August 24, 2025 • 41 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Liam Napier pore over the All Blacks' defeat to Argentina in Buenos Aires and contemplate what went wrong and whether the issues in the All Blacks are now systemic - and how to fix them as the prospect of South Africa bears down on the All Blacks next week at Eden Park.
We also discuss the Black Ferns' opening World Cup, New Zealand Rugby renewing its broadcast partnership with Sky and a check-in on the NPC as the Ranfurly Shield changes hands.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
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Speaker 2 (00:20):
Drum Dickney Score, Try these.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Pocket inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forkliffs Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith talk
Lead Rugby commentator and with me as always Liam Napier,
Rugby correspondent from the New Zealand Herald, checking in from
buea side Is Airport's Liam Welcome and hopefully you're you're
parked up and ready to get some shut eye on
(00:58):
the big verd back home.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Wella eliotto, that's how I'm gonna deem your name and
to be Spanish in your and yes, long fly home
three three flights via Santiago and Australia, but it will
be an even longer flight home for the All Blackswona
after that result.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, it will be top line thoughts. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
What did you make of that being on the ground
and seeing that performance from the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well, it was a very special night for Los Pumas
and Argentina. Their first win over the All Blacks in
Argentina in the eighteenth attempt. They'd had the draw in
nineteen eighty five. And I'll tell you what, they enjoyed
it because they were rocking at the stadium, the Pumas
that a victory lap afterwards, not a soul left.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
They were bouncing, singing, chanting.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
So they really enjoyed that result and they fully deserved it.
And look, I'm gotta be honest, I did not see
that result coming for the All Blacks.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Did not see that performance coming.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
It wasn't as if Scott Robertson rested a bunch of players.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
I actually thought he was quite conservative.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I would have liked to seen Kyle Preston get to
go on the bench, maybe a Leroy Carter as well.
But he rolled out his best team, best available, only
made one starting change, and the performance didn't match that.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Did it? It was?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
It was terrible, really, three yellow cards, but it just
goes so much wider than that. They all Becks missed
forty tackles, their composure at the death. They couldn't reel
the Pumas in their restarts they couldn't get that going
and they couldn't penetrate the Puma's defense, so some glaring
(02:45):
issues under the high ball as well, So there's a
lot to fix in the next two weeks before Crob
fronting the box.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
Eden Parker isn't there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, there certainly is.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's hard to know really where to start in a
performance as bad as that. For me, I think it
was probably their worst performance, maybe since the twenty nineteen
World Cup semi final against England where they just didn't
fire a shot that night.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It felt similarly.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I know they had a couple of tries and they
were at one stage leading, but that was a performance
with virtually no positives whatsoever, and it's really hard to
know where to start. As I said in regards to that,
but just the probably all start the aerial contest and
the All Blacks is getting completely outdone. In the year
Will Jordan had one of his worst nights as an
All Black. They were targeted there, couldn't win anything aerially,
(03:28):
and just really seem to battle with not only the
aerial contest, but also restarts as an area that they
can increasingly coming under pressure and not able to get
clean ball off the back of it, but lost Pombers
basically unlocked the key to the fence by hammering the
All Blacks with the aerial contest, and the All Blacks
spilled the ball, couldn't take it cleanly on a number
(03:49):
of occasions.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It was really really poor.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
It was Elliott and this is not something new.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
We've talked about that the All Blacks issues under the
high ball. Certainly for all of this year and probably
going back to last year. The wingers, the selections there
have been under the.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Spot light, haven't they.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I spoke to Will Jordan after the game and he said, look,
we knew it was coming and we didn't deal with it.
So it's not as if Piel Blacks were blindsided. The
Pumas are a team that kick a lots, are very
good in the air, but there's it's an area where
there's been a rule change in recent years where you
can't protect the jumper, can you.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
There's no blocking and that makes it a bit of
a free for all.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So you've got loose Ford's wingers throwing arms in and
it makes a bit of a scrappy contest and the
All Blacks just didn't deal with that. There were times
also when it wasn't just the back three that kicks
went up in the middle of the field and players
were standing around looking at each other, and then you've
got a case of fin Lay Christie, one of the
smallest fokes on the field trying to leap up and
(04:56):
claim the high ball. So lack of communication, lack of accuracy,
and that's certainly an area where the spring Box targeted
the Wallabies, and looking at the tape of field Blacks
and the Boomers, they'll come for them hard again there
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We might get into some changes or possible personnel changes
a little bit later, but what are the immediate solutions
do you think to fixing this aerial problem? And it's
not as simple as just hammering aerial practice at training, surely,
but they need to find solutions pretty quick because as
you said that the spring Box are going to bring
exactly the same thing. And maybe it's in the coaching
setup where they just don't have that kind of personnel
(05:33):
at the moment to be able to teach that aerial contest.
You think of mcburn makes the kick who is part
of that all black set up for so long AFL background,
I mean, is there someone like him that could potentially
come in, you know, not mcburn specifically, but someone from
the AFL round where aerial kicking is so big and
pressure is such a big thing, that could maybe come in.
Or is it just a matter of hammering that high
(05:55):
ball that training over the next week or so.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
That's a good point you raised. Mcburn was very specialist
in that regard, wasn't he. I'm sure there's others they
could well tap into. To Wayne Smith, he's in an
advisory capacity for Scott Robertson to tap into it at
any time. He might have some thoughts on how to
improve that area. Look, i'd back a guy like Will
(06:19):
Jordan to bounce back from that performance, but I think
someone like a moaning Daraua is actually really good in
the air, very skillful. But it's probably not on just
the catcher alone. Bill Blicks need to find ways to
You can't protect the kicker as such, but you can
have people stationed around so when that ball does get
(06:42):
slapped back, that get that hunger, get that desire to
dive on it, to be first there to communicate well.
So I think there are there are fixes, but it's
an area that they desperately need to address, and for me,
I would have Ammani Naraua coming in for sever Reese.
I'm not sure if lee Roy Carter is necessarily the
answer because he's another small winger, isn't he So I
(07:04):
think he would potentially be targeted there. But I think
you're right that's is certainly in the spotlight.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, absolutely, Look Caleb Clark can't be too far away either.
Not sure if he were ready for South Africa as yet,
but he's another player that is strong area.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
We've seen it a lot of times for the Blues.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
He'll be a welcome addition back to that All Blacks
backline in terms of what he can do e really,
which probably flows into the wings and the area that
the All Blacks just weren't able to get a lot
out of, both distribution wise but also through meters gained
over the course of the game. Sever Reese and Rico
(07:42):
Yuwanne have been stationed there for a couple of tests
now and really didn't have a huge influence on the game.
Sevu was quite quiet. I think he had four carries
in the end. Rico Yowane was similarly quiet. He had
two carries on the night and obviously no line breaks
between either of them, because there's only one line break
(08:04):
from the All Blacks during the game. But I think
big picture, the wings are a real issue the All Blacks,
which flows into that aerial kicking problem as well.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It does, and that's probably a reflection of the back
line attack in general, isn't it. Elliott's I think there's
As you mentioned, they're one line break, but the week
previous when the All Blacks got a bonus point winners
scored six tries, there was only two line brakes, So
the back line attack is quite.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Clunky at the moment. They're not getting the best from that.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I think at the weekend only had about forty percent
of the ball and what they did have was not
on a front foot platform.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
They had vastly less.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Post contact meters than the Pumas, who were led by
an inspirational performance from Pablo Matela. They got some real
pay from their big forwards punching through the middle of
the All Blacks. So yeah, I think attack in general,
but you want your wings going looking for work as well.
So those carry stats are quite alarming from from the
(09:03):
All Black swings, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah they are, and you're right, post contact meters is staggering.
And these are the if you're not much of a
rugby stats, and now these are the meters basically, once
the first contact is initiated by the defense line, how
many more meters you get after that? And Argentina just
absolutely bossed the All Blacks when it came to that.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
In the game yesterday.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
The stats were quite astounding in the end, three hundred
and ninety two post contact meters to one hundred and
fifty four meters carried Oney one hundred and three versus
five hundred and thirty, which speaks to a whole back
line issue.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
The attack was clunky.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Didn't help that Cortez Ratzima went off in the eighteenth minute.
