September 21, 2025 • 36 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Newstalk ZB's Canterbury rugby commentator Nick Bewley reflect on the Black Ferns being knocked out of the Women's World Cup in England at the hands of Canada and ask how it happened and whether the Black Ferns were prepared for what they were facing.
We also count down to the opening Bledisloe Cup test against the Wallabies as the All Blacks look to bounce back from the horror defeat to South Africa and we talk the Ranfurly Shield changing hands once again in the NPC.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
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Straight down the Middle.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Of Dry, Dicky Scase, Try these drive get inside the
game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Lea Labiat, powered
by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome in to Rugby to repowered by Excess Solutions, elevating
you and your business to a higher level. Rugby Director
Back for another week. Elliott Smith with me this week.
Nick Bewley, our voice of Crusaders and Canterbury Rugby, called
the Seal Challenge over the weekend. We will get into
that a bit later on, but Liam is somewhere in
Nashville or Las Vegas, and I suspect we'll end up
(00:59):
like the Hangover. We might get him back later in
the week for a quick podcast at the end, but
Net great to have you in the next this week.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thanks great to be here, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, certainly gave the Vocal Cords a real workout on
Saturday afternoonners Otago reefed the Ranfilly Shield away from Cannabury hands.
I know we'll get into that a bit later, but
I'm sure if Liam were here, he'd be reminding you
nice and early of that very fact that Canterbury no
longer holders.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
He would be, indeed, So let's put that to the
bat burner for the time being, and let's get into
the Black Ferns losing to Canada in the World Cup
semi finals on Saturday morning. Look, it's hard to determine
it as a surprise. I guess maybe from a New
Zealand psyche go in his favorites, because the Black Ferns
had been bolstered by some of those Sevens players, although
(01:46):
one key player and Georgia Miller didn't play. But as
you know, having seen it up closed, their record against
Canada in recent times had been patchy. They had not
one in their last two going into that game, and
Canada just blew them off the park, especially in that
first forty minutes. What did you make of that semi final, Nick.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, just on the I suppose the reaction first and
four most of the New Zealand public it was sort
of split in two, wasn't it. There was probably the
casual sporting fan who went, goodness me, like this is
an absolute shock.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
The Black Ferns don't lose to anyone.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But as you pointed out to anyone who's followed this
team closely over the last couple of years, followed Canada
the rise of England. I have had the pleasure of
calling the last two Black Ferns Canada games prior to
the semi final and Bristol. Both were here in christ Church,
a draw and a famous Canada winning in twenty twenty four,
and you could tell that Canada.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Were right up for it from the outset.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Congratulations to them because you know they've crowd funded their
way to a World Cup final. And as it's been
pointed out in some traditional media in the last forty
eight hours, if you were to just tune into that
game and go which ones the fully professional team and
which ones the semi professional amateur team, you probably would
have got the answer wrong. The way Canada played their
(03:02):
skill execution, their rock speed which leads the World Cup,
it was just rapid from the outset, and that ability
to offload in and around the ruck exposed frailties and
the Black Fans defense like they were tremendous and so
worthy of their victory. But this is a New Zealand
Rugby podcast and we need to unpack what went wrong
for the Black fans and just so many little areas
(03:24):
of their game really didn't They just didn't click. And
there were signs there in the quarterfinal against South Africa
when they started slow and those issues read their head again.
Ill discipline again, a high penalty count, inaccuracy, whether it
was Renee Holmes, a kickout on the fall early in
(03:46):
the game which invited Canada into an attacking opportunity, or
passes handling eras the defense was passive. It was just
for me anyway, as you mentioned earlier, it was unsurprising.
Perhaps the golf and the score line at halftime, the
fact that was twenty four points to seven a little surprising,
but the fact that Canada got the job done not
(04:07):
totally so prising for me, and a lot of questions
going through now into the next World Cup cycle.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, you picked You made a good point that I
want to pick up on the professionalism of the two.
This was a Canada team that played with structure, with pace,
with power. They seem to know what their game plan was,
where as the Black fans, I mean, they were blown
off the park in the first twenty twenty five minutes.
But Canada just played to a game plan which was
fast rugby, quick ruck speed, get the ball going, you know,
(04:36):
tie the Black Funds out run them ragged and it
worked a treat, whereas the Black Fans just looked like
they were playing with their heads lopped off at one point.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I think it was interesting.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Building into the semi final, Elliott listening to the likes
of assistant coach Tony Christy, and he talked about how
the Black Fans game has come so far since their
twenty twenty two World Cup triumph in terms of not
having to be over reliant on going around teams and
shift the ball whye that he said, you know, they're
so adaptable they can go over teams in terms of
their kicking game. In fact, he highlighted the fact into
(05:08):
this heading into the semi finals, the Black Fans had
kicked the ball more than anyone else and they could
go through teams, and we saw a little bit of
evidence so that with kyper Olson Baker had an extraordinary game,
but there was really no one else and it felt
like once Plan A didn't work, which is you know,
go lateral, get it out to a Portia Woodman Wickcliffe,
get it out to a Braxton, Sirence and McGee. Canada
(05:31):
knew what's coming. They shut that threat down and then
Plan B, Plan C, Plan D didn't work. And I
don't know if that's purely coaching or personnel, but as
you say that, this is a fully professional team who
have been building to this tournament for some time and
for them to not be able to adjust on the
(05:52):
hop when they knew what Canada's strengths were is their
third meeting in the last just over twelve months. Canada
played very similar to how they had in the last
two tests in christ Church.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
But it's one thing to know it's coming, it's another
thing to stop it. And they didn't know.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
They didn't and was really poor. Didn't get a first
half penalty. Now not saying that the refereeing was wrong,
they just put themselves in the wrong positions. They didn't
seem to learn from the way that the referee was
interpreting things. Final penalty count was ten six, but it
was zero to five at halftime against the Black Ferns
and that just allowed Canada to give them the right
areas the park and dominate that first half hour and
(06:30):
really set the tone for the game. There was no
coming back from twenty four to seven down at half time,
especially obviously scored again after the break, But the discipline
of the Black Ferns allowed Canada to play in the
right areas of the park and put that pressure on.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And that's a trend to elliott I saw in an
article might have been courtesy of our friends.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
At the post.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Eight of the last nine Tests, the Black Ferns have
had a higher penalty count than their opposition and they're
just not adjusting to the pictures that the referee want
to see.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And you look at the nature of the penalties. There was.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
A side entry at the down, there was a legal
entry at a line out, driving more not rolling away,
just you know, relatively simple simple things where you've just
got to show better pictures to the referee. And if
you don't have the ball and you don't have that territory,
you can't build momentum, you can't build pressure. And Canada
had all the running of the game and when they
(07:29):
when they had the ball, they shifted it wide. What
really impressed me most was how they're half back. Justine Peltier,
I think was awarded player of the match. She just
exploited all that you know she just had had the
ball on sort of on strings at one stage. Is
there in terms of how she was manipulating the Black
Fans defense and whether that was in and around the
(07:51):
ruck well being able to shift it wide Black Fans
quite narrow on defense, but it was because of the
work that Canada were doing in and around the ruck.
So yeah, as I say, a lot of questions as
we go forward now into the World Cup cycle this
and particularly for New Zealand Rugby, as we take a
sort of.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Wider lens on this.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
You know, seven days on from the All Blacks worst
loss in history against the Springboks in Wellington, for this
now to occur and the Black Ferns to lose in
a World Cup semi.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Final, that aura or that the brand, the New Zealand
Rugby brand has taken another pretty big body block.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, big head expert for David Kirkers. He got his
feet well under the desk now, but a lot to
work through around some of the pathways. And I guess
that leads us on to were the Black Ferns best
equipped for this tournament? We know how good England have
been in recent years. The Black Ferns obviously beating them.
