July 22, 2025 • 46 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier wrap the third test against France and review the series as a whole - what did we learn and which players were the big movers across the three matches? We also look ahead to the Rugby Championship and where the All Blacks must improve.
We also dig into the latest on the R360 saga, the opening test of the Lions series and plenty more in the rugby world.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the Middle of Drum Dicky Scot try these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct pound by Excess Solutions elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Elligott Smith the
News Talk Zibi rugby commentator with me as always Leam Napier,
rugby writer for The New Zealand Herald. Liam Welcome in
the French Chest series is done. You've just spent an
hour answering the listeners questions on zidherld dot co dot NZ's.
(01:00):
I guess there's probably good opportunity to ask what the
pumps is feeling about this series before we get into
our thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, great to be back from the Mighty tron. Elliott's
interesting to note a few questions didn't make it past
the monitors the moderators, so it's always a lowell. Yes,
there's some common themes I guess around a few questions
around Carrifi and his size for test rugby questions around
(01:30):
the depth of our first fives, and I guess some
concerns about Damian McKenzie's performance in that Third Test in Hamilton,
Questions about when Richie Mwonga, Shannon Frazelle might be home
when leicesterfying a nooko, whether he's going to be fast tracked,
some concerns about the size and general of the All
Blacks forward pack. So yeah, I guess a couple of
(01:52):
common themes here to potentially pick up on.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Absolutely well, let's get into that third Test. Still Blacks
win it on the night twenty nine to nineteen, take
the series three to nil. But the scoreline certainly doesn't
reflect the nature of the game. They were down ten
nil early, they were down nineteen ten on the verge
of halftime, and then get the French school less in
the second spell. They if you look at the stats,
absolutely dominated in terms of the amount of tackles they
(02:17):
asked the French to make. But the All Blacks huffed
and puffed and it took a long time to break
down that French house it did.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I guess there were some late changes again, the All
Blacks going into that match had to change their wingers
with Riquowhanney pulling out with his hamstring and then Luke
Jacobson what fifteen minutes before kickoff getting injured in a
mall in an ocuous incident and pulling up blame of
his squad, so they had to reshuffle their starting loose trio,
Christian Leo Weady coming on to the bench as well.
(02:46):
So maybe there's some disruption there, But it was very evident,
wasn't it that the All Blacks had made ten changes.
They were clunky and it just didn't gel for the
bulk of that match though, down ten nil, they took
the lead in the for the first time in the
fifty second minute, so they really were chasing that game
(03:07):
from the outset.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
They were, and they'll put under a lot of pressure
by the French and heading into that game, it could
have gone two ways. You know, speculated that maybe the
French had one foot on the plane already. Well, it
certainly didn't appear like that. There was a lot of
chatter out of the French camp and out of the
French journalists that we've spoken to that this was the
best possible team of the people on the ground that
they could select for this game, and look, they turned
(03:30):
up for most of that game and put the All
Blacks under pressure. I thought their line speed was really impressive.
They defended really really well, especially in the first half,
made the most of All Blacks areas us keep that
scoreboard ticking over, and the All Blacks just struggled to
really get a foothold into that game until nine and
half time, probably when Antone and Brown scored that try.
Then Will Jordan's tribe was a little bit opportunistic, came
(03:51):
against the run of play, but it took a while
for the All Blacks to get it as a foothold
in that game it did.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It was quite reminiscent of the First Test, and that
speaks to your point about France bringing back the best
available talent. You know, we love left most of the
best tell on at home, but they brought back Galfi Coup,
the number eights and the starting tight hair prop, so
the most experienced figures on tour. And defensively they really
(04:19):
did put pressure on the All Blacks. They troubled their
breakdown again and the All Blacks just really struggled to
get going. They didn't have that four dominance that they
enjoyed and Wellington. The kicking game was a bit off,
a lot of back line moves, the ball going to
the ground, not finding the right man, some areas they
(04:41):
got away with a blatant forward pass and the lead
up to Anton Leina Brown's try. So look, you've got
to give the All Black some credit for not getting
overly frustrated, for finding the character and resolved to come
back and win that match, not panicking. But this did
feel like the All Blacks be against France B and
(05:02):
the quality of the match reflected that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, and I think we're seeing a drop off now
in two of the All Blacks first choice players in
some positions to their understudies and beyond. I speak of hooker,
I speak of half back, and to be honest, I
could speak of first five now between Boden Barre and
Damian McKenzie. Yes, mackenzie had a great game against Ireland
last year, but he had so many tests last year
(05:25):
where he failed to take grasp of the game and
again we saw that on Saturday night. So at hooker,
at half back and at ten. I think the drop
off from the All Blacks first choice players and Cody
Taylor in cam roy Garden Bowden Barrett to the next
players coming through, I think is now significant and I
think it's a worry. They're trying to build depth, and
they've got depth in terms of players, but I just
(05:48):
think Samasoni Takiyaha is now a bench option only. I
think starting him. There's been a couple of test matches
even before his a long injury love and back in
twenty three where it felt like maybe he had gone
backward in terms of his starting role, and now feels
like maybe bench is his best spot. When you albout
in to the starting team, I'm not sure we're getting
the best out of him. You know, missed the first
(06:09):
line out throw. Just didn't think he quite had the
best of games. Of course, is Rasama I thought had
a tricky night at the offers, didn't quite get the
game going on. I mentioned McKenzie as well, So what
do you make of that. I think there's a big,
big gap sort of developing in those positions, which is
a worry for the all blacks.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
There is and I agree. I guess the one kevet
I'd make is I feel for some players in that
they get one opportunity every now and then, and it's
the nature of the beast of Test rugby. Ultimately, you
want to be playing your best team all the time,
developing cohesion and combinations. And there was an argument that,
(06:46):
you know, while I support fully support the All Blacks
making these changes and giving them opportunities, a lot of
people would argue they just should play their best team
all the time because then you develop confidence, momentum, rhythm.
So I think it is really difficult to come in
when there's ten starting changes and look good immediately. I
expected that to be offset somewhere because of the established
(07:11):
combinations with the Chiefs. You know, you look at Ratimo
McKenzie to Pia and Leonnard Brown. There were a number
of Chiefs players in that team and I thought that
might help, but it didn't really. And to your point
about the drop off, it is significant Cody Taylor. We
only really appreciate just how important he is to that
(07:32):
team when he's not there. And Brody McAllister. You mentioned Takeaho,
and I agree, he hasn't come back the same player
from injury. And we saw that the Chiefs were the
Chiefs favoring Brody McAllister for much of the start of
this year in a starting capacity. Brodie McAllister on Test debut.
Maybe he was a bit overawed. He missed his first
(07:53):
three lineouts, scores that late try. It's a nice story
for him. But the depth, the established depth that hooker
is a concern. I suffer. Ol Moore is yet to
come back from his hamstring injury and he did perform
really well for All Blacks last year, not so well
for the Hurricanes. It didn't really kick on. I think
he was quite battered after last year from what I understand,
(08:16):
and Cam Roygard's yeah, there's no one within QUI of
in New Zealand rugby at the moment and I think
that speaks to the level that he's playing at his boots,
his sniping and Boden Barrett actually mentioned it's postmatch in
Wellington that he and Barrett's word to come remember exactly
(08:38):
what he said, but he said there's shades of DuPont
and his influence on the game. And you know that's
not me or you saying it, that's Boden Barrett. And
to be fair to Royguard, he upstaged DuPont when they
played France in November last year. So courtiz Rasma, there
is some real concerns. I think developing about whether he
is the number two because he was quite erratic, he
(09:00):
wasn't helped by the breakdown being a mess. Noah Hotham
came on and actually had a notable impact, but now
he's got a high call Sprain, So I totally agree.
I think hooker and half back the drop offs there
are significant. If Cody Taylor or cam Roy Guard were
to go down, there'd be big concerns.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Absolutely, I think that is a worry. So yeah, you're right,
and you're right that they have to develop the depth
and give these players opportunities. But we are learning a
little bit more about these players and learning that maybe
you know, they aren't you know, within touching distance of
those starters, and that's a worry for the All Blacks
in this you know four four four depth program that
(09:40):
Scott Robinson's running. Just explain that for deep in each
position over the next four years, so going back a
year to win a fourth Rugby World Cup for the
All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, I think it's important to put some context around
that because four for four people don't really just three
numbers of them, know what that is just just one
caveat to that players we touched on players who maybe
didn't make the step up some a Penny Female for
me was one guy who really did, and he been
waiting all series for that opportunity, and I think he
really took it. He was highly involved, a ball in hand,
(10:14):
steaming in from distance, making meters and yeah, highly involved.
I thought he was a real physically dominant performance that
the All Blacks have been waiting for from him, and
no real major discipline issues either, which has been a
real knock on his game. So I think the All
(10:34):
Blacks will likely go back to Tupouvai. But I really
liked what we saw from some of Penny Fino and
that six jersey, and for me, I think that jersey
is still his to grab.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Contestable. Absolutely, You're right, though I think we saw not
a lot off the bench from him in the previous
two weeks. He got a starting role and he was
one of those players that did take that opportunity. If
we look at the back line, we've touched on nine
and ten a bit, but midfield Quintepaire and Antonin Lenet
Brown thought len It Brown was probably better on the
first half than the second to Pire, I thought tried hard,
(11:07):
but struggled to get going and couldn't quite put his
mark on their game. So you know, I think that
third thing jersey for the All Blacks remains open or
remains a question mark as we head into the Rugby Championship.