Finlay Christy came on and did a serviceable job. I thought,
probably in fact, one of the better All Blacks backs
on that night. Don't think he's a long term answer,
but it was just clunky, and the back line is
seemingly just. It feels like seven individuals playing to their
(09:59):
own tune, their own rhythm. At the moment, no one's leading,
and they're basically waiting for individual moments of brilliants for
something to happen. And that is not going to win
too many rugby matches.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
And you're right, I think they are playing as individuals
and I think one of the problems is that it
looks to me like they're drifting quite a lot across
the field. They need somebody to straight They needs some
deception in terms of changes of angles and to punch
some holes, some real direct, strong carries. And yeah, if
(10:35):
you go back the previous week when they scored six tries,
I think what's one two?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Three of those came off the mall.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
One was an individual piece of brilliance from Will Jordan,
so they only really created two tries. So this is
not a new issue. I think. To be fair to
the All Blacks back line, they didn't have that front
foot platform. They had limited ball against Argentina. But it
is a worry because their attack is not firing and
(11:03):
your Blacks are only really getting dominance in scoring points
when they go to their set peace strength that their
line out as a real weapon for them. Their scrum
is still functioning very well the mall, but the back
line is a big question mark.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, and you look at the carries for the All Blacks,
nine for artis a v seven each for Scott Barrett
and Will Jordan, five for Proctor and Taylor and Takyaho,
those numbers that are dominated by the Fords, which to
an extent you would expect largely, but there's not enough
carries their Publimitariy had eighteen for the Pumas and was
(11:42):
getting GameLine meters every time that he carried in what
I thought was a staggerantly good performance from the Pumas.
Another one to touch on is the discipline, and this
has been an issue for the All Blacks not only
for the last eighteen months, but for basically the last
dare I say a decade or thereabouts. Their discipline is
(12:04):
playing to the rules that they think should be in
the game, not the rules that actually are there. And
Will Jordan, you know, changing his line yesterday sevu Reese
with the charge down pass. I mean, I don't like
that rule particularly much, but it was clear and obvious
what he did there, and that's going to invite a
yellow card there every day of the week. Two PO
(12:25):
five watched on replay a couple of times now for
what was being deemed there. I think Pablo Materia passing
in a knockdown. I don't think Pablo was trying to
pass it all I think may have been slightly dutted there,
but regardless, that's two yellow cards that were fairly legal,
three that were dished out. Penalty account was poor against
the All Blacks as well, and it's an ongoing issue
(12:47):
that the All Blacks just can't get their discipline right.
I know our colleague Greg called them dumb yesterday. What's
your take on it.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
I think you can stomach penalties that effort plays, you know,
trying to get a turnover, maybe pushing it off the
line a bit quick, trying to make a tackle. But
it's the it's the unnecessary ones, brain explosions, and Bill Blacks.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Are self destructing at times.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
They are self sabotaging by giving away these yellow cards
and inkbota. That's what allowed the Pumas to come back
into the match. So Bill Blacks would have talked about it,
they would have addressed it, and they haven't fixed it.
Two yellow cards last week, three, this week five and
two weeks it's far too many. Your blocks were down
(13:35):
to thirteen men at one point in the first half.
The actually managed that period really well, managed to hold
the Pumas up and Boden Barrett made a couple of
really telling tackles, but I think what that did that
periods and then when Seva Reese went off, which killed
any hopes of a comeback after SUMMERSONI Takeyaho scored. When
(13:55):
you're down one man at zaps your energy and I
think that's why the All Blacks missed well, it's partly
why they missed so many tackles because they were having
to scramble because they were tired, they had to go
to their bench early. And but it is a major issue,
isn't it, Because you can't afford to be reduced one
(14:16):
man two men because the compounding issues, and you end
up living without the ball, you end up defending long
periods and then you're fatigued.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
So it's a vicious.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Cycle, it is.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And I think teams know that if you're playing the
All Blacks, you can probably bully or force them into
making some dummyras and numb mistakes, and that's a really
bad reputation for a team to be carrying in World rugby.
You know, they've become basically a team we can guarantee
that they won't play the full eighty minutes with fifteen players.
(14:49):
It seems like a fairly regular occurrence that a yellow
card will be shown, if not worse. And the worrying
thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be
any halting to it, that doesn't seem to be going cheap.
As we've conceded a whole bunch of yellow cards in
the last few tests. We better fix our discipline because
continually keeps happening, which to me speaks to a coaching issue,
(15:12):
but also a personnelity players on the field that these
lessons just aren't being learned.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Well, let me ask you this is it a leadership issue,
an on field leadership one as much as anything else,
because the messages not getting through. I think there was
a clear lack of composure. You think about All Blacks
teams of the past, and I know will rugby has
changed to a degree. The All Blacks aren't dominant force
they were, and test rugby is very tight among the
(15:39):
top six or eight teams. But we still have every
right to demand excellence from the all Blacks, and I
think all Blacks teams.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Are the past, you could count on them to come
back and come.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Over the top of teams that have that composure in
the last twenty minutes to pull off great comebacks, you know,
and when SUMMERSONI Takeyaho scored, I think there was about
ten twelve minutes to go. That should have been the
sign that the All Blacks were getting together.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
That they'd regained some composure.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Momentum, and instead, what they did is they botched the finish.
There was a couple of one maybe two lineouts where
they got pinged for balking. It was an early jump.
Little mistakes like that I think speak to a lack
of composure, perhaps a lack of leadership, and I think
that also stems into the discipline issue because there's no
(16:32):
composure there and the All Blacks are being rattled.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
They are being rattled and it doesn't seem like there's
leadership or a mentality out on the park at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Quite confusing.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
In the closing stages you might have heard it at
the ground, but Artie sa Viller felt like he was
doing more talking to the referee than Scott Barrett was
in the closing stages of the game, despite Barrett still
being out on the park and being the All Blacks captain,
didn't seem like there was as you said once they
scored that try and got back to closing the gap
to within six points, that the All Blacks, you know,
(17:07):
could just PLoP their way on the field. And you know,
in some games it was a certain this is going
back a decade or thereabouts, but a certain inevitability that
the All Blacks were going to score and find their
way out of tough spots. That inevitability is completely gone
now from the All Blacks, that if they find themselves
in tough spots, they're more likely to lose the game
(17:27):
than they are to wriggle their way out of any trouble.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And it's funny.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I was watching the game twenty fifteen World Cup, the
All Blacks first game against funnily enough, Argentina. They played
at Wimbley on that occasion, and the All Blacks did
some dumb shit during that game as well. We saw
Richie mccaor yellow carded for a foot trip in that game,
which is a very rare moment for him. Conrad Smith
(17:54):
went off as well in the first wall this is
being replayed on Sky a couple of weeks ago, and
the Puma's lead, but they just settle things down after
halftime and the All Blacks found their way just you know,
methodically finding their way around the park, didn't put themselves
under any more pressure once they didn't have to, and
took their opportunities smartly once they got into the closing stages.
(18:16):
We just don't see that from the All Blacks team
at the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And then it's that clinicalness, the ability to come over
top of teams and take your opportunities. How many times
have we heard Scott Robinson talk about a lack of
execution or not finishing chances. That's been a common theme
of his era that we haven't seen amended or come
to fruition. Boden Barretts missed three kicks which proved telling.
(18:44):
Two of them were from the sideline, but one penalty
that he would expect to throw over. He was replaced
of twenty five minutes remaining. I think it was Damien
McKenzie came on and slotted that sideline conversion up Takeyoho scored.
