Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the middle of dry Dipney Scary.
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Try these packet inside the game from every angle. It's
Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier powered by
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Speaker 2 (00:43):
Back for another week.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
In the wake of the All Blacks forty three seventeen
win over France in Wellington wrapped up the Dave Gallagha
Trophy and first time they have won it since they
handed over to France in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Joining me is always.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Liam Napier from the New Zealand Herald and Liam welcome
in first and foremost a much improved All Blacks performance
to reflect on this week.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It was Elliott's great to see was that after what
we witnessed in Dunedan headed to our nation's capital, great
place that it is, and it's the Capital curse is
long gone.
Speaker 5 (01:18):
The All Blacks are back and all as well in
the world.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well the Capital curses God.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Although if there's been some sticking criticism of the capital
at large, including in the Hera by Colleigue Gregor Paul.
But if we look at this performance, it was, as
we say, much improved. But why was it much improved?
What were the All Blacks able to do better this week?
In wet's greasy a little bit greasy conditions? It stopped
(01:43):
running mid afternoon in Wellington. Compared to what they couldn't
do under the roof interned, oh.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
A lot, almost everything.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Look, the set piece worked really well in Dunedin and
their attack was strong. They scored four tries and had
two sorry three denied, so there were positive aspects out
of a very disjointed, shaky, nervous performance first up, which
is quite traditional from the All Blacks in Wellington, their
defense was much stronger. They got off the line, there
(02:12):
was real intent, an aggression and what they were doing there.
They started really well and largely put France to bed,
didn't they four first half tries? It all started for
me with the All Blacks pack. They were so much
more direct, confrontational. They went through the heart of the
French defense. They offloaded, they played at pace. Their kicking
(02:34):
game was mixed at times, but on the whole the
strategy to turn France behind, get them pirouetting, have them
scramble the ball into touch really did payoff. It allowed
the All Blacks to set up camp, to really pressure
France and put the heat on them there and they
(02:57):
largely took their chances.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
You know, the second half.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
We can touch on it a bit more, but I
don't think they got much payoff the bench and perhaps
when as ruthless as they wanted to be, but when
you put a score on a team like that, it
does tend to happen. So vastly improved across the board.
We'll get your thoughts before we move on and look
at the context to which we view this as well.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, I thought it was a much impro performance and
similar to you, it was set up by the full pack.
They did their work, they got into the tide exchanges
and were much better. I thought that the breakdown wasn't perfect,
but the speed to breakdown I thought was a lot
more efficient than it was in Dunedan. I think that
was still narrowly behind France and in terms of the
actual speed to breakdown and in terms of a matter
(03:41):
of a microsecond, but it was much improved, though a
lot quicker they were a lot more ruthless when they
had those opportunities inside the twenty two that we didn't
see last week in Dunedan, and we saw that probably
exemplified best when they had the opportunity that was finished
by two poy vii under the sticks. Now, that was
a lovely breakout All Blacks moves.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
It was rugby from the gods.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
Yeah, it was superb and they probably wouldn't have scored
that try last week they managed to finish. There were
players in the right places expecting the past, so they
had the bodies in motion that maybe they didn't have
Internedin last week, and everything they tried to do in
Deleding that didn't work kind of works. I thought. At
sky Stadium we all expected a bit of an aerial
kicking contest, and while there were plenty of kicks, it
(04:25):
wasn't for the aerial contest that maybe we expected that
match to be.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
I think that's because France just didn't really get to
dictate terms.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
And in Donedan, Yeah, the All.
Speaker 4 (04:38):
Blacks kicked high a lot more, where there was much
more variety in their kicking game. They found the grass
a lot more. Even when they went to went high,
it was little chips over the top Boden Barrett Fiardi
severe but it really was tactically astute the way they
(04:58):
kept for the corners. They were looking for grass rather
than putting it in the air. And look, I think
we still saw that the All Blacks honorable under the
high ball. The wingers in particular. I think there's big
question marks about who the best wingers are for the
All Blacks right now and their work under the high
(05:20):
ball is still an issue.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I think so, remembering as well, they had Clark ruled
out twenty four hours or thereabouts out from kickoff, and
I think he would have been a better option under
the high ball than I think. Nada was pretty good
under the high ball and he plays a lot of
fallback as well sometimes the Chiefs, certainly at the NPC level,
but I think without Clark, they you know, he's so
(05:42):
good on the hindball that and big Test matches, you've
got to look to someone like him, and they didn't
have him obviously on the weekend in the Capital. If
we break this down a little bit more, it was
the pace they played it. I felt in the first
half half that France couldn't stick with. It was a
lot of hands on hips from the French midway through
thirty minutes into that game. Is that when they were
(06:03):
coming back to halfway after conceding tries, there was no
real energy to it and they didn't look like a
team that could fight their way back into the contest
at any point in the game. So it felt different
to the previous week. And I think you've got to
congratulate the All Blacks on what they were able to
do and the way they're able to exploit some of
that French French play French defense because it probably wasn't
(06:27):
as good as the previous week. Let's touch on a
couple of things, and you mentioned the set piece. The
first try came from set Peace. First try, second try anyway,
cam royguards try came from set Peace.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Lovely we training ground play.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
That was, you know, something that you see on a
training ground that you don't expect to come up in
the game, but it did and probably exemply that the
confidence that the All Blacks were playing with that night.