Billy prop Dad two cracks it. I would have given
Billy Proper with third got it on the weekend and
given him just consistency in that jersey. They didn't, and
(11:29):
now you know there's a question mark. I suppose we
hit into Rugby Championship over who the All Blacks starting
center is.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I think it is Billy Proctor. It would be a
backward step for me to go back to Rico, but
I agree it is contestable, and I think about Quinti Pier.
Unfortunately for him that the Jordi Barrett almost not single
handedly won the All Black sat match, but wow, what
a performance off the bench. He had the try saving
(11:55):
tackle which could have really put the heat on the
last closing stages of that match, and then he busts
through the line, fends off the French replacement and sends
Brodie McCall next to the sticks. Artie Savill also had
a massive turnover on his own line after a McAllister overthrows,
so some really big plays there. But again the drop
(12:19):
off from Jordi Barrett and the impact that he made
coming on to compet to to Pie sort of speaks
to the difference there, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
It does, and that's a concern again for the All Blacks,
one player that I do want to touch on before
we get into more series overall stuff. Rubin Love mix
night of the office for him. What he did well,
I thought he did very well. What he didn't do well,
he didn't do well. Kicking game was a bit mixed.
The drop goal out of nowhere was a bit odd.
(12:49):
But I do enjoy what he brings to test match level.
I like there's a spark there, that an X factor
that not all players have, and I get the sense
he is going to master test rugby at some point.
But that was certainly perhaps a mixed night of the
office for Ruben Love.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, I agree. I think there was one instance in
particular where he I think he got fired the ball
possibly from McKenzie in the backfield and he had players
outside him and he put in a kick that was
a wee bit aimless. So I think it's just picking
and choosing your moments a little bit more rather than
having a pre ordained idea about what you're going to do.
But he is a very self assured twenty four year olds.
(13:29):
Not he's not a kid's but a man, but he
is a kid. In terms of Test rugby. That was
his second Test appearance. He'd only played ten minutes I
think it was fifteen maybe off the bench against Japan
on the wing. Scores two tries, so to have his
first appearance first starts at home, I agree. I think
(13:49):
he is going to develop into a real Test prospect
because he does have all that range of skill game understanding.
He's a very diligent professional. We've heard him talk about
wanting to be the best player in the world. How
many twenty four year old kids come out and say that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, exactly. And what he did in the injury Loffy
had around a breathing coach and mindfulness and all that
sort of thing that he's approached. He clearly wants to
be better and interesting to see what opportunities come his
way in the Rugby Championship.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Just quickly off the top of my head, there was
one question from the online thing before, someone querying whether
Jordie Barrett could be the All Blacks answer a center.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Okay, well what's the answer at second five? If you
move from to center.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Solving one problem in creating another.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah. I don't think he's played a lot of center,
but he has played for the All Blacks wing fallback
first five seconds, so he probably could pull it off.
I don't think that's the answer, but I just sort of.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah. I mean to pier, maybe could play twelve when
you have Barrit at thirteen. I'm not sure I would
like that combination necessarily, but I do think that that
thirteen role is still still up for grabs.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah. And I think in the midfield of articulate, it's
about combinations and complimentary combinations. You know, you think back
in time non Nolan Smith, just the Yin and the yang,
you know, the big destructive second five who developed a
brilliant distribution game over time and kicking game even and
Smith the real glue from a defensive perspective, from setting
(15:28):
up as outsides. He was never had top ends pace
or the most brilliant player. But that combination is what
the All Blacks are searching for. And I think with
Jordi and Proctor. That's probably the closest they're going to get.
Billy probably has some question marks about his size and physicality,
but he does compliment Jordi better than Rico indeed.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right, let's move on to what we learned from the
series from an All Blacks perspective. Well, do you learn
first and foremost that don't underest them at a French
second string team? Would that be listened?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Put some rest on the top fourteen name.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I think we don't see a lot of the top
fourteen and that's the same for New Zealand punters. So
how many players could you have named in those French
starting teams prior to the series? Very very few, a
handful And this is clearly depth that they've built over
a few seasons. Now, that's been a strong competition for
(16:31):
a number of years, but you look back and go
there's been other locations with the French have sent out
a mixed team to New Zealand in terms of experience,
and the All Blacks have belted them. Now, perhaps there's
a bit of an All Black strop off there as well,
but the depth of the French have built in this
competition now is very very good, and you know, the
gap between top positions and second string may not be
(16:54):
as big as it once was, so I think that's
one lesson. Yea. And they went out to Argentina last year,
same approach, went one on one and I'm not sure
if this year before, but certainly in recent times they
went out to Australia and very nearly anyone one this
probably should have won that series there with a similar
type squad. So yeah, they do have depth and talents.
(17:16):
But look, let me ask you this, would the All
Blacks have beaten one of the series against the first
choice French team?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Hard to know? Hard to know? I mean they pushed
them to within one point last year in Paris, similar
group of players, so probably would have been to one
one way, well the other, don't know which way you.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, I think it would have been on a real
knife edge because your Blacks are scratchy to start the
year and they certainly wouldn't have been able to make
ten changes, ten starting changes. It would have been balls
to the wall best team and down to the whyah match.
I think two one either way. All right, let's talk
about the All Blacks. One we learned from the series.
(18:04):
Who is your best player over the course of the
three matches, Probably Will Jordan. I think it just doesn't
matter where he plays, full back wing, he's everywhere. And
what's he scored forty two and forty four. I think
that's right something like that. Just an absolutely phenomenal strike
rate just keeps coming, doesn't he And it's not just
(18:26):
his finishing ability, it's the way he injection himself into
the line. I think he has influenced his voice. Yeah,
he sets the bar Ardie Severe was very good. I
don't think he was great in Hamilton. There was that
advised I think left foot ship kick off the line
(18:48):
out that he would like to have again and got
stripped of the ball on another occasion. But he was
outstanding in Wellington in particular, and Fabian Holland shout out
to a test Rockie to come in and play three
consecutive eighty minute performances.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I have Will Jordan and I had Cam roy
Guard and came Royguard only played two matches, but I
thought because we touched on earlier as influence in both
of those victories was pretty key. Biggest mover in the
series from an All Blacks perspective.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Probably Fabian Holland comes in, yeah, having not played him,
and it's hard to think of a rookie Wallace to
tc similar sort of scenario.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Not longer for Walls didn't it because he only got
the option off the bench and then didn't play The
Argentina test came in for Savrigal didn't play off in
the starting sock year.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's right. But once he was in, he was in,
he was and he became the All Blacks Player of
the Year. The only thing I'd say about Fabian is
he's this massive unit, right and exceptional the line out
and huge engine to play three eighty minute performances. I
think he can still get more from his frame physicality
to really there's occasions he sort of concedes when he's
(19:59):
got the ball, and I'd like to see him bust
through the line or just get a wee bit more
from his frame, particularly looking ahead to teams like the
bo But yeah, are the big movers. I guess you could.
You can make a case for Tupu Vai in terms
of his switch. Well, there were there were six rookies,
(20:22):
right who anyone in particular other than Holland that really
stood out of that.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Group Holland is the obvious one, given he played three
eighty minute performances since making his debut. I thought Kittyfi
grew in each performance that he had minutes off the bench,
and Dunedin Wellington then starting. Still have concerns I guess
around his size at Test match level, but you can't
doubt the size of his heart and his hunger to
(20:48):
be better and and be a Test player. I still
think this question marks over what role he has for
the All Blacks over the course of the rest of
the season. But other than that, you know, Tavatavanawai had
a couple of cameos off the bench. Hard to judge
him too much, but didn't make too much of an
influence on the Test game. McAllister mixed as well. So
(21:13):
Leo Willie again jury out similar to Karefi. So I'd
go Holland and then yeah, question marks over the rest.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, I don't know if the other ones. The other
one was Oli Norris. I thought he was good without
being great, and I actually thought George Bauer I think
he was penalized in his first scrum but did make
a notable impact when he came on off the bench
in Hamilton so Oli Norris. Perhaps another level will go
to from a scrummaging perspective, and I agree otherwise, I
(21:44):
don't know if we It is hard, isn't it, Because
you hear all the time about your Blacks environment being overwhelming.
They've got to come in and take in all this information.
Their flowing phone's blowing up. It's very emotional time you
realize a dream is a lot to absorb. Some players
handle that better than others. And yeah, Tavannaha, I think
(22:07):
it's an interesting scenari when we can't the head and
we wore in terms of the Rugby Championships squad, but
six midfielders did feel like a lot his debut and
Wellington had two cracks at the cherry. I think what
we saw overall when you look at him and Karefi
as a step up, isn't it? It is?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
For Tavata, I felt like he was kind of from
a standing start on a number of occasions, and I
don't think that's where he's best utilized, just in terms
of the all Blacks attacking shape and how they're playing
this season. Is that seen from the Highlanders when he
comes from a little bit deeper on attack, then he
can have a real influence when players stand a little
deep at the all black stand quite tight at the moment.
I don't think that necessarily suits him. We didn't see
(22:46):
a lot of line breaks from Tavatava Nahai over the
course of the time that he had on the park.
Certainly wasn't making those defensive turnovers that he had. Kifi
similarly mentioned this around the breakdown when he spoke after
the game on Saturday night and the medium zone around
(23:07):
the breakdown and how different it is at Test level.
You know how many poaches did it get in Super
rugby this year. It's just so much harder. Your timing's
got to be perfect, you've got to be right on
that ball, and sort on Super rugby there was a
lot of reward for players on the ball from the opposition.
