August 17, 2025 • 47 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier break down the All Blacks' Rugby Championship opener against Argentina and their ascension to the top of the world rankings despite an at times imperfect showing, and ask why the forwards are clicking but the back play appears clunky and whether changes might be in the offing for the second test.
And as the All Blacks move on to Buenos Aires for the second test, Liam catches up with All Blacks assistant coach Jason Holland to wrap up the first test and look ahead to the second.
We also delve into the Wallabies' shock win over South Africa in Johannesburg and cast an eye to the women's World Cup starting later this week.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Of Drup Dickney Score.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
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Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Fourklift Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith with
me as always, but some distance away we go to
Buenos aide Is where Lea Napier is for the New Zealand.
Here all joining us on Rugby Direct. Liam, greetings and
welcome from Argentina.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good to catch up, oh, Elliott's yes, great to catch
up in the Argentinian capital and plenty to get stuck onto.
Isn't there in the Rugby Championship ups sets drama?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's all happening, It certainly is all happening. Well, you
had a pretty good seat yesterday for the All Blacks
when over Argentina. Probably a pretty good place to start.
What were your baseline thoughts on that All Blacks performances?
They comfortably bet Argentina Barra sort of twenty minutes squeeze
in the second spell.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, first of all, it was an amazing atmosphere in
caught Over, the first time the All Blacks had been
there in thirty years, fifty five thousand fans and they
were certainly rocking pre cookoff and the All Blacks did
a great job of silence and them didn't They initially
three first half tries.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
And not completely dominant.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
There were some clunky moments, but comfortable, very comfortable at
halftime thirty one ten and you thought, shut the gate,
they're going to make an early Rugby Championship statements and
kick on from here. And then it was anything but
the second half fades returns, the discipline issues returned to
yellow cards. Scott Robinson went to his bench early and
(02:13):
there was some very nervous moments for the All Blacks
with their twenty one point lead whittled down to seven
points before too late. Summersony Takeyaho tries and the Ford
Pack really getting the All Blacks out of jail. Somewhats
going back to the mall and pushing clear for as
you say, pretty comfortable in the end, but the All
(02:35):
Blacks I think very mixed. The motions six tries bonus
point one, but some real frustrations in their second half performance.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
What was your read on it?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, look, we were talking about it at halftime in
our commentary here with former All Blacks half back An
Storing about the needs to kick on and really put
a number on Argentina and both in performance and I
suppose on the scoreboard as well. It would be a
statement to win that the All Blacks have been searching
for and they just couldn't get going in the second
spell and that's the frustrating and lingering thing happened in
(03:08):
Allington where they weren't comfortably but couldn't quite kick on
with the second half performance they desired, And really I
thought that the halftime probably came at the worst possible
time for the All Blacks. They obviously scored two or
three minutes after the siren in the first spell to
make it thirty one ten, but it felt like they
had a real ascendancy as they had into the break.
I think they had a ninety four percent possession over
(03:29):
the last ten minutes of the first spell, and then
a fifteen minute break kind of came at the worst
time in terms of that momentum, and they haven't found
a way to reset the switch and get that going
in the second spell. And I thought what Argentina did
really well straight after halftime was immediately apply pressure. The
penalty count was nine to four against Argentina at halftime,
(03:50):
it ended up being twelve all, and they just managed
to apply some pressure to get some early wins in
the second spell. And if anything, I don't know whether
it was conditions related or player related, maybe felt like
the All Blacks went to their bench a ted early
in some respects. Corthius Ratsma I thought was playing very
very well. Finlay Christie didn't have the greatest of nights.
(04:12):
The reserve props didn't really make an impact. The starting
ones we're having, you know, some some good moments and
then so in you know, Cody Taylor for as take Yaho.
You can probably agree with that, but kind of felt
maybe they went to the bench a little bit early
just to try and reset things in the second spell
when they felt they're under a little bit of pressure.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I think there wasn't that impact from the bench other
than Takyoho. And I thought Patrick two Plotu was good.
He made that one try saving tackle. Sounds like he
won't be available this week. Took quite a heavy knock
to the heads and went to hospital with concussions as
there's been cleared of anything major, but probably won't be available,
(04:53):
so we can touch on what that means from a
selection point of view. But yeah, the bench as a whole,
it's a bit of an ongoing thing for the All Blacks,
isn't it. There were a couple of times towards the
back end of last year they got the desired impact,
but I think with guys like Wallace the Tea t
and Mighty Williams and Tyrol Lomax and Cam Roygard, Caleb Clark,
(05:15):
these guys absence that is really affecting that impact from
the bench. And I agree that they probably went to
it early. Probably thoughts that they or they did have
a commanding lead and that's why they went to the
bench early and didn't get the desired results there.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I guess some other issues, Eliot.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think the back line is not functioning as well
as the All Blacks would like. There were some real
clunky moments there that I think they only made two
line breaks the whole game. They did beats a number
of defenders, but if you look at the tries that
they scored. Three of them were from wolves, one of
them was from a piece of will Jordan brilliance, a hop,
a step, a break, and he puts Cortez lastmer in.
(05:58):
So they only really created you could argue two trials
or certainly the back line, and I think there's some
real concerns there at the moment. Billy Proctor's finding it
hard to step up to test level. I mean, a
big advocate for his He's played exceedingly well for the Hurricanes,
but is struggling to carry that impact through Rika Iwani's
(06:18):
switched to the wing not going well.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
They're looking to bring him.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Off his wing and get him evolved, but his hands
and letting them down on occasions. He was smacked big
time by Pablo Martera and then dropped another ball, And yeah,
I just I don't know how to put my finger
on exactly. Maybe it's the attacking shape, maybe it's basic skills,
but the back line is a btificant concern at the moment,
(06:43):
especially when the four pack is really largely delivering that
front foot platform.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, it certainly is, and I'm with you, I don't
know whether it's the attacking shape that is not allowing
someone like a Billy Propt to have the time and
space that he gets at Super rugby level, or whether
it is this that step up to Test level that
is making things more difficult. The defense lines are quicker
at Test level, the pressure is a lot more, but
(07:09):
he would be someone that has played so well at
Super rugby level that is just not being afforded the
time in space in this current All Black setup to
be able to do what he needs to with ball
in hand and what we've seen at Super rugby level.
He's not alone because I don't think Jordy Barrett probably
had his best Test match yesterday either. But it felt
like they were being crowded in the midfield and whether
(07:30):
that's the way that the All Blacks are attacking obviously
use the props at the moment to set up things
a little bit, and whether that allows the defensive line
to be a little bit more set when it comes
to midfield players. I don't know necessarily, but the back
line looks really really clunky and to an extent that
is just down to basic skilled execution. Catch pass is
(07:53):
becoming a real battle for the All Blacks at the moment.
Some drop ball as you mentioned there that you'd expect
these players to be able to do that we've seen
in Super rugby be able to do, yet their hands
and skill set is evading them. At Test level at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
It is drop bulls, forward passes and there were a
couple of nice skip balls out to severa Reese's wing.
He scored two tries to taken tries there, but the
All Blacks did lead points out there and that will
be a frustration for them as well. So big, big
work on in that department. What about the discipline that
(08:31):
we have touched on, as you mentioned the penalty count
in the second half, also two yellow cards Billy Proctor
for a professional foul and Anton Lenna Brown came on
probably one of his worst Test performances, really gave away
an immediate penalty and then was yellow carded for a
unfortunate rugby collision where he rushed out of the line
and had the head clash, so.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
He was binned as well.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
That was a real problem for the All Blacks during
the Rugby Championship campaign last year. Yellow cards can prove
incredibly costly. The All Blacks cashed in on the Puma's
prop tight loose head props. Sorry get being yellowcuted in
the first half. So do you see those discipline issues
being a quick, fixed, easy solution. That is a real
bugbear of Scott Robinson. So I'm sure it'd be pretty
harsh on that this week.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, yeah, so it should be at halftime. As I mentioned,
nine four was the penalty count. Argentina conceded nine, the
All Blacks just four. By a full time it was
twelve apiece. And what Argentina did really really well, I
thought in the opening twenty minutes of that second spell
has put the All Blacks under pressure, forced them into
making decisions that would likely result in penalties, and it
(09:37):
increased the pressure. And we saw Julia Montoga at one
point ask the referee how many penalties are you going
to allow this team to concede? Does a wipe when
we can we score a try because the All Blacks
just seemingly we're giving up penalties for fun really, which
wasn't fun, but it was essentially what was happening on
the scoreboard. Now, whether that was down to Pierre Brossett
changing his interpretations at halftime, I actually thought he had
(09:58):
a pretty good refe game. The referee. The All Blacks
with it was fatigue, began to make some poor decisions
as the game went on in that penalty count level
against them, what eight and the second spell versus full
for Argentina. And you're right around the yellow cards and
Anton Lenett Brown in particular has a habit of conceiving
yellow cards when he's come off the bench and test matches.
(10:21):
It seems to be regularly that he is showing a
yellow card. I can't put my finger on exactly what
it is. He's a smart rugby player, but I mean
yesterday that could have easily have been broad obstruction, I thought,
But because it was a collision, they went with the
defensive player making the misread and he had to go
for ten minutes. I thought he was probably a little
(10:42):
hard done by there because it felt more obstruction than
anything given both players looking in opposite directions. But it
is becoming a worrying habit. And on top of that,
I don't think Anton Lenett Brown strikes It is the
bench player that the All Blacks are looking for. When
they talk about impact, they talk about wanting to own
the back end of games. Anton Lett Brown, to me,
(11:03):
is either a starter or he doesn't play at all.
He is not a bench player in this current All
Black side. If you're looking for impact, you see you
can cover twelve and thirteen and to a lesser extent
wing if you're really at a push. But to me,
it just doesn't offer that kind of bench impact that
you're after.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, I think it's a fair point because he is
there because of the versatility, isn't he There's not many
players that can play twelve and thirteen. It does tend
to be quite a specialist role though, those midfield duties.
But when you've got Arikawani on the wing who could
push into center, you do have the flexibility within that
(11:39):
starting team. So there's an argument for a quinta pier
a tav Tavanahua to get a chance if you are
really looking for that impact. So interesting to see whether
the All Black's pondered that this week. Maybe ntil Lena Brown.