Speaker 5 (06:52):
Yeah, and there's a lot to that move.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Bryan Evans, the Hurricanes lineout coach, got the praudits for
that and this was probably been glossed over in terms
of changes to the All Blacks this year. But I
spoke to Tupo Vi an immediate scrum afterwards and he
talked about how they stole that move from the Hurricanes,
(07:16):
and it was from the Hurricanes used against the Hollanders
and Wellington and Brent Evens has brought it to the
All Blacks and the All Blacks identified that France on
their defensive lineout only have their half back in the
front and so it worked to absolute perfection. Like you say,
that doesn't happen too often. You think back to Tony
(07:37):
Wilcox will try in the twenty eleven World Cup Final TV. Yeah,
there's been others. But Brent Evens, yeah, a real underrated
sort of figure in terms of changes to All Black
management and he was getting a lot of praise. Scott
Robinson spoke very highly of He talked about having an
interview with him that he didn't know was an interview
(07:59):
and they talked lineouts for an hour and then that
was all he needed to hear. And he's brought him
into camp this year, so you broaden that out and
it is very important for the All Blacks to be innovating,
to be trying things, particularly against this French team, because
I'll ask you this, what about the French strategy of
(08:21):
changing ten starting players so they well exceeded expectations in Dunedin,
you know, push the all Blacks to the brink.
Speaker 5 (08:30):
The series is on the line.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
Fabianngaltig wants to use as full thirty eight man squad
on this tour. But they made ten starting changes, introduced
six rookies, rested Gailfku the most experienced figure, and captain
some of their best players from the first test one
of their loose forwards.
Speaker 5 (08:49):
What do you make of that strategy?
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Well, I think it just shows that the series never
really meant that much to them in all honesty, because
if it did, you'd go, you know, absolute balls to
the wall, you know, put your best team out in
the park, and they haven't done that.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Boden Barratt had seventy two more caps than the entire
French team.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Well, two of the best players are coming off the
bench and they have done in the first two weeks,
Cameron Walkee and Romaine Tofafaniuer. They've come off the bench
in both weeks and have made a difference when they've
come on and have more experience than a lot of
these players now, whether they're under a minute's restriction, whatever
it might be. This wasn't a selection from Gualty how
to save the series. And then that you read and
go this series doesn't mean that much to them, and
(09:28):
you go back to the original point of the squad
they selected to bring down to New Zealand, is that,
you know, the July series just is something they're contractual,
tractually obliged to do.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
They check that off. They probably would rather not do it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
They use they're developing a little bit of depth, but
the series, in terms of actually winning the series means
very little to the French.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Yeah, I had a wee bit of context to this.
So the Super Agby season is four months long and
I think teams play a maximum about seventeen games. The
ABS then play thirteen fourteen tests over a five month period.
In France the clubs play up to thirty seven games
in a season that's almost ten months, and then France
(10:09):
play about eleven tests. So I guess that just highlights
the difference in domestic to international and it's something that
needs to be addressed and I don't know whether it will.
And it's also worth noting that World Rugby actually moved
the international calendar largely to try and appease the top
(10:29):
fourteen clubs from June to July to try and get
more alignment. And there's also been a lot of chats
given what's happening in Australia with the Lions, that maybe
the lines should go on toward France. Well, they'll be
playing a beat team. So France, as you mentioned before,
just do not care from an international perspective. They've got
(10:50):
this long standing agreement with the French clubs that precludes
them from selecting their best players and so it really
does make a mockery of the elite status of the
international game exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
And it's not going to change because the French have
their Top fourteen, which is a very successful problem, the
best club competition in the world. It's not watched down
in New Zealand, much like Super Rugby probably isn't watched
too much in France. And when you have these two
things collide around what matters most to them in their game,
and the Top fourteen is very very important to them.
In New Zealand, the test matches are very very important
(11:24):
to them. This is a July series. It's a market
series for New Zealand rugby. It's an opportunity to get
a lot of money through the door. Well, friend, track,
you don't care about that. They care about the November
Games when they're hosting these the countries, these countries and
the Six Nations. They don't care about these July series.