Don't get that as much in Test rugby at the moment.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
No, that's right, just on that four four four scenarios
worth noting. I think sixteen rookies under Scott Robertson since
he took over last year, and you're always going to
get that to a degree post World Cup cycle when
you have a lot of veterans moving on. But I
think ten last year six this year, that's going to
(23:49):
decrease and it's going to carry on that theme as
you get closer to the World Cup. Sixteen is quite
a lot. I think some have taken their chances, some haven't,
But there's a clear plan there isn't there to develop
that debt, to bring through new talents to build for
deep So you can go to those players and they
(24:10):
have had that experience at test rugby, they're not going
to be having their first weeks coming into a major
majors test match.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah. I think that's probably an area where the All
Blacks didn't quite develop in the last World Cup cycle.
They can blame COVID or whatever it might be around
that and some of the opportunities they didn't have, but
you they probably didn't quite get their bench right at
times during that last cycle and some of that depth. Hopefully,
you know, some of these moves of the next couple
(24:38):
of years can confix that.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, and probably missed a bit of a trick last year.
While there's ten rookies, they definitely missed opportunities such as
the Italy game to bring through players to give them
that exposure. So I'm not going to sit here and
knock what they did in Hamilton. While the performance wasn't there,
that was the right game to try and promote fringe
prospects and give them that exposure.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, and I think Robertson said pretty much that they
should have done that last year. Bit of a mere
culpa that they didn't quite get that right in the
Italy Week last year and they had some bad bodies
by the end of it. Give us a grade from
the series before we taught the Rugby Championship out of team.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I'm going to go six because I think the All
Black's only got their performance to the expected standard once
one from three and it's that context of being a
second string French team. Yes, they have talent and depth,
but I think given the nature of the opposition while
the All Blacks are starting the year, I expected more
(25:37):
and the performance in Wellington showed the level that they
can get to and they only got there once.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I'm going to go seven. Slightly friendly marketing the standards
Rugby Championship squad. It is going to be named the
fourth of August, which is a Monday. We've heard that
a lot of the players, or at least some of
the players are going to play a bit of NPC
that opening round which preceeds the All Black squad naming,
So a good opportunity for some players there to get
(26:06):
some minutes under their belt, maybe make some returns from injuries.
Thirty six Strong Square be named for the Rugby Championship. Now,
there's been a few commings and goings in terms of
injuries into that all back squad over the course of
the last three weeks, with players injured and moving in
and out. But where do you see the Rugby Championship
squad going to and what are the fixes that needed
(26:26):
by Scott Robinson and co.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
It's very much injury to excuse me, injury dependent, isn't it?
If we run through them. Boden Barrett fractured to the
same hand that he did for the Blues and Super
Rugby that sidelined him for a month. So all expectations
are he will be on the plane to Argentina and
should be available for that first test. That's why they
(26:50):
pulled on from the bench. In Hamilton, people were not
so sure about Mighty Williams Wallace A teas sounds like
he's on track, but don't know when he'll be in
that Rugby Championship squad when he's available. Not too sure,
same with us are for armor. Peter Luckey is coming
back from injury. Caleb Clark sideline for up to two
(27:11):
months waiting one updates from Noah Hotham and Tyro Lomax.
Lomax needs an X ray on his thumb, so some
big ins and outs there. Scott Barrett's coming back will
be available for Argentina. What we do know is the
Eel Blacks will need at least another winger because Caleb
(27:32):
Clark won't be there and they were extremely light and
found wanting exposed with their squad selection I think, and
the nature of it by going to light in the wingers,
too light with the loose forwards and carrying too many midfielders.
So you're looking at guys like Ammonia and Nadawa potentially
coming into that squad. But the All Blacks didn't have
(27:53):
a lot of faith in him, did They only really
played him when they had to, and Wellington then went
away from him. So do they look outside the squad
at a Leroy Carter or a Schaffee Harckey perhaps yep,
And then I think you Luke Jacobson is another one.
You wouldn't think it's a major long term injury, but
(28:13):
I think you need additional loose forwards and outside backs.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yep. Simon Parker is a question mark for me if
he's fit now. He was out through injury, wasn't considered
through injury. He's the kind of body that we talked
about a bit earlier on that the All Blacks may
be lacking size, or at least that's what some of
the fans on your herol Q and A was sugescing size.
I agree, and Simon Parker is that bigger body that
maybe the All Blacks do need in their pack or
(28:41):
is worthy of having a look at for the Rugby Championship.
Ethan Blackett it could be another one that comes back
in maybe, although they moved away from him a little bit.
Peter Lukeye if he's fit, so there's a few interesting
questions there. If No Hotham isn't available, who is jumping
on the plane as the third half pack we touched on.
(29:02):
I guess depth at first five and hooker and wing
is a real touch point. But that's another one, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
You're looking you're reaching towards guys like from La Christy
probably because unless you're going to promote Kyle Preston, who
does bring a point of difference and that he kicks
off both feet and played very well when he did
play for the Crusaders this year. But I just feel
(29:33):
like the All Blacks are probably reluctant to bring in
another rookie at half back, and they will probably like
the idea like they did last year, of having a
more experienced type figure. That's why they selected t. J.
Petnara from La Christy has been there. I would go Preston,
but I think they will lean towards a Christie type character.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
They kind of know what they're getting from Christy, and
if you're talking about this four four four concept, then
to me, developing another player that could be there in
twenty seven is probably the more logical option for me.
I get why they would go back to Christy, but
I'll be looking similar to you at Kyle Preston or
potentially told for Funachi.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Was another one, yeah, of all the players in that
ends that game, I thought he actually had quite a
lively impact and he brings a point of difference of
his sniping is passing around the fringes. But he just
hasn't been on the radar at all under Robertson, and
he hasn't kicked on from where he was three years ago.
I mean he's eligible for Tonga later this year. That's
how long his gap between international appearance has been. It
(30:39):
felt luck he was really coming up in that twenty
two season and his plateau big time. And whether they
go back to the world there is an interesting question,
as you say, Bigg's port of a difference, but I'm
not sure whether that's what the All Blacks are after
Les defining and Looki's another one. He's back home. He
will play for Tasman in the NPC, and there was
(31:01):
a story from Paul Cully in the Post a few
weeks maybe even a month back, that suggested that he
will not actually be available or selected until the Northern Tour,
So that kind of makes sense and that he I
do like players having to come back and play in
New Zealand rather than walk straight back into the All
Black team. But you do wonder if it was a
(31:23):
Richie Mulong or whether he'd be made to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I suspect fining a look who probably wan Look. We
talked about him and some of the question marks at center.
He's played a lot of center for Toulon in the
last couple of years. Maybe he is a long too
answer at center, but the All Black also have problems
on the wings at the moment, so I mean he
can play multiple positions. That's one of the very, very
good things about him. So it wouldn't surprise me if
(31:47):
he's back and soon that rather than later, especially with
the injuries to Caleb Clark, they could massage it a
little bit. Go oh, you played, you won two games
of Tasman, come back in.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah. I think if they got another injury, it would
not be surprised to see him fast checked. For me,
I don't know if he is a long term answer
at center, while he did play a lot there for Toulon,
because as I mentioned before, that just that complimentary combination
that you ideally like in the midfield. And I don't
know if Leicester is the guy that will be making
(32:14):
those outsides look good putting them away. But what an
asset potentially to have on the bench to bring on
late like he's he's a similar prototype to a degree
to a tother tough nahwa Isn't he a big body? Destructive?
Can play as you mentioned wing and center. Yeah, I
think he's a great asset and Razor does like big bodies,
(32:38):
whether it's on the wing or in the midfield.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Absolutely right, that'll do us the first half of Rugby Direct.
Back with our final four after the scurtsy of our
friends that Access solutions.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Every drive has sixty second, every tackle tackles get up again.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Afore after. It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for the final four.
And look, we've talked about it previously on the podcast,
but it's time to talk about R three sixty again.
Is this actually going to happen? There's a lot of
chatte last week that Roger to I Vasa Shek have
signed him, or at least have approached him and thrown
something at him in terms of an offer. Obviously, the
(33:31):
story's been out there. What's your take on this, limb.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I think it will happen. There does seem to be
growing momentum behind it, but I don't know if it's
a major threat. I think it's telling that they're targeting
league guys as their marquee signings and Roger to Varsa
Shek is likely to be. I think it's he's kind
(33:57):
of to the Warriors until the end of twenty twenty six.
He Yeah, he made the All Blacks, but he wasn't
a raving success story in rugby union, and I think
that's the type of guy that they're going to be targeting,
because any player that goes to R three sixty should
it get off the ground is not going to be
able to play Test rugby at this stage, So that
rules out all the best players in the world. You
(34:20):
may get someone towards the end of their career go
and cash out, or somebody on the fringe of Test rugby,
maybe Hoskins Tutu type character that you can sell to
the masses. But yeah, just the concept of forming franchises
and traveling around the world, I do see it struggling
to get off the ground. So for me, it's not
(34:42):
a surprise that that's starting to target league guys, and
that's where a lot of the nervousness is coming from.
Rugby League. Doesn't seem like the established Test Nations and
Rugby are really looking over their shoulder at this at
the stage.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, it doesn't, and it feels like rugby league a
panicing a little bit because they don't really have an
equivalent of this. You know, Rugby and New Zealand has
had to deal with France and Japan in recent years,
you know, putting big money in front of a lot
of players in rugby league. Now the Super League is
a two bit competition that basically isn't what it was
(35:17):
twenty thirty years ago where players would go over and
be given big money. There's just not enough money in
that competition now, all behind rugby league in England or
the UKs to do that. This players at the end
their career might still go but it's very much not
what it was in terms of some of those players
going over. So the Narrael hasn't had to deal with it.