That was the last loss they had in the twenty
twenty two World Cup final. But the Black Funds diet
(08:52):
you know in domestic rugby is all picky and they're
playing each other in a double round robin and a final.
It was a great comp this year. It was highly entertaining.
But is that doing enough to prepare these players for
test rugby in the styles that Canada, that France than
England bring well that stat you mentioned around some of
those defeats would tend to suggest not. But I don't
(09:13):
know that there's an easy fix. Australia at a super
W level aren't going to add that competitiveness. So from
a distance part of the world, the tyranny a distance
where New Zealand is and where the power lies in
the women's game at the moment, it's really hard from
a competitive level, at club or franchise level, whatever you
(09:33):
want to call it, to replicate that and get these
players prepared for test rugby.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Do you have any answers?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
No. I think New Zealand rugby would have landed on
an answer by now if there was a simple fix.
And I have heard some mention, for example about it
being a play gap rather than a pay gap for
the Black Ferns and the top of the pyramid for
women's rugby and New Zealand they played four tests going
into this World Cup, didn't have much of you know,
(10:02):
competitive games prior to the first half of the quarter
final against South Africa. It is a challenge and as
you say, a diet of just playing yourself in a
very similar style of rugby. And the fact that Australia
are nowhere near the mark in England, of France or
a Canada, it doesn't help the Black Fern's cause when
(10:23):
they enter these World Cup, these pinnacle tournaments. It has
been interesting over the last few days as well, Elliott
to note there is going to be some changes coming
with the w XV effectively binned after a couple of years,
So could we now see test series reintroduced. You know,
if I'm New Zealand Rugby going into the next World
(10:44):
Cup cycle, and there's probably a question around the coaching
mix as well for that next push for a next
World Cup. But you know, I'm on the phone to
the RFU in England, I'm on the phone to Rugby Canada, France,
even South Africa. They feel like they've made the most
ground outside of the top four to get as much
game time as possible. And then probably on the domestic scene,
(11:06):
who's to say we shouldn't send more more New Zealand
players up to play in the PVR, which is a
fully professional competition, rather than OPICK which is eight weeks.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
The PVR goes for eight months, and I.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Know Alana Bremner, Amy Rule, Georgia Ponsonby are staying on
in England to play in the PVR in the upcoming season,
and it'll be very interesting, is sort of, I suppose
a little case study to see their growth and development
over the next twelve months.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
It will be, and that may indeed be the answer
that more of those players go up there. I think
the changes to w XV are promising to get a
sort of global calendar more aligned, which would allow these
players to go up north and be able to play
in those competitions and you know, on a more regular basis.
I think can only be a good thing because I
think Opeke is stuck between a rock and a hard pace.
(11:55):
Bringing in super w isn't going to change it. It's
just going to basically extend the season. I don't know
that extending the season is the answer. It's about having
more competitiveness, more competitive games, different styles of rugby, and
they're simply not getting that at the moment one player.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So that's a question for you. Sorry, Elliott coaching.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
You know, I heard you and Liam speak last week
around the pressure that's on Scott Robertson as All Blacks
coach is And I don't know his contractual status, but
usually most of these tenures are are loomed in and
around a World Cup cycle. Alan Bunting with that two
from nine record in the World Cup cycle against England,
Canada and France and I think it's now about a
(12:35):
sixty six percent winning record in his tenure.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Is he under pressure? Could you see a scenario.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Heading into twenty twenty six where there's a new Black
fan's coach.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, I could.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I'm not sure of his contract status either, but I
think it's worthy of discussion and seeing whether he is
the best option to lead the side forward. You know,
renowned as a great culture coach, you know, great tickets
on him from the SEVENS program and what he was
able to do the year in terms of winning an
Olympic medal in the culture that he set up in
(13:07):
the elements of players, but fifteen's is a different ballgame
and it requires different strengths and different ways of going
about winning, and I'm not sure it's necessarily translated to
the fifteens level in terms of what Alan Bunting's been
able to do. I'm not sure there's a contender in
New Zealand waiting in the wings ready to go. Whitney
(13:31):
Hansen is obviously coach Martyr too for a time, Willie
Walker at the Blues. You know the possible contenders, I guess,
but I'm not sure that there's anyone banged down the door.
Do you look abroad? I mean John Mitchell. I'm not
sure how far he's contracted, but maybe he wants to
come home.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
At the end of the England World Cup cycle he
might well be a World Cup winning coach by the
end of the week. Perhaps there are other options out there,
So I think it's worthy of having on the table
and going what is the best way forward, especially as
you go into that new era of WXV Global Series
and then the next World Cup coming up in a
few years time in Australia as well. So I think
(14:10):
all options have to be on the table, you know,
around pathways, around coaching and everything else. Just finally, Nick
on the Black Ferns, Georgia Miller ruled out. I don't
know that she would have been the difference in terms
of turning over that result, but they needed someone at
the breakdown to put the pressure on, to be able
to bend a line and challenge things. I think she
(14:31):
was a big out for the Black Ferns, but I'm
not sure she would have made up the fifteen point
difference between the two sides. I think she's probably been
the Black Ferns best at this tournament, but not having
her was a big, big loss for the side.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It was, and I do agree that I don't think
it would have been the.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Difference, but it might have even things up a touch,
even just the threat of Georgia Miller on a field
and whether that would have then seen Canada's defense sort
of fan out a bit, because as we've seen throughout
the course of the World Cup how dangerous Georgia Miller
was in the wider channels and her working and around
the breakdown as well. So yeah, that was body blow
(15:09):
for the Black Ferns. And just while we're on the
topic of this, and I don't want to make a
massive deal out of it because I think it has
been sort of well gone over over the last few days.
But I think if the Black Ferns and their communications
team had their time again, I think the whole secrecy
around her injury and her absence for that semi final
(15:31):
would have been dealt with differently, especially in a time
where you know, there has been criticism, for example, of
traditional media and it's coverage of the Black Ferns. I
think it's been rather thorough particularly over the last week,
and I feel like the Black Ferns just.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They can't have it both ways. Where we're you know,
we've covered them.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Plenty in terms in a positive light because they have
been such great ambassadors and champions for the.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Sport and for New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
To then kind of turn a corner and hide behind
secrecy or privacy, it just didn't really sit that well
with me.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah, look for Fartie Soav was ruled out of a
World Cup semi final in the men's you know, World Cup.
We want to know why and I think we would
be expected to to know why why he was ruled out.
So in terms of you know, same sature replier say
number on the back. I think there is an app
comparison to be made there with Georgia Miller. So that
was a shame, and I think I think the coverage
(16:28):
has been by and large pretty good. I think the
problem is when they compare it to the All Blacks,
and the All Blacks are always going to get outsized coverage,
and you know, every sport in New Zealand would love
to have the coverage of the All Blacks, and comparing
yourself to that, it's like its own round. It's like
its own sphere, the All Blacks because of the country's
interest levels in it. You know, it's the same round
as essentially a politics or a business or whatever it
(16:49):
might be. The All Black stands alone sort of outside
of sports. So while I get there were complaints and
people saying about the you know, the coverage, I don't
think comparing it to the All Blacks is necessarily the
right way to look at those two things. I think
there are you know, it's an Apple and Oranges scenario
despite them playing the same sport, which segways well into
the All Blacks. The sweet Kent first and foremost, what
(17:10):
was your reaction to that lost against South Africa last week?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Goodness man, how long have we got? In some ways
the inconsistency of the All blackses were seen so far
in the Rugby Championship. I did see a dip coming
after such getting up for such a high Eden park
Ardisavez hundreds. You know, I didn't see a forty three
to ten demolition job, particularly with the selections that Razi
(17:38):
Erasthmus made for the spring box, leaning to a lot
of youth. But just some of the areas of concern
for the All Blacks were, you know, really shone through
in terms of the set piece, the scrum going backwards again,
the line out was the shambles without Cody Taylor and
some sort of similar themes clarity on attack as well,
(18:02):
it just felt a little bit lateral. They fell in
love with the chip and chase late as they were
chasing the game, and there's a lot for Scott Robertson
and as Mary men to examine to rectify for a
Wallaby team or bit coming off the loss themselves are
playing some pretty good footing and it shapes up as
(18:24):
a fascinating week leading into Saturday's letters.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Lo at eating part.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
It does.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It does All Blacks have to be better, and I'm
sure they will have done a thorough review into what
went wrong in the Capital, but it's going to be
interesting to see what changes they make. Whether they go
that was one really bad night and we'll stick with
the side there apart from maybe a tweak hit half
back and a couple of other changes here and there,
(18:50):
or whether they go right, this is the time we're
not getting enough out of our core players that we
have deemed as our first choice side.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Is time to completely change things up.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
It's going to be interesting to see which way Scott
Robinson goes, because it feels like this week is, you know,
a big fork in the road for his All Black tenure.