They never really have and they're basically, as I say,
(11:47):
a box to be ticked.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
So this goes back to the point I was making
last week about I think the overriding frustration and disappointment
with the All Blacks performance in Dunedin and the prism
with which we view the series through. So yes, the
All Blacks were vastly improved and impressive in a number
of different facets.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
But how much can you take out this series.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Well, you can only take what you know, what's been
played in front of you. This isn't the All Blacks
choice to play this team. They've been put out there
and again going into the series. It was a case
of a no win situation. I think for Scott Robertson
is that they're playing very inexperienced international players who are
good at domestic level.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And that's the thing, as I said last week.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
I don't think there's a big drop off from their
top team to their second team, but they're inexperienced at
test level. So regardless of when you play players that
are playing inexperienced at test level, you're always going to
be judged harshly, rightly or wrongly on that. And so
this whole series has been a no win situation. They're
poor Internedin and everyone says, well, this is a Bereat
French B team. They beat them in Wellington, while everyone
(12:49):
says this is a French B team, you should have
beat them by this much. So for the All Blacks,
I think it's a no win scenario.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
It is.
Speaker 4 (12:56):
It does allow them, it should allow them, and will
this week because the series is wrapped up, freedom to experiments,
to try things, to innovate, but they are a vastly
tougher tests to come this year. Let me put it
to you this way, would the All Blacks have beaten
the spring Box at the weekend?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
No, probably not. But there's a reason they play the
spring Box in September rather than July. And in some
ways this is quite good for the All Blacks is
to be able to win with that expectation. I mentioned
before on them that they have to win and win
well but still be able to bring in some players,
which they'll do this weekend. Just before we wrap up
the game, any further thoughts, but I wanted to touch
(13:39):
on the second half and twenty nine to three up.
I mean, this always happens, doesn't that. Yet you take
a fifteen minute break for halftime, you lose some of
that momentum that you have in a contest. France brings
on five changes early in the second spell, as I
touched on Walkie and Top for Feranila to their better
players that are out here on this tour. France look
to disrupt the All Blacks a little bit more so
(14:00):
they weren't able to kick on with it maybe as
much as you would like in the second spell. It's
hard to judge because the All Blacks mate changes as well.
So I don't know really what to take out of
the second forty minutes. That's why I very much narrowed
down what the first ford is delivered.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
I think the All Black the composition of the All
Blacks bench isn't quite right at the moment, and that
that's partly because you're missing guys like to Mighty Williams,
Tyrrel Lomax, Anthonina Brown hasn't featured in this series. Wallace
Attiti's still to come back, Caleb Clark's out for five
to six weeks. Sev Reese was had a head knock
(14:35):
in that first test. He might be available in Hamilton.
So the All Blacks aren't at full strength and I
think that's affecting that the impact that they get off
the bench. So we need to see more from that,
and just between move on again, I just want to
touch on some individual performances. I thought Artie severe outstanding.
(14:55):
I think I think we saw what the leadership means
to him. You know, we saw that with Moylan this
year and it does seem to really inspire him. He's
not a big talker. He leads to actions and we
saw that again in his home city that Tupo via
tray he fends off the French whose fire makes the break.
(15:17):
There was a couple of errors in there at times
as well, but he was just everywhere, wasn't he. Cody
Taylor consistently excellent and I think you only really appreciate
that when he's not there. Somasny Taky came off the
bench and missed his first lineout. So Cody Taylor forces
errors with his defense, has set pieces exemplary, He's so
(15:41):
mobile and his work rates there. Fabian Holland goes eighty
minutes again, Patrick two Plotu was very good for sixty minutes.
Big Ball carries one line out steel. He might have
injured his knee might not be available this week. Cam
Royguard is playing out of his skin, his big booming boot,
his running game. Billy Procter, I thought grew into the
(16:03):
game and benefited from that selection, continuity and tupu VIAI.
I'm not to commit to it yet, but I'm on
the verge of admitting that I may have been wrong,
that the All Blacks may be right, and that their
move for him at six. It was noted by one
of our loyal listeners, Paul Stevens, the jibe that you
gave me last week about when I said he's too
tall for a six and you said he's only a
(16:26):
couple of inches taller than Jerome Kino. So he won't
play in Hamilton. But because of an h he failed
as HIA, but.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
He can still be cleared. But I suspect the All
Blacks will go on. There are on the side of caution.
We're recording this on Monday. We haven't heard as he
Spadeen definitively ruled out, but as you say, failed as
HR on the night he was having a second one
on Sunday. Don't know, but most likely the All Blacks
won't take that risk. Why would you take that risk?