There's a potential that he does face a judiciary for
something like that as well, so we'll wait and see
on that front. I guess we've touched on the back
(12:01):
line clunkiness and discipline issues, but the four pack is
the All Black strength at the moment. Isn't it the
scrum despite missing their both starting props, that the propping
depth in the All Blacks at the moment is phenomenal really,
that they can be missing tyro A Lomax and Ti
Mighty Williams and still completely dominate the Puma's pack at
(12:25):
scrum time. The line out with Brent Evans coming in
is working exceptionally well. Fabian Holland as a massive presence
there and the all three tries coming from that. The
All Blacks in the first half, even when their attack
wasn't functioning superbly, they were kicking to the corner and
setting everything off those line out drives, Boden Barrett, Jordie
(12:46):
Barrett pinning it to the corner and using the line
out as a weapon. So the forward pack Elliott is
setting the bar for this All Black team at the moment,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
It certainly is, yeah, and it's a very high bar.
It's been impressive what they're able to do. And you
know you can buy and large at the moment. You
know guarantee they're going to win pretty to all their
lineout ball. They didn't didn't lose any in that test yesterday.
Scrum though, were very very slide of and they conceded
one scrum penalty for hinging late on in the contest,
(13:18):
but by and large they had the Puma's number there.
So that's a really promising sign. And it's interesting there's
been a lot of chatterback here in the last twenty
four hours about whether the All Blacks need to be
a little bit more pragmatic and go, actually, maybe we're
not the team that we aspire to be when it
comes to playing that fast style of rugby, that attacking
style of rugby that New Zealanders love to see. And
(13:40):
maybe the strength at the moment with this group of
players and this coaching stuff actually lies up front, and
whether they should play more to those strengths than using
the back line. What do you make of that?
Speaker 4 (13:53):
I don't know if I subscribe to that totally. I
can see the argument for it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Certainly, that's where the All Black strength is, that's where
their dominance is coming. But I think Usiana rugby DNA
is using the ball, is playing fast, is using skills,
and I don't see any reason why they can't get
back to that or at least have.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
A complimentary balance. You look at some.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Of the attacking weapons in that back line. Will Jordan's
got to be one of the most potent threats in
world rugby, and it can't just be him doing it
on his own. But there are some new combinations across
that back line, aren't they, And I think that's what
we're seeing. Jordi Barrett and Billy Procter have played a
lot together for the Hurricanes, but that was I think
(14:37):
their third test together in the test scene. Riquawuan he's
had maybe three four tests on the wing and he
hadn't played on the wing for four years I think
it was at any level prior to this season, so
he's in an adjustment period.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Whether he remains there.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I think there's big question marks over the All blacks
preferred wings, so new combinations and I think a sense
of uncertainty about whether the players are in their best
positions contributing to the back why not functioning as well?
But I think the All Blacks should be aspiring to
play attacking forty as well as using their full pack
(15:18):
as a weapon just.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
On the defensive shift. It feels like the All Blacks,
you know, they put on a couple of big shifts
inside their twenty two but we saw France strike and
create opportunities inside the twenty two, and the All Blacks
feloff tackles on a couple of occasions. It was Albanos's
try yesterday where he glided through the line of the
defense was really, really poor. It feels like teams are
(15:41):
finding ways to get through the at the moment that
the All Blacks probably need to tighten up a little
bit when they're on the defense.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think they missed twenty five tackles, which is too
high for an All Black team. And I don't know
whether it's a system issue or a lack of concentration
at times, but they are conceding some really soft tries
and I think Finnley Christie dropped off a couple of tackles.
He wasn't alone, but yeah, that'll certainly be highlighted in
(16:13):
their review because it's no good just doing it for
five or ten minutes at a time, and you need
to be on and soft tries really hurt. You don't
yet you don't mind, or you can't argue if teams
pull off a brilliant set piece move or they grind
away for twenty thirty phases and break you down and
crash over. But for someone just to waltz through your
defensive line like that, that'll really hurt the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It certainly will anything else on the game specifically, before
we look at maybe some changes for this week.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Well, what about the Pumas.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I don't think they played to the best of their ability,
did they. I think they're a team I think that
likes being rank outsiders. If you look at where and
when they've beaten the All Blacks, it's when they've been
written off. Three times in the last five years. They've
beaten the All Blacks, but it's all been away from home.
So when they're at home, maybe there's a bit of pressure,
(17:05):
a bit more spotlight, and maybe they struggle with that
expectation to a degree. They've claimed some big scalps in
recent years, the spring Box, the Wallabies, France, the British
and Iris lines.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
But I didn't think that was the best performance.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
This scrum struggled and some of their kicking was inaccurate.
They made a lot of errors as well, so I
wouldn't be surprised to see a few selection changes from
them this week.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
What did you make of the Pomas?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, I was disappointed by them in all honesty. Look,
I think the loose Ford trio has always showed up.
Polo Matteta, Marcos Kremer and Oviedle I thought were excellent.
Is always very very rarely do they have a bad game.
You know, there's a great myth that goes around around
Argentina's scrum and their props. But Makeo, Vivas and Delgado
(17:51):
and their replacements. You know, they're just not what you
need at test level in twenty twenty five and we
saw them make errors. They still you know, one of
them got yellow carded. They're not the kind of pillars
you need at scrum time. So until I find some
some bitter props, they're going to strugg at scrum time.
And it's not They're not the strength that it once was.
(18:12):
And then I thought in the back line, I thought
the half back gone zoo. I see you was too telegraphed.
On a number of occasions he would he would double
pump the ball, allowed the All Blacks to get up
in the line and disrupt the momentum of the pumas.
So I thought he was a player that battled in
the back line. I'm not sure why as well, for
Lpe Countempoe. He didn't look at Matao karatas one of
(18:34):
the best outside backs for the game, plays on the wing.
He's out of bay On, He's been one of the
Puma's best in recent times, so I was surprised they
didn't look at him. And I still think they missed
Amelionable fairly, who has been out with long term injuries
for almost two years now. Really and I know he's
cloring his way towards a comeback, but I feels like
(18:54):
they just maybe missing a couple of players in that
back line to really set them alight. What did you
make of them?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, I think the occasion, there's a lot of talk,
wasn't there about the fact that Pumas have never beaten
the All Blacks in Argentina, and perhaps that's a bit
of a weight of expectation for them. But yeah, I agree,
I think concerpently got a few of his selections wrong.
So I think we could see a few changes from
them this week as they as they look to rebound
(19:22):
in Buenos Aires.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, speaking of changes the All Blacks, we touched on
it a little bit earlier on what side will they
name come Friday morning? You mentioned Patrick two if you're
unlikely to play, Are there other changes that you can
foresee in the mix this week?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, I think we'll see to Mighty Williams come straight
back to start at Lucid prop and I think Wallace
to Titi will come straight back into starts at probably
at number eight, which would push Ardi to seven and
probably two Po remain at six. I guess is a
bit of a question mark with Patrick two below two
ruled out, do you retain some of Penny Female on
(20:04):
the bench as lock and cover or perhaps bringing a
Josh Lord. I would also like to see Kyle Preston
coming at half back. I just think he's got so
much more upside to fin lay Christie off the bench.
We talked about that impact before. Preston's a guy that
can really bring their impact. He kicks off both feet,
he's got pace, he's got great support lines, so I
(20:26):
think he deserves a chance. And Simon Parker is another
one I think they'll strongly consider. Can't see too many
changes across the back line. I think Bilbacks feel at
the moment that's their top team and I don't think
they'll take any chances. I think they'll know that Pumas
will want a response.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
What about you?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
You see a few chants for a few day booze.
Does Leroy Carter get a look in?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, I'd like to see Leroy Carter get a look in.
I mean it's hard, isn't it that he's not in
the official squads as it's been turned obviously he's there,
but they've got him morning nadaware. They've got Ruben Love
in the mix with them as well. But I think
Leroy Carter offers something different on the wing. I'd love
to see him get a crack. I think he can
be really dynamic at Test level, but hard to see.
(21:12):
Maybe he gets a looking on the bench potentially for
a late impact and he's a player that we talk
about impact. He could certainly bring some impact late in
the game with his out and out speed and also
his position. His ability to play multiple positions. He played
center recently in the NBC for Bay have plenty, He's
played in the wing. He can play half back as
well if needed. I think I think Kyle Preston has
(21:34):
to play this week. Finlay Christie was defensively missing. I
thought yesterday he's renowned as a defensive halfback, but I
thought he was pretty poor, so I'd like to see
that change that you mentioned there as well. But other
than that, I think they'll keep the same players in
positions around the team. Maybe Parker comes off the bench
(21:57):
for a debut, Female can be there as lock cover.
We saw during France they often picked two loose forwards,
obviously with the ability to move two po via back
into the second row if needed, So maybe that's an
opportunity to bring in those loose forwards late in the game.
But I think they need to need to look at
some of these players with an ie to South Africa
(22:19):
and ultimately obviously respecting Argentina as well. But they did
to get some players on the park ahead of that
test that Eden parking in a couple of weeks time
they do.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It's a balancing act, isn't it, to give players time
to expose them to try new things. But when you
think about that loose forward trio, I think they're going
to want to get Wallace TC in there with Artie
Severe and Tupu Vie because that combination hasn't played together
and so looking your head to the spring box, you
don't want to be rolling out a completely new combination
(22:52):
at Eden Park to try and protect that Fortress record.
So yeah, I think you can get the mix of
introducing a Kyle Preston on debut as well as bringing
back some of those real dynamic, powerful forwards and wallacity
to end Tomighty Williams, which should strengthen the bench impact
(23:12):
as well.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Indeed, before we go any further, you spoke to All
Black's assistant coach Jason Holland, so let's have a listen
to that now.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Jason Holland, thanks for making some time and buonos Aidre's
you would have made a few trips over here back
in the days during your time as Hurricanes head coach
to play the Huguards. What are you? What do your
sort of memories and I guess experiences of Argentina.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Yeah, I've had a couple of trips over.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Actually stayed in this place and it's been always been
pretty enjoyable. A the people over here are called the emotional,
but love their footy and then in its pretty good
city here, so always enjoy it. Always a tough camera footy,
the way these boys are and the way they're tough
boys and smashing fifteen steaks a week and looking to
(24:00):
hurt people spar it's it's calling, Yeah, one of the
better places to go.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I reckon, what's what's the feeling in camp? I guess
after the performance at the weekends six tries, bonus point victory,
but I guess a bit of a patchy performance.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Yeah, there was a hell of a lot of good
stuff in the first half, especially you know, I felt
we if we got if we're more accurate and.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Got a bit more ruthless, we probably could have been
more ahead at half time.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
Do you know?
