October 21, 2025 • 33 mins
This week on Rugby Direct, Elliott Smith and Nick Bewley discuss the impending NPC final between Canterbury and Otago and determine where it might be won and lost, as well as contend with the fact the sides won't be able to call on All Blacks players for the big dance.
We also chat changes to the Super Rugby squad structure for next year and reveal where one of the country's most promising young talents will land at Super Rugby level, while we also discuss confirmation of the return of South Africa-New Zealand tours.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the Middle, scot.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Try the.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Bucket, Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Folklives Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith News Talks,
heb Rugby commentator with me a voice of Canterbury Rugby,
Nick Bewley. We've gone all Canterbury this week. Lilliam's gone
to watch some boxing in London, so we thought let's
go all ridd and Black and well, Nik, I know
you've got Lord Eastern North Harbor, but this week you
(00:58):
are calling the Canterbury Otago Final greetings, Welcome into Rugby
Direct once more.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Now please to be here, Elliott Yah. It's a special
time in the South, isn't it. Every men's provincial trophy
guaranteed to sit down here in the summer mid Canterbury
win and the Meads Cup North Otago, the Lahore Cup.
Of course, Otigo got their hands on the Ranfully Shield
and whatever which way it goes on Saturday, whether it
will be where I am here in Canterbury or down
(01:24):
south and Dunedin the MPC title, So a special time
for rugby in this part of the country certainly is.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And look, this is a rematch of the Ranfilly Shield
Challenge from a few weeks ago where Otago took it
away from Canterbury. I know you've been out to the
Canterbury trainings this week and got amongst them and spoken
to them about what they're expecting. But is there revenge
utu on their mind for what happened a few weeks
back at a Polo Project stadium.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I certainly think it'll play its part. However, there's just
so much history between these two proud provinces that I
don't think it'll be totally central to Canterbury's preparation. But yeah,
Marty Burke, the Canterbury coach coincidentally, this is his last
hurrah after four years at the Helm and one as
(02:14):
an assistant, so there's a bit of motivation to go
out and high there too. But yeah, he mentioned you
know that the Otago came up the road four or
five weeks ago wherever whenever it was, and took something
that they cherished a lot and really hold in the
highest of regards, and the logger would away from them
that certainly, I'm sure there'll be that sort of lingering
in the background. They did mention when I went out
(02:36):
to training on Tuesday that they haven't really gone back
in great detail over that game. And really for Canterbury
on that day, it was the last twenty minutes where
it just fell to pieces. I was just looking at
some of the replay footage myself just as a we reminder,
and they're up fourteen nil after ten minutes. There was
a point there fifty five minutes into the game just
felt like one more try and this was really going
(02:58):
to blow out for Canterbury, but Targo just eaked their
way back into the contest. They've got game breakers, as
we know across the park and they can score points
very quickly and once their tails are up, which they
were on that occasion, they're a pretty tough nut to crack,
so it all shapes up beautifully. It's the first time
in a really long time from a Canterbury rugby standpoint Alliott,
(03:20):
that they've opened the South stand, a pollotroject stadium such
as been. I suppose the dwindling crowds in christ Genes.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Social commentary boxing isn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It is, which will make it fantastic because usually it's
such a bizarre experience where we're commentating in the south
stand and it's literally me, Matt Todd, who's going to
be in commentary with me on Saturday afternoon, Bill Toomey
pushing the technical buttons and the injured Cannabury plays.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
There's usually about seven or eight of us total. So
the fact that the south stand is open is fantastic.
And last I heard was they're hoping for in and
around thirteen thousand, which is at least double, if not more,
what they got for the semi final against Hawks Bay,
which is fantastic and a real voter confidence an afternoon
rugby as well with a four o'clock kick off.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah absolutely, I don't know. There well be plenty of
people coming up from Dnetan and trying to squeeze it
into maybe a day trip or an overnight trip for
the final, which is you know, the wonderful thing about
a South Island final as well, and Otigo looking to
do what they haven't been able to do since nineteen
ninety eight, and they have been in really impressive form
this season. In fact, they're two you know, knockout performances.
(04:30):
The quarterfinal was really tough against Waikato, but I thought
they stretched the leagues and played some really nice rugby
last week against a tough Bay of Plenty side and
really didn't allow them too many chances at all. And look,
a lot's been made of Dylan Pledger. He's been outstanding
I think this season, and you know, it doesn't get
to be on the verge of what many was saying
(04:50):
an All Black squad didn't make the All Blacks fifteen
in the end, but you know he's been impressive for them.
So too Lucas Casey. But the planier that I want
to highlight is actually cam Miller because I think in
a way that Dylan Pledge has taken some of the
heat off what a first five is expected to do,
and that's what great number nine are able to do,
is just to alleviate some of that playmaking pressure and
put it on their own showers. But Camiller's guided this
(05:13):
team around the park beautifully. I think over the last
few weeks he was integral and that Shield Challenge. He
was very very good last week. He's not a flashy ten,
but he is a game driving ten that will get
you around the park. And I have to say I've
been really impressed by what he's been able to do
this season. And we talk about higher on is maybe
a little bit unlucky not to be looked at for
that All Blacks fifteen squad. But you know that matchup
(05:35):
at ten's going to be interesting on Saturday afternoon, isn't it?
With Cam Miller at ten four Otago and then Andrew
Neustub who is very much a you know, with the
greatest respect to makeshift ten for this Canterbury side. What
are you expecting from that particular matchup.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, that's a fascinating one in the sense that I
think when Marty Burke got Andrew news Tub to commit
to Cannibre, I think this is his first fifteen's MPC
campaign since the COVID days when there wasn't as much
sevens around twenty twenty twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
It was with designs on being.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
A back utility via the bench capable of covering ten
fullback wing at a push. In the end, Andrew Newsta
because primarily James White has spent a lot of time
out with injury, and Johnny McNicholas season ending injury as well.
Andrew news Tops played every game primarily in the last
month or so as the starting first five eighth, and
(06:28):
while he has played a little bit of rugby there,
it doesn't seem sort of the natural fit to the
way he wants to go about his work. He is
playing behind a very good pack which has allowed him
to play on that front foot and shift the ball
out to a very experienced midfield and Dallas McLeod and
Branden enall. But just on your points with cam Miller,
I think you're absolutely right, and he's had to do
(06:50):
it the hard way, hasn't He hasn't all come at
once on this linear line through the age groups and
just bursting onto the scene. There's been some injury adversity,
there's been some dips in form, but he is playing
a very important role for the Otago side and not
overplaying his hand as you say. He's getting plenty of
fantastic service from this live a halfback that is Dylan Pledger,
(07:12):
but he's just doing his core role really well, guiding
the team around the park. And most importantly from a
points accumulation perspective, goodness me, he can kick the ball
off the tee well and truly the most efficient goalkicker
in the NPC this season, so that'll be one to
watch the Battle of the Tens. That just add some
(07:33):
information too that James White will play via the bench.