Speaker 4 (16:51):
He exactly, And you've got guys like look Jacobson coming back.
So look, some very pleasing individual performances there. There were
some that weren't. Weren't as good. What do you make
of them? On the whole?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
I thought, Yeah, those players you highlighted there were excellent.
I think Christian Leo Willie, he has been quiet a
couple of weeks. There were a couple of moments on
the weekend that he can be proud of. I think
there's one breakdown turnover of memory service right that he
was able to get again. Remembering he came from outside
the squad to be starting these first two test matches
of the year, may have had his opportunity to come
(17:24):
a different way, obviously giving Hi miss out on the
initial squad. So look, I think he I don't know
whether it will start him this week or not give
him a third test in a row. That will be
interesting from an All Blacks perspective. We'll get into the
makeup maybe of that team in a moment or two.
Fabing Hond I thought was improved from the first performance,
and that's two eighty minute performances in a row from
(17:45):
a test debutante who's come out and delivered. I thought
was a little bit more adaptive to Test rugby this
week than maybe we saw that the previous week. I
also just want to highlight as well, maybe the drop
off between Mighty Williams and Taroll Lomax and Ethan Degruten,
Fletcher Newell, especially as starting players. Absolutely yeah, and yes
(18:07):
the scrum hew up pretty well. From All Blacks perspective.
I don't think they've got any scrum penalties maybe one
on the weekends. But it seems now that in terms
of t Mighty interraal, there is a clear one and
two or one and three if you want to use
the numbers, and a clear drop off between whether the
players are coming off the bench. So that's interesting, I think,
(18:28):
just to point out from an All Blacks perspective as
we hit into this weekend. The other thing I did
want to highlight and I mentioned this last week. I
think on the pod is around the entries into the
twenty two and on the weekends the French. Last weekend,
the French averaged four point eight points per twenty two
entry and the All Blacks average two point three. On
(18:49):
the weekend, the All Blacks averaged four point three points
from their ten entries into the twenty two. The French
average one point four from twelve entries into the twenty two,
So the French actually rammed it up a little bit
in terms of accessing the twenty two. The All Blacks
defense largely held strong, but the All Blacks are a
bit more clinical, got more payo out of the time
they're the twenty.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
Two, and that speaks to the defensive shifts, doesn't it.
The All Blacks did have to defend. I think the
opening minute they defended fifteen sixteen phases and that really
set the tone. And twenty seven points in Dunedin is
far too many for the All Blacks to be conceding.
They were open about the fact that hurt, that stung
them and they made their adjustments. Just before we move
(19:29):
on to Hamilton. Something to note from the post about
the crowd at the weekends. It's obviously sold out, great
double headed with the black Ferns as well, but interesting
to note that sixteen thousand people of the crowds, or
forty seven percent of the spectators, came from outside the
Wellington region. So when you talk about the competition for
(19:53):
test matches in New Zealand, and we touched on this
around Dunedin, they're not alone. With the new christ Church
Stadium coming in. Hamilton's got to test this weekend. I
think that highlights how much an All Black test means
from an economic perspective to a city.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Well it's an event, and as has been well documented,
a lot of concerts aren't coming to New Zealand anymore.
The All Blacks are one of the last standing events
that yep, we're going to book our flights, we're going
to book hotels, we're going to pump some money into
the local economy. And the stadium was rocking. It was
sold out. Wellington hasn't always been able to do that,
but perhaps with the small number of tests that we're
getting on New Zealand soil in the coming years, it
(20:35):
was an opportunity to spend a weekend in Wellington. The
waterfront was rocking on Saturday afternoon. It was pissing down
with rain but didn't stop the You and I are
walking around Lamptham Key earlier in the day. It's raining,
but it's packed, isn't it. Oh, we were stopping bumping
into people. We knew sort of every fifty meters or so.
No white matfoot is on the waterfront, which is something.
(20:56):
Before we leave talking about Wellington, that was made a
pretty tough we tripped given it was raining.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yeah, devastating. It's a game day tradition. There's normally a
store on the Wellington waterfront. Go there, get a very
traditional whitebait fritteran and white piece of parrale breads. So yes,
walk along the waterfront was the head was down unto
Dame Coles to say hello, but yeah, if you could
(21:23):
did see in ZAID president Matthew Cooper after the game
and he's a fan of the pot actually, which is
nice and he is positively fizzing for the All Blacks
to come to Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well The Cowboys cow bells were banned for the stadium
of the Super Rugby Final in christ Church. I'm sure
there'll be a few Cowboys around Hamilton, which brings us
to a good point because this could be a very
chief oriented team on the weekends. There is a license,
I guess from the All Blacks to change things up
a little bit. That they have now won the series.
