs too.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I think I think the Brummy's all get there are
real nudge But I'd be surprised of the Chiefs that
they have shown this year they're belity to bounce back
from a defeat. You think about that lost to the
Hurricanes and Wellington Clate mcmellon made them listen to the
Hurricanes team song, and.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
God knows what he listened to on the weekend, I
can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
And they did bounce back emphatically from that defeat, so
surely everything to play for, they've got to get up.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
We'll see MVP Metal voting time three two ones. Ardie
sav leads by twelve points, Boden Barrett on thirteen points
and second and to Marthy Tapa tab naw Way in eleven.
Now he can't get any more points. We do continue
it during the playoffs. My three two ones, Christian Leo
Willie gets my three points. He led the way on
(38:02):
the weekend. I think he's right in that all Blacks mix.
I think he was second only to Will Jordan for
number of carries. He was just everywhere for the Crusaders
on the weekend. He gets my three hoskins. The two
he gets my two probably has been performed in a
tight game. I just thought he led the punch for
the Blues in a way we haven't seen. Patrick Tweeple
(38:23):
or two gets my one. Boden Barrett probably should have
got a point at some point because he outpointed and
was out of the match. But that's the three to two.
When I went to that certain point in time, I'm
gonna go Hoskins for three.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I thought he was exceptional and I think he has
been standing up big time at the back end of
the year for the Blues. And it's some of the
criticisms of his game where he's actually coming to the fours.
It's that combativeness. It's you know, the physical exchanges in
defense at the breakdown with ball in hand, he's making
real hard meters. So I think he's one of the
(38:56):
former loose forwards in this competition really standing up.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
So three to him, two to Fletch Newell.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
I just think he was a massive driving force behind
that Crusader's victory. And I'm going to give one to
Boden just for his tactical control, clearly out Shawn McKenzie there.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Indeed, Well, there you go our three two ones of
Boden gains a point on Ardie Savia and the rankings
moves to fourteen. Another week of three two ones next week,
And speaking of next week, we pick he's a bit
a homework for a liam Our thirty five Man All
Black squad to face France. This will be a last
podcast before the squad is announced, So next week on
(39:35):
our edition of the podcast, I want you to pick
your thirty five names. You can pick it however you like,
but I want those thirty five names and I'll do
the same.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
You can handle that, won't go with the dog ate
my homework excuse and yes we were. The following week
after the Super Ugby Final, you know, will be jetting
our way to the beautiful Tartanucky Coasts, yes, where the
All Black squad will be announced at the Coastal Rugby.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
Club, hopefully ned some interviews and some thoughts and and
get the podcast going down there. It'll be busy or
game because we're wrapping the the Super Rugby Final between
the and the Chiefs. Maybe maybe not Blues Brumbies Blues Chiefs.
We'll be wrapping something as well. No, it will not
be and that's probably a good note to furnish it
on for Rugby Direct for another week. Thanks for our
(40:21):
friends that habit health, tackling all your aches and pains
from sport and work. Our thanks to the last and
Bars English. But we will see you next.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Week for more from News Talks, ed B. Listen live
on air or online, and keep our shows with you
wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.