He's been in and out of this team with injury,
so whether we see James White later and the second
half of this final will be something to keep an
eye to.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Where do you think it will be decided to come
Saturday afternoon four o'clock kickoff? You look at the Ford
packs and maybe Canterbury has the edge there with with
no disrespect to Otago's pack, but just the experience that
Canterbury is able to call on. But for me, I
don't think there's much between these two sides. You look
at the man for man and you know there's some
international experience that the way of Canterbury Otago's got, you know,
(08:05):
like Sir Christian Leo Willi is there Viace camp To
who's already played Test rugby this year. So for me,
I think it's a real toss up game. Where are
you expecting it to be? Decided comes Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Oh, big time, big time toss up game. And I
think it can't be understated too. I know Marty Burke
was trying his utmost in the Tuesday media to say
the game wouldn't be determined by not having George Bell
and Sam Dowry available, But those two have been up
there with Canterbury's best, perhaps alongside Tom Christie in the
last month. The way George Bell has come back from
(08:38):
injuries thoroughly deserved his elevation back into the All Blacks
after an injury interrupted campaign at the beginning of the year,
the way he's carrying the ball, his accuracy at lineout time,
and Sam Dowry for a large part of the NPC season.
In fact, he might still sit at the top of
the Dwayne Monkly Metal standing, such was his ability in
and around both sides of the ball again at set Peace.
(09:02):
So my understanding is obviously Brody McAllister comes back in
who George Bell effectively unseen out of that All Blacks
in the year tour squad, and he'll have a point
to prove, no doubt, and it'll be a big opportunity
for Brodie McAllister before that All Blacks fifteen tour, Liam
Jack getting the start with no Sam Darry. It's cliched, Elliott,
but I think it does start up front and Canterbury's
(09:24):
ability to just have a stranglehold on an opposition team.
That's what they did to Hawk's Bay, That's what they
did the eventually an extra time to County's Medicale when
the going got really tough there. A lot of teams
have come down here to christ Church and been confident
of getting a result, and for whatever reason, Canterbury's ability
(09:46):
to just suffocate and scramble. What when it looks like
they're going to break, you know, they find another gear.
Otago the only team to hand them a loss this season,
So if anyone can do it, it'll be them. But
they'll have to be just as good as they were
last month when they won that Ranfhilly Shield match.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Absolutely look you touched on it before. With Brodie McAllister
expected to come back in but not All Blacks for Canterbury.
They won't be able to call on George Bell or
Sam Dowry for this match. They've been so integral to
them this season. It doesn't sound like Marty boot push
that hard to have them included. They were always the
(10:24):
All Blacks flying out on Friday out of Auckland and
for this end of year tour. Great to have both
those players call back in, but it was always going
to be unlikely that they'll be released to the final
and fly you know, a day or forty eight hours later,
especially given the injuries to the All Blacks locks, which
is where obviously Sam Darry slides in.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, look, it's a little bit disappointing, I must say,
especially given you know, these are guys who have been
called back in. It's not like they were involved in
the in the Rugby Championship mix. However, I can completely
understand it as you o line there, Elliott, particularly in
the locking department. There's a real chance that that Sam
Dowry might have to provide lock and cover via the
(11:04):
bench against Ireland in Chicago next week behind Scott Barrett
and and Fabian Holland. You're not going to travel all
the way to Chicago without a third Hoker either, just
in case something happens to Cody Taylor or Samasoni Tokyaho.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So look, it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And as I say, Brady mcallis to two tests for
the All Blacks this year. Pretty handy replacement and I've
been very impressed to when Liam Jack has had his
opportunities starting for this Canterbury team. So you know, that's
why you have a squad of thirty odd plus because
you never know exactly when you might need to call
upon them.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Absolutely that game four o'clock on Saturday afternoon, as a
Neck out lined, he's got the call on gold Sport
and iHeartRadio. Speaking of squads, Super Rugby squads, Now, this
is a story that you had this morning across news talks.
He'd be around some changes to the Super Rugby contracting
system for twenty twenty six and beyond that, teams can
(12:00):
now contract twelve wider training group members. There are some
cavigates that they can't be called upon necessarily or thrust
straight into playing. But an interesting story and some you know,
a wee bit of an overhaul because pathways has been
quite a hot topic in recent times and they're making
some significant significant changes. As you outline your stories this morning.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, there was quite a lot to unpack out of
this one Elliott's and of course this is part of
a wider project or review that you might hear some
New Zealand Rugby people terms IMPAC that the men's Pathways
and Competitions Project, and yeah, as we reported on news Talks,
he'd be earlier this morning. A change in that wider
(12:43):
Training group contracting mix. So usually it's been in and
around five or six wider Training Group members. That number
is effectively going to double out to a maximum of twelve,
So there's no change, I should stress there's no change
to how many you can fully contract at a New
Zealand Super Rugby team that remains at thirty eight but
now effectively thirty eight and twelve you get to fifty
(13:06):
and there's a lot of numbers and a lot of
males to feed, so to speak. As you mentioned, there's
some caveats along the way. The wider Training Group members
can't be available for selection unless they're called upon as
an injury replacement to a fully contracted player. They have
to be at least twenty years old, so there is
some questions there too as to where some of our youngest,
(13:28):
brightest prospects under the age of twenty are going to land.
There's a greater alignment with the local provincial unions in
the sense that up to six of the twelve, say
for Crusaders for example, they'll get sort of first crack
at up to six Canterbury and or Tasman players before
(13:49):
then launching into a draft for those sort of final
spots of the wider training group. And on top of
this as well, again, if you're still with me, good
on you. But one of the interesting layers to this too,
with all this around, having all these extra players, you know,
how are they going to get some meaningful rugby when
(14:10):
they're not picked in the early rounds of Super Rugby
while we wait for the club rugby season to kick
in to gear sort of middle of April now. Mike Anthony,
who has spoke to for this story from New Zealand Rugby,
said they are going to have a more structured development competition,
a more structured second tier competition. It's sort of like
back to the future for teams like the Crusader Knights.
(14:31):
But the caveat there is they can't do everything, and
they're going to pull some resourcing away from the under
twenty Super tournament that has annually been held in Topoor
and that will no longer be on the schedule for
twenty twenty six quite a bit to unpack, some a
fear bit of moving in and around, but this is something
the five New Zealand franchises fed back to New Zealand Rugby.
(14:55):
By and large it wasn't it was termed as me
as not universal support, but they've got what more or
less they're after rather than parachuting and replacement players. I
think of guys like John I Foller, a couple of
three years ag Go, all of a sudden out of
absolutely nowhere, was called into a crusader's squad because of
several injuries in the front row. These guys are now
going to be fully immersed from pre season next month,
(15:18):
and should there be injuries, which we know there will be,
they can be called upon and there's a lot more
insurance policy I suppose you can say for the five
New Zealand teams right here in New Zone.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, really interesting changes. So two hundred and fifty essentially
contracted players as part of this Malwana incidentally separate because
they don't fall under that New Zealand Rugby or the
five Foundation club framework. But by and large I think
these changes are the right move and you can see
some more respecting put on the pathways. We've seen players
you know, jump around different franchise even if they didn't
(15:52):
get game time. They're sort of popped up at training,
you know, for two or three franchises a season to
help out and boost numbers. Whether it's a specialist role
like a half back or something like that, there's often
been players that have jumped around franchises to fill in
that sort of role. So I think having it locked
in and you know, a clearer idea of these pathways
can only be a good thing for Super Rugby. I
(16:14):
do think there are still some major issues around what
the NPC pathway is versus the Super Rugby pathway. It
was interesting to see Harry Inch's comments sort of around
the you know, not his comment specifically, but there was
some intimation around the pathway system. So I don't think
it's entirely cleared up by this, But if you're a
young player, the path the Super Rugby is a lot
(16:35):
clearer maybe than it was, you know, before these changes
were made.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, and with these wider training group contracts that these
fringe players will sign, that there will be a PU
or an NPC contract that goes hand in hand with that. Yeah. Look,
I think on the whole too, I'm with you Elliott.