(21:56):
They said they were going to bring in and give
opportunities to plays. Everyone in the squad was going to
play during the series. How far do they change things
this weekend? Liam and how much do they look for continuity?
We talked to Bovi probably not going to play. Do
you look at it, christianly O Willie again at number eight?
Do you look at again putting Billy Procter in thirteen
just to get those reps under the belt.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
How would you approach this weekend.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I'd like to see Billy Proctor get another go, and
it's almost like what they did with Damian McKenzie last year.
I think he started the first seven tests of the
year and that was about like you say, reps and
I think we saw at the weekend Billy Proctor got
better as the game went on. So Antonlina Brown is
available and you would think comes back from his broken
(22:42):
collar bone, he's equally a depth adept at twelve and thirteen.
They could easily play him alongside Quintapaire, but I would
like to see Billy Procter made his debut against Fiji
outside Antonlina Brown and actually played exceptionally well together, so
I'd like to see that combination. But I agree there
will be a lot of chiefs, so I think McKenzie
(23:03):
starts at ten, kem royguard at halfback. I think you'll
see Ruben Love possibly at fullback. Is obviously a hurricane,
but Ammonia Narawa not too sure of. Seva Reice probably
been available. Somersoni Takayaho will probably come in at hooker
if Patrick two Plotu.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Is not available.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
They're really light on locks, so Natoora Koi, who has
been training with the team since I think Scott Barrett's
was ruled out through injury. You're only going to have
two foot locks with our Koi and Fabian Holland.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
That's gonna be interesting to see what they call anyone
through this week, isn't it. I'm just while we've been
on any of the All Blacks have done their media
opportunity and sounds like Terrell's Alble Torollomex is available for selection,
which is a positive for the All Blacks for this
week to provide a no go look Jacobson, Anton Lennet Brown,
no mention of Patrick two Piloti, So I guess we
wait to see how this week goes on. So what
(23:59):
would your loose forward make up be? We mentioned the
locks there. For me, I'd probably go Jacobson at blindside
flanker could he fee this starts at open side, and
then Savia at number eight potentially, And I mentioned I
willing maybe getting some more reps under his belt. But
you've also got the added complication in Vita Commas that
Ardie sav is your captain for the rest of the series.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
Now, yeah, I would leave Ardi at seven because he
is the captain needs to start. I would play Jacobson
at eight, and I'd start female at six who's come
off the bench the past two weeks and give le
a weird spell. I agree he was reasonably anonymous. I
think in Wellington. I was impressed by him in Ternedin
(24:42):
and then that allows carefe. I think at the moment
that bench roll, I think he could be the All
Blacks Quaga Smith type guy, so keep him in those reps.
Guys like Noah Hotham Brody McAllister, who is the vulture
of the squad, Chiefs Hooker via the Crusaders, Antelena Brown
and Ruben Love. They will all come into the mix
(25:03):
because they haven't featured.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I'd say that'll come off the bench at this point,
I think to Pie and maybe starts something field with
Procter just thinking mccallist. I can't see him starting, so
I put them on the bench room and Loved potentially
off the bench. I mean they could start them at
fullback maybe again, it's that continuity versus getting the right combinations.
(25:25):
I mean Will Jordan's clearly the All Blacks fullback. He's
only played one test there this year because you can
discard the first you know, the first minute that he
played there internedin. So does he give him a second
test at fullback just to again build that fullback role
for him. It's going to be a very interesting team
when it's named on Thursday.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
It is, and I expect the French to be better.
I think this team will be much stronger than the
one they put out in Wellington.
Speaker 5 (25:46):
They'll bring back Fiku and.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
The suggestion out of the French camp from people we
know around the team is that Gualtier has targeted this
third Test, and with the All Blacks potentially making a
lot of changes, some injury enforced, some not, there is
a real risk that you that you lose a degree
of continuity. So I expect the French to be better
(26:10):
than they were in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I would say they would be.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
It was interesting that was put to Scott robertson that theory,
and I think the words were around with retargeted the thirties. Well,
they'll have to now because they're tourning it down the
series and I'm going to leave with something in Hamilton.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
They'll have to have to win there.
Speaker 5 (26:25):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It's also worth noting we're at the post match press
currents and Fabian Goaltier was not happy with the All Blacks.
I'm not sure if they were singing their victory song
or doing the Hawker to Tavanawa on debut, but there's
certainly a lot of noise emanating from their changing room
and Gualtier actually I think requested to one of the
(26:46):
news on Arabi staff members that the press currency stopped
because it was too noisy.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
Come on, mate, I.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Think it was the victory song that they were singing.