You know that there's obviously the Eden Park record to
protect again, but it feels like there needs to be
a statement of sorts and while they've beating the Wildbies
and beating the Well in recent times, it feels like,
you know, one step forward, two steps back for the
(19:21):
All Blacks over recent times. So do you see changes
wholesale changes to this All Black side this week?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
It's hard to say because I really can't get in
the head of Scott Robinson as a selector in terms
of it just seems like a very individualistic approach or
philosophy to his selections as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
What he wants to see.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
And I'm probably more referring to players coming back from
injury and going via the NPC some have.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You know, Caleb Clark, for examples, now played three games
in a.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Row for Auckland and then we hear through the All
Blacks camp that he needs more time under his bout
within the All Blacks environment to get more reps in
and be ready for rugbyes, so that those two don't
quite align for me. Then you've got guys like so
Mighty Williams Wallace Atiti to ral Lomax and they don't
have to play NPC at all, they slot straight back in.
(20:15):
So just on that topic, I think cam Royguard is
so influential and important to the All Black side that
thirty minutes for Counties Monaco on the weekend will be enough.
And I expect them to start this weekend and I
think that'll make a massive difference. And that's not a
slight on Finlay Christy, but that's just the class that
cam Royguard offers his distribution is running threat I think
(20:39):
will add plenty to this All Blacks team.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
But I'm more leaning with you, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
What I'd like to see is probably different to what
I am expecting, but I think it is time for
some pretty significant changes. I'd like to see a revision
back to Twuopo vi E at blindside flanker, and I
think that was an effective and pretty bold selection at
the beginning of the Test season and worked a good effect.
(21:05):
I let's see Fabian Holland back starting at locke and
in terms of lock cover, I've seen plenty of them
up close. I'd like to see Sam Dowry there on
the bench for Saturday's Test against the Wallabies. They're just
a few changes top of mine. Then further out wide,
Caleb Clark has to start for mine. Whether that's on
the left wing, it probably will be because we know
(21:27):
he's sort of more exclusive left winger.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Then what do you do at right wing at fullback?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I don't think what happened with Will Jordan on the
right wing and Damian McKenzie effectively worked in that Wellington
Test against the Springboks. I'd probably go back to Jordan
at fullback and Leroy Carter. I don't think did anything
wrong really in his test debut, although it will be
remembered for all the wrong reasons. I'd shift him to
(21:52):
the right, and then it's the less defying Anooku selection
as well. There's quite a bit to unpack you personally,
that these are all these sort of adjustments that I'd make,
because I feel like after a humbling like that at
the Cake Tin at warrants a fork in the road
moment where you go, you know what, we need to
make some changes rather than in the past what we
(22:15):
have seen is loyalty and conservatism and here go boys,
You've earned the right to redeem yourselves.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I think time has passed for that.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I think so too, and I think Scott Robinson's got
to use it as a license. You know, what's done
is done in terms of South Africa and Wellington, but
this is essentially your license to clean slate this team.
Whether he sees it the same way, I'm not sure,
but I'm with you, Roy Guard at nine. The big
question is what you do at ten and whether you
know they've got enough out of Boat and Barrett in Wellington,
(22:45):
whether Damien McKinsey maybe gets a look. He started that
one test in Hamilton against France. This year, they've gone
away from McKinsey, but do they go back there? You know,
reubend Love is in the wings. I would find it
highly unlikely that he'd get to go this week. I
think leicstifying a look at center is worthy of a
(23:06):
low billy proctor, you know, respect that they've given him
every chance this year to build and make that thirteen
Jersey his own, but it simply hasn't happened. So I'm
in greens. With those backline changes, Clark has to come in.
I'd move part of the right wing. I'd have will
Jordan at fullback. I'd have fining a Nookh at center
and Jordi Barrett at twelve and probably retain Bowden Barrett.
(23:28):
But you know what, I watched that Tartanaki Hawk's Bay
game on the weekend, and I know it's quote unquote
only in PC, but what Josh Jacob was doing around
driving his team around the park that game. Driver, but
ability to take on the line, That's what I want
out of an All Blacks ten and I'm just not
sure that their game plan is getting that at the moment.
(23:49):
We've got a lot of you know, bon and Barrett's
getting the ball sort of second receiver with the props
being used as first receivers and then coming in from
a standing start. I think that needs to look at
this weekend as well. So Scott Hanson obviously has his
hands on the game plan. I think it would have
been a probably sleepless few nights are around what we
(24:10):
expect from the All Blacks because simply there has to
be changes because they can't afford this Bletterslow Cup to
go to perth Alive.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't think. No, you're totally right, and.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
You know there's so much riding on this from the
Bledderslow cupory history perspective, Eden Park perspective that they can
ill afford to to get it wrong. So look at
it will be fascinate and come Thursday how they go
selection wise, just on the tens, I don't know if,
as you say, you brought Josh Jacob up there. I
don't think you see much stylistical difference these days between
(24:43):
a boat and Barrett and a Damien Mackenzie. Perhaps Damien
offers a little bit more of a running threat, but
they're both players that like to take on the line
they'd like to kicking over the top and yeah, so
I think it's much of a muchness really which way
they go. It's more about what they could do upfront
and what they could potentially do outside and whether that's
(25:05):
going to make a difference.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Some of that kicking in Wellington appalling. You know there
was kicking over the top when there was space out wide,
there was Ardie Savvier's chip to no one. The kicking
strategy needs a real look at from the All Blacks.
If they're going to win this game, what do you
expect the Wilbies. You know they're gonna come across the
tasm with no fear. That won at Alis Park this year. Yes,
(25:29):
they lost their most recent outing, but it feels like
the Wallabies have sort of turned a corner and even
if they lose their last outing, they sort of reset
and go right, what can we do this week and
come in with a new strategy, new mindset. And I
don't think going to Eden Park, even though they haven't
lost there since nineteen eighty six, will bother them one iota.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
No, I don't think they carry any mental baggage.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I have heard some suggestions to the contrary another broadcast,
But I think they come in their clean slate under
Joe Schmidt towards the back end of his tenure, leaving
after the Rugby Championship with a great deal of confidence
that there is a All Blacks team there that are
(26:14):
far from their best and can be exposed if you
pressure them in the right ways. It will be interesting
to see how they play, because I don't think they'll
play any anywhere like the Springboks do in terms of
their their aerial kicking game. Who the Wallabies commentator Sew
Maloney on with Jason Pine and Weekend Sports Newstalks the
(26:35):
b yesterday and sort of saying I don't think just
because South Africa offered you a blueprint of what you
can do to beat the All Blacks so convincingly that
you try and cut and paste that you have to
have the personnel required, So I don't think the kicking
game will be quite as prolific.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
However, you look at.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Some of their outside backs if they can get them
good front football and Max Jorgensen and Joseph Suerley, even
Andrew Callaway at the back. It as a shame Tom
Ryder is injured, but they've got themselves a team, and
I think they come here with confidence, with a point
to prove, and with some coaching acumen and Joe Schmidt
and Mike Kron as well in terms of they'll know
(27:15):
exactly what it's like having been in that all back environment,
knowing how they'll be talking and preparing for this week
to throw some pictures at the All Blacks and make
them potentially uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I feel like the start is going to be important.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
But as we've seen the Wallabies, I know they lost
last Sex, you're a second half team and if they
can even just stay with an arm's reach in the
first forty, we've seen how good they are coming home.