I think the fact there'll be full immersion it helps
all the super rugby teams from that perspective, getting players
(17:01):
involved intricately within a super rugby environment, it's going to
create extra playing the cross all positions. Part of the
push that Mike Anthony mentioned to me as part of
the story is that of the twelve should have all
those main positions covered within that twelve and it will
probably detract from players who don't get caught in that
(17:24):
first round of the of the fully fledged contracts from
looking out looking at overseas, sorry, looking at an email
r in the United States, looking at you know, that
shoot shield in Australia for example.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
So I think on the whole it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
There will be some people that question why they had
to go away from the Super Rugby Under twenty tournaments,
which has helped them pick a New Zealand under twenty
squad for the World Championships and the like. But that
Super Rugby Under twenty tournament hasn't been there, you know,
way back when you know you've picked out of out
(18:00):
of club form, you picked out of training camps. So yeah,
it'll be it'll be interesting to see how it works
in practice. And I think what we're going to see
as a fan and of members of the media covering rugby,
Elliott is we're going to start to see a little
bit more player movement and just understanding the player depth
(18:21):
in each of these five new Zealand rugby teams. I've
already seen in the last couple of weeks. Eli Oden
Ryan for example, has signed a contract where it's wider
training group for the Blues for twenty six into a
full contract for twenty seven. Lucas Casey for example, out
of Otago we were talking about before, he's got a
wider training group deal with the Highlanders. He's part of
(18:42):
their local six for twenty twenty six. So yeah, we're
going to start seeing because usually these full contracts are
so on up so far in advance, because you know
when basically twelve months in advance before players come off contract.
But we are going to see, yeah, a little bit
more movement, which I think.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Is good for the game. I think it is good
for the game. I've been advocate for maybe having protected
players like they used to back in the old days.
Now with that would still work in twenty twenty five,
twenty six, So I don't know, but protecting a certain
number of players, then you can pick a certain number
out of the draft. But there's a bit of a
balance here in terms of that and giving opportunities to
players that might put their hands up in the NPC
(19:20):
as well, that come out of nowhere, really have been
under the radar or on the radar, and then have
a booming NPC season. There is going to be room
for that for players to be drafted in. Now. Another
story that you had today, Oli Mathis, who's been the
talk of the NPC and New Zealand rugby for a
couple of seasons. Now hasn't hit played Super rugby, but
this hybrid player who can play flanker and wing, you've
(19:43):
got some news around where he might be going for
twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah. Well it was sort of a byproduct of this
discussion around the wider training group contracts that got some
information that the Crusaders have secured the services of Oli Mathis.
There's been a real tug of war between the Crusaders
and the Chiefs. Of course, oly Mathis plays as provincial
rugby for Wakato. He hasn't played Super Raby, as he
(20:10):
mentioned now he's been in the All Black sevens environment,
but certainly one of the country's top prospects and as
you say, that ability to be equally adept at both
flanker and wing a real prospect indeed. But yeah, it
is my understanding he spent some time down here during
the Crusaders Super Ragby campaign that was earlier in the
year as an injury replacement or as injury training cover
(20:31):
at the time for Ethan Blackadder, and it is yet
my understanding. We're reporting today that Oli Mathis will be
one of those wider training group members for the Crusaders
in twenty twenty six, so that doesn't necessarily mean he
will play for the Crusaders next year. However, for those
who are unaware haven't been following the NBC as closely
(20:53):
on the Crusader's books, Cullen Grace, Corey Callow and Ethan
Blackadder up and Tasman, all of whom have sat out
almost all of the NPC with season ending injuries, and
all of them play in the loose forward position. So
there is a likelihood of a possibility that Oli Mathis
could play some early rounds of of Super Rugby next
year in a Crusaders jersey. And he's just the latest
(21:13):
and a long line of Hamilton Boys alumni that all
of a sudden have found found homes here in Crusaders country.
Noah Hothem, Taima, Taylor Cahill. It's a yeah, it's been interesting.
I suppose that's just the professional rugby way these days,
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Indeed, that's an interesting point. If let's say, for example,
Oli Mathis does play those opening rounds of the NBC
and plays the house down and then the fit again
flankers come back into the reckoning. Does he didn't have
to be dropped? Or do you go with the hot hand?
Like it's going to be interesting test of the system
as to whether they're allowed to keep playing this wider
training group player if he's you know, shooting the lights
(21:49):
out for four or five games in a row and
you know in irrepressible form, surely coaches aren't going to
drop the informed player for a fit again player that's
coming back.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, it is going to be one to watch, as
I say, one, you know, like like change, there's gonna
be probably some some some teasing issues, and I do
wonder in terms of keeping the integrity of what's been
outlaid as all the sort of rules and stipulations that
there isn't going to be any sort of you know,
hypothetical situations.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
But he isn't. He's still quite injured, but actually he's not.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So we'll keep playing, as you say, with the hot
hand of the guy on the wider training group contract.
But it's certainly New Zealand Rugby's intention for the thirty
eight players from each of the five New Zealand franchises
who are fully contracted to be first cabs off the rank.
But I think, yeah, I think we might see maybe
one or two scenarios like that play out next year,
(22:44):
particularly as we know with you know, head injuries one
week out, does that mean you can elevate a playoff
that just one week? Does it need to be a
bit more on the medium to long term. There's still
a little bit to be worked through, But yeah, we
want to follow next year for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
It will be indeed in Super Rugby squads out November,
the Sex Quick Break here on rugbyric come back and
took the greatest rivalry after this.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Every trive try and sixty second every tackle to tackle, tackles,
get up again, I take him.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Before at times Rugby Direct how it buddies talks.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You're back with Rugby Direct and Forkliff Solutions. Of course,
our good friends. They're lifting you and your business to
a higher level. Rugby's greatest rivalry finally confirmed last week, Nick,
this has been the offering for well, I think about
two and a half years since it was first reported.
It's been pretty much an open secret that it's going
(23:49):
to be happening. There was a fair bit of detail
to hammer out, not least with the likes of the
rest of the SANS unions, but for tour matches, for
tests one outside of South Africa. I was going to
ask you for your initial reaction, but you probably had
a couple of years to stew over it. So what's
your your thoughts on on how this has all played
out and you know, having a tour return to the
(24:11):
international schedule.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah. Look, on principle, I'm a huge fan and I
suppose I'm revealing my age here, but I was two
years old when the All Blacks toured South Africa nineteen
ninety six. So these are memories I've really only seen
on YouTube and the likes since. But you know, you
hear from your Shawn Fitzpatrick's and you're justin Marshall's about
(24:34):
how high they hold that successful tour, and you can't
help but be excited about the prospect of the All
Blacks potentially being able to do something similar thirty years on.