I was quite close to that wall at that point
in time, next to Jamie Wall who was trying to
sop the coffee the hot water machine from working. Yeah,
there's a lot going on in that post match media conference,
both the All Blacks and the French. It's just it
that way. Let's take a break here on Rugby Direct.
We'll come back with the Final four after this.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Every try try and sixty sec every tackle, pack tackles.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Get up again.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Before I'm not. It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
You're back with Rugby to Direct. Time now for the
Final four. Four rugby topics, myself and Liam debate them.
Where we've just come off the Australia New Zealand Invitational side,
which I was quite looking forward to spoke with he'd
go surr assistant coach Ian Foster last week about it.
There was a sense that they were building something in camp,
there wasn't a lot of time to implement things. Well,
they didn't really deliver. The lines are very very good,
(27:54):
mind you, and this was not the Lions Test team
that we expect to be rolled out this weekend, but
it was rather shambock from the a U n Z
side and pretty disappointing given the hype that had emanated
around this team in this camp and this concept, and
just didn't quite deliver.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
It was awful, wasn't it.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
I think they made something like sixty six percent of
their tackles. The jerseys were grim, the performance was grim.
I personally don't want to see that team again.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Well it was put too.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I'm trying to think it was on the TV coverage
or not, Like, wouldn't this be a great concept to
have in twenty twenty nine when the Linds to New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (28:33):
Yeah, no, no thanks, you don't reckon. I don't like
it at all. Let's be blunt. A New Zealand Super
Rugby team would have been vastly more competitive. And perhaps
we read into some of the names on paper, but
I think it does speak in the modern age too.
The challenges are bringing a team like that together and
(28:56):
inside a week it was it. A week previous we
saw the spring Box absolutely pace the bar Bars in
South Africa. Test teams these days are so organized and
so much analysis. You know, generally pretty cohesive beasts, and
to expect an invitational team that's smacked together inside a
(29:17):
week to be competitive as maybe a bit of.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
I've seen Barbers seem to be competitive though in matches
before and they have been.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Largely on the piss for a week.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
So look to me underlined how good the Lions are
and unfortunately this is turning into one of the worst
lines tours in history through no fold of the Lions.
It's the fold of Australian teams being utter crap.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
This is the first time that the Lions have kneeled
an opponent since beating the Melbourne Rebels thirty five nil
on the twenty thirteen tour. So in Australia, yeah again.
And I read a column from Quaig Cooper. I'm not
sure watch publication it was in, you know Quaig Cooper,
Great New Zealander. But he actually made a very salient
(29:58):
point that the the AARU have missed this track by
not allowing the Wallabies players to play in their for
rugby teams, because the perception in Australia now is switching
off because of how uncompetitive they have been. And for
guys like Tom Lioner, how much would have he benefited
(30:22):
from playing for the Reds against the Lions, rather than
potentially making his Test taboot having not played for five
or six weeks, and it does really illustrate the lack
of depth in Australia when you take the half a
dozen best players out of those teams and you have
sucked the life out of that tour because you know
(30:44):
the Test matches aren't all sold out yet. And this
is unless we see something from the Wallabies. This is
on the verge of being the most overhyped, under delivered
tour rugby tour in history.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
It is do you see Australia firing?
Speaker 4 (31:02):
I give him a crack in the first Test, but no,
I see the Lions winning three And because it's so
contingent on for me, guys like Will Skelton and Rob
Valentini just having some punch in that pack, and it
just feels the lines actually haven't been that good.
Speaker 5 (31:22):
I saw.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
I think it was Crishast on the BBC podcast talking
about how criticizing them for their performances against the Warrita
and the Brumbies in particular, and how he expected them
to get better and better, but they it doesn't matter
because of how poor the opposition they've been.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
I thought they were better than perhaps the British media
gaving credit for against the Brumbies, who are a good
team and the kind of the team we saw in
Super Rugby that can stay on the contest, that can
niggle you, that can almost play that lion style of rugby.
So I thought they were about harshing some of the
reporters around that, and it felt like there was a
lot of a happier note from what they delivered on
(32:05):
the weekend. There's been some criticisms criticism as well of
the Australian build up to the series, as you mentioned,
around not parachuting some players and to their Super Rugby sides.
One criticism from Christy Dorian, who did a podcast last
week last year with Before the Bledisloe in Sydney, was
around not perhaps making James O'Connor available for the Australian
(32:28):
New Zealand team and giving him an opportunity there. Nicknamed
Joe Schmidt Sleepy Joe, I mean that would have been
the obvious thing is that you know you could have
had in theory James O'Connor at ten and his Super
Rugby team mate David Avilli at twelve, and instantly that's
a better combination, a better team.
Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
I don't know whether James o'conn's a game change, and
I think from what I've heard, there are insurance challenges
around guys that are thirty five years and older, which
is a groom, isn't it for I'm thirty five? Bogu
well for our future premiums. But I wonder whether that's
why guys like Aaron Smith he was in Australia but
(33:10):
didn't play Sam Caine. Yeah, it didn't get cover for
their Japanese deal because of the more higher risk of injury.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
That team probably needed three weeks to prepare and that's
pretty unrealistic in the current climate.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
We'll see you in twenty twenty nine. Black Funds fire
and the second spell to beat Australia. First half was
really scrappy, mehan. The Black Fans scored after fifty seven
seconds through Portia Woodman Wickliffe, but just couldn't get going
for a lot of that seconds at first spell. But
after halftime Australia fatigued they couldn't stay with the Blackfounds
(33:48):
when they lifted up at level. But as a last
test before the Rugby World Cup, it was anything but
vintage from the Blackfunds.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
It was not a tough watch, but it was a
real grind for forty five to fifteen minutes, wasn't it.
And it's you know, the Black Fans have never lost
to the Wallaroos, and they haven't. The Walleries have improved.
They got some notable results in the WXV. I think
they beat Canada and finished ahead of the Black Fans
(34:17):
even from memory, so look that improving. But on that's evidence,
I would say if the Black Ferns played Canada, France, England,
they'd lose to them all tomorrow. There were some impressive
individual performances. Porsha Woodman was good, Sylvia Brunt as class
and Georgia Miller what a talent she is to go
(34:39):
from the seventh scene to a bona fide open side flankerd,
to get turnovers at the breakdown, to roam on the
edge to score that brilliant individual try man, She is
a weapon. But collectively the attack was pretty poor and
there's some big question marks over that team.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Hiaden North, Yeah, I agree. In the players you've highlighted
the Wooden Wickliff. Her return to this team out of
retirement has been a game changer. We scored a score
seven against the USA hat trick on the weekend. It
was a birthday she is and you know, but with
single out players, two of them aren't full time Black
Funs fifteens players there. Sylvia Brunt is, Borceawyn Wickliffe is retired.
(35:20):
Georgia Miller is a sevens player, and these are the
kind of players that are elevating the Black Funds fifteens.
So I think that is a worry, maybe not for
the World Cup, maybe the you know, these players are
going to be the ket the World Cup. With the
long term health of fifteens in New Zealand, I think
it is a warrior. Georgia Miller was outstanding once again
on the weekend. Is a big difference maker. Her ability
to find time and space. I mean she's playing like
a center as an openside flanker, and that try she scored.
(35:41):
I saw Addie Savia and the comments of that trial
on Instagram, you know, giving her a bit of praise.
That was kind of the things that he does when
he can find those space. So she is absolutely electric
at the moment. So but as I say, it is
slightly worrying to me. If I take the World Cup
head off that these players that are in preasing are
not the regular fifteens players.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
It does shine a light on the next gen coming through.
And yeah, they're World Cups in forty days, so you're
not going to get a lot of shifts between now
and then. They don't have another game, I don't think no,
and so it's going to be a huge ass to
go up there and defend that title.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
That is a huge ask. They don't have another game,
You're right. They play Spain first up, and then they
play Japan, and then they've got Ireland, who they lost
to last year. So they do have two games that
they would expected to be win and win comfortably to
get them into what will then basically need to be
winning four games in four weeks to win the Rugby
World Cup. So luckily it's hope it's enough. Topic number
(36:43):
three spring Box trickery, genius or against the spirit of
the game. There were two instances that I'm sure our
listeners have caught up with the kickoff at the start
of the game that deliberately didn't go ten. It was
reclaimed by a Springbox player because they wanted to set
a scrum in midfield, and then there was the mini
or mock line out in the middle of the park,
(37:03):
which they attempted twice. From my understanding during that game
it scored a try off one. They've just go to
try off one of it. Yeah, absolutely one of those lineouts.
So I know the whole acy Breakfast and I met
Heats an occasional listener of the podcast, they had a
segment called penis or genius. Which way do you feel
was this genius from Russy Erasmus or whatnot?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (37:22):
Look, I love innovation of any kind, so more power
to them, and I wonder how much of it is.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
Diversion in a way.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
It's like, look look at what we can do, and
we've got this in our back pocket.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
Be wary of it.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
You know.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
It does force teams to think about ways to counter
their and to devote certain amount of time in their
build up to playing the spring box, two things that
they might pull out of their pocket even if they don't.