Whereas the All Blacks, I know they've maybe sorted out
a few things from minutes sixty one to eighty, but
as you and Liam have pointed out at nauseum the
(27:50):
twenty minutes after after half time, sorry, it's just turned
into a bit of a basket case. So yeah, look,
I'm not declaring the Wallabies favorites or anything like that,
but I think that we're in for a real ding
dong battle, which you know, I think this Rugby Championship
has offered for the first four rounds is outstanding from
(28:14):
just a pure excitement perspective that we've got this jeopardy
so often and Bledsoe Cup Test. It's like, right here
we go, we know the all blacks will be relatively comfortable.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
There's none of that this week, certainly, isn't it right?
Quick break, come back talk Randfully Shield after this on
Rugby Directs.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Every try try ten sixty second, every tackle tackle get
up again.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Afore it's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by our good friends
at Access Solutions. Will Nick you called this game on
the weekend thirty eight thirty six. O Tago take the
ran Furley Shield over Canterbury, whose defense did not last
long at all. It's gone around. I think this is
the fifth time it's had this season, the Ranfurly Shield.
But this was a remarkable come back. I was watching
(29:09):
it in our newsroom in thirty six twenty one. You
sort of consigned the game to the scrap peep. You
start writing up your stories for the bulletin and then
Otago just find something down to fourteen men and Canterbury
couldn't repel what they bought in that last or even
just a sort of twelve minute burst. They just came
out and put Canterbury to the sword and the Red
(29:31):
and Blacks had no response.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
I think Canterbury were but like you, Elliott, they already
started reading their own match report that this was a
convincing defense of the shield with about twenty odd minutes
to go. Yeah, it was extraordinary the shift and momentum,
as you say, thirty six twenty one. But not only that,
losing will tucker Otago to a yellow card and you thought, I,
you know, one more try and this will this will
(29:55):
break Otago's resilience and you know, beyond what that would
have been, what a twenty point comeback from there. But
goodness me, they've got some talent down there. Lucas Casey.
I hadn't heard much about Lucas Casey prior to my
preparation for this game, and then read via the Otago
(30:16):
Daily Times he was their club player of the year,
the open side flanker. He scored thirteen tries in the
club season and he is a tremendous athlete and just
something out of nothing individual brilliance on both occasions. The
first try was very good to put a big fend
on shay Fee Huckey I believe it was and go
around to score. But the second is just one of
(30:38):
the individual tries off the season. The footwork, he was
like an outside back and he made I think it
was James White in the backfield, their last man standing
in defense, looked rather silly with the footwork. But not
only him, I thought Dylan Pledger. A lot has been
made about this young halfback, his distribution, his decision making.
He's not only a player for the future, he's a
(30:58):
player for now, like he is a serious talent. And
Cameron Miller, I know he's been around a week while,
but I thought we were talking earlier about Josh Jacob
and Ten's who just can troll the tempo, make the
right decisions and can goal kick as well. That was
a big kick to put Otago ahead thirty eight thirty six.
So congratulations to the men from the Deep South, not
(31:21):
quite the deep Deep South, but from Dunedin and the surrounds,
because they thoroughly deserve that.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And now the Ramfilly Shield goes again. How many weeks
in a row.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
North Harbor, my beloved Harbor's got a challenge on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, this must be a record for most consecutive challenges.
It's been ridiculous over the last what's six seven weeks.
It feels like it's just been non stop. Usually you
get a a week to celebrate depending on how the
draw falls. That's quite handy, you know, you go away,
have a away game and maybe lose that by twenty
points and then come back and the celebrations are done.
You can focus on your shield defense. But it has
(31:57):
just been relentless. The Ramfilly Shield and the way it's
moved around the season and the number of challenges.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, I've loved it personally.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
I don't think it's taken the gloss off a Ranfilly
shield rain all. And just from a historic standpoint, the
fact that it's gone through five sets of hands Tartanaki, Waikato, Southland,
Canterbury and Otago hadn't been done since nineteen fifty, which
really sort of puts it in perspective. I know there
was a period there in the eighties where I think
it only changed hands once between Auckland and Canterbury, but.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
There's still a mystique, a magic.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Tasman went very close the week before.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
It's really hard to defend because each team once they
see they've got a challenge, particularly when it's an unexpected
one that's come out of nowhere, that wasn't there at
the beginning when the schedule first came out, you can
just see it creates a real lift to be part
of something special. And that's what has been the case
for these these respective four teams who we've seen it
(32:56):
change hands so far this season. Who knows we could
have the fifth changing of hands this week. And then
I just had a weird glance at the draw. It's unlikely,
let's be honest, there o in eight Harbor, but one
can dream. But if Harbor win it, then they've got
to put it on the line the final week of
the round robin against Southland. So the Mirry Go Round,
the Ranfilly Shield Merry Go Round is alive and well
(33:18):
this season that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
What chance do you give North Harbor? I mean and
h I thought they played pretty well for periods against
Northland in that game over the weekend, but weren't good
enough to warn considered very late penalty to lose that game.
But do you give them a shot of going down
to Dunedin. You know, maybe you know there's been a
week on the Gold mid LALs from a target perspective,
(33:41):
maybe Harbor can hid down there fresh and catch them
on the hop.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Never say never, however, it's pretty hard to bet against Otago,
isn't it. And I heard Mark Brown, their head coach,
speaking with Piney again yesterday on Sunday, and you know
he mentioned not only is it important in terms of
putting the ram for the shield away from the summer,
it's Liam Coltman's one hundredth game Targo. So I don't
(34:07):
think they're going to be acking any inspiration. So look,
I think it would be quite the miracle if North
Harbor get it done. But just a word on Harbor,
and I know, you know, the competitiveness of the NPC
has been very impressive actually this season and the fact
that Northland, you know, eightieth minute penalty, they're now five
(34:29):
wins from eight after that went over Harbor. But there
eighth on the ladder like this, you know that top
eight everyone sort of beating everyone as good as Canterbury
have been. I think it's still a pretty wide open competition.
But just on Harbor, I do admire teams or provinces
that really back their club program. You know they haven't
imported far and beyond. But this is the reality of
(34:53):
that decision in its infancy, you know, when you've got
to go all in now for at least a few
years to give these guys out of the club program
some regular time in MPC, because if you just sort
of chop and change or important and then go club
or not quite get the balance right, you're not going
to make the ground. But yeah, fingers crossed for all
(35:14):
those the people from Warkworth to Tackapona that we might
have something special.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I'm sure there'll be a few flying down to try
and get that shield home. Nick Buley, thank you so
much for your time on Rugby Direct this week. Appreciate
it as always and look forward to catching up again soon.
And you're joining us on Rugby Director just quickly.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I know Liam would have wanted to mention the Wellington
Southland score.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Any thoughts there, Well, I'll talk about Southland because they're
back con seeded fifty plus. In their last three artings
since winning the Shield they have been counties, so Canterbury
first Counties and then Wellington on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's taybollical. It's some hangover, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah, it really is, it really is. But no, congratulations
to Wellington. Good to see them in the top eight
so I think the eighth now, so it's great for them.