They seem like they're a bit panicky over it. But look,
(35:37):
if you are three sixty and your marquee signing at
this point is robbed the Twi Vasishek playing union where
we saw that two or three years ago and didn't work.
So I'm not sure where the interest levels will come from,
where the money's coming from. Obviously a lot of talk
about the Saudis, but they haven't officially confirmed that they're involved.
Not sure I'd trust something that was involved like Tindall
(35:58):
as far as I could throw it. That's yeah, all
of it feels rather off to me.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, there's not a lot of substance there at this point.
But look, if the substance comes in terms of the
one million dollar offer that they're talking about for Roger
to of Arsisk, if those sort of offers are on
the table for more players, it could potentially hurt competitions
like Super Rugby and not maybe the top fourteen or
(36:29):
you know, the English Premiership. That's where it could have
an impact if those sort of offers are consistent. But
there's still major question marks about the substance behind this.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
The one area where it could have an effect in
a good way, I think if there is some Saudi
influence here and they're looking to provide a product that
is entertaining in terms of R three sixty is putting
a little bit pressure on world rugby around some of
the rules in the sport and cleaning up some of that.
(37:01):
And if they're going to go, we're going to be
we're going to make tries seven points, We're going to
promote attacking rugby we're going to minimize the stoppages. You
can't take shots. Whatever it might be that could drive change.
Now some of it might seem gimmicky, but if they're
willing to drive, because their focus will be entertainment product.
Now they've got the sad he's got to live and
none watchers live. It's two men their dog watching it
(37:24):
on TV. They get crowds at the courses occasionally, but
their focus is on the entertainment product from the start
to the finish. You can't tell me that test rapy
in the way that is being played at the moment
is promoting an attacking product versus a law guided product.
So that's where maybe they might be able to cut
through some of the bullshit that's currently going on in
World and Wild Rugby.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
That's right saying hey, this is you know, if the
fans start agitating for a change that they've seen somewhere else,
well it's going to be pretty hard to dismiss that.
And there's a similar sort of concept brewing around the
Sevens and franchise Sevens and what they are actually looking
at compared to what's been done globally for years in
(38:04):
terms of a three day event they're talking about staging
it all on one day, having straight knockouts from the
outset different sort of rules around it as well. So
from a as you say it like an agitation perspective
to drive meaningful change. From as a better product, it
could have a place, but who knows whether it actually
(38:24):
gets off the ground.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We shall see topic number two of the Fist Lions
test in the books, and that was comfortably won by
the Lions. Maybe not on the school board, but certainly
in terms of the way they went about their business,
maybe apart from the last twenty twenty five minutes when
it got a bit hairy. I questioned last week whether
this was the worst lines to ever. Still haven't seen
(38:45):
evidence against that. There's the Pacivica Island team playing the
lines tonight, but pretty much got what we expected on
Saturday night. The lines are too good. The world has
been good enough. Yours please.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
In basically every aspect wasn't it physicality at the breakdown,
pace ball skills, The lines were up something like twenty
four and the game's done. The Wallabies come back and
score a couple of late tries to put some respectability
in the scoreboard, but it wasn't really a contest, and
(39:18):
that's the first test. I'd expect the Lions to get better.
I'd be making some changes for the Wallaby straight off
the bat. Angus Bell, Tate McDermott Andrew Callaway, I think
I'd all be bringing them in to start. But it
really was a lightweight Wallaby's team on paper. Saw that
in the lead up to that game and just didn't
give them a show of winning that test based on
(39:40):
who was on paper. No Rob Valentini, no will skelt him.
A real lack of size in that pack, and it's
just really hard to see where the Wallabies can better
that Lion's team.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Nick Champions de Crapp and I thought was actually pretty
handy at blindside, but it didn't miss Valentini. To be honest,
I'm putting James o connor in at ten this week.
There's a must win for Joe Schmidt. You've got to
throw all those players you mentioned in there your hope
like hell, that Rob val team, he's ready to go,
and I'm putting James O'Connor in a ten. You can't
you go and develop Ben Donaldson or Tomliner or whoever
(40:14):
it is. James O'Connor has been there and done that
at Tesla before. I'm going to Connor this week at ten.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
I don't mind that British Norrish Lions series is not
a time to throw in a rookie ten. And yeah,
Australia don't have great options there and I've been hurt
by injuries and had to change their plans, but it
was very evident that that was you know, Tomliner's introduction
to Test rugby did some good things, but he looked
(40:44):
rattled at times as well, and it's such a pivotal position.
So yeah, I think everyone probably the longer this tour
went on, the more everyone's expected three nil and I
think the more interest is going to be sucked out
of it unless the Wallabies can pull a massive upset
(41:04):
off this week top.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Of number three Johnny Gibbs, then you Chiefs coach. This
is from a no surprise file. Everyone expected it from
the moment Claim Willan was announced that he's going to Munster.
A good appointment I think for the Chiefs. Bit of
continuity reigns to be seen whether they can get away
from that bride'smaid tag that has followed them around for
a few seasons. Now maybe Gibbs is the kind of
(41:26):
coach that can push and beyond.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
That, Yeah, potentially. I think Jerry's probably out on Johno
as a head coach. He's been very good when he's
been Ford's coaches, but he was which is not uncommon.
Sent packing from his last gig in France. It's pretty
ruthless industry up there, with their club owners demanding certain things.
(41:48):
If they don't get them, they'll they'll pull the trigger.
So I think it will be a challenge for him
stepping up from assistant to head coach. And the Chiefs,
while for a lack of titles, have been very good
in their consistency. So a big challenge for him. But look,
that's squad, the rosters very stable. Will he had the
(42:09):
benefit of being there so continuity will help. And yeah,
interesting to see if he can get something more from them.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
You've mentioned before, you know, the Crusaders not looking outside
their region.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, well the Chiefs if it doesn't go well, they
could be guilty of that as well. I don't know
did they advertise it. It doesn't really seem like they did.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I don't think they did. I might be wrong. Simon
Grafis is listening. You can correct us on that, but.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, they obviously identified very early that they had what
they felt to be strong internal candidates. I think Roger
Randall and who's the Canterbury Muddy Book. Yeah, he was
involved with the Chiefs, so I think they would have
interviewed or spoke to those and obviously gone with John O.
But yeah, I think in any job you should throw
(42:57):
it open and see who's out there. Wales have finally
made they're appointed their coach Steve Tandy with.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I thought he was there replaceable for a moment. Galls,
they're replaceable. Gatlin.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Have they pulled down the gate yet?
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Oh well maybe you could pull it down when we
get there in November. We picture from the rugby direct fans.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
But that's got to be the biggest job in world
sport almost, doesn't it? Turning around Wales that there's such
a dysfunctional.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Hey, Steve Tanny might have them humming by week four
of the Automnations Championship when the all blecks are off,
they might be world beaters.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Who knows, he's a proven defensive coach, but again, stick
it stepping up to test rugby in a head coaching
role in Wales. Yeah, good luck son all right.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Topic number four. The New Zealand under twenties lose to
South Africa in the World Championship final, first time they're
in the final. The New Zealand team since twenty seventeen
beaten by South Africa. Just you know, we're trouble by
red card in the first half and felt like they
were behind the eight ball a lot of that game.
(44:04):
What did you make of their campaign and what do
we take.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Out of it? I think it's a win. Anytime you
lose the final, you're going to be disappointed, aren't you
go there to claim a title. But it's been a
long time and I think it's a big improvement on
where this twenties team has been. And let's not forget
they had a changeing head coach a matter of months before,
(44:30):
weeks before going to this tournament, which could have been
hugely disruptive. But I think it's a good result.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, I think so. I think probably in some ways
too much waitings put on the under twenties and how
what the results are. I think it's more about pathways
and players. This is the only time that they'll play together,
you know, groups by age and so when you get
to senior level, you make the cut where you don't.
It's not a matter of how old you are, So
(45:01):
I think a little bit too much weightings given to that.
But what I did see was, you know, a lot
of systems that worked in terms of the way they played.
Beat the South African team in the Rugby Championship edition
of the under twenties a few months ago in South Africa.
So I think there's some positive signs. It's more about
the pathways than the players that are coming through, I think.
(45:21):
And there looks to be a promising group of players.
A couple of really promising young hookers Manamu let You
from the Crusader has already had a couple of games
the Crusaders eli Odin Ryan, Jill Pleger and a couple
of the locks look really good as well. So there's
some players there that are promising. A couple of outside
backs too.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Yeah, and shout out to Tane Harvey Fox and boy
who was on the bench for the final. He I'm
pretty sure he's playing for South on an NPC. He's
in the Highlanders system. So yeah, pretty amazing to see
a small town kid who captains Parmeerson North Boys high
in the mix.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
They will he now replaced you as sort of you
know the Naper club rooms. We were replaced by him.
Well what's the go there?