So a bit of a question mark around the goalkicking,
but that does stem into taking those chances, because if
(19:08):
kicks those goals, then maybe the All Blacks go on
and win that match.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, And I think the mental skills is an interesting
one as well. I know they've got Kerry Evans in
there at the moment, but Gilbert and Oke. Back when
he was in the team, it was talked about the
the redhead and the blue and if you're in the red,
not a good suppose to be and players would have
their different signals to basically get themselves out of that
move back into the blue. I think it was Kiaran
Reid looked at the furthest point of the stadium and
(19:34):
found where he could center himself and get back to
clear thinking. When other teams, you know, the Warriors and
other teams you know, do the whole breathing exercises, but
it seems like the All Blacks at this era live
in the reds more often than they do live in
the blue.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
To use that analogy.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Yeah, I think that's a fair point.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
That speaks to the discipline, the inability to sort of
come back, I mean to be fair.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Look, they did pull themselves out of.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
A hole the previous week in Caboda with two late
mal tries, but.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
The second half fades.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
The back end of matches were a major issue last
year and we're seeing common themes, common trends that the
All Blacks aren't able to fix week to week, So
they've got a lot to do in two weeks and
I think there'll be a lot of anxiousness, a lot
(20:32):
of nerves because we all know what's coming next. The
spring Boxs aren't at their best, but that Eden Park
record Scots will be desperate to preserve that because losing
to Argentina and Argentina been coaching the first All Black
team to do that, and for the players involved, that
(20:52):
will really cut them deep.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Well, we'll talk a bit about selections next week on
the podcast as we build into that game, but probably
a good opportunity to talk about bigger picture All Blacks
selections now. The team for Buenos AIDI is to me
felt very conservative. We touched on that a little bit
earlier on You touched on a little bit earlier in
terms of the personnel that he took abroad and then
decided not to play in Buenos Aires. Went with the
(21:18):
best team approach. The question I've got for you now,
Liam is that we perceived that as their best team,
but is it actually the All Blacks best team and
players basically they're tenured because there are reluctance to basically
change things up and move away from the conservative approach.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Well, I think there's big selection questions earlier.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I think we will see Wallace a tit and Tomighty
Williams go back into that starting team. Wallace made a
real impact off the bench. I wasn't overly impressed. I
think with Simon Parker on debut it's hard in a
team performance that was well below par where most people
(22:02):
in that team struggled. But there was a lot of
hype around Simon Parker wasn't there his size. Gil Blacks
had talked about him a lot. They wanted to get
him involved in July. I didn't think we saw a
huge impact from him, So I think Wallace goes back
into number eight. The Wings needs a serious look. You
(22:22):
mentioned Caleb Clark. I think the All Blacks need him back.
He's big, he's great in the air. I would like
to see Leary Carter get a crack Ammonia Narawa as well.
The balance of the midfield hasn't come to fruition. Billy
Proctor has struggled with a step up to Test rugby.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
I'm a big advocate for him after what he did
in Super rugby, but hasn't quite stepped up yet.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
And then half back is a major issue because Bill
Blacks are really missing Cam Rugard. Neat's compounded again without
Noah Hope from there, and then we don't know how
long Cortez Arsma is out for now, so we could
very well have a situation where Finlay Christi who a
big issue for me around his game is his box kicking.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
It's quite inaccurate and it.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Could very well have a situation where he's starting yet
Eden Park against the Springboks.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Could well do.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Kyle Preston can kick off both feet, so I'll be
looking at him. This has been floating around a little
bit and I justin Marshall suggested it and it was
very much tongue in cheek. But with the three half
backs that were originally selected now injured, we don't have
long quarters right is out injured for Is this where
you can pull a trigger and go Aaron Smith playing
(23:38):
in Japan, call him in until the All Blacks top
three half backs are back to full fitness. Now I'm
throwing flying a kite essentially here, But is this where
maybe the rules need to be bent a little bit
and go We have got an injury crisis. We know
that someone's played one hundred plus tests for our country.
Here do we give him a call? He hasn't played
rugby in a few months. But is he the kind
(23:59):
of player that you bring into the setup. You know,
given the lack of top quality options that are there
for the All.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Blacks, I don't doubt that Aaron Smith would come in
and do a great job.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
He's been there, he's done that. But personally I don't
like it.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I think you should work with what you have and
promote the next generation, expose them if it's a bit
of a sink or swim moment for some and you're
going to be getting those guys back. We don't know
whether camro Regard is going to be fit for the
spring box yet. No hope them is a bit longer term.
(24:35):
So look, there is depth at halfback. It's just as
you say, it's a bit of a crisis in one area.
But I don't think a stopgap measure is what the
All Blacks should be looking to do.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
But I think stop gap is the same with Finlay Christie.
He's not the long term answer for the All Blacks either,
So shouldn't you go right?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
We need to win these.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Two Test matches against South Africa. Who's the bloke that
has won the All Blacks a number of Test matches
through his career, Aaron Smith. I mean, I don't see
the issue with it. I don't think it sets It
sets a precedent in a little way, but I think
there's a needs must scenario here that going Aaron Smith,
Finlake Christy, who would you rather have in the mix?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
It's a no brainer, isn't it? Your dave Aaron Smith?
Every day of the week. But it does seem like
you're pushing panic buttons a week but by you know
the rules and changing things up to just to try
and sort things for such.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
A pace of time.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
So my personal I think you should reward those who
are playing in New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
But I totally see your points.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Look Aaron Smith, I think he would make a real
impact on this team, and if it was a choice
between him and Findlay Christie, I don't think you'd find
too many people that would pick Finly.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Just finally, before we move on and touch on some
rugby the rugby topics, Liam Boden Barrett as he saw
the guy at ten for you for the All Blacks
to lead them into this the South African Games.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well, it's an interesting question because I think Bowden has
performed well this year, but and he was good on defense,
but that wasn't his best performance, and he's got to
assume some responsibility for the struggles of their attack, not solely.
But look, I think if you asked Amen McKenzie, he'd
(26:26):
be pushing hard for a start. I can't see Scott
Robtson pulling that lever for the spring box.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
What about you, Well, I think he's the guy by
default at the moment. Boden. I look kicking yesterday. I
don't know whether you had an injury.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It was heavily strapped around his knees, Whether he was
carrying an injury, and maybe that was the reason for
the goal kicking.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I don't think it was.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I mean, we're picking knits here because I don't think
the All Blacks anyone stood out really from that performance.
So immediately attention Zero's and on the ten and the
impact they had in the game, But they didn't get
the front football that they needed necessarily. But I just
think they've kind of restricted themselves a little bit by
the options they've got there. I don't think they're going
to put Reuben Love in at Tea in a test
(27:08):
match like that. They went to McKenzie last year and
have gone away from him again, so Boden Barrick kind
of has the jersey by default at the moment. I mean,
I wouldn't be against them re selecting the squad for
South Africa and making some tweaks and maybe looking at
a Josh Jacob potentially.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I don't think he's a finished product, but I think
someone like him coming in putting pressure on mckenzy and
Barrett can only be a good thing, and Love as
well can only be a good thing in the environment
at the moment, and putting some heat on the incumbents
because it doesn't feel like there's enough heat coming on
those players. I mean, the selections are consistent, which is
a worrying thing. And this story about whole team now
(27:47):
and you look at the All Blacks and they've become
almost like the Black Caps to an extent of some
areas gone by, where they're almost playing by default and
playing on reputation, and maybe they need to get away
from that a little bit and bringing some new faces
just to put a little bit of heat on those
players there as the incumbents.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, there will certainly be a bit of heat in
that environment over the next two weeks when I can
imagine Scott Robertson will be very edgy that that Eden
Park records is something that's treasured throughout New Zealand rugby.
And we saw it last year when after the All
Blacks lost to the Pumas and Wellington and the following
(28:28):
week they played the Pumas at Eden Park and he
had planned to give guys like Billy Procter and others
game time and didn't went away from that plan, went
back to experience to preserve that Eden Park record. So
they'll be acutely aware of the need to preserve that
and they'll be acutely aware that the Springboks have probably
(28:51):
circled that match on the rugby calendar a long way.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
It will be their biggest match of the season two Well.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Indeed, we'll get into that more next week here on
Rugby Direct Quick Break. Come back with more here on
Rugby Director. Courtesy of our friends with Forkliff Solutions.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
This is Rugby Direct cast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Every try, try and sixty sec every tackle to tack,
the tackles get up again before after it's rugby direct, ladies.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
You're back with rugby to wrecked on how to get
into a few final four topic. Let's change direction and
the Black Ferns and Spain. The Black Fan's kicking off
the Women's Rugby World Cup with a comprehensive victory overnight,
getting the job done pretty comfortably against Spain. I think
from a Black fan's perspective, Liam they racked up fifty
(29:46):
four points. They can see that just the try at
the very very end of the game when they were
reduced to thirteen with a couple of injured players. So
I'm pretty content to say job done from the Black
Ferns in the opening game. Those injuries are worrying though,
Copo Olsen Baker looks to be the most concerning. You'd
expect probably her to play some of the Burger games
and start those bigger games can with a bench and
(30:08):
was in so I'd be worried about that. So other
than that though, good start from the Black Fans too.