Speaker 5 (24:27):
We probably a few.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Average decisions in attack, we could have scored a couple
of tries and a little bit of skill set stuff
with us down. But at other times we were really
you know, we put the Argentinians under mess of pressure
through our game. But yeah, a lot we're still and
any footy team you want to be better, and we've
still got lots of areas and we want to keep
being better. But we just had a bonus point win
(24:49):
in Argentina and and that you know, that's that's never
easy to come by. So there's a lot of good
going on. We just got to find all the little
ways to be better.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Before we touch on the nuts. And bolts of the game.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I guess I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Patrick two blow who went to hospital of concussion. Looked
like he had a pretty decent dent in his head.
What what actually happened there?
Speaker 6 (25:10):
I'm just sure that little he had to put a
glancing blow with one of the loosey's heads. I think
he's I've just come out of a line out strategy meeting,
so he's he's got concussion sentence, but he's thinking pretty
clearly around the line out straight for the week.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
Luck, he's taking a bang and this I think he
need to get checked up and they would be unlikely
to be ready for this weekend. But Medock's going to
keep an eye on for the next couple of days.
But ye're one of those things being in the head.
But you know, I don't think it's too serious. But
he's going to be checked up on the next few days.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Will that affect the balances squad much so us? He's
got three traditional locks and your starting team. Will it
change your thinking much with him unavailable? Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Firstly, you lose someone like Paddy who's been outstanding for
us and in the weekend again, she's that what he
added when he came off the bench with his carry
and his energy was outstanding. So it's always you always
lose something if you lose Patty. But you know, as
you would have heard, the depth is really important to us,
and guys been out to step in and the young
fellow FABS has gone pretty good since he's been in
and scooped Barrett's back. And you know, we've got We've
(26:14):
got lots of bodies here with Toops and with Lordie here,
So no, I'll just be basically be an opportunity for
someone else if Patty doesn't make it, and nothing will
change in the way we try and play.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
What about Anton and Brown? Obviously the yellow card head
knock as well. Watts has availability.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Yeah, you know, a bit of a being on the
Snarz But yeah, I think he's another one who has
to pass a couple of things as early in the week,
so we'll know more by you know, as he ticks
something off on Monday and Tuesday, but we'll definitely know
that by the.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
End of Tuesday and the rest of the squad any
other serious bangs.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I think we've been pretty lucky. Actually, you know, boys
that have come back, you know, like Scooter as an example,
got his fifty to fifty five minutes and got through
that well. And everyone else is tracking pretty nicely, so
I don't think from memory as anybody else will be
earned out.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
How nice will it be to get Wallace Citys and
Marty Williams back to dynamic, big, powerful, skillful forwards.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Yeah, the last time we saw them in all black jerseys,
they were on fire, went there at the end of
last year and the Northern tour, So your time's in
great neck firstly, and yeah, he's room to go and
they've been messive boost to us. You know, he's obviously
the boys have stepped in and done really well. You know,
obviously grud is still playing well and Ollie's taken his chances.
But you know there's something around times with the size
(27:42):
of him and in his dynamic scrummaging plus around the field,
so he'll be awesome. And you know, I feel will
he's good to go as well and back to where
he was and you get that dynamic sort of ex
factor from from him and whoever he's worth in our
luses and it's it's pretty exciting to put together plans
to get them get their hands as the ball in.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
His hands appreciate you. You won't want to give too
much way, But how closely do you look at one
of the rookies Simon Parker, Kyle Preston and and Leroy
Carter new to the squads, but you know they've had
a weekend. I'm sure they're pretty keen to go. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Look, but all we've been tracking those boys obviously all
through super and so with the four I suppose in
the Nines case five deep with with Finn and and KP.
But you might have all come in trained really well,
we've all got lots of energy you know from from Bomford,
the KP and and Simon in his own way that
(28:40):
we've got lots of energy. So yeah, they putting the
best foot forward and putting their hand up. So yeah,
if they own selection, there'll be no problem there because
they're ready to go.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
The general theme pretty keen to build combinations and cohesion.
They're given what's to come and and what you're trying
to achieve in this tournament.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
Yeah, look, it's it's been good over over the French series. Obviously,
get people to run and yeah, generally the cohesion is
important going forward. We're obviously leading through Argentina into another
four big test matches, especially after what we saw.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
On the weekend.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
So yeah, they've been out able to continually going forward,
but still form. You know, you have to have to
be informed because because of the depth and the boys
pushing you. We've seen that rays not not afraid to
make changes, you know, based on based on form.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
So yeah, see, whatever's.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Your your area of expertise at the backs and the
attack some good things at the weekend and then I
guess some some clunky things as well. What's your assessment
of how that's going.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, look, we've I think in.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
The weekend we're a couple of poor decisions and a
couple of little bits of skill away from from being
really effective.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
But that's the challenges and at this level we need
to be better.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
We need to be able to put more moments together
where we have good skill sets and.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Then go to with So we're doing a lot of
good things. The boys are working really.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Hard and we're just going to make sure we can
we can do things I suppose be accurate for longer.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Is it mainly that skill set thing, because if you're
if a past sticks or the ball's not dropped, that
the shape looks like it's there.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
Yeah, well we feel like yeah, yeah, we feel like, yeah,
we've just got to get some continuity in that game,
and we've got some good ideas around how we get there.
But I suppose the skill set part is massive skill
set part of just being able to pass that way
under pressure, understand that teams are going to want to
take away our time and space, and understand how to
beat that.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Billy Propter a guy you know, well, I guess from
the outside, maybe it seems like it's taking them some
time to adjust to Test Rugby. That that happens to
every run to a degree, it's a new combination At
Test Rugby, there's less time and space how to assess
(31:09):
where he's at and how he's going.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Yeah, look, he's like he's slodling too. The in the
group really well and it isn't afraid to lead at times,
you know, around things. He's a real expert on you know,
especially around the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
So he's been he's been great in the environment.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
I think it's just a you know, we know Billy's
really consistent and everything he does, and he just needs
to keep striving to do that.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
You know him and him and Jory have being been
going really well together.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
But whenever you know any of our other midfielders like
Big Jim and Quinn and now we've got the chance
up with lots of pressures. It's a great it's an
area of great competition. So it's good that the boys
know they got to they got to front every week.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
The wings as well, are they pretty up for grabs?
Are just like a lot of areas in the team.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
Yeah, I think generally generally the whole team, I think
everybody knows that as he coach raises prepared to make
change and make make big decisions.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
So guys are on edge and know they need the front.
And the wingers are no different.
Speaker 6 (32:05):
Like you look at the money and and book for
Leroy who have been around, you know they're training really
really well. So yeah, that's it's a good place to
be all throughout their back line that guys know they've
got to they've got a front.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
What do you expect? You expect much the same this
week in terms of what the Pomber's brought, as it
easier to pay for us at a team again when
you've just played them.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
I don't know if it's easier, it's it's actually been
quite different.
Speaker 5 (32:33):
We had France three times in a row.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Yeah, you can't make massive changes, so I think I
think the Argentinians will be pretty passionate around around the game. Again,
I think by their own standards, I'd say they might
have been a little bit off physically in the in
the first half last week, and probably I think I
probably heard Old Philipe given them a bit of a
rover at half time and they're a bit of a
different theme physically in the second half. But yeah, generally,
(32:57):
you know, we know each other's game pretty well, but
we'll make.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
A few tweaks as to.
Speaker 6 (33:04):
Maybe get a little bit elder a surprise so that
we can we can hurt them in difference, But.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
It's going to be the same. It's going to be
a physical battle.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
You're going to have to be on and give them
nothing easier otherwise they'll hurt us.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
The full pack's going pretty well, scrum dominant, line out,
winning ball and three mall tries are laying a pretty
good platform.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Set piece was pretty pretty awesome in the weekly one.
It Yeah, and it obviously provides provides the good the
good malls and the and the good scrum, but also
gives us the option to tie forwards in and create
space in other parts of the field. So I make
the boys doing a great job up the up front,
and I need to keep driving that.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I appreciate your focus is totally on this test, but
as a coach, to keep one eye on South Riklin
and Australia. It was a hell of an upsets in
Alice Park. And you know, you guys go home and
play two sets against the spring Box. There is a
I don't know, part of your brain that's analyzing that
even even though you've got this test at hand.
Speaker 6 (34:08):
Yeah, I think, yeah, you know, ninety five percent focused
on what you've got here, but you know, I always
going to have a bit of a look at who's
the next opposition. That's just the nature of the game.
So you know, having keep and nice and I haven't
seen the game from the weekend yet. It sort of
obviously happened when we were getting ready and I saw
a few highlights around. Ozzie scored some you know, quite
opportunity to strives by the locks and took every opportunity
(34:30):
that came.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
It must have been an awesome game, but mate, they're both.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
There's going to be four awesome test matches to finish
the TRC, so it's all up for grabs. But you know,
the box will be better next week. And I was
here obviously, you know, playing some great rugby, so all
to look forward to.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Just lastly, I guess, in terms of when you come
off a win, how do you approach the week same
opposition as a total reset and how how satisfying it
would it be to go home with two victories from
from Argentina because it's an increasingly tough place to come
given the amosphere, given their improvement under Felipe over the
(35:11):
last year in particular.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
Yeah, I suppose, Yeah, it might be that's what we
came here for and it's it's what you know, it
was aimed to win twice over here, so it would
be really satisfying. Yeah, look, it's looking forward to looking
forward after that is what we're doing.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
The way.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
We've got a week off between the Argentina game and
the South African games, So yeah, happy, were happy when
we're at We've gotta we've got to be their best
again to beat Argentina on the weekend and and then
we'll we'll look into what comes after that, but you know,
the boys need to be excited about what's coming with
with the ARGI in the weekend and then and then
the recidity I see.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
We'll come back on Rugby Direct very shortly. We've got
to talk the box, we've got to talk to Wallabies
and we're gonna talk the Women's World Cup after this.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Every drive, drive and sixty sec, every tackle back, the tackle,
feet up again.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Before it's Ruy Direct.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by four Cliffs Solutions. Well,
this was a hell of an upset Mapes. I don't
think any saw this coming, especially at twenty two zip
down the Wallabies beating the spring Box. This was quite
incredible at Alice Park to see the Wallabies find something
(36:34):
that they haven't really had for twenty odd years and
it was you know, it was to me. To me,
I think it was their best win probably since the
three World Cup semi final against the All Blacks. In
all honesty, that was, you know, the Wallabies of old
at Alice Park. What did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I saw Tim Horn tweet something that he has never
been more proud of the Wallabies post retirement, so you're
probably on the money there with your comparison to go
back as far as three in terms of a Wallaby's
performance to really fly the flag, they did turn up.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Relatedly in that line.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Series, you could argue they could have, would have should
have won the second Test, and they did win the third.