So look, I do not expect the spring box to
hand the ball over to the all Blacks on the
halfway line from a kickoff A You could argue it
(38:02):
was cynical because he's offside, but It's one thing to
do it against Italy, it's another to give the all
Blacks and attacking scram on halfway. What a platform that
is the setting up of the malls. I think that
is something we will see more from the spring Box
because it does suit their game. But that is much
(38:23):
easier to defend than a line out drive because you're
a lot further from the line generally, and if you
don't engage, it's truck and trailer and I'm pretty sure
you can collapse it because it's not from a lineout
as well, So there are ways to defend it. But innovation, Look,
this is russy. Whether it's the bomb squad or these
(38:45):
sorts of things, I love to see it.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I think, yeah, I think the innovation's ideal for the game.
And I think rugby Union and rugby League, if we
expand it, there is starved of innovation. It's become very homogenized,
very same same and South Africa Persson the boundaries and
when you see things like that, and when you see
things like can Roygards stray on the weekend, you stand
up on a plure because this is rugby being played
outside the norms and pushing the bound the lineout one
(39:10):
I would have an issue with. I know from a
line out the lift of the player's been lifted has
to come to ground immediately. Don't know if that's the
same if they're being held in midfield in open play,
so that would be something that needs to be clarified.
But I don't think it's a coincidence that they have
Yucco Piper and their staff that these sort of things
are happening, because he would know the law book like
(39:31):
the back of his hand. I know that Christoph Ridley
is involved with English rugby in a similar role, not
quite as embedded in the team as Yucko Piper. I'm
sure other unions are doing it. The All Blacks aren't,
but I wonder whether there's perhaps a recently retired referee
or someone that maybe they need to get on staff
and could be pushing that. I'm sure the ideas aren't
(39:51):
probably coming from Yucko Piper, but the sign off and
the actually, if you did it this way it is
legal probably is.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
I know the All Blacks have referees in camp to
come in and police them in training and look at
areas they want to improve, but to have someone on
staff full time would be would be very valuable. Just
something to note about the Springboks as well. They made
seventeen changes to their twenty three for the second ten
second Test against Italy, won forty five nil and they
(40:19):
played one man short for twenty minutes. No, it was
fourteen through fifteen for fifteen minutes. So while they're innovating,
their strength and depth as phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
As well, springbox second string team in July like the French.
Speaker 5 (40:36):
Oh yeah, I've got depth, don't they they do?
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Indeed?
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Topic number four David Kidwell appointed to the Highlanders in
a coaching role under Jamie Joseph came as a bit
of a surprise. I mean he's been around Argentina, they
went to Japan under Eddie Jones. Has been at Leicester
in the UK for a bit now coming to coach
as part of the Highlander stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Really liked this appointment.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
David Hill was probably unfeely best, had a great rugby
league playing Korea, probably in New Zealand, though remembered as
the coach of the Kiwison that diabolic or twenty seventeen
World Cup campaign. Is there still the mural and you're
all still there? The key is in the WII. They
lost to Fiji quarter finals utterly. Shambollock the head coaching
(41:22):
of international league team may not have been for him,
but he has found his niche as an assistant coach,
a defense coach at rugby union level. And I think
this is a pretty inspired performance from Jammie jose appointment
rather than Jammy Joseph.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
Yeah, I think we've seen.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
League tendancies come into rugby union and vice versa.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
But you look at the back door plays.
Speaker 4 (41:46):
A lot of professional teams used to create space for
their playmakers. That's stock standard in rugby league. And David
Cabwell I think was a big part of the Puma's
first one on New Zealand soil when christ Church that
defensive line, speed pressure had a lot of success alongside
(42:06):
Michael Checker.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
So yeah, I think that's a great appointment for the Haunas.
I think it'll be a point of difference and super Rugby.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
He replaces Dave Dylan, so good to see the hand
is making some moves and really intrigued to see what
kid Well can bring to that team.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Yeah, look, he wouldn't look out a place I don't
think in the future. All Black set up potentially David
Kibbles on the staff somewhere. As I say, I've been
very impressed by what he's done in the roles he's had,
so we'll onn't see. Maybe Jamie Joseph's lining up his
future team twenty twenty eight, who knows, who knows? We've
been through this before, haven't we. That'll do us for
(42:43):
Rugby Direct for another week. Thanks as always for those
of you that get in touch via social media. Dave
Paul being one of those big fans, always enjoy his
responses to episodes. Mcgheran as well bumped into mcindlading. Meant
to say this last week, but it's always good to
catch up with mc and get his thoughts on things
as well. So that'll do us for another week of
Rugby Direct. It's Pat cow Bells for the tron exactly.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
I know you'll have yours, I will not have mine.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
My thanks for the last and Bars English as well
for producing and thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and
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Speaker 1 (43:18):
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