Are the World Cup campaign?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, nice to tick that box and I guess shake
off a few nerves and run up a bit of
a score. Yeah, a couple of injury setbacks there, and
I saw a few tweets around Georgia Miller certainly announcing
herself to the global stage.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
You know, we've known what an athlete.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
She is on the seventh circuit and now coming into
the fifteens game. I think she only played forty minutes
and really lit up that match, So what a talent
she is.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Absolutely, and they've got Japan coming up next week. The
concern I'd have around this Woman's World Cup is a
lot of blowouts in the opening round and it feels
like World Rugby have jumped the gun and expanded this
far too quickly, from twelve teams to sixteen. Closest game
on the opening weekend was twenty four points. Now, I
know the men's World Cups had a few blowouts through
(31:03):
the years as well, but I didn't think it was
a great advertisement for the women game to have so
many blowouts on the opening weekend. As I said, closest
game twenty four points, which was France beating Italy.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Yeah, I guess you have blowouts in the men's game
as well, But yeah, I think you're probably right that
will rugby has gone too early the women's game doesn't
have the same depth in terms of you know, strong
competing nations. Even the Wallaroos, you know, put it ran
(31:37):
up a score on Samoa. So this tournament's always going
to build, isn't it as you get to the knockout rounds?
But I can understand the willingness to try and grow
the game. But blowouts doesn't necessarily draw and people, does it?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Topic number two Wallabies and the spring Box. We talked
a lot about, obviously the All Blacks in Argentina in
the first half of the podcast, but some context around
the spring Box and the Wallabies.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Good bounce back.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
We're not great probably from the spring box, but they
dead enough in muddy conditions in Cape Town to take
that box and get back to one win, one loss
in the championship.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Well, the Rugby Championships wide open, isn't it, Elliott? For
all four teams with one win? So it's gonna be
a fascinating tournaments.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
I agree. I wasn't impressed by the spring Box at all.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
They went back to type, recalling Andre Pollard, Damien Delende
and a couple of others as well. Cheers on Colby
and it very much was type a spring box. They
kicked a lot, they dominated the aerial battle Ebanez that
scored a late try.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
But I was very impressed by the Wallabies.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
I thought, you know, they're down on troops and a
few more injuries there. They lost their captain Harry Wilson
the previous week, but they were unlucky not to win
that game. James o'connomiss a couple of kicks. They had
one try ruled out in the first half. I think
it was Andrew Callaway made a tackle on a Pollard
and was ruled to have knocked the ball on and
(33:14):
late in the match I thought they should have been
given a yellow card. I think it was the spring
box fullback was holding on, clearly fussy, clearly holding on
and that was a blatant cynical yellow cards and that
was missed. So I thought they were really hard done
by on that occasion. So a really gutsy performance. You know,
(33:34):
the Wallaby's lost a lot of backs in that match,
Sue Lee among the others, so they were really stretched,
their depth tested and just it's.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Been a great tour for them and I think coming
out of.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
The British and Irish Lions series has really helped them
and that they could have easily won that match.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
They could have.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Would you expect Pollard to start at ten at eden
Park next Saturday.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Night, Yes, yes I would. I think he's their guy. Well,
for me, he's a sure. He's not the Pollards of
yester year, the guy that used to challenge the line
and break the line.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
He was a brilliant, strong running ten.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
But he's still the guy that will kick all your
kicks and he had one crossfield kick to set up
a try as well, so he's very reliable. He's experienced
and I think everyone will expect that Eden Park tests
to be tight and goalkicking could be massive and I
think the spring Ups will stick with Pollard for that match.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Topic number three in the Final four the New Zealand
Rugby Union that's about twenty years old. In New Zealand
Rugby and sky TV, I don't even called the sky
TV anymore. They're probably called sky in New Zealand, in
Zidar and sky Let's three phrase that have signed off
their five year broadcast. Steel as we know, pumps a
lot of money into the sport. Not a surprise that
(34:59):
they've linked up again.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
With Sky.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
There was a wee bit of chat around design potentially
coming in maybe some overseas players Amazon Prime you know,
were mentioned in dispatches very early on in the process.
But not a huge surprise that this deal has been resigned.
But there are a couple of things there. The TV
and Z part, with the all of the NPC being
broadcast on TVNZ plus some on TV and Z one
(35:23):
is more than maybe people expected. And they've also ring
finced five games as well that can be played outside
the Sky deal for the All Blacks for the Black
Ferns over the next few years. So leam, what's your
take on this contract being finally signed off.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I think first and foremost is the money. It's quite
a significant reduction. It's about seventy five to eighty million,
down from about one hundred million, so you know, less
money in the koffers, but that is expected to be
made up by the revenue sharing arrangement from the Nation's Championship,
(36:00):
or at least partly made up, so it shouldn't be
too much of a shortfall there. I was surprised with
the TVNZ element, just given Sky's recent acquisition of three
I thought if there was going to be a freeware
component that it might come via that avenue.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
But look, I think it's a win win.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I think it's a great result for the NPC to
reach more viewers and it's a great result for rugby
to be you know, not behind, not totally behind the paywall.
I think more exposure the better, and I think the
NPC is the right level of the game for that.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
What's your big takeaways? What about the the.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Up to five All Black tests that punters may have
to pay for outside of the Sky subscription.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, that's interesting to me and I wonder. I mean
this is these are the you know, the cut aways
Cup tests of twenty three before the World Cup between
the All Blacks and South Africa at Twickenham, it's the
Chicago Test presumably later in the year. It's other ones
that fall outside that nation's Cup framework, the Sansar framework
that basically party come to Indida and we will have
(37:11):
something there. So in theory you could have you know,
Crown Prince Muhammad bin Saman from Sadi Arabia going we
want the All Blacks and the spring Box to play
a test and read and it's going to be on
Netflix worldwide and here's the feet that would allow New
Zealand Rugby to sign up for that without worrying about
the Sky deal that they have in the back seat.
(37:32):
So for me, it's probably the way that world Sport's
going and getting some of these exclusive deals on platforms, etc.
I don't think it'll sit too well with the casual
fan that maybe has to shell out for an extra
subscription or an extra servers just so they can watch
the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, I think you might find that viewership is down
for those matches because some people won't pay. You'll have
a generation of people that aren't as technology savvy who
maybe don't have Amazon Prime or The Zone or or
whatever avenue that does come on. So it will be
(38:12):
interesting to see how that works. But from New Zealand
Rugby's perspective, you can understand them wanting some flexibility, wanting
an avenue to rake in some extra cash, and look,
I think on the whole it's a good arrangement. Sky
does a good job broadcasting and most New Zealanders who
(38:34):
watch Rugby have Sky and then you can watch provincial
rugby on TVNZ, so it's only a couple of games
that you might have to pay for over the course
of that deal.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And final topic in the final four. Didn't flag this
one with you, Liam, But the NPC, what on earth
is going on with Wellington? Belted by munterwork two thirty
eight twenty eight At one point it was thirty eight
fourteen from memory in that game or thirty eight, Yes,
it was thirty eight fourteen, one win from four games.
They've got Auckland this week, who pretty hapless themselves.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
What's going on to you? What's happening to your lines?
Speaker 5 (39:12):
He didn't. It's nicely not to flag that one with me.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Look, it's great that we put that the Jersey on
the line last year and not this year.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
So yes, not too sure what's what's.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Going on in the capital there, but yeah, some of
the bigger unions really strogging out there. I think that
Northland tipped up Auckland and the battle of the actual
the top of the North Island in general is not
going very well in the NPC, so I'm pretty happy
for man Or two. It's nice to see some of
the smaller unions they have their time in the sun.
(39:43):
I'm sure they really enjoyed getting one up on big brother.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, why Kattow taking the Ranfilly Shield as well and
really looking forward to wayto losing to Southland this weekend,
so unbeaten Canterbury can get a shield challenge against the
Stags the following weekend in Viicago.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That would work out quite nice.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
And it got quite well before the All Black scaming
Eden Park South and Canterbury four h five. Canterbury take
the shield, then the game at eden Park. Who says no, well.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
We'll Saine Harvey, good Fox and boy playing for the
Southland Stags making.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
His debut a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
My second or third favorite team, mishear Elliott, so I'd
be happy for them to take the shield and then
retain it against Canterbury.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
That'll go quite nicely.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Right enough for that, Thank you very much, Liam. We
appreciate your time as always, safe travels back home. Look
forward to seeing you next week as we build into
what is a big test and probably is only just
got bigger given the context of the last fortnight for
the All Blacks in South Africa.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
As indeed, can't wait.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Vamos We will see you next week.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Thanks to Last and Bars English for producing and thanks
to Forklift Solutions lifting you and your business to a
higher level.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
For more from news Talks B listen live on air
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Straight down the Middle of.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Drum Dickney Score, Try these.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Pocket inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Forkliffs Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith talk
Lead Rugby commentator and with me as always Liam Napier,
Rugby correspondent from the New Zealand Herald, checking in from
buea side Is Airport's Liam Welcome and hopefully you're you're
parked up and ready to get some shut eye on
(00:58):
the big verd back home.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Wella eliotto, that's how I'm gonna deem your name and
to be Spanish in your and yes, long fly home
three three flights via Santiago and Australia, but it will
be an even longer flight home for the All Blackswona
after that result.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, it will be top line thoughts. Let's get into it.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
What did you make of that being on the ground
and seeing that performance from the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Well, it was a very special night for Los Pumas
and Argentina. Their first win over the All Blacks in
Argentina in the eighteenth attempt. They'd had the draw in
nineteen eighty five. And I'll tell you what, they enjoyed
it because they were rocking at the stadium, the Pumas
that a victory lap afterwards, not a soul left.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
They were bouncing, singing, chanting.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
So they really enjoyed that result and they fully deserved it.