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Well down to Peking I've got you know, Doug Allen
was you know, multi sport champion and he was on
the boat for Team New Zealand. So you know, I'm
just on the bottom of the shoe mate. It can
be the Foxton's greatest hits.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
All right, Well, there'll do us for Rguy rate for
another week. Thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and your
business to a higher level, and thanks to Last and
Bars English for producing. Where We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
For more from News Talks ed B listen live on
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You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the Middle of Drum Dicky Scot try these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliot Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct pound by Excess Solutions elevating you
and your business to a higher level. Elligott Smith the
News Talk Zibi rugby commentator with me as always Leam Napier,
rugby writer for The New Zealand Herald. Liam Welcome in
the French Chest series is done. You've just spent an
hour answering the listeners questions on zidherld dot co dot NZ's.
(01:00):
I guess there's probably good opportunity to ask what the
pumps is feeling about this series before we get into
our thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Yeah, great to be back from the Mighty tron. Elliott's
interesting to note a few questions didn't make it past
the monitors the moderators, so it's always a lowell. Yes,
there's some common themes I guess around a few questions
around Carrifi and his size for test rugby questions around
(01:30):
the depth of our first fives, and I guess some
concerns about Damian McKenzie's performance in that Third Test in Hamilton,
Questions about when Richie Mwonga, Shannon Frazelle might be home
when leicesterfying a nooko, whether he's going to be fast tracked,
some concerns about the size and general of the All
Blacks forward pack. So yeah, I guess a couple of
(01:52):
common themes here to potentially pick up on.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Absolutely well, let's get into that third Test. Still Blacks
win it on the night twenty nine to nineteen, take
the series three to nil. But the scoreline certainly doesn't
reflect the nature of the game. They were down ten
nil early, they were down nineteen ten on the verge
of halftime, and then get the French school less in
the second spell. They if you look at the stats,
absolutely dominated in terms of the amount of tackles they
(02:17):
asked the French to make. But the All Blacks huffed
and puffed and it took a long time to break
down that French house it did.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
I guess there were some late changes again, the All
Blacks going into that match had to change their wingers
with Riquowhanney pulling out with his hamstring and then Luke
Jacobson what fifteen minutes before kickoff getting injured in a
mall in an ocuous incident and pulling up blame of
his squad, so they had to reshuffle their starting loose trio,
Christian Leo Weady coming on to the bench as well.
(02:46):
So maybe there's some disruption there, But it was very evident,
wasn't it that the All Blacks had made ten changes.
They were clunky and it just didn't gel for the
bulk of that match though, down ten nil, they took
the lead in the for the first time in the
fifty second minute, so they really were chasing that game
(03:07):
from the outset.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
They were, and they'll put under a lot of pressure
by the French and heading into that game, it could
have gone two ways. You know, speculated that maybe the
French had one foot on the plane already. Well, it
certainly didn't appear like that. There was a lot of
chatter out of the French camp and out of the
French journalists that we've spoken to that this was the
best possible team of the people on the ground that
they could select for this game, and look, they turned
(03:30):
up for most of that game and put the All
Blacks under pressure. I thought their line speed was really impressive.
They defended really really well, especially in the first half,
made the most of All Blacks areas us keep that
scoreboard ticking over, and the All Blacks just struggled to
really get a foothold into that game until nine and
half time, probably when Antone and Brown scored that try.
Then Will Jordan's tribe was a little bit opportunistic, came
(03:51):
against the run of play, but it took a while
for the All Blacks to get it as a foothold
in that game it did.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
It was quite reminiscent of the First Test, and that
speaks to your point about France bringing back the best
available talent. You know, we love left most of the
best tell on at home, but they brought back Galfi Coup,
the number eights and the starting tight hair prop, so
the most experienced figures on tour. And defensively they really
(04:19):
did put pressure on the All Blacks. They troubled their
breakdown again and the All Blacks just really struggled to
get going. They didn't have that four dominance that they
enjoyed and Wellington. The kicking game was a bit off,
a lot of back line moves, the ball going to
the ground, not finding the right man, some areas they
(04:41):
got away with a blatant forward pass and the lead
up to Anton Leina Brown's try. So look, you've got
to give the All Black some credit for not getting
overly frustrated, for finding the character and resolved to come
back and win that match, not panicking. But this did
feel like the All Blacks be against France B and
(05:02):
the quality of the match reflected that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, and I think we're seeing a drop off now
in two of the All Blacks first choice players in
some positions to their understudies and beyond. I speak of hooker,
I speak of half back, and to be honest, I
could speak of first five now between Boden Barre and
Damian McKenzie. Yes, mackenzie had a great game against Ireland
last year, but he had so many tests last year
(05:25):
where he failed to take grasp of the game and
again we saw that on Saturday night. So at hooker,
at half back and at ten. I think the drop
off from the All Blacks first choice players and Cody
Taylor in cam roy Garden Bowden Barrett to the next
players coming through, I think is now significant and I
think it's a worry. They're trying to build depth, and
they've got depth in terms of players, but I just
(05:48):
think Samasoni Takiyaha is now a bench option only. I
think starting him. There's been a couple of test matches
even before his a long injury love and back in
twenty three where it felt like maybe he had gone
backward in terms of his starting role, and now feels
like maybe bench is his best spot. When you albout
in to the starting team, I'm not sure we're getting
the best out of him. You know, missed the first
(06:09):
line out throw. Just didn't think he quite had the
best of games. Of course, is Rasama I thought had
a tricky night at the offers, didn't quite get the
game going on. I mentioned McKenzie as well, So what
do you make of that. I think there's a big,
big gap sort of developing in those positions, which is
a worry for the all blacks.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
There is and I agree. I guess the one kevet
I'd make is I feel for some players in that
they get one opportunity every now and then, and it's
the nature of the beast of Test rugby. Ultimately, you
want to be playing your best team all the time,
developing cohesion and combinations. And there was an argument that,
(06:46):
you know, while I support fully support the All Blacks
making these changes and giving them opportunities, a lot of
people would argue they just should play their best team
all the time because then you develop confidence, momentum, rhythm.
So I think it is really difficult to come in
when there's ten starting changes and look good immediately. I
expected that to be offset somewhere because of the established
(07:11):
combinations with the Chiefs. You know, you look at Ratimo
McKenzie to Pia and Leonnard Brown. There were a number
of Chiefs players in that team and I thought that
might help, but it didn't really. And to your point
about the drop off, it is significant Cody Taylor. We
only really appreciate just how important he is to that
(07:32):
team when he's not there. And Brody McAllister. You mentioned Takeaho,
and I agree, he hasn't come back the same player
from injury. And we saw that the Chiefs were the
Chiefs favoring Brody McAllister for much of the start of
this year in a starting capacity. Brodie McAllister on Test debut.
Maybe he was a bit overawed. He missed his first
(07:53):
three lineouts, scores that late try. It's a nice story
for him. But the depth, the established depth that hooker
is a concern. I suffer. Ol Moore is yet to
come back from his hamstring injury and he did perform
really well for All Blacks last year, not so well
for the Hurricanes. It didn't really kick on. I think
he was quite battered after last year from what I understand,
(08:16):
and Cam Roygard's yeah, there's no one within QUI of
in New Zealand rugby at the moment and I think
that speaks to the level that he's playing at his boots,
his sniping and Boden Barrett actually mentioned it's postmatch in
Wellington that he and Barrett's word to come remember exactly
(08:38):
what he said, but he said there's shades of DuPont
and his influence on the game. And you know that's
not me or you saying it, that's Boden Barrett. And
to be fair to Royguard, he upstaged DuPont when they
played France in November last year. So courtiz Rasma, there
is some real concerns. I think developing about whether he
is the number two because he was quite erratic, he
(09:00):
wasn't helped by the breakdown being a mess. Noah Hotham
came on and actually had a notable impact, but now
he's got a high call Sprain, So I totally agree.
I think hooker and half back the drop offs there
are significant. If Cody Taylor or cam Roy Guard were
to go down, there'd be big concerns.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Absolutely, I think that is a worry. So yeah, you're right,
and you're right that they have to develop the depth
and give these players opportunities. But we are learning a
little bit more about these players and learning that maybe
you know, they aren't you know, within touching distance of
those starters, and that's a worry for the All Blacks
in this you know four four four depth program that
(09:40):
Scott Robinson's running. Just explain that for deep in each
position over the next four years, so going back a
year to win a fourth Rugby World Cup for the
All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Yeah, I think it's important to put some context around
that because four for four people don't really just three
numbers of them, know what that is just just one
caveat to that players we touched on players who maybe
didn't make the step up some a Penny Female for
me was one guy who really did, and he been
waiting all series for that opportunity, and I think he
really took it. He was highly involved, a ball in hand,
(10:14):
steaming in from distance, making meters and yeah, highly involved.
I thought he was a real physically dominant performance that
the All Blacks have been waiting for from him, and
no real major discipline issues either, which has been a
real knock on his game. So I think the All
(10:34):
Blacks will likely go back to Tupouvai. But I really
liked what we saw from some of Penny Fino and
that six jersey, and for me, I think that jersey
is still his to grab.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Contestable. Absolutely, You're right, though I think we saw not
a lot off the bench from him in the previous
two weeks. He got a starting role and he was
one of those players that did take that opportunity. If
we look at the back line, we've touched on nine
and ten a bit, but midfield Quintepaire and Antonin Lenet
Brown thought len It Brown was probably better on the
first half than the second to Pire, I thought tried hard,
(11:07):
but struggled to get going and couldn't quite put his
mark on their game. So you know, I think that
third thing jersey for the All Blacks remains open or
remains a question mark as we head into the Rugby Championship.