I can't help but feel, just as a lot of
people have sort of mentioned, just as were started to
get into a real position of competitiveness with the Rugby Championship,
(24:57):
that it is unfortunate timing, if anything, that we're going
to park the Rugby Championship for a year. It just
felt like there was some a real groundswell of momentum
each and every weekend you'd go in and you wouldn't
know who would beat who. However, I think, yeah, as
I say, i'd touch on my first point and that
getting the tours back and the spring Box are our
(25:19):
greatest rival. I'm very excited about it and midweek games
and the like. I remember Scott Robinson was in town
here a couple of weeks ago talking about the All
Blacks End of Year tour squad that had just named
and the All Blacks fifteen squad, he mentioned to the
assembled media, then he'd look to take about forty players.
So we're going to rarely see where Scott Robinson is
(25:40):
at too in the third year of the World Cup cycle,
and what better test than to put yourself up against
the double world champions.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I think it ends up with the All Blacks
having seventeen games next year when you incorporate those tour
games as well. So it's a big workload, but I
think it is. It's a big test a year out
from the World Cup, but it's going to put through
the ringer. They're going to have to test their depth
chart out a little bit. And look, I think it's
a real win for Tea strugby. I would have loved
to see Australia tour Argentina Oral vice versa. At the
(26:11):
same time, it may not have the same rivalry necessarily
those two teams, but if we can bring back tours,
and I remember the nine ninety six tour quite clearly,
you know, and how important that was and it was
seen as the last chance before professional rugby really took
hold in the Try Nations, you know, the last chance
to actually win a series on South African selt soil.
(26:32):
Now thirty years later, you know a new generation of
players is getting that opportunity. The Rugby Championship initially wasn't
going to be in for twenty twenty eight. They were
looking at other options, maybe around the All Blacks touring
Australia for three tests and also during Argentina for three
Tests as well. Then because of this year's Rugby Championship,
(26:55):
they've walked that back a little bit and implemented the
Rugby Championship again. So we'll have a full Rugby Championship
twenty seven to twenty eight and twenty nine, so I
think there's a nice balance there, and then twenty thirty
South Africa come to New Zealand and play those matches here.
So look, I think the Rugby Championship have got a
little bit style and this year is was really exciting,
really good. But if you can have it three years
(27:16):
out of four and then have something different in that
fourth year, I think you've got a pretty good balance
by and larger across the international rugby calendar.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So remind me what are the Wallabies and the Permas
doing next year? They're going to welcome some Northern Hemisphere opposition.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Well, I think they're going to play each other in
a couple of tests. I think the Japan's going to
go to Australia as well. But basically, if you're the
All Blacks, that the year looks a bit like this.
So you have those three Nations Cup games or Nations
Championship games in July, and it's going to be France, Ireland, Italy.
(27:51):
My understanding that they'll come in July and play in
New Zealand, so no more three year tours at least
in those years, and then there'll be a couple of
weeks the All Blacks will go up to South Africa
for that six seven week tour, a couple of weeks
break after that, they'll play a Bledislow home away in
early October, and then a couple more weeks break and
(28:11):
then the quote unquote interview two. It's really the second
part of the Nation's Championship where they'll play those other
six nation sides and then a finals weekend in London.
So that's how you arrive at your seventeen games to
the Lakes next year.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
And you mentioned that we'd stale there, Elliott, and I
think you know you hear some players talk about not
necessarily it being monotonous, but that's sort of you know that,
you know the July series is coming. You know exactly
what a rugby championship is. By now, with the greatest respect,
you know what an.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
End of year tour is.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I think variety for the player is going to help
perhaps from a retention standpoint as opposed to just all
our contracting peraps being centered around that four year cycle
of a World Cup. And I think for the fan too, yeah,
As I say, like it's a little bit of a
just unfortunate timing with how good the rugby Championship was
(29:02):
this year, But I think something different on the program
can only be of benefit to the game at the
moment when you know there are some underlying issues elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, And I think we'll get to the point very soon.
And I'm sure maybe the next high profile player that
signed with New Zealand Rugby will be signed through until
twenty thirty because Damian McKenzie last year signed through or
earlier this year signed through to twenty twenty nine. That
encompasses the Lions Tour. So if you're a player that's
a pois to resign and I think most of, if
not all, the All Blacks maybe but Finlay Christia have
(29:35):
resigned for next year at least anyway, But those players
ending twenty twenty six will now have you know that
South African tour next year, a World Cup in twenty seven,
to look at a Lions tour in twenty nine, and
if they're still young enough and fit enough twenty thirty
when South Africa come here for that tour as well,
could well be on the cards. So you're presenting a
pretty compelling I think, four or five years worth of
(29:57):
rugby fixtures to not going to get that in the
three sixty No, No, I mean, are three sixty has
other benefits? Of course, you know you can play for
or whatever the do buy dolphins exactly, the do buy dolphins.
You know it's got other benefits, but you can't get
that in our three sixty three. A very good point.
The other point before we wrap up, and Gregor Paul's
(30:18):
written about this in the Herald Today and opinion piece,
is that South Africa is pushing for the Rugby Championship
to be moved to February March, and Australia's thought to
be keen relatively keen as well. Gives them a bit
of clear ear before the AFL and NRL seasons get
into full swinging. I think Argentina would probably go along
(30:39):
with it, till I'm not entirely sure of their position.
New Zealand Rugby has been reported as the holdout. I'll
put it to Mark Robinson last week when I spoke
to him, and they're not entirely against the idea, but
it'd be a fundamental reshaping of the calendar as we
know in New Zealand rugby. If you were to start
or play, you know, six NA Rugby Championship in that
same window as the Six Nations across February and March,
(31:00):
you'd have to change Super Rugby where you already played
Super Rugby early and started in January. I don't know,
but it's I can see why it's appealing to South
Africa given some of their players come around the globe.
I'm not entirely sold on it though. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
There looks like a fair bit of work that would
have to go into it.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I'm even just thinking out loud here from a broadcast standpoint,
what does that mean for the will almost be a
vacuum of volume when we're usually right in the middle
of rugby, and from a content perspective, look, I can
see the merits behind it, and I'm sure from a
I know we're getting a fancy new stadium opening in
(31:41):
April next year, Elliot, but going along to rugby and
the winter can be a bit of a struggle for
the punters. You know, those early rounds of Super Rugby
are pretty well supported. So if all of a sudden
that was international rugby in February or March here in
New Zealand, I think that would still be very well supported.
But as you say, it would be quite a structural
upheaval from what we've known for the last two plus decades.
(32:04):
So yeah, there's a lot of changing, isn't there. And
I mean you said that you talk to Mark Robinson's
going to have a new New Zealand Rugby CEO probably
to make that decision.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You watch the space on that front, and I think
watch the space on yeah, the movement as well. I
think there'll be more discussions when the Sans Unions meets
at World Rugby in November as well, so not too
far away and might be a bit more movement on
that front too. So we will watch the space. But Nick,
look forward to your commentary on Saturday afternoon Canterbury, O
target should be a cracker. As I said, gold Sport
(32:36):
and iHeartRadio have a great call and enjoy the occasion.
I was going to say it's your last dance at
a Pier Project stadium, but as we know, not quite.