And look, I'm gotta be honest, I did not see
that result coming for the All Blacks.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
Did not see that performance coming.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
It wasn't as if Scott Robertson rested a bunch of players.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
I actually thought he was quite conservative.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I would have liked to seen Kyle Preston get to
go on the bench, maybe a Leroy Carter as well.
But he rolled out his best team, best available, only
made one starting change, and the performance didn't match that.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
Did it? It was?
Speaker 4 (02:24):
It was terrible, really, three yellow cards, but it just
goes so much wider than that. They all Becks missed
forty tackles, their composure at the death. They couldn't reel
the Pumas in their restarts they couldn't get that going
and they couldn't penetrate the Puma's defense, so some glaring
(02:45):
issues under the high ball as well, So there's a
lot to fix in the next two weeks before Crob
fronting the box.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
Eden Parker isn't there.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, there certainly is.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's hard to know really where to start in a
performance as bad as that. For me, I think it
was probably their worst performance, maybe since the twenty nineteen
World Cup semi final against England where they just didn't
fire a shot that night.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It felt similarly.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I know they had a couple of tries and they
were at one stage leading, but that was a performance
with virtually no positives whatsoever, and it's really hard to
know where to start. As I said in regards to that,
but just the probably all start the aerial contest and
the All Blacks is getting completely outdone. In the year
Will Jordan had one of his worst nights as an
All Black. They were targeted there, couldn't win anything aerially,
(03:28):
and just really seem to battle with not only the
aerial contest, but also restarts as an area that they
can increasingly coming under pressure and not able to get
clean ball off the back of it, but lost Pombers
basically unlocked the key to the fence by hammering the
All Blacks with the aerial contest, and the All Blacks
spilled the ball, couldn't take it cleanly on a number
(03:49):
of occasions.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It was really really poor.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
It was Elliott and this is not something new.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
We've talked about that the All Blacks issues under the
high ball. Certainly for all of this year and probably
going back to last year. The wingers, the selections there
have been under the.
Speaker 5 (04:08):
Spot light, haven't they.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
I spoke to Will Jordan after the game and he said, look,
we knew it was coming and we didn't deal with it.
So it's not as if Piel Blacks were blindsided. The
Pumas are a team that kick a lots, are very
good in the air, but there's it's an area where
there's been a rule change in recent years where you
can't protect the jumper, can you.
Speaker 5 (04:30):
There's no blocking and that makes it a bit of
a free for all.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So you've got loose Ford's wingers throwing arms in and
it makes a bit of a scrappy contest and the
All Blacks just didn't deal with that. There were times
also when it wasn't just the back three that kicks
went up in the middle of the field and players
were standing around looking at each other, and then you've
got a case of fin Lay Christie, one of the
smallest fokes on the field trying to leap up and
(04:56):
claim the high ball. So lack of communication, lack of accuracy,
and that's certainly an area where the spring Box targeted
the Wallabies, and looking at the tape of field Blacks
and the Boomers, they'll come for them hard again there
as well.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
We might get into some changes or possible personnel changes
a little bit later, but what are the immediate solutions
do you think to fixing this aerial problem? And it's
not as simple as just hammering aerial practice at training, surely,
but they need to find solutions pretty quick because as
you said that the spring Box are going to bring
exactly the same thing. And maybe it's in the coaching
setup where they just don't have that kind of personnel
(05:33):
at the moment to be able to teach that aerial contest.
You think of mcburn makes the kick who is part
of that all black set up for so long AFL background,
I mean, is there someone like him that could potentially
come in, you know, not mcburn specifically, but someone from
the AFL round where aerial kicking is so big and
pressure is such a big thing, that could maybe come in.
Or is it just a matter of hammering that high
(05:55):
ball that training over the next week or so.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
That's a good point you raised. Mcburn was very specialist
in that regard, wasn't he. I'm sure there's others they
could well tap into. To Wayne Smith, he's in an
advisory capacity for Scott Robertson to tap into it at
any time. He might have some thoughts on how to
improve that area. Look, i'd back a guy like Will
(06:19):
Jordan to bounce back from that performance, but I think
someone like a moaning Daraua is actually really good in
the air, very skillful. But it's probably not on just
the catcher alone. Bill Blicks need to find ways to
You can't protect the kicker as such, but you can
have people stationed around so when that ball does get
(06:42):
slapped back, that get that hunger, get that desire to
dive on it, to be first there to communicate well.
So I think there are there are fixes, but it's
an area that they desperately need to address, and for me,
I would have Ammani Naraua coming in for sever Reese.
I'm not sure if lee Roy Carter is necessarily the
answer because he's another small winger, isn't he So I
(07:04):
think he would potentially be targeted there. But I think
you're right that's is certainly in the spotlight.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Yeah, absolutely, Look Caleb Clark can't be too far away either.
Not sure if he were ready for South Africa as yet,
but he's another player that is strong area.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
We've seen it a lot of times for the Blues.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
He'll be a welcome addition back to that All Blacks
backline in terms of what he can do e really,
which probably flows into the wings and the area that
the All Blacks just weren't able to get a lot
out of, both distribution wise but also through meters gained
over the course of the game. Sever Reese and Rico
(07:42):
Yuwanne have been stationed there for a couple of tests
now and really didn't have a huge influence on the game.
Sevu was quite quiet. I think he had four carries
in the end. Rico Yowane was similarly quiet. He had
two carries on the night and obviously no line breaks
between either of them, because there's only one line break
(08:04):
from the All Blacks during the game. But I think
big picture, the wings are a real issue the All Blacks,
which flows into that aerial kicking problem as well.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
It does, and that's probably a reflection of the back
line attack in general, isn't it. Elliott's I think there's
As you mentioned, they're one line break, but the week
previous when the All Blacks got a bonus point winners
scored six tries, there was only two line brakes, So
the back line attack is quite.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
Clunky at the moment. They're not getting the best from that.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
I think at the weekend only had about forty percent
of the ball and what they did have was not
on a front foot platform.
Speaker 5 (08:40):
They had vastly less.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Post contact meters than the Pumas, who were led by
an inspirational performance from Pablo Matela. They got some real
pay from their big forwards punching through the middle of
the All Blacks. So yeah, I think attack in general,
but you want your wings going looking for work as well.
So those carry stats are quite alarming from from the
(09:03):
All Black swings, aren't they.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah they are, and you're right, post contact meters is staggering.
And these are the if you're not much of a
rugby stats, and now these are the meters basically, once
the first contact is initiated by the defense line, how
many more meters you get after that? And Argentina just
absolutely bossed the All Blacks when it came to that.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
In the game yesterday.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
The stats were quite astounding in the end, three hundred
and ninety two post contact meters to one hundred and
fifty four meters carried Oney one hundred and three versus
five hundred and thirty, which speaks to a whole back
line issue.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
The attack was clunky.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Didn't help that Cortez Ratzima went off in the eighteenth minute.
Finlay Christy came on and did a serviceable job. I thought,
probably in fact, one of the better All Blacks backs
on that night. Don't think he's a long term answer,
but it was just clunky, and the back line is
seemingly just. It feels like seven individuals playing to their
(09:59):
own tune, their own rhythm. At the moment, no one's leading,
and they're basically waiting for individual moments of brilliants for
something to happen. And that is not going to win
too many rugby matches.