Billy prop Dad two cracks it. I would have given
Billy Proper with third got it on the weekend and
given him just consistency in that jersey. They didn't, and
(11:29):
now you know there's a question mark. I suppose we
hit into Rugby Championship over who the All Blacks starting
center is.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I think it is Billy Proctor. It would be a
backward step for me to go back to Rico, but
I agree it is contestable, and I think about Quinti Pier.
Unfortunately for him that the Jordi Barrett almost not single
handedly won the All Black sat match, but wow, what
a performance off the bench. He had the try saving
(11:55):
tackle which could have really put the heat on the
last closing stages of that match, and then he busts
through the line, fends off the French replacement and sends
Brodie McCall next to the sticks. Artie Savill also had
a massive turnover on his own line after a McAllister overthrows,
so some really big plays there. But again the drop
(12:19):
off from Jordi Barrett and the impact that he made
coming on to compet to to Pie sort of speaks
to the difference there, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
It does, and that's a concern again for the All Blacks,
one player that I do want to touch on before
we get into more series overall stuff. Rubin Love mix
night of the office for him. What he did well,
I thought he did very well. What he didn't do well,
he didn't do well. Kicking game was a bit mixed.
The drop goal out of nowhere was a bit odd.
(12:49):
But I do enjoy what he brings to test match level.
I like there's a spark there, that an X factor
that not all players have, and I get the sense
he is going to master test rugby at some point.
But that was certainly perhaps a mixed night of the
office for Ruben Love.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, I agree. I think there was one instance in
particular where he I think he got fired the ball
possibly from McKenzie in the backfield and he had players
outside him and he put in a kick that was
a wee bit aimless. So I think it's just picking
and choosing your moments a little bit more rather than
having a pre ordained idea about what you're going to do.
But he is a very self assured twenty four year olds.
(13:29):
Not he's not a kid's but a man, but he
is a kid. In terms of Test rugby. That was
his second Test appearance. He'd only played ten minutes I
think it was fifteen maybe off the bench against Japan
on the wing. Scores two tries, so to have his
first appearance first starts at home, I agree. I think
(13:49):
he is going to develop into a real Test prospect
because he does have all that range of skill game understanding.
He's a very diligent professional. We've heard him talk about
wanting to be the best player in the world. How
many twenty four year old kids come out and say that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, exactly. And what he did in the injury Loffy
had around a breathing coach and mindfulness and all that
sort of thing that he's approached. He clearly wants to
be better and interesting to see what opportunities come his
way in the Rugby Championship.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Just quickly off the top of my head, there was
one question from the online thing before, someone querying whether
Jordie Barrett could be the All Blacks answer a center.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Okay, well what's the answer at second five? If you
move from to center.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Solving one problem in creating another.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Yeah. I don't think he's played a lot of center,
but he has played for the All Blacks wing fallback
first five seconds, so he probably could pull it off.
I don't think that's the answer, but I just sort of.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah. I mean to pier, maybe could play twelve when
you have Barrit at thirteen. I'm not sure I would
like that combination necessarily, but I do think that that
thirteen role is still still up for grabs.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
Yeah. And I think in the midfield of articulate, it's
about combinations and complimentary combinations. You know, you think back
in time non Nolan Smith, just the Yin and the yang,
you know, the big destructive second five who developed a
brilliant distribution game over time and kicking game even and
Smith the real glue from a defensive perspective, from setting
(15:28):
up as outsides. He was never had top ends pace
or the most brilliant player. But that combination is what
the All Blacks are searching for. And I think with
Jordi and Proctor. That's probably the closest they're going to get.
Billy probably has some question marks about his size and physicality,
but he does compliment Jordi better than Rico indeed.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right, let's move on to what we learned from the
series from an All Blacks perspective. Well, do you learn
first and foremost that don't underest them at a French
second string team? Would that be listened?
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Put some rest on the top fourteen name.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I think we don't see a lot of the top
fourteen and that's the same for New Zealand punters. So
how many players could you have named in those French
starting teams prior to the series? Very very few, a
handful And this is clearly depth that they've built over
a few seasons. Now, that's been a strong competition for
(16:31):
a number of years, but you look back and go
there's been other locations with the French have sent out
a mixed team to New Zealand in terms of experience,
and the All Blacks have belted them. Now, perhaps there's
a bit of an All Black strop off there as well,
but the depth of the French have built in this
competition now is very very good, and you know, the
gap between top positions and second string may not be
(16:54):
as big as it once was, so I think that's
one lesson. Yea. And they went out to Argentina last year,
same approach, went one on one and I'm not sure
if this year before, but certainly in recent times they
went out to Australia and very nearly anyone one this
probably should have won that series there with a similar
type squad. So yeah, they do have depth and talents.
(17:16):
But look, let me ask you this, would the All
Blacks have beaten one of the series against the first
choice French team?
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Hard to know? Hard to know? I mean they pushed
them to within one point last year in Paris, similar
group of players, so probably would have been to one
one way, well the other, don't know which way you.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Yeah, I think it would have been on a real
knife edge because your Blacks are scratchy to start the
year and they certainly wouldn't have been able to make
ten changes, ten starting changes. It would have been balls
to the wall best team and down to the whyah match.
I think two one either way. All right, let's talk
about the All Blacks. One we learned from the series.
(18:04):
Who is your best player over the course of the
three matches, Probably Will Jordan. I think it just doesn't
matter where he plays, full back wing, he's everywhere. And
what's he scored forty two and forty four. I think
that's right something like that. Just an absolutely phenomenal strike
rate just keeps coming, doesn't he And it's not just
(18:26):
his finishing ability, it's the way he injection himself into
the line. I think he has influenced his voice. Yeah,
he sets the bar Ardie Severe was very good. I
don't think he was great in Hamilton. There was that
advised I think left foot ship kick off the line
(18:48):
out that he would like to have again and got
stripped of the ball on another occasion. But he was
outstanding in Wellington in particular, and Fabian Holland shout out
to a test Rockie to come in and play three
consecutive eighty minute performances.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yeah, I have Will Jordan and I had Cam roy
Guard and came Royguard only played two matches, but I
thought because we touched on earlier as influence in both
of those victories was pretty key. Biggest mover in the
series from an All Blacks perspective.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Probably Fabian Holland comes in, yeah, having not played him,
and it's hard to think of a rookie Wallace to
tc similar sort of scenario.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Not longer for Walls didn't it because he only got
the option off the bench and then didn't play The
Argentina test came in for Savrigal didn't play off in
the starting sock year.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's right. But once he was in, he was in,
he was and he became the All Blacks Player of
the Year. The only thing I'd say about Fabian is
he's this massive unit, right and exceptional the line out
and huge engine to play three eighty minute performances. I
think he can still get more from his frame physicality
to really there's occasions he sort of concedes when he's
(19:59):
got the ball, and I'd like to see him bust
through the line or just get a wee bit more
from his frame, particularly looking ahead to teams like the
bo But yeah, are the big movers. I guess you could.
You can make a case for Tupu Vai in terms
of his switch. Well, there were there were six rookies,
(20:22):
right who anyone in particular other than Holland that really
stood out of that.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Group Holland is the obvious one, given he played three
eighty minute performances since making his debut. I thought Kittyfi
grew in each performance that he had minutes off the bench,
and Dunedin Wellington then starting. Still have concerns I guess
around his size at Test match level, but you can't
doubt the size of his heart and his hunger to
(20:48):
be better and and be a Test player. I still
think this question marks over what role he has for
the All Blacks over the course of the rest of
the season. But other than that, you know, Tavatavanawai had
a couple of cameos off the bench. Hard to judge
him too much, but didn't make too much of an
influence on the Test game. McAllister mixed as well. So
(21:13):
Leo Willie again jury out similar to Karefi. So I'd
go Holland and then yeah, question marks over the rest.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, I don't know if the other ones. The other
one was Oli Norris. I thought he was good without
being great, and I actually thought George Bauer I think
he was penalized in his first scrum but did make
a notable impact when he came on off the bench
in Hamilton so Oli Norris. Perhaps another level will go
to from a scrummaging perspective, and I agree otherwise, I
(21:44):
don't know if we It is hard, isn't it, Because
you hear all the time about your Blacks environment being overwhelming.
They've got to come in and take in all this information.
Their flowing phone's blowing up. It's very emotional time you
realize a dream is a lot to absorb. Some players
handle that better than others. And yeah, Tavannaha, I think
(22:07):
it's an interesting scenari when we can't the head and
we wore in terms of the Rugby Championships squad, but
six midfielders did feel like a lot his debut and
Wellington had two cracks at the cherry. I think what
we saw overall when you look at him and Karefi
as a step up, isn't it? It is?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
For Tavata, I felt like he was kind of from
a standing start on a number of occasions, and I
don't think that's where he's best utilized, just in terms
of the all Blacks attacking shape and how they're playing
this season. Is that seen from the Highlanders when he
comes from a little bit deeper on attack, then he
can have a real influence when players stand a little
deep at the all black stand quite tight at the moment.
I don't think that necessarily suits him. We didn't see
(22:46):
a lot of line breaks from Tavatava Nahai over the
course of the time that he had on the park.
Certainly wasn't making those defensive turnovers that he had. Kifi
similarly mentioned this around the breakdown when he spoke after
the game on Saturday night and the medium zone around
(23:07):
the breakdown and how different it is at Test level.
You know how many poaches did it get in Super
rugby this year. It's just so much harder. Your timing's
got to be perfect, you've got to be right on
that ball, and sort on Super rugby there was a
lot of reward for players on the ball from the opposition.