The Crusaders are back for more next year.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
They can't help themselves. They love the place. It's been
great to jump on.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
That is Rugby directful another week. We'll be back late
next week, sole bit of a break, but myself and
Lean once we get to Chicago, will sit down, once
the team's a name for the All Blanks and Island game,
will sit down and pod then. So probably in your
feed sometime Friday next week. Well order to your company then,
Thanks to Garry Share as well for producing this podcast,
(33:11):
which has been powered as always by fooklib Solutions, lifting
you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
For more from News Talks ed B listen live on
air or online and keep our shows with you wherever
you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio
You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Straight down the Middle, scot.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Try the.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Bucket, Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct
with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Folklives Solutions, lifting you
and your business to a higher level. Elligant Smith News Talks,
heb Rugby commentator with me a voice of Canterbury Rugby,
Nick Bewley. We've gone all Canterbury this week. Lilliam's gone
to watch some boxing in London, so we thought let's
go all ridd and Black and well, Nik, I know
you've got Lord Eastern North Harbor, but this week you
(00:58):
are calling the Canterbury Otago Final greetings, Welcome into Rugby
Direct once more.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Now please to be here, Elliott Yah. It's a special
time in the South, isn't it. Every men's provincial trophy
guaranteed to sit down here in the summer mid Canterbury
win and the Meads Cup North Otago, the Lahore Cup.
Of course, Otigo got their hands on the Ranfully Shield
and whatever which way it goes on Saturday, whether it
will be where I am here in Canterbury or down
(01:24):
south and Dunedin the MPC title, So a special time
for rugby in this part of the country certainly is.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
And look, this is a rematch of the Ranfilly Shield
Challenge from a few weeks ago where Otago took it
away from Canterbury. I know you've been out to the
Canterbury trainings this week and got amongst them and spoken
to them about what they're expecting. But is there revenge
utu on their mind for what happened a few weeks
back at a Polo Project stadium.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I certainly think it'll play its part. However, there's just
so much history between these two proud provinces that I
don't think it'll be totally central to Canterbury's preparation. But yeah,
Marty Burke, the Canterbury coach coincidentally, this is his last
hurrah after four years at the Helm and one as
(02:14):
an assistant, so there's a bit of motivation to go
out and high there too. But yeah, he mentioned you
know that the Otago came up the road four or
five weeks ago wherever whenever it was, and took something
that they cherished a lot and really hold in the
highest of regards, and the logger would away from them
that certainly, I'm sure there'll be that sort of lingering
in the background. They did mention when I went out
(02:36):
to training on Tuesday that they haven't really gone back
in great detail over that game. And really for Canterbury
on that day, it was the last twenty minutes where
it just fell to pieces. I was just looking at
some of the replay footage myself just as a we reminder,
and they're up fourteen nil after ten minutes. There was
a point there fifty five minutes into the game just
felt like one more try and this was really going
(02:58):
to blow out for Canterbury, but Targo just eaked their
way back into the contest. They've got game breakers, as
we know across the park and they can score points
very quickly and once their tails are up, which they
were on that occasion, they're a pretty tough nut to crack,
so it all shapes up beautifully. It's the first time
in a really long time from a Canterbury rugby standpoint Alliott,
(03:20):
that they've opened the South stand, a pollotroject stadium such
as been. I suppose the dwindling crowds in christ Genes.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Social commentary boxing isn't it?
Speaker 3 (03:31):
It is, which will make it fantastic because usually it's
such a bizarre experience where we're commentating in the south
stand and it's literally me, Matt Todd, who's going to
be in commentary with me on Saturday afternoon, Bill Toomey
pushing the technical buttons and the injured Cannabury plays.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
That's it.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
There's usually about seven or eight of us total. So
the fact that the south stand is open is fantastic.
And last I heard was they're hoping for in and
around thirteen thousand, which is at least double, if not more,
what they got for the semi final against Hawks Bay,
which is fantastic and a real voter confidence an afternoon
rugby as well with a four o'clock kick off.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah absolutely, I don't know. There well be plenty of
people coming up from Dnetan and trying to squeeze it
into maybe a day trip or an overnight trip for
the final, which is you know, the wonderful thing about
a South Island final as well, and Otigo looking to
do what they haven't been able to do since nineteen
ninety eight, and they have been in really impressive form
this season. In fact, they're two you know, knockout performances.
(04:30):
The quarterfinal was really tough against Waikato, but I thought
they stretched the leagues and played some really nice rugby
last week against a tough Bay of Plenty side and
really didn't allow them too many chances at all. And look,
a lot's been made of Dylan Pledger. He's been outstanding
I think this season, and you know, it doesn't get
to be on the verge of what many was saying
(04:50):
an All Black squad didn't make the All Blacks fifteen
in the end, but you know he's been impressive for them.
So too Lucas Casey. But the planier that I want
to highlight is actually cam Miller because I think in
a way that Dylan Pledge has taken some of the
heat off what a first five is expected to do,
and that's what great number nine are able to do,
is just to alleviate some of that playmaking pressure and
put it on their own showers. But Camiller's guided this
(05:13):
team around the park beautifully. I think over the last
few weeks he was integral and that Shield Challenge. He
was very very good last week. He's not a flashy ten,
but he is a game driving ten that will get
you around the park. And I have to say I've
been really impressed by what he's been able to do
this season. And we talk about higher on is maybe
a little bit unlucky not to be looked at for
that All Blacks fifteen squad. But you know that matchup
(05:35):
at ten's going to be interesting on Saturday afternoon, isn't it?
With Cam Miller at ten four Otago and then Andrew
Neustub who is very much a you know, with the
greatest respect to makeshift ten for this Canterbury side. What
are you expecting from that particular matchup.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, that's a fascinating one in the sense that I
think when Marty Burke got Andrew news Tub to commit
to Cannibre, I think this is his first fifteen's MPC
campaign since the COVID days when there wasn't as much
sevens around twenty twenty twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
It was with designs on being.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
A back utility via the bench capable of covering ten
fullback wing at a push. In the end, Andrew Newsta
because primarily James White has spent a lot of time
out with injury, and Johnny McNicholas season ending injury as well.
Andrew news Tops played every game primarily in the last
month or so as the starting first five eighth, and
(06:28):
while he has played a little bit of rugby there,
it doesn't seem sort of the natural fit to the
way he wants to go about his work. He is
playing behind a very good pack which has allowed him
to play on that front foot and shift the ball
out to a very experienced midfield and Dallas McLeod and
Branden enall. But just on your points with cam Miller,
I think you're absolutely right, and he's had to do
(06:50):
it the hard way, hasn't He hasn't all come at
once on this linear line through the age groups and
just bursting onto the scene. There's been some injury adversity,
there's been some dips in form, but he is playing
a very important role for the Otago side and not
overplaying his hand as you say. He's getting plenty of
fantastic service from this live a halfback that is Dylan Pledger,
(07:12):
but he's just doing his core role really well, guiding
the team around the park. And most importantly from a
points accumulation perspective, goodness me, he can kick the ball
off the tee well and truly the most efficient goalkicker
in the NPC this season, so that'll be one to
watch the Battle of the Tens. That just add some
(07:33):
information too that James White will play via the bench.