So there have been massive sids of improvement from this
Wallaby side. But I still don't think anyone really gave
them a chance of going to Alice Park and winning
that Test. They were depleted going back to James O'Connor
at first five.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
There are a lot of question marks about that.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Pretty down on the ranks elsewhere as well, and then
down twenty two no. I was messaging a few chat
groups saying shit, the Wallaby is again pumped here and
low and behold. They go on to score thirty eight
unanswered points to blow away the world champions on home soil,
at their spiritual home. Just an absolutely phenomenal result. A
(37:55):
word on the spring box. Just bizarre tactics from me.
I don't know whether it's Tony Brown's influence or what
it was, but they went so far away from their strengths.
We talk about the balance of the Blacks game and
where their strength lies. Well, the Springbox tried to play
all the rugby was a money La box through the
intercept to Joseph sue Lee didn't have his best out
(38:21):
at ten, but there was so many performers for the
Wallabies went there. Tom Wright superb, Max Jorgensen on the wing,
Harry Wilson leading from the fronts just a magnificent result
that you know, really lights up the Rugby Championship, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
It certainly does, and you're right, no one predicted it,
really and yet the Wallabies came and delivered and it
was such a bizarre spring Box performance. It was like
there they've been taken of by aliens after half an
hour or whatever. In that game, and especially in the
second spell that they was trying to play a lot
of rugby when that is not necessarily the spring Box way.
(39:00):
And you look at the stats post game, you know
they carried the ball one hundred and thirty nine times
compared to the Wallabys forty seven. They pass a lot
more than kicked. Their ratio to kicking was well outside
the Wallabies. It just it felt like a Springbok performance
where they thought they were going to win and it
was an opportunity to maybe try a few tactics that
(39:22):
they had up their sleeve, with an eye to the
all Blacks, with an eye to quote unquote bigger challenges ahead,
and they ultimately came undone. And you know, I think
there's a little bit of you know, in Rassi erasmus is.
I think the phrase was dog shit or something like
that that he used. And you never will see the Springboks,
they don't think play that badly again in a rugby
championship game. It was like the souls evaporated them and
(39:44):
they forgot to how to play springbox rugby. But to me,
it felt like there was something bigger at played that
maybe they were trying to trial things, thinking this game
was going to be an easier win, and they ultimately
came unstuck.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I think there's a bit of arrogance, to be honest, elliot.
I think, well, when you're twenty two and all up,
I think you rightly think that you're on a roll,
that you're gone unassailable league. The match was in the bag,
and I think that's how it all came so easy
for the Springboks too. See Calisi just waltzing through some
really soft defense. They was scoring tries it will and
(40:19):
the way they played with reckless abandon really did play
into the Wallaby's hands. So I think what we also
saw is probably their preparation for that test. They hadn't
been put under pressure. They played Italy and Georgia leading
into that game, and it really did feel like there
was panic in the ranks as the Wallabys came back.
(40:40):
They didn't have any answers. There was a lack of composure,
lack of leadership. They didn't get you know, the bomb
squad was nullified Russia. Russmus named his team on the Monday,
and I think that's that sort of messaging perhaps seeped
through the squads and into that performance. So he'll be
(41:00):
tearing down the walls. You'd hate to be a player
if you've seen the footage of him really tearing shreds
off them during what was at the twenty twenty three
World Cup.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
After there, I think.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
It was at the pool loss to Ireland's saying they
didn't care and that the mums at home were embarrassed. Well,
what's he going to be like this week?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, there's going to be some hair drivers in the
changing rooms. You would think this week in the spring
box you would suspect, well, I don't think he's going
to name his team on a Monday again, but you
never know. It's Rassi and they would have to make
some changes this week. I'm not sure Marley Libok is
the test ten that the Springboks need with the style
(41:40):
that they usually want to play.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
No, I agree, And I don't know how close guys
like Damian Delende were and how much of an influence
they may have made, but I think Andre pollad' is
still their best test ten for me. I don't know
how far away he is, whether that was a tactical
decision or not, but.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Yeah, look, give credit to the Wallabies.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Anytime you're twenty two all down, they could have dropped
their heads, drop their bundles, their altitude and been completely humiliated,
and instead they rallied And I think that says a
lot about what Joe Schmidt's built with that team. And Jeez,
Rugby Australia, you know, you'd have to think they should
be doing everything they can to tap up twiggy forest.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Mortgage, the mortgage, the Mines do everything they can to
get them to stay because he's done an amazing rebuild,
hasn't there with that team?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
He certainly has. Yeah, it's been been nothing short of remarkable.
And you know with the with the rugby championship now
flipped on its head, it makes you know the coming
weeks very very interesting and she'd expect I forget to
probably balance back this week. But with an eye to
the blood is low, Liam and two legs, one at
Eden Park, one in Perth, that all of a sudden,
not that it's not always interesting the blood is low,
(43:03):
but you know, knowing the spring Box Wallabies have that
one of the spring Box in their back pocket. It
just it's a little bit extra spice.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Oh it does indeed.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
And look the Pumas weren't at the best of the
weekend either, but they'll pull off a result in this
tournament as well.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
So it's a fascinating rugby championship.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
What about all that result, the wall we's beaten, the
stunning the spring Box, the All Blacks regain the world
number one title, do they deserve it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Do we put any stock on that?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Not overly because it could very well change you know
in a week's time. I'm not sure if the ranking permutations,
but I think it's pretty tight at the top, and
if the All Blacks sorry South Africa win then they
could go back this week. And if the All Blacks win,
they may not retain the ranking. It is so tight
at the top. What I think it does illustrate, though,
is the tightness of world rugby at the moment. We
(43:54):
probably haven't seen a time like this. I mean, we
talked for twenty minutes at the start of the podcast
that the All Blacks aren't playing their best rugby, but
their ranks top of the world, so there are certainly
things to improve on. But I think ultimately it just
does show how type the thing is, the type the
rankings are, and how tight the world game is at
the moment. When it could have been three teams at
(44:15):
number one yesterday the spring Box the All Blacks if
they had lost, would have been Ireland would have gone
to number one. So it's a real squeeze at the
moment and hard to know put too much stock into
it week to week, But maybe if you're sitting up
there at the end of the calendar year, you go
that's an achievement and a job well done from the
All Blacks or whoever setting up the top.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
Yeah, I tend to agree. I think to take the
man too, you.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Need to defeat the champions and so the All Blacks
won't be satisfied with their performance and they've got bigger
fish to fry in many respects, don't they with the
I think they'd rather win the Rugby Championship title then
be deemed world number one. I think you're right that
it does mean something at the end of a calendar year,
(44:59):
because things can change so rapidly.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Finally, on Rugby Directly, Women's Rugby World Cut poised to
get under way later this week. Saturday morning, New Zealand
time England in the United States kick off the Blackfurn's
first game as next Monday morning against Spain half past four.
As they get their campaign underway. They have Japan the
following week. Look that first game LAMB, a game that
(45:23):
New Zealand should win and win well and should bank
the five points and get their tournament off to a
good start. But from a Women's World Cup mean this
is going to be a big tournament. In the UK,
Women's Rugby's Grand exponentially over the last decade or thereabouts.
This promises to be quite a special tournament that maybe
we haven't seen the likes of in women's rugby before
(45:44):
twenty twenty one. Played in twenty twenty two in New
Zealand was a great tournament, but it was over three
venues and obviously the finals Read and Park were a
great success. But feels like the interest level in England
is higher than it is anywhere around the globe, so
it should be a pretty special tournament.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
That's right, Ellie, and I think it's a sign of
the support in the UK and Europe in particular for
women's sport. Football is the same the English women's football
team going and winning the Euros and the support they
received and the parades when they came home, and that'll
be rerecated with the English rugby team. I think they'll
(46:24):
go close to selling out twicking them come the business
end of that tournament. It will be really well supported.
The Black Ferns the traveling affair, but aren't they getting
around England. I think they're in York for the opening
ceremony at the moments, and we'll travel around the country
and they'll feel that support and the buzz around the tournament.
(46:47):
There's nothing quite like a World Cup, so very interesting
to see how they go. Just to just one word
on I read a piece from Oslot in The Times
about the South African First five and just a truly
remarkable story of how she was left as a baby
at an orphanage and how Rugby's had a massive influence
(47:10):
on her life and career and she still hasn't hasn't
made appearance. So it's just one of those really unique stories.
And I guess you know something that is quite unique
to South Africa. Those sorts of tales are more common
than other parts of the world. So yeah, really interesting
insights and amazing story of how she's grown her life
(47:32):
and got herself to the world stage.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah, that sounds like a fascinating story and read that,
so I'll go and catch up on it. Liam, thanks
as always for your time and enjoy the week ahead
and we'll catch up again soon here on Rugby Director.
I thanks to Lars and Buzz English and Rugby Director
of course, powered by full Clive Solutions, lifting you and
your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
For more from News Talks ed b listen live on
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Straight down the Middle.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Of Drup Dickney Score.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Please try these.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Fourklift Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elliott Smith with
me as always, but some distance away we go to
Buenos aide Is where Lea Napier is for the New Zealand.