Speaker 5 (10:13):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
And you're right, I think they are playing as individuals
and I think one of the problems is that it
looks to me like they're drifting quite a lot across
the field. They need somebody to straight They needs some
deception in terms of changes of angles and to punch
some holes, some real direct, strong carries. And yeah, if
(10:35):
you go back the previous week when they scored six tries,
I think what's one two?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
Three of those came off the mall.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
One was an individual piece of brilliance from Will Jordan,
so they only really created two tries. So this is
not a new issue. I think. To be fair to
the All Blacks back line, they didn't have that front
foot platform. They had limited ball against Argentina. But it
is a worry because their attack is not firing and
(11:03):
your Blacks are only really getting dominance in scoring points
when they go to their set peace strength that their
line out as a real weapon for them. Their scrum
is still functioning very well the mall, but the back
line is a big question mark.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, and you look at the carries for the All Blacks,
nine for artis a v seven each for Scott Barrett
and Will Jordan, five for Proctor and Taylor and Takyaho,
those numbers that are dominated by the Fords, which to
an extent you would expect largely, but there's not enough
carries their Publimitariy had eighteen for the Pumas and was
(11:42):
getting GameLine meters every time that he carried in what
I thought was a staggerantly good performance from the Pumas.
Another one to touch on is the discipline, and this
has been an issue for the All Blacks not only
for the last eighteen months, but for basically the last
dare I say a decade or thereabouts. Their discipline is
(12:04):
playing to the rules that they think should be in
the game, not the rules that actually are there. And
Will Jordan, you know, changing his line yesterday sevu Reese
with the charge down pass. I mean, I don't like
that rule particularly much, but it was clear and obvious
what he did there, and that's going to invite a
yellow card there every day of the week. Two PO
(12:25):
five watched on replay a couple of times now for
what was being deemed there. I think Pablo Materia passing
in a knockdown. I don't think Pablo was trying to
pass it all I think may have been slightly dutted there,
but regardless, that's two yellow cards that were fairly legal,
three that were dished out. Penalty account was poor against
the All Blacks as well, and it's an ongoing issue
(12:47):
that the All Blacks just can't get their discipline right.
I know our colleague Greg called them dumb yesterday. What's
your take on it.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
I think you can stomach penalties that effort plays, you know,
trying to get a turnover, maybe pushing it off the
line a bit quick, trying to make a tackle. But
it's the it's the unnecessary ones, brain explosions, and Bill Blacks.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
Are self destructing at times.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
They are self sabotaging by giving away these yellow cards
and inkbota. That's what allowed the Pumas to come back
into the match. So Bill Blacks would have talked about it,
they would have addressed it, and they haven't fixed it.
Two yellow cards last week, three, this week five and
two weeks it's far too many. Your blocks were down
(13:35):
to thirteen men at one point in the first half.
The actually managed that period really well, managed to hold
the Pumas up and Boden Barrett made a couple of
really telling tackles, but I think what that did that
periods and then when Seva Reese went off, which killed
any hopes of a comeback after SUMMERSONI Takeyaho scored. When
(13:55):
you're down one man at zaps your energy and I
think that's why the All Blacks missed well, it's partly
why they missed so many tackles because they were having
to scramble because they were tired, they had to go
to their bench early. And but it is a major issue,
isn't it, Because you can't afford to be reduced one
(14:16):
man two men because the compounding issues, and you end
up living without the ball, you end up defending long
periods and then you're fatigued.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
So it's a vicious.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Cycle, it is.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And I think teams know that if you're playing the
All Blacks, you can probably bully or force them into
making some dummyras and numb mistakes, and that's a really
bad reputation for a team to be carrying in World rugby.
You know, they've become basically a team we can guarantee
that they won't play the full eighty minutes with fifteen players.
(14:49):
It seems like a fairly regular occurrence that a yellow
card will be shown, if not worse. And the worrying
thing for me is that there doesn't seem to be
any halting to it, that doesn't seem to be going cheap.
As we've conceded a whole bunch of yellow cards in
the last few tests. We better fix our discipline because
continually keeps happening, which to me speaks to a coaching issue,
(15:12):
but also a personnelity players on the field that these
lessons just aren't being learned.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Well, let me ask you this is it a leadership issue,
an on field leadership one as much as anything else,
because the messages not getting through. I think there was
a clear lack of composure. You think about All Blacks
teams of the past, and I know will rugby has
changed to a degree. The All Blacks aren't dominant force
they were, and test rugby is very tight among the
(15:39):
top six or eight teams. But we still have every
right to demand excellence from the all Blacks, and I
think all Blacks teams.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
Are the past, you could count on them to come
back and come.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Over the top of teams that have that composure in
the last twenty minutes to pull off great comebacks, you know,
and when SUMMERSONI Takeyaho scored, I think there was about
ten twelve minutes to go. That should have been the
sign that the All Blacks were getting together.
Speaker 5 (16:09):
That they'd regained some composure.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Momentum, and instead, what they did is they botched the finish.
There was a couple of one maybe two lineouts where
they got pinged for balking. It was an early jump.
Little mistakes like that I think speak to a lack
of composure, perhaps a lack of leadership, and I think
that also stems into the discipline issue because there's no
(16:32):
composure there and the All Blacks are being rattled.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
They are being rattled and it doesn't seem like there's
leadership or a mentality out on the park at the moment.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Quite confusing.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
In the closing stages you might have heard it at
the ground, but Artie sa Viller felt like he was
doing more talking to the referee than Scott Barrett was
in the closing stages of the game, despite Barrett still
being out on the park and being the All Blacks captain,
didn't seem like there was as you said once they
scored that try and got back to closing the gap
to within six points, that the All Blacks, you know,
(17:07):
could just PLoP their way on the field. And you know,
in some games it was a certain this is going
back a decade or thereabouts, but a certain inevitability that
the All Blacks were going to score and find their
way out of tough spots. That inevitability is completely gone
now from the All Blacks, that if they find themselves
in tough spots, they're more likely to lose the game
(17:27):
than they are to wriggle their way out of any trouble.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And it's funny.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I was watching the game twenty fifteen World Cup, the
All Blacks first game against funnily enough, Argentina. They played
at Wimbley on that occasion, and the All Blacks did
some dumb shit during that game as well. We saw
Richie mccaor yellow carded for a foot trip in that game,
which is a very rare moment for him. Conrad Smith
(17:54):
went off as well in the first wall this is
being replayed on Sky a couple of weeks ago, and
the Puma's lead, but they just settle things down after
halftime and the All Blacks found their way just you know,
methodically finding their way around the park, didn't put themselves
under any more pressure once they didn't have to, and
took their opportunities smartly once they got into the closing stages.
(18:16):
We just don't see that from the All Blacks team
at the moment.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:20):
And then it's that clinicalness, the ability to come over
top of teams and take your opportunities. How many times
have we heard Scott Robinson talk about a lack of
execution or not finishing chances. That's been a common theme
of his era that we haven't seen amended or come
to fruition. Boden Barretts missed three kicks which proved telling.
(18:44):
Two of them were from the sideline, but one penalty
that he would expect to throw over. He was replaced
of twenty five minutes remaining. I think it was Damien
McKenzie came on and slotted that sideline conversion up Takeyoho scored.
So a bit of a question mark around the goalkicking,
but that does stem into taking those chances, because if
(19:08):
kicks those goals, then maybe the All Blacks go on
and win that match.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah, And I think the mental skills is an interesting
one as well. I know they've got Kerry Evans in
there at the moment, but Gilbert and Oke. Back when
he was in the team, it was talked about the
the redhead and the blue and if you're in the red,
not a good suppose to be and players would have
their different signals to basically get themselves out of that
move back into the blue. I think it was Kiaran
Reid looked at the furthest point of the stadium and
(19:34):
found where he could center himself and get back to
clear thinking. When other teams, you know, the Warriors and
other teams you know, do the whole breathing exercises, but
it seems like the All Blacks at this era live
in the reds more often than they do live in
the blue.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
To use that analogy.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Yeah, I think that's a fair point.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
That speaks to the discipline, the inability to sort of
come back, I mean to be fair.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
Look, they did pull themselves out of.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
A hole the previous week in Caboda with two late
mal tries, but.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
The second half fades.