He's been in and out of this team with injury,
so whether we see James White later and the second
half of this final will be something to keep an
eye to.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Where do you think it will be decided to come
Saturday afternoon four o'clock kickoff? You look at the Ford
packs and maybe Canterbury has the edge there with with
no disrespect to Otago's pack, but just the experience that
Canterbury is able to call on. But for me, I
don't think there's much between these two sides. You look
at the man for man and you know there's some
international experience that the way of Canterbury Otago's got, you know,
(08:05):
like Sir Christian Leo Willi is there Viace camp To
who's already played Test rugby this year. So for me,
I think it's a real toss up game. Where are
you expecting it to be? Decided comes Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Oh, big time, big time toss up game. And I
think it can't be understated too. I know Marty Burke
was trying his utmost in the Tuesday media to say
the game wouldn't be determined by not having George Bell
and Sam Dowry available, But those two have been up
there with Canterbury's best, perhaps alongside Tom Christie in the
last month. The way George Bell has come back from
(08:38):
injuries thoroughly deserved his elevation back into the All Blacks
after an injury interrupted campaign at the beginning of the year,
the way he's carrying the ball, his accuracy at lineout time,
and Sam Dowry for a large part of the NPC season.
In fact, he might still sit at the top of
the Dwayne Monkly Metal standing, such was his ability in
and around both sides of the ball again at set Peace.
(09:02):
So my understanding is obviously Brody McAllister comes back in
who George Bell effectively unseen out of that All Blacks
in the year tour squad, and he'll have a point
to prove, no doubt, and it'll be a big opportunity
for Brodie McAllister before that All Blacks fifteen tour, Liam
Jack getting the start with no Sam Darry. It's cliched, Elliott,
but I think it does start up front and Canterbury's
(09:24):
ability to just have a stranglehold on an opposition team.
That's what they did to Hawk's Bay, That's what they
did the eventually an extra time to County's Medicale when
the going got really tough there. A lot of teams
have come down here to christ Church and been confident
of getting a result, and for whatever reason, Canterbury's ability
(09:46):
to just suffocate and scramble. What when it looks like
they're going to break, you know, they find another gear.
Otago the only team to hand them a loss this season,
So if anyone can do it, it'll be them. But
they'll have to be just as good as they were
last month when they won that Ranfhilly Shield match.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Absolutely look you touched on it before. With Brodie McAllister
expected to come back in but not All Blacks for Canterbury.
They won't be able to call on George Bell or
Sam Dowry for this match. They've been so integral to
them this season. It doesn't sound like Marty boot push
that hard to have them included. They were always the
(10:24):
All Blacks flying out on Friday out of Auckland and
for this end of year tour. Great to have both
those players call back in, but it was always going
to be unlikely that they'll be released to the final
and fly you know, a day or forty eight hours later,
especially given the injuries to the All Blacks locks, which
is where obviously Sam Darry slides in.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah, look, it's a little bit disappointing, I must say,
especially given you know, these are guys who have been
called back in. It's not like they were involved in
the in the Rugby Championship mix. However, I can completely
understand it as you o line there, Elliott, particularly in
the locking department. There's a real chance that that Sam
Dowry might have to provide lock and cover via the
(11:04):
bench against Ireland in Chicago next week behind Scott Barrett
and and Fabian Holland. You're not going to travel all
the way to Chicago without a third Hoker either, just
in case something happens to Cody Taylor or Samasoni Tokyaho.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So look, it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And as I say, Brady mcallis to two tests for
the All Blacks this year. Pretty handy replacement and I've
been very impressed to when Liam Jack has had his
opportunities starting for this Canterbury team. So you know, that's
why you have a squad of thirty odd plus because
you never know exactly when you might need to call
upon them.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Absolutely that game four o'clock on Saturday afternoon, as a
Neck out lined, he's got the call on gold Sport
and iHeartRadio. Speaking of squads, Super Rugby squads, Now, this
is a story that you had this morning across news talks.
He'd be around some changes to the Super Rugby contracting
system for twenty twenty six and beyond that, teams can
(12:00):
now contract twelve wider training group members. There are some
cavigates that they can't be called upon necessarily or thrust
straight into playing. But an interesting story and some you know,
a wee bit of an overhaul because pathways has been
quite a hot topic in recent times and they're making
some significant significant changes. As you outline your stories this morning.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, there was quite a lot to unpack out of
this one Elliott's and of course this is part of
a wider project or review that you might hear some
New Zealand Rugby people terms IMPAC that the men's Pathways
and Competitions Project, and yeah, as we reported on news Talks,
he'd be earlier this morning. A change in that wider
(12:43):
Training group contracting mix. So usually it's been in and
around five or six wider Training Group members. That number
is effectively going to double out to a maximum of twelve,
So there's no change, I should stress there's no change
to how many you can fully contract at a New
Zealand Super Rugby team that remains at thirty eight but
now effectively thirty eight and twelve you get to fifty
(13:06):
and there's a lot of numbers and a lot of
males to feed, so to speak. As you mentioned, there's
some caveats along the way. The wider Training Group members
can't be available for selection unless they're called upon as
an injury replacement to a fully contracted player. They have
to be at least twenty years old, so there is
some questions there too as to where some of our youngest,
(13:28):
brightest prospects under the age of twenty are going to land.
There's a greater alignment with the local provincial unions in
the sense that up to six of the twelve, say
for Crusaders for example, they'll get sort of first crack
at up to six Canterbury and or Tasman players before
(13:49):
then launching into a draft for those sort of final
spots of the wider training group. And on top of
this as well, again, if you're still with me, good
on you. But one of the interesting layers to this too,
with all this around, having all these extra players, you know,
how are they going to get some meaningful rugby when
(14:10):
they're not picked in the early rounds of Super Rugby
while we wait for the club rugby season to kick
in to gear sort of middle of April now. Mike Anthony,
who has spoke to for this story from New Zealand Rugby,
said they are going to have a more structured development competition,
a more structured second tier competition. It's sort of like
back to the future for teams like the Crusader Knights.
(14:31):
But the caveat there is they can't do everything, and
they're going to pull some resourcing away from the under
twenty Super tournament that has annually been held in Topoor
and that will no longer be on the schedule for
twenty twenty six quite a bit to unpack, some a
fear bit of moving in and around, but this is something
the five New Zealand franchises fed back to New Zealand Rugby.
(14:55):
By and large it wasn't it was termed as me
as not universal support, but they've got what more or
less they're after rather than parachuting and replacement players. I
think of guys like John I Foller, a couple of
three years ag Go, all of a sudden out of
absolutely nowhere, was called into a crusader's squad because of
several injuries in the front row. These guys are now
going to be fully immersed from pre season next month,
(15:18):
and should there be injuries, which we know there will be,
they can be called upon and there's a lot more
insurance policy I suppose you can say for the five
New Zealand teams right here in New Zone.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah, really interesting changes. So two hundred and fifty essentially
contracted players as part of this Malwana incidentally separate because
they don't fall under that New Zealand Rugby or the
five Foundation club framework. But by and large I think
these changes are the right move and you can see
some more respecting put on the pathways. We've seen players
you know, jump around different franchise even if they didn't
(15:52):
get game time. They're sort of popped up at training,
you know, for two or three franchises a season to
help out and boost numbers. Whether it's a specialist role
like a half back or something like that, there's often
been players that have jumped around franchises to fill in
that sort of role. So I think having it locked
in and you know, a clearer idea of these pathways
can only be a good thing for Super Rugby. I
(16:14):
do think there are still some major issues around what
the NPC pathway is versus the Super Rugby pathway. It
was interesting to see Harry Inch's comments sort of around
the you know, not his comment specifically, but there was
some intimation around the pathway system. So I don't think
it's entirely cleared up by this, But if you're a
young player, the path the Super Rugby is a lot
(16:35):
clearer maybe than it was, you know, before these changes
were made.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Yeah, and with these wider training group contracts that these
fringe players will sign, that there will be a PU
or an NPC contract that goes hand in hand with that. Yeah. Look,
I think on the whole too, I'm with you Elliott.