Here all joining us on Rugby Direct. Liam, greetings and
welcome from Argentina.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Good to catch up, oh, Elliott's yes, great to catch
up in the Argentinian capital and plenty to get stuck onto.
Isn't there in the Rugby Championship ups sets drama?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It's all happening, It certainly is all happening. Well, you
had a pretty good seat yesterday for the All Blacks
when over Argentina. Probably a pretty good place to start.
What were your baseline thoughts on that All Blacks performances?
They comfortably bet Argentina Barra sort of twenty minutes squeeze
in the second spell.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, first of all, it was an amazing atmosphere in
caught Over, the first time the All Blacks had been
there in thirty years, fifty five thousand fans and they
were certainly rocking pre cookoff and the All Blacks did
a great job of silence and them didn't They initially
three first half tries.
Speaker 4 (01:47):
And not completely dominant.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
There were some clunky moments, but comfortable, very comfortable at
halftime thirty one ten and you thought, shut the gate,
they're going to make an early Rugby Championship statements and
kick on from here. And then it was anything but
the second half fades returns, the discipline issues returned to
yellow cards. Scott Robinson went to his bench early and
(02:13):
there was some very nervous moments for the All Blacks
with their twenty one point lead whittled down to seven
points before too late. Summersony Takeyaho tries and the Ford
Pack really getting the All Blacks out of jail. Somewhats
going back to the mall and pushing clear for as
you say, pretty comfortable in the end, but the All
(02:35):
Blacks I think very mixed. The motions six tries bonus
point one, but some real frustrations in their second half performance.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
What was your read on it?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, look, we were talking about it at halftime in
our commentary here with former All Blacks half back An
Storing about the needs to kick on and really put
a number on Argentina and both in performance and I
suppose on the scoreboard as well. It would be a
statement to win that the All Blacks have been searching
for and they just couldn't get going in the second
spell and that's the frustrating and lingering thing happened in
(03:08):
Allington where they weren't comfortably but couldn't quite kick on
with the second half performance they desired, And really I
thought that the halftime probably came at the worst possible
time for the All Blacks. They obviously scored two or
three minutes after the siren in the first spell to
make it thirty one ten, but it felt like they
had a real ascendancy as they had into the break.
I think they had a ninety four percent possession over
(03:29):
the last ten minutes of the first spell, and then
a fifteen minute break kind of came at the worst
time in terms of that momentum, and they haven't found
a way to reset the switch and get that going
in the second spell. And I thought what Argentina did
really well straight after halftime was immediately apply pressure. The
penalty count was nine to four against Argentina at halftime,
(03:50):
it ended up being twelve all, and they just managed
to apply some pressure to get some early wins in
the second spell. And if anything, I don't know whether
it was conditions related or player related, maybe felt like
the All Blacks went to their bench a ted early
in some respects. Corthius Ratsma I thought was playing very
very well. Finlay Christie didn't have the greatest of nights.
(04:12):
The reserve props didn't really make an impact. The starting
ones we're having, you know, some some good moments and
then so in you know, Cody Taylor for as take Yaho.
You can probably agree with that, but kind of felt
maybe they went to the bench a little bit early
just to try and reset things in the second spell
when they felt they're under a little bit of pressure.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I think there wasn't that impact from the bench other
than Takyoho. And I thought Patrick two Plotu was good.
He made that one try saving tackle. Sounds like he
won't be available this week. Took quite a heavy knock
to the heads and went to hospital with concussions as
there's been cleared of anything major, but probably won't be available,
(04:53):
so we can touch on what that means from a
selection point of view. But yeah, the bench as a whole,
it's a bit of an ongoing thing for the All Blacks,
isn't it. There were a couple of times towards the
back end of last year they got the desired impact,
but I think with guys like Wallace the Tea t
and Mighty Williams and Tyrol Lomax and Cam Roygard, Caleb Clark,
(05:15):
these guys absence that is really affecting that impact from
the bench. And I agree that they probably went to
it early. Probably thoughts that they or they did have
a commanding lead and that's why they went to the
bench early and didn't get the desired results there.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
I guess some other issues, Eliot.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think the back line is not functioning as well
as the All Blacks would like. There were some real
clunky moments there that I think they only made two
line breaks the whole game. They did beats a number
of defenders, but if you look at the tries that
they scored. Three of them were from wolves, one of
them was from a piece of will Jordan brilliance, a hop,
a step, a break, and he puts Cortez lastmer in.
(05:58):
So they only really created you could argue two trials
or certainly the back line, and I think there's some
real concerns there at the moment. Billy Proctor's finding it
hard to step up to test level. I mean, a
big advocate for his He's played exceedingly well for the Hurricanes,
but is struggling to carry that impact through Rika Iwani's
(06:18):
switched to the wing not going well.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
They're looking to bring him.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Off his wing and get him evolved, but his hands
and letting them down on occasions. He was smacked big
time by Pablo Martera and then dropped another ball, And yeah,
I just I don't know how to put my finger
on exactly. Maybe it's the attacking shape, maybe it's basic skills,
but the back line is a btificant concern at the moment,
(06:43):
especially when the four pack is really largely delivering that
front foot platform.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, it certainly is, and I'm with you, I don't
know whether it's the attacking shape that is not allowing
someone like a Billy Propt to have the time and
space that he gets at Super rugby level, or whether
it is this that step up to Test level that
is making things more difficult. The defense lines are quicker
at Test level, the pressure is a lot more, but
(07:09):
he would be someone that has played so well at
Super rugby level that is just not being afforded the
time in space in this current All Black setup to
be able to do what he needs to with ball
in hand and what we've seen at Super rugby level.
He's not alone because I don't think Jordy Barrett probably
had his best Test match yesterday either. But it felt
like they were being crowded in the midfield and whether
(07:30):
that's the way that the All Blacks are attacking obviously
use the props at the moment to set up things
a little bit, and whether that allows the defensive line
to be a little bit more set when it comes
to midfield players. I don't know necessarily, but the back
line looks really really clunky and to an extent that
is just down to basic skilled execution. Catch pass is
(07:53):
becoming a real battle for the All Blacks at the moment.
Some drop ball as you mentioned there that you'd expect
these players to be able to do that we've seen
in Super rugby be able to do, yet their hands
and skill set is evading them. At Test level at
the moment.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
It is drop bulls, forward passes and there were a
couple of nice skip balls out to severa Reese's wing.
He scored two tries to taken tries there, but the
All Blacks did lead points out there and that will
be a frustration for them as well. So big, big
work on in that department. What about the discipline that
(08:31):
we have touched on, as you mentioned the penalty count
in the second half, also two yellow cards Billy Proctor
for a professional foul and Anton Lenna Brown came on
probably one of his worst Test performances, really gave away
an immediate penalty and then was yellow carded for a
unfortunate rugby collision where he rushed out of the line
and had the head clash, so.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
He was binned as well.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
That was a real problem for the All Blacks during
the Rugby Championship campaign last year. Yellow cards can prove
incredibly costly. The All Blacks cashed in on the Puma's
prop tight loose head props. Sorry get being yellowcuted in
the first half. So do you see those discipline issues
being a quick, fixed, easy solution. That is a real
bugbear of Scott Robinson. So I'm sure it'd be pretty
harsh on that this week.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, yeah, so it should be at halftime. As I mentioned,
nine four was the penalty count. Argentina conceded nine, the
All Blacks just four. By a full time it was
twelve apiece. And what Argentina did really really well, I
thought in the opening twenty minutes of that second spell
has put the All Blacks under pressure, forced them into
making decisions that would likely result in penalties, and it
(09:37):
increased the pressure. And we saw Julia Montoga at one
point ask the referee how many penalties are you going
to allow this team to concede? Does a wipe when
we can we score a try because the All Blacks
just seemingly we're giving up penalties for fun really, which
wasn't fun, but it was essentially what was happening on
the scoreboard. Now, whether that was down to Pierre Brossett
changing his interpretations at halftime, I actually thought he had
(09:58):
a pretty good refe game. The referee. The All Blacks
with it was fatigue, began to make some poor decisions
as the game went on in that penalty count level
against them, what eight and the second spell versus full
for Argentina. And you're right around the yellow cards and
Anton Lenett Brown in particular has a habit of conceiving
yellow cards when he's come off the bench and test matches.
(10:21):
It seems to be regularly that he is showing a
yellow card. I can't put my finger on exactly what
it is. He's a smart rugby player, but I mean
yesterday that could have easily have been broad obstruction, I thought,
But because it was a collision, they went with the
defensive player making the misread and he had to go
for ten minutes. I thought he was probably a little
(10:42):
hard done by there because it felt more obstruction than
anything given both players looking in opposite directions. But it
is becoming a worrying habit. And on top of that,
I don't think Anton Lenett Brown strikes It is the
bench player that the All Blacks are looking for. When
they talk about impact, they talk about wanting to own
the back end of games. Anton Lett Brown, to me,
(11:03):
is either a starter or he doesn't play at all.
He is not a bench player in this current All
Black side. If you're looking for impact, you see you
can cover twelve and thirteen and to a lesser extent
wing if you're really at a push. But to me,
it just doesn't offer that kind of bench impact that
you're after.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, I think it's a fair point because he is
there because of the versatility, isn't he There's not many
players that can play twelve and thirteen. It does tend
to be quite a specialist role though, those midfield duties.
But when you've got Arikawani on the wing who could
push into center, you do have the flexibility within that
(11:39):
starting team. So there's an argument for a quinta pier
a tav Tavanahua to get a chance if you are
really looking for that impact. So interesting to see whether
the All Black's pondered that this week. Maybe ntil Lena Brown.
There's a potential that he does face a judiciary for
something like that as well, so we'll wait and see
on that front. I guess we've touched on the back
(12:01):
line clunkiness and discipline issues, but the four pack is
the All Black strength at the moment. Isn't it the
scrum despite missing their both starting props, that the propping
depth in the All Blacks at the moment is phenomenal really,
that they can be missing tyro A Lomax and Ti
Mighty Williams and still completely dominate the Puma's pack at
(12:25):
scrum time. The line out with Brent Evans coming in
is working exceptionally well. Fabian Holland as a massive presence
there and the all three tries coming from that. The
All Blacks in the first half, even when their attack
wasn't functioning superbly, they were kicking to the corner and
setting everything off those line out drives, Boden Barrett, Jordie
(12:46):
Barrett pinning it to the corner and using the line
out as a weapon. So the forward pack Elliott is
setting the bar for this All Black team at the moment,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
It certainly is, yeah, and it's a very high bar.