I appreciate it. Leam might join us back into the
week once he arrives back from his trop travels and
gets back on the ground here in Auckland. But thank
you as always Bules for joining us on RUGB Direct
card by Access Solutions elevating you and your business to
(36:20):
a higher level.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
For more from news Talks ed B, listen live on
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Straight down the Middle.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Of Dry, Dicky Scase, Try these drive get inside the
game from every angle.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
It's Rugby Direct with Elliot Smith and Lea Labiat, powered
by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Welcome in to Rugby to repowered by Excess Solutions, elevating
you and your business to a higher level. Rugby Director
Back for another week. Elliott Smith with me this week.
Nick Bewley, our voice of Crusaders and Canterbury Rugby, called
the Seal Challenge over the weekend. We will get into
that a bit later on, but Liam is somewhere in
Nashville or Las Vegas, and I suspect we'll end up
(00:59):
like the Hangover. We might get him back later in
the week for a quick podcast at the end, but
Net great to have you in the next this week.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Thanks great to be here, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Yes, certainly gave the Vocal Cords a real workout on
Saturday afternoonners Otago reefed the Ranfilly Shield away from Cannabury hands.
I know we'll get into that a bit later, but
I'm sure if Liam were here, he'd be reminding you
nice and early of that very fact that Canterbury no
longer holders.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
He would be, indeed, So let's put that to the
bat burner for the time being, and let's get into
the Black Ferns losing to Canada in the World Cup
semi finals on Saturday morning. Look, it's hard to determine
it as a surprise. I guess maybe from a New
Zealand psyche go in his favorites, because the Black Ferns
had been bolstered by some of those Sevens players, although
(01:46):
one key player and Georgia Miller didn't play. But as
you know, having seen it up closed, their record against
Canada in recent times had been patchy. They had not
one in their last two going into that game, and
Canada just blew them off the park, especially in that
first forty minutes. What did you make of that semi final, Nick.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Yeah, just on the I suppose the reaction first and
four most of the New Zealand public it was sort
of split in two, wasn't it. There was probably the
casual sporting fan who went, goodness me, like this is
an absolute shock.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
The Black Ferns don't lose to anyone.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But as you pointed out to anyone who's followed this
team closely over the last couple of years, followed Canada
the rise of England. I have had the pleasure of
calling the last two Black Ferns Canada games prior to
the semi final and Bristol. Both were here in christ Church,
a draw and a famous Canada winning in twenty twenty four,
and you could tell that Canada.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Were right up for it from the outset.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Congratulations to them because you know they've crowd funded their
way to a World Cup final. And as it's been
pointed out in some traditional media in the last forty
eight hours, if you were to just tune into that
game and go which ones the fully professional team and
which ones the semi professional amateur team, you probably would
have got the answer wrong. The way Canada played their
(03:02):
skill execution, their rock speed which leads the World Cup,
it was just rapid from the outset, and that ability
to offload in and around the ruck exposed frailties and
the Black Fans defense like they were tremendous and so
worthy of their victory. But this is a New Zealand
Rugby podcast and we need to unpack what went wrong
for the Black fans and just so many little areas
(03:24):
of their game really didn't They just didn't click. And
there were signs there in the quarterfinal against South Africa
when they started slow and those issues read their head again.
Ill discipline again, a high penalty count, inaccuracy, whether it
was Renee Holmes, a kickout on the fall early in
(03:46):
the game which invited Canada into an attacking opportunity, or
passes handling eras the defense was passive. It was just
for me anyway, as you mentioned earlier, it was unsurprising.
Perhaps the golf and the score line at halftime, the
fact that was twenty four points to seven a little surprising,
but the fact that Canada got the job done not
(04:07):
totally so prising for me, and a lot of questions
going through now into the next World Cup cycle.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Yeah, you picked You made a good point that I
want to pick up on the professionalism of the two.
This was a Canada team that played with structure, with pace,
with power. They seem to know what their game plan was,
where as the Black fans, I mean, they were blown
off the park in the first twenty twenty five minutes.
But Canada just played to a game plan which was
fast rugby, quick ruck speed, get the ball going, you know,
(04:36):
tie the Black Funds out run them ragged and it
worked a treat, whereas the Black Fans just looked like
they were playing with their heads lopped off at one point.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
And I think it was interesting.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Building into the semi final, Elliott listening to the likes
of assistant coach Tony Christy, and he talked about how
the Black Fans game has come so far since their
twenty twenty two World Cup triumph in terms of not
having to be over reliant on going around teams and
shift the ball whye that he said, you know, they're
so adaptable they can go over teams in terms of
their kicking game. In fact, he highlighted the fact into
(05:08):
this heading into the semi finals, the Black Fans had
kicked the ball more than anyone else and they could
go through teams, and we saw a little bit of
evidence so that with kyper Olson Baker had an extraordinary game,
but there was really no one else and it felt
like once Plan A didn't work, which is you know,
go lateral, get it out to a Portia Woodman Wickcliffe,
get it out to a Braxton, Sirence and McGee. Canada
(05:31):
knew what's coming. They shut that threat down and then
Plan B, Plan C, Plan D didn't work. And I
don't know if that's purely coaching or personnel, but as
you say that, this is a fully professional team who
have been building to this tournament for some time and
for them to not be able to adjust on the
(05:52):
hop when they knew what Canada's strengths were is their
third meeting in the last just over twelve months. Canada
played very similar to how they had in the last
two tests in christ Church.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
But it's one thing to know it's coming, it's another
thing to stop it. And they didn't know.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
They didn't and was really poor. Didn't get a first
half penalty. Now not saying that the refereeing was wrong,
they just put themselves in the wrong positions. They didn't
seem to learn from the way that the referee was
interpreting things. Final penalty count was ten six, but it
was zero to five at halftime against the Black Ferns
and that just allowed Canada to give them the right
areas the park and dominate that first half hour and
(06:30):
really set the tone for the game. There was no
coming back from twenty four to seven down at half time,
especially obviously scored again after the break, But the discipline
of the Black Ferns allowed Canada to play in the
right areas of the park and put that pressure on.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
And that's a trend to elliott I saw in an
article might have been courtesy of our friends.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
At the post.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Eight of the last nine Tests, the Black Ferns have
had a higher penalty count than their opposition and they're
just not adjusting to the pictures that the referee want
to see.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And you look at the nature of the penalties. There was.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
A side entry at the down, there was a legal
entry at a line out, driving more not rolling away,
just you know, relatively simple simple things where you've just
got to show better pictures to the referee. And if
you don't have the ball and you don't have that territory,
you can't build momentum, you can't build pressure. And Canada
had all the running of the game and when they
(07:29):
when they had the ball, they shifted it wide. What
really impressed me most was how they're half back. Justine Peltier,
I think was awarded player of the match. She just
exploited all that you know she just had had the
ball on sort of on strings at one stage. Is
there in terms of how she was manipulating the Black
Fans defense and whether that was in and around the
(07:51):
ruck well being able to shift it wide Black Fans
quite narrow on defense, but it was because of the
work that Canada were doing in and around the ruck.
So yeah, as I say, a lot of questions as
we go forward now into the World Cup cycle this
and particularly for New Zealand Rugby, as we take a
sort of.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Wider lens on this.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
You know, seven days on from the All Blacks worst
loss in history against the Springboks in Wellington, for this
now to occur and the Black Ferns to lose in
a World Cup semi.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Final, that aura or that the brand, the New Zealand
Rugby brand has taken another pretty big body block.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, big head expert for David Kirkers. He got his
feet well under the desk now, but a lot to
work through around some of the pathways. And I guess
that leads us on to were the Black Ferns best
equipped for this tournament? We know how good England have
been in recent years. The Black Ferns obviously beating them.
That was the last loss they had in the twenty
twenty two World Cup final. But the Black Funds diet
(08:52):
you know in domestic rugby is all picky and they're
playing each other in a double round robin and a final.
It was a great comp this year. It was highly entertaining.