I think the fact there'll be full immersion it helps
all the super rugby teams from that perspective, getting players
(17:01):
involved intricately within a super rugby environment, it's going to
create extra playing the cross all positions. Part of the
push that Mike Anthony mentioned to me as part of
the story is that of the twelve should have all
those main positions covered within that twelve and it will
probably detract from players who don't get caught in that
(17:24):
first round of the of the fully fledged contracts from
looking out looking at overseas, sorry, looking at an email
r in the United States, looking at you know, that
shoot shield in Australia for example.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
So I think on the whole it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Well.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
There will be some people that question why they had
to go away from the Super Rugby Under twenty tournaments,
which has helped them pick a New Zealand under twenty
squad for the World Championships and the like. But that
Super Rugby Under twenty tournament hasn't been there, you know,
way back when you know you've picked out of out
(18:00):
of club form, you picked out of training camps. So yeah,
it'll be it'll be interesting to see how it works
in practice. And I think what we're going to see
as a fan and of members of the media covering rugby,
Elliott is we're going to start to see a little
bit more player movement and just understanding the player depth
(18:21):
in each of these five new Zealand rugby teams. I've
already seen in the last couple of weeks. Eli Oden
Ryan for example, has signed a contract where it's wider
training group for the Blues for twenty six into a
full contract for twenty seven. Lucas Casey for example, out
of Otago we were talking about before, he's got a
wider training group deal with the Highlanders. He's part of
(18:42):
their local six for twenty twenty six. So yeah, we're
going to start seeing because usually these full contracts are
so on up so far in advance, because you know
when basically twelve months in advance before players come off contract.
But we are going to see, yeah, a little bit
more movement, which I think.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Is good for the game. I think it is good
for the game. I've been advocate for maybe having protected
players like they used to back in the old days.
Now with that would still work in twenty twenty five,
twenty six, So I don't know, but protecting a certain
number of players, then you can pick a certain number
out of the draft. But there's a bit of a
balance here in terms of that and giving opportunities to
players that might put their hands up in the NPC
(19:20):
as well, that come out of nowhere, really have been
under the radar or on the radar, and then have
a booming NPC season. There is going to be room
for that for players to be drafted in. Now. Another
story that you had today, Oli Mathis, who's been the
talk of the NPC and New Zealand rugby for a
couple of seasons. Now hasn't hit played Super rugby, but
this hybrid player who can play flanker and wing, you've
(19:43):
got some news around where he might be going for
twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah. Well it was sort of a byproduct of this
discussion around the wider training group contracts that got some
information that the Crusaders have secured the services of Oli Mathis.
There's been a real tug of war between the Crusaders
and the Chiefs. Of course, oly Mathis plays as provincial
rugby for Wakato. He hasn't played Super Raby, as he
(20:10):
mentioned now he's been in the All Black sevens environment,
but certainly one of the country's top prospects and as
you say, that ability to be equally adept at both
flanker and wing a real prospect indeed. But yeah, it
is my understanding he spent some time down here during
the Crusaders Super Ragby campaign that was earlier in the
year as an injury replacement or as injury training cover
(20:31):
at the time for Ethan Blackadder, and it is yet
my understanding. We're reporting today that Oli Mathis will be
one of those wider training group members for the Crusaders
in twenty twenty six, so that doesn't necessarily mean he
will play for the Crusaders next year. However, for those
who are unaware haven't been following the NBC as closely
(20:53):
on the Crusader's books, Cullen Grace, Corey Callow and Ethan
Blackadder up and Tasman, all of whom have sat out
almost all of the NPC with season ending injuries, and
all of them play in the loose forward position. So
there is a likelihood of a possibility that Oli Mathis
could play some early rounds of of Super Rugby next
year in a Crusaders jersey. And he's just the latest
(21:13):
and a long line of Hamilton Boys alumni that all
of a sudden have found found homes here in Crusaders country.
Noah Hothem, Taima, Taylor Cahill. It's a yeah, it's been interesting.
I suppose that's just the professional rugby way these days,
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Indeed, that's an interesting point. If let's say, for example,
Oli Mathis does play those opening rounds of the NBC
and plays the house down and then the fit again
flankers come back into the reckoning. Does he didn't have
to be dropped? Or do you go with the hot hand?
Like it's going to be interesting test of the system
as to whether they're allowed to keep playing this wider
training group player if he's you know, shooting the lights
(21:49):
out for four or five games in a row and
you know in irrepressible form, surely coaches aren't going to
drop the informed player for a fit again player that's
coming back.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, it is going to be one to watch, as
I say, one, you know, like like change, there's gonna
be probably some some some teasing issues, and I do
wonder in terms of keeping the integrity of what's been
outlaid as all the sort of rules and stipulations that
there isn't going to be any sort of you know,
hypothetical situations.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
But he isn't. He's still quite injured, but actually he's not.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
So we'll keep playing, as you say, with the hot
hand of the guy on the wider training group contract.
But it's certainly New Zealand Rugby's intention for the thirty
eight players from each of the five New Zealand franchises
who are fully contracted to be first cabs off the rank.
But I think, yeah, I think we might see maybe
one or two scenarios like that play out next year,
(22:44):
particularly as we know with you know, head injuries one
week out, does that mean you can elevate a playoff
that just one week? Does it need to be a
bit more on the medium to long term. There's still
a little bit to be worked through, But yeah, we
want to follow next year for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
It will be indeed in Super Rugby squads out November,
the Sex Quick Break here on rugbyric come back and
took the greatest rivalry after this.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Every trive try and sixty second every tackle to tackle, tackles,
get up again, I take him.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Before at times Rugby Direct how it buddies talks.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
You're back with Rugby Direct and Forkliff Solutions. Of course,
our good friends. They're lifting you and your business to
a higher level. Rugby's greatest rivalry finally confirmed last week, Nick,
this has been the offering for well, I think about
two and a half years since it was first reported.
It's been pretty much an open secret that it's going
(23:49):
to be happening. There was a fair bit of detail
to hammer out, not least with the likes of the
rest of the SANS unions, but for tour matches, for
tests one outside of South Africa. I was going to
ask you for your initial reaction, but you probably had
a couple of years to stew over it. So what's
your your thoughts on on how this has all played
out and you know, having a tour return to the
(24:11):
international schedule.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah. Look, on principle, I'm a huge fan and I
suppose I'm revealing my age here, but I was two
years old when the All Blacks toured South Africa nineteen
ninety six. So these are memories I've really only seen
on YouTube and the likes since. But you know, you
hear from your Shawn Fitzpatrick's and you're justin Marshall's about
(24:34):
how high they hold that successful tour, and you can't
help but be excited about the prospect of the All
Blacks potentially being able to do something similar thirty years on.
I can't help but feel, just as a lot of
people have sort of mentioned, just as were started to
get into a real position of competitiveness with the Rugby Championship,
(24:57):
that it is unfortunate timing, if anything, that we're going
to park the Rugby Championship for a year. It just
felt like there was some a real groundswell of momentum
each and every weekend you'd go in and you wouldn't
know who would beat who. However, I think, yeah, as
I say, i'd touch on my first point and that
getting the tours back and the spring Box are our
(25:19):
greatest rival. I'm very excited about it and midweek games
and the like. I remember Scott Robinson was in town
here a couple of weeks ago talking about the All
Blacks End of Year tour squad that had just named
and the All Blacks fifteen squad, he mentioned to the
assembled media, then he'd look to take about forty players.