It's been impressive what they're able to do. And you
know you can buy and large at the moment. You
know guarantee they're going to win pretty to all their
lineout ball. They didn't didn't lose any in that test yesterday.
Scrum though, were very very slide of and they conceded
one scrum penalty for hinging late on in the contest,
(13:18):
but by and large they had the Puma's number there.
So that's a really promising sign. And it's interesting there's
been a lot of chatterback here in the last twenty
four hours about whether the All Blacks need to be
a little bit more pragmatic and go, actually, maybe we're
not the team that we aspire to be when it
comes to playing that fast style of rugby, that attacking
style of rugby that New Zealanders love to see. And
(13:40):
maybe the strength at the moment with this group of
players and this coaching stuff actually lies up front, and
whether they should play more to those strengths than using
the back line. What do you make of that?
Speaker 4 (13:53):
I don't know if I subscribe to that totally. I
can see the argument for it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Certainly, that's where the All Black strength is, that's where
their dominance is coming. But I think Usiana rugby DNA
is using the ball, is playing fast, is using skills,
and I don't see any reason why they can't get
back to that or at least have.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
A complimentary balance. You look at some.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Of the attacking weapons in that back line. Will Jordan's
got to be one of the most potent threats in
world rugby, and it can't just be him doing it
on his own. But there are some new combinations across
that back line, aren't they, And I think that's what
we're seeing. Jordi Barrett and Billy Procter have played a
lot together for the Hurricanes, but that was I think
(14:37):
their third test together in the test scene. Riquawuan he's
had maybe three four tests on the wing and he
hadn't played on the wing for four years I think
it was at any level prior to this season, so
he's in an adjustment period.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Whether he remains there.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I think there's big question marks over the All blacks
preferred wings, so new combinations and I think a sense
of uncertainty about whether the players are in their best
positions contributing to the back why not functioning as well?
But I think the All Blacks should be aspiring to
play attacking forty as well as using their full pack
(15:18):
as a weapon just.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
On the defensive shift. It feels like the All Blacks,
you know, they put on a couple of big shifts
inside their twenty two but we saw France strike and
create opportunities inside the twenty two, and the All Blacks
feloff tackles on a couple of occasions. It was Albanos's
try yesterday where he glided through the line of the
defense was really, really poor. It feels like teams are
(15:41):
finding ways to get through the at the moment that
the All Blacks probably need to tighten up a little
bit when they're on the defense.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think they missed twenty five tackles, which is too
high for an All Black team. And I don't know
whether it's a system issue or a lack of concentration
at times, but they are conceding some really soft tries
and I think Finnley Christie dropped off a couple of tackles.
He wasn't alone, but yeah, that'll certainly be highlighted in
(16:13):
their review because it's no good just doing it for
five or ten minutes at a time, and you need
to be on and soft tries really hurt. You don't
yet you don't mind, or you can't argue if teams
pull off a brilliant set piece move or they grind
away for twenty thirty phases and break you down and
crash over. But for someone just to waltz through your
defensive line like that, that'll really hurt the All Blacks.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It certainly will anything else on the game specifically, before
we look at maybe some changes for this week.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Well, what about the Pumas.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
I don't think they played to the best of their ability,
did they. I think they're a team I think that
likes being rank outsiders. If you look at where and
when they've beaten the All Blacks, it's when they've been
written off. Three times in the last five years. They've
beaten the All Blacks, but it's all been away from home.
So when they're at home, maybe there's a bit of pressure,
(17:05):
a bit more spotlight, and maybe they struggle with that
expectation to a degree. They've claimed some big scalps in
recent years, the spring Box, the Wallabies, France, the British
and Iris lines.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
But I didn't think that was the best performance.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
This scrum struggled and some of their kicking was inaccurate.
They made a lot of errors as well, so I
wouldn't be surprised to see a few selection changes from
them this week.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
What did you make of the Pomas?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Yeah, I was disappointed by them in all honesty. Look,
I think the loose Ford trio has always showed up.
Polo Matteta, Marcos Kremer and Oviedle I thought were excellent.
Is always very very rarely do they have a bad game.
You know, there's a great myth that goes around around
Argentina's scrum and their props. But Makeo, Vivas and Delgado
(17:51):
and their replacements. You know, they're just not what you
need at test level in twenty twenty five and we
saw them make errors. They still you know, one of
them got yellow carded. They're not the kind of pillars
you need at scrum time. So until I find some
some bitter props, they're going to strugg at scrum time.
And it's not They're not the strength that it once was.
(18:12):
And then I thought in the back line, I thought
the half back gone zoo. I see you was too telegraphed.
On a number of occasions he would he would double
pump the ball, allowed the All Blacks to get up
in the line and disrupt the momentum of the pumas.
So I thought he was a player that battled in
the back line. I'm not sure why as well, for
Lpe Countempoe. He didn't look at Matao karatas one of
(18:34):
the best outside backs for the game, plays on the wing.
He's out of bay On, He's been one of the
Puma's best in recent times, so I was surprised they
didn't look at him. And I still think they missed
Amelionable fairly, who has been out with long term injuries
for almost two years now. Really and I know he's
cloring his way towards a comeback, but I feels like
(18:54):
they just maybe missing a couple of players in that
back line to really set them alight. What did you
make of them?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, I think the occasion, there's a lot of talk,
wasn't there about the fact that Pumas have never beaten
the All Blacks in Argentina, and perhaps that's a bit
of a weight of expectation for them. But yeah, I agree,
I think concerpently got a few of his selections wrong.
So I think we could see a few changes from
them this week as they as they look to rebound
(19:22):
in Buenos Aires.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, speaking of changes the All Blacks, we touched on
it a little bit earlier on what side will they
name come Friday morning? You mentioned Patrick two if you're
unlikely to play, Are there other changes that you can
foresee in the mix this week?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, I think we'll see to Mighty Williams come straight
back to start at Lucid prop and I think Wallace
to Titi will come straight back into starts at probably
at number eight, which would push Ardi to seven and
probably two Po remain at six. I guess is a
bit of a question mark with Patrick two below two
ruled out, do you retain some of Penny Female on
(20:04):
the bench as lock and cover or perhaps bringing a
Josh Lord. I would also like to see Kyle Preston
coming at half back. I just think he's got so
much more upside to fin lay Christie off the bench.
We talked about that impact before. Preston's a guy that
can really bring their impact. He kicks off both feet,
he's got pace, he's got great support lines, so I
(20:26):
think he deserves a chance. And Simon Parker is another
one I think they'll strongly consider. Can't see too many
changes across the back line. I think Bilbacks feel at
the moment that's their top team and I don't think
they'll take any chances. I think they'll know that Pumas
will want a response.
Speaker 4 (20:44):
What about you?
Speaker 3 (20:45):
You see a few chants for a few day booze.
Does Leroy Carter get a look in?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Yeah, I'd like to see Leroy Carter get a look in.
I mean it's hard, isn't it that he's not in
the official squads as it's been turned obviously he's there,
but they've got him morning nadaware. They've got Ruben Love
in the mix with them as well. But I think
Leroy Carter offers something different on the wing. I'd love
to see him get a crack. I think he can
be really dynamic at Test level, but hard to see.
(21:12):
Maybe he gets a looking on the bench potentially for
a late impact and he's a player that we talk
about impact. He could certainly bring some impact late in
the game with his out and out speed and also
his position. His ability to play multiple positions. He played
center recently in the NBC for Bay have plenty, He's
played in the wing. He can play half back as
well if needed. I think I think Kyle Preston has
(21:34):
to play this week. Finlay Christie was defensively missing. I
thought yesterday he's renowned as a defensive halfback, but I
thought he was pretty poor, so I'd like to see
that change that you mentioned there as well. But other
than that, I think they'll keep the same players in
positions around the team. Maybe Parker comes off the bench
(21:57):
for a debut, Female can be there as lock cover.
We saw during France they often picked two loose forwards,
obviously with the ability to move two po via back
into the second row if needed, So maybe that's an
opportunity to bring in those loose forwards late in the game.
But I think they need to need to look at
some of these players with an ie to South Africa
(22:19):
and ultimately obviously respecting Argentina as well. But they did
to get some players on the park ahead of that
test that Eden parking in a couple of weeks time
they do.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It's a balancing act, isn't it, to give players time
to expose them to try new things. But when you
think about that loose forward trio, I think they're going
to want to get Wallace TC in there with Artie
Severe and Tupu Vie because that combination hasn't played together
and so looking your head to the spring box, you
don't want to be rolling out a completely new combination
(22:52):
at Eden Park to try and protect that Fortress record.
So yeah, I think you can get the mix of
introducing a Kyle Preston on debut as well as bringing
back some of those real dynamic, powerful forwards and wallacity
to end Tomighty Williams, which should strengthen the bench impact
(23:12):
as well.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Indeed, before we go any further, you spoke to All
Black's assistant coach Jason Holland, so let's have a listen
to that now.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Jason Holland, thanks for making some time and buonos Aidre's
you would have made a few trips over here back
in the days during your time as Hurricanes head coach
to play the Huguards. What are you? What do your
sort of memories and I guess experiences of Argentina.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Yeah, I've had a couple of trips over.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
Actually stayed in this place and it's been always been
pretty enjoyable. A the people over here are called the emotional,
but love their footy and then in its pretty good
city here, so always enjoy it. Always a tough camera footy,
the way these boys are and the way they're tough
boys and smashing fifteen steaks a week and looking to
(24:00):
hurt people spar it's it's calling, Yeah, one of the
better places to go.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
I reckon, what's what's the feeling in camp? I guess
after the performance at the weekends six tries, bonus point victory,
but I guess a bit of a patchy performance.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Yeah, there was a hell of a lot of good
stuff in the first half, especially you know, I felt
we if we got if we're more accurate and.