But is that doing enough to prepare these players for
test rugby in the styles that Canada, that France than
England bring well that stat you mentioned around some of
those defeats would tend to suggest not. But I don't
(09:13):
know that there's an easy fix. Australia at a super
W level aren't going to add that competitiveness. So from
a distance part of the world, the tyranny a distance
where New Zealand is and where the power lies in
the women's game at the moment, it's really hard from
a competitive level, at club or franchise level, whatever you
(09:33):
want to call it, to replicate that and get these
players prepared for test rugby.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Do you have any answers?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
No. I think New Zealand rugby would have landed on
an answer by now if there was a simple fix.
And I have heard some mention, for example about it
being a play gap rather than a pay gap for
the Black Ferns and the top of the pyramid for
women's rugby and New Zealand they played four tests going
into this World Cup, didn't have much of you know,
(10:02):
competitive games prior to the first half of the quarter
final against South Africa. It is a challenge and as
you say, a diet of just playing yourself in a
very similar style of rugby. And the fact that Australia
are nowhere near the mark in England, of France or
a Canada, it doesn't help the Black Fern's cause when
(10:23):
they enter these World Cup, these pinnacle tournaments. It has
been interesting over the last few days as well, Elliott
to note there is going to be some changes coming
with the w XV effectively binned after a couple of years,
So could we now see test series reintroduced. You know,
if I'm New Zealand Rugby going into the next World
(10:44):
Cup cycle, and there's probably a question around the coaching
mix as well for that next push for a next
World Cup. But you know, I'm on the phone to
the RFU in England, I'm on the phone to Rugby Canada, France,
even South Africa. They feel like they've made the most
ground outside of the top four to get as much
game time as possible. And then probably on the domestic scene,
(11:06):
who's to say we shouldn't send more more New Zealand
players up to play in the PVR, which is a
fully professional competition, rather than OPICK which is eight weeks.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
The PVR goes for eight months, and I.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
Know Alana Bremner, Amy Rule, Georgia Ponsonby are staying on
in England to play in the PVR in the upcoming season,
and it'll be very interesting, is sort of, I suppose
a little case study to see their growth and development
over the next twelve months.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
It will be, and that may indeed be the answer
that more of those players go up there. I think
the changes to w XV are promising to get a
sort of global calendar more aligned, which would allow these
players to go up north and be able to play
in those competitions and you know, on a more regular basis.
I think can only be a good thing because I
think Opeke is stuck between a rock and a hard pace.
(11:55):
Bringing in super w isn't going to change it. It's
just going to basically extend the season. I don't know
that extending the season is the answer. It's about having
more competitiveness, more competitive games, different styles of rugby, and
they're simply not getting that at the moment one player.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
So that's a question for you. Sorry, Elliott coaching.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
You know, I heard you and Liam speak last week
around the pressure that's on Scott Robertson as All Blacks
coach is And I don't know his contractual status, but
usually most of these tenures are are loomed in and
around a World Cup cycle. Alan Bunting with that two
from nine record in the World Cup cycle against England,
Canada and France and I think it's now about a
(12:35):
sixty six percent winning record in his tenure.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Is he under pressure? Could you see a scenario.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Heading into twenty twenty six where there's a new Black
fan's coach.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, I could.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I'm not sure of his contract status either, but I
think it's worthy of discussion and seeing whether he is
the best option to lead the side forward. You know,
renowned as a great culture coach, you know, great tickets
on him from the SEVENS program and what he was
able to do the year in terms of winning an
Olympic medal in the culture that he set up in
(13:07):
the elements of players, but fifteen's is a different ballgame
and it requires different strengths and different ways of going
about winning, and I'm not sure it's necessarily translated to
the fifteens level in terms of what Alan Bunting's been
able to do. I'm not sure there's a contender in
New Zealand waiting in the wings ready to go. Whitney
(13:31):
Hansen is obviously coach Martyr too for a time, Willie
Walker at the Blues. You know the possible contenders, I guess,
but I'm not sure that there's anyone banged down the door.
Do you look abroad? I mean John Mitchell. I'm not
sure how far he's contracted, but maybe he wants to
come home.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
At the end of the England World Cup cycle he
might well be a World Cup winning coach by the
end of the week. Perhaps there are other options out there,
So I think it's worthy of having on the table
and going what is the best way forward, especially as
you go into that new era of WXV Global Series
and then the next World Cup coming up in a
few years time in Australia as well. So I think
(14:10):
all options have to be on the table, you know,
around pathways, around coaching and everything else. Just finally, Nick
on the Black Ferns, Georgia Miller ruled out. I don't
know that she would have been the difference in terms
of turning over that result, but they needed someone at
the breakdown to put the pressure on, to be able
to bend a line and challenge things. I think she
(14:31):
was a big out for the Black Ferns, but I'm
not sure she would have made up the fifteen point
difference between the two sides. I think she's probably been
the Black Ferns best at this tournament, but not having
her was a big, big loss for the side.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
It was, and I do agree that I don't think
it would have been the.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Difference, but it might have even things up a touch,
even just the threat of Georgia Miller on a field
and whether that would have then seen Canada's defense sort
of fan out a bit, because as we've seen throughout
the course of the World Cup how dangerous Georgia Miller
was in the wider channels and her working and around
the breakdown as well. So yeah, that was body blow
(15:09):
for the Black Ferns. And just while we're on the
topic of this, and I don't want to make a
massive deal out of it because I think it has
been sort of well gone over over the last few days.
But I think if the Black Ferns and their communications
team had their time again, I think the whole secrecy
around her injury and her absence for that semi final
(15:31):
would have been dealt with differently, especially in a time
where you know, there has been criticism, for example, of
traditional media and it's coverage of the Black Ferns. I
think it's been rather thorough particularly over the last week,
and I feel like the Black Ferns just.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
They can't have it both ways. Where we're you know,
we've covered them.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Plenty in terms in a positive light because they have
been such great ambassadors and champions for the.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Sport and for New Zealand.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
To then kind of turn a corner and hide behind
secrecy or privacy, it just didn't really sit that well
with me.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah, look for Fartie Soav was ruled out of a
World Cup semi final in the men's you know, World Cup.
We want to know why and I think we would
be expected to to know why why he was ruled out.
So in terms of you know, same sature replier say
number on the back. I think there is an app
comparison to be made there with Georgia Miller. So that
was a shame, and I think I think the coverage
(16:28):
has been by and large pretty good. I think the
problem is when they compare it to the All Blacks,
and the All Blacks are always going to get outsized coverage,
and you know, every sport in New Zealand would love
to have the coverage of the All Blacks, and comparing
yourself to that, it's like its own round. It's like
its own sphere, the All Blacks because of the country's
interest levels in it. You know, it's the same round
as essentially a politics or a business or whatever it
(16:49):
might be. The All Black stands alone sort of outside
of sports. So while I get there were complaints and
people saying about the you know, the coverage, I don't
think comparing it to the All Blacks is necessarily the
right way to look at those two things. I think
there are you know, it's an Apple and Oranges scenario
despite them playing the same sport, which segways well into
the All Blacks. The sweet Kent first and foremost, what
(17:10):
was your reaction to that lost against South Africa last week?
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Goodness man, how long have we got? In some ways
the inconsistency of the All blackses were seen so far
in the Rugby Championship. I did see a dip coming
after such getting up for such a high Eden park
Ardisavez hundreds. You know, I didn't see a forty three
to ten demolition job, particularly with the selections that Razi
(17:38):
Erasthmus made for the spring box, leaning to a lot
of youth. But just some of the areas of concern
for the All Blacks were, you know, really shone through
in terms of the set piece, the scrum going backwards again,
the line out was the shambles without Cody Taylor and
some sort of similar themes clarity on attack as well,
(18:02):
it just felt a little bit lateral. They fell in
love with the chip and chase late as they were
chasing the game, and there's a lot for Scott Robertson
and as Mary men to examine to rectify for a
Wallaby team or bit coming off the loss themselves are
playing some pretty good footing and it shapes up as
(18:24):
a fascinating week leading into Saturday's letters.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Lo at eating part.