Speaker 4 (20:11):
The back end of matches were a major issue last
year and we're seeing common themes, common trends that the
All Blacks aren't able to fix week to week, So
they've got a lot to do in two weeks and
I think there'll be a lot of anxiousness, a lot
(20:32):
of nerves because we all know what's coming next. The
spring Boxs aren't at their best, but that Eden Park
record Scots will be desperate to preserve that because losing
to Argentina and Argentina been coaching the first All Black
team to do that, and for the players involved, that
(20:52):
will really cut them deep.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Well, we'll talk a bit about selections next week on
the podcast as we build into that game, but probably
a good opportunity to talk about bigger picture All Blacks
selections now. The team for Buenos AIDI is to me
felt very conservative. We touched on that a little bit
earlier on You touched on a little bit earlier in
terms of the personnel that he took abroad and then
decided not to play in Buenos Aires. Went with the
(21:18):
best team approach. The question I've got for you now,
Liam is that we perceived that as their best team,
but is it actually the All Blacks best team and
players basically they're tenured because there are reluctance to basically
change things up and move away from the conservative approach.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Well, I think there's big selection questions earlier.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
I think we will see Wallace a tit and Tomighty
Williams go back into that starting team. Wallace made a
real impact off the bench. I wasn't overly impressed. I
think with Simon Parker on debut it's hard in a
team performance that was well below par where most people
(22:02):
in that team struggled. But there was a lot of
hype around Simon Parker wasn't there his size. Gil Blacks
had talked about him a lot. They wanted to get
him involved in July. I didn't think we saw a
huge impact from him, So I think Wallace goes back
into number eight. The Wings needs a serious look. You
(22:22):
mentioned Caleb Clark. I think the All Blacks need him back.
He's big, he's great in the air. I would like
to see Leary Carter get a crack Ammonia Narawa as well.
The balance of the midfield hasn't come to fruition. Billy
Proctor has struggled with a step up to Test rugby.
Speaker 5 (22:40):
I'm a big advocate for him after what he did
in Super rugby, but hasn't quite stepped up yet.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
And then half back is a major issue because Bill
Blacks are really missing Cam Rugard. Neat's compounded again without
Noah Hope from there, and then we don't know how
long Cortez Arsma is out for now, so we could
very well have a situation where Finlay Christi who a
big issue for me around his game is his box kicking.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
It's quite inaccurate and it.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Could very well have a situation where he's starting yet
Eden Park against the Springboks.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Could well do.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Kyle Preston can kick off both feet, so I'll be
looking at him. This has been floating around a little
bit and I justin Marshall suggested it and it was
very much tongue in cheek. But with the three half
backs that were originally selected now injured, we don't have
long quarters right is out injured for Is this where
you can pull a trigger and go Aaron Smith playing
(23:38):
in Japan, call him in until the All Blacks top
three half backs are back to full fitness. Now I'm
throwing flying a kite essentially here, But is this where
maybe the rules need to be bent a little bit
and go We have got an injury crisis. We know
that someone's played one hundred plus tests for our country.
Here do we give him a call? He hasn't played
rugby in a few months. But is he the kind
(23:59):
of player that you bring into the setup. You know,
given the lack of top quality options that are there
for the All.
Speaker 4 (24:06):
Blacks, I don't doubt that Aaron Smith would come in
and do a great job.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
He's been there, he's done that. But personally I don't
like it.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I think you should work with what you have and
promote the next generation, expose them if it's a bit
of a sink or swim moment for some and you're
going to be getting those guys back. We don't know
whether camro Regard is going to be fit for the
spring box yet. No hope them is a bit longer term.
(24:35):
So look, there is depth at halfback. It's just as
you say, it's a bit of a crisis in one area.
But I don't think a stopgap measure is what the
All Blacks should be looking to do.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
But I think stop gap is the same with Finlay Christie.
He's not the long term answer for the All Blacks either,
So shouldn't you go right?
Speaker 2 (24:53):
We need to win these.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Two Test matches against South Africa. Who's the bloke that
has won the All Blacks a number of Test matches
through his career, Aaron Smith. I mean, I don't see
the issue with it. I don't think it sets It
sets a precedent in a little way, but I think
there's a needs must scenario here that going Aaron Smith,
Finlake Christy, who would you rather have in the mix?
Speaker 4 (25:13):
It's a no brainer, isn't it? Your dave Aaron Smith?
Every day of the week. But it does seem like
you're pushing panic buttons a week but by you know
the rules and changing things up to just to try
and sort things for such.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
A pace of time.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
So my personal I think you should reward those who
are playing in New Zealand rugby.
Speaker 5 (25:36):
But I totally see your points.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Look Aaron Smith, I think he would make a real
impact on this team, and if it was a choice
between him and Findlay Christie, I don't think you'd find
too many people that would pick Finly.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Just finally, before we move on and touch on some
rugby the rugby topics, Liam Boden Barrett as he saw
the guy at ten for you for the All Blacks
to lead them into this the South African Games.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
Well, it's an interesting question because I think Bowden has
performed well this year, but and he was good on defense,
but that wasn't his best performance, and he's got to
assume some responsibility for the struggles of their attack, not solely.
But look, I think if you asked Amen McKenzie, he'd
(26:26):
be pushing hard for a start. I can't see Scott
Robtson pulling that lever for the spring box.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
What about you, Well, I think he's the guy by
default at the moment. Boden. I look kicking yesterday. I
don't know whether you had an injury.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It was heavily strapped around his knees, Whether he was
carrying an injury, and maybe that was the reason for
the goal kicking.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I don't think it was.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I mean, we're picking knits here because I don't think
the All Blacks anyone stood out really from that performance.
So immediately attention Zero's and on the ten and the
impact they had in the game, But they didn't get
the front football that they needed necessarily. But I just
think they've kind of restricted themselves a little bit by
the options they've got there. I don't think they're going
to put Reuben Love in at Tea in a test
(27:08):
match like that. They went to McKenzie last year and
have gone away from him again, so Boden Barrick kind
of has the jersey by default at the moment. I mean,
I wouldn't be against them re selecting the squad for
South Africa and making some tweaks and maybe looking at
a Josh Jacob potentially.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Now.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I don't think he's a finished product, but I think
someone like him coming in putting pressure on mckenzy and
Barrett can only be a good thing, and Love as
well can only be a good thing in the environment
at the moment, and putting some heat on the incumbents
because it doesn't feel like there's enough heat coming on
those players. I mean, the selections are consistent, which is
a worrying thing. And this story about whole team now
(27:47):
and you look at the All Blacks and they've become
almost like the Black Caps to an extent of some
areas gone by, where they're almost playing by default and
playing on reputation, and maybe they need to get away
from that a little bit and bringing some new faces
just to put a little bit of heat on those
players there as the incumbents.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, there will certainly be a bit of heat in
that environment over the next two weeks when I can
imagine Scott Robertson will be very edgy that that Eden
Park records is something that's treasured throughout New Zealand rugby.
And we saw it last year when after the All
Blacks lost to the Pumas and Wellington and the following
(28:28):
week they played the Pumas at Eden Park and he
had planned to give guys like Billy Procter and others
game time and didn't went away from that plan, went
back to experience to preserve that Eden Park record. So
they'll be acutely aware of the need to preserve that
and they'll be acutely aware that the Springboks have probably
(28:51):
circled that match on the rugby calendar a long way.
Speaker 5 (28:55):
It will be their biggest match of the season two Well.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Indeed, we'll get into that more next week here on
Rugby Direct Quick Break. Come back with more here on
Rugby Director. Courtesy of our friends with Forkliff Solutions.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
This is Rugby Direct cast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Every try, try and sixty sec every tackle to tack,
the tackles get up again before after it's rugby direct, ladies.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
You're back with rugby to wrecked on how to get
into a few final four topic. Let's change direction and
the Black Ferns and Spain. The Black Fan's kicking off
the Women's Rugby World Cup with a comprehensive victory overnight,
getting the job done pretty comfortably against Spain. I think
from a Black fan's perspective, Liam they racked up fifty
(29:46):
four points. They can see that just the try at
the very very end of the game when they were
reduced to thirteen with a couple of injured players. So
I'm pretty content to say job done from the Black
Ferns in the opening game. Those injuries are worrying though,
Copo Olsen Baker looks to be the most concerning. You'd
expect probably her to play some of the Burger games
and start those bigger games can with a bench and
(30:08):
was in so I'd be worried about that. So other
than that though, good start from the Black Fans too.
Are the World Cup campaign?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Yeah, nice to tick that box and I guess shake
off a few nerves and run up a bit of
a score. Yeah, a couple of injury setbacks there, and
I saw a few tweets around Georgia Miller certainly announcing
herself to the global stage.