Speaker 5 (24:23):
Got a bit more ruthless, we probably could have been
more ahead at half time.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
Do you know?
Speaker 5 (24:27):
We probably a few.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Average decisions in attack, we could have scored a couple
of tries and a little bit of skill set stuff
with us down. But at other times we were really
you know, we put the Argentinians under mess of pressure
through our game. But yeah, a lot we're still and
any footy team you want to be better, and we've
still got lots of areas and we want to keep
being better. But we just had a bonus point win
(24:49):
in Argentina and and that you know, that's that's never
easy to come by. So there's a lot of good
going on. We just got to find all the little
ways to be better.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Before we touch on the nuts. And bolts of the game.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I guess I'm.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Patrick two blow who went to hospital of concussion. Looked
like he had a pretty decent dent in his head.
What what actually happened there?
Speaker 6 (25:10):
I'm just sure that little he had to put a
glancing blow with one of the loosey's heads. I think
he's I've just come out of a line out strategy meeting,
so he's he's got concussion sentence, but he's thinking pretty
clearly around the line out straight for the week.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
Luck, he's taking a bang and this I think he
need to get checked up and they would be unlikely
to be ready for this weekend. But Medock's going to
keep an eye on for the next couple of days.
But ye're one of those things being in the head.
But you know, I don't think it's too serious. But
he's going to be checked up on the next few days.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Will that affect the balances squad much so us? He's
got three traditional locks and your starting team. Will it
change your thinking much with him unavailable? Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Firstly, you lose someone like Paddy who's been outstanding for
us and in the weekend again, she's that what he
added when he came off the bench with his carry
and his energy was outstanding. So it's always you always
lose something if you lose Patty. But you know, as
you would have heard, the depth is really important to us,
and guys been out to step in and the young
fellow FABS has gone pretty good since he's been in
and scooped Barrett's back. And you know, we've got We've
(26:14):
got lots of bodies here with Toops and with Lordie here,
So no, I'll just be basically be an opportunity for
someone else if Patty doesn't make it, and nothing will
change in the way we try and play.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
What about Anton and Brown? Obviously the yellow card head
knock as well. Watts has availability.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Yeah, you know, a bit of a being on the
Snarz But yeah, I think he's another one who has
to pass a couple of things as early in the week,
so we'll know more by you know, as he ticks
something off on Monday and Tuesday, but we'll definitely know
that by the.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
End of Tuesday and the rest of the squad any
other serious bangs.
Speaker 6 (26:53):
I think we've been pretty lucky. Actually, you know, boys
that have come back, you know, like Scooter as an example,
got his fifty to fifty five minutes and got through
that well. And everyone else is tracking pretty nicely, so
I don't think from memory as anybody else will be
earned out.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
How nice will it be to get Wallace Citys and
Marty Williams back to dynamic, big, powerful, skillful forwards.
Speaker 6 (27:21):
Yeah, the last time we saw them in all black jerseys,
they were on fire, went there at the end of
last year and the Northern tour, So your time's in
great neck firstly, and yeah, he's room to go and
they've been messive boost to us. You know, he's obviously
the boys have stepped in and done really well. You know,
obviously grud is still playing well and Ollie's taken his chances.
But you know there's something around times with the size
(27:42):
of him and in his dynamic scrummaging plus around the field,
so he'll be awesome. And you know, I feel will
he's good to go as well and back to where
he was and you get that dynamic sort of ex
factor from from him and whoever he's worth in our
luses and it's it's pretty exciting to put together plans
to get them get their hands as the ball in.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
His hands appreciate you. You won't want to give too
much way, But how closely do you look at one
of the rookies Simon Parker, Kyle Preston and and Leroy
Carter new to the squads, but you know they've had
a weekend. I'm sure they're pretty keen to go. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Look, but all we've been tracking those boys obviously all
through super and so with the four I suppose in
the Nines case five deep with with Finn and and KP.
But you might have all come in trained really well,
we've all got lots of energy you know from from Bomford,
the KP and and Simon in his own way that
(28:40):
we've got lots of energy. So yeah, they putting the
best foot forward and putting their hand up. So yeah,
if they own selection, there'll be no problem there because
they're ready to go.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
The general theme pretty keen to build combinations and cohesion.
They're given what's to come and and what you're trying
to achieve in this tournament.
Speaker 6 (28:59):
Yeah, look, it's it's been good over over the French series. Obviously,
get people to run and yeah, generally the cohesion is
important going forward. We're obviously leading through Argentina into another
four big test matches, especially after what we saw.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
On the weekend.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
So yeah, they've been out able to continually going forward,
but still form. You know, you have to have to
be informed because because of the depth and the boys
pushing you. We've seen that rays not not afraid to
make changes, you know, based on based on form.
Speaker 5 (29:33):
So yeah, see, whatever's.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Your your area of expertise at the backs and the
attack some good things at the weekend and then I
guess some some clunky things as well. What's your assessment
of how that's going.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, look, we've I think in.
Speaker 6 (29:53):
The weekend we're a couple of poor decisions and a
couple of little bits of skill away from from being
really effective.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
But that's the challenges and at this level we need
to be better.
Speaker 6 (30:02):
We need to be able to put more moments together
where we have good skill sets and.
Speaker 5 (30:07):
Then go to with So we're doing a lot of
good things. The boys are working really.
Speaker 6 (30:11):
Hard and we're just going to make sure we can
we can do things I suppose be accurate for longer.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
Is it mainly that skill set thing, because if you're
if a past sticks or the ball's not dropped, that
the shape looks like it's there.
Speaker 6 (30:27):
Yeah, well we feel like yeah, yeah, we feel like, yeah,
we've just got to get some continuity in that game,
and we've got some good ideas around how we get there.
But I suppose the skill set part is massive skill
set part of just being able to pass that way
under pressure, understand that teams are going to want to
take away our time and space, and understand how to
beat that.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
Billy Propter a guy you know, well, I guess from
the outside, maybe it seems like it's taking them some
time to adjust to Test Rugby. That that happens to
every run to a degree, it's a new combination At
Test Rugby, there's less time and space how to assess
(31:09):
where he's at and how he's going.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Yeah, look, he's like he's slodling too. The in the
group really well and it isn't afraid to lead at times,
you know, around things. He's a real expert on you know,
especially around the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
So he's been he's been great in the environment.
Speaker 6 (31:23):
I think it's just a you know, we know Billy's
really consistent and everything he does, and he just needs
to keep striving to do that.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
You know him and him and Jory have being been
going really well together.
Speaker 6 (31:35):
But whenever you know any of our other midfielders like
Big Jim and Quinn and now we've got the chance
up with lots of pressures. It's a great it's an
area of great competition. So it's good that the boys
know they got to they got to front every week.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
The wings as well, are they pretty up for grabs?
Are just like a lot of areas in the team.
Speaker 6 (31:53):
Yeah, I think generally generally the whole team, I think
everybody knows that as he coach raises prepared to make
change and make make big decisions.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
So guys are on edge and know they need the front.
And the wingers are no different.
Speaker 6 (32:05):
Like you look at the money and and book for
Leroy who have been around, you know they're training really
really well. So yeah, that's it's a good place to
be all throughout their back line that guys know they've
got to they've got a front.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
What do you expect? You expect much the same this
week in terms of what the Pomber's brought, as it
easier to pay for us at a team again when
you've just played them.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
I don't know if it's easier, it's it's actually been
quite different.
Speaker 5 (32:33):
We had France three times in a row.
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Yeah, you can't make massive changes, so I think I
think the Argentinians will be pretty passionate around around the game. Again,
I think by their own standards, I'd say they might
have been a little bit off physically in the in
the first half last week, and probably I think I
probably heard Old Philipe given them a bit of a
rover at half time and they're a bit of a
different theme physically in the second half. But yeah, generally,
(32:57):
you know, we know each other's game pretty well, but
we'll make.
Speaker 5 (33:02):
A few tweaks as to.
Speaker 6 (33:04):
Maybe get a little bit elder a surprise so that
we can we can hurt them in difference, But.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
It's going to be the same. It's going to be
a physical battle.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
You're going to have to be on and give them
nothing easier otherwise they'll hurt us.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
The full pack's going pretty well, scrum dominant, line out,
winning ball and three mall tries are laying a pretty
good platform.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Set piece was pretty pretty awesome in the weekly one.
It Yeah, and it obviously provides provides the good the
good malls and the and the good scrum, but also
gives us the option to tie forwards in and create
space in other parts of the field. So I make
the boys doing a great job up the up front,
and I need to keep driving that.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
I appreciate your focus is totally on this test, but
as a coach, to keep one eye on South Riklin
and Australia. It was a hell of an upsets in
Alice Park. And you know, you guys go home and
play two sets against the spring Box. There is a
I don't know, part of your brain that's analyzing that
even even though you've got this test at hand.
Speaker 6 (34:08):
Yeah, I think, yeah, you know, ninety five percent focused
on what you've got here, but you know, I always
going to have a bit of a look at who's
the next opposition. That's just the nature of the game.
So you know, having keep and nice and I haven't
seen the game from the weekend yet. It sort of
obviously happened when we were getting ready and I saw
a few highlights around. Ozzie scored some you know, quite
opportunity to strives by the locks and took every opportunity
(34:30):
that came.
Speaker 5 (34:30):
It must have been an awesome game, but mate, they're both.
Speaker 6 (34:35):
There's going to be four awesome test matches to finish
the TRC, so it's all up for grabs. But you know,
the box will be better next week. And I was
here obviously, you know, playing some great rugby, so all
to look forward to.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Just lastly, I guess, in terms of when you come
off a win, how do you approach the week same
opposition as a total reset and how how satisfying it
would it be to go home with two victories from
from Argentina because it's an increasingly tough place to come
given the amosphere, given their improvement under Felipe over the
(35:11):
last year in particular.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
Yeah, I suppose, Yeah, it might be that's what we
came here for and it's it's what you know, it
was aimed to win twice over here, so it would
be really satisfying. Yeah, look, it's looking forward to looking
forward after that is what we're doing.