Don't get that as much in Test rugby at the moment.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
No, that's right, just on that four four four scenarios
worth noting. I think sixteen rookies under Scott Robertson since
he took over last year, and you're always going to
get that to a degree post World Cup cycle when
you have a lot of veterans moving on. But I
think ten last year six this year, that's going to
(23:49):
decrease and it's going to carry on that theme as
you get closer to the World Cup. Sixteen is quite
a lot. I think some have taken their chances, some haven't,
But there's a clear plan there isn't there to develop
that debt, to bring through new talents to build for
deep So you can go to those players and they
(24:10):
have had that experience at test rugby, they're not going
to be having their first weeks coming into a major
majors test match.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah. I think that's probably an area where the All
Blacks didn't quite develop in the last World Cup cycle.
They can blame COVID or whatever it might be around
that and some of the opportunities they didn't have, but
you they probably didn't quite get their bench right at
times during that last cycle and some of that depth. Hopefully,
you know, some of these moves of the next couple
(24:38):
of years can confix that.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, and probably missed a bit of a trick last year.
While there's ten rookies, they definitely missed opportunities such as
the Italy game to bring through players to give them
that exposure. So I'm not going to sit here and
knock what they did in Hamilton. While the performance wasn't there,
that was the right game to try and promote fringe
prospects and give them that exposure.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, and I think Robertson said pretty much that they
should have done that last year. Bit of a mere
culpa that they didn't quite get that right in the
Italy Week last year and they had some bad bodies
by the end of it. Give us a grade from
the series before we taught the Rugby Championship out of team.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I'm going to go six because I think the All
Black's only got their performance to the expected standard once
one from three and it's that context of being a
second string French team. Yes, they have talent and depth,
but I think given the nature of the opposition while
the All Blacks are starting the year, I expected more
(25:37):
and the performance in Wellington showed the level that they
can get to and they only got there once.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I'm going to go seven. Slightly friendly marketing the standards
Rugby Championship squad. It is going to be named the
fourth of August, which is a Monday. We've heard that
a lot of the players, or at least some of
the players are going to play a bit of NPC
that opening round which preceeds the All Black squad naming,
So a good opportunity for some players there to get
(26:06):
some minutes under their belt, maybe make some returns from injuries.
Thirty six Strong Square be named for the Rugby Championship. Now,
there's been a few commings and goings in terms of
injuries into that all back squad over the course of
the last three weeks, with players injured and moving in
and out. But where do you see the Rugby Championship
squad going to and what are the fixes that needed
(26:26):
by Scott Robinson and co.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
It's very much injury to excuse me, injury dependent, isn't it?
If we run through them. Boden Barrett fractured to the
same hand that he did for the Blues and Super
Rugby that sidelined him for a month. So all expectations
are he will be on the plane to Argentina and
should be available for that first test. That's why they
(26:50):
pulled on from the bench. In Hamilton, people were not
so sure about Mighty Williams Wallace A teas sounds like
he's on track, but don't know when he'll be in
that Rugby Championship squad when he's available. Not too sure,
same with us are for armor. Peter Luckey is coming
back from injury. Caleb Clark sideline for up to two
(27:11):
months waiting one updates from Noah Hotham and Tyro Lomax.
Lomax needs an X ray on his thumb, so some
big ins and outs there. Scott Barrett's coming back will
be available for Argentina. What we do know is the
Eel Blacks will need at least another winger because Caleb
(27:32):
Clark won't be there and they were extremely light and
found wanting exposed with their squad selection I think, and
the nature of it by going to light in the wingers,
too light with the loose forwards and carrying too many midfielders.
So you're looking at guys like Ammonia and Nadawa potentially
coming into that squad. But the All Blacks didn't have
(27:53):
a lot of faith in him, did They only really
played him when they had to, and Wellington then went
away from him. So do they look outside the squad
at a Leroy Carter or a Schaffee Harckey perhaps yep,
And then I think you Luke Jacobson is another one.
You wouldn't think it's a major long term injury, but
(28:13):
I think you need additional loose forwards and outside backs.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yep. Simon Parker is a question mark for me if
he's fit now. He was out through injury, wasn't considered
through injury. He's the kind of body that we talked
about a bit earlier on that the All Blacks may
be lacking size, or at least that's what some of
the fans on your herol Q and A was sugescing size.
I agree, and Simon Parker is that bigger body that
maybe the All Blacks do need in their pack or
(28:41):
is worthy of having a look at for the Rugby Championship.
Ethan Blackett it could be another one that comes back
in maybe, although they moved away from him a little bit.
Peter Lukeye if he's fit, so there's a few interesting
questions there. If No Hotham isn't available, who is jumping
on the plane as the third half pack we touched on.
(29:02):
I guess depth at first five and hooker and wing
is a real touch point. But that's another one, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
You're looking you're reaching towards guys like from La Christy
probably because unless you're going to promote Kyle Preston, who
does bring a point of difference and that he kicks
off both feet and played very well when he did
play for the Crusaders this year. But I just feel
(29:33):
like the All Blacks are probably reluctant to bring in
another rookie at half back, and they will probably like
the idea like they did last year, of having a
more experienced type figure. That's why they selected t. J.
Petnara from La Christy has been there. I would go Preston,
but I think they will lean towards a Christie type character.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
They kind of know what they're getting from Christy, and
if you're talking about this four four four concept, then
to me, developing another player that could be there in
twenty seven is probably the more logical option for me.
I get why they would go back to Christy, but
I'll be looking similar to you at Kyle Preston or
potentially told for Funachi.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Was another one, yeah, of all the players in that
ends that game, I thought he actually had quite a
lively impact and he brings a point of difference of
his sniping is passing around the fringes. But he just
hasn't been on the radar at all under Robertson, and
he hasn't kicked on from where he was three years ago.
I mean he's eligible for Tonga later this year. That's
how long his gap between international appearance has been. It
(30:39):
felt luck he was really coming up in that twenty
two season and his plateau big time. And whether they
go back to the world there is an interesting question,
as you say, Bigg's port of a difference, but I'm
not sure whether that's what the All Blacks are after
Les defining and Looki's another one. He's back home. He
will play for Tasman in the NPC, and there was
(31:01):
a story from Paul Cully in the Post a few
weeks maybe even a month back, that suggested that he
will not actually be available or selected until the Northern Tour,
So that kind of makes sense and that he I
do like players having to come back and play in
New Zealand rather than walk straight back into the All
Black team. But you do wonder if it was a
(31:23):
Richie Mulong or whether he'd be made to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I suspect fining a look who probably wan Look. We
talked about him and some of the question marks at center.
He's played a lot of center for Toulon in the
last couple of years. Maybe he is a long too
answer at center, but the All Black also have problems
on the wings at the moment, so I mean he
can play multiple positions. That's one of the very, very
good things about him. So it wouldn't surprise me if
(31:47):
he's back and soon that rather than later, especially with
the injuries to Caleb Clark, they could massage it a
little bit. Go oh, you played, you won two games
of Tasman, come back in.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah. I think if they got another injury, it would
not be surprised to see him fast checked. For me,
I don't know if he is a long term answer
at center, while he did play a lot there for Toulon,
because as I mentioned before, that just that complimentary combination
that you ideally like in the midfield. And I don't
know if Leicester is the guy that will be making
(32:14):
those outsides look good putting them away. But what an
asset potentially to have on the bench to bring on
late like he's he's a similar prototype to a degree
to a tother tough nahwa Isn't he a big body? Destructive?
Can play as you mentioned wing and center. Yeah, I
think he's a great asset and Razor does like big bodies,
(32:38):
whether it's on the wing or in the midfield.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Absolutely right, that'll do us the first half of Rugby Direct.
Back with our final four after the scurtsy of our
friends that Access solutions.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Every drive has sixty second, every tackle tackles get up again.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Afore after. It's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You're back with Rugby Direct. Time now for the final four.
And look, we've talked about it previously on the podcast,
but it's time to talk about R three sixty again.
Is this actually going to happen? There's a lot of
chatte last week that Roger to I Vasa Shek have
signed him, or at least have approached him and thrown
something at him in terms of an offer. Obviously, the
(33:31):
story's been out there. What's your take on this, limb.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
I think it will happen. There does seem to be
growing momentum behind it, but I don't know if it's
a major threat. I think it's telling that they're targeting
league guys as their marquee signings and Roger to Varsa
Shek is likely to be. I think it's he's kind
(33:57):
of to the Warriors until the end of twenty twenty six.
He Yeah, he made the All Blacks, but he wasn't
a raving success story in rugby union, and I think
that's the type of guy that they're going to be targeting,
because any player that goes to R three sixty should
it get off the ground is not going to be
able to play Test rugby at this stage, So that
rules out all the best players in the world. You
(34:20):
may get someone towards the end of their career go
and cash out, or somebody on the fringe of Test rugby,
maybe Hoskins Tutu type character that you can sell to
the masses. But yeah, just the concept of forming franchises
and traveling around the world, I do see it struggling
to get off the ground. So for me, it's not
(34:42):
a surprise that that's starting to target league guys, and
that's where a lot of the nervousness is coming from.
Rugby League. Doesn't seem like the established Test Nations and
Rugby are really looking over their shoulder at this at
the stage.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
No, it doesn't, and it feels like rugby league a
panicing a little bit because they don't really have an
equivalent of this. You know, Rugby and New Zealand has
had to deal with France and Japan in recent years,
you know, putting big money in front of a lot
of players in rugby league. Now the Super League is
a two bit competition that basically isn't what it was
(35:17):
twenty thirty years ago where players would go over and
be given big money. There's just not enough money in
that competition now, all behind rugby league in England or
the UKs to do that. This players at the end
their career might still go but it's very much not
what it was in terms of some of those players
going over. So the Narrael hasn't had to deal with it.