Speaker 4 (18:27):
It does.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It does All Blacks have to be better, and I'm
sure they will have done a thorough review into what
went wrong in the Capital, but it's going to be
interesting to see what changes they make. Whether they go
that was one really bad night and we'll stick with
the side there apart from maybe a tweak hit half
back and a couple of other changes here and there,
(18:50):
or whether they go right, this is the time we're
not getting enough out of our core players that we
have deemed as our first choice side.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Is time to completely change things up.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
It's going to be interesting to see which way Scott
Robinson goes, because it feels like this week is, you know,
a big fork in the road for his All Black tenure.
You know that there's obviously the Eden Park record to
protect again, but it feels like there needs to be
a statement of sorts and while they've beating the Wildbies
and beating the Well in recent times, it feels like,
you know, one step forward, two steps back for the
(19:21):
All Blacks over recent times. So do you see changes
wholesale changes to this All Black side this week?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
It's hard to say because I really can't get in
the head of Scott Robinson as a selector in terms
of it just seems like a very individualistic approach or
philosophy to his selections as opposed to.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
What he wants to see.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
And I'm probably more referring to players coming back from
injury and going via the NPC some have.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
You know, Caleb Clark, for examples, now played three games
in a.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
Row for Auckland and then we hear through the All
Blacks camp that he needs more time under his bout
within the All Blacks environment to get more reps in
and be ready for rugbyes, so that those two don't
quite align for me. Then you've got guys like so
Mighty Williams Wallace Atiti to ral Lomax and they don't
have to play NPC at all, they slot straight back in.
(20:15):
So just on that topic, I think cam Royguard is
so influential and important to the All Black side that
thirty minutes for Counties Monaco on the weekend will be enough.
And I expect them to start this weekend and I
think that'll make a massive difference. And that's not a
slight on Finlay Christy, but that's just the class that
cam Royguard offers his distribution is running threat I think
(20:39):
will add plenty to this All Blacks team.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
But I'm more leaning with you, Elliott.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
What I'd like to see is probably different to what
I am expecting, but I think it is time for
some pretty significant changes. I'd like to see a revision
back to Twuopo vi E at blindside flanker, and I
think that was an effective and pretty bold selection at
the beginning of the Test season and worked a good effect.
(21:05):
I let's see Fabian Holland back starting at locke and
in terms of lock cover, I've seen plenty of them
up close. I'd like to see Sam Dowry there on
the bench for Saturday's Test against the Wallabies. They're just
a few changes top of mine. Then further out wide,
Caleb Clark has to start for mine. Whether that's on
the left wing, it probably will be because we know
(21:27):
he's sort of more exclusive left winger.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Then what do you do at right wing at fullback?
Speaker 4 (21:32):
I don't think what happened with Will Jordan on the
right wing and Damian McKenzie effectively worked in that Wellington
Test against the Springboks. I'd probably go back to Jordan
at fullback and Leroy Carter. I don't think did anything
wrong really in his test debut, although it will be
remembered for all the wrong reasons. I'd shift him to
(21:52):
the right, and then it's the less defying Anooku selection
as well. There's quite a bit to unpack you personally,
that these are all these sort of adjustments that I'd make,
because I feel like after a humbling like that at
the Cake Tin at warrants a fork in the road
moment where you go, you know what, we need to
make some changes rather than in the past what we
(22:15):
have seen is loyalty and conservatism and here go boys,
You've earned the right to redeem yourselves.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
I think time has passed for that.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I think so too, and I think Scott Robinson's got
to use it as a license. You know, what's done
is done in terms of South Africa and Wellington, but
this is essentially your license to clean slate this team.
Whether he sees it the same way, I'm not sure,
but I'm with you, Roy Guard at nine. The big
question is what you do at ten and whether you
know they've got enough out of Boat and Barrett in Wellington,
(22:45):
whether Damien McKinsey maybe gets a look. He started that
one test in Hamilton against France. This year, they've gone
away from McKinsey, but do they go back there? You know,
reubend Love is in the wings. I would find it
highly unlikely that he'd get to go this week. I
think leicstifying a look at center is worthy of a
(23:06):
low billy proctor, you know, respect that they've given him
every chance this year to build and make that thirteen
Jersey his own, but it simply hasn't happened. So I'm
in greens. With those backline changes, Clark has to come in.
I'd move part of the right wing. I'd have will
Jordan at fullback. I'd have fining a Nookh at center
and Jordi Barrett at twelve and probably retain Bowden Barrett.
(23:28):
But you know what, I watched that Tartanaki Hawk's Bay
game on the weekend, and I know it's quote unquote
only in PC, but what Josh Jacob was doing around
driving his team around the park that game. Driver, but
ability to take on the line, That's what I want
out of an All Blacks ten and I'm just not
sure that their game plan is getting that at the moment.
(23:49):
We've got a lot of you know, bon and Barrett's
getting the ball sort of second receiver with the props
being used as first receivers and then coming in from
a standing start. I think that needs to look at
this weekend as well. So Scott Hanson obviously has his
hands on the game plan. I think it would have
been a probably sleepless few nights are around what we
(24:10):
expect from the All Blacks because simply there has to
be changes because they can't afford this Bletterslow Cup to
go to perth Alive.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't think. No, you're totally right, and.
Speaker 4 (24:21):
You know there's so much riding on this from the
Bledderslow cupory history perspective, Eden Park perspective that they can
ill afford to to get it wrong. So look at
it will be fascinate and come Thursday how they go
selection wise, just on the tens, I don't know if,
as you say, you brought Josh Jacob up there. I
don't think you see much stylistical difference these days between
(24:43):
a boat and Barrett and a Damien Mackenzie. Perhaps Damien
offers a little bit more of a running threat, but
they're both players that like to take on the line
they'd like to kicking over the top and yeah, so
I think it's much of a muchness really which way
they go. It's more about what they could do upfront
and what they could potentially do outside and whether that's
(25:05):
going to make a difference.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Some of that kicking in Wellington appalling. You know there
was kicking over the top when there was space out wide,
there was Ardie Savvier's chip to no one. The kicking
strategy needs a real look at from the All Blacks.
If they're going to win this game, what do you
expect the Wilbies. You know they're gonna come across the
tasm with no fear. That won at Alis Park this year. Yes,
(25:29):
they lost their most recent outing, but it feels like
the Wallabies have sort of turned a corner and even
if they lose their last outing, they sort of reset
and go right, what can we do this week and
come in with a new strategy, new mindset. And I
don't think going to Eden Park, even though they haven't
lost there since nineteen eighty six, will bother them one iota.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
No, I don't think they carry any mental baggage.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I have heard some suggestions to the contrary another broadcast,
But I think they come in their clean slate under
Joe Schmidt towards the back end of his tenure, leaving
after the Rugby Championship with a great deal of confidence
that there is a All Blacks team there that are
(26:14):
far from their best and can be exposed if you
pressure them in the right ways. It will be interesting
to see how they play, because I don't think they'll
play any anywhere like the Springboks do in terms of
their their aerial kicking game. Who the Wallabies commentator Sew
Maloney on with Jason Pine and Weekend Sports Newstalks the
(26:35):
b yesterday and sort of saying I don't think just
because South Africa offered you a blueprint of what you
can do to beat the All Blacks so convincingly that
you try and cut and paste that you have to
have the personnel required, So I don't think the kicking
game will be quite as prolific.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
However, you look at.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Some of their outside backs if they can get them
good front football and Max Jorgensen and Joseph Suerley, even
Andrew Callaway at the back. It as a shame Tom
Ryder is injured, but they've got themselves a team, and
I think they come here with confidence, with a point
to prove, and with some coaching acumen and Joe Schmidt
and Mike Kron as well in terms of they'll know
(27:15):
exactly what it's like having been in that all back environment,
knowing how they'll be talking and preparing for this week
to throw some pictures at the All Blacks and make
them potentially uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I feel like the start is going to be important.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
But as we've seen the Wallabies, I know they lost
last Sex, you're a second half team and if they
can even just stay with an arm's reach in the
first forty, we've seen how good they are coming home.