Speaker 5 (35:29):
The way.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
We've got a week off between the Argentina game and
the South African games, So yeah, happy, were happy when
we're at We've gotta we've got to be their best
again to beat Argentina on the weekend and and then
we'll we'll look into what comes after that, but you know,
the boys need to be excited about what's coming with
with the ARGI in the weekend and then and then
the recidity I see.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
We'll come back on Rugby Direct very shortly. We've got
to talk the box, we've got to talk to Wallabies
and we're gonna talk the Women's World Cup after this.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Every drive, drive and sixty sec, every tackle back, the tackle,
feet up again.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Before it's Ruy Direct.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by four Cliffs Solutions. Well,
this was a hell of an upset Mapes. I don't
think any saw this coming, especially at twenty two zip
down the Wallabies beating the spring Box. This was quite
incredible at Alice Park to see the Wallabies find something
(36:34):
that they haven't really had for twenty odd years and
it was you know, it was to me. To me,
I think it was their best win probably since the
three World Cup semi final against the All Blacks. In
all honesty, that was, you know, the Wallabies of old
at Alice Park. What did you make of it?
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I saw Tim Horn tweet something that he has never
been more proud of the Wallabies post retirement, so you're
probably on the money there with your comparison to go
back as far as three in terms of a Wallaby's
performance to really fly the flag, they did turn up.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
Relatedly in that line.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Series, you could argue they could have, would have should
have won the second Test, and they did win the third.
So there have been massive sids of improvement from this
Wallaby side. But I still don't think anyone really gave
them a chance of going to Alice Park and winning
that Test. They were depleted going back to James O'Connor
at first five.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
There are a lot of question marks about that.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Pretty down on the ranks elsewhere as well, and then
down twenty two no. I was messaging a few chat
groups saying shit, the Wallaby is again pumped here and
low and behold. They go on to score thirty eight
unanswered points to blow away the world champions on home soil,
at their spiritual home. Just an absolutely phenomenal result. A
(37:55):
word on the spring box. Just bizarre tactics from me.
I don't know whether it's Tony Brown's influence or what
it was, but they went so far away from their strengths.
We talk about the balance of the Blacks game and
where their strength lies. Well, the Springbox tried to play
all the rugby was a money La box through the
intercept to Joseph sue Lee didn't have his best out
(38:21):
at ten, but there was so many performers for the
Wallabies went there. Tom Wright superb, Max Jorgensen on the wing,
Harry Wilson leading from the fronts just a magnificent result
that you know, really lights up the Rugby Championship, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
It certainly does, and you're right, no one predicted it,
really and yet the Wallabies came and delivered and it
was such a bizarre spring Box performance. It was like
there they've been taken of by aliens after half an
hour or whatever. In that game, and especially in the
second spell that they was trying to play a lot
of rugby when that is not necessarily the spring Box way.
(39:00):
And you look at the stats post game, you know
they carried the ball one hundred and thirty nine times
compared to the Wallabys forty seven. They pass a lot
more than kicked. Their ratio to kicking was well outside
the Wallabies. It just it felt like a Springbok performance
where they thought they were going to win and it
was an opportunity to maybe try a few tactics that
(39:22):
they had up their sleeve, with an eye to the
all Blacks, with an eye to quote unquote bigger challenges ahead,
and they ultimately came undone. And you know, I think
there's a little bit of you know, in Rassi erasmus is.
I think the phrase was dog shit or something like
that that he used. And you never will see the Springboks,
they don't think play that badly again in a rugby
championship game. It was like the souls evaporated them and
(39:44):
they forgot to how to play springbox rugby. But to me,
it felt like there was something bigger at played that
maybe they were trying to trial things, thinking this game
was going to be an easier win, and they ultimately
came unstuck.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
I think there's a bit of arrogance, to be honest, elliot.
I think, well, when you're twenty two and all up,
I think you rightly think that you're on a roll,
that you're gone unassailable league. The match was in the bag,
and I think that's how it all came so easy
for the Springboks too. See Calisi just waltzing through some
really soft defense. They was scoring tries it will and
(40:19):
the way they played with reckless abandon really did play
into the Wallaby's hands. So I think what we also
saw is probably their preparation for that test. They hadn't
been put under pressure. They played Italy and Georgia leading
into that game, and it really did feel like there
was panic in the ranks as the Wallabys came back.
(40:40):
They didn't have any answers. There was a lack of composure,
lack of leadership. They didn't get you know, the bomb
squad was nullified Russia. Russmus named his team on the Monday,
and I think that's that sort of messaging perhaps seeped
through the squads and into that performance. So he'll be
(41:00):
tearing down the walls. You'd hate to be a player
if you've seen the footage of him really tearing shreds
off them during what was at the twenty twenty three
World Cup.
Speaker 4 (41:10):
After there, I think.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
It was at the pool loss to Ireland's saying they
didn't care and that the mums at home were embarrassed. Well,
what's he going to be like this week?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, there's going to be some hair drivers in the
changing rooms. You would think this week in the spring
box you would suspect, well, I don't think he's going
to name his team on a Monday again, but you
never know. It's Rassi and they would have to make
some changes this week. I'm not sure Marley Libok is
the test ten that the Springboks need with the style
(41:40):
that they usually want to play.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
No, I agree, And I don't know how close guys
like Damian Delende were and how much of an influence
they may have made, but I think Andre pollad' is
still their best test ten for me. I don't know
how far away he is, whether that was a tactical
decision or not, but.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Yeah, look, give credit to the Wallabies.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Anytime you're twenty two all down, they could have dropped
their heads, drop their bundles, their altitude and been completely humiliated,
and instead they rallied And I think that says a
lot about what Joe Schmidt's built with that team. And Jeez,
Rugby Australia, you know, you'd have to think they should
be doing everything they can to tap up twiggy forest.
Speaker 4 (42:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Mortgage, the mortgage, the Mines do everything they can to
get them to stay because he's done an amazing rebuild,
hasn't there with that team?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
He certainly has. Yeah, it's been been nothing short of remarkable.
And you know with the with the rugby championship now
flipped on its head, it makes you know the coming
weeks very very interesting and she'd expect I forget to
probably balance back this week. But with an eye to
the blood is low, Liam and two legs, one at
Eden Park, one in Perth, that all of a sudden,
not that it's not always interesting the blood is low,
(43:03):
but you know, knowing the spring Box Wallabies have that
one of the spring Box in their back pocket. It
just it's a little bit extra spice.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Oh it does indeed.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
And look the Pumas weren't at the best of the
weekend either, but they'll pull off a result in this
tournament as well.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
So it's a fascinating rugby championship.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
What about all that result, the wall we's beaten, the
stunning the spring Box, the All Blacks regain the world
number one title, do they deserve it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Do we put any stock on that?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Not overly because it could very well change you know
in a week's time. I'm not sure if the ranking permutations,
but I think it's pretty tight at the top, and
if the All Blacks sorry South Africa win then they
could go back this week. And if the All Blacks win,
they may not retain the ranking. It is so tight
at the top. What I think it does illustrate, though,
is the tightness of world rugby at the moment. We
(43:54):
probably haven't seen a time like this. I mean, we
talked for twenty minutes at the start of the podcast
that the All Blacks aren't playing their best rugby, but
their ranks top of the world, so there are certainly
things to improve on. But I think ultimately it just
does show how type the thing is, the type the
rankings are, and how tight the world game is at
the moment. When it could have been three teams at
(44:15):
number one yesterday the spring Box the All Blacks if
they had lost, would have been Ireland would have gone
to number one. So it's a real squeeze at the
moment and hard to know put too much stock into
it week to week, But maybe if you're sitting up
there at the end of the calendar year, you go
that's an achievement and a job well done from the
All Blacks or whoever setting up the top.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
Yeah, I tend to agree. I think to take the
man too, you.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Need to defeat the champions and so the All Blacks
won't be satisfied with their performance and they've got bigger
fish to fry in many respects, don't they with the
I think they'd rather win the Rugby Championship title then
be deemed world number one. I think you're right that
it does mean something at the end of a calendar year,
(44:59):
because things can change so rapidly.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Finally, on Rugby Directly, Women's Rugby World Cut poised to
get under way later this week. Saturday morning, New Zealand
time England in the United States kick off the Blackfurn's
first game as next Monday morning against Spain half past four.
As they get their campaign underway. They have Japan the
following week. Look that first game LAMB, a game that
(45:23):
New Zealand should win and win well and should bank
the five points and get their tournament off to a
good start. But from a Women's World Cup mean this
is going to be a big tournament. In the UK,
Women's Rugby's Grand exponentially over the last decade or thereabouts.
This promises to be quite a special tournament that maybe
we haven't seen the likes of in women's rugby before
(45:44):
twenty twenty one. Played in twenty twenty two in New
Zealand was a great tournament, but it was over three
venues and obviously the finals Read and Park were a
great success. But feels like the interest level in England
is higher than it is anywhere around the globe, so
it should be a pretty special tournament.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
That's right, Ellie, and I think it's a sign of
the support in the UK and Europe in particular for
women's sport. Football is the same the English women's football
team going and winning the Euros and the support they
received and the parades when they came home, and that'll
be rerecated with the English rugby team. I think they'll
(46:24):
go close to selling out twicking them come the business
end of that tournament. It will be really well supported.
The Black Ferns the traveling affair, but aren't they getting
around England. I think they're in York for the opening
ceremony at the moments, and we'll travel around the country
and they'll feel that support and the buzz around the tournament.
(46:47):
There's nothing quite like a World Cup, so very interesting
to see how they go. Just to just one word
on I read a piece from Oslot in The Times
about the South African First five and just a truly
remarkable story of how she was left as a baby
at an orphanage and how Rugby's had a massive influence
(47:10):
on her life and career and she still hasn't hasn't
made appearance. So it's just one of those really unique stories.
And I guess you know something that is quite unique
to South Africa. Those sorts of tales are more common
than other parts of the world. So yeah, really interesting
insights and amazing story of how she's grown her life
(47:32):
and got herself to the world stage.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah, that sounds like a fascinating story and read that,
so I'll go and catch up on it. Liam, thanks
as always for your time and enjoy the week ahead
and we'll catch up again soon here on Rugby Director.
I thanks to Lars and Buzz English and Rugby Director
of course, powered by full Clive Solutions, lifting you and
your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
For more from News Talks ed b listen live on
air or online and Keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio
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