So we're going to rarely see where Scott Robinson is
(25:40):
at too in the third year of the World Cup cycle,
and what better test than to put yourself up against
the double world champions.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I think it ends up with the All Blacks
having seventeen games next year when you incorporate those tour
games as well. So it's a big workload, but I
think it is. It's a big test a year out
from the World Cup, but it's going to put through
the ringer. They're going to have to test their depth
chart out a little bit. And look, I think it's
a real win for Tea strugby. I would have loved
to see Australia tour Argentina Oral vice versa. At the
(26:11):
same time, it may not have the same rivalry necessarily
those two teams, but if we can bring back tours,
and I remember the nine ninety six tour quite clearly,
you know, and how important that was and it was
seen as the last chance before professional rugby really took
hold in the Try Nations, you know, the last chance
to actually win a series on South African selt soil.
(26:32):
Now thirty years later, you know a new generation of
players is getting that opportunity. The Rugby Championship initially wasn't
going to be in for twenty twenty eight. They were
looking at other options, maybe around the All Blacks touring
Australia for three tests and also during Argentina for three
Tests as well. Then because of this year's Rugby Championship,
(26:55):
they've walked that back a little bit and implemented the
Rugby Championship again. So we'll have a full Rugby Championship
twenty seven to twenty eight and twenty nine, so I
think there's a nice balance there, and then twenty thirty
South Africa come to New Zealand and play those matches here.
So look, I think the Rugby Championship have got a
little bit style and this year is was really exciting,
really good. But if you can have it three years
(27:16):
out of four and then have something different in that
fourth year, I think you've got a pretty good balance
by and larger across the international rugby calendar.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
So remind me what are the Wallabies and the Permas
doing next year? They're going to welcome some Northern Hemisphere opposition.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Well, I think they're going to play each other in
a couple of tests. I think the Japan's going to
go to Australia as well. But basically, if you're the
All Blacks, that the year looks a bit like this.
So you have those three Nations Cup games or Nations
Championship games in July, and it's going to be France, Ireland, Italy.
(27:51):
My understanding that they'll come in July and play in
New Zealand, so no more three year tours at least
in those years, and then there'll be a couple of
weeks the All Blacks will go up to South Africa
for that six seven week tour, a couple of weeks
break after that, they'll play a Bledislow home away in
early October, and then a couple more weeks break and
(28:11):
then the quote unquote interview two. It's really the second
part of the Nation's Championship where they'll play those other
six nation sides and then a finals weekend in London.
So that's how you arrive at your seventeen games to
the Lakes next year.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
And you mentioned that we'd stale there, Elliott, and I
think you know you hear some players talk about not
necessarily it being monotonous, but that's sort of you know that,
you know the July series is coming. You know exactly
what a rugby championship is. By now, with the greatest respect,
you know what an.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
End of year tour is.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I think variety for the player is going to help
perhaps from a retention standpoint as opposed to just all
our contracting peraps being centered around that four year cycle
of a World Cup. And I think for the fan too, yeah,
As I say, like it's a little bit of a
just unfortunate timing with how good the rugby Championship was
(29:02):
this year, But I think something different on the program
can only be of benefit to the game at the
moment when you know there are some underlying issues elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, And I think we'll get to the point very soon.
And I'm sure maybe the next high profile player that
signed with New Zealand Rugby will be signed through until
twenty thirty because Damian McKenzie last year signed through or
earlier this year signed through to twenty twenty nine. That
encompasses the Lions Tour. So if you're a player that's
a pois to resign and I think most of, if
not all, the All Blacks maybe but Finlay Christia have
(29:35):
resigned for next year at least anyway, But those players
ending twenty twenty six will now have you know that
South African tour next year, a World Cup in twenty seven,
to look at a Lions tour in twenty nine, and
if they're still young enough and fit enough twenty thirty
when South Africa come here for that tour as well,
could well be on the cards. So you're presenting a
pretty compelling I think, four or five years worth of
(29:57):
rugby fixtures to not going to get that in the
three sixty No, No, I mean, are three sixty has
other benefits? Of course, you know you can play for
or whatever the do buy dolphins exactly, the do buy dolphins.
You know it's got other benefits, but you can't get
that in our three sixty three. A very good point.
The other point before we wrap up, and Gregor Paul's
(30:18):
written about this in the Herald Today and opinion piece,
is that South Africa is pushing for the Rugby Championship
to be moved to February March, and Australia's thought to
be keen relatively keen as well. Gives them a bit
of clear ear before the AFL and NRL seasons get
into full swinging. I think Argentina would probably go along
(30:39):
with it, till I'm not entirely sure of their position.
New Zealand Rugby has been reported as the holdout. I'll
put it to Mark Robinson last week when I spoke
to him, and they're not entirely against the idea, but
it'd be a fundamental reshaping of the calendar as we
know in New Zealand rugby. If you were to start
or play, you know, six NA Rugby Championship in that
same window as the Six Nations across February and March,
(31:00):
you'd have to change Super Rugby where you already played
Super Rugby early and started in January. I don't know,
but it's I can see why it's appealing to South
Africa given some of their players come around the globe.
I'm not entirely sold on it though. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
There looks like a fair bit of work that would
have to go into it.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I'm even just thinking out loud here from a broadcast standpoint,
what does that mean for the will almost be a
vacuum of volume when we're usually right in the middle
of rugby, and from a content perspective, look, I can
see the merits behind it, and I'm sure from a
I know we're getting a fancy new stadium opening in
(31:41):
April next year, Elliot, but going along to rugby and
the winter can be a bit of a struggle for
the punters. You know, those early rounds of Super Rugby
are pretty well supported. So if all of a sudden
that was international rugby in February or March here in
New Zealand, I think that would still be very well supported.
But as you say, it would be quite a structural
upheaval from what we've known for the last two plus decades.
(32:04):
So yeah, there's a lot of changing, isn't there. And
I mean you said that you talk to Mark Robinson's
going to have a new New Zealand Rugby CEO probably
to make that decision.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
You watch the space on that front, and I think
watch the space on yeah, the movement as well. I
think there'll be more discussions when the Sans Unions meets
at World Rugby in November as well, so not too
far away and might be a bit more movement on
that front too. So we will watch the space. But Nick,
look forward to your commentary on Saturday afternoon Canterbury, O
target should be a cracker. As I said, gold Sport
(32:36):
and iHeartRadio have a great call and enjoy the occasion.
I was going to say it's your last dance at
a Pier Project stadium, but as we know, not quite.
The Crusaders are back for more next year.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
They can't help themselves. They love the place. It's been
great to jump on.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
That is Rugby directful another week. We'll be back late
next week, sole bit of a break, but myself and
Lean once we get to Chicago, will sit down, once
the team's a name for the All Blanks and Island game,
will sit down and pod then. So probably in your
feed sometime Friday next week. Well order to your company then,
Thanks to Garry Share as well for producing this podcast,
(33:11):
which has been powered as always by fooklib Solutions, lifting
you and your business to a higher level.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
For more from News Talks ed B listen live on
air or online and keep our shows with you wherever
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