Speaker 5 (30:31):
You know, we've known what an athlete.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
She is on the seventh circuit and now coming into
the fifteens game. I think she only played forty minutes
and really lit up that match, So what a talent
she is.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Absolutely, and they've got Japan coming up next week. The
concern I'd have around this Woman's World Cup is a
lot of blowouts in the opening round and it feels
like World Rugby have jumped the gun and expanded this
far too quickly, from twelve teams to sixteen. Closest game
on the opening weekend was twenty four points. Now, I
know the men's World Cups had a few blowouts through
(31:03):
the years as well, but I didn't think it was
a great advertisement for the women game to have so
many blowouts on the opening weekend. As I said, closest
game twenty four points, which was France beating Italy.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Yeah, I guess you have blowouts in the men's game
as well, But yeah, I think you're probably right that
will rugby has gone too early the women's game doesn't
have the same depth in terms of you know, strong
competing nations. Even the Wallaroos, you know, put it ran
(31:37):
up a score on Samoa. So this tournament's always going
to build, isn't it as you get to the knockout rounds?
But I can understand the willingness to try and grow
the game. But blowouts doesn't necessarily draw and people, does it?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Topic number two Wallabies and the spring Box. We talked
a lot about, obviously the All Blacks in Argentina in
the first half of the podcast, but some context around
the spring Box and the Wallabies.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Good bounce back.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
We're not great probably from the spring box, but they
dead enough in muddy conditions in Cape Town to take
that box and get back to one win, one loss
in the championship.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Well, the Rugby Championships wide open, isn't it, Elliott? For
all four teams with one win? So it's gonna be
a fascinating tournaments.
Speaker 5 (32:27):
I agree. I wasn't impressed by the spring Box at all.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
They went back to type, recalling Andre Pollard, Damien Delende
and a couple of others as well. Cheers on Colby
and it very much was type a spring box. They
kicked a lot, they dominated the aerial battle Ebanez that
scored a late try.
Speaker 5 (32:49):
But I was very impressed by the Wallabies.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
I thought, you know, they're down on troops and a
few more injuries there. They lost their captain Harry Wilson
the previous week, but they were unlucky not to win
that game. James o'connomiss a couple of kicks. They had
one try ruled out in the first half. I think
it was Andrew Callaway made a tackle on a Pollard
and was ruled to have knocked the ball on and
(33:14):
late in the match I thought they should have been
given a yellow card. I think it was the spring
box fullback was holding on, clearly fussy, clearly holding on
and that was a blatant cynical yellow cards and that
was missed. So I thought they were really hard done
by on that occasion. So a really gutsy performance. You know,
(33:34):
the Wallaby's lost a lot of backs in that match,
Sue Lee among the others, so they were really stretched,
their depth tested and just it's.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
Been a great tour for them and I think coming
out of.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
The British and Irish Lions series has really helped them
and that they could have easily won that match.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
They could have.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Would you expect Pollard to start at ten at eden
Park next Saturday.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Night, Yes, yes I would. I think he's their guy. Well,
for me, he's a sure. He's not the Pollards of
yester year, the guy that used to challenge the line
and break the line.
Speaker 5 (34:14):
He was a brilliant, strong running ten.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
But he's still the guy that will kick all your
kicks and he had one crossfield kick to set up
a try as well, so he's very reliable. He's experienced
and I think everyone will expect that Eden Park tests
to be tight and goalkicking could be massive and I
think the spring Ups will stick with Pollard for that match.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Topic number three in the Final four the New Zealand
Rugby Union that's about twenty years old. In New Zealand
Rugby and sky TV, I don't even called the sky
TV anymore. They're probably called sky in New Zealand, in
Zidar and sky Let's three phrase that have signed off
their five year broadcast. Steel as we know, pumps a
lot of money into the sport. Not a surprise that
(34:59):
they've linked up again.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
With Sky.
Speaker 3 (35:01):
There was a wee bit of chat around design potentially
coming in maybe some overseas players Amazon Prime you know,
were mentioned in dispatches very early on in the process.
But not a huge surprise that this deal has been resigned.
But there are a couple of things there. The TV
and Z part, with the all of the NPC being
broadcast on TVNZ plus some on TV and Z one
(35:23):
is more than maybe people expected. And they've also ring
finced five games as well that can be played outside
the Sky deal for the All Blacks for the Black
Ferns over the next few years. So leam, what's your
take on this contract being finally signed off.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
I think first and foremost is the money. It's quite
a significant reduction. It's about seventy five to eighty million,
down from about one hundred million, so you know, less
money in the koffers, but that is expected to be
made up by the revenue sharing arrangement from the Nation's Championship,
(36:00):
or at least partly made up, so it shouldn't be
too much of a shortfall there. I was surprised with
the TVNZ element, just given Sky's recent acquisition of three
I thought if there was going to be a freeware
component that it might come via that avenue.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
But look, I think it's a win win.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I think it's a great result for the NPC to
reach more viewers and it's a great result for rugby
to be you know, not behind, not totally behind the paywall.
I think more exposure the better, and I think the
NPC is the right level of the game for that.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
What's your big takeaways? What about the the.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
Up to five All Black tests that punters may have
to pay for outside of the Sky subscription.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
Yeah, that's interesting to me and I wonder. I mean
this is these are the you know, the cut aways
Cup tests of twenty three before the World Cup between
the All Blacks and South Africa at Twickenham, it's the
Chicago Test presumably later in the year. It's other ones
that fall outside that nation's Cup framework, the Sansar framework
that basically party come to Indida and we will have
(37:11):
something there. So in theory you could have you know,
Crown Prince Muhammad bin Saman from Sadi Arabia going we
want the All Blacks and the spring Box to play
a test and read and it's going to be on
Netflix worldwide and here's the feet that would allow New
Zealand Rugby to sign up for that without worrying about
the Sky deal that they have in the back seat.
(37:32):
So for me, it's probably the way that world Sport's
going and getting some of these exclusive deals on platforms, etc.
I don't think it'll sit too well with the casual
fan that maybe has to shell out for an extra
subscription or an extra servers just so they can watch
the All Blacks.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, I think you might find that viewership is down
for those matches because some people won't pay. You'll have
a generation of people that aren't as technology savvy who
maybe don't have Amazon Prime or The Zone or or
whatever avenue that does come on. So it will be
(38:12):
interesting to see how that works. But from New Zealand
Rugby's perspective, you can understand them wanting some flexibility, wanting
an avenue to rake in some extra cash, and look,
I think on the whole it's a good arrangement. Sky
does a good job broadcasting and most New Zealanders who
(38:34):
watch Rugby have Sky and then you can watch provincial
rugby on TVNZ, so it's only a couple of games
that you might have to pay for over the course
of that deal.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
And final topic in the final four. Didn't flag this
one with you, Liam, But the NPC, what on earth
is going on with Wellington? Belted by munterwork two thirty
eight twenty eight At one point it was thirty eight
fourteen from memory in that game or thirty eight, Yes,
it was thirty eight fourteen, one win from four games.
They've got Auckland this week, who pretty hapless themselves.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
What's going on to you? What's happening to your lines?
Speaker 5 (39:12):
He didn't. It's nicely not to flag that one with me.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Look, it's great that we put that the Jersey on
the line last year and not this year.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
So yes, not too sure what's what's.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Going on in the capital there, but yeah, some of
the bigger unions really strogging out there. I think that
Northland tipped up Auckland and the battle of the actual
the top of the North Island in general is not
going very well in the NPC, so I'm pretty happy
for man Or two. It's nice to see some of
the smaller unions they have their time in the sun.
(39:43):
I'm sure they really enjoyed getting one up on big brother.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, why Kattow taking the Ranfilly Shield as well and
really looking forward to wayto losing to Southland this weekend,
so unbeaten Canterbury can get a shield challenge against the
Stags the following weekend in Viicago.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
That would work out quite nice.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
And it got quite well before the All Black scaming
Eden Park South and Canterbury four h five. Canterbury take
the shield, then the game at eden Park. Who says no, well.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
We'll Saine Harvey, good Fox and boy playing for the
Southland Stags making.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
His debut a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
My second or third favorite team, mishear Elliott, so I'd
be happy for them to take the shield and then
retain it against Canterbury.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
That'll go quite nicely.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Right enough for that, Thank you very much, Liam. We
appreciate your time as always, safe travels back home. Look
forward to seeing you next week as we build into
what is a big test and probably is only just
got bigger given the context of the last fortnight for
the All Blacks in South Africa.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
As indeed, can't wait.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Vamos We will see you next week.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
Thanks to Last and Bars English for producing and thanks
to Forklift Solutions lifting you and your business to a
higher level.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
For more from news Talks B listen live on air
or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.
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