They seem like they're a bit panicky over it. But look,
(35:37):
if you are three sixty and your marquee signing at
this point is robbed the Twi Vasishek playing union where
we saw that two or three years ago and didn't work.
So I'm not sure where the interest levels will come from,
where the money's coming from. Obviously a lot of talk
about the Saudis, but they haven't officially confirmed that they're involved.
Not sure I'd trust something that was involved like Tindall
(35:58):
as far as I could throw it. That's yeah, all
of it feels rather off to me.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Yeah, there's not a lot of substance there at this point.
But look, if the substance comes in terms of the
one million dollar offer that they're talking about for Roger
to of Arsisk, if those sort of offers are on
the table for more players, it could potentially hurt competitions
like Super Rugby and not maybe the top fourteen or
(36:29):
you know, the English Premiership. That's where it could have
an impact if those sort of offers are consistent. But
there's still major question marks about the substance behind this.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
The one area where it could have an effect in
a good way, I think if there is some Saudi
influence here and they're looking to provide a product that
is entertaining in terms of R three sixty is putting
a little bit pressure on world rugby around some of
the rules in the sport and cleaning up some of that.
(37:01):
And if they're going to go, we're going to be
we're going to make tries seven points, We're going to
promote attacking rugby we're going to minimize the stoppages. You
can't take shots. Whatever it might be that could drive change.
Now some of it might seem gimmicky, but if they're
willing to drive, because their focus will be entertainment product.
Now they've got the sad he's got to live and
none watchers live. It's two men their dog watching it
(37:24):
on TV. They get crowds at the courses occasionally, but
their focus is on the entertainment product from the start
to the finish. You can't tell me that test rapy
in the way that is being played at the moment
is promoting an attacking product versus a law guided product.
So that's where maybe they might be able to cut
through some of the bullshit that's currently going on in
World and Wild Rugby.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
That's right saying hey, this is you know, if the
fans start agitating for a change that they've seen somewhere else,
well it's going to be pretty hard to dismiss that.
And there's a similar sort of concept brewing around the
Sevens and franchise Sevens and what they are actually looking
at compared to what's been done globally for years in
(38:04):
terms of a three day event they're talking about staging
it all on one day, having straight knockouts from the
outset different sort of rules around it as well. So
from a as you say it like an agitation perspective
to drive meaningful change. From as a better product, it
could have a place, but who knows whether it actually
(38:24):
gets off the ground.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
We shall see topic number two of the Fist Lions
test in the books, and that was comfortably won by
the Lions. Maybe not on the school board, but certainly
in terms of the way they went about their business,
maybe apart from the last twenty twenty five minutes when
it got a bit hairy. I questioned last week whether
this was the worst lines to ever. Still haven't seen
(38:45):
evidence against that. There's the Pacivica Island team playing the
lines tonight, but pretty much got what we expected on
Saturday night. The lines are too good. The world has
been good enough. Yours please.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
In basically every aspect wasn't it physicality at the breakdown,
pace ball skills, The lines were up something like twenty
four and the game's done. The Wallabies come back and
score a couple of late tries to put some respectability
in the scoreboard, but it wasn't really a contest, and
(39:18):
that's the first test. I'd expect the Lions to get better.
I'd be making some changes for the Wallaby straight off
the bat. Angus Bell, Tate McDermott Andrew Callaway, I think
I'd all be bringing them in to start. But it
really was a lightweight Wallaby's team on paper. Saw that
in the lead up to that game and just didn't
give them a show of winning that test based on
(39:40):
who was on paper. No Rob Valentini, no will skelt him.
A real lack of size in that pack, and it's
just really hard to see where the Wallabies can better
that Lion's team.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Nick Champions de Crapp and I thought was actually pretty
handy at blindside, but it didn't miss Valentini. To be honest,
I'm putting James o connor in at ten this week.
There's a must win for Joe Schmidt. You've got to
throw all those players you mentioned in there your hope
like hell, that Rob val team, he's ready to go,
and I'm putting James O'Connor in a ten. You can't
you go and develop Ben Donaldson or Tomliner or whoever
(40:14):
it is. James O'Connor has been there and done that
at Tesla before. I'm going to Connor this week at ten.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
I don't mind that British Norrish Lions series is not
a time to throw in a rookie ten. And yeah,
Australia don't have great options there and I've been hurt
by injuries and had to change their plans, but it
was very evident that that was you know, Tomliner's introduction
to Test rugby did some good things, but he looked
(40:44):
rattled at times as well, and it's such a pivotal position.
So yeah, I think everyone probably the longer this tour
went on, the more everyone's expected three nil and I
think the more interest is going to be sucked out
of it unless the Wallabies can pull a massive upset
(41:04):
off this week top.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Of number three Johnny Gibbs, then you Chiefs coach. This
is from a no surprise file. Everyone expected it from
the moment Claim Willan was announced that he's going to Munster.
A good appointment I think for the Chiefs. Bit of
continuity reigns to be seen whether they can get away
from that bride'smaid tag that has followed them around for
a few seasons. Now maybe Gibbs is the kind of
(41:26):
coach that can push and beyond.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
That, Yeah, potentially. I think Jerry's probably out on Johno
as a head coach. He's been very good when he's
been Ford's coaches, but he was which is not uncommon.
Sent packing from his last gig in France. It's pretty
ruthless industry up there, with their club owners demanding certain things.
(41:48):
If they don't get them, they'll they'll pull the trigger.
So I think it will be a challenge for him
stepping up from assistant to head coach. And the Chiefs,
while for a lack of titles, have been very good
in their consistency. So a big challenge for him. But look,
that's squad, the rosters very stable. Will he had the
(42:09):
benefit of being there so continuity will help. And yeah,
interesting to see if he can get something more from them.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
You've mentioned before, you know, the Crusaders not looking outside
their region.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, well the Chiefs if it doesn't go well, they
could be guilty of that as well. I don't know
did they advertise it. It doesn't really seem like they did.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I don't think they did. I might be wrong. Simon
Grafis is listening. You can correct us on that, but.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, they obviously identified very early that they had what
they felt to be strong internal candidates. I think Roger
Randall and who's the Canterbury Muddy Book. Yeah, he was
involved with the Chiefs, so I think they would have
interviewed or spoke to those and obviously gone with John O.
But yeah, I think in any job you should throw
(42:57):
it open and see who's out there. Wales have finally
made they're appointed their coach Steve Tandy with.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
I thought he was there replaceable for a moment. Galls,
they're replaceable. Gatlin.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Have they pulled down the gate yet?
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Oh well maybe you could pull it down when we
get there in November. We picture from the rugby direct fans.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
But that's got to be the biggest job in world
sport almost, doesn't it? Turning around Wales that there's such
a dysfunctional.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Hey, Steve Tanny might have them humming by week four
of the Automnations Championship when the all blecks are off,
they might be world beaters.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Who knows, he's a proven defensive coach, but again, stick
it stepping up to test rugby in a head coaching
role in Wales. Yeah, good luck son all right.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Topic number four. The New Zealand under twenties lose to
South Africa in the World Championship final, first time they're
in the final. The New Zealand team since twenty seventeen
beaten by South Africa. Just you know, we're trouble by
red card in the first half and felt like they
were behind the eight ball a lot of that game.
(44:04):
What did you make of their campaign and what do
we take.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Out of it? I think it's a win. Anytime you
lose the final, you're going to be disappointed, aren't you
go there to claim a title. But it's been a
long time and I think it's a big improvement on
where this twenties team has been. And let's not forget
they had a changeing head coach a matter of months before,
(44:30):
weeks before going to this tournament, which could have been
hugely disruptive. But I think it's a good result.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Yeah, I think so. I think probably in some ways
too much waitings put on the under twenties and how
what the results are. I think it's more about pathways
and players. This is the only time that they'll play together,
you know, groups by age and so when you get
to senior level, you make the cut where you don't.
It's not a matter of how old you are, So
(45:01):
I think a little bit too much weightings given to that.
But what I did see was, you know, a lot
of systems that worked in terms of the way they played.
Beat the South African team in the Rugby Championship edition
of the under twenties a few months ago in South Africa.
So I think there's some positive signs. It's more about
the pathways than the players that are coming through, I think.
(45:21):
And there looks to be a promising group of players.
A couple of really promising young hookers Manamu let You
from the Crusader has already had a couple of games
the Crusaders eli Odin Ryan, Jill Pleger and a couple
of the locks look really good as well. So there's
some players there that are promising. A couple of outside
backs too.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
Yeah, and shout out to Tane Harvey Fox and boy
who was on the bench for the final. He I'm
pretty sure he's playing for South on an NPC. He's
in the Highlanders system. So yeah, pretty amazing to see
a small town kid who captains Parmeerson North Boys high
in the mix.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
They will he now replaced you as sort of you
know the Naper club rooms. We were replaced by him.
Well what's the go there?
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Well down to Peking I've got you know, Doug Allen
was you know, multi sport champion and he was on
the boat for Team New Zealand. So you know, I'm
just on the bottom of the shoe mate. It can
be the Foxton's greatest hits.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
All right, Well, there'll do us for Rguy rate for
another week. Thanks to Excess Solutions elevating you and your
business to a higher level, and thanks to Last and
Bars English for producing. Where We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
For more from News Talks ed B listen live on
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you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
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