Whereas the All Blacks, I know they've maybe sorted out
a few things from minutes sixty one to eighty, but
as you and Liam have pointed out at nauseum the
(27:50):
twenty minutes after after half time, sorry, it's just turned
into a bit of a basket case. So yeah, look,
I'm not declaring the Wallabies favorites or anything like that,
but I think that we're in for a real ding
dong battle, which you know, I think this Rugby Championship
has offered for the first four rounds is outstanding from
(28:14):
just a pure excitement perspective that we've got this jeopardy
so often and Bledsoe Cup Test. It's like, right here
we go, we know the all blacks will be relatively comfortable.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
There's none of that this week, certainly, isn't it right?
Quick break, come back talk Randfully Shield after this on
Rugby Directs.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Every try try ten sixty second, every tackle tackle get
up again.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Afore it's Rugby Direct.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by our good friends
at Access Solutions. Will Nick you called this game on
the weekend thirty eight thirty six. O Tago take the
ran Furley Shield over Canterbury, whose defense did not last
long at all. It's gone around. I think this is
the fifth time it's had this season, the Ranfurly Shield.
But this was a remarkable come back. I was watching
(29:09):
it in our newsroom in thirty six twenty one. You
sort of consigned the game to the scrap peep. You
start writing up your stories for the bulletin and then
Otago just find something down to fourteen men and Canterbury
couldn't repel what they bought in that last or even
just a sort of twelve minute burst. They just came
out and put Canterbury to the sword and the Red
(29:31):
and Blacks had no response.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
I think Canterbury were but like you, Elliott, they already
started reading their own match report that this was a
convincing defense of the shield with about twenty odd minutes
to go. Yeah, it was extraordinary the shift and momentum,
as you say, thirty six twenty one. But not only that,
losing will tucker Otago to a yellow card and you thought, I,
you know, one more try and this will this will
(29:55):
break Otago's resilience and you know, beyond what that would
have been, what a twenty point comeback from there. But
goodness me, they've got some talent down there. Lucas Casey.
I hadn't heard much about Lucas Casey prior to my
preparation for this game, and then read via the Otago
(30:16):
Daily Times he was their club player of the year,
the open side flanker. He scored thirteen tries in the
club season and he is a tremendous athlete and just
something out of nothing individual brilliance on both occasions. The
first try was very good to put a big fend
on shay Fee Huckey I believe it was and go
around to score. But the second is just one of
(30:38):
the individual tries off the season. The footwork, he was
like an outside back and he made I think it
was James White in the backfield, their last man standing
in defense, looked rather silly with the footwork. But not
only him, I thought Dylan Pledger. A lot has been
made about this young halfback, his distribution, his decision making.
He's not only a player for the future, he's a
(30:58):
player for now, like he is a serious talent. And
Cameron Miller, I know he's been around a week while,
but I thought we were talking earlier about Josh Jacob
and Ten's who just can troll the tempo, make the
right decisions and can goal kick as well. That was
a big kick to put Otago ahead thirty eight thirty six.
So congratulations to the men from the Deep South, not
(31:21):
quite the deep Deep South, but from Dunedin and the surrounds,
because they thoroughly deserve that.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
And now the Ramfilly Shield goes again. How many weeks
in a row.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
North Harbor, my beloved Harbor's got a challenge on Saturday.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, this must be a record for most consecutive challenges.
It's been ridiculous over the last what's six seven weeks.
It feels like it's just been non stop. Usually you
get a a week to celebrate depending on how the
draw falls. That's quite handy, you know, you go away,
have a away game and maybe lose that by twenty
points and then come back and the celebrations are done.
You can focus on your shield defense. But it has
(31:57):
just been relentless. The Ramfilly Shield and the way it's
moved around the season and the number of challenges.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, I've loved it personally.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
I don't think it's taken the gloss off a Ranfilly
shield rain all. And just from a historic standpoint, the
fact that it's gone through five sets of hands Tartanaki, Waikato, Southland,
Canterbury and Otago hadn't been done since nineteen fifty, which
really sort of puts it in perspective. I know there
was a period there in the eighties where I think
it only changed hands once between Auckland and Canterbury, but.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
There's still a mystique, a magic.
Speaker 4 (32:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Tasman went very close the week before.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
It's really hard to defend because each team once they
see they've got a challenge, particularly when it's an unexpected
one that's come out of nowhere, that wasn't there at
the beginning when the schedule first came out, you can
just see it creates a real lift to be part
of something special. And that's what has been the case
for these these respective four teams who we've seen it
(32:56):
change hands so far this season. Who knows we could
have the fifth changing of hands this week. And then
I just had a weird glance at the draw. It's unlikely,
let's be honest, there o in eight Harbor, but one
can dream. But if Harbor win it, then they've got
to put it on the line the final week of
the round robin against Southland. So the Mirry Go Round,
the Ranfilly Shield Merry Go Round is alive and well
(33:18):
this season that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
What chance do you give North Harbor? I mean and
h I thought they played pretty well for periods against
Northland in that game over the weekend, but weren't good
enough to warn considered very late penalty to lose that game.
But do you give them a shot of going down
to Dunedin. You know, maybe you know there's been a
week on the Gold mid LALs from a target perspective,
(33:41):
maybe Harbor can hid down there fresh and catch them
on the hop.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
Never say never, however, it's pretty hard to bet against Otago,
isn't it. And I heard Mark Brown, their head coach,
speaking with Piney again yesterday on Sunday, and you know
he mentioned not only is it important in terms of
putting the ram for the shield away from the summer,
it's Liam Coltman's one hundredth game Targo. So I don't
(34:07):
think they're going to be acking any inspiration. So look,
I think it would be quite the miracle if North
Harbor get it done. But just a word on Harbor,
and I know, you know, the competitiveness of the NPC
has been very impressive actually this season and the fact
that Northland, you know, eightieth minute penalty, they're now five
(34:29):
wins from eight after that went over Harbor. But there
eighth on the ladder like this, you know that top
eight everyone sort of beating everyone as good as Canterbury
have been. I think it's still a pretty wide open competition.
But just on Harbor, I do admire teams or provinces
that really back their club program. You know they haven't
imported far and beyond. But this is the reality of
(34:53):
that decision in its infancy, you know, when you've got
to go all in now for at least a few
years to give these guys out of the club program
some regular time in MPC, because if you just sort
of chop and change or important and then go club
or not quite get the balance right, you're not going
to make the ground. But yeah, fingers crossed for all
(35:14):
those the people from Warkworth to Tackapona that we might
have something special.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I'm sure there'll be a few flying down to try
and get that shield home. Nick Buley, thank you so
much for your time on Rugby Direct this week. Appreciate
it as always and look forward to catching up again soon.
And you're joining us on Rugby Director just quickly.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I know Liam would have wanted to mention the Wellington
Southland score.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Any thoughts there, Well, I'll talk about Southland because they're
back con seeded fifty plus. In their last three artings
since winning the Shield they have been counties, so Canterbury
first Counties and then Wellington on the weekend.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
That's taybollical. It's some hangover, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Yeah, it really is, it really is. But no, congratulations
to Wellington. Good to see them in the top eight
so I think the eighth now, so it's great for them.
I appreciate it. Leam might join us back into the
week once he arrives back from his trop travels and
gets back on the ground here in Auckland. But thank
you as always Bules for joining us on RUGB Direct
card by Access Solutions elevating you and your business to
(36:20):
a higher level.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
For more from news Talks ed B, listen live on
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